the answer is NO, you will not see the old cars on a WRC event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui J.
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the answer is NO, you will not see the old cars on a WRC event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui J.
Actually, I think you're wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I believe the FIA is considering a second tier 'cup' for the old cars...
with the current rules they will not be on a WRC stage...Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
IF we start imagining things and taking into account considerations even group B cars could take part in 2017.
And people how many times do i have to repeat this ? I am never wrong... the reality you just live in is just not good enough.
Yes you can, all 1.6T WRC are eligible 2017, for points also, just like you can points now with WRC2/R5 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui J.
Yeah, banning the old cars only makes sense when the new ones have their speeds cut. In this case, they're making them quicker so makes perfect sense to allow them in, just as R5 cars caused RRCs to die, but R4s are still eligible.
Drivers of 2017 World Rally Cars must be approved by FIA
The use of 2017's faster-than-ever World Rally Cars will be restricted to drivers the FIA feels are competent enough to compete in them.
There has been concern in the service park about the increased speed from the new cars, prompting calls from the current top-line drivers to restrict access.
Some drivers mooted the potential for a Formula 1-style superlicence for rallying - but the FIA's rally director Jarmo Mahonen says he does not want go down that route.
Instead he will implement strict controls on the use of cars by any driver lacking in experience.
"What about guys like Bryan Bouffier?" Mahonen said.
"These guys do one or two rallies per year. [Robert] Kubica is another one.
"We don't want to have a rule where we are always having to bring a waiver, so I would rather not go with the superlicence.
"We have to control these cars, but I would rather do it a softer way than the superlicence.
"Those cars will only be used by drivers entered by a manufacturer and approved by us. This gives us control."
Manufacturers will have to supply the FIA with driver details, with the governing body then giving a final decision on whether or not they can be entered for WRC rounds.
Mahonen said the FIA would turn down any driver who was "putting his £1million on the table to drive the 2017 car".
"Today, you can put down the money and drive the car and we have no control over that," he added.
"We will look at the merits of each driver who applies.
"Do we want the so-called gentleman drivers coming with these cars? No, we don't.
"And nor do we want the 18-year-old drivers coming and doing their first world championship round in one of these either."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report...medium=twitter
I trust Julien Maurin and Sam Moffat not to bin a WRC car much more than I would Kubica, but I take their point; a minimum amount of R5 experience would be fair.
So, with that "aproval" maybe is time to bring back 3 cars team, best 2 to points without nomeation, rule back :)
I saw that and I think it is bullshit. Msport literally lives on this kind of customer coming in and coughing up his or her 500 000£ to drive. Would that mean that Msport would have to register as a manufacturer to compete?Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in equal machinery as the manufacturers... this is beyond stupid :(
According to http://www.rallye-magazin.de/wm/nach...llen-wrc-2017/ a "Cup for the old generation cars" for privatiers etc. is in discussion for 2017. Quite sure we will still see some 2016 cars at the beginning of 2017 season.
I doubt M-Sport has had a customer for a WRC car in the last 3 years that the FIA would say 'no' to being able to drive one.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
I can't think of any.
They tend not to get many customers that don't have a substantial history of top rallying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
What?
Are you serious?
What's that Merikuhn guy with the stupid baseball hat
Ben Klock...or something like that...He'd done ZERO top stuff against a few guys with garage built cars....essentially nothing and he plopped down 4-5 million--Sterling on the table- and PRESTO!
Press releases flooded every blog, site/forum/
"Factory Driver!"
He flipped on 1st second or maaaybe 3rd stage for several YEARS..
And there's been piles of others...just don't recall names cause they were just rich guys sons. Did nothing and disappeared. (leaving the money behind, of course)
Honestly, I see nothing stupid on it. The speed increase will make ’17 cars more demanding to drive. Limiting their access to top WRC drivers it’s a way to avoid safety risks.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
It also helps manus to keep developing their costumer programs through current R5’s, which already are the main category in national and international rally series.
Besides, even MSport WRC's sales are a fraction from what they get with R5's and the days when it was reasonable for a top privateer to run in an equal machine as manus are long gone.
Yepp, that is why it is a rally --a collection point, a gathering, and not a mere made for TV "reality show" or World Wrestling Federation choreographed "race"....Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
seems many have forgotten that simple basic thing which historically has allowed some sort of fan or viewer "identification" with what he's watching rather than being as "race-fans" are supposed to be, mere passive consumers....
It takes a lot of gall for teams and people and media to claim "Hacki Hälarna is the best-est driver ever!!! and beat 199 other ..."
When if fact he's given a car with a bigger turbo, bigger restrictor, more aero, more suspension travel on top of all the advantages that comes when driving for a fabriks team...
They seems to forget that the downhill spiral in rally began with the allowance of cars bearing almost no connection but a badge and maybe a grille and headlights with the cars sold by the MFG.
In other words when nerds took over and tried to make rally over into a cash cow on the template of circuit racing...
Logically guys what's next to insure that only one of 5-6 guys "gets to win".....
Would it be logic to begin adding ballast to all the other cars so they are all 100kg heavier? 200kg?
Make a rule they must leave a big shop rag in the intake?
Rallying has always been about the fact that any old nut can come and compete in more or less kinda sorta equal machinery as the manufacturers...even if we all know the manufacturers stuff is new, fresh, tip top...
I don't see any safety implication of such a system and experience has never made anyone less crash prone than others (do remember that latvala is in VW, the best team we currently have). That just makes it an elite club for "the initiated" instead. Rally has an appeal, in my view, in that anyone can turn up and do it. If I won the lottery tomorrow I could buy a WRC car, turn up in portugal and make a complete fool out of myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
That gives me a sense of connection with the sport and changing this will break this connection.
I hadn't really thought about it but I can't see these new cars getting into truly private hands for 18 months at least. Any additional entries before then would be tied to manufacturers anyway.
But in practice who would this rule really effect? They would need to draw up some kind of criteria. I think it's maybe in reference to guys like the Eurolamp Mini drivers. Maybe Solowow? Older guys like that. But then you're at risk of being ageist if they have more experience than guys like Camilli. So then you'd need to factor in speed, previous results etc. Either way I think they've created a problem here before there actually was one.
Having that 2017 cup for the older cars would be perfect as it gives those drivers and cars somewhere to compete. It would also really benefit younger drivers.
The whole safety thing is one big fuss around the sport. In fact I think changing to B segment 1.6t from C segment 2t was imposing more risk to crash at high speeds as smaller cars are naturally more unstable in high speed turning. Now they seem to just correct such instability.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
I don't have a good feeling about the rule just like about the whole 2017 technical rules. I really don't see how this F1 style rules could be good for rallying.
Never did I say the quality of the drivers wasn't up to scratch, all I said was, none of those guys would ever get knocked back for a 2017 car from the FIA.Quote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
Block, Kuipers, Benito, Van Merk etc etc all would get a green light to drive a 2017 car. They have enough history to be sure they're not going to throw it at spectators chasing unfounded glory.
The FIA would be concerned about the DMACK Fiesta R2 style young guy stepping straight in to one of these cars.
You mean like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GW8JUX25fQQuote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
https://youtube.com/watch?v=E42cyz-zG4c
I guess by your logic tbis guy shouldn't be allowed a car too...
If it is implemented correctly and not like the F1 super licence it is going to be a good thing. But when a midget and that ugly man are in charge of the FIA and rallying i doubt it will.
My logic? I just posted a question. And to be honest, I was expecting to see some sort of video of Latvala in action.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
It will never be safe no matter what cars they are driving. As long as the victory is at stake, they'll go for it and everything can happen. And as you pointed out, even the best make mistakes ...
wilson wil sell his cars to everyone that gives him the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi
Is that wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
no. imo selling cars to customers should be mandatory for all manufacturers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
No, no, no. Like this!Quote:
Originally Posted by Franky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-PGCmizGgw
Much better-er..:eek:
jimkana test-styleQuote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
In Engleski wir sagen "Pratice makes Perfect"Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
3 years of that on SS1 or SS2 and he learned how to flip sehr gut!
und Sie können sagen, - wunderbarQuote:
Originally Posted by janvanvurpa
What would be wrong with supplying the 2017 cars with the current 2016 restrictors? Manufacturers would have an outlet to sell their cars to national competitors and to be fair the cars would be no faster than they are now just with active diffs, it might even make them safer for less experienced drivers.
Are You saying that a car with active center diff is not faster than a car without center diff at all?
I can't see how R5 experience would qualify you to drive the new WRC cars, as surely there should be a considerable gap in performance, particularly power and aero. So surely this is a flawed idea, they can't get experience in the car as they aren't allowed to drive it, and there isn't anything else that is close to it. So unless they say a current (2016) generation car is the stepping stone, I can't see how it can work?
But then look at Lorenzo, finished events when in an R5. Went to WRC car and seems to have lost the plot?
In my limited experience with production style active centre diff (ie Subaru DCCD with an aftermarket controller programmed with custom diff maps), compared to regular plate diffs, a plate diff is easier/more predictable to get used to for a newbie (ie me).Quote:
Originally Posted by ToughMac
Current WRC cars don't have center diff at all. The difference of having an active one and none at all is really big. Than we have the new aero package, wider track, better brake cooling and many other small things which must make the 2017 faster even with same restrictor. Thinking only about the power like ToughMac did is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
quite the opposite imho. Mitsubishi evo has active center and rear diffs about 16 years back. For the average driver(and not only) active production diffs,are a big help to the driver.Thats why subaru decided to follow Mitsubishi after some years delay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Munkvy
I ve changed mabe more than 20-30 maps at my evo center active diff,and the difference is impressive.But didnt find the last excellent result, just uploading some custom maps.It requires some more try and error with your programmer to fix it for your car and drive.
Can you explain this to me? I don't understand how a four-wheel-drive drivetrain can function 'without a centre diff'. To me a centre diff is what apportions torque between the front and rear axles...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
As far as I know the current WRC cars have front and rear axles effectively locked to rotate together (like a Hilux or similar when in 4wd) - a centre diff would let the front and rear rotate at different speeds (hence the word 'differential').Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack4688`
If you've ever tried to take a tight turn with a locked centre diff or no centre diff 4wd you'll understand why that setup generally results in more sliding from a rally car.
Thanks, makes more sense now.
So essentially that rearward shaft is just taking 50% of the torque from the front final drive back to the rear diff without anything fancy going on inside?
http://www.brosnan-racing.com/wp-con...LY-Gearbox.jpg
Would the step between active diff and none at all be something like a Torsen or a viscous coupling then? i.e. not interfered with electronically (not in the same way a Haldex works, that would be a REactive wait-until-you're-already-understeering system), purely a mechanically PROactive system?