Rally 3 class

[Andre Oliveira]

Lets wait. Until now Rally3 was not faster than Rally4 (but still more expensive). We will see what will happen with bigger restrictor/more power (in terms of speed, but also in terms of running costs and reliability).

Show a good example of what you said. Of course a great driver in Rally4 do it better than one average in Rally3. Same with Rally2/WRC. See Mikkelsen vs Serderidis for example. The little rallies we saw of Rally3… it is faster than Rally4 (and some Rally2).

[br21]

On relatively clean tarmac Rally4 was faster than Rally3, that's why they increased restrictor size for 4wd one

[Andre Oliveira]

4 Rally3 allready on entries of Arctic Rally.

[Sulland]

And I think we will see more Rally3 cars in Finland.
Printsport looks to have bought at least 2 more cars in addition to the one they had. But some could also be some missing registration on the Rally3`s in Finland.

Will be cool to see the differences in time btw Rally2, 3 and 4 on a winterrally!
If the Rally3`s do well, it might tip drivers sitting on the fence, into a Rally3 car both in Sweden and Norway.

[AnttiL]

Finland doesn't have an overall championship, instead there's five sub-championships where SM3 is only for Rally3 cars so I think the local ASN has expected lots of these cars when they have given them their own championship. N5, Rally2Kit and Group N cars will form SM2, but it will be interesting to see how the Rally3 cars compete against them. In my opinion they could have been in the same class as well. Maybe it's a way of motivating young drivers to buy a Rally3 car instead of a Mitsubishi?

[Sulland]

Smart of the finns, giving the new class a cup to fight for.

Up here we have adopted a version of the swedish system.
4 classes that will give a Norwegian Champion each.
International 2wd and 4wd, for cars still holding a FIA homologation.
Narional 2wd and 4wd for cars that no longer hold a FIA homologation.

So for Rally3 here, they have their own class, class 3. But they have to fight Rally2 on the cups and medals.
We used to have more classes that gave you a championship in the historybooks. But they had to simplify for TV, so they ended up with 4.

[pantealex]

4 Rally3 allready on entries of Arctic Rally.

+ 1 Estonian driver in Class14, I don't know why he didn't enter to SM3 like other 4.

so totally 5 Rally3 cars to Arctic.

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe cause he is a newcomer?

[AnttiL]

Or maybe cheaper entry fee for not driving for championship points?

[Sulland]

Entrylist
https://akk.autourheilu.fi/Public/Kiti/Competition/CompetitionEnrollListPlain.aspx?id=15159

[M5]

Still no development from Toyota or Renault?

[dupanton]

Not publically no. But it will be soon for 1 new manufacturer

[Sulland]

Not publically no. But it will be soon for 1 new manufacturer

Good, is that manu one of the omes mentioned in the post by m5?

[M5]

Still no development from Toyota or Renault?

I expect Renault

[Sulland]

Rally3 Fiestas are doing very well in Arctic rally! 11th, 12 and 13th after day1.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/73442-arctic-lapland-rally-2022/

[Sulland]

This More or less confirming that both Renault and Toyota are working on Rally3 projects, also more manufacturers according to boss of Renault Sport.

https://www.rallyeslalom.com/renault-guarda-al-wrc3-e-pensa-alla-clio-rally3/?fbclid=IwAR0s5VA5Lz-TM59o2jHwOaguq7O_Ka2HeJ3xdZqlmXsNwmqSiZquK-irh9A

So if we are lucky we might see 3 different cars in ERC and WRC, collecting data for 2023.

[PLuto]

Three manufacturers were confirmed from beginning, other were thinking about it...

[Jarek Z]

Ford Fiesta Rally3 for Hubert Laskowski. He is only 16 years old, but already has experience with Peugeot 208 R2 and Peugeot 208 Rally4. Because he is so young he will probably only drive in Baltic countries, where it is allowed to compete in rallying at such age.

Photo:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/YEQPo3qY/s1200/hubert-laskowski-michal-kusnie.webp

Source:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rajdy/news/laskowski-w-fiescie-rally3/7878182/

[Sulland]

My spanish is not very good, but I am guessing that someone says Clio Rally3 to be homologated 1 march 23;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FLIw6zjWUAEK5Pk?format=jpg&name=large

Who is Markel?

[Jarek Z]

Who is Markel?

Quick research shows that Markel De Zabaleta works at Dacia and Renault Espana:
https://es.linkedin.com/in/markel-de-zabaleta-9760319a

and he is also an occasional rally driver?
https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/136260-markel-de-zabaleta/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/renault-reveals-rally3-launch-timeline/

[Sulland]

Did not check linkedin, and there it shows he is Motorsport manager Renault group, Iberia.
So hopefully he knows.

They should try for 1 jan, so buyers could get a car from the start of the season.

So who is next in line? Toyota have given signals they will go Rally2 before Rally3, so are there others that will get in before Toyota?
Stellantis, Skoda or Proton maybe?

[wyler]

Did not check linkedin, and there it shows he is Motorsport manager Renault group, Iberia.
So hopefully he knows.

They should try for 1 jan, so buyers could get a car from the start of the season.

So who is next in line? Toyota have given signals they will go Rally2 before Rally3, so are there others that will get in before Toyota?
Stellantis, Skoda or Proton maybe?

opposite, Toyota said will go with rally3 first waiting for mild hybrid decision for rally2

[Sulland]

“To be ready as soon as possible is a big challenge,” Benoît Nogier, Renault Sport’s customer racing director, told DirtFish.
“We are discovering a bit this new category. It will be the first time for Renault to have a four-wheel-drive car. We are working hard and we should have the first test in a few weeks.”

So, they will start testing soon. Hopefully will we get some films here, from a french "spy" !:p

Latvala said first that they would go 3 then 2. But I feel I remember that he swapped to getting rally2 finished first, but I might have had a bad dream !
So if they go Rally3 first, will you guess they homologate before or after Renault?

But if Ford will be alone for 1 year+, they might sell 100 Rally3 before anyone else enter the market.

[wyler]

“To be ready as soon as possible is a big challenge,” Benoît Nogier, Renault Sport’s customer racing director, told DirtFish.
“We are discovering a bit this new category. It will be the first time for Renault to have a four-wheel-drive car. We are working hard and we should have the first test in a few weeks.”

So, they will start testing soon. Hopefully will we get some films here, from a french "spy" !:p

Latvala said first that they would go 3 then 2. But I feel I remember that he swapped to getting rally2 finished first, but I might have had a bad dream !
So if they go Rally3 first, will you guess they homologate before or after Renault?

But if Ford will be alone for 1 year+, they might sell 100 Rally3 before anyone else enter the market.




not earlier than mid 23 for toyota.

[Sulland]

When was the JWRC wintertest in Norway taking place?
This week or next week?

[Jarek Z]

Ford Fiesta Rally3 for Hubert Laskowski. He is only 16 years old, but already has experience with Peugeot 208 R2 and Peugeot 208 Rally4. Because he is so young he will probably only drive in Baltic countries, where it is allowed to compete in rallying at such age.

Photo:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/YEQPo3qY/s1200/hubert-laskowski-michal-kusnie.webp

Source:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rajdy/news/laskowski-w-fiescie-rally3/7878182/

... and the debut rally was not bad at all! Laskowski was 14th overall in last weekend's Rally Sarma in Latvia. He was best among all (2) Rally3 cars, nearly 1 minute quicker than Dmitry Feofanov. Not bad for a 16-year old kid.
The overall winner was Teemu Asunma from Finland.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/75293-rallijs-sarma-2022/

Photos:
http://janisasaris.com/portfolio/rallijs-sarma-2022-latvija-gulbene

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7OiCp_jJuY

[Sulland]

Three manufacturers were confirmed from beginning, other were thinking about it...

We know the 3 confirmed, who else were thinking about entering Rally3?
Are they still thinking?

[wyler]

We know the 3 confirmed, who else were thinking about entering Rally3?
Are they still thinking?

opel the most quoted

[AnttiL]

On the first day of Rally Sweden, the Rally3 cars were around 3 s/km slower than fastest Rally1 car.

[Sulland]

So the results from Sweden show that rally3 had aprox 1,6 sec/km up to the best rally2 cars.

If we had gotten a top notch driver, it would have dropped 0,5 sec/km more i guess. That is not bad for a pretty new car!
Many of the rally2 drivers would have had almost equal amount of fun for less than half the price in a Rally3 car!

[Gordini]

Did Toyota start project?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-begins-work-on-yaris-rally3-car/
Renault testing yet?

[AnttiL]

Did Toyota start project?
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-begins-work-on-yaris-rally3-car/
?

Some rumors implied Toyota would after all work on Rally2 first

[Sulland]

60 Fiestas are produced. Impressed by the speed of the Polish arm!
I think more and more potential buyers have been impressed with the speed, more or less out of the box.

Would be cool to see Loeb in a Rally3 on gravel, to get a real benchmark!

[Jarek Z]

60 Fiestas are produced. Impressed by the speed of the Polish arm!

Wow! 60 looks great! I wonder who buys all of them?

[Sal yet again]

Not aware of a single one in UK or Irish rallying circles and this is M Sport's "home" market.

[Jarek Z]

Here in Poland we only have 3 or 4 competing on a regular basis.

[Andre Oliveira]

Wow! 60 looks great! I wonder who buys all of them?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars-owners/152-ford-fiesta-rally3/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not aware of a single one in UK or Irish rallying circles and this is M Sport's "home" market.

This is the problem here where many that can afford to rally (mostly older guys) want a 'competitive car' so prefer a used R5, or even an old WRC car, rather than buy a Rally3.

[Sulland]

The 50 active cars in 14 months after introduction, is the same number as for the R5 14 months after into.

That model sold close to 300!


Still no news from Renault Sport on testing on their contender. Hopefully soon!

[Kenneth]

The 50 active cars in 14 months after introduction, is the same number as for the R5 14 months after into.


That imo extremely impressive. Meanwhile R5 was very anticipated, there were a doubt about Ra3.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Creighton to give Rally3 Fiesta its Irish debut in West Cork:

https://rallyinsight.com/2022/03/10/creighton-to-give-rally3-fiesta-its-irish-debut-in-west-cork/

[Sulland]

Nice sprint on last stages!
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/erc3

What happened to Feofanov in the last stages, he suddenly lost a lot of time?

[wyler]

Nice sprint on last stages!
https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/erc3

What happened to Feofanov in the last stages, he suddenly lost a lot of time?

it's written a spin made him lose the top spot...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great video of the Fiesta Rally3 in action !

https://twitter.com/eWRCresults/status/1505819841873203204?s=20&t=IVHtdL-Vez5X5GhJpL37vA

[Jarek Z]

Great video of the Fiesta Rally3 in action !

https://twitter.com/eWRCresults/status/1505819841873203204?s=20&t=IVHtdL-Vez5X5GhJpL37vA

Spectacular! Is he on gravel setup or sth?

[Jarek Z]

Creighton to give Rally3 Fiesta its Irish debut in West Cork:

https://rallyinsight.com/2022/03/10/creighton-to-give-rally3-fiesta-its-irish-debut-in-west-cork/

Final result - 9th overall, behind Ford Escort Mk2 and Darrian T90:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/74469-clonakilty-park-hotel-west-cork-rally-2022/

Photo:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/683805/?entry=3306267

[wyler]

Spectacular! Is he on gravel setup or sth?

yep. it was a gravel rally in italy

[Fast Eddie WRC]

When the car was running trouble-free there were some great times by Jon Armstrong on Rally Azores. :cool:

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/73622-azores-rallye-2022/3306892/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO2m0WdWUAcr7kO?format=jpg&name=large

[ictus]

16yo Hubert Laskowski just won Croatia River Rally in a Rally3 Fiesta
2261

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seventh overall on Leg 2 of Azores Rally !!!

Jon Armstrong8 and Brian Hoy beat over half of the Rally2 field in their Fiesta Rally3 today. A remarkable achievement for both the crew and the car.

[Sulland]

Seems like more drivers and team have gotten to know the cars, and starts to get the best out of settings and ways to drive them. We are getting closer to true potential.

Still I would like to see a top notch rally2 or rally1 driver, used to much more speed, to give Rally3 a go!

[Jarek Z]

16yo Hubert Laskowski just won Croatia River Rally in a Rally3 Fiesta
2261

Yes. Entry list was not very exciting, but it's still a great success of this 16-year-old driver and his Ford Fiesta Rally3. Congratulations!

Final results of Quattro River Rally 2022:

1. Laskowski/Kuśnierz (Polska, Ford Fiesta Rally3) 59:48,6
2. Černý/Jindra jun. (Czechy, Ford Fiesta Rally3) +3,6s
3. Pulić/Kovačić (Chorwacja, Škoda Fabia Rally2) +49,8s
4. Šebalj/Stublić (Chorwacja, Toyota GR Yaris) +1:36,9
5. Peljhan/Čar (Słowenia, Volkswagen Polo RN4) +2:45,4
6. Kramer jun./Kvick (Austria, Peugeot 208 Rally4) +3:15,3
7. Lončarič/Pinky (Chorwacja, Subaru Impreza STi N12) +3:24,8
8. Kramer/Drapela (Austria, Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 6.5) +4:27,5
9. Kajetanowicz/Szczepaniak (Polska, Škoda Fabia Rally2 evo) +4:31,1
10. Medved/Šavelj (Słowenia, Ford Fiesta Rally4) +4:43,2

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting to see Jan Černy also in a Fiesta Rally3 and impressive for Laskowski to beat him !

[Gordini]

Still no clio rally3 testing. Why?

[rp]

Still no clio rally3 testing. Why?

Maybe it´s not yet ready.

[dupanton]

As far as I know, they planned to start testing in April.

[Jarek Z]

Interesting to see Jan Černy also in a Fiesta Rally3 and impressive for Laskowski to beat him !

Yes, I imagine it must have been quite a disappointment for Cerny to be defeated by a 16-year-old driver in the same car...

[Jarek Z]

As many as 11 Fiestas Rally3 on the entry list for Croatia Rally. Not bad!
https://www.wrc.com//?proxy=redaktion/WEB-2022/Events/Downloads/WRC_Croatia-EntryList_v1.pdf

[Sulland]

Even ARA in the US have gotten a couple of Rally3's over !

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/73343-rally-in-the-100-acre-wood-2022/?s=350894&ct=2365

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2022/march/armstrong-proves-fiesta-rally3-pace/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jon Armstrong said recently that the Rally3 has got a slightly bigger restrictor and an extra 10-15 bhp. This has made a difference out of slow corners and to the top speed.

Is this very recent or been on the cars for a good while ?

[AnttiL]

Jon Armstrong said recently that the Rally3 has got a slightly bigger restrictor and an extra 10-15 bhp. This has made a difference out of slow corners and to the top speed.

Is this very recent or been on the cars for a good while ?

New in the regulations for this year, just follow this thread

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I thought they way he was talking after the Azores and the cars good showing there, it was another power increase...

[pantealex]

As many as 11 Fiestas Rally3 on the entry list for Croatia Rally. Not bad!
https://www.wrc.com//?proxy=redaktion/WEB-2022/Events/Downloads/WRC_Croatia-EntryList_v1.pdf

12.cars.

You probably missed #67 who isn't doing WRC3/WRCJ...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tom Williams on Rally Mexico. Watching the online coverage he really seemed to be chucking the Rally3 car around and it looked great fun.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPZNY-CXIAADRCp?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

It turns out Ford Fiesta Rally3 is not only a good car for young up and coming drivers, but also for rally legends such as Patrick Snijers! Snijers was driving Fiesta Rally3 in TAC Rally last weekand and managed to finish 10th overall! Congratulations! :)

Results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/73802-tac-rally-2022/

A bunch of photos:
http://www.speedactiontv.be/Getimage.aspx?m=F&d=imgnews&n=BRC-22-TAC-03.jpg
https://www.rallylovers.be/imgnieuws/RALLYLOVERS_20220404170303_XL.jpg
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/688029/?entry=3334161
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/688077/?entry=3334161

[dupanton]

It turns out Ford Fiesta Rally3 is not only a good car for young up and coming drivers, but also for rally legends such as Patrick Snijers! Snijers was driving Fiesta Rally3 in TAC Rally last weekand and managed to finish 10th overall! Congratulations! :)

Results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/73802-tac-rally-2022/

A bunch of photos:
http://www.speedactiontv.be/Getimage.aspx?m=F&d=imgnews&n=BRC-22-TAC-03.jpg
https://www.rallylovers.be/imgnieuws/RALLYLOVERS_20220404170303_XL.jpg
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/688029/?entry=3334161
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/688077/?entry=3334161

With some problems with the transmission and a penalty for lateness. His stage times were pretty good, although he said the car was pretty nervous, the back stepping out a lot. That could be settings of course.

[PLuto]

With some problems with the transmission and a penalty for lateness. His stage times were pretty good, although he said the car was pretty nervous, the back stepping out a lot. That could be settings of course.

We can see from the past that Patrick can be fast with any "crap" :D

[Sulland]

We can see from the past that Patrick can be fast with any "crap" :D

Did he comment on how he found the Rally3 "crap"?

[Sal yet again]

Hardly surprising the back stepped out a lot having seen some of the footage Ive seen on YT! Took cuts that a Rally2 would have bounced around on.

[PLuto]

Did he comment on how he found the Rally3 crap?

I have never told this. And I think Patrick is the same. Point of my sentence was that Patrick is able to be fast with almost every car he is driving.

[Sulland]

I know. Added exclamartion mark, to avoid any confution.

Always hard to try to be funny being a non native speaker.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hardly surprising the back stepped out a lot having seen some of the footage Ive seen on YT! Took cuts that a Rally2 would have bounced around on.

Exactly. Plus the back ends of everything were stepping out on those muddy corners, even the fwd cars !

[br21]

Rear suspension stroke is relatively short plus standard dampers are bottoming out quite easily, so that's the reason

[dupanton]

Exactly. Plus the back ends of everything were stepping out on those muddy corners, even the fwd cars !

He knows a thing or 2 about muddy cuts :p So that comment is not only about those corners, but also about dry corners where you just stay on the road (yes, they exist in Belgium :p ).

I think Bartek is closer to the truth ;)

[Sulland]

What engine are we guessing Renault will use on their Rally3 Clio?

The 1,3 Rally4 engine, or do they have a 1,6 engine they can use?
__________________________________________________ ____

Nice explanation on how the Rally3 Fiesta did so well in Croatia
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-m-sports-newest-car-shaped-an-underdog-story/

[Jarek Z]

Nice explanation on how the Rally3 Fiesta did so well in Croatia
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-m-sports-newest-car-shaped-an-underdog-story/

Good article and video!

In the meantime we have 2 new Fiestas in Polish championship. One for Marcin Kowal:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rsmp/photos/marcin-kowal-sebastian-lenkowski-ford-fiesta-rally3-62329135/62329135/
and one for Kamil Bolek:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rsmp/photos/kamil-bolek-lukasz-jastrzebski-ford-fiesta-rally3-62435851/62435851/

[HKSjbg]

“ DON’T TELL MALCOLM [WILSON] BUT I WAS TRYING MY HARDEST TO TALK HIM OUT OF A RALLY2 PROGRAM BECAUSE I THINK YOU CAN SPEND THE SAME MONEY AND PROBABLY GET DOUBLE THE EVENTS IN A RALLY3 CAR.”

That’s an interesting reference point - around half the cost to run a Rally3 car to a Rally2, according to Rich Millener

[Sulland]

Anyone that dare to speculate, or knows something:

- What engine are we guessing Renault will use on their Rally3 Clio?
The 1,3 Rally4 engine, or do they have a 1,6 engine they can use?

[WRCStan]

Anyone that dare to speculate, or knows something:

- What engine are we guessing Renault will use on their Rally3 Clio?
The 1,3 Rally4 engine, or do they have a 1,6 engine they can use?

Prove that such an entity exists with desire to build such a car first.

[wyler]

Prove that such an entity exists with desire to build such a car first.
strong rumor about homologation on april 2023

[WRCStan]

strong rumor about homologation on april 2023

If so, they do have a 1.6l engine. It's only offered as part of an automatic hybrid but that can be ignored.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Two-time ERC champion and nine-time Colin McRae Flat Out Trophy winner Alexey Lukyanuk was on Cyprus on Saturday, April 30th. The reason for the presence of the Russian champion was his compatriot Dmitry Feofanov and his acquisition of the new Ford Fiesta Rally3."

[dupanton]

Prove that such an entity exists with desire to build such a car first.

They are working on it. They are finalizing the car to start testing.

[WRCStan]

They are working on it. They are finalizing the car to start testing.

But who is/are "they"? The people kept in the shadows who cannot be mentioned like we're in some dystopian novel. Even Google has been silenced.

[wyler]

But who is/are "they"? The people kept in the shadows who cannot be mentioned like we're in some dystopian novel. Even Google has been silenced.

google better! : )

Renault Customer Racing director Benoit Nogier

wrc.com, WEDNESDAY | 16 FEB 2022
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc3/renault---s-clio-rally3-almost-ready-to-break-cover/

dirtfish.com, 09 FEB ‘22
https://dirtfish.com/rally/renault-reveals-rally3-launch-timeline/

and others...

[Sulland]

Nogier said that they will start testing in end of feb, beginning of march. Now we are in the beginning of may.
So someone from Renault could come out with a small update on the project.

[vino_93]

About Renault : https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/rallye-france/la-genese-de-la-clio-rally3-episode-1.html

[WRCStan]

Where I'm coming from: Renault corporate have cancelled Renault Sport and target a 100% electric offering for consumer cars. No more Renault Sport cars. But, the side hustle's side hustle that was Renault Sport Customer Racing isn't worth abandoning. (If it wasn't commercially successful it'd be shut down immediately, no?) That department, now shifted out of the Renault brand to Alpine Customer Racing, see a Renault Rally3 could be a viable commercial success and so plod on developing a car build.

Hypothesise with me. Alpine couldn't care what the new guys from Renault Customer Racing are doing with Renaults, at least for now whilst these restructures take time. Renault brand clearly don't want to be associated with this dirty carbon stuff or motorsport, even if it's a little earner overall for the corporate. So maybe Renault corporate will put their foot down with a firm hand on an Alpine developed Renault Rally3? It's a possibility.

Google Renault Clio Rally4 (https://www.google.com/search?q=renault+clio+rally4), we know they exist but there isn't an official landing page for them anywhere. Renaultsport.com redirects to Alpine F1 team. Some Customer Racing pressers (https://en.media.renault.com/customer-racing.html) continue to be released by a contractor PR company, but there's nothing on their own Rally3 or what they're up to structurally - obviously. Everything is in the shadows and brought to light through personal relationships in news articles and forum posts.

[wyler]

Where I'm coming from: Renault corporate have cancelled Renault Sport and target a 100% electric offering for consumer cars. No more Renault Sport cars. But, the side hustle's side hustle that was Renault Sport Customer Racing isn't worth abandoning. (If it wasn't commercially successful it'd be shut down immediately, no?) That department, now shifted out of the Renault brand to Alpine Customer Racing, see a Renault Rally3 could be a viable commercial success and so plod on developing a car build.

Hypothesise with me. Alpine couldn't care what the new guys from Renault Customer Racing are doing with Renaults, at least for now whilst these restructures take time. Renault brand clearly don't want to be associated with this dirty carbon stuff or motorsport, even if it's a little earner overall for the corporate. So maybe Renault corporate will put their foot down with a firm hand on an Alpine developed Renault Rally3? It's a possibility.

Google Renault Clio Rally4 (https://www.google.com/search?q=renault+clio+rally4), we know they exist but there isn't an official landing page for them anywhere. Renaultsport.com redirects to Alpine F1 team. Some Customer Racing pressers (https://en.media.renault.com/customer-racing.html) continue to be released by a contractor PR company, but there's nothing on their own Rally3 or what they're up to structurally - obviously. Everything is in the shadows and brought to light through personal relationships in news articles and forum posts.

remember where we are. a forum: just a place to share news and rumors, even if they're not an official press release. renault rally3 will never be? ok, we just wasted some words! : )
let's hope the shadowy insider rumors are true!

[Sulland]

Renault is changing these days.
https://events.renault.com/

Renault will be only electrical cars
Alpine will be f1 and sportcars

Then it starts to become a little blury, what about the rest.

If I had anything to say, I would take everything that has to do with Rally and normal tin top racing, I would call those Gordini. Again a Renault brand that has been used in rally, both R8, 12 and 17, maybe more models.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordini

Go Gordini !

[WRCStan]

If I had anything to say, I would take everything that has to do with Rally and normal tin top racing, I would call those Gordini. Again a Renault brand that has been used in rally, both R8, 12 and 17, maybe more models.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordini

Go Gordini !

Just for the purpose of motorsport? You'd still then have to build 2500. It's coming back to the conversation of how sustainable is manufacturer backed series production rallying/racing when series manufacturers are saying they don't want to be involved.

At least with what Nogier says about the Clio in that last link is they can easily tap into an existing homologation with Rally3 variants, perhaps without disturbing corporate. How many do they expect to build and sell in secret? It's not good for the sport; these Rally3s should be as numerous as group N.

[dimviii]

Gyus have in mind that Renault have big problems with Lada in Russia right now.

[dupanton]

Nobody has to believe me, but I talked to a engineer this weekend who works on the project for Alpine / Renault Sport. They had some delay with certain parts but testing should start shortly.

[Sulland]

Gyus have in mind that Renault have big problems with Lada in Russia right now.

Everyone with business in Russia have challenges these days.
But Lada is not a major issue for Renault Group
Here are the countries they are represented in; https://www.lada.ru/en/country
But they are not doing bad home in Russia https://rusautonews.com/2022/01/19/top-25-best-selling-cars-in-russia-in-2021/

The good thing is that Renault will start testing their new Rally3 soon!
ClassCompetition is good!

[Sulland]

If Renault end up using the Rally4 engine also for the Rally3, what pro's and con's will that give?
3 vs 4 cylinders
1300 vs 1500 ccm
31 mm restrictor vs 30, what difference will we see. Same as for Ford, aprox 20 hp increase?

Engine gurus in the forum, pls blow us away with your assessments? :p

[dimviii]

Everyone with business in Russia have challenges these days.
But Lada is not a major issue for Renault Group
Here are the countries they are represented in; https://www.lada.ru/en/country
But they are not doing bad home in Russia https://rusautonews.com/2022/01/19/top-25-best-selling-cars-in-russia-in-2021/

The good thing is that Renault will start testing their new Rally3 soon!
ClassCompetition is good!

renault will sell lada,and will loose huge ammount of profit.

[M5]

If Renault end up using the Rally4 engine also for the Rally3, what pro's and con's will that give?
3 vs 4 cylinders
1300 vs 1500 ccm
31 mm restrictor vs 30, what difference will we see. Same as for Ford, aprox 20 hp increase?

Engine gurus in the forum, pls blow us away with your assessments? :p

Like that they develop the Rally 5 and 4 engine further.
Sound of 4 cyl better.
Guessing aprox 240 hp, and 410 nm.

[Sulland]

Do anyone know the current numbers of produced cars, and sold cars of the Fiesta?

Its been a good while since last update on eWRC, and a few cars that has been used, but no matched productionnumber in db.

[Sulland]

Nobody has to believe me, but I talked to a engineer this weekend who works on the project for Alpine / Renault Sport. They had some delay with certain parts but testing should start shortly.

Have they now gotten all the parts needed to get a couple of testcars put together?

[dupanton]

Have they now gotten all the parts needed to get a couple of testcars put together?

I'm not that close to the project :p I pick up stuff every now and then.

Target is to deliver first cars to customers in March '23 so should be. I know people who already ordered one as well :)

[Sulland]

Ok perfect.
I was just comparing with Skodas project plan with S2000, R5 and Rally2. Lots of testing with many drivers on all conditions, to get a car that is easy to get adapted to most driving styles.
8-9 months goes fast, and then get ready to homologation with late adjustments.

But I guess everyone feels the corona + Russia invation + shipping on the log situation, and will delay.

[Gordini]

June 1, no tests from Renault so far
Any news on when
maybe after summer now

[br21]

they test

[Sulland]

they test

Splendid if you all post a link here to pictures and testfilms when they start to come out.

[Sulland]

Very impressive pace by Virves in Rally Poland!

The car is showing its potential. Would be cool to see it with 32mm restrictor, but maybe then you will challenge reliability, and cost control.

[vino_93]

Splendid if you all post a link here to pictures and testfilms when they start to come out.

They started their tests program in May or beginning of June, not sure. After a first run in Monthléry track, they moved to Château-Lastour to test on gravel with Jean-Sébastien Vigion & Andrea Crugnola. They are at the start on 8/9 intensive testing before homologation. They were happy with their first runs.
Next tests should have been on gravel too, in the Vosges.
https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/la-genese-de-la-clio-rally3-episode-2.html

[Sulland]

They started their tests program in May or beginning of June, not sure. After a first run in Monthléry track, they moved to Château-Lastour to test on gravel with Jean-Sébastien Vigion & Andrea Crugnola. They are at the start on 8/9 intensive testing before homologation. They were happy with their first runs.
Next tests should have been on gravel too, in the Vosges.
https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/rallye/la-genese-de-la-clio-rally3-episode-2.html

Very good, hopefully they bring in more drivers, with different driving styles as testers, so they end up with an easy car to set up on both surfaces.

[TWRC]

Sarrazin, Bouffier, Guigou tested the Rally4 Clio outside of Vigion and the usual Renault/Alpine drivers, so I think some/all will be drafted in for this one as well.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder if Toksport (Clio Trophy team) will play a role n testing and maybe running the cars in future ?

[Sulland]

First testfilm, but not with enginesound.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u48ZoqOTY-A

I see that they are testing without a roof wing installed. Is that a normal way to start, or could they experience inbalance when they put it on the car?

[TWRC]

I think they are at a phase where it doesnt really matter much, just testing component reliability and alltogether functionality. later when they go for performance testing, it will matter more I think.

[WRCStan]

When looking at the other categories, one surprise only: Fotia is missing in ERC4 (a bit surprising for a tarmac driver). Renault disappointed with his results? (Also some rumors about management changes in Renault/Alpine Sport; if true, maybe some impacts on their Rally3 program?)

What are the rumours?

[Danny0405]

What are the rumours?

Heard rumors about Benoit Nogier (customer competition leader) to be sidelined.

If true (it’s only something I heard by a person knowing a bit the business but not in the brand itself, so it’s why I’m only talking about rumors), it may imply some changes in the strategy because Nogier was the one who build the current Rally strategy of the brand.
I don’t say it will have an impact on Rally3 (don’t know one side or another) but maybe at least on the formula series by Clio or things like that.

[Sulland]

Any more news on the Clio Rally3 or Benoit Nogiers roles?

[Jarek Z]

18-year-old Max McRae, son of Alister and nephew of the famous Colin, tested Ford Fiesta Rally3 in Poland last week. He would like to run a Junior WRC campaign in 2023. More about it here:
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/junior-wrc/teenager-mcrae-eyes-junior-wrc-in-2023/

[fegh]

Any more news on the Clio Rally3 or Benoit Nogiers roles?https://youtu.be/K_C3jSJDYC8

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

- Sounds different than the Fiesta.
- Suspension needs more work
- Strange they test without a rear roof spoiler, even if it is less efective than Rally2 spoiler, it will affect road holding.

Good they are testing. They need a Fiesta to compare :-)

[M5]

Are any nations planning to make Rally3 top class?

[PLuto]

Are any nations planning to make Rally3 top class?

For sure not. There is no sense to do it as there is Rally2.

[Sulland]

Probably same test, but different filmmaker.

Test Renault Clio Rally3 - Franceschi Jean Baptiste https://youtu.be/u4LvGsXCma4 via @YouTube

[RallyFan13]

Rally 3 class highlights from Acropolis Rally
https://youtu.be/6Q0BN-CpTtI

[Gordini]

Is any 2 hand Rally 3 fiestas coming for sale after season?
What guess you they be advertet to?

[ouvreur]

Is any 2 hand Rally 3 fiestas coming for sale after season?
What guess you they be advertet to?

I guess this year's JWRC cars might be up for sale by M-Sport Poland? Might be worth sending them an email?

[Sulland]

I guess this year's JWRC cars might be up for sale by M-Sport Poland? Might be worth sending them an email?

Lets see what MSport want for them.
If a typical new Rally3 they sell to customers will be 100 000 for a base car + extra equipment 30-40 000 euro.

So after a year in JWRC they should maybe be sold for 80-100 000€ depending on how much extra "nice to have"
equipment they have.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/ford-fiesta-rally3-55/

[Sulland]

Have anyone seen more news from Renault on testing, also on gravel, and a definitive homologation date?

[Andre Oliveira]

Renault Clio Rally3

https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1582448001120813057?s=46&t=zMXpk67vQAhbTwHZqy2Hsg

[Sulland]

So FIA wants 4 brands in Rally3, so 2 more than the two we know of so far.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-wants-four-manufacturers-in-rally3/

What are they doing to move towards that goal?

[Alpine-110]

Do R3 need an other mm big restrictor?
20 more hp is good.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So FIA wants 4 brands in Rally3, so 2 more than the two we know of so far.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-wants-four-manufacturers-in-rally3/

What are they doing to move towards that goal?

I dont know, but Toyota should be well onto Rally3 with having the best road car for one already in the 4wd GR Yaris.

[Andre Oliveira]

Do R3 need an other mm big restrictor?
20 more hp is good.

Rally3. R3 is something different.

[Sulland]

Yes from a sales perspective, a GR Yaris Rally3 kit would be perfect both from a rally and roadcar perspective.
The starting point from a GR Yaris is better than the old Gr N cars.

[Sulland]

Do R3 need an other mm big restrictor?
20 more hp is good.

At some stage maintenence cost will start to rise.
At least 50% less maintenence budget than a Rally2 is important for a lot of privateers.

Not sure if 1 mm more is enough to start that spiral, maybe the tech spesialists here have more to add.

[ictus]

Yes from a sales perspective, a GR Yaris Rally3 kit would be perfect both from a rally and roadcar perspective.

Not sure, as the rally car would have less power than the road car, also it would make more sense to make the rally3 car based on a normal yaris (cheaper body parts)

[becher]

Yes from a sales perspective, a GR Yaris Rally3 kit would be perfect both from a rally and roadcar perspective.
The starting point from a GR Yaris is better than the old Gr N cars.

Why? And Why?

[Sulland]

Cause the evo and Impreza crowd need a new car to woow. The gr N cars are soon youngtimers.
The GR Yaris has a well funtionimg aftermarket tuner market. Several cups with different tuning are also around.

A Rally3 that looks like the new Rally2 car that is just shown in Japan, would be a nice addition to the family!

[Andre Oliveira]

Renault Clio Rally3 looks good

https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1593039571167891457?s=46&t=H7Dfbs0l-uoZJPmj4jmvLQ

[manthey]

Renault Clio Rally3 looks good

https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1593039571167891457?s=46&t=H7Dfbs0l-uoZJPmj4jmvLQReally Good!!!

[Sulland]

Rear spoiler is also bolted on, so it is getting closer.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1593244472095043586?s=46&t=bZFQOorZeFTzuxVRCSbE8A

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhxXgCPVEAAmw8m?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

Photo of AleksiP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhx3pHVX0AAfFHY?format=jpg&name=medium

[becher]

Cause the evo and Impreza crowd need a new car to woow. The gr N cars are soon youngtimers.
The GR Yaris has a well funtionimg aftermarket tuner market. Several cups with different tuning are also around.

A Rally3 that looks like the new Rally2 car that is just shown in Japan, would be a nice addition to the family!

Sure a Yaris Rally3 makes sense, but why would the starting point be any better than the old Gr. N cars? Rally3 is so far removed from the old Gr. N concept that any technical comparison is kind of pointless. Rally 3 is just a modified roadcar shell with bespoke running gear (i.e. nothing really left from the base car) while Gr. N were modified production cars, so the question which is a better starting point is sort of moot isn't it?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhyDN28X0AAZkf7?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhyDcL5WQAAdsqj?format=jpg&name=large

[Sulland]

New rear wing on the Fiesta as well?


Photo of AleksiP

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fhx3pHVX0AAfFHY?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

New rear wing on the Fiesta as well?

Yes and looking good... as is the whole car with it's neat and sporty 3-door body. I hope M-Sport stocked up on them - maybe that's why Ford are only selling 5-door models now ! ;)

[Sulland]

I like the sound of the Clio better than the Fiesta (4 vs 3 cyl)
Will be cool to se them in competition, to start comparing engine drivability and outputs on numbers.

Have the regs on wings changed to 2023, since MSport upgrade theirs?

[becher]

I like the sound of the Clio better than the Fiesta (4 vs 3 cyl)
Will be cool to se them in competition, to start comparing engine drivability and outputs on numbers.

Have the regs on wings changed to 2023, since MSport upgrade theirs?

The change looks similar to the Rally2 change this year.

[Sulland]

So basically in line with this then.

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2022/07/25/upgraded-aero-package-for-the-ford-fiesta-rally2/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fh2jS69WAAE37cm?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fh2jS7CXwAAIeJk?format=jpg&name=large

[dupanton]

First "public" tests today, with several teams invited to run the car on tarmac today. Tomorrow the same thing happens on gravel.

[becher]

So basically in line with this then.

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2022/07/25/upgraded-aero-package-for-the-ford-fiesta-rally2/
I'd say so.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

First "public" tests today, with several teams invited to run the car on tarmac today. Tomorrow the same thing happens on gravel.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9WrNvqxrNNY?feature=share

[Sulland]

Any films from the gravel testing?

[Andre Oliveira]

New spec Fiesta Rally3. Front facelift and new rear spoiler.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/video/43110-m-sport-test-new-ford-fiesta-rally-3-jon-armstrong-max-mcrae-william-creighton/

[Jarek Z]

New spec Fiesta Rally3. Front facelift and new rear spoiler.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/video/43110-m-sport-test-new-ford-fiesta-rally-3-jon-armstrong-max-mcrae-william-creighton/

It must be an old video. We have autumn in Poland now and we don't wear T-shirts and shorts at this time of year :)

[Sulland]

Any films from the gravel testing?

No one?

[ictus]

just type "clio rally3 gravel" in YT and you get this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CheMGVMjxcs

[Kenneth]

Clio to be launched in January

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Clio to be launched in January

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2022/clio-rally3-to-launch-in-2023/

[Jarek Z]

https://www.fiaerc.com/erc/news/erc/2022/clio-rally3-to-launch-in-2023/

Wow! That's quick! So already in April we should see the first-ever four-wheel drive rally car built by Renault. I hope it will be as successful as their FWD cars!

Like this one for example ;)
https://64.media.tumblr.com/bc00c1bec6908648f503454c56d5f5d4/85fd6129f8aed32e-cd/s1280x1920/0987c93a7248d17a1c1490674b8f407c495fa953.png

[Sulland]

Clio homologated 1 April it says, so not much than coursecar duty before that.

Very much looking forward to the first rally where we will see the Fiesta and the Clio head to head, to spot the strengths and weaknesses between them.

Personally i like the sounds of the Clio more than the 3cyl Fiesta, since it seems to rev higher. But no joy in that if the Fiesta is quicker. We just have to wait, and discuss here :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Nice details from Yann Paranthoën, chief engineer of Renault Customer Racing, speaking to DirtFish:

https://dirtfish.com/archive/renault-completes-latest-stage-of-rally3-development/

[Andre Oliveira]

M-Sport Poland building chassis 100.

[Sulland]

23312332


Chazel is gaining Rally3 knowhow!

[ictus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xti-87O-Sek
Official Clio promo clip

[Sulland]

Paralell topic as in Rally2 thread

Checked Rally3 Fiesta price when it came, prices might have changed

Rally ready car in either Gravel or Asphalt config 99 900 euro
VIN number registration 10 000 euro
Gravel or Asphalt conversion kit 10 000 euro

total 120 000

Normal equipment/ spares package chosen by most drivers/teams 10 000-30 000 euro

In grand total 130 to 150 000 euro

So aprox 50% of a Rally2 car, with same equipment.

[Jarek Z]

... and it was going to replace group N cars. Will it ever happen?

[Sulland]

How much was a top notch WRX or Evo in the end, also with R4 spec?

[skarderud]

If i remember correctly, a top spec impreza Gr.N from Tommi Mäkinen Racing costed over 100K with spares.
A Mitsubishi Evo X R4 costed 120K, again, if i remember correctly.

But most Gr.N imprezas costed from 70-80K, probably "clean".

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[ictus]

If i remember correctly, a top spec impreza Gr.N from Tommi Mäkinen Racing costed over 100K with spares.
A Mitsubishi Evo X R4 costed 120K, again, if i remember correctly.

But most Gr.N imprezas costed from 70-80K, probably "clean".

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

the key in your post is past tense... Since few yers ago prices have gone up significantly...
So the price of a rally 3 is relative to gr N

[jcevc]

If i remember correctly, a top spec impreza Gr.N from Tommi Mäkinen Racing costed over 100K with spares.
A Mitsubishi Evo X R4 costed 120K, again, if i remember correctly.

But most Gr.N imprezas costed from 70-80K, probably "clean".

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Top spec N4 cars cost way more than 100.000€.
For Prodrive Impreza N12 in 2006 they paid around 120.000-130.000€ (just car), also top spec EVO9 N4 with all possible parts from Ralliart was more than 100.000€.

[manthey]

Top spec N4 cars cost way more than 100.000€.
For Prodrive Impreza N12 in 2006 they paid around 120.000-130.000€ (just car), also top spec EVO9 N4 with all possible parts from Ralliart was more than 100.000€.Mad prices for Group N if you consider 2006 vs 2022, just only on inflations terms

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Note that the Renault will be a pure customer operation for the Clio Rally3 as they have no in-house rally team to run it. Unlike M-Sport (Poland) which did the Fiesta.

Any ideas which teams may buy/run the new Clio for customers apart from Chazel and Fun Meca Sport ?

[dupanton]

They will build 1 Rally3/week. I'm sure there will be a waiting list. I know there are a few of them ordered for the Netherlands.

[Sulland]

Note that the Renault will be a pure customer operation for the Clio Rally3 as they have no in-house rally team to run it. Unlike M-Sport (Poland) which did the Fiesta.

Any ideas which teams may buy/run the new Clio for customers apart from Chazel and Fun Meca Sport ?

I guess there are many french teams that could do it on their behalf. Toksport are already there, and have links to Renault.
And MSport Poland is concentrating on JWRC I guess.

on the other hand, could be good with a championship for the privateers !

[Co-driven]

I guess there are many french teams that could do it on their behalf. Toksport are already there, and have links to Renault.
And MSport Poland is concentrating on JWRC I guess.

on the other hand, could be good with a championship for the privateers !

Toksport sold all Clios right after Barum and, as far as I know, they don't plan to keep running the Clio Trophy.

[Daniel Popov]

the key in your post is past tense... Since few yers ago prices have gone up significantly...
So the price of a rally 3 is relative to gr N

But Rally3 is not relative to N4. In a lot of countries back in the day, the group N was a top tier car with which you could fight for overall victories/podiums. Now the Rally3 barely fights a Rally4 car.
Also with the N4 you could start on a low budget and step by step build it up to a top spec. With the Rally3 you are on 120 000 Euro from the get go.
So I don't think Rally3 replaces N4, it is it's own new group with it's customers.

[liposh]

Also with the N4 you could start on a low budget and step by step build it up to a top spec. With the Rally3 you are on 120 000 Euro from the get go.
So I don't think Rally3 replaces N4, it is it's own new group with it's customers.

You are right, but the era of N4 is gone. I mean the whole concept of having "stock" car and building better and better car is not technically possible due to macro-economical reasons. So the customers could be quite similar group ...

“The world has changed.
I see it in the water.
I feel it in the Earth.
I smell it in the air.
Much that once was is lost,
For none now live who remember it. ”

― J. R. R. Tolkien

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think the impression was given that the Rally3 would 'replace' the old Group N Evos & Subaru's, when in fact those cars owner's mostly wont be doing that.

It's only 'replacing' them if you want to buy a brand new 4WD rally car.

[Sulland]

But Rally3 is not relative to N4. In a lot of countries back in the day, the group N was a top tier car with which you could fight for overall victories/podiums. Now the Rally3 barely fights a Rally4 car.
Also with the N4 you could start on a low budget and step by step build it up to a top spec. With the Rally3 you are on 120 000 Euro from the get go.
So I don't think Rally3 replaces N4, it is it's own new group with it's customers.

N4 and Rally3 are very different animals. One being a stock car being tuned to become a rally car, with its flaws, mainly weight and gearboxes that brakes.
Rally3 is a purpose buildt racecar, but with tech limitations to keep the price down. But 100 000 euro is still out of reach for many privateers.

But since it was called R1-R5 till now Rally5 to Rally2 the pricetag for each layer almost doubled.
At some stage it becomes too expensive to have Rally2 as national top class.
For many nations it will be sensible to have Rally3 as national top-class, then the topclass will become wider with more teams, than with keeping Rally2.
Rally3 prices will also come down, as number of sold cars creates a good second hand market.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

For many nations it will be sensible to have Rally3 as national top-class, then the topclass will become wider with more teams, than with keeping Rally2.


So it's like BRC & ARC ten years ago, only with AWD instead of 2WD??

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

M-Sport Poland building chassis 100.

So what do you think? 100 cars in 2 years. Is it a lot? For a rally car that is supposed to be the car of choice for the first 4WD experience?
There are not that many Fiestas Rally 3 competing around the world, are there?

[hutchie]

So what do you think? 100 cars in 2 years. Is it a lot? For a rally car that is supposed to be the car of choice for the first 4WD experience?
There are not that many Fiestas Rally 3 competing around the world, are there?

Are there many championships that you could go do with your Fiesta Rally3?

It will only become the car of choice for first 4WD experience if there are championships you can compete in on a level field. Majority of Rally3 cars won't be used in full WRC seasons. What's needed is for national championships to use Rally3 cars allowing Juniors to compete at home and then step up to WRC in the same car.

This is where the Clio could be a game changer especially in France and hopefully further afield. As the Renault championships always look possible, so we could see lots of French drivers competing at home and then using the car to try ERC and WRC events.

[Sulland]

So what do you think? 100 cars in 2 years. Is it a lot?

Yes it is huge for a new carclass!

But I agree that Rally3 need own classes around in different nations.
They can not compete in the same class as Rally2, in classes called international or modern 4wd.

In many nations where rally has little sponsorship, you will get a broader top class if buying a car and maintaining a car is aprox 50% cheaper, and speed difference is 2 sec a km.

With top drivers using the Rally3 speeds will also go up, and the cars will be driven more spectalularly!

Renault should put top french drivers on asphalt and gravel into their Clio, to demonstrate potential. Loeb for instance.... :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The issue with the Rally3 car has always been the vast number of used R5 / Rally2 cars out there and which are able to compete everywhere.

If you had the money which would you buy ?

[Sulland]

If you talk to people driving older R5s, they are getting more and more expensive to run, and maintenence take a lot of their budget.

If I had a narrow budget, I would go Rally3, especially if I had rally2 speed in my body. Then a lower speed car give you an advantage, since your brain is used to less time to react.

Rally3 deserve some top drivers to show max their potential!

[Andre Oliveira]

Rally3 have own class. RC3

[Sulland]

Rally3 have own class. RC3

Internationally yes, but not all ACNs have championships for RC3. Both because it is new, and also because they have simplified the number of classes that will get awarded with a title.

In both Sweden and Norway we have 4 main classes.
International 2 and 4 wd. Cars that still have a FIA homologation.
National 2 and 4wd. Cars that no longer hold a valid FIA homologation.

This is done to simplify rally classes for non petrolheads following this on TV.

So at least in Norway Rally2 and Rally3 fight for the same points in Int 4wd.
Thats why none Rally3 cars are still registered here.

In Finland there is a different story.

[Andre Oliveira]

I remember Norway don't allow Rally3 in first year (to score). They allowed in 2022?

[Sulland]

I remember Norway don't allow Rally3 in first year (to score). They allowed in 2022?

They have own class, for cup/medal/ silverware still in same class as R5/Rally2
As you see here S2000, RRC, R5, Rally2 and Rally3 are in the same Norwegian championship class 1! All still homologated 4wd cars :eek:

https://bilsport.no/wp-content/uploads/poengstilling/Rally_NM_kl1_22.pdf

[Andre Oliveira]

Ok. So only in 2021 they were not allowed.

[Andre Oliveira]

6th one in Ford Türkiye

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fkny9I_XoAMIvO5?format=jpg&name=large

[Alpine-110]

Can not wait to see the Alpine Renault Clio Rally3 driven in rallye

I think it will beat Ford Rally3.

[Jarek Z]

Can not wait to see the Alpine Renault Clio Rally3 driven in rallye

Is it going to be called "Alpine"?

[ictus]

Is it going to be called "Alpine"?

quite possible, since there is no "RS" in renault instead the sporty versions of Renaults are called "Alpine line" or something simular

[Sulland]

Seems like the RS family is up in the air these days.
Alpine has taken over the Racing part, but customer rally is still undecided.
Maybe they should call the rally arm Gordini? A good old Renault brand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordini

[Fast Eddie WRC]

quite possible, since there is no "RS" in renault instead the sporty versions of Renaults are called "Alpine line" or something simular

Sporty spec Renaults are still called RS-Line here in the UK.

[ictus]

Sporty spec Renaults are still called RS-Line here in the UK.

not for long

[Sulland]

If FIA wants 4 manufacturers to make Rally3 cars.

Do we know if FIA is doing something to get 2 more onboard?

[Jarek Z]

Have a look, there is no interest in this class in the UK at all:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?43015-Rally3-use-in-the-UK

[wyler]

fiesta rally3 just inside top10 after 1st day at jannerrallye

[Sulland]

Are anyone here going here 15 January for the Clio Rally3 presentation?

https://www.cliorally.com/activites-competition-clients-2022-35.html?r=491

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Have a look, there is no interest in this class in the UK at all:
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?43015-Rally3-use-in-the-UK

Somebody needs to run one here and show what it can do.

Matt Edwards 3x BRC Champion told me he'd love to enter one, but there is no funding or sponsorship for this (or anything else actually !). :(

[Fast Eddie WRC]

NINE Ford Fiesta Rally3 on Artic Lapland Rally !

LIVE on YT https://youtu.be/H3n8KNAbNPs

[Jarek Z]

fiesta rally3 just inside top10 after 1st day at jannerrallye

Finally Filip Kohn finished Janner just outside of top 10, in the 11th position, in front of many R5 cars as well as all Lancers and Imprezas.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/755786/?entry=3595722

[wyler]

Finally Filip Kohn finished Janner just outside of top 10, in the 11th position, in front of many R5 cars as well as all Lancers and Imprezas.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/755786/?entry=3595722

he is rumored to do wrc3 right?

[Jarek Z]

he is rumored to do wrc3 right?

I have no idea. I have never heard about this driver.

[Kenneth]

He confirmed that he will compete in WRC Junior + 1 more WRC event.

[Andre Oliveira]

Not on official entries

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2023/junior-wrc/fresh-look-for-junior-wrc-full-2023-line-up-confirmed/

[Kenneth]

So looks like he will drive on same rounds as WRC Junior, but will compete only in WRC3.

[Steve Boyd]

NINE Ford Fiesta Rally3 on Artic Lapland Rally !

LIVE on YT https://youtu.be/H3n8KNAbNPs
Including "Matt Edwards 3x BRC Champion" co-driving for Eamonn Kelly.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Including "Matt Edwards 3x BRC Champion" co-driving for Eamonn Kelly.

I know, that's the main reason I'm watching it.

And what a damning indictment of British rallying that he has to do this to make a living, while the BRC Junior champion gets funding from his MSA because he's Irish.

[Jarek Z]

NINE Ford Fiesta Rally3 on Artic Lapland Rally !

Nice! One of those Fiestas finished the rally in the 7th position overall. Congratulations to Benjamin Korhola!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/80001-arctic-lapland-rally-2023/

[AnttiL]

Arctic Rally live stream mentioned about Opel making a Rally3 car.

[Sulland]

Arctic Rally live stream mentioned about Opel making a Rally3 car.

Who said, and in what context, and what scource?

But it makes sense that Stelantis Group makes one (or two, as for Rally4)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Renault Clio Rally3 has broken cover in public for the first time...

https://twitter.com/DirtFishRally/status/1614355597633134592?s=20&t=NaUPXatAV0hE36Aax5vtlw

Renault Clio Series @RenaultSeries
All info will be revealed in due time (tomorrow).

[Andre Oliveira]

April

122000€ + VAT

https://www.cliorally.com/a-successful-maiden-public-outing-for-clio-rally3.html

[TWRC]

The Renault Clio Rally3 has broken cover in public for the first time...

https://twitter.com/DirtFishRally/status/1614355597633134592?s=20&t=NaUPXatAV0hE36Aax5vtlw

Renault Clio Series @RenaultSeries
All info will be revealed in due time (tomorrow).
Looks like the bonnet vent has been changed, as in the tests they had one big vent instead of two smaller.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Clio Rally3 is powered by the 1.3-litre TCe 16-valve turbocharged 4-cylinder engine with direct injection, with power and torque increased to 260 hp and 415 Nm.

Compared to Fiesta Rally3:
Turbo Charged 1497cc Ford EcoBoost Technology. 12 valve. 3 cylinders in line.
POWER: 235HP AT 5,000 RPM. TORQUE:
415Nm at 3,500 RPM

[manthey]

Clio Rally3 is powered by the 1.3-litre TCe 16-valve turbocharged 4-cylinder engine with direct injection, with power and torque increased to 260 hp and 415 Nm.

Compared to Fiesta Rally3:
Turbo Charged 1497cc Ford EcoBoost Technology. 12 valve. 3 cylinders in line.
POWER: 235HP AT 5,000 RPM. TORQUE:
415Nm at 3,500 RPMSeems quite a big difference 25hp...maybe a old power output on Fiesta?

[ictus]

Clio Rally3 is powered by the 1.3-litre TCe 16-valve turbocharged 4-cylinder engine with direct injection, with power and torque increased to 260 hp and 415 Nm.

Compared to Fiesta Rally3:
Turbo Charged 1497cc Ford EcoBoost Technology. 12 valve. 3 cylinders in line.
POWER: 235HP AT 5,000 RPM. TORQUE:
415Nm at 3,500 RPM

Official power figures are as relevant as works driver comments about the performance of a new car

[AnttiL]

Seems quite a big difference 25hp...maybe a old power output on Fiesta?

Yeah, restrictor was increased for last year

[Sulland]

Clio Rally3 is powered by the 1.3-litre TCe 16-valve turbocharged 4-cylinder engine with direct injection, with power and torque increased to 260 hp and 415 Nm.

Compared to Fiesta Rally3:
Turbo Charged 1497cc Ford EcoBoost Technology. 12 valve. 3 cylinders in line.
POWER: 235HP AT 5,000 RPM. TORQUE:
415Nm at 3,500 RPM

30mm restrictor Fiesta version had 215 hp and 400 nm.

We will see if there are differences once the Clio hits the customers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Journo Luke Barry had a test drive...

https://twitter.com/lukebarry97/status/1614584068221423617?s=20&t=pzUc5v07_VQkLAqNaW5GZQ

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yeah, restrictor was increased for last year

And 235bhp is the new power figure.

"Wednesday’s FIA World Motor Sport Council decision means the cars in next year’s one-make series will use 31mm turbo restrictors instead of the 30mm restrictor they were originally homologated with.

The larger restrictor means power is increased from 215bhp to 235bhp, whilst torque is also drastically improved from 400Nm to 425Nm.'

[ictus]

The dyno on the Fiesta shows "a few" hp more ;)

[manthey]

So the power output of the clio has to be reduced

[Gordini]

Do you know rpm where max nm and hp comes at clio?
max 7100 sound good, what is max on fiesta.

[becher]

The dyno on the Fiesta shows "a few" hp more ;)

Can you give a more specific number?

[Andre Oliveira]

Renault asked FIA to open JWRC.

Info by Shakedown Media

[Sulland]

Renault asked FIA to open JWRC.

Info by Shakedown Media

How long is the Ford deal signed for?

[Danny0405]

How long is the Ford deal signed for?

In an old interview, Nogier (former chief of Renault in Rally) told it was probably a standard 3-year contract with the Rally3 cars (would mean 2 years left including 2023).

Personally, a bit skeptical about opening it or to be more precise, I think we will not be back to the 2000’s era with plenty of brands and drivers.
Even if the high cost + low reward is one of the issue of the JWRC today, I think the fall of this championship is first a consequence of the lack of ladder of the manufacturer:
- Toyota has nothing under Rally1 today (and only Rally2 in the near future)
- Hyundai has nothing under Rally2 and a youngster policy... very special
- M-Sport has the full range of car but needs money
- Renault has nothing higher than Rally3
- Stellantis has Rally4 and Rally2 but no Rally1 so we cannot wait them to make a big ladder of development for youngster

And I don’t see what Renault can bring to this championship with no car higher than Rally3 (so no ladder).
To end with it, opening JWRC to multiple brands would cause the issue of what to give as a prize to the winner (and if it’s just a championship with no prize to discover the world level, well, you can do WRC3 in that case so no interest in opening JWRC).

[Danny0405]

Well, after the pathetic result of M-Sport in Monte with the Rally2, I would review a bit my judgement (even if I already said multiple times that the prize for winning JWRC is way too weak with 4 rounds in the worst Rally2 car to attract drivers in JWRC).

I still think it should not be an open Championship as Renault as no car above Rally3 but I clearly think that it’s impossible to have an attractive JWRC championship with M-Sport considering the awful level of the Rally2.

Personally (but it’s just an idea), I would really like that Toksport makes a bid to take the JWRC championship.
Renault can’t take it by itself as they have no car to offer as a prize but Toksport has good links with Renault in Rally4, they have organized the Clio Trophy in RC5 in ERC and, over all, they can offer a good program as a prize if financed by promoter, considering their links with Skoda.
What I would see is a formula with equal Clio Rally3 run by Toksport with the winner obtaining a full WRC-2 (7 rounds) program with the new Skoda RS with Toksport. Even if it would probably needs an increase in the entry cost for competitors, it would attract a lot more drivers than the current formula in my opinion.
We saw than when the prize was good, the number of competitors increased.

[Kenneth]

Dunno if that's really a problem. JERC is open and still have JWRC as prize, but winner get only 3 rounds covered vs full championship, if he wins JERC with Fiesta. Also I'm not sure how much attractive prize Fiesta is. All winners switched as soon as they used their prize.

I'm sure that opening it would help all sides.

[Sulland]

Have Renault said anything on how many firm orders they have for the Rally3?

[dupanton]

Have Renault said anything on how many firm orders they have for the Rally3?

Plenty ;)

They want to deliver the first 25 cars by the end of July, but order book is probably already full for 2023 (+- 1 car / week)

[manthey]

With more mm on the restrictor, wrc3 can close the power - gap with wrc2 cars...

[BBman]

At 32 mm (currently 31 mm) we would be at Group N class restrictor size, which Rally 3 should replace. Especially when considering that Gr N had 2.0 litre engines, while Rally 3 has max displacement of 1.6l, I feel like this is where Rally 3 should have started in the first place.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fiesta Rally3 in BRC debut...

https://www.britishrallychampionship.co.uk/news/mulholland-brings-rally3-to-the-brc-with-fiesta-debut/

[Steve Boyd]

Luke Barry tests the Renault Clio Rally3 (and goes off while doing so!)
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/trying-and-going-off-in-renaults-new-clio-rally3/

[Gordini]

Any other journalist reports from this presentation of car?

[Jarek Z]

Fiesta Rally3 in BRC debut...

https://www.britishrallychampionship.co.uk/news/mulholland-brings-rally3-to-the-brc-with-fiesta-debut/

Finally!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Finally!

Indeed, and that driver is bringing it from N.Ireland ! I believe there is only one Rally3 on the UK mainland but it's just being used in little circuit-based events.

It's a real indictment of the scene here.

[Sulland]

Good Turnout for the Rally3 gang in sweden. 13 cars!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/79247-rally-sweden-2023/

[BBman]

They are consistently at around 2 seconds/km slower that Rally 2. Not sure if that is good or bad, but there is definetly room for another mm in restrictor size.

[Danny0405]

They are consistently at around 2 seconds/km slower that Rally 2. Not sure if that is good or bad, but there is definetly room for another mm in restrictor size.

Things are not that simple IMO because we have to take into account, the level of the drivers, the context of the rallye (class win at stake, ...) and the type of rallyes. If I take the 2022 after the development made (the 2021 was more a development year with a car not that efficient):

- the car is very good on fast gravel; I think that all conditions being the same (driver, context), the gap is no more than 1.5/km (and probably even a bit less like 1.3) which is clearly better than the gap between Rally3 and Rally4 (I would say around 1.7-1.8). It’s why this car is working quite well in Finland for example (8 cars in the first National rounds of the championship). Here, it clearly worth the investment.

- on tarmac, it’s way harder to assess with quite few interesting uses. At first sight, I would say it’s a bit below the average between Rally2 and Rally4 (1.7 maybe down to Rally2 and 1.3 up to Rally4). Will be interesting to see what Pellier can do in Croatia to have a better assessment. It’s still an improvement but less spectacular than on fast gravel.

- on slow gravel, same stuff, not a lot of point of comparison but I would say it’s the weakest type of the car. I’m not sure it is way worst on asphalt on relative ratio Rally2/Rally4 but it’s where the car sounds the worst compared with Rally2 in absolute figures; so I’m not sure Rally3 can really succeed on it.

Let’s see what Renault will bring also; they should have a bit more powerful engine and with the basis on the Clio Rally4 which is excellent on asphalt, it could help a bit.

[Sulland]

And on snow, driving behind all the Rally1 and Rally2 cars with wider track, trying to keep the outer wheels in the traintracks will also create situations that is not easy. And this will increase the difference to the frontrunners in thr Rally2's.

But it would be cool with a top driver in a rally3 car in a gravelrally, to see the real speed difference.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo7E2jVWAAEpER2?format=jpg&name=large