Rally 3 class

[Tom K]

They were both surprised how the car behave in general. Kasperczyk - easy to drive from the very beginning, you jump in and feel the car immediately. Wróblewski - you can feel low weight of the car, as 2WD, but 4x4 helps a lot and gives stability. Both saying that it is perfect step between 2WD and Rally2 and regrets that similar option wasn't available few years ago, when they started with R5.

I was on the test ;) and from our point of view (I mean specators/media - guys watching cars next to the road) it is very nice car. It looks and sounds very nicely. After the ride I can not say much, because I am not a rally driver. But I was impressed how the car took the muddy section.

[Sulland]

Is the Rally3 using the same Pirellis as the Rally2, or a different one?

[ictus]

What did the drivers interviewed in the Motossport.com video say (Kaperczyk and Wroblewski)
pretty much what you just wrote ;) Most of the drivers were suprised by the ease of adapting to this car right from the first kilometers, they also said the suspension does a good job

[Tom K]

Is the Rally3 using the same Pirellis as the Rally2, or a different one?

I saw Sottozerro for gravel/ice stage and Cinturato for circuit.

[ictus]

Is the Rally3 using the same Pirellis as the Rally2, or a different one?
I guess so... in the appendix J you can see that the same rims are allowed for both classes - 6"X15"

[pantealex]

If Homologated 1 March, they need to start to show off what it can do in different rallies.
I was hoping they could run it as coursecar in Arctic Rally, but maybe too late.



FIA has no March homologation day...

Next one is in April but maybe it was homologated in January.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/voiturescomplet_2021_27.01.2021.pdf

No Rally3.

[pantealex]

Is the Rally3 using the same Pirellis as the Rally2, or a different one?

WRC Arctic Rally has only 1 tyre for all 4wd cars, so even WRC uses same one than Rally3

Gravel one could be different type but size is same what WRC cars use, 205/15"

[Sulland]

So guessing FIA have quarterly homologation dates. Is next one 1 april then?

[pantealex]

Next Finnish Championship event O.K Auto ralli (March 5-6th) has entry from

M-Sport Poland Generic:


Ken Törn Ford Fiesta

(Class6: newWRC, R-GT, Rally3 + other FIA spec even without valid homologations)

[Sulland]

(Class6: newWRC, R-GT, Rally3 + other FIA spec even without valid homologations)

FIA should have a class like that, so factories and tuners could test against the top opposition, in the last stage before homologation.
Does other nations hve a class like this in their system, or is Finland alone?

[Andre Oliveira]

On that date, car allready homologated.

[Andre Oliveira]

Some clips and pics of last two days of test in Poland by Ken Torn

https://www.facebook.com/odcinkitestowe/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu8IVuhWQAQ_-hY?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu8IVupXIAIq0sf?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eu8IVuvXEAABzKx?format=jpg&name=medium

[Sulland]

Ok, we are getting close to debut for the Rally3 class.
Looking at the startlist, what cars will the new Fiesta match when we talk times?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/67939-sm-ok-auto-ralli-2021/
R4 mini, GroupN, N5, or rally4?
Make your guesstimates!

[ictus]

Ok, we are getting close to debut for the Rally3 class.
Looking at the startlist, what cars will the new Fiesta match when we talk times?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/67939-sm-ok-auto-ralli-2021/
R4 mini, GroupN, N5, or rally4?
Make your guesstimates!

I'm preety sure that with that driver it will be in the top half of the R5's

[AnttiL]

Ok, we are getting close to debut for the Rally3 class.
Looking at the startlist, what cars will the new Fiesta match when we talk times?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/67939-sm-ok-auto-ralli-2021/
R4 mini, GroupN, N5, or rally4?
Make your guesstimates!

The Rally2Kit Mini and N5 car are not in hands of really fast drivers so the comparisons won't be reasonable. However, it will be interesting to see the pace against the Mitsubishis, since we have good data from last year when Tahko was driving the Rally2Kit Mini and being close to the Mitsubishis.

My guess is that the Rally3 car will very close to the Mitsubishis. 2 s/km slower than fastest Rally2 car.

[Andre Oliveira]

Torn / Taniel on snow: https://twitter.com/ewrcresults/status/1367554873831673859?s=21

[ictus]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CMAiFgyD1-K/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
On board on snow with Ken Torn

[AnttiL]

First stage time for Rally3 car. The Class 2 cars are Mitsubishis, just a bit slower than them

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EvyIotlWgAMMugV?format=png&name=medium

EDIT: a quite fast stage.

[Kenneth]

Imo it's expected results so far on this type of roads.

[Ha3aP]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/67939-sm-ok-auto-ralli-2021/?s=319755

[PLuto]

Official results of SM O.K. Auto-Ralli - https://www.rallism.fi/content/fi/3/20238/Liveseuranta.html

Live stream from stages - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyrWYmmmd2o

[ictus]

So far only marginally faster than rally4, but guess it's quite a fast rally so it was expected

[Sulland]

Looks a bit like the stages are nice and flowing, and not much mickey mouse and start and stop.

If that is so, it explaines little difference btw the Rally3 and Rally4 cars.

[Sulland]

Seemed like Torn fine tuned some settings, since he got closer to the front last couple of stages.

Ok debut, but guess it is more to be gained once drivers get to know the possibilities of the car.

[Jarek Z]

End of the rally. Ken Torn and his new Fiesta finished in the 11th position overall, just 17 seconds behind the best Mitsubishi Lancer and 41 seconds faster than the best Rally4 car. Not bad!

[Mirek]

IMHO Quite good debut.

We can not expect miracles becuase the power is reasonably limited. I guess the car is more fun to drive than the Gr. N cars because it is much lighter but the deficit of some 80 Hp or so is still there. I think that the low weight will play more important role in twistier events.

[dimviii]

its not a bad result,but was the n4 drivers as good as Torn?

[Jarek Z]

I don't know if it was posted here or not - a short video from Ken Torn's tests in Poland from February:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7BDHzKQLA

[Jarek Z]

6 photos from SM O.K. Auto-Ralli:
https://www.facebook.com/MSportPoland/photos/pcb.467168618052302/467168471385650/?type=3&theater

[pantealex]

its not a bad result,but was the n4 drivers as good as Torn?

As fast as Torn on Finnish roads.

Also SM2 Mitsu has bit bigger restrictor than old FIA-N + they can use E85 fuel.

Also Rally4 winner Pajari (JWRC driver) was driving on his "home roads"

[pantealex]

6 photos from SM O.K. Auto-Ralli:
https://www.facebook.com/MSportPoland/photos/pcb.467168618052302/467168471385650/?type=3&theater

3/6 is taken by me.
Also that crossing to left video on Twitter is from my phone.

Happy to help MSport Poland.

[Mirek]

Any impressions?

[Jarek Z]

3/6 is taken by me.
Also that crossing to left video on Twitter is from my phone.

Do they pay a lot? :D

[br21]

Today there was Msport Rally3 drive day in Finland. Torn was driving with some invited guests, later some of them drove themselves on ice track.

[pantealex]

Any impressions?

Welll, I hate old Mitsubishis...

Sound of Fiesta Rally3 is very bad.

But otherwise I liked it. Smooth. Didn´t feel like Rally4/R2, more like real 4wd.

[pantealex]

Today there was Msport Rally3 drive day in Finland. Torn was driving with some invited guests, later some of them drove themselves on ice track.


JWRC drivers Pajari and Joona were driving on ice. (br21 knows it but for others)

Finland has at least 2 serious buyers if car is allowed for SM2 next year.

[Sulland]

12 sold so far.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/fiesta-rally3-debut-a-mission-accomplished/?fbclid=IwAR3nS-wlHVrBQ43OGbTETpi25wLm9hi6PUQi5Wv4qvoraWqSyKwy7XWE A0E

Soundwise it reminded me of the Tommi Makinen Evos GrA, that he won in. Low rpm and a lot of grunt.
Have not seen the max hp/max torque chart of the car, so dont know the numbers.

But if that is how it is set up, it could also mean low maint cost.

[Mirek]

Witht such a small restrictor it can't rew much.

[Andre Oliveira]

Touquet entries have Fourmaux / Jamoul without car mention... maybe debut on tarmac of Rally3

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ObYon0ivUrloJYtYmBc00KhFOzsk_xuu/view?fbclid=IwAR2SulYMPtJVln1HhnHH3Z_-oZN1IJElS_WRTXb7SprC0S6Q2JK5mwsESAk

[ictus]

Video from the rally debaut of the Fiesta Rally3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZo-5CgBSyM

[Alpine-110]

Who will be next Rally3 make?

[Kenneth]

My guess is Peugeot/Opel, then next year Hyundai and Renault.

[Sulland]

Proton Iriz R5 has still not become a success. I am guessing there are several reasons for that.

Could that car be detuned to a Rally3 car?
Is there any technical or other reasons why a plan like that could not be done and be homologated?

[AnttiL]

Proton Iriz R5 has still not become a success. I am guessing there are several reasons for that.

Could that car be detuned to a Rally3 car?


No

[Sulland]

No

Why?

[Kenneth]

I suppose it would be much cheaper to and much more efficient to just built new car than detune Rally2. It just doesn't make any sense.

[Mirek]

Detune literally means to build a new car. Very few things can be used from Rally2 in Rally3.

[pantealex]

My guess is Peugeot/Opel, then next year Hyundai and Renault.

All those 4 will not come before Toyota.

(mark my words)

[Kenneth]

Didn't Toyota claim that they are working purely on Rally1 and they will start to work on Rally2 and Rally3 only after? Meanwhile I'm pretty sure that all 3 are already in some phase of developing of Rally3 car.

[Sulland]

Detune literally means to build a new car. Very few things can be used from Rally2 in Rally3.

Ok, but what parts could be carried over?

- Chassis
- Gearbox
- Engine with 30 mm restrictor.
- Suspension
- Rest of drivetrain
- Other parts

pls, simple yes/no answers.
If no, pls explain why.

[Mirek]

Rally3 and Rally2 are made according to different rules and in completely different price tag. If their major parts would be interchangeable the Rally3 would cost over 200 thousand Euro and not half of that. I don't have time to study both regulations in deep but for sure nothing major is interchangeable. The engine is different, the gearbox is made for lower power/torque, the drivetrain as well, the driveshafts have different length. Suspension has different dimensions simply because Rally3 does not have wide track etc etc.

[pantealex]

Sulland:

Please tell which Rally3 has 1.6T engine ?


Remember that R2/Rally4 with 4WD = Rally3

So your logic says that R5/Rally2 can be changed to Rally4 also if you take 4WD system off

[Sulland]

None so far, but the rules allows for it.

Toyota will use 1600, if rumors are correct.

And the "must be" Rally4 --> Rally3 principle was left when FIA allowed 1620 ccm in Rally3, was it not?'

But I am guessing that Renault and Peugeot will use their Rally4 engines in their Rally3 cars.
But Pug could in principle take their 208 T16 R5 engine and modify it to a 30 mm restrictor, or am I mistaken?

If it is smart or not is another discussion, I was just thinking possibilities from a tech/rules point of view.

[Humber]

Will the Fiesta Rally 3 be homologated as right hand steer for the UK? (in addition to left hand steer)

[TWRC]

None so far, but the rules allows for it.

Toyota will use 1600, if rumors are correct.

And the "must be" Rally4 --> Rally3 principle was left when FIA allowed 1620 ccm in Rally3, was it not?'

But I am guessing that Renault and Peugeot will use their Rally4 engines in their Rally3 cars.
But Pug could in principle take their 208 T16 R5 engine and modify it to a 30 mm restrictor, or am I mistaken?

If it is smart or not is another discussion, I was just thinking possibilities from a tech/rules point of view.

I think any of the 1.6 engines PSA has/had (DS3 R3, DS3 R5/208 T16, C3 R5) could be used, but any of these would require a heavy redesign due to different restrictor/electronics/etc, so might as well start from scratch on it, and maybe use some parts from the existing designs. Also the older ones were homologated 7-8 years ago, so homologation time for the engine could be an issue as well.

[Mirek]

No, EP6 engine family is out of question for Rally3.

If I am not mistaken you can not use an engine which is not used in the particular vehicle family in stock production. There is no EP6-powered 208 since the coming of the current generation.

[RS]

Any chance to see a Fabia Rally3? They have their fancy new big premises to make use of and new Fabia has a 1.5 TSI engine..

[Mirek]

I hope so...

[Andre Oliveira]

First deliver to Topp-Cars Rally Team (Hungary)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExRJHx-XAAEt74R?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExRJ-5qXMAAD3Q3?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExRJ-5oXIAcFF1Q?format=jpg&name=medium

[Jarek Z]

Maciej Woda from M-Sport Poland says that 20 cars will be delivered to customers before this summer:
https://www.fiaerc.com/89075/

[Steve Boyd]

Will the Fiesta Rally 3 be homologated as right hand steer for the UK? (in addition to left hand steer)

I think that's very unlikely. British drivers who use a Rally 3 car will be those that want to progress in international events where all of the cars are left-hand drive so they'll want a left-hand drive Rally 3 car to gain experience. Rally 3 cars won't be competitive in the class they have to run in on UK national events so I doubt you'll see any of them there.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

GR Yaris AP4 is running - cant be far of the Rally3.

https://twitter.com/TGR_AUS/status/1374873383511289859?s=20

[AnttiL]

GR Yaris AP4 is running - cant be far of the Rally3.

https://twitter.com/TGR_AUS/status/1374873383511289859?s=20

AP4 car has more freedom within the parts to be used. Spec-wise it’s closer to Rally2.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

AP4 car has more freedom within the parts to be used. Spec-wise it’s closer to Rally2.

Yes, I mean the Rally3 version cant be long in coming as its a rally-ready base car and been pretty easy to produce the AP4.

Toyota should be able to build a Rally3 version quickly whenever they like as its much a simpler car than the AP4.

[wyler]

rumors for fiesta rally3 to show his tarmac pace at rally San Remo

[PLuto]

rumors for fiesta rally3 to show his tarmac pace at rally San Remo

It is not rumour, it was confirmed by Maciej Woda. With Tom Kristensson.

[wyler]

It is not rumour, it was confirmed by Maciej Woda. With Tom Kristensson.

nice!

[PLuto]

Also confirmed that Ken Torn will do all 8 ERC rounds with that car this year.

[AnttiL]

Yes, I mean the Rally3 version cant be long in coming as its a rally-ready base car and been pretty easy to produce the AP4.

Toyota should be able to build a Rally3 version quickly whenever they like as its much a simpler car than the AP4.

Rally3 cars may be simpler, but there's a lot of decisions to make into the homologation in order to make sure they've made the right choices. Developing a car that is expected to sell in high numbers is more difficult than building a single car at your workshop. Building the car doesn't take Toyota long, but testing and homologating will take time.

Anyway, it's good to hear that the many things on the Yaris GR are made "rallying in mind".

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExaPvOQWYAMf0Z-?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExaPvNQWUAInUQa?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExaPvNPWEAYt0Gf?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExaPvNPWEAYt0Gf?format=jpg&name=large

It would have looked so much better with bigger wheels! ;)

... but on the other hand, there is more space for sponsors on the rear side ;)

[Mirek]

It would have looked so much better with bigger wheels! ;)

It would be so much more expensive with bigger wheels ;)

[RS]

That one is running extremely low ride height.

[Andre Oliveira]

Another one delivered to Hungary. Berenyiracing (Hungarian Police Rallye Team).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExcSEvZWQAg9pHX?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExcSEvYXMAI5E9Q?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExcSEvVWQAQhFml?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally3 cars may be simpler, but there's a lot of decisions to make into the homologation in order to make sure they've made the right choices. Developing a car that is expected to sell in high numbers is more difficult than building a single car at your workshop. Building the car doesn't take Toyota long, but testing and homologating will take time.

Anyway, it's good to hear that the many things on the Yaris GR are made "rallying in mind".

If M-Sport can do it then Toyota GR have no excuses.

They also have the ready-made base car and all the publicity that has received since it's launch. If they dont get the Rally3 ready soon most of the sales will be gone to the Fiesta.

[AnttiL]

If M-Sport can do it then Toyota GR have no excuses.

They also have the ready-made base car and all the publicity that has received since it's launch. If they dont get the Rally3 ready soon most of the sales will be gone to the Fiesta.

M-Sport has a whole department for lower-class cars, TGR has only the WRC department.

But Latvala said that they will likely do Rally3 before Rally2.

[pantealex]

If M-Sport can do it then Toyota GR have no excuses.

They also have the ready-made base car and all the publicity that has received since it's launch. If they dont get the Rally3 ready soon most of the sales will be gone to the Fiesta.

With R5 most of sales went to Fiesta (beginning)
Now it´s not like that anymore.

For M-Sport sake I hope their Rally3 is as fast as others.

[Mirek]

If M-Sport can do it then Toyota GR have no excuses.

They also have the ready-made base car and all the publicity that has received since it's launch. If they dont get the Rally3 ready soon most of the sales will be gone to the Fiesta.

M-Sport is alive from selling cars. The works teams are not. They don't need to sell any private cars to exist.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exlg35jXEAUbuTN?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exlg35qWEAEUrU-?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exlg35uXAAAlvVD?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/166986587_4382412141788179_1136923071119720220_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=X30SwweqV9UAX-r6cDS&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-2.fna&oh=999789a3b45b5b7577d59ffa73432ba3&oe=6087A354
https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/166832723_4382412178454842_6406397340436574022_o.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=b9115d&_nc_ohc=ahx42iiSwCIAX8w354_&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-1.fna&oh=56bfee8175918099b6511e059d15ec20&oe=6086310C

[Andre Oliveira]

Ford Fiesta Rally3 officially homologated

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExpFzj7XEAA3sYm?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExpFzj0XAAAlVpY?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExpFzjzWUAMwQKq?format=jpg&name=large

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great job M-Sport. If the other Manu's dont follow soon then all the more sales for M-Sport and they'll deserve them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport is alive from selling cars. The works teams are not. They don't need to sell any private cars to exist.

For the future of rallying I hope they think of more than just themselves. Plus sales of private R5/ Rally2 cars hasnt hurt them.

It's also given some work to old motorsport divisions and so could Rally3.

[the sniper]

What's the link to the MiG? Someone just showing off their photoshop skills...? :D

[Andre Oliveira]

Igor Widłak start in Azores and then Poland at ERC.

https://rallyandrace.pl/z-evo-x-do-forda-fiesty-rally3/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Exq54OlWYAQ3iPu?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

What's the link to the MiG? Someone just showing off their photoshop skills...? :D

It's a historical reference. The logo on the side of the plane belongs to the No. 303 Squadron that fought in the Battle of Britain during World War II. The squadron was formed by Polish pilots and they claimed the largest number of aircraft shot down of all fighter squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain. They shot down 126 German aircrafts.

Two useful links for history lovers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Squadron_RAF

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/Mjg3WDU1MA==/z/a2cAAOSwr81UQFfE/$/Polish-303-Fighters-Squadron-Warszawski-Dywizjon-303-Urbanowicz-_57.jpg

[Mirek]

For the future of rallying I hope they think of more than just themselves. Plus sales of private R5/ Rally2 cars hasnt hurt them.

It's also given some work to old motorsport divisions and so could Rally3.

M-Sport needs to rush because their best sale option, on which they are absolutely dependent, is to be the first and sell quickly before other and often better cars arrive and by being first they can also take various one make cups or support championship etc. The real manufacturer teams usually take more time because they can and because for them top performance is much more importnant than early sales.

If others were rushing as M-Sport it wouldn't help them. They want to be the best and the car which comes first usually isn't the best simply because others can learn from experience and from studying the competitor's cars.

And there is one more point. If others were rushing and taking part of M-Sport business it could mean that M-Sport may leave for another sport. In the end it's good for us if M-Sport is given some business everytime because that's what keeps them involved.

[the sniper]

It's a historical reference. The logo on the side of the plane belongs to the No. 303 Squadron that fought in the Battle of Britain during World War II. The squadron was formed by Polish pilots and they claimed the largest number of aircraft shot down of all fighter squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain. They shot down 126 German aircrafts.

Two useful links for history lovers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._303_Squadron_RAF

https://www.picclickimg.com/00/s/Mjg3WDU1MA==/z/a2cAAOSwr81UQFfE/$/Polish-303-Fighters-Squadron-Warszawski-Dywizjon-303-Urbanowicz-_57.jpg

Ah, I hadn't made the connection with the Squadron! Though I was familiar with the Polish having served in the RAF, as their contribution has been better recognised here in recent times. Nice.

[Jarek Z]

Ford Fiesta Rally3 will make its WRC debut at the Croatia Rally in April:
https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc3/fiesta-rally3-set-for-croatia-wrc-debut/

[Damian Baldi]

I think that Peugeot and Renault could be the next ones with rally3 cars, as they have Clio and 208 models for rally4.

[Jarek Z]

Tom Kristensson is going to give Ford Fiesta Rally3 its rally debut in Italy. Look at no. 57 on the entry list for Sanremo:
https://www.rallylink.it/pdf/2021/sanremo.pdf

[Sulland]

I think that Peugeot and Renault could be the next ones with rally3 cars, as they have Clio and 208 models for rally4.

If Renault plans to go 4wd, I guess they could be next out with Rally3.

Toyota that has a Rally2 plan, could easily go Rally3 first, and gather data, then Rally2.

[Jarek Z]

New car for Lukasz Byskiniewicz for 2021 Polish rally championship. Photos and video here:
https://pl.motorsport.com/rsmp/news/byskiniewicz-w-fiescie-rally3/6098025/

[Andre Oliveira]

Aga Załęcka

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyTyJnJXAAAfkjI?format=jpg&name=large

[Jarek Z]

Ford Fiesta Rally3 with Hungarian driver László Zoltán is on the entry list of Croatia Rally (#67):
https://www.ewrc-results.com/entries/67214-croatia-rally-2021/

[Sulland]

The coming few WRC and ERC rallies will exiting for many drivers and teams from national series. They will be studying the results carefully, to figure out what speeds the Fiesta will do on gravel and asphalt.

If you look at early rental prices btw rally2 and 3, it is quite a difference per SS km.

[Jarek Z]

Lukasz Byskiniewicz is testing his brand new Fiesta Rally3 on gravel:
https://inmotorsport.tv/lang.pl/no/movie/182

[Co-driven]

If you look at early rental prices btw rally2 and 3, it is quite a difference per SS km.

What are the prices per km for the Rally3?

[Jarek Z]

Tom Kristensson is testing his brand new Fiesta Rally3 on tarmac:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YlWZE1zBb0

[Andre Oliveira]

Tom in Sanremo:

SS1: 32th overall, behind 2 Rally4 and on front of 14 Rally2.

SS2: 38th overall, behind 1 RGT and 1 Rally4, on front of 9 Rally2.

SS3: 30th overall, on front of 13 Rally2.

SS4: 30th overall, on front of 9 Rally2.

Retired cause OTL (over the time limit) when was 28th overall, on front of 11 Rally2.


Quite good no?

[wyler]

Tom in Sanremo:

SS1: 32th overall, behind 2 Rally4 and on front of 14 Rally2.

SS2: 38th overall, behind 1 RGT and 1 Rally4, on front of 9 Rally2.

SS3: 30th overall, on front of 13 Rally2.

SS4: 30th overall, on front of 9 Rally2.

Retired cause OTL (over the time limit) when was 28th overall, on front of 11 Rally2.


Quite good no?

He hit with the rear and bended the rear axle.

[Andre Oliveira]

Yes, but they miss the time. Not a critical damage.

https://scontent.fopo3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/171885613_4428018857227507_4920423417460678419_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=i2mJwVbj09oAX8vv0pn&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo3-1.fna&oh=7f215cdd09501c0b6c2ca5d477d1e633&oe=60994105

[Jarek Z]

Rally Sanremo was not the only event with Ford Fiesta Rally3 on the entry list this weekend. Lukasz Byskiniewicz drove the first ever event with his new car on Tech-Mol Rally in Poland. He was 5th overall - slower than Rally2 cars, but faster than all Rally4 machines. The concept of a car that fits between Rally2 and Rally4 seems to work.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/24223-tech-mol-rally-2021/

Photo:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/2jXWrpg6/s6/testy-przed-5-tech-mol-rally-1.jpg

[Andre Oliveira]

Chassis 13

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ey9NUP7WgAAOTzH?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

Daniel Nunes / Nuno Mota Ribeiro, first in Portugal

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzCtrZlWEAc3F5W?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzCtrZjWEAs4eeO?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzCtrZgWgAMjGlQ?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

Race: pro

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzQruIAUcAceXEA?format=jpg&name=medium

PSH Motorsport

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzQ-L7_UYAoEUO9?format=jpg&name=medium

Both german teams

[Jarek Z]

This week the results of Fiesta Rally3 cars are not very spectacular. Two cars finished in the 27th and 29th position in Hungary. Probably both drivers were not very fast. They were slower than some group N and Rally4 cars.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/69734-therwoolin-boldogko-rally-2021/

[Kenneth]

Yeah, according to ewrc-results it looks like both are more like gentleman drivers.

[Andre Oliveira]

Daniel Nunes in Portugal will be a good performance mesure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Notu9Ufh_KA

[Jarek Z]

Laszlo Zoltan was 41th overall in Rally Croatia. Way behind multpile Rally4 cars. Do you think that he may have been hired by Hyundai or Toyota to ruin the reputation of the new Ford? ;)

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/67214-croatia-rally-2021/

Photo:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/616715/?entry=3001662

[Andre Oliveira]

Nunes in Portugal did well. In front of Dacia Sandero R4 and two R5... and all the 208 Rally4.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/70240-rali-terras-daboboreira-2021/

[dupanton]

On gravel, the advantage of the Rally3 will be always a lot bigger compared to the rally4. So on gravel, every Rally3 should be faster than the Rally4.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/chinese-manufacturer-tipped-for-wrc-in-medium-future/?fbclid=IwAR1O8LAhThmOPxtYBv9Fk6kiFtjIP8tTke-DfxgCwp6eGylma_KksJNOfFw

[Sulland]

Rally3 is a sensible way in to rally for most new manufacturers.
good class to learn the trade of FIA, homologation, jokers, driver styles vs car setup, cost of rallies and so on and on. Smart to just be a part of the rally environmemt for a couple of years, before going for the champions league!

[Jarek Z]

Good video from last month's TECH MOL RALLY in Poland. FORD FIESTA RALLY3 in the hands of Lukasz Byskiniewicz:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZstVUl5bCo

[Jarek Z]

Fresh video from last week's Rajd Ziemi Głubczyckiej - Lukasz Byśkiniewicz and his Ford Fiesta Rally3, this time on tarmac and gravel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvFDCkpDqU

[Jarek Z]

Good gravel driving - Daniel Nunes on Rali Terras D’Aboboreira in Portugal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yTZpOX58_Y

[Jarek Z]

Another Ford Fiesta Rally3 in Poland. That's already number 4 I think. Radek Typa is going to drive it in the Polish championship. He should be a good reference point, because he is a good 2WD and 4WD driver.

Photo of the new car:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/6gpNrv70/s6/radoslaw-typa-ford-fiesta-rall.jpg

[Sulland]

Still no news on others that are planning to give Ford competition in this class?

[Jarek Z]

Another Ford Fiesta Rally3 in Poland. The driver is Kamil Bolek:
https://rallypl.com/rajdy/amic-rally-team-podwaja-sily-w-rsmp/

[Sulland]

Toyota still not decided on class for first customer car.
Wobbeling btw Rally2 and 3.

Might be smarter to go for rally3, get experience and then make a rally2 car in a few years.

Fierce competition in rally2, and possibility to do the same mistake as Hyundai, to put too little development into the rally2, and flop.
Less possibility for that in rally3.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-undecided-on-rally2-or-rally3-for-customer-program/

[Jarek Z]

Slovakian driver Vlastimil Majerčák in his Ford Fiesta Rally3 was 7th overall in RALLYE TATRY SLOVAKIA last weekend.

Final results:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/70333-rallye-tatry-slovakia-2021/

Photo:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/623832/?entry=3034560

[Humber]

Toyota still not decided on class for first customer car.
Wobbling btw Rally2 and 3.

Might be smarter to go for rally3, get experience and then make a rallyE2 car in a few years.

Fierce competition in rally2, and possibility to do the same mistake as Hyundai, to put too little development into the rally2, and flop.
Less possibility for that in rally3.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-undecided-on-rally2-or-rally3-for-customer-program/

Agree Toyota should do the 100K Euro Rally 3 first. There is such a push on at the moment with the auto-makers and regulations that Rally2 could be like the TCR circuit racers that could quickly lose status to the emerging E-TCR.

I would expect a Rally E2 category is not too far away, maybe with electric drive motors and battery with an on board charging petrol motor.

[Francis44]

Agree Toyota should do the 100K Euro Rally 3 first. There is such a push on at the moment with the auto-makers and regulations that Rally2 could be like the TCR circuit racers that could quickly lose status to the emerging E-TCR.

I would expect a Rally E2 category is not too far away, maybe with electric drive motors and battery with an on board charging petrol motor.

It is already on the cards for the next rally2 regulations that they will use a mild hybrid system.

It is mostly consensual along national competitors that that will be the way to go.

[HKSjbg]

Photo:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/623832/?entry=3034560

I still can’t decide whether I think the Rally3 Fiesta looks ungainly or not and this photo further confuses me...

Sometimes I think it looks out of proportion because the Rally4 Fiesta looks alright and the rear wing on the Rally3 upsets that balance. And then sometimes I think it doesn’t look to bad, especially here sliding through a gravel bend (on tarmac wheels!)

What does everyone else think?

[Andre Oliveira]

I like. It looks very cool.

[Jarek Z]

What does everyone else think?

My opinion is here ;)
https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?40406-Rally-3-class&p=1267266&viewfull=1#post1267266

[Jarek Z]

1966 European Rally Champion Zasada is testing his new Ford Fiesta Rally3 before Safari Rally:
https://pl.motorsport.com/wrc/news/zasada-testuje-przed-safari/6526753/

[Sulland]

I still can’t decide whether I think the Rally3 Fiesta looks ungainly or not and this photo further confuses me...

Sometimes I think it looks out of proportion because the Rally4 Fiesta looks alright and the rear wing on the Rally3 upsets that balance. And then sometimes I think it doesn’t look to bad, especially here sliding through a gravel bend (on tarmac wheels!)

What does everyone else think?

I like the roof wing on the fiesta R3.

What are the comments from the drivers of the rally3 Fiestas?
Are they happy, or are there areas they have mentioned that need to be improved?

[Jarek Z]

New livery for Ken Torn's Fiesta Rally3:
https://www.fiaerc.com/torns-erc-junior-look-revealed/

[AnttiL]

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc3/taylor-reveals-wrc-schedule-in-new-fiesta-rally3/

Molly Taylor and Seb Marshall will do Estonia, Acropolis and Finland in a Fiesta Rally3

[Sulland]

7 Rally3 cars in Poland this weekend.
Lets see how they will do it timewise vs R4 kits, rally4, rally5 and the slowest Rally2 cars.

[Sulland]

Large speed difference btw the crews. Armstrong out in front after 1st loop, Torn must have had an issue with the car. He will hopefully fix the issue and climb the lists.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/68541-orlen-rajd-polski-rally-poland-2021/?s=325698&ct=1019

But compared to other 4wd classes, apart form Rally2, the speed of Rally3 seems to be very good.

[Sulland]

Most of the Rally3 Fiestas survived Safari on first attempt, not bad really.

Will we see competition in Rally3 in 2022? Are any other firms planning to come with a car?

Renault are done with Rally4. Peugeot/Citroen/Opel, Proton or Toyota maybe?

[Andre Oliveira]

Zasada got stuck on sand. Pitty.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oscar Solberg:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5OMYB8XIAMEDsz?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Matthew Wilson, M-Sport Director and Chief Test Driver, will make the British debut of the four-wheel drive Fiesta Rally3 on the M-Sport Stages in Greystoke Forest this weekend (July 2-3).

[Sulland]

Ok so now we are halfway through 2021, and MSport Poland have sold aprox 20 cars.
When drivers and teams see that they with a good pilot they are the 2nd fastest class on the loose, and will develop more speed as teams learn to know them.

How many are sold by 31/12-21, will they reach 50?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Any info why Matt Wilson's pace dropped off on Leg 2 or were the others just getting more used to the stages ?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/71865-m-sport-stages-2021/3064844/

[Sulland]

Not sure, but impressive speed anyway.

Oscar Solberg was also very impressed with the Rally3 Fiesta. He was advising more people to try them out, and think the class will grow fast.

[HKSjbg]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-begins-work-on-yaris-rally3-car/

‘Begins work’ isn’t quite right given the content of the article but Latvala said “I think we can say Rally3 is closer than Rally2” so we know they are planning to build one, potentially a Rally2 Yaris at some point too

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting that Matt Wilson has now entered this weekend's BRC event, the Nicky Grist Stages, but in a Fiesta Rally2.

Seems a shame not to take the Rally3 car out again and show what it can do on a higher-profile UK rally...

[Sulland]

Maybe Malcolm could take the rally3 for a spin on the Nicky Grist. Would be fun!

[the sniper]

Interesting that Matt Wilson has now entered this weekend's BRC event, the Nicky Grist Stages, but in a Fiesta Rally2.

Seems a shame not to take the Rally3 car out again and show what it can do on a higher-profile UK rally...

I'd much rather see him in a Rally2. No competition in Rally 3 and any comparisons to other classes might not be too clear, as Matt isn't such a regular known quantity anymore. I'm kind of intrigued to see how he compares to the top regulars nowadays.


Maybe Malcolm could take the rally3 for a spin on the Nicky Grist. Would be fun!

No chance, entry is full! Nice 0 car though...

[Sulland]

Wilson Jr should either drive himself, or get a top notch driver to do a WRC or ERC round or two, so the real potential of the car is shown.
Need to be either a top Notch Rally2 driver, or a driver that is quick in a Rally1 car, so they are used to higher speeds than the Rally3 car can produce.

Will be important to teams and drivers now planning for 2022.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Pity Molly Taylor went off in Estonia. Täht was slow compared to her pace.

[Gordini]

Kris Meeke in Rally3 car would be fun

[skarderud]

Wilson Jr should either drive himself, or get a top notch driver to do a WRC or ERC round or two, so the real potential of the car is shown.
Need to be either a top Notch Rally2 driver, or a driver that is quick in a Rally1 car, so they are used to higher speeds than the Rally3 car can produce.

Will be important to teams and drivers now planning for 2022.Lots of drivers would do that for free, Meeke, Tidemand, Brynhildsen to mension a few.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[PLuto]

Lots of drivers would do that for free, Meeke, Tidemand, Brynhildsen to mension a few.

Maybe you will be surprised, but you are not correct...

[Jarek Z]

How Molly Taylor crashed her new Ford Fiesta Rally3 in Estonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1FNEpQQycs

[skarderud]

Nice slide by Oscar Solberg in the Rally3.http://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/61013e1b6ea23/received_4580446458660600.mp4

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Sulland]

So now it looks like teams and drivers will have 3 cars to choose from in 2022.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/renault-evaluating-a-wrc-program-in-juniors/

Who of the 2 new brands will have their car ready first?

Edit: And if Renault comes in, it will surprise me if PSA dont make a 208 Rally3.

[Gordini]

Good speed from https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/18705-lukasz-byskiniewicz/ in poland. 11 total after first day.

[pantealex]

So now it looks like teams and drivers will have 3 cars to choose from in 2022.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/renault-evaluating-a-wrc-program-in-juniors/

Who of the 2 new brands will have their car ready first?

Edit: And if Renault comes in, it will surprise me if PSA dont make a 208 Rally3.

no PSA anymore, it´s FCA nowadays. Their Rally2 is Citroen and Rally4´s are Opel and Peugeot, so Rally3 could be DS, Fiat or Lancia just for marketing reasons.

[skarderud]

no PSA anymore, it´s FCA nowadays. Their Rally2 is Citroen and Rally4´s are Opel and Peugeot, so Rally3 could be DS, Fiat or Lancia just for marketing reasons.It's not FCA/PSA, it's Stellantis:)
Its 12 brands, and a motorsportguy in charge.
Different brands in all classes inside a couple of years:)

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[pantealex]

It's not FCA/PSA, it's Stellantis:)
Its 12 brands, and a motorsportguy in charge.
Different brands in all classes inside a couple of years:)



Yep! Stellantis it is, my mistake!

I really hope they will build car for all classes Rally1-5 + RGT.

[RS]

It's not FCA/PSA, it's Stellantis:)


Sounds like something the doctor should prescribe you something for.

[Jarek Z]

Good speed from https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/18705-lukasz-byskiniewicz/ in poland. 11 total after first day.

Byskiniewicz finished Rally Rzeszowski in the 10th position. Not bad!
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/69190-marma-rajd-rzeszowski-2021/
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/640860/?entry=3088456

[Sulland]

Stellantis has 2 rally4 cars, from Opel and Peugeot.
So far the 208 have sold better than the Corsa. But it was first on the market, and got a few cups that brings numbers up.

If you were to decide on who of them you should use for development of a rally3 car?
Would you go for 208, Corsa or maybe both?

[skarderud]

Or some of these others?

Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Citroën, Dodge, DS, Fiat, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Opel, Peugeot, Ram and Vauxhall.

I will guess maybe half of this brands is suitable for rallying marketingwise.

I guess different in every class, the new Stellantis boss do both rally and racing private.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Gordini]

Fiesta R3 has good potential. Torn is quicker than all R4 and grn cars.

[Mirek]

Fiesta R3 has good potential. Torn is quicker than all R4 and grn cars.

He was also very spectacular.

[Gordini]

Any infomation on test for Yaris or Clio

[rp]

Any infomation on test for Yaris or Clio

Yaris Rally3 is not coming yet...

[the sniper]

Yaris Rally3 is not coming yet...

Is it still coming ahead of a Rally2? I'm assuming so...

[pantealex]

Is it still coming ahead of a Rally2? I'm assuming so...

50/50 either WRC2 or WRC3 car (Rally2/Rally3)

Decision will be made after Rally1 is homologated.

Source JML last week in our local paper.

[Sulland]

So seems pretty sure Toyota comes with both Rally2 and 3 cars. That is splendid, they just need to decide on what to build first.

Renault comes from a bottom up approach, they have Rally5 and 4, and is now coming into the 4wd world for the first time.

Lets hope both will succeed in Rally3!

[Sulland]

I think MSport should use the window for when their car is alone on the market.

People in national series are now planning their 22 season, and for many Rally3 could be an option. But they are looking for the real potential, and that has to be demonstrated by a top driver coming down from WRC or WRC2, so they have a pedigree.

It is hard to try to talk the Rally3 up as an option, for drivers with old R5s or coming up from Rally4.
MSport need to put in Gryazin, Fourmaux or another top driver to give the car a real bashing, to show the difference to Rally4 on gravel, and to show it is a good option for gentleman drivers with old R5s they never will learn to fully utilize!

[AnttiL]

Great pace from Sami Pajari in this weekend's Finnish national rally, in his first 4WD rally. During the first six stages he was constantly faster than Group N Mitsubishis, and even faster than Riku Tahko's Hyundai R5! The roads were very fast, which generally should suit the big Mitsubishis.

Sadly the car didn't start this morning so he had to retire.

https://www.rallism.fi/content/fi/3/20238/Livetulokset.html

[AnttiL]

Latvala said in Finnish radio that Toyota won’t be having a lower class car out in 2022, earliest at late 2023

[Jarek Z]

Latvala said in Finnish radio that Toyota won’t be having a lower class car out in 2022, earliest at late 2023

Where is the "Dislike" button? ;)

[Jarek Z]

Great pace from Sami Pajari in this weekend's Finnish national rally, in his first 4WD rally. During the first six stages he was constantly faster than Group N Mitsubishis, and even faster than Riku Tahko's Hyundai R5!

Wow! He was even 7th overall on stage 6, faster than Asunmaa, Salo and Pepe Lopez!

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/73072-kokkolan-ua-60-v-ralli-sm-2021/?s=336629

https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/651488/?entry=3136776

It was a night stage. Have a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRgLoxgjExE

[ictus]

Wow! He was even 7th overall on stage 6, faster than Asunmaa, Salo and Pepe Lopez!

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/73072-kokkolan-ua-60-v-ralli-sm-2021/?s=336629

https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/651488/?entry=3136776

It was a night stage. Have a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRgLoxgjExE
He did a simular thing in a winter rally with a rally4 fiesta (6th or 7th overall on a stage in a field of more than 20 r5 cars) so it's more the skills of Sami than the brilliance of the rally3 fiesta ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Where is the "Dislike" button? ;)

It's a real shame if even those manufacturer's who claim to be really into the sport aren't rushing to support it at the lower levels.

Delay of another year or two of other Rally3 cars coming along could kill it as a viable worldwide championship catagory.

[Sulland]

Ok, so we know Toyota, due to hybrid Rally1 postpone their Rally3 project at least one year to late 2023.
They have a large team both in Finland and Germany, so to put aside a Customer Team should be possible.

Any french members or others that have heard anything on the Renault Rally3 project. They do it in the opposite direction working their way up the pyramid.

If that project also is pushed to 2023/24 Ford will have the market for one or two seasons all to themselves. MSport Poland will be very happy if that is the case.

At least up here in the gravel and snow countries many are thinking about buying a Rally3 car, to go up from rally4 or coming from an old grN or grA car in national classes. They are becoming more and more expensive to maintain, and gets beaten by modern Rally3 cars, that in total becomes cheaper to run over a seson.

[HKSjbg]

What about Hyundai? Now that their new Rally2 car is out perhaps that team have the time to take on a Rally3 project?

[Sulland]

What classes has different nations put rally3 into nationally?
In its own class, or into existing class?

[AnttiL]

Rally3 will be the designated class of SM3 in Finland next year. This year it has been just Rally4/R2 cars

[Jarek Z]

Lukasz Byskiniewicz was 10th overall and 1st in class 3 in the final results of Rally Swidnicki last week. There is still one rally to go in the Polish championship, but Byskiniewicz already won the championship of class 3. Congratulations!

Classification of class 3 (with one rally still to go):
http://www.pzm.com.pl/rajdy/2021/narastajacoRsmp/3.pdf

Final results of Rally Swidnicki:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/final/69222-rajd-swidnicki-krause-2021/

Photo of the winning car:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/image/653219/?entry=3137044&car=0

Photo of the winning crew:
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/0ZRjpyL0/s6/rsmp-wiadomosci-2021-lukasz-by-3.jpg

[Jarek Z]

What classes has different nations put rally3 into nationally?
In its own class, or into existing class?

In Poland there is a separate class 3 for such cars:
http://www.pzm.com.pl/rajdy/2021/narastajacoRsmp/3.pdf

[Jarek Z]

At 1:00 you can see what happened to the other Fiesta Rally3 in Rally Swidnicki:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF4WXQZ-yJE&t=60s

[Sulland]

Next season in 2022, Rally3 drivers can choose from 2 championship series; WRC3 and ERC Junior.

Has anyone yet signalled that they will compete in any of these series next season?

[Gordini]

Is skoda working rally3 project?

[Mirek]

Most likely not.

[Gordini]

Sorry about this!
Skoda has very best rally2.

[Andre Oliveira]

Chazel Technologie Course (France)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FCAKEIxWEAk75mF?format=jpg&name=large

[RS]

Most likely not.

Any particular reason why not?

[Mirek]

Any particular reason why not?

New Rally2

But I don't know a thing, it's just my guessing that they would not develop two cars at the same time.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

TBF, Skoda's only experience with the lower tier rally (apart from S2000/Rally2) was the Fabia R2. And it was quickly overshadowed by Fiesta and the PSA duo.. (I think)

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[Mirek]

TBF, Skoda's only experience with the lower tier rally (apart from S2000/Rally2) was the Fabia R2. And it was quickly overshadowed by Fiesta and the PSA duo.. (I think)

That's not true.

First Fabia R2 had little to do with Škoda. It was private project of Impromat Motorsport for which Škoda gave some limited support and granted FIA homologation.

Second thing is that you can't ignore the whole history of Škoda Motorsport which was all about lower tier cars until Octavia WRC. Especially in 70'-90' period I dare to say that Škoda built some of the very best lower tier cars in the world.

[Sulland]

Thats true, the 110-130 rear engined versions were winning their classes over a long periode.

But that fact only tells me they car do it again.
To be fair, the Rally3 is a middle tier car ;) in the new pyramid!

Skoda Motorsport has all needed know how to quicly put together a top notch Rally3 if they want to.
And they have a lot of tuners and so on inside their republic, or neighbours, if they would out- or insource the engineering and/or production of a new class.

[Jarek Z]

TBF, Skoda's only experience with the lower tier rally (apart from S2000/Rally2) was the Fabia R2.

Skoda has 120 years of experience in lower tier rally cars. Ever heard about Favorit or Felicia Kit Car? :)
https://www.skoda-storyboard.com/en/series/120-years-of-skoda-motorsport/

If I remember correctly Skoda won F2 trophy with Felicia Kit Car in the nineties.
https://skoda-ms.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/02/1995-rally-sweden-01-triner.jpg

[Mirek]

If I remember correctly Skoda won F2 trophy with Felicia Kit Car in the nineties.
https://skoda-ms.s3.amazonaws.com/2018/02/1995-rally-sweden-01-triner.jpg

Felicia Kit Car never won the F2 (it was second overall twice I think) but the ultra-light 1.3 litre Favorit 136L/A indeed won the 2 litre championship in 1994.

Anyway sorry for off topic.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

TBH, I was focusing to the early R-class era. But thanks for the explanation..

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

Has there been any decision made from Renault Sport on the issue of making a Rally3 car to take on Ford?

Benoit Nogier said in the beginning of August:
On the question of whether Renault would seek to join in, he added: “No stress, it’s not the moment still to make that announcement. But it’s closer and closer each day, I would say, and we are in a very good position to confirm definitely the project.”

Any news yet?

[Sulland]

MSport,have sold 31 cars in 2021 as the cars first year.
They sold 26 R5s in 2013, that was the first year of that car.

Next year I am guessing sales will go even higher, with 3 international championships to fight for.
Could be a good year for MSport Poland.

[Gordini]

So no news from Renault. 2022 will Fiesta be only car in rally3 then.
I like a Gordini Rally3 :-) next MC rally.

[Danny0405]

So no news from Renault. 2022 will Fiesta be only car in rally3 then.
I like a Gordini Rally3 :-) next MC rally.

Complicated for a manufacturer to really involve in Rally3 as it is a clear bet, not sure today that this category will succeed. All the more for Renault than they just begin in Rally4 this season.

[Andre Oliveira]

Franceschi won 3 Rally3 rallies in ERC3 Junior 2022.
Torn won JWRC season with Rally3.
Pajari can choose JWRC season too.

[Andre Oliveira]

Development test

https://www.facebook.com/2023348684342324/posts/5034320026578493/?d=n

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFHd-PVXwDMUOIf?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFHd-PPWYAA5FKV?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFHd-PYXsAIfkOo?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/fr/cp0/e15/q65/261137039_5141627209199998_1638383514238401337_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=ca434c&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=5bUhh1bkOeEAX90pV0w&tn=IpGcfMTCxH7HZ3Sr&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo4-1.fna&oh=c371a627ba1b9550ae31739637e8b83e&oe=61A97CDD

[Sulland]

From 30 mm restrictor to 31, 32 or?

[br21]

31mm

[Sulland]

With 235 hp, the Fiesta Rally3 will get closer to where the R5s started back in 2013/14. And we might see that it will be evened out btw Rally3 and Rally4 on asphalt.

Up here north, where we drive most rallies on snow and gravel, it will be a very good gapfiller, btw Rally4 and Rally2, and budget needed is far less for a season.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

With 235 hp, the Fiesta Rally3 will get closer to where the R5s started back in 2013/14. And we might see that it will be evened out btw Rally3 and Rally4 on asphalt.

Up here north, where we drive most rallies on snow and gravel, it will be a very good gapfiller, btw Rally4 and Rally2, and budget needed is far less for a season.Wait, I thought R5s were already around 280 hp..

Sent from my M2010J19CG using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

Was not the PSA first engine 270-275?

[ictus]

There was a Fiesta Rally3 in a rallysprint last weekend that run without a restrictor, and it was said it had around 260hp

[WRCStan]

€177,000 for 263hp in R4/Rally2-Kit versus €100,000 for 235hp in Rally3.

[TheFlyingTuga]

€177,000 for 263hp in R4/Rally2-Kit versus €100,000 for 235hp in Rally3.

And the Rally2-Kit usually is slower than a Rally3

[Sulland]

There was a Fiesta Rally3 in a rallysprint last weekend that run without a restrictor, and it was said it had around 260hp

was that one of the cars running in Poland?

[ictus]

Yep, that one to be exact:
2211

[Mirek]

Was not the PSA first engine 270-275?


Wait, I thought R5s were already around 280 hp..

Fiesta R5 (not an Evo) had nearly 300 Hp.


€177,000 for 263hp in R4/Rally2-Kit versus €100,000 for 235hp in Rally3.

Rally2-Kit is a dead end.

[AnttiL]

The performance of a rally car has more factors than just BHP.

[Sulland]

Fiesta R5 (not an Evo) had nearly 300 hp

The 2013 model without any jokers?

[Mirek]

The 2013 model without any jokers?

Without any jokers, yes, but there were some smaller engine modifications applied already during the first year of use and in retrospective you can't be sure what exactly was installed or not some 7-8 years ago.

[Sulland]

Ok, Mirek I stand corrected, my memory fail me, again!

How potent is the best Rally2 engine today?

[Jarek Z]

Yep, that one to be exact:
2211

That is Adam Sroka. I have just found a video from his pre-event test, where he says (in the description of the video) that the size of the restrictor is 30mm. Maybe they changed it for the rally?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDn89uaDdLQ

[Mirek]

How potent is the best Rally2 engine today?

I don't know but the peak power figure won't be that much different, probably somewhere around 310-320 Hp, the main difference is the shape of the power curve (when speaking about engines alone). When Fiesta Evo came in 2017 it offered nearly no difference in the peak power but at certain lower rpm the difference was over 30 Hp.

[Jarek Z]

M-Sport are testing Ford Fiesta Rally3 with Jon Armstrong in Hungary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUpU5vm2uEw

[Mirek]

M-Sport are testing Ford Fiesta Rally3 with Jon Armstrong in Hungary:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUpU5vm2uEw

I love it and I hope that more Rally3 cars come soon!

[Sulland]

Give your best guess on how many cars we will in the different championships for the Rally3 class.

- WRC3
- JWRC
- ERC3

[Andre Oliveira]

- 8
- 8
- 3

[pantealex]

- 8
- 8
- 3

I agree with JWRC but I believe WRC/ERC3 will have more different drivers. (Safari 21 alone had 4x Rally3 so I strongly believe way over 10 for WRC3)

[Andre Oliveira]

Well, we have one in Portugal by now too.

[Sulland]

- 8
- 8
- 3

So same 8 for the two WRC run series?

I am hoping for some more in WRC3, and at least one that has been doing ok with a Rally2 car, and dares to go down to "dominate" in the championship below.

[Andre Oliveira]

I don't think some veteran will use Rally3 in WRC3 alongside JWRC.

[Sulland]

If a driver should decide to go for a season in ERC, and would like to rent a car.

What would you gurus say would be the pricetag for a season in a Rally2 and a Rally3 car would be in ballpark figures?

[WRCStan]

No 2022 ERC3 Junior as promised by the FIA. I guess that became WRC3 Junior.

[ictus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZYegDKx6zs
a 20min Rally 3 fiesta build video

[Andre Oliveira]

50 cages

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHtSlr7WYAYFZDu?format=jpg&name=small

[ictus]

50 cages

50 Rally 3 Fiestas ;)

[pantealex]

I don't think some veteran will use Rally3 in WRC3 alongside JWRC.

https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/5795-enrico-brazzoli/
Well, I would count 56y old Monte entry as veteran ;)

[Mirek]

50 cages

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHtSlr7WYAYFZDu?format=jpg&name=small

Where are they?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/profile/5795-enrico-brazzoli/
Well, I would count 56y old Monte entry as veteran ;)

Good be wrong.

[tommeke_B]

Where are they?

https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/152-ford-fiesta-rally3/

I was surprised too. I guess quite a few of those from N°33 to 49 have been sold for the upcoming season already, so many of those cars will probably not be seen before March / April. And probably quite a few reserved for JWRC as well.

[Andre Oliveira]

I know two more to Ford Turkey (they allready have 2).

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars/152-ford-fiesta-rally3/

I was surprised too. I guess quite a few of those from N°33 to 49 have been sold for the upcoming season already, so many of those cars will probably not be seen before March / April. And probably quite a few reserved for JWRC as well.

Heard 12/15 WRC3 Junior.

[pantealex]

Where are they?

6-8 cars to RalliSM Finland. Which is more than I was expecting. Both: "fast young" and "gentleman" type of drivers. Some are going down from R5 but most up from Rally4.

[Jarek Z]

Wow! With all those numbers it seems that this Rally3 concept starts to work, doesn't it?

[ictus]

It was lacking in power a bit but with the new restricor and 240-260hp its clearly faster than gr N Lancers and Imprezas

[Sulland]

6-8 cars to RalliSM Finland. Which is more than I was expecting. Both: "fast young" and "gentleman" type of drivers. Some are going down from R5 but most up from Rally4.

Driving in national series, using a Rally3 is smart both with regard to budget, and sport, if many chooses to go for Rally3.
In buying a new car you save aprox 60% going for rally3 vs rally2.
Running budget for a season is also less than 50% of a Rally2 budget, also looking at rental prices.

That is why both youngsters and gentleman drivers are swapping to Rally3. It is still a top notch factory build rally car, that most national level drivers will have a lot of fun with!
This is especially correct if your series mostly consist of gravel and snow, where 4wd is most impotant.

[PLuto]

Lets wait. Until now Rally3 was not faster than Rally4 (but still more expensive). We will see what will happen with bigger restrictor/more power (in terms of speed, but also in terms of running costs and reliability).

[AnttiL]

Lets wait. Until now Rally3 was not faster than Rally4
Really? On tarmac maybe?

[ictus]

Lets wait. Until now Rally3 was not faster than Rally4 (but still more expensive). We will see what will happen with bigger restrictor/more power (in terms of speed, but also in terms of running costs and reliability).
I don't know where do you live or which chapionship so you follow but as far as I have seen this season rally4 was only faster on some mega smooth tarmac stages, and even then there was no real comparison as the rally3 were driven by non top drivers.
In Poland we had 2 mega fast guys in rally4's and they could not match the speed of rally3 on any tarmac rally.

[PLuto]

I don't know where do you live or which chapionship so you follow but as far as I have seen this season rally4 was only faster on some mega smooth tarmac stages, and even then there was no real comparison as the rally3 were driven by non top drivers.
In Poland we had 2 mega fast guys in rally4's and they could not match the speed of rally3 on any tarmac rally.

Ok, maybe I was too much critical. But difference between Rally3 and Rally4 was not so much. Rally3 has no chance to fight with R5 cars (only with gentleman drivers), so usually it was its own battle between few Rally3 cars and maybe group N and R4 cars. And if there was good driver in Rally4, also with them.

[AnttiL]

Ok, maybe I was too much critical. But difference between Rally3 and Rally4 was not so much. Rally3 has no chance to fight with R5 cars (only with gentleman drivers), so usually it was its own battle between few Rally3 cars and maybe group N and R4 cars. And if there was good driver in Rally4, also with them.

But that’s because it’s a new class. Give it some years, more cars turning up and it’s a great class

[HKSjbg]

It was lacking in power a bit but with the new restricor and 240-260hp its clearly faster than gr N Lancers and Imprezas

Is it really that much? I thought it was only up to ~235hp?

[Sulland]

Rally3 has no chance to fight with R5 cars (only with gentleman drivers), so usually it was its own battle between few Rally3 cars and maybe group N and R4 cars. And if there was good driver in Rally4, also with them.

It has never been meant to fight with R5/Rally2. It is meant to fill the role GrN used to have, even if it is more expensive. But it will be faster than any old GrN or GrA car, mostly due to develpment of the suspension and corner driveability due to that.

And it is in its first real year, the only thing changed on the Fiesta is 1 mm restrictor increase.
It will get faster year by year, as R5s has been.

But for drivers paying for most of the fun themselves, it is a good option.
In some countries, with few Rally2 drivers, it might even become top class to concentrate on one class to get the best competition, for both drivers and fans.

[ictus]

Is it really that much? I thought it was only up to ~235hp?
We had 2 fiestas on a rallyspirint 2 weeks ago with the new restrictors and one driver said the car was tuned on a rolling road and claimed 260hp.
You have to remember that in ralling it's allways more than the manufacturer claims ;)