Silly Season 2019 [Archive] - Page 5

Simmi

17th October 2018, 13:56

I think Loeb was strongly rumored to do 3-4 events in 2019.

I keep reading this. But where did it actually come from? Daniel Elena said himself they were done at WRC level. And having Ogier and Lappi at Citroen completely removes the PR-driven need to put Loeb in the car. It would also invite direct comparisons between Ogier and Loeb in the same car. I'm not sure if I was Citroen that I'd want any part of that sideshow to be honest. Just feels unnecessary.

Funded drives from Al Qassimi and Ostberg would appear more logical - as gutted as I am for Craig.

tomhlord

17th October 2018, 14:04

Same co-driver as he used on the weekend in Italy: Derek Brannigan

Thank you.

deephouse

17th October 2018, 14:09

Breen needs to get another seat elsewhere. Hyundai or M-Sport, he will be better treated there.

krissucool

17th October 2018, 14:58

Breen needs to get another seat elsewhere. Hyundai or M-Sport, he will be better treated there.

He already has a seat in M-Sport.

GigiGalliNo1

17th October 2018, 15:05

How is Tanak carrying Toyota NOT?

er88

17th October 2018, 16:55

Struggle to understand what Citroen are all about. They've been a bit of an embarrassment for years since they announced they'd re-join the WRC. Ogier has talked about how the team has been doing things by half measure for years, yet still there's an element of truth in that if they only run a two car team. Lappi might struggle badly and then they've got no insurance policy like Breen or Ostberg there to score points.

Dont get me wrong, it's great they've finally decided to invest some money in 2/3s of a proper driver line-up, but are they just not that bothered about the manufacturers championship? And surely Ogier would want another strong-ish team mate considering how well Tanak and Evans helped him last year by taking pts off his rivals for the title - compared to this year where Evans has been terrible and Suninen is in development.

Once again they're scrounging off Abu Dhabi or waiting to see if Ostberg can come with a big budget. They're not the private team, it's Msport who should be the ones really needing help like that. And it's Malcolm who needs it now more than ever, considering Red Bull have followed Ogier to Citroen too. Breen and Paddon aren't going to bring big budgets if they go to Msport, Evans has little to no budget, and Ostberg will only work with Malcolm again if he has to.

dimviii

17th October 2018, 17:46

Struggle to understand .

as you read Jacksons today tweet about Lappi,you will stop have all these doubts (your doubts are valid)

Hartusvuori

17th October 2018, 18:44

"Putting faith in young drivers has long been hard-wired in the DNA of our brand" so says Budar more than likely letting Craig Breen go...

Lappi is born 1991, Breen 1990. Neither are exactly young (in this context) nor lacking experience.

deephouse

17th October 2018, 18:46

Breen was in the wrong team. He couldn't progress as much as the finn.

go mads

17th October 2018, 18:59

There is actually some fact to this, without Tänak they would not have a single win this year and Lappi and Latvala combined would not have as many fastest stage times as Neuville and Ogier have on their own, I`m not saying the car is bad, it`s definitely not, but I wouldn`t say it`s by far the best either, the main difference seems to be Tänak and this is something he started to show last year in M-sport as well..

Wrong. Without Tanak, latvala would've won in Turkey.

deephouse

17th October 2018, 19:10

Wrong again. WITH Tanak we have 3 way battle (it's hard for him but it's still possible). Hope M-Sport find another driver that challenge next year for that also and that it will be even closer fights...

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 19:13

Struggle to understand what Citroen are all about.
I think hiring a 5-time champ together with a proven rally winner is quite understandable move. And getting Ogier onboard has probably automatically meant that the line-up will be two cars only. And securing the services of Ogier has also secured the future of the team. So all in all Citroen did pretty well this silly season.

tomhlord

17th October 2018, 19:27

mknight

17th October 2018, 19:36

Well Msport is first and foremost a business, not a money-sink PR venture like Toyota or Hyundai.

That said they did "paydrivers and no development" also in 2005 and then the 2006 car was very good. Lately you could also say the same about 2016 before 2017.

er88

17th October 2018, 19:37

I think hiring a 5-time champ together with a proven rally winner is quite understandable move. And getting Ogier onboard has probably automatically meant that the line-up will be two cars only. And securing the services of Ogier has also secured the future of the team. So all in all Citroen did pretty well this silly season.That's all well and good and I'm glad about that, it's a positive step but it's still not a full team yet. They've not really had that since they returned to the sport. Really hope they can run a 3rd car regularly even if it is just Ostberg bringing budget.

RAS007

17th October 2018, 19:49

Can't help but think M-Sport are now in a downward spiral towards little car development and purely pay drivers, once again. A shame. Reminds me of a few years back, 2011 and 2012 winning rallies with some Ford backing and a promising new car (akin to '17 and '18, although not as much Ford $$$), 2013 bringing some promising talent to podiums (could be Breen and Paddon in '19), '14, '15, '16 not much to write home about.

Hard to disagree with this; I can't understand why Ford won't come in with full backing, or why M-Sport have proved incapable of finding a title sponsor. Maybe they don't have a title sponsor because they don't have full manufacturer backing, or maybe they don't have full manufacturer backing because they don't have a title sponsor......

Fast Eddie WRC

17th October 2018, 19:53

It's a quite a gamble by Toyota. They have effectively swapped 4th in the WDC Lappi for a Citroen driver... and chose the old, fast but crash-prone Meeke over the young solid-scoring Breen.

Breen as a like-for-like swap for Lappi would've been the obvious move. And Meeke to M-Sport would've brought them a potential winner.

Makinen must have his reasons so we'll have to see what he says and then how it turns out.

M-Sport now how very limited options of who is available and who they could even want, so as to make continuing really worthwhile.

Tarmop

17th October 2018, 20:05

Meeke to M-Sport could`ve been too much too handle, financially.

mknight

17th October 2018, 20:07

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 20:08

https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000005867366.html

Interview with Lappi about the Citroen move. I don't know, maybe I read too much into it, but it's not exactly a compliment towards Mäkinen when Lappi says that "Citroen wanted me there ... the interest the team principal has shown towards me is motivating".

And it also becomes clear that moneywise Toyota couldn't (or didn't want to) match the offer Citroen had made.

itix

17th October 2018, 20:10

A super funny question I saw on Toyotas FB regarding Meekes signing
"are you putting the livery upside down on his car so the sponsor logos can be read?" ;)

Hope he didn't get a multi year contract like Mikkelsen...

AnttiL

17th October 2018, 20:17

Meeke has one year contract at Toyota
Lappi has two year contract at Citroen

mknight

17th October 2018, 20:24

Two year contract is normal (lots of unexpected things can happen... like you know, leading 2 rallies when the car stops working by itself ;) )

One year contract is super-risky for the driver (for the reason listed above) and team would do it only if they weren't really sure about the driver, like Toyota did with Latvala last year.
Looks like it won't be such "no pressure" drive for Meeke in the end.

itix

17th October 2018, 20:36

Meeke has one year contract at Toyota
Lappi has two year contract at CitroenSo Mäkinen hasn't lost all of his brain cells. Good.
In the unlikely case he might finally do a Tänak and stop crashing, they can extend and in the very likely case that he will ruin their budget too, they can sack him for good and we can get some young talent that actually deserve to be there.

Fast Eddie WRC

17th October 2018, 20:38

@MadsOstberg
“A pessimist sees the difficulty*in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.”*
- W. Churchill #WRC #fightingviking #SillySeason
📸 Tim Preston https://t.co/DH10Q28uAN

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 20:45

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 20:47

I smirk. Meeke takes the seat that Breen, Otsberg, Sordo, Paddon, Evans would give their manhood for.

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 20:53

So Mäkinen hasn't lost all of his brain cells. Good.
In the unlikely case he might finally do a Tänak and stop crashing, they can extend and in the very likely case that he will ruin their budget too, they can sack him for good and we can get some young talent that actually deserve to be there.

bitter little man. what u going to say when Ogier or Lappi starts chucking the C3 into the scenery trying to screw a stage time out of it?

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 20:54

Tarmop

17th October 2018, 20:54

IF he is paid (much)..and if he accepts that this could be his last season, then yeah, no pressure. But if he wants to have a job in 2020 or not to be sacked in 2019 then he cant`t crash and has to be minimally no.2 in Toyota.

And stop your nonsense about how bad the C3 is, it isn`t, proved by all who have driven it. It`s mostly about the drivers and bad managment. If you take away current top 3, who can perform constantly well on every round, then you could say that all the cars are bad. Without

EstWRC

17th October 2018, 21:05

you really bother replying to him?

he sees all the fault in others but none in Meeke.

its getting really ridiculous, actually it was already but he has gone even beyond

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 21:09

Not all would take it for one year and not all don`t offer so much PR. Like today`s possible off has given more talk than him joining.

possible... the trolls are looking for a missing sticker on the wind shield

but maybe little amuses the simple.

Tarmop

17th October 2018, 21:12

Get your quotes right! BTW, google trolling....you are setting book sample.

And it is missing on some photos and is there on some. Could be nothing, could be the reason, on the picture there`s a cracked all live windscreen..

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 21:13

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 21:21

I smirk. Meeke takes the seat that Breen, Otsberg, Sordo, Paddon, Evans would give their manhood for.

It's OSTBERG for christ sake. Smirk less if that causes it.

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 21:21

you really bother replying to him?

he sees all the fault in others but none in Meeke.

its getting really ridiculous, actually it was already but he has gone even beyond

nothing I say is wrong. I specialise in truth. others just take a little longer to compute..

the truth passes through three stages.
first, it is ridiculed.
second, it is violently opposed.
third, it is accepted as being self-evident

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 21:23

It's OSTBERG for christ sake. Smirk less if that causes it.
lol.. I love winding you lot up!

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 21:25

nothing I say is wrong.
Indeed.

Otsberg

tomhlord

17th October 2018, 21:27

The Citroen has gone through some major changes, specifically to make it easier on the limit. It started life with a weird torque split, for example. For me, it was rough around the edges to start with but has been improved through its development. I expect the combination of Ogier and Citroen to be challenging for another title in 2019.

tomhlord

17th October 2018, 21:30

Lately you could also say the same about 2016 before 2017.

I did.

tomhlord

17th October 2018, 21:32

Hard to disagree with this; I can't understand why Ford won't come in with full backing, or why M-Sport have proved incapable of finding a title sponsor. Maybe they don't have a title sponsor because they don't have full manufacturer backing, or maybe they don't have full manufacturer backing because they don't have a title sponsor......

The answer to this predicament is both simple and extraordinarly complicated. M-Sport need to convince a manufacturer other than Ford to use them for a WRC entry. Might be impossible, but that's the only way.

mknight

17th October 2018, 21:43

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Tarmop

17th October 2018, 21:58

The answer to this predicament is both simple and extraordinarly complicated. M-Sport need to convince a manufacturer other than Ford to use them for a WRC entry. Might be impossible, but that's the only way.

But who? Would have to be a major manuf, especially popular in EU, have affordable cars, especially hatchbacks and can't have sister brands already in competing. Mini ( we know how that went) and Renault i would say, only ones. MAYBE MB A-class, bot they are a premium brand an already on the circuits.

AndyRAC

17th October 2018, 22:03

Hard to disagree with this; I can't understand why Ford won't come in with full backing, or why M-Sport have proved incapable of finding a title sponsor. Maybe they don't have a title sponsor because they don't have full manufacturer backing, or maybe they don't have full manufacturer backing because they don't have a title sponsor......

Because Ford aren't particularly bothered about the WRC. Nascar/IMSA/WEC is their priority - it really is that simple. As for finding sponsorship, it's a competitive market out there; far bigger & more successful sports also have issues getting deals.

sollitt

17th October 2018, 22:26

Sure it's a gamble. But since they have the money and 2 other "reliable" drivers (I put it in " " cause of Latvala), it's not such a big one. As Tommi said it will definitely give PR for both wins and crashes.
Imo the most "risky" part is that they prbly alienated Lappi, which could turn into a Ogier-Citroen kind of situation. When Lappi would not really want to go back to Toyota in 3-5 years even when it's the most logical option like Ogier did with Citroen before 2017 and 2018.I agree largely with this post. But I believe the biggest risk lies elsewhere.
There's no question that Meeke is a hard charger and pure entertainment. However because of that it seems to have been forgotten that he was binned by Citroen because he had become a danger to both himself and everybody around him.
I hope Tommi has thought about how to mitigate that risk when deciding to give him a go.

Suggestions that it was all about the car and Ogier and Lappi will be tossing the C3 into the trees with similar regularity are ridiculous.

er88

17th October 2018, 22:27

Hard to imagine Ford will ever come back. If they didn't when they had the world champion and one of the best drivers in the history of the sport, I can't see them returning now he's gone and they're left with scraps....

wrc2017

18th October 2018, 05:11

tomhlord

18th October 2018, 09:20

But who? Would have to be a major manuf, especially popular in EU, have affordable cars, especially hatchbacks and can't have sister brands already in competing. Mini ( we know how that went) and Renault i would say, only ones. MAYBE MB A-class, bot they are a premium brand an already on the circuits.

It would have to be a Chinese company wanting to improve global perception (or newly Chinese owned, like Proton), Suzuki, Renault/Nissan/Dacia or Mazda.

Fast Eddie WRC

18th October 2018, 09:36

The problem with M-Sport going for another Manu is all the servicing/parts of all the Fords they have been selling for decades...

Tarmop

18th October 2018, 09:55

They can keep on doing it. Prodrive still makes parts for Subaru WRC, i think.

Fast Eddie WRC

18th October 2018, 11:54

They can keep on doing it. Prodrive still makes parts for Subaru WRC, i think.

Running two makes will hardly be economical. It would effectively require setting up a whole seperate business.

There's no chance of another Manu at the moment, especially with the coming of electric cars. Its not going to happen.

T16

18th October 2018, 12:00

Running two makes will hardly be economical. It would effectively require setting up a whole seperate business.

There's no chance of another Manu at the moment, especially with the coming of electric cars. Its not going to happen.

Eddie, M-Sport could very easily continue their Ford operation and run another works team. Essentially, this is what they have done by running Bentley.
They hire more people, make more space and crack on. It’s simple expansion. Nothing stopping them at all.

Fast Eddie WRC

18th October 2018, 12:06

The Ford history is too strong IMO.

Even if they would do set-up again from scratch there's no sign of a new Manu at this uncertain time.

Tarmop

18th October 2018, 12:11

There were talks about a FWD Suzuki Swift developed by M-Sport i believe...

T16

18th October 2018, 12:17

The Ford history is too strong IMO.

Even if they would do set-up again from scratch there's no sign of a new Manu at this uncertain time.

Well, that is s totally different argument... yes, of course there is no sign of another manufacturer, but to reiterate the answer to your earlier post, COULD they do it... yes, 100%. And would Mr Wilson pledge allegiance to Ford because of the love-in over the years and say 'no' to another manufacturer?... I can't see that happening IF someone else came along that wants a WRC car designing and building.

I must admit, watching the rally the other week did make me question the intentions of the rule makers and the 2017 cars. I mean, was the plan to only have works cars and are they happy with the spectators only seeing 11 or so top-spec cars? Or did they think they would have a load of privateers running them too? If it was the latter, then something has gone very wrong. On the other hand, the amount of top-spec cars is OK (ish) for the TV coverage, which doesn't rely on generating it's excitement by volume of competitors, more competition amongst a few top drivers.

It really is a shame that there are so few 2017 cars, but maybe that's just me being selfish and wanting more or the incredible buzz you get when one of these things goes past.... Like I have said before on here, we really are watching something special with these cars, they are as fast as fuchs.

Fast Eddie WRC

18th October 2018, 12:20

Back to Silly Season - Loeb now has no programme for 2019...

Tarmop

18th October 2018, 12:36

Well, they clearly said, that 2017 spec. is for manuf. only, hence the allowed registration only by a manuf. (Ostberg), WRC trophyfor the previous spec.

T16

18th October 2018, 12:49

Well, they clearly said, that 2017 spec. is for manuf. only, hence the allowed registration only by a manuf. (Ostberg), WRC trophyfor the previous spec.

So, a 2017 spec car can only be run by manufacturer team only? (Sorry if I have misunderstood). If that’s the case, what the hell are they playing at! Why not allow anyone to run one who wants to and make for a better spectating pov?

Norm75

18th October 2018, 12:57

So, a 2017 spec car can only be run by manufacturer team only? (Sorry if I have misunderstood). If that’s the case, what the hell are they playing at! Why not allow anyone to run one who wants to and make for a better spectating pov?

Safety aspect, if they do that we will probably end up with chicanes all over the place

pantealex

18th October 2018, 16:18

Meeke has one year contract at Toyota
Lappi has two year contract at Citroen

Latvala also has one year contract with Toyota

Lappi´s contract with Toyota ends 31.12.2018, so it´s possible that he can start driving C3 only 2019, but they are trying to change that.

(Source: Ari Mäntylä / Keskisuomalainen, local newspaper in Jyväskylä)

er88

18th October 2018, 16:34

Probably one of Latvala/Meeke will leave Toyota at the end of next year, that's my feeling. Whoever has the worst results could make way for Kalle if that is what is indeed earmarked. Would make sense with the 1yr contracts for Jari and Kris...

But it's an incredibly exciting and dynamic team line-up in the meantime. One that clearly many on here and in the motorsport press didn't even think was going to happen, so let's enjoy it.

Makinen has done things differently since he took control of this Toyota project, and has been slated since the get-go by many. Including me at times when questioning certain decisions/things.

Whether it was the decision to run the team out of the farm in remote Finland, taking the development away from TMG, when he overlooked 'golden boy' at the time Mikkelsen for Latvala, when he went for Tanak last season over pursuing Seb Ogier, and now going back for a second time to finally sign Meeke, to create this aggressive driver line-up. All those decisions have been criticised by many.

But honestly, Makinen can sit there and say he's got the majority of decisions right in the last few years. They got a podium on their first ever event, won the 2nd event in Sweden and saw Jari help develop that Yaris so much over the winter before Monte Carlo. Jari was up there in the championship and would've been towards the end of last season if it wasn't for the technical problems in Poland and Finland, so clearly they haven't regretted signing him. Makinen again mentioned in yesterday's press release about the great work Latvala has done for the team.

So I think Tommi now deserves the benefit of the doubt. His team lead the manufacturers by a decent margin at this stage, he's signed and helped further develop Tanak into the fastest WRC driver (imo), and as he really wants Meeke, who are any of us to argue with this signing. He clearly knows what he's doing and how he wants to run his team, and he clearly looks for certain things in his drivers.

Whether you like Meeke/Makinen/Toyota or not, what the "village team" are doing is great for the WRC. And with Japan on board I hope they'll be around for years to come to build something lasting in the sport. I'm sure that's what Makinen wants.

AnttiL

18th October 2018, 17:30

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpEUkmfhpr-/?taken-by=scottymartin__

Scott Martin trying a new 2019 custom fit helmet...

mknight

18th October 2018, 19:41

But honestly, Makinen can sit there and say he's got the majority of decisions right in the last few years. They got a podium on their first ever event, won the 2nd event in Sweden and saw Jari help develop that Yaris so much over the winter before Monte Carlo. Jari was up there in the championship and would've been towards the end of last season if it wasn't for the technical problems in Poland and Finland, so clearly they haven't regretted signing him. Makinen again mentioned in yesterday's press release about the great work Latvala has done for the team.

So I think Tommi now deserves the benefit of the doubt. His team lead the manufacturers by a decent margin at this stage, he's signed and helped further develop Tanak into the fastest WRC driver (imo), and as he really wants Meeke, who are any of us to argue with this signing. He clearly knows what he's doing and how he wants to run his team, and he clearly looks for certain things in his drivers.

For most things we can only guess what would have happened with other decisions. But to automatically assume it would be worse is wrong.

At end of 2016 they could get Ogier to drive and develop the car instead of Latvala. Seemingly he turned them down, but it also seems that Tommi did not really want him and for some reason also let him test the car on wet tarmac where it was far from ready (on purpose?). Tommi said as much himself. Why not let him test in Finland where the car was driving all the time? Would it get better with Ogier instead of Latvala? Possibly yes, but we will never know.

Mikkelsen was clearly faster than Latvala in same car in 2016 and got better results too. How would it go if he was there instead of Latvala? We will never know. Certainly hard to judge based on I20 experience where he came into a "developed" car with drivers that have been in the team for multiple years.

Similarly while getting Tanak certainly got them one fast driver, it also looks like it got Lappi to leave (if indirectly) and Latvala is back to his 2016 VW style (clearly 2nd and on half events even 3rd driver in the team with lots of confidence issues). Again Ogier was seemingly available at end of 2017, but it looked like they didn't even show real interest. If he joined instead of Tanak maybe they would have won both titles by now.... or maybe they would have no chance of either, again impossible to know.

Anyway they are charging for both titles now so can't say that he made very bad decisions and in the end results (and championships) are the only thing that matter to the outside.

denkimi

18th October 2018, 22:32

Again Ogier was seemingly available at end of 2017, but it looked like they didn't even show real interest. If he joined instead of Tanak maybe they would have won both titles by now.... or maybe they would have no chance of either, again impossible to know.

i wonder if tanak had joined toyota in 2017, would he have been world champion?

we considered the toyota to be not on the same level as the ford or the hyundai, but perhaps it was all down to inferior drivers. perhaps that toyota was then already the fastest car.

Fast Eddie WRC

18th October 2018, 23:01

i wonder if tanak had joined toyota in 2017, would he have been world champion?

I'm sure Tanak would admit that he learned a hell of a lot during 2017 from his World Champion team-mate.

tr4m

19th October 2018, 01:40

I'm sure Tanak would admit that he learned a hell of a lot during 2017 from his World Champion team-mate.

He does. At the end of last year, he gave an interview where he talked about the things he learned and said he wouldn't mind continuing to learn, but he wants equal chances (mainly same spec car), therefore the departure. What I liked about Tänak and Ogier working together in 2017 is the mutual respect that developed during that time.

AnttiL

19th October 2018, 06:09

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpE47_RBWHQ/?taken-by=loeb_seb_9

Well as announced today at the Paris Motor Show, #Peugeot Team will not be involved in the 2019 @fiaworldrx as they are looking at development towards electric cars in Motorsport by 2020. Now where do we go from here. �� #wrc ? :) We shall see over the coming days and weeks. �� ;-)

Of course a great idea was presented on twitter, he should go to M-Sport :D

EstWRC

19th October 2018, 06:28

He does. At the end of last year, he gave an interview where he talked about the things he learned and said he wouldn't mind continuing to learn, but he wants equal chances (mainly same spec car), therefore the departure. What I liked about Tänak and Ogier working together in 2017 is the mutual respect that developed during that time.

they became really good friends and get a long really well...last year at Rally Spain i was at the end of the power stage at the podium, while they were waiting for Meeke to finish it was pure joy to watch Tänak and Ogier, they congratulated each other, they were chatting all the time, making jokes, talking about driving and etc, despite the fact that Tänak got a call from Wilson some hours ago after one stage and told him to stop fighting with Seb.

Every time estonian press does a interview with Seb then he always mentions that Ott has learned a lot from him, even too much :D

Franky

19th October 2018, 06:29

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpE47_RBWHQ/?taken-by=loeb_seb_9
Of course a great idea was presented on twitter, he should go to M-Sport :D

Malcom would finally get all the drivers he has wanted in the last decade :D

deephouse

19th October 2018, 14:11

Why he want to be back in WRC. I mean he is legend surely, but one driver will seat this year almost sure (Paddon, Sordo, Evans, Ostberg, Breen)... And then Qassimi will drive one car and now Loeb want to get a seat too and obviously he will be prior to others... It's not right. It'sn not my call but It would be helpful if all would run three cars and maybe some other manu will be involved, then there wouldn't be a problem at all. (just my thoughts).

racerx1979

19th October 2018, 16:02

He's earned it by being one of the best drivers. I'm sure if he was at the same caliber as the other guys in his day he would lose many opportunities as well. That's life

Fast Eddie WRC

20th October 2018, 10:11

PSA confirmed Loeb will continue as one of their drivers after WRX ends.. programme as yet undecided.

AndyRAC

20th October 2018, 10:54

Well, what programmes do PSA have? Dakar, World RX have both been pulled - so using a process of elimination, you're not left with a lot to choose from......(well those that are suitable for a 9xWRChampion)

deephouse

20th October 2018, 11:18

WTCR maybe with 308. Volvo is entering also again next year. So it could be interesting.

Simmi

20th October 2018, 11:55

WTCR maybe with 308. Volvo is entering also again next year. So it could be interesting.

You used 'WTCR' and 'interesting' in the same sentence there and I've got confused.

Fast Eddie WRC

20th October 2018, 12:17

@JPImperato
"For @SebastienLoeb it's too early to say, but he remains a pilot for PSA Motorsport so we will think about the future with him."

RAS007

20th October 2018, 19:28

RAS007

20th October 2018, 19:38

As for finding sponsorship, it's a competitive market out there; far bigger & more successful sports also have issues getting deals. That's true, and I am aware how hard it is to find sponsorship, but Toyota, Citroen and Hyundai have all secured title sponsor deals, and I can't help thinking that one of the reasons M-Sport has been unable to is because they are not a manufacturer team, in the strictest sense of the term. In other words, Microsoft entered a partnership with Toyota, Shell entered a partnership with Hyundai; that is quite different from a company entering into a partnership with what is essentially Malcolm Wilson Motorsport.

deephouse

20th October 2018, 20:43

Martini is free. He could pursue them or Monster Energy with Block on board. Qatar maybe again.

kirungi okwogera

20th October 2018, 21:39

Re: Martini, I don't see a lot of alcohol sponsors on WRC cars nowadays - a regulation like with cigarettes maybe?

Andre Oliveira

20th October 2018, 22:52

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dp-_nbJWkAAA_4g.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cz5IYi-XUAEcJBp.jpg:large

EstWRC

20th October 2018, 22:54

It used be great livery back in the day but it doesn’t do it for me on those pictures.

Mk2 RS2000

20th October 2018, 22:57

So let’s look at the Hyundai situation. They have announced that Thierry has a contract for three years and will lead the team in 2019. Andreas has a contract for 2019. The contracts (or lack of them) for both Dani and Hayden are yet to be announced. BUT. In 2018 both Dani and Hayden had contracts then Andreas was brought in over the top of them both and we had the share car situation.

We are lead to believe that Dani has stated that he does not want a full season.

Hyundai have just updated the car to include the transmission changes that Hayden has been requesting ever since the car first saw the light of day

Hayden meanwhile is back in NZ quietly running his AP4 car in various configurations including a new rear wing that not only is more pleasing to the eye but actually works better than the WRC type rear wing he had been using.

Could it be that the final decision has yet to be made and that it could well be Andreas and Dani sharing a car?

mknight

21st October 2018, 07:06

Could it be that the final decision has yet to be made and that it could well be Andreas and Dani sharing a car?

No.
Paddon has been the slowest Hyundai everywhere except Finland.
The diff for Paddon that you talk about was introduced before Finland, so there were 3 gravel rallies where to use it, he wasn't slowest only on one of them.

JUF

21st October 2018, 08:05

Well, I actually think the rumours that Hayden stays contracted with Hyundai and is loaned to M-Sport could be true. Hayden would get the final chance to show his potential on all 14 rallies, if he doesn't perform well, he would be dropped after that season. Sordo could share the car with Huttunen.

Zeakiwi

21st October 2018, 08:36

I would be surprised if Paddon drives for M-Sport given the number of hot-shoe Finns and other not-so-hot-shoe Europeans with serious financial backing to buy a seat at M-Sport

Ford NZ sponsors sports teams e.g All Blacks (rugby), Cricket and hockey. https://www.ford.co.nz/about-ford/sponsorship/

I doubt Paddon's family of NZ sponsors could bring the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ required/ necessary for a wrc season.

doubled1978

21st October 2018, 09:37

No.
Paddon has been the slowest Hyundai everywhere except Finland.
The diff for Paddon that you talk about was introduced before Finland, so there were 3 gravel rallies where to use it, he wasn't slowest only on one of them.

Not sure that is a great comparison, in Turkey for sure and from watching him myself in GB, he was told to finish so wasn't pushing like the TN and AM.

Essaj

21st October 2018, 17:37

Looking at the Skoda motorsport's social media accounts and the amount of posts about Chris Ingram I would put some money on that he will be in the factory car next year.
Any other rumours/thoughts about Skodas next year line up? Kalle seems to be the only one with a deal currently.

deephouse

21st October 2018, 20:05

I wrote some time ago about Ingram must being in Skoda colours and official site of Skoda Motorsport like it that post.

Fast Eddie WRC

21st October 2018, 21:13

I've not seen these social media posts re Ingram & Skoda Motorsport - are we talking a WRC-2 drive or something else (ERC, BRC) ?

Also, isnt the new ERC U28 champion Nikolay Gryazin likely to get a deal with them first ?

sollitt

21st October 2018, 21:49

No.
Paddon has been the slowest Hyundai everywhere except Finland.
The diff for Paddon that you talk about was introduced before Finland, so there were 3 gravel rallies where to use it, he wasn't slowest only on one of them.If you think Paddon is the slowest of the Hyundai drivers you are delusional. Statistics and data only paints a part of the picture but without knowing the backroom conversations, workshop goings on and/or goals and targets set one cannot measure the performance.

N.O.T

21st October 2018, 21:56

mknight

21st October 2018, 22:31

If you think Paddon is the slowest of the Hyundai drivers you are delusional. Statistics and data only paints a part of the picture but without knowing the backroom conversations, workshop goings on and/or goals and targets set one cannot measure the performance.

He has the worst visible results.

Could it be he was for example asked in Turkey to take it easy? Sure. He could have been asked before the rally, after first few stages or as late as saturday mid-day.
But lets turn this around. If you have 2 drivers than don't fight for the championship, which one would you as a team boss ask to take it easy and secure points.... surely not the one you believe to be faster.

er88

21st October 2018, 22:41

most of the times backroom conversations don't bring points... only results do... and paddon after his win last year is nothing.That win is actually nearly two and half years ago now. Says a lot about his struggles...

GravelBen

22nd October 2018, 02:45

Could it be he was for example asked in Turkey to take it easy? Sure. He could have been asked before the rally, after first few stages or as late as saturday mid-day.

In Turkey he said before the rally even started that his strategy was to hold back and protect the car, and you might remember that it paid off with a podium. Thats not being slow, its intelligent driving.

Mk2 RS2000

22nd October 2018, 03:03

In Turkey he said before the rally even started that his strategy was to hold back and protect the car, and you might remember that it paid off with a podium. Thats not being slow, its intelligent driving.

He who pays the piper calls the tune. Manufactures employ drivers to win the Manufacturers Championship. That is the title the Board Room requires. Drivers Championship is nice but it is secondary in their quest. This season Hayden has put aside his personal goals so as to assist Hyundai achieve theirs.

When TN stuffs up who ever is nominated as the 2nd driver cannot chase the podium and risk the manufacturers points. Unfortunately Andreas has not proved to be reliable in that role.

mufcAleksi

22nd October 2018, 15:07

WRC official Youtube channel suggests Breen is going to M-Sport! http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TPh6OZ2-o

AnttiL

22nd October 2018, 15:57

It’s just a section of the Catalynua WRC+ preview magazine, published already on friday. Just rumors...

noel157

22nd October 2018, 19:57

Nice to see WRC on mainstream TV, albeit regional (BBC NI have a good-ish record). Words the same, might even be new footage although maybe I did not see all of last week:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/motorsport/45942760?ns_linkname=northern_ireland&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_sport_ni&ns_mchannel=social

DocMS

22nd October 2018, 19:57

. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181022/607764347aaea484d15e756f7e956aae.jpg

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

noel157

22nd October 2018, 19:58

WRC official Youtube channel suggests Breen is going to M-Sport! http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TPh6OZ2-o

Seems to be the case in all the WRC related platforms.

er88

22nd October 2018, 22:30

Seems more like an open secret now rather than just a "rumour".

racerx1979

22nd October 2018, 23:40

Suninen, Breen and Evans or Paddon...

er88

23rd October 2018, 00:37

If Paddon stays at Hyundai on a half season deal (he'd be silly to do so vs a possible full season at Msport), then I don't see why Malcolm would want to keep Evans for another year over giving Pontus Tidemand a chance. Evans doesn't bring money, and he's had 4 full seasons or something in the WRC now and not shown enough.

You could say Kalle's speed this year has maybe shown Pontus up a little, but he still deserves a chance in a WRC car and it would be exciting to see him alongside Suninen and Breen in a youthful team. Evans being given a 5th year wouldn't really be exciting or interesting (unless you're a huge fan of Evans and that's what you care about most).

If Malcolm can put faith in Eric Camilli then surely Tidemand deserves at least a season, especially when there are very few other options around.

Fast Eddie WRC

24th October 2018, 10:38

I don't see why Malcolm would want to keep Evans for another year over giving Pontus Tidemand a chance. Evans doesn't bring money, and he's had 4 full seasons or something in the WRC now and not shown enough.

I think Evans is in the last chance saloon in Spain and Australia. Wilson is really giving him every chance and saying 'the speed is there' and 'he's been unlucky'.

Re Breen to M-Sport, I've been saying this for weeks.

T16

24th October 2018, 10:55

Re Breen to M-Sport, I've been saying this for weeks.[/QUOTE]

You also said Breen possibly to Hyundai and Paddon possibly to M-Sport, Eddie..... no prizes for covering every possible outcome.

mknight

24th October 2018, 11:20

After I realized this is 4th full season for Evans I had short look on how many season drivers did (including 2018). I didn't check very precisely so it's just an idicator. I count full season when driver only missed 1-2 rallies. I also added driver age (going just by year)

Latvala 12 - 33 years
Sordo 9 + 4 short ones - 35y
Ogier 8 + 1 short - 35y
Neuville 7 - 30y
Tanak 5 - 31y
Østberg 4 + 3-4 short (often with private car) -31y
Mikkelsen 4 + 2 short - 29y
Evans 4 - 30y
Meeke 3 + 3 short -39 y
Paddon 3 + 2 short - 31y
Breen 0 + 3 short - 28y
Lappi 1 + 1 short -27y
Suninen 0 (though this year is almost full) - 24y

Apart from Latvala who I knew off from before, I was surprised Neuville has been around for so long. Clearly Evans also stands out in this comparison , specially since Paddon, Breen, Lappi and sometimes also Suninen have been faster than him this year.

dimviii

24th October 2018, 12:54

Αnother interesting is Meeke is almost same as Paddon

Fast Eddie WRC

25th October 2018, 10:49

Re Breen to M-Sport, I've been saying this for weeks.

You also said Breen possibly to Hyundai and Paddon possibly to M-Sport, Eddie..... no prizes for covering every possible outcome.[/QUOTE]

I didnt say Breen to Hyundai... quote me T16.

No-one else was saying Breen to M-Sport.

AnttiL

25th October 2018, 11:14

No-one else was saying Breen to M-Sport.

Miika Wuorela brought up that Breen had been offered a 2+1 deal from M-Sport on 3rd October https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39983-Silly-Season-2019&p=1193459#post1193459

In this post (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39983-Silly-Season-2019&p=1192992&highlight=Breen#post1192992) from September 26th Eddie suggests that Breen stays at Citroen and T16 replies he should go to M-Sport

T16

25th October 2018, 11:32

You also said Breen possibly to Hyundai and Paddon possibly to M-Sport, Eddie..... no prizes for covering every possible outcome.

I didnt say Breen to Hyundai... quote me T16.

No-one else was saying Breen to M-Sport.[/QUOTE]

you posted this: So as the Ulsterman gets a seat, the Irishman now looks to be out of one. Where next for Breen ?

M-Sport or part-time at Hyundai seem the only choices. Or could it be full-time there and Mikkelsen dropped after his poor year...

T16

25th October 2018, 11:35

Miika Wuorela brought up that Breen had been offered a 2+1 deal from M-Sport on 3rd October https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39983-Silly-Season-2019&p=1193459#post1193459

In this post (https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?39983-Silly-Season-2019&p=1192992&highlight=Breen#post1192992) from September 26th Eddie suggests that Breen stays at Citroen and T16 replies he should go to M-Sport

Ha - brilliant - well spotted AnttiL.... Eddie, what you say to that?

tomhlord

25th October 2018, 13:08

This thread has gone rapidly downhill, tragic.

On the plus side, there's a rally on and still some 2019 seats to fill. Onwards.

wrc2017

25th October 2018, 13:46

actually has.. very tragic..

Jewy46

25th October 2018, 14:19

So if Breen & Paddon do go to M-Sport as rumoured, do you guys think this is better for their futures than part seasons with Citroen & Hyundai respectively?

The advantage would obviously be guaranteed full season, gaining experience & momentum on every round rather than more pressure on every event they compete in.

The disadvantage is not being in a "factory" backed car. Citroen are going to fling money at the car now(by the sounds of it) but it looks like Breen is not going to be there to reap the rewards, and of course the Hyundai is fast as is and will continue to be developed.
The Fiesta is only going to fall behind on development as time goes on.

Of course my hope is a full season will suit both drivers (particularly Breen who hasn't got that chance yet) but only time will tell.

BobJones

25th October 2018, 14:59

So if Breen & Paddon do go to M-Sport as rumoured, do you guys think this is better for their futures than part seasons with Citroen & Hyundai respectively?

It hinges on the amount of car development budget. e.g. new aero on all cars, engine upgrades etc. If M-Sport can keep up with the development race then I feel it's a good move. If they are behind due to budget constraints then Breen and Paddon may find themselves at the bottom of the top 10.

mknight

25th October 2018, 15:12

I do think that Fiesta will fall behind in development.
But still it might be good for them because:
- Fiesta will still be an allround car, which can't really be said about both C3 (problems in trick conditions) and I20 (fast rallies/low grip/tarmac)
- more importantly they will be in same team with the youngest driver on the edge of establishing himself, if one of them is clearly faster than Suninen all the time in same car, it should help his employnment chances

doubled1978

25th October 2018, 15:13

It hinges on the amount of car development budget. e.g. new aero on all cars, engine upgrades etc. If M-Sport can keep up with the development race then I feel it's a good move. If they are behind due to budget constraints then Breen and Paddon may find themselves at the bottom of the top 10.

For Breen I think it's a no brainer, go to MSport if thats an option. For Paddon it's more complicated, he has a strong relationship with Hyundai, not just in WRC and he might have the opinion that he could have a lasting relationship with the company after he stops driving in WRC etc. For his long term employment it might be good to stay, even if its not a full time drive...Incidentally I think Kopecky is in a similar situation with Skoda.

AnttiL

25th October 2018, 15:16

Silly season's almost over with the most important pieces of the puzzle in place. I would guess Hyundai announcing their third car driver(s) soon after Catalunya and then we have to wait maybe until next year to hear what M-Sport's up to. I'm quite sure Sordo gets to continue with Hyundai, but will it be a partial season and who is he sharing the car with?

Also, we haven't heard yet anything about WRC2 next year other than that Rovanperä will continue with Skoda. Which teams/drivers will go to WRC2Pro and what will be the regulations? Two drivers per team? Can they rotate the drivers per event? In addition to Skoda, Citroen and M-Sport? Proton? Hyundai? And who are going to drive the new VW which could be a Skoda challenger?

Rally Power

25th October 2018, 17:25

Ha - brilliant - well spotted AnttiL.... Eddie, what you say to that?

Honestly, what’s the point of going back checking what people have said in this thread? We’re all making wild guesses, mainly for fun. Even journos do it, apparently without caring how wrong they can be. That’s silly season spirit.

Btw, as most are granting the Breen/MSport deal: why can’t Breen still be driving for Citroen if Abu Dhabi continues and how will MSport, without major sponsors, be able to run 3 cars again (Suninen, Breen and Paddon)? And who will run/pay a VW team, once VW Motorsport isn’t supposed to make a direct entry?

wrc2017

25th October 2018, 17:41

For Breen I think it's a no brainer, go to MSport if thats an option. For Paddon it's more complicated, he has a strong relationship with Hyundai, not just in WRC and he might have the opinion that he could have a lasting relationship with the company after he stops driving in WRC etc. For his long term employment it might be good to stay, even if its not a full time drive...Incidentally I think Kopecky is in a similar situation with Skoda.

why no brainer? if he is paying for both.. would he not be safer in a 3rd Citroen, is that was on the table?

AnttiL

25th October 2018, 18:25

And who will run/pay a VW team, once VW Motorsport isn’t supposed to make a direct entry?

For example Printsport has bought two of the first Polo batch. But I suppose they can't be entered to WRC2 Pro...

doubled1978

25th October 2018, 19:18

why no brainer? if he is paying for both.. would he not be safer in a 3rd Citroen, is that was on the table?

Is he paying?
And would you pay to be 3rd Citroen with no chance to win when you could pay to be at worst on equal footing with the other guys at MSport...I know what I would do. But then I am not Craig Breen....

tomhlord

25th October 2018, 19:20

Btw, as most are granting the Breen/MSport deal: why can’t Breen still be driving for Citroen if Abu Dhabi continues and how will MSport, without major sponsors, be able to run 3 cars again (Suninen, Breen and Paddon)?

What adds to the complication slighty, and interests me, is where is the Peugeot WorldRX pot of money going to be allocated? Are PSA simply saving money, or could extra funds be used to run a full-time third C3?

Tarmop

25th October 2018, 19:24

Rumours about a new WEC project where up quite recently.

deephouse

25th October 2018, 19:34

Maybe but no in 2019, Famin said it yesterday that they have no program for next year.

Tarmop

25th October 2018, 19:38

It was further yes, 2021 or sth., but that doesn`t mean they won`t start investing money.

AnttiL

26th October 2018, 07:34

Molly said on All Live about rumors of Østberg driving a third Citroen next year. It would make sense, maye Loeb would do some rallies, maybe Al-Qassimi as well?

er88

26th October 2018, 08:09

Molly said on All Live about rumors of Østberg driving a third Citroen next year. It would make sense, maye Loeb would do some rallies, maybe Al-Qassimi as well?Loeb could maybe do 4/5/6 now, would be great if Mads can do the rest.

AnttiL

26th October 2018, 08:33

Loeb could maybe do 4/5/6 now, would be great if Mads can do the rest.

Monte, Mexico, Corsica, Germany, Spain...

AnttiL

26th October 2018, 10:52

https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/takamoto-katsuta-2019-cuarto-toyota-yaris-wrc/

Katsuta in fourth Toyota for some rallies in 2019

er88

26th October 2018, 11:12

https://www.diariomotor.com/competicion/noticia/takamoto-katsuta-2019-cuarto-toyota-yaris-wrc/

Katsuta in fourth Toyota for some rallies in 2019The more WRC cars, the better it is for the spectators out there on the stages.

However I feel it'd be a year too early to put Katsuta in a Yaris. Will be interesting to see though

T16

29th October 2018, 10:53

Seven rounds for Dani next year..

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139739/sordo-2019-deal-to-be-announced-this-week

Tarmop

29th October 2018, 11:04

Disappointing, when they continue the same way. Especially Mikkelsen driving on every round seems like a waste of manuf. points and doesn`t help Neuville much. Could be leading-winning at the moment.

mknight

29th October 2018, 11:11

Seven rounds for Dani next year..

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139739/sordo-2019-deal-to-be-announced-this-week
I expect he goes to Chile because he's spanish and due to the pairing with Argentina. Which round will he drop then if he stays on 7 like this year. I don't see any clear candidate.

AnttiL

29th October 2018, 11:13

This year there were 13 rallies so Paddon and Sordo both did Portugal to give them even numbers. Assuming next year we're having 14 rounds, they would probably just do 7+7. Sordo to Chile and only Paddon to Portugal.

Disappointing, when they continue the same way. Especially Mikkelsen driving on every round seems like a waste of manuf. points and doesn`t help Neuville much. Could be leading-winning at the moment.

I have mentioned this multiple times: all of the four Hyundai drivers are competitive on technical gravel rallies. Only Neuville and Sordo are fast on tarmac and only Paddon can be somewhat competitive in Finland. To fill those gaps, they would need new drivers or then improvements through car updates or driving style changes.

Fast Eddie WRC

29th October 2018, 11:23

This seems to have killed the Paddon on loan to M-Sport rumour. Looks like Breen vs Evans for the seat.

Østberg to decide if they can have his money. I dont think he will want to go there as he wasnt happy with the lack of help & parts when running his own Fiesta.

mknight

29th October 2018, 11:24

AnttiL it seems odd to me that Spanish driver won’t be send to Portugal.

Fast Eddie WRC

29th October 2018, 11:38

BTW my prediction of Breen to M-Sport was only made after Ogiier's announcement and Citroen stating they would probably only run two cars. This was also following his appearance I saw at the Rally Forum with M.Wilson. They seemed to me to have some connection.

AnttiL

29th October 2018, 11:51

Looks like Breen vs Evans for the seat.
How? There's two seats available. It's not a fight between them, it's just if they can get a budget behind them.

Østberg to decide if they can have his money. I dont think he will want to go there as he wasnt happy with the lack of help & parts when running his own Fiesta.

I don't understand this logic. Was it mentioned somewhere Østberg had alack of help and parts? It's just the difference between buying a car and running it yourself or renting everything from M-Sport.

However, I think Østberg's primary objection is to continue the partnership at Citroen, and that was also mentioned during All Live last weekend.

T16

29th October 2018, 11:58

AnttiL

29th October 2018, 12:08

Please guys, this thread isn't about you, this is about the WRC drivers.

racerx1979

29th October 2018, 13:28

MSport has 2 seats. If Evans gets sacked (which was the rumor this weekend) then it can easily be Paddon, Breen or Ostberg for seats 2 and 3.

Citroen should be begging Loeb to do more rallies. The rumor was 4-5 events before the end of his rally cross program. Maybe they will try to convince him to do more events and have Ostberg and Qassimi do the rest?

I honestly think Mikkelsen should share the car with Sordo. It's getting old to hear the same old stories at stage end. "yeah we're learning the car blah blah".

To me it looks like Ford will be Suninen, Breen and Paddon.
Hyundai is a weird one because I'm not sure who will share the car with Sordo if Paddon wants a full season. I also heard Mads was talking to Hyundai. Maybe he will share the car if Loeb decides to do more events.. still a silly season.

AnttiL

29th October 2018, 13:42

To me it looks like Ford will be Suninen, Breen and Paddon.
Hyundai is a weird one because I'm not sure who will share the car with Sordo if Paddon wants a full season. I also heard Mads was talking to Hyundai. Maybe he will share the car if Loeb decides to do more events.. still a silly season.

Autosport just said it will most likely by Paddon with Sordo, 7 events each.

Pierre Budar said at the end of Catalunya press conference that they haven't been yet confirmed a third car, it's down to negotiating with different partners. Maybe they are losing Abu Dhabi?

mknight

29th October 2018, 13:47

I honestly think Mikkelsen should share the car with Sordo. It's getting old to hear the same old stories at stage end. "yeah we're learning the car blah blah".

I don't see anyone around and available that has as good or better results on tarmac with other cars. (1 WRC win and multiple podiums with different cars)
Yes in i20 Mikkelsen has terrible tarmac speed. So if you want to change it and are Hyundai you can either
a) invest time and money in making the car-driver combination work (doesn't seem to be the case atm)
b) get a driver that was slower than him in other cars (ex. Kopecky or Camilli) and then risk going back to same situation

Atm. looks like Hyundai is not doing either and with Toyota speed on gravel they will likely put their money into gravel development instead.

Tarmop

29th October 2018, 13:51

Well, but there is no tarmac pace, especially when you think that he has won this event.

mknight

29th October 2018, 14:02

Well, but there is no tarmac pace, especially when you think that he has won this event.
Indeed, hence the two options about what Hyundai can do about it.

BigWorm

29th October 2018, 14:02

So the Mikkelsen arguments still go on? He drives well on gravel with the i20 but the car is obviously not suited to his tarmac driving so therefore the results are not coming, just like every other driver the car and driver must match to get the most of it. He and Hyundai needs to learn and work toward that, next season will be testament to that. After next season you could draw the conclusion that Mikkelsen should or should not be in the Hyundai, but what we know of Mikkelsen is that when he is in the right car on any surface he can perform very well.

Tarmop

29th October 2018, 14:06

He did this rally in a Hyundai last year already, wasn`t exactly brilliant then, except for day 1 on gravel, but fought for 5.-6. on tarmac before breaking his steering. Where was he now?
Not saying that he doesn`t deserve a seat, but it is a bit harsh considering Paddon (and also Sordo), who had a great season 2016, season 2017 started with a huge accident + other problems and bang, his seat is taken before the season ends.

er88

29th October 2018, 14:09

Well, but there is no tarmac pace, especially when you think that he has won this event.Exactly, Hyundai can't get much worse than their driver getting beat by R5 cars on a full, proper stage. That's quite frankly an embarrassment for Andreas and the team, and a new low for Mikkelsen this season. Would Paddon really do worse?

mknight

29th October 2018, 14:16

Would Paddon really do worse?
Paddon was 6th on Corsica and 8th in Germany last year. Mikkelsen 7th and 6th this year. No difference.

BigWorm

29th October 2018, 14:17

Would Paddon really do worse?

Maybe not, but probably not better either.

Japé

29th October 2018, 14:17

Yes, it has been quite ridiculous to see these comments in other topics that Mikkelsen is slow tarmac driver, even everyone knows he has proven opposite in the past against Ogier, Kopecky, etc. Also Sordo has said in interviews that he would now prefer to drive gravel rallies, because car is neither to his liking on tarmac. Of course drivers are rated in multiple skills, not just driving, but working with mechanics, engineers, etc. However when two star drivers in the same team continue to struggle with the same issue throughout the year, I would see the persons in the team that should be replaced are some key engineers working with Mikkelsen and Sordo, not the drivers. Or to find some external technical help consult to solve this handling issue on tarmac.

racerx1979

29th October 2018, 14:42

I do not think people are saying Andreas is slow, but results are obvious and he is not fairing well in the Hyundai. I think the Citroen suited his style a lot more.

racerx1979

29th October 2018, 14:47

Autosport just said it will most likely by Paddon with Sordo, 7 events each.

Pierre Budar said at the end of Catalunya press conference that they haven't been yet confirmed a third car, it's down to negotiating with different partners. Maybe they are losing Abu Dhabi?

Autosport is sometimes right and many times wrong :).

I do not think they are losing Abu Dhabi. I honestly think the Loeb situation of him losing the RX program has thrown a wrench in negotiations. You've got Qassimi wanting to do a few events along with Mads, but now Loeb is free... someone will have to step down and do less if Loeb says he wants to do more events. There was a strong rumor that he was doing 4-5 events next year, but that might have changed. Maybe Red Bull will pay Loeb to do more events...

Grutz

29th October 2018, 16:39

If I was team boss at Hyundai this is what I would do with drivers next season:

Nueville ALL 14 rounds
Mikkelsen 11 Rounds excluding Chile, Portugal, Argentina
Paddon 10 rounds (7 from this year plus Mexico, Chile, Argentina)
Sordo 7 rounds (The same as this year)

Just my thoughts.

Rally Power

29th October 2018, 19:24

Autosport just said it will most likely by Paddon with Sordo, 7 events each.

Considering Mikkelsen dreadful year, why must we believe it’ll be Paddon sharing the 3rd car with Sordo? If Mikkelsen underperforms again in MC and Sweden won’t Nandan be tempted to give Paddon the second car for the rest of the season?

There was a strong rumor that he was doing 4-5 events next year, but that might have changed. Maybe Red Bull will pay Loeb to do more events...

Citroen main focus after Australia must be getting Ogier and Lappi into the team and work with them as hard as possible in order to make the C3 a winner in all events. How many rallys Loeb will be doing next year seems totally secondary, no matter how much we speculate about it.

wrc2017

29th October 2018, 19:31

I do not think people are saying Andreas is slow, but results are obvious and he is not fairing well in the Hyundai. I think the Citroen suited his style a lot more.

bar germany, for which the car excels, he was even slower in the citroen

Andre Oliveira

29th October 2018, 21:06

Loeb will announce 2019 program this wednesday.

Maybe some M-Sport news too.

mknight

29th October 2018, 21:26

Loeb will announce 2019 program this wednesday.

Maybe some M-Sport news too.

That's quite fast.

Anyway, while I heard about Msport rumors I just can't see why.
He is still PSA driver and Citroen have C3 seat free. If Al Quassimi money stays (which it sounded like when they talked to him in Spain) then surely Loeb is a worth the money.

the sniper

29th October 2018, 21:53

Literally the only reason I could see for Loeb going to M-Sport would be some kind of deal between Red Bull/WRC Promoter and M-Sport to get him there to help Malcolm out of a tough spot, but even that seems highly unlikely... Unlike Ogier, I've not seen anything to say that Loeb is particularly interested in working personally with Malcolm, and there seems to be no problem between Loeb and PSA/Budar, so why would he go?

er88

29th October 2018, 22:03

Loeb won't be going to Msport.

er88

29th October 2018, 22:19

bar germany, for which the car excels, he was even slower in the citroenYeah he said in an interview last season he could jump into the Hyundai and be fast right away as it reminded him of the Polo, whereas the C3 was totally different from a driving perspective (this was to explain his chronic lack of speed in Sardinia and his struggles to adjust to the car).

He couldn't drive the c3 at all on gravel, and his comments about being at home in the Hyundai right away seemed true, when he was on the pace instantly on the gravel in Spain and Australia (albeit with cleaning), and competitive in Wales.

This season however has been a nightmare considering he had aims to be world champion, and his arrival at Hyundai relegated Sordo and Paddon to half seasons. So you'd expect him to be a level above and at least 40/50pts closer to Thierry.

He has to start well next season and I hope he does, because I'd like to see Hyundai finally win a championship. They've been a great addition to the sport and are a proper, proper team.

mknight

29th October 2018, 22:32

Yeah he said in an interview last season he could jump into the Hyundai and be fast right away as it reminded him of the Polo, whereas the C3 was totally different from a driving perspective (this was to explain his chronic lack of speed in Sardinia and his struggles to adjust to the car).

He couldn't drive the c3 at all on gravel, and his comments about being at home in the Hyundai right away seemed true, when he was on the pace instantly on the gravel in Spain and Australia (albeit with cleaning), and competitive in Wales.

This season however has been a nightmare considering he had aims to be world champion, and his arrival at Hyundai relegated Sordo and Paddon to half seasons. So you'd expect him to be a level above and at least 40/50pts closer to Thierry.

He has to start well next season and I hope he does, because I'd like to see Hyundai finally win a championship. They've been a great addition to the sport and are a proper, proper team.

On Sardinia he drove the C3 basically without test (did a few kms in France only). In Poland he was faster than Breen, same speed as Lefevbre and did the first ever Power Stage points for C3 on gravel. Note that this was at the time where 1st (Meeke) and 3rd (Breen) from Finland 2016 ended 5th (Breen) and 8th (Meeke) on Finland 2018. Seemingly a lot has changed with C3 since then.

As for aiming to be world champion, well when drivers win a few rallies it's really the only possible next goal. Nobody will really aim to be a "good number 2" or something like that. That's why Paddon is saying the same as well, so did Meeke just recently.
So far he has not shown enough consistency over a whole season to do it, just like Latvala. In 2016 he was better at consistency+speed than Latvala, but still nowhere near the Ogier/Loeb-machine levels. Only Neuville is really approaching that and only this year, Tanak is not yet there either.

Tarmop

30th October 2018, 06:40

Loeb praised Ogier, that i is a miracle he is up there with the slowest machinery this season. Does that sound like something tempting for a 9x champion having fun?:D

Talking about consistency, then Ogier has done a lot of mistakes compared to his closest rivals.

mknight

30th October 2018, 08:17

Talking about consistency, then Ogier has done a lot of mistakes compared to his closest rivals.
Compared to Neuville this year yes. Last year he won the title basically only on consistency.

Andre Oliveira

30th October 2018, 10:03

Loeb won't be going to Msport.

Like Ogier before signed.

EstWRC

30th October 2018, 10:36

Greensmith just posted this pic on twitter, testing the Fiesta it seems...maybe having some rallies in 2019?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqwBkBdXQAEi5wq.jpg

https://twitter.com/GreensmithGus/status/1057221736977043457

Allez Andruet

30th October 2018, 11:14

Greensmith just posted this pic on twitter, testing the Fiesta it seems...maybe having some rallies in 2019?

He seems to have notable financial backing and M-Sport surely needs customers. Sounds like a match. And even better that Greensmith can actually drive a little...

AnttiL

30th October 2018, 12:33

Well more than Serderidis but not as much as Evans, you know...

Allez Andruet

30th October 2018, 12:55

Well more than Serderidis but not as much as Evans, you know...

Oh yes, but I'm afraid the latter is not in the same category with the other two. Unfortunately.

er88

30th October 2018, 14:24

Like Ogier before signed.Msport was one of three options as soon as VW pulled out. Then it more or less became the only genuine option for Ogier other than retirement, after the underwhelming Toyota test and with Citroen showing little interest, and not even allowing him to test.

This situation with Loeb isn't similar. You've had Linda Jackson saying he'll be doing something with PSA next year and Loeb himself was asked if he was to be driving next year in WRC, what team that would be for - and he looked at his Citroen racing overalls and laughed like it was a stupid question.

Either you're living in fantasy land or you've heard something exciting and really surprising that you could maybe share with us ;).

Andre Oliveira

30th October 2018, 15:09

Lets said that where is smoke have fire too ;)

T16

30th October 2018, 15:12

Lets said that where is smoke have fire too ;)

All very cryptic! Do you know something?

tommeke_B

30th October 2018, 15:24

Since it's called "silly season"... What if Loeb surprises everyone and is going to Hyundai? :D

er88

30th October 2018, 15:41

Citroen has reopened the door to running a third car in the 2019 World Rally Championship, meaning Sebastien Loeb or Craig Breen could remain in its line-up.

When Citroen announced Sebastien*Ogier*and Esapekka Lappi as its WRC line-up, it suggested there would be no third C3.

It went into this season intending to field Kris Meeke full-time, with Breen and Loeb sharing the second car and team backer Khalid Al-Qassimi making occasional appearances in a third entry.

Mads Ostberg then secured a part-time deal with the team too, with his role expanded after Meeke was dismissed.

Citroen CEO Linda Jackson told Autosport a third car for 2019 was now a serious possibility as the team chased its first manufacturers' title since '12.

"We are currently in discussion with our partners about a possible third car," Jackson told Autosport.

"We're looking at it. The car has proved itself and the combination of the car and the new drivers are going to give us success.

"We think we can win the championship. Let's be honest, you wouldn't take one of the best drivers and not want to win."

Loeb had committed his future to the World Rallycross Championship with Citroen's PSA sister brand Peugeot, only for it to pull out of RX earlier this month.

Loeb then won Rally Spain on the last outing of his three-round WRC comeback programme with Citroen, and admitted it made him more interested in continuing into 2019 - though strictly on a part-time basis.

Jackson hinted that the ball was now in Loeb's court.

"Sebastien is part of the PSA family and obviously lots of discussions are being had," said Jackson.

"I can't really comment, that would be unfair to talk about what he does or doesn't want to do.

"He's part of the family and I'm sure there will be something that Sebastien wants to do and that will help us.

"There's lots on the table and we wait for Sebastien to give us his choice."

Breen had seemed unlikely to continue with Citroen once Ogier and Lappi were announced, but may now get a lifeline if the third car goes ahead.

Asked about Breen's chance of a 2019 Citroen seat, Jackson replied: "Craig is looking at his future and I'm sure there will be something coming out for Craig.

"Craig is doing a fantastic job for us right now and if there is a third car, he'll be in the mix for that."

Jackson also confirmed Citroen is committed to the WRC for the next two seasons - the duration of Ogier's contract.

denkimi

30th October 2018, 16:20

Since it's called "silly season"... What if Loeb surprises everyone and is going to Hyundai? :D
If you really want to be silly, perhaps he will drive a season of wrc2 in the VW next to petter solberg.

gorganl2000

30th October 2018, 17:15

here's my two cents regarding Loeb's possible future in wrc
he's been a driver and ambassador for Citroen over the years and he's in the PSA family, he's accustomed to the culture and i'm sure has many friends there. They have been through good times (well great times) together and bad times together, they have won together and lost together, they have had differences and overcame those. I'd be very surprised to see Loeb drive in WRC 2019 for anyone but Citroen, not saying its impossible, but very very very very unlikely. On a side note, when we speak of Loeb and a possible 2019 WRC drive, we tend to not mention Elena, but it seems Elena is also at home at Citroen and i'm sure as Loeb's #1 choice of co-driver, that must also come into the equation. It makes little sense to change a formula that is working so well for them from 2002 till now.

Even with Ogier as the #1 drive now at Citroen, it makes no difference to Loeb, who is no longer interested in a full time drive, so no longer a direct competitor and may actually help Ogier and Citroen's chances of getting both titles in 2019 depending on the scenario (i understand there could be a problem if the 3 of them fight for the same victory on specific rallies, but management will need to be clear on the "team directive" in such instances). Furthermore, it appears the past is in the past for them, as they (Loeb & Ogier) seem to get along quite well for a while now---last i saw, Ogier jumped on to the Citroen c3 rooftop to celebrate with Loeb/Elena after Loeb won Catalunya a short while ago. Of recent, it just seems the media is sometimes looking to create a "feud" to make headlines, where there is really none, but then again that what sells and attracts some viewers/supporters

so its really in Loeb's court now what he wants to do

dimviii

30th October 2018, 17:38

if Malcolm can pay Loeb he would keep Ogier.This about Loeb -Ford ''rumors''
About Citroen with the duo Loeb Ogier,its not an easy task.
If Loeb is in front of Ogier at some rallies,what will do? If he has to back off,why to enter this situation? i dont think that he is looking for something like that.
If Loeb goes for the win,why Ogier to have an inside strong championship contenter against Neuville-Tanak etc?

Myrvold

30th October 2018, 17:52

If you really want to be silly, perhaps he will drive a season of wrc2 in the VW next to petter solberg.

Seb Loeb Racing does use VW TCR cars in WTCR! So, confirmed then?:D

BobJones

31st October 2018, 07:25

Even though the two Sebs are all smiles now, I still find it hard to imagine them both working well in the same team, unless Loeb agrees not to fight for victory if Ogier is also in the podium positions. But, would he want to do that? Not sure.

spiderem

31st October 2018, 08:47

Looking at the Sebs bromance currently, if i were Lappi i would start to wonder if it was a smart move to go at citroen... Hypotetical situation, but both Sebs driving for citroen, having good results, french drivers in a french team, i can see lappi easily be side tracked... In my opinion he will need to be fast and consistent from the very beginning of the season to avoid becoming a part time driver. And people saying "he has a contract, full time drive, blablabla", well if we have learn something the last 2 seasons, is that contract means nothing!

AnttiL

31st October 2018, 09:43

Loeb confirmed for Dakar 2019 in a private PH Sport Peugeot. Dakar ends now two days earlier than this year so it would be possible to do Monte as well?

Allez Andruet

31st October 2018, 09:59

And people saying "he has a contract, full time drive, blablabla", well if we have learn something the last 2 seasons, is that contract means nothing!

Contract means whatever is written in it.

Allez Andruet

31st October 2018, 11:29

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139783/msport-chasing-loeb-for-2019

I can't believe the amount of completely absurd rumors floating around the forums and media during this silly season. First it was Meeke to Toyota and now this.

tomhlord

31st October 2018, 12:11

Malcolm would be silly not to at least talk to him, glad it's public knowledge that they are trying. Still can't help but think that Loeb with either be a) too expensive or b) committed to PSA for his entire career.

Andre Oliveira

31st October 2018, 12:22

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq1nRONXgAAd6iG?format=jpg&name=900x900

Tarmop

31st October 2018, 12:27

Funny, that there aren`t any rumours about Mäkinens 4th car for retired champions and Katsuta.:D
But to make it plausible (Loeb to M-sport), they would have to offer him a much better car than Citroen could ever be next season.

tommeke_B

31st October 2018, 12:29

but to make it plausible (loeb to m-sport), they would have to offer him a much better car than citroen could ever be next season.

So it seems impossible.

BobJones

31st October 2018, 12:30

But to make it plausible (Loeb to M-sport), they would have to offer him a much better car than Citroen could ever be next season.

He would get the car upgrades, the other M-Sport drivers won't. Just like in 2018 with Ogier.

Tarmop

31st October 2018, 12:37

Upgrades are quite cheap compared to making/ fine-tuning them.

Fast Eddie WRC

31st October 2018, 12:59

The positive in the story is M-Sport looking ahead for driver's in 2019 after the recent rumour of them pulling out.

Allez Andruet

31st October 2018, 13:02

Didn't Loeb just refer to Fiesta as "not the best car" when talking about Ogier's season? It's hard to see what there would be for Loeb to gain in that scenario.

Andre Oliveira

31st October 2018, 13:10

Malcolm offered test to prove. Maybe the test allready happened ;)

tomhlord

31st October 2018, 13:13

Malcolm offered test to prove. Maybe the test allready happened ;)

That big M-Sport test facility is certainly well shrouded.

Tarmop

31st October 2018, 13:20

Wonder, how much money he would bring. Reigning champion probably brought what he could, including RB, but a 9x champ. and a legend...especially Ford Performance and maybe Abu Dhabi?

mknight

31st October 2018, 13:28

Funny, that there aren`t any rumours about Mäkinens 4th car for retired champions and Katsuta.:D

I read that Katsuta is already confirmed for a few rounds in 4th car.

T16

31st October 2018, 13:30

Malcolm offered test to prove. Maybe the test allready happened ;)

Are you saying it did or not?

T16

31st October 2018, 13:31

The positive in the story is M-Sport looking ahead for driver's in 2019 after the recent rumour of them pulling out.

It would be great if they got him, but i have a feeling it might be Loeb or bust for them.

SubaruNorway

31st October 2018, 16:54

I read that Katsuta is already confirmed for a few rounds in 4th car.

Yup, Mäkinen talked about it on All Live in Turkey

Tarmop

31st October 2018, 16:56

That is certain yes, but around that 4th car have been talks about Grönholm in Sweden etc...so took it further, because it`s silly season.

AnttiL

31st October 2018, 19:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO2EUl-Gclw

Huttunen testing the Hyundai WRC. Maybe some outings next year?

spiderem

1st November 2018, 07:57

doesn't look like the Abu Dhabi / Red Bull combination is such an issue at the end, look at Loeb overalls from Catalunya.

Tarmop

1st November 2018, 09:00

Well, there could be a big difference in being a RB athlete or a full team sponsored by both.

Japé

1st November 2018, 09:42

When is the last time when factory team have had an external non-automotive industry related main sponsor, other than RB or Abu Dhabi - Martini Movistar Ford? A bit challenging to understand how hard it is to reach main sponsors for rally teams.

What might be the salary of being RB athlete?

T16

1st November 2018, 09:55

deephouse

1st November 2018, 10:09

Hyundai - Shell Mobis, Ford - Qatar

Tarmop

1st November 2018, 10:13

Shell and Mobis are quite automotive-related...last being HMG itself actually, not an outside sponsor.

AnttiL

1st November 2018, 11:07

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makinen-suunnittelee-japanilaiskuski-toyotan-wrc-autolla-kahteen-mm-ralliin/

Like expected, Katsuta would likely do Sweden and Finland in a WRC Yaris. He's testing the car next week and the decision is made afterwards.

deephouse

1st November 2018, 11:39

If Qassimi will be there too at least he will beat him

Tarmop

1st November 2018, 11:53

What about Grönholm? Was pretty interested (again) around NORF.

AnttiL

1st November 2018, 13:20

COD

1st November 2018, 13:24

What about Grönholm? Was pretty interested (again) around NORF.

Could do Sweden (his favourite rally), nothing else

AnttiL

1st November 2018, 13:27

Could do Sweden (his favourite rally), nothing else

can't do Sweden in a Toyota if Katsuta is in the fourth car.

1st November 2018, 14:09

can't do Sweden in a Toyota if Katsuta is in the fourth car.

Probably and that would be a real shame!

On the other hand there is a lot of cars in the TGR garage in Puuppola nowadays...

AnttiL

1st November 2018, 14:10

Probably and that would be a real shame!

On the other hand there is a lot of cars in the TGR garage in Puuppola nowadays...

We know that extra cars don't depend on the number of available chassises, more on mechanics and other resources needed to run them.

pantealex

1st November 2018, 14:31

We know that extra cars don't depend on the number of available chassises, more on mechanics and other resources needed to run them.

"TOYOTA TEAM ESTONIA"

Those Markko Märtin people can take care of 4th and 5th car. Current Flexi service rules helps a lot.

jbmarcus21

1st November 2018, 14:44

Huttunen first test with i20WRC this week in Spain ... ► bit.ly/2RuqlFI

Japé

1st November 2018, 16:14

Comments to earlier sponsor related discussion. Microsoft is more like tech partner for Toyota (WRC and before in F1), there is even Toyota WRC (sales)films made how the partnership benefits both parties. Qatar I just forgot, but based to quick look of few older WRC photos, it really seems that previous non-automotive related sponsors were Marlboro with Peugeot in '05, '04 (and with Mitzubishi before that) and Movistar Telefonica (linked to Sainz) with Citroën and Ford, so quite a while ago. Might there be rules nowadays in WRC (like in F1) that all cars in the team must have a same outlook?

What comes to Katsuta, I would have thought that Toyota would have been more interested about his success in Rally Japan 2020 which would have meant 2019 calendar for him more like a Monte, Tour de Corse, Germany and Catalonia.

Mirek

1st November 2018, 16:35

Comments to earlier sponsor related discussion. Microsoft is more like tech partner for Toyota (WRC and before in F1), there is even Toyota WRC (sales)films made how the partnership benefits both parties. Qatar I just forgot, but based to quick look of few older WRC photos, it really seems that previous non-automotive related sponsors were Marlboro with Peugeot in '05, '04 (and with Mitzubishi before that) and Movistar Telefonica (linked to Sainz) with Citroën and Ford, so quite a while ago. Might there be rules nowadays in WRC (like in F1) that all cars in the team must have a same outlook?.

RedBull, DMG Mori, Monster, Certina, Abu Dhabi, Jipocar, Stobart, DC, Tools, EuroLoto, Mentos etc. are certainly not automotive branches and they were or still are active in WRC.

Tarmop

1st November 2018, 16:35

racerx1979

1st November 2018, 16:54

https://www.rallit.fi/citroenin-wrc-tiimi-jahtaa-todellista-jattipottia-ensi-mm-kaudeksi/

Pierre Budar says they will have Red Bull sponsorship next year, but Abu Dhabi is still under negotiations. Budar says he would like to have both.

He also says their main target for 2019 will be drivers championship, and that having Loeb in the third car won't be a money issue :D

I heard Loeb was and has been getting a salary through PSA even when he is not participating in any form of Motorsport. With that being said he would have to get paid a good amount of money to leave and do a drive for MSport.

TWRC

1st November 2018, 16:54

https://www.rallit.fi/citroenin-wrc-tiimi-jahtaa-todellista-jattipottia-ensi-mm-kaudeksi/

Pierre Budar says they will have Red Bull sponsorship next year, but Abu Dhabi is still under negotiations. Budar says he would like to have both.

He also says their main target for 2019 will be drivers championship, and that having Loeb in the third car won't be a money issue :D
So maybe 2 cars will have Red Bull colors, and the 3rd Abu Dhabi? :D

Mirek

1st November 2018, 17:22

No (probably), Evans was an official M-Sport driver last year in a DMack coloured car.

Mirek, it was about title/main sponsors, none of them are that for a works team. Some are sponsors/owned by privateers etc.

Abu Dhabi was title sponsor of Citroën, RedBull Škoda in 2006 and a main sponsor of VW 2013-2016, Stobart was an owner of a semi-works team, DMG Mori is the second biggest sponsor of Toyota, not a title sponsor but a big one.

I also forgot Gauloisses as a main sponsor of Kronos/Citroën in 2006.

AnttiL

1st November 2018, 17:35

So maybe 2 cars will have Red Bull colors, and the 3rd Abu Dhabi? :D

I still stand in my silly season prediction that AD goes over to M-Sport ;)

Allez Andruet

1st November 2018, 17:49

I heard Loeb was and has been getting a salary through PSA even when he is not participating in any form of Motorsport.

Not to be an a-hole, but when Loeb hasn't been involved in any form of motorsport?

racerx1979

1st November 2018, 19:32

Not to be an a-hole, but when Loeb hasn't been involved in any form of motorsport?

rarely ..lol

Rally Power

1st November 2018, 19:35

So maybe 2 cars will have Red Bull colors, and the 3rd Abu Dhabi? :D

Whatever the way, I hope Abu Dhabi will manage to continue; it’d be strange to see them leaving when, for the first time, they have a serious chance to get a title with Citroen.

deephouse

1st November 2018, 19:43

Mirek

1st November 2018, 19:47

What about Subaru? What did 555 mean in that days?

555 is a tobacco brand but that's really long time a go when it was involved in rally.

Allez Andruet

1st November 2018, 19:54

555 is a tobacco brand but that's really long time a go when it was involved in rally.

Btw, does anyone know why the '555' logo was allowed during 1993-1995 in countries where tobacco advertising was otherwise banned? Sure the car model was called "Impreza 555" but still - what kind of ruling and by whom was that?

er88

1st November 2018, 19:54

Whatever the way, I hope Abu Dhabi will manage to continue; it’d be strange to see them leaving when, for the first time, they have a serious chance to get a title with Citroen.It's better for the sport if Msport get the Abu Dhabi money. Citroen are locked in for the next two/three years regardless, and now have the red bull backing that Msport relied upon in the last two years.

Ostberg would bring money and he could maybe share a car with Loeb if they're scrounging for extra money that badly.

That's a team that could win the manufacturers title; Ogier, Lappi, Loeb/Ostberg - but maybe Loeb and Ostberg both want to do more than 6/7events so that arrangement might not work.

OHL

1st November 2018, 20:21

Btw, does anyone know why the '555' logo was allowed during 1993-1995 in countries where tobacco advertising was otherwise banned? Sure the car model was called "Impreza 555" but still - what kind of ruling and by whom was that?

Subaru did that to get around the ban on tobacco advertising. By making it part of the model name it wasn't technically advertising even thought it really was. If Mitsubishi had renamed the Lancer to be a Lancer Marlboro it would have been the same thing.

Tarmop

1st November 2018, 20:23

AnttiL

1st November 2018, 20:27

Allez Andruet

1st November 2018, 20:48

One explanation I've heard is that 555 wasn't sold in Europe at the time.

That could be it.

Allez Andruet

1st November 2018, 20:52

Subaru did that to get around the ban on tobacco advertising.

Sure they did, but the interpretation of whatever authority it was, obviously changed during 1995-1996. I'm willing to buy the theory AnttiL presented.

Norm75

2nd November 2018, 08:06

555 is a tobacco brand but that's really long time a go when it was involved in rally.

Yes 555 is tobacco company, part of British American tobacco along with lucky strike. Hence why some of the Subaru's had *555 BAT prefix number plates.

They were also title sponsor of BAR F1 team that ran lucky strike livery. Back in the day when Dave Richards was running BAR they wanted to run one car in 555 blue and yellow livery, and one car in white and red lucky strike livery. This was not allowed by FIA, so one solution was to run the cars with the livery of each tobacco company on each side of the car split down the middle.
This was only used for one or two practice sessions though I believe. (I know it's F1 but kind of interesting)

Franky

2nd November 2018, 08:28

This was only used for one or two practice sessions though I believe. (I know it's F1 but kind of interesting)

They ran it the entire 1999 season.

Norm75

2nd November 2018, 08:37

They ran it the entire 1999 season.

Thanks, wasn't sure. Think it was before Dave Richards time there as well!

tomhlord

2nd November 2018, 10:47

Citroen have Total and Abu Dhabi and now want RedBull aswell. And Still they discuss about 3rd car... They behave like they are not works team. M-Sport could use those kind of sponsorships to stay in the game.

Hit the nail on the head here. It's not just Total, Abu Dhabi and Red Bull, it's the Ostberg's too with OneBet and PMI on the cars (for example Breen in Spain) and paying Citroen to run Mads' car. Yet one rally win all season – I'm baffled about the ROI for those partners.

Allez Andruet

2nd November 2018, 11:06

I'm baffled about the ROI for those partners.
Loeb's win in Catalunya probably got them more media time than any other victory in WRC in 2018.

AnttiL

2nd November 2018, 11:11

Loeb's win in Catalunya probably got them more media time than any other victory in WRC in 2018.

Well I think Meeke's car park excursion in Mexico is still one of the most memorable and often shown moment of the whole 2017 WRC season.

EDIT: Obviously I'm wrong because you were talking only about the 2018 season. In that case I think you're right.

Norm75

2nd November 2018, 11:55

Well I think Meeke's car park excursion in Mexico is still one of the most memorable and often shown moment of the whole 2017 WRC season.

Possibly the only time I've seen or heard anything rally related on British national news programme or radio broadcast, probably since Burns won the championship.
Don't even think Elfyns win at Wales rally GB made the national news, let alone a retired Frenchman winning a rally in Spain.

er88

2nd November 2018, 12:51

Possibly the only time I've seen or heard anything rally related on British national news programme or radio broadcast, probably since Burns won the championship.
Don't even think Elfyns win at Wales rally GB made the national news, let alone a retired Frenchman winning a rally in Spain.Yep, I remember Kris Meeke's drama/win being shown on BBC breakfast. Couldn't believe it.

tomhlord

2nd November 2018, 13:31

Loeb's win in Catalunya probably got them more media time than any other victory in WRC in 2018.

Absolutely, and really positive stuff. But the sponsors aren't paying for just one rally.

dodge33cymru

2nd November 2018, 20:35

can't do Sweden in a Toyota if Katsuta is in the fourth car.Then get him in an R5 Fiesta!

dodge33cymru

2nd November 2018, 20:44

Absolutely, and really positive stuff. But the sponsors aren't paying for just one rally.
They will do if it gets them enough coverage.

Hence teams will do the entire WEC just to be able to run Le Mans.

ROI isn't as simple as just winning again and again; it can be about stories and exposure. The stories like Meeke's off or TiTanak can be worth just as much as some wins. We might think some endeavours like Kubica were a failure but in the markets of his sponsors that car and livery were a household name.

Same with the value in the nationality of certain drivers. Norbert Michelisz is arguably the most valuable driver in WTCC/TCR because anything he achieves is huge news in Hungary because he's the only high profile driver there.

Off topic somewhat, but those are all examples of how winning races/rallies isn't the only way to generate column inches.

Regarding those sponsors, Red Bull's logos are on lots of things, I'm surprised more energy brands aren't into sports like this and endurance racing, but I guess that's because the audience average age is a bit older.

Total have been involved in plenty of French motorsport and the whole sport owes a lot to their backing. They sponsor far lower profile racing than WRC and have a strategy of being associated with any type of motorsport anyone thinks of. I'm a biased case, but compared to the likes of Esso, Total's brand has become massively more prominent over the last 20 years, thanks partially to a wide level of exposure.