Silly Season 2019

[RS]

He have that job at the Volkswagen, always shadow. He doesn't need that.

He would have that job everywhere at the moment, except maybe MSport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier has a 2-year deal. Said by the driver himself during interview with Lequipe.

[mknight]

In a way it's bad news cause it says Citroen is not sure if they are committed in 2021. (or more like Ogier is not sure if Citroen will be committed)

But before Finland most people were expecting Citroen to leave after 2018, so 2 years with real commitment (= Ogier) is quite a step up already.

[dimviii]

Jérôme Bourret
‏


@jeromebourret
Replying to @MarcinZabolski @planetemarcus and 7 others
I can confirm it’s a 2 year deal. Said by the driver himself during our exclusive interview for @lequipe

[Indreq]

With Ogiers move, M-Sport cost base would be significantly reduced for 2019 and i would bet that Malcolm is using this to develope best car for 2020 season and put some money aside with the aim to lure Ott back when his contract ends with Toyota. 2019 season for them would be development and just getting by with cheap or paying guys who might get occasional podium.

[Tom206wrc]

Jérôme Bourret
‏


@jeromebourret
Replying to @MarcinZabolski @planetemarcus and 7 others
I can confirm it’s a 2 year deal. Said by the driver himself during our exclusive interview for @lequipe


Thanks for the info ;)
On most websites I've read they wrote only 2019 for Seb' at Citroën :mark:

[dimviii]

Thanks for the info ;)
On most websites I've read they wrote only 2019 for Seb' at Citroën :mark:

thats why i posted it,it wasnt clear from various websites,including official site and autosport.
Unbelievable amateurs to dont mention that.

[Andre Oliveira]

@Indreq New Fiesta R5 and possible Fiesta R3 should be profitable too.

[racerx1979]

Not to mention new R2 based on the new body style. The R2 is becoming the go-to set up for many regional rally drivers. I'm in the market for an R2T, but waiting to hear about the new R2 which will be announced soon. MSport knows what they are doing...

[Indreq]

@Indreq New Fiesta R5 and possible Fiesta R3 should be profitable too.

Profits from this is the reason why they are able to participate as private team in highest level at all. But that doesnt mean that they are flush with money. But i quess now that Ogiers move is public, rest will announce their movements soon and we can see if my gut feeling is correct or not.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/haydenpaddon/status/1046623851923361792

Paddon’s support merch will remain the same for 2019 so he stays at Hyundai?

[tomhlord]

https://twitter.com/haydenpaddon/status/1046623851923361792

Paddon’s support merch will remain the same for 2019 so he stays at Hyundai?

Good spot.

[jonkka]

Paddon’s support merch will remain the same for 2019 so he stays at Hyundai?

Pics are quite small so text isn't easy to read but it seems to say "Hyundai New Zealand" and not "Hyundai World Rally Team", meaning he may not drive for WRT, at least not in all rallies?

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/haydenpaddon/status/1046690316701577216

Paddon says it shouldn’t affect his WRC deals but difficult to imagine him driving for another team while having local business with Hyundai...

[tomhlord]

Are we expecting the Lappi news this week or after GB?

[Indreq]

Are we expecting the Lappi news this week or after GB?

Didnt Daniel Elena pretty much confirm it already? I heard someone talking about it today, i havent looked for source yet.

[AnttiL]

Citroen Wales press release says Breen and Østberg are _still_ a part of the team ;)

[Tom206wrc]

So no Lappi deal for Citroën in 2019 :confused:

[er88]

Citroen Wales press release says Breen and Østberg are _still_ a part of the team ;)Well ofcourse they are. Just like Ogier is still representing Msport ;)

[Indreq]

So no Lappi deal for Citroën in 2019 :confused:

i looked for source - seems like Daniel Elena is confirming Lappi rumors by attaching finnish flag to his tweet:
1650

[AnttiL]

So no Lappi deal for Citroën in 2019

No, more like ”Craig and Mads not anymore in 2019”

[Allez Andruet]

Talking about silly season, it's obvious we all got it wrong regarding Lappi's next assignment. Instead of signing with either Toyota or Citroen, he seems to be heading to a Finnish bakery, in the role of an export manager.

https://twitter.com/EsapekkaLappi/status/1046725971498463238

1651

[gheeD]

Anybody remember Latvala saying in Turkey that we will definitely hear news of where he will be next year before Wales Rally GB ?

[dimviii]

With just two more WRC events this season after Wales Rally GB, there’s plenty of attention on which drivers will be with which WRC teams in 2019. Paddon and Marshall maintain their focus on finishing the year with the best possible results but are naturally involved in the process. “Discussions have started in the background and we are sure more will become apparent in the coming weeks. We have options and that is the most important thing for now.”

https://alittlebitsideways.co.nz/paddon-and-marshall-aim-for-consistency-in-wales/

[mknight]

Colin Clark's take on current situation for those who haven't heard it yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv_zhhnzHtw&feature=youtu.be

- Praises Budar

I totally agree with that, compared to Matton so far he seems to have fixed most of C3 issues and got Ogier to join (Loeb's performance probably also helped with that). Compare that with Matton taking year off and coming back with both car and driver (Lefevbre for sure) issues while not picking any of the 3 VW drivers. Didn't look like kicking Meeke was his decision, but maybe he used it to argue that he needs funds for Ogier if they force him to kick Meeke.


- He thinks it's risky that Lappi will not be satisfied as 2nd driver at Citroen and says as Ogier he would prefer Breen over Lappi.

That's imo kinda surprising, even to the point when I would call that UK journalist bias.


- Clark sees Meeke as possible at Msport and says rumors say he is willing to drive for free. Mentions also the Toyota rumor but doesn't seem to believe it that much.

- Thinks Hyundai stays the same.

[racerx1979]

I think the free drive was for this year not next year...

[AL14]

Is Hyundai still going with Sordo and Paddon sharing the same car? I think it is not ideal to do that another year, hope they will take a definitive decision.

[AnttiL]

Maybe they take Mikkelsen into rotation as well? However, all three are good on technical gravel rallies, only Sordo has pace on tarmac (and tends to crash)

[mknight]

Don't think they will rotate 3 drivers.

Yes Sordo is fastest on tarmac but last year crashed out in 2 of 4 tarmac rallies, this year 2/3. Not much points from that.

IMO they really need to focus on fixing the car on tarmac. Mikkelsen struggles most relative to C3/Polo, but Neuville and Sordo are also down 2-3 places in tarmac pace compared with last year.

[dimviii]

Last year Citroën negotiated with Ogier about a possible transfer. But then without success. "At that time, Ford seemed motivated and wanted to help us, but I was a little disappointed on this issue, and the anticipated support was not yet available and continued under these conditions was not possible for me," said Sébastien Ogier.

Ogier tried to push the Ford concern: "I gave the Ford an ultimatum: Either we get official factory support, or there's a chance we can decide for an alternative." But no changes have been made to the Ford, so the French has accepted the Citroën offer. "I was sorry to leave Malcolm Wilson and his M-Sport because it was not their fault, but they did everything but Ford did not add."

Meanwhile, the conditions at Citroën have changed significantly - the team picked up as its boss, Pierre Budar. Since January, the team seems to have stabilized. The French driver has a much better relationship with Budar than his predecessor, Yves Matton: "That was one of the reasons that helped me make the decision," the rider agrees.


919/5000
Another important point was the improvement of the Citroën C3 WRC. Ogier did not just track the results, but a secret test was also organized to test Seb's car. "If he is able to drive at least in a front-run competition, you have the impression that he has the potential, but it is clear that it was important to seduce him, and in the test I made an idea and supported my thoughts of trying this adventure."

Ogier had previously revealed that his next contract would be the last one in the WRC. Citroën, the five-time world champion, will be running in the 2019 and 2020 seasons. "To commit to such a project only a year would be a mistake," says Ogier, who wants to achieve what Juhu Kankunen has done. "The idea of winning the title in the cars of three different brands is great and it motivates me. It would be a great way to end my career."

https://rallyzone.autoroad.cz/ze-sveta/93940-ogier-prozradil-proc-opousti-m-sport-a-miri-do-citroenu

[dimviii]

Sebastien Ogier believes his 2019 employer Citroen is ready to do what is necessary to regain its World Rally Championship supremacy after a period of "doing things by half".

Reigning WRC champion Ogier is leaving M-Sport Ford to return to Citroen seven seasons after splitting with the team that had given him his top-level break.

Citroen took Sebastien Loeb to nine straight WRC titles from 2004 to 2012 but has only won seven rallies since then and is currently last in the manufacturers' championship.

Ogier said Citroen team principal Pierre Budar had convinced him that things were now changing.

"Citroen comes out of a difficult period in rallying and I felt this year, more than the previous years, a desire to really give myself the means to find the level which was that of Citroen a few years ago: to do things well or not to do them at all," Ogier told French newspaper L'Equipe.

"We had the impression in recent years that they were doing things by half.

"It's all about words and it takes a lot of confidence because I cannot guarantee that everything will be the way I want it to be, but Pierre managed to convince me and I feel that we are starting fa great adventure."



Ogier has already tested Citroen's C3 WRC, in secret but with permission from M-Sport, in France.

"Seeing the car at the forefront on some rallies had already given me a good idea of its potential," he said.

"But judging by myself is something important that I wanted to do before committing myself.

"We did it, I was able to realise certain elements and this contact reinforced me in my idea to want to try this adventure."

Ogier's previous split with Citroen at the end of 2011 came amid a troubled relationship with team-mate Loeb.

But with seven years having passed and Budar replacing Yves Matton as Citroen team boss, Ogier said previous events were no longer on his mind.

"I kept only the good memories of that time," he insisted. "It is useless to dwell on the rest, which somehow made me grow up.

"On the other hand, the problems I had at the time were with a general management that is no longer there today.

"With the technical team, it always went well and that's why it was difficult to separate [in 2011].

"I felt at Citroen a new momentum at the management level. The contact quickly went very well with Pierre.

"It was much easier to talk with him than with his predecessor and that's one of the things that convinced me to go in that direction."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139094/ogier-citroen-no-longer-doing-things-by-half

[AL14]

Maybe they take Mikkelsen into rotation as well? However, all three are good on technical gravel rallies, only Sordo has pace on tarmac (and tends to crash)

Imho they have to take a definitive decision. Rotation is never good long term because drivers need stability to perform at their high. This year they made rotation because of contracts but now I think that they have to chose between a constant but limited supply of points with Sordo or giving Paddon another chance to go back to his high. With rotation they will not get neither the first nor the second.
They can also say bye bye to both and bring Huttunen among the big boys to make some experience.

[AL14]

[...]

"It was much easier to talk with him than with his predecessor and that's one of the things that convinced me to go in that direction."



Oups :)

[dimviii]

Imho they have to take a definitive decision. Rotation is never good long term because drivers need stability to perform at their high. This year they made rotation because of contracts but now I think that they have to chose between a constant but limited supply of points with Sordo or giving Paddon another chance to go back to his high. With rotation they will not get neither the first nor the second.
They can also say bye bye to both and bring Huttunen among the big boys to make some experience.

can somebody calculate how much points Hyundai gained from this drivers circulation?

[BigWorm]

can somebody calculate how much points Hyundai gained from this drivers circulation?

The #6 Hyundai has contributed with 84 manu points this season, 45 from Sordo, 39 from Paddon but the latter has one event less. Comparing with Neuville who has 140 manu points it's less, but more than Mikkelsen on 55.'

Hard to tell wheter they would have gained more points with starting Sordo or Paddon every event, only event when one was entered in a satellite entry was Portugal when Sordo drove the #16 Hyundai and finished 4th. Had he been in the main entry he would have contributed 12 manu points instead of Mikkelsen's 6, so it would have been a small gain.

[dimviii]

The #6 Hyundai has contributed with 84 manu points this season, 45 from Sordo, 39 from Paddon but the latter has one event less. Comparing with Neuville who has 140 manu points it's less, but more than Mikkelsen on 55.'

Hard to tell wheter they would have gained more points with starting Sordo or Paddon every event, only event when one was entered in a satellite entry was Portugal when Sordo drove the #16 Hyundai and finished 4th. Had he been in the main entry he would have contributed 12 manu points instead of Mikkelsen's 6, so it would have been a small gain.
thanks for te answer mate.
imho is a succesfull tactic for Hyundai when you consider that this entry gained 84 points when Neuville,the championship leader has 140.

how much points have gained Toyota from his second best placed driver? i dont ask about citroen/ford they are a lot behind at points.

[AnttiL]

45 from Sordo, 39 from Paddon but the latter has one event less.

But both have 5 manufacturer eligible starts. Remember that Paddon was nominated for points in Portugal so Sordo’s fourth place was wasted.

[denkimi]

If you look only at the results, the best strategy for hyundai would be to sack mikkelsen, and give both sordo and paddon a full championship.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Colin Clark's take on current situation for those who haven't heard it yet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv_zhhnzHtw&feature=youtu.be

- Praises Budar

I totally agree with that, compared to Matton so far he seems to have fixed most of C3 issues and got Ogier to join (Loeb's performance probably also helped with that). Compare that with Matton taking year off and coming back with both car and driver (Lefevbre for sure) issues while not picking any of the 3 VW drivers. Didn't look like kicking Meeke was his decision, but maybe he used it to argue that he needs funds for Ogier if they force him to kick Meeke.


- He thinks it's risky that Lappi will not be satisfied as 2nd driver at Citroen and says as Ogier he would prefer Breen over Lappi.

That's imo kinda surprising, even to the point when I would call that UK journalist bias.


- Clark sees Meeke as possible at Msport and says rumors say he is willing to drive for free. Mentions also the Toyota rumor but doesn't seem to believe it that much.

- Thinks Hyundai stays the same.

Pretty pointless KT by C.Clark... told us nothing new factually, just total speculation.

And he said the Ogier announcement timing was strange... and then expained why it wasnt ! (for Ogier).

Nothing about the effect on M-Sport or UK fans directly before their home rally. Also nothing about the real reason for the move ie. Ford not fully backing the team.

BTW, what is behind the Meeke/Wilson fall-out in the past ?

[AL14]

thanks for te answer mate.
imho is a succesfull tactic for Hyundai when you consider that this entry gained 84 points when Neuville,the championship leader has 140.

how much points have gained Toyota from his second best placed driver? i dont ask about citroen/ford they are a lot behind at points.

I don't think you can really compare that. It's quite hard to understand if a full-time driver would have gained more than that. I could reply to you asking you if in the last 10 years the winning manufacturers ever rotate their drivers. Unless maybe some exception none did. But that is not the point. The long term is. Paddon will not be a good driver again driving half year, Huttunen will not get a proper experience if the third car will be shared by 2 other drivers.

[mknight]

thanks for te answer mate.
imho is a succesfull tactic for Hyundai when you consider that this entry gained 84 points when Neuville,the championship leader has 140.

how much points have gained Toyota from his second best placed driver? i dont ask about citroen/ford they are a lot behind at points.

A factor here is that the switching has always put either Sordo or Paddon in good starting position on gravel events, so for the team it's actually good to run split season, as long as they have drivers that accept it. Not good for those drivers in the long term though.

For Toyota
Lappi and Latvala both got 74 teampoints. For statistics like this planetmarcus has the best table:
http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/



If you look only at the results, the best strategy for hyundai would be to sack mikkelsen, and give both sordo and paddon a full championship.

Results:
Number of rallies Sordo retired from with technical issues: 0, number of crashes resulting in retirement 2
Number of rallies Paddon retired with technical issues: 0, number of crashes 1
Number of rallies Mikkelsen retired with technical issues: 4 (2x from 1st place, 3rd and 4th), number of crashes 1

Number of times Mikkelsen was faster than Paddon in same rally 3, faster than Sordo 0
Number of times Paddon was faster than Mikkelsen 1

If anything they should sack Paddon and give Sordo full season.

[mknight]

Pretty pointless KT by C.Clark... told us nothing new factually, just total speculation.


I don't really remember any KT which wasn't just about only speculation. Still worth hearing imo.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I don't really remember any KT which wasn't just about only speculation. Still worth hearing imo.

I like the KT, but considering he had no actual news I would expect him to just discuss the one actual fact - ie. why Ogier moved.

He totally skated over this... no mention of Citroen's new money, any sponsorship deals, if Manu's title is an objective etc etc. Ditto the full effects on M-Sport of losing Ogier and Ford not being fully-comitted.

[tomhlord]

If you expect Mr Clark to provide solid news pre-press release or public interview, then that misses the point somewhat. Speculation and rumours from his connections, plus added opinion, that's what it's for and that all adds (along with this forum thread) to the fun of Silly Season.

[AnttiL]

If you look only at the results, the best strategy for hyundai would be to sack mikkelsen, and give both sordo and paddon a full championship.

But I wouldn’t expect Paddon to score many points on tarmac nor Sordo to do so on fast rallies

[EstWRC]

Clark knows sh*t, and it amazes me since he is working inside the series.

those kitchen tables are a good humour for me.

[T16]

I like the KT, but considering he had no actual news I would expect him to just discuss the one actual fact - ie. why Ogier moved.

He totally skated over this... no mention of Citroen's new money, any sponsorship deals, if Manu's title is an objective etc etc. Ditto the full effects on M-Sport of losing Ogier and Ford not being fully-comitted.

The only facts he ever reports are the ones that are already confirmed by a press release. That’s the same for everyone. Until that point, everything is speculation, whether it be on here or at his table.
He’s good on the radio (well he was) but this kitchen table shit is just him rubbing his ego and loads of fanboys telling him he’s a legend.

[Allez Andruet]

Clark knows sh*t, and it amazes me since he is working inside the series.

I bet he knows, and sure must have "insider information" (as the "inside" is relatively small bunch of people in WRC), but can't release any of that stop the press stuff on KT.

[dimviii]

I don't think you can really compare that. It's quite hard to understand if a full-time driver would have gained more than that.
the point isnt to understand .if a full time driver what he would do,but what the main competitor 2nd placed driver did at the same year.
And Hyundais entry with the duo driver gained more points (till now of course) from Toyotas 2nd placed driver.



I could reply to you asking you if in the last 10 years the winning manufacturers ever rotate their drivers. Unless maybe some exception none did. But that is not the point. The long term is. Paddon will not be a good driver again driving half year, Huttunen will not get a proper experience if the third car will be shared by 2 other drivers.

agree about the drivers,but just wanted to see it from manufacturer side.

[BigWorm]

But both have 5 manufacturer eligible starts. Remember that Paddon was nominated for points in Portugal so Sordo’s fourth place was wasted.

Right, wrong by me.

[AL14]

Clark knows sh*t, and it amazes me since he is working inside the series.

those kitchen tables are a good humour for me.

AFAIK he was (and I guess he still is) paid by the manufacturers, you can't do a proper journalistic job if you are paid by those you have to talk about.

[stefanvv]

Oups :)

The public secret has been revealed.

[AnttiL]

Miika Wuorela is usually very trustworthy

https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/photos/a.143539175845694/879717405561197/?type=3&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARAO8sDgW8x7R8JjbPqPfoBs7swYtj3y gkYQHHloWFD81fd3LWqucWTk15LXdAM9hC_AkPOFwJFlYjH6WT htRdlQ91luKbUL_pSod-O1nIFCQPpBhdMcqktT8RQgC5K0rrQuTcShYDFjKujV49WvK2Un vILH-bvGh-HC_wpL5gyBC45394t3&__tn__=-R


Ace of Pace – World Rally Blog

Busy hands, slow movement

Oh, man! What an autumn it promises to be. And it has already started. Speculation is a really good thing, it keeps the minds of rally enthusiasts refreshed.

I have to admit that I am very eager to write the news among the first but there is a certain limit in everything. Perhaps I was a bit too anxious with the Toyota´s third driver. There are apparently other options too.

There is no reason yet to change my mind in front of pure cold facts. Before we have those, we may continue to throw some very wild punches.

I could say I am a big fan of Kris Meeke and to certain extent I understand the busy hands of my colleagues – especially the British writers. But I may argue a bit – in a sophisticated way.

To what question or need Kris would be an answer at Toyota? He is a flamboyant driver who has a great capability to take risks. Sometimes he succeeds, sometimes not. At Citroen, during 2018 it would have been clever to keep him in the team in all the rallies. Even if it started to be too risky and costly.

Thinking about Toyota gang. Just based on this year, it will most likely continue the same way in 2019 also. Ott Tänak is the favoured diamond in the team. JML has to settle in a supportive role unless he gets a brilliant start for 2019 and Tänak does not.

But the third car…there is no question that it needs to be driven by a trustworthy driver, rather young up-and-coming star. And sorry to say but Meeke is not an answer to any of these needs. It is only a logical thinking from my side. Feel free to have your own well-reasoned opinion – not just copying someone else.

Toyota has offered a drive for an Irishman but the name is not Meeke. It is Craig Breen. The offer is only for one year whereas Malcolm Wilson has offered 2+1 years – and most likely a vastly different position in the team. In Breen´s position I would not need to think twice.

Let´s wait and see. The game is on and soon we will know the facts. It is quite entertaining to read all the different opinions, so let´s enjoy about those as well.

[EstWRC]

Difficult choice I would say.

At M-Sport he would be nr.1 but IMO he still isn’t ready for that.

At Toyota he would be third number but would have no pressure and can develop himself further and choose again at the end of 2019.

[Allez Andruet]

Hmm... interesting. 2+1 from Wilson to Breen sounds a bit over-generous, but what do I know. Breen to Toyota could work, especially as Breen is definitely more of the profile TGR needs than Meeke (as Wuorela nicely pointed out). Anyway, all this just underlines the not-so-well-kept secret that Lappi is heading to Citroen.

[Allez Andruet]

And wouldn't that offer from Wilson to Breen indicate that Evans is out?

[AnttiL]

And wouldn't that offer from Wilson to Breen indicate that Evans is out?

They have three cars. Suninen is confirmed. Still room for both Evans and Breen?

[Allez Andruet]

They have three cars. Suninen is confirmed. Still room for both Evans and Breen?

But that would leave M-Sport with only Suninen (?) paying for his ride... After Ogier and apparent Red Bull exit, how would the financials balance out in that scenario?

[AnttiL]

But that would leave M-Sport with only Suninen (?) paying for his ride... After Ogier and apparent Red Bull exit, how would the financials balance out in that scenario?

What do we know about Evans, whether he's paid or paying to drive?

[mknight]

That indeed is really hard choice (if true). Still I'd pick Toyota as he is guaranteed good teammates for comparison and also very good car. Even if he is slowest in the team he should be getting podiums regularly (with retirements etc.). With Msport he might end nowhere with nobody to compare against.

[tomhlord]

What do we know about Evans, whether he's paid or paying to drive?

Evans hinges on Red Bull, I think. Are they completely going from M-Sport with Ogier or still willing to back Evans too.

[Allez Andruet]

What do we know about Evans, whether he's paid or paying to drive?

I think Evans said in some interview that he doesn't have the financial backing to buy himself a seat in WRC, but that ofcourse doesn't directly answer the question.

[sete]

my opinion
Citroen: Ogier,Lappi,Ostberg,( Loeb\Qassimi 1 or 2 races)
Hyundai : Neuville,Mikkelsen,Sordo
Toyota: Tanak,Meeke,Latvala
M-Sport : Suninen,Paddon,Breen ( Evans wirh R5,few race with WRC )

[AnttiL]

Evans hinges on Red Bull, I think. Are they completely going from M-Sport with Ogier or still willing to back Evans too.

Some source claimed that in 2017 DMack paid the car expenses to M-Sport and Red Bull supplied Evans's personal salary, but I don't remember where I read this so it should remain just as a rumor. And although Red Bull is the main sponsor of M-Sport and Ogier, they are still supporting drivers in many teams (Neuville, Rovanperä etc)

[tomhlord]

although Red Bull is the main sponsor of M-Sport and Ogier, they are still supporting drivers in many teams (Neuville, Rovanperä etc)

Ah yes, this is a good point.

Also, it still interests me that up until this year at least (and he may still do, TBC) Evans had a full-time job in his father's Suzuki and Ford dealership. I don't think he's ever got the point of having a 'full' salary in WRC yet.

[Marcco]

I don't understand this Lappi to Citroen move. He did well in Toyota, Toyota is a fast car, he is Finn in a Finnish team, everything seems to be okay. Is it about money or something else?

[Sulland]

Why not Lappi to Ford as number 1?

The "Iceman" uf rally looks to have the head for a number 1 seat.

[EstWRC]

I don't understand this Lappi to Citroen move. He did well in Toyota, Toyota is a fast car, he is Finn in a Finnish team, everything seems to be okay. Is it about money or something else?

money it seems to me.

i see no other reason as well.

[RS]

They have three cars. Suninen is confirmed. Still room for both Evans and Breen?

Pretty cheap lineup, but also relatively unproven.

Any chance at all to see Latvala back at MSport?

[Simmi]

I don't understand this Lappi to Citroen move. He did well in Toyota, Toyota is a fast car, he is Finn in a Finnish team, everything seems to be okay. Is it about money or something else?

Finns can still fall out with Finns...

[mknight]

money it seems to me.

i see no other reason as well.

Tänak went to Toyota for money and cause he didn't want to act as 2nd driver.

Why is Lappi going to Citroen for money and cause he doesn't want to act as 3rd driver so different?

[T16]

Tänak went to Toyota for money and cause he didn't want to act as 2nd driver.

Why is Lappi going to Citroen for money and cause he doesn't want to act as 3rd driver so different?

Q: Why is Lappi going to Citroen for money?
A: for more money.

[AnttiL]

Money. And something else.

[krissucool]

Tänak went to Toyota for money and cause he didn't want to act as 2nd driver.

Why is Lappi going to Citroen for money and cause he doesn't want to act as 3rd driver so different?

He is not 3rd driver in Toyota. Really think after having a better season then Latvala, being faster than Latvala they would tell him that he is third driver after Latvala?
He is switchg from nr 2 driver in Toyota to nr 2 driver in Citröen.

[Rallyper]

I think Toyota has one #1 driver, Tanak. After him, no what so ever talk about numbers...

[mknight]

From the comments he made in Finland and Turkey about the stalling on breaking it certainly sounded like he felt was not listened to.

[Allez Andruet]

He is not 3rd driver in Toyota. Really think after having a better season then Latvala, being faster than Latvala they would tell him that he is third driver after Latvala?
There are other factors as well. Toyota top management in Japan (alleged to favor JML over Lappi), the chemistry between Mäkinen and Jouhki/Veiby, and who knows what else. I think it's pretty clear we don't know the whole story as 1) Lappi has publicly stated he would like to remain at TGR and 2) contract has been confirmed to be given to Lappi to sign. And yet he seems to be heading to Citroen. For money - sure, but more than likely there's something else as well.

[Duvel]

There are other factors as well. Toyota top management in Japan (alleged to favor JML over Lappi), the chemistry between Mäkinen and Jouhki/Veiby, and who knows what else. I think it's pretty clear we don't know the whole story as 1) Lappi has publicly stated he would like to remain at TGR and 2) contract has been confirmed to be given to Lappi to sign. And yet he seems to be heading to Citroen. For money - sure, but more than likely there's something else as well.

Deal is not yet confirmed right?
Flag of Finland in Elena twitter post was the main source not? Latvalla is also from Finland..

[wrc2017]

Miika Wuorela is usually very trustworthy

https://www.facebook.com/mwmsports/photos/a.143539175845694/879717405561197/?type=3&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARAO8sDgW8x7R8JjbPqPfoBs7swYtj3y gkYQHHloWFD81fd3LWqucWTk15LXdAM9hC_AkPOFwJFlYjH6WT htRdlQ91luKbUL_pSod-O1nIFCQPpBhdMcqktT8RQgC5K0rrQuTcShYDFjKujV49WvK2Un vILH-bvGh-HC_wpL5gyBC45394t3&__tn__=-R
Is this actually a serious post?

[Allez Andruet]

Flag of Finland in Elena twitter post was the main source not? Latvalla is also from Finland..
You haven't been following the silly season, have you?

[EstWRC]

Tänak went to Toyota for money and cause he didn't want to act as 2nd driver.

Why is Lappi going to Citroen for money and cause he doesn't want to act as 3rd driver so different?

you answered your question yourself here.


like many others, I dont also get why he is leaving, i would understand it if he was nr.1 at Citroen. But hey, they know their things better than us.

[er88]

Lappi has apparently been given the future of Citroen. Bide his time, develop and he'll be the man who keeps Citroen in the series post Ogier.
He's quite disheartened by how dominant Tanak has been in the same car, with a year's less experience in the Yaris. Im sure there's a few other reasons on top of that he's not totally happy at Toyota, but it is what it is. A big pay rise is maybe enough at his age to leave one team for another and who can blame him? Money talks

[deephouse]

I don't believe that Ogier will retire after these two next seasons. If he will be in fight for more titles he will surely not leave at at the peak of his career.

[stefanvv]

I don't believe that Ogier will retire after these two next seasons. If he will be in fight for more titles he will surely not leave at at the peak of his career.

He'll win a title with Citroen and go for another team to win the title with. Which will make him indisputable n1 of all times.

[AL14]

He'll win a title with Citroen and go for another team to win the title with. Which will make him indisputable n1 of all times.

How does it make it "indisputable"?

[stefanvv]

How does it make it "indisputable"?

Ouch

[SubaruNorway]

Did Wilson say that M-Sport are considering retiring from WRC on the rally forum tonight?
Rumours are floating around that they are, i missed most of it. Just heard him saying at the end how he could possibly leave this sport after the drama in Turkey...

[AL14]

Did Wilson say that M-Sport are considering retiring from WRC on the rally forum tonight?
Rumours are floating around that they are, i missed most of it. Just heard him saying at the end how he could possibly leave this sport after the drama in Turkey...

Here's the source https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/10/03/nach-ogier-wechsel-wm-ausstieg-von-m-sport/
I don't think he will retire though... He will find a way

[mknight]

Im sure there's a few other reasons on top of that he's not totally happy at Toyota, but it is what it is. A big pay rise is maybe enough at his age to leave one team for another and who can blame him? Money talks

Actually he's not that young (3 years older than Suninen, 1,5 years younger than Mikkelsen).
And he already said last year that he feels he went to WRC too late. Probably low on patience to wait at Toyota.

Which brings up a related issue. In 2017 he was supposed to start from Monte, but Latvala came due to VW exit and he had to wait out 5 rallies. Another reason not to be happy there.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Worrying rumour about M-Sport's WRC future, or lack of it. But if I had to put my money on, it would be on them staying.

BTW, the other info from tonight's Forum was Breen stating he was still in talks but confident of a WRC programme next year. He's not sure where though, so he must have more than one option.

[SubaruNorway]

Video is up https://www.facebook.com/135798096463261/videos/292791081326895/

[tomhlord]

Video is up https://www.facebook.com/135798096463261/videos/292791081326895/

Listen carefully to Craig Breen around the 44 minute mark. He had gone to see his family's Metro 6R4 (Paraphrasing) "when I got a text from Pierre saying that we are announcing Seb to join for next year. So I filled the tank and came back 1hr30 later, I vented my frustration on the back roads in the 6R4."

Why would Ogier joining Citroen be frustrating? Unless of course, that means the budget doesn't stretch for a third car and corroborating the rumour that's Breen is looking elsewhere.

[Rally Power]

Miika Wuorela is usually very trustworthy

Wasn’t he the guy that guaranteed Ogier would retire last year?

Btw: how much can a manager/investor like Jouhki or Veiby (in the case he also advanced cash on an early stage) dictate their drivers future signing choices? Somehow it’s hard to think Lappi would voluntarily leave Toyota just for a bigger check.

PS: fingers crossed for MSport; they’re an iconic WRC team.

[AMSS]

Finns can still fall out with Finns...

This is one big reason I have also heard.. especially lots of people seem to have a hard time getting along with the debuty managing director..

[mknight]

Somehow it’s hard to think Lappi would voluntarily leave Toyota just for a bigger check.



Last year Tänak voluntarily left the team that won both championships to Toyota which basically only had top speed in Finland. For money and better position in the team. If Lappi leaves it's not much different, dispite what Tänak fanboys say.

[dnb]

Last year Tänak voluntarily left the team that won both championships to Toyota which basically only had top speed in Finland. For money and better position in the team. If Lappi leaves it's not much different, dispite what Tänak fanboys say.

Many of us have thought that the conditions and salary in Toyota are very good. But did Tänak also mention that Toyota's and M-Sport's salary was not that different. I wonder if the factory backing does not reflect in drivers' salary and was Latvala maybe overpaid

[Allez Andruet]

This is one big reason I have also heard.. especially lots of people seem to have a hard time getting along with the debuty managing director..

Please Tommi, just show her the door.

[AMSS]

Please Tommi, just show her the door.

Not so easy when they wake up in the same bed every morning.. :) :)

[EstWRC]

Many of us have thought that the conditions and salary in Toyota are very good. But did Tänak also mention that Toyota's and M-Sport's salary was not that different. I wonder if the factory backing does not reflect in drivers' salary and was Latvala maybe overpaid

You really believe this?

I can say the difference is huge

[Tarmop]

I can`t remember him saying that, i remember him saying that he didn`t make that choice only because of money, but because of the role in the team and which parts whose car got.

[Allez Andruet]

Not so easy when they wake up in the same bed every morning.. :) :)

I wish he could just sleep with Kaj Lindström instead.

[krissucool]

Last year Tänak voluntarily left the team that won both championships to Toyota which basically only had top speed in Finland. For money and better position in the team. If Lappi leaves it's not much different, dispite what Tänak fanboys say.

I think nobody can blame anyone for leaving for more money. Nor would I do it for Lappi.
It is just dumb to say he is leaving for better position. He is leaving to be a clear nr 2 to Ogier. How is that different position to Toyota. Would he be the third driver behind Latvala, have to let him past, give better parts for him? The answer is obviously not and he has not done that this season.

He is leaving for the SAME EXACT POSITION.

[AnttiL]

It is just dumb to say he is leaving for better position. He is leaving to be a clear nr 2 to Ogier. How is that different position to Toyota. Would he be the third driver behind Latvala, have to let him past, give better parts for him? The answer is obviously not and he has not done that this season.

He is leaving for the SAME EXACT POSITION.

It's not about that.

[krissucool]

It's not about that.

Well, whatever it is about my point was that it is not about better position in the team when he is moving from being a joint second driver in one team to being a clear second driver in the other.

If it is money, not getting along with team or whatever that is another story.

[spiderem]

so Citroen main lineup next year (ogier - lappi) will have almost no experience with the car. Interesting to see how much it affects their performance, how quick they will be able to get the most out of the car, and how they compare to already established combos.

Tanak was fast straight away with the Toyota, let's see how Ogier and Lappi do.

I wouldn't be surprised if the aim for Citroen is for 2020 to get both championship, and use 2019 as "development".

[pantealex]

When Lappi got offer from Citroen, did he know that Ogier is coming?
(or)
Was the offer for lead driver?

If offer was for 2nd/support driver, what did Citroen answer when Lappi asked "who is 1st driver"?

[tomhlord]

Did Wilson say that M-Sport are considering retiring from WRC on the rally forum tonight?
Rumours are floating around that they are, i missed most of it. Just heard him saying at the end how he could possibly leave this sport after the drama in Turkey...

Fascinating interview with Mr Wilson.

During Turkey, a new rear bumper on each Fiesta WRC at each service stop, £9,000 each. Yeh, no messing about, this is an expensive sport.

Only sold 2x new WRC cars and seen fewer drivers hiring the new machines. Business is tough it appears. A real shame.

My interpretation of his comments is though, that he will retire personally from the WRC team, not necessarily the whole M-Sport team leaving.

[AnttiL]

Only sold 2x new WRC cars

All I wondered was: who bought the other one than Østberg?

[racerx1979]

All I wondered was: who bought the other one than Østberg?

Maybe Ken Block?? He's the only one with that kind of money which comes to mind

[pantealex]

Maybe Ken Block?? He's the only one with that kind of money which comes to mind

Bertelli, Al-Rajhi and many others have money also. Arabs/Middle-East, some private collectors (Kankkunen?), Tommi Mäkinen maybe would like to buy one...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seb's Re-united ?https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2018/loeb-citroen-2019/page/5780--12-12-.html

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Penasee confirmed TN & AM as 1-2 last night and said Sordo had been convinced of a share of the 3rd i20. Still working on who with..

[focus206]

All I wondered was: who bought the other one than Østberg?

Serderidis?

[T16]

Breen has a drive for 2019...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139146/breen-ill-have-a-works-wrc-seat-for-2019

[Allez Andruet]

All I wondered was: who bought the other one than Østberg?

What about the one Bertelli drove last year in Argentina? Could he have bought it?

[EstWRC]

Breen has a drive for 2019...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139146/breen-ill-have-a-works-wrc-seat-for-2019

"It's looking good that I'll have a car to drive - a factory car - in the championship next season."

;)

[dupanton]

Serderidis?

No, that was a rental car.

[Tarmop]

What about the one Bertelli drove last year in Argentina? Could he have bought it?

Used in Wales by Suninen this weekend. https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo/69-ford-fiesta-wrc-17/?car=1660

There`s no mark of another privatelly owned car apart from Ostbergs, but i wonder, maybe OMSE`s and Ford performance`s joint venture in WRX is based on a WRC? If Block had one, we would have seen it already.

[racerx1979]

What about Armin Kremer?

[Tarmop]

Probably would have used it and would use it in Australia instead of a Fabia. No indications of that.

Maybe Yazeed ordered one after losing mk7 in Turkey?

[tomhlord]

There's nothing to say that the owner has taken delivery yet.

[AnttiL]

Alain Penasse said in the Rally Forum that they think the split car has been succesfull as Sordo and Paddon together have made more manu points than Mikkelsen. He also said they have convinced Sordo to continue half season, but they need to find someone for the other half. Not directly relating, but he mentioned Huttunen has been testing the WRC car behind the scenes.

[RS]

Alain Penasse said in the Rally Forum that they think the split car has been succesfull as Sordo and Paddon together have made more manu points than Mikkelsen. He also said they have convinced Sordo to continue half season, but they need to find someone for the other half. Not directly relating, but he mentioned Huttunen has been testing the WRC car behind the scenes.

Does this mean Paddon out then?

[AnttiL]

Does this mean Paddon out then?

At least not signed yet.

[KKS]

Hiyndai should to think about Motorsport II team. They have many drivers but only 3 seats. Meeke - Paddon - Huttunen must be a good 2nd team... but it's only dreaming

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Alain Penasse said in the Rally Forum that they think the split car has been succesfull as Sordo and Paddon together have made more manu points than Mikkelsen. He also said they have convinced Sordo to continue half season, but they need to find someone for the other half. Not directly relating, but he mentioned Huttunen has been testing the WRC car behind the scenes.

I already said this...


Penasee confirmed TN & AM as 1-2 last night and said Sordo had been convinced of a share of the 3rd i20. Still working on who with..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Breen has a drive for 2019...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139146/breen-ill-have-a-works-wrc-seat-for-2019

No, Craig only said he's confident he'll have a drive next year... it's not confirmed. He re-iterated this to Becs Williams in the press conference.

[racerx1979]

Would not be surprised if some teams go with a shared third driver after seeing Hyundai have somewhat decent results... I sure hope that’s not the case.

[mknight]

It used to be normal that teams were rotating 3rd drivers for events (ex. Panizzi / Rovanpera).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Re-watch the Forum here: https://www.facebook.com/135798096463261/videos/292791081326895/

25 mins in Wilson, Breen and Penasee very interesting.

[mknight]

Here is a controversial thought (I like those):

I don't feel all that sorry when Malcolm complains that he used to sell 16 WRC cars a year now sold only 2 in last 2 years. When business was good for MSport some 5+ years ago there were 2 manufacturers in WRC with 4-5 top drivers. Rest was often paying drivers with less than top skills. To use names, when MSport had good business positions 6-10 would always be the likes of Matt Wilson, Villagra, Kuipers, Al Quassimi, Prokop etc.all om Fiestas. Now you will often find rally winners on positions 6-10 because of the close competition.

Yes 2017 rules and car running cost are part of the reason they don't sell cars but there are also other reasons:

- R5 which is getting as fast as not so old WRCs, is fun to watch and cheap so that there is good number of them in many championships
- with 4 teams there are more spots for "young" drivers so less incentive to pay to drive
- some managers (Veiby at least) don't do the "paying driver" style that usually Msport benefited a lot from

So what is good for the sport is not necessarily good for Msport.... but if that forces Msport to leave WRC it's a problem again.

Msport is also a victim of own success, when they managed to get both titles with much lower factory support than Hyundai/Toyota/Citroen I can totally see how Ford execs were asking why the need to put in more money if they win anyway.

[dimviii]

.. but if that forces Msport to leave WRC it's a problem again.

.

its not going to happen for any reason.
Malcolm just pushes his wills.

[racerx1979]

Breen's comment about taking off on his newly purchased Metro 6R4 to vent his frustration after he heard Seb was on the team must say something. He obviously does not have a solid spot on the team at this point. He may even be sharing a car with Ostberg or someone else if he stays at Citroen.

[SubaruNorway]

Budar seemingly confirming that Citroën will only run two cars next year on All live...

[racerx1979]

Budar seemingly confirming that Citroën will only run two cars next year on All live...

Yep. If Lappi is in Breen will be going to Ford or possibly Toyota. Maybe we have Suninen, Paddon or Evand and Breen at Msport.

[RS]

Breen's comment about taking off on his newly purchased Metro 6R4 to vent his frustration after he heard Seb was on the team must say something. He obviously does not have a solid spot on the team at this point. He may even be sharing a car with Ostberg or someone else if he stays at Citroen.

Maybe he already knew Lappi was coming and when they signed Seb that meant the two full time seats were taken.

Loeb plus pay drivers for the third car maybe.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Just two cars and priority is the Driver's title for Citroen... surprising.

[mknight]

A bit weird to hire Lappi if that is the case imo.

[EstWRC]

Lappi get ready then!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe he already knew Lappi was coming and when they signed Seb that meant the two full time seats were taken.

Loeb plus pay drivers for the third car maybe.

Breen was 'annoyed' last night when M.Wilson was asked if a Brit would be joining a Finn (Suninen) at M-Sport...

[deephouse]

First of all. Again before they even start they want to doom their championship chances with only two cars...


Maybe we have Suninen, Paddon or Evand and Breen at Msport.

And why if M-Sport really retire? (I know Suninen is confirmed but all three drivers at VW were confirmed too but where this went then we all know).

And then again 3rd car reserved for Qassimi, Loeb and maybe Ostberg (if he pays, but he will probably not want that).

Shame for Breen, I really hope he gets a seat somewhere else and Paddon too now with Hyundai playing this little games...

[mknight]

Meh I finally got to watch it cause I was late.. and he said:

"The priority is to get 2 cars as good as possible, able to win" even if that means running only 2.

So that means Ogier + Lappi yes, as he was the best available driver. 3rd car basically if someone brings some money/drives for free.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I'm suprised Ogier would be happy with only one 'wing-man' to take points off rivals.

Plus he is big money to invest by Citroen not to also fight for the Manu's title !

[racerx1979]

There are strong rumors for Loeb already agreeing to do events next year. Not sure of how many. Maybe Ostberg doing a few others. Ostberg the only sub-privateer with enough speed to score points honestly.

Could be a Hyundai type situation which aint too bad.

[deephouse]

If sordo was convinced by Hyundai that means that he don't get any other offer. Either he will accept it or he is out of the WRC squad..

[mknight]

Well taken all together (Sordo "confirmed" at Hyundai) and Breen beeing so unhappy with the Ogier news it does look more and more likely that Meeke goes to Toyota. Only other reasonable option left is Paddon imo.

[pantealex]

Breen beeing so unhappy with the Ogier news it does look more and more likely that Meeke goes to Toyota. Only other reasonable option left is Paddon imo.

How does Breen beeing unhappy with Ogier news mean Meeke is going to TGR ?

Breen could go to TGR ? why not ?

I´m 100% sure that Meeke/Paddon are not only options for TGR

[Tarmop]

Yesterday we could read a rumour , that Breen has an offer from Toyota and M-Sport. TGR=TMG and a local journalist (from a reliable source, generally)...

So really can`t see the connection in that also.:D

[mknight]

How does Breen beeing unhappy with Ogier news mean Meeke is going to TGR ?

Breen could go to TGR ? why not ?



If he already had offer from Toyota he prbly wouldn't care much about Ogier going to Citroen. He might still get it in the future.

[Tarmop]

Would he then be saying out loud, that HE WILL be in a factory team?

[mknight]

He said he will do rallies next year, but sounded like full season is unsure.

[EstWRC]

some serious logic going on here

[AnttiL]

some serious logic going on here

silly season is silly

[KKS]

So why Breen was unhappy when he got an offer to drive no.1 car in championship? Or he try continue to drive no.4 car and be dropped by team for any Loeb fun rally events?

[dimviii]

Seb's Re-united ?https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2018/loeb-citroen-2019/page/5780--12-12-.html

http://forum-rallye.com/uploads/monthly_10_2018/post-365-0-86704600-1538689010.jpg

[Brynmor Pierce]

So glad that many of you have watched the forum, it's been an amazing journey with some great moments in it. Looking forward to a break and seeing you all again in 2020.. Cheers Bryn (the guy from the forum)

[MentalParadox]

So glad that many of you have watched the forum, it's been an amazing journey with some great moments in it. Looking forward to a break and seeing you all again in 2020.. Cheers Bryn (the guy from the forum)

Strange timing for quitting WRC, this is literally the best season in over 14 years!

[Rally Power]

Last year Tänak voluntarily left the team that won both championships to Toyota which basically only had top speed in Finland. For money and better position in the team. If Lappi leaves it's not much different, dispite what Tänak fanboys say.

Do you really believe that being a wingman of a French champ on a French team is a better position for Lappi? Btw, how can you be so sure about the money motivation without knowing (as most people and even the press) the real figures? Honestly I wish Lappi all the best in Citroen if he actually signs, but I doubt his motives are the ones you’re mentioning.


Seb's Re-united ?https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/october-2018/loeb-citroen-2019/page/5780--12-12-.html

Most likely, Budar was just replying in a polite way; Ogier and Loeb running together will hardly happen again.

[racerx1979]

[QUOTE=Rally Power;1193756]Do you really believe that being a wingman of a French champ on a French team is a better position for Lappi? Btw, how can you be so sure about the money motivation without knowing (as most people and even the press) the real figures? Honestly I wish Lappi all the best in Citroen if he actually signs, but I doubt his motives are the ones you’re mentioning.

Well he is either a wingman for Tanak or Ogier. I would choose Ogier and be number 2 over Tanak and JML if all things are equal. I think Toyota has the biggest budget and might have the best car at the moment so that would be a big thing to consider for the long run... It's obviously not an easy decision or we would have already heard from Lappi...

[mknight]

Do you really believe that being a wingman of a French champ on a French team is a better position for Lappi? Btw, how can you be so sure about the money motivation without knowing (as most people and even the press) the real figures? Honestly I wish Lappi all the best in Citroen if he actually signs, but I doubt his motives are the ones you’re mentioning.

.

I have no idea. It's all pure speculation based on public info. After all this is silly season thread.
What I tried to point out is that even if the main motives are money and clear nr2 position it would be totally understandable and similar to Tänak's move a year ago. Risky for sure.

[AnttiL]

https://rallysportmag.com/interview-hayden-paddon-speaks-about-his-future-in-the-world-rally-championship/

Martin Holmes grills Paddon about his next season and the ties to Hyundai NZ

[Allez Andruet]

https://rallysportmag.com/interview-hayden-paddon-speaks-about-his-future-in-the-world-rally-championship/

Martin Holmes grills Paddon about his next season and the ties to Hyundai NZ

He doesn't sound too confident about his WRC future, does he?

[AnttiL]

He doesn't sound too confident about his WRC future, does he?

Julian Porter said yesterday he probably would like to do more events, at least all gravel ones. In that interview he also says he should do some tarmac rallies. I agree. Tarmac is his weakest point and if he stops rallying on tarmac altogether he will never get better.

[wrc2017]

He doesn't sound too confident about his WRC future, does he?

R5

[Esko]

In All Live Morning studio they raised up the rumor of Meeke going to sign for Toyota or M-Sport during this weekend. He has been on his way to "Wales Rally area".

[steve.mandzij]

In All Live Morning studio they raised up the rumor of Meeke going to sign for Toyota or M-Sport during this weekend. He has been on his way to "Wales Rally area".I genuinely doubt Meeke will be back. As much as I like him I don't see why a team would go for such a high risk/cost driver rather than anyone else on the current lineup, or Tidemand.

[Zeakiwi]

A wrc team's forensic accountant may have determined the brand value of the publicity generated by Meeke's vehicular inversions are greater than the material loss of equipment?

[Zeakiwi]

https://rallysportmag.com/interview-hayden-paddon-speaks-about-his-future-in-the-world-rally-championship/

Martin Holmes grills Paddon about his next season and the ties to Hyundai NZ

From the article "There are also a couple of other smaller events in New Zealand. I (will) try to do a couple of small asphalt rallies in New Zealand just to try and get back in the groove on tarmac." - I only see a couple of sprint events at a few race tracks in NZ that would meet that description, assuming the exclusion of the nz tarmac targa, have to wait and see otherwise.

[GravelBen]

From the article "There are also a couple of other smaller events in New Zealand. I (will) try to do a couple of small asphalt rallies in New Zealand just to try and get back in the groove on tarmac." - I only see a couple of sprint events at a few race tracks in NZ that would meet that description, assuming the exclusion of the nz tarmac targa, have to wait and see otherwise.

Does the Port Hills tarmac rally still run? I think Targa run a couple of shorter events as well as the main one too. But you're right in general, there aren't many tarmac rallies in NZ. A few hillclimbs and street sprints but thats not really the same.

[tomhlord]

I genuinely doubt Meeke will be back. As much as I like him I don't see why a team would go for such a high risk/cost driver rather than anyone else on the current lineup, or Tidemand.

Speed, exposure, excitement and WRC-level experience.

[steve.mandzij]

Speed, exposure, excitement and WRC-level experience.To finish first, first you have to finish.

[GravelBen]

To finish first, first you have to finish.

But to get screen-time for the advertisers you don't! I think it was Juha Kankkunen who once said "if you're going to crash make it a big one, in front of the cameras". :champion:

[Brynmor Pierce]

Strange timing for quitting WRC, this is literally the best season in over 14 years!

The forum is run by volunteers and totally unsponsored...neither the teams nor Rally GB pay to run it, so we need time to regroup and try to encourage teams to get back involved with it.

[sollitt]

He doesn't sound too confident about his WRC future, does he?Quite the contrary. He sounds very confident ... probably with strong justification.

[seb_sh]

This turned out to be a quite nice silly season, I've been following it and this thread with interest, to me it's part of the show.

Ogier's move was probably most expected, Ford wasn't delivering and while he doesn't say it I think Loeb's records were always his target. Don't think he can beat them but what he can still do is be champion with 3 different teams so I think that motivates him. Also looks like Citroen will back him strongly enough. Another thing that was rumored and confirmed (in Ogier's interview) is that the management change at Citroen helped make the move possible. Speaking of Citroen it looks like they really want to shake things up and are trying to change the whole driver line-up. It's a shame for Breen, he has been pretty solid but looks like he reached his peak. At the moment it makes sense to go for Lappi and maybe mix it up in the 3rd car: Al Qassimi for budget, Ostberg as a points back-up and maybe a bit of cash and Loeb for the marketing value and points. So Citroen looking strong for next year if they bring a bit more speed to the car.

On the flipside it's looking like MSport will go into "safe mode" as they have done in the past, using young drivers or budget bringing drivers (paying or through sponsors). I think this is very likely and makes sense to me after their recent success to regroup until they find a strong backer. Maybe some other manufacturer could come in.

I think Hyundai will stay the same but everyone who isn't Neuville in that team could be replaceable after next year. At Toyota it's clear Tanak is the de facto leader, he seems to be in his prime, fast and experienced enough to fight for titles. It'll be interesting if Latvala can accept he's the 4th or 5th fastest driver in the championship now and drive for podiums or push like crazy and crash. The question is if Lappi goes who do you bring in? Suninen is confirmed at MSport he would have been the obvious choice for me. Meeke for the speed maybe. If it was up to me I'd get Tidemand if he's available and see how he rises to the challenge.

All this while a three way title fight is going on, the last two years of WRC have been brilliant!

[cali]

The forum is run by volunteers and totally unsponsored...neither the teams nor Rally GB pay to run it, so we need time to regroup and try to encourage teams to get back involved with it.Can you share more about this... What does this mean, will the forum will be shut down or what is the future perspective?

[mknight]

Desborough saying on PS that Paddon "may have a deal" with another team for next year.

So who might that be:
- at Citroen we have Lappi rumors and likely no interest in Asia market (they don't even sell cars in most of the countries), so no
- Msport... well while Ford certainly has interest there I doubt they are in position to "pay" much to anyone, so would have to be local-sponsored deal from AU/NZ
- Toyota, big marketing interests in Asia and probly place after Lappi => to me most likely candidate

[EstWRC]

in my honest opinion, Paddon MUST move to another team if he doesnt get a full year with Hyundai. His progress is just standing still and stagnated with these half ass seasons.

[pantealex]

Desborough saying on PS that Paddon "may have a deal" with another team for next year.

So who might that be:
- at Citroen we have Lappi rumors and likely no interest in Asia market (they don't even sell cars in most of the countries), so no
- Msport... well while Ford certainly has interest there I doubt they are in position to "pay" much to anyone, so would have to be local-sponsored deal from AU/NZ
- Toyota, big marketing interests in Asia and probly place after Lappi => to me most likely candidate

Citroen is very big in China and that is not small market...

[RS]

Presuming the Lappi to Citroen thing is true, it does indeed look like Even management are hooking up with them - Veiby's C3 R5 and his overalls are in works colours in Wales too.

[Tarmop]

Afaik, Citroen was one of the manufactures pushing for Asian competitions because of their market there...

[EstWRC]

so before spain Toyota will reveal their lineup but very cheeky smile from Tommi when asked about Meeke...

[mknight]

Joukhi said on the stream that Latvala has contract and it will be announced in 2 weeks. Sounds like Toyota confirmation to me.

[pantealex]

Joukhi said on the stream that Latvala has contract and it will be announced in 2 weeks. Sounds like Toyota confirmation to me.

it is.

[T16]

it is.

Is it a new contract, or is it the remaining year in the one he signed originally? If it’s the one he signed originally, why does the way they speak about it make it sound like it could potentially be with another team?

[deephouse]

Ah who cares. We have three rivals again in three different cars for next year.

[mknight]

Ah who cares. We have three rivals again in three different cars for next year.

Perhaps you don't remember that just last year Latvala actually led the championship and was in the fight until Poland. Tanak wasn't realistically in the championship fight at any point.
Before the start of 2017 Meeke was by many considered the main favorite.
Going the other way Ogier didn't have the speed in 2017 at all and many were writing him off for this year. Latvala was written off at the end of 2016 after being 3rd fastest Polo.

and we can continue like that...

Things change. To quote Tanak again, nobody knows how fast any car/driver will be next year. Things can move up/down very fast.

So there is no guarantee whatsoever that Neuville, Ogier, Tanak will fight for championship next year.

[gouldy]

in my honest opinion, Paddon MUST move to another team if he doesnt get a full year with Hyundai. His progress is just standing still and stagnated with these half ass seasons.

Agree, If Hyundai cant get it sorted that must be his move to save his career. Love to see him at M-Sport with a full season and a new sponsor? Where is Monster Energy in all this? Red Bull is everywhere in the WRC, Monster Energy going hard in the US in motorsport in general, Nascar, Moto X, World Rally X etc. They are big sponsors of Ken Block and Valentino Rossi when it comes to Rally, but not the WRC? Paddon's hood scoop would go well with the Monster Energy green??

[wrc2017]

Desborough saying on PS that Paddon "may have a deal" with another team for next year.

So who might that be:
- at Citroen we have Lappi rumors and likely no interest in Asia market (they don't even sell cars in most of the countries), so no
- Msport... well while Ford certainly has interest there I doubt they are in position to "pay" much to anyone, so would have to be local-sponsored deal from AU/NZ
- Toyota, big marketing interests in Asia and probly place after Lappi => to me most likely candidate
Ford

[deephouse]

Or Martini...

[Norm75]

Agree, If Hyundai cant get it sorted that must be his move to save his career. Love to see him at M-Sport with a full season and a new sponsor? Where is Monster Energy in all this? Red Bull is everywhere in the WRC, Monster Energy going hard in the US in motorsport in general, Nascar, Moto X, World Rally X etc. They are big sponsors of Ken Block and Valentino Rossi when it comes to Rally, but not the WRC? Paddon's hood scoop would go well with the Monster Energy green??have been thinking the same, MotoGP seems very much a red bull Vs monster series, they sponsor the riders in a bigger way.

[sollitt]

My money is on a full season at Hyundai.

[pantealex]

Is it a new contract, or is it the remaining year in the one he signed originally? If it’s the one he signed originally, why does the way they speak about it make it sound like it could potentially be with another team?

His current contract ends now, 2018. Maybe it has on option for 2019, can´t remember was it originally 2+1 or 1+1 with Toyota.
Latvala can´t say anything, team(s) will announce deal(s).

[AnttiL]

My money is on a full season at Hyundai.

Alain Penasse already said in the Rally Forum that they are doing a split third car.

[Tarmop]

Penasse also said that Huttunen has tried WRC, so could be him learning on some outings...Sordo doesn`t like Finland much, Huttunen on the other hand was born there etc.

[sollitt]

Alain Penasse already said in the Rally Forum that they are doing a split third car.Is that actually what he said? Or just that Sordo happy for half season?

[AnttiL]

Is that actually what he said? Or just that Sordo happy for half season?

Right, he says that the third car this year has been more beneficial in points compared to Mikkelsen and they convinced Dani to do a half season, but he also says the third car is still open and they are "reluctant" to have a shared car - it seems he's contradicting himself on the latter...maybe broken English or I hear wrong?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Right, he says that the third car this year has been more beneficial in points compared to Mikkelsen and they convinced Dani to do a half season, but he also says the third car is still open and they are "reluctant" to have a shared car - it seems he's contradicting himself on the latter...maybe broken English or I hear wrong?

No, thats exactly what he said. It sounded like they will share the 3rd car.

[sollitt]

No, thats exactly what he said. It sounded like they will share the 3rd car."Exactly" or "sounded like"? Seems you're just as confused as AnttiL.

but he also says the third car is still open and they are "reluctant" to have a shared car - it seems he's contradicting himself on the latter... Most likely to be the case. Still water to go under the bridge here yet.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Exactly" or "sounded like"? Seems you're just as confused as AnttiL..

'Exactly' means thats what he said.

'Sounded like' is my interpretation of the meaning.

[er88]

If Paddon has an option to join Msport (which is the rumour), surely he has to take that over staying at Hyundai with the current half season he's getting?

He's also getting smashed to pieces (as is Mikkelsen) by Neuville, who is the clear team leader and dominant driver/personality.

He's stagnated and even if there's less money in it for him at Msport, I feel a full season is essential for him if he ever wants to kick on again.

[mknight]

Lol "smashed to pieces" some new vocabulary there. I liked that so much I had to put it in a spreadsheet, not posting the sheet cause it takes half the page, but feel free to use 2 mins in excel to recheck.


I hereby start the 3 "smashed pieces indexes", listed from smallest pieces to biggest ones ;) All indexes are weighted relative to number of starts and relative to the fastest driver in the team.

a) By the number of stage wins:

1. Evans (11.7%), 2. Suninen (12.1%), 3. Paddon (15.3%), 4. Lappi (25.8%), 5. Latvala (27.6%), 6. Mikkelsen (33%) 7. Sordo (45.8%)

b) By the number of stages leading a rally

1. Evans and Suninen (0%), 3. Lappi (1.3%)., 4. Latvala (2.7%), 5. Paddon (10.5%), 6. Mikkelsen (31%), 7. Sordo (47%)

c) By the number of driver champ points: (manu are kinda unfair, mostly due to superrally)

1. Evans (29.1%), 2. Suninen (40.8%), 3. Mikkelsen (43.9%), 4. Paddon (53.3%%), 5.Sordo (58.2%), 6. Latvala (58.3%) 7. Lappi (61.9%)

And for the ultimate dust-smashed index, calculated as sum of placements in the previous 3 indexes:
(I highlighted those than did full season in 2017 or earlier)

1. Evans (3 points)
2. Suninen (5)
3. Paddon (12)
4. Lappi (14)
5. Latvala and Mikkelsen (15)
7. Sordo (19)

[RS]

He's stagnated and even if there's less money in it for him at Msport, I feel a full season is essential for him if he ever wants to kick on again.

This.

He’s knocking on a bit now too. Never realised he was that old before i Wikied him.

[Toyoda]

Lol "smashed to pieces" some new vocabulary there. I liked that so much I had to put it in a spreadsheet, not posting the sheet cause it takes half the page, but feel free to use 2 mins in excel to recheck.


I hereby start the 3 "smashed pieces indexes", listed from smallest pieces to biggest ones ;) All indexes are weighted relative to number of starts and relative to the fastest driver in the team.

a) By the number of stage wins:

1. Evans (11.7%), 2. Suninen (12.1%), 3. Paddon (15.3%), 4. Lappi (25.8%), 5. Latvala (27.6%), 6. Mikkelsen (33%) 7. Sordo (45.8%)

b) By the number of stages leading a rally

1. Evans and Suninen (0%), 3. Lappi (1.3%)., 4. Latvala (2.7%), 5. Paddon (10.5%), 6. Mikkelsen (31%), 7. Sordo (47%)

c) By the number of driver champ points: (manu are kinda unfair, mostly due to superrally)

1. Evans (29.1%), 2. Suninen (40.8%), 3. Mikkelsen (43.9%), 4. Paddon (53.3%%), 5.Sordo (58.2%), 6. Latvala (58.3%) 7. Lappi (61.9%)

And for the ultimate dust-smashed index, calculated as sum of placements in the previous 3 indexes:
(I highlighted those than did full season in 2017 or earlier)

1. Evans (3 points)
2. Suninen (5)
3. Paddon (12)
4. Lappi (14)
5. Latvala and Mikkelsen (15)
7. Sordo (19)

Love it! the STP index!
Would be cool if a higher number was worse, ie smashed in to more pieces

[mknight]

Love it! the STP index!
Would be cool if a higher number was worse, ie smashed in to more pieces

Smaller number = smaller pieces.

Was party trolling but also an idea for comparing how other drivers in same team do vs the 3 title contenders. Clearly the only one "smashed to pieces" is Evans. Paddon is a bit worse than others but the difference is not huge. (Suninen and party Lappi have much less experience than others so don't mention them)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont think anyone really needed this STP analysis. Just a look at the WRC points tables tells you much the same thing. The lack of results from Ogier's team-mates is glaringly obvious.

However the STP index doesnt take into account Evans' bad luck or the fact that M-Sport is totally centred on Ogier (more testing, new cars, new aero etc.)

[mknight]

Actually it doesn't. Lappi and Latvala look very good when you look at points. But the relative number of stage wins and even more number of stages in lead seem to tell that they are actually not doing all that good relative to the fastest guy in the team.

As to the "bad luck":

Time to introduce "bad luck index". This time it's easy.... technical issue 1 point, technical retirement 2 points, didn't care about weighting it and didn't care about checking much tbh. Don't count "bad luck" in crashes. Higher number=more bad luck.

Mikkelsen 8 (Monte, POR, SARD, TUR)
Latvala 5 (Mex, Sard, GER, didn't give him any points for Argentina or Portugal)
Evans 3 (Tur, GB)
Lappi 1

[GravelBen]

Actually it doesn't. Lappi and Latvala look very good when you look at points. But the relative number of stage wins and even more number of stages in lead seem to tell that they are actually not doing all that good relative to the fastest guy in the team.

As to the "bad luck":

Time to introduce "bad luck index". This time it's easy.... technical issue 1 point, technical retirement 2 points, didn't care about weighting it and didn't care about checking much tbh. Don't count "bad luck" in crashes. Higher number=more bad luck.

Mikkelsen 8 (Monte, POR, SARD, TUR)
Latvala 5 (Mex, Sard, GER, didn't give him any points for Argentina or Portugal)
Evans 3 (Tur, GB)
Lappi 1



Is Mikkelsen's car the same one Paddon had last year? :bonce:

[AnttiL]

We could argue about Mikkelsen's retirement in Monte, was it a result of his off or not?

[AnttiL]

Latest Colin Clark Kitchen Table https://t.co/9Zby5QwIZK

- Suggests Meeke to Toyota is unlikely
- Suggests Toyota should buy Kalle out of his Skoda contract for 2019
- Says Hyundai won't change seats next year
- Says Lappi to Citroen should be announced next week

[Franky]

- Suggests Toyota should buy Kalle out of his Skoda contract for 2019


Why do it, when you can make a contract for 2020 onwards and let him mature for another year on someone else's expense?

[AnttiL]

Why do it, when you can make a contract for 2020 onwards and let him mature for another year on someone else's expense?

I mean, I don't agree with Colin and I know the Skoda contract is sealed for 2019.

[Eric]

We could argue about Mikkelsen's retirement in Monte, was it a result of his off or not?

If thats enough to break a rally car we wouldnt have many cars finishing the rallies. If I remember correctly Nandan had some comments that people were laughing of where he was "blaming" the little detour Mikkelsen had on a parking lot to why the car broke down.
If we look at the rest of the season im pretty sure we can blame the car - not the driver for Monte.

[AnttiL]

Today's David Evans:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpIFbTJWkAEyOO4.jpg

[EstWRC]

what the ....?

really?

[Allez Andruet]

what the ....?

really?

I still think it's more this...


Today's David Evans

...than the story being actually true.

They had a headline (probably by the same journo) about the same time last year about Tänak rejecting Toyota's offer in favor of M-Sport.

[Norm75]

Well, it looks like a set in stone headline. Evans setting himself up to look a right dick if it isn't true.

If so, Kris has slipped in shit and found a tenner! to coin an English phrase.

[AnttiL]

IF this is true, then it must be Breen to M-Sport.

[GigiGalliNo1]

NOT

Toyota has found another wild animal to tame for their barn!

[cali]

Latest Colin Clark Kitchen Table https://t.co/9Zby5QwIZK

- Suggests Meeke to Toyota is unlikely
- Suggests Toyota should buy Kalle out of his Skoda contract for 2019
- Says Hyundai won't change seats next year
- Says Lappi to Citroen should be announced next week
It's unbelievable to me how out of touch this guy can be when is so much involved in this sport. He sounds a lot worse than some of us here. And he has been involved in this sport for many years now. Unreal.

[EstWRC]

like him or not (i personally dont), i remember Evans being only one time wrong recent times and that was last year when he said Tänak rejected Toyotas offer.

He was the first to report in the end of 2015 that Tänak is dropped from M-sport and to join Dmack team. Even m-sport laughed at the news in twitter at that time but in the end it was true.

[T16]

It's unbelievable to me how out of touch this guy can be when is so much involved in this sport. He sounds a lot worse than some of us here. And he has been involved in this sport for many years now. Unreal.

Couldn’t agree anymore. I guess he just gets a load of people believing him and not knowing any better. I’ve got a feeling he won’t be involved with WRC next year anyway.

[Allez Andruet]

It's unbelievable to me how out of touch this guy can be when is so much involved in this sport. He sounds a lot worse than some of us here. And he has been involved in this sport for many years now. Unreal.

Let's keep in mind that the KT is primarily about Colin Clark the WRC media person giving the fans something to chatter about - not Colin Clark the individual telling everything he knows about what's happening behind the scenes in WRC.

[BobJones]

Ah, it's time for more David Evans bashing. And then, when it turns out to be officially announced, posters here forget it was he who broke the news first and claim silly things like 'it was obvious'.

He may have allegedly said something about Tanak previously, but you don't go with such a straight heading on the front cover if you don't know something we don't.

Secondly, the digital edition isn't available quite yet so let's read the full story too before casting aspersions.

[tomhlord]

Today's David Evans:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpIFbTJWkAEyOO4.jpg

He's won rallies at WRC level in the recent past. Fan or no fan, it is interesting for the championship as a whole.

[tomhlord]

Why do it, when you can make a contract for 2020 onwards and let him mature for another year on someone else's expense?

Get in there early? Because I'm sure every team wants a piece of the Rovenpera pie

[AL14]

Anyways, imho nonsense choice for Toyota. Happy for Meeke who is a nice guy but I can't find a valuable reason on taking him into the squad.

[AnttiL]

It's unbelievable to me how out of touch this guy can be when is so much involved in this sport. He sounds a lot worse than some of us here. And he has been involved in this sport for many years now. Unreal.

Could be that these guys have been told less this year than before. In addition to Clark saying Meeke won't go to Toyota just hours before news of an alledged deal break, Becs claimed to the last minute that news of Ogier going to Citroen wouldn't be announced that day.

[dupanton]

Anybody with some connections in the rally world, on a local or international level, knows that often you get some news but you are supposed to not spread it. So even journalist don't always tell the complete truth, I'm sure they often know more then they tell and know it earlier too.

[AnttiL]

Anybody with some connections in the rally world, on a local or international level, knows that often you get some news but you are supposed to not spread it. So even journalist don't always tell the complete truth, I'm sure they often know more then they tell and know it earlier too.

Yeah but why would they contradict the information they have? Becs often tweets something like "something is happening today" or Clark will say "I think he's going to Toyota, that's just my personal view". Or maybe they're doing it on purpose now?

[RS]

I mean, I don't agree with Colin and I know the Skoda contract is sealed for 2019.

Also, if Skoda are coming back to the WRC at some point why would they let him go?

IIRC it was said that Kalle’s contract was 2+1, I would imagine the +1 would be on the proviso Skoda could give him a World Rally Car to drive for 2020.

[er88]

Mknight, I think you should leave the spreadsheets alone tbh. 106pts between Neuville and Mikkelsen is total domination.

Paddon has been totally dominated by Thierry for two years now in these new cars, and the results speak for themselves. Trying to argue against that is weird.

Everyone knows Evans is in the same boat regarding how he compares to Ogier, just on an even greater scale. However Evans has never been on Ogier's level, whereas Paddon and Mikkelsen had been on Neuville's level in the past or had been/seemed to be better at times. How times have changed now though...

That's why I said they've both been smashed to pieces by Thierry. They look beaten and lost at times. What the Belgian has done in making them both look pretty ordinary in the same machinery is impressive - whether you like Thierry or not, or are a Mikkelsen/Paddon fan.

There was a spell where Paddon seemed to be establishing himself as the main man in that team and Thierry was all over the place, but he's turned it around over the last 3yrs. He's made himself the undoubted 1st driver. It's Thierry's team now. Even Mikkelsen who moved to Hyundai to win the title (his words), is back in the same place he was at VW. Getting mostly dominated by the teams 1st driver.

That's one of the reasons I feel Paddon has to move, and I'd feel that way even if he had a full season at Hyundai (although it'd be less critical). The fact he's only been doing half a season makes it pretty important he moves elsewhere imo.

[AL14]

Mknight, I think you should leave the spreadsheets alone tbh. 106pts between Neuville and Mikkelsen is total domination.

Paddon has been totally dominated by Thierry for two years now in these new cars, and the results speak for themselves. Trying to argue against that is weird.

Everyone knows Evans is in the same boat regarding how he compares to Ogier, just on an even greater scale. However Evans has never been on Ogier's level, whereas Paddon and Mikkelsen had been on Neuville's level in the past or had been/seemed to be better at times. How times have changed now though...

That's why I said they've both been smashed to pieces by Thierry. They look beaten and lost at times. What the Belgian has done in making them both look pretty ordinary in the same machinery is impressive - whether you like Thierry or not, or are a Mikkelsen/Paddon fan.

There was a spell where Paddon seemed to be establishing himself as the main man in that team and Thierry was all over the place, but he's turned it around over the last 3yrs. He's made himself the undoubted 1st driver. It's Thierry's team now. Even Mikkelsen who moved to Hyundai to win the title (his words), is back in the same place he was at VW. Getting mostly dominated by the teams 1st driver.

That's one of the reasons I feel Paddon has to move, and I'd feel that way even if he had a full season at Hyundai (although it'd be less critical). The fact he's only been doing half a season makes it pretty important he moves elsewhere imo.

Totally agree with you on everything, and I'm one of them who don't like Neuville. Paddon has to move indeed. I've always thought that Toyota would have been the best solution available for him but now that they have taken Meeke I don't think it will be an option again.

[er88]

Anyways, imho nonsense choice for Toyota. Happy for Meeke who is a nice guy but I can't find a valuable reason on taking him into the squad.Proven rally winner, one of the fastest drivers in the WRC, can compete at the front on any surface, and Makinen clearly rates him and has tried to sign him twice now.

Clearly some reasons why Makinen really likes him mate. Nobody available has what Meeke has yet. A year + a year's option is what I think the deal is, while Suninen, Kalle and/or Katsuta develop. Seems a good move for Toyota as a stop-gap at least. They already have two reliable pts scorers in Tanak and Jari (who in the last two years has become a more solid driver). Meeke competing for wins on events and crashing on others is not going to be as felt as it was at Citroen, where he had all the pressure on his shoulders to get a good result as no one else in the team was capable.

The only problem I could see is if Meeke goes in there and somehow finds consitency (highly unlikely), and Tanak and Meeke start fighting at the front on many events and tension arises. However Ott in his second year in the Yaris should be pretty comfortable. What an exciting, dynamic line-up Makinen is going for if this is indeed true; 3 drivers potentially capable of winning most events they start.

[T16]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139286/meeke-secures-toyota-seat-for-2019-wrc-return

[AL14]

Proven rally winner, one of the fastest drivers in the WRC, can compete at the front on any surface, and Makinen clearly rates him and has tried to sign him twice now.

Clearly some reasons why Makinen really likes him mate. Nobody available has what Meeke has yet. A year + a year's option is what I think the deal is, while Suninen, Kalle and/or Katsuta develop. Seems a good move for Toyota as a stop-gap at least. They already have two reliable pts scorers in Tanak and Jari (who in the last two years has become a more solid driver). Meeke competing for wins on events and crashing on others is not going to be as felt as it was at Citroen, where he had all the pressure on his shoulders to get a good result as no one else in the team was capable.

The only problem I could see is if Meeke goes in there and somehow finds consitency (highly unlikely), and Tanak and Meeke start fighting at the front on many events and tension arises. However Ott in his second year in the Yaris should be pretty comfortable. What an exciting, dynamic line-up Makinen is going for if this is indeed true; 3 drivers potentially capable of winning most events they start.

Imho with Tanak and Latvala you already have two drivers capable to reach podiums and wins (especially Ott), it would have been much better an agreement with a young driver to give him experience or a middle one like Breen or Paddon that are hungry for achievements and still can improve their career and bring value to the team.

Meeke is Meeke, he maybe can win 1 rally but that's all, there is no prospect. He will crash again. The only valuable reason I can give for this decision is that Makinen has an agreement with Kalle from 2020/21 onwards and took a rally-winner driver with no aim for the far future in the meantime.

[KKS]

Finally Kris found a good team with a good place!
Totally happy for him!

And fck Citroen now! Team moaning team with moaning drivers... perfect underdog!

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139286/meeke-secures-toyota-seat-for-2019-wrc-return

That's the ultimate high risk/high reward move from Tommi, gotta give him credit for that. There would've been easier options available, but then again, a person fond of easy exits probably wouldn't run a WRC team in the first place. Whatever the result (and in the case of Meeke, it can be anything from getting sacked again mid-season to challenging for the title), it's great to have Kris back in business.

[BigWorm]

So is he going to be the odds favourite for the title next year again?

[noel157]

Think the relationship that Tommi had with Colin has a lot to do with this decision. Yes its a massive risk on the face of it however think Tommi will give Kris the tools and the mentoring to do the job. Finland in 2019 is going to be fast!

WRC 2019 just got better.

[T16]

Think the relationship that Tommi had with Colin has a lot to do with this decision. Yes its a massive risk on the face of it however think Tommi will give Kris the tools and the mentoring to do the job. Finland in 2019 is going to be fast!

It may have something to do with UK / European marketing too. These guys are here to sell cars. Sure, he's a rally winner, he probably came fairly cheap too, but he's also very marketable.

[Norm75]

Also being reported on BBC website about Meeke to Toyota

[gheeD]

I'm going to hope its not the truth and wait for official confirmation for Toyota lineup.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

IF this is true, then it must be Breen to M-Sport.

As I predicted after the rally forum attended by Breen and M.Wilson.

Breen's family does have some money which helped him get into the sport following his father. Maybe this plus a sponsor to pay his wages (RB?) could get him into a drive...

Maybe the same as Evans... he gets a wage from his dad's Ford dealership plus RB sponsorship.

If Ford stay and MW doesnt need to pay big Ogier wages then M-Sport could still stay in the WRC.

[the sniper]

As I predicted after the rally forum attended by Breen and M.Wilson.

Breen's family does have some money which helped him get into the sport following his father. Maybe this plus a sponsor to pay his wages (RB?) could get him into a drive...

Maybe the same as Evans... he gets a wage from his dad's Ford dealership plus RB sponsorship.

If Ford stay and MW doesnt need to pay big Ogier wages then M-Sport could still stay in the WRC.

Surely Red Bull are gone. If I were Malcolm I think I'd have tried to roll out some excellent hospitality for Spain and in connection with Block being there, tried to entice the likes of Monster Energy, Sonax or even Ford Performance (USA) to attend and get onboard with the WRC... They'd be a perfect partner for a 'youth' team of Sunninen, Breen, Evans/Tiedemans and occasional Block! Easier said than done though I suppose.

As for Meeke, it doesn't really surprise me that he fits into the picture at Toyota. More so than with Hyundai or Citroen, Toyota in the WRC seems to be much more of a passion project for the organisation, particularly pushed by Akio Toyoda. The whole "Gazoo" thing, backing Tommi in the first place with his 'village team' project over TMG. To me Meeke's character fits perfectly here. Plus, he's getting on a bit. This could be a one year deal, a nice final dance for Meeke, leaving the door open nicely for Kalle to come in 2020...

[Allez Andruet]

As I predicted after the rally forum attended by Breen and M.Wilson.

Breen's family does have some money which helped him get into the sport following his father. Maybe this plus a sponsor to pay his wages (RB?) could get him into a drive...

Maybe the same as Evans... he gets a wage from his dad's Ford dealership plus RB sponsorship.

If Ford stay and MW doesnt need to pay big Ogier wages then M-Sport could still stay in the WRC.

The latter seems to be pretty big IF at the moment. I don't know what the financial input from Ford has been during the past few years when they haven't been in WRC as an official works team, but probably they've covered some of the expenses anyway. If that is about to change, and I don't want to sound disrespectful by any means, but I'm not sure if any wage from any Ford dealership or any money from Breen family is enough to compensate that. If Ford is out, together with RB as a title sponsor, I'd guess we're talking about money around the magnitude of 10M€+ which might be too much to overcome for these fellas. That would probably require some of that Abu Dhabi money...

[cali]

Anybody with some connections in the rally world, on a local or international level, knows that often you get some news but you are supposed to not spread it. So even journalist don't always tell the complete truth, I'm sure they often know more then they tell and know it earlier too.

I understand this, but why to spread some total BS? He has provided us information which is far away from the real situation.

[Tom206wrc]

Finally Kris found a good team with a good place!
Totally happy for him!

And fck Citroen now! Team moaning team with moaning drivers... perfect underdog!


You WILL see Meeke will crash next year with the Toyota too :rolleyes:

[Rally Power]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139286/meeke-secures-toyota-seat-for-2019-wrc-return

Great news; for Meeke, for the WRC and for Toyota. Without the pressure of being a leading driver or a car developer, Meeke can focus only on his driving and hopefully he’ll manage to deliver some good results.


And fck Citroen now! Team moaning team with moaning drivers... perfect underdog!

Don’t be stupid. Meeke owes a large part of his career to Peugeot/Citroen and despite the troubled times what matters now is to have Citroen and Meeke doing well again in the WRC. Fingers crossed for both.


Or maybe they're doing it on purpose now?

Come on…Clark was just guessing, like many other journos are most of the time (this said, I really hope Evans is right on this Meeke scoop).

[EstWRC]

who have been Meekes teammates so far? Sordo, Ostberg and Breen come to my mind.

Hoe did he do against Sordo on Mini days?