Silly Season 2019

[dodge33cymru]

How about VERY silly season?

Probably been discussed before and means nothing, but from Monte Carlo Rally 2019 Rally Guide 1, page 3:

"There is every possibility that a new manufacturer will also be participating in the 2019 World Rally Championship. We will know more before the end of the year."

http://acm.mc/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RAMC-2019-Rally-Guide-1-GB.pdf

It's probably nothing and a misprint, but hey ho, seemed the right thread for it.

On a probably unrelated note, article about the Proton Iriz R5 being in WRC2 at Monte Carlo next Jan:

https://paultan.org/2018/10/19/proton-iriz-r5-bakal-beraksi-di-pusingan-pertama-kejuaraan-rali-dunia-monte-carlo-rally-januari-2019/

[stefanvv]

Porsche.

[BobJones]

Total have been involved in plenty of French motorsport and the whole sport owes a lot to their backing. They sponsor far lower profile racing than WRC and have a strategy of being associated with any type of motorsport anyone thinks of. I'm a biased case, but compared to the likes of Esso, Total's brand has become massively more prominent over the last 20 years, thanks partially to a wide level of exposure.

Which has been drastically reduced in recent years as the current regime at the top are not convienced of the return from motorsport. This is exactly why they are now sponsoring things such as Badminton!

[deephouse]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/11/03/skoda-vorstand-erteilt-wrc-plaenen-vorerst-eine-absage/

Is this the end of our hopes of Skoda being in top league?

[mknight]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/11/03/skoda-vorstand-erteilt-wrc-plaenen-vorerst-eine-absage/

Is this the end of our hopes of Skoda being in top league?
I think this is just aa repeat of the already known fact that they won’t be joining in this rule periode (so until 2021).

In a way it's understandable that they don't want to use time and money on a car where they possibly would need to change a lot 1-2 years later.
On the other hand it often looks like their budget in WRC2 is not far from MSPORT or Citroen budget in WRC.

[deephouse]

Maybe they like winning almost all events (like Volkswagens). In WRC that could be harder. It says that Toyota could be his rival. Are they working secretly on R5 project??

[Allez Andruet]

Maybe they like winning almost all events (like Volkswagens). In WRC that could be harder. It says that Toyota could be his rival. Are they working secretly on R5 project??

There's been some rumors about Yaris R5 and Mäkinen himself has said that it's something they'd like to offer to their customers in the future. In this story (from Feb 2018), Mäkinen says that there's a plan to kick off the project in autumn 2018, and that the "development" (probably meaning the testing) will start during spring 2019. Tommi would also want Hänninen to carry the duties of the main test driver in that project.

https://www.rallit.fi/tommi-makinen-paljasti-toyotan-uuden-auton-aikataulun-hanniselle-luvassa-hommia/

[Rally Power]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/d/2018/11/03/skoda-vorstand-erteilt-wrc-plaenen-vorerst-eine-absage/
Is this the end of our hopes of Skoda being in top league?

If so, that’s disappointing. Officially, current cars will still have a second 3 years cycle (2020-22), even if it was talked it could be shorten to 2 in order to speed hybrids introduction. Maybe then it’ll be VW coming forward to the top league, leaving Skoda restrain to WRC2, once more.

[gouldy]

So why has Hyundai gone silent? Thought Dani Sordo confirmation was supposed to be out last week? Even Paddon has gone silent on the social media. I wonder if Hyundai is waiting for results from Australia from Mikleson to see if he earns that full time seat or shares with Dani. Just a thought!

[AnttiL]

Probably still negotiations undergoing. Huttunen's recent test also could be added in the mix...

[Rallyper]

Even maybe before Australia decision taken and negotiations including Mikkelsen to leave on beforehand? Just my own speculation.

[mknight]

I would say it's the other way around. Waiting how MSport turns out with Loeb, Greensmith, Evans, Breen and Paddon all getting mentioned.

[AL14]

So why has Hyundai gone silent? Thought Dani Sordo confirmation was supposed to be out last week? Even Paddon has gone silent on the social media. I wonder if Hyundai is waiting for results from Australia from Mikleson to see if he earns that full time seat or shares with Dani. Just a thought!

Repeat with me:
MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn, MikkelsEn.
Why lot of people like calling him Mikkelson? haha

Anyways, I think that Hyundai is fully focused on winning the championship and it's not announcing big changes before the championship ends.
For sure any result from Mikkelsen in Australia will not change what he has done thruougout all the year.

[racerx1979]

Wouldn't Mikkelsen himself want to break his contract and leave. I mean the car and setup does not suit his style one bit. Paddon has clearly stated he wants a full drive....

[stefanvv]

Why lot of people like calling him Mikkelson? haha

This one is special - "Mikleson"

[mknight]

Wouldn't Mikkelsen himself want to break his contract and leave. I mean the car and setup does not suit his style one bit. Paddon has clearly stated he wants a full drive....

He can drive it fast on gravel, there is no doubt about that. But there's also the other side.
From his view:
- car let him down 4 times this year (from 1st (2x), 3rd and 4th place), that's a lot
- car has never been competitive in Finland (not a single Hyundai podium, ever)
- he can't drive it fast on 3 tarmac rallies, changes are not getting made to the tarmac car and they only test minimal on tarmac

At this point it's probably better to stay in the contract as seemingly the only available seats are at Msport where Malcolm isn't really eager to pay salary to people and they are likely to fall behind in development in 2019.

[er88]

Wouldn't Mikkelsen himself want to break his contract and leave. I mean the car and setup does not suit his style one bit. Paddon has clearly stated he wants a full drive....Nowhere to go. Toyota/Makinen don't seem to rate him and have no space, and Citroen turned down the chance to sign him twice - end of 2016 and in 2017 when he was available. His only option is Msport but he'd be leaving a big salary at Hyundai, to go to a private team which will lack development (unless big money can be found - maybe Abu Dhabi)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@M-SportLtd
Preparing the stars of the future... @GreensmithGus had an opportunity to test his skills behind the wheel of our top-specification Ford Fiesta WRC last month ⭐ #WRC #FordPerformance https://t.co/0lW2lTH9K8

[dimviii]

?

https://twitter.com/AMikkelsenRally/status/1060096890811883521

[Tarmop]

What? Imho quite normal promo.

[dimviii]

Hyundai will stay with Dani Sordo
According to Spanish March, Dani Sordo will stay in the Hyundai team for the 2019 season. Other teams have also expressed interest in the Spaniard. According to journalists, Citroën was eager to get Dani Sordo this summer. The heads of the French team met with the Spaniard, but no agreement was reached. Ott Tänak also asked the Toyota boss to hire Sordo for next season. In the end, neither of these two teams will win the Hyundai driver.
The Korean team does not want Dani Sordo to leave their ranks. During the German Rally, Hyundai began preliminary talks about the next season. According to "Marc", the manufacturer still has to agree with the driver on which raids the Spaniard will drive. One thing is certain: Dani Sordo will defend Hyundai's colors next year.
http://rallypl.com/hyundai-zatrzyma-u-siebie-daniego-sordo/

[er88]

Reckon Sordo could maybe end up doing 10 events next season if Paddon was to go to Msport. Huttunen could do Sweden, Finland, GB and Australia.

However that team isn't going to win the manufacturers unless Mikkelsen seriously ups his game.

[racerx1979]

How dare you talk about Mikkelsen like that. HE IS STILL LEARNING THE CAR!!

[sollitt]

Reckon Sordo could maybe end up doing 10 events next season if Paddon was to go to Msport. ...The Paddon to MSport story came out of NZ. I wouldn't put too much truck on that. Kiwi 'journalists' still believe in Santa citing Mummy as their reliable source.
Paddon will be at Hyundai next year with near full programme equal status as Mikkelsen.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Would Mr Nandan and Mr Penasse possibly do something like the following ?
14 rallies x 2 cars = 28 starts
28 + 2 rallies with an extra car = 30 starts
30 starts divided by 3 drivers = 10 starts each

[mknight]

Ott Tänak also asked the Toyota boss to hire Sordo for next season.
While I get this is just a rumour I wonder when was that supposed to happen? Between Lappi deciding to leave ND Meeke signing? Or to replace someone?

Funny point about Sordo. He has same speed as last year (I'd even say a tiny bit slower (might be the car it self)).
The difference is that this year he didnt have a single technical issue, while last year he had plenty and this year he didn't start the rallies that he doesn't do well on.

[EstWRC]

are you a robot or do you have some kind of automatic-reply system every time Sordo/Paddon/Hyundai, Mikkelsen/slow and Tänak/Sardegna is mentioned?

every damn time the same damn story.

[GravelBen]

Sometimes I wonder if he works for Even?

[mknight]

are you a robot or do you have some kind of automatic-reply system every time Sordo/Paddon/Hyundai, Mikkelsen/slow and Tänak/Sardegna is mentioned?

every damn time the same damn story.
What the fuck? Like seriously.
This is silly season, there is news about Sordo.
I talk about Sordo. When there were news about Lappi/Breen/Loeb etc I talked about them, every single time.

Just like 5-10 other people always write something when some news come, and just like they already did.

[pantealex]

Meeke said in Keskisuomalainen (local newspaper in Jyväskylä) that he had offers from Hyundai, M-Sport and Toyota. He also likes TGR´s "Team Spirit" ;)

[AnttiL]

Colin Clark's Kitchen Table suggests Gus Greensmith will do a mix of WRC2 and some WRC events (like Suninen in 2017) and perhaps Eric Camilli is doing the same.

[mknight]

That would mean only 1 seat left at Msport and possibly not even that if they go with 2 cars.

I believe Citroen ends with Loeb sharing with either Østberg (if they need money) or Breen (if they don't).

So for Msport it might be between Evans, Paddon or Breen. Hard pick, though I rank Evans lowest from those 3, given this being his 4th full season.

[Tom206wrc]

I would say it's the other way around. Waiting how MSport turns out with Loeb, Greensmith, Evans, Breen and Paddon all getting mentioned.


I can't believe the "story" about Loeb and M-Sport...he's linked to PSA group again in 2019 ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wilson has said they clearly cant do what they did in the last two years and his priority has to be paying the wages of everyone working at M-Sport.

So it sounds like will only be drivers with money and sponsors there in 2019. Evans therefore looks very vunerable...

[AnttiL]

I believe Citroen ends with Loeb sharing with either Østberg (if they need money) or Breen (if they don't).

Breen sharing with Loeb would probably be frustrating for him, Loeb would probably want to do all tarmac rounds.

[kirungi okwogera]

The Paddon to MSport story came out of NZ. I wouldn't put too much truck on that. Kiwi 'journalists' still believe in Santa citing Mummy as their reliable source.
Paddon will be at Hyundai next year with near full programme equal status as Mikkelsen.

Yeah even that aside, it doesn't sound like M-Sport is in no position to support a non-British non-paying driver this year.

[sollitt]

Yeah even that aside, it doesn't sound like M-Sport is in no position to support a non-British non-paying driver this year.

Do you know what MSport are planning for 2019? Or are you just parroting the unintelligentia without any actual information

[dodge33cymru]

Do you know what MSport are planning for 2019? Or are you just parroting the unintelligentia without any actual information

Mate, it's a thread called Silly Season 2019. There is plenty of unfounded speculation in here, that's the nature of it.

Speaking of which, I can't imagine Hyundai and Paddon will part, the two clearly have a good corporate relationship in New Zealand and Mikkelsen's disappointing year and Sordo's increasing age means there's a higher chance of a full-time seat opening for him there in 12 months time.

[kirungi okwogera]

Do you know what MSport are planning for 2019? Or are you just parroting the unintelligentia without any actual information

Just seen quotes from Wilson saying to the effect of "we know we can't do what we've been doing for the past two years with Ogier, our priority is paying our workers and keeping the lights on" - am I misreading that?

[Allez Andruet]

I can't imagine Hyundai and Paddon will part, the two clearly have a good corporate relationship in New Zealand and Mikkelsen's disappointing year and Sordo's increasing age means there's a higher chance of a full-time seat opening for him there in 12 months time.

There's a bunch of other guys challenging for that seat as well. Hyundai didn't sign Huttunen for nothing and Rovanperä will more than likely take one of the WRC seats in 2020 (meaning either Meeke or Latvala will be available). Whatever their program will be, I'd say 2019 is quite a critical year for careers of both, Mikkelsen and Paddon. Sordo's somewhat different in this context as he's not even chasing a full-time seat.

[sonnybobiche]

Anyone have any insight with Paddon/Marshall as to who parted company with whom?

If I were Seb Marshall I would really think carefully about the kind of physical risk that comes from being sat next to Kris Meeke in a very fast car. Not trying to offend the Meeke fans, just being honest. I feel that being Meeke's co-driver is a more dangerous job than being Paddon's co-driver.

[GravelBen]

Well nobody actually involved has confirmed it at all as far as I know, so it might still just be speculation.

That said, if Seb had a good offer for a full season with Kris at Toyota and Hyundai were only offering a part season with Hayden I can understand him taking it.

[Norm75]

Anyone have any insight with Paddon/Marshall as to who parted company with whom?

If I were Seb Marshall I would really think carefully about the kind of physical risk that comes from being sat next to Kris Meeke in a very fast car. Not trying to offend the Meeke fans, just being honest. I feel that being Meeke's co-driver is a more dangerous job than being Paddon's co-driver.
It's Motorsport, all drivers/co drivers know the risks.
If we can believe what Kris has said, in the interview that has been posted on here, that his instruction was to go out and win, in a car that had an inherent design fault, then I believe he will be no more of a risk in the Toyota.
Makinen is not an idiot, he's been there before. He won't be telling his driver's to win at all costs, and the Toyota appears to be more predictable in its handling characteristics than the C3 is, or was.
I understand your concerns, but I think Kris' situation has changed enough for those concerns to be reduced.

However, having said that, I refer back to the first line of my post. Could happen to anyone.

[AnttiL]

Anyone have any insight with Paddon/Marshall as to who parted company with whom?

If I were Seb Marshall I would really think carefully about the kind of physical risk that comes from being sat next to Kris Meeke in a very fast car. Not trying to offend the Meeke fans, just being honest. I feel that being Meeke's co-driver is a more dangerous job than being Paddon's co-driver.

Paddon had a pretty serious accident in Portugal...the Sardegna 2017 one must have also been pretty bad.

[Rally Power]

If we can believe what Kris has said, in the interview that has been posted on here, that his instruction was to go out and win, in a car that had an inherent design fault, then I believe he will be no more of a risk in the Toyota.


In Portugal Meeke was P7 when he crashed and last year huge roll in Argentina took place in Super Rally mode. Some minor off’s also happened when he wasn’t fighting for the wins.

Hopefully, not being Toyota’s leading driver nor responsible for the Yaris development will help him taking pressure off, but we shouldn’t forget his error prone driving started a long way before the C3.

[mknight]

Some codrivers are just a bit crazy. Say for example those sitting next to Novikov after all the crashes that happened cause he just didn't listen.

[er88]

Trying to think of some possible factors from Sebs POV why he'd join Meeke;

Probably more chance of wins with Meeke.
Better pay and full season.
British driver (if that is even relevant)
And if Hayden was to get a full season at Msport, then Seb would be at a full manufacturer team vs a private outfit if he joined Meeke.
Relationship with Paddon might not be the best?

Reasons to stay with Paddon;

Already know each other and have built up an existing relationship. Would be easier choice to stay put.
Paddon is younger, so could have a lot longer in the sport if he can kick on.
Paddon doesn't crash as much as Meeke.


Purely speculative. Also it's possible Seb was going to be replaced further down the line by Paddon anyway, but I doubt it at this stage.

[KKS]

I think that Breen and partly Citroen 3rd car is not possible. Breen told that he would drive a WRC next year earlier than Ogier sign Citoren and Peugueot dropped WRX and let Loeb free. In first Citroen plans it still 2 car 2019 year, and both seats was signed. And Breen on that time have some contract/agreement for 2019 season. Probably with M-Sport.

So 3rd car for Citroen could be Loeb/Ostberg/AlQasimi

[sollitt]

Trying to think of some possible factors from Sebs POV why he'd join Meeke;

You're over complicating the matter. The man was offered a programme by Meeke at a time when there was nothing certain from Paddon.

[sollitt]

So 3rd car for Citroen could be Loeb/Ostberg/AlQasimiThere is another alternative that nobody has mentioned yet but wouldn't be a complete surprise.

[wrc2017]

Anyone have any insight with Paddon/Marshall as to who parted company with whom?

If I were Seb Marshall I would really think carefully about the kind of physical risk that comes from being sat next to Kris Meeke in a very fast car. Not trying to offend the Meeke fans, just being honest. I feel that being Meeke's co-driver is a more dangerous job than being Paddon's co-driver.

if your afraid, motorsport is not for you.

[sollitt]

if your afraid, motorsport is not for you.sonnybobiche's post had nothing to do with anybody being "afraid".

[Grundo Farb]

Doesn't sound too positive:

https://autoaction.com.au/2018/11/13/future-uncertain-for-hayden-paddon-heading-into-rally-australia


Hayden Paddon’s future in the World Rally Championship remains uncertain heading into the final round, Rally Australia.

Entering his final event under his current contract with Hyundai, in which he finished on the podium last year, the Kiwi driver is still yet to confirm his plans for the 2019 season in what has been a busy driver market.

“Your guess is as good as mine, I’ve got absolutely no idea at the moment.” said Paddon when quizzed by Auto Action about his 2019 plans ahead of Rally Australia.

“It’s doubtful we’ll be doing Monte Carlo, regardless of what happens.”

“It’s now just about sitting tight and being patient, and I’m not normally a very patient person so that doesn’t help.”

“Luckily we’ve got a rally to keep us occupied in the meantime.”

[racerx1979]

Busy market? Only option for a full drive is MSport or shared at Hyundai with Sordo...

[sollitt]

Doesn't sound too positive:

Doesn't sound anything other than somebody remaining tight lipped until ink is dry and announcements planned.

[Maui J.]

Regarding Hayden, it does seem he's running out of options unfortunately. I do like your optimism Sollit about him being in a full time drive next year, but looking at the options available it seems like a share-drive with Sordo is probably his best bet. If that is actually on the table.
The M-Sport option is a possibility, but it feels like a pay-to-drive seat, with the driver needing a multi-million dollar sponsorship package for it to happen. Paddon to my knowledge does't have that kind of backing.
If Sordo is content with a part season, then Hayden is the one to share it.
A part time WRC package combined with a possible Hyundai foray into the supposedly revamped 2019 APRC (with either a R5 or AP4 i20) could be his best option.

Don't quote me on the 2019 APRC, I just recently read that moves are in place to resurrect back to his higher profile of the 80/90/00s. Just thinking about his other options.

[sollitt]

Optimism is hardly the correct word. I have little interest one way or the other. But I do believe that there is sufficient information already in the public domain to suggest that much of the speculation aired on these pages is incorrect and that there are more doors still open than is being portrayed.

[CahunaKiwi]

The article mentioned Paddon wanting to be running his own team around the world in the future. I wonder whether perhaps he could be working on a deal along the lines of running as the 3rd car on events Sordo sits out, then running as a fourth car on Sordo's events? Hyundai provide the car/parts and Paddon Rallysport (and sponsors) run the car on the event itself. That could explain the delay in Sordo's announcement as presumably in such a scenario Paddon wouldn't want to do flyaway events with his own team.

Yeah, it's a silly idea, but it is silly season...

[racerx1979]

The article mentioned Paddon wanting to be running his own team around the world in the future. I wonder whether perhaps he could be working on a deal along the lines of running as the 3rd car on events Sordo sits out, then running as a fourth car on Sordo's events? Hyundai provide the car/parts and Paddon Rallysport (and sponsors) run the car on the event itself. That could explain the delay in Sordo's announcement as presumably in such a scenario Paddon wouldn't want to do flyaway events with his own team.

Yeah, it's a silly idea, but it is silly season...

Not too silly. Paddon has had talks with big investors in your land. What that means for his future nobody knows... A fourth car under his own team sounds like a good idea if he can make it work.

At this rate I think he will be sharing the car with Sordo for 2019.

[Zeakiwi]

Probably Paddon could end up with a Petter Solberg/ Citroen Xsara situation, running an old factory car on a tight budget.
I guess if Paddon were to run his own car on events where paddon is not allocated the WRC team car, paddon is probably going to get a slower old spec wrc or R5 to drive to make sure paddon is more likely to finish behind the official team cars. Even then one could potentially expect to see Paddon waiting on the side of the last stage to allow a hyundai team driver (that may have had problems on the event) to catch up.

[sollitt]

Struth! It's little wonder NOT has so much fun with some of you.

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon is almost certain to continue with Hyundai in the 2019 World Rally Championship.No decisions have been made, and no contracts signed, but Hyundai WRC team boss Michel Nandan has given a hugely positive commitment to Paddon’s future.The French team boss, talking exclusively to Speedcafe.com ahead of Rally Australia in Coffs Harbour, says he is optimistic about offering a sixth year to the New Zealander in a Hyundai i20 WRC.“Let’s say, it’s 80 percent,” said Nandan.“I cannot guarantee anything. But it looks like the same again as this year.”Paddon has scored a single win and a further five podium places during his WRC career with Hyundai, including a podium finish at Rally Australia in 2017.But he has been forced to share the third car in the team’s three-car lineup through this year’s championship with Spanish veteran Dani Sordo, usually taking priority on gravel events with his team-mate taking the car for bitumen rallies.The car pooling approach comes as Hyundai is committed to a full program in all 14 events with its two lead drivers, championship contender Thierry Neuville and former Volkswagen driver Andreas Mikkelsen.Nandan’s view is good news for Paddon, who is still waiting to hear from Hyundai.“I know nothing. We’ve been talking for two months and nothing is finalised,” said Paddon.“Do I want to stay? 100 percent. Not just for here in the WRC but also with Hyundai in New Zealand.”Nandan is not planning any contract talks until Rally Australia is done, as his team and leader driver Neuville are both in contention for world title success.“I think we will wait a little bit. We want to put all our effort to the championship. Let’s sort the other things first.”But he confirms that, with more driver moves for 2019 than in any recent season, the shared approach for the third Hyundai works for the team.“For sure the third car will be shared, because it is a good option. It’s true that, even if we have not talked about or fixed anyone for the third car, we do not have a lot of options.”


speedcafe.com

[AnttiL]

Again talk about Camilli trying to get a program to M-Sport for 4-5 WRC rallies https://www.rallit.fi/ranskalaiskuljettaja-yrittaa-paasta-teemu-sunisen-wrc-tallikaveriksi/

[deephouse]

M-Sport is picking a lot of guys lately.

[Alpine-110]

Mikkelsen need Ford, Does not fit the i20.
Ford need Mikkelsen

[racerx1979]

I think it would be safe and good bet to let Mikkelsen and Sordo do the uber ride share together and let Paddon do his thing.

[er88]

Split it up 3 ways. Unfortunately Mikkelsen doesn't deserve two full seasons vs Sordo and Paddon doing half programs two years running. Hyundai have an issue there

[sollitt]

Split it up 3 ways. Unfortunately Mikkelsen doesn't deserve two full seasons vs Sordo and Paddon doing half programs two years running. Hyundai have an issue there

Possibly the most likely solution with Paddon & Mikkelsen doing 12 each and Sordo 6. Paddon won't go to Monte Carlo or Corsica anyway.
If Nandan was only offering Paddon the half season as happened this year and that was his only option the deal would have been done by now.

[tomhlord]

Before SS11 on AllLive, is it me or does Budar talk about discussions are ongoing for Loeb in a fourth car in 2019?

[mknight]

I think it would be safe and good bet to let Mikkelsen and Sordo do the uber ride share together and let Paddon do his thing.

Throwing around numbers of starts is one thing, another is looking at each round. I would guess leadership is interested in getting best results.

Is Paddon a better choice on tarmac? Very doubtfull as he has never been fast on it and his 2017 speed on it is similar to Mikkelsen's this year.
So on the other rallies which ones would Paddon or Sordo do better? Definitely not Sordo in SW, GB or FIN, neither in AUS (both this and last year Mik has good speed).
In Turkey, Sar and Portugal he also had top pace this year as well as with other cars before.

So the real candidates are Mexico (where Paddon has not manage good result yet) and Argentina (where Paddon won in 2016), not many.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Before SS11 on AllLive, is it me or does Budar talk about discussions are ongoing for Loeb in a fourth car in 2019?

He did. Nothing confirmed but there are discussions.

He said he would run his top drivers on all events for the WDC & others (Loeb) to help with the Manus.

Seems the money was the issue and Red Bull should sort that...

[T16]

He did. Nothing confirmed but there are discussions.

He said he would run his top drivers on all events for the WDC & others (Loeb) to help with the Manus.

Seems the money was the issue and Red Bull should sort that...

So, if he did say the fourth car, who is in car 3? Breen?

[EstWRC]

they were talking about 3rd car not 4th

[T16]

they were talking about 3rd car not 4th

Cheers... glad someone is paying attention. Got my hopes up for Breen for a minute.

[able1]

Cheers... glad someone is paying attention. Got my hopes up for Breen for a minute.

Yeah it would be sad if Breen is left without a works seat next season.

[deephouse]

Meh, if Breen have a offer at M-Sport I would take it immediately. He is not apreciated at Citroen and Ostberg also. The car is shitty and the team sucks.

[sollitt]

Throwing around numbers of starts is one thing, another is looking at each round. I would guess leadership is interested in getting best results.

Is Paddon a better choice on tarmac? Very doubtfull as he has never been fast on it and his 2017 speed on it is similar to Mikkelsen's this year.
So on the other rallies which ones would Paddon or Sordo do better? Definitely not Sordo in SW, GB or FIN, neither in AUS (both this and last year Mik has good speed).
In Turkey, Sar and Portugal he also had top pace this year as well as with other cars before.

So the real candidates are Mexico (where Paddon has not manage good result yet) and Argentina (where Paddon won in 2016), not many.You continue to rely on statistics to support your logic. But statistics don't tell the full story. Paddon's goals for this season would have been determined by management prior to his sitting in the car for the first time in 2018. They would have had nothing whatsoever to do with winning stages or winning events. This last weekend has been the first opportunity he's had to go for the doctor and even then it was a measured drive to keep the car in the points and give the team the best chance at the title.
The less said about 2017 the better. The shenanigans that were going on in that team are well known in certain circles.
If you want to get an unimpeded impression of Paddon's actual speed you need to go back to 2015 & 2016 during which time he more than had the measure of both Mikkelsen and Sordo and on a par with Neuville.
Nandan knows that an on form Paddon is the key to them winning any title next year. He also knows that they owe him big time. The only question is whether he has the balls to make the right call.

[KKS]

Is Paddon hope to join M-Sport next year for a full season? But looking at his mojo in Australia it seems not going according to plan.
Did he have an offer for partly season from Hyundai? It's seems now a best option for him.
And it's fully open a door for Craig as a leading driver for M-Sport.

[denkimi]

You continue to rely on statistics to support your logic. But statistics don't tell the full story. Paddon's goals for this season would have been determined by management prior to his sitting in the car for the first time in 2018. They would have had nothing whatsoever to do with winning stages or winning events. This last weekend has been the first opportunity he's had to go for the doctor and even then it was a measured drive to keep the car in the points and give the team the best chance at the title.
The less said about 2017 the better. The shenanigans that were going on in that team are well known in certain circles.
If you want to get an unimpeded impression of Paddon's actual speed you need to go back to 2015 & 2016 during which time he more than had the measure of both Mikkelsen and Sordo and on a par with Neuville.
Nandan knows that an on form Paddon is the key to them winning any title next year. He also knows that they owe him big time. The only question is whether he has the balls to make the right call.
Lots of drivers can be among the very best if everything goes right. Mikkelsen, meeke, paddon, ostberg, sordo, latavala...

But what differentiates the real very bests as ogier or tanak from them, is that ogier is still among the best when things don't go right. Them can start without front bumper of with the wrong tyres and still be at the front. They can drive in dust an dirt, open the road and still win the rally.

Paddon is good, but i can't say he's among the very best.

[sollitt]

Lots of drivers can be among the very best if everything goes right. Mikkelsen, meeke, paddon, ostberg, sordo, latavala...

But what differentiates the real very bests as ogier or tanak from them, is that ogier is still among the best when things don't go right. Them can start without front bumper of with the wrong tyres and still be at the front. They can drive in dust an dirt, open the road and still win the rally.

Paddon is good, but i can't say he's among the very best.No one would disagree that his ability to prevail in difficult situations is exactly what makes Ogier standout as the very best and has done for some years. He is alone in that respect. The rest you could throw a blanket over as all are of similar ability.
But it has also to be understood that the prospect of a competitor succeeding when all is not going right is reliant on the degree of support that they get from their team. If the team is not supportive, or is actually responsible for the difficulties faced, the chance of success is minimal. Statistics don't relate that side of the story.
Who among those you've mentioned will be the next Ogier, able to keep focused and a cool head to come through in times of adversity? I suggest the answer might be in last weekends results.

[AL14]

80%? Did Nandan say that? That's a not fortunate percentage there at Hyundai, I would be worried if I were Paddon...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

they were talking about 3rd car not 4th

He DID mention the possibility of a 4th car.

Three is definite as they compete for the Manu's in 2019.

[Rally Power]

He DID mention the possibility of a 4th car.
Three is definite as they compete for the Manu's in 2019.

Budar English speaking skills are far from impressive; maybe he got a bit lost in the All Live talk.

Anyway, he couldn’t be clearer than he was to L’Equipe (yesterday edition): “Our main goal next year is to get the drivers title with Ogier”. In the same piece it’s suggested the 3rd car budget isn’t granted and neither is the possibility of Loeb doing some rallys. Full article on the end of this page: http://forum-rallye.com/index.php?/topic/35-les-news-du-championnat-du-monde/page-795

[BobJones]

Budar English speaking skills are far from impressive; maybe he got a bit lost in the All Live talk.

Anyway, he couldn’t be clearer than he was to L’Equipe (yesterday edition): “Our main goal next year is to get the drivers title with Ogier”. In the same piece it’s suggested the 3rd car budget isn’t granted and neither is the possibility of Loeb doing some rallys. Full article on the end of this page: http://forum-rallye.com/index.php?/topic/35-les-news-du-championnat-du-monde/page-795

That's good, becuase it wasn't just AllLive when he said 'fourth'. He clearly says it on a recent Autosport podcast too.

[racerx1979]

I hope all the teams can run a fourth car... the more the better!

[AnttiL]

I hope all the teams can run a fourth car... the more the better!

At the current situation, I hope all teams can run three cars.

[racerx1979]

At the current situation, I hope all teams can run three cars.

I think MSport will have 3 cars along with Citroen.

I think MSport will be in the same boat as Citroen with two full time drivers and a shared 3rd car with Greensmith, Block, Surderidis and whoever else Malcom can convince to spend a few hundred thousand to drive a WRC spec machine.

[AnttiL]

I think MSport will have 3 cars along with Citroen.

I think MSport will be in the same boat as Citroen with two full time drivers and a shared 3rd car with Greensmith, Block, Surderidis and whoever else Malcom can convince to spend a few hundred thousand to drive a WRC spec machine.

I think there's still a lot of moving parts like Abu Dhabi and WRC2 Pro. Will the manufacturers put effort into competiting in WRC2 Pro and have maybe ex-WRC drivers having a season split between WRC and WRC2 Pro? M-Sport could have maybe Evans, Camilli and Greensmith alternating between WRC car and the two WRC2 cars. Same could happen at Citroen for Breen and Østberg with Loeb also having some events. And of course Al-Qassimi will have an extra car wherever he goes, but whether it's a third or fourth car, we can only guess.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From how I remember it, he was discussing Loeb and was asked about other driver's and mentioned Breen and then Al-Qassimi.

So that's possibly 5 driver's in total with Ogier and Lappi hence a 4th car would be needed at times.

He also said the Manu's title was a target for 2019. They arent just going for the WDC with Ogier.

[AnttiL]

So that's possibly 5 driver's in total with Ogier and Lappi hence a 4th car would be needed at times.

This year 5 drivers have driven Citroen (Breen, Meeke, Al-Qassimi, Loeb and Østberg) with 2-3 cars per rally. Same last year, except they had four cars in Portugal

[T16]

He DID mention the possibility of a 4th car.

Three is definite as they compete for the Manu's in 2019.

So you are certain that they run three cars on all rounds and additional one on others?

[dimviii]

present from Toyota to Lappi

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181121/66cb9e64ed5cf3a8ec8888f8e8ae563c.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So you are certain that they run three cars on all rounds and additional one on others?

From what Budar said, at the moment, yes.

And they really cant be investing in Ogier and Lappi just to go for the WDC. Citroen needs a return and that means the Manu's title.

[Tarmop]

Budar said some time ago that it is all for the WDC and not the manuf. title. Lappi is supposed to be his good wingman and take away points from others and probably for not a big salary. Quite logical, but with the necessary funding ofc. manuf. title is appealing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Have a watch/listen for yourself on WRC+... his interview is at the start of SS11.

In summary he says:
He's happy to have signed two drivers and to have the #1 on the door
Loeb doesnt want to do the full season - so who can do the other events ?
If they have a 4th car they would need to think how to use it. Is there any point if going for the Manu's title?
If he gets another good (3rd) driver, really he should do all the rallies.
There is still a lot to decide.

https://i.imgur.com/gvQOOIo.jpg

[Rallyper]

To me it´s clear Ostberg will be in 3rd car whole season. Taking manu title clearly needs his consistency. 4th car will be for Loeb when he appear on the wrc-scene.

Breen burnt all his chances and probably could end up at MSport.

[Allez Andruet]

To me it´s clear Ostberg will be in 3rd car whole season. Taking manu title clearly needs his consistency. 4th car will be for Loeb when he appear on the wrc-scene.

Breen burnt all his chances and probably could end up at MSport.

Agreed. And even if it's the third car that is split between Loeb and someone else, they still should go with Östberg.

[rp]

Agreed. And even if it's the third car that is split between Loeb and someone else, they still should go with Östberg.

If Loeb is driving he is certainly nominated to score points and will be the 3rd car. 4th car only then, when Khalid is driving...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mads brings money & sponsors too.

And I dont think he will go back to M-Sport after he said they didnt help him with parts/updates for his 2017 Fiesta.

[Tarmop]

Nothing he said could result in a fight between him and M-Sport. He said that it was pointless to run a private car against factory cars because he doesn`t have the testing possibilities, unlimited access to parts (some even M-Sport had at the last minute like tarmac setup) etc. Going to a rally with ones duffelbag is quite another story and probably costs the same for the whole package from test days with a test car to compeiting.

[Rallyper]

I know Mads situation was the same back in 2012. Didn´t have same parts as Petter and JML.

[racerx1979]

For fu@$ sake let's hope Khalid is not driving. Unless of course he's paying for things... Oh wait nevermind..

[racerx1979]

Nothing he said could result in a fight between him and M-Sport. He said that it was pointless to run a private car against factory cars because he doesn`t have the testing possibilities, unlimited access to parts (some even M-Sport had at the last minute like tarmac setup) etc. Going to a rally with ones duffelbag is quite another story and probably costs the same for the whole package from test days with a test car to compeiting.

I thought there was an interview where Mads mentioned he could not get updated parts until the very minute. He also mentioned support was not all that great at that time.

[Tarmop]

Private operation is a private operation, has been and always will be, even with cars intended to be customer cars (R5). Everything was last minute for M-Sport also, Tänak in no. 2 team car didn`t get the latest- best parts (this year the same with Suninen and Evans), Ogier was obviously the priority. When there were talks about a private Yaris, Mäkinen immediately said that if that is the case, it`s going to be a 17 spec car...or Neuville getting his new aero for AUS17 and new engine mod for AUS18.

Like said, no reason for being offended and not choosing M-Sports official driver package.

[Rally Power]

Have a watch/listen for yourself on WRC+... his interview is at the start of SS11.

In summary he says:
He's happy to have signed two drivers and to have the #1 on the door
Loeb doesnt want to do the full season - so who can do the other events ?
If they have a 4th car they would need to think how to use it. Is there any point if going for the Manu's title?
If he gets another good (3rd) driver, really he should do all the rallies.
There is still a lot to decide.
https://i.imgur.com/gvQOOIo.jpg

Remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay7GFxwnPMs
With due respect, Budar sounds exactly like him. That’s why you should take his ‘fourth’ as a ‘third’…

[Zeakiwi]

Ostberg should see if the Mitsubishi people in Sweden (that did the Mitsi R5) want to put a project proposal to the Nismo or Mitsubishi people to run a semi official works WRC team out of Sweden (like the Solberg/ VW team, Olsbergs, Hansen have done in RX etc)

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/135876/electric-mitsubishi-rally-car-being-developed (soon drop out the batteries, electric motor, inverter etc)

Norway has the electric car marketing angle for Nissan Leafs etc. Le cost cutter is no longer around.

[AnttiL]

I listened to the Budar interviews from All Live and Autosport podcast with headphones. It seems he says something like fird, a hybrid between third and fourth. It could be his French way of pronouncing English. But wouldn't it be weird to talk about fourth car before ever mentioning a third car?

[AnttiL]

From how I remember it, he was discussing Loeb and was asked about other driver's and mentioned Breen and then Al-Qassimi.

Where was this?

[EstWRC]

in his head

[AL14]

in his head

https://i.imgur.com/BnVzcbv.png

[BartM]

Jourdan Serderidis announced his retirement on his Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/SerderidisJourdan/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I thought there was an interview where Mads mentioned he could not get updated parts until the very minute. He also mentioned support was not all that great at that time.

You are correct. Mads was specifically unhappy with M-Sport.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjassa-lisaa-siirtohuhuja-citroen-kuski-yhdistetty-hyundaihin/

Referring to the latest edition of Motorsport News, Finnish rally media rallit.fi is reporting that Craig Breen has been in talks with Hyundai and the team has postponed their driver announcements due to "final minute negotiations" (would be nice to see the original quote though). Favoring Breen over Paddon (if that's the question) doesn't seem to make any sense, but then again, neither did Toyota signing Meeke.

[EstWRC]

Original link https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140252/paddon-eager-to-sort-hyundai-future-quickly

[Andre Oliveira]

And Tidemand? now or never...

[kirungi okwogera]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjassa-lisaa-siirtohuhuja-citroen-kuski-yhdistetty-hyundaihin/

Referring to the latest edition of Motorsport News, Finnish rally media rallit.fi is reporting that Craig Breen has been in talks with Hyundai and the team has postponed their driver announcements due to "final minute negotiations" (would be nice to see the original quote though). Favoring Breen over Paddon (if that's the question) doesn't seem to make any sense, but then again, neither did Toyota signing Meeke.

From results (stage wins, points, points per rally, retirements, anything) I don't know why anybody at Hyundai would consider this - it'd make more sense if Breen was from some key targeted market for Hyundai or something but they're both from sparsely populated countries on the poorer side of developed. Maybe Paddon is wavering about some other offer and they want a backup?

[Allez Andruet]

Definitely agree. Replacing Paddon with Breen just doesn't make any sense. Pure sign of panic - if the story has any credibility in the first place...

[Grutz]

I thought Breen had virtually driven himself out of a job in the last few rallies. Way too many mistakes! I thought his only option may be bringing some budget to M-Sport!

[the sniper]

And Tidemand? now or never...

Only if Erik Veiby/EVEN are willing/able to pay Malcolm. Seems like the right time for all involved. Like you say, now or never I imagine.

[GravelBen]

Definitely agree. Replacing Paddon with Breen just doesn't make any sense. Pure sign of panic - if the story has any credibility in the first place...

I did read a wild speculation that Mikkelsen might be leaving his Hyundai contract as he can't get on with the car etc, nothing to really support the idea (and still other reasons why he wouldn't leave), but if he went to M-Sport then Hyundai could have Paddon full time and be wanting another driver to share with Sordo.

[AnttiL]

Definitely agree. Replacing Paddon with Breen just doesn't make any sense. Pure sign of panic - if the story has any credibility in the first place...

I think the rumor is based on that Breen is interested in Hyundai, not the other way around.

[Japé]

Only if Erik Veiby/EVEN are willing/able to pay Malcolm. Seems like the right time for all involved. Like you say, now or never I imagine.

Maybe Even Management should buy out the whole M-Sport and set Veiby and Tidemand for there 2019 and then add Mikkelsen for 2020 to have 3 driver lineup. In reality private Citroen team might be closer choice with Lappi and Veiby onboard already.

[Myrvold]

Only if Erik Veiby/EVEN are willing/able to pay Malcolm. Seems like the right time for all involved. Like you say, now or never I imagine.

Nope. "Once you pay for a WRC seat, it is expected that you keep bringing money. We are happy to pay for WRC-2, but WRC will not be as pay-drivers". From memory.

[EstWRC]

Nope. "Once you pay for a WRC seat, it is expected that you keep bringing money. We are happy to pay for WRC-2, but WRC will not be as pay-drivers". From memory.

and this is how they will kill Tidemands career....

[RAS007]

Nope. "Once you pay for a WRC seat, it is expected that you keep bringing money. We are happy to pay for WRC-2, but WRC will not be as pay-drivers". From memory.

After all this time, why are M-Sport still unwilling to pay a driver a salary?

[Allez Andruet]

After all this time, why are M-Sport still unwilling to pay a driver a salary?

Yeah, you really have to wonder why is that :rolleyes:

[RAS007]

Yeah, you really have to wonder why is that :rolleyes:

It's not lack of cash.

[Allez Andruet]

It's not lack of cash.

Someone once told me that running a business is not primaraly about giving away cash, but who knows, I might be wrong.

[skarderud]

Someone once told me that running a business is not primaraly about giving away cash, but who knows, I might be wrong.To earn money, you have to invest money. Or pay someone to do the job if you have to.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[kirungi okwogera]

Most businesses find a way to pay the talent that keeps them relevant as a business. This was understood with Ogier, why does it seem so difficult for them to pay (much less to) other drivers?

[GravelBen]

Someone once told me that running a business is not primaraly about giving away cash, but who knows, I might be wrong.

And if you can't do everything yourself, you employ people to work for you. If you don't offer reasonable pay then the best people for the job will go where they are paid and appreciated more.

[RAS007]

Someone once told me that running a business is not primaraly about giving away cash, but who knows, I might be wrong.

So paying a driver a salary is "giving away cash"? I'm pretty sure you don't think that.

[deephouse]

Maybe they are cheap like most big companies...

[AnttiL]

Most businesses find a way to pay the talent that keeps them relevant as a business. This was understood with Ogier, why does it seem so difficult for them to pay (much less to) other drivers?

Ogier was an investment that was expected to give in return championships, and they got three of them in two years. And I'm sure Ogier also brought the Red Bull money into the team.

Meanwhile, investing in Tidemand wouldn't give anything in return. He would most likely have a similar season as Suninen, learning the car and the rallies, learning to drive flat out all the time like the other WRC drivers do.

I still hope he gets the chance next year. It's getting too late...

[spiderem]

Ogier was an investment that was expected to give in return championships, and they got two of them in three years. And I'm sure Ogier also brought the Red Bull money into the team.

Meanwhile, investing in Tidemand wouldn't give anything in return. He would most likely have a similar season as Suninen, learning the car and the rallies, learning to drive flat out all the time like the other WRC drivers do.

I still hope he gets the chance next year. It's getting too late...

Why do you say three years? Actually i would say that they got 3 championships in 2 years.

[AnttiL]

Why do you say three years? Actually i would say that they got 3 championships in 2 years.

just got the numbers wrong with each other, thanks for correcting

[doubled1978]

So paying a driver a salary is "giving away cash"? I'm pretty sure you don't think that.

In the case of Ogier, no it isn't, it has proved to be a sound investment. With the drivers that are available now the driver market has settled after Ogier's Citroen move, I'm not sure I would be rushing out to offer them big salaries. The one that could be an exception would be Rovanpera, if there is a chance to keep him more than 1 season (If the Toyota 2020 rumour is true).

[the sniper]

So paying a driver a salary is "giving away cash"? I'm pretty sure you don't think that.

I'd like everyone at WRC level to be paid handsomely. My main hope for WRC2 Pro is that it increases the money making opportunities and allows more people to make a profession out of this awe-inspiring sport. But if you're running the Bank of Malcolm Wilson, why are you paying good drivers who'd pay you for the same drive? This isn't F1 where performance really pays (and they still have pay drivers), where the difference between finishing 6th or 7th in the manufactures championship can cost a team millions of dollars in prize money, there isn't that incentive in the WRC. In the case of Tidemand, if EVEN aren't willing to pay for his learning year(s) in WRC, why would anyone else be?

We're very lucky now to have a relatively large group of very good B-Tier drivers, but that has turned what should be a buyers market into a sellers market, with even the likes of a manufacturer team like Citroen being able to ask Mads for money, which to my mind is awful and doesn't really do any favours for the rest of the B-Tier drivers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

First M-Sport is a private business and Ford arent giving them full backing, hence Ogier left. Not for more salary but for a better chance of car development.

Secondly M.Wilson paid Ogier out of his own pocket as the business couldnt afford him. This was a one-off for Ogier. No-else was worth the gamble. (And it paid off big time).

Ford needed to back them fully to afford to pay a top driver next year. The wont so Wilson has to protect the business and the peoples jobs.

They are back to being the go-to Team for drivers with backing, as they were when Ford pulled out.

[deephouse]

Still Ogier is payed a way more than any other driver out there. And if Malcolm hire Suninen, Evans and maybe Breen they all three combined will not cost that much like Ogier himself. What motivation is that if they need to pay for a drive. Like you would pay for company that you could work there and not receive anything. Just silly. For me that's a cheap thinking, nothing else.

[Tarmop]

He had Red Bull, Ford Performance and maybe other help, still he said, that they are doing this with his personal savings so no, definitely he can`t afford paying a rookie big salary for learning (no constant good results, broken cars). Especially with a car capable of winning 3 titles.

[denkimi]

Still Ogier is payed a way more than any other driver out there. And if Malcolm hire Suninen, Evans and maybe Breen they all three combined will not cost that much like Ogier himself. What motivation is that if they need to pay for a drive. Like you would pay for company that you could work there and not receive anything. Just silly. For me that's a cheap thinking, nothing else.
its all about demand and supply. there are few works seats, and lots of people who want one. if ford doesn't want to pay to try and win a title, malcolm has no interest in it either.

it's not like working at a company, it's like having a very expensive hobby.

[deephouse]

I'm saying that he could at least pay them (I will make this numbers because don't know reality) Wilson could afford that, no excuse. 10.000-20.000 or more. Seb I believe have 2-3 millions and that is a huge amount per year. Still the drivers need to live. Travels isn't for free, accomodation too, food, clothes, family... If they are in the world level of racing they have not the time to work at the regular jobs.. So that's why I say it's silly. Still Wilson sell promising drivers and make more money that he invest into them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

At the MS-RT Supporters Club at the M-Sport Hospitality we were given a very detailed talk about the cars and also the logistics.

The costs of transport of the cars and all the trucks with fuel, recce cars, parts and staff is absolutely phenomenal.

Without full factory support it is impossible to run a WRC team and pay driver's.

[AnttiL]

I'm saying that he could at least pay them (I will make this numbers because don't know reality) Wilson could afford that, no excuse. 10.000-20.000 or more. Seb I believe have 2-3 millions and that is a huge amount per year. Still the drivers need to live. Travels isn't for free, accomodation too, food, clothes, family... If they are in the world level of racing they have not the time to work at the regular jobs.. So that's why I say it's silly. Still Wilson sell promising drivers and make more money that he invest into them.

Professional drivers get a salary even at M-Sport. The money just comes from sponsor companies or maybe manager investments.

Conversely, most M-Sport drivers, or their sponsors, must pay to drive, to cover the expenses of running a WRC car. In this case it would be silly if Malcolm would pay them for driving. It's like I would go to a restaurant, pay 50 euros more for my meal and then ask for 50 euros per hour salary for eating their food.

However, I don't know if M-Sport has a bonus system for earning manufacturer points or winning etc.

[T16]

Secondly M.Wilson paid Ogier out of his own pocket as the business couldnt afford him. This was a one-off for Ogier. No-else was worth the gamble.

No way he will have taken money from his own pocket.
His business’ reserves will have paid Ogier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Secondly M.Wilson paid Ogier out of his own pocket as the business couldnt afford him. This was a one-off for Ogier. No-else was worth the gamble.

No way he will have taken money from his own pocket.
His business’ reserves will have paid Ogier.

Prove it.

[T16]

Prove it.

Prove he actually paid from his own pocket.
Why the he’ll would he do that, using cash he has paid tax on, when he can use the money in the business?
How daft are you?

[AL14]

Prove he actually paid from his own pocket.
Why the he’ll would he do that, using cash he has paid tax on, when he can use the money in the business?
How daft are you?

I'm not that expert but as far as I know it's completely normal, for an associate, or a owner of a company to invest an amount of his own money to close the balance.

[T16]

I'm not that expert but as far as I know it's completely normal, for an associate, or a owner of a company to invest an amount of his own money to close the balance.

He owns the company. The money belongs to the company.
He will NOT have paid 50% tax on money paid to him then put it back in again.
The company had enough in reserve. Check companies house.
It sounds all nice and fluffy to say Wilson paid from his own pocket, but it just will not have happened that way.

[denkimi]

I'm saying that he could at least pay them (I will make this numbers because don't know reality) Wilson could afford that, no excuse. 10.000-20.000 or more. Seb I believe have 2-3 millions and that is a huge amount per year. Still the drivers need to live. Travels isn't for free, accomodation too, food, clothes, family... If they are in the world level of racing they have not the time to work at the regular jobs.. So that's why I say it's silly. Still Wilson sell promising drivers and make more money that he invest into them.
If you go on a 3 week journey to climb mount everest, do you expect the sherpa's to pay you for it?

Its up to the drivers to find money to live from. If they can find the 5 million or whatever is needed for a full season, they might just ask 5,2 million directly from their sponsors. In the end, if they want wilson to pay them 200k, he will just ask them 200 grand more for a season.

Either your amongst the very best who are in demand by the factory teams, then you get payed because they need you.
Otherwise you're not good enough, nobody will need your service and you have to pay to drive.

[AL14]

He owns the company. The money belongs to the company.
He will NOT have paid 50% tax on money paid to him then put it back in again.
The company had enough in reserve. Chef companies house.
It sounds all nice and fluffy to say Wilson paid from his own pocket, but it just will not have happened that way.

He owns the company but we don't know if it is the only thing he owns. I'm not saying that I fully trust him when he says he has paid Ogier from his own pocket, maybe you are right he has not. But on the other hand it doesn't seem that weird to me if the owner of a company put some money on it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Read this...

Why Ford has to back Ogier and M-Sport
By AutoSport

A Ford Fiesta leads the World Rally Championship with Sebastien Ogier and M-Sport. But that combination will only stay together for 2018 if Ford makes a factory WRC return.
DAVID EVANS is adamant it should do so

Seven rallies, three wins and a 40-point lead in the manufacturers' championship. Oh, and - currently - two of the top three in the drivers' championship.

My fellow bar-dweller got half the story right.

"Good to see Ford back to its best this year," he offered over a beer.

"Yeah," I agreed, wondering whether to bother.

Why not?

"Another pint?"

The thick end of a tenner lighter, I dived in.

"Ford left the World Rally Championship at the end of 2012," I said.

"Yeah, but..."

"No. It's the M-Sport World Rally Team now, a private team with some technical assistance from Ford."

"But what about the stickers?"

"Looks can be - and in this case are very - deceiving."

What followed, as well as more beer than was strictly sensible for a school night, was a potted history of how M-Sport had transformed itself from bit-part world rally player a few years ago to standing on top of the world, with the current king at the head of its table.

"So Ford's not paying for Ogier?"

There was genuine bemusement at the megastar Frenchman's salary being met almost entirely by Malcolm Wilson. A cost that came on top of the multi-million pound investment in a 2017 World Rally Car.

The onset of a single malt brought an somewhat hazy explanation of the WRC being M-Sport's shop window.

"Success on Sunday in Sardinia," I said (although my memory of this part of the evening is a touch fuzzy), "means sales of Ford Fiesta R2s and R5s on Monday."

"R what?"

Enough. Home time.

Next morning, I reflected with some surprise at how far folk remain out of touch with the way M-Sport works. It doesn't help that Ford branding remains so prevalent on the factory Fiesta WRCs.

This issue has been brought back into sharp focus by Ogier's desire to stay put at M-Sport next season.

And why wouldn't he want to? He's 18 points clear in the drivers' race - not quite where he was seven rounds in with Volkswagen last season - but he's come to terms with a new team, new car and a new world.

But he'll only stay if Ford comes back to the table.

What Ford offers right now is technical assistance. Don't get me wrong, such help was invaluable in the preparation of Ogier's 2017 machine, but there's nothing like the investment you'd expect for the publicity garnered from such glories. In fact, there's no investment.

On one hand, it's not hard to see Ford's reluctance to put its hand in the corporate pocket: where's the incentive when it's getting all of this for free?

It's no surprise Ford's Dave Pericak wasn't keen to talk turkey when it comes to Ford's WRC budget.

The frustration is that Ford could make so much more out of the WRC. This is a genuine turn-key operation on a worldwide scale. Throw $30million - probably about the cost of one of its NASCAR teams - in Wilson's direction and the Ford World Rally Team would ape Volkswagen global domination for the next four years.

It's that simple. Ogier would commit long-term, the current championship-leading car would evolve into an even quicker motor and Ford could bask in the glory of a job well done. Nobody need know that it's been done by somebody else.

Is it likely? Who knows? There's been a change at the very top of Ford's tree with Jim Hackett replacing Mark Fields as chief executive officer. Bill Ford Jr has described Hackett as a "transformational leader." Fingers crossed he can transform and return Ford to the top of the rallying world.

Without that - or a potential title sponsor waking up to the massive opportunity open with the M-Sport/Ogier partnership - Wilson simply can't bankroll another run next year.

[denkimi]

I just can't understand why wilson doesn't search for some other marque to be interested. None of the components comes from the standard car, so switching to another bodyshell should not be that big a deal.
And the wrc car is so far from all the other cars that it will not have any impact on his r2 of r5 cars.

Unless of course no other vehicle producer is interested.

[Tarmop]

Not everything is mechanical, relationships matter also.

[deephouse]

Mitsubishi, Subaru, Proton, Skoda...

[tommeke_B]

I just can't understand why wilson doesn't search for some other marque to be interested. None of the components comes from the standard car, so switching to another bodyshell should not be that big a deal.
And the wrc car is so far from all the other cars that it will not have any impact on his r2 of r5 cars.

Unless of course no other vehicle producer is interested.

Remember how Holzer Motorsport developed that beautiful Corsa R5? Or that Mitsubishi R5 from Sweden? Reliable support from a manufacturer is very important, even if it's only about paperwork.

[T16]

I just can't understand why wilson doesn't search for some other marque to be interested. None of the components comes from the standard car, so switching to another bodyshell should not be that big a deal.
And the wrc car is so far from all the other cars that it will not have any impact on his r2 of r5 cars.

Unless of course no other vehicle producer is interested.

Thinking the same here... I’m sure everyone who is a potential entrant is aware of the M-Sport capabilities, but there simply isn’t anyone interested in joining and wanting to outsource... at this moment in time.

[denkimi]

Remember how Holzer Motorsport developed that beautiful Corsa R5? Or that Mitsubishi R5 from Sweden? Reliable support from a manufacturer is very important, even if it's only about paperwork.
Indeed, but if that constructor also pays 50 million or more per year like toyota does, that's even a lot better.

[T16]

There was genuine bemusement at the megastar Frenchman's salary being met almost entirely by Malcolm Wilson. A cost that came on top of the multi-million pound investment in a 2017 World Rally Car.[/B]

Eddie... do you genuinely think this means Malcolm himself paid (what was it? - 6M euros a year) for Ogier, or the M-sport as a company paid?

Yes, I know he owns the company, but there is a marked difference.

P.S... I don't expect you to answer as when you are usually met with a reasoned argument, you seem to go silent for a while, but I would be happy if you do.

[Tarmop]

He said that he is using his personal savings last year, so yeah, why not, chance of a lifetime .

[T16]

He said that he is using his personal savings last year, so yeah, why not, chance of a lifetime .

Hate to do the whole 'provide a link' thing, but can you provide a like to him saying this please?

[Tarmop]

Just pick one wrc+ interview from the end of last year for instance.

[Simmi]

I was waiting for this to appear online. Big story from MN last week. Ogier taking aim at guest drivers - https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140357/ogier-wrc-rules-too-generous-to-guests-like-loeb

Should put the cat amongst the pigeons!

[dimviii]

he still suffers.

[Mintexmemory]

I was waiting for this to appear online. Big story from MN last week. Ogier taking aim at guest drivers - https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140357/ogier-wrc-rules-too-generous-to-guests-like-loeb

Should put the cat amongst the pigeons!
This is the telling quote; ‘"If we bring [guest] drivers, we have to properly select a rally where they come in, maybe it's on Tarmac.’
I would not be surprised if that is part of Ogier’s contract conditions.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There was genuine bemusement at the megastar Frenchman's salary being met almost entirely by Malcolm Wilson. A cost that came on top of the multi-million pound investment in a 2017 World Rally Car.[/B]

Eddie... do you genuinely think this means Malcolm himself paid (what was it? - 6M euros a year) for Ogier, or the M-sport as a company paid?

Yes, I know he owns the company, but there is a marked difference.

P.S... I don't expect you to answer as when you are usually met with a reasoned argument, you seem to go silent for a while, but I would be happy if you do.

Silence ? Some of us have work to do.

Re Wilson's own money: We have heard him say so numerous times and all the rally journos repeat it.

But of course you know better. So what is your proof ?

[deephouse]

Simply they can't score points, that's it...

[Tarmop]

Yep, I can see Ogier and Loeb in Citroen totally work, wihtout any issues what so ever, like they promised. :D

[stefanvv]

Yep, I can see Ogier and Loeb in Citroen totally work, wihtout any issues what so ever, like they promised. :D

It'll work, but for Toyota:D

[T16]

Silence ? Some of us have work to do.

Re Wilson's own money: We have heard him say so numerous times and all the rally journos repeat it.

But of course you know better. So what is your proof ?


You’ve got a job? Why don’t you pay for WRC+ then?

As I asked, do you REALLY think Wilson paid from his own pocket, or do you think the company, M-Sport used its funds to cover Ogier’s salary? Never mind what the journos write, what do you believe?

[racerx1979]

Everyone mad Loeb came in and won in Spain lol.

[racerx1979]

I do like they idea of putting Guest drivers 1st on the road. But if we go back to the Qualifying days this will be a non issue.

[Essaj]

Everyone mad Loeb came in and won in Spain lol.

When Ogier has counted everyone? :)

[AL14]

Ogier is right on this one. Don't forget he was the first to jump in the roof to congratulate Loeb even if he lost a possible advantage of 7 points instead of 3 over Neuville.
Anyway, coming as guest in some rallys can be a big advantage, too big if the guest is a competitive driver.

[N.O.T]

Ogier is right on this one. Don't forget he was the first to jump in the roof to congratulate Loeb even if he lost a possible advantage of 7 points instead of 3 over Neuville.
Anyway, coming as guest in some rallys can be a big advantage, too big if the guest is a competitive driver.

how many guest drivers have you seen being competitive... all of them are laughing stock dogs.

Only Loeb was successful because is Loeb.

[GravelBen]

Where do they draw the line for how many or few events defines a guest driver? If Loeb does 3 or 4 rallies is he still a guest or a semi-regular? If Hyundai run a shared car with Paddon and Sordo doing half seasons again are they both 'guest drivers' too?

Lets be honest, Ogier has always exaggerated the impact of running order when it disadvantages him and been mysteriously silent about it when it helps him.

[wrc2017]

Where do they draw the line for how many or few events defines a guest driver? If Loeb does 3 or 4 rallies is he still a guest or a semi-regular? If Hyundai run a shared car with Paddon and Sordo doing half seasons again are they both 'guest drivers' too?

Lets be honest, Ogier has always exaggerated the impact of running order when it disadvantages him and been mysteriously silent about it when it helps him.

something is up.. this hasnt become newsworthy overnight.

[Essaj]

Don't mind if qualifying stage come back. Atleast then rallies would have to have decent "shakedowns" as stages like we had Spain would be a total joke but i'm not sure if its totally needed since Loeb is the only non regular who is actually able to fight for the wins.

[GravelBen]

I'm undecided on the merit of a qualifying stage.

On one hand it might help avoid the whinging from certain drivers about it being unfair when conditions are less favourable for their road position, on the other hand it adds another advantage (as well as the powerstage) to drivers who are better at pulling out one really fast stage even if they aren't as good at managing pace consistently over a whole rally. Just another step away from traditional rallying toward the short sprint format I guess.

[dodge33cymru]

Urgh, whining about 'guest' drivers is horrible. If you ran in the car all season and have 10 more rounds than a 'guest' under your belt, there's your advantage.

What counts as a guest anyway? Paddon, Sordo, Suninen? Can you not switch drivers mid season any more? This season, seven drivers ran a full calendar; are they the only ones who should score points? If Bouffier wins in Monte and decides not to do any other rounds, when does someone decide his points have to be taken away?

Don't make it like WEC where you can finish 10th in your class at Le Mans and score points for 2nd place because you got beaten by a bunch of cars with less experience and running time than you.

I'm all for qualifying stages, I thought that was a great rule and spectacle (and still is in several other series), but stopping one off drivers from taking points is just childish. What a joke.


IMO

[stefanvv]

stopping one off drivers from taking points is just childish. What a joke.

What use they have of their points? I doubt Loeb would want his championship classification this year to be taken seriously. Of course for a manufacturer championship it's another story.

[dupanton]

What use they have of their points? I doubt Loeb would want his championship classification this year to be taken seriously. Of course for a manufacturer championship it's another story.

It's not about their points, it's about the points they take away from other drivers.

[stefanvv]

It's not about their points, it's about the points they take away from other drivers.

I see no difference. If they don't score, don't take away any.

[Franky]

Lets just give everyone who does all the rounds the World Champion trophy and everyone who finishes the rally gets the winner's trophy. Everyone will be happy then.

I think it's a pseudo problem

[Tarmop]

I see no difference. If they don't score, don't take away any.

So this would mean that in Spain 2018, with Loeb first and Ogier second it would have been 0 for Loeb and 25 for Ogier, meaning no 3-way fight in Australia. Good for Ogier yes, not good for the sport.
I also suggest back to qually...no more ploughing or cleanining if you are the man...and it is rather hard to be THE man at the moment, with so big competition.

[wia5958]

Put the names in a hat each driver pulls out a name. first name out first on the road. Drivers pull the names out in order they finished the previous rally. Basic but effective nobody can compain then 😁

[Jewy46]

Put the names in a hat each driver pulls out a name. first name out first on the road. Drivers pull the names out in order they finished the previous rally. Basic but effective nobody can compain then ��

Something like this used to happen in the 90's I believe. I remember reading Colin McRae's book and he mentioned a time when he almost missed pulling his name out of the hat and if he did he would have been first on the road.
Something like that anyway. Maybe it's not a bad idea....But then you would have drivers complaining of "bad luck" :D

[AnttiL]

Something like this used to happen in the 90's I believe. I remember reading Colin McRae's book and he mentioned a time when he almost missed pulling his name out of the hat and if he did he would have been first on the road.
Something like that anyway. Maybe it's not a bad idea....But then you would have drivers complaining of "bad luck" :D

Not pulled from the hat. The driver who was leading after day 1 got to pick his road position first the day after. I think Colin once showed up late and had to go first the day after. But the first day was always in championship order, although it could have been a short day as well.

This, of course, was a result of drivers stopping at the ends of the last stages of the day to get a better road position.

[Myrvold]

Not pulled from the hat. The driver who was leading after day 1 got to pick his road position first the day after. I think Colin once showed up late and had to go first the day after. But the first day was always in championship order, although it could have been a short day as well.

This, of course, was a result of drivers stopping at the ends of the last stages of the day to get a better road position.

Ahh, the rally when Delecour started the next day 20-ish minutes early to sweep the stage a tiny bit before McRae started. Not that it helped much as Delecour had his first of 2 major crashes in two years in Rally Australia that year.

[deephouse]

But then you would have drivers complaining of "bad luck" :D

You mean Ogier instead of drivers, right?

[wia5958]

And neuville prob saying he was picked out first on purpose

[Fast Eddie WRC]

As I said at the time of Rally Spain, Loeb could have cost Ogier the Championship (points) by coming in and taking the win.

And with Budar saying in Australia how he wanted Ogier with the #1 on their car next year...

[dodge33cymru]

What use they have of their points? I doubt Loeb would want his championship classification this year to be taken seriously. Of course for a manufacturer championship it's another story.It's not about any 'use' for their points, it's about not writing in a record book that the person who really finished 5th or 6th in a rally scored points for coming 2nd.

It also takes away competition. There would have been no reason for anyone to even try catching Loeb in any of his events. Or Bouffier in Monte or Corsica. Or Paddon in the rounds he drove. Or Ostberg...

One thing I really like in WRC is that WRC2 and WRC3 cars all qualify for points. So when Tidemand or Kopecky finish 7th and Mikkelsen finishes 8th, those are the points they get. Don't change that please.

[AnttiL]

So if guest drivers had to open the road, teams could call in their "guest drivers" for sweeping the road for their championship contenders?

[AnttiL]

https://as.com/motor/2018/11/28/mas_motor/1543386914_962587.html?id_externo_rsoc=comp_tw

Sordo to have 10 rallies next year at Hyundai. All except Sweden, Finland, Wales and Australia.

[AnttiL]

My speculation about rotating all four drivers...
Monte: Sordo, Mikkelsen
Sweden: Mikkelsen, Paddon
Mexico: Sordo, Paddon
Corsica: Sordo, Paddon
Argentina: Sordo, Mikkelsen
Chile: Sordo, Mikkelsen
Portugal: Sordo, Paddon
Sardegna: Sordo, Paddon
Finland: Mikkelsen, Paddon
Germany: Sordo, Mikkelsen
Turkey: Sordo, Mikkelsen
Wales: Mikkelsen, Paddon
Spain: Sordo, Paddon
Australia: Mikkelsen, Paddon

10 rounds for Sordo, 9 for Mikkelsen and Paddon. Tarmac rounds split between Mikkelsen and Paddon.

[dupanton]

Or Paddon out and Huttunen to compete in 4 remaining rounds.

[GravelBen]

Or Paddon out and Huttunen to compete in 4 remaining rounds.

Why would they do that?

[Allez Andruet]

Why would they do that?
To give Huttunen, guy they've invested in, his first outings in the main class?

[GravelBen]

To give Huttunen, guy they've invested in, his first outings in the main class?

And if they're trying to take the manufacturers championship, would it seem a smart move to replace a driver with Paddon's level of proven performance (rally winner, multiple podiums etc) with an unproven youngster who hasn't really been standing out in WRC2?

[AnttiL]

I can see that this discussion between a person from New Zealand and another from Finland is not going anywhere. :)

Paddon could be out of the team for getting a full season elsewhere, thus Sordo having more rallies and skipping only the ones he doesn't like. Meanwhile, Huttunen recently tested the WRC car.

Still a lot of unknowns. Hopefully we know soon.

[Allez Andruet]

And if they're trying to take the manufacturers championship, would it seem a smart move to replace a driver with Paddon's level of proven performance (rally winner, multiple podiums etc) with an unproven youngster who hasn't really been standing out in WRC2?

Maybe not purely from that point of view, but for example in a scenario where Hyundai is limited to run only three cars in all rallies, the decision to bring Huttunen in has to be done at some point. And at the cost of someone else (pending Hyundai still believes in its investment - recent news about Huttunen testing the car would make you think they still do).

As much as I'd like to see Huttunen in WRC, I really hope it won't mean that Paddon's out.

[deephouse]

What IF the big news about Tidemand out of Skoda means that he will be in Hyundai next year. I mean it is possible, he is way better than Huttunen for WRC seat if we compare these two.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tidemand to M-Sport is also a possible move with him bringing some support.

[AnttiL]

What IF the big news about Tidemand out of Skoda means that he will be in Hyundai next year. I mean it is possible, he is way better than Huttunen for WRC seat if we compare these two.

Well, it would then be just the four rounds that Sordo skips, and maybe some R5 action. But I don’t see them picking him over Paddon, or letting go of Huttunen so soon after investing in him.

Like I wrote elsewhere, maybe Citroen with a season split between WRC2Pro and some WRC drives?

[Grutz]

10 rounds for Sordo, 9 for Mikkelsen and Paddon. Tarmac rounds split between Mikkelsen and Paddon.

I agree with something like this but maybe because of the "Super Team" of Toyota in 2019 Hyundai may now be contemplating 4 cars at all events next year. I noticed Paddon was in Korea this week and surely if he was out of the team he wouldn't be there now? So perhaps Paddon and Mikkelsen will do complete seasons and Sordo will share with Huttunen

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Mikkelsen has struggled pretty much all year with the i20 set-up. Some driver's just dont get on with some car's.

It may do him good to try elsewhere.

[Tarmop]

What difference do they get from running 4 cars? Only 3 nominated cars collect manuf. points. OK, possibly more points for the WDC, but 1. it is very expensive 2. the season hasn`t even begun, nobody knows, where they could be next year, like Neuville had a downfall a few seasons ago 3. current top 3 is quite hard to match, and apart from Neuville, who himself is currently in the top3, his teammates are nowhere near, unless the first have issues.

[T16]

What difference do they get from running 4 cars? Only 3 nominated cars collect manuf. points. OK, possibly more points for the WDC, but 1. it is very expensive 2. the season hasn`t even begun, nobody knows, where they could be next year, like Neuville had a downfall a few seasons ago 3. current top 3 is quite hard to match, and apart from Neuville, who himself is currently in the top3, his teammates are nowhere near, unless the first have issues.

Not entirely sure, but I guess the following may be behind it:
They can run a driver who maybe in a learning phase still - gain experience.
Also they have the potential to fill positions that may take WDC points off another driver.

[seb_sh]

To me the latest announcement from Skoda regarding Tidemand not continuing and wishing him luck for next year seems to indicate that he is going somewhere specific next year not just out of Skoda, could be any of the 3 teams with free seats. Then there's Breen/Sordo/Ostberg/Paddon/Evans so that's potentially 6 drivers. I'm assuming Mikkelsen's contract assures him to drive all rounds but maybe not?

We only know for sure Hyundai will run 3 cars on all rallies. Maybe more but that's not certain. Citroen say they are thinking about it and MSport are saying nothing yet. Worst case is Citroen and MSport run just 2 full time cars and Hyundai 3 so that's just 2 full season seats available, I hope it won't be this, its much more interesting when the field has depth. Even if the worst case doesn't happen and there are more, some of those drivers will be left out and not all of them will have full season drives.

I think we may have to wait a bit to get a better picture, probably the budgets for next year aren't decided yet for the manufacturers and MSport i think depends a lot on what sponsors they get or budget of potential drivers who may themselves depend on sponsors and so on. So yeah it may drag on a bit. It may not even be clear by Monte who will drive what car for the full season. The thing is the main players have been decided already and of the drivers that are left there is no one who stands out enough either as an established star or a future prospect. Probably Sordo and/or Ostberg would be attractive for a manufacturer that wants to win the constructors championship as a "safe" 3rd driver.

[deephouse]

But I don’t see them picking him over Paddon

Hyundai said that they would be happy if this lineup from current season would stay for the next too. So that means Paddon got an offer from them but probably only half a season. And if he is seeking for a full time drive then he is the one that he wants to go elsewhere, not that Hyundai would pick someone else over him. Sure they are talking to others too if Paddon will go and Sordo doesn't want full season. By my personal view first persons that can fill the spot is Breen or Ostberg but just 4 rounds for them two is simply just a joke... So then there is lower class and who is better. Pontus or Huttunen? And Huttunen got a few occasions and showed nothing really impressive. So put him in a 4 rounds which is a lot for a driver who is not ready even for a WRC2 wins or a regular podiums is a big no no. I'm not saying that they need to put Tidemand in all 4 remaining rounds but choosing Huttunen over him is a bit silly. Maybe each one 2 rounds and then they would see where they are.

[Rally Power]

https://as.com/motor/2018/11/28/mas_motor/1543386914_962587.html?id_externo_rsoc=comp_tw Sordo to have 10 rallies next year at Hyundai. All except Sweden, Finland, Wales and Australia.

Believing that’s Sordo real programme, those remaining 4 events aren’t Paddon favourites? I believe Nandan said he’d get something for Paddon and 4 WRC events alongside a WRC2 Pro campaign could be it, especially if Mikkelsen contract grants him a full season.

Btw, it’d be great having Huttunen driving the WRC car a couple of times, but if they're serious about manus title they should run him as a 4th driver.

[GravelBen]

https://as.com/motor/2018/11/28/mas_motor/1543386914_962587.html?id_externo_rsoc=comp_tw

Sordo to have 10 rallies next year at Hyundai. All except Sweden, Finland, Wales and Australia.


Believing that’s Sordo real programme, those remaining 4 events aren’t Paddon favourites?

Finland and Australia would be his favourite WRC rounds I think. He's often been the best Hyundai driver in Finland, and usually does well in Sweden too. Hasn't typically had great results in Wales though. I don't think they would only give him 4 rallies anyway, if he's there it should be for more than that.

[Tarmop]

Well, if they would give Mikkelsen, Sordo and Paddon each 10 events, they would need two starts with the fourth car...

[AnttiL]

Finland and Australia would be his favourite WRC rounds I think. He's often been the best Hyundai driver in Finland, and usually does well in Sweden too. Hasn't typically had great results in Wales though. I don't think they would only give him 4 rallies anyway, if he's there it should be for more than that.

Paddon is also good in Argentina, Sardegna and Portugal. Conversely, I don't remember him ever being remarkably fast in Wales or Finland.

[Rally Power]

Breen to Hyundai? At the end of Autosport piece about Loeb it was said Breen was in talks with MSport and Hyundai; some spanish sites are now telling he may share the 3rd i20 with Sordo…
http://www.revistascratch.com/wrc/noticia/craig-breen-posible-pareja-de-baile-de-dani-sordo-47591

[Tarmop]

On 3 events? Or taking away promised 3 rounds from a solid points scorer and once again maybe loose the championship?

[Rally Power]

[QUOTE=Tarmop;1201286]On 3 events? /QUOTE]

The piece doesn't confirm Sordo will make 10 events; it sugests it'll be an evely share, like this year.

Btw, Clark is also making a wild guess about Loeb in Hyundai on Twitter…

[Tarmop]

Loeb has some logic in it, they are a bit present in WRX...

[the sniper]

Btw, Clark is also making a wild guess about Loeb in Hyundai on Twitter…

I like Colin, he's amusing, but I think at this point we should disregard his predictions. Most of us here seem to be better at reasoned guess work than him!

[cali]

I like Colin, he's amusing, but I think at this point we should disregard his predictions. Most of us here seem to be better at reasoned guess work than him!He's entertaining and that's about it. Nothing else.

[racerx1979]

So Loeb Mikkelsen and Sordo?? The silly season is far from over. Loeb at Hyundai would be super cool. They can bring him in to piss off Ogier when they need someone to earn or deduct points.. lol

[sollitt]

Heard a rumour out of the North Pole this week that Christmas has been cancelled. Apparently all of Santa's elves have been seconded to TGR to produce extra body panels ahead of Kris Meeke's debut drive with the team.

[deephouse]

Maybe that Toyota needs crash test, so they can be even better for the future.

[T16]

Heard a rumour out of the North Pole this week that Christmas has been cancelled. Apparently all of Santa's elves have been seconded to TGR to produce extra body panels ahead of Kris Meeke's debut drive with the team.

Sounds like a load of shit to me, but I guess if you really believe in Santa and his Elves, then anything might seem reasonable to you. Let's just see what Meeke can do, now he's in that car. A pixie told me he might just win the world championship next year...

[stefanvv]

Heard a rumour out of the North Pole this week that Christmas has been cancelled. Apparently all of Santa's elves have been seconded to TGR to produce extra body panels ahead of Kris Meeke's debut drive with the team.

Oh, when it's elfcraft no worries then.

[sollitt]

Sounds like a load of shit to me ...No more shit than most of the outrageous unfounded speculation appearing throughout this thread.

[mknight]

... Loeb at Hyundai would be super cool. They can bring him in to piss off Ogier when they need someone to earn or deduct points.. lol


Actually I think it would made Ogier drive better. This year in Mexico it looked like his motivation levels went up 200% after Loeb started posting good times on friday.

[Steve Boyd]

Btw, Clark is also making a wild guess about Loeb in Hyundai on Twitter…I thought everyone knew he's going to Pikes Peak with an electric Peugeot Link (https://cycles.peugeot.com/em02-275-powertube-deore-10) :D

[dupanton]

If you link every driver with every team, you can Always say that in the end, you were right...

[AnttiL]

Seb Marshall confirmed to co-drive for Meeke

[bassist]

Just seen a couple of video's about 'M Sport' and their future. Any insiders out there who are in tune with the current situation? Body language suggests that they won't be playing in 2019, certainly at the level they have been!!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Saw this on Twitter...

2017 Manufacturers Champions M-Sport : Only team running 3 full-time drivers

2018 Manufacturers Champions Toyota : Only team running 3 full-time drivers

[AnttiL]

Saw this on Twitter...

2017 Manufacturers Champions M-Sport : Only team running 3 full-time drivers

2018 Manufacturers Champions Toyota : Only team running 3 full-time drivers

Also there's one driver related to both manufacturer titles

[EstWRC]

Anyone knows something about Paddon?

I’m getting really worried about him.

[tomhlord]

No solid news on Paddon at all, Motorsport/Autosport suggesting he will drive in Sweden: https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-loeb-speculation/4309500/

Nandan: “After Rally Australia he’s [Paddon] in pole position for the seat. There was talk about us talking to [Elfyn] Evans and [Craig] Breen, but this has not really gone any further.

“Hayden did everything we asked of him this season, he had a really good year. It’s difficult for Hayden to stay concentrated because of all this stuff in the media about him losing his seat and blah, blah, blah.

"I understand the media has a job to do, but, honestly, some people are making some things up and they even begin to believe their own stories!"

Would be nice of Hyundai to confirm the driver splits, the unknowing leads to the very speculation that Nandan critises. Slightly short-sighted there.

To me that kills off any talk of Breen going their next year. M-Sport for a few rallies or bust?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wildest speculation of Silly Season from Jack Benyon, Editor of Motorsport News...

Citroen, keen to keep Loeb employed by PSA, to use him in WRC2-Pro in a C3 R5 !

Reasons: the limited programme and only one event out of Europe could suit him AND the PR would boost the sales of that car.

[deephouse]

Wildest speculation of Silly Season from Jack Benyon, Editor of Motorsport News...

Citroen, keen to keep Loeb employed by PSA, to use him in WRC2-Pro in a C3 R5 !

Reasons: the limited programme and only one event out of Europe could suit him AND the PR would boost the sales of that car.

And he would certainly win the title straight, probably both.

[Tarmop]

Not so sure...he has the speed and experience though. Only thing i could think that would motivate him doing rallies in a slower class. Wonder, when a rumour about Toyota`s 4th car with Katsuta and Loeb will surface. Maybe a chassis for WRX, they already have the Hilux and maybe can offer another go in Le Mans also. Enormous publicity. :D

[Myrvold]

maybe can offer another go in Le Mans also. Enormous publicity. :D

Just to spin it further... Loeb, Alonso and Kyle Busch in a car.

[racerx1979]

Jack Benyon who??

That dude's just hanging off of D Evans nut sack... And we all know Evans is just a click bait columnist

[BobJones]

Jack Benyon who??

That dude's just hanging off of D Evans nut sack... And we all know Evans is just a click bait columnist

What a load of gibberish and a complete over-reaction.

[dodge33cymru]

Wildest speculation of Silly Season from Jack Benyon, Editor of Motorsport News...

Citroen, keen to keep Loeb employed by PSA, to use him in WRC2-Pro in a C3 R5 !

Reasons: the limited programme and only one event out of Europe could suit him AND the PR would boost the sales of that car.

I don't think it will happen, unfortunately, but that makes a lot of sense to me; for it to work as a customer car they're going to have to show it can be competitive. Even better if it's not just WRC2 and lets Seb do some events he's not done before. But not going to happen.

[Zeakiwi]

If Loeb does well at the Dakar Rally. Would Loeb do a few cross country rallies/ Bajas in 2019? (if the sponsorship dollars are there and the 3008 is still competitive etc?)

The last time Hyundai was in world rally they pulled out after 6 years.
2019 will be the 6th year in the championship in this edition of the Hyundai wrc team.

Hyundai sales have been going fairly well in spite of the team not winning titles. Might the corporate accountants at Hyundai HQ look at the numbers and think the $$$$$ should be going to electric vehicle development rather than the wrc team?

[T16]

If Loeb does well at the Dakar Rally. Would Loeb do a few cross country rallies/ Bajas in 2019? (if the sponsorship dollars are there and the 3008 is still competitive etc?)

The last time Hyundai was in world rally they pulled out after 6 years.
2019 will be the 6th year in the championship in this edition of the Hyundai wrc team.

Hyundai sales have been going fairly well in spite of the team not winning titles. Might the corporate accountants at Hyundai HQ look at the numbers and think the $$$$$ should be going to electric vehicle development rather than the wrc team?

It could also be the case that they attribute some of these sales to the fact they get exposure in the WRC, winning or not.

[dupanton]

The last time Hyundai was in world rally they pulled out after 6 years.
2019 will be the 6th year in the championship in this edition of the Hyundai wrc team.

Hyundai sales have been going fairly well in spite of the team not winning titles. Might the corporate accountants at Hyundai HQ look at the numbers and think the $$$$$ should be going to electric vehicle development rather than the wrc team?

Neuville just got a 3 year contract. So no

[rallyfiend]

Driver contracts have never, ever, stopped a car company pulling out of motorsport. It's peanuts compared to the bigger picture. Once a company takes a strategic decision, minor things like driver contracts are just a small line item in a spreadsheet.

Subaru, VW, Suzuki, Mitsubishi etc etc all had to pay out drivers in WRC.

Same in F1 etc etc.

[Doon]

If Loeb does well at the Dakar Rally. Would Loeb do a few cross country rallies/ Bajas in 2019? (if the sponsorship dollars are there and the 3008 is still competitive etc?)

The last time Hyundai was in world rally they pulled out after 6 years.
2019 will be the 6th year in the championship in this edition of the Hyundai wrc team.

Hyundai sales have been going fairly well in spite of the team not winning titles. Might the corporate accountants at Hyundai HQ look at the numbers and think the $$$$$ should be going to electric vehicle development rather than the wrc team?

Entering the WRC to increase car sales is like flogging a dead horse. Manufacturers would be better off giving away cars and a few quid to B-list celebrities and asking them to post a few pictures on their Twitter/Instagram accounts. Apart from sales of the old 2.0L 4x4 turbocharged cars (Impreza, EVO, Cossie, etc) I've never seen any evidence that supports the notion that competing in the WRC sells cars, winning titles or not. Ok, a few lads might turn up to a national or WRC event in a fast Ford; however, a Hyundai or Toyota?? Even during the Loeb days a spammed up Xsara/C4/C3 was a rare sighting. Someone high up in these companies must have a massive interest in the sport, because rallying really is like throwing money down a drain.

[AnttiL]

Entering the WRC to increase car sales is like flogging a dead horse. Manufacturers would be better off giving away cars and a few quid to B-list celebrities and asking them to post a few pictures on their Twitter/Instagram accounts. Apart from sales of the old 2.0L 4x4 turbocharged cars (Impreza, EVO, Cossie, etc) I've never seen any evidence that supports the notion that competing in the WRC sells cars, winning titles or not. Ok, a few lads might turn up to a national or WRC event in a fast Ford; however, a Hyundai or Toyota?? Even during the Loeb days a spammed up Xsara/C4/C3 was a rare sighting. Someone high up in these companies must have a massive interest in the sport, because rallying really is like throwing money down a drain.

So you think that rallying should only increase the sales of sporty cars? I thought it's more about making the models and brands positive in our minds, whether it's just a basic car or a homologation special. When I see a new Fiesta or C3 on the street I think about rallying, and that puts me in a nice place, and this must be what they want us to feel.