Silly Season 2019

[racerx1979]

What a load of gibberish and a complete over-reaction.

Sensitive chap here.... Sorry but Loeb to WRC2 is a joke..

[dupanton]

Driver contracts have never, ever, stopped a car company pulling out of motorsport. It's peanuts compared to the bigger picture. Once a company takes a strategic decision, minor things like driver contracts are just a small line item in a spreadsheet.

Subaru, VW, Suzuki, Mitsubishi etc etc all had to pay out drivers in WRC.

Same in F1 etc etc.

Agree, but stating that they already "planned" their exit is just BS

[Norm75]

So you think that rallying should only increase the sales of sporty cars? I thought it's more about making the models and brands positive in our minds, whether it's just a basic car or a homologation special. When I see a new Fiesta or C3 on the street I think about rallying, and that puts me in a nice place, and this must be what they want us to feel.

I agree with Doon. You are a rally nut, so a fiesta or c3 to you is relevant to the sport.
If you were to ask the next 100 people you meet what cars compete in the wrc, I would imagine not even 10% of them would know. To most people a fiesta or c3 is a car to pop down the shop in, an no more than that.

[Andre Oliveira]

I bought a Fiesta MK8 ST-Line cause WRC one got me in love.

[krissucool]

So you think that rallying should only increase the sales of sporty cars? I thought it's more about making the models and brands positive in our minds, whether it's just a basic car or a homologation special. When I see a new Fiesta or C3 on the street I think about rallying, and that puts me in a nice place, and this must be what they want us to feel.

Anyway I am pretty sure the Yaris sales are soaring in Estonia and probably in Finland as well thanks to WRC.
For normal countries probably not that big of a difference, yes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Citroen involvement is and has often been a puzzle in WRC. They havent sold a real hot-hatch for years and now their car philosophy is 'Comfort is Cool'.

[Tarmop]

For sure, No, because a road Yaris is a small grocery-getter for women and elderly people, with nothing to boast with- not with appearance, not with dynamics. Toyota in general sells good, because they have a reputation of being cheap to buy and even cheaper to maintain. And brand reputation from motorsport also helps, but not with Yaris sales...remarkably. And when you take away all the taxes, dealership fees etc, then one sold Yaris probably doesn`t cover the used tires for one car per event...

[tommeke_B]

I bought a Fiesta MK8 ST-Line cause WRC one got me in love.
Great car, fun to drive. I had the previous generation (red edition), but 5-speed gearbox was using lots of fuel on highways. It should be better with the 6-speed gearbox. Swapped it for an ST (not the new generation) at the beginning of the year.

Back on topic, I believe that the sales of cars are influenced by rallying, yes... I'm starting to see Hyundai I30 N-versions quite a lot, more than similar sportier versions of other manufacturers. Also when Subaru stopped rallying, people stopped buying Subaru Impreza's, even while they were still made for a few years, and another generation came after it.

[Norm75]

Great car, fun to drive. I had the previous generation (red edition), but 5-speed gearbox was using lots of fuel on highways. It should be better with the 6-speed gearbox. Swapped it for an ST (not the new generation) at the beginning of the year.

Back on topic, I believe that the sales of cars are influenced by rallying, yes... I'm starting to see Hyundai I30 N-versions quite a lot, more than similar sportier versions of other manufacturers. Also when Subaru stopped rallying, people stopped buying Subaru Impreza's, even while they were still made for a few years, and another generation came after it.

It would be interesting to see a wide ranging questionnaire on why people have bought a fiesta st, Yaris GRMN, Hyundai i30n or a c3. I doubt rallying would be the biggest reason, in fact quite small I would imagine. Maybe more with a special edition like the Yaris, but less so with a c3.

Subaru's stopped selling so well because the 2.5 engine in post 2006 models have inherent design flaws, not reliable and compared to more modern competition bad fuel economy, high rates of car tax (in UK at least).
I have 2003 model, have done for 11years, many people on Subaru forums have not bought newer ones for reasons I've mentioned above.

[Doon]

It would be interesting to see a wide ranging questionnaire on why people have bought a fiesta st, Yaris GRMN, Hyundai i30n or a c3. I doubt rallying would be the biggest reason, in fact quite small I would imagine. Maybe more with a special edition like the Yaris, but less so with a c3.

I would like to see this data too. For many years I believe TV shows like Top Gear, and Youtube videos made by the likes of Chris Harris, EVO magazine etc, are the ones helping influencing the purchase of hot-hatchbacks, not rallying. Standard run of the mill hatchback purchases are, in the vast majority, definitely not influenced by rallying.

[Rallyper]

I wish BMW could do WRC...
I´m sticking to an 520 Nm 330 xd ...

[Tarmop]

I30N is cheap, faster than a Golf Gti on track, mostly owned by those who occasionally take part of trackdays, so not seeing rallying also as a big influence on that cars sale. Cheap and fast hothatches have always been popular, take Civic Type-R for example, never been in rallying (apart from R3 and Gr. N / A privateers), yet popular even today (older cars, that run, though many of those have been crashed as well).

[Norm75]

I30N is cheap, faster than a Golf Gti on track, mostly owned by those who occasionally take part or them,so not seeing rallying also as a big influence on that cars sale.

The i30n is supposed to be a great car. Anyway, it's used in TCR so more relevant to that than rally, as base car is different car entirely.

[mknight]

Citroen involvement is and has often been a puzzle in WRC. They havent sold a real hot-hatch for years and now their car philosophy is 'Comfort is Cool'.

DS3 with 210ish HP has been on sale for 10 years now and still is. That's as real as "small" hot hatches go. (similar to Fiesta ST and Polo GTI)

[pantealex]

DS3 with 210ish HP has been on sale for 10 years now and still is.

Well current DS 3 is more like SUV

google it!

Peugeot 205 was perfect example what rallying did to sales.
Quattro to Audi did same.

[tomhlord]

Motorsport helps the brand, not direct sales of a specific vehicle in this day and age. It sits at the top of the marketing funnel (awareness) and provides heritage (if you do well). Times have changed, digital channels and sales techniques sell specific cars, motorsport improves reputation and has to be 'activated' to show ROI.

[mknight]

Well current DS 3 is more like SUV

google it!

Peugeot 205 was perfect example what rallying did to sales.
Quattro to Audi did same.

The DS3 I am talking about is still for sale (now as "DS" and not Citroen and with reduced engine range) and as mentioned has been for 10 years. DS 3 Crossback that you seem to think of is a different (new) car.
Goooglebeforetypingyourselfnexttime?

The second part is a good example of what was also shown in the other thread. Grumpy old men talking about how everything was better 30 years ago.

Advertising now and 30 years ago when the car market was completely different can't really be compared. 205 GTI was the first ever real hothatch, Quattro was the first "normal" car with 4wd.
If you want to use the car sales argument Peugeot 206 is a much better recent example in a competitive market. Fabia marketing in some markets is a lot based on rallying these days as well. But generally motorsport is in later years more about "brand awareness" like tomhlord just wrote, than selling a specific model, becomes harder to measure the direct marketing effect that way though.

Anyway, all this is off topic here.

[Tarmop]

Or maybe the first real hothatch was mk1 Golf GTI?

[Norm75]

The DS3 I am talking about is still for sale (now as "DS" and not Citroen and with reduced engine range) and as mentioned has been for 10 years. DS 3 Crossback that you seem to think of is a different (new) car.
Goooglebeforetypingyourselfnexttime?



Advertising now and 30 years ago when the car market was completely different can't really be compared. 205 GTI was the first ever real hothatch, Quattro was the first "normal" car with 4wd.


Anyway, all this is off topic here.
First ever real hot hatch!? Golf GTI preceded that by quite a few years. As did Renault 5 Gordini. And the lotus Talbot sunbeam. Maybe even mini cooper s (technically a saloon car) . . So 205GTI far from the first real hot hatch.

Jensen interceptor also preceded the quattro by a long way.

Maybe Googlebeforetypingyourselfnexttime?

[Grundo Farb]

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/motorsport/hayden-paddon-reveals-his-only-wrc-option-for-2019/

Hyundai really are agonizing over their driver decisions!

[wrc2017]

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/motorsport/hayden-paddon-reveals-his-only-wrc-option-for-2019/

Hyundai really are agonizing over their driver decisions!

makes me think Loeb deal is done

[sollitt]

Or maybe the first real hothatch was mk1 Golf GTI?A40 Farina.

[sollitt]

makes me think Loeb deal is doneReally ? Just another no news item out of New Zealand.

[Grundo Farb]

Really ? Just another no news item out of New Zealand.

No news is still news. Personally I think they can't make up their mind who to make the second driver after Neuville, or indeed if they will choose a second driver at all.

The strategy of having drivers manage their speed for results (Sordo and Paddon) worked. They may just be trying to work out what to do with Mikklesen (I know I haven't spelt it correctly so sorry).

[able1]

No news is still news. Personally I think they can't make up their mind who to make the second driver after Neuville, or indeed if they will choose a second driver at all.

The strategy of having drivers manage their speed for results (Sordo and Paddon) worked. They may just be trying to work out what to do with Mikklesen (I know I haven't spelt it correctly so sorry).

It is Mikkelsen , if in doubt google can be your best friend

[skarderud]

Wilson need Mikkelsen, Mikkelsen needs a better car.
With Loeb to Hyundai (still somewhat unthinkable) it is, atleast, one driver to many in Hyundai.

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[BigWorm]

Wilson need Mikkelsen, Mikkelsen needs a better car.
With Loeb to Hyundai (still somewhat unthinkable) it is, atleast, one driver to many in Hyundai.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

In 2020 maybe

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140632/loeb-signs-hyundai-wrc-deal-for-2019

Loeb confirmed for Hyundai. Wow!

[T16]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140632/loeb-signs-hyundai-wrc-deal-for-2019

Loeb confirmed for Hyundai. Wow!

Sweet.. I think it will be a full season too.

[Allez Andruet]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140632/loeb-signs-hyundai-wrc-deal-for-2019
Loeb confirmed for Hyundai. Wow!

Now I've seen everything. Lost for words. Just wow.

[AnttiL]

Sweet.. I think it will be a full season too.

No way. Six rallies at most I say.

[BobJones]

Absolutely mental. Returning with Citroen and winning again in 2018 was special enough already, but signing for Hyundai is mental. Staggered he is driving a non-PSA car.

Great work to uncover the story.

[able1]

Hyundai now has to really put in some effort in development for 2019

[AnttiL]

Hyundai now has to really put in some effort in development for 2019

I think Loeb will help the team with his testing/setup skills.

[wrc2017]

Absolutely mental. Returning with Citroen and winning again in 2018 was special enough already, but signing for Hyundai is mental. Staggered he is driving a non-PSA car.

Great work to uncover the story.

Says more about the current state of Citroen than Hyundai

[Allez Andruet]

I think Loeb will help the team with his testing/setup skills.
Absolutely. We all saw what he did with the C3.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And all those slagging Colin Clark the other week for the Ogier-Hyundai link...

[AnttiL]

And all those slagging Colin Clark the other week for the Ogier-Hyundai link...

Not Ogier but some Seb :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Loeb yes !

What a shout it was by Mr Clark.

[T16]

Loeb yes !

What a shout it was by Mr Clark.

Didn't he recently say Loeb to ford too?

[krissucool]

Sweet.. I think it will be a full season too.

Nothing you write about makes any sense!

Did you even read the article.

[T16]

Nothing you write about makes any sense!

Did you even read the article.

Skimmed it!... clearly... got excited about him coming back for a full year.
I do believe though, that his saying that he wouldn’t come back for a full season, was before Peugeot realised how shit RX future is and pulled out?
What else doesn’t make sense and I’ll try and clear it up? I think I make a good point here and there, to be honest.

[Tarmop]

One who thinks about one too highly, isn`t really clever.

[T16]

One who thinks about one too highly, isn`t really clever.

Don't be rude now. What's wrong with believing in the points I make?

[able1]

Skimmed it!... clearly... got excited about him coming back for a full year.
I do believe though, that his saying that he wouldn’t come back for a full season, was before Peugeot realised how shit RX future is and pulled out?
What else doesn’t make sense and I’ll try and clear it up? I think I make a good point here and there, to be honest.

He will not drive whole year , he doesnt want to . Will do 3-4 rounds like last season

[deephouse]

He will not drive whole year , he doesnt want to . Will do 3-4 rounds like last season

He wanted softs for Sunday's leg in Rally Spain and right before he went into the action he change them for hard compounds. Don't tell me that this wasn't tactics. He could simply change his mind if he want to. Like Ogier constantly saying he will retire from sport. Complete bullshit to me. He is hungry for more and he will do it if he will have a chance.

[Norm75]

He will not drive whole year , he doesnt want to . Will do 3-4 rounds like last season

I would be surprised if he only did 3 or 4 events. He did 3 last year, along with his wrx schedule. Unless he has a deal where he is going to use Hyundai wrx car, he will have a lot more spare time on his hands, so would probably think he will do at least 5-6 rounds.

[er88]

It was rumoured he wanted to maybe do 6-8 if he was remaining with Citroen. Hyundai will let him decide ofcourse, but it won't surprise me if he does at least half the rounds

[racerx1979]

Yes, that was the rumor!. 6-8 events.

[krissucool]

Skimmed it!... clearly... got excited about him coming back for a full year.
I do believe though, that his saying that he wouldn’t come back for a full season, was before Peugeot realised how shit RX future is and pulled out?
What else doesn’t make sense and I’ll try and clear it up? I think I make a good point here and there, to be honest.

Apart from him saying what he said, this article CLEARLY states, that there will be no changes to the drivers line-up for Monte Carlo. Meaning Loeb will not be able to do a full season.

[pantealex]

If Loeb to Hyundai is true:

-we can swipe off everything what Hyundai has said about 2019 (who is driving what and where)

-What te hell is M-Sport (or/and Ford) doing, if Loeb is ready to ride other than PSA machinery, why didn´t they catch him? (Ford/M-Sport both have car for endurance LeMans24h etc.)
Should be very easy to find sponsorship for Loeb.

[EstWRC]

It’s a fake picture

Cmon guys wait for some more hours.

[GravelBen]

I'll wait for a more reliable source than David Evans at least...

[AnttiL]

If Loeb to Hyundai is true:

-we can swipe off everything what Hyundai has said about 2019 (who is driving what and where)

Also, a reply to everyone asking "why is not Hyundai already announcing their driver lineup / why does not Paddon still have a contract"

[tomhlord]

I'll wait for a more reliable source than David Evans at least...

I mean, that whole Kris Meeke story, he was wrong about that...

When it's stated as a fact in the actual article – he's not wrong.

[T16]

Apart from him saying what he said, this article CLEARLY states, that there will be no changes to the drivers line-up for Monte Carlo. Meaning Loeb will not be able to do a full season.

Can they run four cars, or restricted to three?

[AnttiL]

Can they run four cars, or restricted to three?

Restricted only by their budget. And only three cars can score manufacturer points

[Tarmop]

Can be nominated to score points, but two best of them actually do.*

[T16]

[QUOTE=AnttiL;1202192]Restricted only by their budget. ....

So they could run at least ten then.. :)

[Tarmop]

Physically not possible.

[T16]

Physically not possible.

I'll assume you knew I was joking in relation to their budget.

[Tarmop]

Can`t be sure of anything here sometimes. :)

[dupanton]

Before anybody gets too excited and post the this picture:
https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48180376_1955249511196852_1918063331319480320_n.jp g?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=59e26ad66f24e36364a055c7ec6ee669&oe=5C93D2D3

It's photoshop:
https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/.../wrc-hyundai-i20-coupe...

[wwbroe]

Apparently six rally's for Loeb with Hyundai, three for sure are MC, SWE and Corsica, the other one's probably Chili, Wales and Spain

https://sport.france...our-six-manches (https://sport.francetvinfo.fr/auto-moto/rallye/wrc-hyundai-soffre-sebastien-loeb-pour-six-manches)

[N.O.T]

Apparently six rally's for Loeb with Hyundai, three for sure are MC, SWE and Corsica, the other one's probably Chili, Wales and Spain

so he will drive MC with 5 days of rest after Dakar... nice, any other news your imaginary friend told you ?

[wwbroe]

so he will drive MC with 5 days of rest after Dakar... nice, any other news your imaginary friend told you ?

Just quoting mister NOT:D

[Andre Oliveira]

Replacing Sordo at MC...

https://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2018/12/13/5c12527d46163f5b548b45d1.html

[T16]

From Loeb Twitter:

No more options were offered to me with PSA following their strategic choices. And I did not want to retire already! With this @DanosElena, we will bounce @HMSGOfficial back with as early as 2019 for a 6-course program @WRC for a new exciting challenge! #StayTuned

[stefanvv]

No smoke without fire.

[T16]

so he will drive MC with 5 days of rest after Dakar... nice, any other news your imaginary friend told you ?

You're pretty good at making yourself look like a complete dick, aren't you?

[Eli]

Here it is: https://motorsport.hyundai.com/wrc-line-up-fine-tuned-for-2019/ !!!!

[dupanton]

so he will drive MC with 5 days of rest after Dakar... nice, any other news your imaginary friend told you ?

There are 14 rounds. Loeb will do 6. Sordo will do 8, starting with Mexico.
So he might be actually correct :)

[Grundo Farb]

Here it is: https://motorsport.hyundai.com/wrc-line-up-fine-tuned-for-2019/ !!!!

Excellent to have Seb there but WTF about Paddon and Mikkelsen? Sordo for one year with 8 rounds sounds desperate and no announcement about Paddon? Seriously they can't be giving Mikkelsen another full year????

[wwbroe]

Excellent to have Seb there but WTF about Paddon and Mikkelsen? Sordo for one year with 8 rounds sounds desperate and no announcement about Paddon? Seriously they can't be giving Mikkelsen another full year????

I think it is clear that Andreas will do full championship with them. Tey say Paddon announcement will follow later, but i think it doesn't look good for him.

[dupanton]

What a silly season :o
Meeke to Toyota, Ogier and Lappi to Citroën, and now Loeb to Hyundai... Nobody could have predicted that a few months ago!

[EstWRC]

crazy silly season indeed.

Very interesting to see his pace against Neuville.

[mousti]

so he will drive MC with 5 days of rest after Dakar... nice, any other news your imaginary friend told you ?The Frenchman will compete in six rounds of the championship in an i20 Coupe WRC alongside long-time co-driver Daniel Elena, starting at Rallye Monte-Carlo.

Never doubt wwbroe his sources :D

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G935F met Tapatalk

[BobJones]

I suppose this is why it's called silly season!

[T16]

No way. Six rallies at most I say.

Hat off to you sir... I lived in hope, but, alas.

[BobJones]

Paddon to R5? Smells indeed like Mikkelsen to do a full season.

[AnttiL]

I still wonder who are they going to send to Finland in the third car

[rp]

I still wonder who are they going to send to Finland in the third car

Easy one :) Huttunen

[BobJones]

Paddon to R5? Smells indeed like Mikkelsen to do a full season.

Motorsport/Autosport reporting "Hyundai will field Thierry Neuville and Andreas Mikkelsen for the full WRC season next year" https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/loeb-hyundai-six-rounds-paddon/4312526/

[er88]

To drop Paddon totally while keeping Mikkelsen for a full year is very harsh based on the performances last season (if Paddon is indeed out). But Hyundai will be factoring in that it was Mikkelsen's first full season, and that combined with the fact he has an existing contract has probably saved him.

Shame there aren't more seats around. Paddon, Breen, Evans, Ostberg, Tidemand, Kalle, Kopecky etc could all do a job in the top category. Then you've got the drivers like Camilli and Greensmith who are maybe looking to find a way in through bringing some budget too.

Still, can't complain too much as we've had the best two years in a long long time, intense battles in great cars, and to top it off silly season has been bonkers :D i never thought Loeb would drive anything other than a PSA car. Can't believe Citroen didn't find the extra few million to keep the relationship going, so I'm still thinking it's more to do with Ogier demanding Loeb did a full season or nothing at all - with no guest appearances.

[Mirek]

Motorsport/Autosport reporting "Hyundai will field Thierry Neuville and Andreas Mikkelsen for the full WRC season next year" https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/loeb-hyundai-six-rounds-paddon/4312526/

You can read it directly from the source: https://motorsport.hyundai.com/wrc-line-up-fine-tuned-for-2019/

[rp]

Can't believe Citroen didn't find the extra few million to keep the relationship going, so I'm still thinking it's more to do with Ogier demanding Loeb did a full season or nothing at all - with no guest appearances.

Definitely Ogier did not want to see Loeb in the same team despite the fact what he said...

[racerx1979]

Paddons situation for 2019 seems worse than 2018. He will most likely do less events if he stays.

Is the Hyundai NZ program really that great? I would try to move on to MSport. Even though Malcom probably cannot come up with funds for Hayden. I'm sure he can still do his Hyundai program in NZ while driving for a different team.

That being said I'm super excited to see Loeb back. As some of us said it would be 6-8 events. There were talks of Hyundai entering 4 cars at some events, but that was from my source at Toyota. Its obvious Hyundai want to win at all all costs. I hope Loeb can help set up the car for Mikkelsens sake....

[AnttiL]

You can read it directly from the source: https://motorsport.hyundai.com/wrc-line-up-fine-tuned-for-2019/

It doesn't say anything about Mikkelsen having a full season.

[T16]

It doesn't say anything about Mikkelsen having a full season.

It kind of does...

[Allez Andruet]

It kind of does...

...but still doesn't.

[T16]

...but still doesn't.

by kind of, I mean this:

'Dani and Sébastien, who were WRC team-mates for four seasons from 2007-2010 will join Thierry and Andreas on our roster for 2019'

When they refer to Loeb and Sordo specifically as having part time drives, I think you have to be daft to not read that Mikkelsen and Neuville are not full time.

[AnttiL]

you have to be daft to not read that Mikkelsen and Neuville are not full time.

double negative means positive? :p

[pantealex]

I still wonder who are they going to send to Finland in the third car

2008 Winner

2011 Winner

2012 Winner

L O E B

(and I don´t care what he has said before)

[T16]

double negative means positive? :p

Again, hat off to you.. I knew it sounded wrong. Cheers... you know what I mean and I know you're not daft!

[stefanvv]

double negative means positive? :p

In my native language we have (un)officially double positive "yes" for "no". Why not the opposite in english.

[Rallyper]

2008 Winner

2011 Winner

2012 Winner

L O E B

(and I don´t care what he has said before)

Fully agree!!

[mknight]

My pick for the Loeb 6 is:
MC, SWE, COR, GER, FIN, GB

[deephouse]

Is it possible that his car will be wrapped in Redbull colours? Or it will be just his clothes.

[Tarmop]

by kind of, I mean this:

'Dani and Sébastien, who were WRC team-mates for four seasons from 2007-2010 will join Thierry and Andreas on our roster for 2019'

When they refer to Loeb and Sordo specifically as having part time drives, I think you have to be daft to not read that Mikkelsen and Neuville are not full time.

Mikkelsen is probably being given a last chance to show something good in first outings. Never-ever i believe, that with this lineup and his this years results he gets a full season.

[mknight]

Mikkelsen is probably being given a last chance to show something good in first outings. Never-ever i believe, that with this lineup and his this years results he gets a full season.
This year he retired due to alternator from 3rd in Monte, finished 3rd in Sweden, 4th in Mexico. Pretty sure same results this year would be enough.

[Japé]

Now we just need to find proper partners for Citroen and M-Sport to have 3 cars each. And then of course some surprisingly spectacular driver line-up, e.g. M-Sport could have the third car with rotation for Block, Galli and Luky ;)

[Tarmop]

These were OK yes, but not so sure...he was helped quite a bit with the conditions-starting position in Sweden (and not being on the podium at his home event would have been a disaster, tbh), others had issues in Mexico. Some of the strongest results of the year though....then again he was te slowest on tarmac.

[AnttiL]

Colin Clark
‏

@voiceofrally
6m6 minutes ago
More
I like this picture - just saying.
#longestsillyseasonever

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuYDJ-DW0AAlf32.jpg

But hey, remember, David Evans, Colin Clark and other Brit journos always get it wrong!

[Andre Oliveira]

Petter Solberg

I have some news for you: after 2 incredible years it's time to press pause on our @FIAWorldRX adventures. But this isn't the end, and as a team we continue and we work together. And those future plans include me behind the wheel... ��

[Duvel]

Petter in a polo R5 than next year?
Would be a very good addition for WRC2pro

[AnttiL]

Daniel Barrit will co-drive for Takamoto Katsuta. This means a co-driver change for Elfyn Evans.

They will also drive Yaris WRC in two Finnish national championship events (with no points to be scored)

http://www.rallism.fi/content/en/1/383005/20068/Takamoto%20Katsuta%20to%20drive%20Toyota%20Yaris%2 0WRC%20in%20the%20Finnish%20Rally%20Championship.h tml

[deephouse]

Scott Martin for Evans then?

[T16]

Scott Martin for Evans then?

Nagle?

[AnttiL]

https://www.facebook.com/PontusTidemand/posts/2402135849801150

Pontus Tidemand splits with EVEN Management and Jonas Andersson

[wia5958]

Or no drive unless he has been confirmed and i missed it

[skarderud]

And OC Veiby in polo R5 with Pontus' old codriver.
Johan with OC's old codriver in his "rallycampaign" in polo R5?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Rallyper]

Of course father prefer helping son, no matter else results and driving abilities says.

PT I´d say is out from all top rallying, unless he´s finding a big swedish sponsor...

[skarderud]

Pontus couldn't wait to release the plans for 2019, maybe a big sponsor, and pay for a seat in M-sport?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Rallyper]

Pontus couldn't wait to release the plans for 2019, maybe a big sponsor, and pay for a seat in M-sport?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Menar du att han är otålig och har annat på gång? Is that what you´re saying? Or speculations?

I really hope so in case of the latter.

[Rally Power]

https://www.facebook.com/PontusTidemand/posts/2402135849801150
Pontus Tidemand splits with EVEN Management and Jonas Andersson

Any chance of Tidemand being represented by Joukhi? It’d probably raise his WRC hopes.

[tommeke_B]

Any chance of Tidemand being represented by Joukhi? It’d probably raise his WRC hopes.
I think if Joukhi believed in him, he would have stepped in sooner. ;) With current situations, I think Tidemand can go to the "waiting room" behind Paddon and Breen...

[Tarmop]

Daniel Barrit will co-drive for Takamoto Katsuta. This means a co-driver change for Elfyn Evans.

They will also drive Yaris WRC in two Finnish national championship events (with no points to be scored)

http://www.rallism.fi/content/en/1/383005/20068/Takamoto%20Katsuta%20to%20drive%20Toyota%20Yaris%2 0WRC%20in%20the%20Finnish%20Rally%20Championship.h tml


The collection of WRC2 championship points will start from Sweden, where Katsuta took his remarkable win last year.

So maybe after all, Grönholm in a Yaris.:rolleyes:

[EstWRC]

Right choice from Tidemand, should have done this years ago.

[mknight]

Any chance of Tidemand being represented by Joukhi? It’d probably raise his WRC hopes.

His hopes of getting to a WRC car yes. His hopes of getting paid to driver WRC car might not increase much.
But it is quite likely due to Veiby not wanting to buy him in.
On the other hand Østberg's fate right now is a very good indicator of what can happen to paying drivers that are not top 3 in speed.

[Tarmop]

Tough luck. Nobody gets to the highest level without own money/sponsorship.

[mknight]

Struggling to remember when Loeb or Ogier had to use own money /sponsors that they found money to drive. A very recent example is Lappi, don't recall him paying for seat for any longer period either.

[Tarmop]

Ogier was helped by FFSA, PSA was also in his career quite early. Not sure what was the case with Loeb, although he also had "private" starts before. Lappi happened to be Finnish in a new Finnish team, young WRC2 champ...just another exception.

E: First start with a WRC car, in WRC for Loeb: Rally Tour de Corse 2000 - Rallye de France WRC
Toyota Corolla WRC
K-AM 608 Equipe de France FFSA
First WRC Start 1999: Rallye Catalunya - Costa Brava - Rallye de España
WRC
Citroën Saxo Kit Car
8116 MT 52 Equipe de France FFSA

First start in WRC for Ogier: Corona Rally Mexico 2008 JWRC
Citroën C2 S1600
7214 NE 52 Equipe de France FFSA

[Allez Andruet]

Struggling to remember when Loeb or Ogier had to use own money /sponsors that they found money to drive. A very recent example is Lappi, don't recall him paying for seat for any longer period either.

No-one does it for free, that's for sure. The FFSA program was/is just like a sponsorship deal would be, at the end of the day someone is paying. It doesn't change the fundamentals of the game even though the funding is coming from a federation.

And the same goes for Lappi. I doubt that the Fiesta S2000, in which he burst onto the scene in 2012, was given him just like that by Printsport.

[mknight]

Not exactly "longer period". When did Neuville pay? (must be before 207 time)

Etc, etc. list of "nobodies" is getting long.

The practice of buying yourself a WRC "factory" seat is cancer Joukhi brough to WRC with Hirvonen at Subaru in 2004 and Wilson was more than happy to embrace since then.

[Essaj]

Struggling to remember when Loeb or Ogier had to use own money /sponsors that they found money to drive. A very recent example is Lappi, don't recall him paying for seat for any longer period either.

Lappi / EVEN paid everything until Skoda and if I recall correctly Veiby/even jumped in to fund his S2000 drives. after that EP has been pure profit so they hit kind of a gold mine with him.

[mknight]

No-one does it for free, that's for sure. The FFSA program was/is just like a sponsorship deal would be, at the end of the day someone is paying. It doesn't change the fundamentals of the game even though the funding is coming from a federation.
.

Off course it's not like a driver comes from nowhere and gets paid. But historically arranging your own drive was only needed on low levels before they proved themselfs. At WRC factory seat level it is only a fashion last 14 years and still it doesn't count for everyone.

[mknight]

Lappi / EVEN paid everything until Skoda and if I recall correctly Veiby/even jumped in to fund his S2000 drives. after that EP has been pure profit so they hit kind of a gold mine with him.
Before Skoda means 3rd or 2nd level at best.

[Allez Andruet]

The practice of buying yourself a WRC "factory" seat is cancer Joukhi brough to WRC with Hirvonen at Subaru in 2004 and Wilson was more than happy to embrace since then.

Come on now, do your homework. "Buying a seat" has been part of the game basically as long as the sport has existed in its modern form. Jouhki, not Joukhi, wasn't the one inventing it. And actually Jouhki's clients have also been victims of this same procedure; in 2001, if I recall it right, the third Focus was already promised for Gardemeister, but then came Delecour with money from Ford France and rest is history.

[Essaj]

Off course it's not like a driver comes from nowhere and gets paid. But historically arranging your own drive was only needed on low levels before they proved themselfs. At WRC factory seat level it is only a fashion last 14 years and still it doesn't count for everyone.

So many drivers and only a few seats, no team is going hire drivers who haven't proven themselves. It's pretty impossible to find factory backing from junior days onwards so own/sponsor/manager backing is needed.

[Allez Andruet]

Off course it's not like a driver comes from nowhere and gets paid. But historically arranging your own drive was only needed on low levels before they proved themselfs. At WRC factory seat level it is only a fashion last 14 years and still it doesn't count for everyone.

Sorry to say it, but 1) that statement is totally incorrect, and 2) you're messing up things about "buying a seat" and funding one with a sponsorship deal.

[T16]

Scott Martin for Evans then?

Hey, you got it right buddy!!

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/december/evans-martin/page/5965--12-12-.html

[Tarmop]

As long as i can remember, there have been privateers, private teams, dealership teams using, specialist drivers etc etc. Times have changed, but money hasn`t.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Also from https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/december/evans-martin/page/5965--12-12-.html :

"it seems increasingly likely that Swede Pontus Tidemand will join the British squad for 2019."

[deephouse]

Man co-drivers' silly season is even more ''silly'' than of the drivers.

[Myrvold]

So maybe after all, Grönholm in a Yaris.:rolleyes:

How do you get that from Barritt to co-drive for Katsuta?

[AnttiL]

How do you get that from Barritt to co-drive for Katsuta?

It was rumored that Katsuta would have done Sweden in a Yaris, effectively taking the possible fourth car seat from Grönholm. Now this hypotethical fourth car is again free.

[dnb]

Not exactly "longer period". When did Neuville pay? (must be before 207 time)

Etc, etc. list of "nobodies" is getting long.

The practice of buying yourself a WRC "factory" seat is cancer Joukhi brough to WRC with Hirvonen at Subaru in 2004 and Wilson was more than happy to embrace since then.

Neuville had big support from Serderidis, this was mentioned when Bergkvist became JWRC champion with Serderidis paying for his season.

[tommeke_B]

Neuville had big support from Serderidis, this was mentioned when Bergkvist became JWRC champion with Serderidis paying for his season.

Bullshit. When Serderidis discovered rallying and did his very first events, Neuville was already driving a world rally car. (Besides that the company of Serderidis (ARHS) was much smaller than it is today.) Neuville was supported by the RACB in the beginning,with some other small sponsors he drove another year in a C2 R2 Max. After that he was supported by Peugeot BeLux, to do the IRC, while still receiving huge support from RACB. After that he went to Citroën to WRC. The main sponsors that got Neuville into the WRC are RedBull and Qatar, I think. I don't think Neuville or his family/relatives ever paid huge money for anything. He got where he is thanks to his talent, work, and thanks to very good relationship towards sponsors, fans and media in his early years.

[Andre Oliveira]

I readed somewhere that Neuville was paying Nasser Al-Attiyah "help". So i guess it was Nasser who helped Thierry.

[denkimi]

neuville was kinda the protegee of al attiyah in the early days of his wrc carreer.
i don't remember the exact details, but either neuville followed nasser to ford in 2013, or nasser has followed neuville.

in any case, back then it was nasser and quatar who supported neuville, and probably payed for his drive at ford.


So many drivers and only a few seats, no team is going hire drivers who haven't proven themselves. It's pretty impossible to find factory backing from junior days onwards so own/sponsor/manager backing is needed.
i would say that there are not enough good drivers to fill in all the seats.

how many drivers would you say have a realistic chance of winning the world title next year? three?

[KiwiWRCfan]

driver - codriver - team movement summary

[Rallyper]

driver - codriver - team movement summary

Can I suggest yellow arrow for co-driver changes?

[KiwiWRCfan]

Can I suggest yellow arrow for co-driver changes?

Thanks for suggestion Rallyper, I have tried a few options with codriver arrows but they just added confusion. After considering several options I came back to version posted above.

[SubaruNorway]

Man co-drivers' silly season is even more ''silly'' than of the drivers.

And it's not over yet...