Silly Season 2019 [Archive] - Page 4

mknight

10th October 2018, 14:15

Mknight, I think you should leave the spreadsheets alone tbh.

Everyone knows Evans is in the same boat regarding how he compares to Ogier, just on an even greater scale. However Evans has never been on Ogier's level, whereas Paddon and Mikkelsen had been on Neuville's level in the past or had been/seemed to be better at times. How times have changed now though...

That's why I said they've both been smashed to pieces by Thierry. They look beaten and lost at times. What the Belgian has done in making them both look pretty ordinary in the same machinery is impressive

You got only part of the point with the statistics.(that Evans is much worse than Ogier). I am not trying to say that Neuville isn't much better in same car than Paddon and Mikkelsen. What I tried to illustrate was that Latvala and Lappi are about as bad relative to Tänak as those at Hyundai relative to Neuville. (though it's still early for Lappi).

AnttiL

10th October 2018, 14:19

mknight

10th October 2018, 14:22

Meeke in Toyota is indeed good news for multiple reasons.

As Rally Power says without pressure maybe there is hope for more stable results. I somehow doubt he can change much at this point, but Toyota (money) and Tommi (boss) can take the occaisonal crashes without risking the future of the team and their position in championship.
In either case, entertainment is guaranteed.

er88

10th October 2018, 14:25

You got only part of the point with the statistics.(that Evans is much worse than Ogier). I am not trying to say that Neuville isn't much better in same car than Paddon and Mikkelsen. What I tried to illustrate was that Latvala and Lappi are about as bad relative to Tänak as those at Hyundai relative to Neuville. (though it's still early for Lappi).That fact then, plus extra money on offer at Citroen is probably what has made Lappi jump ship then.

Would it be fair to say Tanak has scared Lappi away?

Or is there just more behind the scenes issues that have resulted in Lappi moving on?

It really doesn't seem like Makinen is too bothered either. They could afford to keep Lappi if they desperately wanted to, but both Makinen and Lappi seem to want to look elsewhere. Makinen sounded like he wanted Meeke as soon as he was dumped by Citroen.

er88

10th October 2018, 14:29

I'm going to hope its not the truth and wait for official confirmation for Toyota lineup.If the BBC are reporting it then it's done.

BigWorm

10th October 2018, 14:30

who have been Meekes teammates so far? Sordo, Ostberg and Breen come to my mind.

Hoe did he do against Sordo on Mini days?

Was teammate to Sordo in 2011, Sordo grabbed a couple podiums on tarmac (nearly won in Alsace). Meeke did okay in the rallies he finished (4th in Wales was his best), but other times he was off the road.

dimviii

10th October 2018, 14:40

nice news,kudos to Makkinen,definetely Meeke its a plus to wrc series.

EstWRC

10th October 2018, 14:48

Was teammate to Sordo in 2011, Sordo grabbed a couple podiums on tarmac (nearly won in Alsace). Meeke did okay in the rallies he finished (4th in Wales was his best), but other times he was off the road.

So he is facing the strongest teammates he has ever had.

I imagine him being quite frustrated if he SHOULD be the slowest of them quite often.

steve.mandzij

10th October 2018, 14:53

To be honest, I'm quite surprised and a little sad to see the Finn leaving the Finnish team, but as mentioned before there must have been some ugly behind the scenes reasoning for Lappi leaving.

Makinen might be a little blinded by his own excitement by taking Meeke but it's exciting to see him come back, if only for a year. I don't think he'll challenge for the championship, but it'll be exciting come Finland, when the team is composed solely of Finland winners!

If Meeke falls into the Tanak role of winning almost every rally, it might even be good for Latvala's title hopes to lay back and collect the points for the team.

er88

10th October 2018, 14:54

So;

Toyota; Tanak, JML, Meeke

Hyundai; Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo, Paddon?

Citroen; Ogier, Lappi, Ostberg? (If he brings big funds)

Msport; Suninen, Breen?, Paddon?, Evans?, Ostberg?

Drivers without question mark beside them are nailed on or pretty much confirmed. Msport have a lot of potential options but no real winner now Meeke has gone to Toyota. Talk of Breen and Paddon having options to go there would leave Evans in trouble. Still a lot of moves to be done in this silly season

Gregor-y

10th October 2018, 15:37

Surely Red Bull are gone. If I were Malcolm I think I'd have tried to roll out some excellent hospitality for Spain and in connection with Block being there, tried to entice the likes of Monster Energy, Sonax or even Ford Performance (USA) to attend and get onboard with the WRC... They'd be a perfect partner for a 'youth' team of Sunninen, Breen, Evans/Tiedemans and occasional Block! Easier said than done though I suppose.

To hell with Ford and specifically Ford US. Other than the Mustang they will not be selling cars in the US and Canada and are gutting their staff in Michigan. If any money comes from there it's because someone in the Ford family is drunk and/or delusional, not with the personal enthusiasm that's driving Toyota. But if money comes take it, by all means. Malcolm has a lot of work ahead to stay in top rank of the WRC. Block turns 51 this year so don't expect much more than name recognition and some Monster money. Again, the money's not a bad thing, though.

Norm75

10th October 2018, 15:51

who have been Meekes teammates so far? Sordo, Ostberg and Breen come to my mind.

Hoe did he do against Sordo on Mini days?

Try Loeb. Not suggesting Kris is by any means the driver that seb was, but outright speed he didn't fair too badly against Loeb's stage times.

mknight

10th October 2018, 15:52

That fact then, plus extra money on offer at Citroen is probably what has made Lappi jump ship then.

Would it be fair to say Tanak has scared Lappi away?

Or is there just more behind the scenes issues that have resulted in Lappi moving on?

It really doesn't seem like Makinen is too bothered either. They could afford to keep Lappi if they desperately wanted to, but both Makinen and Lappi seem to want to look elsewhere. Makinen sounded like he wanted Meeke as soon as he was dumped by Citroen.

Well both Latvala and Lappi have made comments already around march that changes proposed by Tanak moved the car away from them. So there might be some truth in that.

Then again Lappi made comments about "seeing no reason to leave". Which now almost makes it looks like he got kicked by Makinen to get place for Meeke.

If Makinen is mostly focused on maximum manu chances+PR in next 1-2 years, then picking Meeke might be better option than Lappi. Obviously Lappi is now the most promising "new" driver. But might be that Makinen doesn't believe in him and wants to wait for others (Suninen, Rovanpera or the Japanese).

Fast Eddie WRC

10th October 2018, 16:06

If the BBC are reporting it then it's done.

BBC are just repeating the 'reports' of Meeke to Citroen, not confirming it.

Fast Eddie WRC

10th October 2018, 16:15

The latter seems to be pretty big IF at the moment. I don't know what the financial input from Ford has been during the past few years when they haven't been in WRC as an official works team, but probably they've covered some of the expenses anyway. If that is about to change, and I don't want to sound disrespectful by any means, but I'm not sure if any wage from any Ford dealership or any money from Breen family is enough to compensate that. If Ford is out, together with RB as a title sponsor, I'd guess we're talking about money around the magnitude of 10M€+ which might be too much to overcome for these fellas. That would probably require some of that Abu Dhabi money...

As I understand it, Ford Performance are still to carry on supporting M-Sport with the car. Just maybe not as much as Ogier wanted.

They have never been paying driver wages so that isnt any different.

Evans is a Red Bull athlete, so is Suninen. They are sponsored independently from the M-Sport team deal.

I agree a new headline sponsor will probably be important to continue, but they have competed without one before..

Oliverk

10th October 2018, 16:35

mknight

10th October 2018, 16:46

Mby Lappi is just not good enough? With Rovanpera coming, Tommi just don't care about him. He has the best driver/car builder at the moment. And prob best second driver that is accepting his role. Neuville or Ogier as second driver is obvious no go. So prob he sees some commercial value in Meeke to offer him a drive for a year until Rovanperä arrives.

Lappi has more points than Latvala and has been regularly faster than him most of the season. It's Lappi's first full season (so he has not driven 1/3 of the rallies before in WRC). That's seriously early to think he is not good enough, though yes he might be slower on pure speed than Meeke atm, but likely getting better points.

Off course none of this means that Tommi "believes" in Lappi, which might be what you mean.

Btw. Ogier on his first full season (2009) was told to learn and take it easy and was basically the slowest factory WRC in all rallies. (He even had lass points than Matt Wilson overall)

Without discussing whether Latvala is best second driver (pretty close with Lappi and Mikkelsen there), I wonder how you get that he is accepting his role.

dimviii

10th October 2018, 17:20

Try Loeb. Not suggesting Kris is by any means the driver that seb was, but outright speed he didn't fair too badly against Loeb's stage times.
Μeeke was faster from Loeb at just one stage at last day.At all other stages Loeb was faster.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44258-corsica-linea-tour-de-corse-2018/?s=160648

Norm75

10th October 2018, 17:49

Μeeke was faster from Loeb at just one stage at last day.At all other stages Loeb was faster.
https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/44258-corsica-linea-tour-de-corse-2018/?s=160648

Yes, I didn't say he was faster, I said he didn't fair too badly against Loeb's stage times.
Loeb is a class act. To be anywhere near his stage times in the same car is impressive. Many of the stages Kris was quite close.

Norm75

10th October 2018, 17:56

And go back and look at rally Mexico stage times.
More like 50/50 between the two.

Allez Andruet

10th October 2018, 18:02

As I understand it, Ford Performance are still to carry on supporting M-Sport with the car. Just maybe not as much as Ogier wanted.

They have never been paying driver wages so that isnt any different.

Evans is a Red Bull athlete, so is Suninen. They are sponsored independently from the M-Sport team deal.

I agree a new headline sponsor will probably be important to continue, but they have competed without one before..

They have, but back then the overall business was better (if I understood correctly what mr. Wilson meant). I don't think the driver salaries have been anything to worry about on any post-factory-era M-Sport line-up not including one Seb Ogier. Now that the champ's gone, it would be obvious that the factory is cutting also its support (which was said to be increased for 2018) towards the WRC program, but we'll see. I hope I'm wrong. It's just that seven-figure amount that is budgeted somewhere under "operations" that worries me.

er88

10th October 2018, 18:10

It's perhaps too early for Kalle, but Malcolm has taken chances before when there's been no other big names available. So i hope/ wouldn't be surprised if he's on the phone trying to sort something with Timo Jouhki for Kalle. He has a 2+1 contract at Skoda atm, but it has a break clause if a WRC drive is offered...

Kalle, Suninen and Breen at Msport next year would be exciting. All 3 are at different stages of their development but all 3 have potential to go far in the sport. Evans time is probably up and rumours are that he's out the door anyway.

Developing young talent is what Malcolm has done best and with less pressure at a private team, Kalle could learn at the top end of the sport for 2/3yrs, before Toyota/Hyundai/Citroen want to hand him a massive contract. It doesn't even matter if he struggles for a year or two given his age, and he won't be as bad as the likes of Camilli anyway.

The media interest would be bigger for Msport as well, instead of going for a dull line-up with Evans, Ostberg etc. Probably just wishful thinking from me though.

Fast Eddie WRC

10th October 2018, 18:12

I wonder when the new Mk8 Fiesta R5 is due ? It could give M-Sport a big lift in sales income.

BTW, a friend of mine has suggested M-Sport may withdraw from the Manu's WRC so they dont have to do the long-haul events. They could then just run cars for 'their' driver's on European rounds...

Allez Andruet

10th October 2018, 18:15

He has a 2+1 contract at Skoda atm, but it has a break clause if a WRC drive is offered...
That clause only becomes applicable for 2020.

BobJones

10th October 2018, 20:21

BTW, a friend of mine has suggested M-Sport may withdraw from the Manu's WRC so they dont have to do the long-haul events. They could then just run cars for 'their' driver's on European rounds...

Is this just your mate's idea, or is your friend somehow connected to M-Sport?

doubled1978

10th October 2018, 21:01

While out and about on WRGB I heard a few bits and pieces regarding a few of the topics, I don't know any of them to be fact, but here they are none the less.
Lappi fell out personally with Makinen over him leaving a test early for personal reasons, which was not authorised. Apparently at one stage end on WRGB he was handed a cap, looked at it and it had TMR logo on, so he threw it away.
I spoke to a guy who was at the Ogier test in Aberhirnant, and as the test concluded a friend of the chap approached the team about giving this guy a ride as he has been following rally since the 60's and it would be a lifelong ambition, and they said it was Ogier's test, so it was entirely up to him what he did. Ogier being a gent happily gave him a ride on his final run. He also said he asked what he had thought of the Citroen, and Ogier replied "Needs a lot of work".
The M-Sport pulling out rumour was quite 'strong' with a few of the guys I speak with, but personally I am quite sceptical about this as WRC is M-Sports DNA. I would think if they can financially be there, they will be.
The Meeke/Toyota thing was being talked about as fact, and it seems this was correct from the news this week.

wia5958

10th October 2018, 21:38

Speaking of which how will ogier fair as a development driver to develop the c3? Has he done any before. I know with the polo but was that not largely carried out by sainz? Just could be interesting

mknight

10th October 2018, 21:40

doubled1978

10th October 2018, 21:57

Thats actually a point, the C3 was so inconsistent on WRGB. Friday it was Ok, Saturday it was good, and Sunday it was awful. I'm sure road position had an influence on it, but not to the extent we saw in the times. They both looked positively dreadful on Sunday where I was (Gwydir) yet the previous day they looked good (Myherin), and for Ostberg to set fastest time through Sweet Lamb/Hafren it must have been working well, road position advantage or not.

mknight

10th October 2018, 21:58

I20 was similarly inconsistent. (or actually even more)

Anyway Breen was on almost exacly same time as Ogier (who was fighting for win) first stage on Sunday.. on second he got in the ditch and damaged front. Hard to measure times after that.

10th October 2018, 22:16

BTW, a friend of mine has suggested M-Sport may withdraw from the Manu's WRC so they dont have to do the long-haul events. They could then just run cars for 'their' driver's on European rounds...

Can new parts be homologated if a team is not registered for the manufacturers championships?

wrc2017

10th October 2018, 22:34

wia5958

10th October 2018, 22:49

Meeke to Toyota... if true...it's even a win for him before he starts a single rally, and a big 2 fingers to Citroen management. Makinen obviously sees something in him. Look at all the options Tommi had, and Meeke came out on top... thats an endorsement and a vote of confidence if ever i saw it. Maybe Makinen sees a hint of his ex rival McRae in Meeke.. and is just intrigued. Im just willing Meeke to beat Citroens on a regular basis... and getting well paid doing it... revenge will be sweet. Then he can leave WRC on his terms.

Possibly. Id say he sees more the hype meeke brings to the stages. His on the limit style attracts fans which attracts them to their brand. Yes he may win rallys and yes he will bin it. But overall id say 70% is pr 30% actually to have him in the car

mknight

10th October 2018, 22:50

While out and about on WRGB I heard a few bits and pieces regarding a few of the topics, I don't know any of them to be fact, but here they are none the less.
Lappi fell out personally with Makinen over him leaving a test early for personal reasons, which was not authorised. Apparently at one stage end on WRGB he was handed a cap, looked at it and it had TMR logo on, so he threw it away.

If some falling-out is true then I guess he left on mutual agreement.

At that point Makinen had these options (random order):
-Paddon (no top speed on tarmac, not good results this year)
-Breen (still no win, seems inconsistent)
-Sordo (no speed on some rallies (Finland, GB), maybe doesn't want full season)
-Meeke
-Evans (not a real option)
-some young guy, but both Huttunen and Rovanpera are under contract

Not really surprising he picked Meeke. Would say that Breen was probably the only real competition.

Btw. lets recall what happened at Citroen:
Citroen kicked Meeke as number 1 and got Ogier instead. Anyone really thinks that's a bad switch?

wrc2017

10th October 2018, 23:39

Citroen kicked Meeke as number 1 and got Ogier instead. Anyone really thinks that's a bad switch?
Did they also not kick matton, 2nd in command, lead engineers ...and re-homologate fundamental things that should has been right from the start.

Smells of Citroens last throw of the dice... promises, promises promises to land Ogier. It could be the biggest mistake of his career... maybe not. but anything less than WRC driver titles will be a failure for Citroen and Ogier.

GravelBen

11th October 2018, 00:40

-Paddon (no top speed on tarmac, not good results this year)

1x 3rd, 2x 4th, 1x 5th, 1x 7th and 1x crashed out while leading.

I'd say those results aren't bad at all for a guy who has only been given half the seat time considering how tight the competition has been.

Seemed like he had more speed to offer in Finland too if the team hadn't needed him to play it safe for points with Neuville and Mikkelsen out of contention.

Toyoda

11th October 2018, 05:15

denkimi

11th October 2018, 05:29

Btw. Ogier on his first full season (2009) was told to learn and take it easy and was basically the slowest factory WRC in all rallies. (He even had lass points than Matt Wilson overall).
13 stage wins and a 2nd place. Wilson has not even come close to that in his entire career.

Ogier was prone to accidents and faults in his first full season, but he was not slow like wilson.

OnlyRally

11th October 2018, 05:59

Meeke to Toyota... if true...it's even a win for him before he starts a single rally, and a big 2 fingers to Citroen management. Makinen obviously sees something in him. Look at all the options Tommi had, and Meeke came out on top... thats an endorsement and a vote of confidence if ever i saw it. Maybe Makinen sees a hint of his ex rival McRae in Meeke.. and is just intrigued. Im just willing Meeke to beat Citroens on a regular basis... and getting well paid doing it... revenge will be sweet. Then he can leave WRC on his terms.

You think, Meeke will beat Ogier on a regular basis? Citroen is a very good and fast car. Loeb just tested it a littlebit, made some small changes an were winning stages in MEX. Still don't understand why the other Citroen drivers were so bad at car development.

doubled1978

11th October 2018, 06:41

1x 3rd, 2x 4th, 1x 5th, 1x 7th and 1x crashed out while leading.

I'd say those results aren't bad at all for a guy who has only been given half the seat time considering how tight the competition has been.

Seemed like he had more speed to offer in Finland too if the team hadn't needed him to play it safe for points with Neuville and Mikkelsen out of contention.

To me Paddon looked like he was driving for a finish in WRGB, same as in Turkey. He never looked like he was pushing like the others anywhere I saw him, or like he has done in the past. I would assume that after the crash he had while leading the team may have told him he needs to be in a position to score point for the team should one of the other two have an issue.

AnttiL

11th October 2018, 07:13

To me Paddon looked like he was driving for a finish in WRGB, same as in Turkey. He never looked like he was pushing like the others anywhere I saw him, or like he has done in the past. I would assume that after the crash he had while leading the team may have told him he needs to be in a position to score point for the team should one of the other two have an issue.

In Turkey definitely Paddon was playing it safe and it paid off. And in Sardegna he said he was taking it easy because he was still affected by the Portugal injuries.

TWRC

11th October 2018, 07:35

Speaking of which how will ogier fair as a development driver to develop the c3? Has he done any before. I know with the polo but was that not largely carried out by sainz? Just could be interesting
If I remember well, there was a story that when he came in to the VW team, he proposed very different development ideas to Sainz's, and the argument was settled when Latvala came in and said that Ogier is right. Also, he was involved in the DS3 development before too. We will see.

EstWRC

11th October 2018, 08:51

well he is a five time champion, of course he is a good developer.

noel157

11th October 2018, 09:18

You think, Meeke will beat Ogier on a regular basis? Citroen is a very good and fast car. Loeb just tested it a littlebit, made some small changes an were winning stages in MEX. Still don't understand why the other Citroen drivers were so bad at car development.

Perhaps if you understood how any technical improvements suggested by Meeke (and Breen) were generally ignored or they were told there was no budget for what was being suggested you would understand. Up to you.

noel157

11th October 2018, 09:21

One thing I am looking forward to is Meeke being interviewed at stage end and he's smiling, basically saying "I'm getting paid for this! Can you believe it?"
Most of the interviews during RGB the drivers were mostly as miserable as sin, especially Lappi. Hopefully Lappi will be a lot happier in a C3.

bassist

11th October 2018, 09:28

mknight

11th October 2018, 10:18

13 stage wins and a 2nd place. Wilson has not even come close to that in his entire career.

Ogier was prone to accidents and faults in his first full season, but he was not slow like wilson.

I am not saying Ogier was as slow as Wilson, but he was slowest of the "normal" factory cars and on points even lower than Wilson. And this was alright for Citroen in his first full season, next season he was faster...

My point was the contrast to today when drivers are expected to mix in on the top basically from the very start. Compared to Ogier's first season, Lappi s doing extremely well this year.

---------------------------------------------

1x 3rd, 2x 4th, 1x 5th, 1x 7th and 1x crashed out while leading.

I'd say those results aren't bad at all for a guy who has only been given half the seat time considering how tight the competition has been.
Seemed like he had more speed to offer in Finland too if the team hadn't needed him to play it safe for points with Neuville and Mikkelsen out of contention.

Paddon has been the slowest I20 in 4 rallies, fastest in 1. Portugal is hard to judge with only some road-cleaning stages.

Yes there could have been teamorders on some rallies. But I doubt they were "be slow", more like "make it to the finish". I also doubt they do teamorders before the rally, more likely after friday or after first section.

Anyway why would Toyota hire him?
- Certainly not for speed/ fighting for wins, cause he has not shown that for quite long
- With the reliability he has this year (compared with last) he could be a "points scorer", but can he be that on tarmac rallies?

Fast Eddie WRC

11th October 2018, 11:51

Is this just your mate's idea, or is your friend somehow connected to M-Sport?

No, he's just a very knowledgable rally fan.

On the subject, at the rally forum M.Wilson seemed to suggest he may personally retire. But that doesnt mean the team will pull out...

His son Matt was at the SP with Red Bull TV and very into what was going on at the M-Sport service area. Maybe he could take over ?

EstWRC

11th October 2018, 13:00

Already a title contender, lol

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139310/will-meeke-second-chance-with-toyota-pay-off

BigWorm

11th October 2018, 14:16

Already a title contender, lol

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139310/will-meeke-second-chance-with-toyota-pay-off

Brilliant. It only took one day for it to start.

[RMC]Pip

11th October 2018, 16:09

Where does it say that he is a title contender? I'm not native English speaker, so I might have got it wrong.
"Kris Meeke's return to the World Rally Championship in 2019 with Toyota could well be his best chance at winning a title." - it is hard to argue with this statement. Toyota is mighty fast with Ott, JML is doing fine as well.

"But is a refreshed Meeke a true rival for the likes of Sebastien Ogier, Thierry Neuville and Ott Tanak next year?" - or this one that raged you? Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but this type of questions that catch attention in the 21th century.

Instead of all this negativity, why not just be happy that Meeke has a final shot in WRC. On a side note, I also very much hate David Evans's hyperboles. But the video has some great points and seems to be quite balanced, enjoyed it.

er88

11th October 2018, 16:11

Well C3 is getting podiums this year with Østberg and Breen and fighting in top 3 with Loeb, in GB it was fighting for 3rd all the way to sunday, can't exactly be rubbish.

Might have as much to do with Ogier being perfectionist.And Meeke....

Loeb was similar to Meeke, almost pushing too hard in Mexico and Corsica, and went off the road resulting in a puncture and a retirement respectively.

The car has improved a lot and Ogier wouldn't have moved if he didn't think it had the potential to help him challenge for another title. He'll probably talk the car down to try & downplay expectations and to keep Citroen pushing hard with the upgrades (like he did with the Fiesta), but if there were still big problems he wouldn't have signed for them. It's only taken 2 and half years but the c3 seems to be solid on all surfaces now and in most conditions.

EstWRC

11th October 2018, 16:17

Pip;1194844']Where does it say that he is a title contender? I'm not native English speaker, so I might have got it wrong.
"Kris Meeke's return to the World Rally Championship in 2019 with Toyota could well be his best chance at winning a title." - it is hard to argue with this statement. Toyota is mighty fast with Ott, JML is doing fine as well.

how is it really hard to argue? He hasnt even touched the car, we dont know how the car will suit him, he hasnt driven a rally car for over a 5 months now, hell we havent even heard the official announcement.

And already some journos are talking his WDC chances.

And i have nothing against Meeke, i have said here thousand times that it was so wrong what Citroen did to him.

dimviii

11th October 2018, 16:47

EstWRC

11th October 2018, 16:48

that must have been quite early in the development or is he testing the 2021 car already?

Rally Power

11th October 2018, 16:52

Perhaps if you understood how any technical improvements suggested by Meeke (and Breen) were generally ignored or they were told there was no budget for what was being suggested you would understand. Up to you.

Can you guarantee that he really asked for specific improvements and the team refused them? Probably you base that acceptation on a few comments from ‘unidentified sources’ that the Brit press eagerly spread. The same press that forgot to mention that Alexis Avril, the C3 WRC chief of project, is a good friend of Meeke (since the C2 Junior days) and always supported him. The same press that failed to mention that Poland ‘suspension’ was settled by the team with Meeke agreement, as he felt a break was needed. The same press that only question Meeke driving approach after he was fired, ignoring his error prone attitude through the years.

Meeke is a top WRC driver, certainly one of the bravest and fastest around, but to ignore his limitations and blame the others for his faults won’t help him to improve, as it didn’t help so far. Hopefully, he’ll manage to get a more sensible approach while avoiding raise expectations too high; that’s probably the best way to enjoy next year(s) and provide Toyota and the fans a fantastic show. Fingers crossed!

[RMC]Pip

11th October 2018, 16:56

how is it really hard to argue? He hasnt even touched the car, we dont know how the car will suit him, he hasnt driven a rally car for over a 5 months now, hell we havent even heard the official announcement.

And already some journos are talking his WDC chances.

And i have nothing against Meeke, i have said here thousand times that it was so wrong what Citroen did to him.
When Meeke raced for Citroen (full season), only he was able to get rally wins with the car. Of course, he was far from title contender in these seasons.
Now, he will drive (probably) in a proven race winning car, so yeah, this COULD be his best chance for a title. Even if it is unkown at the moment whether the car suits him or not. Hell, it would be my best chance as well for the title if got the drive.

Jurnos like to exagarate everything like this, that drives clicks and shares. I bet you wouldn't have shared the article if it had had nothing controversial / bombastic / eye-opening statement in it. And I have to repeat, the video is of high quality, balanced reporting.

mknight

11th October 2018, 17:11

Already a title contender, lol

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139310/will-meeke-second-chance-with-toyota-pay-off

Well a year ago some british jurnalists were saying Evans would fight for the title this year no matter what car he drives.

er88

11th October 2018, 17:19

Can you guarantee that he really asked for specific improvements and the team refused them? Probably you base that acceptation on a few comments from ‘unidentified sources’ that the Brit press eagerly spread. The same press that forgot to mention that Alexis Avril, the C3 WRC chief of project, is a good friend of Meeke (since the C2 Junior days) and always supported him. The same press that failed to mention that Poland ‘suspension’ was settled by the team with Meeke agreement, as he felt a break was needed. The same press that only question Meeke driving approach after he was fired, ignoring his error prone attitude through the years.

Meeke is a top WRC driver, certainly one of the bravest and fastest around, but to ignore his limitations and blame the others for his faults won’t help him to improve, as it didn’t help so far. Hopefully, he’ll manage to get a more sensible approach while avoiding raise expectations too high; that’s probably the best way to enjoy next year(s) and provide Toyota and the fans a fantastic show. Fingers crossed!You are correct in what you say but you're too far to Citroen's side. Matton was the problem, he was in charge and got so many things wrong that we'd be hear all day talking about them. Meeke made mistakes and so did the engineers and design team. Simple.

Meeke was pushing for changes that Mikkelsen and Loeb backed up. They all said the same thing, but Matton's management was poor and he sat on his hands till it was crisis management.

The new technical director who came in even said Citroen's own engineers and development team had taken risks which backfired and that due to the previous successes, were perhaps too stubborn and stuck in their ways to make the changes earlier that the drivers wanted. Direct quotes.

deephouse

11th October 2018, 17:56

If management is better now at Citroen, why they still thinking to race with only two cars and still not trust Breen... It will never change their thinking no matter who is pull the strings.

Rally Power

11th October 2018, 18:04

Meeke made mistakes and so did the engineers and design team.

That’s what I’ve been saying for ages! The C3 was a fiasco and all major players have their faults on it, from designers to test drivers and overall managers. During the 9 months spent testing the car before homologation, everybody felt it was ok and only after MC they realize it wasn’t; worse: they were clueless about the way to fix it, no matter how much they all look for improvements. Meeke kamikaze driving style was also far from being helpful; among the frustration, suddenly a narrative arouse in the press: Meeke was a victim of the stubborn French. A totally unfair and biased line once we look back and realize the French were Meeke main supporters through his rally career and the staff actually respected him.

Anyway, Citroen got rid of all C3 initial players and they’re now working on a clean sheet, while Meeke is also having a fresh start in Toyota. Let’s avoid wasting time with the troubled past and look forward, wishing Citroen and Meeke the best luck in the world.

mknight

11th October 2018, 18:18

And every other countries' journos downplay their drivers chances do they?
Certainly not, but since the wrc promoter/site/allive coverage as well as hosts and commenters are mainly british the british jurnos dominate the english-language news.

Fast Eddie WRC

11th October 2018, 19:00

Latest Colin Clark KT including newest rumour of Paddon to M-Sport... on-loan !

https://youtu.be/MMVuAcgZNw4

seb_sh

11th October 2018, 19:08

Meeke to Toyota is quite a nice surprise, I didn't think we'd see him in a full time WRC drive again. It's good for the sport that he's still in, will bring some spice definitely. So that means Lappi to Citroen so the main players are settled and it's up to the rest to sort something out. The biggest unknown now is MSport's commitment and budget and i think it could stay that way until late in the year, maybe even december.

Hyundai: Neuville, Mikkelsen
Toyota: Tanak, Latvala, Meeke
Ford: Suninen
Citroen: Ogier, Lappi

still going round the musical chairs: Paddon, Sordo, Evans, Breen, Ostberg and also lurking around is Tidemand. Also interesting to see if Loeb does a few rallies again and if Al Qassimi stays with Citroen.

mknight

11th October 2018, 20:01

You are right and the problem is aswell that most work for the same employer! When Motoring/Motorsport news was seperate from Autosport and we had other publications such as Rally Sport then us Brits had a choice who to believe. Now Evans and Benyon have to follow the same editorial steer to avoid upsetting the promotors.

As much as I would like to support our home drivers I get as much joy watching a spectacular Estonian driver as much as the man from Dungannon.

To continue the topic. It's in a way understandable when motorsport journalists from "small" (in terms of rally) nations write biased articles about their drivers. Partly cause they often don't know much about rallying and partly it's to "promote" rallying in the country (= "look how great we are doing").
So when reading news from these you immediately expect some bias and learn to ignore it.

But with the brits in the "international" media it's different for me. They often are doing only rallying so they have enough knowledge. Stuff like Allive runs only in 1 language but likely majority of the viewers are outside of UK. As an "official" channel it should be as independent as possible, also because the viewers are international, and this is where it often fails imo.

It's not only the fault of the journalists though, it's very hard to keep sub-conscious bias out. The easiest way to improve it would be to employ more non-uk hosts/commentators/interviewers. As far as I know now it's only Molly that is not from UK. There are tons of ex-drivers/co-drivers around as well as motorsport journalists in other countries. Should be possible to find a few that talk understandable English and want to do the work.

Andre Oliveira

11th October 2018, 21:54

My guess:

M-Sport
Breen
Suninen
Evans

Citroën:
Ogier
Lappi
Østberg
Al-Qassimi

Hyundai
Neuville
Mikkelsen
Sordo / Paddon

Toyota
Tänak
Latvala
Meeke
Katsuta

Unfortunately no Tidemand.

noel157

11th October 2018, 22:53

Can you guarantee that he really asked for specific improvements and the team refused them? Probably you base that acceptation on a few comments from ‘unidentified sources’ that the Brit press eagerly spread. The same press that forgot to mention that Alexis Avril, the C3 WRC chief of project, is a good friend of Meeke (since the C2 Junior days) and always supported him. The same press that failed to mention that Poland ‘suspension’ was settled by the team with Meeke agreement, as he felt a break was needed. The same press that only question Meeke driving approach after he was fired, ignoring his error prone attitude through the years.

!

Probably you talk nonsense?
None of what I said is from the press in any form. Make what you want of that, makes no difference to me.
Oh, and by the way the drivers often referred to the C3 during development as the "bastard" but I expect you knew that, maybe not. I suspect you know little about the situation if you have to further dismiss my post by rabbiting on about "Brit" press reporting and "unidentified sources". Brit?

I've often seen attitudes like yours on this forum during the many years I've been a member. If you disagree with what I say, no problem. But there is a problem when you attempt to belittle and patronise me because you disagree with or disbelieve what I say.
Perhaps you should find some manners and a little respect.

Rally Power

12th October 2018, 08:01

I've often seen attitudes like yours on this forum during the many years I've been a member. If you disagree with what I say, no problem. But there is a problem when you attempt to belittle and patronise me because you disagree with or disbelieve what I say.
Perhaps you should find some manners and a little respect.

Asking others to find manners and show respect while making wrong judgments on their intentions speak volumes about the way you’re making your point.

To keep portraying Meeke just as a victim of a disarrayed team is as distorted as blaming him for all Citroen recent misery. Nothing is ever black and white.

pantealex

12th October 2018, 08:26

wrc2017

12th October 2018, 08:35

Yes, not yet confirmes.
But why so hard to believe.
For an aggressive team who wants to win rallys, he is the only option. no?
Maybe Makenin rather have Meeke in his stable, than as a #1 pilot at msport?
Also, as far as know, Meeke has no bullshit manager trying to overhype.
With Meeke you know what your getting, and maybe Makinen likes that attitude.

T16

12th October 2018, 08:40

So, I´m only one who still don´t believe that Meeke is Toyota driver 2019.

Outside this forum I know more than 10 people who also don´t believe, yet.

Interesting part is that all those people work in same place here in Jyväskylä or for same company in Tallinn ;)

Waiting for next week...

I think that given the impact that the news has had worldwide, someone would have made noises that it wasn’t true by now (as in someone official, not someone’s mate on here).
That headline wouldn’t have been written unless it was accurate. No matter what people think of Evans.

BobJones

12th October 2018, 09:16

My guess:

M-Sport
Breen
Suninen
Evans

Citroën:
Ogier
Lappi
Østberg
Al-Qassimi

Hyundai
Neuville
Mikkelsen
Sordo / Paddon

Toyota
Tänak
Latvala
Meeke
Katsuta

This would be very nice. Ostberg would be perfect as a third Citroen driver, bagging those points, and I hope a deal is struck for another C3.

Allez Andruet

12th October 2018, 09:20

So, I´m only one who still don´t believe that Meeke is Toyota driver 2019.
I'm with you! No matter what kind of press release TGR is going to publish, I probably won't believe it till I see Meeke actually posting a time on the Monte shakedown. On a Yaris that is.

Norm75

12th October 2018, 09:38

Well, looking at Twitter posts, one of the first to congratulate Kris on his Toyota move seems to be an employee of Citroen wrt, that appears to be friends with Kris in some way, so I think it may be happening.

Fast Eddie WRC

12th October 2018, 11:36

Anyone know why Meeke is driving a Fiesta WRC on Rally Legend ?

Vids:
https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/1910071702393932/
https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/1010487612463203/

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpTNxjuXUAAewm9.jpg:large

T16

12th October 2018, 11:40

Anyone know why Meeke is driving a Fiesta WRC on Rally Legend ?

https://www.facebook.com/135798096463261/posts/1990910030952049/

I guess just because that’s what’s been lined up/ agreed. Don’t think there is anything in it, especially given he’s going to Toyota.
It also might go some way to clarifying if he actually is still under contract to Citroen or not.

mknight

12th October 2018, 11:41

It's also old Fiesta.

Andre Oliveira

12th October 2018, 12:01

Marcco

12th October 2018, 12:06

At first I was a bit surprised about this Meek/Toyota thing, but now the more I think the more it makes sense. One thing is that Tanak and Latvala are consistent now, so it makes sense to have someone who can take some wins, even if he crashes out on some of the events. The other thing is Meek was always hired to be #1 (Mini/Citroen), and he did win, but failed to be #1 (fast and consistent). Now he will not be #1 (=less pressure). I think it could work out.

Kudos goes to Makinen :) He saw opportunity and took risks.

Fast Eddie WRC

12th October 2018, 12:09

Did I hear something about Meeke offering to drive for free a while back ? Maybe thats the attraction to Toyota, or even if its a pay-by-results contract...

mknight

12th October 2018, 12:15

Did I hear something about Meeke offering to drive for free a while back ? Maybe thats the attraction to Toyota, or even if its a pay-by-results contract...
C. Clark said it at a Kitchen Table not Long ago. People here said that was only valid for this year.

Norm75

12th October 2018, 12:20

Fredrik Gustavsson? He is not employee.

Yes that's the fella. Thanks for clarification, I know he's professional golfer but I used to play golf with the brother of a pro golfer and he also had a day job so wasn't 100% sure. Certainly gives the impression he is part of the Citroen wrt team.

T16

12th October 2018, 12:30

C. Clark said it at a Kitchen Table not Long ago. People here said that was only valid for this year.

He really should not be considered as any kind of accurate information source. He's going to get himself into trouble with a manufacturer or a driver one day with his constant speculative babble.

mknight

12th October 2018, 12:37

He really should not be considered as any kind of accurate information source. He's going to get himself into trouble with a manufacturer or a driver one day with his constant speculative babble.

And ppl complain and wonder why there is no "real" reporting in WRC, just press-release copying.
When even "speculation" is supposed to "get you in trouble".

Allez Andruet

12th October 2018, 12:45

He's going to get himself into trouble with a manufacturer or a driver one day with his constant speculative babble.

What he's supposed to do then? Read out loud press releases? Well that would make a fun KT, wouldn't it?

AnttiL

12th October 2018, 12:55

C. Clark said it at a Kitchen Table not Long ago. People here said that was only valid for this year.

I've also heard that one attraction for Toyota to hire Meeke would be the cheap salary, but these are just nth generation rumors...

mknight

12th October 2018, 13:01

Well relative to Ogier and Neuville who also were available this year his salary will certainly be quite a bit lower.

T16

12th October 2018, 13:11

What he's supposed to do then? Read out loud press releases? Well that would make a fun KT, wouldn't it?

If it's fun you're after, then fair enough, the kitchen tables will give you that, but I would rather hear them far less often and also with maybe speculation that is actually closer to what is going to happen. He literally dismissed Meeke to Toyota the day before a major UK publication declared it was going to happen. I just think he has no, or very little, insider knowledge and he's just guessing scenarios that we could all make up.

T16

12th October 2018, 13:13

Berke

12th October 2018, 14:48

Is it possible that Makinen considered Meeke also because he has a degree in engineering so that he may contribute well to the development process? Is this a thing or Meeke is quite rusty as an engineer?

Tarmop

12th October 2018, 14:56

Yeah, he has been really successful with the C3 and Mini.:D
But tbh, every driver has a part in development, most of the big job is done, it is about fine tuning and all drivers test, give feedback and collect data. For sure that wasn`t the reason for hiring.

Fast Eddie WRC

12th October 2018, 15:06

Meeke certainly has plenty experience of another 2017 WRC for comparison purposes...

Although I'm happy he seemingly has a 2019 seat, I'm sad is not with M-Sport. That would've made 4 Teams with a possible rally winner in contention.

I have to hope Breen can get a place with them instead. Or Paddon.

wrc2017

12th October 2018, 16:25

why meeke is missed...
https://m.facebook.com/LaTulaSport.es/posts/10155728388750404

cali

12th October 2018, 16:39

[QUOTE=mknight;1194938]And ppl complain and wonder why there is no "real" reporting in WRC

but what he's doing isn't 'real' reporting. It's guess work. And usually inaccurate too. The guy loves the sound of his own voice and he's built a following of fan-boys that probably don't really know that much about the sport, hooked onto his insights. Sorry, but for me, the guy is full of shit.I'm with you on this one. Could not said it any better myself. Usually if he gives some "rumours" it's the other way around.

I actually like David Evans for his accurate reporting. He has been quite precise. Maybe I do not share his views but he has been accurate so far. Not unlike CC with his kitchen table.

Fast Eddie WRC

12th October 2018, 16:45

why meeke is missed...
https://m.facebook.com/LaTulaSport.es/posts/10155728388750404

I already posted the link to the original video on the last page... https://www.facebook.com/EpicRallyTribe2.0/videos/1910071702393932/

racerx1979

12th October 2018, 17:00

Meeke rumors are true. He is on the team.

wrc2017

12th October 2018, 17:19

Meeke rumors are true. He is on the team.

why now are you so sure?

dimviii

12th October 2018, 17:24

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo1xnF8FShW/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=y8ag101crwr0

GigiGalliNo1

12th October 2018, 17:28

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bo1xnF8FShW/?utm_source=ig_twitter_share&igshid=y8ag101crwr0

This is Meeke at Rally Legend

dimviii

12th October 2018, 17:31

This is Meeke at Rally Legend
did somebody said something different?

Allez Andruet

12th October 2018, 18:07

If it's fun you're after, then fair enough, the kitchen tables will give you that, but I would rather hear them far less often and also with maybe speculation that is actually closer to what is going to happen. He literally dismissed Meeke to Toyota the day before a major UK publication declared it was going to happen. I just think he has no, or very little, insider knowledge and he's just guessing scenarios that we could all make up.

Ofcourse I don't watch the Kitchen Table for same purposes I watch Leslie Nielsen movies for, but I somehow fail to understand how people don't get that it's one thing he knows and another he tells the World on KT. It's just the name of the game. And no, I'm not suggesting he would know every single contract as they're signed, but it's quite obvious that KT does not represent everything Colin Clark knows of.

Got Mail

12th October 2018, 18:11

Ofcourse I don't watch the Kitchen Table for same purposes I watch Leslie Nielsen movies for, but I somehow fail to understand how people don't get that it's one thing he knows and another he tells the World on KT. It's just the name of the game. And no, I'm not suggesting he would know every single contract as they're signed, but it's quite obvious that KT does not represent everything Colin Clark knows of.

Agreed.

And, to be fair to Colin, he has never claimed to be a journalist. He is a presenter who comes from a sponsorship background (555 / Subaru).

racerx1979

12th October 2018, 18:20

why now are you so sure?

Well because I know for sure. Confirmed by sources within. Let's move on...

er88

12th October 2018, 18:22

I'm with you! No matter what kind of press release TGR is going to publish, I probably won't believe it till I see Meeke actually posting a time on the Monte shakedown. On a Yaris that is.I know you'd be with Pantealex mate, considering you were willing to bet all your money that Meeke wouldn't be at Toyota next year when I suggested it back in the Rally Finland thread, 3/4 months ago ;)

Meeke and Toyota were apparently speaking before he was dropped by Citroen anyway. So this doesn't surprise me at all, its just 3/4 months ago I would've had Jari leaving to make way for Kris, not Lappi.

Allez Andruet

12th October 2018, 18:28

I know you'd be with Pantealex mate, considering you were willing to bet all your money that Meeke wouldn't be at Toyota next year when I suggested it back in the Rally Finland thread, 3/4 months ago ;)
Thank god the bet never materialized. Not that anyone would have made any money out of it :D

Fast Eddie WRC

12th October 2018, 22:49

So as the Ulsterman gets a seat, the Irishman now looks to be out of one. Where next for Breen ?

M-Sport or part-time at Hyundai seem the only choices. Or could it be full-time there and Mikkelsen dropped after his poor year...

mknight

13th October 2018, 06:19

Or could it be full-time there and Mikkelsen dropped after his poor year...

Totally going to happen. They drop a driver under contract and replace him with one that has had even worse season.

noel157

13th October 2018, 08:37

I once asked Meeke (at a car launch, I knew the sponsor) if he read all the talk about him on the net. He said "no, life's too short".
As I alluded to earlier, WRC 19 will be a good season.

On another note what has happened Mikkelsen this season? I haven't looked at the stats but he seems be having a less than satisfactory season. Does the i20 not suit him or his driving style? Or is it a team thing?

AnttiL

13th October 2018, 09:39

Fast Eddie WRC

13th October 2018, 10:27

Totally going to happen. They drop a driver under contract and replace him with one that has had even worse season.

With Breen it's mainly been due to bad luck, not bad performances.

Mikkelsen has been awful in the i20 - Sordo and Paddon have out-scored him in a shared car.

Fast Eddie WRC

13th October 2018, 10:31

BTW, Breen leads Rally Legend after SS4. Dont see any times for Meeke ??

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpWTRLUWwAA5MHM.jpg:large

AnttiL

13th October 2018, 10:42

Meeke only in show car class, not timed

BigWorm

13th October 2018, 11:00

With Breen it's mainly been due to bad luck, not bad performances.

Mikkelsen has been awful in the i20 - Sordo and Paddon have out-scored him in a shared car.

Mostly of the time for Mikkelsen you could argue that's the truth, too

JUF

13th October 2018, 12:44

I took a look at Mikkelsen´s performances this year:

Monte: alternator problem early in the rally, after restart some good times (fastest guy on day 3)
Sweden: good and solid job, ended on the podium
Mexico: okay rally from him, became fourth, behind Sordo tough
Corsica: really disappointing performance, “didn´t have the feeling”
Argentina: was leading after the fourth stage, puncture in SS6, finished in fifth place in the end
Portugal: power steering problem on day 2, but no good stage times at all
Sardinia: leading after the fifth stage, gearbox issue made it impossible to set any good times afterwards
Finland: a real disappointment, slow times, off road on SS4
Germany: another disappointing performance, solid sixth place, but mostly due to the mistakes of other drivers
Turkey: battling for victory, ended 5th due to driveshaft issues
Wales: feeling was missing again, disappointing sixth place

So obviously the pace was missing in Portugal, Finland, Wales and at the tarmac rallies (as it has been already said before). Lot of bad luck as well, he definitely deserves another chance next year. I don´t see any reason to drop him.

BigWorm

13th October 2018, 13:21

Meeke only in show car class, not timed

I've seen Kris posting some of his times on his Insta stories, is he doing the same stages as the timed guys?

Simmi

13th October 2018, 13:29

I've seen Kris posting some of his times on his Insta stories, is he doing the same stages as the timed guys?

Yes. But the rally isn't really about stage times, regardless of what class you're in.

er88

13th October 2018, 13:40

Mikkelsen shouldn't be dropped, let's get that straight. But there could be an argument that he might be brought into the rotation of drivers along with Sordo and Paddon, if he doesn't improve early on next season.

Even in the events like Sweden and Turkey, he was crushed by Neuville's pace when Thierry had the worse road position. Even Breen beat him on pace in his "home rally", which was a surprise.

When you're holding up those events as his good ones it reiterates how disappointing a season he's had given the expectations he set himself, and the expectations many on here have had for him ever since Makinen overlooked him 2yrs ago.

Fast Eddie WRC

13th October 2018, 14:03

AnttiL

13th October 2018, 14:41

How about the fact that Sordo and Paddon combined have out scored Mikkelsen ? This despite being in and out due to sharing the 3rd car...

Scores:
Mikkelson 83
Sor & Pad 115

If you remove the extra rally which they all did (Portugal) it's:
Mikkelsen 83
Sor & Pad 100 (Sordo actually got 15pts in Portugal, the other two got Zero pts)

Paddon would have done worse in tarmac rallies and Sordo in fast rallies. Also, they have gotten good starting positions in gravel rallies. So it's a good deal for Hyundai, but not a realistic demonstration of how they would perform in a whole season.

Also, Mikkelsen has been very unlucky in some events but still scored consistent points.

AnttiL

13th October 2018, 14:43

Mikkelsen shouldn't be dropped, let's get that straight. But there could be an argument that he might be brought into the rotation of drivers along with Sordo and Paddon, if he doesn't improve early on next season.

I've said the same earlier. But the problem is all those three are at their best on technical gravel rallies. On tarmac Paddon and Mikkelsen are going nowhere and Sordo has recently a tendency to crash.

Perfect pairs for the drivers:
Mikkelsen - Meeke (tarmac rounds and Finland)
Sordo - Østberg (fast rallies)
Paddon - Kopecky (tarmac rounds)

mknight

13th October 2018, 16:07

I took a look at Mikkelsen´s performances this year:

Portugal: power steering problem on day 2, but no good stage times at all

Wales: feeling was missing again, disappointing sixth place

He was 4th in Portugal with not good road position ahead of the whole top 3 finishers before his power steering issues.

In Wales all Hyundais were terrible on friday, he was last of them. On saturday he set 3 fastest times and was fastest driver of the leg. So very mixed performance.

About Turkey (@er88) he was leading most friday ending within 1s of Neuville and Ogier, then as most remember lost driveshaft when leading 40s ahead of Tänak. Yes you could say he could have been faster than Neuville on day 1, but he was 16-35s ahead of everyone else including Tänak. So if you use this for criticism, nobody except Neuville and Ogier drove well.

mknight

13th October 2018, 16:15

How about the fact that Sordo and Paddon combined have out scored Mikkelsen ? This despite being in and out due to sharing the 3rd car...

Number of technical retirements for Sordo and Paddon:0
Number of technical retirements for Mikkelsen:4
3rd place in Monte
4th in Portugal
1st in Sardinia, Turkey
Neither appeared to be caused by him.

er88

13th October 2018, 16:43

Paddon would have done worse in tarmac rallies and Sordo in fast rallies. Also, they have gotten good starting positions in gravel rallies. So it's a good deal for Hyundai, but not a realistic demonstration of how they would perform in a whole season.

Also, Mikkelsen has been very unlucky in some events but still scored consistent points.You say that but could Paddon have done much worse on tarmac events this year? Mikkelsen has been the slowest or close to the slowest WRC driver on tarmac this season.

I'd still back Mikkelsen across a whole season over Sordo and Paddon, but the fact it's up for debate is the reason Hyundai are going to lose another manufacturers championship battle. Hyundai (and Mikkelsen) expected him to be up with Neuville as the two strong drivers to pin title hopes on. He's 106 pts behind...

@Mknight. I'm comparing Mikkelsen to his team mate in the same car. Hyundai had a rally winning car in terms of pace in Turkey, yet Mikkelsen ended the opening day behind Neuville who opened the road, and ran 4 cars ahead of Andreas. So yes, that's not exactly something to write home about. It's good in relation to the rest of the his season but not for a driver who wants to be world champion.

I'm not gauging Mikkelsen on the likes of Evans/ ostberg etc who most know aren't going to do anything. Many on here claimed Andreas was a future champion and Makinen was an idiot for overlooking him for Jari, and Andreas himself talked about aiming for the title at Hyundai.

If you want to compare him with the likes of Evans, a young Suninen, Breen etc then yeah he's doing ok and not having a bad season. But he has more expectations on him and rightly so. And in relation to that he's had a poor season. He said himself before poor results in Finland, Germany and GB, that he'd had "a nightmare season". I wonder what he thinks now...

If he doesn't step up his game Hyundai won't be able to justify giving him a full season when Sordo or Paddon sit out half a season again.

mknight

13th October 2018, 18:16

@Mknight. I'm comparing Mikkelsen to his team mate in the same car. Hyundai had a rally winning car in terms of pace in Turkey, yet Mikkelsen ended the opening day behind Neuville who opened the road, and ran 4 cars ahead of Andreas. So yes, that's not exactly something to write home about.

.. Makinen was an idiot for overlooking him for Jari

He was a bit worse than Neuville in Turkey with 1s behind on friday. But the argument how bad it was is a bit crazy. If you use the same argument on Tanaks teammates they should both have been fired by now. Ex. in Finland after friday Latvala was 23s and Lappi 1 min behind with better start position.

Mikkelsen has good tarmac record in multiple other cars. But it seems that until Germany this year they (both Hyundai and Mikkelsen) were not really investing much effort into trying to fix the issues. First when Sordo and Neuville also started to struggle (much slower than last year), it looks like something is happening.
Hyundai will like loose the title on Finland + tarmac pace, and I say they deserve it as it's issues they have known off for long time.

Fast Eddie WRC

14th October 2018, 14:25

Breen wins Rally legend in the Citroen C4.
‏
@CitroenRacing
WINNERS! �� #RallyLegend
https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1051470499832897536

Cant harm his chances to get a seat there...

AnttiL

14th October 2018, 14:35

You really think Rally Legend showoff helps getting a seat?

Ucci

14th October 2018, 14:53

You really think Rally Legend showoff helps getting a seat?

Forgett it....

wrc2017

14th October 2018, 15:24

Breen wins Rally legend in the Citroen C4.
‏
@CitroenRacing
WINNERS! �� #RallyLegend
https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/1051470499832897536

Cant harm his chances to get a seat there...

according to meeke instagram he unoffocially won 7 of 8 proper stages.

N.O.T

14th October 2018, 15:53

You really think Rally Legend showoff helps getting a seat?

yes he does... he is that basic.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2018, 06:26

https://www.mtv.fi/sport/ralli/uutinen/artikkeli/jari-matti-latvala-kommentoi-rallin-tulikuumia-sopimusuutisia-se-on-ihan-paivanselva-asia/7115188#gs.cARYgE0

New interview with Latvala (in Finnish). It's funny how he smiles and nods when the interviewer says (when asking a question about which teams will be strong next season) that "Esapekka Lappi is joining Citroen" :D

Latvala also quite clearly indicates that he will stay at TGR for next season. Not that it wasn't known already but anyway.

Andre Oliveira

15th October 2018, 11:24

M-Sport with:

Breen
Paddon
Suninen ???

https://www.velocitynews.co.nz/news.php?id=3819

GravelBen

15th October 2018, 11:47

“I find it quite amusing sitting at home reading the rumours and always wondering where’s that come from." - Hayden sums up silly season quite well, good to know the drivers get some entertainment from it too. :D

AnttiL

15th October 2018, 12:23

If Paddon would go to M-Sport, it would mean Hyundai would have offered only a half season. Who would do that half season in that case? Huttunen?

15th October 2018, 12:29

If Paddon would go to M-Sport, it would mean Hyundai would have offered only a half season. Who would do that half season in that case? Huttunen?

Would make sense as Sordo would focus on the tarmac rounds.

Can't see Ostberg winding up at Hyundai.

Allez Andruet

15th October 2018, 12:37

If Paddon would go to M-Sport, it would mean Hyundai would have offered only a half season. Who would do that half season in that case? Huttunen?

Huttunen might be a bit too green to share the third car with Sordo. I'd say it would be better for both, Hyundai and Huttunen himself, that the team will have "Östberg" in the third car with Dani, so the young Finn could focus on WRC2 title-chase and have the occasional fourth WRC in 3-4 selected events.

Norm75

15th October 2018, 12:54

M-Sport with:

Breen
Paddon
Suninen ???

https://www.velocitynews.co.nz/news.php?id=3819

If this is the case, then it may even be Hyundai that find themselves on the back foot.
Toyota will have an ex msport, and an ex Citroen driver on their books with knowledge of those cars, Citroen will have an ex Toyota and ex msport driver, and msport will have an ex Citroen and ex (or possibly shared) Hyundai driver. Hyundai look like they remain with drivers, with the exception of mikkelsen with limited knowledge of a dodgy Citroen, that only know the Hyundai.

In this scenario, it may be Hyundai's best option to have Ostberg in a shared drive with Sordo, having prior knowledge of both the C3 and fiesta.

Andre Oliveira

15th October 2018, 13:46

Maybe Evans can fit in shared i20 WRC and R5 season?

tomhlord

15th October 2018, 13:52

M-Sport with:

Breen
Paddon
Suninen ???

https://www.velocitynews.co.nz/news.php?id=3819

This would be an exciting lineup.

deephouse

15th October 2018, 13:55

Maybe Evans can fit in shared i20 WRC and R5 season?

They was interested in him already a while ago. So it could happen.

Norm75

15th October 2018, 14:01

Maybe Evans can fit in shared i20 WRC and R5 season?

I was going to suggest Evans, but said Ostberg on the basis he has experience of both Fiesta and C3, but agree Evans could maybe do a job in Hyundai.

Andre Oliveira

15th October 2018, 15:04

Lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dpjjv5UXcAAE6vS?format=jpg&name=large

Fast Eddie WRC

15th October 2018, 15:48

Fast Eddie WRC

15th October 2018, 16:00

You really think Rally Legend showoff helps getting a seat?

I said it wouldnt hurt. He certainly made a lot of it on social media.

All positive publicity is good when you are fighting for a drive.

Tom206wrc

15th October 2018, 16:06

French journal L'équipe of 12th october writes Lappi is about to leave Toyota, but WHEN is the official announcement :confused:

T16

15th October 2018, 16:10

Paddon on loan at M-Sport was rumoured by Colin Clark last week.

I thought it had legs as it would give Paddon the full-time drive he badly needs (and cant get at Hyundai); plus it gives M-Sport a driver with no or reduced salary to pay.

The main drawback is M-Sport couldnt enter the Manu's Ch'ship.

Why would Hyundai loan him out? He can't have a contract anyway for 2019, so why would they re-sign him and loan him out? Why not just not renew his contract and make him a free agent?

Tarmop

15th October 2018, 17:13

Huttunen might be a bit too green to share the third car with Sordo. I'd say it would be better for both, Hyundai and Huttunen himself, that the team will have "Östberg" in the third car with Dani, so the young Finn could focus on WRC2 title-chase and have the occasional fourth WRC in 3-4 selected events.

But does it have to be 50-50? Sordo wanted a full season last time, then Penasse said, that they came to an arrangement that he shares a car? So maybe it is something like Huttunen in Sweden and Finland ( Sordo is not keen on Finland)...

tomhlord

15th October 2018, 17:14

French journal L'équipe of 12th october writes Lappi is about to leave Toyota, but WHEN is the official announcement :confused:

On or before the 18th, if the rumour mill is accurate. Very soon if that's true.

tomhlord

15th October 2018, 17:15

I know Rally Legend is contentious around these parts, but I found it (mildly) interesting that Meeke has some form of sponsorship from both Alpine Stars and Michelin, plus a co-driver change.

pantealex

15th October 2018, 17:18

But does it have to be 50-50? Sordo wanted a full season last time, then Penasse said, that they came to an arrangement that he shares a car? So maybe it is something like Huttunen in Sweden and Finland ( Sordo is not keen on Finland)...

That could work, maybe Wales and Sardinia/Turkey/Australia for Huttunen also, 10-Sordo 4-Huttunen

Allez Andruet

15th October 2018, 17:23

But does it have to be 50-50? Sordo wanted a full season last time, then Penasse said, that they came to an arrangement that he shares a car? So maybe it is something like Huttunen in Sweden and Finland ( Sordo is not keen on Finland)...

That would sound much more reasonable (especially if the occasional fourth car is out of question, which it very well might be). Huttunen let's say in Sweden, Finland, Wales and Australia (?) and Dani drives the rest.

racerx1979

15th October 2018, 17:39

That would sound much more reasonable (especially if the occasional fourth car is out of question, which it very well might be). Huttunen let's say in Sweden, Finland, Wales and Australia (?) and Dani drives the rest.

If Breen and Paddon are off to M-Sport it would make sense for Hyundai to use Evans for the events mentioned above and maybe a few others and let Dani tackle the rest. Rumor has it Dani was offered a full drive with Citroen and he turned it down. Not sure if this was before they signed Lappi or what, but it tells us Sordo is just fine doing a few events.

Simmi

15th October 2018, 17:47

I know Rally Legend is contentious around these parts, but I found it (mildly) interesting that Meeke has some form of sponsorship from both Alpine Stars and Michelin, plus a co-driver change.

Wouldn't surprise me if Meeke has a different co-driver sitting next to him next year.

Norm75

15th October 2018, 18:10

Wouldn't surprise me if Meeke has a different co-driver sitting next to him next year.

Think you two are reading too much into it. Think he had the same co driver on the last rally legend.

Simmi

15th October 2018, 18:31

Think you two are reading too much into it. Think he had the same co driver on the last rally legend.

I'm not talking about Rally Legend though. I'm talking about next year.

denkimi

15th October 2018, 18:39

If this is the case, then it may even be Hyundai that find themselves on the back foot.
Toyota will have an ex msport, and an ex Citroen driver on their books with knowledge of those cars, Citroen will have an ex Toyota and ex msport driver, and msport will have an ex Citroen and ex (or possibly shared) Hyundai driver. Hyundai look like they remain with drivers, with the exception of mikkelsen with limited knowledge of a dodgy Citroen, that only know the Hyundai.
Neuville has driven Citroën and ford, mikkelsen has driven citroen and volkswagen, sordo has driven 3 generations of citroen cars and mini.

If by now they don't know what a good car is supposed to be like, they will never know.

Norm75

15th October 2018, 18:41

I'm not talking about Rally Legend though. I'm talking about next year.

Yes I know, but what do you base that assumption on?
I doubt Kris wants rid of Paul, as he has made only one serious co driving error in many years.
Does Paul want to stop co driving for Kris on the other hand, we don't know yet. Some seriously heavy shunts could possibly play on his mind, but that may be down to driving a dog of a car, he may feel more comfortable going to what seems to be the best car in the championship at the moment, but again we won't know until driver/co driver confirmation has happened.

Norm75

15th October 2018, 18:43

Neuville has driven Citroën and ford, mikkelsen has driven citroen and volkswagen, sordo has driven 3 generations of citroen cars and mini.

If by now they don't know what a good is supposed to be, they will never know.

None of those cars are used in the wrc now, so any comparison is of no technical use whatsoever.

janvanvurpa

15th October 2018, 19:14

None of those cars are used in the wrc now, so any comparison is of no technical use whatsoever.

You misunderstood what he is saying..
He says "they" referring to the people..Subject...then he continued with the verb "if they don't KNOW what good is supposed to be"

He said nothing about technical spec, rather they should KNOW--like possess knowledge---of what good is---and if they don't by this point, they never will.

Understand? Knowing something is GOOD is important even if you don't know all the details.. Knowing what is bad is also important..

And it is an absurdity of fan-based forums to suppose the majority of drivers at any elite level know how the inner workings of things actually work...there are technicians, engineers and mechanics who have the job of "knowing" the "how" of shimming inserts or setting up diffs or cam timing..

But they must KNOW when the car "works" right..they are DRIVERS

Norm75

15th October 2018, 19:23

You misunderstood what he is saying..
He says "they" referring to the people..Subject...then he continued with the verb "if they don't KNOW what good is supposed to be"

He said nothing about technical spec, rather they should KNOW--like possess knowledge---of what good is---and if they don't by this point, they never will.

Understand? Knowing something is GOOD is important even if you don't know all the details.. Knowing what is bad is also important..

And it is an absurdity of fan-based forums to suppose the majority of drivers at any elite level know how the inner workings of things actually work...there are technicians, engineers and mechanics who have the job of "knowing" the "how" of shimming inserts or setting up diffs or cam timing..

But they must KNOW when the car "works" right..they are DRIVERS

Yes I understood perfectly what he said and meant.
I know drivers are not technicians.
But a driver can, and should, be able to understand how a car behaves, where they can eek out a few tenths under braking, cornering, acceleration etc.
This is why I pointed out drivers with knowledge of current cars.
Case in point. Tanak leaves msport and joins Toyota.
Msport happened to win drivers and constructors championship last season, with the car tanak helped develope.
It has been said that Tanak has lead to developments of the Yaris, that has moved it a little bit away from the liking of Latvala/Lappi.
Funnily enough, Toyota are, at the moment, leading the Manus championship.

Rally Power

15th October 2018, 23:50

M-Sport with:
Breen
Paddon
Suninen ???

Yep, that would be great, but without a major sponsor it’s easier to believe it’ll be Paddon or Breen, rather than both, alongside Suninen. Plus paying drivers (including Block) rotating on a 3rd car.

Btw, what about Abu Dhabi? Will they continue with Citroen, move to another team or pull out from the series?

AnttiL

16th October 2018, 05:17

Wouldn't surprise me if Meeke has a different co-driver sitting next to him next year.

Just some time ago I heard that Paul Nagle was trying to find new seats, but it may have been before the Toyota deal came around.

EstWRC

16th October 2018, 05:22

announcement today, no? I doubt Lappi and Meeke both will be announced on the same dat, 18th.

AnttiL

16th October 2018, 06:04

announcement today, no? I doubt Lappi and Meeke both will be announced on the same dat, 18th.

https://twitter.com/esapekkalappi/status/1051891093887967233

Allez Andruet

16th October 2018, 06:12

If anyone at Toyota or Citroen HQ is reading this forum, just announce them already please.

GravelBen

16th October 2018, 06:57

Maybe they are going to surprise us, and want to sit around laughing at the rumours for a bit longer first.

Tarmop

16th October 2018, 07:00

Yep, that would be great, but without a major sponsor it’s easier to believe it’ll be Paddon or Breen, rather than both, alongside Suninen. Plus paying drivers (including Block) rotating on a 3rd car.

Btw, what about Abu Dhabi? Will they continue with Citroen, move to another team or pull out from the series?

They said that Breen could pay...maybe Paddon also (although, in that case, why not pay for the i20? Not possible to run 4 cars on every event?)

Simmi

16th October 2018, 11:48

Rumours appear to be true: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139415/meeke-splits-with-codriver-ahead-of-wrc-return

Andre Oliveira

16th October 2018, 11:51

That could work. I allready thought that some time ago. Kris need some refresh. Hope Sebastian Marshall is the chosen one. Great guy.

Hartusvuori

16th October 2018, 12:15

Rumours appear to be true: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139415/meeke-splits-with-codriver-ahead-of-wrc-return

It is true.

AL14

16th October 2018, 12:57

Poor Nagle, when he aknowledged about Toyota interest he should have been like "oh god, not again" :D

Kidding, I'm happy the separation seems to be amicable. We will miss his "Jesus Christ Kris" :)

Tom206wrc

16th October 2018, 13:42

On or before the 18th, if the rumour mill is accurate. Very soon if that's true.

Thanks so tomorrow wednesday, or thursday :)

Tom206wrc

16th October 2018, 13:46

...
Btw, what about Abu Dhabi? Will they continue with Citroen, move to another team or pull out from the series?

I guess Abu Dhabi continues with Citroën, as when the official news abour Ogier was written it said: "Citroën Abu Dhabi Team welcomes Sébastien Ogier and Julien Ingrassia" :confused:

Fast Eddie WRC

16th October 2018, 14:21

Poor Nagle, when he aknowledged about Toyota interest he should have been like "oh god, not again" :D

Kidding, I'm happy the separation seems to be amicable. We will miss his "Jesus Christ Kris" :)

It would take a strong mind to get back into a WRCar with Meeke after so many big crashes... and espcially that last one.

Fast Eddie WRC

16th October 2018, 14:23

Yep, that would be great, but without a major sponsor it’s easier to believe it’ll be Paddon or Breen, rather than both, alongside Suninen. Plus paying drivers (including Block) rotating on a 3rd car.

Btw, what about Abu Dhabi? Will they continue with Citroen, move to another team or pull out from the series?

What about Red Bull... will they go with Ogier ? They always seem to back the champion.

It'd be great if they stayed backing M-Sport but I cant see it...

dupanton

16th October 2018, 14:24

I guess Abu Dhabi continues with Citroën, as when the official news abour Ogier was written it said: "Citroën Abu Dhabi Team welcomes Sébastien Ogier and Julien Ingrassia" :confused:

Wasn't there some clash between Abu Dhabi and Red Bull? Don't remember it exactly, but I think it was discussed here in the past.

tommeke_B

16th October 2018, 14:27

Wasn't there some clash between Abu Dhabi and Red Bull? Don't remember it exactly, but I think it was discussed here in the past.

I heard RedBull is partly owned by people from Qatar, and the two wouldn't go together. Let's hope both M-Sport and Citroën have one of them...

er88

16th October 2018, 14:54

Red Bull are with Ogier and Citroen.

gheeD

16th October 2018, 15:46

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10460215

Miika Wuorela now putting out the news that what we already "knew" is fact and will be officially confirmed on wednesday ?

racerx1979

16th October 2018, 15:53

Interesting they mention Juho. I think Juho would have been the perfect Sordo (points man) for Toyota. They now instead have 3 guys who all want to be world champions. It will be interesting to see how Tommi manages things. He's done well so far..

AnttiL

16th October 2018, 16:07

tomhlord

16th October 2018, 16:14

It is true.

Rally Legend appears to have been an indicator for something at least.

A shame, Paul's reactions are priceless. Hope he finds another ride to continue his career and that the person alongside Kris is a good fit.

Hartusvuori

16th October 2018, 16:17

Rally Legend appears to have been an indicator for something at least.

A shame, Paul's reactions are priceless. Hope he finds another ride to continue his career and that the person alongside Kris is a good fit.

Meeke did Rally Legend with Brannigan last year already. He could be on the short list, who knows.

Hartusvuori

16th October 2018, 16:19

Would have taken again half a season for Juho to settle in and find the pace

As far as I've been told, Juho was seriously considered for this. He has done his share of testing this season, with good testing pace, and on events he brings in his laid back and relaxed atmosphere to the team.

Allez Andruet

16th October 2018, 16:28

Would have taken again half a season for Juho to settle in and find the pace

Probably the gap would not have been as big as it was at the start of 2017, but ok, that doesn't matter now. Interestingly the same could apply for Meeke as well - not to the same extent, but I wouldn't be surprised if Meeke himself had some ring rust to shake off during the first rallies of 2019.

And just to make it clear, it wasn't the point to compare Juho and Kris directly against each other.

tomhlord

16th October 2018, 16:34

Meeke did Rally Legend with Brannigan last year already. He could be on the short list, who knows.

Ah, fair enough, I guess another consideration would be recent knowledge of WRC events too.

tomhlord

16th October 2018, 16:35

Probably the gap would not have been as big as it was at the start of 2017, but ok, that doesn't matter now. Interestingly the same could apply for Meeke as well - not to the same extent, but I wouldn't be surprised if Meeke himself had some ring rust to shake off during the first rallies of 2019.

And just to make it clear, it wasn't the point to compare Juho and Kris directly against each other.

But also, for Meeke, no knowledge of Turkey and missing any new stages in the second half of 2017 certainly won't help.

mknight

16th October 2018, 16:41

Interesting they mention Juho. I think Juho would have been the perfect Sordo (points man) for Toyota.

He's nowhere near Sordo's stability and never has been (even at Skoda). Last year he crashed in just about every round in first half of season, in Corsica even twice.

AnttiL

16th October 2018, 17:22

As far as I've been told, Juho was seriously considered for this. He has done his share of testing this season, with good testing pace, and on events he brings in his laid back and relaxed atmosphere to the team.

I know, but it still would have been Juho's last season, and half of it would have been settling in for maybe a podium pace, like 2017. Had he continued to 2018, he could have kept that pace already from the start of the season. But it's if's and but's all over. Juho lost a lot of chances on his career before this as well.

T16

16th October 2018, 18:09

It is true.

I can confirm. 100% true.

RAS007

16th October 2018, 19:32

What about Red Bull... will they go with Ogier ? They always seem to back the champion.

It'd be great if they stayed backing M-Sport but I cant see it...

I wouldn't have thought so. They'll go where Ogier goes, which leaves M-Sport without a major sponsor, again. I can't figure out why they can't attract one.

16th October 2018, 19:35

I wouldn't have thought so. They'll go where Ogier goes, which leaves M-Sport without a major sponsor, again. I can't figure out why they can't attract one.

Maybe if there is a clash between Abu Dhabi and Red Bull, then Al Qassimi can take his cash to MSport.

GravelBen

16th October 2018, 20:22

Rumours appear to be true: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139415/meeke-splits-with-codriver-ahead-of-wrc-return

I'm pretty sure the 'speculation from NZ' Evans is talking about is a joke post on a facebook rally group, so I wouldn't read too much into that 'source' at least. Not sure what that says about his other sources though...

Toyoda

16th October 2018, 20:47

I'm pretty sure the 'speculation from NZ' Evans is talking about is a joke post on a facebook rally group, so I wouldn't read too much into that 'source' at least. Not sure what that says about his other sources though...

A great joke post it was!, but it is food for thought, considering there was no real or minimal acknowledgement of Read, and it was reaaaaaaally last minute.

racerx1979

16th October 2018, 21:17

Maybe if there is a clash between Abu Dhabi and Red Bull, then Al Qassimi can take his cash to MSport.

You guys should have seen Qassimi's yacht docked during Rally Turkey.... It was more like a modern cruise liner lol.

noel157

16th October 2018, 23:54

Meeke did Rally Legend with Brannigan last year already. He could be on the short list, who knows.

Derek Brannigan unlikely to be on a short list. Has tested with Meeke a good few times, couple of Legends and various national events past 20 odd years. Maybe one or two RGB outings but no WRC experience.

er88

17th October 2018, 00:31

Surprised Chris Patterson hasn't been mentioned...

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 05:29

So today's the day then...

Toyoda

17th October 2018, 05:32

So today's the day then...

It's been today for the last 18 hours :)

AnttiL

17th October 2018, 06:06

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 06:26

EstWRC

17th October 2018, 06:34

well, at the present moment we all know nothing.

or do you already know the results for 2019?

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 06:45

well, i know more than him. that is a fact. And im no journalist.

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1047443069916860416

Hartusvuori

17th October 2018, 07:01

Derek Brannigan unlikely to be on a short list. Has tested with Meeke a good few times, couple of Legends and various national events past 20 odd years. Maybe one or two RGB outings but no WRC experience.

I noticed the same that his WRC experience is non-existent. It'd be a risk to go with him in that sense. Maybe they continue to co-operate in the manner they have been so far.

Hartusvuori

17th October 2018, 07:03

So today's the day then...

Apart from Meeke's co-driver I think we have chewed these news already... Or can we expect Citroen to announce anything on Loeb, like this year?

Franky

17th October 2018, 07:37

or do you already know the results for 2019?

What, you haven't started to warm up your crystal ball yet?!

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 07:37

Apart from Meeke's co-driver I think we have chewed these news already... Or can we expect Citroen to announce anything on Loeb, like this year?

Think you're right. Hard to see how today's "news" would be news (Meeke's co-driver aside) after everything we've been told during the past week or so. As much as I'd love to hear some news about Loeb and Citroen in 2019, I think that will be left for another day (if anything's about to happen regarding that combination in the first place...).

Tarmop

17th October 2018, 08:09

If you remember the tweet by Elena, where he gave us confirmation about Lappi pretty much, you also remember reading from there that "from us, it`s good bye WRC".

EstWRC

17th October 2018, 08:42

It is out guys https://twitter.com/tgr_wrc/status/1052469533280227328?s=21

Wow...a month or two ago I thought this guy is done with wrc.

But he gets another golden ticket to return.

Congrats

T16

17th October 2018, 08:49

It is out guys https://twitter.com/tgr_wrc/status/1052469533280227328?s=21

Wow...a month or two ago I thought this guy is done with wrc.

But he gets another golden ticket to return.

Congrats

Get in.

EstWRC

17th October 2018, 08:51

Lappi news https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/citroen-signs-lappi-from-toyota/3196378/

Simmi

17th October 2018, 08:56

Couple of things - Toyota thanked Lappi for everything as he left while Citroen didn't mention a word about this year's drivers. Although admittedly it is easier for Toyota knowing Lappi has been announced elsewhere.

Also no mention of contract length for anyone that I could see?

Allez Andruet

17th October 2018, 09:12

Also no mention of contract length for anyone that I could see?

Two-year contract for Lappi.

Simmi

17th October 2018, 09:17

In Motorsport News today there are quotes from Penasse at Hyundai all but confirming that Sordo will be back for a shared programme.

Looks like the lack of a calendar until last week has slowed down talks with Paddon, as they didn't know which rounds were on the table to split.

Malcolm Wilson also saying they are focused on this year's title fight and to not expect any announcements from them any time soon.

N.O.T

17th October 2018, 09:18

This is a marketing move from toyota because from a riving perspective meeke has nothing to offer.

Norm75

17th October 2018, 09:22

Good video on Meekes Facebook page, where he explains his feeling with the Yaris, and how he feels connected to the road in it, a feeling he hasn't had for a long time.

wrc2017

17th October 2018, 09:26

Good video on Meekes Facebook page, where he explains his feeling with the Yaris, and how he feels connected to the road in it, a feeling he hasn't had for a long time.

yes very intetesting. Lappi going from that to the c3..
who is right and who is wrong. I've a feeling meeke will challenge for wins and Lappi will not.

Norm75

17th October 2018, 09:32

yes very intetesting. Lappi going from that to the c3..
who is right and who is wrong. I've a feeling meeke will challenge for wins and Lappi will not.

Yes, good q&a a couple of posts down too, says he hadn't been enjoying rallying for the last 18 months, and a rather telling line about Japanese culture of respect and honour that he finds refreshing!

gheeD

17th October 2018, 09:42

dimviii

17th October 2018, 09:44

Not that we dont know it but Latvala is still delaying the news.

confirmed at their twitter account

https://twitter.com/Rallyper/status/1052475845309272064

Norm75

17th October 2018, 09:47

Also on meekes facebook video he casually drops "who wouldve thought that Ött Tänak, Jari-Matti Latvala and Kris Meeke would all be in the same team" :D

Not that we dont know it but Latvala is still delaying the news.

Yes Latvala announced in the tgr press release along with Meeke.
I did note that comment in the vid though, tells us that Kris knows they are all drivers that have a similar all out style.

noel157

17th October 2018, 10:07

So, unlikely next year's WRC champion will be French?

Norm75

17th October 2018, 10:23

So, unlikely next year's WRC champion will be French?

Well, Budar speaking about signing Lappi saying things like, we were looking to sign two strong drivers, and together they will form a formidable pair (I may be paraphrasing) it looks probably just a two car line up, so Ogier will have to rely on Lappi as his wing man. Can't see that helping his cause.

T16

17th October 2018, 10:23

This is a marketing move from toyota because from a riving perspective meeke has nothing to offer.

If you think he has nothing to offer, what do you think his best result next year will be?

Hartusvuori

17th October 2018, 10:32

Well, Budar speaking about signing Lappi saying things like, we were looking to sign two strong drivers, and together they will form a formidable pair (I may be paraphrasing) it looks probably just a two car line up, so Ogier will have to rely on Lappi as his wing man. Can't see that helping his cause.

Two car line up has been mentioned weeks ago already.

N.O.T

17th October 2018, 10:33

If you think he has nothing to offer, what do you think his best result next year will be?

Meeke has nothing to offer anymore apart from making the brits a bit more interested in toyota...

His results don't matter, he cannot be champion and he will not give good points in the manufacturer battle... if he wins by luck or gets a podium or two the value of it will be that the brits who are not very bright to be interested a bit more in toyota...

plus toyotas useless incompetent management can now say that they are no longer a full finnish village team of nobodies that are getting carried by an estonian... its a win win situation both for toyota and meeke but not for the sport.

T16

17th October 2018, 10:40

Meeke has nothing to offer anymore apart from making the brits a bit more interested in toyota...

His results don't matter, he cannot be champion and he will not give good points in the manufacturer battle... if he wins by luck or gets a podium or two the value of it will be that the brits who are not very bright to be interested a bit more in toyota...

plus toyotas useless incompetent management can now say that they are no longer a full finnish village team of nobodies that are getting carried by an estonian... its a win win situation both for toyota and meeke but not for the sport.

What a load of rubbish. A driver, who is capable of winning, in the best car and who will probably fight at the top end on most of the rallys and you say it's not good for the sport. Yes, he will be good for exposure, but he is fast too.
You've spent a lot of time on here slating the Toyota team and now they clearly have the fastest car, by a long shot, you were pretty wrong about them, so lets see where your prediction of Meeke offering nothing driving-wise gets you.

noel157

17th October 2018, 10:43

GravelBen

17th October 2018, 10:45

What a load of rubbish.

You don't even need to read the post to know that, just see who wrote it. Same old drivel, it used to be funny but now its just boring.

Fast Eddie WRC

17th October 2018, 10:49

A lot of veiled criticism of Citroen in Meeke's comments on the difference at 'family-team' Toyota. He was clearly pretty unhappy for a long time..

Toyota has a great line-up now with popular, fast, exciting driver's.

Norm75

17th October 2018, 10:54

Two car line up has been mentioned weeks ago already.

Mentioned, but confirmed?

Norm75

17th October 2018, 11:02

Meeke has nothing to offer anymore apart from making the brits a bit more interested in toyota...

His results don't matter, he cannot be champion and he will not give good points in the manufacturer battle... if he wins by luck or gets a podium or two the value of it will be that the brits who are not very bright to be interested a bit more in toyota...

plus toyotas useless incompetent management can now say that they are no longer a full finnish village team of nobodies that are getting carried by an estonian... its a win win situation both for toyota and meeke but not for the sport.

Lol. Us Brits, who are not very bright eh!
Coming from the fella that has slated and written off the team that has won its second rally on returning to the sport, and is now leading manufacturers championship.
I'm guessing a certain team principle that has won four world championships and seems to be making the correct decisions running a world rally team, just might be a little bit more intelligent and qualified to be a good judge of who to employ, than someone who may just about be qualified to type drivel on his computer/laptop/device using both hands instead of the one . . But fear you may only be capable of stabbing at it one fat finger at a time ;)

Hartusvuori

17th October 2018, 11:03

Mentioned, but confirmed?

I can't find the source now, but I think it was from Budar's interview. Anyone?

Brynmor Pierce

17th October 2018, 11:12

Alain Penasse actually confirmed that at the Rally Forum two weeks ago now...

In Motorsport News today there are quotes from Penasse at Hyundai all but confirming that Sordo will be back for a shared programme.

Looks like the lack of a calendar until last week has slowed down talks with Paddon, as they didn't know which rounds were on the table to split.

Malcolm Wilson also saying they are focused on this year's title fight and to not expect any announcements from them any time soon.

EstWRC

17th October 2018, 11:20

I can't find the source now, but I think it was from Budar's interview. Anyone?

Yes on alllive at wales rally

N.O.T

17th October 2018, 11:43

Lol. Us Brits, who are not very bright eh!
Coming from the fella that has slated and written off the team that has won its second rally on returning to the sport, and is now leading manufacturers championship.
I'm guessing a certain team principle that has won four world championships and seems to be making the correct decisions running a world rally team, just might be a little bit more intelligent and qualified to be a good judge of who to employ, than someone who may just about be qualified to type drivel on his computer/laptop/device using both hands instead of the one . . But fear you may only be capable of stabbing at it one fat finger at a time ;)

no you are not very bright... to put it gently.

Toyota are getting carried by tanak... their car is trash.

When Latvala was in VW he was easily 2nd in the championhsip and mikkelsen 3rd... where is latvala now and last year if toyota is so much superior ? where are the other drivers with such a superior car ?

Tanak carries that worthless village team... where was toyota without him ?

T16

17th October 2018, 11:46

Tarmop

17th October 2018, 11:49

Latvala was fighting in the top last year, then came tech. issues and this season...who knows, probably his head. You will always be saying that, maybe just for trolling and irritating people, but deep down you know, that a car taking almost 4 consecutive wins.... its not just about the driver.

Rally Power

17th October 2018, 11:52

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-10460210
Miika Wuorela writing a sort of bitter column (in Finnish) about how senseless it is for Toyota to hire Meeke and how expensive it will become for the team.
Once we see the results of the combination, we can speculate if Paddon, Evans, Breen, Tidemand, Hänninen or Huttunen would have done better.

Signing Meeke can be risky but any of the drivers you’ve mentioned is far from Meeke raw speed; we keep complaining about how disappointing the drivers level sometimes is (behind the top 3 or 4) but Meeke is one of the few able to fight for the win in any event, which is great for the series. Besides, Makinen is not Matton and if Meeke starts behaving wildly it won’t probably take long to show him the exit door.

Well, Budar speaking about signing Lappi saying things like, we were looking to sign two strong drivers, and together they will form a formidable pair (I may be paraphrasing) it looks probably just a two car line up, so Ogier will have to rely on Lappi as his wing man. Can't see that helping his cause.

If Abu Dhabi stays, Citroen will likely have a 3rd car with a decent driver running most of the season (Al Qassimi has been doing only 4 events per year); if not, then it may be just a 2 car team, but a real strong one, with 2 of the current top 5 WRC drivers.

AMSS

17th October 2018, 11:57

no you are not very bright... to put it gently.

Toyota are getting carried by tanak... their car is trash.

When Latvala was in VW he was easily 2nd in the championhsip and mikkelsen 3rd... where is latvala now and last year if toyota is so much superior ? where are the other drivers with such a superior car ?

Tanak carries that worthless village team... where was toyota without him ?

There is actually some fact to this, without Tänak they would not have a single win this year and Lappi and Latvala combined would not have as many fastest stage times as Neuville and Ogier have on their own, I`m not saying the car is bad, it`s definitely not, but I wouldn`t say it`s by far the best either, the main difference seems to be Tänak and this is something he started to show last year in M-sport as well..

Norm75

17th October 2018, 12:05

N.O.T

17th October 2018, 12:18

Yes us Brits are not very bright. By the way, that world wide web that you're using to communicate with us thickos on, British invention. And the telephone wire that you're internet is connected to, oh . . British invention.
And, maybe, you watch rallying on your television . . . Guess what! Oh, you might be sitting in a house, held together with cement, which is . . Yes you've guessed it. And when it gets dark, you might want to turn that British invention called a light bulb on.

And, just for sick dogs like you when you're feeling ill, thank the Brits for the antibiotics that help you feel better.

that sentence proves it....

get that inferiority syndrome elsewhere... the general british population are mud eating simpletons... your intelligence is as good as comprehending the latest episode of eastenders...

You also owe a lot to greeks but the general greek population are the worst socially uneducated trash you ever come across...

Norm75

17th October 2018, 12:25

Oh good god, yes, we invented that EastEnders shyte as well. I'll let you have that one!

AnttiL

17th October 2018, 12:30

https://www.rallit.fi/esapekka-lappi-paljasti-yksityiskohtia-citroen-sopimuksestaan-meilla-on-mustaa-valkoisella/

Lappi’s contract says he won’t become solely Ogier’s helping hand and they will drive similar spec cars

N.O.T

17th October 2018, 12:38

T16

17th October 2018, 12:44

that sentence proves it....

get that inferiority syndrome elsewhere... the general british population are mud eating simpletons... your intelligence is as good as comprehending the latest episode of eastenders...

You also owe a lot to greeks but the general greek population are the worst socially uneducated trash you ever come across...

I bet they still know more about rallying than you do.

mknight

17th October 2018, 12:51

Did anyone expect Meeke would say he doesn't like the car and/or the team at this point? Or that he will give any praises to Citroen that kicked him?
He might be telling honest truth off course, but even if the opposite was true it would never get to the press at this point.

Anyway the most important part was Meeke saying he is there to help Toyota win manu title and enjoy it. If he keeps his focus on that instead of seeing it as his last chance for title and drives without pressure it could work well (like in 2016).

On a side note I didn't see anything about contract length?