Silly Season 2019

[Got Mail]

I think you've got it right re Evans and Breen. Onboard footage Elfyn always has his mouth wide open and a heart in mouth expression on his face, whereas Breen usually looks calm and collected. There is some great footage of Breen driving a MK2 escort in Ireland, flat out but chatting away to his co driver like he is on a Sunday afternoon drive. I think Breen is a more naturally talented driver and has another step, whereas I just get the feeling Evans is on his limit.

So, if we see Breen driving with his mouth open, can we assume he is close to flat out?

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138815/meeke-on-toyota-radar-for-2019-wrc-return

Today's third driver for Toyota: Kris Meeke. Of course, according to David Evans...

[Franky]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138815/meeke-on-toyota-radar-for-2019-wrc-return

Today's third driver for Toyota: Kris Meeke. Of course, according to David Evans...

Tomorrow: Mäkinen to replace Lappi in effort to increase TMR's yearly profit

[rp]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/138815/meeke-on-toyota-radar-for-2019-wrc-return

Today's third driver for Toyota: Kris Meeke. Of course, according to David Evans...

It would be interesting to see Kris and Jari-Matti to drive Toyota :) Certainly there might be a lot of accidents, but if Toyota is able to win Manufacturers title already this year also less pressure to win next year. If they are not able to drive well both of them will be out at the end of the season...

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DncknAwW4AA-iQ4.jpg

And of course it's worth a front cover story

[Norm75]

So, if we see Breen driving with his mouth open, can we assume he is close to flat out?

Maybe. My point was the facial expressions of both drivers. You can tell a lot from people's facial expressions and body language. To me it just looks like Elfyn is on his limit, Breen looks more relaxed. Most naturally talented drivers look relaxed when driving, instead of a rabbit caught in the headlights.

[Simmi]

So much smoke and rumours now that it really does seem like Lappi is gone at Toyota. Regardless of what you think about Meeke, I think he'd benefit greatly from some better man management that hopefully Tommi or maybe even Malcolm could give him.

[tomhlord]

And of course it's worth a front cover story

It sells papers I guess.

On a serious note though, I think he is a serious option but one of several. A long way to go still.

What it says to me is that Lappi is now gone. In the web article, interesting to hear that he's been to visit the factory.

[tomhlord]

Kalle did win WRC2 Australia 2017. (he was only competitor)

you are right, hasn´t won against others, yet.

He is factory driver in Skoda with 2+1 contract, so driving Skoda 2019 and possible 2020 also.

The great thing with getting in at Skoda is you are driving what is currently the best R5 car, with full manufacturer support, an upgraded car spec coming soon which you can have a hand developing and plenty of testing mileage. There is no better platform for a young driver IMHO, he's be best to stick that contract out until the end of the deal.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/gronholm-oli-neuvottelemassa-mm-rallitiimin-kanssa-kun-huhu-levisi-suomesta-kysyivat-etta-mika-juttu-taa-on/

Grönholm comments that when the Huttunen rumor came out he was talking with the Hyundai people and had no idea about it :D

[er88]

I said a while ago on here Meeke had been in discussions with Toyota, Hyundai too. Makinen clearly likes him so ofcourse he's an option if Lappi surprisingly leaves.

However I still don't see it happening unless Citroen have genuinely doubled or tripled Lappi's salary. Otherwise why else would he leave Toyota to join the red army??

I also still think it was bad call for Citroen to ax Meeke - despite somewhat understanding it. An Ogier, Meeke and Breen/Ostberg line-up is really strong and in Kris, Ogier would have someone else in the team able to mix it at the front on rallies next year. This season it's been clear Seb has suffered without Evans and Suninen taking big points off his title rivals - like Tanak did last season. Seb and Kris get along well too, with Meeke almost pushing for Seb to come into the team as soon as he left VW.

But if Citroen have the money to get Lappi AND Seb, then they'll certainly have a very strong driver line-up next season.

[mknight]

Meeke in Toyota would be interesting. Historically he performs well when not under pressure. In Toyota he clearly wouldn't be number 1, then again there would be the pressure from his teammate(s) being faster than him. So it could go either way. Quite a risky pick.

[bassist]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DncknAwW4AA-iQ4.jpg

And of course it's worth a front cover story

Very lucky man if this comes off!

[N.O.T]

David evans is like gigigalli1 of journalism...

no surprise that only basic like forms like the brits take him seriously...

[wrc2017]

David evans is like gigigalli1 of journalism...

no surprise that only basic like forms like the brits take him seriously...

Evans is not well liked. But you have to say...it looks like Makinen quotes are real.

[AnttiL]

Evans is not well liked. But you have to say...it looks like Makinen quotes are real.

Mäkinen is also a master of talking much but not saying anything. You could ask him about any driver and he will say "it's a possibility he will be a part of our team but we need to wait and see".

[Zeakiwi]

Probably more chance of seeing a young Japanese driver in a wrc toyota yaris for a round or two than meeke next year.

Can malcolm rebuild yazeed's heat treated fiesta?

[AnttiL]

Probably more chance of seeing a young Japanese driver in a wrc toyota yaris for a round or two than meeke next year

I think we can already just talk directly about Katsuta.

[tomhlord]

David evans is like gigigalli1 of journalism...

no surprise that only basic like forms like the brits take him seriously...

*life...

[Tarmop]

Probably more chance of seeing a young Japanese driver in a wrc toyota yaris for a round or two than meeke next year.

Can malcolm rebuild yazeed's heat treated fiesta?

What is there to rebuild? Only thing left is a steel carcass and that also gets pretty weak in a fire.

[dimviii]

Meeke just posted a photo,while last months had very little posts about rally.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn6hTyhF92_/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=nkvwikfy9nsp

[N.O.T]

the only realistic option for him is to get some sponsorship money and join m-sport... and is a realistic target if ford lose Ogier since they will need a big name in their team.

Why toyota would sign Meeke... they have latvala to test the structural integrity of the parts of the car...

[AndyRAC]

the only realistic option for him is to get some sponsorship money and join m-sport...

A British driver getting sponsorship money for a WRC drive - I'll believe that when I see it......

[Tarmop]

Evans?

[deephouse]

the only realistic option for him is to get some sponsorship money and join m-sport... and is a realistic target if ford lose Ogier since they will need a big name in their team.

Why toyota would sign Meeke... they have latvala to test the structural integrity of the parts of the car...

Couldn't agree more

[Norm75]

That photo has been posted on his account before now. The difference is the colour filter, which has been mentioned on Instagram the colours look like they reflect the tgr Yaris colours. Given the timing of this post and the new rumours circulating today, it looks like a deal may have been done.

[EstWRC]

people are now making contract conclusions based on insta photo?

[OnlyRally]

Colors are the same, the difference is that his face and the background are black and white.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There are only a few drivers and teams for them and most are saying they have deals. Get on with it and tell us !

I bet half of these rumours and the delay in announcements are just to put WRC in the social media and motorsport headlines...

[wrc2017]

there is 4 drivers that can win rallys on their own merit. The rest will fall into place. end of story.

[pantealex]

there is 4 drivers that can win rallys on their own merit. The rest will fall into place. end of story.

Who is your 4th ?

Mikkelsen or Latvala ?

[Norm75]

people are now making contract conclusions based on insta photo?

We'll see.

[AL14]

people are now making contract conclusions based on insta photo?

It's called "silly" season for a reason :)

[er88]

the only realistic option for him is to get some sponsorship money and join m-sport... and is a realistic target if ford lose Ogier since they will need a big name in their team.

Why toyota would sign Meeke... they have latvala to test the structural integrity of the parts of the car...But then again, in Makinen's eyes is there a better, faster driver available? To help support Ott, genuinely fight for top results and continue help drive the team forward. There's not a lot of better options.

Ostberg - no
Breen - no not yet, he's stagnated a little but does still have potential.
Suninen - no, but like Breen he does have more potential. Will be easily snapped up from Msport when he starts fulfilling that potential anyway.
Evans - no
Sordo - no
Paddon- No, he's hasn't shown top pace for a long time now and can't drive on tarmac anyway.
Pontus - unknown in top class machinery, but does have potential.

Those are the options if Lappi goes, or they stupidly fast track Katsuta. So i can see why they'd go for Meeke especially as Makinen likes him and recognises his speed.

However losing Lappi would be bad management surely. They must be lowballing him with that contract offer because Lappi is settled there, knows the car, it's a Finnish team and one that has a big budget.

[mknight]

However losing Lappi would be bad management surely. They must be lowballing him with that contract offer because Lappi is settled there, knows the car, it's a Finnish team and one that has a big budget.

Not so sure how well settled he is. Quite a lot complaining about the stalling under braking in Turkey, it's also same stuff that happened in Finland and also there he said that it's the same as in testing.

[wrc2017]

Not so sure how well settled he is. Quite a lot complaining about the stalling under braking in Turkey, it's also same stuff that happened in Finland and also there he said that it's the same as in testing.

while his team mate has won 3 in a row.

[N.O.T]

But then again, in Makinen's eyes is there a better, faster driver available? To help support Ott, genuinely fight for top results and continue help drive the team forward. There's not a lot of better options.

Ostberg - no
Breen - no not yet, he's stagnated a little but does still have potential.
Suninen - no, but like Breen he does have more potential. Will be easily snapped up from Msport when he starts fulfilling that potential anyway.
Evans - no
Sordo - no
Paddon- No, he's hasn't shown top pace for a long time now and can't drive on tarmac anyway.
Pontus - unknown in top class machinery, but does have potential.

Those are the options if Lappi goes, or they stupidly fast track Katsuta. So i can see why they'd go for Meeke especially as Makinen likes him and recognises his speed.

However losing Lappi would be bad management surely. They must be lowballing him with that contract offer because Lappi is settled there, knows the car, it's a Finnish team and one that has a big budget.

Meeke has nothing to offer to a manufacturer team like Toyota... they have tanak that carries them to his shoulders.

Meekes carrier lies either in a ford or in the sofa...

[Simmi]

However losing Lappi would be bad management surely. They must be lowballing him with that contract offer because Lappi is settled there, knows the car, it's a Finnish team and one that has a big budget.

This is an assumption, which I don't think is true.

[er88]

This is an assumption, which I don't think is true.It's weird why he wouldn't be settled there. But maybe it does seem like he isn't given his demeanour and some comments

[er88]

Meeke has nothing to offer to a manufacturer team like Toyota... they have tanak that carries them to his shoulders.

Meekes carrier lies either in a ford or in the sofa...Who would you replace Lappi with if you were Makinen? Think it's a tough one

[Toyoda]

Who would you replace Lappi with if you were Makinen? Think it's a tough one

Paddon, better number 2 than Meeke, fast on gravel and average but consistent on Tarmak.

[Essaj]

Who would you replace Lappi with if you were Makinen? Think it's a tough one

Tidemand or if you're waiting for example Kalle then Meeke/Sordo

[N.O.T]

Who would you replace Lappi with if you were Makinen? Think it's a tough one

Tidemand - Lukyanuk - Paddon if i wanted to take risks

Suninen for playing it safe

Meeke is like latvala.... a lost bet, drivers that have the speed for great things but do not have the mental strength to become great.

[spiderem]

french source is saying that ogier was supposed to test with citroen and Loeb those days (following chats during Solberg's son tests), however it was cancelled...

[mknight]

french source is saying that ogier was supposed to test with citroen and Loeb those days (following chats during Solberg's son tests), however it was cancelled...

Perhaps he signed already without testing ;) (or they didn't have free chassis because of Breen's fire)... many possible explanations other than not being interested in Citroen.

[EstWRC]

Some kind of announcement coming today?

E: it is solberg with r5 in Spain https://twitter.com/volkswagenms/status/1042699239795699712?s=21

[mknight]

Logical, they have Camili for comparison with his speed in other cars and Petter can just be a surprise + PR.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good to see Solberg back doing his real love, rally.

[Rally Power]

french source is saying that ogier was supposed to test with citroen and Loeb those days (following chats during Solberg's son tests), however it was cancelled...

Funny; other French sources have said Ogier already tested the car, which helped him decide to join the reds.

Btw, how brainless would be to invite him for a test saying: you can come next week, we’ll have Loeb also testing...


PS: it'd be great to see Meeke in Toyota.

[wrc2017]

Funny; other French sources have said Ogier already tested the car, which helped him decide to join the reds.

Btw, how brainless would be to invite him for a test saying: you can come next week, we’ll have Loeb also testing...


PS: it'd be great to see Meeke in Toyota.

if ogier tested..most likely on tarmac. of course the car feels good on tarmac. if i was ogier i would be asking wtf went wrong in turkey.

[Rally Power]

if ogier tested..most likely on tarmac. of course the car feels good on tarmac. if i was ogier i would be asking wtf went wrong in turkey.

No idea of MSport/Citroen Turkey PET dates, but it could be possible had him testing on gravel in Chateau Lastours (Fontjoncouse), when Citroen was there before Turkey. It’s a private facility, with restricted access.

[eib1]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnddjG6XcAU5y-x.jpg:small

[wrc2017]

No idea of MSport/Citroen Turkey PET dates, but it could be possible had him testing on gravel in Chateau Lastours (Fontjoncouse), when Citroen was there before Turkey. It’s a private facility, with restricted access.
he was not on PET.

[spiderem]

not sure if posted already but from belgium news site, Ogier to citroen is confirmed, 2 years:
http://lessportsplus.dhnet.be/moteurs/wrc/retour-au-bercail-pour-sebastien-ogier-qui-roulera-pour-citroen-5ba116a7cd7076ce3b404cd8

[bluuford]

It's called "silly" season for a reason :)

You can also look if Toyota is searcheing new welding guys via newspaper advertisments, and then assume who they might hire :P

[Rally Power]

he was not on PET.

Why not in the day immediately before or after?


not sure if posted already but from belgium news site, Ogier to citroen is confirmed, 2 years:http://lessportsplus.dhnet.be/moteurs/wrc/retour-au-bercail-pour-sebastien-ogier-qui-roulera-pour-citroen-5ba116a7cd7076ce3b404cd8

It’s still a info from an alleged inside source; not a proper confirmation. Apparently, every journo is eager to be the first to announce it…

[doubled1978]

I must confess, if Meeke did go to Toyota I think it would be interesting. A few crashes, a couple of wins...

[mknight]

I must confess, if Meeke did go to Toyota I think it would be interesting. A few crashes, a couple of wins...

Well there would for sure be drama.

Drama as he crashes/wins.

Drama from his fanboys claiming how he "has to overdrive the car" (like he did with previous 3 cars).

[dupanton]

not sure if posted already but from belgium news site, Ogier to citroen is confirmed, 2 years:
http://lessportsplus.dhnet.be/moteurs/wrc/retour-au-bercail-pour-sebastien-ogier-qui-roulera-pour-citroen-5ba116a7cd7076ce3b404cd8

He isn't exactly known as the most reliable source in Belgium :) Maybe he is correct, but very often he is wrong...

[tomhlord]

He isn't exactly known as the most reliable source in Belgium :) Maybe he is correct, but very often he is wrong...

To say it in such an authoritative fashion is convincing, however. Not "it looks like... or might be..." but it's happening and he's driven the car. Very interesting.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From the same Belgian source as above...

Will Seb Ogier sign with Citroën ?

Neuville: "I do not believe that. If he goes, it will be only for the money because he has everything he wants at Ford. If they offer him the same salary, he will stay where he is."

[pantealex]

Toyota:
-very fast (maybe fastest atm) 1st driver
-probably fastest 2nd driver, JML

What they need is reliable 3rd driver if something goes wrong with 1 or 2 driver

Meeke doesn´t fit in that role, that´s why they should choose someone else if Lappi leaves.

[tomhlord]

Meeke would be exciting to watch though, and so much about Toyota and TMR is about the passion for the sport. Certainly, they will get a lot of exposure too.

[Tarmop]

But which do they put first, passion or manuf. championship...or a combination of both eg. reliable 3rd driver top5 points scorer for emergencies.

[AnttiL]

But which do they put first, passion or manuf. championship...or a combination of both eg. reliable 3rd driver top5 points scorer for emergencies.

Or an investment in the future in form of a young driver.

[Norm75]

But which do they put first, passion or manuf. championship...or a combination of both eg. reliable 3rd driver top5 points scorer for emergencies.

Let's not forget, Toyota do have manufacturing plants in the UK, whether that might have any bearing on choosing Meeke over another driver, I don't know.

[tommeke_B]

Or an investment in the future in form of a young driver.

And what if the best option is to let others invest in young drivers and "steal" them when they're ready?

[OnlyRally]

To say it in such an authoritative fashion is convincing, however. Not "it looks like... or might be..." but it's happening and he's driven the car. Very interesting.
Driven what car???

[tomhlord]

Driven what car???

Keep up.


not sure if posted already but from belgium news site, Ogier to citroen is confirmed, 2 years:
http://lessportsplus.dhnet.be/moteurs/wrc/retour-au-bercail-pour-sebastien-ogier-qui-roulera-pour-citroen-5ba116a7cd7076ce3b404cd8

[OnlyRally]

Keep up.
Seems like mostly rumours.

[Rallyper]

Why not Breen to Toyota if Lappi leaves? A swop. And both happy?

[wrc2017]

Well there would for sure be drama.

Drama as he crashes/wins.

Drama from his fanboys claiming how he "has to overdrive the car" (like he did with previous 3 cars).

will you say the same of ogier doesnt master the c3?

[doubled1978]

Well there would for sure be drama.

Drama as he crashes/wins.

Drama from his fanboys claiming how he "has to overdrive the car" (like he did with previous 3 cars).

Maybe the thinking would be that with the Tanak & Latvala that they could afford a "maverick" in the 3rd car that could bring a few wins, even if he does stack it a few times also. If, and its a big if, he could win a few events they might see that as someone stopping a Neuville or Ogier winning that particular rally, and thus a help to Tanak towards Championship.

[mknight]

The question is if that would actually be better for manu champ and worse for driver. Bad for driver championship because there would be no telling when he would charge for win. And it's quite sure he won't settle for 2-3rd or react well to team orders.

But for manu + PR it could be good.

[doubled1978]

The question is if that would actually be better for manu champ and worse for driver. Bad for driver championship because there would be no telling when he would charge for win. And it's quite sure he won't settle for 2-3rd or react well to team orders.

But for manu + PR it could be good.
I agree with most of that, but I'm not sure about the team orders bit. Toyota hold all the cards as Meeke has nothing else it would seem, so a Number 2/3 contract with them, and a chance to win a few events is better than where he is now.

[wrc2017]

I agree with most of that, but I'm not sure about the team orders bit. Toyota hold all the cards as Meeke has nothing else it would seem, so a Number 2/3 contract with them, and a chance to win a few events is better than where he is now.
maybe he has more options than toyota.. its just tommy has spoken. eg.. if ogier leaves.. ford are in more need of a driver than toyota.

[RS]

As Citroen are the only team running just two full time drivers, and if we are to presume they want that to change next year then it's a pretty good market right now if you're a driver.

This might create opportunities for the likes of Meeke and Tidemand (who i doubt will stick with Skoda if they are not coming with a WRC in 2020)

[seb_sh]

I think the silly season depends on Ogier, once he decides the rest of the pieces can fall into place. After Ogier at the moment Toyota is probably the most wanted team so they can choose whoever they want, unless Citroen starts to throw some money around. With Neuville signed Hyundai can stay calm and wait to choose a 3rd driver.

If he stays at MSport then Citroen will probably push to get Lappi. So Toyota will need to replace him with someone like Suninen or Breen, maybe Paddon. That could free up a space for Meeke or Tidemand.

If he goes to Citroen then Toyota probably stays as is and MSport need a driver, could be Ostberg if they go to money saving mode.

A bit more aggressive for Citroen would be to get both Ogier and Lappi so that would be a mix of both other situations, but I doubt they will do it, but it would be a good shake up of the team. Also keep Breen and that would be a very strong team.

we'll see

[er88]

Anyone heard of any secret tests happening in a Yaris over the past month?

[Tarmop]

I`m sure that Ogier`s one demand is having at least one wingman. Breen isn`t up to it yet.

[doubled1978]

maybe he has more options than toyota.. its just tommy has spoken. eg.. if ogier leaves.. ford are in more need of a driver than toyota.

Maybe he has, but we haven't heard anything about that...I suppose in theory, he could be the 3rd driver at Hyundai also.

[AnttiL]

if ogier leaves.. ford are in more need of a driver than toyota.

I think M-Sport would just take a season off chasing titles.

[Tarmop]

Or two or three...with paying drivers it is not so important.

[tomhlord]

Seems like mostly rumours.

Yes, we've gone around in circles here...

[wrc2017]

Yes, we've gone around in circles here...

more moves in the driver market im hearing this morning...

[T16]

more moves in the driver market im hearing this morning...

that post would be better if you gave us a clue.

[Ivo]

Hyundai: Neuville, Paddon, Mikkelsen
M-Sport: Evans, Meeke, Suninen
Toyota: Tanak, Lappi, Latvala
Citroen: Ogier, Sordo, Breen/Ostberg

[tomhlord]

Citroen: Ogier, Sordo, Breen/Ostberg

With this theory, instead of two backup drivers, Ogier will now have three.

[deephouse]

What's with all these partners who sign with WRC one after another? Or is that happening all the time and media just novadays publish all that is related to it.

[pantealex]

Ogier is key, yes.

But Toyota for sure want´s Lappi answer very soon. They have no reason to wait Ogier´s decision...

Lappi just can´t say "Hey Tommi I will drive Toyota if I don´t get 1st Citroen seat"

Tommi doesn´t say "we will keep seat open for Lappi until Ogier makes his decision"

[Rally Power]

Toyota:
-very fast (maybe fastest atm) 1st driver
-probably fastest 2nd driver, JML
What they need is reliable 3rd driver if something goes wrong with 1 or 2 driver
Meeke doesn´t fit in that role, that´s why they should choose someone else if Lappi leaves.

Fair point, but what about this ‘à la Hyundai’ alternative: Latvala and Meeke sharing a car? Like Sordo, their title dreams are long gone and they could have a more relaxed approach to events (Meeke ’16 half season went quite well). On the 3rd Yaris Makinen could get Hanninen back or invest in a young guy, like many suggested. Anyway, it’s quite a surprise to see this turbulence at Toyota; they seemed pretty balanced.

[mknight]

Not quite sure if I'd call it balanced. Tanak is dominating while the two others struggle.

Latvala and Lappi have not led a rally for even a single stage after 10 rounds, with what often looks like the fastest car, that's actually quite amazing. The only rallies where one of them got podium on pure pace was Latvala in Finland (a rally where he dominated last year until technical issue), Monte is hard to count with 3 cars ahead of him hitting issues. Lappi has been complaining now on last 2 gravel rallies about gearbox not shifting down and stalling the engine and repeated it also happens on tests.

Might be that the changes introduced after Tanak came don't really suit them that much, Latvala even voiced something along those lines recently.

[KiwiWRCfan]

What's with all these partners who sign with WRC one after another? Or is that happening all the time and media just novadays publish all that is related to it.

Promoter is doing their job well.
* More sponsors
* Evolving calendar
* Increasing global television coverage
* Development of WRC All Live

[jonkka]

Anyway, it’s quite a surprise to see this turbulence at Toyota

What turbulance? So far everything I've seen is fiction created by media or fans.

[tomhlord]

Not quite sure if I'd call it balanced. Tanak is dominating while the two others struggle.

Latvala and Lappi have not led a rally for even a single stage after 10 rounds, with what often looks like the fastest car, that's actually quite amazing. The only rallies where one of them got podium on pure pace was Latvala in Finland (a rally where he dominated last year until technical issue)

This is a good point. But let's say, hypothetically, Lappi moves to Citroen and so does Ogier, he'll never be allowed to win a rally again.

[mknight]

What turbulance? So far everything I've seen is fiction created by media or fans.

Well media wants to sell/get clicks and fans like to speculate, so off course there is a lot of that.

Let's just list the facts:

- Neither Latvala nor Lappi have been announced as signed for Toyota next year and it's becoming relatively late in the usual signing season. If it was straightforward they would have announced them already, there is no reason to hold back on announcing it since they are in the same team.

- Latvala said he knows there will be changes in the teams and that he has contract for next year, but wouldn't say for which team. Again if it was 100% sure it was Toyota it would be strange not to announce it. Either it's somewhere else or there are multiple offers.

[AnttiL]

I think we’ll be a lot wiser next week

[dnb]

Latvala saying "there will be changes"? In Toyota or overall? Ogier to Citroen for example is a change or 1 departure from Hyundai.

[pantealex]

Well media wants to sell/get clicks and fans like to speculate, so off course there is a lot of that.

Let's just list the facts:

- Neither Latvala nor Lappi have been announced as signed for Toyota next year and it's becoming relatively late in the usual signing season. If it was straightforward they would have announced them already, there is no reason to hold back on announcing it since they are in the same team.

- Latvala said he knows there will be changes in the teams and that he has contract for next year, but wouldn't say for which team. Again if it was 100% sure it was Toyota it would be strange not to announce it. Either it's somewhere else or there are multiple offers.

Neuville is only one announced as signed, does that mean everyone else (driver/team) are in turbulance?

Toyota is factory team from Japan, those Japanise decide when they announce their drivers. Previus years they had press conference where they introduced all 3 drivers same time.

Fact is that Latvala has deal for all rallies, so not sharing car with "Meeke"

I`m personally 100% sure that JML has signed with TGR. Lappi situation is bit open...

[pantealex]

I think we’ll be a lot wiser next week

Possible but it´s also possible that some news comes only after Catalonia...
so it could be long wait.

[jonkka]

- Neither Latvala nor Lappi have been announced as signed for Toyota next year and it's becoming relatively late in the usual signing season.

Neither has anyone else except Tanak and Neuville. When Ogier makes his move, rest of the pieces will fall in. Until then, every driver and every team are preparing multiple solutions to as many possible permutations as they possibly can. And that is the only fact, even Latvala's generic there'll be changes is just statement of affairs in general, I believe.

[AnttiL]

Mikkelsen also has a deal for next year at Hyundai.

Latvala and Suninen are confirmed to drive full seasons next year.

Rovanperä is confirmed to stay at Skoda.

[Rally Power]

What turbulance? So far everything I've seen is fiction created by media or fans.

Yep, lot’s of fiction and rumours, as usual on a silly season; but if Latvala already has a contract whoudn't it be simple having Makinen announce it? And Lappi situation doesn't seem to be just a rumour; even Makinen revealed it wasn’t granted he would continue. That’s why it makes sense to talk about turbulence; especially once everyone was expecting Toyota would easily keep the current line-up.

[GravelBen]

Yep, lot’s of fiction and rumours, as usual on a silly season; but if Latvala already has a contract whoudn't it be simple having Makinen announce it?

Maybe they just realise they can get much more publicity mileage by leaving people guessing for longer even if it is already decided.

[Zeakiwi]

and there is still plenty of time before the end of year for someone to slip in the shower or have a mountain bike accident to alter plans( not that I wish ill fortune to happen to anyone)

[AnttiL]

These contracts are complicated and probably Toyota for example wants to announce the whole lineup at once, thus Latvala’s contract would be hidden now

[Allez Andruet]

These contracts are complicated and probably Toyota for example wants to announce the whole lineup at once, thus Latvala’s contract would be hidden now

Exactly. And I'm pretty sure Tommi has no say regarding when the line-up will be announced. Toyota is such a massive corporation that most likely the timing of every single press release / public announcement is managed more or less centrally by HQ.

[racerx1979]

The only question currently for Toyota is Lappi. Apparently when Toyota guys went to TMG in Germany, Lappi went to have talks with Citroen. Tommi is aware of this and they are now playing the same game as Lappi.

Lappi wants more money (as would anyone else in his position) and Toyota is playing hardball as well by being open about speaking to Meeke or bringing in Huttunen. I think Lappi has put the team in a difficult position since he actually is a good choice overall if you ask me...

[OHL]

The only question currently for Toyota is Lappi. Apparently when Toyota guys went to TMG in Germany, Lappi went to have talks with Citroen. Tommi is aware of this and they are now playing the same game as Lappi.

Lappi wants more money (as would anyone else in his position) and Toyota is playing hardball as well by being open about speaking to Meeke or bringing in Huttunen. I think Lappi has put the team in a difficult position since he actually is a good choice overall if you ask me...

Do you think it's Toyota playing hardball here? Its really hard, neigh impossible, to think that Toyota would consider seriously to bring Huttunen in, and Lappi would know that. Tommi may want Meeke but do Toyota want him?
Who knows what is really happening behind the scenes but we do know that what we see in public is only what we are intended to see.

Lappi is a great choice for Toyota and Toyota is a great choice for Lappi. The team is based in his home country and Toyota obviously have a passion for rallying. It seems a bit wide of the mark to think Lappi would move to Citroen purely for money.

[AnttiL]

Apparently when Toyota guys went to TMG in Germany, Lappi went to have talks with Citroen.


He went home because his second child had been just born.

But still, I believe he’s out of the team.

[racerx1979]

He went home because his second child had been just born.

But still, I believe he’s out of the team.

This is true, but apparently he met with a few people before flying home.
Same with Turkey. I was on the plan with his co-driver, but Lappi had left early to be with his son and also had met with the Even guys ( three of them) and a few others.

I also think Lappi is out unless things change. Meeke to Toyota could be a possibility. I honesty would take Sordo over Meeke to save money .. lol.

[tomhlord]

I honesty would take Sordo over Meeke to save money .. lol.

In a ideal world, sure, but I think Dani is quite happy where he is.

[Tarmop]

Carwise yes, but there`s a talk about him wanting to do a whole season again

[tomhlord]

Carwise yes, but there`s a talk about him wanting to do a whole season again

Good point.

Although, interesting to hear that perhaps Mikkelsen's contract doesn't necessarily have to be for each and every rally.

[Tarmop]

Yup, definitely interesting, especially after quite bad performance so far. Then we have Paddon, who has a big support from Hyundai NZ but if he hasn`t given up (which i don`t think) and become a hobby driver, needs a full season ASAP. So both Sordo and Paddon not very keen on sharing a car.

[mknight]

Yup, definitely interesting, especially after quite bad performance so far. Then we have Paddon, who has a big support from Hyundai NZ but if he hasn`t given up (which i don`t think) and become a hobby driver, needs a full season ASAP. So both Sordo and Paddon not very keen on sharing a car.

I very much doubt Mikkelsen is not driving full season. As to his bad performance, while certainly much worse than expected after the 3 rallies in I20 at the end of 2017 it's certainly not terrible.

5 times he dropped out of top placement due to issues. 4 times technical issues with car (Turkey from 1st, Sardinia from 1st, Monte from 3rd, Portugal from 4th (ahead of later top 3 cars), 1 puncture (Argentina from 1st)).

Mikkelsen was faster than Paddon 3 times (SWE, SARD, TURK), Paddon faster once (FIN) + Portugal until crash.

Sordo has very good results this year, however, if you look at it in detail he actually was driving at about same speed on same rallies last year as well, but had technical issues with the car on many rallies. (similar to Mikkelsen this year). He is also obviously not driving the rallies where he never did well (FIN, GB...).

I agree that sharing the car is not good for Paddon. However if Hyundai choose based on performance they should pick Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo (if he wants), they have Huttunen for development. Off course there might be other factors (NZ support) that push Paddon. I somehow expect that one of them will switch teams instead, would be better for both.

[EstWRC]

i expect some announcements this week.

Most probably Ogier or the Toyota situation.

[jbmarcus21]

ACM published RG1... but its noticed that new manufacturers could be enter to WRC soon ... Who ? ► http://bit.ly/2QVwXgz

[tomhlord]

ACM published RG1... but its noticed that new manufacturers could be enter to WRC soon ... Who ? ► http://bit.ly/2QVwXgz

I hope another manufacturer joins, but it would be a big challenge to go against the four established teams. A year or more to develop a new car, so 2020 at the earliest.

[racerx1979]

Porsche for RGT? Skoda? VW? Proton?... Season is too silly at this point and I love it!

[Allez Andruet]

It seems a bit wide of the mark to think Lappi would move to Citroen purely for money.
Not necessarily. Lappi earns his living by driving a rally car and in such matters money usually plays a big role. I don't think WRC drivers are any different on that. Like in all sports, you should earn enough money to cover your needs for years to come in relatively short period of time. And in that sense, it sure makes difference whether you make 300k€ or 500k€ per year. Those amounts are ofcourse hypothetical, but if the gap between the offers from Toyota and Citroen is even close to that, all the other features suddenly don't mean so much anymore.

[Duvel]

For me the teams should be like this:

Toyota Tanak, JML, Tidemand
Hyunday Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo
Citroen Ogier, Lappi, Breen
Msport Meeke, Suninen, Paddon

Third drivers can be diffrent.
I would like to see the (in my opinion) 4 fastest drives in four diffrent teams.

[Eli]

......and in English: http://acm.mc/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/RAMC-2019-Rally-Guide-1-GB.pdf
First page, doesn't say if it's for WRC or WRC2.....

[racerx1979]

Not necessarily. Lappi earns his living by driving a rally car and in such matters money usually plays a big role. I don't think WRC drivers are any different on that. Like in all sports, you should earn enough money to cover your needs for years to come in relatively short period of time. And in that sense, it sure makes difference whether you make 300k€ or 500k€ per year. Those amounts are ofcourse hypothetical, but if the gap between the offers from Toyota and Citroen is even close to that, all the other features suddenly don't mean so much anymore.

Honestly your pricing is not too far off. Rumor has it Lappi was underpaid this year... I would move for 200k per year more.

[mknight]

Honestly your pricing is not too far off. Rumor has it Lappi was underpaid this year... I would move for 200k per year more.

Right now he is surely the most wanted driver after Ogier, from all the drivers without contract (for some maybe even more than Ogier cause he costs nowhere near as much).

When else should he fight for more money.

[deephouse]

Maybe Skoda will step up for the big trophy and Volkswagen will debut (even if they say they will not compete with contructors) in WRC2. I mean it's possible. If they dominate that world too they could sell a huge amount of Polos across the world. I think that Proton will not be in WRC2 because everything shuts down at the moment, at least for the media. Polo have a huge development and is practically mentioned every week somewhere, on the other side that little Iriz is meant for nationals only like Mirage and Corsa (if they will build one).

I hope that this news brings one more to the game, and I really hope that then one of them will not pull out from sport. M-Sport or Citroen (if they don't get Ogier).

[eib1]

ACM published RG1... but its noticed that new manufacturers could be enter to WRC soon ... Who ? ► http://bit.ly/2QVwXgz

this time it`s simple - VW and WRC2

[racerx1979]

this time it`s simple - VW and WRC2

Possibly, but they are entering as early as Spain so it should have been listed??

[Fast Eddie WRC]

OGIER: �� @autohebdo are reporting today that Sébastien Ogier will return to Citroën in 2019. They also claim he's already tested the C3 WRC in the south of France ���� @OfficialWRC | #WRC | #WRCLive https://t.co/mIcsybTGvG

https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/ogier-bientot-confirme-chez-citroen-197765.html

[Hartusvuori]

this time it`s simple - VW and WRC2

So after about two years of saying Polo R5 will be a customer car, not a manufacturer entry, they'd go the other way? Hmm. No.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

#WRC Kris Meeke will drive @Rallylegend San Marino in october with FORD FIESTA WRC ► https://t.co/TTeV7Va1I3 https://t.co/PECgQjofXz

Hmmm...

[Rally Power]

Porsche for RGT? Skoda? VW? Proton?... Season is too silly at this point and I love it!

Hard to believe VW directly competing Skoda; Proton will probably be more interested in the APRC, so there’s only one left: Porsche!

[Rally Power]

OGIER: �� @autohebdo are reporting today that Sébastien Ogier will return to Citroën in 2019. They also claim he's already tested the C3 WRC in the south of France ���� @OfficialWRC | #WRC | #WRCLive https://t.co/mIcsybTGvG
https://www.autohebdo.fr/wrc/actualites/ogier-bientot-confirme-chez-citroen-197765.html

Yep, even if the piece is safely written in a conditional form starting with “Ogier would be close to return at Citroen next year”, Auto Hebdo is ussualy a reliable source and they’re basically confirming the sign, as the cover shows:

https://www.autohebdo.fr/sites/default/files/styles/couverture_magazine_on/public/magazine/couv_2.jpeg?itok=3-R2N0By

Literally: “Ogier at Citroen. When will WRC marriage of the year be announced?”

[mknight]

#WRC Kris Meeke will drive @Rallylegend San Marino in october with FORD FIESTA WRC ► https://t.co/TTeV7Va1I3 https://t.co/PECgQjofXz

Hmmm...
Weird, wasn't he supposed to run exMcrae car? Also doesn't say which fiesta, quite unlikely its 2017 one.

Anyway I am all for Meeke at Msport if Ogier goes to Citroen. At least all 4 teams will have fast drivers.

[AnttiL]

Weird, wasn't he supposed to run exMcrae car? Also doesn't say which fiesta, quite unlikely its 2017 one.

Anyway I am all for Meeke at Msport if Ogier goes to Citroen. At least all 4 teams will have fast drivers.

Ford Fiesta WRC literally means the 2017-2018 version. The older models are Fiesta RS WRC.

[SubaruNorway]

Weird, wasn't he supposed to run exMcrae car? Also doesn't say which fiesta, quite unlikely its 2017 one.

Anyway I am all for Meeke at Msport if Ogier goes to Citroen. At least all 4 teams will have fast drivers.

Pretty sure i saw 2014 on the entry list

[dimviii]

Pretty sure i saw 2014 on the entry list

https://twitter.com/OpensTightens/status/1044602440107085824

[noel157]

Anybody know if Meeke's Citroen contract ends after Rally Oz or runs to the end of December?

[Andre Oliveira]

Maybe some kind of “we let Ogier test and you let Meeke free sooner?”

[Tarmop]

Wouldn't he be in Wales then?

[pantealex]

Wouldn't he be in Wales then?

???

(Wales entry closed month ago)

[Tarmop]

Ogier also probably started his talks with Citroen earlier...

[mknight]

Maybe we are making too much out of it. 2014 Fiesta is available from private owners/teams.
Might be he is just driving for fun and/or to show himself without any risks. Might also be that Citroen contract prohibits him from taking part in competition but not in a show event.

[RS]

If Lappi does leave for Citroen, any chance of seeing Hanninen in his place? I felt he was just getting his act together towards the end of last year..

[racerx1979]

If Lappi does leave for Citroen, any chance of seeing Hanninen in his place? I felt he was just getting his act together towards the end of last year..

Juho still on the team testing cars and always getting seat time. Would be an easy choice since he knows the car well. A lot better of a choice than a few people actually. But we don't hear about him because he is behind the scenes.

[er88]

There are rumours Meeke has secretly tested the Yaris in the last few weeks/month.

Anyone heard anything else along those lines?

[racerx1979]

Rumors are rumors :)

[mknight]

Imagine Latvala and Meeke in same team, Toyota would have to re-tool a factory just to make new WRC parts ;) And you might even get 2 Toyotas retiring immediately with damage... ohh wait that already happened in Portugal this year :)

[racerx1979]

Latvala has not destroyed cars IMO. Last year he had technical issues and only one off in AUS.
Meeke is another story, but maybe someone like Tommi can work with a Meeke....
Tanak used to wreck cars like crazy also...

[er88]

Latvala in the last two years has been pretty solid tbf. Maybe lacking the outright speed he used to have, but fewer big offs and crashes.

[mknight]

True, recently it's not the same as it used to be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Jpt92dJ9M), nowadays he just breaks something. (ARG, POR + off in Corsica)

Was just fun-troll.

EDIT: Checking the Corsica footage, he really puts some weight into the V-word :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeqBPsekPkg

[Zeakiwi]

Latvala has not destroyed cars IMO. Last year he had technical issues and only one off in AUS.
Meeke is another story, but maybe someone like Tommi can work with a Meeke....
Tanak used to wreck cars like crazy also...

Is it easier for Toyota Gazoo to find some retrospective back pay and a new contract for Lappi than take the risk of having big time rebuilds with Meeke?

[pantealex]

Is it easier for Toyota Gazoo to find some retrospective back pay and a new contract for Lappi than take the risk of having big time rebuilds with Meeke?

Basically yes.
They have money to pay.
But they don´t want/need to pay Lappi more than they are paying to JML (high salory days for JML are currently over)

Also we have to remember that Meeke is not only free agent, almost all WRC17 experienced drivers all available (Breen, Evans, Suninen...)

[Hartusvuori]

There are rumours Meeke has secretly tested the Yaris in the last few weeks/month.

Anyone heard anything else along those lines?

Where this would have happened?

[tomhlord]

Where this would have happened?

I have absolutely no idea or information, but you'd hesitate a guess at Finland near their base?

[Hartusvuori]

I have absolutely no idea or information, but you'd hesitate a guess at Finland near their base?

I can't say I would learn about each and every of their tests in Finland, but I'm quite confident they haven't tested here since Rally Finland. A single one-day test could go under our radar, of course.

[Tarmop]

How does that testing rule affect teams second facility? TMR Estonian operation has an agreement with Tallinn Airport also to do some runs when necessary.

[Franky]

How does that testing rule affect teams second facility? TMR Estonian operation has an agreement with Tallinn Airport also to do some runs when necessary.

Think it doesn't affect at all as that process is called shakedown or sth like that- Just to see that everything works as supposed to before shipping the cars off.

[racerx1979]

I can't say I would learn about each and every of their tests in Finland, but I'm quite confident they haven't tested here since Rally Finland. A single one-day test could go under our radar, of course.

There are testing roads which can easily be closed for a day and nobody but the team would have access so not too difficult. It could have happened in early/late July near Saukkolanek private testing area

[tomhlord]

One thought I've had is in reference to the many predicted, ideal and dream line-ups posted in this thread. What if Citroen only runs two full-time cars, analogous to the 2018 season? Then (hypothetically) they sign Ogier and Lappi, Breen and Ostberg could be swimming for the M-Sport seats.

[EstWRC]

this Meeke testing Toyota secretly makes me laugh

the only driver to have such privileges in the series is Ogier and even he was denied by Hyundai at the end of 2016.

[pantealex]

There are testing roads which can easily be closed for a day and nobody but the team would have access so not too difficult. It could have happened in early/late July near Saukkolanek private testing area

Saukkolantie is not allowed by FIA, if they use it they lose 1 test day.

Jyväskylä is only place where it could have happened. I would say it hasn´t happened with Meeke. Maybe with some other driver(s)...

[pantealex]

this Meeke testing Toyota secretly makes me laugh

the only driver to have such privileges in the series is Ogier and even he was denied by Hyundai at the end of 2016.


Remember that M-Sport forgot to send information towards FIA about their testing in Greece. Teams must tell FIA (was it 2 days or week?) before testing, so secret tests don´t excist.

[T16]

Remember that M-Sport forgot to send information towards FIA about their testing in Greece. Teams must tell FIA (was it 2 days or week?) before testing, so secret tests don´t excist.

When is testing not testing? for example, in F1 they can do as many days / laps in a (two year - I think) older car and it doesn't count. I wonder if Toyota used a 2017 car (yeah, I know the 2017 / 2018 are pretty much the same cars), but would using a year old car mean they could pull it off?

[racerx1979]

There are many loop holes :)

[TypeR]

I have been wondering about testing with current cars. teams are allowed to sell their cars I think, right? If a team sells 17'-18' car to a driver, then I'm sure he can drive his own car in free time(read: test it outside given test days)?
Although it's not a great sportsmanship, but I'm just thinking if it could work that way.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What if Citroen only runs two full-time cars, analogous to the 2018 season? Then (hypothetically) they sign Ogier and Lappi, Breen and Ostberg could be swimming for the M-Sport seats.

I would assume Citroen would have to run a 3-car team next year to convince Ogier that they were fully-committed.

Breen would surely stay and therefore it would be only Østberg looking to return to M-Sport.

[T16]

I would assume Citroen would have to run a 3-car team next year to convince Ogier that they were fully-committed.

Breen would surely stay and therefore it would be only Østberg looking to return to M-Sport.

Breen might just make the lead MSport driver.

[OHL]

Here is what the regulations say about testing. They are quite clear with no loop holes, only things you can do and things you can't do. In the case of an entered manufacturer, if they tried to do a secret test without informing anyone they would be subject to massive penalties. It's just not worth the risk.

66. TESTING
66.1 PERMITTED TESTING SITES FOR MANUFACTURERS REGISTERED IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
For Manufacturers registered in the Championship, testing (as defined in Art. 2.23) is permitted:
66.1.1 On a permanent testing site proposed by the Manufacturer before its first rally of the year and
notified to the FIA.
66.1.2 During a calendar year, a P1 driver may use only one permanent testing site.
66.1.3 In European countries.
66.2 PERMITTED TESTING SITES FOR P1 DRIVERS ENTERED WITH WRC CARS
For drivers entered with WRC cars complying with the 2018 Appendix J, Art. 255A, testing is permitted in
European countries only.
66.3 BANNED TESTING
For Manufacturers registered in the Championship, testing (as defined in Art. 2.23) is banned:
66.3.2 In the country of any World Rally Championship round from the start of reconnaissance until the
end of the rally.
66.3.3 On any road which is used as a special stage of any current Championship rally.
66.4 DURATION
66.4.1 In order to comply with the limitations on testing, Manufacturers are required to complete the
appropriate forms available from the FIA Rally Department at least 5 days before the first day of testing.
66.4.2 In the case of a Manufacturer, a maximum of 55 days in any calendar year. This clause does not
apply to testing as stated in Art. 66.1.1.
66.4.3 A single test day also covers the possibility for 2 or more drivers and/or more than one WRC car
to test on the same test road, only if these drivers are not testing at the same time.
66.4.4 For Manufacturers, 7 additional test days may be allocated to each team in addition to Art. 66.3.2.
These additional days will only be applicable to guest drivers who have not been nominated to score points
up to the requested testing date in the Manufacturers Championship in the previous or current year. Teams
should advise the FIA of any guest drivers’ test, by email, five days in advance, with copy to all other
registered teams (no test form required). The test must comply with articles 66.1 and 66.2.
66.5 TEST RESTRICTIONS FOR DRIVERS WITH WRC CARS WHO ARE NOT ENTERED BY A
MANUFACTURER, P2 AND P3 DRIVERS
Drivers with WRC cars who are not entered by a Manufacturer, P2 and P3 drivers are prohibited from testing
in a country of a Championship round during the three weeks preceding the rally except when a request is
made to the rally organiser concerned. This request must include:
- Exact location (incl. GPS point)
- Start and end date,
- Driver(s) name(s),
- Car(s) chassis number(s).
Any test session is limited to a maximum of 2 days.
The approval must be issued in writing by the rally organiser to the competitor with a copy to the FIA.
66.6 PRESS, MEDIA OR PR FUNCTIONS
Teams organising press, media or PR functions who believe they may be contravening Article 66 herein
must first advise the FIA and the FIA Media delegate.[/QUOTE]

[mknight]

How about another angle on the Meeke testing Toyota rumors.

Why should Toyota offer/let him test?

1. So that he can find out if Toyota is good => nope, clearly it's good when it has most rally and stage wins in the season.
2. So that he can find out if Toyota suits him => while you can find that out in short test you can never test all possible settings or use different diffs etc.

Common background for 1. and 2.: Meeke is in no position to demand a test before signing.

Turning it around, if Toyota wants to "test" Meeke:
3. To find out if Meeke is fast => He has been driving for so long that he has shown he can be fast multiple times. It's keeping it on the road that is a problem, can't test that.
4. To find out how good Meeke is setting up a car => Two things here, a) he has been around for so long that if he is very good or very bad they would know already trough gossip, b) Judging by C3 experience setting up the car for test and for rally is a different thing.

For these reasons I find it quite unlikely there was a test. Only remaining credible option is they would let him test (semi-secret) to put more pressure on Lappi or Latvala to sign.

[N.O.T]

How about another angle on the Meeke testing Toyota rumors.

Why should Toyota offer/let him test?

1. So that he can find out if Toyota is good => nope, clearly it's good when it has most rally and stage wins in the season.
2. So that he can find out if Toyota suits him => while you can find that out in short test you can never test all possible settings or use different diffs etc.

Common background for 1. and 2.: Meeke is in no position to demand a test before signing.

Turning it around, if Toyota wants to "test" Meeke:
3. To find out if Meeke is fast => He has been driving for so long that he has shown he can be fast multiple times. It's keeping it on the road that is a problem, can't test that.
4. To find out how good Meeke is setting up a car => Two things here, a) he has been around for so long that if he is very good or very bad they would know already trough gossip, b) Judging by C3 experience setting up the car for test and for rally is a different thing.

For these reasons I find it quite unlikely there was a test. Only remaining credible option is they would let him test (semi-secret) to put more pressure on Lappi or Latvala to sign.

if you were any more basic than this we would have to water you twice a day...

are you joking ? go back to school kid...

[wrc2017]

how about another angle on the meeke testing toyota rumors.

why should toyota offer/let him test?

1. So that he can find out if toyota is good => nope, clearly it's good when it has most rally and stage wins in the season.
2. So that he can find out if toyota suits him => while you can find that out in short test you can never test all possible settings or use different diffs etc.

Common background for 1. And 2.: Meeke is in no position to demand a test before signing.

Turning it around, if toyota wants to "test" meeke:
3. To find out if meeke is fast => he has been driving for so long that he has shown he can be fast multiple times. It's keeping it on the road that is a problem, can't test that.
4. To find out how good meeke is setting up a car => two things here, a) he has been around for so long that if he is very good or very bad they would know already trough gossip, b) judging by c3 experience setting up the car for test and for rally is a different thing.

For these reasons i find it quite unlikely there was a test. Only remaining credible option is they would let him test (semi-secret) to put more pressure on lappi or latvala to sign.

stfu

[Allez Andruet]

How about another angle on the Meeke testing Toyota rumors.

Why should Toyota offer/let him test?

1. So that he can find out if Toyota is good => nope, clearly it's good when it has most rally and stage wins in the season.
2. So that he can find out if Toyota suits him => while you can find that out in short test you can never test all possible settings or use different diffs etc.

Common background for 1. and 2.: Meeke is in no position to demand a test before signing.

Turning it around, if Toyota wants to "test" Meeke:
3. To find out if Meeke is fast => He has been driving for so long that he has shown he can be fast multiple times. It's keeping it on the road that is a problem, can't test that.
4. To find out how good Meeke is setting up a car => Two things here, a) he has been around for so long that if he is very good or very bad they would know already trough gossip, b) Judging by C3 experience setting up the car for test and for rally is a different thing.

For these reasons I find it quite unlikely there was a test. Only remaining credible option is they would let him test (semi-secret) to put more pressure on Lappi or Latvala to sign.

1649

[AnttiL]

http://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2018/09/26/5bab7c4e268e3ee0258b466d.html

This Spanish article suggests that Ogier's Citroen contract would be announced between Wales and Catalunya. There is again talk of Loeb doing rallies. Sordo is also mentioned, but so is Lappi.

[denkimi]

I have been wondering about testing with current cars. teams are allowed to sell their cars I think, right? If a team sells 17'-18' car to a driver, then I'm sure he can drive his own car in free time(read: test it outside given test days)?
Although it's not a great sportsmanship, but I'm just thinking if it could work that way.
They can also just participate in smaller rally's and use those to test.

[racerx1979]

http://www.marca.com/motor/rallies/2018/09/26/5bab7c4e268e3ee0258b466d.html

This Spanish article suggests that Ogier's Citroen contract would be announced between Wales and Catalunya. There is again talk of Loeb doing rallies. Sordo is also mentioned, but so is Lappi.

Good article basically saying Ogier for sure at Citroen, Lappi very likely based on Veiby breaking Skoda contract and jumping to a C3 R5 (Veiby is also managed by Even so this link could be the sign). Sordo will stay at Hyundai.. Loeb to take part in a few rallies maybe to facilitate Ogier.

So the real question will soon be who takes Lappi's and Ogiers seats. Ostberg should be dusting his 2017 Ford WRC in hopes he can grab a seat at MSport.

[mknight]

The Veiby link is quite weak imo.
Veiby got kicked from Skoda and then uses Citroen which is maybe the best non-Skoda R5 now, VW is an unknown and Fiesta doesn't really need more PR (and he would have to pay) while Citroen might even pay him something or let him drive for free.

His father is manager for more drivers than Lappi.

Doesn't mean Lappi is not going to Citroen, but don't think Veiby driving the R5 is much related.

[Hartusvuori]

The Veiby link is quite weak imo.
Veiby got kicked from Skoda and then uses Citroen which is maybe the best non-Skoda R5 now, VW is an unknown and Fiesta doesn't really need more PR (and he would have to pay) while Citroen might even pay him something or let him drive for free.

His father is manager for more drivers than Lappi.

Doesn't mean Lappi is not going to Citroen, but don't think Veiby driving the R5 is much related.

Veiby has used Printsport's services in the past. Printsport will get Polo R5s among the first.

[AnttiL]

The Veiby link is quite weak imo.
Veiby got kicked from Skoda and then uses Citroen which is maybe the best non-Skoda R5 now, VW is an unknown

VW is still unavailable as well, as regarding to Wales Rally GB. PH-Sport can hire a Citroen C3 R5 for anyone who pays for it.

[pantealex]

Veiby has used Printsport's services in the past. Printsport will get Polo R5s among the first.

I´m pretty sure that EVEN management owns 1 or 2 of those Printsport Skoda´s.

[AnttiL]

https://as.com/motor/2018/09/28/mas_motor/1538131558_494091.html

This announces already Ogier to Citroen for three years confirmed

[GravelBen]

https://as.com/motor/2018/09/28/mas_motor/1538131558_494091.html

This announces already Ogier to Citroen for three years confirmed

But with no sources... it might be true but I'll wait for something official.

[dimviii]

Linda Jackson
‏
Verified account

@LindaJackson

Really exciting news to have you back in the team @SebOgier! Let's make this new chapter with @CitroenRacing as successful as the previous one. Welcome back!

[AnttiL]

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2018/ogier-citroen-2019/page/5764--12-12-.html

Confirmed!

[dimviii]

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2018/ogier-citroen-2019/page/5764--12-12-.html

[KiwiWRCfan]

But with no sources... it might be true but I'll wait for something official.

short wait - about 15 minutes :-)

[JUF]

Great news!

[AnttiL]

Attention now turns to who will feature in M-Sport’s 2019 squad, especially as the loss of Ogier’s Red Bull financial backing will hit Wilson hard.

Teemu Suninen is believed to be lined up for a full programme after a strong campaign but Elfyn Evans’ position is less clear. A disappointing year has yielded just one podium in Portugal and the Welshman hopes for a strong end to the season to cement his return.


https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2018/ford-ogier-reaction/page/5765--12-12-.html

[mknight]

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2018/ogier-citroen-2019/page/5764--12-12-.html

Confirmed!

Very good, we have 3 confirmed teams with drivers that can fight for championship and we keep Citroën in.

The official news doesn't say how many years though, there were rumors about both 2 and 3.

Now lets see what this dies to the rest of the drivers market, most notably the Lappi situation.

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139006/msport-wont-rush-future-decision-after-ogier-exit


"There are various negotiations going on, but we'll see - we're not in a great hurry.

"We've got Teemu [Suninen] under contract for next year."

[N.O.T]

Nice to see Ogier back at citroen to close his career as the second most successful rally driver in history.

[N.O.T]

Linda Jackson
‏
Verified account

@LindaJackson

Really exciting news to have you back in the team @SebOgier! Let's make this new chapter with @CitroenRacing as successful as the previous one. Welcome back!

can't agree more... Ogier back at citroen so he can lose more titles to better drivers like he did before when he was there...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Autosport:
"Ogier's move back to Citroen had been expected as it became increasingly clear that Ford's level of manufacturer backing and financial input to M-Sport was not sufficient to keep him in a Fiesta WRC for a third season."

Disappointing if this is true.

[Tarmop]

Both Wilson and Ogier said this a few rallys back, so what is there not to believe. Otherwise another typical D. Evans' article, based on his own thoughts and what is obvious.

[EstWRC]

The worst hidden secret finally out!

Great news but at the same time feeling sad for m-sport.


I guess lappi stays in Toyota then ?

[dimviii]

I just dreamed an asphalt rally,with c3 driven by Loeb,Ogier and Meeke.
To make the dream better,Boudar saying that who will be first at the end of day 2,will be the choosen for the championship.

[AnttiL]

I guess lappi stays in Toyota then ?

I don't think it's decided yet.

[EstWRC]

I don't think it's decided yet.

Well, makes sense. Estonians and Finns are very slow deciding

[T16]

The most interesting line today isn't the obvious Ogier to Citroen deal, it's the Meeke edging towards Toyota bit that interests me. I get that he made a bad job of it with Citroen, but I think any true rally fan would like to see him fighting for wins amongst the other top drivers. And just maybe the Toyota allows him to drive without throwing it up the road all the time.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139006/msport-considering-options-after-ogier-exit

[tomhlord]

Both Wilson and Ogier said this a few rallys back, so what is there not to believe. Otherwise another typical D. Evans' article, based on his own thoughts and what is obvious.

He was the first to say this move would happen in authoritative fashion, which then helps make it 'obvious' later down the line.

His interview with Wilson also ties down Suninen too.

[tomhlord]

When the roulette table stops spinning, it's M-Sport that loses out. Sadly.

[Hartusvuori]

I don't think it's decided yet.

I think it's decided. My vote goes for him leaving TGR.

[Tarmop]

He was the first to say this move would happen in authoritative fashion, which then helps make it 'obvious' later down the line.

His interview with Wilson also ties down Suninen too.

It was obvious when both Wilson and Ogier said that the expected more and faster...in July. Add to that Germany for instance, when Ogier said after every stage end, how he`d like to be in the Yaris...and not only on that rally.

[RS]

The most interesting line today isn't the obvious Ogier to Citroen deal, it's the Meeke edging towards Toyota bit that interests me. I get that he made a bad job of it with Citroen, but I think any true rally fan would like to see him fighting for wins amongst the other top drivers. And just maybe the Toyota allows him to drive without throwing it up the road all the time.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/139006/msport-considering-options-after-ogier-exit

Much as he has his faults, and if we are to presume Latvala is stating at Toyota, then Meeke is the only driver available who is a proven multiple rally winner. I'd say MSport need that more than Toyota.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

When the roulette table stops spinning, it's M-Sport that loses out. Sadly.

Ford didnt place a bet despite having the best odds. :(

[tomhlord]

It was obvious when both Wilson and Ogier said that the expected more and faster...in July. Add to that Germany for instance, when Ogier said after every stage end, how he`d like to be in the Yaris...and not only on that rally.

Aha, right, sorry, you seem to have known the 2019 lineups since July. Silly me.

[Tauri_J]

Much as he has his faults, and if we are to presume Latvala is stating at Toyota, then Meeke is the only driver available who is a proven multiple rally winner. I'd say MSport need that more than Toyota.

Lol, Meeke definetily wont end up in M-Sport.

[Simmi]

Anyone else a bit worried for Breen next year?

I'm pretty convinced Lappi is off to Citroen. And if they want to continue their current set up with Mads + a bit of cash in the third car then that could leave him in a tricky position. Maybe. And that's before you take Al Qassimi into account.

The Red Bull/Abu Dhabi backing and how that will work is an interesting subplot too.

[AndyRAC]

The Red Bull/Abu Dhabi backing and how that will work is an interesting subplot too.

Wasn't that thought to be a stumbling block last year? Both were incompatible.....time will tell if that's no longer the case.

[tomhlord]

Wasn't that thought to be a stumbling block last year? Both were incompatible.....time will tell if that's no longer the case.

I hope the Abu Dhabi backing ends up at M-Sport. That's the dream.

[er88]

I think Breen will be the 3rd driver alongside Seb and Lappi. He's been with the group for years and binning him off now, just as the team is rebuilding and has signed a multiple world champion, isn't maybe the best idea.

He's still got potential and deserves a full season IMO. Unless Mads can bring a lot of budget I don't see Citroen choosing him over Breen, as with the extra red bull backing Citroen will be pretty sound financially anyway. They mean business again.

But if Breen doesn't get a new contract with Citroen, I can still see him being an option for Msport. I'd actually take Breen over Evans, and they could have Pontus, Suninen and Breen. Quite an exciting line-up still.

Paddon should be on the phone to Malcolm too, because if he accepts another half season at Hyundai things don't look great for his future. A full season with Msport would be a lot more beneficial for his career.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Wonder who decided the timing of the Ogier news ? It's not very good for M-Sport just before their home rally...

[Andre Oliveira]

Lets see, if annouces Meeke before...

[er88]

Wonder who decided the timing of the Ogier news ? It's not very good for M-Sport just before their home rally...Why? It stops it becoming a sideshow while there's championships still to be won. Everyone pretty much knew Seb was going back to Citroen anyway, unless you were living in cloud-cuckoo-land.

[mknight]

If Lappi goes Citroën maybe Breen will have to share car with Østberg, or ideally Breen drives 3rd car and Østberg pays for some rallies himself. I don't really care about Østberg he has had his fair share of chances and he can always drive (paying) a few rallies with Fiesta. At the same time Breen has had terrible season since his 2nd place in Sweden, so it's not looking good for him.

[T16]

Wonder who decided the timing of the Ogier news ? It's not very good for M-Sport just before their home rally...

What difference do you think it will make to M-Sport whether it's before or after their home rally?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Just thinking with the fans having their no.1 driver performing here but now knowing he's definitely heading elsewhere. The support for Ogier may be a bit muted.

[racerx1979]

I think it's decided. My vote goes for him leaving TGR.

Lappi news to follow shortly :)

[Ucci]

https://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2018/ogier-citroen-2019/page/5764--12-12-.html

Confirmed!
Welcome back, champ!

[Andre Oliveira]

Lappi in, Breen out

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DoMbo5LWkAEAomX?format=jpg&name=medium

[Tarmop]

Or go all in with a third car?

[Simmi]

As expected, that is Elena saying he and Seb are done at WRC level

"For us, bye bye the WRC. The number 9 remains our lucky charm."


Btw Elena has deleted that post and reposted without the reference to Lappi.

[Tarmop]

I wouldn`t be surprised, if they waved bye a few years ago, but when the circumstances are right, who knows...:D

[Andre Oliveira]

I am sure. Breen out.

[AnttiL]

Lappi contract would have been overshadowed by Ogier had it been announced today. More media exposure to do it later.

[mknight]

I am sure. Breen out.

Well if that's true I feel sorry for him. Hopefully he could drive at Msport, but Malcolm is extremely cynical when it comes to drivers and money.

For Toyota Meeke or Sordo sound most likely. Sordo if they want "safe" championship, Meeke if they want maximum PR and are willing to risk. Cant really see Tidemand there.

[Tarmop]

If Abu Dhabi doesn`t go back to Ford, especially after RB moves back to Citroen.

[EstWRC]

Breen to Toyota please. Perfect

[deephouse]

as with the extra red bull backing Citroen will be pretty sound financially anyway. They mean business again.

Sounds like Abu Dhabi was only the name with no money put in it.

[dimviii]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180928/46583d7c7b3432a33569c6a23dbb61d8.jpg

[RS]

I am sure. Breen out.

And Ostberg?

[er88]

Only way Breen is overlooked for Ostberg is if Mads is bringing a lot of budget again to pay for the 3rd car.

I can't see Citroen running just a two car team, if they're pushing the boat out for Lappi and Seb they'll surely be targeting both championships. So 3cars are the way to go.

[Tarmop]

I also think that for a manuf. the manuf. championship is equally, if not more important.

[Essaj]

What about Skoda drivers? Rovanperä is confirmed but what happens to Tidemand, Kopecky, Nordgren?

[Tarmop]

Škoda promised some news soon, probably lineup will be included?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Btw, where does the Citroen money suddenly come from to pay Ogier, maybe Lappi and probably a 3rd car ? Red Bull is some but it will take more than that.

They didnt have the money for proper WRC testing not so long ago and the Meeke sacking was said to be partly money-saving on shells... strange turnaround.

[er88]

Toyota; Tanak, Meeke, JML

Hyundai; Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo/Paddon

Citroen; Ogier, Lappi, Ostberg


That's what it's starting to look like for 3 teams, with M-sport an unknown. If I was Malcolm I'd get Tidemand in one of the Fiesta's for the full season along with Suninen. Don't think Evans has done enough or shown enough potential speed, but he could stay or get replaced by Breen/Paddon. I'd take both over Evans tbh, but guess it'll all come down to money.

MSport Ford; Tidemand, Suninen, Breen/Evans/Paddon?

[mknight]

Find it hard to believe that Tidemand will go MSport. Malcolm is in love with paying drivers and Tidemands management is all against it. Yet he is not proven in WRC to demand much.

[racerx1979]

Ford would want Ostberg just as much as Citroen considering Malcom likes drivers with some funding. Would make sense for Ostberg to head to Ford and Breen stay at Citroen. I hear Citroen is okay with 2 drivers for 2018 and a rotation of drivers for the third car. I have no idea if Abu Dhabi is out or if Red Bull will no longer sponsor Ogier... This was an issue at one point.

Ford = Suninen, Ostberg and Evans
Citroen = Ogier, Lappi and rotation of drivers.

My friend at TGR just told me "what if JML went to Ford" but I think he's just pulling my leg.

[er88]

Ford would want Ostberg just as much as Citroen considering Malcom likes drivers with some funding. Would make sense for Ostberg to head to Ford and Breen stay at Citroen. I hear Citroen is okay with 2 drivers for 2018 and a rotation of drivers for the third car. I have no idea if Abu Dhabi is out or if Red Bull will no longer sponsor Ogier... This was an issue at one point.

Ford = Suninen, Ostberg and Evans
Citroen = Ogier, Lappi and rotation of drivers.

My friend at TGR just told me "what if JML went to Ford" but I think he's just pulling my leg.Yeah but Ostberg doesn't want Msport and Malcolm's cars. He wants Citroen and only if they don't want his budget, will he revert back to Msport.

[Essaj]

For me the logical step for JML would be M-sport. then Toyota would be open for Breen, ostberg, sordo or paddon with a 1 year contract + someone like tidemand. Then they could get Rovanperä or Huttunen for 2020 or some other rising star to be sweet.

[racerx1979]

Yeah but Ostberg doesn't want Msport and Malcolm's cars. He wants Citroen and only if they don't want his budget, will he revert back to Msport.

I'm sure Ostberg just wants a paid drive no matter who it is.. lol.

[er88]

I'm sure Ostberg just wants a paid drive no matter who it is.. lol.True, but he isn't going to get that anywhere ;)

[GravelBen]

For me the logical step for JML would be M-sport. then Toyota would be open for Breen, ostberg, sordo or paddon with a 1 year contract + someone like tidemand. Then they could get Rovanperä or Huttunen for 2020 or some other rising star to be sweet.

I don't know why Latvala would want to leave Toyota for a probably slower car with less development funding though? (assuming Toyota still want him, which seems likely at this stage).

It would be a big risk to take only for what, undisputed team No.1 status? I don't think he's that much of an egotist.

[Tom206wrc]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180928/46583d7c7b3432a33569c6a23dbb61d8.jpg


And finally why not Latvala as 2nd driver in Citroën :confused:

[AnttiL]

And finally why not Latvala as 2nd driver in Citroën :confused:

With all the rumors of Lappi negotiating with Citroen...how would you suddenly think of that?

[jonkka]

And finally why not Latvala as 2nd driver in Citroën :confused:

Simply because being second driver to a French driver in a French team maybe is not an ideal situation?

[dimviii]

Simply because being second driver to a French driver in a French team maybe is not an ideal situation?

now he is at a Fin team ,with Estonian driver and is not ideal too.

[deephouse]

And finally why not Latvala as 2nd driver in Citroën :confused:

He have that job at the Volkswagen, always shadow. He doesn't need that.

[Tarmop]

For me the logical step for JML would be M-sport. then Toyota would be open for Breen, ostberg, sordo or paddon with a 1 year contract + someone like tidemand. Then they could get Rovanperä or Huttunen for 2020 or some other rising star to be sweet.

There is nothing logical about it, they are there for the manuf. title so if they hire a rookie, their 2. driver has to be better than medium.