Hyundai WRT

[AnttiL]

Also where should you draw the line then, you could exclude nearly all local competitors for Rally Portugal...

WRC P1 drivers?

[tommeke_B]

WRC P1 drivers?

So if they want to make a system like this, it's up to the organizers to put it in supplementary regulations (they're not published yet for Portugal), or up to FIA, to make a list of 'forbidden' events for P1 drivers. I think, at the moment, no rule is broken.

[Googol]

Events are not forbidden. Roads are.

[AnttiL]

What the FIA Sporting regulations say


RECONNAISSANCE
The presence on a special stage in any way whatsoever of an FIA priority driver and/or co-driver at any time or of any non-priority crew member intending to enter a rally after the announcement of the itinerary.


RESTRICTION OF RECONNAISSANCE
Any driver, or his co-driver, who is, or who in the last two years has been a P1 priority driver, who has entered
or intends to enter a WRC rally and who wishes to drive on any road which is used as a special stage in that
rally, may only do so after he has obtained the organiser's written permission. This shall not apply when the
person is known to live in the area. The written permission must then be sent to the FIA. Failure to respect
this rule shall result in the driver being reported to the Stewards.

[AL14]

I think there is a time before the rally where that road is forbidden and considering Portugal will be in late may (I guess) I think Dani can drive wherever he wants in Portugal.
If I remember well Ogier went to Fafe rally sprint 6-7 month before they moved rally portugal back to Fafe area and had Fafe as Power Stage.

EDIT: I only read now Anttil quotes of the rules. The announcement of the itinerary is the moment after which you can't go in those roads. So it will explain eventually the Ogier's case.

[Rallyper]

And Itinerary for Portugal will wait, nothing else to expect.

[wwbroe]

And Itinerary for Portugal will wait, nothing else to expect.

I think the itinary for Rally Portugal is allready on their website.

[Rallyper]

I think the itinary for Rally Portugal is allready on their website.

Ok, so no Sordo in Fafe then...

[mknight]

It's just a rule question imo. At the time of (endless) onboard watching there is no real gain in that. Specially when the event was run many times before and he will do the other one in R5.

[AnttiL]

If I remember well Ogier went to Fafe rally sprint 6-7 month before they moved rally portugal back to Fafe area and had Fafe as Power Stage.



Last Fafe Rallysprint was in March 2014. Rally Portugal returned to North in May 2015. Over a year in between

[racerx1979]

Sorry if this has already been posted, but does anyone know if Loeb is doing Sardinia?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141819/hyundai-defends-dropping-mikkelsen-for-corsica

[mknight]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/141819/hyundai-defends-dropping-mikkelsen-for-corsica

Well his statement is 100% right. On paper, based on recent tarmac results Neuville, Loeb and Sordo are the best choices.

Only argument that could be made is that in Monte Loeb and Mikkelsen had same speed. But Monte s not typical tarmac rally and Loeb came there straight from Dakar. So in Corsica Loeb is a "risky" choice while Sordo is backup.

The interesting part is that the article indirectly says they wont have any new upgrades for Corsica. That's one extra reason not to run Mikkelsen, since he struggles with the tarmac car as is and I don't think trying to change driving style is likely to help much. On the other hand it doesn't bode well for their chances on scoring good points.

-------------------------

On a small sidenote this is another David Evans article with factual errors. Which is something that happens in just about every third article he writes. Here he writes Mikkelsen is still waiting for his first podium with Hyundai. Maybe he wanted to write "this year", but the way it's written it's wrong. Sloppy work for a guy that has this as his main job

[AnttiL]

Neuville, Mikkelsen and Sordo confirmed for Argentina.

http://www.rallyargentina.com/hyundai-confirmo-a-neuville-mikkelsen-y-sordo-para-el-xion-rally-argentina-2019

Speculation: they all do Chile as well as they are paired events? Then Loeb steps in for Sordo for Portugal and Sardegna, another pair (plus Sordo already rallied at Fafe)?

[rallyfiend]

Neuville, Mikkelsen and Sordo confirmed for Argentina.

http://www.rallyargentina.com/hyundai-confirmo-a-neuville-mikkelsen-y-sordo-para-el-xion-rally-argentina-2019

Speculation: they all do Chile as well as they are paired events? Then Loeb steps in for Sordo for Portugal and Sardegna, another pair (plus Sordo already rallied at Fafe)?

The chassis and key components are paired. I don't think the drivers are.

Chassis and parts are linked to the team, rather than the driver, no?

[AnttiL]

Well, key parts like diffs can be very personally set up by the drivers. But speculation...

Other news: updates coming for Finland https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/142103/hyundai-planning-upgrade-to-fight-wrc-rivals

[EstWRC]

hmmmm, isnt it late? dont they usually have some kind of bigger update around Mexico and then second in the second part of the season?

Like Toyota last year, big update for Argentina and then for Finland.

[tomhlord]

"The development for the July homologation and the development for next year’s car. That’s what I’m working on.”

The current i20 will be six-years-old in 2020 - I suspect the WRC team will have an all-new model introduced sometime next season.

[mknight]

hmmmm, isnt it late? dont they usually have some kind of bigger update around Mexico and then second in the second part of the season?

Like Toyota last year, big update for Argentina and then for Finland.


Depends on how you look at it, remember they introduced new engine at end of 2018/beginning of 2019 and both in 2017 and 2018 they were very good on the events that make up the first half of the season and then quite bad in the second half.

For 2019:

- It means Corsica is a write-off and they will likely be around 4-6 place on pure speed, doesn't mean they can't get a decent result if other cars hit issues or weather plays a role (like Germany last year where Neuville ended 2nd while being 4th-5th based on speed).

- Argentina wasn't very good last year, but the engine might help
- Chile is an unknown, but it looks like mid-speed gravel rally so should be okish
- in Portugal and Sardinia they were probably the fastest car last year and looking at Turkey it might not have changed that much

- Finland has always been a disaster so they need all the upgrades they can get, same with Germany and Spain based on last years performance

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai clearly missed their best chances in 2017 & 2018 when their car was one of the fastest.

By the time they get the car upgraded the 2019 Championships will probably be gone...

[BigWorm]

Hyundai clearly missed their best chances in 2017 & 2018 when their car was one of the fastest.

By the time they get the car upgraded the 2019 Championships will probably be gone...

By the sound of things upgrades are coming soon to Hyundai (first half of the season). Just like Tänak after Sardinia last year, you can't write them off yet.

[denkimi]

Hyundai clearly missed their best chances in 2017 & 2018 when their car was one of the fastest.

By the time they get the car upgraded the 2019 Championships will probably be gone...
I would say their car was only the fastest in the first half of 2017. In the second half they seemed all pretty equally, but citroen and toyota did not have a good leading driver.

By the end of 2018, the hyundai was perhaps the slowest car. Or at least it looked like that to me.

[Allez Andruet]

I would say their car was only the fastest in the first half of 2017. In the second half they seemed all pretty equally, but citroen and toyota did not have a good leading driver.

In 2017 JML would have been right in the mix had the Yaris not let him down in Poland and Finland. So that year it was the car, not the driver.

[denkimi]

In 2017 JML would have been right in the mix had the Yaris not let him down in Poland and Finland. So that year it was the car, not the driver.

yes it was. to me i looks that the toyota was just as fast back then as it is today. if ogier had been in that car he probably would have been champion too, but with more points and more wins.

[steve.mandzij]

yes it was. to me i looks that the toyota was just as fast back then as it is today. if ogier had been in that car he probably would have been champion too, but with more points and more wins.Latvala missed out on at least 15 points in Poland, 25 points in Finland and had the chance of at least 10 points in Germany when he was forced to retire. Don't forget he led the championship that year and was a firm title contender. His only mistakes all year were the roll in Portugal and the PS in Australia.

The Yaris had, likely, the best engine that year, and was very quick on fast roads, but while it was durable despite it's electrical Gremlins it was a little heavy.

[er88]

Lost track a little bit, but has there been any confirmed news about who's doing Portugal/Sardinia yet out of Loeb and Sordo?

[AnttiL]

Lost track a little bit, but has there been any confirmed news about who's doing Portugal/Sardinia yet out of Loeb and Sordo?

Sordo does both.

[Tarmop]

14-16.06 Loeb is doing a France local event in the i20 WRC, same weekend when others are in Sardegna.

[er88]

Sordo does both.Bit of a shame Loeb won't do either (but I've got nothing against Sordo though)

[tommeke_B]

After what we've seen from him in Chile, I hope Loeb's going to do Finland, with a lot of pre-event testing... :)

[er88]

Take it with a huge pinch of salt as this is from Colin Clark's kitchen table and is just rumours, but he says there's been whispers that Hyundai need to land a title this year or they'll pull the plug on the WRC.

Seems a bit extreme, but maybe Hyundai finally want something for their efforts and expenditure. Clark saying that if the pressure is that big (or near enough), he wouldn't be surprised to see Loeb get more gravel rallies after his performance in Chile, and Mikkelsen's terrible one. Adamo isn't going to shy away from big decisions

[Katvala]

Of course they are very eager to win, especially after all this time and coming close many times.
And I wouldn't be surprised at all for Mikkelsen to get less rallies. He's been delivering way below expectations. In 17/18 he was talking about that he wanted to fight for the title, and that he was targeting it in 18 (in Norwegian media). But his results are way off. I thought maybe second in Argentina would be a turning point, but Chile wasn't exactly a good one.

He's not finding his comfort in the car, perhaps his last chance is to aim for a seat in a different team

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Take it with a huge pinch of salt as this is from Colin Clark's kitchen table and is just rumours, but he says there's been whispers that Hyundai need to land a title this year or they'll pull the plug on the WRC.

Seems a bit extreme, but maybe Hyundai finally want something for their efforts and expenditure. Clark saying that if the pressure is that big (or near enough), he wouldn't be surprised to see Loeb get more gravel rallies after his performance in Chile, and Mikkelsen's terrible one. Adamo isn't going to shy away from big decisions

They have gotten serious this season with Adamo taking charge and also signing Seb Loeb. If they do fail again it would be hard to see what more they could do in the future assuming Tanak and Ogier arent available.

[denkimi]

They have gotten serious this season with Adamo taking charge and also signing Seb Loeb. If they do fail again it would be hard to see what more they could do in the future assuming Tanak and Ogier arent available.
well it's their own fault for being arrogant and not signing ogier when he was available. they would have won 2 drivers and 2 constructors championships, and they would almost certain win the constructors again this year and have a 2/3 chance on the drivers title.

[mknight]

Nandan signed Loeb not Adamo. Following his belief that when multiple drivers struggle trough 2017-2018 (Sordo, Paddon, Mikkelsen), it's best to get yet another driver.

CC also said that Loeb can now fight for win in any rally. That's extremely bold claim when he did ok in Monte and very good in Chile but had weak Sweden and terrible Corsica.

Therefore I very much doubt they would put him instead of Mikkelsen on rallies where Mikkelsen had good pace last year. That's all remaining gravel rallies except Finland. But for Finland it looks set for Mikkelsen and likely Hutunen, based on the starts in the other rallies for the 3 of them.

Much more likely that Loeb drives beside Mikkelsen and Neuville on some rallies that Paddon did last year and Sordo is not good at. GB clear candidate.

Tarmac rallies are much more unsure for both Mikkelsen and Loeb though.
As I wrote before the changes for Corsica were actually done because Loeb underperformed (relative to expectations) in Monte and Sweden. Sordo was taken in to secure some sure points as Loeb was uncertain (and you have to let Loeb run his first normal tarmac rally) .
Looking at results it clearly was a good choice.
So now for Germany Adamo has a choice between unsure Mikkelsen (based on dry tarmac last year), unsure Loeb (based on Corsica) and unsure Sordo (crashing out in Germany last two years). Not easy pick, but looks like Loeb is in based on doing the two tarmac rallies. For Spain it looks more clear with Sordo-Loeb likely if Loeb wants.

The rumor about needing some title is possible. Good that all 3 Hyundai drivers (without Neuville) score better manu points than both Toyota 2/3rd drivers.

[steve.mandzij]

Nandan signed Loeb not Adamo. Following his belief that when multiple drivers struggle trough 2017-2018 (Sordo, Paddon, Mikkelsen), it's best to get yet another driver.

CC also said that Loeb can now fight for win in any rally. That's extremely bold claim when he did ok in Monte and very good in Chile but had weak Sweden and terrible Corsica.

Therefore I very much doubt they would put him instead of Mikkelsen on rallies where Mikkelsen had good pace last year. That's all remaining gravel rallies except Finland. But for Finland it looks set for Mikkelsen and likely Hutunen, based on the starts in the other rallies for the 3 of them.

Much more likely that Loeb drives beside Mikkelsen and Neuville on some rallies that Paddon did last year and Sordo is not good at. GB clear candidate.

Tarmac rallies are much more unsure for both Mikkelsen and Loeb though.
As I wrote before the changes for Corsica were actually done because Loeb underperformed (relative to expectations) in Monte and Sweden. Sordo was taken in to secure some sure points as Loeb was uncertain (and you have to let Loeb run his first normal tarmac rally) .
Looking at results it clearly was a good choice.
So now for Germany Adamo has a choice between unsure Mikkelsen (based on dry tarmac last year), unsure Loeb (based on Corsica) and unsure Sordo (crashing out in Germany last two years). Not easy pick, but looks like Loeb is in based on doing the two tarmac rallies. For Spain it looks more clear with Sordo-Loeb likely if Loeb wants.

The rumor about needing some title is possible. Good that all 3 Hyundai drivers (without Neuville) score better manu points than both Toyota 2/3rd drivers.I wouldn't be so quick to write off Loeb for more rally wins. During Chile he was very, very quick and claimed to have finally clicked with the car, a statement that from Loeb is extremely ominous.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesing read from Nicolas Gilsoul on Rally Chile, the crash and testing for Portugal:

https://nicolasgilsoul.be/debriefing-chili/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

well it's their own fault for being arrogant and not signing ogier when he was available. they would have won 2 drivers and 2 constructors championships, and they would almost certain win the constructors again this year and have a 2/3 chance on the drivers title.

I dont know how you work that out. Loeb had/is retired from full-time rallying, didnt want to do full seasons anymore and was happy doing WRX.

[USER47]

Plus I don't think it would be very good for a team dynamic to have Ogier and Neuville in the same team. They are clearly both good enough to be leading drivers, and they know that. None of them would be content with playing a team game if it came to it.

[Allez Andruet]

Just unleash Huttunen and there's nothing to worry about.

[Lead]

If Mikkelsen wants to keep his WRC career going, he needs to get out of this team fast and already start looking for a new contract (maybe Ford?). He had a plenty of time to adapt, tests, work on car settings or whatever. Its clear he and Hyundai doesnt match so thats that. And in process a co-driver change for him wouldnt mind also. Chile was a great example they both doesnt work as a team.

[T16]

I dont know how you work that out. Loeb had/is retired from full-time rallying, didnt want to do full seasons anymore and was happy doing WRX.

Denkimi isn't talking about Loeb Eddie, rather Ogier.

[Katvala]

If Mikkelsen wants to keep his WRC career going, he needs to get out of this team fast and already start looking for a new contract (maybe Ford?). He had a plenty of time to adapt, tests, work on car settings or whatever. Its clear he and Hyundai doesnt match so thats that. And in process a co-driver change for him wouldnt mind also. Chile was a great example they both doesnt work as a team.Can you elaborate or perhaps link something about how Andreas and Anders isn't a good match? Not heard anything about that and didn't notice anything in perticular in Chile

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

In Chile Mikkelsen said he had written too optimisic notes and after the two moments (Friday afternoon and Saturday end of first stage) he stopped trusting them.

Guess that's what he meant. I'd say that's basically drivers fault and not co-drivers.

Anyway I agree that he should try to change teams no matter what happens rest of season. Driving part time and risking getting dropped every single rally is not something to long for.
I see Citroen (extra car) as most likely. MSport not so sure. Wilson definitely aims for Tänak and if he gets him he doesn't need Mikkelsen (Evans works ok as 2nd driver atm). If he doesn't he might just stay in money making mode instead of using money on Mikkelsen, (which doesn't guarantee a shot at either title) . Toyota is also possible depending what happens with those 2, but Makinen picked Latvala over him at end of 2017, even with worse results. Might be Toyota boses could have a say if Toyota doesn't do that well this season.

[wia5958]

And y would they want him now exactly? Cant c toyota pulling strings to replace a driver struggling with another thats struggling as much

[Allez Andruet]

Toyota is also possible depending what happens with those 2, but Makinen picked Latvala over him at end of 2017, even with worse results. Might be Toyota boses could have a say if Toyota doesn't do that well this season.

They sure have a say, but just as sure that won't be in favor of Mikkelsen. Whether you root for him or not, his 2019 (what we've seen so far) won't earn him a seat anywhere in 2020 without a substantial funding.

[mknight]

They sure have a say, but just as sure that won't be in favor of Mikkelsen. Whether you root for him or not, his 2019 (what we've seen so far) won't earn him a seat anywhere in 2020 without a substantial funding.

Compare his 2019 with Latvala, Lappi, Suninen and Meeke (in about that order) all have as bad or worse season. 3 of these are even behind him in points after driving one more rally. Mikkelsen has highest manu point score per rally of all these as well as Loeb and Sordo.

Just looking at the Toyota drivers driving arguably the fastest car (in Tanak's hands):

Latvala best result 5th place, completely out of pace on Corsica, blaming notes (like Mikkelsen did in Chile). Note that Latvala has now 201 WRC starts, Mikkelsen has 105.

Meeke best one 4th place, out of pace in Sweden. 4 rallies in a row with crashes (small or big) that cost him better result. 95 starts btw.

----------

To answer your point, as I wrote I don't think it's likely that Toyota will be interested. But Mikkelsen suddenly becoming the worst driver there is that nobody would hire is a bit too much of a step.

[racerx1979]

Well I don't think Adamo is worried about Latvala or Meeke... He's working with what they have and they have Loeb

[TRW]

In today's WRC cars you just cant take a young talented guy (As Greensmith) and wait for good results from the beginning. Today's cars and rallyes need so much more know-how than ever, it really takes at least one year to learn.
Problem as I see, is that after every season slowest guy or two drops. It has been like this for a long time, but the difference is that there is no-one who can replace them.
IMO Lappi, Suninen and Tidemand are good examples. They were superfast in WRC2 but right when the new-era WRC cars came the gap between those two machines are too damn big.
Maybe it's good, it differences the men from the boys. But maybe we will never see such amount of WRC drivers (part program also) as we did in early 2000's.
In conclusion I think that if someone had to be dropped, in this moment Mikkelsen is the guy.

[wia5958]

Compare his 2019 with Latvala, Lappi, Suninen and Meeke (in about that order) all have as bad or worse season. 3 of these are even behind him in points after driving one more rally. Mikkelsen has highest manu point score per rally of all these as well as Loeb and Sordo.

Just looking at the Toyota drivers driving arguably the fastest car (in Tanak's hands):

Latvala best result 5th place, completely out of pace on Corsica, blaming notes (like Mikkelsen did in Chile). Note that Latvala has now 201 WRC starts, Mikkelsen has 105.

Meeke best one 4th place, out of pace in Sweden. 4 rallies in a row with crashes (small or big) that cost him better result. 95 starts btw.

----------

To answer your point, as I wrote I don't think it's likely that Toyota will be interested. But Mikkelsen suddenly becoming the worst driver there is that nobody would hire is a bit too much of a step.

And has scored less points overall than loeb who has started an event less. Mikkleson has failed to score points on 2 of his 5 starts which again is poor. Loeb has brought points in every rally started.

[wrc2017]

Meeke has been unfortunate with puctures, not all of his making, one minor incident, and has been fast on every rally, 4th in championship, and only driver to have finished all rallies this season, and able to mix it consistently with top 3.

He shouldnt be compared with Mikkelson in any shape or form.

[deephouse]

Agree with that. The thing is Meeke is driving in Toyota much better than he was at Citroen (despite 5 wins and much more crashes). Why Mikkelsen wouldn't find pace somewhere else. If he can't get along with the car, he could maybe try in other teams. But he there are 3 guys who is as fast as him sitting out there somewhere. Ooops one more who have experience. Hanninen could be the guy. So there is plenty guys who can challenge for 4,5,6th places maybe ocassionaly 3rd ,2nd or even win.

[pantealex]

In today's WRC cars you just cant take a young talented guy (As Greensmith) and wait for good results from the beginning. Today's cars and rallyes need so much more know-how than ever, it really takes at least one year to learn.
Problem as I see, is that after every season slowest guy or two drops. It has been like this for a long time, but the difference is that there is no-one who can replace them.
IMO Lappi, Suninen and Tidemand are good examples. They were superfast in WRC2 but right when the new-era WRC cars came the gap between those two machines are too damn big.
Maybe it's good, it differences the men from the boys. But maybe we will never see such amount of WRC drivers (part program also) as we did in early 2000's.
In conclusion I think that if someone had to be dropped, in this moment Mikkelsen is the guy.

Well, Lappi did win Rally Finland in his 1st WRC attempt and it´s not the easiest event.
Otherwise I agree.

[AnttiL]

Well, Lappi did win Rally Finland in his 1st WRC attempt and it´s not the easiest event.
Otherwise I agree.

Also won the power stage on his second event in SardegnA. Suninen won the fifth ever stage he did in a WRC car, in Poland

[Sulland]

Andreas or even management: Give Malcolm a ring!

[Allez Andruet]

Andreas or even management: Give Malcolm a ring!

Atleast in the past Even hasn't been too keen on paying for a drive.

[AnttiL]

Atleast in the past Even hasn't been too keen on paying for a drive.

Yep, that’s why Pontus left Even Management

[mknight]

And has scored less points overall than loeb who has started an event less. Mikkleson has failed to score points on 2 of his 5 starts which again is poor. Loeb has brought points in every rally started.

Loeb has brought points for himself in every rally he started. Manu points are something different.

For drivers that don't drive whole season team bosses likely want these things:
- manu points (measurable)
- taking points from driver title rivals (measurable)
- putting pressure on rivals (hard to measure, Loeb certainly does put psychic pressure on Ogier, but when he ends behind him in Chile it didn't have an effect in the end)
- publicity (also hard to measure, but Loeb wins that one for sure, from other drivers Meeke does get much more publicity than anyone else because of WRC crew)

Measurable things:

Manu points:
Sordo, took points in 2 out of 3 starts (66%), 6.67 points/rally
Loeb, took points in 2 out of 4 starts (50%), 6.75 points/rally
Mikkelsen, points in 3 out of 5 starts (60%), 7.2 points/rally

So at Hyundai Mikkelsen>Loeb>Sordo
(Sordo retirement due to technical issue in Mexico wasn't his fault though so it's a bit unfair to him)

Comparison with some of the other mentioned drivers is like this:
Latvala 3.33 points/rally
Lappi 6.33 but only out of 2 cars
Meeke 6.33
Suninen 6.0 out of 2 cars).

Mikkelsen>Loeb>Sordo > Meeke/Lappi > Suninen > Latvala
(the top 3 + Evans are ahead of everyone)

Taking points from other driver title challengers:
Sordo, 1 (Mexico Tanak PS ) + 2 (Cors place Tanak), + 3 (Arg Tanak place and PS) = 6 total, 2 /rally
Loeb 0 total, 0 per rally
Mikkelsen 5 total (Argentina Ogier place and Tanak place), 1/rally

Sordo>Mikkelsen>Loeb

Other drivers (counting 0 when they take points off own n1 at the same time), didn't do negative points when they actually help rivals (Meeke helped Ogier for 1 more point in Mexico). There might be an error of +- 1-2 points here somewhere:

Latvala 0
Lappi 4, 0.67 /rally
Meeke 0
Suninen (hard to count since there is no n1 but could say 5 (Cor (Neuville, Tanak) + Arg (Tanak)) => 0.83/rally)

Sordo>Mikkelsen> (Suninen)> Lappi>Loeb/Latvala/Meeke

These are the facts. Certainly these are by far not the only things that matter when picking drivers, but it's interesting that the driver that quite a few seem to think should be fired and never hired by anyone again is ahead of 6 other drivers in manu points and 5 in the "taking points" part.

[Allez Andruet]

driver that quite a few seem to think should be fired and never hired by anyone again

And who were we talking about again?

[Tarmop]

Keep repeating that to yourself...but maybe preferably only to yourself? Just that this is getting old and tiresome..,

Neuville`s DNF helped his statistics to improve a lot, and because they don`t run all the events simultanously, it is hard to judge those "facts".

[mknight]

Neuville`s DNF helped his statistics to improve a lot, and because they don`t run all the events simultanously, it is hard to judge those "facts".

Neuville's DNF also helped Loeb's statistics, so did Meeke and Latvala (you noticed Loeb didn't actually overtake anyone of them, they just all crashed). Tanak's 2 drops helped Sordo's statistics etc etc. Can go like that forever. The points that are on the table are facts.

If it's tiresome nobody forces you to reply.

[AndyRAC]

Meeke best one 4th place, out of pace in Sweden. 4 rallies in a row with crashes (small or big) that cost him better result. 95 starts btw.


Did Meeke run over your cat or steal your sweets? Your anti-Meeke posts are pretty tiresome. We get that you don't rate him - give it a rest. FFS

[TRW]

Also won the power stage on his second event in SardegnA. Suninen won the fifth ever stage he did in a WRC car, in Poland

Yes and thats why we can say that Lappi and Suninen are super fast guys. But being in the game needs soooooo much more than being fast.

[wrc2017]

Loeb has brought points for himself in every rally he started. Manu points are something different.

For drivers that don't drive whole season team bosses likely want these things:
- manu points (measurable)
- taking points from driver title rivals (measurable)
- putting pressure on rivals (hard to measure, Loeb certainly does put psychic pressure on Ogier, but when he ends behind him in Chile it didn't have an effect in the end)
- publicity (also hard to measure, but Loeb wins that one for sure, from other drivers Meeke does get much more publicity than anyone else because of WRC crew)

Measurable things:

Manu points:
Sordo, took points in 2 out of 3 starts (66%), 6.67 points/rally
Loeb, took points in 2 out of 4 starts (50%), 6.75 points/rally
Mikkelsen, points in 3 out of 5 starts (60%), 7.2 points/rally

So at Hyundai Mikkelsen>Loeb>Sordo
(Sordo retirement due to technical issue in Mexico wasn't his fault though so it's a bit unfair to him)

Comparison with some of the other mentioned drivers is like this:
Latvala 3.33 points/rally
Lappi 6.33 but only out of 2 cars
Meeke 6.33
Suninen 6.0 out of 2 cars).

Mikkelsen>Loeb>Sordo > Meeke/Lappi > Suninen > Latvala
(the top 3 + Evans are ahead of everyone)

Taking points from other driver title challengers:
Sordo, 1 (Mexico Tanak PS ) + 2 (Cors place Tanak), + 3 (Arg Tanak place and PS) = 6 total, 2 /rally
Loeb 0 total, 0 per rally
Mikkelsen 5 total (Argentina Ogier place and Tanak place), 1/rally

Sordo>Mikkelsen>Loeb

Other drivers (counting 0 when they take points off own n1 at the same time), didn't do negative points when they actually help rivals (Meeke helped Ogier for 1 more point in Mexico). There might be an error of +- 1-2 points here somewhere:

Latvala 0
Lappi 4, 0.67 /rally
Meeke 0
Suninen (hard to count since there is no n1 but could say 5 (Cor (Neuville, Tanak) + Arg (Tanak)) => 0.83/rally)

Sordo>Mikkelsen> (Suninen)> Lappi>Loeb/Latvala/Meeke

These are the facts. Certainly these are by far not the only things that matter when picking drivers, but it's interesting that the driver that quite a few seem to think should be fired and never hired by anyone again is ahead of 6 other drivers in manu points and 5 in the "taking points" part.

boooooooooooorring.

[Tarmop]

Neuville's DNF also helped Loeb's statistics, so did Meeke and Latvala (you noticed Loeb didn't actually overtake anyone of them, they just all crashed). Tanak's 2 drops helped Sordo's statistics etc etc. Can go like that forever. The points that are on the table are facts.

If it's tiresome nobody forces you to reply.

LoeB was the fastest guy on Saturday and quite close to Ogier`s second. Without Neuville`s incident he would have been right there. Just maybe not allowed to overtake Neuville. You are again, bending the facts to suit you?/Mikkelsen better.

[racerx1979]

LoeB was the fastest guy on Saturday and quite close to Ogier`s second. Without Neuville`s incident he would have been right there. Just maybe not allowed to overtake Neuville. You are again, bending the facts to suit you?/Mikkelsen better.

Yep Loeb was fastest on Saturday by a good amount. If he was comfortable with the car on Friday he would have been fighting with Tanak ...

[wia5958]

Yep just need to fire mikkelsen and hire gronholm now as retired former world champs seem to do a better job maybe could pull carlos out 2 and they could split the car for the remainder of the season 😁😂

[gorganl2000]

statistics can be useful for analysis, discussions can be insightful, driver choices can be debatable, personal opinions are just that.

one significant fact remains---Loeb replaces Mikkelsen for Portugal

And quite frankly, i agree with this decision. Adamo seems willing to try things, which i think takes some fortitude given the situation.

[Rally Power]

Today's cars and rallyes need so much more know-how than ever (...)
Maybe it's good, it differences the men from the boys. But maybe we will never see such amount of WRC drivers (part program also) as we did in early 2000's.

Spot on. Current WRC cars are really challenging and only a few top drivers are able to take them to the limit on a permanent basis; most, like Mikkelsen, can only do it when the stars align…

[deephouse]

Yep just need to fire mikkelsen and hire gronholm now as retired former world champs seem to do a better job maybe could pull carlos out 2 and they could split the car for the remainder of the season ����

Have you watched rally sweden??

[wia5958]

Have you watched rally sweden??

It was a joke mate. Besides im pretty sure gronholm has won it a few times aswell

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/huttunenracing/status/1131978571549958144

Huttunen with the team base livery but his own sponsor decals

[Allez Andruet]

Just can't wait to see Huttunen in action tomorrow.

[mknight]

Just can't wait to see Huttunen in action tomorrow.
Do you have some link to stagetimes? I couldn't find any.

After a horrible last year in the slow and unreliable R5 it would be nice if he does well vs Katsuta in his first start in a car that is probably a bit worse on Finnish stages.

[AnttiL]

Stage times http://www.rallism.fi/content/fi/3/20238/Livetulokset.html%20

[Grutz]

David Evans article on Hyundai drivers for Finland. My pick is Neuville, Mikkelsen and Huttunen. However if Mikkelsen has poor Sardinia I think Paddon will be injected back into the team!

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-finland-drivers-sordo-loeb-mikkelsen/4395129/

[racerx1979]

David Evans article on Hyundai drivers for Finland. My pick is Neuville, Mikkelsen and Huttunen. However if Mikkelsen has poor Sardinia I think Paddon will be injected back into the team!

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-finland-drivers-sordo-loeb-mikkelsen/4395129/

Paddon already said he does not want to do one event... Maybe if they offer him 2-3 events he might reconsider?

[mknight]

The Finland problem is a relatively minor one, as no matter the driver I don't expect them to suddenly do well after so many years without a single podium.

The real problems if Loeb does not want to do more rallies are GB, AUS, TUR for Sordo (hasn't never done well in GB, didn't drive AUS the last years and never drove the new Turkey) and one of the two tarmac rallies for Mikkelsen.

Paddon is clearly the best candidate for those 4 gravel rallies either with Mikkelsen or could keep switching them. For tarmac Breen is about the only possible candidate but based on Loeb's performance in Corsica where he was even one place worse than Mikkelsen the year before I don't see it as very likely that they try another driver. Maybe if Loeb does Germany with good result they will try really hard to convince him to do Spain.

[wrc2017]

Just can't wait to see Huttunen in action tomorrow.
So Huttenin... that didnt go to plan.

[er88]

Katsuta seemingly in control of that rally today then...

[AnttiL]

Katsuta has quite lot more kilometres in a WRC car under the belt.

[Allez Andruet]

Have to say I was disappointed with Huttunen's performance. Yes, it was his first competitive outing in a World Rally Car, but still. That wasn't Meeke in that Yaris he was competing against. And that's not to take anything away from Katsuta. A clean and solid drive, well deserved victory for him.

I guess mr. Adamo's headache about the third i20 WRC for Finland didn't get any better today...

[tommeke_B]

The easiest solution to this problem is sitting somewhere in New Zealand right now... ;)

[Allez Andruet]

The easiest solution to this problem is sitting somewhere in New Zealand right now... ;)

So it seems... too bad Paddon's been completely out of any kind of WRC action since Australia. But I'd still pick him over Sordo or Huttunen (judged by today's event) to do Finland (assuming Le Maestro doesn't wanna do it).

[AnttiL]

Have to say I was disappointed with Huttunen's performance. Yes, it was his first competitive outing in a World Rally Car, but still.

You were just expecting too much. Remember, Katsuta has done a snow rally and lots of testing beforehand.

[Allez Andruet]

You were just expecting too much. Remember, Katsuta has done a snow rally and lots of testing beforehand.

Sure he has, but I was expecting Huttunen to arrive at WRC scene in somewhat Lappi/Suninen-kind-of-style. Which, now that we've seen today's results, can be translated into too high expectations. Hard to deny that. Personally disappointing in any case.

[AnttiL]

Sure he has, but I was expecting Huttunen to arrive at WRC scene in somewhat Lappi/Suninen-kind-of-style. Which, now that we've seen today's results, can be translated into too high expectations. Hard to deny that. Personally disappointing in any case.

Lappi’s Portugal 2017 wasn’t that flamboyant for the first two days. Suninen also spent the Poland Friday morning loop at the bottom positions.

Still, difficult to judge as long as Katsuta is the only point of comparison.

[Allez Andruet]

Lappi’s Portugal 2017 wasn’t that flamboyant for the first two days. Suninen also spent the Poland Friday morning loop at the bottom positions.

Still, difficult to judge as long as Katsuta is the only point of comparison.

Exactly, hard to judge when we don't know the level of comparison. Based on his R5-resume, I didn't rate him that high. Lappi and Suninen were able to more or less hang in there with the big boys, right from the get-go, which I think is far superior from Katsuta's level. But who knows, maybe Katsuta's just being underrated? We'll find out (hopefully) in the future, once Takamoto-san gets his chance in the top league.

[er88]

The easiest solution to this problem is sitting somewhere in New Zealand right now... ;)If the offer of 1-2-3 events was available, he should've taken it. It keeps him relevant and in the mix, which is basically all he needs to do considering Mikkelsen's form since he moved to Hyundai.

But Paddon seemingly turned that down which I do understand, but it seems more and more like he was cutting his nose off to spite his face...

[mknight]

Have to say I was disappointed with Huttunen's performance. Yes, it was his first competitive outing in a World Rally Car, but still. That wasn't Meeke in that Yaris he was competing against. And that's not to take anything away from Katsuta. A clean and solid drive, well deserved victory for him.

I guess mr. Adamo's headache about the third i20 WRC for Finland didn't get any better today...

Exactly my thoughts. Sure Katsuta has much more experience and Yaris is likely significantly better on these roads, but in R5s Huttunen is also on completely different level than him.

Not a bad rally from Huttunen, but as you say it doesn't invite for automatic Finland start. They will probably wait until his next rally in the car before deciding. (I believe he is supposed to do one more national rally in it?)

I'd say if Paddon gets an offer for 2-4 rallies (out of FIN, TUR, GB, AUS) now he definitely needs to take it (one would make little sense though).

Hyundai picks so far follow the scheme Neuville + "risky driver(with top 3 potential) " + " secure driver". The secure pick is normally Sordo, but in Sweden it was Mikkelsen and in Monte Loeb. Very hard to argue that Sordo will be a secure pick in Finland or GB and even harder to say he would have top potential on these rallies. I'd say this is why Sordo wasn't picked for Chile as it was kind of Finland/GB mix (+ off course the new rally factor) For Mikkelsen same is true in Finland (doesnt fit any of the roles), on the other rallies he fits the risky pick (with potential) role.

[Allez Andruet]

Not a bad rally from Huttunen, but as you say it doesn't invite for automatic Finland start. They will probably wait until his next rally in the car before deciding. (I believe he is supposed to do one more national rally in it?)

Yes, he will drive the WRC again in Pohjanmaa-ralli (next event in Finnish national championship) the same weekend the big boys are battling it out in Sardegna.

[mknight]

Well then its clear Hyundai will start picking after that weekend.

Though if Mikkelsen does well in Sardinia it says very little of how he could drive in Finland. After all Neuville won Sardinia last year and Mikkelsen led it before gearbox issues and both were nowhere near the top in Finland. In that sense Huttunen's performance on similar stages is much more relevant.

[doubled1978]

I think it’s very difficult to judge Huttunen on this rally, as we don’t know what Katsuta level is either. If I was betting on Katsuta being fast in the WRC car in one place, it would be Finland...so unless he drives Rally Finland in a 4th Yaris, difficult to know whether Huttunen was impressive or not.
For Paddon it’s a tough call, he needs to stay relevant but at the same time if he is only getting a one off, Finland is a tough place to jump in and shine and he could do his future more harm than good by driving.
Given the option of Loeb, Sordo, Paddon or Huttunen (if we assume that Mikkelsen will be in) I would give Huttunen a go as he will be motivated, have good mileage in the car on similar roads and should benefit from the best road position..but then I’m not Adamo and it’s not my money ��

[Mk2 RS2000]

The easiest solution to this problem is sitting somewhere in New Zealand right now... ;)

His last rally in NZ will be June 22nd, As an aside I saw John Kennard a few weeks back and he is as fit and sharp as he ever was

[mknight]

Given the option of Loeb, Sordo, Paddon or Huttunen (if we assume that Mikkelsen will be in) I would give Huttunen a go as he will be motivated, have good mileage in the car on similar roads and should benefit from the best road position..but then I’m not Adamo and it’s not my money ��

Well Huttunen is clearly much better choice than Sordo. Even if he doesn't do well he should finish at about same position, but as a new driver he can only surprise, which Sordo really can't in Finland at this point.

(Loeb said repeatedly he doesn't want to drive there, latest this week).

If Paddon is signed for Finland it's not so easy to say who they pick. Paddon himself would be a bit of a risk after not driving for a while + if they introduce the aero changes they promised it will be a different car for him. In that case they might prefer Mikkelsen over Huttunen unless Huttunen does really well on his next national outing.

[Grutz]

If the offer of 1-2-3 events was available, he should've taken it. It keeps him relevant and in the mix, which is basically all he needs to do considering Mikkelsen's form since he moved to Hyundai.

But Paddon seemingly turned that down which I do understand, but it seems more and more like he was cutting his nose off to spite his face...

I believe the original offer to Paddon was for only Rally Finland. However if I was Adamo I would be on the phone and offering Paddon Finland, Turkey, and Australia. But I'm a kiwi so probably a little biased!

[Mk2 RS2000]

I believe the original offer to Paddon was for only Rally Finland. However if I was Adamo I would be on the phone and offering Paddon Finland, Turkey, and Australia. But I'm a kiwi so probably a little biased!

I would offer him the not only the remained of this season but the following three years too

[doubled1978]

I believe the original offer to Paddon was for only Rally Finland. However if I was Adamo I would be on the phone and offering Paddon Finland, Turkey, and Australia. But I'm a kiwi so probably a little biased!

I would have had him in for more events from the start personally, but as they didn’t they have to try and make the best solution for Hyundai from now. I agree there is little sense in him doing only 1 event, but if they can offer him more than that and a decent chance to get back up to speed it should be worth considering..

[GigiGalliNo1]

Not sure but perhaps the Paddon/Hyundai Alzenau relationship has been burnt and it might start to grow again?

[KiwiWRCfan]

I would offer him the not only the remained of this season but the following three years too
I like the way you think

[deephouse]

Maybe Paddon decline Finland because he knew that one event (and a bad one for whole Hyundai) would not bring any chance of him doing more events or whole season again. He is sure good at those kind of roads but Hyundai isn't and that would not help him much. Let's face it, probably he would be best in 5th place and no one sign drivers who came for one off and be average.

[Allez Andruet]

Maybe Paddon decline Finland because he knew that one event (and a bad one for whole Hyundai) would not bring any chance of him doing more events or whole season again. He is sure good at those kind of roads but Hyundai isn't and that would not help him much. Let's face it, probably he would be best in 5th place and no one sign drivers who came for one off and be average.

It's probably impossible to challenge for the victory with the i20 in Finland, but Paddon ofcourse could have been compared to two other Hyundais. Too bad he obviously wasn't up for the call.

[mknight]

I wrote it already a few months ago that accepting the one rally has many more cons than pros for him.
- Hyundai has never been good there (0 podiums), so pretty much impossible to challenge for top 3 imo
- he had no time in the car until the rally, even if he did some testing rally like in Estonia last year it's a risk
- he we was fast there before, so anything but 4th place will just be just make him look bad, even if he beats both teammates

But with Loeb now having used 5 of his 6 starts and being vocal about not wanting more there is a very clear gap in GB and possibly Australia and Turkey where Sordo can't be expected to do very well.
This should open up for a 2-3 rally deal basically independent of how Mikkelsen does. In that case he should take it.

[er88]

Has it been mentioned how many rallies Sordo has a contract for?

He's done Mexico, Corsica and Argentina. He'll do Portugal, Sardinia, Germany & Spain at the very least, so that's 7. The only other gravel rally I can see him doing ok in is maybe Turkey, but he didn't do that rally last year.

It's clear Hyundai will be trying to get Loeb to do a few more, but he seems adamant he won't. "There's no point me doing 10 or so rallies as i would've just done a full season instead in that case" - or words to that effect in his latest wrc tv interview.

Paddon would be a good option for Finland/Turkey/GB/Australia, but Hyundai are also going to have to rely on big performances from Mikkelsen as well which isn't something you'd want to be doing, after his last year and a half. Adamo will have to build his confidence up.

[mknight]

They said Sordo had 7 rallies.



Hyundai are also going to have to rely on big performances from Mikkelsen as well which isn't something you'd want to be doing, after his last year and a half. Adamo will have to build his confidence up.

Even if they get Paddon for say GB there is still that 3rd car. So it should be their main interested to actually help Mikkelsen.

Less risk to rely on Mikkelsen doing well in GB/Tur/Australia based on his speed on all 3 last year than using the "safe" bet that Sordo will be slow there (as you said in Turkey he might do ok, but in GB there is little chance after all these years).

It does not look like a good way of building confidence to me when they drop him one rally after his probably best rally in the car (I'd say Turkey last year was better in terms of speed, but in terms of result Argentina was best).

[racerx1979]

Will be interesting to see how the Hyundai's do this weekend with their new differential.

[mknight]

Loeb said he was expected to come to Germany. So that maybe hasn't changed.

Also says there are no more rallies than one planned and that he needs holidays. So while that rules out Finland it somehow also opens a bit up for more starts later.

[AnttiL]

Loeb said he was expected to come to Germany. So that maybe hasn't changed.

Also says there are no more rallies than one planned and that he needs holidays. So while that rules out Finland it somehow also opens a bit up for more starts later.

I think everything is wide open for the remainder of the season. I would use Loeb for Spain where he won last year.

[mknight]

If he does Germany which sounds more and more likely for multiple reasons (doing 2 tarmac rallies before, saying he wanted to do it before and now mentioning he planned to do it before the change of plans), they will definitely wait after that before deciding for Spain.
Cause Corsica was easily the worst rally he did not only in last two years but also a few years before that. Even without the two crashes he would have had trouble beating Suninen who drove that for first time in WRC.

[Allez Andruet]

IMO it would be strange if Loeb indeed does only two rounds after this one, considering he's got a contract for 2020 as well.

[er88]

Loeb is for sure doing Spain. Everything else is open

[Grutz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PQyXgCw5vs

Latest Colin Clark Kitchen Table. Thoughts on Hyundai Rally Finland Lineup. CC very keen to see Paddon back!

[Zeakiwi2]

Paddon and Hyundai WRT are not likely to happen this year, Paddon would likely have to do Rally Finland with an untested co-driver, probably Finland is the last event a driver would want drive in that situation. Huttunen and Linnaketo likely combo.

[RallyNZ]

Paddon and Hyundai WRT are not likely to happen this year, Paddon would likely have to do Rally Finland with an untested co-driver, probably Finland is the last event a driver would want drive in that situation. Huttunen and Linnaketo likely combo.

Why wouldn't Kennard co-drive for Paddon if he got and excepted the offer to do Finland?

[Mk2 RS2000]

Why wouldn't Kennard co-drive for Paddon if he got and excepted the offer to do Finland?

JK is fit, healthy and still bouncing around.

[racerx1979]

Well if Paddon is asked to do Finland it needs to be done soon. He needs some time behind the car before he gets out on the stages. Obviously Hyundai was (is?) seriously considering Huttunen for Finland. I'm sure he would not do as well as Hayden considering he has only driven the car in anger once. His pace at Rihiimaki was okay and nothing to get excited about.

[spiderem]

do we know how Neuville got through, whilst both his teammate got the same issue in the same stage in Portugal? It appears Sordo and Loeb suffered the same mechanical issue, surprising to see Neuville un-affected.

[AnttiL]

Riku Tahko claims on Finnish radio today that Hyundai is testing a new damper brand on Huttunen’s outings

[T16]

Autosport article regarding Mikkelsen and the rest of 2019..

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/144033/mikkelsen-returns-to-hyundai-for-rally-sardinia

[er88]

Adamo doesn't trust him.

Whether you think Mikkelsen is deservedly in this position or not due to his form since joining Hyundai, this isn't the way to get the best out of him imo. Knowing any bad result or crash could lead to him being dropped again is tough for a driver mentally. Drivers need a clear mind - whether it's being told you're in the car for the rest of year or you'll miss this event or that. Clarity, whether it's good news or bad.

The comment from Adamo about football teams using their best players is telling...

[mknight]

It's telling that Adamo doesn't trust him yes.

On the other hand both times Adamo dropped him he didn't get a good result from the 3rd driver either.
- In Corsica Loeb finished 8th, one place worse than Mikkelsen the year before, being slowest Hyundai most of the weekend and with 2 crashes (I'd argue Sordo was the one who replace Mikkelsen though, not Loeb)
- In Portugal Loeb was again slowest Hyundai whole weekend, got technical issues in 9th place and crashed out on PS for no reason

I agree it's almost impossible to drive with team boss having approach like this. If Mikkelsen pushes and crashes/retires from podium or even first (like in Monte or Mexico) he might get dropped. If he drives ok without the last bit of risk he might get dropped (did that for 4th in Sweden, after which he got dropped)...and if he drives slowly and secures points he will definitely get dropped (Chile).

Anyway, since he said he doesn't want Huttunen for Finland he definitely must have an alternative in mind already, so is it only Paddon or does he also have someone else? (Breen?)

[Grundo Farb]

Paddon has posted a few times recently on social media statements such as "...more power means a bigger show for spectators and also allows me to keep up to speed with driving a faster car - staying match fit for the WRC". This is in reference to converting his AP4 car to having more power for hillclimbs.

I wonder if something is in the pipeline...

[Mk2 RS2000]

Paddon has posted a few times recently on social media statements such as "...more power means a bigger show for spectators and also allows me to keep up to speed with driving a faster car - staying match fit for the WRC". This is in reference to converting his AP4 car to having more power for hillclimbs.

I wonder if something is in the pipeline...

He could be talking about the next NZ event which is one day long and has 200km special stage distance on roads with a lightly gravelled surface and many crests

[Grutz]

I think this result has confirmed the lineup for Finland. Dani will be on a high and will probably change his mind and want to do Finland now! While is is not my preferred lineup, I think it will now be Neuville, Mikkelsen, and Sordo!

[Tarmop]

He does not enjoy driving there (Sordo) and probably won't.

[AnttiL]

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-dani-sordo-weve-been-fighting-all-time


Q:
When are we going to see you performing next? Finland maybe?
DS: It is not maybe, I don't know.

Q:
Would you like to be competing at Rally Finland? I know you don't have such a great relation with this event over the years.
DS: Oh no, it's a nice place, nice roads, it's a nice rally, but I would like to try also there. It’s not my favourite rally, but I don't have the scare of Finland, it's a nice place, but I will not talk about anything that we don't know yet.

Q:
Do you want to do more rallies, now that you have got this win on the board and you have been so competitive out there this weekend?
DS: No. Honestly, my plan this year was to do 8-10 rallies maximum, so I continue with my plan, I really like to do rallies like these ones. I enjoyed it, I would like to win all like I do, I will not change my mind. Of course, I want to do eight rallies as it is stated in my contract this year.

[AnttiL]

And also this funny bit


Q:
So, next event, Finland, what can we expect? Who is going to be in third car?
AA: I have to say, as I already said to some of you, they already told me the name of the bird that hides its head under the sand (ostrich), so I will leave my head under the sand until tomorrow because I don't want to think about that, but sooner or later it will arrive.

Q:
When is the sooner point when it will arrive? When are we going to know? On the entry list when it comes out?
AA: I can tell you when the latest point is (he laughs). Honestly, that third one is really a question mark for me so far.

Teemu Suninen says:
I am sure that there’s a guy in the team who is ready to do the rally and who would be really pleased to do it.

Q:
Oh, really, can you reveal some secrets here then?
TS: I have nothing…
AA: Lately press conferences have seen secrets revealed. Some insiders know, maybe.
TS: I didn't mean that one.

Q:
We've heard lots of things on conferences in these days…
AA: It is the most emotional moment of the rally lately, the press conference!
TS: I meant someone who has done two Finnish championship rallies… I am sure he wants to do it.

Q:
Do you think he should do it?
TM: I think he knows. It’s.Jari Huttunen.
AA: I don't know if he wants to do it, I also want to fly home tonight, but I can't, you know.

[AnttiL]

If you look at Sordo's Rally Finland 2017 results, he was the slowest WRC on almost every stage. Same for Mikkelsen last year. Not an easy choice for Adamo. Out of those two I would pick Mikkelsen because he's familiar with the route which is largely the same as last year, whereas Sordo skipped the rally last year.

[SubaruNorway]

Mikkelsen is driving, it's the third car they are deciding on

[the sniper]

Hidden in this Autosport article about Loeb winning his French national rally is seemingly confirmation that Huttunen won't drive the third car in Finland:


Despite Huttunen's win, Hyundai Motorsport director Andrea Adamo has confirmed he won't be driving the Korean squad's third car at Rally Finland in August.

"We use him because he is a guest driver and not a P1 driver," he said.

"Twice now - on separate rallies - he has tested the car and tested parts for us.

"This is what he's doing for us, he's checking the reliability on parts."

As for further news on Hyundai's third car in Finland, Adamo said: "I am like an ostrich at the moment.

"I have my head buried in the sand. Soon I have to take it out and make a decision."

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/144178/loeb-wins-home-national-rally-for-hyundai

Surely got to be Sordo then?

[AnttiL]

Sordo said he will do 10 events at max and Loeb will do 6 events at max. Both have driven now five events. There are six events left, meaning it would fit perfectly their plans. One for Loeb, the rest for Sordo. But that would mean Sordo would have to drive all of Finland, Wales and Australia - events he doesn't like or perform well in.

[rp]

Sordo said he will do 10 events at max and Loeb will do 6 events at max. Both have driven now five events. There are six events left, meaning it would fit perfectly their plans. One for Loeb, the rest for Sordo. But that would mean Sordo would have to drive all of Finland, Wales and Australia - events he doesn't like or perform well in.

It would be stupid by Hyundai, because Paddon would like to drive if more than one event and surely faster than Sordo in FIN, GB & AUS. There must be some conflict between Adamo/Hyundai and Paddon if he is not there...

Huttunen could drive well in Finland, but maybe better for him also to get more kms behind the wheel of the World Rally Car before being nominated works driver...

[Katvala]

Who knows, maybe the win in Sardinia sparks interest to do Finland and/or more rallies

Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

It would be stupid by Hyundai, because Paddon would like to drive if more than one event and surely faster than Sordo in FIN, GB & AUS. There must be some conflict between Adamo/Hyundai and Paddon if he is not there...

Well I thought it was that Paddon was offered one rally and he declined it. Maybe that could have been expanded by now had he accepted it initially?

[GravelBen]

Well I thought it was that Paddon was offered one rally and he declined it.

At the end of 2018 he was offered one rally for 2019, which was rumoured to be Sweden (even though Finland or Aus would have made more sense) but I don't know if that was ever confirmed. It was a fairly insulting offer after his performance for the team during that season, and its difficult for anyone to do well on a one-off drive without much time in the car so I can understand him declining it. That was before Adamo took over, so Adamo might not know him personally at all?

If they are talking to him now about other rallies this year (or 2020) its being kept quiet enough that I haven't seen any real hints in the NZ rallying facebook groups etc, but if there are serious talks I guess they would want to keep it quiet until something is confirmed anyway so that doesn't mean much.

[Morte66]

It seems to me that if they are going to bring Paddon in they should do it now, and enter him in as many warm-up events in a WRC car as they can.

Inviting him to Finland + GB + Australia seems like a reasonable solution for everyone.

[AnttiL]

So, they got Breen to fill in for Finland. Perhaps he will also do Wales?

[wia5958]

Breen signed with Hyundai

[doubled1978]

Interesting choice taking Breen, I hope he does well. Might lead to a couple more if he does, Wales and Australia?

[T16]

This Adama chap doesn’t mess around at all!
Cracking news for Breen.

[EstWRC]

Man, just the other day I wanted write here why don’t they hire Breen but I thought it’s a crazy idea and I didn’t do it.


Awesome news

[Eli]

This Adama chap doesn’t mess around at all!
Cracking news for Breen.

No Adamo doesn't mess at all, he'll do anything to get that Manu. title (it seem), first Loeb, now Breen, nice to see the Citroen guys finding a new home at Hyundai (again fingers crossed for Breen).

[masa90]

So seems like Paddon in wrc with Hyundai at least is not gonna happen anymore

[bassist]

Let's give a big shout to Craig and Paul, fantastic news, and I hope it will lead to more this season. Well deserved.

[doubled1978]

So seems like Paddon in wrc with Hyundai at least is not gonna happen anymore

Looks that way, I hope it’s not the end for him in WRC...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai clearly going all-out for the Manufacturers title, swapping and changing their line-up and now bringing in a 5th driver to the team.

If they dont win it now they never will.

[BigWorm]

A wise choice by them.

[AnttiL]

Another thing to consider: Loeb will do only one more event, meaning it's either Germany or Spain. Would Breen then do the remaining one of them alongside Sordo?

[AnttiL]

https://i.imgur.com/bKAaOgq.png

[BigWorm]

https://i.imgur.com/bKAaOgq.png

He turned the drive down. Or why is he this bitter?

[tomhlord]

He turned the drive down. Or why is he this bitter?

My thoughts exactly.

[T16]

https://i.imgur.com/bKAaOgq.png

That's the final nail in the coffin, if ever I've seen one.

[T16]

Hyundai clearly going all-out for the Manufacturers title, swapping and changing their line-up and now bringing in a 5th driver to the team.

If they dont win it now they never will.

Why can't they win it in years to come?

[masa90]

We do not know what the team and Paddon have agreed though. So not much point to judge him.

[GravelBen]

He turned the drive down.

IIRC he turned down a one-off drive for Sweden (maybe rumoured but not confirmed which round, it was a while ago!) when it was offered at the end of last year/start of this year. After the team backtracked on many other promises made to him last year...

I can see why this would seem like a bad joke to him, even if that might not be the most politic response.

Possible the team have been messing him around again too? Nothing has been made public about any discussions happening this year between him and the WRC team, but who knows.

[GravelBen]

Why can't they win it in years to come?

Think he's referring to the rumours that Hyundai corporate brass will pull the pin on WRC if they don't get a title this year. They are only rumours though as far as I know.

[AnttiL]

https://i.imgur.com/mmUESGG.png

[tomhlord]

https://i.imgur.com/mmUESGG.png

The plot thickens!

[BigWorm]

IIRC he turned down a one-off drive for Sweden (maybe rumoured but not confirmed which round, it was a while ago!) when it was offered at the end of last year/start of this year. After the team backtracked on many other promises made to him last year...

I can see why this would seem like a bad joke to him, even if that might not be the most politic response.

Possible the team have been messing him around again too? Nothing has been made public about any discussions happening this year between him and the WRC team, but who knows.

Adamo seems to be one cut-throat person, I'm only imagining if discussions between Paddon and Hyundai about Finland haven't been progressing that well Adamo would have turned to Breen who always was going to accept it. Unless Paddon had an agreement (which is why I asked why he is bitter and justifiably so then).

[BigWorm]

Adamo seems to be one cut-throat person, I'm only imagining if discussions between Paddon and Hyundai about Finland haven't been progressing that well Adamo would have turned to Breen who always was going to accept it. Unless Paddon had an agreement (which is why I asked why he is bitter and justifiably so then).

E: And now with Paddon's latest comment the perspective is completely changed.

[doubled1978]

Interesting twist that he says they were never officially offered anything.....surely there must have been some sort of falling out, as Paddons form end of last season was pretty good.
Maybe if he had stayed in Europe and done some rallies here it would have helped? Who knows...

[Allez Andruet]

Quite bold tweets from Paddon considering he still has a working relationship with the same manufacturer he's somewhat attacking against here.

[mknight]

While Paddon is already getting talked about, this is also pretty bad news for Hutunen. The suffering with Hyundai R5 could have paid off in at least getting a drive in a WRC car (even though it's historically not competetive in Finland).


As mentioned by others I also hope this means Breen is considered for GB and maybe Turkey (less likely) or Australia (more likely). If he gets only Finland it might end a bit bad for him.

On the general level I have to again mention that already in November I said that Hyundai should focus more on developing the car and making it work for all surfaces/rallies/drivers instead of swapping drivers all the time. While for Finland bringing in some other driver than Sordo/Loeb does make perfect sense I am not sure if it's a good sign in general.

But there are also signs that they are taking development seriously atm, with Loeb doing the two tarmac testing rallies and supposedly a major upgrade coming before Finland. But as early as after Finland and Germany we should have an answer on how the development work went.

---------------------

Another thing to consider: Loeb will do only one more event, meaning it's either Germany or Spain. Would Breen then do the remaining one of them alongside Sordo?

Clearly with Breen getting in the mix it is much less likely that Loeb will do GB or some other gravel rally. The 2 tarmac rallies he is doing now make it all but certain that he will drive Germany or Spain. He mentioned multiple times he wanted holiday in August so he'll probably do Spain.

In that case I can't see Breen doing Germany instead of Mikkelsen for multiple reasons. He finished behind him in last 2 years, one of them in the same car (2017 C3). As proven by both Loeb and Mikkelsen, i20 is very difficult to adapt to on tarmac, if Loeb couldn't do it over 2 rallies, it's a long shot to think Breen would do it immediately, would also need a lot of testing. Mikkelsen has not driven on dry tarmac this year after all the supposed adaptations of the car on tarmac, only in Monte where he crashed from 3rd, so imo it's very likely he will get to drive on one of the two tarmac rounds.

----------
EDIT:

To be clear, as I wrote already a month ago Paddon was clearly the best choice to drive in Finland in terms of speed/result. But there seems to have been other reasons at play.

If Paddon is not possible for whatever reason Østberg would be my number 2 pick, but he is somehow employed at Citroen, leaving Breen as good choice (better than Sordo by all means).

[AnttiL]

While Paddon is already getting talked about, this is also pretty bad news for Hutunen. The suffering with Hyundai R5 could have paid off in at least getting a drive in a WRC car (even though it's historically not competetive in Finland).

I think they want to keep him as a "guest driver" for more testing days.

[mknight]

I think they want to keep him as a "guest driver" for more testing days.

Sure that's good for Hyundai but not good for Hutunen at all. He doesn't get to drive a WRC rally and is "stuck" in the bad R5. Though he did some rallies in other cars earlier this year, but then I guess he has to pay it himself.

[AnttiL]

Sure that's good for Hyundai but not good for Hutunen at all. He doesn't get to drive a WRC rally and is "stuck" in the bad R5. Though he did some rallies in other cars earlier this year, but then I guess he has to pay it himself.

only Rally Sweden in a Skoda.

[racerx1979]

Who is managing Paddon? It might be a good idea to switch management companies at this rate. Also, is his dedication to Hyundai NZ helping him or hurting him?? If Breen was completely dedicated to Citroen having some kind of loyalty he would be in the same place as Paddon without a WRC drive. He's been screwed twice now... how many more times...

Is anyone besides Kiwi fans paying attention to his NZ results?? I was talking to a few people in the business and they had zero clue as to what his results were in NZ. I understand for him he needs seat time to be fresh, but everyone has said he should be in an R5 car. If Mads was running around doing some Norwegian championship we would forget about him. This is why Breen and Mad's plan of doing ERC/WRC events is probably the best bet...

At the end of the day, I'm just a below average goober behind a keyboard when I write this, but I too can see poor Paddon is not getting a fair shot, but I think some of this is also due to his actions.

Edit even Huttunen is getting driving time in an i20 WRC. Paddon would have been a good choice to do testing, but something is getting in the way. I'm not saying this is Paddons thinking, but having a "I want full drive or nothing" mentality will get you, well, nothing...

[AnttiL]

Paddon has too strong ties with Hyundai NZ and his own motorsport business. He could leave that behind for a few years in WRC but he would also abandon a possible lifelong career in NZ.

The rallies he has done back home must have been frustrating when he's the only one who's on a professional level, on a proper machine. He has won the rallies by several minutes of margin.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe none of this is down to Paddon's actions or 'bad luck'.

It could just be that all the hard work by Breen and his supporters in being so active in Europe and the determination to show his quality has finally paid off...

[BigWorm]

Edit even Huttunen is getting driving time in an i20 WRC. Paddon would have been a good choice to do testing, but something is getting in the way. I'm not saying this is Paddons thinking, but having a "I want full drive or nothing" mentality will get you, well, nothing...

Probably because Huttunen is based in Europe and Paddon's current obligations in NZ.

Paddon's loyalty to Hyundai isn't being rewarded in WRC, he is more nice to them than what's being brought back. I'd say he has to cut his ties with Hyundai if he wants to be back full time sooner rather than later but would you gamble on everything you've established in NZ for such a risk?

[T16]

Who is managing Paddon? It might be a good idea to switch management companies at this rate. Also, is his dedication to Hyundai NZ helping him or hurting him?? If Breen was completely dedicated to Citroen having some kind of loyalty he would be in the same place as Paddon without a WRC drive. He's been screwed twice now... how many more times...

Is anyone besides Kiwi fans paying attention to his NZ results?? I was talking to a few people in the business and they had zero clue as to what his results were in NZ. I understand for him he needs seat time to be fresh, but everyone has said he should be in an R5 car. If Mads was running around doing some Norwegian championship we would forget about him. This is why Breen and Mad's plan of doing ERC/WRC events is probably the best bet...

At the end of the day, I'm just a below average goober behind a keyboard when I write this, but I too can see poor Paddon is not getting a fair shot, but I think some of this is also due to his actions.

Edit even Huttunen is getting driving time in an i20 WRC. Paddon would have been a good choice to do testing, but something is getting in the way. I'm not saying this is Paddons thinking, but having a "I want full drive or nothing" mentality will get you, well, nothing...

Unfortunately for him, I think it's all irrelevant now anyway, after his 'April fool's' comment. Openly mocking his team's decision and that of the current Hyundai boss is about as openly critical I can recall a driver being of his team in a long, long time.

I think that's him burning his bridge from a Hyundai WRC point of view, but it may not be such a bad thing that he finally moves on and starts communicating with other teams.
I feel a bit sorry for the lad, but as we've seen for a long time in this sport, there are more bums than seats.

[Andre Oliveira]

Flashback: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/140655/paddon-exits-wrc-after-hyundai-loeb-deal

[greencroft]

Sorry to say it but I think Paddon has overstepped the mark badly with his ill-judged Tweet even if that's what he thought. Yes, it is good to show passion etc but I think he will come to regret making his feelings so clear in such a public way rather than potentially cut off his nose to spite his face. I really rate him as a driver but he has fallen victim to circumstance of more drivers than seats at WRC level and particularly Loeb's resurgence last year that led to his Hyundai signing.

At the same time, I am delighted for Craig Breen that he has found his way back to the top level and hope that the car allows him to do himself justice in Finland and that more drives come his way after this.

[steve.mandzij]

Unfortunately for him, I think it's all irrelevant now anyway, after his 'April fool's' comment. Openly mocking his team's decision and that of the current Hyundai boss is about as openly critical I can recall a driver being of his team in a long, long time.

I think that's him burning his bridge from a Hyundai WRC point of view, but it may not be such a bad thing that he finally moves on and starts communicating with other teams.
I feel a bit sorry for the lad, but as we've seen for a long time in this sport, there are more bums than seats.As glad as I am to see Breen back, I can't help but feel Paddon has been terribly abused by Hyundai, and he's in his full right to feel offended, or at least like an idiot.

He refused to leave the Hyundai spehere of influence as a sign of loyalty and hurt his own chances of getting a WRC drive for this year, then still maintained his C-Level status in the company with the hope of getting the call, and Hyundai ends up deciding to skip their available drivers and reach out to a guy who never had anything to do with the brand.

[Barreis]

More throwing up from Evans
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/144371

[mknight]

Speculation:

Paddon only wanted to do Finland if they guaranteed him additional starts this year and Hyundai didn't wanted to do that. (being all about last second changes with Adamo). This would make perfect sense from Paddon's view as only doing Finland was basically just a risk for him.

Instead they went "behind his back" and got Breen. For Breen it's still a risk but he very much has nothing to loose in first rally in a car that is historically bad in Finland.

[mknight]

More throwing up from Evans
http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/144371
This is actually a pretty bad article.

He talks about Breens 2017 performance in Finland where he beat Meeke as being 12 months ago and doesn't say anything about last year when he was overshadowed by Østberg.

Similarly he talks about Loeb never enjoying Finland in his time at Hyundai.

And the speculation about Breen getting a podium is on a fantasy level. That, said I'd say the same about Sordo winning a rally 2 weeks ago.

[SubaruNorway]

"There were a couple of lean years when a snotter of a Peugeot let him down and he succumbed to a back injury after landing a private Ford Fiesta RS WRC heavily on Myhinpaa."

That was in Ruuhimäki first run in 2014 and i filmed it. Just to correct that.

[janvanvurpa]

Paddon has too strong ties with Hyundai NZ and his own motorsport business. He could leave that behind for a few years in WRC but he would also abandon a possible lifelong career in NZ.

The rallies he has done back home must have been frustrating when he's the only one who's on a professional level, on a proper machine. He has won the rallies by several minutes of margin.

7 minutes over the week-end... That really doesn't do anything good for him or the NZRC.

http://www.chrissport.nz/events/

[T16]

Another thought to consider... If today's tweet was Paddon venting spleen in such a public manner, what was his behaviour like behind the scenes? Of course this is just speculation, but he may have simply been too harsh for his own good in his communications and negotiations with the team.

[Tarmop]

Do you see a way how he would fit in the team anyway? He has experience with this car, finished last season on a high (podium from Australia), whereas Breen had 2 or 3 mistakes? And we know the result.

But i am happy for Breen.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Adamo quote is clear enough on their reason for choosing Breen:
"Rally Finland is a very particular type of event that warrants an approach like no other on the calendar,” said our Team Director Andrea. “It’s a huge challenge for teams and crews alike. Craig has demonstrated his class at this event in the past and has a lot of experience, which will be invaluable to us.”

[Lead]

Not sure if Mikkelsen over Loeb in Finland is a great choice by Hyundai. Only if Andreas discover great car settings and finds good feeling with the car on fast roads in Estonia, otherwise he has always been terrible there.

[Tarmop]

Well, not convincing numbers, when you add the experience with the specific car...

[Allez Andruet]

Not sure if Mikkelsen over Loeb in Finland is a great choice by Hyundai.

I don't think it's Hyundai's choice. If Loeb has made anything clear about his 2019 campaign, it's that he's not interested in doing Finland.

[Rallyper]

This story has not ended. First we´ll have to see what result comes out from Finland. Knowing Adamo´s mind he well could bring other drivers, Paddon included. Paddons comment today only showed his frustration not being talked to. Let´s wait and see. Speculations at this moment what will happen, is worthless.

[racerx1979]

The April fools comment says a lot if you think about it. He is obviously very bitter and upset. I think Paddon thinks his allegiance to Hyundai NZ carries some weight with Hyundai WRT, but it's obvious they could care less about his rallying ventures outside of the WRC.

It might be a good time to move on and start aggressively working on a drive with other teams. April fools already took place when he was offered one event... It's July now.

[AL14]

It might be a good time to move on and start aggressively working on a drive with other teams.

Imho he should have done it already but seats are very few and it's not easy especially if you don't pay to drive.
We don't know what brought Adamo to chose for Breen over him so maybe his rage is understandable but for sure it will not be of any help to him to make it public.

[dimviii]

Hayden Paddon
‏ @HaydenPaddon


I will say my comments are nothing against @Craig_Breen and I wish him all the best for the rally! Naturally - I am dissapointed that we weren’t considered

[polomayu]

Comments from paddon in the comments of the article from wrc in facebook:

Oisin Sherlock we didn’t get offered nothing

Andrew Little yes it has always been media speculation. We have been talking to them last 2 months trying to do this rally

I don't know how to post the screenshot, sorry.

[mknight]

Sounds more and more like he wanted some larger package than just one rally. Can't see why they would pick Breen over him if he agreed on a one rally deal tbh.

[Rallyper]

He wasn’t considered...
Enough for me to understand.

[tommeke_B]

You'd think something has gone horribly wrong between Paddon and the team in the last year(s)... Although Breen is a very good driver, obviously, I think Paddon would be the most logical choice.

[wia5958]

Or Hyundai playing the long game and eyeing potential drivers for next season

[Rallyper]

Or Hyundai playing the long game and eyeing potential drivers for next season

I don’t see the discrepancy between potential and logical regarding which driver they should have chosen...

[Toyoda]

My view on the topic is it is all on Neuville, he is the driving leader, he is the one who needs the support from the other drivers, the relationship between Paddon and Neuville has never been good since was it 2015 with the issue when Neuville had his off whilst fighting with Paddon which later turned out to be a technical issue and Paddon made some end-stage comments.
Neuville would have preferred Breen which is somewhat backed up by the Tweet on the Hyundai page in congratulations which would never happen in the case of Paddon getting the drive.

The question now is can Paddon take a drive with another manufacturer whilst maintaining his connection with Hyundai in NZ or are/is he willing to put them on hold for a bit. Paddon's manager is his dad I believe so it will be a different style of negotiating I would suspect which may not be as in your face as others.

I just can't see a good outcome for Hayden any-which-way, he is fast but not Ott/Neuville/Ogier, he is still underdone on Tarmak, and he is from an unknown little country miles away, he has not enough currency to come to the door and kick the door down at another manufacturer like you need you when are out of the seat circle.

Gutted for the bloke as he, he is the nicest guy and has a lot to give.

[GravelBen]

Copied from Paddon's facebook post today:


"I will make one single post here about the current situation and our feelings, as for too long we have said nothing and tried to do the right thing. Firstly, happy for Craig and I wish him all the best for the rally.

I will point out all the talk that we turned down the offer of a 1 Rally drive with Hyundai is not correct and was blown out of proportion from media speculation. Originally there was talk of this when we first got news of no seat for 2019 last December, and at the time emotion was raw after being left high and dry. However nothing was formally discussed. Since February we have actively been in communication to be involved with the team in any role - testing, 1 off rallies (Finland).....anything. My passion is still very high for WRC and I feel I’m at my prime at present. I know the car well and was prepared to jump straight in and do a good job for the team.

So naturally you can understand we are very upset. I have given my life to this brand in everything I do. Our NZ business, our NZ Hyundai partnership, purchase of a TCR car, everything we possibly could do! And yet we were not even spoken to about this event despite us offering our services several times. Since we did our last rally in Australia, we have had very little communication from them - no acknowledgment of our time with them, no formal thank you, no heads up on the future.

I will say through all this, how much we appreciate the unconditional support from Hyundai NZ and how much they have my back. They fully support all our comments. Many people say we need to cut our ties – well, think of it this way, do you cut your ties for a couple of years in the WRC vs a potential lifetime partnership in this part of the world? It’s never as straightforward as most people think.

Big thanks to all your support. Means a lot. Again I stress this is nothing against Craig, I have nothing but respect for him and it’s only natural you take what opportunities you can.”

[steve.mandzij]

Copied from Paddon's facebook post today:Well spoken and relatively diplomatic post, kudos to him for calling out Hyundai while still remaining civil.

It's awfully unfortunate that he was hung out to dry in such a fashion. A lot of wasted potential in him. I hope Hyundai get their act together now, and don't retaliate because Paddon got upset.

[Grundo Farb]

Personally I believe his loyalty to the brand is completely misplaced and he shouldn’t limit his options both now and in the future to one brand, he models himself on possum Bourne who stayed with Subaru, but then possum wasn’t dumped by Subaru ... but that’s his choice.

My take on this is that both Neuville and Mikkelsen don’t get on with Hayden, not because he’s a bad bloke but Hayden does better than Mikkelsen and Neuville wants to protect Mikkelsen as they are friends so I believe Neuville may have a veto in the process. If so, he will never get a drive there.

As a long term paddon fan he needs to pick up the phone and annoy tommi right now saying he wants to rub Hyundai’s nose in it next year. That’s what a driver who wants to win would do.

If he stays “loyal” to the brand then he will be stuck back in Cromwell tinkering I’m afraid.

[AnttiL]

Personally I believe his loyalty to the brand is completely misplaced and he shouldn’t limit his options both now and in the future to one brand, he models himself on possum Bourne who stayed with Subaru, but then possum wasn’t dumped by Subaru ... but that’s his choice.

No, it's just that he has so much more going on in NZ with Hyundai than just WRC

[GravelBen]

My take on this is that both Neuville and Mikkelsen don’t get on with Hayden, not because he’s a bad bloke but Hayden does better than Mikkelsen and Neuville wants to protect Mikkelsen as they are friends so I believe Neuville may have a veto in the process. If so, he will never get a drive there.

I've gotten the impression at times that Neuville felt threatened by Paddon's speed. And when Neuville feels insecure he tends to over-drive and make mistakes. So that may well be part of the issue.

To not even consider Paddon for an event like Finland where he has often been the fastest Hyundai driver and has a good track record, and instead gamble on someone totally new to the team and unfamiliar with the car... it suggests that someone high up in the team really doesn't want him there no matter how good he is.

[Grundo Farb]

I've gotten the impression at times that Neuville felt threatened by Paddon's speed. And when Neuville feels insecure he tends to over-drive and make mistakes. So that may well be part of the issue.

To not even consider Paddon for an event like Finland where he has often been the fastest Hyundai driver and has a good track record, and instead gamble on someone totally new to the team and unfamiliar with the car... it suggests that someone high up in the team really doesn't want him there no matter how good he is.

Yes. Totally agree, I really think neuville is being protected and I think Hayden’s chance with them really has gone

[cossie123]

Every time i seen Haydon Paddon drive in the wrc his car was damaged...too many accidents and poor times leads to losing your seat...

11 years in wrc and wins a single rally...

Dont really think Paddon has much to shout about.

[cali]

Every time i seen Haydon Paddon drive in the wrc his car was damaged...too many accidents and poor times leads to losing your seat...Then you have not seen a lot of WRC

[mknight]

Every time i seen Haydon Paddon drive in the wrc his car was damaged...too many accidents and poor times leads to losing your seat...

In this situation this is unfair. While he was slowest Hyundai for most of 2018 he had one rally where he clearly was the fastest of them all....Finland.

So when a different driver that never drove the car and is not an established rally winner gets a single start in Finland instead of him, it is normal that people (including me) find it strange.

[deephouse]

What potential drivers next year? Will they hire 3 more guys for each rally one. The problem is not in drivers and their rotation. It's the car they need to work at. Fire the useless engineers and a few key people and hire some who have been in WRC for a long time. They are running out of time. When Toyota will resolve their issues they will be unstopabble with Tanak on it. And then they won't have a chance of a single title.

[RS]

Breen seems like a sensible choice. He is match-fit and has done well in Finland in the past.

But what’s the deal with Huttunen? Is he in or out with Hyundai? I thought he had been driving some events in a Hyundai World Rally Car and I see he is in Poland this weekend with an i20 R5.

[AL14]

But what’s the deal with Huttunen? Is he in or out with Hyundai? I thought he had been driving some events in a Hyundai World Rally Car and I see he is in Poland this weekend with an i20 R5.

That is what I was wondering too.
It's a pity they're giving space to every driver possibile but not considering a future promise. I get that they're going all in for this year manufacturers at least but they are completing messing their longterm involvement

[AnttiL]

I repeat again - with Huttunen remaining a guest driver they get more testing days for the whole team

[AL14]

I repeat again - with Huttunen remaining a guest driver they get more testing days for the whole team

That's a quite sad reason

[doubled1978]

That's a quite sad reason

It is, but I can’t argue with the logic from Adamo really. If they believe Huttenen is fast and they can use him as a test driver without using up test days by not starting him in a WRC event, then it’s in their interests to do so.
I would have liked to have seen him the 3rd car in Finland for sure, but now the reasons for him not are becoming apparent, I can’t argue with it.

[wrc2017]

That is what I was wondering too.
It's a pity they're giving space to every driver possibile but not considering a future promise. I get that they're going all in for this year manufacturers at least but they are completing messing their longterm involvement

Their long term involvement depends on them wining a championship

[AnttiL]

That's a quite sad reason

At least it's a rational one.

[AL14]

Their long term involvement depends on them wining a championship

Then they should have hired Ogier back in 2017 and/or this year.
They will win manufacturers this year (maybe) but what about next years? If their long term involvement depends on them winning today, their long term success depends on them investing on drivers today.

In the latest years I've seen only them and Citroen swapping drivers all the time. They won nothing.

I don't know if this is Adamo's logic or he's just doing what Hyundai told him (winning something this year) but I find sad that they're hiring a 5th drivers letting their young gun at home. Not to talk about Paddon.

[Tarmop]

They have been there for 5 full seasons and Korea is getting tired, they demand a title, so put Adamo in charge of this goal. Simple as ABC really imho. :D

[er88]

What potential drivers next year?

Adamo's first plan will be to try and get Loeb to do as many rallies as possible. After he sorts that out and retains Sordo, only then will he think of who does what rallies, whether Mikkelsen is content with not a full campaign and whether they need to bring someone like Breen in on a more regular basis etc etc.

As of now this rotation is working, they lead the manufacturers and could end up winning it. However Toyota have had a lot of bad luck with punctures ruining events, mechanical issues and driving mistakes, so Hyundai might need that to continue to have a realistic chance. They need to limit the damage as much as possible in Finland as a Tanak/ Jari 1-2 looks very likely.

[AnttiL]

I think it's better for both parties that Mikkelsen and Hyundai don't continue their co-operation for next year. Breen might play an interesting role in this equation.

[BigWorm]

I think it's better for both parties that Mikkelsen and Hyundai don't continue their co-operation for next year. Breen might play an interesting role in this equation.

First, we must see how he fares in Finland. I would find it very interesting to let Breen do Germany as well with Neuville and Sordo if they are really out to ditch Mikkelsen next year given his struggles with the i20 on sealed surfaces.

Both have the experience from driving the C3 and both were somewhat successful in some rallies (I reckon Mikkelsen's brief stint was quite good with what he achieved in Germany) in that car so let's watch this space.

[doubled1978]

I think it's better for both parties that Mikkelsen and Hyundai don't continue their co-operation for next year. Breen might play an interesting role in this equation.

For sure, Breen is now another spanner in the works for Mikkelsen. I suppose for Mikkelsen staying at Hyundai for a partial programme or not will depend on whether he can get a seat anywhere else..
Toyota - seems impossible
Msport - maybe, but looks like would need budget
Citroen - if they run a 3rd car maybe...Red Bull might help a bit I suppose

[mknight]

I think it's better for both parties that Mikkelsen and Hyundai don't continue their co-operation for next year. Breen might play an interesting role in this equation.

Breens role would be that is likely willing to do part-time season, while Mikkelsen will do all that he can to avoid it as well as try to get away from Hyundai... unless the car finally changes on tarmac now that they put Loeb full time to work on changing that.



First, we must see how he fares in Finland. I would find it very interesting to let Breen do Germany as well with Neuville and Sordo if they are really out to ditch Mikkelsen next year given his struggles with the i20 on sealed surfaces.

Both have the experience from driving the C3 and both were somewhat successful in some rallies (I reckon Mikkelsen's brief stint was quite good with what he achieved in Germany) in that car so let's watch
this space.

Finland won't decide much. Hyundai was always terrible there and for Mikkelsem it's also basically his weakest rally. Even if the car improves there and Breen fights for 4-5 place while Mikkelsen is 7-9th the event is so special and different from rest of the season not much will be decided based on that. Maybe for Breen it could increase his chances for GB outing.

As I wrote before I think there is close to zero chance of Breen doing Germany instead of Mikkelsen for a long list of reasons. Familiarity with the car on tarmac, need for extra testing, historically no good results for Breen in germany and very good for Mikkelsen, Adamo's focus on short term results over long term etc.

Provided Mikkelsen drives one of the two remaining tarmac rallies the pace there will imo make the final decision for both parties. If he doesn't have pace, Hyundai will only offer part-time program (if anything) and Mikkelsen wouldn't not want to stay in a car that he can't compete with on tarmac. This is another big reason why I think he will do one of the tarmac rallies.



Adamo's first plan will be to try and get Loeb to do as many rallies as possible. After he sorts that out and retains Sordo, only then will he think of who does what rallies, whether Mikkelsen is content with not a full campaign and whether they need to bring someone like Breen in on a more regular basis etc etc.


I am not so sure about how geared he is for Loeb atm. So far his hiring (done by Nandan) has been quite a disaster in terms of results and speed, basically 1 good and 1 ok results and 3 very weak events.
Sure PR is good (as expected) and when Loeb had the fight with Ogier in Chile the headlines were everywhere. It indeed looked promising on gravel after Chile but then came Portugal which was another disaster with no speed and crashing out without pressure.

Loeb's stuggles with I20 on tarmac in Monte and especially Corsica are imo even bigger than Mikkelsens. Cause Loeb certainly is a better tarmac driver than Mikkelsen, even at this point, and he was getting a beating by Suninen in his first tarmac outings as well as both his teammates (on Corsica). Off course this might change given then mentioned focus on tarmac development for Loeb atm.

But as it is now, Adamo might instead try to get Sordo to do as many rallies as possible only leaving out the events he really has troubles on (SWE, FIN, GB), having Loeb do the "contracted" number of events and having the last driver fill the gaps. Looking at what rallies need to fill this guy might easily be Breen or Østberg.

------------------------------
Generally as many pointed out Adamo atm. seem to have extremely short term focus. I agree that if they stay next year this might backfire in multiple ways.

[greencroft]

Has Breen made any comparisons between the Hyundai he has just tested and the C3 he drove last year?

[deephouse]

Has Breen made any comparisons between the Hyundai he has just tested and the C3 he drove last year?

I don't think he is allowed to or specify he is still hoping to get either Hyundai seat or Citroen more reguraly. Remember Mikkelsen spoke only after he signed for two years.

[tomhlord]

I believe that Hyundai is developing a new WRC for next season based on the new i20. The road car will be revealed soon.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/new-hyundai-i10-previewed-ahead-frankfurt-show-debut

[pantealex]

I believe that Hyundai is developing a new WRC for next season based on the new i20. The road car will be revealed soon.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/new-hyundai-i10-previewed-ahead-frankfurt-show-debut

That story is about i10 which is very very small car, way too small for WRC-base.

[mknight]

Read it.
It says that a masked modell that was spotted in Europe was actually i20 prototype rather than i10, which they show now.

[pantealex]

Read it.
It says that a masked modell that was spotted in Europe was actually i20 prototype rather than i10, which they show now.

"A prototype spotted a while ago with less disguise on European roads, thought to be the i10, is now in fact believed to be the larger i20."

That is only single thing which is about i20 (all rest of story and all pictures are i10) and that makes you think: Hyundai is building new WRC, I´m not that good in reading between lines than you are.

[dimviii]

"Although she is very physical to drive, it's a car that requires aggressive driving to get the best, I'm enjoying more and more driving in the i20 WRC. Its versatility makes it naturally comfortable on all surfaces and that's important for confidence. I did not hear much Perrine during the run, it changes me Daniel! In my search for the best driving feeling with this car, opportunities are rare to be able to focus only on the road and forget the notes for a moment.

https://www.hyundai.fr/actualites/438

[mknight]

"A prototype spotted a while ago with less disguise on European roads, thought to be the i10, is now in fact believed to be the larger i20."

That is only single thing which is about i20 (all rest of story and all pictures are i10) and that makes you think: Hyundai is building new WRC, I´m not that good in reading between lines than you are.

1. Takes from the quoted article:
- there is a new i10 coming
- there is a new i20 coming

You got it now as well after denying it...

2. tomhlords opinion:
"I believe Hyundai is making a new WRC...

It's his opinion.

[AnttiL]

I believe that Hyundai is developing a new WRC for next season based on the new i20. The road car will be revealed soon.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-motor-show/new-hyundai-i10-previewed-ahead-frankfurt-show-debut

I can't believe they would do it for only two more seasons scheduled with the current regulations. Would FIA even allow new models anymore?

[Andre Oliveira]

Well, they created one car for one year only in 2016.

[Zeakiwi2]

Another possibility is Hyundai ( if they stay in wrc) would be to have a 2 year development program for a new i20 2022 hybrid wrc car, so they don't go into the hybrid-wrc series with an under developed car or to spread the hybrid wrc development program workload with an on going wrc competition program.

[mknight]

(I'll post rally Di Alba Loeb stuff here instead of huden in the Italian section)

Check out Loeb on the start of the vid:
https://youtu.be/p_2pv8fj5Rg

That's a style you'd expect from Galli on tarmac. Maybe they switched with the guy from the DS3 at 2:20.

[EstWRC]

this is the way you have to drive with that car, exactly like Neuville does, sliding around, its a miracle for me how he doesnt destroy his tyres with it

[mknight]

Yes that's my point, either he is trying it to see what it does or he already gave up
trying to adapt the car and goes for Neuville's style instead. (Mikkelsen came to this conclusions after Spain last year)

Problem is that with this kind of driving it is on pure speed typically slower than at least 2 Toyotas, at least one Fiesta (Evans) and sometimes even than C3.

Putting it on 4-5 place unless others have issues, which luckily for Neuville they often do.

In Corsica Evans, Tänak and Meeke were faster than Neuville, in Spain last year Loeb (in C3), Ogier (Fiesta), Evans, Tänak and Latvala were all faster.

[racerx1979]

(I'll post rally Di Alba Loeb stuff here instead of huden in the Italian section)

Check out Loeb on the start of the vid:
https://youtu.be/p_2pv8fj5Rg

That's a style you'd expect from Galli on tarmac. Maybe they switched with the guy from the DS3 at 2:20.

The road is covered with dust... what do you expect?

[mknight]

The road is covered with dust... what do you expect?
Did you see the DS3?
Also there are now multiple vids from the SD from multiple corners, same story. One or often both DS3s drive clean while Loeb goes sideways.

[mknight]

Digged out the vid of Neuville from Corsica that EstWRC found:

https://youtu.be/6TM3tWbff-w

Neuville 1:45, Tänak 2:25, Evans 2:45

[EstWRC]

Digged out the vid of Neuville from Corsica that EstWRC found:

https://youtu.be/6TM3tWbff-w

Neuville 1:45, Tänak 2:25, Evans 2:45

Evans at 2.55*

yep, this is one example, i remember there also being other vids where Thierry is sliding around

[denkimi]

The road is covered with dust... what do you expect?
That doesn't matter. Clean roads, slippery roads, even snowy roads, the fastest driving style is the same.

If loeb is drifting, it is because the car is forcing him to do so.

[Rally Power]

I imagine Breen being choosed instead of Paddon was endlessly discussed here, but has Hyundai officially explained it? To me it’s still a mystery. Anyway, it’s great to have both back to the WRC, although it may be tough to debut on a new car and team in such a demanding event. Fingers crossed for them!

[Barreis]

there's no discussion with Adamo, he works purely as a manager, no need for an explenation

[mknight]

I heard somewhere that Adamo said that all connections with Paddon were work of "previous management".

Also when commenting on the driver change for Portugal he said "when you see the kind of result we had in Chile you have to act quickly".

My general impression is that he always has to "make decisions" instead of keeping stuff the same or making low risk decisions (like getting Paddon for Finland). Instead he goes for Breen cause after all Breen has a Finland podium.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of how Nandan looked, for example with the tarmac car getting no changes for a year (from Spain 2017 to 2018) even though all drivers struggled.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/wrc-tallipomo-pelaa-kovaa-pelia-han-tekee-kaikkensa-jotta-talli-voittaisi-mestaruuden/

Adamo will choose the third driver for Australia based on the results after Catalunya. If Sordo gets a good result, his starting position is compromised, whereas Breen would most likely have a good starting position

[er88]

https://www.rallit.fi/wrc-tallipomo-pelaa-kovaa-pelia-han-tekee-kaikkensa-jotta-talli-voittaisi-mestaruuden/

Adamo will choose the third driver for Australia based on the results after Catalunya. If Sordo gets a good result, his starting position is compromised, whereas Breen would most likely have a good starting positionThis is where rotating the drivers works/ can work. On gravel rallies one (sometimes two) of the Hyundai's have had great road position due to not doing the whole championship. Sordo is also happy to do a part time season, so no loss of motivation that could effect performance.

[AnttiL]

https://petrolicious.com/articles/we-chatted-with-sebastien-loeb-before-he-returns-to-wrc-with-hyundai

Loeb interview. Just a minor detail at the end, his dream race with the Hyundai is on smooth gravel (not on tarmac)

[tommeke_B]

Like everybody, he wants to go to New Zealand, for sure. :)

Anyway, this was an interview before the season...

[Tarmop]

Well, he had driven the i30n already, when this interview took place. Something Hyundai FRA revealed in June...weather is also quite "t-shirty" and nature green in that one, so i doubt it took place in December. Though yes, there are some controvercies in that article, like "chat before the season"...then again, "They also have a few different drivers to select from between Dani, and me, so they can choose who the best driver for each race and at the moment this works quite well. I hope we will continue at this pace and continue to be able to fight for the championship.”"

[AnttiL]

Anyway, this was an interview before the season...

Oh damn, I just picked it up from twitter today, should have read more carefully.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Like everybody, he wants to go to New Zealand, for sure. :)

Well Mr Loeb is the defending WRC champion from Rally NZ 2012

[KiwiWRCfan]

https://www.rallit.fi/wrc-tallipomo-pelaa-kovaa-pelia-han-tekee-kaikkensa-jotta-talli-voittaisi-mestaruuden/

Adamo will choose the third driver for Australia based on the results after Catalunya. If Sordo gets a good result, his starting position is compromised, whereas Breen would most likely have a good starting position

Adamo does not have the ability to decide after Catalunya. Entries for Australia close on October 14th, 10 days before Rally Catalunya starts