Hyundai WRT

[GigiGalliNo1]

I wonder how the new Korean tires will work on the Korean car :D

[dupanton]

Interesting, Thiry's mother tongue isn't german as well is it?

Yes, they are both from the same (small) german-speaking part of Belgium.

[becher]

Yes, they are both from the same (small) german-speaking part of Belgium.

Ah would've never guessed.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/469980769_9739474616069578_5117200410615792317_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=nQRcefiP044Q7kNvgHSxxAm&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo4-1.fna&_nc_gid=AyObaiEqs6_YAZOJGX6nImg&oh=00_AYC_yZVdOfapX-YLTkvWOK9e8csAXlO2t_vEtE-LuYp3hw&oe=675F3A80
https://scontent.fopo4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470085640_9739474492736257_4818519183313239376_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=7qPE4UJSgUUQ7kNvgE7SHIf&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo4-1.fna&_nc_gid=AVbLiCEno0HBzsRWGYr0lmq&oh=00_AYAsa8smZEi9THzKhdptQN36GJbKczQ91S6l9_HHEYpn ug&oe=675F4154

[rallyfiend]

Well, that came very close to Thierry cancelling his jet to Rwanda for the Prize Giving....

[deephouse]

Even if they both get DNQ on Rally Japan, Neuville would win the title, and Toyota would take the manufacturers crown. Tanak's off wouldn't be ''salvaged''. So they rather give them fine, since it wouldn't changed anything.

[Zoli]

deephouse is right... Furthermore, read the document, please. It's just a picture in the documentation which is not accurate, but all the other information like CAD geometry matched the differential in the car. It's a documentation error, not cheating like some people want to make it up.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fourmaux getting equal status, hmmm...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmaux-assured-of-equal-status-by-hyundai/

[deephouse]

deephouse is right... Furthermore, read the document, please. It's just a picture in the documentation which is not accurate, but all the other information like CAD geometry matched the differential in the car. It's a documentation error, not cheating like some people want to make it up.

It was also in article that those kind of violations are usually sanctioned by DNQ, but this time, when there woudln't be changed anything from both championships (driver/co-driver and manucaturer), they give them fine.

In the latest rallypod podcast by dirfish that interviewer was also not well informed and search for non-sense at CER also.

I don't get this Hyundai hate, when people keep digging for trifles and stuff that happen. Like that Toyota didn't achieve everything they could year by year since they enter the sport again. Don't confuse me as a Hyundai fan (I was when Paddon was at the top level), but right now I'm rooting for them just by fact, that maybe, just maybe will convince them if they do win something in 2025 and 2026 (if they will still be around) to revalue their participation in the sport, as they are much needed (still), until the sport grows again.


Fourmaux getting equal status, hmmm...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmaux-assured-of-equal-status-by-hyundai/

Yeah, we will see what the god will have to say.

[macebig]

It's the same smooth talking Abiteboul applied to Ricciardo in 2018. It ended with both Ricciardo and Cyril leaving Renault 1,5 years on. History will probably repeat itself...

[becher]

Why are people getting worked up on this? Hyundai has two of the best drivers in the world under contract, Fourmaux had one (!) decent season. It doesn't matter what status he get's he'll be the third driver anyway.

In what world are people living that think Fourmaux will be held small to benefit
Neuville?

[deephouse]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1080384247431711&set=a.655635116573295 Adrien in proper colors now. It was about time.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why are people getting worked up on this? Hyundai has two of the best drivers in the world under contract, Fourmaux had one (!) decent season. It doesn't matter what status he get's he'll be the third driver anyway.

In what world are people living that think Fourmaux will be held small to benefit
Neuville?

Because no-one thinks he will challenge Neuville and Tanak, so why even say he has 'equal status'. He's Hyundai's 3rd Driver and that's it, that's his status.

[denkimi]

Because no-one thinks he will challenge Neuville and Tanak, so why even say he has 'equal status'. He's Hyundai's 3rd Driver and that's it, that's his status.
You never know. It's unlikely, but maybe the ford was really that bad.

Maybe he'll win monte.

[EstWRC]

Welcome Fourmaux !

https://x.com/rallyesport/status/1867603560650731620?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[TypeR]

Welcome Fourmaux !

https://x.com/rallyesport/status/1867603560650731620?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg
Smooth and familiar switch from Ford to Hyundai.. :D

[wyler]

Smooth and familiar switch from Ford to Hyundai.. :D

"same status" already applying! :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He beat Rovanpera on the first stage of Hivernal du Dévoluy 2024...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/91180-rallye-national-hivernal-du-devoluy-2024/?s=479107&ct=7094

https://www.ewrc-results.com/results/91180-rallye-national-hivernal-du-devoluy-2024/?s=479107

[EstWRC]

Loriaux gone https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-wrc-program-manager-loriaux-departs-team/

[EstWRC]

With Loriaux leaving the operation, Hyundai has reshuffled its team structure with Pablo Marcos rejoining the marque as team manager after a season at M-Sport Ford. Former team manager Tolga Ozakinci will now take up a newly-created role of Head of Race Operations.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-announces-wrc-team-reshuffle-as-loriaux-departs/10683861/

[skarderud]

Is this true?

Private team in 2026 and finally out in 2027?2602

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[AndersX]

Is this true?

Private team in 2026 and finally out in 2027?2602

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Nobody from outside knows 100%, but i would guess this is true with rather high probability.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This is a the same rumour as in September (saying PH Sport could run the cars in 2026, then then Hyundai would quit completely from 2027).

[deephouse]

If some other tams or manufacturer will show interest and actualy enter the field, then we will not care. But leaving in those crucial times it's not a good news at all.

Come on Skoda, you constantly tease with that concept and now with cheaper and more open regs they could step up. Also Lancia and maybe Subaru.

[PLuto]

Is this true?

Private team in 2026 and finally out in 2027?2602

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

This info is spreading for more than two years...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lappi update on Insta... still in discussions with Hyundai, but also teams in other Series..

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEfQf4ZNTgW/?igsh=eDRhNDFrN2JtdnY3

[rallyfiend]

Lappi update on Insta... still in discussions with Hyundai, but also teams in other Series..

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEfQf4ZNTgW/?igsh=eDRhNDFrN2JtdnY3

I wonder what he's talking to these teams about? They got some vacancies for truck drivers?

[bandit12]

I wonder what he's talking to these teams about? They got some vacancies for truck drivers?

Rally2 with Mälkonen

[EstWRC]

The team principal has spoken

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuville-pushes-team-mates-to-play-team-game/

[Kras]

The team principal has spoken

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuville-pushes-team-mates-to-play-team-game/

LMAO pathetic from Neuville

[Fast Eddie WRC]

LMAO pathetic from Neuville

He's right, there had to be a decision made that ensured the Manufacturers Title in that situation. Risking throwing away the whole team season's work was ridiculous.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He's also right that Hyundai need to field a 4th car in 2025 to fight Toyota.

“I mean obviously it’s a strong line-up for sure,” Neuville commented. “I believe that it’s a good choice in terms of driver line-up and three full-time drivers. But I also believe that a fourth guy can be very helpful, especially with Toyota having five in some events.”

[trykmann]

He's right, there had to be a decision made that ensured the Manufacturers Title in that situation. Risking throwing away the whole team season's work was ridiculous.

Easy for him to blame. He was lucky in CER to get out from the ditch and not to break the car. Still winners write the history and this time Tänaks crash was pivotal for the title race.

[focus206]

Easy for him to blame. He was lucky in CER to get out from the ditch and not to break the car. Still winners write the history and this time Tänaks crash was pivotal for the title race.

More than counterbalanced by the car that broke by itself in Safari and Japan and that could have costed dearly, or the circumstances in Latvia that led to very few points gained. It's easy to point out the singular lucky moment while ignoring the unlucky ones.

[Tauri_J]

Then why you didnt mention the unluckiest accident from last season?

[maailmameister]

I agree that Tänak made an unforgivable mistake in Japan. But he was still theoretically driving for the title. Mikkelsen, who made stupid mistakes in the Central Europe Rally and also in Japan, rather fell short. He was brought in to drive with the sole purpose of bringing points to the team.

[mknight]

Mikkelsen brought 17 manu points over those two last rallies to Hyundai. More specifically in Japan he made the title fight last to the power stage where both him and Neuville failed vs Ogier. (Toyota would win title even if PS ended Ogier-Neuville-Mikkelsen-Evans)

Tanak brought 22 manu points over the same two rallies. Much more importantly he crashed out when told to drive safely for 5th-ish place on Sunday (Abitebouls words) losing Hyundai a secured title. Being last on the road on a stage that was getting very dirty with at least 3 early running cars pushing he had no chance to ever get driver title.

Even in the case of Neuville crashing 2 Toyotas were pushing on Sunday (Katsuta focusing on PS) as it was the only way to secure title + Mikkelsen was pushing cause he was first on road and had no points to guard. So Tanak would never get full Sunday+PS points.

Unforgettable mistake is indeed the right word. Do wonder why is there a need to point at someone else?

Two rallies before Lappi brought 0 manu points in Chile, should we start blaming him as well, or Tanak for the rally ending crash in Finland, or Neuville for CER off?

Nope, no other situation compares to throwing away a secured title by Tanak on Sunday in Japan.

[Backa]

Being last on the road on a stage that was getting very dirty with at least 3 early running cars pushing he had no chance to ever get driver title.

Even in the case of Neuville crashing 2 Toyotas were pushing on Sunday (Katsuta focusing on PS) as it was the only way to secure title + Mikkelsen was pushing cause he was first on road and had no points to guard. So Tanak would never get full Sunday+PS points.

Tanak needed 7 out of possible 12 points in case of Thierry retiring. And on his last split, he was 2 seconds faster than Evans and 6 second faster than Ogier.

[TypeR]

Team principal says that there will be 2025 spec car in Sweden:
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuville-reveals-hyundai-2025-car-debut-timeline/

[EstWRC]

Anyone knows if they will debut also new livery before Monte?

I was thinking they maybe will do it with the new car from Sweden

[Eli]

Anyone knows if they will debut also new livery before Monte?

I was thinking they maybe will do it with the new car from Sweden

Perhaps they’ll do the opposite, give us an ugly car for Monte-Carlo, only to change it to something beautiful in Sweden.

[EstWRC]

Like Toyota, Hyundai also with the same livery https://x.com/hmsgofficial/status/1880287102870700474?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[Rallyest]

Like Toyota, Hyundai also with the same livery https://x.com/hmsgofficial/status/1880287102870700474?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

Sorry my language but so fucking boring from both manus, hope m-sport saves the day

[Eli]

Like Toyota, Hyundai also with the same livery https://x.com/hmsgofficial/status/1880287102870700474?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

Ugly….no way they’ll do this for Monte-Carlo only ey? Hate it, hated it last year when they presented it and hate it still now.

[jcevc]

Maybe `team principal´ likes this livery... :)

[saco0o]

i find unbelieveable stupid these factory teams dont choose to do some cool liveries because its literally the thing we will be looking at the whole year! make a good looking livery and you'll get 10000000000x more exposure because people will not tire to take more and more pictures of the cars! i'd even say paint each car with one different livery (on the same team). that would be so rad! i understand thats "bad" for when they need to replace parts during the breaks/overnight..... HOWEVER, absolutely ZERO fans would bother seeing different colors on each driver's car - like ott on a "darker" i20 having to use a "red" front bumper from tierry's livery because thats the spare they had on the pits, u'know? f that, mate

[WRC1]

thats one of the reasons rally will never be succesfull like F1, look at them, every car manufactor is fighting to get into F1, Rally ist fighting since 10 years for 1 new entry and nobody has interest, even when F1 is 10x more expensive...nobody cares about rallye, not even the marketing people of the companies that are involved....normally every marketing guy must cry out loud if he see the livery of Toyota, but nobody cares....

Hyundai´s Livery is at least a Livery even if it is the same as last year...but Toyota is just a shame...

[macebig]

Toyota's livery has very little to do with WRC itself, though. It's Gazoo Racing's branding and they use it on all their racing activities. Even Haas in F1 has black colored surfaces with TGR's logos on them.

[Backa]

thats one of the reasons rally will never be succesfull like F1, look at them, every car manufactor is fighting to get into F1, Rally ist fighting since 10 years for 1 new entry and nobody has interest, even when F1 is 10x more expensive...nobody cares about rallye, not even the marketing people of the companies that are involved....normally every marketing guy must cry out loud if he see the livery of Toyota, but nobody cares....

Hyundai´s Livery is at least a Livery even if it is the same as last year...but Toyota is just a shame...

It's not one of reasons and F1 has their fair share of bad or boring liveries. There was plenty of complaining of too much "naked carbon" on F1 cars to save weight.

[RS]

This article suggests Hyundai have recommitted to WRC, although not for how long.. maybe just to end of current ruleset?

https://www.the-race.com/formula-e/what-is-happening-with-potential-hyundai-mclaren-formula-e-entry/

[Tauri_J]

thats one of the reasons rally will never be succesfull like F1, look at them, every car manufactor is fighting to get into F1, Rally ist fighting since 10 years for 1 new entry and nobody has interest, even when F1 is 10x more expensive...nobody cares about rallye, not even the marketing people of the companies that are involved....normally every marketing guy must cry out loud if he see the livery of Toyota, but nobody cares....

Hyundai´s Livery is at least a Livery even if it is the same as last year...but Toyota is just a shame...

Come on dude, liverys are least of WRC's problems.

[rallyfiend]

thats one of the reasons rally will never be succesfull like F1, look at them, every car manufactor is fighting to get into F1, Rally ist fighting since 10 years for 1 new entry and nobody has interest, even when F1 is 10x more expensive...nobody cares about rallye, not even the marketing people of the companies that are involved....normally every marketing guy must cry out loud if he see the livery of Toyota, but nobody cares....

Hyundai´s Livery is at least a Livery even if it is the same as last year...but Toyota is just a shame...

And yet almost every F1 team looks basically the same year after year after year...

[focus206]

Seems like they will use the golden roof all year round? In 2024 they had the blue/red roof in Monte (different livery), Sweden, Chile, CER and Japan. So there's your livery change for 2025 (in worse) :D

[tbazsi95]

Lotterer in the Hyundai next to Neuville on the shakedown
https://www.instagram.com/p/DFK47qBokz7/

[deephouse]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1DJqDg51kJ/

Hyundai should launch their new car just like this 🤣

(seems there isn't sound, and I can't find original on YT)

[Steve Boyd]

(seems there isn't sound, and I can't find original on YT)Click on the loudspeaker icon (bottom right) to un-mute. It plays the James Bond theme.

[Eli]

First one of the season: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgku4QcTNJ8

[skarderud]

Hyundai WRT stops investments after safarirally.

End of story obvious.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[deephouse]

Not a surprise anymore.

[EstWRC]

Source?

[skarderud]

Source?https://worldrally.se/hyundai-wrt-slutar-investera-efter-mars/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIPHwZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHSWP1IX-DV7e9VBwfREl4xM8YPPpf7j4Z66IV2VZuiaY-GX96z1_dw-tnQ_aem_3r0qWyNH0FCW4MSMox7ANA




Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[deephouse]

https://rallyjournal.com/strong-rumours-surrounding-the-future-of-hyundais-wrc-team/ I read it the same here, better explained. But officially it's still rumours.

[deephouse]

https://rallyjournal.com/is-hyundai-preparing-to-exit-the-world-rally-championship-team-boss-speaks-out/ So he finaly admit it they will leave. He said that 2027 regs aren't what Hyundai's vision is. And (again) they try to change those to be more like they want them to be. Why would anyone bother if Hyundai will leave anyway? I mean, what's the point. They already got many advantages and wishes granted... For what. Not appreciate it and still run away.

[trykmann]

https://youtu.be/qrkdaa8qJoE?si=mHU8_07CprKrvioP

The headline is ironic. Yes, we didn't see what was wrong with Tänaks car or how the team reacted to different problems during the weekend. Instead we mostly saw Thierry driving and giving interviews.

[1988senna]

https://rallyjournal.com/is-hyundai-preparing-to-exit-the-world-rally-championship-team-boss-speaks-out/ So he finaly admit it they will leave. He said that 2027 regs aren't what Hyundai's vision is. And (again) they try to change those to be more like they want them to be. Why would anyone bother if Hyundai will leave anyway? I mean, what's the point. They already got many advantages and wishes granted... For what. Not appreciate it and still run away.

so if 2026 Hyundai become private team and run by Neuville, how can Neuville be the team manager and driver at the same time

[deephouse]

so if 2026 Hyundai become private team and run by Neuville, how can Neuville be the team manager and driver at the same time

He is doing that for some time now. 🤣 You know what I mean 😜

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://rallyjournal.com/is-hyundai-preparing-to-exit-the-world-rally-championship-team-boss-speaks-out/ So he finaly admit it they will leave. He said that 2027 regs aren't what Hyundai's vision is. And (again) they try to change those to be more like they want them to be. Why would anyone bother if Hyundai will leave anyway? I mean, what's the point. They already got many advantages and wishes granted... For what. Not appreciate it and still run away.

I don't think it's so clear cut. It's the new Regs and their short timing that's the issue.

Hyundai may be looking for some time extension, or a dispensation of a kind (like the Jokers they had brought forward), to allow them to continue.

And with no guarantee of new Manufacturers coming in 2027 the WRC may want to keep those they have at any cost...

[deephouse]

I don't buy it. Of course the regs came too late for everyone. But the field will be the same for everyone. What they want? 10 years to prepare? 20 more jokers? Additional testing days? Ballast on competitor cars? Why Toyota or M-Sport don't demand those ridiculous things for them to justify their participation? Why M-Sport, who really don't have any chance of having a good result even bother? Excuse that Hyundai don't have any available model for rallying isn't everyone's else fault, but it's theirs. Also taking them forever to won only 3 titles also, if that's the problem (if they think they will won straight away in a huge field in WEC, they should just wake from their dreams).

I think that they already had a 10-year plan, when they start this journey. And then Cyril just help them drove out of the sport, because his heart isn't really here. I also think that 2027 regulations will be "official" excuse for them to leave for good. Thank god we have them, for all the battles and help keeping the sport alive, but if that's it, right before it could be saved again, it's a huge blow to the whole world.

I'm just realist and not having fingers crossed anymore, because it doesn't have any point.

[EstWRC]

Kenya road book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qyc5FWiIhA

[EstWRC]

Can’t wait to see Canarias road book

lol

[TypeR]

Can’t wait to see Canarias road book

lol
Building service area - 10min of black screen silence - packing service area and leaving :D

[EstWRC]

Based on this article I would say they are definitely gone from the series

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-threatens-to-leave-wrc-if-2027-regulations-dont-change/


And about Portugal. Tänak sounds quite pessimistic in an interview given to Estonian media saying that they haven’t tested the car on gravel. Which is a half lie IMO because at the end of the last year they were testing. I guess he means the new car and the new tyres combo.

[TypeR]

Like reading same whining article for 10th time.. we want this and we want that..

[Kras]

I hope they leave. Atleast Toyota won't be able to pretend anymore that they have any competition and that they aren't just collecting Mickey Mouse titles

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC cant go on with just Toyota and M'Sport though, so Hyundai have them over a barrel.

Plus Hyundai do need to promote their road cars which aren't pure ICE now, never mind from 2027.

[Kras]

WRC cant go on with just Toyota and M'Sport though, so Hyundai have them over a barrel.

Plus Hyundai do need to promote their road cars which aren't pure ICE now, never mind from 2027.

Focusing on manufacturers is what's gonna kill WRC. Just allow independent constructors. It's not like current cars have any road relevance

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH I dont know how much support Ford will continue to give to M-Sport in future as the Mk2 Puma will be pure EV. Maybe unlike Hyundai they'll just he happy with the FORD name being promoted by WRC rather than the tech.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good summary of the situation by RallyingUK:

https://x.com/RallyingUK/status/1917175290771447902

[doubled1978]

Ultimately, if they do decide to pull out, I would think they will have to go to Rally2 in the short term to ensure some sort of competitive championship.
In the broader terms, the car industry is clearly pulling back on the speed of transition to EV as the sales (despite whatever rubbish people claim) just aren’t sufficient with private buyers, in the Uk anyway. We have seen numerous announcements from manufactures reinvesting in ICE technology.
The current status quo will have to change as the manufactures/dealers etc just can’t sustain the level of pre-registrations and discounting to meet arbitrary targets.
If that leaves space for the WRC to run as ICE only with manufacture support indefinitely, I don’t know.

[deephouse]

And here we go again. Why would rulemakers even bother listen to them, if they will leave anyway, no matter what rule will be changed, just because of them. They threat now for so long. If there is really interest from manufacturers and tuners for 2027, I think that they should not change anything. And Hyundai, we are sick of complaining. Just go already and ashame yourself even in WEC, I bet Toyota and all others will beat them there too.

[flat_right]

And here we go again. Why would rulemakers even bother listen to them, if they will leave anyway, no matter what rule will be changed, just because of them. They threat now for so long. If there is really interest from manufacturers and tuners for 2027, I think that they should not change anything. And Hyundai, we are sick of complaining. Just go already and ashame yourself even in WEC, I bet Toyota and all others will beat them there too.

I don't like it either. Who knows how many years the rumors have been around about Hyundai leaving—yet there's still no confirmation, and they keep demanding that the rules go their way.

[wyler]

and what if they are right instead? in the end, it's the manufactures that bring money and value to the championship. a privateer run main class in 2027 could send the wrc down the sink...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

and what if they are right instead? in the end, it's the manufactures that bring money and value to the championship. a privateer run main class in 2027 could send the wrc down the sink...

I agree. I just dont see a viable WRC without Manufacturers. It's never been done before so it's got to be questionable how it could now. I'd love to know who the 'tuners' are that are interested and whose car bodywork they are going to fit to the chassis ?

[typhoon]

I agree. I just dont see a viable WRC without Manufacturers. It's never been done before so it's got to be questionable how it could now. I'd love to know who the 'tuners' are that are interested and whose car bodywork they are going to fit to the chassis ?

I well remember WRC after 2008-2009, when both Subaru and Suzuki pulled off, but eventually with the 1600 WRC cars it recovered very well.

It was the same story, high costs, low return of investment etc, but eventually WRC was able to rise back from its ashes. Let the Phoenix cook once again, if there's serious tuners (Prodrive or something like that I suppose?) or Manufacturers.

[skarderud]

I agree. I just dont see a viable WRC without Manufacturers. It's never been done before so it's got to be questionable how it could now. I'd love to know who the 'tuners' are that are interested and whose car bodywork they are going to fit to the chassis ?It was common in 60-70-80-90's.
Most semi-private, tuners and importers.
But it was buyable roadcars they tuned and raced.

A spaceframe formula without a manufacturer involvment is just a set of rules away.
If its anyone interested to build and race them we don't know.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[wyler]

It was common in 60-70-80-90's.
Most semi-private, tuners and importers.
But it was buyable roadcars they tuned and raced.

A spaceframe formula without a manufacturer involvment is just a set of rules away.
If its anyone interested to build and race them we don't know.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

but we have a big hint from the erc... it's barely working at that level...
(I mean, no real team involved (official or private), not many drivers doing the entire championship, not even the tyres company -mrf aside- are making pr/marketing from it...)

[wyler]

I well remember WRC after 2008-2009, when both Subaru and Suzuki pulled off, but eventually with the 1600 WRC cars it recovered very well.

It was the same story, high costs, low return of investment etc, but eventually WRC was able to rise back from its ashes. Let the Phoenix cook once again, if there's serious tuners (Prodrive or something like that I suppose?) or Manufacturers.

true, but still 1600 wrc was a top class for manufactures, and privateers were using their cars also.
i agree that something similar to that era could work in term of tech reg...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In the earlier decades private teams used Manufacturers cars, they didn't make them from scratch. I can only think of one which was Prodrive and the Mini that I dont think was a factory car.

It's not even easy to get sponsors for WRC1. M-Sport as the only 'tuner' has struggled for years and only certain drivers bringing Red Bull has kept them viable.

[rallyfiend]

In the earlier decades private teams used Manufacturers cars, they didn't make them from scratch. I can only think of one which was Prodrive and the Mini that I dont think was a factory car.

It's not even easy to get sponsors for WRC1. M-Sport as the only 'tuner' has struggled for years and only certain drivers bringing Red Bull has kept them viable.

Red Bull sponsor M-Sport because of Ford, not becauseo of drivers.....

[dodge33cymru]

I assumed Red Bull sponsored Ford so that the WRC product that they own doesn't lose its World Championship status and disappear completely.

[deephouse]

What about Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Castrol they had on their cars. They can attract sponsors but, sponsors require some results. And with drivers not able to achieve anything, sponsors will be gone. I know that with results come also big paycheck for drivers, but when the situation with not enough seats, those who think that they deserve that much as Ogier, should lower their standards. They still earn more than normal mortal could ever earn.

I was quite surprised that Red Bull even stick with M-Sport (probably because F1-Ford future connection). Usualy they go with champions and champion winning machines. And interesting that they are not on Toyota, because when they came back, they straight away start winning.

[pedro16]

What about Abu Dhabi, Qatar, Castrol they had on their cars. They can attract sponsors but, sponsors require some results. And with drivers not able to achieve anything, sponsors will be gone. I know that with results come also big paycheck for drivers, but when the situation with not enough seats, those who think that they deserve that much as Ogier, should lower their standards. They still earn more than normal mortal could ever earn.

I was quite surprised that Red Bull even stick with M-Sport (probably because F1-Ford future connection). Usualy they go with champions and champion winning machines. And interesting that they are not on Toyota, because when they came back, they straight away start winning.

Red Bull is part owner of the promoter. It's of their interest that M-Sport stays afloat.

[typhoon]

In the earlier decades private teams used Manufacturers cars, they didn't make them from scratch. I can only think of one which was Prodrive and the Mini that I dont think was a factory car.

It's not even easy to get sponsors for WRC1. M-Sport as the only 'tuner' has struggled for years and only certain drivers bringing Red Bull has kept them viable.

Same was Subaru with Prodrive, maybe tuners getting some backing from a partner Manufacturer would ease the budget effort of the Manufacturers itself, but it could help out filling the entries with top-class cars?

I think that tuners like M-Sport (with all their difficulties) or Prodrive (which I think they learned from their mistakes with the Mini JCW) would bring good value together with manufacturers like Toyota and maybe any between Skoda and Stellantis, whatever brand they'll select to get back if it's their goal.

Sometimes a good shuffle can be a positive.

[WRCStan]

In the earlier decades private teams used Manufacturers cars, they didn't make them from scratch. I can only think of one which was Prodrive and the Mini that I dont think was a factory car.

Heading off topic, but Ralliart? Eventually got bought out by Mitsubishi.

[WRCStan]

Heading off topic

Hyundai Mk 1? That was MSD.

[saco0o]

what TURNERS actually mean? can I build the spaceframe and add some body pannels resembling a Chevy Sonic and compete? how the homologation thing works for Turners? or I have to choose between a few avaliable homologated bodies? (Puma, Yaris, Skoda, i20...?)

[deephouse]

Sometimes tuners do know stuff better than official manufacturers. So it would be sometimes better if manufacturer just throw money to them, and they would run things for them. In Hyundai's case I think this would be the best option to continue. And Paddon could take over their programme, since his team can build cars and he being loyal to that brand.

[wyler]

Same was Subaru with Prodrive, maybe tuners getting some backing from a partner Manufacturer would ease the budget effort of the Manufacturers itself, but it could help out filling the entries with top-class cars?

I think that tuners like M-Sport (with all their difficulties) or Prodrive (which I think they learned from their mistakes with the Mini JCW) would bring good value together with manufacturers like Toyota and maybe any between Skoda and Stellantis, whatever brand they'll select to get back if it's their goal.

Sometimes a good shuffle can be a positive.

m-sport, prodrive (subaru and mini), rallyart were all backed by manufacturers, or at least, the project was allowed by. they needed an omologation green light by the manufacturer.

the opposite was like corsa r5 or mirage r5, which were never authorized by manufacturers and never really competed.

i don't know with the future reg how this thing will work. maybe private builders will use a body not resembling any manus car...

on the other side, I would explore the r-gt market. alpine and porsche are developing something, why don't help them...

[PLuto]

the opposite was like corsa r5 or mirage r5, which were never authorized by manufacturers and never really competed.

But they were developed (same like Suzuki R5) with approval of manufacturer. But in the final it didnt went into official homologation as nobody wanted to pay the fee for it...

[focus206]

Ralliart can't be considered a tuner, it was literally the Mitsubishi rally/Dakar division. Yes, it was estabilished by Cowan but then it almost immediately became the official Mitsubishi works team, so in my view it can't be considered a tuner.

The line is often blurred between works/semi-works/private effort. Prodrive, M-Sport, MSD were all tuners that were chosen by manufacturers to run their WRC program, so to me they're works team too, just not in-house. M-Sport from 2013 on, after Ford officially left, I consider a semi-works "tuner".
Then we have Kronos Citroen in 2006 or PH-Sport Citroen in 2016 or Jolly Club Lancia (especially in 1992 and 1993 when there was no official works Lancia team) are semi-works tuners to me, but they're just using the old works cars.

Maybe Prodrive with Porsche and BMW M3 in the late 80's? I don't know if those were more Prodrive tuner projects or with actual manufacturer backing.

[WRCStan]

Ralliart can't be considered a tuner, it was literally the Mitsubishi rally/Dakar division. Yes, it was estabilished by Cowan but then it almost immediately became the official Mitsubishi works team, so in my view it can't be considered a tuner.

I always thought Ralliart was Cowan's business. Just searched now and learned it was Mitsubishi's performance brand from the outset, thanks. Cowan's business is no different to the others you mentioned for me, all doing the same thing. Mitsubishi acquired it after the glory years, in 2003, after which they fell out of love with cars.

[focus206]

I always thought Ralliart was Cowan's business. Just searched now and learned it was Mitsubishi's performance brand from the outset, thanks. Cowan's business is no different to the others you mentioned for me, all doing the same thing. Mitsubishi acquired it after the glory years, in 2003, after which they fell out of love with cars.

The way I see it is: could Prodrive tune/race cars other than Subaru? Yes. M-Sport other than Ford? Yes. MSD other than Hyundai? Yes (I don't know if they did).
But could Ralliart tune/race cars other than Mitsubishi? No, it was Mitsubishi's racing division. It was renamed Ralliart when it became Mitsubishi's division, so if Mitsubishi decided to leave at any point, it would have probably ceased to be called Ralliart and become something like "Andrew Cowan Motorsport". To me Ralliart is (was) just like Citroen Racing or Toyota Team Europe, it just missed the "Mitsubishi" name in it.

[wyler]

But they were developed (same like Suzuki R5) with approval of manufacturer. But in the final it didnt went into official homologation as nobody wanted to pay the fee for it...

I probably remember very wrong, but holzer build the corsa hoping to have an approval from opel -passing into stellantis in the same days- that never came.

[denkimi]

I probably remember very wrong, but holzer build the corsa hoping to have an approval from opel -passing into stellantis in the same days- that never came.
That's the bad part about the whole homologation thing. You can build a great car, trying to introduce another team. But if the manufacturer doesn't feel like it, you can't use it.

[wyler]

That's the bad part about the whole homologation thing. You can build a great car, trying to introduce another team. But if the manufacturer doesn't feel like it, you can't use it.

indeed, but looks like 2027 will be different (?)

[EstWRC]

Canarias road book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbsdainoWI0

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Canarias road book https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbsdainoWI0

We learned absolutely nothing from this road book episode with no interviews with the Hyundai bosses. Are they all like this ?

[skarderud]

Is it anything in this?2631

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[focus206]

Is it anything in this?2631

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Never trust articles that have vague titles and use multiple pictures, some from 10 years ago

[WRCStan]

Is it anything in this?2631

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

That "$1 billion" valuation seems cheap to me.

[saco0o]

Is it anything in this?2631

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

naaaah

[EstWRC]

Portugal road book

https://youtu.be/I2ELk6jHeuY?si=xxI9Hv0HnvWpyj_Z

[Eli]

For now at least, we keep Hyundai for another year: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundais-immediate-wrc-future-looks-secure/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting stats...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GtJ6yrgXoAAbk2K?format=jpg&name=medium

[EstWRC]

It’s called the “Hyundai curse”

[EstWRC]

Fourmaux is too emotional

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/demaison-sees-the-old-ogier-in-fourmaux/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Irish podcast including interview with Tanak's Hyundai engineer Jamie McMillan:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2YwGcbQAxVV0EQXhjORMeG?si=xm34JgTATICXUZIjWnAPbA

[EstWRC]

Sardinia road book

https://youtu.be/eo3lYJt0szw?si=hELxT-VR0aOl8U7O

[trykmann]

Sardinia road book

https://youtu.be/eo3lYJt0szw?si=hELxT-VR0aOl8U7O

Maybe it's just me, but I can't unsee it anymore. For me it has become Neuville's personal vlog and in the end when Tänak was on the podium, then they had to show it for 20 seconds.

In Sardinia there was again an intense fight with Ogier, but it wasn't mentioned in any way.

[Rallyest]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't unsee it anymore. For me it has become Neuville's personal vlog and in the end when Tänak was on the podium, then they had to show it for 20 seconds.

In Sardinia there was again an intense fight with Ogier, but it wasn't mentioned in any way.


Yes, i thought i was the only one who notices it, but didnt pay very much attention to it because of my blue black white glasses :D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai: More petrol N performance cars coming, and they’ll be affordable...

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/hyundai-more-petrol-n-performance-cars-coming-and-theyll-be-affordable

Maybe this will help convince Hyundai HQ to keep them in rallying ?

[EstWRC]

Greece road book

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APlBY-PvToQ

[becher]

Maybe it's just me, but I can't unsee it anymore. For me it has become Neuville's personal vlog and in the end when Tänak was on the podium, then they had to show it for 20 seconds.

In Sardinia there was again an intense fight with Ogier, but it wasn't mentioned in any way.

When you compare Neuville and Tänak in the Dirtfish stuff you see a clear difference. Neuville likes the camera, Tänak doesn't seem to keen to engage in all this media stuff.

[KiwiWRCfan]

Is Seb Marshall still will Hyundai WRT ?

[PLuto]

Is Seb Marshall still will Hyundai WRT ?

For sure he is back with promoter, but I am not sure if he still cooperates also with Hyundai.

[KiwiWRCfan]

thanks Pluto, maybe I will finally get to meet Seb M in person in Chile this year.

[EstWRC]

Estonia road book

https://youtu.be/WL6P-0_s-oY?si=9-HLN1rLMYz-WAmU

[meh]

Some decisions made: https://x.com/HMSGOfficial/status/1950859015451181188 - Hyundai stays for 2026

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Seems the recent results have a lot to do with it. Big thanks mainly to Ott Tanak for this and at least one more Hyundai season in the WRC.

[meh]

Seems the recent results have a lot to do with it. Big thanks mainly to Ott Tanak for this and at least one more Hyundai season in the WRC.

I would like to think that the decision and the process have been more strategic than the impact of recent results.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I would like to think that the decision and the process have been more strategic than the impact of recent results.

Abiteboul:
“This decision reflects the strong momentum we’ve built in recent events..."

[EstWRC]

Neuvilles Finland vlog

https://youtu.be/hOMUUZm9iIY?si=URsq42abocsG2dzh

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC Backstories: Andrea Adamo

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/wrc-backstories-andrea-adamo

A good insight into the man and the reasons for his management style and win-at-all-costs mentality. Also a bit of info on the signing of Ott Tanak from Toyota.

[Eli]

Was sure they were gonna do a double header after Chile but no, Liaison Episode 10, Paraguay: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIYcpYKWRjI

[bandit12]

I am still amazed. Such a big company, an insane bunch of engineers and renowned specialists... And yet they still can’t manage to build a rally car that lasts and can be properly set up.

[deephouse]

At the end Cyril will cry how he want to stay in WRC, but they don't have other choice since they perform so poorly. He is driving that team out of the sport. I think that the whole team lost motivation already.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WEC program impacting WRC performance says Neuville...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wec-program-impacting-hyundais-wrc-performance-neuville/

[tbazsi95]

WEC program impacting WRC performance says Neuville...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wec-program-impacting-hyundais-wrc-performance-neuville/

I think, it will impact the WEC program too, if Hyundai Motorsport uses same resource for WEC and WRC.

I already read lots of facebook and reddit comments about Toyota who participate in WEC, WRC, W2RC etc and they are good. Yes, but Toyota uses different resources for these campaings like WRC Jyväskylä, WEC Köln and Susono, W2RC made by Overdrive Racing etc.

[flat_right]

WEC program impacting WRC performance says Neuville...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wec-program-impacting-hyundais-wrc-performance-neuville/

It is good, if Hyundai's golden boy Neuville says this. Then it has to mean something for them.

[WRCStan]

I think, it will impact the WEC program too, if Hyundai Motorsport uses same resource for WEC and WRC.

I already read lots of facebook and reddit comments about Toyota who participate in WEC, WRC, W2RC etc and they are good. Yes, but Toyota uses different resources for these campaings like WRC Jyväskylä, WEC Köln and Susono, W2RC made by Overdrive Racing etc.

Maybe that will change for next season.

[240RS]

WEC program impacting WRC performance says Neuville...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wec-program-impacting-hyundais-wrc-performance-neuville/

There is something refreshing about FX. He rarely puts a spin and lets the message out with grace and honesty. Two years ago, he spoke openly of the challenges and weaknesses exposed after a brutal Safari. It was as candid as one would possibly expect from a senior team member.

Hyundai's attention is divided and ultimately costly. Many on this forum have speculated as much, but until recently just a matter of debate. I can only hope that the reinvestment in personnel and increased attention as stated will rejuvenate the team. The sport needs it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Indeed it does.

Hopefully Hyundai will have what could be a last shot at the 2026 WRC and give Toyota a run for its money.

[Eli]

Indeed it does.

Hopefully Hyundai will have what could be a last shot at the 2026 WRC and give Toyota a run for its money.

If not, hopefully Lancia will do that in ‘27, I heard from a good friend of mine who just arrived this week from Sardegna that Lancia will be back in ‘27 in the main category, he’s heard that from the Italian media so probably best if we still take it with a grain of salt

[rallyfiend]

There is something refreshing about FX. He rarely puts a spin and lets the message out with grace and honesty. Two years ago, he spoke openly of the challenges and weaknesses exposed after a brutal Safari. It was as candid as one would possibly expect from a senior team member.

Hyundai's attention is divided and ultimately costly. Many on this forum have speculated as much, but until recently just a matter of debate. I can only hope that the reinvestment in personnel and increased attention as stated will rejuvenate the team. The sport needs it.

Rumour has it a new WRC team leader will be announced soon.

Cyril will concentrate on overall management across all programmes, and this new person will be dedicated to WRC. Seems to be a known person in the service park but not from Hyundai.

[EstWRC]

Rumour has it a new WRC team leader will be announced soon.

Cyril will concentrate on overall management across all programmes, and this new person will be dedicated to WRC. Seems to be a known person in the service park but not from Hyundai.

Thierry? :D

[bandit12]

Thierry? :D
Millener. This man is used to putting on a brave face in a bad situation

[deephouse]

Why would he leave long time running M-Sport team (basicaly he is the boss there) for something probably just for one year.

[WRCStan]

Why would he leave long time running M-Sport team (basicaly he is the boss there) for something probably just for one year.

It was a joke.

[rallyfiend]

Probably because he’d earn more in a year at HMSG than he would in 5 at M-Sport.

Same reason so many other staff have made the move….

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fourmaux with 2 stage wins and two slow times in Rally Croatia so far...

https://www.ewrc-results.com/entryinfo/91618-croatia-rally-2025/4520060/

[flat_right]

Fourmaux: We tested and compared, and there is no reason to go to Central European Rally with the 2024 car. We all agree on that.

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-revelation-hyundai-set-for-radical-move/

[EstWRC]

Well that was expected. No surprise

Weird that still no news about Fourmaux and Tanaks contacts. Fourmaux did only a one year deal if I remember right

[flat_right]

Yes, the only contracted Hyundai driver is Thierry. No leaks no nothing.

I also follow F1 and NBA a bit. In both, they have some leaks all the time to keep fans and media around the world talking about the sport. Sometimes I think it is intentional. WRC basically once a month and after the event, there is like a vacuum. Sport is dead. Zero engagement.

[deephouse]

Anouncements in WRC world are usually in late december. And when they are they don't change anything, so don't be surprised. Then we have F1 where things are out publicly 10 years prior.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ott Tänak will run what is effectively a 2024-specification Hyundai i20 N Rally1 in Central European Rally next week, feeling it will be better suited to the low-grip asphalt !

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-chooses-2024-spec-hyundai-for-central-europe/

[flat_right]

Well that was expected. No surprise

(pun intended).

[EstWRC]

Well I’m surprised, Tänak has clearly been better with the 25 machine. I thought he doesn’t want to even hear about the 24 machine.

In Monte he was really struggling with it when it was slippery and unpredictable

[EstWRC]

Andrew Wheatley will make an immediate return to the World Rally Championship service park after joining Hyundai Motorsport as the Korean firm’s WRC sporting director.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wheatley-joins-hyundai-as-wrc-sporting-director/

[rallyfiend]

Rumour has it a new WRC team leader will be announced soon.

Cyril will concentrate on overall management across all programmes, and this new person will be dedicated to WRC. Seems to be a known person in the service park but not from Hyundai.

Seems my sources were indeed well-informed...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"After confirming it will remain in the WRC next season, Hyundai is expected to retain its current three drivers – Thierry Neuville, Ott Tänak and Adrien Fourmaux – with the two world champions understood to be under contract already and the Frenchman reckoned to be on the verge of signing an extension of his current single-season agreement."

[TypeR]

Again new director, still old car and nothing changes :D

[rallyfiend]

Again new director, still old car and nothing changes :D

But likely now clear new direction on the creation of the 2027 car....

[WRCStan]

Clear response to Abiteboul's stupid question about BoP: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-explains-performance-between-wrc27-and-rally2-cars/

A stupid question Abiteboul asked whilst also saying 'we wont develop a WRC27, but we will develop a Rally2 from the ground up'.

It's a problem across the Hyundai brand; they don't know wtf they're doing. No strategy, flip-flopping, too many cooks, not enough broth. New model line launch, new model line cancelled. Commit to this, but don't commit to this.

[rallyfiend]

Cyril is right.

What’s the point of 27 spec cars if they can be so easily balanced with weight against Rally2?

What’s the point of Toyota making a new car 18 months after their Rally2?

Also, how can Mestalon seriously say that BoP in WEC is working well? The only reason the disaster of that is not more talked about is because the FIA literally implemented a rule that says you can be penalised for talking about it…..

[WRCStan]

Cyril is right.

What’s the point of 27 spec cars if they can be so easily balanced with weight against Rally2?

Am I misunderstanding? As I can see it, there will be a weight advantage with a WRC27. Toyota will win every event if they turn up as the only WRC2027 runner. The idea of adding Rally2 is so that the championship continues with manufacturers, not promoter-backed entries.

The manufacturers champ should only permit existing Rally2s and no new ones should be homologated after Lancia.

[flat_right]

Am I misunderstanding? As I can see it, there will be a weight advantage with a WRC27. Toyota will win every event if they turn up as the only WRC2027 runner. The idea of adding Rally2 is so that the championship continues with manufacturers, not promoter-backed entries.

The manufacturers champ should only permit existing Rally2s and no new ones should be homologated after Lancia.

WRC27 will likely be more heavier than Rally2. So how is being heavier a weight advantage?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The weight will be adjusted to give both types of car equal performance. The WRC27 will likely need extra weight added as balast as it's a spaceframe chassis.

[WRCStan]

WRC27 will likely be more heavier than Rally2. So how is being heavier a weight advantage?

According to David Evans? Or based on what parts? I'm not sure Mestelan is saying this. The minimum weight of the new car has been set the same as Rally2 for the short term but in his words it has a slight advantage due to aerodynamics etc. The ballast is already priced in to the minimum weight. He says: "To do that, in what we call short term, it’s to have in the same category Rally2 and the new WRC27 regulation." So when there's enough new cars and manufacturers, they will rid Rally2, ramp up the power and lose the weight for RC1 and keep it the same for RC2.

This whole conversation and two DF articles are shaped around Cyril mouthing nothings at scraping through only 2027 without looking beyond, even if he does say running a Rally2 could be a stepping stone to remaining in WRC long term - with an already out of production car. Hyundai want to add 'technology to the car' because they're not interested in Rally2 powered WRC2027, but they're not willing to build the car that the FIA will allow them to 'add technology to' later on down the line, so they might run a Rally2 powered Rally2 car.

WTAF? I'd have respect for them all if he just cuts the crap and calls it what it is. They've given us some good times, just annoying me now.

[flat_right]

Yes, according to Evans. There was clearly written what I highlighted below, but now reading your comments, I think you are right.

Evans: So, balance of power and equalization of technology are definitely not to be mentioned… but there’s still the matter of the need for a fair fight between a production-based car and the spaceframe chassis. Yes, they’ll have the same power output, suspension and transmission – but WRC27 is very likely to weigh more.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-explains-performance-between-wrc27-and-rally2-cars/

[jonkka]

Amazing that Abiteboul's statement of "we may not build 2027 spec car" hasn't created more stir than this? I only read about it now, three days afterwards and to find more I have to google myself into bleeding Dirtfish (site I avoid like plague otherwise).

[wyler]

Amazing that Abiteboul's statement of "we may not build 2027 spec car" hasn't created more stir than this? I only read about it now, three days afterwards and to find more I have to google myself into bleeding Dirtfish (site I avoid like plague otherwise).

why? nobody is doing a wrc27 other than toyota, and as long as there won't be enough, they ll keep rally2 in the same category. "real" 27 spec may never happen!

[jonkka]

they ll keep rally2 in the same category

Death of WRC is written right there.

[skarderud]

Death of WRC is written right there.Why? Its like Gr.A, a much better championship than Gr.B ever was.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Why? Its like Gr.A, a much better championship than Gr.B ever was.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

sorry but you are comparing apples and sour grapes

[skarderud]

sorry but you are comparing apples and sour grapesHow?
Todays wrc1 compared to wrc2, VS Gr.B compared to Gr.A, how on this earth is that somehow not comparable?

It was a step down, and in my opinion it was much better in every aspect.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[deephouse]

Isn't Rally2 performance compared to old spec WRC if not better (pre 2017).

[denkimi]

Rally2 now is faster than group b or 2016 wrc. We have seen a few years of unprecedented speed since 2017.

[SubaruNorway]

Might be just as fast, but sound and looks are lacking. I can't get much more views on an ERC round compared to a Norwegian rally

[Eli]

https://youtu.be/7WC_WbgjE_o?si=sm3xv6aLNzJPyfBR
CER 2025, Liaison episode 12.

[doubled1978]

Might be just as fast, but sound and looks are lacking. I can't get much more views on an ERC round compared to a Norwegian rally

That ‘should’ be a relatively easy fix though, take the rally2 basis and make them look and sound a bit more exciting.
The cars in the WEC Hypercar class look superficially like LMP1 cars, but are much lower tech, less powerful and considerably cheaper, yet it is thriving at the moment. Hypercar is barely any quicker than a de-restricted LMP2 cars.

[denkimi]

Might be just as fast, but sound and looks are lacking. I can't get much more views on an ERC round compared to a Norwegian rally
https://www.autosport.be/i/800/upload/f257af21456c84d5d6422dae6a6f752d4922e3ec.jpg

Before 2017, wrc's weren't really looking that more agressive than the rc2 cars today. They were just as wide.

And that sound can be fixed easily.

[EstWRC]

Quite a humor guy this new boss

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-we-will-be-wrc-champions-in-2026/

[TypeR]

Hyundai: We will be WRC champions in 2026..



*** (maybe) if Toyota agrees to drive with rally2 cars :D :D

[deephouse]

Champions of whining for sure. And my prediction is that they will still not field more than 3 cars at each event.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quite a humor guy this new boss

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-we-will-be-wrc-champions-in-2026/

That has to be the attitude and I'm sure the one Adamo had when they did win the Championship. There's no point in Hyundai being there if they aren't aiming for the top. The whole Team need to buy in to it and what their hard work is for, otherwise they really dont have a chance of beating Toyota.

[EstWRC]

Hyundai Motorsport has strengthened its resources by adding two valuable members of staff, which will oversee programmes in the World Rally Championship and WEC

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-reveals-key-signings-to-bolster-resources-for-wec-and-wrc-/10773612/

[mknight]

Over 13 rallies (full 2024 season)

2025 Fourmaux: 96 points, 21 stage wins, 9 stages in lead, 3 podiums (3x3.)

2024: Hyundai 3rd car (Sordo,Lappi, Mikkelsen): 117 points, 12 stage wins, 21 stages in lead, 1 win, 2 podiums (2.+3.)

2024 Fourmaux at MSport: 162 points, 11 stage wins, 1 stage in lead, 5 podiums (5x3.)

Would Fourmaux do as bad if he stayed at MSport? Prbly yes cause Sesks also seemed to confirm Puma got slower. Still if you compare expectations from Fourmaux and others at the start of the year this is quite a letdown. Speed was usually decent (no very bad rallies) especially good on tarmac, but seemingly at the expense of consistency.

[TypeR]

Sesks also crashed and broke tyres a lot.. it's not cars fault..

But Fourmaux is good choice for Hyundai.. he has speed and one day wins a rally also

[mknight]

Right now Solberg would be a much better choice.

This year he finally got consistent and also got an actual win. Fourmaux got backwards with this 110% pushes until crash. Specially the stupid mistakes after making a small mistake 1-2 stages before stand out.

Solberg will definitely pick any (small) number of Rally1 starts at Toyota over full season at Hyundai though.

[Morte66]

Fourmaux has been a bit of an idiot at times this year, but I think he's improving.

[AndersX]

Over 13 rallies (full 2024 season)
2025 Fourmaux: 96 points, 21 stage wins, 9 stages in lead, 3 podiums (3x3.)

2024: Hyundai 3rd car (Sordo,Lappi, Mikkelsen): 117 points, 12 stage wins, 21 stages in lead, 1 win, 2 podiums (2.+3.)

2024 Fourmaux at MSport: 162 points, 11 stage wins, 1 stage in lead, 5 podiums (5x3.)

Would Fourmaux do as bad if he stayed at MSport? Prbly yes cause Sesks also seemed to confirm Puma got slower. Still if you compare expectations from Fourmaux and others at the start of the year this is quite a letdown. Speed was usually decent (no very bad rallies) especially good on tarmac, but seemingly at the expense of consistency.

Fourmaux finally got paid. I doubt he had any salary in MSport.

[denkimi]

With tanak retiring, who will be their 3th driver next year? We suddenly go from a lack of seats, to a lack of top drivers.

[Morte66]

With tanak retiring, who will be their 3th driver next year? We suddenly go from a lack of seats, to a lack of top drivers.

Gryazin is crazy enough.

[mknight]

I don't agree there is a lack of top drivers.

Both Solberg and Pajari are ready for full season and have shown they can be competitive even against these retiring guys. So have the 3 drivers kicked at end of last year.

Rossel and Gryazin are the next after that with quite stable performances on all surfaces lately. Though off course they lack top tier experience.

[doubled1978]

It’s a shame he’s stepping back, clearly one of, if not the fastest guy when fully lit. However, it’s a time of change for the WRC, and it free’s up a spot in a decent car for next year for someone new to have a go. I’d prefer they look forward and not backwards with regard to a driver. With Solberg seemingly in at Toyota, Pajari hopefully ready to step on and maybe another now at Hyundai, that’s something to look forward to.
The phone at Hyundai is going to be ringing a lot!

[giu canbera]

Rossel and Gryazin are the next after that with quite stable performances on all surfaces lately. Though off course they lack top tier experience.

Didnt Lancia just signed these two? Ohhh they must be so angry with a possible lost opportunity

[deephouse]

The best solution now would be Sordo, consistent and still fast, he would definetely bring big chunk of manufacturer points. Also it could be Mikkelsen, since he already convince them 2 times, but I still root tht he somehow convince Skoda to enter the big league or at least manufacturer Rally2 cars (without him I think Skoda would not bother, so it would be bad for sport).

[giu canbera]

cough cough ~~ Paddon has been winning NZ, European and Australian titles "with Hyundai" over these last 4 years ~~ cough cough

[macebig]

Solberg is not going to Hyundai. After 2022 they were razor focused on a Yaris seat. There is no way Oliver will turn down that opportunity after all. Especially for a one off with Hyundai.

[BobJones]

Rosell at Lancia, Solberg at Toyota.

The two (arguably) top WRC2 drivers have signed elsewhere. Meanwhile, a two-time champ is off to chase F1 dreams and Tanak steps away.

The options for a third Hyundai driver are slim, even Lappi has committed to the Finnish championship next season. Sordo would be dependable, but a year away from competing on WRC events. Hyundai doesn't really have a pipeline of junior drivers anymore, either.

What a mess!

Maybe just a two car team for '26? That would be my guess right now.

[Morte66]

I wonder whether Hyundai might consider going back to a rotation system for third driver. There isn't a stand out candidate like Fourmaux for them this year, since Solberg looks very Toyota. They could find out for real whether (say) Gryazin and Sesks get along with their car.

[deephouse]

We all totally forgot about Suninen. He is still young and have Rally1 experience (and previous WRC generations aswell), 3 podiums clocked on his belt and he didn't do that bad in i20 Rally1 car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We all totally forgot about Suninen. He is still young and have Rally1 experience (and previous WRC generations aswell), 3 podiums clocked on his belt and he didn't do that bad in i20 Rally1 car.

I was gonna mention him but wasnt sure what he's doing now. Everything you said was in my mind.

[becher]

We all totally forgot about Suninen. He is still young and have Rally1 experience (and previous WRC generations aswell), 3 podiums clocked on his belt and he didn't do that bad in i20 Rally1 car.
I would have agreed but I feel that ship has sailed now.

[deephouse]

So they have this candidates that comply to youth and experience (if we consider Rally1 cars and previous WRC ones):
-Andreas Mikkelsen - 36 years old -> 3 rally wins, 25 podiums, 117 stage wins, drive or 3 top tier teams
-Esapekka Lappi - 34 years old -> 2 rally wins, 15 podiums, 77 stage wins, drive for 4 top tier teams
-Oliver Solberg - 24 years old -> 1 rally win, 1 podium, 9 stage wins, drive for 2 top tier teams
-Takamoto Katsuta - 32 years old -> 7 podiums, 54 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Teemu Suninen - 31 years old -> 3 podiums, 15 stage wins, drive for 2 top tier teams
-Sami Pajari - 23 years old -> 1 podium, 5 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Pierre-Louis Loubet - 28 years old -> 4 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Gregoire Munster - 26 years old -> 2 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Martins Sesks - 26 years old -> 2 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Gus Greensmith - 28 years old -> 2 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Josh McErlean - 26 years old -> 1 stage win, drive for 1 top tier team
-Jari Huttunen - 31 years old -> 1 stage win, drive for 1 top tier team

And 3 extra ones, but only Sordo have Rally1 experience.

-Dani Sordo - 42 years old -> 3 rally wins, 58 podiums, 229 stage wins, drive for 4 top tier teams
-Kris Meeke - 46 years old -> 5 rally wins, 13 podiums, 94 stage wins, drive for 3 top tier teams
-Hayden Paddon - 38 years old -> 1 rally win, 8 podiums, 38 stage wins, drive for 2 top tier teams

[becher]

Katsutas and Lappis stage wins make for an unexpected comparison

[focus206]

So they have this candidates that comply to youth and experience (if we consider Rally1 cars and previous WRC ones):
-Andreas Mikkelsen - 36 years old -> 3 rally wins, 25 podiums, 117 stage wins, drive or 3 top tier teams
-Esapekka Lappi - 34 years old -> 2 rally wins, 15 podiums, 77 stage wins, drive for 4 top tier teams
-Oliver Solberg - 24 years old -> 1 rally win, 1 podium, 9 stage wins, drive for 2 top tier teams
-Takamoto Katsuta - 32 years old -> 7 podiums, 54 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Teemu Suninen - 31 years old -> 3 podiums, 15 stage wins, drive for 2 top tier teams
-Sami Pajari - 23 years old -> 1 podium, 5 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Pierre-Louis Loubet - 28 years old -> 4 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Gregoire Munster - 26 years old -> 2 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Martins Sesks - 26 years old -> 2 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Gus Greensmith - 28 years old -> 2 stage wins, drive for 1 top tier team
-Josh McErlean - 26 years old -> 1 stage win, drive for 1 top tier team
-Jari Huttunen - 31 years old -> 1 stage win, drive for 1 top tier team


Solberg (Toyota), Katsuta (Toyota or nothing), Pajari (Toyota), Loubet (already drove Hyundai, too slow), Munster (too slow), Greensmith (too slow), McErlean (too slow) and Huttunen (inactive since 2023) have 0% chance or reason to be at Hyundai.
I think Hyundai will go for youth driver + experience driver alternating... they could also not bother with a 3rd car, but I imagine they will, at least part season.

[deephouse]

Solberg (Toyota), Katsuta (Toyota or nothing), Pajari (Toyota), Loubet (already drove Hyundai, too slow), Munster (too slow), Greensmith (too slow), McErlean (too slow) and Huttunen (inactive since 2023) have 0% chance or reason to be at Hyundai.
I think Hyundai will go for youth driver + experience driver alternating... they could also not bother with a 3rd car, but I imagine they will, at least part season.

I will edit it tomorrow when the official Toyota driver line up will come out. Also I made it from "best to worst". And add those 3 extra, who are connected to Hyundai. My personal favorite is Paddon, but I think he will not be even considered, because it's Hyundai we are talking about.

[saco0o]

paddon. 100%.

[BobJones]

At least now there's clarity and Hyundai is aiming for a third driver still, phew.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-had-been-working-on-plan-b-for-2026-wrc-driver-line-up-/10775315/

[doubled1978]

At least now there's clarity and Hyundai is aiming for a third driver still, phew.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-had-been-working-on-plan-b-for-2026-wrc-driver-line-up-/10775315/

Bit of a free hit I suppose. It’s the last year of Rally1 so it’s not like they would prepare a young guy for the future, but they may want to take a flyer on someone like Gryazin who could be quick or they could go with the tried and tested options who have some experience of the car like Sordo/Mikkelsen.
I’m sure without Tanak, their championship expectations have been somewhat revised.

[deephouse]

So the pool look like this.
Youth & experience (Rally1+WRC):
-Mikkelsen
-Lappi
-Suninen
-Loubet
-Munster
-Sesks
-Greensmith
-McErlean
-Huttunen

Experience (Rally1+WRC):
-Sordo

Experience (only WRC):
-Meeke
-Paddon

Youth:
-Rossel
-Gryazin
-and all others

[macebig]

They will probably just take Mikkelsen back.

[TypeR]

Why would they bring back some old guys, who haven't driven quite a long time and know they can't set top times with hyundai..

Out of that list maybe Rossel and bulgarian guy Gryazin would bring some new air to the team and show decent results as they are top5 wrc2 drivers at the moment..

[macebig]

Why would they? It's pretty clear 2026 is gonna be their final season. No incentive to build someone up. Maybe if some sponsorship is involved,they may be happy to offset some costs.

[meh]

For young divers, there can be quite a dilemma - why should they join a retiring team for a year and lower their chances to be part of WRC2027 car developments and be part of a team that plans to be part of the championship 2027 onwards? At the same time, if you say "no" to this opportunity, there is no guarantee that you will get a new one.

So I would say it is not that attractive for youngsters (compared to Toyota), but it can be okeish solution for already retired guys "to do one last mission".

[Fiesta]

They will probably just take Mikkelsen back.

Possible because of Neuville. But the fact is, Mikkelsen didn't really bring anything to table in 2024. Lappi at least got good setups for Neuville for high-speed gravel rallies to help him win the championship. But Lappi is now (at least in Finland) Skoda's new face for the public, so I do not think that Lappi will go even part time for Hyundai. Mikkelsen did two (!!) rallies this year. Don't think Hyundai wants him either, should have done more this year.

My guess is something fresh, like Cachón or Armstrong (with the help of their respective Auto federations).

[wyler]

i'd go for sesk (gravel + rally2 tarmac) + sordo

full sesk would also do, keeping it steady on tarmac as the other two are good enough on tarmac.

full paddon as a steady second option. the point is how much you trust in the reliability of fourmeaux. if he can manage less crashes you can go with sesk speed, if u need more consistency you go for a steady paddon.

[Morte66]

i'd go for sesk (gravel + rally2 tarmac) + sordo

full sesk would also do, keeping it steady on tarmac as the other two are good enough on tarmac.

full paddon as a steady second option. the point is how much you trust in the reliability of fourmeaux. if he can manage less crashes you can go with sesk speed, if u need more consistency you go for a steady paddon.

That is what I am thinking too.

[saco0o]

what about brandon semenuk? we dont pay much attention in the american series but this fella looks to be a good one

[wyler]

what about brandon semenuk? we dont pay much attention in the american series but this fella looks to be a good one

no experience of the wrc context, very hard to go for the points in a top team. would need a year - at least- of adaptation in a wrc2/2nd team...

[focus206]

what about brandon semenuk? we dont pay much attention in the american series but this fella looks to be a good one

He has almost no Rally2 experience, nobody would consider him for Rally1. There are plenty of national series heroes around the world that are nowhere on international level. He would be welcome in WRC2 though.

Sordo never got a WRC farewell rally, he would deserve at least one in 2026 (if he cares about it).

[mknight]

Why would they bring back some old guys, who haven't driven quite a long time and know they can't set top times with hyundai..



This comment makes little sense.

The three 2024 Hyundai drivers all won stages, led a rally and got a win and two podiums. In sum they got more points than Fourmaux this season from same number of events and the results are better as well (win, second and third vs third places). Competition is not exactly same this year as last, but it's the only way to compare and the most recent too.

For Paddon he did set top times in WRC Hyundai, but not Rally1. For Meeke we don't know if he can set top times in Hyundai.

[becher]

what about brandon semenuk? we dont pay much attention in the american series but this fella looks to be a good one
The american championship is "village" level.

[dimviii]

Semenuk participated at Finish rally and was very fast among the locals.

[WRCStan]

16 Adrien Fourmaux / Alexandre Coria Hyundai i20 N Rally1 Hyundai Shell Mobis WRT

Source please?

[deephouse]

This comment makes little sense.

The three 2024 Hyundai drivers all won stages, led a rally and got a win and two podiums. In sum they got more points than Fourmaux this season from same number of events and the results are better as well (win, second and third vs third places). Competition is not exactly same this year as last, but it's the only way to compare and the most recent too.

For Paddon he did set top times in WRC Hyundai, but not Rally1. For Meeke we don't know if he can set top times in Hyundai.

What Hyundai's biggest mistake this year is that they didn't bring fourth car to the table and just talk about it constantly. You just can't compete against 5/6 rival cars with 3 and not expecting some of those 3 will not hit the troubles in that fragile car. You just can't. I know it's partly also Toyota a little devil here who keep expanding their lineup, when obviously both other teams isn't capable of running extra cars (I'm mocking out of Hyundai's budget here and taking out M-Sport out of context).

[flat_right]

Source please?

… with Thierry and Adrien, I think we’ve got two drivers now that are able to be consistently on the podium.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundais-options-now-tanak-is-out-for-2026/

[CeskyOndra]

Would love to see Gryazin in Rally1! I think he is capable of driving the top machinery and he is quite an unique driver, which could fit with i20n perfectly.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I would have agreed but I feel that ship has sailed now.

Maybe not.... (Suninen)

https://yle.fi/a/74-20193232?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=ralliradio

[Sal yet again]

The interweb is suggesting that the Russian rallying with a Bulgarian licence is the lead candidate to take the 3rd Hyundai seat in 2026. Seen that on several well connected websites already.

[Co-driven]

I think Hyundai will go for youth driver + experience driver alternating... they could also not bother with a 3rd car, but I imagine they will, at least part season.

My guess is Sordo doing some events (especially now that Portuguese info is saying that he won't run in Portugal again) and some other "young" driver sharing the car. Suninen looks like to be in good position, but I would say that Lindholm should also be included there. Even though he haven't started a rally with the Rally1, he was Hyundai driver up until last year, driving in some tests and shaking down cars before events.

[Jewy46]

Sordo and Jon Armstrong would be a great option IMO. Yes I am biased but Jon has the speed and youth on his side.
He did very well in the ERC this season with an aging Fiesta. He is talented.
Sordo is a safe pair of hands which Hyundai will need to start competing again with Toyota.

[focus206]

My guess is Sordo doing some events (especially now that Portuguese info is saying that he won't run in Portugal again) and some other "young" driver sharing the car. Suninen looks like to be in good position, but I would say that Lindholm should also be included there. Even though he haven't started a rally with the Rally1, he was Hyundai driver up until last year, driving in some tests and shaking down cars before events.

I agree about Sordo and Lindholm. Emil didn't do great with Skoda this year, but Hyundai might be willing to give him a chance.
I see Suninen hasn't done a single rally in 2025, I would be surprised if he gets picked.

[satnav]

I agree about Sordo and Lindholm. Emil didn't do great with Skoda this year, but Hyundai might be willing to give him a chance.
I see Suninen hasn't done a single rally in 2025, I would be surprised if he gets picked.

As it's Hyundai i'll rephrase that for you " I wouldn't be surprised if he gets picked"

[bandit12]

I root for Suninen.

[mknight]

The interweb is suggesting that the Russian rallying with a Bulgarian licence is the lead candidate to take the 3rd Hyundai seat in 2026. Seen that on several well connected websites already.

Found that strange. The PR bomb potential is immense. Just look at the comments under Dirtfish article. On more practical terms he was not even allowed to enter the race in Estonia few years ago.

Are Hyundai willing to risk that for a guy that has won zero WRC2 races this year and has not managed to fight for title in his 6(?) seasons there? No title in ERC either.

[deephouse]

In Hyundi I would rather put caliber like Sordo, Lappi, Mikkelsen, Paddon, Suninen, those who worked previously with the team and are all proven. Gryazin should be driving for M-Sport alongside Sesks/McErlean (or Rossel, if he isn't already in Lancia)

[CeskyOndra]

Sordo and Jon Armstrong would be a great option IMO. Yes I am biased but Jon has the speed and youth on his side.
He did very well in the ERC this season with an aging Fiesta. He is talented.
Sordo is a safe pair of hands which Hyundai will need to start competing again with Toyota.

May Armstrong race for M-sport Rally1 next year? An irish duo?

[WRCStan]

Can I throw Miko Marczyk's name in?

[trykmann]

May Armstrong race for M-sport Rally1 next year? An irish duo?

Could be quite realistic, BRC win should also help.

[deephouse]

What we all want is to M-Sport at least spice things a little bit, even if it's a second slower than multimillion cars on the grid. Having only learning guys in the team isn't helping nobody, neither them, neither the drivers, neither the championship. And I think that right now nobody out of experienced guys who isn't driving will not expect being payed to be in the team. They are not in that position to be that stupid.

[Rallyper]

Could be quite realistic, BRC win should also help.

Please.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

May Armstrong race for M-sport Rally1 next year? An irish duo?

No, paying out for one (McErlean) is enough for the MI Rally Academy.

Armstrong has another Rally2 season ahead in ERC I think.

[pedro16]

Could be quite realistic, BRC win should also help.

Wrong Irishman
Creighton was the one that won the BRC

[trykmann]

Wrong Irishman
Creighton was the one that won the BRC

Sorry, my mistake. He won 1 BRC event only.

[skarderud]

Sordo i dont think he is interessted in full season anymore.

I'm not shure mikkelsen is able to rejoin hyundai eighter.

My guess is rotating drivers, paddon should been given a shot.

If its youngsters, hyundai has a plan to keep on after -26.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[mknight]

Any combination of Sordo, Mikkelsen, Lappi and Rossel looks most likely to me. Out of these only Mikkelsen and Lappi are candidates for full season drives.

Gryazin a riskier option (for multiple reasons) and unlikely as only driver.

Paddon a bit distant bet and again not as only driver due to 7 years out of top class car.

For car sharing I would expect max two drivers.

[trykmann]

Any combination of Sordo, Mikkelsen, Lappi and Rossel looks most likely to me. Out of these only Mikkelsen and Lappi are candidates for full season drives.

Gryazin a riskier option (for multiple reasons) and unlikely as only driver.

Paddon a bit distant bet and again not as only driver due to 7 years out of top class car.

For car sharing I would expect max two drivers.

Plans can always change, but in a recent inverview Lappi said he is going to compete in Finnish local championship and do development for Skoda.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai need to go with the most experienced driver with the Rally1 car. There's no time to learn it and hope to get results at the same time.