Hyundai WRT

[skarderud]

Haha if you count Ogier in there as well one of the four quickest. But to put them all ahead of him in terms of speed is laughable, as is "2-3 drivers on the same level". Norwegian glasses I see. Check the second stage on the 2020 Monte or how many stages Tänak won vs Neuville in the same car.Witch of those drivers is Norwegian?
No, not norwegian glasses, just glasses that tells me Neuville should give up. He don't have "it".

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[focus206]

Witch of those drivers is Norwegian?
No, not norwegian glasses, just glasses that tells me Neuville should give up. He don't have "it".

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Based on what? If Neuville gives up, should also Evans, Katsuta, Loubet, Lappi, Sordo give up? And of course all Rally2 drivers who already showed they don't have "it" in Rally1, such as Mikkelsen, Suninen, Ostberg, Fourmaux, Greensmith etc.
Let's have a 2 drivers championship, only Rovanpera and Tanak. :D
Manufacturers don't reason like you and don't despise Neuville because he steamrolled Mikkelsen as teammate some years ago.

[mknight]

That's actually exactly how Malcolm thinks last few years. Only drivers at MSport are fresh developing drivers that can charge for title in the future (and can be sold to others) or are proven championships contesters, in addition there are paying drivers.

So in his world none of the others are worth driving in WRC. MSport comments mid summer last year said this in fulltext.

I believe that the "2nd rate" drivers are so close that given right car most of them can charge for titles. Like Evans did when he went from 2nd rate to title charger in 2020. In todays MSport he would have been kicked at end of 2018 like Suninen was in 2021.

[becher]

Witch of those drivers is Norwegian?
No, not norwegian glasses, just glasses that tells me Neuville should give up. He don't have "it".

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Let's cancel motorsport than, if one of the top four drivers in his category (who frequently beat the other three contenders, one of which even as team mate) is unworthy of competing, competing in it self is unworthy.

Or is it just that you wanted a certain young driver with a "double citizenship" to do well and now you're bitter that the other guy with glasses trounced him?

[skarderud]

Hahahaha, jeeez, hit the butthurt-button.

No, i dont care who drive in Hyundai, but the guy that had every opportunity for 10 years, the team is working for him, he decides who drive in the team, i really don't understand the unlimited faith Hyundai have in him.
He is probably a f...ing good nr2 driver, or maybe he should try to not be nr1 for a season?
Something is wrong, both in Hyundai and with the person.

The car is "weird" to drive, good drivers can't drive it, and seems its not a problem to get rid of drivers and bring in new ones.

No, its Something weird in Hyundai.

Whoever that get the leftover seat in the team, i'm not sure that is a good move, if he is young and slow, its probably a bad carrieremove, if he is experienced and slow, his carriere is over.

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[denkimi]

It's a lot weirder that neuville has stayed with Hyundai for so long when they have only once given him a car that could win a championship.

Had he gone to toyota perphaps he could have been multiple world champion.

[focus206]

Hahahaha, jeeez, hit the butthurt-button.

No, i dont care who drive in Hyundai, but the guy that had every opportunity for 10 years, the team is working for him, he decides who drive in the team, i really don't understand the unlimited faith Hyundai have in him.
He is probably a f...ing good nr2 driver, or maybe he should try to not be nr1 for a season?
Something is wrong, both in Hyundai and with the person.

The car is "weird" to drive, good drivers can't drive it, and seems its not a problem to get rid of drivers and bring in new ones.

No, its Something weird in Hyundai.

Whoever that get the leftover seat in the team, i'm not sure that is a good move, if he is young and slow, its probably a bad carrieremove, if he is experienced and slow, his carriere is over.

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When someone calls you out on your bias they're butthurt? Typical thing to say when one is trying to defend what's not possible to defend :D :D
"the guy that had every opportunity for 10 years" = Not even close to 10 years, unless you think someone could have beat the Polo and the Yaris while driving a Hyundai?
"the team is working for him" = the team has let him and its other drivers down plenty of times with amateur work.
"he decides who drive in the team" = made up, unless you can bring some proofs that Neuville hires and fires teammates?
"i really don't understand the unlimited faith Hyundai have in him" = That's a you problem. Who should they drive with, Lappi as 1st driver? Good luck with that. Plenty of times people have witnessed Hyundai breaking down or hindering their drivers with amateur level gremlins, with fans wondering why Neuville didn't get sick of them. By your logic, instead, Hyundai should be sick of him :D

[manthey]

The car is "weird" to drive, good drivers can't drive it, and seems its not a problem to get rid of drivers and bring in new ones.


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Loeb and Tanak had both driving issues

Neuville uses a lot the handbrake to turn the car

[trykmann]

Neuville is not a world champion due his own driving mistakes. Ofcourse he has had technical problems, but a lot rallies have been lost by himself. Lets think about Ypres 2022 or 2023 Croatia



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[meh]

Gentelmens, rallying is full of "what ifs", which makes it painful and entertaining at the same time, but to search the black-and-white truth, does Neuville has "it" or not, is more like a religious war here. You just believe it or not.

And if you believe he does not have the "it", then even when Neuville wins the title, it's still possible to say "he only won because of X had too many technical problems with cars etc".

But if you enjoy this religious war, keep going.. :)

[Eli]

Neuville is not a world champion due his own driving mistakes. Ofcourse he has had technical problems, but a lot rallies have been lost by himself. Lets think about Ypres 2022 or 2023 Croatia



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How about Monte-Carlo & Sweden 2017 when he was leading comfortably and crashed out in both? Germany that year? Catalunya? Toyota were still fresh and that Hyundai was fast (& relatively reliable) straight out of the box and even the great Ogier only managed to win twice that year, half the times Neuville had won. I’m not saying he’s had his fair share of issues but the fact that he’s always struggled in Finland with his car tells you something and I’m sorry someone mentioned how many times he’s beaten Tänak in the same car, let’s not forget that he developed that car from scratch and Ott came during covid year, last year on equal terms he beat Neuville fair and square, even on his own back yard (due to Neuville’s mistake). Now, how many times has Neuville come close to Tänak or even Evans for that matter in Finland or Estonia? As someone earlier mentioned it, I’m sorry but yes, he doesn’t have it, does it mean he should retire? No, he’s one of the contributing factors for making the championship interesting, however IMHO Hyundai should’ve given him the boot last year, and stick with Ott instead, but that ship has sailed.

[CeskyOndra]

Neuville could be champion in 2018, when he was leading rally Turkey and leading a Championship, but he had to retire due to technical issue..

[AndyRAC]

A pity none of the Hyundai drivers have shown much interest in doing the N24 with Hyundai; Jari-Matti did it in a Focus ST back in the late 00s.

[rallyfiend]

A pity none of the Hyundai drivers have shown much interest in doing the N24 with Hyundai; Jari-Matti did it in a Focus ST back in the late 00s.

They probably wanted more money....

[focus206]

Neuville is not a world champion due his own driving mistakes. Ofcourse he has had technical problems, but a lot rallies have been lost by himself. Lets think about Ypres 2022 or 2023 Croatia



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You chose 2 examples in which if he had won, nothing would have changed, since he was not in the fight for the championship (I doubt anyone will be in the fight against Kalle for long this year). Also, imagine Hyundai being mad for Ypres 2022 after causing Neuville and Tanak to retire or lose minutes for an infinite amount of gremlins for half a season :D
The only serious mistakes that costed him the championships were in 2017. In 2018, the biggest blow was the defective damper his car had in Turkey, which could have been a crucial win.

[denkimi]

Neuville could be champion in 2018, when he was leading rally Turkey and leading a Championship, but he had to retire due to technical issue..
His best chance was 2017. He should have been champion then but he blew it by crashing in the first 2 rallies while having no reason to push.

But some people seem to forget that he's 5 times vice champion, 4 times behing ogier. Anyone claiming he is not in the top 3 is just not seeing clearly.

[mknight]

You chose 2 examples in which if he had won, nothing would have changed, since he was not in the fight for the championship (I doubt anyone will be in the fight against Kalle for long this year). Also, imagine Hyundai being mad for Ypres 2022 after causing Neuville and Tanak to retire or lose minutes for an infinite amount of gremlins for half a season :D
The only serious mistakes that costed him the championships were in 2017. In 2018, the biggest blow was the defective damper his car had in Turkey, which could have been a crucial win.


2018 Turkey was indeed a technical issue, caused by mechanic not doing his job properly in service. But then in Australia, still in the title fight, he made mistake and lost his chance already on SS6.

[focus206]

2018 Turkey was indeed a technical issue, caused by mechanic not doing his job properly in service. But then in Australia, still in the title fight, he made mistake and lost his chance already on SS6.

Every driver makes mistakes during the season, even Ogier that year was off road in Portugal and Turkey (and the timecard stuff in Sardegna). The point some people are making here, is that Neuville apparently blew so many chances for the championship for driving mistakes, when only in 2017 you can pinpoint what made him lose the title - in retrospect, since the biggest mistakes were in the first 2 rallies.
I'd say the biggest "lost championship" moment belongs to Evans in Monza 2020 while driving the best car, should he be booted as well? Don't think so.

[AnttiL]

In 2018 Neuville went off in Monte, Finland, Wales and Australia.

[trykmann]

You chose 2 examples in which if he had won, nothing would have changed, since he was not in the fight for the championship (I doubt anyone will be in the fight against Kalle for long this year). Also, imagine Hyundai being mad for Ypres 2022 after causing Neuville and Tanak to retire or lose minutes for an infinite amount of gremlins for half a season :D
The only serious mistakes that costed him the championships were in 2017. In 2018, the biggest blow was the defective damper his car had in Turkey, which could have been a crucial win.Yes, these were the latest ones and did not affect the championship standings.

Let's take a look at 2019 season then. The crashes in Chile and Turkey did not help at all with the competiton against Tänak.

When you are driving against champions like Ogier, then you just can't afford these kind of mistakes. Ogier made usually one mistake per season.

I like to see him in the championship and he is fast as the other best drivers. He just too often makes costly mistakes and looses valuable points.


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[focus206]

Yes, these were the latest ones and did not affect the championship standings.

Let's take a look at 2019 season then. The crashes in Chile and Turkey did not help at all with the competiton against Tänak.

When you are driving against champions like Ogier, then you just can't afford these kind of mistakes. Ogier made usually one mistake per season.

I like to see him in the championship and he is fast as the other best drivers. He just too often makes costly mistakes and looses valuable points.


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Yes, Neuville makes more mistakes than Ogier and Tanak, and that's why they're world champions. Point is: when is that Neuville was served the championship on a silver platter and blew these many great chances, such is the narrative? In 2018 and 2019 he performed a bit worse than each world champion and had a less reliable car on average. One can say 2017, even if the whole championship was sort of a comeback after the first 2 rounds.
After that we have 2020-2021-2022-2023 in which Hyundai was sub-par and the infinite amount of technical troubles prevented even champion Tanak to be a serious challenge for the title. (2020 manufacturer title only the gods know how Hyundai won it, with the silly 3 point scoring drivers rule).
I think Hyundai are aware of their level. I don't see why they would blame a driver for mistakes he did 6 years ago, when it's 4 seasons the car is slower and less reliable than Toyota.

[becher]

It's a bit of a pointless discussion as this forum gas it's allegiances and they are certainly not with Neuville. But I must say<, I always wonder how useless legends of the sport like Munari, Biasion, Alen, McRea, Solberg, Grönholm or even Latvala were. After all, all of them "just" won between 10 and 30 rallies but had fluctuating form or were to accident prone.

[denkimi]

somewhat related but not quite: do some people think that either tanak or rovanpera would have been champion if they would have had a full season doing ogier as teammate?

[becher]

somewhat related but not quite: do some people think that either tanak or rovanpera would have been champion if they would have had a full season doing ogier as teammate?
Rovanperä yes.

[EstWRC]

somewhat related but not quite: do some people think that either tanak or rovanpera would have been champion if they would have had a full season doing ogier as teammate?

Both yes

[doubled1978]

somewhat related but not quite: do some people think that either tanak or rovanpera would have been champion if they would have had a full season doing ogier as teammate?

Difficult to say, but they are the two in recent history who could potentially beat Ogier over a season in the same car.
I don’t underestimate just how good Ogier is though, both Tanak & Rovanpera have the speed, but Ogier’s consistency is remarkable and very difficult to match.
I would say possible, but very difficult for both.

[denkimi]

ogier has done 3 rallies this year and only a penalty+flat tyre in croatia have stopped him from winning them all 3. ogier and tanak were in the same team in 2017 and ogier had 42 points more at the end of the year.

i can understand some people are really big fans but let's be factual. if ogier was in the toyota in 2019 tanak would almost certain not have been champion. and if ogier did a full season in 2022, rovanpera would most likely also not have been champion.

[bomber21]

somewhat related but not quite: do some people think that either tanak or rovanpera would have been champion if they would have had a full season doing ogier as teammate?
No, I believe Ogier would be the champ.

[EstWRC]

ogier has done 3 rallies this year and only a penalty+flat tyre in croatia have stopped him from winning them all 3. ogier and tanak were in the same team in 2017 and ogier had 42 points more at the end of the year.

i can understand some people are really big fans but let's be factual. if ogier was in the toyota in 2019 tanak would almost certain not have been champion. and if ogier did a full season in 2022, rovanpera would most likely also not have been champion.


how can you be factual about things which didn’t happen?

Was, would, almost, likely - but didn’t happen

[cali]

Ogier has had significant starting position advantage + Monte in his backyard. A lot of people seem to forget or miscalculate about this.

For me it is very interesting to see if he can win Championship this year with mathematics alone which means calculating in which events to start and which to pass to gain again significant advantage in starting positions. Also a lot of team/drivers help him with amateurish mistakes as well which ofc tells a lot about Ogier's greatness but it has many nuances for this season so you can't make any assumptions about speed just looking at the standings.

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai should bring in Mikkelsen after they suddenly stopped answering his texts on the verge of a deal and hired Breen. He deserves another shot after doing all he can to prove himself in Rally2 cars.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-doesnt-owe-me-a-drive-mikkelsen/

[mknight]

The interesting part is that he says it's new management.
Sure there was change with Moncet and Abiteboul, but last year it Moncet claim that he did not decide what drivers are getting signed.
Does this mean there also was change on other positions?

This would also imply that Solberg has better chance than expected. He is the most promising of the "non-experienced" (Mikkelsen, Suninen and Greensmith are experienced), but even if given the opportunity would it be good idea for him to jump mid-season when he has a good shot at title? Given previous experience I would say no, now with Skoda he finally seems to be developing after 2 years of stagnation. If he gets title or closely loses it at the end of the year I doubt he will have issues finding employment.

[Norm75]

The interesting part is that he says it's new management.
Sure there was change with Moncet and Abiteboul, but last year it Moncet claim that he did not decide what drivers are getting signed.
Does this mean there also was change on other positions?

This would also imply that Solberg has better chance than expected. He is the most promising of the "non-experienced" (Mikkelsen, Suninen and Greensmith are experienced), but even if given the opportunity would it be good idea for him to jump mid-season when he has a good shot at title? Given previous experience I would say no, now with Skoda he finally seems to be developing after 2 years of stagnation. If he gets title or closely loses it at the end of the year I doubt he will have issues finding employment.
I’m not sure I agree with your comments re Solberg. I wouldn’t be surprised if jumped at the chance to drive the Hyundai again. Given the fact he threw away the win in Portugal to perform crowd pleasing donuts gives me the impression it is about more than the wrc2 title he cares about, and from comments Tanak made about Hyundai not supporting Oliver enough last season he might see it as a better opportunity with different management second time around.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/suninen-emerging-as-frontrunner-for-hyundai-drive/

[becher]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/suninen-emerging-as-frontrunner-for-hyundai-drive/

Good choice for them and I'd be happy for Suninen, I still think he has quite a lot potential.

[mknight]

At this point I don't expect big changes in Suninens performance, he has been around for quite long to show what his level is. So does not fit the "developing over experience" narrative that Hyundai boss has been pushing.

But certainly he is one of the two drivers that can step in right now and hope for results around podium on selected rallies.

[TypeR]

If Suninen doesn't get a chance now, I can't see it happening at all..

It would also be disrespectful to him(by Hyundai) for ,,wasting'' 2-3 years for only doing wrc2 rallies(basically only as much as required).. Hopefully gets to show his abilities in Estonia/Finland, although it would be difficult with so few experience in rally1 car..

[doubled1978]

I can’t make a case for anyone else over him really. For me he deserves the chance as much as anyone.

[Danny0405]

Well, Portugal has proven Sordo is still their best shot for all rallies except Estonia-Finland (over all the other names).
Considering his experience with the car and in Rally1 + his reliability + good road position.

So at the moment, the best they can find is someone for a small stint in Estonia-Finland and then, depending on the results, in Chile and Japan perhaps.
Suninen sounds the best shot for Estonia-Finland for multiple reasons (has done both rallies last 2 years, some testing with the car, back-to-back winner in Finland in RC2, close from Mikkelsen in Estonia before technical issue in last stage). And in case of, he knows Chile and Japan.
Only thing is I would have expected Hyundai to give this driver a stint in Safari (a rally where keeping safe can bring a result) before Estonia-Finland ‘cause it will be complicated to perform in fast gravel rallies with so little experience; we could expect a national rally at least (Itaralli mid-June in Finnish championship?)

And as evoked before, probably Paddon deserves the spot to replace him in Rally2 in Estonia-Finland.

Honestly, I’m much more skeptical about Mikkelsen for a first small stint Estonia-Finland (would have agreed for a mid-season but here, sounds more complicated).

[RS]

Give it to Suninen for at least Estonia-Finland and if he doesn’t perform then think of an alternative plan for next year. Too soon for Solberg to go back, we don’t want to make the same mistake again.

[logic]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/demaison-joins-hyundai-as-technical-director/

[dimviii]

good news!

[Gonek]

„He will work alongside fellow engineering giant of the sport Christian Loriaux.

DirtFish understands Demaison will take the title of technical director, while Loriaux works as WRC technical manager„

What a joke! For what they keep Loriaux? He designed the car which is undriveable. Drivers complain about car behaviour and lack of confidence and they still what to keep him? It’s really interesting…

[rallyfiend]

„He will work alongside fellow engineering giant of the sport Christian Loriaux.

DirtFish understands Demaison will take the title of technical director, while Loriaux works as WRC technical manager„

What a joke! For what they keep Loriaux? He designed the car which is undriveable. Drivers complain about car behaviour and lack of confidence and they still what to keep him? It’s really interesting…

Did Loriaux design the car? I thought he was brought in late in the process to FIX the original car.... He was contracted from M-Sport as a fixer, not the main designer....

[Gonek]

It is a question if he is a fixer or destroyer of initial car? This we will never know because initial car was never competing on the stages. Maybe it was better than what they have now? Who knows? He had a lot if time to improve the current car and we don‘t see any improvements. I don’t remeber if Neuville was telling officially that he had no confidence with the previous generation car. That one has been developed without Loriaux and was quite competitive wining two constructor‘s championships. Since Loriaux is there, Hyunday is nowhere…

[AnttiL]

It is a question if he is a fixer or destroyer of initial car? This we will never know because initial car was never competing on the stages. Maybe it was better than what they have now? Who knows? He had a lot if time to improve the current car and we don‘t see any improvements. I don’t remeber if Neuville was telling officially that he had no confidence with the previous generation car. That one has been developed without Loriaux and was quite competitive wining two constructor‘s championships. Since Loriaux is there, Hyunday is nowhere…

At least on testing videos it looked horrible. Also, a person like Loriaux doesn't decide alone which car they send to homologation. They could have sent the original one if it was better than the second edition.

[seb_sh]

I think this needs to be looked at in context of Hyundai going to WEC, they will need a bigger structure for that.

On the drivers side they know Suninen quite well, so if they rate him he should be am easy choice no? Last year they were ready to get Mikkelsen and jumped on Lappi when he was available. So maybe Suninen is not their first choice.

[manthey]

I think this needs to be looked at in context of Hyundai going to WEC, they will need a bigger structure for that.

.

Absolutely, I thought the same thing and look at the words of Cyril, he hinted about a more complete structure

[AnttiL]

So, who is it?

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1661622010198335488

[Eli]

So, who is it?

https://twitter.com/MiikaWuorela/status/1661622010198335488

If I had to guess I’d say Suninen, wish it would be Paddon tbh, but he was just now testing in Sardegna with the i20N Rally 2 car, guess we’ll find out over the weekend.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/joko-sopimus-on-taskussa-teemu-suninen-hyppasi-rally1-auton-rattiin-salatestissa/

Well Suninen was testing the car today.

[Eli]

And dirtfish confirms it:https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/suninen-tests-hyundai-rally1-car/

[skarderud]

Quite special that Andreas Mikkelsen is named "Driver-Hyundai Motorsport" at DF's highlights from Mythical Rally?
Should be "Ex-hyundai", or more rightly "Škoda".https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230528/291b8f784cbdd50774202423dcc60337.jpg

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[AnttiL]

Yes, very important

[seb_sh]

DF usually know things in advance but usually wait for official announcement but have 5 stories ready. did they slip up? There was no Hyundai driver at Mythical Cars Rally afaik so it's unlikely to be a "copy paste" error with the graphic.

[seb_sh]

This could be what Hyundai is interested in: https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/le-mans-wants-hydrogen-only-top-class-by-2030/10474311/

[becher]

This could be what Hyundai is interested in: https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/le-mans-wants-hydrogen-only-top-class-by-2030/10474311/
This exactly what Hyundai is interested in, even when they planned to introduce a H class in 2025 there was lots of talk in the sportscar community about Hyundai.

[Sergiow]

This could be what Hyundai is interested in: https://www.motorsport.com/lemans/news/le-mans-wants-hydrogen-only-top-class-by-2030/10474311/

Now this might be something interesting! Especially if you feedback to that tweet from Thierry Neuville:

https://www.rallyssimo.it/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/neuville-fia-wrc.png

If you check this link, there are currently 4 manufacturers in the world which are working on Hydrogen cars. And at least 2 of those 4 are currently participating in WRC ...
https://www.fastechus.com/blog/vehicle-manufacturers-working-on-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles

So if WRC will not go Hydrogen in the future, Hyundai (and possible Toyota) might jump to this all Hydrogen WEC class

[AndyRAC]

If you want to use/ demonstrate new technology in motorsport, then the WEC is the series to go to......

[seb_sh]

If you want to use/ demonstrate new technology in motorsport, then the WEC is the series to go to......

Always has been...

[becher]

If you want to use/ demonstrate new technology in motorsport, then the WEC is the series to go to......
You sure? LMDh is a tech free zone where everything bar the aero (and even that is limited due to the use of third party customer chassis) and ICE (and the ICE is also quite "boring" as the rules are so thight that there is no incentive to do much) is spec.

As for LMH, it is also very much dumbed down, with aero efficiency from the early nineties, severely limited electric propulsion (only active at very high speeds, no "additional" power, just substituting 100 ICE horsepower with 100 electric horsepower for example) and ICE are also fairly simple as the rules are run what you brung and therefore don't require something with huge power potential or extraordinary efficiency.

[1988senna]

If I'm the boss of Hyundai ,I'll not consider suninen,Did he have any better performance than Mikklesen or Oliver in this year WRC2 ?
Suninen used to be a talent but now he just become more and more mediocre, Anyone agree?

[mknight]

In the past 2 years of Rally2 starts the only rally where Suninen has been clearly fastest ( of those that were there) is Finland. Which is one of the two rallies that Hyundai definitely needs to fill this year. So that alone puts Suninen into consideration. His pace on other rallies doesn't stand out.

So it depends on what Hyundais plans are beyond this year. The key to that is Sordo. If they plan to run Sordo for most rallies next year Suninen can fill those 2-3 fast ones. If Sordo should run less then Mikkelsen is much more universal choice for a stable points scorer. Until Portugal I would bet Sordo was on the way out but in Portugal he was back to old form, didn't confirm it here though.


Solberg is this year much more stable with great drives in Sweden and Portugal. Every other rally is still a mess with issues every second stage though (here in Sardinia, Croatia, Monte..). Wait at least until after this season.

Pajari is next potential candidate but he is at least 1,5 season away.

Lindholm (who was originally in the rumors) imo just confirms this year how undeserved his last years title was.

[Rallyest]

Very bittersweet second place for Lappi, i dont know if i was the only one but WRC commentators sure ignored the sentence and turned it as he is a team player, but it is the 1-2-3 last year again when they didnt let Ott win again points wise it would have not made any difference, but when they asked Lappi "you can go and win the next one" and he answered " depends who is behind" i understand he is first year in this team and whatnot, but i mean i hoped a little bit with cyril they have a little more inside competition allowed in the first half/almost middle of the season, but clearly Thierry is the team boss still, for me it is harder and harder to like the guy, at the start of the season i was hoping if not Ott, then Thierry would win the championship, but it is so hard to root for a guy who has to let people slow down to win, since clearly Lappi was a lot quicker than him from the first stage. I guess Lappis only hope and plan should be to wait out Neuvilles retirement or maybe( long shot i know) they will finally sack him, probably not when they win Manu championship, but i hope Toyota will dominate it and Ott(another long shot) or Kalle takes the Driver championship win, maybe the team then will understand and reconsider the years wasted for the guy. My full honest opinion and you dont have to agree, and im welcome to start a discussion with anyone who disagrees with me, that is what keeps this forum alive

[skarderud]

Very bittersweet second place for Lappi, i dont know if i was the only one but WRC commentators sure ignored the sentence and turned it as he is a team player, but it is the 1-2-3 last year again when they didnt let Ott win again points wise it would have not made any difference, but when they asked Lappi "you can go and win the next one" and he answered " depends who is behind" i understand he is first year in this team and whatnot, but i mean i hoped a little bit with cyril they have a little more inside competition allowed in the first half/almost middle of the season, but clearly Thierry is the team boss still, for me it is harder and harder to like the guy, at the start of the season i was hoping if not Ott, then Thierry would win the championship, but it is so hard to root for a guy who has to let people slow down to win, since clearly Lappi was a lot quicker than him from the first stage. I guess Lappis only hope and plan should be to wait out Neuvilles retirement or maybe( long shot i know) they will finally sack him, probably not when they win Manu championship, but i hope Toyota will dominate it and Ott(another long shot) or Kalle takes the Driver championship win, maybe the team then will understand and reconsider the years wasted for the guy. My full honest opinion and you dont have to agree, and im welcome to start a discussion with anyone who disagrees with me, that is what keeps this forum aliveI agree!

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[CeskyOndra]

I like Thierry and it's a shame that Esapekka had to slow down. I think that Cyril is a big strategy man (in F1 there is strategy really important) and he is doing this rules, not just Thierry. So I quite agree with u, but not really. Otherwise, I think that this weekend it was a clever decision to take it easy in these tricky conditions.. Now hoping that at least Ott will win the championship.

[focus206]

since clearly Lappi was a lot quicker than him from the first stage.

What? Maybe you should go and check the times and the standings.
Gap between Lappi and Neuville after day 1: 18 seconds.
Gap between Lappi and Neuville before Ogier crashed out: 3 seconds.

Among all the times Sordo had to play team games and slow down, you pick the time Lappi just backed off to preserve Hyundai 1-2? What did you expect them to do? Sure, I could say "let them fight, Rovanpera is going to easily win the championship anyway", but a team boss doesn't reason that why.


maybe the team then will understand and reconsider the years wasted for the guy.

Let's ignore that 6-7 out of 10 years the car was falling to pieces on road sections or slower than Polo / Yaris. What would you have done? Apart from the easy answer "hire Ogier / Rovanpera", the best of the lot that cannot always be hired, they hired world champion Tanak, who wasn't a serious title challenger for 3 years with Hyundai. Did they waste 3 years with Tanak? If I were to follow your logic I'd say yes, but I say no. When your car and team is not up to par, what the drivers do becomes much less relevant.
And what would you do now? Try to push Lappi for the title? When has he ever shown to be fast and consistent enough to be a challenger?
If he fights for the win in Estonia and Finland and keeps performing good, one day he might be one. Right now, not yet.

[becher]

Very bittersweet second place for Lappi, i dont know if i was the only one but WRC commentators sure ignored the sentence and turned it as he is a team player, but it is the 1-2-3 last year again when they didnt let Ott win again points wise it would have not made any difference, but when they asked Lappi "you can go and win the next one" and he answered " depends who is behind" i understand he is first year in this team and whatnot, but i mean i hoped a little bit with cyril they have a little more inside competition allowed in the first half/almost middle of the season, but clearly Thierry is the team boss still, for me it is harder and harder to like the guy, at the start of the season i was hoping if not Ott, then Thierry would win the championship, but it is so hard to root for a guy who has to let people slow down to win, since clearly Lappi was a lot quicker than him from the first stage. I guess Lappis only hope and plan should be to wait out Neuvilles retirement or maybe( long shot i know) they will finally sack him, probably not when they win Manu championship, but i hope Toyota will dominate it and Ott(another long shot) or Kalle takes the Driver championship win, maybe the team then will understand and reconsider the years wasted for the guy. My full honest opinion and you dont have to agree, and im welcome to start a discussion with anyone who disagrees with me, that is what keeps this forum alive

To compare Tänak not being given the win and Lappi slowing down to benefit Neuville is ridiculous.

[meh]

As a fan I don't like those team orders, but on the other hand - I understand them and there are no surprises. It was clear and said out lout - Neuville is the priority for the team.

At the time when Lappi signed - what was his choices? To get one of 6 full-time driver seat or do some rallies when Ogier does not have mood to do it. When signing, he was not probably in position to ask equal position in the team. I think this is the season to earn it and he is doing it well.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FywMSD7XsAAOnmt?format=jpg&name=medium

[meh]

Hyundai is now more Finnish team than Toyota ;)

[mknight]

Suninen is a good choice for these two rallies coming right now. Mikkelsen would be better if longer/bigger commitment was planned. Guess they will try Suninen and see how it goes. (And see what Sordo does).

Lindholm is the suprising choice here. Specially since I though Skoda was supporting him more this year as a champion and he was one of the development drivers for the new car. Instead we have reigning WRC2 champ switching mid season. Furthermore Lindholm is anything but convincing this year. As a younger prospect Pajari would be much better choice. But it might be that Solberg or Pajari simply didn't want to jump to Hyundai mid-season.

[Paul Hudson]

Leaves room at Skoda for Mikkelson to complete the rest of the year with Tocksport with funding from Skoda ?

[meh]

Suninen is a good choice for these two rallies coming right now. Mikkelsen would be better if longer/bigger commitment was planned. Guess they will try Suninen and see how it goes. (And see what Sordo does).

Lindholm is the suprising choice here. Specially since I though Skoda was supporting him more this year as a champion and he was one of the development drivers for the new car. Instead we have reigning WRC2 champ switching mid season. Furthermore Lindholm is anything but convincing this year. As a younger prospect Pajari would be much better choice. But it might be that Solberg or Pajari simply didn't want to jump to Hyundai mid-season.

It's all abour Reeta delivering pace-notes :)

[Allez Andruet]

It took Hyundai almost 10 full seasons in the WRC to realize the eternal truth of rallying; if you want to win, hire a Finn.

On a bit more serious note, what a make or break for Suninen this is. The potential and talent is unquestioned, but can it be materialized just like that after having been out of a top class car (in competition) for 19 months? In a way it feels like it's 2023, not 1994 when Tommi Mäkinen dominated the 1000 Lakes in his first 4WD start of the season in WRC. But if Suninen can keep it together it wouldn't be that big of a surprise if it ends up being 1994 all over again.

[becher]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FywMSD7XsAAOnmt?format=jpg&name=medium

Right decision in my opinion, and also more interesting one for fans than Mikkelsen.

[Danny0405]

Well, as already evoked, Suninen is the most logical for that type of 1st stint Estonia-Finland (and potentially further depending on his results there).
However, I would have found more logical to give him a rally before Estonia because starting in Estonia with no official rally in the car... well sounds complicated on that type of road.
And no rally in Finnish or Estonian championship to occur before this rally now.

For Lindholm, well, difficult to say but his start of season was average ... indeed, maybe Skoda lets him go because they want Mikkelsen back.

[ferrial]

Well, as already evoked, Suninen is the most logical for that type of 1st stint Estonia-Finland (and potentially further depending on his results there).
However, I would have found more logical to give him a rally before Estonia because starting in Estonia with no official rally in the car... well sounds complicated on that type of road.
And no rally in Finnish or Estonian championship to occur before this rally now.

For Lindholm, well, difficult to say but his start of season was average ... indeed, maybe Skoda lets him go because they want Mikkelsen back.

On 8th of July, one day rally of South-Estonia is going to be held to give drivers an opportunity to test before Rally Estonia. Rally1 cars expected to participate.
https://ralli.ee/forus-louna-eesti-ralli-starti-oodatakse-maailma-parimaid-rallimehi/

[mknight]

Right decision in my opinion, and also more interesting one for fans than Mikkelsen.
The crowds were going wild when Suninen drove the i20 for the one-off in Monza at the end of 2021 ;)

[becher]

The crowds were going wild when Suninen drove the i20 for the one-off in Monza at the end of 2021 ;)
Ohh come on don't act daft...

We all know what to expect from Mikkelsen, Suninen might surprise ala 2017 Finland or disappoint, which I consider more interesting.

[EstWRC]

On 8th of July, one day rally of South-Estonia is going to be held to give drivers an opportunity to test before Rally Estonia. Rally1 cars expected to participate.
https://ralli.ee/forus-louna-eesti-ralli-starti-oodatakse-maailma-parimaid-rallimehi/

Tänak and Järveoja are participating

[RS]

Leaves room at Skoda for Mikkelson to complete the rest of the year with Tocksport with funding from Skoda ?

Maybe. If they are looking for someone to replace Lindholm for Finland and Estonia then Sesks would be interesting to see.

[seb_sh]

heh so the rumors were true or partially true.

It makes sense to put Suninen in the car. If they didn't give him the chance now it would look quite bad for him. Then they needed someone to drive in WRC2 so getting the current champion also makes sense even if his season is not spectacular.

Overall sensible and logical decisions but we'll see how it turns out in practice.

[mknight]

Ohh come on don't act daft...

We all know what to expect from Mikkelsen, Suninen might surprise ala 2017 Finland or disappoint, which I consider more interesting.
In Finland Mikkelsen would likely control the result somewhere around 5th(depending on the dropouts).
With Suninen you can get a crash in first stage (2x in last season at MSport) or a crash later while leading (Sweden 2019).

Jokes aside I wonder what (serious) people really expect from Suninen. Imo dreams of fighting for win or a podium (without many retirements) are completely unrealistic. First start in Rally1 on these kinds of rallies a realistic goal is beating Loubet and Katsuta in Estonia and those + Neuville in Finland. Note that Suninen has pretty bad history in Estonia, including being slower than Greensmith.

Further on my point is that Mikkelsen can get some stunning times on specific rallies, specially in slippery conditions (Estonia and Acropolis PS last year, Monte and Monza basically every year he started). He also has rallies where he is completely off the pace (Rome 2021, Catalunya 2018). Suninen has that one stage on Sardinia a few years back.
So over more rallies I fail to see how another "mediocre" Fin adds to the excitement.

[becher]

In Finland Mikkelsen would likely control the result somewhere around 5th(depending on the dropouts).
With Suninen you can get a crash in first stage (2x in last season at MSport) or a crash later while leading (Sweden 2019).

Jokes aside I wonder what (serious) people really expect from Suninen. Imo dreams of fighting for win or a podium (without many retirements) are completely unrealistic. First start in Rally1 on these kinds of rallies a realistic goal is beating Loubet and Katsuta in Estonia and those + Neuville in Finland. Note that Suninen has pretty bad history in Estonia, including being slower than Greensmith.

Further on my point is that Mikkelsen can get some stunning times on specific rallies, specially in slippery conditions (Estonia and Acropolis PS last year, Monte and Monza basically every year he started). He also has rallies where he is completely off the pace (Rome 2021, Catalunya 2018). Suninen has that one stage on Sardinia a few years back.
So over more rallies I fail to see how another "mediocre" Fin adds to the excitement.

I know your partisan nature but I thought you could at least appreciate that another driver breeds more curiosity for those two rallies (acropolis? monza? monte?) than Mikkelsen finishing a likely stable fifth.


While we're bringing up WRC 2 results, Suninen in Finland 2021 and 2022, Estonia 2022?

[djip]

I know your partisan nature but I thought you could at least appreciate that another driver breeds more curiosity for those two rallies (acropolis? monza? monte?) than Mikkelsen finishing a likely stable fifth.


While we're bringing up WRC 2 results, Suninen in Finland 2021 and 2022, Estonia 2022?

We can (have had) debated endelessely on the matter. In the end, whilst i am not a big believer, Sunninen deserves the seat. He's been in te Huyndai stable for long now, and whilst maybe not WDC material, has shown glimpses of speed in the past. He has tested the Rally1 car "extensively" , on the Finland test base base moreover, and has even started a WRC event with it. Not to mention that Estonia/Finland are his home turf - always good for PR.
Forget about the last MSport year(s) where the car was way behind (remember, Lappi was also off the pace, yet today he only gets praises ...)
Of course, this will be a do-or-die moment for his carreer. But this is what champions are made off : Size the opportunity when it comes !

[er88]

In Finland Mikkelsen would likely control the result somewhere around 5th(depending on the dropouts).
With Suninen you can get a crash in first stage (2x in last season at MSport) or a crash later while leading (Sweden 2019).

Jokes aside I wonder what (serious) people really expect from Suninen. Imo dreams of fighting for win or a podium (without many retirements) are completely unrealistic. First start in Rally1 on these kinds of rallies a realistic goal is beating Loubet and Katsuta in Estonia and those + Neuville in Finland. Note that Suninen has pretty bad history in Estonia, including being slower than Greensmith.

Further on my point is that Mikkelsen can get some stunning times on specific rallies, specially in slippery conditions (Estonia and Acropolis PS last year, Monte and Monza basically every year he started). He also has rallies where he is completely off the pace (Rome 2021, Catalunya 2018). Suninen has that one stage on Sardinia a few years back.
So over more rallies I fail to see how another "mediocre" Fin adds to the excitement.

The sooner you accept Mikkelsen is done at the top level, the easier you will deal with the fact that no teams want him in a rally1 car

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Lappi suffered a double propshaft failure on Wednesday morning’s Safari Rally shakedown stage – a problem Hyundai team principal Cyril Abiteboul revealed the team also experienced in a previous test.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/lappi-didnt-manage-a-single-run-of-shakedown/

[EstWRC]

Lappi saying to Helsinkin Sanomat that there was no mention of him being number 2 in the team when contract was signed and it isn’t also written in the contract.

[mknight]

The sooner you accept Mikkelsen is done at the top level, the easier you will deal with the fact that no teams want him in a rally1 car

He was basically signing a contract with Hyundai some 9 months ago. Until "I'd rather be home than drive a Hyundai" ate his words. That's as close as it gets. Unlike pure dreams about Meeke.

As far as I understand the big difference with Mikkelsen is he wants to get paid well, instead of bringing money. Which is why the likes of Greensmith and Suninen get to drive instead.

Is he too optimistic about is own value? Maybe, but just about all rally drivers seem a bit too overconfident in their own abilities, or he really follows the "once a paydriver, always a paydriver".

----------



Lappi saying to Helsinkin Sanomat that there was no mention of him being number 2 in the team when contract was signed and it isn’t also written in the contract.

Yet the new Hyundai boss had been threating him like number 2 since at least Sweden and in Sardinia he seemed to automatically act like number 2 himself (when Ogier retired).

[Myrvold]

or he really follows the "once a paydriver, always a paydriver".


There's something about it though. Marcus Ericsson, while having won three IndyCar-races, including Indy 500 and being 2nd overall so far this year, he is reportedly struggling to keep his seat as he is expected to bring money.

[EstWRC]

I’m surprised this article wasn’t mentioned here.

Well I missed it also myself and now found it

“I learned a lot from [Tänak] as well on the technical side. However yeah, our driving style was different,” Neuville added.

“With EP we are more on a similar philosophy, so I think it’s going in a good direction.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundais-development-boosted-by-neuville-and-lappi-synergy/

I’m no expert but for me it seemed from the Tänak Hyundai years that you have to drive that car more aggressively which doesn’t suit his style. Remember Latvala said this during last year at Rally Estonia and Ott himself during Finland and admitted he can’t do it on every rally (the aggressive driving)

But Lappi on the other hand drives very sideways and more aggressively and that’s why I think he has matched well with the Hyundai so far.

I can say now he definitely made a right move to take this contract. He is doing very good so far

[skarderud]

Neuville's drivingstyle is a little "unortodox" maybe, using the handbrake alot. Watched a historic rally he did in a Peugeot 306 maxi, and the use of handbrake was wery visible, and seemed not like it was for show, just his style.

Quite different from others it seems, but is it a effective way of driving? I'm not sure, to be honest.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

Neuville was asked about this during Sardegna and he said using the handbrake is not his preference but it's necessary to go fast in the Hyundai.

[skarderud]

He has done that for years, if the behaviour of the car is not right, why on earth are they still there? Fundamental wrong engineering? For many years?

The list of good drivers that dont manage do ho fast in the Hyundai is quite long.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-use-october-joker-to-improve-wrc-package/10506115/

[Managarium]

https://i.postimg.cc/gjfKXXrk/370273014-18098787010350216-6981918630417031144-n.jpg (https://postimg.cc/BPBFRvxd)

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/f-x-demaison-breaks-his-media-silence/

An interesting interview with Hyundai’s latest recruitment, F-X.

[Yugo_para_siempre]

Now that Ott will be back.

How things will end up in terms of the car set up?

I mean, this year we read some comments from Thierry that the setup they use this year is much more suitable to him and Lappi. Also he mentioned that the setup preferences of Ott was very soft and all over the place sometimes.

[er88]

Tanak has to be convinced he can make it work. Doesn't look too good if he makes a 3rd move since Toyota and can't make it work to the maximum (title and loads of wins) at either Hyundai x2 or msport.

He must have been given assurances by Cyril that theyll work towards a car he is happy with, and Tanak will have seen the progress this year at Hyundai. Lappi has had good pace on most events and isnt a top tier1 driver, but they still need to work on reliability (just not to the extent msport do).

Hopefully Tanak and Neuville can work together properly under strong management, to get the car consistently on the level of Toyota. We dont need kalle domination or Ogier winning every time he does an event.

[doubled1978]

I suspect he has been in conversation with FX and Cyril about what changes and upgrades will be made for next season and has been convinced, along with being assured it isn’t ‘Thierry’s’ team.
If the car is working well, you would hope that both drivers can make it work for them. The previous Hyundai cars have always had peculiar traits that drivers have to find their way around.

[TypeR]

Maybe he has even tested the car..
Finnish base is close and test can be done quite privately.

[Eli]

I suspect he has been in conversation with FX and Cyril about what changes and upgrades will be made for next season and has been convinced, along with being assured it isn’t ‘Thierry’s’ team.
If the car is working well, you would hope that both drivers can make it work for them. The previous Hyundai cars have always had peculiar traits that drivers have to find their way around.

While it isn’t the exact same car he drove 12 months ago, he did help develop it before it’s homolgation and throughout 2022 so it’s not like he’s coming blind to that car, should be (hopefully) an interesting 2024 campaign.

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231004/0988e6fdbd0f673b143be9aad376a74b.jpg

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/return-of-tanak/

[TypeR]

The 2024 season is also an important milestone in our history, as it marks the tenth anniversary of our debut in the series.

This year is their 10th back in series..
2014-2023

[Eli]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231004/0988e6fdbd0f673b143be9aad376a74b.jpg

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/return-of-tanak/

Really hope it turns out better than it did after 2019.

[er88]

Presuming it's just a one year deal? Normally if it was a longer deal it would've been announced

[Rallyest]

Am i missing something ". Our goal in this new chapter will be nothing less than to win all the three titles, and with the new structure of the team, we have all the tools needed to achieve it.
Game on! ��"

What title is the third title? Manu title, driver title and ...??

[AMSS]

Am i missing something ". Our goal in this new chapter will be nothing less than to win all the three titles, and with the new structure of the team, we have all the tools needed to achieve it.
Game on! ��"

What title is the third title? Manu title, driver title and ...??

Co-driver

[Rallyest]

Co-driver

ofcourse, silly me, thank you

[Norm75]

There are actually four fia world titles:

Title for drivers
Title for co-drivers
Title for manufacturers
Title for teams

I would think Hyundai mean drivers/manufacturer/team when they refer to triple title.

[TypeR]

It is driver, co-driver and manufacturer.


The World Rally Championship for Teams is for non-manufacturing entities. They can only enter in Rally1 or World Rally Cars if the corresponding manufacturer team is also running in the manufacturers' championship.

[Managarium]

What about WRC2, does it count as title?

[Norm75]

Full list here

https://www.fia.com/events/world-rally-championship/season-2023/2023-world-rally-championship

[Chema]

Thierry Neuville, Esapekka Lappi and Dani Sordo line-up for Japan...

[trykmann]

Thierry Neuville, Esapekka Lappi and Dani Sordo line-up for Japan...

Sounds like Sordos farewell rally.

[bandit12]

Wtf?

[Steve Boyd]

Wtf?
Spammers selling prescription medication on-line.
Click the triangle "Report Post" button next to the "Like" button, write something like "spam" in the report box and click the button to send the report. Eventually one of the mods will get round to deleting the spam posts & probably block the poster.

[Sulland]

What about WRC2, does it count as title?

In my book yes.
Logic:
series is part of the world championship level.
series is approved by FIA with own tech regulations, and number of competitions that counts.

If you win you are world champion in that class.

same in singel seaters, karting, boat racing, MC racing, they all crown world champions in different classes.

[rp]

In my book yes.
Logic:
series is part of the world championship level.
series is approved by FIA with own tech regulations, and number of competitions that counts.

If you win you are world champion in that class.


WRC2 winner is not World Champion.

[ictus]

WRC2 winner is not World Champion.

here we go again...

[Kenneth]

In my book yes.


You are not FIA tho. In their book no.

[Norm75]

You are not FIA tho. In their book no.

Well if you click the link to the fia page I provided then yes, it does (the question was what about wrc2, is that a title and the page has it listed as titles up for grabs)

Does that mean they are world champion? Difficult to say but most other racing classes count the title winner as world champion (formula 1, gp2 or whatever it’s called, MotoGP, moto2, moto3 etc)

[Kenneth]

Well yeah, ofc if you win WRC2 you get that WRC2 Champion title, same as winner of WRC Masters Cup got Winner of WRC Masters Cup title. But you've been talking about world title.

And no, it's absolutely easy to say, as was said many times here in forum. And no, a champion of Formula 2 is not World Champion, same as for example champion of GT3 in WEC. And MotoGP is held by different government body.

[becher]

Well if you click the link to the fia page I provided then yes, it does (the question was what about wrc2, is that a title and the page has it listed as titles up for grabs)

Does that mean they are world champion? Difficult to say but most other racing classes count the title winner as world champion (formula 1, gp2 or whatever it’s called, MotoGP, moto2, moto3 etc)

F2, F3 are not world championships.

[EstWRC]

“I think Thierry is very strong and has a very strong opinion of what he wants, but to a certain degree when you have been 10 years in the same team you struggle to bring up new ideas and concepts. And that is absolutely normal and it is not a criticism of Thierry, and this is an area where Esapekka is very strong.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/abiteboul-sheds-light-on-lappis-wrc-future-at-hyundai/10531629/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Neuville applauds Suninen...

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w26817_SupportiveNeuvilleapplaudspromisingSuninen? fbclid=IwAR04j-aMdwU5QonHUgtxNhB-7EftIWLgsGuzLQlsUamxqGkISWeibH3dhhQ

[EstWRC]

Hyundai to debut WRC reliability upgrades in 2024

Hyundai has opted to use its October development joker window to push forward on reliability upgrades to its World Rally Championship challenger, which will debut next year.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-debut-wrc-reliability-upgrades-in-2024/10542127/

[focus206]

Hyundai to debut WRC reliability upgrades in 2024

Hyundai has opted to use its October development joker window to push forward on reliability upgrades to its World Rally Championship challenger, which will debut next year.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-debut-wrc-reliability-upgrades-in-2024/10542127/

I'm hopeful but not optimist, knowing Hyundai... this is essential for them to compete with Toyota.

[WRCStan]

I'm hopeful but not optimist, knowing Hyundai... this is essential for them to compete with Toyota.

This time last year they didn't have a team principal, this time two years ago they didn't have a car. Looks like they're getting their ship together ahead of 2024.

[EstWRC]

This time last year they didn't have a team principal, this time two years ago they didn't have a car. Looks like they're getting their ship together ahead of 2024.

Exactly, the situation now is completely different with Cyril and FX onboard

[TypeR]

I still can't understand, how 2022 season was a complete mess-up from Hyundai. I mean team leading wise.. South-Korean-German team and total mess was totally unacceptable to me.

[Gonek]

I still can't understand, how 2022 season was a complete mess-up from Hyundai. I mean team leading wise.. South-Korean-German team and total mess was totally unacceptable to me.

Somehow they won more rallies last year. This year only twice and actually when their competitors were in trouble or gave up…

[CeskyOndra]

Somehow they won more rallies last year. This year only twice and actually when their competitors were in trouble or gave up…

In 2022 there were 2 drivers able to win an event - next year they will win at least 5 rallies (Neuville winning tarmac rallies and Tanak winning fast gravel, mostly) On rough and slow gravel it will depend on reliability

[focus206]

This time last year they didn't have a team principal, this time two years ago they didn't have a car. Looks like they're getting their ship together ahead of 2024.

I don't have faith in Hyundai engineers and their ability to make a car that is reliable enough to compete with Toyota. You can have the best team principal in the world or the best driver in the world, but your car needs to be up to par. It's 4 seasons it's not (incredible how they won the 2020 manufacturer title, but it was certainly an atypical season...) and I don't think it will reach Toyota, but let's hope...

[seb_sh]

I don't have faith in Hyundai engineers and their ability to make a car that is reliable enough to compete with Toyota. You can have the best team principal in the world or the best driver in the world, but your car needs to be up to par. It's 4 seasons it's not (incredible how they won the 2020 manufacturer title, but it was certainly an atypical season...) and I don't think it will reach Toyota, but let's hope...

It's not just the team principal, they have FX and Loriaux as well.

[focus206]

It's not just the team principal, they have FX and Loriaux as well.

Let's see if Loriaux will be able to close the reliability gap. At least the team realized where their problem is at.

[becher]

It's not just the team principal, they have FX and Loriaux as well.
Loriaux has been there last year as well.

[Steve Boyd]

Hmmm . . .
More reliable car + Tanak - is that back to where you started?

[CeskyOndra]

Hmmm . . .
More reliable car + Tanak - is that back to where you started?

Hyundai has been struggling with suspension issues all the time

[ouvreur]

Definitely Hyundai win next year both Championships! Mark my words!

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

2022 - 5 event wins
2023 - 2 event wins

It would take WW3 breaking out to stop Toyota winning both titles next year.

[Tauri_J]

Nah, it just takes better reliability and replacing a crash prone driver.

[EstWRC]

Great to see the positivity here.

[becher]

Oh positivity was never the strong point of this forum was it?

[EstWRC]

Christian Loriaux and the development of the Hyundai i20 N Rally1

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2023/11/06/christian-loriaux-and-the-development-of-the-hyundai-i20-n-rally1/

[focus206]

I think if Hyundai improves reliability (big if), they can fight for the manufacturer title. Neuville would have been clearly ahead of Evans with similar reliability this year, Tanak will be up there as well, so...
For the drivers title, beating Kalle is another story though.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's tough to improve reliability when you are already the (equal) best funded WRC team out there.

Unlike M-Sport, Hyundai have had no excuse for years for their poor reliability. I wouldnt bet a single penny on this changing next season.

[trykmann]

Abiteboul compares their team and Tänak with Red Bull and Verstappen

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzQp8Dvi8nS/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Sent from my SM-A705FN using Tapatalk

[denkimi]

2022 - 5 event wins
2023 - 2 event wins

It would take WW3 breaking out to stop Toyota winning both titles next year.
2022 - 6 wins for kalle
2023 - 3 wins for kalle so far.

Ogier is making a big difference this year. He has taken 2 wins away from rovanpera and 1 from Neuville.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I just listened to the WRC Backstories podcast with Mikkelsen.

Interesting to hear the reason he struggled to drive the i20 WRC was due to his driving style which he said he learned from Ogier (who learned it from Loeb). He couldn't trail-brake into corners, only in a straight line, and didnt want to change his style.

I wonder what the current i20 Rally1 would be like and if it's the same (as its still for Neuville) ? If so it could mean Mikkelsen would struggle there again if he ever got a chance.

[becher]

Interesting. Loeb and Ogier don't trail brake? Anyone noticed that or got some insight?

[TypeR]

Interesting. Loeb and Ogier don't trail brake? Anyone noticed that or got some insight?
They don't give a shhhirt. They win titles.
Although I am a fan of Tanak.. I still respect Loeb's attitude.. that he sets his style to the car and not the other way and moan about the bad car.
Okay, he(Loeb) couldn't find his pace w Hyundai.. but it is another 10y old story with certain driver.
It will be really interesting to see, what Abiteboul will achieve. Adamo was same style, but suddenly retired.

[seb_sh]

Interesting. Loeb and Ogier don't trail brake? Anyone noticed that or got some insight?

From memory, Loeb was described as braking earlier than others but also getting off the brake sooner and accelerating earlier. This was especially good with active diffs but seems to be an efficient style in general.

[becher]

They don't give a shhhirt. They win titles.
Although I am a fan of Tanak.. I still respect Loeb's attitude.. that he sets his style to the car and not the other way and moan about the bad car.
Okay, he(Loeb) couldn't find his pace w Hyundai.. but it is another 10y old story with certain driver.
It will be really interesting to see, what Abiteboul will achieve. Adamo was same style, but suddenly retired.
Oh man ...they sure give a shit about how they drive a car. They are athletes not kids on "Need for Speed".

[becher]

Oh it's the other way round, Mikkelsen claimed that he, Ogier and Loeb trail brake and the i20 didn't work with trail braking. Makes much more sense considering Neuville constantly adjusted the car on entry with the handbrake.

[Eli]

https://motorsport.hyundai.com/familiar-faces-complete-2024-line-up/?fbclid=IwAR2cL8EHvrm56efwP6Nv44AoNM3KCyKzmxGINMS4 CY3z9J8ZUIny9Z917Bo

Sordo & Mikkelsen as the rumors said.

[EstWRC]

Hyundais Christmas presents unwrapping video and interestingly there is Suninen and I can also see that Msports social media manager Sebastian SCOTT has now joined them

https://youtu.be/9m0JeFSNsXo?si=WJBxebd-JH7SXuuu

[satnav]

It wasn't just Ott that joined Hyundai, he took a few with him .....

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240110/a97f0d017bd12e2e135caebaa53a5c3b.jpg


https://x.com/hmsgofficial/status/1744996377363468445?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[Eli]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240110/a97f0d017bd12e2e135caebaa53a5c3b.jpg


https://x.com/hmsgofficial/status/1744996377363468445?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

https://x.com/MotorsportWeek/status/1745021930829181287?s=20

It says Hyundai are joining forces with Alpinestars but weren't they already with them? or am I completely mistaken?

[TypeR]

2014 Sabelt
2015-2020 Alpinestars
2021-2023 OMP
2024-.. Alpinestars

[Eli]

2014 Sabelt
2015-2020 Alpinestars
2021-2023 OMP
2024-.. Alpinestars

I remembered they had them a few years back, thanks!

[Managarium]

So, can we hope for a different livery?
Not radical, but something different this year.

[ictus]

So, can we hope for a different livery?
Not radical, but something different this year.

every year is "something different" ;)

[Managarium]

every year is "something different" ;)

Yeah, but looking at the new racing suits, I'm thinking maybe light blue will be a dominant color.

[Eli]

Yeah, but looking at the new racing suits, I'm thinking maybe light blue will be a dominant color.

Probably half body work dark second half bright, or vice versa, in any case we'll find out tomorrow.

[EstWRC]

The suits look really nice, hoping the car looks too

[sidrun]

Does anybody knows when we'll see Hyundai's new livery?

[EstWRC]

Sneak peak

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/48236cbfb40381489d4c357b1bff1e8f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240115/708c5f59b7b0c2bd10c96eb8049cad4b.jpg

[Chema]

Tomorrow at 10:00 CET, new hyundai will be revealed.

[Eli]

https://x.com/officialwrc/status/1747182006864068628?s=61&t=6ZLBDYTwlSamYcW0Iki0kg

Very pretty imho, their best livery yet (although I still don’t like that duck face).

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/94cc7d5a6c20dfcb51abe36522f1b887.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/65366fd8cb0f0bbe3bae52e77b768db0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/067ee2b320fd9c53f236f3817d2eb4a8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/70ed41adc624ddf907ad9ddd65e591e1.jpg

[EstWRC]

You can see it in the daylight at the end of the video

https://youtu.be/5wpfuAoxXm0?si=nwQe33hX17JzoE2F

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/bc5bd5cea391faf8834ef3d7df7268ef.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/e0cb71a23b1e2da2f900cd171988cd41.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/dbdbc3727aed8c3727cfb075ab853410.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/cec250f24d31490f4da1fb63d15e39f0.jpg

[jcevc]

New technical partner for Hyundai Motorsport is Akrapovic exhaust from Slovenia - at least something from our small country in WRC :)

[TypeR]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GD9Bz7zWUAAGmDh?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GD9CwAAWYAAw5X3?format=jpg&name=small

Too bad they never use the red wheels on stages..

Front end and fender looks more aggressive thanks to light-blue and red contrast.

Ps, is it a parking camera under the Hyundai logo? :D

[seb_sh]

One of their best imo, I prefer it to the last 2 years which seemed a bit random, this one seems a bit more designed, I like the "hidden" H on the doors for example.

[EstWRC]

One of their best imo, I prefer it to the last 2 years which seemed a bit random, this one seems a bit more designed, I like the "hidden" H on the doors for example.

Agreed. Looks really nice and at least a bigger change compared to previous years.

Interesting that Msport and Hyundai went with lighter colors while Toyota changed to black

[Paul Hudson]

I like that they still have "For Craig" on the back of a great livery.

[focus206]

I like it, cleaner and more simple than last years. Thumbs up for "for Craig" too

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/aeb05e341248171bd3912c7cde4af9d8.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not bad... still in the Hyundai style and a bit fresher.

But I think once the HY / Number decal is put on the door it'll spoil that area

[TypeR]

I know I am repeating myself, but what is it with the reverse/parking camera :D did they just use the street i20N trunk..?

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240116/de293283dc14deddd15902c4403eea18.jpg

[Kenneth]

I didn't like the livery on the renders, but these pics in wild sold them to me. Looks really good!

[Kenneth]

I know I am repeating myself, but what is it with the reverse/parking camera :D did they just use the street i20N trunk..?

You know, they wanted to make the car more relevant to road version :D

[meh]

I know I am repeating myself, but what is it with the reverse/parking camera :D did they just use the street i20N trunk..?


You know, they wanted to make the car more relevant to road version :D

In previous years I could say "It is for watching Toyotas coming faster", I hope this is not the case this year :)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

GTA6 Grand Test Auto :D

https://youtu.be/pUDzfwXtcRo?si=ACXNvcMtZ-3X-AjZ

[Kras]

GTA6 Grand Test Auto :D

https://youtu.be/pUDzfwXtcRo?si=ACXNvcMtZ-3X-AjZ

Good bit

[EstWRC]

GTA6 Grand Test Auto :D

https://youtu.be/pUDzfwXtcRo?si=ACXNvcMtZ-3X-AjZ

Side by side comparison

https://x.com/takona_official/status/1748000268015280376?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

[seb_sh]

Side by side comparison

https://x.com/takona_official/status/1748000268015280376?s=46&t=AWria8OgC1kV5QC61vX5Xg

Even better when you see it side by side. Hyundai really upped their game lately.

[EstWRC]

Even better when you see it side by side. Hyundai really upped their game lately.

Because they got Sebastian Scott and one other video dude from Msport together with Tänak

I think Scott is also handling their social media now

[seb_sh]

Because they got Sebastian Scott and one other video dude from Msport together with Tänak

I think Scott is also handling their social media now

I suspected they got a new team or something, there are some fun things on their twitter.

[manthey]

https://youtu.be/1ReRuAgMR8s?si=tPqa6b4Z0NEpc8tT

Pedal cam

[CeskyOndra]

Because they got Sebastian Scott and one other video dude from Msport together with Tänak

I think Scott is also handling their social media now

You can see some funny coments he is posting here, definitely him

[trykmann]

What is Seb Marshall doing at Hyundai? Co-driving?

[Morte66]

So, it seems to me Mikkelsen would greatly benefit from seat time in WRC1 before his next rally.

Do you think Hyundai can arrange that? Do they have the spare cars, people and money to enter him in some lower-level rallies in a WRC1?

If so, will they?

[Eli]

What is Seb Marshall doing at Hyundai? Co-driving?

I though I was imagining when I saw him this weekend, maybe he’s one of the crews’ gravel crews?

[Myrvold]

maybe he’s one of the crews’ gravel crews?

Nope. I am also wondering what he is doing this year, as he did leave the rally tv crew with a clear plan for 2024.

[SubaruNorway]

Nope. I am also wondering what he is doing this year, as he did leave the rally tv crew with a clear plan for 2024.

Coordinator explains his role pretty much i think, being a 2nd pair of eyes for the co drivers

[seb_sh]

Coordinator explains his role pretty much i think, being a 2nd pair of eyes for the co drivers

Remember Cyril said they need to improve their operations and eliminate mistakes, I suppose this one of the measures to achieve that.

[fiscorpun]

Do we know if Tanak will get a Rally2 car for Rally Estonia (ERC)? Cuz Hyundai can do that, eh?

[TypeR]

Do we know if Tanak will get a Rally2 car for Rally Estonia (ERC)? Cuz Hyundai can do that, eh?
I heard from my friend that as there is national champioship also together with ERC, then there is a (legal) loophole, that rally1 cars can drive.
I'm sure somebody knows more details to tell..

[meh]

I heard from my friend that as there is national champioship also together with ERC, then there is a (legal) loophole, that rally1 cars can drive.
I'm sure somebody knows more details to tell..

Yes, in case there is interest from Rally1 teams there is a "loophole" in the regulations, that they can be there. Also, in the way, one driver can do Saturday and another driver Sunday. It was explained by Aava during press conference. But please don't expect me to explain the loophole :)

[fiscorpun]

Awesome!.... Tho I'd rather see him driving a Rally2 as a one-off for ERC. Lets see how it goes

[TypeR]

According to this article, the drives between ,,half-seasoners'' divide like that..

https://www.rallit.fi/esapekka-lappi-saamassa-komennuksen-eksoottiseen-ralliin-onko-tassa-suomalaistahden-taman-kauden-ohjelma/

Mikkelsen:
- Monte-Carlo
- Croatia
- CER
- Japan

Sordo:
- Portugal
- Sardegna
- Acropolis

Lappi:
- Sweden
- Kenya
- Poland
- Latvia
- Finland
- Chile

Although I don't understand the point of Sordo doing 3 rallies only.. better let Mikkelsen get used to the car or give Suninem a chance. I doubt they would do worse on these rallies.

But okay, I'm not the team principal and don't decide anything :D

[mknight]

Mikkelsen said in an interview he had contract for 5 rallies, all tarmac rounds and one that was not decided.
I would expect Acropolis as the most likely candidate, based on his recent performance there.

But so far I don't quite understand their approach with him. Suninen got a test rally before his starts on both tarmac and gravel last year + test days and he also tested at end of 2022. Mikkelsen got 1 day test.

What did they then expect vs guys with 20+ starts in Rally1? (even Fourmaux had 12 and Munster 2). Note that Evans used like half the season to get used to Rally1 and Sordo somehow never really managed it.
Most likely explanation was that Mikkelsen was just told to finish (a bit like Lappi in Japan).

[skarderud]

Yes, Mikkelsen was told to finish and get to know the car. They also tested setups.
Hyundai also "sacrified" his gravelcrew to give Neuville and Tänak optimal information, don't know how?


Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Steve Boyd]

Yes, in case there is interest from Rally1 teams there is a "loophole" in the regulations, that they can be there. Also, in the way, one driver can do Saturday and another driver Sunday. It was explained by Aava during press conference. But please don't expect me to explain the loophole :)
No need for a loophole in National Rally regulations - you just write in what you want. You can also have two National Rallies - one on the first day & one on the second and get two WRC stars in the same car, one on each day. Simple!

[meh]

No need for a loophole in National Rally regulations - you just write in what you want. You can also have two National Rallies - one on the first day & one on the second and get two WRC stars in the same car, one on each day. Simple!

It can be simple, but for some reason, it has not been done so far?

[meh]

About Mikkelsen - yes, he was a bit too slow, but this is from a "continues full-timer perspective which is fighting for positions". We don't know what were his goals and tasks by the team.

On a positive note: as he tried to push on the PowerStage, he was able to show good speed.

[Steve Boyd]

It can be simple, but for some reason, it has not been done so far?The rules might be simple but the money usually isn't!

"Celebrity" entries often require a free entry & sometimes additional incentives to compete on such rallies. The budget of the event doesn't always allow these deals. This may not be an issue if the event comes at the right time and has the right conditions to allow some practice for a major event. Events looking to attract this sort of entry need to be in the right place & at the right time or have lots of spare cash for these things to happen.

[stavrosGDB]

Nice vid with Thierry and Keiichi Tsuchiya(aka Drift king)in the I20 N rally1.
https://youtu.be/o6MLfLgBaV4?si=nwXhRnoANHSq5qkR

[EstWRC]

Hyundai road book

https://youtu.be/KGvcMhz7zns?si=LNz9m0PheA5XweMT

[becher]

Didn't expect him to just take it with him.

[meh]

Hyundai road book

https://youtu.be/KGvcMhz7zns?si=LNz9m0PheA5XweMT

Nice to watch how competitors are discussing different things, Tänak and Taka, Mikkelsen and Latvala. Sordo also there.

How many times did Tänak eat a banana? :)

[wyler]

still think this should be mandatory for all teams...

[lmmjvss]

Hyundai road book

https://youtu.be/KGvcMhz7zns?si=LNz9m0PheA5XweMT

THIS was incredible! Msport had one or two really cool videos last year or in 2022, I dont remember.
Awesome. Hope all teams start to do this thing. Its like our "hardcore fan's drive to survive in rallying where theres no actual fights on track haha

[wyler]

also this is very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnSSOzXJd3Y

wrc should produce this kind of content and make it mandatory for the team as well.

[EstWRC]

So Monte livery was just a one off and they changed it again and it stays now for rest of the season

I like the side look of the new livery more but then again it looks so similar to previous years.

https://www.wrc.com/a/news/w27374

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240213/0f80bb52b4bad1972bc00082df71878a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240213/aaf68f3d77faf079770826cd4f6e3ab2.jpg

[TypeR]

So back to same years old livery.. only copied Toyota and put big N on the side..

[rp]

Oh dear how stupid! Monte livery was great and this is not at all.

[Eli]

Edit:
Just seen it's for the rest of the season, wish they'll revert to the start of the season's livery in 2025...

[EstWRC]

Edit:
Just seen it's for the rest of the season, wish they'll revert to the start of the season's livery in 2025...

I agree when looking at this comparison now

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240213/28e6fd81334801346cbd6667e9aa9773.jpg

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not very nice, makes the car look like a toy. And the N is in reverse on the co-driver side.

[ferrial]

Maybe just realised that design used in Monte Carlo looked too similar to Toyota’s usual livery 😀

[focus206]

Booo... what was the problem, fans liked the Monte livery too much and it was unacceptable? Not enough of a convoluted Christmas tree livery?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gutted for the rally game modders who did a great job creating the Monte Carlo livery ! :(

[WRC1]

i liked the Monte livery but also the new one, Hyundai maybe showed Toyota that it is possible to change livery during the season.....nobody wants to beat ugly black cars with stickers :) :) :)

[PLuto]

i liked the Monte livery but also the new one, Hyundai maybe showed Toyota that it is possible to change livery during the season.....nobody wants to beat ugly black cars with stickers :) :) :)

They will change black design for sure. If not earlier, for sure after first race with higher than average temperature :)

[Mirek]

I don't like either one of these simply because I really hate the color combination they use but I have to say that this one is even worse than the Monte one.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Gutted for the rally game modders who did a great job creating the Monte Carlo livery ! :(

But it didnt take them long... :)


https://www.racedepartment.com/attachments/dirtrally2-2024-02-14-18-30-55-03-jpg.729732/

[240RS]

Thierry Neuville described his wipers as "Sh**" . .this morning

For some reason, Hyundai always seem to have front visibility issues when they least need them . . . wipers, windscreen warmers etc.

Having assembled a dream team of technical gurus, surely a pair of decent wipers and motors that don't crush or go AWOL when needed can't be that hard to find!!!

[EstWRC]

Sweden road book

https://youtu.be/kYKphQ2CF_E?si=vghfIdJf-hT87rfL

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Production of petrol-powered Hyundai N hot hatches has come to an end in Europe, with electric N models picking up the baton..

https://www.evo.co.uk/hyundai/206546/hyundai-i30-n-and-i20-n-axed

[denkimi]

Production of petrol-powered Hyundai N hot hatches has come to an end in Europe, with electric N models picking up the baton..

https://www.evo.co.uk/hyundai/206546/hyundai-i30-n-and-i20-n-axed
weird how so many manufacturers are trying hard to stop building the cars the public wants.

[WRCStan]

Production of petrol-powered Hyundai N hot hatches has come to an end in Europe, with electric N models picking up the baton..

https://www.evo.co.uk/hyundai/206546/hyundai-i30-n-and-i20-n-axed

No big deal, we can still look forward to VW, Citroen and Hyundai as manufacturers in a Rally2 top class.

/s :rolleyes:

[TypeR]

and at the same time Toyota is laughing and keep making awesome hot-hatches..
Just released upgraded Yaris GR 4wd in Europe and new Corolla GR 4wd in the US.
Awesome!

[the sniper]

Production of petrol-powered Hyundai N hot hatches has come to an end in Europe, with electric N models picking up the baton..

https://www.evo.co.uk/hyundai/206546/hyundai-i30-n-and-i20-n-axed

Surely the writing is on the wall for the rally program now?

[deephouse]

Surely the writing is on the wall for the rally program now?

I think their program now depends on winning at least Drivers title this year, if not both (it's about time after 10 years), and FIA being clear what is the future of top WRC car category. I surely think that if they really implement Rally2 as top category, they could pull out of championship. Their car is not capable of fighting in front beside Skoda, Citroen and now Toyota. Last article from DirtFish does reveal quite ''too much information'' about whole thing. So I would rather see them winning both championship this year, so the bosses will be at least pleased and maybe stay a little bit longer.

[WRCStan]

Surely the writing is on the wall for the rally program now?

Can't see Hyundai HQ approve backing any i20 N into a new phase, it is now a historic vehicle for all intents and purposes. What becomes of Hyundai Motorsport is another question, can it still operate independently, and how? The Rally2 car being capable of fighting with others is more a commercial question than a manufacturer team success one.

Maybe HQ back development in one of the experimental groups...

[manthey]

Production of petrol-powered Hyundai N hot hatches has come to an end in Europe, with electric N models picking up the baton..

https://www.evo.co.uk/hyundai/206546/hyundai-i30-n-and-i20-n-axed

in the previous months there were i30's mules for an updated version based on the last one (a bigger restyling)
i20 is still on sale the facelift version but without the N variant

[lmmjvss]

Well.... Ford is also not producing Fiestas anymore, right? Msport is still selling Fiestas, for example.....

[manthey]

Well.... Ford is also not producing Fiestas anymore, right? Msport is still selling Fiestas, for example.....

they bought a lot of chassis before end of production
there was a picture with the warehouse full stocked

[WRCStan]

Fiesta Rally2 has two more WRC2 seasons in it. Ford don't fully back even a Rally1 entry. What's the silver lining comparison?

[the sniper]

Well.... Ford is also not producing Fiestas anymore, right? Msport is still selling Fiestas, for example.....

M-Sport are producing Fiestas because they don't have a better option to continue their existence. And Ford have the Puma for Rally1.

Would Hyundai feel a need to preserve their Motorsport department in its current form?

[fiscorpun]

When Hyundai said they were already planning the development of the 2025 car but were "waiting on the new rules", could that mean if they keep Rally1 cars they are heading into something new like Kona? Cuz it would be a similar move as the Puma.
A.... "suvISH" body that in WRC would not look like an SUV like in Extreme-E or NitroCross.... u'know

[WRCStan]

There's at least a Puma ST. Kona N was canned instantly. No point having a performance car line up not doing motorsport, and doing motorsport with standard models.

[Eli]

There's at least a Puma ST. Kona N was canned instantly. No point having a performance car line up not doing motorsport, and doing motorsport with standard models.

I think just last week or the week before the updated Puma is no longer being sold with the ST variant…

[WRCStan]

https://rallyjournal.com/thierry-neuville-makes-a-surprising-revelation-is-the-rally-star-ending-his-career/

“A lot has happened in recent weeks. Nothing is clear today. What’s happened can make me reconsider my desires, but also the opportunities.”