Hyundai WRT

[masa90]

Really good news!

[mknight]

Not so sure it means much.
Citroen decided to leave at once when Ogier left, even with signed contracts.
VW left even after funding whole development of 2017 car and even run tests with the car after it was announced that they are leaving.

[Co-driven]

And when you look how is the mood/atmosphere among the crew members, you realize things aren't good. Also you notice that a few members that work behind the scenes (not talking about drivers, engineers, etc) are leaving the team, you start to question yourself...

[cali]

Apparently crisis meeting has been held with Hyundai bosses and with Tänak/Neuville. Moncet wasn't invited....

Tänak ja Neuville pidasid Hyundai bossidega kriisikoosolekut, tiimipealik jäeti kõrvale - Delfi Sport
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/120033314/tanak-ja-neuville-pidasid-hyundai-bossidega-kriisikoosolekut-tiimipealik-jaeti-korvale

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[EstWRC]

the article is written based on this https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pressure-building-on-moncet-within-hyundai/

[rallyfiend]

Again with the Adamo....

Jesus he must have given the a LOT of money when he was at Hyundai...

[bomber21]

I never understood why they never hired an Adamo successor. Is it so difficult? Aren’t there people in this world engaged to motorsport and leadership?

[doubled1978]

I never understood why they never hired an Adamo successor. Is it so difficult? Aren’t there people in this world engaged to motorsport and leadership?
Maybe they have and that person is in post and serving out notice in his/her current position.

[Eli]

So, any news regarding Moncet following that meeting he wasn’t invited to?

[Eli]

If Paddon wins (which I know is unlikely) in Estonia with his Rally2 machine, and Oliver Solberg does horribly wrong, are their any chances they'll let Paddon drive the Rally1 car for Finland or is that just wishful thinking?

[PLuto]

If Paddon wins (which I know is unlikely) in Estonia with his Rally2 machine, and Oliver Solberg does horribly wrong, are their any chances they'll let Paddon drive the Rally1 car for Finland or is that just wishful thinking?

No chance...

[Eli]

No chance...

That's a shame, would be interesting to see how Paddon copes after 4(?) seasons of not being in a WRC (/Rally1) car.

[ouvreur]

Again with the Adamo....

Jesus he must have given the a LOT of money when he was at Hyundai...
The article is completely wrong. It has two key facts totally back-to-front:

1. The car with which Evans' lord and saviour Adamo won Hyundai two championships in '19 and '20 was Nandan's baby.
2. The car currently falling apart all over the world is very much Adamo's legacy.

With this in mind, how would bringing back the man who oversaw the development of the i20 Rally1 to its current position actually help them? Would he miraculously find a way to stop the front end falling off and the transmission failing? If so, why wasn't that built into the car in the first place?

No. The reality is, the buck has to stop somewhere, and in this case, the man in charge when this car was being brought to homologation was... Andrea Adamo.

[wyler]

No. The reality is, the buck has to stop somewhere, and in this case, the man in charge when this car was being brought to homologation was... Andrea Adamo.

You sure about this?

[logic]

The article is completely wrong. It has two key facts totally back-to-front:

1. The car with which Evans' lord and saviour Adamo won Hyundai two championships in '19 and '20 was Nandan's baby.
2. The car currently falling apart all over the world is very much Adamo's legacy.

With this in mind, how would bringing back the man who oversaw the development of the i20 Rally1 to its current position actually help them? Would he miraculously find a way to stop the front end falling off and the transmission failing? If so, why wasn't that built into the car in the first place?

No. The reality is, the buck has to stop somewhere, and in this case, the man in charge when this car was being brought to homologation was... Andrea Adamo.

You are mostly right.

[1988senna]

I feel the most important thing for pardon is finish the race

[1988senna]

but who will be the responsible for the failing in season and how will the Hyundai going

[pantealex]

I feel the most important thing for Paddon is finish the race

No, if he is slow, why would someone hire him ?

He must show some speed (no need to be faster than Suninen but close to him)

[Rally Hokkaido]

No, if he is slow, why would someone hire him ?

He must show some speed (no need to be faster than Suninen but close to him)

True, however he did say in an interview that his aim is to be on the pace in Finland and that Estonia is just the second test before then.

[AnttiL]

Even if Paddon would win WRC2 in Estonia and Finland, it would be a tough job to get a Rally1 seat for next year. Just as Mikkelsen.

[flat_right]

In Estonian media Tänak was asked about this meeting they had in Germany without Moncet and he said he doesn't understand why there was so much talk about it. For him it was rather a regular meeting they have before and after the rallies. When he was asked about the situation in the team, then he said that "it is very open inside the team". Whatever it means...

He was also asked about PET and he said that it was rather restricted and some of the things he couldn't test at all because of these restrictions. This is just a rumor but what I have heard was that when Neuville was scheduled to test on the second day and it was said to be cancelled because of weather, it was actually cancelled because of missing parts. He was finally able to test on the 3rd day, when it was actually Solberg's turn. And then Solberg had to make his PET in Finland instead.

[Eli]

In Estonian media Tänak was asked about this meeting they had in Germany without Moncet and he said he doesn't understand why there was so much talk about it. For him it was rather a regular meeting they have before and after the rallies. When he was asked about the situation in the team, then he said that "it is very open inside the team". Whatever it means...

He was also asked about PET and he said that it was rather restricted and some of the things he couldn't test at all because of these restrictions. This is just a rumor but what I have heard was that when Neuville was scheduled to test on the second day and it was said to be cancelled because of weather, it was actually cancelled because of missing parts. He was finally able to test on the 3rd day, when it was actually Solberg's turn. And then Solberg had to make his PET in Finland instead.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-wrc-boss-lifts-lid-on-nightmare-parts-supply-issues/10337820/

And this completes the rumour about the parts, well part of it anyhow.

[TypeR]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-wrc-boss-lifts-lid-on-nightmare-parts-supply-issues/10337820/

And this completes the rumour about the parts, well part of it anyhow.

Would expect such story from a team that entered WRC this season.. not from one of the biggest manus in the world, running 9th season..

[logic]

Would expect such story from a team that entered WRC this season.. not from one of the biggest manus in the world, running 9th season..

Have you ever worked on either?

[TypeR]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-wrc-boss-lifts-lid-on-nightmare-parts-supply-issues/10337820/

And this completes the rumour about the parts, well part of it anyhow.


Have you ever worked on either?
No. It is just weird. M-Sport can run 5 cars on a weekend, but Hyundai is having problems testing on schedule..

[1988senna]

what kind of parts need the 6 months delivery time?? can't believe that .

[AnttiL]

what kind of parts need the 6 months delivery time?? can't believe that .

Read the article, it explains

[logic]

what kind of parts need the 6 months delivery time?? can't believe that .

You would be surprised mate

[wyler]

No. It is just weird. M-Sport can run 5 cars on a weekend, but Hyundai is having problems testing on schedule..

M-Sport started development & planning more or less 1 year before hiunday

[flat_right]

M-Sport started development & planning more or less 1 year before hiunday

And Hyundai needs those parts for their main cars. They don't have anything to spare at the moment.

[dupanton]

Lead times at the moment for pretty muc heverything at least doubled compared to years ago. Especially everything with electronics.
I've ordered parts (nothing to do with motorsport) with leadtimes of a year recently...

[Sulland]

To me it looks like they have way to little testing for a new car.

How many testdays have the different Rally1 teams clocked in 2022?

How many testdays is a team allowed?

[skarderud]

Solberg said the Hyundai is too stiff in set-up, and he has not been allowed to do his own set-up before.
After saturday morning he has, together with his engineer, changed the base set-up to much softer and he trust the car again.
All the drivers don't trust the rear of the car, but are Tänak and Neuville not allowed to do theire own set-up?

Hyundai need to learn something from Subaru's 2006 season.
That is the schoolbook example of bad leadership, just trust the engineers and not the drivers.

https://www.facebook.com/1191701940885440/posts/pfbid02PQuf2R5fycXFqMAFiLmUKKcm6xooD2MqKvQEDLZyNo4 1NV7FbaaFbyN7a24ByrFbl/

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[cali]

Solberg said the Hyundai is too stiff in set-up, and he has not been allowed to do his own set-up before.
After saturday morning he has, together with his engineer, changed the base set-up to much softer and he trust the car again.
All the drivers don't trust the rear of the car, but are Tänak and Neuville not allowed to do theire own set-up?

Hyundai need to learn something from Subaru's 2006 season.
That is the schoolbook example of bad leadership, just trust the engineers and not the drivers.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via TapatalkTänak said that the fundamentals of the car are way off. Dunno exactly what but he said that it's not a setup issue

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[skarderud]

Tänak said that the fundamentals of the car are way off. Dunno exactly what but he said that it's not a setup issue

Sent from my DN2103 using TapatalkLatvala said that they schould redesign the entire rear, both suspension and aerodynamics?

The next question, when this is so obvious, why don't they do something?

I know from friends that work together with asian manufacturers that if its something wrong, noone dares to do anything before the big boss has said what to do.
Hyundai is based in germany, so they should't have that problem here?

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[er88]

I'm afraid this all ends up with a Hyundai withdrawal at the end of the year....

How the fuck can they not even have appointed a team manager?! Neuville and Tanak having talks with Korean bosses..., and rumours this weekend emerging that Neuville could be out BEFORE the end of the season....


What a mess.

[mknight]

Tänak said that the fundamentals of the car are way off. Dunno exactly what but he said that it's not a setup issue

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Tanak has been in the team through the whole development of this car

Also ever since Paddon there have been issue of "not listening to drivers".

Note that it's not really Korean team at all.

[WRCStan]

I'm afraid this all ends up with a Hyundai withdrawal at the end of the year....

How the fuck can they not even have appointed a team manager?! Neuville and Tanak having talks with Korean bosses..., and rumours this weekend emerging that Neuville could be out BEFORE the end of the season....


What a mess.

What rumours?

[meh]

Tanak has been in the team through the whole development of this car

Also ever since Paddon there have been issue of "not listening to drivers".

Note that it's not really Korean team at all.

Let's clear this one out.

Tänak stayed in the team to develop new car BUT there have not been any development of the car. Just delayed decisions and some last-minute emergency solutions.

[Eli]

Let's clear this one out.

Tänak stayed in the team to develop new car BUT there have not been any development of the car. Just delayed decisions and some last-minute emergency solutions.

And we thought Citroën's situation was bad back in the day... this is just something else. They're on a different planet but unlike Kalle, not on a good one.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@OttTanak: "Obviously we know what we need to do, we just need to start doing it. The potential is there..."

[mknight]

Let's clear this one out.

Tänak stayed in the team to develop new car BUT there have not been any development of the car. Just delayed decisions and some last-minute emergency solutions.

He has been driving various prototypes since mid 2021.
Those prototypes looked different than what they entered Monte with. (Also there was quite some talk here with various sources on how the new car is "being made for him").

= There has been development. Maybe not enough, maybe too late, maybe in wrong direction.

Anyway I partly don't get the drama, compared with Puma there doesn't seem to be much difference (even taking Breen vs Tanak/Neuville into account) both in speed and reliability.

Toyota is better and Kalle is on a great form, so what. In 2018 and 2019 it was similar for Ogier.

[cali]

Deleted

[bomber21]

Please, just hire a team manager! For God’s sake!!!!

[Eli]

Please, just hire a team manager! For God’s sake!!!!

You mean, please don't pull the plug after this year, although after Estonia I'm guessing it's (even) harder for them to justify it for the board above.

[logic]

Please, just hire a team manager! For God’s sake!!!!

Wow this will solve everything right?
They already have a team manager.

[krissucool]

Wow this will solve everything right?
They already have a team manager.

No it does not solve everything but if you have ever worked in big corporations where there are multiple departments doing their own for one common goal, you know how important leadership and pulling all things together for one common goal is.

Tänak and Neuville have both multiples times hinted or even outright said that the leadership is working, that they need a real team manager leading things and also hinted that Moncet is not the man for that.

It does not fix everything but it sure would be a good start.

[er88]

What rumours?Service park rumours.

I'm sure Dirtfish will report them in the coming weeks unless they're paid off to shut up by Hyundai.

[seb_sh]

Service park rumours.

I'm sure Dirtfish will report them in the coming weeks unless they're paid off to shut up by Hyundai.

Well there were also rumors Tanak would retire before this year and we saw how that went. Let's see, I hope Hyundai gets their act together and don't retire that would kind of kill the WRC.

[logic]

Service park rumours.

I'm sure Dirtfish will report them in the coming weeks unless they're paid off to shut up by Hyundai.

lolol

[flat_right]

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-k-rovanpera-i-havent-seen-rain-anywhere-else

Interestingly straight question

Q:
You feel confident that it is possible to turn this around. Some people are questioning whether you or Hyundai are continuing. Are you sure that Hyundai will continue in the WRC?
OT:
Hyundai is definitely going to continue, there is great support from Korea. For sure everybody wanted a lot, but let’s just say it needs some very straightforward changes in the general structure. We’re working on it, this year looks difficult but in long term it’s important for the sport as well we come back.

This quote is from Rally Estonia topic but I wanted to bring it here and add Ott's comments from Estonian Media.

Q: Rally Finland is already in a couple of weeks. Like always there will be a test. But what can you do more? What can you do with the info that you gathered from here?
OT: Well, there is a lot of info and we knew already from the beginning of the year that it will be difficult and we need to be more active and move forward. Let’s see, hopefully at some point the team will have a system and we can start moving. At the moment we have only collected information

Q: Jari-Matti Latvala said that he knows the formula what to do and there needs to be huge fundamental changes immediately. What do you think about his statement?
OT: Correct! However not with the car but other fundamental changes.

Q: But you also have to improve the car. You have said it yourself that there is no speed and things are not as they are supposed to be?
OT: The knowledge of how to improve the car is there, but it is simply not possible to implement it at the moment.

[WRCStan]

Prediction: Hyundai continue in 2023 and 2024 as contractually obliged to. They might choose to back one cheap driver but Neuville, Tanak, the mega-structure and a great deal of current personnel are offskis by the sounds of it. Solberg will continue in one of the two cars, with senior as team principal.

[mknight]

I don't have any inside knowledge, but it could turn out completely different as well.
Like completely changing team structure.

Also any fresh and decisive leadership that doesn't have Adamo's Solberg fanboy glasses is likely to charge Solbergs starts. He needs time to develop the ability to drive steady fast without a moment/crash or other drama every second stage. In last 1,5 years there hasn't been much development in that at all. Fixed program in same car in a championship with decent competition and without big pressure. Not half-season in still developing and unreliable car as a manu points scorer.

4th car in Rally1 might work, Rally2 Hyundai seems to be competetive now as well.

[skarderud]

Yoy can't run an operation as Hyundai WRC without serious leadership. What are they thinking?
Why is this a problem, i thougt Hyundai korea is a serious business, but looks not.
Maybe the problem is the asian way, if not the top dog tells the 2. top dog what to do, nothing happens?



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[WRCStan]

Also any fresh and decisive leadership that doesn't have Adamo's Solberg fanboy glasses is likely to charge Solbergs starts.

Isn't that the case already? Why would Monster be on the bonnet otherwise?

[mknight]

Well he wasn't driving any car in Sardinia (weird given he drove Portugal in Rally2) and Estonia+Finland combo was kind of certain no matter what. Both Ypres and Greece are much less clear.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak shoots down rumours...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/tanak-shoots-down-hyundai-wrc-exit-speculation-/10339823/

But then we never know what can happen if success still eludes them.

[AnttiL]

Isn't that the case already? Why would Monster be on the bonnet otherwise?

No Monster stickers on the car this year (except his own funded Portugal WRC2 start)

[wyler]

Also any fresh and decisive leadership that doesn't have Adamo's Solberg fanboy glasses is likely to charge Solbergs starts.

I'm pretty sure Adamo is not that much of a fan neither of junior nor of senior Solberg...

[flat_right]

I'm pretty sure Adamo is not that much of a fan neither of junior nor of senior Solberg...

Why do you think so? I mean they got the opportunity during Adamo's tenure.

[rallyfiend]

If you believe the rumours, Adamo banned Mummy and Daddy from being in the team areas on event, because they hang around their little prince too much.

The kid needs to learn to grow and develop by himself. He's 20. Does Mum and Dad really need to be around for recce etc etc?

[mknight]

It's not rumors. It was shown on the "team Solberg" reality TV that follows him during the year.
It was after Finland 2021 that P.Solberg was banned from the team service area.

That said it was also shown on the same series how it was Adamo "giving" him the (almost) full 2022 factory seat (also in Finland). It was also Adamo (in his own words) who "snap" decided to put Solberg in WRC car for Arctic 2021.

So it definitely seems Adamo was pushing Solberg into the car (to "counter" Rovanpera).
Problem is that Rovanpera had a few seasons in R5 to really develop. All this rushing just slows/hinders Oliver and instead of taking a step back they just push on.

[wyler]

It's not rumors. It was shown on the "team Solberg" reality TV that follows him during the year.
It was after Finland 2021 that P.Solberg was banned from the team service area.

That said it was also shown on the same series how it was Adamo "giving" him the (almost) full 2022 factory seat (also in Finland). It was also Adamo (in his own words) who "snap" decided to put Solberg in WRC car for Arctic 2021.

So it definitely seems Adamo was pushing Solberg into the car (to "counter" Rovanpera).


You're meddling a little bit.

it is not like Adamo decided everything on his own. he had to balance his ideas with his superior ones...

Adamo's snap decision on arctic proved corrected (probably the best display of Oliver so far), still, as you can see i.e after Safari last year, he was also convinced that was too early for a consistent program and had a different plan for developing the kid than his family.
Still they had some kind of leverage in the management of the team...

[wyler]

Why do you think so? I mean they got the opportunity during Adamo's tenure.

pretty much is all written above. i think adamo saw an opportunity to use solberg in specific "safe" or "spare" round (like arctic) both for results but mostly for hype, maintaining Sordo and others to have a consistent team.
Things went awry when Solberg clan used their leverage to gain space in opposition to Adamo's plan. I think a problem was also the lack of commitment from Solbergs to adamo customer r5-rally2 campain (they preferred family owned car, and looked for a top class program way more than developing the kid in lower class)

I remember rumors was to have Sordo in a team job as a kinda of tutor-role for the development of Solberg, which was around much less race time, and much more learning time, but this plan never happen it seems.

This and other major issues (late car approval and development, less decisional power,...) led adamo to leave.

[logic]

If you believe the rumours, Adamo banned Mummy and Daddy from being in the team areas on event, because they hang around their little prince too much.

The kid needs to learn to grow and develop by himself. He's 20. Does Mum and Dad really need to be around for recce etc etc?

This is not true

[logic]

It's not rumors. It was shown on the "team Solberg" reality TV that follows him during the year.
It was after Finland 2021 that P.Solberg was banned from the team service area.

That said it was also shown on the same series how it was Adamo "giving" him the (almost) full 2022 factory seat (also in Finland). It was also Adamo (in his own words) who "snap" decided to put Solberg in WRC car for Arctic 2021.

So it definitely seems Adamo was pushing Solberg into the car (to "counter" Rovanpera).
Problem is that Rovanpera had a few seasons in R5 to really develop. All this rushing just slows/hinders Oliver and instead of taking a step back they just push on.

that decision was made with some pressure

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-review-fundamental-issues-with-i20-n-wrc-car/10340131/

"We have a lot of work to do" what else is new?

[logic]

what kind of parts need the 6 months delivery time?? can't believe that .

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-fabia-rs-rally2-debut-delayed-by-production-issues/

You were saying??

[bomber21]

Generally speaking, it is not so nice to see Oliver always being surrounded by his family. They must leave him ALONE.

[skarderud]

Generally speaking, it is not so nice to see Oliver always being surrounded by his family. They must leave him ALONE.They are not a part of Olivers carriere, petter was home this weekend and now attending a hillclimb in northern Norway.

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[rallyfiend]

They are not a part of Olivers carriere, petter was home this weekend and now attending a hillclimb in northern Norway.

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Petter was definitely in Estonia.... He was interviewed on the telly....

[mknight]

They are not a part of Olivers carriere, petter was home this weekend and now attending a hillclimb in northern Norway.

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There was a live interview with P.Solberg on Allive from the service park in Estonia (think it was on Sunday morning). Talking about Olivers sideways jump (which was on Saturday).

[AnttiL]

On Wednesday evening

https://twitter.com/oliversolberg01/status/1547287169286406144?s=21&t=NdJAgx97U5PLDaZN2iNugg

[bomber21]

Peter is also always twitting about Oliver’s rallies etc. He shouldn’t, this behaviour does not allow Oliver to grow. It seems they are overprotective.

[skarderud]

Sorry, my bad. Wasnt following to much this weekend. Just saw a pick if his Citröen RX car ready for hillclimb on sunday, it is friday i think.

It is difficult to get a good balance of support probably, but i remember Petter was not in the tents of Hyundai anymore, still like that i presume?

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[Eli]

Question now is, have Hyundai done enough to keep Ott in the team for next year? Cause atm it doesn’t seem too convincing to leave for M-Sport when they stop their PET midway through the season.

[DrLill]

Judging by Rally Finland M-Sport have additional issues (reliability) in addition to having no resources for doing PET. I have thought all year that going to M-Sport would be better for Ott but after Finland I am not that certain anymore. There might be short term gains for next year but in general Hyundai seems like a much better choice.

[mknight]

Question now is, have Hyundai done enough to keep Ott in the team for next year? Cause atm it doesn’t seem too convincing to leave for M-Sport when they stop their PET midway through the season.

Yes I think they did. For him the reliability part will be most important.

At MSport reliability is still bad and development already stopped? Again I wonder what happened with the money Malcolm said he had last summer.
Might already be too late for them to attract any top driver now.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport (drivers) did an extensive test before Estonia and were very happy with the Puma. No PET for Finland was sensible given they quite similar events and they're running 5 cars.

And without Ford I doubt they have the budget to pay Tanak what he'd want to leave Hyundai anyway.

https://dirtfish.com/archive/m-sport-quietly-confident-for-estonia/

[pantealex]

M-Sport (drivers) did an extensive test before Estonia and were very happy with the Puma. No PET for Finland was sensible given they quite similar events and they're running 5 cars.



Car setup for Estonia and Finland is very different...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Car setup for Estonia and Finland is very different...

I wouldnt say very different. Plus M-Sport tested in Finland when developing the Puma so have a base set-up.

[ouvreur]

I wouldnt say very different.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/toyota-explains-asphalt-philosophy-needed-for-finland/

Tom Fowler would...


Plus M-Sport tested in Finland when developing the Puma so have a base set-up.

That may be so, but that was a while ago. I would hope that their car had developed a bit since they were there last. And that their entry drivers are going quicker than their development driver...

[logic]

I wouldnt say very different. Plus M-Sport tested in Finland when developing the Puma so have a base set-up.

Thats not how it works, every time you test you find something that either improves or makes the car worse, but when you combine all of them the combinations are endless, so because you tested in finland on a dev test it does not equate speed in a rally or to have a good PET. A dev test is VERY different to a PET test.

[skarderud]

I heard oliver had to use Neuville's set-up, that don't suit him, in Finland and croatia, thats the reason the car is "tail-happy".

Heard something about this "philosophy" was used to get rid of Mikkelsen and Paddon back in the days, make them look slow and crash-prones so they don't have good results to defend theire places in the team.

Is Hyundai trying to sabotage Olivers carriere? Or just get him out of the team?

Sordo don't want to many rallies, who else can they put into their car?



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[logic]

i heard oliver had to use neuville's set-up, that don't suit him, in finland and croatia, thats the reason the car is "tail-happy".

Heard something about this "philosophy" was used to get rid of mikkelsen and paddon back in the days, make them look slow and crash-prones so they don't have good results to defend theire places in the team.

Is hyundai trying to sabotage olivers carriere? Or just get him out of the team?

Sordo don't want to many rallies, who else can they put into their car?



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lololol

[ouvreur]

I heard oliver had to use Neuville's set-up, that don't suit him, in Finland and croatia, thats the reason the car is "tail-happy".

Heard something about this "philosophy" was used to get rid of Mikkelsen and Paddon back in the days, make them look slow and crash-prones so they don't have good results to defend theire places in the team.

Is Hyundai trying to sabotage Olivers carriere? Or just get him out of the team?

Sordo don't want to many rallies, who else can they put into their car?



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Man alive, where did you get a conspiracy theory like that from?

[Walach]

calm down guys, stop making it like you have never heard about setup so bad that it wilfuly shifts one gear up where others dont

[cali]

I heard oliver had to use Neuville's set-up, that don't suit him, in Finland and croatia, thats the reason the car is "tail-happy".

Heard something about this "philosophy" was used to get rid of Mikkelsen and Paddon back in the days, make them look slow and crash-prones so they don't have good results to defend theire places in the team.

Is Hyundai trying to sabotage Olivers carriere? Or just get him out of the team?

Sordo don't want to many rallies, who else can they put into their car?



Sent fra min SM-G950F via TapatalkSuninen

Crashing in the first corner is not cars fault, even if the setup is not for your liking. No excuses.

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[cali]

calm down guys, stop making it like you have never heard about setup so bad that it wilfuly shifts one gear up where others dontCmon if you know the car is not for your liking you don't go full crazy to the first corner. You know he was basically the only one who approached the corner in the 4th gear?

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[Eli]

So since this year's lost for them, what do they do for 2023 (assuming they continue), keep Oliver in the 3rd car? bring in Suninen? I mean, Sordo did say last year he wanted to retire at the end of this year, looks like a pickle, if they're interested in getting their title back.

[logic]

calm down guys, stop making it like you have never heard about setup so bad that it wilfuly shifts one gear up where others dont

First of all the driver picks the set up, so how are the engineers making it so bad? Use a bit of common sense before chatting.

[WRCStan]

So since this year's lost for them, what do they do for 2023 (assuming they continue), keep Oliver in the 3rd car? bring in Suninen? I mean, Sordo did say last year he wanted to retire at the end of this year, looks like a pickle, if they're interested in getting their title back.

Solberg in the first car, Suninen or Mikkelsen top candidates for the second. JMO

[skarderud]

Man alive, where did you get a conspiracy theory like that from?Well, from some close to the team, to say.

But i don't understand why, if you want to get rid of someone, just terminate the contract.

But i don't see an obvious candidate to step in at the 3.seat?
Have the new teamboss a favorite outside the team?

This is just what i heard, but it is written as a question, is it at all something in it?
If Oliver is out after ypres, we probably know its something in it.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Walach]

Cmon if you know the car is not for your liking you don't go full crazy to the first corner. You know he was basically the only one who approached the corner in the 4th gear?

First of all the driver picks the set up, so how are the engineers making it so bad? Use a bit of common sense before chatting.

My comment was an attempt at a joke, but apparently poor one :/

[rallyfiend]

My comment was an attempt at a joke, but apparently poor one :/

It was a good one.

I got it.

Even the slightest of view of the on-board camera shows that there was zero 'snap' of the car that put him off. He was in the wrong gear for God's sake....

He messed up in an inexcusable manner and cost the team dearly.

[becher]

I heard oliver had to use Neuville's set-up, that don't suit him, in Finland and croatia, thats the reason the car is "tail-happy".

Heard something about this "philosophy" was used to get rid of Mikkelsen and Paddon back in the days, make them look slow and crash-prones so they don't have good results to defend theire places in the team.

Is Hyundai trying to sabotage Olivers carriere? Or just get him out of the team?

Sordo don't want to many rallies, who else can they put into their car?



Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Yeah right....you sabotage a third of your entry because you don't like those guys, but you pay them big money regardless. Think for a moment, no one would be that stupid!

[focus206]

I heard oliver had to use Neuville's set-up, that don't suit him, in Finland and croatia, thats the reason the car is "tail-happy".

Heard something about this "philosophy" was used to get rid of Mikkelsen and Paddon back in the days, make them look slow and crash-prones so they don't have good results to defend theire places in the team.

Is Hyundai trying to sabotage Olivers carriere? Or just get him out of the team?

Sordo don't want to many rallies, who else can they put into their car?



Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

lol, here we go again with the Neuville-bashing pro-Mikkelsen fantasy posts to find excuses on why Mikkelsen was sacked after his poor Hyundai stint...

[mknight]

lol, here we go again with the Neuville-bashing pro-Mikkelsen fantasy posts to find excuses on why Mikkelsen was sacked after his poor Hyundai stint...

..and Paddon and Loeb. They all suddenly forgot how to drive. Loeb won the last rally in previous team (Catalunya 2018) and first in next (Monte 2022).

Some guys see Mikkelsen mentioned among 3 other drivers (Paddon and Solberg here) and go full retard. Back to the topic...

[mknight]

... on topic:

Every team has a limited number of resources. Be it money, people/hours or homologation jokers.

At some point things get prioritized.

When a driver is winning/taking podiums with the car the teams rarely prioritize using resources on a driver that struggles in a few rallies. Sometimes even out of fear of making the car worse for the driver that brings results. (Ex. Changing the car for Loeb while Neuville is winning with it).

Other examples are Lappi at Toyota 2018, Lappi again at Citroen 2019 (says it took the team half a year to finally make a diff he wanted, for sure was different for Ogier).

I don't believe anyone is doing this "on purpose" to get rid of a driver. But when asked to prioritize there clearly will be multiple levels and there can be personal reasons too.

Right now for example Hyundai would surely prioritize making the car good for Tanak, instead of making changes for Solberg. No need to "want to get rid of Solberg" for that.

[skarderud]

Don't shoot the Messenger, i just wrote what i has been told from a realible source, and asked question if that is possible.

I want the best drivers in the best possible tool to go as fast as possible. WRC is nowere near that these days.

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[logic]

... on topic:

Every team has a limited number of resources. Be it money, people/hours or homologation jokers.

At some point things get prioritized.

When a driver is winning/taking podiums with the car the teams rarely prioritize using resources on a driver that struggles in a few rallies. Sometimes even out of fear of making the car worse for the driver that brings results. (Ex. Changing the car for Loeb while Neuville is winning with it).

Other examples are Lappi at Toyota 2018, Lappi again at Citroen 2019 (says it took the team half a year to finally make a diff he wanted, for sure was different for Ogier).

I don't believe anyone is doing this "on purpose" to get rid of a driver. But when asked to prioritize there clearly will be multiple levels and there can be personal reasons too.

Right now for example Hyundai would surely prioritize making the car good for Tanak, instead of making changes for Solberg. No need to "want to get rid of Solberg" for that.

The last part is incorrect, no team develops a car for one driver, that makes litterally no sense.

With the first point about priortitizing resources on a driver that struggles, again, its a TEAM and they all share data, they all try each others setups at tests. When you see the end result, its the driver and driver alone, after a PET the driver has a debrief with the engineers before the set up is decided, this is from ramp angles, to damper spec, to spring rates, to anti roll bars, to engine/hybrid maps and the list goes on. When that car leaves service its the drivers choice of set up on that vehicle.

[focus206]

..and Paddon and Loeb. They all suddenly forgot how to drive. Loeb won the last rally in previous team (Catalunya 2018) and first in next (Monte 2022).

Some guys see Mikkelsen mentioned among 3 other drivers (Paddon and Solberg here) and go full retard. Back to the topic...

The only people who always go full retard in here are Mikkelsen superfans with Norwegian glasses on. Everybody knows Hyundai isn't the easiest car to drive and adapt, this isn't nearly enough of an excuse for Mikkelsen's poor performance and Solberg's terrible season so far.
Let alone the funny rumor that Oliver is being sabotaged or that it's the setup's fault, when we know the reason of his crash.

[WRCStan]

lol, here we go again with the Neuville-bashing pro-Mikkelsen fantasy posts to find excuses on why Mikkelsen was sacked after his poor Hyundai stint...


..and Paddon and Loeb. They all suddenly forgot how to drive. Loeb won the last rally in previous team (Catalunya 2018) and first in next (Monte 2022).

Some guys see Mikkelsen mentioned among 3 other drivers (Paddon and Solberg here) and go full retard. Back to the topic...


The only people who always go full retard in here are Mikkelsen superfans with Norwegian glasses on. Everybody knows Hyundai isn't the easiest car to drive and adapt, this isn't nearly enough of an excuse for Mikkelsen's poor performance and Solberg's terrible season so far.

Don't know if you (mknight) meant me for answering Eli's post, but clearly nobody else was having this ^ conversation recently apart from you guys.

[cali]

Don't know if you (mknight) meant me for answering Eli's post, but clearly nobody else was having this ^ conversation recently apart from you guys.There's very recent posts about Mikkelsen, just check the forum.

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[WRCStan]

There's very recent posts about Mikkelsen, just check the forum.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

OK thanks.

[Eli]

Sorry for stirring such a mess guys, was just curious if anyone here knows/knew what could their line-up look like for next year, because imho keeping young Solberg in the third car doesn't make much sense atm.

[WRCStan]

Sorry for stirring such a mess guys, was just curious if anyone here knows/knew what could their line-up look like for next year, because imho keeping young Solberg in the third car doesn't make much sense atm.

Anybody but Mikkelsen or Paddon IMO.

[mknight]

The last part is incorrect, no team develops a car for one driver, that makes litterally no sense.


Maybe the last part wasn't perfectly clear.

What I meant that if for example after Estonia Tanak doesn't like something on the car and Solberg doesn't like something else and the team only has time to look on one of those things, it is perfectly clear that they will look at the issue bothering Tanak.

That said I also disagree with what you write here. I really doubt Tanaks input during car development had same impact as Solbergs.

(none of this above explains why Solberg keeps doing the stupid things he does)

[cali]

Most logical is Suninen

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[skarderud]

I also think suninnen is the most obvious one, but is paddon a posibility? Close ties to Hyundai, but that's local importer?

Just hope Oliver can have a season in the WRC2 and not completely out.

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[Galev62]

Of course Oliver will have a Full season in wrc2 there is still a lot of money behind him. One thing i dont understand is that nowdays everyone is in such a rush to rally 1 cars before even gettin results in rally 2 (solberg/Fourmaux) not everyone can be like Rovanperä. Huttunen, Suninen and Mikkelsen are much better and reliable options in my opinion. Now solberg and Fourmaux have cost a lot of money in destroyed cars and no result to show for it

[mknight]

Sorry for stirring such a mess guys, was just curious if anyone here knows/knew what could their line-up look like for next year, because imho keeping young Solberg in the third car doesn't make much sense atm.

Sordo + Suninen if they can convince Sordo to keep going.

They might try to get Evans (how long is his contract?), who doesn't seem very happy at Toyota atm.

If none of these work out they are in trouble.

Paddon might get some chance after he has shown he can fight with top WRC2 guys (might happen).

[mknight]

One thing i dont understand is that nowdays everyone is in such a rush to rally 1 cars before even gettin results in rally 2 (solberg/Fourmaux) not everyone can be like Rovanperä.

Thing is that Solberg and Fourmaux are trying to be better than Rovanpera. He could beat anyone in R5 and got WRC2 title before moving.

[Galev62]

Best thing for oliver in my opinion now would be to stop rally for few months and only drive rallycross so he can start enjoy driving again. Second thing is that Petter and Pernilla need to be banned from where ever he is driving. One thing that could help is personal mental and physical coach from hintsa (same that f1 drivers use). Also the reality tv and everything needs to be stopped around him and make him only focus on improving himself. Next season fully in rally 2 with good testing and no surrounding pressure and factors. He is talented and last time we saw it was in 2019 with polo r5 . And mayby little bit in artic rally.

[Galev62]

Best thing for oliver in my opinion now would be to stop rally for few months and only drive rallycross so he can start enjoy driving again. Second thing is that Petter and Pernilla need to be banned from where ever he is driving. One thing that could help is personal mental and physical coach from hintsa (same that f1 drivers use). Also the reality tv and everything needs to be stopped around him and make him only focus on improving himself. Next season fully in rally 2 with good testing and no surrounding pressure and factors. He is talented and last time we saw it was in 2019 with polo r5 . And mayby little bit in artic rally.
I meant 2020 with the polo

[logic]

Maybe the last part wasn't perfectly clear.

What I meant that if for example after Estonia Tanak doesn't like something on the car and Solberg doesn't like something else and the team only has time to look on one of those things, it is perfectly clear that they will look at the issue bothering Tanak.

That said I also disagree with what you write here. I really doubt Tanaks input during car development had same impact as Solbergs.

(none of this above explains why Solberg keeps doing the stupid things he does)

Thing is these things are data driven, i can give you plenty examples but it would give away some stuff (insert wink here)

With regards to your last comment, see above.

[rallyfiend]

Sorry for stirring such a mess guys, was just curious if anyone here knows/knew what could their line-up look like for next year, because imho keeping young Solberg in the third car doesn't make much sense atm.

Ogier back to pair up with Neuville.

And a shared car with Suninen and Sordo.

[becher]

Suninen should have been in the car in the first place. Someone how fought for a podium in only his second start in a 17 spec car surly has more potential than what we saw in 2021.

[mknight]

Well he was in the car in Monza 2021, wasn't rally impressive.
But then again it was in the old tricky tarmac car (and by that time Solberg was already announced with Sordo in 3rd car).

[cali]

I also think suninnen is the most obvious one, but is paddon a posibility? Close ties to Hyundai, but that's local importer?

Just hope Oliver can have a season in the WRC2 and not completely out.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via TapatalkOliver is a talent, no doubt about it. He needs to gain experience and develop his skills and mental strength. Rally2 for 2 seasons in a i20.

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[cali]

Best thing for oliver in my opinion now would be to stop rally for few months and only drive rallycross so he can start enjoy driving again. Second thing is that Petter and Pernilla need to be banned from where ever he is driving. One thing that could help is personal mental and physical coach from hintsa (same that f1 drivers use). Also the reality tv and everything needs to be stopped around him and make him only focus on improving himself. Next season fully in rally 2 with good testing and no surrounding pressure and factors. He is talented and last time we saw it was in 2019 with polo r5 . And mayby little bit in artic rally.I think rallycross is the cause of his problems. You can't drive rally like a rallycross event. Maybe I'm wrong though

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[Galev62]

I think rallycross is the cause of his problems. You can't drive rally like a rallycross event. Maybe I'm wrong though

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
I dont know yes his driving style is very agressive but good drivers can adapt to anything for example Grönholm. Root cause is in my opinion that he isnt learning and discovering things himself. There is rumors that his father even made him setup last season. When he starts to learn things him self he can find the style that he is most comfortable in. One of the reason i think he is driving so agressive is the pressure he is under and he is just trying too hard and the Fast driving now doesnt come naturally.

[Danny0405]

For Hyundai, there are two strategies possible IMO depending on their assessment of their priorities:

- either they consider reliability is the main issue and 3rd driver a minor one and they follow with one young guy with potential who have already made a RC1 development season, expecting that he could skyrocket; and in that case, Solberg is the obvious choice even if his season is difficult (Knowing the car and no other young drivers with already RC1 experience has been convincing so far)

- or they consider that the reliability issue is already so important that they prefer to deal with an experienced driver. However, there is no that much option available and no real driver deserving a full-time spot: best option would probably to convince Sordo to make another year (he said that retirement is not 100% decided) to share a car with Mikkelsen, Lappi (if Toyota decides not to keep him) or Suninen.

Taking a rookie doesn’t sound very possible considering there is no big talent available and you know you would have to spend another development season.
But the driver market will probably not moved before one or two months: all the main drivers have a contract (and 2 seats already locked for Toyota and Hyundai), a lot of uncertainty with youngsters being quite disappointing and also probably some question marks about the future of the trio Sordo/Loeb/Ogier.
Belgium-Greece and New Zealand (and at last Catalunya because Japan is too late) will probably help some directors to take decisions.

[Galev62]

I dont know yes his driving style is very agressive but good drivers can adapt to anything for example Grönholm. Root cause is in my opinion that he isnt learning and discovering things himself. There is rumors that his father even made him setup last season. When he starts to learn things him self he can find the style that he is most comfortable in. One of the reason i think he is driving so agressive is the pressure he is under and he is just trying too hard and the Fast driving now doesnt come naturally.
Also co-driver change should be made in my opinion to someone more experienced than edmonsson and who will sometimes disagree with him and tell him if he is doing something wrong and not just say okay to everything.

[becher]

Well he was in the car in Monza 2021, wasn't rally impressive.
But then again it was in the old tricky tarmac car (and by that time Solberg was already announced with Sordo in 3rd car).

Well he was underwhelming in Monza, but he would have been a good substitute for Sordo on the fast gravel (and sweden) events. But yeah by that point Solberg was already confirmed.

[wyler]

to me, best way for hiunday would be to make a satellite "monster energy" team with Solberg family running it, 1 car for oliver development without pressure and maybe another one for paying youngsters.
Main team with 3rd car free for rotating even 10 drivers if they fit.

[ouvreur]

Also co-driver change should be made in my opinion to someone more experienced than edmonsson and who will sometimes disagree with him and tell him if he is doing something wrong and not just say okay to everything.

What makes you think Elliott 'just says okay' to everything? Co-drivers without brains don't end up in world rally cars.

That's pretty rude about a guy with more than enough experience at the top level (don't forget he was Elfyn's test and gravel crew co-driver for a couple of years).

It's not like Gus turned into an instant rally winner after replacing him with Chris Patterson...

[Galev62]

What makes you think Elliott 'just says okay' to everything? Co-drivers without brains don't end up in world rally cars.

That's pretty rude about a guy with more than enough experience at the top level (don't forget he was Elfyn's test and gravel crew co-driver for a couple of years).

It's not like Gus turned into an instant rally winner after replacing him with Chris Patterson...
Last time someone said something against oliver meaning Aaron he was immediately replaced. Someone like Sebastian Marshall would be really good option in my opinion

[EstWRC]

Marshall doesnt fit into the car

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Anyone hear the Dirtfish podcast where they back Solberg's driving talent with reference to his speed at a young age in a 600hp RX car. And also in the high-spec Subaru WRX STI on his first experience of American rallies ?

He clearly has a big talent and I cant see him taking a step back from Rally 1. Small mistakes are punished hard at this level and look how many mistakes even the mighty Tanak made over the years before he became the finished article...

[Galev62]

Marshall doesnt fit into the car
Is he too Tall or why?

[Galev62]

Anyone hear the Dirtfish podcast where they back Solberg's driving talent with reference to his speed at a young age in a 600hp RX car. And also in the high-spec Subaru WRX STI on his first experience of American rallies ?

He clearly has a big talent and I cant see him taking a step back from Rally 1. Small mistakes are punished hard at this level and look how many mistakes even the mighty Tanak made over the years before he became the finished article...
didn't Tanak take a step back in 2013 and 2014 to Subaru and fiesta r5 and it helped him a lot

[mknight]

to me, best way for hiunday would be to make a satellite "monster energy" team with Solberg family running it, 1 car for oliver development without pressure and maybe another one for paying youngsters.
Main team with 3rd car free for rotating even 10 drivers if they fit.

Agree, full season with 4th Rally1 like Katsuta the last 2 years should work if they insist on Rally1 or full season (not just 7 Events) in Rally2.



Anyone hear the Dirtfish podcast where they back Solberg's driving talent with reference to his speed at a young age in a 600hp RX car. And also in the high-spec Subaru WRX STI on his first experience of American rallies ?

He clearly has a big talent and I cant see him taking a step back from Rally 1. Small mistakes are punished hard at this level and look how many mistakes even the mighty Tanak made over the years before he became the finished article...

I hear it over and over again how driving around a small circuit in RX car shows he "can handle it". Lately I tend to agree with what other people wrote. That RX-mindset with full push every corner is actually a disadvantage at this point. He has shown he has top speed over a stage or a few sections, it's the balance of keeping less than 100% speed over multiple stages that is the problem.

Tanak and Evans were both kicked from WRC to R5 (or even "out" for Tanak) at MSport. They came back stronger, so I don't buy the "step back". Oliver only ever won a single rally in R5 on WRC level (Estonia 2020) and a single ERC rally (Liepaja 2020). So it's not like there is nothing to learn.

[denkimi]

I hear it over and over again how driving around a small circuit in RX car shows he "can handle it". Lately I tend to agree with what other people wrote. That RX-mindset with full push every corner is actually a disadvantage at this point. He has shown he has top speed over a stage or a few sections, it's the balance of keeping less than 100% speed over multiple stages that is the problem.

Indeed. We've seen kubica and raikkonen, they were used to even faster and more powerfull cars but they never made it to the top level in rallying.

Driving 5 corners 100 times requires a very different skillset than driving 1000 corners 2 times.

[becher]

Anyone hear the Dirtfish podcast where they back Solberg's driving talent with reference to his speed at a young age in a 600hp RX car. And also in the high-spec Subaru WRX STI on his first experience of American rallies ?

He clearly has a big talent and I cant see him taking a step back from Rally 1. Small mistakes are punished hard at this level and look how many mistakes even the mighty Tanak made over the years before he became the finished article...

Driving an RX car says nothing about the talent. That is the usual unscientific BS Dirtfish puts out every now and then. Every top rally driver should be able to handle a RX car around a RX circuit with one hand tied behind his back.

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-shifting-its-focus-to-2023/

Not anything new really, I think Moncet mentioned that last week when he was interviewed by Dirtfish that they're now focusing on getting the car ready for 2023.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Replies re Solberg's speed in an RX car may be fair enough, but what about himi n the ARC in a top Subaru ?

I dont think the problem is that he 'cant handle' a Rally1 car.

[becher]

Replies re Solberg's speed in an RX car may be fair enough, but what about himi n the ARC in a top Subaru ?

I dont think the problem is that he 'cant handle' a Rally1 car.

He can handle a Rally1 car for sure, but he definitely can't handle the Rally1 competition.

In all honesty, we ask for more Rally1 seats, but there are only 10-15 people in this world which would be "good enough" anyway.

[Eli]

He can handle a Rally1 car for sure, but he definitely can't handle the Rally1 competition.

In all honesty, we ask for more Rally1 seats, but there are only 10-15 people in this world which would be "good enough" anyway.

We ask for more Rally1 cars which in turn bring more seats but if we had let's say 12 cars in each event from 4 manufacturers I think we'd be in the sweet spot IMHO.

[AnttiL]

Replies re Solberg's speed in an RX car may be fair enough, but what about himi n the ARC in a top Subaru ?

What does that prove? The Subaru is a completely different car and the level of competition in ARA is different. When the ARA top guys come to WRC, they can hardly get into top 10.

[focus206]

What does that prove? The Subaru is a completely different car and the level of competition in ARA is different. When the ARA top guys come to WRC, they can hardly get into top 10.

And "hardly into top 10" is even being kind to ARA drivers. The top drivers are Pastrana, Block and Semenuk. We already saw Pastrana and Block in WRC, they would all struggle big time in any European national championship.
Dirtfish boosts ARA because they're Americans, but using ARA as a unit of measurement for Oliver is like saying Simone Tempestini's talent is outstanding because he's a 6 times Romanian rally champion.

[steve.mandzij]

He can handle a Rally1 car for sure, but he definitely can't handle the Rally1 competition.

In all honesty, we ask for more Rally1 seats, but there are only 10-15 people in this world which would be "good enough" anyway.I don't think he can handle a Rally1 car, not yet at least. He admitted it himself after his accident in Finland, in the DirtFish interview: "it's hard to find the balance between being *last* and *risking* being fast".

He needs a step back ASAP because that's a career death sentence statement.

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[becher]

I don't think he can handle a Rally1 car, not yet at least. He admitted it himself after his accident in Finland, in the DirtFish interview: "it's hard to find the balance between being *last* and *risking* being fast".

He needs a step back ASAP because that's a career death sentence statement.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Well he surly can't handle a Rally1 car at the requiered pace.

[Sergiow]

In the German rallye-magazin.de Chef technician Christian Loriaux is mentioning the overweight of the Hyundai WRC car. They did not want to make the mistake again when developing the i20 Rally1 and construct the chassis too weak. Has this been discussed before?

"After all, the engine was reliable. The Hyundai drivers shot through the Finnish forests at 197 km/h. Toyota only achieved 188. The engine performance of the turbo four-cylinder is only part of the truth, "one of the reasons for the high top speed is that we have too little downforce,"

The clever Belgian has long had some ideas up his sleeve to remedy the situation, but at the moment his drivers have to live with the fact that the i20 Rally1 is the most beautiful car in the field, but lacks the downforce.

But it's not just the aerodynamics that bother the team. The car drags around 30 kilos of excess weight and that costs about a tenth of a second per kilometer. That may not sound like much at first, but extrapolated to the entire Rally Finland it is over 30 seconds.

Among other things, Hyundai apparently did not want to make the mistake again when developing the i20 Rally1 and construct the chassis too weak. The experiences with the World Rally Car were too painful, the wheels of which buckled at the slightest contact with the rocks. However, there are more problems lurking in the new chassis, because the steering behavior of the car is not optimal and the drivers complain that the rear end likes to lead a life of its own, especially in medium-speed corners"

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/hyundai-und-das-uebergewicht-48856/

[skarderud]

The problem with the rear end is on change in october, new rear axel.
The main thing is that they "gambled" with the struts pointing front, and towards center of car in both directions, to get best weight distribution and center the mass.
They goes back to more straight upwards on the update.

Pardon my bad english if it didn't make sense.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

Reading that makes Thierrys and Tänaks efforts this season even more impressive IMO

[seb_sh]

Reading that makes Thierrys and Tänaks efforts this season even more impressive IMO

Indeed if they fix the issues we hopefully won't have 7 years of Rovanpera domination.

[flat_right]

The problem with the rear end is on change in october, new rear axel.
The main thing is that they "gambled" with the struts pointing front, and towards center of car in both directions, to get best weight distribution and center the mass.
They goes back to more straight upwards on the update.



Does anyone know or remember what type of suspension did Hyundai have before Rally1 cars? Tänak didn't like the handling of the car also back then (complaining many times + often risking with only one spare tyre). Maybe it was from totally other reasons but would be interesting to know.

[AMSS]

Does anyone know or remember what type of suspension did Hyundai have before Rally1 cars? Tänak didn't like the handling of the car also back then (complaining many times + often risking with only one spare tyre). Maybe it was from totally other reasons but would be interesting to know.

If you mean suspension supplier they switched to ZF Sachs I think during Tänaks first year with Hyundai, and have had it ever since

[flat_right]

Okay, thank you for the info. I think I didn't express myself clearly. As I'm not very familiar with the terminology what I actually meant how are the struts connected now compared to what they had then.

[flat_right]

Ott gave an interview to our local blog and there he said that as in Ypres, local knowledge plays a very important role, the full support from the team goes to Neuville. Also said that they haven't developed tarmac car after Croatia due to "different problems that were more critical".

[Eli]

Ott gave an interview to our local blog and there he said that as in Ypres, local knowledge plays a very important role, the full support from the team goes to Neuville. Also said that they haven't developed tarmac car after Croatia due to "different problems that were more critical".

"different problems", was that a reference to the reliability issues?

[AMSS]

Okay, thank you for the info. I think I didn't express myself clearly. As I'm not very familiar with the terminology what I actually meant how are the struts connected now compared to what they had then.

OK, the first 2017 car had the dampers situated direct on top of the upright both front and rear, mid season 2020 they changed the position to be next to the upright center and lower similar as Ford and Toyota. 2022 car has it next to the upright as well but the rear damper has a big angle with the upper pickup point being a lot more frontwards than in previous models. It`s clearly visible in jump shots and also in videos. What else is different in the geometry I don`t know but the damper angle is very much noticeable

[flat_right]

"different problems", was that a reference to the reliability issues?

It doesn't come out from the interview so we can only guess. My opinion would be these supply problems + this team structure problems what Ott and Thierry have been talking about. And also some focus on the gravel events.

[mknight]

Sordo doing recce for Ypres.

Sure it might be to get a feeling of stages to help other drivers with setup/tires etc.

More likely explanation is that he won't be fully retiring this year.

[rallyfiend]

Sordo doing recce for Ypres.

Sure it might be to get a feeling of stages to help other drivers with setup/tires etc.

More likely explanation is that he won't be fully retiring this year.

I've not seen it rumoured anywhere the Ypres would be on the calendar next year...

Maybe he's backup in case Oliver gets too scared to start?

[flat_right]

Maybe he's backup in case Oliver gets too scared to start?

Wouldn't it be too late for that?

[AnttiL]

Yeah, likely Sordo is recceing just to help others. Ypres has been a spare event now twice, and not planning to be on the calendar next year. If Sordo would now start the event, he wouldn't have had any testing or any tarmac runs in the new car.

[Eli]

I sincerely hope we see him for the rest of the season from Greece onwards.

[mknight]

I seem to recall that after Ypres last year they said it will join on regular basis from 2024 or something like that? But then they put it in this year as a quick insert, so that can happen also before that.

But yeah, probably more likely he is doing it just as support ("to help others") and not cause he plans to go on next year.

[wyler]

Sordo was rumored to have a contract with hiunday as kind of Oliver tutor, so maybe this is inside this "job". (but this was Adamo era, may be not)
Also he stepped in before as last minute replace for gravel crew (for Neuville in Monte i think), so i think is quite used to do recce as team job.

[flat_right]

Ott gave an interview to Estonian media. Key points from there

*PET was nothing special. Whole team has been tense solving other different problems.
*Rally Ypres car is the same as in Croatia, nothing new.
*Thinks rain showers can change the game like in Croatia.
*Again says that it is okay if team is helping and focusing on Thierry as it is his home rally
*As long we don’t have a structure in the team, nothing will happen. Currently there isn’t a new structure. They are working on it (Question was about if they have started to deal with the problems they have with the car)
*Moncet has enough tasks on his specialty and it would be better for all if he keeps focusing on those tasks (Question was about if his win in Finland can help Moncet to become an official team principal)
*Overall 2nd place isn’t a target. Maybe for Thierry but in OUR team we are very far from racing. We need to build a system. Hopefully this message will be finally heard, we are working on it.

The last one was interesting when he pointed out that this 2nd place would motivate Thierry but in OUR team things are not as they should. What could this "our" team mean?

[skarderud]

Just a thougt.

Has Adamo left hyundai to a complete chaos?
Maybe this is a result off his way of being a boss?
A "dictator" that run a workplace in fear is not a good boss.
A leader that is "pal" with everyone is not good eighter.
They need a boss that can find a way between.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[tcrown]

Just a thougt.

Has Adamo left hyundai to a complete chaos?
Maybe this is a result off his way of being a boss?
A "dictator" that run a workplace in fear is not a good boss.
A leader that is "pal" with everyone is not good eighter.
They need a boss that can find a way between.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk


Take it with a grain of salt, but I have heard from reliable sources, that Adamo didn't leave because the car was a dog or some other internal struggles. Apparently he left because of some serious health issues

[seb_sh]

Take it with a grain of salt, but I have heard from reliable sources, that Adamo didn't leave because the car was a dog or some other internal struggles. Apparently he left because of some serious health issues

We only know for sure Hyundai was the last to start development of the Rally1 and Adamo has hinted that was because he got the green light late from Korea. There can be all kinds of rumors, the fact is he was on the stages helping get Loeb's car on the trailer. I suspect it was more of an ego thing.

[EstWRC]

Apparently he left because of some serious health issues

That’s Adamos version on why left

And one more time, he didn’t leave, he was fired

[seb_sh]

It's one of the usual reasons given in the corporate world when management is changed. It's either that or "to spend more time with the family".

[Eli]

https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/2022/08/21/wrc-ypres-ott-tanak-a-un-contrat-pour-2023-et-prend-la-defense-de-thierry-neuville-YO6YNINZJZFXRFAHTWBNYV5N74/

According to this & this: https://www.dhnet.be/sports/moteurs/wrc/2022/08/18/wrc-ypres-julien-monset-boss-interimaire-de-hyundai-cest-dur-mentalement-de-ne-pas-savoir-ce-que-je-ferai-lundi-FDS2QYD73FCYLN5JYL2VPY3JGA/

Tänak will continue with the team for next year.

[Danny0405]

Would love to see Makinen coming in this Hyundai shitstorm :D

[flat_right]

Ott was asked that could these two wins in Finland and Belgium give Hyundai bosses an illusion that all is fine and we can win anyway? Ott replied that he will make sure there are no illusions :D

[flat_right]

It is from Estonian media but I can't understand who are they quoting (they say journalist over the sea (Finnish))

Q: Will Ott Tänak drive with Hyundai next year?
Moncet: I hope that Ott stays with us.

Q: Hope? Doesn't Hyundai have a contract with him?
Moncet: I don't make contracts with drivers and will never do it.

Q: So it is not certain that Tänak will continue?
Moncet: Here is nothing certain. There are conditions in the contract that may allow the driver to leave. This is the same in any other field, for example in football. But I hope that Ott belongs here and we will continue together.

In the same article they mention that "Finnish colleague" got a strong message from an English source that Tänak is moving to M-Sport.

So go figure... But in all the interviews that I watched this week where they discussed this Hyundai topic with Tänak that he seems in a way desperate (and has been quite a while like this). He would want to stay and is pushing the team to get the structure in place but he is not seeing the results.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/jysahtaako-rallin-mm-sarjassa-todellinen-siirtopommi-ott-tanakin-pomolta-mielenkiintoinen-vastaus/

It's here.

[cali]

It is from Estonian media but I can't understand who are they quoting (they say journalist over the sea (Finnish))

Q: Will Ott Tänak drive with Hyundai next year?
Moncet: I hope that Ott stays with us.

Q: Hope? Doesn't Hyundai have a contract with him?
Moncet: I don't make contracts with drivers and will never do it.

Q: So it is not certain that Tänak will continue?
Moncet: Here is nothing certain. There are conditions in the contract that may allow the driver to leave. This is the same in any other field, for example in football. But I hope that Ott belongs here and we will continue together.

In the same article they mention that "Finnish colleague" got a strong message from an English source that Tänak is moving to M-Sport.

So go figure... But in all the interviews that I watched this week where they discussed this Hyundai topic with Tänak that he seems in a way desperate (and has been quite a while like this). He would want to stay and is pushing the team to get the structure in place but he is not seeing the results.

The question is how much of that he will achieve at M-Sport as currently they are in shambles and even if he moves there he has basically no help from others unless Breen gets a kick out of this move and will be a good 2nd guy in the team. And M-Sport's funds will mostly go to Tänak's salary which also does not help to develop the car to be a winning machinery against TGR or HMSG which have either unlimited or bigger resources.
If this move goes through it will definitely lighten up the series so in that regard I'm actually waiting this to happen but remain sceptical about M-Sport chances in the long run unless they secure some miracle deals (with drivers and sponsors). Unlike most other drivers Tänak doesn't have RedBull backing as well which would cover most of his salary so it will be financially difficult for the Cumbrian side

[Eli]

The question is how much of that he will achieve at M-Sport as currently they are in shambles and even if he moves there he has basically no help from others unless Breen gets a kick out of this move and will be a good 2nd guy in the team. And M-Sport's funds will mostly go to Tänak's salary which also does not help to develop the car to be a winning machinery against TGR or HMSG which have either unlimited or bigger resources.
If this move goes through it will definitely lighten up the series so in that regard I'm actually waiting this to happen but remain sceptical about M-Sport chances in the long run unless they secure some miracle deals (with drivers and sponsors). Unlike most other drivers Tänak doesn't have RedBull backing as well which would cover most of his salary so it will be financially difficult for the Cumbrian side

If they can get the funding they will benefit from having Tänak in the team and it might also help Breen’s development as a driver, they have worked together up until this year, sure this is a different position but with Tänak showing the way it will (hopefully) help Breen the same way Ogier helped Tänak back in 2017.

[bandit12]

You all tend to forget one small but important nuance: Redgrey
This cash cow will disappear as soon as Tänak changes teams. Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car, and the Fiesta feels more like a second-echelon machine at the moment.

[mknight]

I don't quite see why Tanak would want to go to MSport right now.

Certainly not after last two rallies when he finally has results in Hyundai and MSport still has reliability issues and no (visible) development.

Thing is that contracts are often signed at different times of the year than we think. Often it is unexpectedly early. So maybe if he signed before Finland....

Surely it would be great for championship.

[cali]

If they can get the funding they will benefit from having Tänak in the team and it might also help Breen’s development as a driver, they have worked together up until this year, sure this is a different position but with Tänak showing the way it will (hopefully) help Breen the same way Ogier helped Tänak back in 2017.

I'm sure this move would help Breen. Still the financial burden remains...

[mknight]

You all tend to forget one small but important nuance: Redgrey
This cash cow will disappear as soon as Tänak changes teams. Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car, and the Fiesta feels more like a second-echelon machine at the moment.

Good point.

Now that the new Hyundai actually seems to perform well. Suninen said it was Redgrey who improved it.

[cali]

You all tend to forget one small but important nuance: Redgrey
This cash cow will disappear as soon as Tänak changes teams. Toyota doesn't have a Rally2 car, and the Fiesta feels more like a second-echelon machine at the moment.

I was thinking a one possible scenario as the Fiesta is quite old now what if this deal will contain developing new Rally 2 machinery and RedGrey has some rights to act as a satellite team or smth?

[mknight]

I was thinking a one possible scenario as the Fiesta is quite old now what if this deal will contain developing new Rally 2 machinery and RedGrey has some rights to act as a satellite team or smth?

But MSport already (recently) put money into MSport Poland.

[TypeR]

I have been thinking quite a while, that why RedGrey/Hyundai run so few cars wrc2 cars..? Even Teemu sits at home most of the rallies..
No cars?

Well something must be going on, because articles don't come out of nowhere(mostly, are exceptions ofc).. There aren't any about Neuville or Evans e.g.
Hopefully will hear something soon. If he had 100% signed 2023 contract with Hyundai, I bet he would have said it and concentrate on more important things.

[AnttiL]

I have been thinking quite a while, that why RedGrey/Hyundai run so few cars wrc2 cars..? Even Teemu sits at home most of the rallies..
No cars?

Well something must be going on, because articles don't come out of nowhere(mostly, are exceptions ofc).. There aren't any about Neuville or Evans e.g.
Hopefully will hear something soon. If he had 100% signed 2023 contract with Hyundai, I bet he would have said it and concentrate on more important things.

Early in the season they were still developing the car, and much of the resources were on developing the Rally1 car. Oliver's crash in Finland also took down one chassis.

BTW Jouhki said that Suninen is likely to continue with Hyundai next year, likely in the Rally2 program but also trying to get to the top class.

[Eli]

To add more fuel to the fire:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-moncet-shouldnt-lead-hyundai/

[mknight]

To add more fuel to the fire:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-moncet-shouldnt-lead-hyundai/

Points to DF for asking a direct question.

Quite interesting Tanak goes so far as saying this in public instead of "that's not for me to decide". He can hardly be in a better position though, with 2 wins in a row and (likely) negotiating about contract.

[flat_right]

For sure Ott can suggest and say if he is good for that or not (Moncet).

This is from the article Eli posted a couple of pages ago. There Moncet mirrors what he said to DF: "It's not my choice or my will to be in this position and especially to have to combine my job as engineer in charge of the engine department with that of team manager. It's hard mentally not to know what what you're going to do on Monday. To be waiting. To take the criticism. To hear that Hyundai needs a real boss. It's not my fault. I really wish they would take a decision once and for all in high places but it is not my responsibility..."

[wyler]

But MSport already (recently) put money into MSport Poland.

basically poland operation are from rally3 downward...so some room can still be there.

[AnttiL]

I was thinking a one possible scenario as the Fiesta is quite old now what if this deal will contain developing new Rally 2 machinery and RedGrey has some rights to act as a satellite team or smth?

Would be weird since doing development and renting/servicing Rally2 cars is a part of M-Sport's own business. This is completely different to Toyota and Hyundai factory teams.

[mknight]

For sure Ott can suggest and say if he is good for that or not (Moncet).

This is from the article Eli posted a couple of pages ago. There Moncet mirrors what he said to DF: "It's not my choice or my will to be in this position and especially to have to combine my job as engineer in charge of the engine department with that of team manager. It's hard mentally not to know what what you're going to do on Monday. To be waiting. To take the criticism. To hear that Hyundai needs a real boss. It's not my fault. I really wish they would take a decision once and for all in high places but it is not my responsibility..."

After Finland Moncet said the result proves he can be the team boss. Him lamenting that he is in a "semi-lead" position (in addition to another one) and wants a decision is understandable.

Now Tanak answers to Moncet by saying openly he shouldn't. Sure you can say anything, for example to your girlfriend, does not mean she will like you as much after you say it ;)

[cali]

Would be weird since doing development and renting/servicing Rally2 cars is a part of M-Sport's own business. This is completely different to Toyota and Hyundai factory teams.

Yes, agreed. Doesn't make much sense.

[bomber21]

Moncet is not respected as a leader by the Hyundai drivers so he cannot be the one.

As I have said before, for god’s sake, dear Koreans please just decide about team manager’s position!!!!!

[Eli]

Moncet is not respected as a leader by the Hyundai drivers so he cannot be the one.

As I have said before, for god’s sake, dear Koreans please just decide about team manager’s position!!!!!

And please don’t quit in 2023!

[WRCStan]

Is there anything to say the Redgrey deal goes into next year? It's pretty clear Hyundai want out of everything. Obv then not much of a pull for Tanak.

If they pull out of Rally1 manufacturers next two years I'm sure they'll be chased through the courts, it's not worth it so don't worry. They'll do the very minimum though with drivers who are willing to go unpaid or even pay IMO.

It's a shame if they go at all but 11 years is good going historically. They've got 2 manufacturers titles, their spell is done.

[mknight]

....They'll do the very minimum though with drivers who are willing to go unpaid or even pay IMO....


Did you accidentally switch to MSport?
Cause Hyundai is currently running likely the two most expensive drivers in WRC and prolonged their contract not that long ago (about a year).

(Not counting Ogier who is not doing whole season and Kalle who likely signed contract for less even though his current value might be higher)

[WRCStan]

Did you accidentally switch to MSport?
Cause Hyundai is currently running likely the two most expensive drivers in WRC and prolonged their contract not that long ago (about a year).

Currently, yes. A lot of changes happened in the last year and clearly they are not steaming on in the same way. They might prefer/mutually agree for Tanak to leave, I consider this done. Neuville seems part of the furniture at least and obviously if he has a solid contract it'll be honoured but I wouldn't be surprised to see them part ways. As for driver #2 and #3, they don't have to pay anybody, that's where we're at.

[ouvreur]

They might prefer/mutually agree for Tanak to leave, I consider this done.
A month ago, you would probably have been closer to being correct. Now? Where could he go? He would have to have mental problems to jump to M-Sport. That chance (and the desirability of making it happen) has long gone. He'll be driving an i20 for at least another year.

Neuville seems part of the furniture at least and obviously if he has a solid contract it'll be honoured but I wouldn't be surprised to see them part ways. As for driver #2 and #3, they don't have to pay anybody, that's where we're at.
I would guess (since that's all us armchair experts can do really) that Neuville's on the same sort of contract as Tanak. So the current lineup - well, two-thirds of it anyway - are set until the end of 2023. What happens then, and with the third car, is an open question.

If they are set on leaving, it will almost certainly be at the end of 2024 that it happens. It doesn't make much sense to pack up before then, it'd cost just as much to do that as to just run the car as they have been doing until the end of the homologation cycle. The parent company can easily afford it, and don't have a diesel emissions scandal hanging over them, like VW in 2016.

I don't see it with quite as much doom and gloom as it seems you do. Things aren't rosy, that's for sure, but despite that they've caught up pretty quickly with a team/car everyone feared would be utterly dominant (even beating them fair and square in their own back yard, winning a rally that neither of the previous leadership regimes ever managed), and far surpassed the team famous for adapting well to new regulations. The more time passes, the better their car seems to get.

As I said, things seemed in the toilet a month ago. If they'd put out a press release announcing their withdrawal, it wouldn't have been such a surprise. Now, though? It really looks like they've turned a corner. The car clearly isn't a bad one (if it ever was). If they can get their house in order, there's no reason they can't stay indefinitely. They need to as well, because it doesn't seem at all obvious where a new manufacturer would come from, and Ford look like they're flogging a dead horse with their current driver lineup and level of manufacturer investment.

[seb_sh]

I really hope Hyundai keeps going. The MSport/Citroen era was bad for the sport. If something like that happens congratulations Kalle for 2 or 3 titles.

[TypeR]

Eric Boullier new team boss..? Former Lotus and McLaren F1 team boss for nearly 10 years.

French guy.. more to Neuville's side?
https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/08/22/hyundai-motorsport-ecco-il-team-principal-sara-eric-boullier/

[EstWRC]

thats hell of a name if its true

[seb_sh]

At the moment he is the organizer if the French GP which is rumored to lose its place on the Formula 1 calendar.

[Eli]

Eric Boullier new team boss..? Former Lotus and McLaren F1 team boss for nearly 10 years.

French guy.. more to Neuville's side?
https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/08/22/hyundai-motorsport-ecco-il-team-principal-sara-eric-boullier/

Seems like the Italians know a thing or two, based on Dirtfish anyhow: https://dirtfish.com/rally/eric-boullier-emerges-as-frontrunner-to-lead-hyundai/

[cali]

Really dunno if this is good or bad news but in twitter some of the comments are not very encouraging :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Eli]

Really dunno if this is good or bad news but in twitter some of the comments are not very encouraging :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

You mean because of what happened with Kimi back in 2013?

[Danny0405]

Well, let’s see if the Boullier rumors are confirmed but at least, it would solve definitively the issue so that they can focus on next year. A bit difficult to evaluate his F1 results: in Lotus, the results were quite good and you have to take into account that the owner (Gerard Lopez) was really strange ... to say the least (you can see what he did in soccer, especially about finance, if you’re interested, in Lille, Mouscron, Bordeaux or Boavista). In McLaren, well, the team had issues before him and the Honda motor agreement was made before he arrived.

I will also have an opinion a bit different from a lot of people here about one guy: I think Moncet did the job (does not mean I think he should have full-time job necessarily but he does his best in a shitty situation he was not responsible for); ok, the results may seem short but I think it was really a crap job to cumulate his usual functions + the team director job with only a deputy status meaning he has no full authority, all of that with a car that was late in terms of development when he became interim team director.
For me, he was quite okay in the communication (no polemic raised on his side) and, even if it is still not perfect, the car has a lot improved in terms of reliability since the beginning of the season; with already 3 wins (and contrary to Sardinia where they could have lost everything with Tanak reliability issues, the 2 last ones has nothing to do with luck), they’ve saved the season and it’s a basis to work for next year. I don’t really think they could have done much more with how late they were this winter; the strategy about focusing on gravel was good as the car already shows some good speed on tarmac in Croatia and considering the remaining rounds and in the end, they still were able to win Ypres.

[TypeR]

Moncet continues as deputy team director, Hyundai confirms. Other stories are false and they needed to make it clear.

[cali]

Moncet continues as deputy team director, Hyundai confirms. Other stories are false and they needed to make it clear.At least no Boullier :D

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[ouvreur]

The thing is... Moncet really isn't doing that bad of a job.

In WRC, they have the same number of wins as 2021 already, with an improving car.

In WTCR, they're walking away with both titles.

Recently their ETCR car scored its first event win.

The Rally2 car is improving, and was fast enough to win in Finland.

Sure he isn't a dominant or outgoing character, but look at the stinking situation their 'charismatic' main man left them in... the very stinking situation Moncet has been put in temporary charge of and expected to perform miracles...

For all the talk around him, the criticism, the drivers claiming he isn't the right man, what more was he supposed to do? Turn water into wine?

[er88]

At least no Boullier :D

Sent from my DN2103 using TapatalkHopefully that's the case into the future as well

[wyler]

The thing is... Moncet really isn't doing that bad of a job.

In WRC, they have the same number of wins as 2021 already, with an improving car.

In WTCR, they're walking away with both titles.

Recently their ETCR car scored its first event win.

The Rally2 car is improving, and was fast enough to win in Finland.

Sure he isn't a dominant or outgoing character, but look at the stinking situation their 'charismatic' main man left them in... the very stinking situation Moncet has been put in temporary charge of and expected to perform miracles...

For all the talk around him, the criticism, the drivers claiming he isn't the right man, what more was he supposed to do? Turn water into wine?

manage drivers.
and board relationship.
other stuff is really about other people ( engine apart, of course)

[flat_right]

Maybe when Tänak is saying that Moncet is not suitable for that job, his is not meaning it literally but rather that if Moncet would be promoted, their engine department would be weaker. Hyundai has a very good engine and Toyota even had to bring upgraded version of their own to Rally Estonia to match Hyundai. So to keep this part going strong, Tänak wants someone else.

[ouvreur]

manage drivers.
and board relationship.
other stuff is really about other people ( engine apart, of course)
The problem is, he hasn't had a fair crack at it, at least when it comes to disciplining drivers. All along, he's been the 'deputy', the 'interim'... the caretaker, basically. Do you see Tanak or Neuville taking a bollocking from him?

Same with the 'board relationship', when that board isn't even prepared to make a decision about his own position, do you see him kicking their arse to get the 'organisation structure' sorted, as many have said is needed?

I think he's been given a thankless task these last 8 months, and yes, maybe all the progress has happened regardless of his effort. But frankly just to keep having a microphone shoved in front of his face when things have gone wrong, to put up with having fairly unpleasant things written about him, the team and the car in many places, and doing so without losing his cool in public, that's worth something to me. If I were making the decision, I'd at least let him have a go at the job full-time, without the 'deputy' hanging over him and limiting his credibility and power.

[WRCStan]

Ironically this new promotion to director puts him on the board. Probably the only guy to now turn up to any board meeting which is good progress. He can discuss with himself who should take his role, and how he can bring about necessary structural change in the meantime. He can set some targets. Actually nah I think it's a mistake and it's all bare minimum from Hyundai.

I agree though he has the power to truly embarrass Hyundai, so hope he's getting something in return.

[wyler]

The problem is, he hasn't had a fair crack at it, at least when it comes to disciplining drivers. All along, he's been the 'deputy', the 'interim'... the caretaker, basically. Do you see Tanak or Neuville taking a bollocking from him?

Same with the 'board relationship', when that board isn't even prepared to make a decision about his own position, do you see him kicking their arse to get the 'organisation structure' sorted, as many have said is needed?

I think he's been given a thankless task these last 8 months, and yes, maybe all the progress has happened regardless of his effort. But frankly just to keep having a microphone shoved in front of his face when things have gone wrong, to put up with having fairly unpleasant things written about him, the team and the car in many places, and doing so without losing his cool in public, that's worth something to me. If I were making the decision, I'd at least let him have a go at the job full-time, without the 'deputy' hanging over him and limiting his credibility and power.

agreed, but these are the same reasons why he is not the right guy. things will not change if they just make it stable and not deputy.
drivers already had a position on him, even public! they will not change their power relationship just because is not deputy anymore...

[240RS]

They do say form is temporary and class is permanent. And looking at the recent results, Hyundai badly need Ott to maintain his class and Neuville to regain his mojo. Spare a thought for MSport, who need anyone to score points.

Briefly:
1. Ott Tanak - Estonia 15pts, Finland 27, Belgium 27 - Total 69pts
2. Elfyn Evans - Estonia 22pts, Finland 15, Belgium 22 - Total 59pts
3. Rovanpera - Estonia 30pts, Finland 23, Belgium 5 - Total 58pts
4. Esepekka Lappi - Estonia 10pts, Finland 15, Belgium 15 - Total 40pts
5. Takamoto Katsuta - Estonia 11pts, Finland 8, Belgium 11 - Total 30pts
6. Thierry Neuville - Estonia 12pts, Finland 11, Begium 3 - Total 26pts
7. Craig Breen - Estonia 0pts, Finland 4pts, Begium 0pts - Total 4pts

[Eli]

I know most of the connection between the basis of the rally car and the rally car itself is mostly lost in the new Rally1 cars, however seeing this: https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/hyundai-ns-former-boss-is-pushing-for-a-second-gen-i20-n/ then maybe we'll still get to see Hyundai a while longer, fingers crossed!

[wyler]

at least for where i live, that car was a good success. so maybe wrc pr is starting to worth a bit for hiunday...

[WRCStan]

I know most of the connection between the basis of the rally car and the rally car itself is mostly lost in the new Rally1 cars, however seeing this: https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/hyundai-ns-former-boss-is-pushing-for-a-second-gen-i20-n/ then maybe we'll still get to see Hyundai a while longer, fingers crossed!

What shred of positivity did you find in that article to give you that optimism?

[Eli]

What shred of positivity did you find in that article to give you that optimism?

That they're still thinking about continuing the N brand's ICE lineup.

[dimviii]

MONCET RESPONDS TO TÄNAK’S HYUNDAI TEAM PRINCIPAL COMMENTS
TÄNAK EMPHATICALLY SAID MONCET SHOULDN'T LEAD HYUNDAI, WHILE NEUVILLE AND TÄNAK HAD A MISUNDERSTANDING IN YPRES TOO

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/moncet-responds-to-tanaks-hyundai-team-principal-comments/

[TypeR]

Hahaha..
Then 99% of people/fans had ,,a misunderstanding''.

Why Moncet so butthurt about Tänak's comment? Maybe he is also misunderstanding Tänak's statement.

Easy to see that Moncet is on ,,team Neuville'' side.. and maybe that's why they are so behind with the car and everything else in the team.

[skarderud]

Easy to see that Moncet is on ,,team Neuville'' side.. and maybe that's why they are so behind with the car and everything else in the team.

Maybe its time to dont do "team Neuville" in Hyundai, its clearly didn't worked for 7 years or so, sometimes you have to stop beat a dead horse.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[wyler]

Hahaha..
Then 99% of people/fans had ,,a misunderstanding''.

Why Moncet so butthurt about Tänak's comment? Maybe he is also misunderstanding Tänak's statement.

Easy to see that Moncet is on ,,team Neuville'' side.. and maybe that's why they are so behind with the car and everything else in the team.

i think moncet is very far from being team neuville...

[Sergiow]

Hyundai reviewing 2023 WRC driver line-up as Tanak speculation grows
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-reviewing-2023-wrc-driver-line-up-tanak-speculation-grows/10368786/
Maybe Mikkelsen next year again with the top Hyundai WRC car? Except his mishap at the SS1 EKO SSS Olympic Stadium, there is not much to complain about his very consistent performance this year in WRC2

[steve.mandzij]

Mikkelsen's Rally1 career is all but dead, but stranger things have happened...

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[manthey]

Mikkelsen's Rally1 career is all but dead, but stranger things have happened...

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk... And so... Could he return?

Inviato dal mio ELE-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

[seb_sh]

This is perhaps a more interesting question. If Tanak goes to MSport, who will replace him? To add fuel to the fire if I'm not mistaken Neuville is friends with Mikkelsen.

[Lead]

This is perhaps a more interesting question. If Tanak goes to MSport, who will replace him? To add fuel to the fire if I'm not mistaken Neuville is friends with Mikkelsen.

Yes, they are friends. Mikkelsen would be perfect back up guy for Neuville. This is Mikkelsen's best chance to get back in WRC1 cause there is no way Msport or Toyota would hire him.

[mknight]

... And so... Could he return?



As long as he is both the fastest and most consistent of those who are not driving Rally1 at the moment he could.


There is a limit to how many "future talents" you can have in a team at the same time. MSport is over that limit with current lineup, Hyundai kind of balancing on the edge.

In the extreme if Sordo retires and Tanak goes to MSport (I doubt both will happen) it's not like Hyundai will drive with Neuville and Solberg only. Suninen is clearly worse option than Mikkelsen, not better speed, worse reliability.

[steve.mandzij]

As long as he is both the fastest and most consistent of those who are not driving Rally1 at the moment he could.


There is a limit to how many "future talents" you can have in a team at the same time. MSport is over that limit with current lineup, Hyundai kind of balancing on the edge.

In the extreme if Sordo retires and Tanak goes to MSport (I doubt both will happen) it's not like Hyundai will drive with Neuville and Solberg only. Suninen is clearly worse option than Mikkelsen, not better speed, worse reliability.Well, he isn't the fastest and most consistent outside of Rally1, really. At the very least, he seems to think he's faster and more consistent than he really is.

What's for sure, is that there's a lack of both a clear-cut future talent ready for Rally1, and a solid, no-brainer former driver worth paying for.

[seb_sh]

Well, he isn't the fastest and most consistent outside of Rally1, really. At the very least, he seems to think he's faster and more consistent than he really is.

What's for sure, is that there's a lack of both a clear-cut future talent ready for Rally1, and a solid, no-brainer former driver worth paying for.

Indeed the list is a bit weak. Former WRC drivers who are active or semi active are Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Suninen, Lefebvre, Camilli, Meeke, Paddon... If you add top 3 championship positions from WRC2 and WRC3 from the last three years it's Hutunen, Tidemand, Kajetanowicz, Guerra, Bulacia, Rossel, Lindholm. Some are in both lists but didn't name them twice.

Of those Mikkelsen seems like he would be the best number 2 for Neuville, maybe Suninen if you want to promote from within, Bulacia, Rossel or Lindholm if you want to take a risk on a fresh face but Solberg is already there as a youngster.

[masa90]

Indeed the list is a bit weak. Former WRC drivers who are active or semi active are Mikkelsen, Ostberg, Suninen, Lefebvre, Camilli, Meeke, Paddon... If you add top 3 championship positions from WRC2 and WRC3 from the last three years it's Hutunen, Tidemand, Kajetanowicz, Guerra, Bulacia, Rossel, Lindholm. Some are in both lists but didn't name them twice.

Of those Mikkelsen seems like he would be the best number 2 for Neuville, maybe Suninen if you want to promote from within, Bulacia, Rossel or Lindholm if you want to take a risk on a fresh face but Solberg is already there as a youngster.

The point is, drivers like Mikkelsen and Ostberg sadly are already done. They were pretty good, but not number 1 driver material. Suninen still has a chance, but time is ticking fast. Lefebvre, Camilli, Tidemand no way. Meeke too old sadly, Paddon already done because so long out of the game.

They would be better trying someone like Huttunen, Lindholm or other "new talent". It might go horribly wrong but atleast there is a chance to win something there.

[mknight]

Well, he isn't the fastest and most consistent outside of Rally1, really. At the very least, he seems to think he's faster and more consistent than he really is.

What's for sure, is that there's a lack of both a clear-cut future talent ready for Rally1, and a solid, no-brainer former driver worth paying for.

Tell me who is faster and more consistent then? Numbers and result not what you or someone else thinks.

Suninen is not. Faster over 4 stages in Portugal, then slower in Sardinia, Estonia and Greece. Consistency is own story, after all Suninen was kicked from MSport after two first stage crashes last year, then topped it with PS stage on first WRC2 rally this year.

Lindholm has not been faster on a rally yet, but so far this year he is as consistent so he could get there. Nobody else is close.

[mknight]

or other "new talent". It might go horribly wrong but atleast there is a chance to win something there.

Lots of "new talent" this year. Fourmaux,(Greensmith), Loubet, Solberg, Huttunen in Finland.

Not really working out (yet?), rather going horribly wrong. As for chances to win only one was anywhere near (Loubet).

Hyundai isn't MSport so going with more."new talents" than Solberg would be very risky.

[bandit12]

Do you really think that Huttunen is faster than Suninen?

[masa90]

Lots of "new talent" this year. Fourmaux,(Greensmith), Loubet, Solberg, Huttunen in Finland.

Not really working out (yet?), rather going horribly wrong. As for chances to win only one was anywhere near (Loubet).

Hyundai isn't MSport so going with more."new talents" than Solberg would be very risky.


Lol. Hard to put Huttunen in there when he basically got no test and car broke down every few stage. Fourmax, Loubet and Solberg are indeed showing what happens when too soon. Greensmith is not gonna make it. Sad but true.



Do you really think that Huttunen is faster than Suninen?

Propably not, but hard to say when not given a chance.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In an interview with Autosprint, Moncet justified the team orders to maintain positions in Greece – which have caused a disagreement with Tänak – "because it was the first time we could do a triple 1-2-3 in Hyundai's history and we shouldn't risk it" .

They also state Moncet's opinion was that Tänak's title would not have vanished here (Greece), but it did in Sweden with a failure in the hybrid system.

Make what you will of that !

[TypeR]

Pointless to argue about that anymore..

Hyundai(Neuville/Sordo) gave away extra possible 5 points to Toyota and 8-9 points to Kalle..

,,team Neuville''..

Under Adamo they would have been much closer in points + putting ,,mind games'' pressure to Toyota and Kalle, but chose to do bs.

Neuville deserved the win(IF allowed, Tänak may have put him under huge pressure on Sunday), but ,,man's(team principal) gotta do, what man's gotta do..'' this time he didn't.

[EstWRC]

In an interview with Autosprint, Moncet justified the team orders to maintain positions in Greece – which have caused a disagreement with Tänak – "because it was the first time we could do a triple 1-2-3 in Hyundai's history and we shouldn't risk it" .

They also state Moncet's opinion was that Tänak's title would not have vanished here (Greece), but it did in Sweden with a failure in the hybrid system.

Make what you will of that !

Total bullshit.

It would have been 1-2-3 anyway if swapped positions, I don’t see a difference

That’s most the intriguing thing about this to me. When people say “but it’s the 1-2-3” what was important. It wouldn’t have changed anyway if they would have swapped

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Total bullshit.

It would have been 1-2-3 anyway if swapped positions, I don’t see a difference

That’s most the intriguing thing about this to me. When people say “but it’s the 1-2-3” what was important. It wouldn’t have changed anyway if they would have swapped

I don't know how difficult it would be swap the places in this particular rally situation. Team orders have happened before but I think its was more that it was taking the win off one driver to give to another that was more difficult.

If his words about Rally Sweden costing Tanak the title are correct, it seems they had already conceded that Tanaks chances were already gone. The points for the Manu Ch'ship battle are all they care about now.

[AnttiL]

I don't know how difficult it would be swap the places in this particular rally situation.

Just some road penalties for Neuville.
Simple and effective.

[flat_right]

In an interview with Autosprint, Moncet justified the team orders to maintain positions in Greece – which have caused a disagreement with Tänak – "because it was the first time we could do a triple 1-2-3 in Hyundai's history and we shouldn't risk it" .

They also state Moncet's opinion was that Tänak's title would not have vanished here (Greece), but it did in Sweden with a failure in the hybrid system.

Make what you will of that !

It is the only explanation they can give to this situation while not telling that they are team Neuville not team Hyundai.
Like it has said many times since then, 1-2-3 would have happened also if Tänak and Neuville changed the positions.

[seb_sh]

I suppose Moncet is saying they protected the result by telling the drivers to hold position while conveniently ignoring the possibility to swap them with road penalties. Tanak told it straight they wanted good PR for the 1-2-3 and not have any controversy with switching drivers.

[wyler]

It is the only explanation they can give to this situation while not telling that they are team Neuville not team Hyundai.
Like it has said many times since then, 1-2-3 would have happened also if Tänak and Neuville changed the positions.

i don't get it, they can reverse the argument and is still valid:
if the point is to have a 1-2-3, and doesn't matter who is p1, there's no need to change.

[flat_right]

i don't get it, they can reverse the argument and is still valid:
if the point is to have a 1-2-3, and doesn't matter who is p1, there's no need to change.

For Hyundai, maybe yes but for drivers championship it would have been crucial to swap the positions.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallit-fi-paikalla-hyundain-wrc-tahden-testeissa-tiimi-veti-edelleen-tiukkaa-linjaa/

Hyundai drivers have not been allowed to give comments to media in their test.

Hyundai is also apparently testing a new rear wing, and spectators in the test have been asked not to publish images/videos.

[Eli]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallit-fi-paikalla-hyundain-wrc-tahden-testeissa-tiimi-veti-edelleen-tiukkaa-linjaa/

Hyundai drivers have not been allowed to give comments to media in their test.

Hyundai is also apparently testing a new rear wing, and spectators in the test have been asked not to publish images/videos.

They did mention, I think it was Moncet, that they have new homologated parts to apply from the 1.10.22.

[wyler]

For Hyundai, maybe yes but for drivers championship it would have been crucial to swap the positions.

yep, but hiunday historically privileged brand over driver champ...

and crucial is a bit too strong, i'd agree with much less distance in standing, but let's see. if the championship ends with 30 point difference, it was not so crucial. if it ends under 10, then yes. time will tell.

[pantealex]

I'm surprised how many here wants to see Team orders ...

[mknight]

Something tells me the numbers would be far lower if Tanak was leading and Neuville was 2nd but with more points in the championship ;)

[Eli]

I'm surprised how many here wants to see Team orders ...

The exact opposite, Neuville deserved the win and I didn't expect them to issue any team orders, he would've won without them imho.

[NOT]

I'm surprised how many here wants to see Team orders ...

nobody wants team orders... everybody wants a fight till the end for the championship thats why they want team orders...

go watch tennis if you cannot comprehend simple fan logic...