Wrc Rally Argentina 2017

[mknight]

Actually Ogier increased his lead to 2nd placed in champ. Though yes Neuville is now closer.

He does seem to have real issues driving the Fiesta on twisty sections though, corner turn-in is like driving without active diff.

[Mrpengski]

What a finish! The battle to the finish was reminiscent of last year except this time we had to wait for the last car to come through, knowing Neuville had done all he could. I could not believe it when Evans touched the bridge and the next split came in! I feel for him and hope he comes back to fight in the front soon.

Must say the mood in the office on Friday afternoon was not all that upbeat, what with problems from the opening 2 stages. Now we have a great result but we obviously have some work to do, but at least we can do that with a smile on our faces :)

PS Does anyone know why my posts in the technical analysis thread must be approved by an admin, but not here?

[abxyz]

PS Does anyone know why my posts in the technical analysis thread must be approved by an admin, but not here?

Did you try to post a link with URL tags? The same happened to me in this thread, but posting links without tags works fine

[mknight]

Meeke's SS14 onboard is now on WRC+
Comparing with the first run he drives adifferent line and is 15 kph faster. Looks simply too wide touching the bank on left.

SS14 left, SS11 right

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That was tough on Evans but most driver's have such a close 2nd place before they win.

From virtually nowhere to a WRC win was a bit too good to be true.

Great improvement from him and now really justified his drive.

[Revman]

Out of breath. What a fabulous rally.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Jesus Christ, Elfyn..

And great job for Neuville.

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[Simmi]

Third closest WRC victory in history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Rally_Championship_records#Closest_w ins

Look how many of this list were in Argentina too. Top rally! Even if there were only 18 finishers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Has Meeke spoken yet about yesterday's massive crash ?

[N.O.T]

Perfomance wise Ogier goes from bad to worse.

[Rally Power]

Huge congrats to Neuville/Gilsoul and Hyundai. Evans did a remarkable job, resisting more than expected. No doubt he pushed hard on first leg, but we tend to forget that the 1m lead over Neuville was only possible due to day 1 starting order (just like Ostberg’s P2).

Somehow it’s nice to have different winners all the time, but if top drivers and their cars keep showing there’s a balance between them is there a point to keep the artificial day 1 starting rule? Maybe it’s a bit too soon to ask, but I bet this issue will be even more noticeable in Portugal and Italy.

[steve.mandzij]

we have a nice championship once more... Neuville less than 25 points from Ogier... thats one win one retirement... lets see.

BEST SEASON EVER DOGS... so far at least.
You won't mention Latvala's 16 point gap?

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[N.O.T]

You won't mention Latvala's 16 point gap?

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i do not care about fluke teams of nothingness.

[steve.mandzij]

What a rally, good God! The atmosphere at El Condor was intense, and Evans was clearly faster than Neuville from where I was standing. Gutted to see his chance of victory stripped by 0.7 seconds, but at the same time amazed by the gap. I truly think that Neuville's performance might be onto something now. He's a true championship contender.

As for the championship itself, it's awesome to see it so close! Latvala does worry me a bit though. He's been mediocre at best the past two rallies, but oh well. He's an awesome guy.

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[EightGear]

You won't mention Latvala's 16 point gap?

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Well to be fair I don't think any sane person genuinely believes Latvala will challenge for the title.

[stefanvv]

Huge congrats to Neuville/Gilsoul and Hyundai. Evans did a remarkable job, resisting more than expected. No doubt he pushed hard on first leg, but we tend to forget that the 1m lead over Neuville was only possible due to day 1 starting order (just like Ostberg’s P2).

Somehow it’s nice to have different winners all the time, but if top drivers and their cars keep showing there’s a balance between them is there a point to keep the artificial day 1 starting rule? Maybe it’s a bit too soon to ask, but I bet this issue will be even more noticeable in Portugal and Italy.

People justify Evans' Friday lead by starting order, tyres, etc, but tend to forget Evans started Saturday as strong as on Friday, then the problems began to appear and his lead melted like snow in May. Even today he had car issues also, we can encounter 2 mistakes for him - the puncture yesterday and the bridge today, probably the last decided the rally. Neuville was also lucky at one occasion yesterday, tremendous job by him though last 2 days. They both deserved the victory, but could be only 1, that's life.

[steve.mandzij]

Well to be fair I don't think any sane person genuinely believes Latvala will challenge for the title.
I must be insane then :(

Perhaps I'm too die-hard of a fan, but I really do think he still has a chance. In Mexico and here in Argentina he got hampered by a few mechanical issues and a puncture (I think he could have been third this time around). Corsica was strange though.

However he did net a well deserved Sweden win, and the Yaris definitely proved it has some speed, enough to battle with the big boys. He's historically done well in Portugal, Italy, Poland and Finland, so fingers crossed!

Question though: Latvala mentioned he hadn't driven El Condor and Mina Clavero properly since 2013. What happened? How come?

[Eli]

Is it correct that this is the first time since 2009 that a man who's name isn't Sebastien wins back to back victories?

[Francis44]

"Latvala" and "well in Portugal" are words that should never be in the same sentence. In fact I think historically Portugal is he's worst Rally.

[AnttiL]

Meeke's SS14 onboard is now on WRC+
Comparing with the first run he drives adifferent line and is 15 kph faster. Looks simply too wide touching the bank on left.

SS14 left, SS11 right

https://youtu.be/VmwgNVNdSdU

Video of inspecting the car afterwards

[Eli]

what a rally, & what a season we've got on our hands, well done for Evans even though he lost & congrats to Neuville for snatching the win off him. Hopefully Citroen will comeback to the mix for the rest of the season and will stop crashing & stop having problems with the car for the rest of the season 'cause at the moment it looks like they will have the numbers 10/11/12 on their cars next year...

[Sulland]

Looks like Ogier is on a Manufacturer championship plan for Ford. If he succeeds I guess Wilson will get full support from Ford.
That is worth a lot!

[Eli]

I must be insane then :(

Perhaps I'm too die-hard of a fan, but I really do think he still has a chance. In Mexico and here in Argentina he got hampered by a few mechanical issues and a puncture (I think he could have been third this time around). Corsica was strange though.

However he did net a well deserved Sweden win, and the Yaris definitely proved it has some speed, enough to battle with the big boys. He's historically done well in Portugal, Italy, Poland and Finland, so fingers crossed!

Question though: Latvala mentioned he hadn't driven El Condor and Mina Clavero properly since 2013. What happened? How come?
In dry conditions that is, since then the stage was run in wet conditions.

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[steve.mandzij]

"Latvala" and "well in Portugal" are words that should never be in the same sentence. In fact I think historically Portugal is he's worst Rally.
Well, 2009 sticks out like a sore thumb, but he's won it a few times.

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[Eli]

Well, 2009 sticks out like a sore thumb, but he's won it a few times.

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He won the rally once, two years ago. 2009 probably was his worst time there, but now they're not going to the Algarve region anymore so should be better.

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[Simmi]

Somehow it’s nice to have different winners all the time, but if top drivers and their cars keep showing there’s a balance between them is there a point to keep the artificial day 1 starting rule? Maybe it’s a bit too soon to ask, but I bet this issue will be even more noticeable in Portugal and Italy.

Interesting - so you advocate moving back to qualifying?

I don't think the current way is too artificial to be honest. This has been the rule through some glory years of the sport. I'm not sure individual rally seedings at WRC level make sense.

[dimviii]

At the end of the #PowerStage @thierryneuville & @nicolasgilsoul

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r7DgEWAAAsO8o.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r7EaVWsAMnoan.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r7FVnXgAAqMj2.jpg

[dimviii]

Miikka Anttila‏*@MiikkaAnttila
If I would have to describe #RallyArgentina, I would use this pic. This was this morning at the starting line of "El Condor"! #Gracias


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-rzuLaWAAU23OD.jpg

[jparker]

Best WRC Sunday I had in a long while. I didn't expect such close fight, but it was nice surprise.
Anyway, congrats to both Neuville and Evans, great performance.

[abxyz]

Miikka Anttila‏*@MiikkaAnttila
If I would have to describe #RallyArgentina, I would use this pic. This was this morning at the starting line of "El Condor"! #Gracias

PIC

Makes you realize how ugly the WRC+ onboards are. I'm pretty sure the quality of them hasn't increased in years

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r5evQWAAAhawF.jpg

2017 Rally Argentina highlights by Citroën Racing... this will be a short video ! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWSAhINeF_c&feature=youtu.be

[AL14]

I must be insane then :(

Perhaps I'm too die-hard of a fan...

...Question though: Latvala mentioned he hadn't driven El Condor and Mina Clavero properly since 2013. What happened? How come?

Yes you are too die-hard :) but Jari is Jari, I like him too.
Latvala won Argentina in 2014 but it was all mud. In 2015 his Polo had mechanical issues in the middle of first pas at El Condor. In 2016 he crashed badly the day before and the car was very weak and he couldn't push to the maximum.


Well to be fair I don't think any sane person genuinely believes Latvala will challenge for the title.

I think not even him is thinking about the championship this year.


"Latvala" and "well in Portugal" are words that should never be in the same sentence. In fact I think historically Portugal is he's worst Rally.

Latvala has been a disaster in Portugal when it was up to the south of the region. Now it's in the north and he also won it in 2015.
Anyway both before and now he has always be fast in Portugal but often crashed.

[steve.mandzij]

Yes you are too die-hard :) but Jari is Jari, I like him too.
Latvala won Argentina in 2014 but it was all mud. In 2015 his Polo had mechanical issues in the middle of first pas at El Condor. In 2016 he crashed badly the day before and the car was very weak and he couldn't push to the maximum.



I think not even him is thinking about the championship this year.


He gave his hat away yesterday :)

Makes sense he'd win Argentina in the mud, considering his performance at GB. Also, I'll never forget the dread I felt when I heard his damper had popped out last year. That was, in my opinion, what started his career's downward spiral last year. He's back this year though.

After Sweden, he said he'd start thinking of the WDC, so there's that!

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[EightGear]

Citroen retired Breen during last service, so they 'can get a full quota of sealed spare parts for the next rallies.'

https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/858789611866345472

So they prefer this over 8 manufacturer points. Why? Are they afraid Meeke is going to roll 3 times in Portugal? Or does the sheik need his parts there?

[AL14]

He gave his hat away yesterday :)

Makes sense he'd win Argentina in the mud, considering his performance at GB. Also, I'll never forget the dread I felt when I heard his damper had popped out last year. That was, in my opinion, what started his career's downward spiral last year. He's back this year though.

After Sweden, he said he'd start thinking of the WDC, so there's that!

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Argentina 2014 was in my opinion the best rally ever for Jari-Matti. Even better than Finland wins. He outpaced Seb the whole weekend with same car and same conditions.
I think Sweden crash in 2015 has been the start of his downward spiral. Not that he has been near the top before with all those Sebs driving around... but in 2014 he made undoubtful improvements before getting lost again the next year.

[AL14]

Citroen retired Breen during last service, so they 'can get a full quota of sealed spare parts for the next rallies.'

https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/858789611866345472

So they prefer this over 8 manufacturer points. Why? Are they afraid Meeke is going to roll 3 times in Portugal? Or does the sheik need his parts there?

The way Citroen is handling his WRC campaign this year is embarassing.

[KKS]

quota of sealed spare parts
what a sealed spare parts? Only engine has limited number per season no?

[lnvs]

Citroen retired Breen during last service, so they 'can get a full quota of sealed spare parts for the next rallies.'

https://twitter.com/CitroenRacing/status/858789611866345472

So they prefer this over 8 manufacturer points. Why? Are they afraid Meeke is going to roll 3 times in Portugal? Or does the sheik need his parts there?2 points. Power Stage points doesn't count for manufacturer points.

***Well 6 to be exact because there was 3 Fords and 3 Hyundais ahead. These manufacturer points are too complicated. :confused:

[AL14]

"Hellooo team principal with underprforming driveeers... I'm still heeere and you know my phonenumber, do youu? :)"

http://www.autonewsinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/WRC-2015-ESPAGNE-ANDREAS-MIKKELSEN-600x399.jpg

[steve.mandzij]

Argentina 2014 was in my opinion the best rally ever for Jari-Matti. Even better than Finland wins. He outpaced Seb the whole weekend with same car and same conditions.
I think Sweden crash in 2015 has been the start of his downward spiral. Not that he has been near the top before with all those Sebs driving around... but in 2014 he made undoubtful improvements before getting lost again the next year.
You're right. Up until Sweden this year, he hadn't been himself since Corsica 2015. The switch to Toyota and having Makinen as team principal/mentor will surely help a lot. Who knows where he'd be if the Yaris was at Hyundai level?

I am near certain that I will live to see the day when Jari-Matti wins a world championship. He's been too close too many times not to win.

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[mknight]

I said it before and I will say it again, I get a bad feeling about the whole Citroen effort this year.
Let's list it again:
- driver picks in November
- spend a year preparing then don't have setup for Monte and Sweden (and admit it afterwards)
- only two cars on first 3 rallies when M-sport is up to 5
- have wrong suspension settings for Argentina that cause crashes (I claim it's also a lot about the drivers, but Citroen themselves blame setup, so let's follow them on that => shows they haven't prepared well?)

and now this.

Budget too low? Bad decisions on what to spend money on? Not good enough engineers? Bad management?

These are the serious questions I would ask if I were Citroen board member.

[eib1]

Meeke:
https://www.facebook.com/WRC.RallyArgentina/videos/1063686617096548/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

[N.O.T]

I said it before and I will say it again, I get a bad feeling about the whole Citroen effort this year.
Let's list it again:
- driver picks in November
- spend a year preparing then don't have setup for Monte and Sweden (and admit it afterwards)
- only two cars on first 3 rallies when M-sport is up to 5
- have wrong suspension settings for Argentina that cause crashes (I claim it's also a lot about the drivers, but Citroen themselves blame setup, so let's follow them on that => shows they haven't prepared well?)

and now this.

Budget too low? Bad decisions on what to spend money on? Not good enough engineers? Bad management?

These are the serious questions I would ask if I were Citroen board member.

Arab team, what do you expect ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No word from or about Meeke since the crash yesterday... the silence is deafening.

[steve.mandzij]

Arab team, what do you expect ?
I think we both agree with Citroen being a shit team, but do you have any other argument against them apart from arab?

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[Fast Eddie WRC]

All they have put out is is this 'joke'...

Being passenger of a washing machine... #WRC #RallyArgentina #strongcar https://t.co/8Y92UZ7ZGB

[AndyRAC]

#Strongcar... It will need to be if they haven't sorted out the suspension/handling issues by Finland.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

but do you have any other argument against them apart from arab?



Funny I thought the Arabs specialised in tough, off-road, rallies... ;)

[N.O.T]

I think we both agree with Citroen being a shit team, but do you have any other argument against them apart from arab?

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you do not need any other argument than that...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

M-Sport report:

http://www.m-sport.co.uk/m-sport-news/fiesta-rs-wrc/double-podium-for-m-sport-in-argentina

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@DMACK_Tyres
Dear @rallyargentina have you checked that the new 2017 @OfficialWRC cars will fit through here!! #sizematters https://t.co/jRh8D1rLHY

@ElfynEvans I heard it was a bit of a tight squeeze 😉 #jinxed https://t.co/9ISgqSa5e9

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r6DaRXYAA1yNK.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r6DaoXkAYzJ2l.jpg

[SubaruNorway]

No word from or about Meeke since the crash yesterday... the silence is deafening.

Probably just got on the soft edge of the road trying to open up the 6 right tightens 5, if it wasn't a puncture. A lot of mud on the outside of the next one

[Simmi]

***Well 6 to be exact because there was 3 Fords and 3 Hyundais ahead. These manufacturer points are too complicated. :confused:

To settle my own curiosity - Citroen gave up 6 points with Breen right? I've seen some saying 8 but I don't think this can be right? Although I do normally make one mistake every time I try to work out the manu points.

[stefanvv]

To settle my own curiosity - Citroen gave up 6 points with Breen right? I've seen some saying 8 but I don't think this can be right? Although I do normally make one mistake every time I try to work out the manu points.

6 points they are: Hyndai - 25+10; M-Sport - 18+15; Toyota - 12+8.

[dimviii]

http://www.fia.com/news/wrc-tneuville-it-was-pretty-amazing

[dimviii]

Νeuville is the only one who has scored fastest stage times at all rallies,and has the most stage wins this year,no surprise.
Surprise is that Evans is the second best driver at stage wins till now.
http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/

[mknight]

Off course there are tire and road-cleaning effects that will influence this kind of statistics, specially as long as the numbers are low.

What I find really interesting is how Neuville has basically all wins for Hyundai. Might be interesting to do second-order statistics looking on number of 2nd and 3rd places and who was 2-3 when Neuville won.

[dimviii]

Neuville hot moment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD5JLATb6Bs

[KKS]

I think we both agree with Citroen being a shit team, but do you have any other argument against them apart from arab?

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if you still didn't recognize that in WRC take part at least:
- one village finish team
- arab team of nowhere

in next episodes we must see what was prepared for shity always cracked fiesta's team and nopowersteering Hyundai's :D

[AL14]

Νeuville is the only one who has scored fastest stage times at all rallies,and has the most stage wins this year,no surprise.
Surprise is that Evans is the second best driver at stage wins till now.
http://planetemarcus.com/saison-wrc/

Neuville is going to badly regret that stupid error in Sweden. Very badly.

[KKS]

http://www.fia.com/news/wrc-tneuville-it-was-pretty-amazing
Ott.... :D Brilliant!

[SubaruNorway]

Ott.... :D Brilliant!

13:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4OykdP2MjU&t=0s

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Probably just got on the soft edge of the road trying to open up the 6 right tightens 5, if it wasn't a puncture. A lot of mud on the outside of the next one

Whatever the reason there has been nothing said.

There could be real disharmony in the team with driver blaming the car and manager blaming the driver...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier comments:
http://media.sebastien-ogier.com/en/a-rally-that-fell-short-of-expectations-but-fourteen-points-that-count.html

[AL14]

Ogier comments:
http://media.sebastien-ogier.com/en/a-rally-that-fell-short-of-expectations-but-fourteen-points-that-count.html

:bonce:

[AnttiL]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-r6DaRXYAA1yNK.jpg
I wondered how Hänninen has so many stages leading a rally but it was because he lead during the two cancelled stages in Mexico.

EDIT: actually nevermind, he did lead for two rounds of a super special and that figure shows two, not four

[Rally Power]

Whatever the reason there has been nothing said.

There could be real disharmony in the team with driver blaming the car and manager blaming the driver...

Jesus Eddie, you should start writing TV soap operas scripts…

[Rally Power]

I think we both agree with Citroen being a shit team, but do you have any other argument against them apart from arab?


Yep, a shit team that most likely will win next 2 or 3 rally's...come on guys, give them a break.

Btw, in case the forum idiot manage to confuse someone: they're French, with Abu Dhabi sponsorship.

[Rally Power]

Interesting - so you advocate moving back to qualifying?
I don't think the current way is too artificial to be honest. This has been the rule through some glory years of the sport. I'm not sure individual rally seedings at WRC level make sense.

Not advocating, just wondering if it’s still necessary. The two days rule was a desperate attempt to break Ogier domination and the current one helps to prevent another driver/car superiority in a less unfair way, besides giving 2nd level drivers a chance to shine, but with an even field like we’re having this year probably the qualifying is the most reasonable choice and the closest to the sport spirit: the fastest crew wins, without rules aid.

Yep, this was an entertaining rally with another frantic ending, but hearing people saying that the result was unfair and Evans deserved to win (some even said Neuville robbed him) seems a bit nuts. Who was more robbed? Evans, that lost the advantage he took from the starting rule or top drivers like Neuville, Tanak and Ogier that were forced to start day 2 more than 1m behind?

[steve.mandzij]

Yep, a shit team that most likely will win next 2 or 3 rally's...come on guys, give them a break.

Btw, in case the forum idiot manage to confuse someone: they're French, with Abu Dhabi sponsorship.
Logically, they won't. Meeke is ridiculously unreliable and Lefebvre is stupidly slow. Breen might have a chance, but he relies on the C3 not acting up. The team's in a bit of a mess.

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[Rally Power]

Logically, they won't. Meeke is ridiculously unreliable and Lefebvre is stupidly slow. Breen might have a chance, but he relies on the C3 not acting up. The team's in a bit of a mess.

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You're forgetting they'll have the best starting order on the next events. Besides, the C3 is fantastic, Breen is a future champ and Meeke, with his 'on the ditch or at the podium' motto, is the most spectacular driver around. No doubt they'll manage to sort it out. Fingers crossed for them!

[mknight]

Yep, a shit team that most likely will win next 2 or 3 rally's...come on guys, give them a break.

Btw, in case the forum idiot manage to confuse someone: they're French, with Abu Dhabi sponsorship.

It maybe be that they win a few rallies.

But cmon it's the most successful manufacturer since 2000. Now we are 5 rallies into the season, and they have 0 chance for any of the titles. Their best driver is on 7th place and they last in manufacturer points, even compared with Toyota who never entered more than 2 cars and are new this year.

Surely its reasonable to expect a bit more after they took a year off preparing?

[stefanvv]

This starting order advantage talk is getting tiresome. It is only 1 day, and not the longest one.

[Watson]

This starting order advantage talk is getting tiresome. It is only 1 day, and not the longest one.
Also now that the Championship standings are more representative to the actual strength of the drivers the disadvantage is more even in the top flight. Neuville now starts as third which doesn't serve him much better road conditions than the first starter that is Ogier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jesus Eddie, you should start writing TV soap operas scripts…

Only saying what I see and the lack of comment since from team & driver speaks volumes..

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2890/33913789700_434eca0317_b.jpg

[AL14]

Only saying what I see and the lack of comment since from team & driver speaks volumes..

No press release, no statements. Nothing.
Something is "boiling" inside the pan for sure.

[stefanvv]

Neuville now starts as third which doesn't serve him much better road conditions than the first starter that is Ogier.

Of course, but I was more to the Citroen advantage in Argentina. Breen started 6th, Meeke 7th, and still they couldn't do anything significant. We shouldn't expect miracles on next rallies either.

[EstWRC]

You're forgetting they'll have the best starting order on the next events. Besides, the C3 is fantastic, Breen is a future champ and Meeke, with his 'on the ditch or at the podium' motto, is the most spectacular driver around. No doubt they'll manage to sort it out. Fingers crossed for them!

BEHOLD with this! every time this forum is talking someone being future champ my eyes are bleeding and it jinxes the driver, Paddon being the latest one.

[Watson]

BEHOLD with this! every time this forum is talking someone being future champ my eyes are bleeding and it jinxes the driver, Paddon being the latest one.
Well Tanak is looking really strong this seas... kidding :P

[dimviii]

new video with Meekes 2nd roll.They are lucky they didn't hurt.
https://twitter.com/RallySolo

[dimviii]

https://www.redbull.tv/live/AP-1Q84GRBED1W11/segment/AP-1QJDJ4AT11W11/recap-argentina-day-1

https://www.redbull.tv/live/AP-1Q84GRBED1W11/segment/AP-1QJDJAYMS1W11/recap-argentina-day-2

https://www.redbull.tv/live/AP-1Q84GRBED1W11/segment/AP-1QJDHRNQD1W11/recap-argentina-day-3

[Watson]

new video with Meekes 2nd roll.They are lucky they didn't hurt.
https://twitter.com/RallySolo

Analog to their road cars Citroens' rally cars these days may be dull, slow and have rubbish handling but they are very safe.

[dimviii]

insane moment with Meeke,that we haven't see.
https://www.facebook.com/atkarlip1/posts/1880794005495112

[Myrvold]

insane moment with Meeke,that we haven't see.
https://www.facebook.com/atkarlip1/posts/1880794005495112

That's from the first stage and the onboard that was posted here, right?

[Franky]

insane moment with Meeke,that we haven't see.
https://www.facebook.com/atkarlip1/posts/1880794005495112

That car really likes gymnastics

[dimviii]

That's from the first stage and the onboard that was posted here, right?

don't know,but I d like to see more cars from this point,to see how they behave.

edit at French forum said is from stage 2 about 1km from start.

#7
Meeke Kris - Nagle Paul
"The only stage in the loop where we'll get some cleaning. A big moment on a big bump near the start - it just launched the car. Otherwise a good stage." Meeke's team-mate Craig Breen reports a similar incident.

[Norm75]

Of course, but I was more to the Citroen advantage in Argentina. Breen started 6th, Meeke 7th, and still they couldn't do anything significant. We shouldn't expect miracles on next rallies either.meeke was in second before first off, and set fastest times before second off. The car works, but has a tendency to behave weird over some bumps.
Meekes second off was complete driver error in my opinion, way too wide into the corner. Meeke will either win it or bin it.

[stefanvv]

meeke was in second before first off, and set fastest times before second off. The car works, but has a tendency to behave weird over some bumps.
Meekes second off was complete driver error in my opinion, way too wide into the corner. Meeke will either win it or bin it.

That's fine, but my original post was that starting order is over hyped. No miracles will happen if someone starts 10th first day, that's it.

[mknight]

That's from the first stage and the onboard that was posted here, right?

Yes.

If you watch onboard from same spot Neuville's car behaves very much the same, even though he brakes down a little bit. Meeke is almost flat-out. Ogier's doesn't really lift cause he brakes before the dip and adjusts the line slightly.

Meeke's first roll is in many ways the same. His, Breen's and Neuville's and a few other cars start flying, Latvala and Sordo's don't cause they avoid it.

So if C3 is "bad" then I20 is "bad" in very much the same way and just won the rally.

[macebig]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQj7zyLtHog
As I have mentioned during the Swedish Rally, the C3 has exactly the same quirk as the C4.Lifting up the front under acceleration and during jumps.Its probably a case of the French thinking that because that thing worked back then, why won't it now?

[wrc2017]

Meeke SS2

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=621319194720807&id=259882317531165&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2FDefiendeLosR allyesvivelo%2Fvideos%2F621319194720807%2F&_rdr

[wrc2017]

Yes.

If you watch onboard from same spot Neuville's car behaves very much the same, even though he brakes down a little bit. Meeke is almost flat-out. Ogier's doesn't really lift cause he brakes before the dip and adjusts the line slightly.

Meeke's first roll is in many ways the same. His, Breen's and Neuville's and a few other cars start flying, Latvala and Sordo's don't cause they avoid it.

So if C3 is "bad" then I20 is "bad" in very much the same way and just won the rally.

You know nothing about internal problems Citroen having with the C3. Thats a fact.

[smsgrafica]

Only saying what I see and the lack of comment since from team & driver speaks volumes..

"We have the capacity to achieve our target, i.e. win the rally", commented Yves Matton, Citroën Racing Team Principal. "Kris recorded a series of fastest and second fastest times, which illustrates that the C3 WRC has the necessary pace. Similarly, Craig's times on Sunday's leg – right in the middle of the fight for the overall win – provide further confirmation of this. And yet, we haven't managed to turn that pace into a good result here. Since the start of the season, we've paid a very heavy price each time there have been obstacles in our path. We are going to keep working hard and not give up, because we are convinced that our efforts will eventually start paying off. Our approach will remain aggressive: rather than aiming for a result in the World Championship, we want to win rallies and that means a certain level of risk-taking."

Among the few pleasing aspects of the weekend, the great job done by the mechanics came top of the list. The repairs done to Kris Meeke's C3 WRC after his off on Friday will go down as one of the great feats of the Red Army's technical team. "Our mechanics have undoubtedly formed the best rally team for the last fifteen years," emphasised Yves Matton. "They worked tirelessly to repair the car, which was obviously back in perfect condition since Kris scored two stage wins on Saturday. So it's sad that their commitment and hard work weren't more generously rewarded. It's always a shame to lose a car that has restarted under Rally2 rules to another off."

Citroën Racing Media Report

[Franky]

Is that an automatic translation or does Citroen really call it's mechanics the Red Army?

[Norm75]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQj7zyLtHog
As I have mentioned during the Swedish Rally, the C3 has exactly the same quirk as the C4.Lifting up the front under acceleration and during jumps.Its probably a case of the French thinking that because that thing worked back then, why won't it now?Maybe the car doesn't have enough downforce on the front end. Every other manufacturer chooses a more box design wheel arch, kind of reminiscent of group b. Citroen started out that way with the c3 but changed wheel arch design later in development. All other cars look more aero aggressive, Citroen looks to have good aero at the rear but not so much at front, maybe making the car unstable over bumps.

[mknight]

You know nothing about internal problems Citroen having with the C3. Thats a fact.

That's true, never claimed otherwise.

What is also a fact is that on the two bumps it behaves similarly to I20. The small differences can be down to the different observed speed, braking and/or setup. It's not like the car behaves entirely different.

[EstWRC]

i havent watched the onboards yet but someone in estonian forum said that Tänak took the same line as Meeke in SS2 but was 17km/h slower there, perhaps this is the difference between crashing and not? im just guessing not a specialist

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Words from Matton (eventually) are less than convincing. Anything yet from Meeke ?

[Simmi]

Words from Matton (eventually) are less than convincing. Anything yet from Meeke ?

I think it's clear it was a serious accident and both Kris and Paul had their bell rung a bit. Lucky boys. Would guess they've been having medical checks. Maybe an overnight in hospital. Not sure - https://www.instagram.com/p/BTj4k7Ylwti/?taken-by=krismeeke&hl=en

What are you looking for them to say?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think it's clear it was a serious accident and both Kris and Paul had their bell rung a bit. Lucky boys. Would guess they've been having medical checks. Maybe an overnight in hospital. Not sure - https://www.instagram.com/p/BTj4k7Ylwti/?taken-by=krismeeke&hl=en

What are you looking for them to say?

I'm not, thats the point. They cant say much after another big off as he will either blame the car or himself and neither will be beneficial.

[Simmi]

I'm not, thats the point. They cant say much after another big off as he will either blame the car or himself and neither will be beneficial.

Aye. I genuinely just think they are happy to be okay after that one. They are lucky too there weren't larger protruding rocks and things like that. May take some time to get back up to speed in Portugal.

[AnttiL]

Aye. I genuinely just think they are happy to be okay after that one.

I'm guessing Vatanen's crash in 1985 was of the same scale, but the cars are a lot safer these days.

[Simmi]

Here we go - full Meeke interview: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129272/meeke-argentina-crash-my-biggest-ever

[jparker]

i havent watched the onboards yet but someone in estonian forum said that Tänak took the same line as Meeke in SS2 but was 17km/h slower there, perhaps this is the difference between crashing and not? im just guessing not a specialist

I don't think there is such specialist that can determine what actually caused the incident. Speed is not the only factor here, and comparing what other drivers did also doesn't mean much. It could very well be unique and unpredictable sequence of events that triggered it.

[Rally Power]

You know nothing about internal problems Citroen having with the C3. Thats a fact.

If you know something why don't you share with us?

[Hartusvuori]

Here we go - full Meeke interview: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129272/meeke-argentina-crash-my-biggest-ever

It did not roll 14 times. 6 or 7 full rolls and a half on top.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So Meeke basically just said that this was his biggest ever crash but they were uninjured... so that's alright then !

He seems to have become the new Colin McCrash... Krash Meeke.

Can he really carry on like this, only finishing about 1 rally in 4 ?

[Eli]

So Meeke basically just said that this was his biggest ever crash but they were uninjured... so that's alright then !

He seems to have become the new Colin McCrash... Krash Meeke.

Can he really carry on like this, only finishing about 1 rally in 4 ?
Nope but if he continues like this he will find himself in retirement sooner than expected...

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[JAM]

Ott Tanak at the end of rally:

"We all know that maybe sometimes Thierry is not the smartest guy (laughs). Normally he does not go very safe so it is not easy to close the gap with him..."

http://www.fia.com/news/wrc-tneuville-it-was-pretty-amazing

[er88]

So Meeke basically just said that this was his biggest ever crash but they were uninjured... so that's alright then !

He seems to have become the new Colin McCrash... Krash Meeke.

Can he really carry on like this, only finishing about 1 rally in 4 ?
Tbf he'd have had two wins in a row this season if it wasn't for the engine blowing up in Corsica, and I'm pretty sure he will win at least one of the next two or three rallies as well. The reality is that Citroen have no championship ambitions this season, they said before the year started that they wanted to win some rallies and prepare for a full on championship assault in 2018. The biggest problem people have had is having too high expectations for Meeke at the start of the year. He'll be really quick, he'll probably be in the top two or three drivers at the end of the year in terms of total wins, and he'll also crash and retire a lot. It's hardly unexpected.

Citroën's plan sadly didn't alter even with VW withdrawing, but Lefebvre won't be there next year so you'll see one of Andreas or Ogier in that team alongside Meeke and Breen imo. And hopefully next year after collecting all the data from this year's rallies and learning from their mistakes, Citroen will solve the set up issues that hampered them in Monte and Sweden, fix the few small reliability issues they've had and be able to maximise the potential of the car they've built. I still think that the C3 has the highest ceiling out of all the cars, and when the set up is right it's the quickest. In basically every test video we see the car looks rapid and the most impressive but they can't seem to translate that speed in testing to actual rally conditions.

[Tarmop]

Videos don`t tell us anything about the performance. You can`t measure 0,... s/km losses etc from a video, that is probably made from many different clips and on a short road that they drive for the whole day. And also there`s the truth that what is spectacular to watch and seems quick, isn`t normally the fastest way. I don`t say they have a bad car, but also nothing to brag with. They took a whole year to build and test that car and apart from Meeke`s crazy driving (which on a good day has brought him victories but sadly too oftenly ended with tears) they are still last. We also don`t know what would have happened in Corsica if the engine hadn`t failed.

[gorganl2000]

well...i followed argentina closely and like many have said before, i really enjoyed the battle between Evans and Neuville. In all honesty i wanted each to win for different reasons; Evan's first victory, Neuville's championship chase. Special mention goes to Latvala, Tanak, Ogier and Breen, they all had problems but tried their best to manage them. It looks like Latvala, Tanak and Neuville are maturing and understanding that if things are not going according to plan that its still important to gather points for both the driver's and manufacturer's championships...hopefully by mentioning that i did not jinx them lol.

with regards to Meeke, i hold my thoughts for now until things settle, what i will say is that i'm glad both him and Paul were not hurt as that's most important.

[dimviii]

Tbf he'd have had two wins in a row this season if it wasn't for the engine blowing up in Corsica, and I'm pretty sure he will win at least one of the next two or three rallies as well. The reality is that Citroen have no championship ambitions this season, they said before the year started that they wanted to win some rallies and prepare for a full on championship assault in 2018. The biggest problem people have had is having too high expectations for Meeke at the start of the year. He'll be really quick, he'll probably be in the top two or three drivers at the end of the year in terms of total wins, and he'll also crash and retire a lot. It's hardly unexpected.

Citroën's plan sadly didn't alter even with VW withdrawing, but Lefebvre won't be there next year so you'll see one of Andreas or Ogier in that team alongside Meeke and Breen imo. And hopefully next year after collecting all the data from this year's rallies and learning from their mistakes, Citroen will solve the set up issues that hampered them in Monte and Sweden, fix the few small reliability issues they've had and be able to maximise the potential of the car they've built. I still think that the C3 has the highest ceiling out of all the cars, and when the set up is right it's the quickest. In basically every test video we see the car looks rapid and the most impressive but they can't seem to translate that speed in testing to actual rally conditions.

very well said.

[rayh_mx]

He seems to have become the new Colin McCrash... Krash Meeke.


Then... Jesus Christ, Krash

[KKS]

Of course, but I was more to the Citroen advantage in Argentina. Breen started 6th, Meeke 7th, and still they couldn't do anything significant. We shouldn't expect miracles on next rallies either.
Really? Meeke was 4 out of 4 times on TOP3 fastest stage times on Saturday and 2 of 4 fastest times!

[stefanvv]

Really? Meeke was 4 out of 4 times on TOP3 fastest stage times on Saturday and 2 of 4 fastest times!

You don't follow the discussion, I'm not going to continue it. I was talking about the start order on Friday.

[wrc2017]

So Meeke basically just said that this was his biggest ever crash but they were uninjured... so that's alright then !

He seems to have become the new Colin McCrash... Krash Meeke.

Can he really carry on like this, only finishing about 1 rally in 4 ?

Can you be a big more constructive, instead of harping on like a tabloid newspaper?

Monte - Car setup to low
Sweden - Diff Issue
Mexico - Win
Corsica - Leading, engine
Argentina - 2nd till going off, suspected damper issue, own accident etc etc etc.

I'd rather have his record that some others.

[wrc2017]

Maybe the car doesn't have enough downforce on the front end. Every other manufacturer chooses a more box design wheel arch, kind of reminiscent of group b. Citroen started out that way with the c3 but changed wheel arch design later in development. All other cars look more aero aggressive, Citroen looks to have good aero at the rear but not so much at front, maybe making the car unstable over bumps.

I was just look at onboard from Meeke ss14, after reading his Autosport article today, where he said he turned in and the car understeered, you can see at 200kph the front of the car was 'wagging' from side to side at 200kph, as if it had no enough front down force?

[Simmi]

Can you be a big more constructive, instead of harping on like a tabloid newspaper?

Monte - Car setup to low
Sweden - Diff Issue
Mexico - Win
Corsica - Leading, engine
Argentina - 2nd till going off, suspected damper issue, own accident etc etc etc.

I'd rather have his record that some others.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a big Meeke supporter. But you can only make so many excuses. It is possible to have a diff or a damper/set up issue and not destroy your car.

[COD]

This video is a really good indicator, that Citroen has some issues on their setup. Maybe its suspension, maybe aero.

https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/videos/10155323020274973/

[Myrvold]

don't know,but I d like to see more cars from this point,to see how they behave.

edit at French forum said is from stage 2 about 1km from start.

#7
Meeke Kris - Nagle Paul
"The only stage in the loop where we'll get some cleaning. A big moment on a big bump near the start - it just launched the car. Otherwise a good stage." Meeke's team-mate Craig Breen reports a similar incident.


Ye, it's even on the Highlights on youtube :)
https://youtu.be/qUCYBrPg7fw?t=50s

[mknight]

Can you be a big more constructive, instead of harping on like a tabloid newspaper?

Monte - Car setup to low
Sweden - Diff Issue
Mexico - Win
Corsica - Leading, engine
Argentina - 2nd till going off, suspected damper issue, own accident etc etc etc.

I'd rather have his record that some others.

Monte - crash in 3rd stage, nothing to do with setup, just driving too fast on ice, after that mediocre results with only single 3rd place
Sweden - diff issue when he was in 5th place
Mexico - only manufacturer without problems, road position advantage, still crashed in last corner with huge lead and only massive luck made him win
Corsica - leading half-way yes, +1
Argentina - crash from 2nd with road position advantage, then second crash next day

Clearly the worst record from all the n1 drivers in all 4 teams.


Look at Latvala (never thought I would write something like that), he used to be very much the same. Now going only as fast as is safe and still getting good results, pushing when he's in control (Sweden).

Similarly huge development from Neuville in last 2 rallies. Starting "ok" on Friday then stepping up the pace on saturday and sunday.
Why can't he learn from them? It's not like the rally gets won by not lifting in the first jump of the rally (Argentina SS2), it's only lost there.

[wrc2017]

Monte - crash in 3rd stage, nothing to do with setup, just driving too fast on ice, after that mediocre results with only single 3rd place
Sweden - diff issue when he was in 5th place
Mexico - only manufacturer without problems, road position advantage, still crashed in last corner with huge lead and only massive luck made him win
Corsica - leading half-way yes, +1
Argentina - crash from 2nd with road position advantage, then second crash next day

Clearly the worst record from all the n1 drivers in all 4 teams.


Look at Latvala (never thought I would write something like that), he used to be very much the same. Now going only as fast as is safe and still getting good results, pushing when he's in control (Sweden).

Similarly huge development from Neuville in last 2 rallies. Starting "ok" on Friday then stepping up the pace on saturday and sunday.
Why can't he learn from them? It's not like the rally gets won by not lifting in the first jump of the rally (Argentina SS2), it's only lost there.

Why do you care what he does? You have an obvious vendetta. Your giving him zero room for any fundamental issues with the car, which are obvious to everyone but you.

Is Breen's pace is where is car is really at?

Meeke wasn't in Argentina last year, and the last time he done that stage was in the fog 2 years ago, where stage time was maybe 2 mins slower.

Why dont you give Paddon the same treatment? His record is far worse year, and no pace, and was the 'next coming' this time last year, and Neville was on the ropes.

At least Meeke has pace, and pace to win any rally on the calendar. You can only say that about Ogier and Neville.

[BigWorm]

Monte - crash in 3rd stage, nothing to do with setup, just driving too fast on ice, after that mediocre results with only single 3rd place
Sweden - diff issue when he was in 5th place
Mexico - only manufacturer without problems, road position advantage, still crashed in last corner with huge lead and only massive luck made him win
Corsica - leading half-way yes, +1
Argentina - crash from 2nd with road position advantage, then second crash next day

Clearly the worst record from all the n1 drivers in all 4 teams.


Look at Latvala (never thought I would write something like that), he used to be very much the same. Now going only as fast as is safe and still getting good results, pushing when he's in control (Sweden).

Similarly huge development from Neuville in last 2 rallies. Starting "ok" on Friday then stepping up the pace on saturday and sunday.
Why can't he learn from them? It's not like the rally gets won by not lifting in the first jump of the rally (Argentina SS2), it's only lost there.

Think Meeke's development phase is gone already. What we get from him now is what we will continue to get.

[mknight]

Why do you care what he does? You have an obvious vendetta. Your giving him zero room for any fundamental issues with the car, which are obvious to everyone but you.

Is Breen's pace is where is car is really at?

Meeke wasn't in Argentina last year, and the last time he done that stage was in the fog 2 years ago, where stage time was maybe 2 mins slower.

Why dont you give Paddon the same treatment? His record is far worse year, and no pace, and was the 'next coming' this time last year, and Neville was on the ropes.

At least Meeke has pace, and pace to win any rally on the calendar. You can only say that about Ogier and Neville.

For some reason Paddon has nowhere near the amount of people excusing his mistakes and when he crashes neither him nor his fans start blaming the car first.

[mknight]

This video is a really good indicator, that Citroen has some issues on their setup. Maybe its suspension, maybe aero.

https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/videos/10155323020274973/

Attached are the screens from WRC+ onboard over that spot.

Meeke left, Neuville right.

From bottom up:

1. Crest before bump:
Meeke 175kph, starting to brake, Neuville 138 kph, just stopped braking

2. Last frame before bump
Meeke 158 kph and on brakes, Neuville 155 kph and on throttle

3. Both in air, Meeke lifts nose a bit higher, but not very big difference. (the speed indicators are pointless in the air as they show how much the wheels spin)

=> The cars behaved pretty much the same, Meeke was on brakes with more weight on front which causes the extra lift.

[lnvs]

This video is a really good indicator, that Citroen has some issues on their setup. Maybe its suspension, maybe aero.

https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/videos/10155323020274973/Every car had more or less same issue there. Too fast on the first run, even those who braked had unnecessary hard jump. You can see from wrc+ onboards second run everyone braked hard there.

Why we see so much of these bump and compression related issues this year? Cars go faster than drivers can expect when they make the notes? To maximize aero these new generation cars run closer to the ground what they have used to. What was easy flat in the past seems to be hard hit to the under guard.

I don't know where Meeke found this Dakar buggies style going flat over every bump. Or maybe old cars could cope better. Not like he was the most consistent before...

[wrc2017]

Attached are the screens from WRC+ onboard over that spot.

Meeke left, Neuville right.

From bottom up:

1. Crest before bump:
Meeke 175kph, starting to brake, Neuville 138 kph, just stopped braking

2. Last frame before bump
Meeke 158 kph and on brakes, Neuville 155 kph and on throttle

3. Both in air, Meeke lifts nose a bit higher, but not very big difference. (the speed indicators are pointless in the air as they show how much the wheels spin)

=> The cars behaved pretty much the same, Meeke was on brakes with more weight on front which causes the extra lift.

OK Columbo

So you saying its not speed related? So Meeke wasnt going to fast. Thats that sorted.

Why did both C3's break the gearbox at the same place on the SS3, and others didnt. The chassis is too low, and the dampers are crashing straight through.

[wrc2017]

For some reason Paddon has nowhere near the amount of people excusing his mistakes and when he crashes neither him nor his fans start blaming the car first.
He team mate is winning rallys, and his pace is gone south. I wouldnt be complaining about the car either.

[GravelBen]

For some reason Paddon has nowhere near the amount of people excusing his mistakes and when he crashes neither him nor his fans start blaming the car first.


He team mate is winning rallys, and his pace is gone south. I wouldnt be complaining about the car either.

Breaking down his season so far (for the record)...

Monte - Crash. Would have continued if not for spectator fatality.
Sweden - 7th, power steering failure. Best stage placings 2nd & 3rd but did take a while to get his head back into it after Monte.
Mexico - 5th, engine (and other) problems. Was 3rd before engine problems.
Corsica - 6th (still not top pace on tarmac, but probably closer than last year).
Argentina - 6th. Weird slow-motion roll in the middle of the road lost 2.5 minutes on friday, broken ARB saturday, power steering failure sunday. Won a couple of stages.

Guess you can blame the car for a fair bit of it then if you want to ;) and its not as bad as some suggest, hopefully his luck improves for the rest of the season though. I think we'll see more of the expected speed and results again before too long.

[N.O.T]

the problem with Paddon Meeke and all the other underperforming drivers is that there is a proven reliable fast ex-manufacturer driver without a car and a swap seems to be a no-brainer.

[sollitt]

Is this the one who tipped the car over in his 'guest' test drive?

[Franky]

Everyone keeps talking about Mikkelsen like he is a golden boy or sth. He has been behind the wheel of a non-Polo only once and of the three ex-VW crews only Latvala with a lot of testing (remember the milage he did before the end of the year in the Yaris) has managed to be constantly fast or as fast as the car can go. Ogier is still struggling and that's after inseason tests and five rallies. In reality Mikkelsen might be slower than Breen at the moment, unless going pedal to the metal.

[AnttiL]

Everyone keeps talking about Mikkelsen like he is a golden boy or sth. He has been behind the wheel of a non-Polo only once and of the three ex-VW crews only Latvala with a lot of testing (remember the milage he did before the end of the year in the Yaris) has managed to be constantly fast or as fast as the car can go. Ogier is still struggling and that's after inseason tests and five rallies. In reality Mikkelsen might be slower than Breen at the moment, unless going pedal to the metal.

Mikkelsen even said by himself that if he could get a Polo, he'd be fast out of the box, but on other cars he'd need to test a lot.

[N.O.T]

Is this the one who tipped the car over in his 'guest' test drive?

Yes.

[mknight]

OK Columbo

So you saying its not speed related? So Meeke wasnt going to fast. Thats that sorted.

Why did both C3's break the gearbox at the same place on the SS3, and others didnt. The chassis is too low, and the dampers are crashing straight through.

On SS2 Meeke and Neuville jumped very much the same... cause they had same speed yes. (small difference is due to braking, ref. picture) Which clearly was a bit too fast since the jump was close to crashing, which is why the drivers (who made it that far) went slower in second round. So yes he was going too fast, just as Neuville and quite many others. (Bertelli had huge moment there)

Breen broke gearbox in SS4, Meeke's gearbox was perfectly fine even after the roll. Again Neuville and a few others jumped very much the same with small difference due to line/braking etc. Neuville was extremely lucky not to roll just as Meeke did there. Check WRC+ (it's free now anyway).

[Rally Power]

Breen broke gearbox in SS4, Meeke's gearbox was perfectly fine even after the roll. Again Neuville and a few others jumped very much the same with small difference due to line/braking etc.

Hopefully there's no fundamental issue on the C3 and they've just missed to successfully adapt it to Argentina terrain, like they did previously in MC and Sweden.

Btw, this amateur video shows other views of the jump and other nice spots:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnx3M-8KdMM

[Norm75]

On SS2 Meeke and Neuville jumped very much the same...
So you keep saying. However, different cars. Different aero, different suspension settings, different ride height etc = different handling characteristics. Like comparing chalk and cheese. Or a pair of identical twins and expecting them to 'perform' exactly the same.

I think Citroens biggest mistake re Meeke, is when Matton said at the beginning of the season (and again last weekend) that their aim this year is to win rallies and not focus on championships until next year.
This basically has given Kris the green light to go flat out everywhere, everywhen.
While they have won a rally, and no doubt will win again, it also means Kris will throw it at the scenery a few times this year.
I don't know why a more measured approach was adopted for this year. They are the only manufacturer that took a year out to develop the car for this year (I am not including Toyota as they didn't have a yard stick to measure against with an older car) so should really have had one eye on a title this year.
If that is the aim next year then we might see a more measured performance from Meeke, rather than the win it or bin it mentality we are seeing so far this year.

[Norm75]

You don't follow the discussion, I'm not going to continue it. I was talking about the start order on Friday.
That does come across as a little arrogant. Are you suggesting the starting order made little difference on the Friday, or that Meeke and the C3 were underperforming. Either way the two front runners most of Friday had favourable starting positions.

[dimviii]

Meeke: 'World class' Evans Argentina tyre advantage talk unfair

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129295

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Can you be a big more constructive, instead of harping on like a tabloid newspaper?

Monte - Car setup to low
Sweden - Diff Issue
Mexico - Win
Corsica - Leading, engine
Argentina - 2nd till going off, suspected damper issue, own accident etc etc etc.

I'd rather have his record that some others.

New-boy wrc2017, this is a forum and provoking people to give their views (on Meeke) was my obvious intention.

It worked perfectly - thank you all, very interesting.

[stefanvv]

That does come across as a little arrogant.

No, I'm disappointed, not arrogant.


Are you suggesting the starting order made little difference on the Friday, or that Meeke and the C3 were underperforming. Either way the two front runners most of Friday had favourable starting positions.

If You read my previous posts, You'll understand what I was meaning. Continuing discussion in wrong direction with twisted words is pointless.

[Munkvy]

So you keep saying. However, different cars. Different aero, different suspension settings, different ride height etc = different handling characteristics. Like comparing chalk and cheese. Or a pair of identical twins and expecting them to 'perform' exactly the same.

I think Citroens biggest mistake re Meeke, is when Matton said at the beginning of the season (and again last weekend) that their aim this year is to win rallies and not focus on championships until next year.
This basically has given Kris the green light to go flat out everywhere, everywhen.
While they have won a rally, and no doubt will win again, it also means Kris will throw it at the scenery a few times this year.
I don't know why a more measured approach was adopted for this year. They are the only manufacturer that took a year out to develop the car for this year (I am not including Toyota as they didn't have a yard stick to measure against with an older car) so should really have had one eye on a title this year.
If that is the aim next year then we might see a more measured performance from Meeke, rather than the win it or bin it mentality we are seeing so far this year.

Can we really believe that when a manufacturer says they aren't aiming for the title this year? Which manufacturer has come out saying they aim to win it this year? Has any? Surely it's all PR bullsh*t...

[dimviii]

Neuville fined with 1000 euro because his Hyundai was missing rear view mirrors
http://www.rallyargentina.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Stewards-Decision-no2.pdf

[BigWorm]

Neuville fined with 1000 euro because his Hyundai was missing rear view mirrors
http://www.rallyargentina.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Stewards-Decision-no2.pdf

Underweight windows in Sardinia last year, missing rear view mirrors in Argentina this year!

[mknight]

It says he was missing them OUT of service and Nanda says that they forgot to put them on cause they had little time. Perfectly fine with a fine then.

[Mirek]

I tend not to agree with You. There are clearly given time penalties for being late from service. The rules state in which state the car has to leave the service. Therefore by this action Hyundai most likely avoided time penalty for Neuville and therefore took a clear advantage in the fight for later victory (maybe not intentionally, who knows). The decision can be seen as a dangerous precedent. Will other teams also leave service with unfinished cars to save themselves from time penalties? I hope not.

[stefanvv]

yeah, Hyundai are far from fair play, aren't they (Given the Paddon delayed start on Saturday also).

[Watson]

yeah, Hyundai are far from fair play, aren't they (Given the Paddon delayed start on Saturday also).
Could you please elaborate? What happened and who benefits/gets a disadvantage off that?

[stefanvv]

Could you please elaborate? What happened and who benefits/gets a disadvantage off that?

It's already discussed in this thread, search and find.

edit: Given there is not official statement from the team about this, I think there is nothing more to say about it.

[Watson]

Charming.

[sollitt]

I tend not to agree with You. There are clearly given time penalties for being late from service. The rules state in which state the car has to leave the service. Therefore by this action Hyundai most likely avoided time penalty for Neuville and therefore took a clear advantage in the fight for later victory (maybe not intentionally, who knows). The decision can be seen as a dangerous precedent. Will other teams also leave service with unfinished cars to save themselves from time penalties? I hope not.Mirek, I agree with you. Haven't there been severe penalties in the past for minor 'indiscretions' in respect of car compliance ( i.e ... A rock in the spare wheel well, under weight/over thin windscreens) ?

[GravelBen]

yeah, Hyundai are far from fair play, aren't they (Given the Paddon delayed start on Saturday also).


Could you please elaborate? What happened and who benefits/gets a disadvantage off that?

Paddon was delayed trying to fix a broken ARB, stefanvv is delusional and thinks it was a conspiracy to change his road position by one place.

[Mirek]

Even if they did it in purpose it would be legal (he was penalized for that) and definitely not the first time such thing happened.

[tommeke_B]

In the case with Neuville, but also in Sardinia last year, I'm wondering why the penalties for such things are not fixed. Shouldn't there be some published list of possible violations and penalties associated with it? The FIA doesn't seem to be always correct/consequent with penalties.

[Mirek]

Another point is that a car without mirrors is not road-legal, i.e. it is similar violation as driving on three wheels on public roads. It may be harsh but IMO car which is not legal shall not be allowed to leave service park.

[br21]

This is also interesting:
http://www.rallyargentina.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Stewards-Decision-no3.pdf

[stefanvv]

Paddon was delayed trying to fix a broken ARB

Ah ok then. No problem.

[Mirek]

This is also interesting:
http://www.rallyargentina.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Stewards-Decision-no3.pdf

I don't like how more and more such cases is being solved by a fine. It looks like they simply collect money. In the past crews were disqualified for outdated gloves etc. while these two cases were for sure more serious incidents both in safety and sporting point of view.

[dupanton]

I don't like how more and more such cases is being solved by a fine. It looks like they simply collect money. In the past crews were disqualified for outdated gloves etc. while these two cases were for sure more serious incidents both in safety and sporting point of view.

I agree. A spare wheel coming loose in case of a crash is not very safe... They apparently need money...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Paddon
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-0S6fpXsAAU9SZ.jpg

[Munkvy]

I don't like how more and more such cases is being solved by a fine. It looks like they simply collect money. In the past crews were disqualified for outdated gloves etc. while these two cases were for sure more serious incidents both in safety and sporting point of view.

How on earth is not having side mirrors a serious safety issue? The only time they are of use is when the car is clean, before the loop of stages. Plus the amount of time they get knocked off in stage, it really is being blown out of proportion. A fine is certainly reasonable, if a bit over the top really.

[stefanvv]

How on earth is not having side mirrors a serious safety issue?

Because it is precondition for accidents. If he is being overtaken by another car, they might crash together. Of course crash damage level can vary, but it is still a crash.

[Mirek]

How on earth is not having side mirrors a serious safety issue? The only time they are of use is when the car is clean, before the loop of stages. Plus the amount of time they get knocked off in stage, it really is being blown out of proportion. A fine is certainly reasonable, if a bit over the top really.

The cars go many kilometers in normal road traffic. For that reason they must be road legal. Have You ever tried to drive few kilometers in the traffic without mirrors? Come on, that's totally not safe. Besides that it's clearly written in the rules that they must have them.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Does SS9 is available on WRC+..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[SubaruNorway]

Does SS9 is available on WRC+..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

Does?

[EstWRC]

why dont you make an account, there are free codes every month? :)

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

why dont you make an account, there are free codes every month? :)
I'm already have. And I always stuck in the payment methods because I don't have a credit card nor a PayPal..

So far, my only free month experience was end of 2015 season free pass..

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[Munkvy]

The cars go many kilometers in normal road traffic. For that reason they must be road legal. Have You ever tried to drive few kilometers in the traffic without mirrors? Come on, that's totally not safe. Besides that it's clearly written in the rules that they must have them.

Yes I have, one of my rally cars doesn't have side mirrors as I keep knocking them off. And as I do compete in rallies as well as do accident investigation and scrutineering as a volunteer for motorsport on occasion, I do have some idea of what a serious safety issue is, and that's definitely not. If they hadn't tied the spare wheel down, that's a serious safety issue. Side mirrors aren't, so I believe a fine is reasonable in this situation.

[EstWRC]

nice aerial shots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8fJm_8OXKg

[SubaruNorway]

New video from Meek's 2nd roll
https://www.facebook.com/rallyHDofficial/videos/1918239328453077/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

[Fast Eddie WRC]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/EddieFocus/meeke_zpsy0nfoazk.jpg