Rally Sweden 2017 [Archive] - Page 8

danon

13th February 2017, 20:36

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16681620_1839998129608895_777482791475314546_n.jpg ?oh=a57b88feba9e4615d5a9b88109efd2f2&oe=5909454D
https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16684260_1839998332942208_1209632441533194196_n.jp g?oh=140bbccc3b8a49082bab455d397d79aa&oe=5932F401
https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16681879_1839997399608968_8199669197746049502_n.jp g?oh=ec2e77db0c81090ff636d0fd86672892&oe=58FFFB1F

Mirek

13th February 2017, 20:49

.Most common at such problems is suspension settings, programm at center diff, and rear diff hardwear(ramps/preloads)

Without knowing a shit I would bet on center diff behavior as most logical issue. The others shall be (at least theoretically) well known issues rather easy to solve with experience from previous years.

dimviii

13th February 2017, 20:55

Without knowing a shit I would bet on center diff behavior as most logical issue. The others shall be (at least theoretically) well known issues rather easy to solve with experience from previous years.

they have also knowledge about programmed center diffs.

danon

13th February 2017, 21:10

https://www.facebook.com/127227730794547/videos/625911950926120/

eib1

13th February 2017, 21:11

watch Meeke at 0,36 and 2,12

https://youtu.be/chnGvHSu02E

maybe just overdriving (Matton words "you have to win", "you have to win" hammering in his head)

dimviii

13th February 2017, 21:25

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/54/Rallye_Schweden_2017_103_375455_58a024d45.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/56/Rallye_Schweden_2017_120_375694_58a0ab716.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/54/Rallye_Schweden_2017_088_375477_58a024d55.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/55/Rallye_Schweden_2017_094_375533_58a024d76.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/54/Rallye_Schweden_2017_105_375497_58a024d62.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/57/Rallye_Schweden_2017_129_375708_58a0ab722.jpg
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/37/55/Rallye_Schweden_2017_RM_060_375591_58a097f3c.jpg

dimviii

13th February 2017, 21:30

maybe just overdriving (Matton words "you have to win", "you have to win" hammering in his head)

of course there is pressure for Meeke as the main driver,but I don't think that is the problem we have seen at first 2 rallies.

Mirek

13th February 2017, 22:40

they have also knowledge about programmed center diffs.

It's already 7 years. People and knowledge don't always stay on the place. For me it's the most complicated thing to solve and the most logical to go wrong but it's nothing but my guessing, of course.

denkimi

13th February 2017, 22:51

maybe just overdriving (Matton words "you have to win", "you have to win" hammering in his head)
i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?

back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.

Ctesibios

14th February 2017, 03:21

Quite an alarming start to 2017 for Citroen and Meeke.

They missed most of last year to test and be ready with the new car and yet those that started much later (MSport) or from scratch (Toyota) have started significantly better.

Worrying. :(
There is one more thing I don't understand with all this preparation time, where is the third car! How can you not have the third car ready for the first event to be able to fight for the championship. It must be weird switching from the 2017 and 2016 spec cars as a driver! Money issues most likely.

shaitan

14th February 2017, 07:17

i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?

back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.
Come on guys, Mr. Loeb has been kicked off from Citroen ages.

Mirek

14th February 2017, 07:59

i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?

back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.

AFAIK C4 was the only WRC car with uneven torque split where more torque went to the rear axle (on asphalt only I think).

EstWRC

14th February 2017, 08:25

quite an irony that every time Meeke had a good result last year he repeated: "Just wait till i get into the new car"....now he is in it and he is nowhere. i hope he gets his issues sorted, something must have gone wrong somwhere.

and i would also raise the question about citroen not having 3 cars ready...m-sport had 4 cars in sweden and they are a private team.

Rally Power

14th February 2017, 08:28

maybe just overdriving (Matton words "you have to win", "you have to win" hammering in his head)

Matton’s words are more likely to be “stay on the road” than “you’ve to win”…

i'm thinking the same, at both moments on video he's just too fast for the corner.
could it be that citroen has build a car that really needs to be driven smooth, as it has always been with loeb?
back in the days of the xsara and the C4, i heard that the citroen was much more difficult to drive than the focus.
that they were build/set up for loeb's smooth driving style only.

You can be right, but that raises an uncomfortable question: wasn’t the C3 mainly developed by Meeke according to his driving style?

Probably the car handling problems are setup issues that can be fixed with more testing, but before start blaming Citroen Meeke’s fans should remember his role on the development. If the car’s not working properly it’s the whole team fault (including drivers) and the day it’ll be fixed (soon, we all hope) it will be thanks to the whole team efforts.

Honestly I still believe that on gravel the car will perform ok and we just need a trouble free minded Meeke to see him fighting for the wins. Fingers crossed!

Mirek

14th February 2017, 08:38

Of course the test driver's role is very important but he can't affect everything. He can give feedback to the engineers but he can't do the diff mapping etc. himself. There may be also some technical glitches which cause that the diff works different way than it theoretically should based on the mapping etc. It's complex issue and may have many root causes. From us some finger pointing is only speculations.

DonJippo

14th February 2017, 09:11

He can give feedback to the engineers but he can't do the diff mapping etc. himself. There may be also some technical glitches which cause that the diff works different way than it theoretically should based on the mapping etc.

What is Meeke's experience on driving cars with this kind of configuration, is it enough for good valuable feedback?

Mirek

14th February 2017, 09:29

IMHO there are two different levels of feedback. The driver delivers his feelings, sensual feedback, confidence etc. - for that it's not that important what are the exact technical means behind the car's behavior. The engineer transform the driver's feedback into the exact world of numbers and values. It is good if the driver is also an engineer but he can never understand everything so in the end the engineers are those who tune the car to get as close as possible to the driver's feelings. I think that it's sometimes very difficult to balance the two levels - when something is very good on theoretical basis but the drivers don't feel comfortable with it at all.

J_n_z

14th February 2017, 09:55

EstWRC

14th February 2017, 10:57

video from an estonian fan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSfeVSFy6oE&feature=youtu.be

Fast Eddie WRC

14th February 2017, 11:52

It's a bit strange that Breen was thrilled with the C3 at first in Sweden.. then one small off and he said he had completely lost all his confidence.

wrc2017

14th February 2017, 12:53

Anything to do with 2nd pass?

OldF

14th February 2017, 13:27

AFAIK C4 was the only WRC car with uneven torque split where more torque went to the rear axle (on asphalt only I think).

Do you know which kind of centre diff they had? As far as I understand the diff should have the ability to split the input torque despite the grip at front or rear. An open differential which clutch pack lock the front or rear together more or less don’t do that.

dimviii

14th February 2017, 13:35

It's already 7 years. People and knowledge don't always stay on the place. For me it's the most complicated thing to solve and the most logical to go wrong but it's nothing but my guessing, of course.

its not simple,but its not so complicated today.Not rocket science when there are plenty of mappers that alter center diff maps at evos (road/track/rally) with very good results.The guy who map my center diff is not a professional,just a friend with some knowledge,but this didn't prevent him to achieve the wanted goals for specific use.
Of course its not the same with a wrc car,but also at rally evos there wasn't any problem with motec diff controllers/pectel etc.
Trial and error and after some testing always you reached the target you wanted.
Who knows.but lets wait for gravel rallies first.

denkimi

14th February 2017, 14:27

It's a bit strange that Breen was thrilled with the C3 at first in Sweden.. then one small off and he said he had completely lost all his confidence.
could it be that that car has massive unexpected oversteer, but only every so often.

i had something like that on my megane coupé.
you could take the same corner at the same speed a 100 times without trouble, but the 101th time the rear would suddenly aggressively step out like someone pulled the handbrake.
after a number of spins and putting it in the ditch twice in 2 years i sold it, i couldn't get confident knowing one day it would just try to kill me again.
i never drove any other car that did the same thing.

gianni123

14th February 2017, 16:21

Video WRC Rally Sweden - 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RuqX0PUqNY

Fast Eddie WRC

14th February 2017, 18:47

could it be that that car has massive unexpected oversteer, but only every so often.

i had something like that on my megane coupé.
you could take the same corner at the same speed a 100 times without trouble, but the 101th time the rear would suddenly aggressively step out like someone pulled the handbrake.
after a number of spins and putting it in the ditch twice in 2 years i sold it, i couldn't get confident knowing one day it would just try to kill me again.
i never drove any other car that did the same thing.

Could be...

PS. Thanks for the Megane info... I was planning on buying one ! (Btw, was it standard or Cup chassis ?)

dimviii

14th February 2017, 18:53

the first megane had these ''live'' rear axles

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/rally_sweden_2017/sno_053.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2017/photos/rally_sweden_2017/sno_082.jpg

http://www.ewrc.cz/ewrc/fotogalery.php?events=35751&fotograf=200

Coach 2

14th February 2017, 19:05

After stage 13 Meek was just 15 sec behind Ogier. Both Ford’s was far behind Neuville also. But Tanak and Ogier drove the best they could and ended up 2 and 3. And they did it with a car that clearly had less grip than both Toyota and Hyundai, probably at the same level as Citroen.

MEEK, stop whining at once, and start to do the best you can all the time, from now and on.

dimviii

14th February 2017, 19:26

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4pgWgzWcAAaLZh.jpg

Mirek

14th February 2017, 19:27

Coach 2

14th February 2017, 19:41

I dont know, but I and a couple of my best friends (rally drivers) spectating on a lot of stages, thought so.

Mirek

14th February 2017, 19:43

Thanks, I thought so.

Coach 2

14th February 2017, 20:01

Thanks, I thought so.

Don't know if you where sarcastic or not, but that don't mater.
On friday with start nr 1 and 2 for Ogier and Latvala, I am suprised that this has not been mentioned previously.

car

14th February 2017, 20:08

Don't know if you where sarcastic or not, but that don't mater.
On friday with start nr 1 and 2 for Ogier and Latvala, I am suprised that this has not been mentioned previously.

Do you mind me asking if you have seen the onboard from stage 17? If you haven't, you should watch it. The car clearly has a major handling issue.

Coach 2

14th February 2017, 20:23

Do you mind me asking if you have seen the onboard from stage 17? If you haven't, you should watch it. The car clearly has a major handling issue.

I agre, did I say I dident. But that is rallying. Set up problems are normal especially with new cars, no matter how much you test. A test is a test.
This is precisely why you must do the best you can with what you have, especially in a championship with many races.

car

14th February 2017, 20:35

I agre, did I say I dident. But that is rallying. Set up problems are normal especially with new cars, no matter how much you test. A test is a test.
This is precisely why you must do the best you can with what you have, especially in a championship with many races.

Sorry - I don't understand if you have or haven't seen it?

I'll say what I think again though - the car clearly has a major handling fault. Not one of the other drivers will have experienced such a crap car in Sweden as Meeke did (Possibly Green, of course)...

Coach 2

14th February 2017, 21:13

Sorry - I don't understand if you have or haven't seen it?

I'll say what I think again though - the car clearly has a major handling fault. Not one of the other drivers will have experienced such a crap car in Sweden as Meeke did (Possibly Green, of course)...

After day one (SS8) Meeke is 2,1 behind Tanak and 3,9 in front of Ogier.
The handeling and speed of the Ford's are fine and Citroen are hopeless?
Or could it be like I said that the Ford boys did the best they could?

car

14th February 2017, 21:39

After day one (SS8) Meeke is 2,1 behind Tanak and 3,9 in front of Ogier.
The handeling and speed of the Ford's are fine and Citroen are hopeless?
Or could it be like I said that the Ford boys did the best they could?

It is entirely possible that the Citroen team experienced a fault which caused the handling issue (possibly a sensor related to the centre diff or that they went 'the wrong way' with set up). Each of these possibilities could have occurred after the Sunday.
Once again, you need to watch the onboard from stage 17 (Meeke) and your opinion will change, I am sure - the back of the car is literally all over the place...

macebig

14th February 2017, 22:40

After day one (SS8) Meeke is 2,1 behind Tanak and 3,9 in front of Ogier.
The handeling and speed of the Ford's are fine and Citroen are hopeless?
Or could it be like I said that the Ford boys did the best they could?

Meeke's road position was much better than those of the Ford drivers.Neuville (who had similar road position to the Brit) was 50 seconds ahead of him.And on Day 2 (when road conditions were similar for Ogier/Meeke/Tanak) the M Sport guys were clearly faster than Kris.So, with road conditions similar ,1 Hyundai and 2 Fords were straight up faster than Meeke's C3.And thats a fact.

GravelBen

14th February 2017, 23:54

It's a bit strange that Breen was thrilled with the C3 at first in Sweden.. then one small off and he said he had completely lost all his confidence.

could it be that that car has massive unexpected oversteer, but only every so often.

That was my thinking - the Citroen was obviously doing something very unexpected for either driver, and the cause wasn't clear enough for them to be confident anywhere once it happened. If they learn that it happens with a certain combination of factors they can drive around it, back off in those situations and still push other times. But if they don't know why its happening and can't predict it they can't trust the car.

It didn't look to me to be a power delivery/torque split issue as the car was often snapping very sideways under braking when not on the power. Maybe something in the on/off throttle diff mapping I guess, but there are so many different sensors and input factors for that mapping its really just guesswork for us non-experts.

GravelBen

15th February 2017, 00:00

I think it is important to see the difference between technically fast car (engineers car) and confidence inspiring car (drivers car). Good car (specially good rally car) must be a compromise or both together if it is possible.

Yes, we saw that with Paddon - he wasn't feeling comfortable with a setup that he thought would normally be good, so they changed to a technically slower setup that was easier to drive, more predictable and confidence inspiring and after that we saw top 3 and top 5 stage times from him.

I remember a quote once from Colin McRae that he thought the difference in speed among the top 5 or so drivers on any given day was almost completely due to their confidence level.

Fast Eddie WRC

15th February 2017, 16:33

Sweden warned snow and snow banks are not optional:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128119/rally-sweden-warned-over-lack-of-snow

SubaruNorway

15th February 2017, 16:52

Sweden warned snow and snow banks are not optional:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128119/rally-sweden-warned-over-lack-of-snow

Big snowbanks doesn't necessarily make it so much safer since it makes it easier to get hooked up on the inside making the car end up where you normally don't think it will. And in extreme cases it makes it hard to get out of the road, even sound gets killed by big snow banks. We've never had this little snow for 50 years in Norway so I'm sure it turns around again.

Rallyper

15th February 2017, 18:02

I´d say this year without so much snowbanks let the drivers go much faster and use more of the roadside than otherwise.

About Meeke I´d just say like Mäkinen did to JML last day: just drive, don´t think. Says a lot of what´s happening in some guys minds.

Ctesibios

16th February 2017, 13:44

Big snowbanks doesn't necessarily make it so much safer since it makes it easier to get hooked up on the inside making the car end up where you normally don't think it will. And in extreme cases it makes it hard to get out of the road, even sound gets killed by big snow banks. We've never had this little snow for 50 years in Norway so I'm sure it turns around again.
Sorry, I don't agree. As spectator, former competitor and member of a rally organization, it is much safer for all involved. It doesn't necessarily reduce the risk of making mistakes, BUT if you do go off, you are much less likely to hit something (tree!) or someone!

Rallyper

16th February 2017, 14:30

Sorry, I don't agree. As spectator, former competitor and member of a rally organization, it is much safer for all involved. It doesn't necessarily reduce the risk of making mistakes, BUT if you do go off, you are much less likely to hit something (tree!) or someone!

Of course. Having said that, you only have snowbanks in one and a half rally over the whole season. At most.

ernestcooke91

17th February 2017, 19:34

Hi, its my first post in MotorsportForums. I attended Rally Sweden last weekend and had a brilliant time. I've made two videos which are now on YouTube.

The first video covers Jari Matti Latvalas weekend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_keJkqYOtQ

The second video covers the Furumo Jumps on SS7 on Friday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Z2NCBaO-U

satukata

17th February 2017, 20:17

Fast Eddie WRC

19th February 2017, 11:21

Fast Eddie WRC

19th February 2017, 11:23

So this is the Swedes priority... food not rally ! :D

http://www.wrc.com/images//News/2017/February/10776_tanak-bbq-sweden-2017_111_896x504.jpg?

danon

23rd February 2017, 14:27

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16830990_10154602902618952_6106651679080988674_n.j pg?oh=6eadf838c4457da9da98b35cda94adc4&oe=5928E23E

BleAivano

23rd February 2017, 14:35

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16830990_10154602902618952_6106651679080988674_n.j pg?oh=6eadf838c4457da9da98b35cda94adc4&oe=5928E23E

What an idiot. Imo RS should consider giving him a ban from future rallies just to make an example.

DoN_cz

23rd February 2017, 14:46

Could be photoshopped :)

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11870735_10207442537520250_5543410581052533855_n.j pg?oh=e8643773d354fc34a68efa57dd81bd10&oe=593C2FA7

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11822637_10207442563960911_244018579417357476_n.jp g?oh=fc4a8afc927ea40836fb5312dd083266&oe=592F92CD

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/11825059_10207442665803457_7659376750254807211_n.j pg?oh=6d37e2f1224a73f5c5caa42a4b7d5dc7&oe=592869E3

tc10a

23rd February 2017, 17:54

https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16830990_10154602902618952_6106651679080988674_n.j pg?oh=6eadf838c4457da9da98b35cda94adc4&oe=5928E23E

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16806726_10155869057743275_9045313739111610337_n.j pg?oh=2443af6eefa55bd9dcff523f6b4bce72&oe=592EE456

danon

24th February 2017, 00:56

See this great Rally Sweden clip by Dji ... including Ogier mistake https://www.facebook.com/dji.europe/videos/1841848819368564/

tommeke_B

24th February 2017, 09:17

What an idiot. Imo RS should consider giving him a ban from future rallies just to make an example.
The gap between Tidemand and Suninen was the first that was only one minute (before there were 2 minutes between the cars), the photographer probably didn't listen and expected a bigger gap between the cars... Not so smart. If the press officer of Rally Sweden and of the FIA find the number of his vest, something will be done for sure. All media photographers are taken for a safety briefing each wednesday before the events. Being present on that meeting is a requirement to get a media vest. It's mostly for people new to rallying, to inform them what they can and cannot do, which places they should avoid etc... FIA can't prevent everything, there can and will always be stupid actions...

A FONDO

28th February 2017, 10:02

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDBuW4gcBBQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzpfsBH6rlY

sete

28th February 2017, 10:52

Yes,that safety briefing is waiting on me on Corsica this year.which would be my first WRC event with media vest.

BleAivano

28th February 2017, 19:09

Imaging have stages like this in Rally Sweden! https://www.facebook.com/teamwilen/videos/10156034952884152/

SubaruNorway

28th February 2017, 22:52

Imaging have stages like this in Rally Sweden! https://www.facebook.com/teamwilen/videos/10156034952884152/

I might be remembering wrong but i think they had planned to do something on Torsby in 2014?
Would be cool to do a loop at the start of Röjden

MTA

25th July 2017, 09:53

Better late than never.
Fantastic rally as usual and already looking forward to next year.
Our pictures can be found here:

Friday:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallyfoto.se/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1168337363263435

Saturday:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallyfoto.se/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1171202456310259

Sunday:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/rallyfoto.se/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1171202456310259