Rally Sweden 2017

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier to go for the PS win points but then lead the Ch'ship and open the road in Mexico... or not and let Latvala ?

[rallyfiend]

What a retarded start order and gaps.

It's just reverse classification, isn't it?

What else should they have done?

I agree the gaps between cars is too long.

[Micke_VOC]

Thierry lost 0,3 s at the fast section against Östberg. Now -3,1 at second split.
But Östberg in big problems now....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why cant WRC+ give us a pure sound audio option ??

[dodge33cymru]

Why cant WRC+ give us a pure sound audio option ??
This. Email them to ask, they are quite responsive in fairness.

Back to their best form of showing 30 seconds of someone removing a helmet and putting interviews on top of the coverage again, I see.

Still, nice to see the top R5s on the coverage at least.

[RS]

Good that they show the leading WRC2 crews. Would be better if they got power stage points too as they are often in cruise mode by this stage of the rally.

[stefanvv]

Ogier to go for the PS win points but then lead the Ch'ship and open the road in Mexico... or not and let Latvala ?

Said something about being happy to get 2 points, so I assume he wants to be behind Latvala in Mexico.

[Micke_VOC]

So deserved win for Tidemand !

[KKS]

Well done Suninen! Well done Tidemand! Great rally for both!
Hope Suninen adapt to car and show better results in future.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Jon Desborough is to rally commentary what NOT is to this forum... ruins it. :(

[RS]

Well done Suninen! Well done Tidemand! Great rally for both!
Hope Suninen adapt to car and show better results in future.

Great job by Tidemand, it was kind of easy for him.

Expected a bit more from Suninen. Either he is not used to the car or Skoda have pulled a bit of a gap on the Fiesta.

[maciotacio]

lol

Stéphane Lefebvre
@SLefebvreRallye
#WRC #RallySweden SS18 Torsby 9:13.7
It was a good event for us, very important. We went step by step, sometimes the rhythm was very good!

Wonder what he ment by sayng "sometimes". Driving in pace of R5 cars ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Good solid job by Breen... again top Cit. :)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Might Ogier slow down so he won't be first on the road in Mexico?

[KKS]

Finally Citroen have higher car ride than Hyundais...

[KKS]

Might Ogier slow down so he won't be first on the road in Mexico?
more chance for that is to - retire! 0 points ins guarantee not 1st on the road.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No tactics.. Seb wanted full points !

[GigiGalliNo1]

!!!!!

[BigWorm]

Solid job by Breen and Lefebvre.

[KKS]

Tanak somewhere done a mistake... -1.0 quick and +6.6 itno arena split :(

[Micke_VOC]

Latvala FASTEST on first split !! No safety driving !

[maciotacio]

So Ogier is sweeping again in Mexico

Sorry. Latvala :D

[GigiGalliNo1]

Great work Ogier and Tanak.

Tanak will win a few rallies in 2017!

Hat tip to M-Sport, finally you guys have great drivers.

[Red bull]

It would be wonderful if Toyota could consider Mikelsen for the no 2 seat.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great performance by Tanak.. very quick and no mistakes. The win will come soon.

[danon]

My opology to Toyota. I am very happy to write that.

Who's next?

[stefanvv]

Bravo TOYOTA, bravo Jaris-Mati!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Great result ... Toyota are back, Latvala is back.

[KKS]

Yeah!!!! Jml!!!!!!!

[BigWorm]

Hats off for Latvala. Stunning pace when it mattered the most.

Neuville grabs the title Mr. Bottlejob from Nico Rosberg.

[N.O.T]

a win is a win, well done to both toyota and Latvala.

Now a month of wait and the real season starts.

[KKS]

It's SILLY! Have this kind of finish.... shame on you rally sweden! SHAME!

[dodge33cymru]

Great stuff, so happy to be very, very wrong.

Also, very nice to see a proper finish, not three crews spraying champagne for TV before a long road section to the end.

[J_n_z]

I told you 2 months ago, Yaris is a fast car... I am waiting for tarmac rallies I think it can shine there. Congrats ti JML and Toyota...

Top 6 same drivers as Monte... go Breen, go Sordo.

[Micke_VOC]

Very strong win for Latvala ! With the win on PS also i think Tommi have done some miracles with JM´s mind !

[andyone]

yeah where are those who though Ogier is invincible. never under estimate anyone.. TOYOTA and latvala, good job

[GravelBen]

Great drive and a well deserved win :)

[Nelly]

Ymca��

[GigiGalliNo1]

It's SILLY! Have this kind of finish.... shame on you rally sweden! SHAME!

Why?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Just what WRC needed... Toyota are back and competitive.

MSport and Hyundai are in the fight... all we need now is Citroen to come to the party !

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hyundai are pi$$ed!

[Sulland]

Gazzzooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Who would have thought Makinens team would lead WRC after two rounds.
high odds for that!

Congratulations to Latvala/ Antilla and Gazoo Toyota.
Always cheer the underdog!

[A FONDO]

Fantastic performance by the skillful Latvala and truly deserved win. Succeeded to find a strong rhythm with the Toyota which is obviously good on soft surface and disaster on tarmac - typical finnish job.
Neuville really needs to visit psychologist. Tanak - good that he reaches the finish of rallies, first win will come some day this year. Ogier confessed in Saturday he tries everything but can't be faster so he snatched maximum possible points like a true champion. Next ahead is Mexico, tough rally for strong pilots where many cards will be revealed and some people will be surprised.

[eddy707]

I just realized I had not heard Japanese anthem in a very long time.
Happy for JML and Toyota. As someone said previously, now just need Citroen to get in the fight.

[lnvs]

a win is a win, well done to both toyota and Latvala.

Now a month of wait and the real season starts.

Time to finish up your bowl kid and move on. :D
http://i.imgur.com/1VEjAmb.jpg

[AL14]

Great win by Yaris Matti Latvala!!

[WRC17]

Time to finish up your bowl kid and move on. :D
http://i.imgur.com/1VEjAmb.jpg


Sick dog :D

[steve.mandzij]

YEEEEAAAAAH! SUCK A DICK N.O.T!

(I don't mean it as an actual insult just really really happy)

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[itix]

yes... are you happy kid ?
Asylum it is then...

God of being wrong in an arrogant way!

[Co-FIN]

Congrats to N.O.T for Darwin Award of the century! Very well deserved!

Stunning performance from Neuville, Tänäk and Latvala! Intresting times ahead. Neuville will most likely fly in Mexico due starting position :)


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[Eli]

What a return for Toyota to the sport!!!, podium after Monte and now winning in Sweden, a deserved win for Latvala, looks strong now in the championship, hopefully both him & the team can keep this form.
Again job well done for M-Sport, leading the way by 20 points.
Again stupid mistake by Neuville robbing himself from yet another victory otherwise, once Hayden will get up to speed they will be in the fight from both drivers. While again Sordo achieves a second consecutive 4th spot.
Citroen as Breen said have a lot of work to do, doesn't sound too encouraging, they will have a lot to improve if they want to get on the podium let alone a win. Again Stupid mistake by Kris, seems as if it's only a matter of time before Mikkelsen gets his seat in with the big boys.
Now looking very much forward to seeing the cars on gravel spec for the first time.
Bring on Mexico!

[N.O.T]

http://i.imgur.com/5IAHi1C.gif

[steve.mandzij]

I can't be happier with how Latvala's weekend played out. A well deserved victory not just for him but for the car. For him to manage the pressure so well is completely unprecedented.

Also, kudos to Sordo for his consistency. Impressive.

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[KKS]

Why?
For me personally, I want to hear HOT comment, HOT emotions from driver that win rally and a power stage. Instead of that we have "JML quick go to the road section and to the podium. We don't need your thoughts live, we don't need emotions from crew, we just need good picture for TV".Every rally have two celebrations, one at the end of stage and other on podium at service-park.


I didn't like this kind of stuff. And all it happens in "quicker, quicker we have a limited TV time" mode.

[Allyc85]

What a brilliant way for Latvala to take the victory, smashing the opposition and winning all the stages today!

Is there enough humble pie to go around for all on this forum?

[dodge33cymru]

For me personally, I want to hear HOT comment, HOT emotions from driver that win rally and a power stage. Instead of that we have "JML quick go to the road section and to the podium. We don't need your thoughts live, we don't need emotions from crew, we just need good picture for TV".Every rally have two celebrations, one at the end of stage and other on podium at service-park.


I didn't like this kind of stuff. And all it happens in "quicker, quicker we have a limited TV time" mode.
I found it quite the opposite; not usually a fan of this "spraying champagne in a random farmyard watched by family and sheep" thing. They showed the actual finish for once and it (briefly) showed that rallying isn't just a sport where you just drive SSs. Although I'd trade either for just showing a few more cars through.....

[Mise]

One big thing to notice here:
JML wins the power stage and Neuville, Ogier and Meeke were saving their tyres for that.
Think it says something about Toyota perfomance

[Simmi]

One big thing to notice here:
JML wins the power stage and Neuville, Ogier and Meeke were saving their tyres for that.
Think it says something about Toyota perfomance

It was an impressive way to finish. Not sure if road conditions played a factor for those early guys on the PS. But they retired so that's on them.

Magnificent result. Superb for the championship. Just hats off to Toyota. Way to prove people wrong in a big spot. Huge vindication for Tommi.

[KKS]

I found it quite the opposite; not usually a fan of this "spraying champagne in a random farmyard watched by family and sheep" thing. They showed the actual finish for once and it (briefly) showed that rallying isn't just a sport where you just drive SSs. Although I'd trade either for just showing a few more cars through.....
They can do easily.... that can interview all drivers, and JML as well... Congrats him at the end (as usual) and then show two or three cars from the behind to just allow drivers reach a podium ceremony and then show all what they do. It would be perfect!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quite an alarming start to 2017 for Citroen and Meeke.

They missed most of last year to test and be ready with the new car and yet those that started much later (MSport) or from scratch (Toyota) have started significantly better.

Worrying. :(

[bassist]

You proved me wrong Jari, lovely drive, albeit benefiting from Thierrys mistake (but that's Rallying !) He has thrown it away twice now, I bet Hyundai top brass are really 'happy' !! Kris you need something big to happen, no excuses - you aint performing!! Upstaged by Craig again ! Great for Ott, cant be long now mate !!

[macebig]

Stage wins after 2 events:
Hyundai 14
Ford 11
Toyota 6
Citroen 1

[KKS]

Quite an alarming start to 2017 for Citroen and Meeke.

They missed most of last year to test and be ready with the new car and yet those that started much later (MSport) or from scratch (Toyota) have started significantly better.

Worrying. :(
Yes, a bit the same situation as Neuville didn't push today and didn't win PS

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes, a bit the same situation as Neuville didn't push today and didn't win PS

No, nothing like Neuville.. he and his car have been fastest and look confident.

Meeke and the C3 have been nowhere in either rally.

[itix]

Congrats to N.O.T for Darwin Award of the century! Very well deserved!

Stunning performance from Neuville, Tänäk and Latvala! Intresting times ahead. Neuville will most likely fly in Mexico due starting position :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think you understand what a Darwin award is...

It is when you do something so stupid that you either kill yourself or damage your reproductive organs so much you can't reproduce.

[KKS]

No, nothing like Neuville.. he and his car have been fastest and look confident.

Meeke and the C3 have been nowhere in either rally.
He drive slowly all two morning stages and was beaten by two mens who didn't save his tyres.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

He drive slowly all two morning stages and was beaten by two mens who didn't save his tyres.

I was talking about Citroen/Meeke in 2017 not just the power stage !!

[Ounin]

a win is a win, well done to both toyota and Latvala.

Now a month of wait and the real season starts.

I think he is right. The benchmarking starts at Mexico. The first 2 rallies of the year really do not match with the rest of the season; motor- and chassis wise they are not killing rallies. Although Toyota and Ford did some great great things, I'm very happy for them, but we have to wait.

F.i. I remember Hyundai last year Alain Penasse said after questioning the then new i20 "wait after Mexico..."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The season started in Monte (and Sweden)... the points were there to be won and the confidence gained.

[N.O.T]

Its a pity that people fail to see the big picture and act like plebs.

Tanak could very easily win here but the team are not stupid to let him throw everything away.

from these 2 useless events the only conclusion we can make is that Hyundai are top of the field so far, Neuville and Tanak seem to be the fastest with the current equipment and Toyota had 2 fluke results based on conditions and nothing more.

Of course you can overglorify everything but be prepared for a hard season ahead.

[itix]

I think he is right. The benchmarking starts at Mexico. The first 2 rallies of the year really do not match with the rest of the season; motor- and chassis wise they are not killing rallies. Although Toyota and Ford did some great great things, I'm very happy for them, but we have to wait.

F.i. I remember Hyundai last year Alain Penasse said after questioning the then new i20 "wait after Mexico..."
Well technically Mexico is not telling either because there is such a thick layer of sweeping gravel at the top and the event is run so high up that so theoretically any engine power advantage would be mostly gone.

Corsica is a twisty tarmac rally where we will see who has a good tarmac chassis but not much else, Argentina will again mean sweeping and possibly problems with splitters and water splashes... Etc etc.

The simple truth is that you have to be strong at everything as a team - car - driver combo to win the championship.

Only time will tell who that might be, but it is a lot closer this year.

Neuville has the speed and the road condition to win in Mexico for sure. Fun season to come! :)

[spyros]

im so so happy about Jari and Tommi,hope they continue.As for NOT i have to say that luck is a part of the game.
Interesting season ahead.

[Mirek]

Itix, Mexico, Argentina and Corsica are all very telling events about the engine. Sweden or Finland are not but these are.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont think Citroen will be saying the season starts in Mexico. They would prefer to already have the points that the others have.

Is the C3 suddenly going to dominate on gravel and the rest be crap. I wouldnt bet on it.

[tomhlord]

Its a pity that people fail to see the big picture and act like plebs.

The irony here is glorious.

[BigWorm]

If you want to win the championship against Ogier, you need big points right from the start. Latvala and Tänak have done that so far. Neuville wants to be a champion this year, and his pace indicates that it could happen. He has been the man to beat so far, only problem is that he lets everyone beat him with those silly mistakes. A podium, if not a win, is a must in Mexico for him if he's to stand a chance.

As for Meeke, I'm not surprised one bit. Put pressure on him and he cracks. It's far from over, but if he really wants to stand a chance against the most consistent man in the sport, Meeke's result haven't been good enough so far.

[hari]

Some images Day1-Day4:
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wc_rallye_schweden_2017.html

http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2017/schweden/bestof3/1.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2017/schweden/bestof1/24.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2017/schweden/bestof3/2.jpghttp://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2017/schweden/bestof4/1.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2017/schweden/bestof3/15a.jpg
http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos/2017/schweden/bestof2/22.jpg

[PAUL15]

Its a pity that people fail to see the big picture and act like plebs.

Tanak could very easily win here but the team are not stupid to let him throw everything away.

from these 2 useless events the only conclusion we can make is that Hyundai are top of the field so far, Neuville and Tanak seem to be the fastest with the current equipment and Toyota had 2 fluke results based on conditions and nothing more.

Of course you can overglorify everything but be prepared for a hard season ahead.

Toyota made you look very very silly after only 2 rallies lol....you know everything but nothing hehehehe

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Colin Clark: For the first time in 13yrs we don't have a dominating team in the WRC - and my good God, it feels bloody great!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

NOT... who judges a team & car from a few test vids saying see the big picture ha ha ha.

[N.O.T]

NOT... who judges a team & car from a few test vids saying see the big picture ha ha ha.

someone who is not that basic as yourself.

Toyota as a team are a bunch of amateurs with 2 fluke results. If you fail to see this then cheer all you want, i guess you were happy with englands fluke victory over wales yesterday as well.

[USER47]

For fuck's sake, N.O.T, you have always been an annoying prick, but lately your rants have been getting more and more repetitive and more and more obviously stupid. I feel like my IQ drops by 5 points every time you write something and I have to read it.

[jparker]

I think he is right. The benchmarking starts at Mexico. The first 2 rallies of the year really do not match with the rest of the season; motor- and chassis wise they are not killing rallies. Although Toyota and Ford did some great great things, I'm very happy for them, but we have to wait.

F.i. I remember Hyundai last year Alain Penasse said after questioning the then new i20 "wait after Mexico..."

Yes, the skeptics have to wait, no question about it, but for people who know Toyota's history, the shown so far is enough to smile. I just hope FIA don't disqualify them again for being so far ahead from the rest.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why doesnt everyone just 'Ignore' NOT and that would be that ?

I've done so but keep having to read his obnoxious idiotic garbage when people quote him.

IGNORE.

[N.O.T]

I just hope FIA don't disqualify them again for being so far ahead from the rest.

lol... that was cheating kid.

[Ounin]

Yes, the skeptics have to wait, no question about it, but for people who know Toyota's history, the shown so far is enough to smile. I just hope FIA don't disqualify them again for being so far ahead from the rest.

??? I'm not sceptic, it's great to see Toyota back on podium, as well as M-Sport. If you start comparing Ove Andersson's German Toyota team from the nineties with the 2017 Mäkinen's team well, good luck my friend. And, Toyota far ahead from the rest; maybe you have seen something else but ... is wasn't a WRC rally.

The more potential winners the better, at last we have a thrilling WRC ahead! Let's wait and judge after Mexico, then you can make a decent '17 forecast. As the Ford factory, it's time to make a comeback.

[Simmi]

Great result today and a bit of modern rallying history. There's so much to debate and excite right now in rallying - but people seem more focused on one guy on a forum. Someone who it's likely you'll never meet in your life.

I can't get my head around it if I'm honest.

[skarderud]

Why do people talk about the season starts in Mexico? No, it starts in Monte Carlo. This is rally, its not 8 identical gravel and 4 identical tarmac rallies thru the year.

Sent fra min XP7700 via Tapatalk

[dimviii]

congrats to Latvala Anttila for the win,a well deserved win,as they went faster when there was the chance, and they grabbed it.
Mature driving,without mistakes. Seems Toyota is a much better place for him,without Ogiers shadow.
Today the most happy person must be Makinen,its good that they won for such a big manufacture,wrc needs these players,and to be present they have to have faith at their managers whom give their money.
Another thing I d like to say that we haven't mention till now.
Can you imagine the Toyota performance if vw haven't go away from wrc? Hanninen and Lappi would be their drivers.
Success from total disaster is very close,as we have seen so far from Citroen too.
Neuville for sure seems the absolute speed benchmark till now,but didn't manage to win.
Nevermind I think that he will have a lot of chances this year to win.
Meeke have failed to bring points,he failed to do the same as Tanak, Sordo,Ogier.
When you have setup problems,or the car doesn't help you you have to find this line which is before the crash and deliver the car to finish.
Even if you have to finish 6th or 8th.
Hanninen the same.
Sordo we know that he is not good at these surfaces,but he delivered.Without him almost no points for Hyundai.
Ogier was Loebish at his finest. Found this line and took the points he deserved.
Tanak same as Sordo and Ogier.excellent job.
Breen very good work considering his wrc drives and the setups problem.He delivered.
Paddon had speed at some stages,couldnt wait for more after Monte incident.

Something about Mikkelsen.Imho managers have to grab the chance.Its the only valuable driver who is free,and plenty of teams will have a very good synthesis if have him in their squad.
The teams that they most need him is Toyota and Citroen.
You cant wait from Latvala to deliver a whole year without mistakes/crashes etc and Hanninen is not up to the job till now.
Same for Citroen.
The only sure is that we are not going to be bored this year.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4dsgu9W8AA50Vt.jpg

[ik1911]

The best car have not a win yet, good for championship!

[jparker]

???
The more potential winners the better, at last we have a thrilling WRC ahead! Let's wait and judge after Mexico, then you can make a decent '17 forecast. As the Ford factory, it's time to make a comeback.

OK fine.

[dimviii]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4eRUFpUkAAs6Zi.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4eRUFsVUAALoMt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4eRUGGUkAE2XDK.jpg

[dimviii]

Teemu / Rallirinki ‏@HartusvuoriWRC

Juho Hänninen was fined 200€ for wearing his balaclava outside his overalls, not inside at SS16. #RallySweden #underweardetectives #WRC

[EstWRC]

when was the last time when Ogier didnt get a stage win at all?

Very happy for Toyota and Latvala, especially Toyota because there are also many estonians working...Neuville and Meeke, absolutely disaster again. Especially for Meeke because he didnt show a good speed too, Neuville at least is very fast. Ogier got his job done and brought the points home. Tänak was clearly the third fastest this weekend but i hoped for more but as long he is faster than Ogier it suits me. Didnt have any expectations for Paddon but it seems he got his confidence back.

For me it is clear that at the moment Hyundai is the best car. Even Sordo made some good times and some of his splits were also impressive.

[dimviii]

Michelin video
https://youtu.be/vZK_c95qmTQ

[BigWorm]

This rally was always going to be hard for Paddon. I thought he did well, got some decent stage times on Friday, power steering loss was unfortunate. In the end he brought home some points for himself and Hyundai.

[WRC1]

Neuville will most likely fly in Mexico due starting position :)

...until the first concrete barrier.... :)

[Simmi]

when was the last time when Ogier didnt get a stage win at all?

Spain 2012 I believe. His last event in the Skoda. Unbelievable run ended this weekend.

[steve.mandzij]

I'd really like to know, N.O.T., why you think Toyota is so shit. Please explain it to me without using the words "village", "pleb", and "basic".

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[BigWorm]

Spain 2012 I believe. His last event in the Skoda. Unbelievable run ended this weekend.

Correct, won a stage with the S2000 Fabia in Italy. In a WRC car, the last event he failed to score a stage win was in Germany 2010.

[dimviii]

http://toyotagazooracing.com/release/2017/wrc/rd02-day4.html

[EstWRC]

Correct, won a stage with the S2000 Fabia in Italy. In a WRC car, the last event he failed to score a stage win was in Germany 2010.


wow, thanks...thats some long time ago!

[itix]

Itix, Mexico, Argentina and Corsica are all very telling events about the engine. Sweden or Finland are not but these are.
Corsica yes... To a degree, given that the chassis are equal. If they aren't, the one who can carry more speed through the corners win.

Since everyone is down on power in Mexico the power gaps would be smaller as well (given that they have mapped the engines well... But since they all PET I'm sure they would).

Argentina is also run relatively high up, but Argentina is a better event, I'll give you that.

We should have clearer image by Portugal of who is where.

...One thing is for sure, Toyota is a lot faster than this forum anticipated and I was absolutely right in not guestimating their performance until we saw them in anger...

Things are looking bleak however for my favorite Citroen team, but I hope I'm wrong in that respect.

[eib1]

M-Sport has already collected 40% of last year points, Malcolm should be happy

[BigWorm]

wow, thanks...thats some long time ago!

Quite incredible to say the least

[N.O.T]

I'd really like to know, N.O.T., why you think Toyota is so shit. Please explain it to me without using the words "village", "pleb", and "basic".

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Because its an unprofessional team in the way the do things, from head to bottom.

we have a whole year to find out who is right and who is wrong.

[RAS007]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4eRUFpUkAAs6Zi.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4eRUFsVUAALoMt.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4eRUGGUkAE2XDK.jpg

Great pictures! Congrats to JM and the whole team. Really happy for them. And Tommi, especially.

[Allez Andruet]

Because its an unprofessional team in the way the do things, from head to bottom.
Yes, they really seem to be. A new team and a new car and all they've manage to do so far is a lame 2nd place in MC and a victory in Sweden. Truly unprofessional way of doing things.

[Revman]

As I have mentioned in my first thread, I am new to this sport due to Toyota's involvement. This is a dream result. Fabulous day!

[BigWorm]

As I have mentioned in my first thread, I am new to this sport due to Toyota's involvement. This is a dream result. Fabulous day!

Gold digger ;)

[bluuford]

Some notes from this rally:

Hyundai: Seems that they are affected by prvevious Fiesta R5 disease - powersteering problems. Powersteering broke in Monte for Sordo and here for Paddon. Bearing in mind the fact that 3rd car nearly didnt drive in Monte, then having two failiures in 5 cars is not a good sign.

Neuville: Concrete boy ;) I remember, when he was still in Ford, I think it was in Portugal, he had very similar retirement, cut too much, inside wheel was exposed to tree ..and bang!

Jari and Ott fight: Seems that Jari likes sliding a lot while Ott has learned to be more precise during DMack year. If you look more closely, largest timelosses for Jari came when they were at the end of loop and he complained about loss of grip/studs. As Likenäs stage was on full ice, no problem with sliding with studs.

As for Ott, his voice sounded a bit rough today, I am not sure, but seems that he has got some cold, that might affect your concentration and speed a little.

Podium, It was nice to hear Estonian national anthem (it is basically the same as Finnish;).

Ford electronics: it seems that these problems must be related to their high tempo on producing new cars. They were the first to bring 4 cars to Sweden!

Car development: I was just wondering that how much advantage can Ford get for having 4 cars at the start of the rally. That means two times more information than Toyota or Citroen can get. How crucial it can be, when setting up car and adding new developments!?

[Revman]

I am a newbie, so ignore me instead of flaming me. What impressed the hell out of me was that Jari-Matti needed to manage the 3.8 second lead. He buried Ott after 16. Reminded him that he was done in 17. And put an exclamation mark on in it 18. Epic.

[SubaruNorway]

My video from an awesome Rally Sweden :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Onyg-rEWHI

[EstWRC]

Tänak saying in estonian media that he realized in the first few km's already that the car isnt working like he wants and accepted that he cant fight with Jari. He says Latvala was too fast anyway today.


Estonian broadcast commentator said that Latvala has said many times this weekend that the Yaris is even better than Polo on snow, weight distribution is very good...can anyone confirm this because i havent seen something said it about here?

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Well done, Toyota & JML..:D

Sent from my A12 using Tapatalk

[BigWorm]

I am a newbie, so ignore me instead of flaming me. What impressed the hell out of me was that Jari-Matti needed to manage the 3.8 second lead. He buried Ott after 16. Reminded him that he was done in 17. And put an exclamation mark on in it 18. Epic.

Hey, was only being ironic. I think we are all surprised of what Toyota has achieved. It's always fun when newcomers do well instead of rotting away like Suzuki.

[Revman]

This was as satisfying a motorsport result as I have ever known. What a fabulous sport!

[steve.mandzij]

What actually happened to Suzuki? Was the car the issue or was the lineup the issue?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[Karukera]

Fantastic rally.
Hyvä Latvala and TGR !

[PLuto]

What actually happened to Suzuki? Was the car the issue or was the lineup the issue?

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It was "whole project issue". Japanese and brittish groups of the team were not cooperating perfectly during the development (and also later). This project was killed during development and was doing that one rally season only because they needed (as it was rule and there should be big penalty not doing it).

[Rally Power]

Fantastic day for the WRC: it’s great to see Toyota, a manu with such a strong rally past, wining again! Congrats to Mr. Toyoda for believing in Makinen’s private team. It’s amazing how well TGR/TMR staff worked, making a rally winner from scratch in so short time. Huge congrats also to Latvala and his codriver; who knows, maybe this new fresh start will finally be his ticket for WRC drivers title!

[Ucci]

I will not write much, as it was written a lot.....congrats and deep respect for what Jari achived. I admit-I was also between the 90% of forum members, who completely ignored Toyota in the first part of the season. What a mistake.....
M-Sport drivers are doing great job.....
Neuville, well at least he knows he is at the moment a benchmark in the speed.
Citroën: still no light on the horizon. If Meeke will not show something extra in Mexico, they can start to prepare for the 2018.

[N.O.T]

My video from an awesome Rally Sweden :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Onyg-rEWHI

perfect as always !!!! now remember that when you do your annual recap not to ruin those fantastic footage with those retarded drifting videos.

[Rally Power]

There's so much to debate and excite right now in rallying - but people seem more focused on one guy on a forum. Someone who it's likely you'll never meet in your life.
I can't get my head around it if I'm honest.

Do you usually follow the forum? During the last one and a half year the forum idiot (aka NOT) has been repeatedly bashing Toyota’s people. Since the partnership with TMR was announced the insults to Mr. Toyoda, Makinen and all the staff involved never cessed and (like some press members, btw) he spent months manipulating rally fans, trying to convince them TGR would be a flop.

Yep, we live in a cynical world; it seems funnier and easier to mock others than praise them; hopefully this episode can have a positive effect and remind us that no one should be judged in advance.

[Sulland]

Because its an unprofessional team in the way the do things, from head to bottom.

what are your measuring factors?

Since you are so sure, you have probably done your homework. Could you share?

[N.O.T]

what are your measuring factors?

Since you are so sure, you have probably done your homework. Could you share?

Assembling a team based on nationality and drivers based on manager connections.

If you study the results you will see that the win was a complete fluke.

We have a long season ahead, the fun just begins.

[Franky]

If you study the results you will see that the win was a complete fluke.
Wait, the fastest one to go over the finish ramp doesn't win?

[Karukera]

Do you usually follow the forum? During the last one and a half year the forum idiot (aka NOT) has been repeatedly bashing Toyota’s people. (...)

In all fairness, it's not only him.
We now have the armchair doubters coming to apologize one by one.
Hilarious.

[A FONDO]

My video from an awesome Rally Sweden :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Onyg-rEWHI

Nice footage but all passes look the same. My head hurts after 2 minutes. This is well made video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DITKNRHUWCI absorbs the viewer into the place.

Also your zoom is so high I can't see anything around. Even the cars don't fit on the screen sometimes.

[dimviii]

http://www.rally-mania.cz/photogallery.php?id=1511

[dimviii]

Also your zoom is so high I can't see anything around. Even the cars don't fit on the screen sometimes.

Subaru Norway with all the respect to your work,Slowson has a point here. Plenty of times cant recognise which driver is and I have to playback again and again the video trying to see the number at the car.With less zoom there is not such a problem.
Except that, its better when you can watch the car, with plenty of space/road, and not only the car due to plenty of zoom.
Keep up the good work.

[A FONDO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pncoDOR5mgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ixZVXe_uso

[Allez Andruet]

Assembling a team based on nationality and drivers based on manager connections.
Yeah, what an asshole that Mäkinen - makes me sick just thinking that he hired Tom Fowler and Simon Carrier for being Brits! And what's even worse, one of his three drivers have the same manager he used to have himself when he was competing. That's almost unheard of!

Seriously... if retardness was something to compete in, you'd be unbeatable.

[EstWRC]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgGhumMkwaY

[N.O.T]

In all fairness, it's not only him.
We now have the armchair doubters coming to apologize one by one.
Hilarious.

they are the same simpletons that will jump ship again once they realise how naked their todays king is...

[A FONDO]

OF course in rally sport the driver has the biggest influence on making the car look slow or fast. I am amazed how some of you worry that Citroen is weak because it does not win stages in these two rallies. Come the dry gravel Meeke will have a rally with good pace and LAtvala struggle with setup/feeling first two days, what will you say then? As Dimvi said, if Toyota #10 was in hands of Lappi, battling with Tidemand in best case scenario (worst case crash earlier than Juho) - would anyone have praised them as much as you do now?! But JML made his setup right, Tanak and Ogier could not, so goodbye go wait for the next jackpot :D Also imagine Ford with Ostberg and Camili again - two double podiums!?!? We would have been singing the same old song for poor private company, greedy Malcolm etc. Only thing that is certain now is that Hyundai is well refined for anything. Even if the points standings don't reveal it.

[N.O.T]

OF course in rally sport the driver has the biggest influence on making the car look slow or fast. I am amazed how some of you worry that Citroen is weak because it does not win stages in these two rallies. Come the dry gravel Meeke will have a rally with good pace and LAtvala struggle with setup/feeling first two days, what will you say then? As Dimvi said, if Toyota #10 was in hands of Lappi, battling with Tidemand in best case scenario (worst case crash earlier than Juho) - would anyone have praised them as much as you do now?! But JML made his setup right, Tanak and Ogier could not, so goodbye go wait for the next jackpot :D Also imagine Ford with Ostberg and Camili again - two double podiums!?!? We would have been singing the same old song for poor private company, greedy Malcolm etc. Only thing that is certain now is that Hyundai is well refined for anything. Even if the points standings don't reveal it.

well done kid.

[steve.mandzij]

Assembling a team based on nationality and drivers based on manager connections.

If you study the results you will see that the win was a complete fluke.

We have a long season ahead, the fun just begins.
Jarmo Lethinen confirmed they did not sign Latvala because he was Finnish. Also, you act as if no other team does that.

The win was a prime example of rallying. One competitor made a mistake, and Latvala benefited. He wasn't gifted a win either: he had to fight for it and the pressure got to the guys behind.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

you act as if no other team does that.



can you refresh my memory ? who has done something similar and so degenerate in the past ?

enjoy your naked king... the best times are ahead.

[steve.mandzij]

Fine, you win, I actually didn't think of one. My bad.
Edit: scratch that, Peugeot 2004. Rovanpera and Gronholm.

[EstWRC]

what jump???


https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/16664911_1426314380733862_3456292957280208158_o.jp g?oh=27e4842c8e2149a1586e62351c070f50&oe=59353A2C




from Jaanus Ree facebook https://www.facebook.com/pg/www.jree.ee/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1423334941031806

[danon]

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16708604_320052895063569_5332103264492394235_n.jpg ?oh=9c0be317b051b69911a41536d0b24047&oe=5945CDF0

[dimviii]

Τanak mistake at powerstage
https://streamable.com/2mgdy

[steve.mandzij]

I'm excited for Mexico! Latvala might have an issue on day one with road sweeping, but as long as he remains in the top six he could claw back some time on the last two days. He's historically done well in Mexico, so here's to hoping we get another win/podium.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[danon]

Makinen - Sweden 2017 - https://www.facebook.com/RallyManiaPT/videos/10154483382727987/

[N.O.T]

Fine, you win, I actually didn't think of one. My bad.
Edit: scratch that, Peugeot 2004. Rovanpera and Gronholm.

was the peugeot management Finish ???

[steve.mandzij]

was the peugeot management Finish ???
Alright, good point.

You still can't deny that they have been successful, regardless of their practices or ways of working.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[EightGear]

Glad to be proven wrong about Ogier winning after Neuville's crash yesterday. Nice win by Latvala and it looks like the championship is somewhat open. Still it would have been better if Neuville hadn't done his silly mistakes, as I feel Ogier will probably only get stronger during the year.

[COD]

OF course in rally sport the driver has the biggest influence on making the car look slow or fast. I am amazed how some of you worry that Citroen is weak because it does not win stages in these two rallies. Come the dry gravel Meeke will have a rally with good pace

What is worrying about Citroen is that it does look like they have big handling problems on both cars. Hopefully they can sort it out, but they are team that tested the 2017 car longest and seem to have gotten it most wrong overall.

[Karukera]

they are the same simpletons that will jump ship again once they realise how naked their todays king is...

I fail to see anyone making TGR king of anything.
People just share their joy for a new comer in the series and gently laugh at the prediction floppers.

They came to learn and delivered a lot sooner than reasonnably expected.
The car is still under development, we're all well aware they inevitably will face the usual problems but it certainly has a lot of potential and we can salute their early achievements.

[danon]

Do you usually follow the forum? During the last one and a half year the forum idiot (aka NOT) has been repeatedly bashing Toyota’s people. (...)


In all fairness, it's not only him.
We now have the armchair doubters coming to apologize one by one.
Hilarious.

https://s5.postimg.org/lum1h5zpj/armchair_doubter.jpg

[rallyfun]

I think Citroen shouldn't worry at all, according forum "experts" season starts in Mexico. Same applies to Meeke, Ostberg and Neuville. Lol

[Rally Power]

OF course in rally sport the driver has the biggest influence on making the car look slow or fast. I am amazed how some of you worry that Citroen is weak because it does not win stages in these two rallies. Come the dry gravel Meeke will have a rally with good pace and LAtvala struggle with setup/feeling first two days, what will you say then? As Dimvi said, if Toyota #10 was in hands of Lappi, battling with Tidemand in best case scenario (worst case crash earlier than Juho) - would anyone have praised them as much as you do now?! But JML made his setup right, Tanak and Ogier could not, so goodbye go wait for the next jackpot :D Also imagine Ford with Ostberg and Camili again - two double podiums!?!? We would have been singing the same old song for poor private company, greedy Malcolm etc. Only thing that is certain now is that Hyundai is well refined for anything. Even if the points standings don't reveal it.

No need to speculate on the driver’s line up; the current scene is fantastic (thanks VW Board) and we’re fortunate enough to have 4 top drivers on the 4 manus top seats. Like it was already mentioned, all of them were in max attack mode in today’s Power Stage, and the total split was pretty small: only 3s between Latvala and Meeke. We can see it as a sign that there’s a real balance between ’17 cars, even if during the whole event (just like in MC) pace differences were sometimes important.

[GravelBen]

Yeah, what an asshole that Mäkinen - makes me sick just thinking that he hired Tom Fowler and Simon Carrier for being Brits! And what's even worse, one of his three drivers have the same manager he used to have himself when he was competing. That's almost unheard of!

Seriously... if retardness was something to compete in, you'd be unbeatable.

Yes, they only have 10 or so different nationalities in the team! How terribly nationalistic.

You should know by now that N.O.T never lets the facts get in the way of his trolling though.

[DonJippo]

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16708604_320052895063569_5332103264492394235_n.jpg ?oh=9c0be317b051b69911a41536d0b24047&oe=5945CDF0

Tommi Mäkinen "This win is dedicated to my longtime fan Greg, from Greece! Thanks for your kind words and support during the years!"

[Mirek]

Corsica yes... To a degree, given that the chassis are equal. If they aren't, the one who can carry more speed through the corners win.

Not to a degree but very much :) It's an event where the torque curve is hugely important, maybe most of all events (my opinion).

PS: I don't share Your opinion about Mexico and Argentina either. IMHO where there is general lack of power every bit of better power curve must be a reasonable advantage. Just have a look on R5 times in comparison to WRC in both Argentina and Mexico. Those cars have been always incredibly slow compared to WRC ones while on other events they have been mostly way closer.

[Morte66]

I am very pleased that Meeke is progressing, and he now jumps over big rocks when leaving the road instead of smashing his gearbox on them. At this rate, the WDC is within his grasp.

But... Hyundai seems to have the best car, and Neuville is quick and Sordo is reliable and Paddon will avoid lady luck's ire eventually. I think the championships are theirs to lose... but they look strangely like they could do so. From here I don't know if Neuville will have a nervous breakdown or Hyundai will turn into the new VW.

But Ford is good (yay!). And Toyota is good (yay!). And aliens have abducted JML and replaced him with a strange new creature (yay!).

Good season ahead. Hopefully for us Citroen fans too. Eh. Ok.

[itix]

Not to a degree but very much :) It's an event where the torque curve is hugely important, maybe most of all events (my opinion).

PS: I don't share Your opinion about Mexico and Argentina either. IMHO where there is general lack of power every bit of better power curve must be a reasonable advantage. Just have a look on R5 times in comparison to WRC in both Argentina and Mexico. Those cars have been always incredibly slow compared to WRC ones while on other events they have been mostly way closer.
About Argentina and Mexico with the R5 it's because they have to breathe through a smaller restrictor. It makes sense that a lower absolute pressure forced through a smaller opening will create a bigger difference than a larger absolute pressure and the same comparison so I am not too surprised there.

However if the difference in power comes from engine internals, engine management etc etc, you'd see a smaller power gap (if we assume the reduction in power is linear for both manufactures, which we both know is not necessarily the case but still).

About Corsica, imagine the extreme case of a mustang with a live rear axle and leaf springs and all that American engineering goodness from the mid 1800's, but with a massively tuned engine at around 800 bhp, vs a Ford Fiesta R2. We both know the Fiesta will win because it has a better chassis. That's the point I'm trying to argue. Sure, if you have a better engine you might reach 5-10 km/h more ate the end of the straight, but if you lose 15 on the corner, the other car will win.

[janvanvurpa]

Because its an unprofessional team in the way the do things, from head to bottom.

we have a whole year to find out who is right and who is wrong.

What the f**k do you imagine you know about professional anything aside from your little career as a lab-rat?
And in particular what the f**k do you think you know about rally..
To know means something different from imagining you know something...
So how do you know what a professional "way to do things" is?

You don't know..NOT one thing because you are a sad, pitiful, little dreamer... You've been here YEARS and yet you still haven't driven ONE club event..

I wonder if the other people who rely on accurate procedures in the lab know what a delusional and absurd figure you are.. I would certainly worry to be working around anybody who talked such non-stop fantasy driven bulls**t.

Hey NOT, since you seem so obsessed with trying top pretend to be a man, what a man would say after all your years of insulting men who are men like you will NOT ever be, and I'm sick of your crap, I'll try helping you....A real man would say at this point :
"Well gawd-damn...I guess I was so wrong it ain't even funny...yep totally full of sh*t..OK, Congratulations to Tomi and the whole crew. Congratulations to Latvala. And apologies to the forum members"

Try it..You obviously grew up with no clue how to be a man.. Try it..

Or just continue being NOT.

[steve.mandzij]

What the f**k do you imagine you know about professional anything aside from your little career as a lab-rat?
And in particular what the f**k do you think you know about rally..
To know means something different from imagining you know something...
So how do you know what a professional "way to do things" is?

You don't know..NOT one thing because you are a sad, pitiful, little dreamer... You've been here YEARS and yet you still haven't driven ONE club event..

I wonder if the other people who rely on accurate procedures in the lab know what a delusional and absurd figure you are.. I would certainly worry to be working around anybody who talked such non-stop fantasy driven bulls**t.

Hey NOT, since you seem so obsessed with trying top pretend to be a man, what a man would say after all your years of insulting men who are men like you will NOT ever be, and I'm sick of your crap, I'll try helping you....A real man would say at this point :
"Well gawd-damn...I guess I was so wrong it ain't even funny...yep totally full of sh*t..OK, Congratulations to Tomi and the whole crew. Congratulations to Latvala. And apologies to the forum members"

Try it..You obviously grew up with no clue how to be a man.. Try it..

Or just continue being NOT.
In NOT's defense (whaaat?) he did congratulate Latvala and TGR. Still, he coooould admit he was wrong.

I'll be honest, as dumb and half thought out NOTs comments are, I like seeing what he has to say and effectively discussing with him. He's definitely annoying and hostile but he's ever so slightly growing on me like mold on bread.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[janvanvurpa]

Not to a degree but very much :) It's an event where the torque curve is hugely important, maybe most of all events (my opinion).

PS: I don't share Your opinion about Mexico and Argentina either. IMHO where there is general lack of power every bit of better power curve must be a reasonable advantage. Just have a look on R5 times in comparison to WRC in both Argentina and Mexico. Those cars have been always incredibly slow compared to WRC ones while on other events they have been mostly way closer.

Mirek, simple question: in those R5 cars which are so much slower in MEX and AR, who is driving? I mean long ways to go, is it all the same drivers in Mexico and Argentina as back in European events?

(cars don't drive themselves...maybe---if its different drivers, the best "locally" aren't as fast..Maybe only "richer" Euro can afford the trip??)

[janvanvurpa]

In NOT's defense (whaaat?) he did congratulate Latvala and TGR. Still, he coooould admit he was wrong.

I'll be honest, as dumb and half thought out NOTs comments are, I like seeing what he has to say and effectively discussing with him. He's definitely annoying and hostile but he's ever so slightly growing on me like mold on bread.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

You haven't been reading his ridiculous---and getting more ridiculous-- claptrap where he endlessly tries to sh*t all over people doing things he will never be able to do for more than 10 years..

Superficially he's like a bright 12 year old.....after a while you realise that he is actually a crippled 14 y.o. who has gone bad, and hates the whole world..

One trick pony.

[steve.mandzij]

You haven't been reading his ridiculous---and getting more ridiculous-- claptrap where he endlessly tries to sh*t all over people doing things he will never be able to do for more than 10 years..

Superficially he's like a bright 12 year old.....after a while you realise that he is actually a crippled 14 y.o. who has gone bad, and hates the whole world..

One trick pony.
Trust me, I have. He shits on the "village team" the most, and I'm a die-hard fan of Latvala and now the Jaris. He's dull, annoying and repetitive, but I can't deny that he gives me someone to blast with self admitted fanboyism. It's fun when others criticize him too.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[A FONDO]

What is worrying about Citroen is that it does look like they have big handling problems on both cars. Hopefully they can sort it out, but they are team that tested the 2017 car longest and seem to have gotten it most wrong overall.

Could it be wrong chassis base or just needs some fine-tune setup? Remains to be seen come the dry gravel.


Like it was already mentioned, all of them were in max attack mode in today’s Power Stage, and the total split was pretty small: only 3s between Latvala and Meeke. We can see it as a sign that there’s a real balance between ’17 cars

No. It's a sign that all teams stick to basic setup proven through the years. Same as in 2011. They don't want unnecessary risks, but reach the finish, gather data and hopefully some points. Later they will grow confidence and begin trying extremes. Some will win, some will fail.

[A FONDO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCrnLC23QiU
consecutive passes - JML destroying everybody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUbd0G-_80

[wrc2017]

I'm a fan Meeke & Nagle and want to see these doing well, and very frustrated with the performance over the last 2 rally's. I was convinced they had one eye on the championship this year. But after watching this, they are miles off!

Watch the on-board of Meeke on SS17 on WRC+.... I thought he had backed off to save tires for Power Stage...

Watch this first 5 mins.. after that he basically gave up..." "***k this, I'm not driving this"

Caution the language is +18

[Mirek]

Mirek, simple question: in those R5 cars which are so much slower in MEX and AR, who is driving? I mean long ways to go, is it all the same drivers in Mexico and Argentina as back in European events?

(cars don't drive themselves...maybe---if its different drivers, the best "locally" aren't as fast..Maybe only "richer" Euro can afford the trip??)

Hi Jan, if I am not mistaken Suninen or Fuchs were able to drive at around 3-4 s/km behind WRC.

[cali]

Yes, they only have 10 or so different nationalities in the team! How terribly nationalistic.

You should know by now that N.O.T never lets the facts get in the way of his trolling though.
Latest I've heard was 16 different nationalities

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[Simmi]

I'm a fan Meeke & Nagle and want to see these doing well, and very frustrated with the performance over the last 2 rally's. I was convinced they had one eye on the championship this year. But after watching this, they are miles off!

Watch the on-board of Meeke on SS17 on WRC+.... I thought he had backed off to save tires for Power Stage...

Watch this first 5 mins.. after that he basically gave up..." "***k this, I'm not driving this"

Caution the language is +18

Thanks for the tip-off. And welcome to the forum!

That's a very interesting onboard indeed. Would recommend people watch it before Citroen get it pulled down.

[GravelBen]

Latest I've heard was 16 different nationalities

Probably right, the article I read saying 10 was from sometime last year.

[GravelBen]

I'm a fan Meeke & Nagle and want to see these doing well, and very frustrated with the performance over the last 2 rally's. I was convinced they had one eye on the championship this year. But after watching this, they are miles off!

Watch the on-board of Meeke on SS17 on WRC+.... I thought he had backed off to save tires for Power Stage...

Watch this first 5 mins.. after that he basically gave up..." "***k this, I'm not driving this"

Caution the language is +18

That is certainly an interesting ride!

[car]

Wow... that onboard. Car looks like it has too much power to the rear..
Hope they get it sorted asap because Mr Meeke is one very unhappy man.

[Mirek]

About Argentina and Mexico with the R5 it's because they have to breathe through a smaller restrictor. It makes sense that a lower absolute pressure forced through a smaller opening will create a bigger difference than a larger absolute pressure and the same comparison so I am not too surprised there.

Is 33 to 32 mm so much different?

[tomhlord]

Thanks for the tip-off. And welcome to the forum!

That's a very interesting onboard indeed. Would recommend people watch it before Citroen get it pulled down.

Agreed. Just watched it (with headphones on, fair warning) and it's a fascinating watch. The car is shoddy and he is fighting to keep it in the road. No wonder such colourful language.

[er88]

That is one horribly handling car, potentially big problems for Citroen.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

[GravelBen]

Interesting that it doesn't look so bad on SS16 though, I wonder if they changed something between stages.

[Maui J.]

Great result. Just what the championship needed. Well done JML, Tommi & Toyota.
Unfortunate mistake again by Neuville, but super impressed by his speed. As well as Tanak's pace.
Citroen has some work to do.
Being a Kiwi, I'm hoping Paddon can have a bit of luck next rally.

Now as far as that troll sNOT is concerned. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Everything he says is wrong.

When I asked the forum about six months or more ago if 2016 WRC cars would be allowed to compete in 2017, sNOT was the first to answer with "NO". Proven wrong...again, like most things he posts on here.
You all know the crap he writes on here, he will rubbish any driver who has a bad rally and say they should leave the WRC. He will put down a new team before they they even hit the stages. Fickle.

sNOT, you may have some form of brain that allows you to play with your testes and tube in the lab. That brain may be intelligent, but it's definitely not smart.

[onemanband]

It seems quite obvious that something is wrong with the Citroen car. I do hope it is not something fundamental but rather setup related and they can improve quick.

I expect Toyota to struggle on gravel a bit, hope i am wrong again.

[mozesii]

Assembling a team based on nationality and drivers based on manager connections.

If you study the results you will see that the win was a complete fluke.

We have a long season ahead, the fun just begins.

Citroen, Quesnel, engineers, test drivers, Seb and Seb. What did they all have in common?

Pse reply without displaying your need to boost your inferiority complex

[N.O.T]

What did they all have in common?


that Sordo was spanish

[onemanband]

that Sordo was spanish

Sordo was only a waterboy to Seb...

[N.O.T]

Sordo was only a waterboy to Seb...

but still in the team long before Ogier arrived.

[macebig]

Funny that you mentioned Sordo.Sordo got a C2 and factory backing thanks to Carlos Sainz, who was driving for Citroen at the time and still has very good relationship with the Frenchs...

[Rallyper]

Tommi Mäkinen "This win is dedicated to my longtime fan Greg, from Greece! Thanks for your kind words and support during the years!"

Excuse me. Did Tommi really say that? I guess it´s forum member driving NOT crazy only. Right?

[onemanband]

but still in the team long before Ogier arrived.

Yes, but even in the Loeb era the Citroen was pretty much as French as Toyota is Finnish today.
I think the reason for the 100% Finnish line up for Toyota is simple - the best available drivers at the time for them were Finnish. When they hired Hänninen there was basically nobody else and even after last year, Latvala is still a better driver than Mikkelsen, as he has already proved this year. Or you think Toyota would have a podium and a win without Latvala? And if you look at young guys who are ready(ish) for WRC, 2/3 of them are Finnish.

[itix]

Is 33 to 32 mm so much different?
Well the cross section of 32 vs 33 is certainly affected (33² * pi /4 is a bit bigger than 32² * pi /4).

[N.O.T]

Yes, but even in the Loeb era the Citroen was pretty much as French as Toyota is Finnish today.
I think the reason for the 100% Finnish line up for Toyota is simple - the best available drivers at the time for them were Finnish. When they hired Hänninen there was basically nobody else and even after last year, Latvala is still a better driver than Mikkelsen, as he has already proved this year. Or you think Toyota would have a podium and a win without Latvala? And if you look at young guys who are ready(ish) for WRC, 2/3 of them are Finnish.

Their results were a fluke, in Monte latvala would be 8th and below under normal conditions, and in sweden he would be 3rd and below because he knows sweden.

The only reason they have assembled this team was because of managers and nationality.

Do not get upset kids... the season has just begun, we will see who is who in the next 2-3 events.

[Jewy46]

Anyone else think we should be glad Hyundai (seemingly) had no interest in signing Ogier?

I think if Ogier was in that car he would have 2 wins under his belt already and we could be looking at another VW situation with the best driver in (again seemingly) the best car with a strong supporting cast for the manufacturers championship.

Thankfully what we have instead is 4 teams truly fighting for honours this year!

[onemanband]

Their results were a fluke, in Monte latvala would be 8th and below under normal conditions, and in sweden he would be 3rd and below because he knows sweden.

The only reason they have assembled this team was because of managers and nationality.

Do not get upset kids... the season has just begun, we will see who is who in the next 2-3 events.

Sweden is not as much of a specialist event as you think, specially this year when road surface was consistent and there were no snowbanks... And Latvala with a Toyota gave Thierry Neuville with a very good Hyundai a hell of a fight on day one from 2nd on the road... Even if he is Finnish and knows the Swedish road, don't you think he was the best driver available for Toyota after what he has already achieved?
And the Toyota Yaris after 2 events is the most reliable car in the series.

[Simmi]

Their results were a fluke, in Monte latvala would be 8th and below under normal conditions.

I'd argue that we got the normal conditions at this year's Monte? A bit of everything.

[Mintexmemory]

I'd argue that we got the normal conditions at this year's Monte? A bit of everything.
...and it is exactly because of the ability to handle these changing demands that the RMC winner usually ends up as WDC for that year.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2017/makinen-delight/page/4307--12-12-.html :)

[AL14]

Could it just be that Toyota is not that bad as some of us thought they would be and neither the new VW as someone other are saying now after two very special event?

[Mirek]

Well the cross section of 32 vs 33 is certainly affected (33² * pi /4 is a bit bigger than 32² * pi /4).

I know but it doesn't seem to be that different to me, some 6 percent.

[mknight]

Latvala is still a better driver than Mikkelsen, as he has already proved this year. Or you think Toyota would have a podium and a win without Latvala?

He might be better, or might not, during the whole 2016 season in same car he certainly wasn't.

However, how has he proved it this year already? Was Mikkelsen driving a WRC car on Monte and in Sweden?

#logic

[jparker]

Could it just be that Toyota is not that bad as some of us thought they would be and neither the new VW as someone other are saying now after two very special event?

It could be everything. No matter how obvious some things are, there is so much more hidden and unknown for most of us here.
It is very basic approach to draw conclusions based on stats, incidents, conditions, driver mistakes, flukes, and so on.
In terms of TGR, the only credible way for predicting the future, is the history of Toyota, and the success of the people involved in this project.

[denkimi]

Their results were a fluke, in Monte latvala would be 8th and below under normal conditions, and in sweden he would be 3rd and below because he knows sweden.

what weird conditions where there in sweden then?
he has beaten ogier and tanak solely on speed. i know that realizing that must be very painful to you, but covering your ears and yelling "i can't hear you" isn't going to change reality.

and this was ogier's 8th rally sweden, compared to latvala's 11th. so i suspect they both know the roads by now.

[N.O.T]

he has beaten ogier and tanak solely on speed.

Tanak had gearbox problems early. And he was outclassed by neuville by almost a minute and neuville is nothing in sweden.

too complicated for you ?

[AdvEvo]

Citroen looks a lumpy car if you compare it to the others. Maybe the DS3 was the better base car to build a 2017 spec WRC

[BigWorm]

Citroen looks a lumpy car if you compare it to the others. Maybe the DS3 was the better base car to build a 2017 spec WRC

The DS3 is essentially a C3

[Rallyper]

Tanak had gearbox problems early. And he was outclassed by neuville by almost a minute and neuville is nothing in sweden.

too complicated for you ?

So now Neuville is nothing (in Sweden)? Hold your horses son!

[N.O.T]

So now Neuville is nothing (in Sweden)? Hold your horses son!

we are comparing cars/teams here... if a guy who never achieved anything speedwise in sweden is 1 minute ahead of a previous winner and always a contender for the win shows how much the difference is between a professional manufacturer team and an assortment of amateur villagers who got a fluke result just thanks to latvalas ability in sweden and fords coward decision to go for the points. during Day2 where all was pushing Latvala was slower than everybody and without the cancelled stage the situation could be much different going into day 3...

but as i said you just scrap the surface. You have a month to enjoy your naked kings garment... then we can see who is who.

[denkimi]

we are comparing cars/teams here... if a guy who never achieved anything speedwise in sweden is 1 minute ahead of a previous winner and always a contender for the win shows how much the difference is between a professional manufacturer team and an assortment of amateur villagers who got a fluke result just thanks to latvalas ability in sweden and fords coward decision to go for the points. during Day2 where all was pushing Latvala was slower than everybody and without the cancelled stage the situation could be much different going into day 3...

but as i said you just scrap the surface. You have a month to enjoy your naked kings garment... then we can see who is who.
you really need to stay away from whatever drugs you're on. those hallucinations might be giving us all a laugh on the forum, but in real life they can get you killed.

[macebig]

Neuville is nothing despite nearly winning the 2015 event with a sequential gearbox...Arranging accommodation at Dromokaiteio for NOT....

[A FONDO]

That is one horribly handling car, potentially big problems for Citroen.

Meeke is mostly to blame for he lost the chance to prepare as he crashed in his PET, and Citroen never had a great car in Sweden anyway. Not a big deal, it's the only rally in the season with that surface and these tyres.

[N.O.T]

Neuville is nothing despite nearly winning the 2015 event with a sequential gearbox...Arranging accommodation at Dromokaiteio for NOT....

see how he went to nearly win it.... or back to farming.

[pantealex]

We all should be happy that Ogier didn´t choose Toyota, he is better driver than JML...

[onemanband]

we are comparing cars/teams here... if a guy who never achieved anything speedwise in sweden is 1 minute ahead of a previous winner and always a contender for the win shows how much the difference is between a professional manufacturer team and an assortment of amateur villagers who got a fluke result just thanks to latvalas ability in sweden and fords coward decision to go for the points. during Day2 where all was pushing Latvala was slower than everybody and without the cancelled stage the situation could be much different going into day 3...

but as i said you just scrap the surface. You have a month to enjoy your naked kings garment... then we can see who is who.

Ever heard about this little thing called road order? Maybe you should google it and read what effect it has in rallying.
And you are also saying that Ogier and Tänak making mistakes trying to catch/match Latvala was a coward decision by ford?


He might be better, or might not, during the whole 2016 season in same car he certainly wasn't.

However, how has he proved it this year already? Was Mikkelsen driving a WRC car on Monte and in Sweden?

#logic

I think i misphrased my thought a little bit wrong.
What i meant to say was that Mikkelsen was better than Latvala last year because Latvala had a slump, not because Mikkelsen improved that much (although he did improve). Now that Latvala is back on form it would be a far stretch suggesting that Mikkelsen could have achieved what he has.

[smsgrafica]

Why was Ogier so slow in Sweden? He had 2 PETs but still didn't manage to win a single stage. Was it only lack of experience in the car or is there more behind it?

[macebig]

Why was Ogier so slow in Sweden? He had 2 PETs but still didn't manage to win a single stage. Was it only lack of experience in the car or is there more behind it?

I don't think he was so slow.Ok he was slower than his standards but his pace on Saturday was equal to Neuville.On Friday, he was disadvantaged by road position and on Sunday he made a mistake on the 1st corner, so he didn't have a lot to risk.

[dimviii]

consecutive passes - JML destroying everybody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUbd0G-_80

Neuville had better pass from this point imho

[mknight]

I think i misphrased my thought a little bit wrong.
What i meant to say was that Mikkelsen was better than Latvala last year because Latvala had a slump, not because Mikkelsen improved that much (although he did improve). Now that Latvala is back on form it would be a far stretch suggesting that Mikkelsen could have achieved what he has.


Mikkelsen was 2nd on Monte last year and has lost Sweden win in last stage 2 years ago.

How is it a far stretch to suggest he could achieve the same results as Latvala did this year?

(EDITED for simplicity)

[smsgrafica]

C'mon, Ogier has won Sweden 3 times and had nearly same road position as Tanak with the same car. Still, he didn't win any stages, with Tanak going from one best time to another. I don't think Tanak is better than Ogier overall, even more so in Sweden. So, where lies the problem? Is it just that the Fiesta was molded around Tanak and Ogier still hasn't figured out how to extract the best out of it? Is he driving safe to collect as many points as possible until he's more confortable? The last point is in contrast with his many mistakes in Monte as well as in Sweden. So, what is it?

[steve.mandzij]

Neither of Latvala's performances were flukes. Rallying isn't a race where everyone needs to finish, otherwise the results are scrapped. If a driver makes a mistake and the people below benefit, those below deserve what they get.

Latvala managed MC perfectly, knowing when to push and when to back off. In Sweden, he dealt with the pressure from Tanak, got in the zone, and beat everyone at their own game under the same circumstances.

If you're so keen on flukes, Burns' and Solberg's WDCs were purely lucky then.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[steve.mandzij]

The only "evidence" is both of them on same rallies in same car (last year). Anything else is pure speculation.


On Monte Latvala was 4th fastest in terms of speed, 3rd if we disregard Neuville that crashed. Mikkelsen was 2nd there last year (also due to Meeke crash).
In Sweden Latvala was 2nd fastest in terms of speed. Mikkelsen lost 1st place on last stage there 2 years ago. Last year he was 2nd before a mistake that dropped him.

How is it a far stretch to suggest he could achieve the same?
There's no denying that when looking at numbers Mikkelsen was far superior to Latvala last year. His massive slump really brought him down. What also has no denying is that Latvala has historically been better, and when he can focus like he did on day 3, he's as good as Ogier, or better.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[onemanband]

The only "evidence" is both of them on same rallies in same car (last year). Anything else is pure speculation.


On Monte Latvala was 4th fastest in terms of speed, 3rd if we disregard Neuville that crashed. Mikkelsen was 2nd there last year (also due to Meeke crash).
In Sweden Latvala was 2nd fastest in terms of speed. Mikkelsen lost 1st place on last stage there 2 years ago. Last year he was 2nd before a mistake that dropped him.

How is it a far stretch to suggest he could achieve the same?

I compared them not only for last year, because as i said, Latvala had a slump in performance and confidence. Comparing them to each other and Ogier, using him as a benchmark, from all 3 years, kind of proves my point.
Pretty much what I meant was that nothing what we have ever seen from Mikkelsen compares to an on form Latvala, what he undoubtably is at the moment.

[J_n_z]

From this video many would say that this car is slow...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Q2YJJQEZ8

but we know the results.

[dimviii]

Is it just that the Fiesta was molded around Tanak and Ogier still hasn't figured out how to extract the best out of it? Is he driving safe to collect as many points as possible until he's more confortable?

imho these are the reasons.Ogier have matured,and if he is not 100% happy with the car,will not push at his limits.He will go for the points having the big picture in his mind(championship)
I said the same yesterday in my sum up for Sweden.

[EstWRC]

Ogier just didn't have speed and he himself admitted it at the end of vargasen 2 . Looked very frustrated actually

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Still missed to get our first victory @RallySweden , but we keep pushing! 👊 https://t.co/bOFo6kmDKY

[dimviii]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/which-package-is-the-world-rally-championship-asking-ab-1792260087?rev=1486908085826&utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_twitter&utm_source=jalopnik_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[DonJippo]

Excuse me. Did Tommi really say that? I guess it´s forum member driving NOT crazy only. Right?

No Per, he did not, it's me just having fun.

[dimviii]

http://us12.campaign-archive1.com/?u=09a44691b2c032edd751ff2d6&id=4aa46b4331

[AL14]

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/which-package-is-the-world-rally-championship-asking-ab-1792260087?rev=1486908085826&utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_twitter&utm_source=jalopnik_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

https://i0.wp.com/apollo-na-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/1422669822004/if-you-know-what-i-mean.png

[steve.mandzij]

Hey NOT:
http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/latvala-says-his-input-made-sweden-win-possible-873305/?s=1

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[ziggysony]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nImA9omDSrQ my video wrc rally Sweden 2017 enjoy

[N.O.T]

Hey NOT:
http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/latvala-says-his-input-made-sweden-win-possible-873305/?s=1

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I agree, Neuville would have lost anyway because of latvalas input....

they are milking the win as any proper manufacturer should do i give them that...

the fun Begins in mexico, buckle up...

[steve.mandzij]

I agree, Neuville would have lost anyway because of latvalas input....

they are milking the win as any proper manufacturer should do i give them that...

the fun Begins in mexico, buckle up...
The point was for you to see that the village team isn't unprofessional at all. I guess simple minds like yours can't understand basic motorsport.com articles.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[dimviii]

Hey NOT:
http://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/latvala-says-his-input-made-sweden-win-possible-873305/?s=1

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Latvala doesn't say something we haven't see and write here at this forum already from his December first tests with Yaris.
When he started testing we saw almost immediately a faster Yaris at tests.

[dimviii]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nImA9omDSrQ my video wrc rally Sweden 2017 enjoy

excellent video,thank you!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

@JariMatti WRC
First Victory with a #WRC car made in Finland ! #FIN #Proud https://t.co/xtZDYwDYSz
:D

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ogier on Sweden & Mexico:
http://media.sebastien-ogier.com/en/precious-points-for-sebastien-ogier-and-julien-ingrassia.html

[BleAivano]

Finally a proper incar video; https://sbfplay.solidtango.com/video/nummer-1?utm_campaign=&utm_medium=email&utm_source=promo

[jbmarcus21]

Highlights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqEFbmM1cR8&feature=youtu.be

[SubaruNorway]

Nice footage but all passes look the same. My head hurts after 2 minutes. This is well made video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DITKNRHUWCI absorbs the viewer into the place.

Also your zoom is so high I can't see anything around. Even the cars don't fit on the screen sometimes.

Can't really see a big difference to our style. I like to follow the cars closely, that's how i get the speed sensation better. And the reason the car won't fit in the frame is because I'm too close for it to do that when zoomed all the way out. No offence to GHRallyemotion but i think i follow the cars better and my footage is in focus. Probably using a small handycam which won't let you zoom fast without losing focus sometimes.

[SubaruNorway]

Subaru Norway with all the respect to your work,Slowson has a point here. Plenty of times cant recognise which driver is and I have to playback again and again the video trying to see the number at the car.With less zoom there is not such a problem.
Except that, its better when you can watch the car, with plenty of space/road, and not only the car due to plenty of zoom.
Keep up the good work.

How will you be able see the number at the back or side if i don't follow the car closely? You guys are funny, it's only a problem with the Toyota since the only difference is the number, I'm sure you can overcome this first world problem ;)

[Myrvold]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nImA9omDSrQ my video wrc rally Sweden 2017 enjoy

Based on the GoPro position on the inside of the left-hander, are you the one who had his GoPro knocked by a car? :)

[mknight]

I compared them not only for last year, because as i said, Latvala had a slump in performance and confidence. Comparing them to each other and Ogier, using him as a benchmark, from all 3 years, kind of proves my point.
Pretty much what I meant was that nothing what we have ever seen from Mikkelsen compares to an on form Latvala, what he undoubtably is at the moment.

Well I partly agree with your last sentence, but only partly. "On form" Latvala is even faster than Ogier. His problem is that his form usually lasts just a few events, too few for WDC.

The second part is hard to agree with. Off course the car is a big unknown factor but on Monte Latvala was 4th fastest at best.
Now in Sweden he was fastest only on Sunday and basically only Tanak was trying on all stages. Ogier lost it in first corner and didn't push on SS17. Neuville pushed only Power Stage.

Check out Leg 2 results:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/leg.php?e=35751&s=128358&leg=2&t=Rally-Sweden-2017

Neuville would have been 2nd in the leg without SS15 crash, +2s behind Tanak, moving Latvala to 4th.

[Allez Andruet]

Check out Leg 2 results:
http://www.ewrc-results.com/leg.php?e=35751&s=128358&leg=2&t=Rally-Sweden-2017

Neuville would have been 2nd in the leg without SS15 crash, +2s behind Tanak, moving Latvala to 4th.
Woulda coulda shoulda. Check out the final results. Latvala won.

[dimviii]

How will you be able see the number at the back or side if i don't follow the car closely? You guys are funny, it's only a problem with the Toyota since the only difference is the number, I'm sure you can overcome this first world problem ;)

we will be able to recognise the cars as at the videos like ziggysony and others,who don't zoom so much at a car passing with 140-160km/h.

[Mariusz]

during Day2 where all was pushing Latvala was slower than everybody and without the cancelled stage the situation could be much different going into day 3...

Latvala was carrying two spares while others had only one.

[satukata]

Its a pity that people fail to see the big picture and act like plebs.

Tanak could very easily win here but the team are not stupid to let him throw everything away.

from these 2 useless events the only conclusion we can make is that Hyundai are top of the field so far, Neuville and Tanak seem to be the fastest with the current equipment and Toyota had 2 fluke results based on conditions and nothing more.

Of course you can overglorify everything but be prepared for a hard season ahead.

You are totally Idiot! "Tanak could very easily win.." Are you so stupid!!!

[dimviii]

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11155-citroen-in-trouble-with-ill-handling-c3-wrc

[EstWRC]

for f*cks sake just stop it already, everybody is entitled to their opinion and thats it...you have yours and N.O.T has his and in the end of the season we will see who is right...i come here to read about rally sweden but its just shit here.

[macebig]

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/wrc/11155-citroen-in-trouble-with-ill-handling-c3-wrc
From the videos, it looks like the C3 has lift on the front especially under acceleration.C4 was a bit similar but in C3 it looks massive.More downforce on the front could help them.

[SubaruNorway]

we will be able to recognise the cars as at the videos like ziggysony and others,who don't zoom so much at a car passing with 140-160km/h.

That's just because they are further away from the road, and you don't get nearly the same speed sensation. you can't always be since a tree or something is in the way.

[danon]

https://scontent.fsof2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s960x960/16665119_1296998590393031_637827928041085747_o.jpg ?oh=734f8fa60cf9dc475d2f3137a7fa7e32&oe=5938B15C

[dimviii]

watch Meeke at 0,36 and 2,12

https://youtu.be/chnGvHSu02E

[satukata]

Because its an unprofessional team in the way the do things, from head to bottom.

we have a whole year to find out who is right and who is wrong.

You say Tommi Mäkinen unprofessional? or Akio Toyoda (Team chairman) who is the president of Toyota motor corporation!!

Your words are very stupid!! Toyota Gazoo Racing is good team. Maybe some others have even better team or better car(Hyundai), but still Toyota team is very good! I say you better go to doctor!

[Simorally86]

Always a great event, this year even more beautiful after the last 2 years.
Congratulation to Latvala and Toyota, they were really fast! And big thanks to Tanak for his driving...unbelivable!
Some pictures in the link below ;)

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.750180195136024.1073741877.253244108162971&type=1&l=d01534ff42