Rally Sweden 2016

[Simmi]

Oy oy oy that Kirkenaer stage looks brutal. I guess of all the stages that's the one where it's going to look the worst.

[AndyRAC]

Take gravel tyres and run it as a gravel event if need be. It's 2016 - you can't be relying on the weather to ensure an event goes ahead.

[EstWRC]

Looking at the pictures it will be a miracle if the rally takes place. i guess they will decide it tomorrow or it would have been cancelled already?


But im still opitmistic.

[EstWRC]

Great conditions for Ogier in the test :)

https://twitter.com/patriksandell/status/696373708156506112

[tommeke_B]

On Paddon's fb page I asked about the road conditions on their test, and how they changed during the day. Paddon: "The road is staying more consistent then we thought. Of course there is gravel but the road underneath seems quite hard so no ruts."

[tc10a]

Great conditions for Ogier in the test :)

https://twitter.com/patriksandell/status/696373708156506112

Yes, but thats some hundred Kilometers more North than the Rally region

[hype]

Snow from Thursday, but around +2 degrees... wet and cold, brrr.

http://abload.de/img/hagforsxnsqw.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=hagforsxnsqw.png)

[EstWRC]

Yes, but thats some hundred Kilometers more North than the Rally region

but isnt this the solution? to move the rally somewhere more north? its been years now that we have this weather problem.

[BleAivano]

Take gravel tyres and run it as a gravel event if need be. It's 2016 - you can't be relying on the weather to ensure an event goes ahead.

It's not the lack of snow itself that is the biggest problem but weather or not the roads will be frozen or not. Rally Sweden are not allowed to run it if the roads have become unfrozen/too soft.


• Finns det någon säkerhetsaspekt? – Vi ska leverera en frusen väg som är säker för tävlande och publik. Är vägen för lös och spårig drar man i nödbromsen,
det är det vi använder föråkarbilarna för. Det är ”nollbilarna” som tar beslutet i slutändan.

http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/oroande-vaderlage-rallyt

When the roads becomes unfrozen, driving rally cars (heavy/lots traffic in general) on them will ruin the roads completely and that would mean no more rally
Sweden since RS would have to pay for the restoration of the roads and I also doubt that RS would be allowed to use the roads again if they would be ruined.

To organize a rally event on public roads, the organizers need approval from the road owners but also from authorities like the county administrative board for Värmland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_administrative_boards_of_Sweden),
this permission usually contains allot of different areas like safety and environmental effects.

So frozen gravel = not good but doable.
unfrozen gravel = not allowed.

[bluuford]

Current forecast promises at least -5 degrees for Thursday night and up to -20 degrees for some locations for Saturday. That is more than enough to freeze the roads, moreover, road base is still very well frozen because very low temperatures a few weeks ago (that is the reason of a lot of water on the road-nowher to go). That water on the roads dissapears in hours when temperature drops below 0, it is expected to happen on Wednesday. Some light snow is also axpected for most locations after the temperature drops below zero. So, It will be very difficult for drivers because there will be frozen gravel on open sections, ice and snow in the forrest.

Kirkenjaer stage is one ugly place, it is almost like lake, it is in depression and all water flows into this place after melting. This and Karlstad SSS are in danger I belive, but both stages are relatively pointless short sprints totalling a bit over 15km of rally.

So, it will be proper challange for drivers and very fast rally (more cutting) and no room for mistakes.

[skarderud]

I really like M-Sport's this year livery. Nice scheme, simple colours and quite 'agressive' look as a result. Whom do you expect to do better job from Fiesta R5 factory guys, Elfyn of Eywind?
Brynhildsen, no doubt.

[tc10a]

Rämmen @ezo0n
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaoXNATW0AApiPD.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cam7_9iWcAAn9Js.jpg

Fredriksberg @ezo0n
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaoWlMRW0AAw-G5.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CanZ-YyVIAEWmY7.jpg

Shakedown ‏@rallytravel
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaoHfyQWwAAHPx2.jpg:large

[BleAivano]

Rally Sweden just posted an official update: http://www.rallysweden.com/2016/02/troublesome-weather-situation-for-rally-sweden/

Apparently even the reccce part of the rally might risk to ruin the roads.


Safety is the deciding factor where the roads must be usable for the competitors but also for the rescue vehicles.
– It is first and foremost the safety of the competitors and the spectators that decides if a stage is run or not. If we find the
road dangerous we cannot use it, says Clerk of the Course Stig Rune Kjernsli.

On Monday Rally Sweden plans to present the current status of the roads and plans or how to go through with the event
, made in cooperation with FIA and WRC Promoter.

[tc10a]

Troublesome weather situation for Rally Sweden:
The weather situation, with above zero temperatures and rain in large parts of Scandinavia causes big problems for Rally Sweden.

http://www.rallysweden.com/2016/02/troublesome-weather-situation-for-rally-sweden/

[tc10a]

Facebook - Andrey Fomchenkov:

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/t31.0-8/12473743_1027148747328163_5891008278847076974_o.jp g
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t31.0-8/12646883_1027148740661497_2395582772299506944_o.jp g
https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpl1/t31.0-8/12716027_1027148710661500_5590300227538795233_o.jp g

More: https://www.facebook.com/andrey.fomchenkov/posts/1027152793994425

[N.O.T]

Its the first time in years the forum kids were not crying 2 months before the event for the lack of snow and this happens, you really disappoint me people.

[BleAivano]

6 km after start of SS Rämmen, at the first left hairpin. Terrible! @RallySweden (https://twitter.com/RallySweden) @RallyingUK (https://twitter.com/RallyingUK) #WRC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/WRC?src=hash) #RallySweden (https://twitter.com/hashtag/RallySweden?src=hash)



https://twitter.com/ezo0n/status/696410662080286720

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Caoly6AWIAA4B0n.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Caoly57WwAAAtW9.jpg

[tc10a]

Rämmen @ezo0n:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaogMzrWwAAIOsY.jpg:large

[Simmi]

Massively difficult decision for the organisers. If they don't think they can rely on the weather forecast then I think they're going to cancel it.

I'm guessing there's no way they can limit or postpone the reccy? Equally there will be pressure to make a decision early enough that everyone doesn't travel over to the rally - only for it to be cancelled on arrival.

[OnlyRally]

Current forecast promises at least -5 degrees for Thursday night and up to -20 degrees for some locations for Saturday. That is more than enough to freeze the roads, moreover, road base is still very well frozen because very low temperatures a few weeks ago (that is the reason of a lot of water on the road-nowher to go). That water on the roads dissapears in hours when temperature drops below 0, it is expected to happen on Wednesday. Some light snow is also axpected for most locations after the temperature drops below zero. So, It will be very difficult for drivers because there will be frozen gravel on open sections, ice and snow in the forrest.

Kirkenjaer stage is one ugly place, it is almost like lake, it is in depression and all water flows into this place after melting. This and Karlstad SSS are in danger I belive, but both stages are relatively pointless short sprints totalling a bit over 15km of rally.

So, it will be proper challange for drivers and very fast rally (more cutting) and no room for mistakes.

No way they let the cars out on recce if the road surface isn't frozen.

[stefanvv]

Great conditions for Ogier in the test :)

https://twitter.com/patriksandell/status/696373708156506112

Looks faster than Sordo on the tests.

[SubaruNorway]

Had a run through Svullrya today and made a video with GPS so you can see where i am easier.
Lots of ice so no worries there i think, they have put some gravel on top of the ice on the main road so it's much better than it looks.
Could be a challenging recce though unless they put some gravel on the narrow part as well haha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk90KegMOwQ

[BleAivano]

If the forecast is correct and colder weather arrives during the night between Wednesday and Thursday. Would it be possible to re-schedule the itinerary?
Cancel the Hagfors and Karlstad SSS stages. Recce on Thursday+Friday AM. Shakedown Friday afternoon. Then put Friday's stages on Saturday and Sunday?

[bluuford]

No way they let the cars out on recce if the road surface isn't frozen.

Ther is simple solution. Road base is still OK, it does not melt so quickly. So, there is 60 cars they need to pass the road twice, that is 120 cars. Stages must be closed for spectators for recce period and opened for locals and recce only, secondly, reduce recce speed. Such amount of cars make the top surface muddy but nothig bad. I have lived nearby such roads for 18 years I know what I am talking

[Simmi]

If the forecast is correct and colder weather arrives during the night between Wednesday and Thursday. Would it be possible to re-schedule the itinerary?
Cancel the Hagfors and Karlstad SSS stages. Recce on Thursday+Friday AM. Shakedown Friday afternoon. Then put Friday's stages on Saturday and Sunday?

This is what Autosport is speculating as a possibility. Sat-Sun rally - http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122726/rally-sweden-at-risk-of-cancellation

[car]

[QUOTE=Such amount of cars make the top surface muddy but nothing bad.[/QUOTE]

Even with studs?

[Eli]

This is what Autosport is speculating as a possibility. Sat-Sun rally - http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122726/rally-sweden-at-risk-of-cancellation

so maybe the teams won't have to worry about the 14 round calendar after all ;)

[BleAivano]

Ther is simple solution. Road base is still OK, it does not melt so quickly. So, there is 60 cars they need to pass the road twice,
that is 120 cars. Stages must be closed for spectators for recce period and opened for locals and recce only, secondly, reduce recce speed. Such amount
of cars make the top surface muddy but nothig bad. I have lived nearby such roads for 18 years I know what I am talking

It depends on how far down it is frozen. It didn't really get cold until after Christmas and then the snow arrived more or less at the same time (working as insulating blanket)
so I don't think it is that deeply frozen. The organizers also seems to be very concerned which I don't think they would be if the ground was frozen.

[sindroms]

Had a run through Svullrya today and made a video with GPS so you can see where i am easier.
Lots of ice so no worries there i think, they have put some gravel on top of the ice on the main road so it's much better than it looks.
Could be a challenging recce though unless they put some gravel on the narrow part as well haha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk90KegMOwQ

For a first time watching - spots on 0:22 and 5:28-5:34 caught my eye :)

[SubaruNorway]

For a first time watching - spots on 0:22 and 5:28-5:34 caught my eye :)

Ok spots just a shame they don't start earlier i think 0:22 could have been more interesting then. 0:40 could be nice with 700m of flat before it, that's 2km from the parking area.

Note that 6:05 is the junction at the bottom and the jump is at 5:55 but the tape is 5m into the forest so not good for amateur filming or foto.

Video from 2011 https://youtu.be/nvQVUZLLoV8?t=3m31s

[bluuford]

Even with studs?

Normal studs are OK. I have driven such roads all the time and usually nothing happens before real spring. even if there was a snow layer on top, it gets compacted by cars and frost still goes quite deep. Good idea is to cancel SSS and carry out recce on wed-Thur. It should be around 0 on Wed already. Or night recce:) Wed+ wed night ;) Loong sleep instead of shake :)

[car]

I hope we get to enjoy the rally...

[SubaruNorway]

Normal studs are OK. I have driven such roads all the time and usually nothing happens before real spring. even if there was a snow layer on top, it gets compacted by cars and frost still goes quite deep. Good idea is to cancel SSS and carry out recce on wed-Thur. It should be around 0 on Wed already. Or night recce:) Wed+ wed night ;) Loong sleep instead of shake :)

It's going to be tricky enough as it is in daylight with the icy roads in Norway, you're not getting up some of the hills in mye video with a 2wd at least, 13:50 was scary :p

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ther is simple solution. Road base is still OK, it does not melt so quickly. So, there is 60 cars they need to pass the road twice, that is 120 cars. Stages must be closed for spectators for recce period and opened for locals and recce only, secondly, reduce recce speed. Such amount of cars make the top surface muddy but nothig bad. I have lived nearby such roads for 18 years I know what I am talking

This is what I meant - limiting the number of cars using the roads (and slow them even better) to reduce the wear to the surface. Surely this is essential to have any chance of saving the event...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A decision on whether to cancel this week's Rally Sweden is likely to be made on Monday:

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122726/rally-sweden-at-risk-of-cancellation

[BleAivano]

A decision on whether to cancel this week's Rally Sweden is likely to be made on Monday:

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122726/rally-sweden-at-risk-of-cancellation

I don't think they'll cancel it but the rally likely needs to be shortened a little.

[N.O.T]

well if some stages are frozen and some are not then the cancellation is very likely.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Why do we need a Frozen road rally? You can't cancel a rally because there is no MUD! or too much much!

[the sniper]

Why do we need a Frozen road rally? You can't cancel a rally because there is no MUD! or too much much!

IIRC it's about too much damage being done to the roads if they're not frozen.

[hype]

Weather forecast changes every day, tough decision for the organisation.
I hope they don't completely cancel it but shorten it.
Will the decision be made today?
I have to know tomorrow morning to cancel my rental car and appartment etc. :(

[SubaruNorway]

Why do we need a Frozen road rally? You can't cancel a rally because there is no MUD! or too much much!

Even in 2008 there was half a meter deep ruts in places where they had cut the corners

[jonkka]

Just for the record - lack of snow has forced event's cancellation only once - in 1990. So if it happens now, it's a very rare occasion.

[EstWRC]

Couple a days ago i saw pics from some stages where the conditions were quite good, i hope they just cancel the stages where conditions arent good.

[BleAivano]

Why do we need a Frozen road rally? You can't cancel a rally because there is no MUD! or too much much!

No frozen roads means that that the first few cars might make it through ok but
for the rest of the cars there won't be any roads left to drive on..

I wrote a short explanation yesterday http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?35901-Rally-Sweden-2016&p=1080127&viewfull=1#post1080127
(http://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?35901-Rally-Sweden-2016&p=1080127&viewfull=1#post1080127)
You could probably get 5-10 cars through but we're talking about 100 cars going through the stage twice so I am sure you understand
that the roads would be completely destroyed long before all of the cars have had their run on the stage.
It would also be a very big risk that cars (especially those who starts pretty far back in the start order) would get stuck in the middle of the road.

[Bartek]

Reconnaissance start today or tomorrow?

[hari]

Planned for Tuesday and Wednesday. We will see.

[Zeakiwi]

Should hold Sweden around South Swedish Rally Time.
https://youtu.be/QBOzFPb0Sxo
Are gravel tyres less expensive than studded snow/ ice tyres?

[HarriK]

More information should be at 11 o'clock

[BleAivano]

More information should be at 11 o'clock

There will be a press conference at 12.00 http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/svenska-rallyt-i-fara


På måndagen uppger P4 Värmland att det klockan 12.00 kommer hållas en presskonferens med anledning av väderkrisen.

[MTA]

The latest rumors says probably no classics in Rally Sweden, and a shorter track.

[GigiGalliNo1]

So when there is no snow on roads in Sweden and no snow no one can drive on the roads? Are these magic roads?

[drive]

Should hold Sweden around South Swedish Rally Time.
https://youtu.be/QBOzFPb0Sxo
Are gravel tyres less expensive than studded snow/ ice tyres?

yes, studded winter tyres cost a bid more than gravel ones

[MTA]

The ground is frozen a bit down so the water has nowhere to go.
Therefore it becomes a loose surface on top of the ice, which is a bit below ground and it does not require many cars to the road will be completely destroyed.
In Swedish it is called "tjällossning".
Googling this so you'll understand why you can not drive on the roads if it occurs.
Only it gets colder and freezes again so it is no problem to drive on the roads.

The weather report says it will be cooler on Thursday and then it can have enough time to freeze again.

[BleAivano]

So when there is no snow on roads in Sweden and no snow no one can drive on the roads? Are these magic roads?

Read again what I wrote and read the RS press release.

The issue isn't the lack of snow but that the previously frozen roads now have been warmed up so that they have become unfrozen. When the frozen roads become
unfrozen it will take a while before the roads surfaces "settles" and the roads become usable again. All the rain the last couple of days have also made
the situation allot worse. Usually many roads will closed for heavy traffic during this process.

Running a 100+ cars rally on roads that have not yet been stabilized will cause the roads to be completely ruined.
It's fairly common, during the border period between winter and spring, that rally competitions are cancelled because of this.

So as I said in a previous post, if the roads are solidly frozen there wouldn't be a problem even if there wouldn't be any snow but since the road are unfrozen
they have become unusable in their current state. Luckily colder weather is expected and I think that is what will save RS2016 from being cancelled.

This article describes some of the basics of the phenomena: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smp.se%2Fvaxjo%2Ffakta-om-tjallossning%2F&edit-text=

[tc10a]

So when there is no snow on roads in Sweden and no snow no one can drive on the roads? Are these magic roads?

It was already more than often explained what is the Problem. Stop trolling ....

[tommeke_B]

Anxiously waiting for the press release. Everything was already booked and paid many months ago. I think that if the organizers cancel this event, it means the end of Rally Sweden in WRC... So many people (including drivers/codrivers) have been telling it since over 10 years, that the event should move more up North. Last years they were always lucky with very bad (rally-)conditions one week before or after the rally, this time it's in the rally-week... It was only a matter of time and luck before they would have to face this.

[BleAivano]

Press conference will be broadcasted live here: http://www.svt.se/sport/motorsport/ska-vadret-stalla-till-det-for-svenska-rallyt/

[hype]

But in Swedish, right? :)

[BleAivano]

But in Swedish, right? :)

I don't know but I would assume they will use both Swedish and English.

[tommeke_B]

@BleAivano, it would be great if you could translate the most important of what they are telling there. :)

[BleAivano]

Delayed. New start time 12.30

Live updates (in Swedish AND English) also available here: http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/live-folj-presskonferensen-om-svenska-rallyt-har

[ruesluporp]

Rally will be held. Shakedown, Kirkenaer, Karlstad SSS and Hagfors sprint are canceled. Recce on Wednesday!

[EstWRC]

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122730/rally-sweden-to-run-with-new-itinerary


only 12 stages and no shakedown and karlstad

[Simmi]

Okay so:

Torsby 1
Rojden 1
Svullrya 1
Svullrya 2
Rojden 2
Torsby 2

Fredriksberg 1
Vargasen 1
Rammen 2
Vargasen 2

Lesjofors 2
Varmullsasen 2 (Power Stage)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

All assuming the cold weather arrives on time...

[hype]

Very very risky...
I don't want to imagine flying there and then it will still be cancelled :/

[OldF]

It looks like the temperature will be below zero starting from Wednesday evening. For the weekend the forecast show sunny winter weather. Pity that there isn’t much snow.

http://www.foreca.com/Sweden/Hagfors?lang=en

http://www.foreca.com/meteogram.php?loc_id=102709214&mglang=en&units=metric&tf=24h

10 day forecast.

http://www.foreca.com/Sweden/Hagfors?tenday

[BleAivano]

Okay so:

Torsby 1
Rojden 1
Svullrya 1
Svullrya 2
Rojden 2
Torsby 2

Fredriksberg 1
Vargasen 1
Rammen 2
Vargasen 2

Lesjofors 2
Varmullsasen 2 (Power Stage)

I don't think Torsby will be run. It says the stages across the border will be run (except Kirkenaer) but Torsby seems to be cancelled.

[GigiGalliNo1]

It was already more than often explained what is the Problem. Stop trolling ....

Apologies

[BleAivano]

No Hagfors sprint. No Kirkenaer. No Historic.

[BleAivano]

Fredriksberg, Rämmen, Värmullsåsen, Lesjöfors confirmed as singel run stages.

[BleAivano]

Also no shakedown confirmed as well as postponed recce.
Norwegian stages (except Kirkenaer) and Torsby are still in pretty good condition.

https://twitter.com/RallySweden/status/696659482923896832

[noel157]

I've seen better rally press conferences...
But, good news we will have some stages this weekend.

[hype]

The two guys look pretty bored and pissed off ;)
Of course it's not a good situation, but come on, it's raaaaaaaaaaaallyyyyyyyyy.

[BleAivano]

Recce will done in the order of stage quality. Starting with the stages that are in the "best" (least bad) conditions.
Also SSS1 will not be run but will be replaced by some sort of opening ceremony. Saturday's stages are said to be the ones
that are in the worst condition.

[jbmarcus21]

Sweden is shortened new itinerary http://goo.gl/2yxO7d

[BleAivano]

The updated weather forecast yesterday evening with colder temperatures is the only reason to why the rally haven't been cancelled.
They also repeat what we've saying that the roads won't be able to handle the traffic unless they re-freeze so it have to get colder with subzero temperatures.

[Filip Giedo]

I've aleady heard some moaning about the organiser's decision, but nevertheless we will still be able to enjoy the rally! At least I hope to do so...

[BleAivano]

Rally Sweden ‏@RallySweden (https://twitter.com/RallySweden) 15s16 seconds ago (https://twitter.com/RallySweden/status/696662124974702592) Regrouping and technical zone in Kirkenær will be relocated to other location in Kirkenær. #RallySweden (https://twitter.com/hashtag/RallySweden?src=hash) #WRC (https://twitter.com/hashtag/WRC?src=hash)

[dodge33cymru]

Glad the rally is going ahead, but I'm wimping out and cancelling my own trip I think, I can probably do Germany/Spain and Circuit of Ireland for the same price as the hire car, tickets and fuel so I'll have to put this back for another year.

Good luck to those making the trip.

[hype]

I'm really not sure...
I can still cancel rental car and apartment for free until tomorrow morning.
The money for the flight is gone already.
I don't know if the money is worth visiting 1/2 of a rally without snow.
Looks like wet Finland to me at the moment.

[dodge33cymru]

It's 17 stages to run, no?

Autosport said:

"Rally Sweden will run with a revised itinerary and including 12 of the planned 21 stages, having been threatened with cancellation due to warm weather conditions".
Nope, single passes only on day 2 and day 3

[noel157]

Press release:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CasOvSyXIAAWSEq.png

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Better some stages than nothing...

Pity about losing the Historics as they often showed them on the SVT coverage. :(

[AL14]

And by the way Ogier will win easy.

[EstWRC]

Not so sure, i think Mikkelsen will push him like last year and also Neuville starting in 3rd pos.

How is the starting positions after Tänak? Because in championship order Evans, Lappi and Kremer are after Tänak. So Latvala, Meeke and other will start after them?

Funny to see people putting Latvala for win or top3 in pickems because he should have the worst conditons out there with Meeke.

[Simmi]

Do people think the lack of snow will keep a lot of fans away or, on the flipside, might we see more crowding in the stages that do run?

[Simmi]

Not so sure, i think Mikkelsen will push him like last year and also Neuville starting in 3rd pos.

How is the starting positions after Tänak? Because in championship order Evans, Lappi and Kremer are after Tänak, so Latvala, Meeke and other will start after them?

Should be championship order WRC1 priority cars. Then people without points like Meeke, Henning etc. Then championship order WRC2 priority.

[tc10a]

Do people think the lack of snow will keep a lot of fans away or, on the flipside, might we see more crowding in the stages that do run?

If the weather is like the forecasts says and it will be cold and sunny I'm sure there will be not less People than normally, but on less stages.
The speed and spectacle will still be impressive, maybe on quite icy roads.

[EstWRC]

Should be championship order WRC1 priority cars. Then people without points like Meeke, Henning etc. Then championship order WRC2 priority.

yes, i guess you are right. It should be something like this then (TOP6 is for sure right)

1 Ogier
2 Mikkelsen
3 Neuville
4 Ostberg
5 Sordo
6 Tänak
7 Paddon
8 Latvala
9 Meeke
10 Camilli
11 Bertelli
12 Quassimi
13 Solberg
14 Breen

[tc10a]

As in all offical Statements only Karlstad 1 on Thursday is mentioned, I think the second run of the stage on Saturday evening is planned.

[BleAivano]

As in all official Statements only Karlstad 1 on Thursday is mentioned, I think the second run of the stage on Saturday evening is planned.

Yes they hope to be able to run the SSS on the horse racetrack on Saturday evening.


I'm really not sure...
I can still cancel rental car and apartment for free until tomorrow morning.
The money for the flight is gone already.
I don't know if the money is worth visiting 1/2 of a rally without snow.
Looks like wet Finland to me at the moment.



If I were you I would probably cancel. To be honest I don't know if I will bother myself this year for only 50 cars or so, I will have to see
what the new itinerary looks like before I make a decision.

[hype]

Yes, I think I'll wait until the new itinerary is published and then have a look at the forecast again tomorrow morning.

[Simmi]

To be honest I don't know if I will bother myself this year for only 50 cars or so, I will have to see what the new itinerary looks like before I make a decision.

Lots of things wrong with the rally this year but the entry list is not one of them.

[Simmi]

As in all offical Statements only Karlstad 1 on Thursday is mentioned, I think the second run of the stage on Saturday evening is planned.

Correct. 13-stage rally according to wrc.com

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2016/sweden-route-change/page/3224--12-12-.html

[tc10a]

Lots of things wrong with the rally this year but the entry list is not one of them.

Definitely not. I expect some serious fights, especially with this shortened distance.

And sorry to be that unpolite, but actionwise I don't see any loss if the historic field is not driving. Compared to the speed and spectacle of the modern cars, it was not really worth to mention in the last years.

[tc10a]

13 stages over 241.48km instead of 331.21km planned

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And sorry to be that unpolite, but actionwise I don't see any loss if the historic field is not driving. Compared to the speed and spectacle of the modern cars, it was not really worth to mention in the last years.

No problem at all. The Historics were just a bonus to watch on the local coverage (and online) while waiting for the next WRC stages to start..

[tc10a]

No problem at all. The Historics were just a bonus to watch on the local coverage (and online) while waiting for the next WRC stages to start..

Yes thats true, but I hope in the new intinerary the breaks are shortened.

[tc10a]

@OfficialWRC: Snow has stated to fall on the @RallySweden route. @The_Rally_Guru tells us more. #WRC

Actual Video from Röjden stage at: https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/696714338053316608

[EstWRC]

Cmon weather!!!

[tc10a]

@mats_data Röjden stage in the afternoon:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CasqzRiVIAAiXIR.jpg:large

[AL14]

So apparently Saint Rally is watching over us once again...

[BleAivano]

@OfficialWRC: Snow has stated to fall on the @RallySweden route. @The_Rally_Guru tells us more. #WRC

Actual Video from Röjden stage at: https://twitter.com/OfficialWRC/status/696714338053316608

That is nice but colder temperatures is more important because if the temps are too warm the snow won't last anyway and will only make it worse.

[Rallyper]

Remember 1997(?) when Kenneth Eriksson won in Subaru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPWDGEp8LlE

[dimviii]

Seb Marshall ‏@sebmarshall

Driving to the airport for @RallySweden recce, this was as far as I got before the call came to turn round…!

[SubaruNorway]

With a bit of luck now the last rain and snow on wednesday could turn into a pretty nice ice layer after it's packed down during recce!

Wonder if they would re add stages...

[EstWRC]

this is what was said in autosport article, As source inside the event told Autosport: "The itinerary is workable, providing we get that cold weather.


if the weather turns good then we could see all stages.

[BleAivano]

this is what was said in autosport article, As source inside the event told Autosport: "The itinerary is workable, providing we get that cold weather.

if the weather turns good then we could see all stages.

My impression is rather that the new itinerary is doable if the cold weather arrives not that they would re-insert the missing stages.

[Simmi]

Agreed I don't think that's what they were saying - and I'm not sure they can add in the stages once they've taken them out.

[tc10a]

If they do not recce the stages, they cannot add it later.
So the 13 stages are the maximum if everything goes well.

[EstWRC]

aaah yes, of course, you are right. i misunderstood that.

[skarderud]

Remember 1997(?) when Kenneth Eriksson won in Subaru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPWDGEp8LlE
This is probably what we get this year.

[tc10a]

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12654497_935002613221552_4902890922427735997_n.png ?oh=b7b3f12a67ab3d2c79b4da7f0229a5d9&oe=573131C9

[SubaruNorway]

If they do not recce the stages, they cannot add it later.
So the 13 stages are the maximum if everything goes well.

They will recce all the proper stages, so adding a 2nd run to both sunday stages for instance could be doable i guess.

[dodge33cymru]

Were the two passes of Vargasen live in the original? Irritatingly, it will just be one hour of them talking about Colin's Crest, but still better than nothing.

Good to see that a decent agenda is still possible for those going (and sort of making me regret cancelling everything!) with Torsby and Svullrya possible to combine on Day 1 and two passes of Vargasen on Day 2.

[tc10a]

Were the two passes of Vargasen live in the original? Irritatingly, it will just be one hour of them talking about Colin's Crest, but still better than nothing.

Good to see that a decent agenda is still possible for those going (and sort of making me regret cancelling everything!) with Torsby and Svullrya possible to combine on Day 1 and two passes of Vargasen on Day 2.

No, Karlstad 1 was planned live and only Vargasen 1 was planned before. But last year Vargasen stage was quite nice on WRC+

[Evian]

Via some Facebook friends:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/6be3ce2ce2afb485f9a1721147c61aa9.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/661034a197ee92e0de8869271bb63471.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/7c3f8313405c4be7d231fbf26211190c.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/8f85924ffff02dad3fcbf57bcc125445.jpg
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/e50424a0af14d640a31450557cdfdc6c.jpg

[bluuford]

So apparently Saint Rally is watching over us once again...
I told that this rally is going to take place;) When I say "No", then it is "No", when i say that no Karlstad and Kirkenjaer, then its "No" :P

At the moment, each forecast is getting better than previous, So, I am not surprised if they still decide to do second run for some stages (No problem with recce as these are the same stages):) Norwegian stages are going to get proper cold, Saturday stages were the most risky but now it is likely that there will be around -10 overnight (between Friday and Saturday) and there will be plenty of new snow on Wednesday (around 6-7 cm) for Sunday stages it looks like even more snow and proper minus degrees as well:)

[EstWRC]

this is great news!

[tc10a]

Official new timetable:
http://www.rallysweden.com/tavlingen/maps-itinerary/

[SubaruNorway]

Official itinerary, some slight changes on saturday 2nd loop from the French one posted a couple posts bellow from what i can see.
http://www.rallysweden.com/tavlingen/maps-itinerary/

[BleAivano]

Official itinerary, some slight changes on saturday 2nd loop from the one posted earlier from what i can see.
http://www.rallysweden.com/tavlingen/maps-itinerary/

Yes Rämmen 2 and Vargåsen 2 is about 2 hours earlier then in the previous itinerary.

[hype]

Alright, what the heck, I am still going to Sweden :)

[tc10a]

Alright, what the heck, I am still going to Sweden :)

For sure you have to go. Doing my 12th Rally Sweden in a row this year and it was always a big show, also in the "worse" years like 2008.

[dimviii]

Julian Porter ‏@The_Rally_Guru

Sweden on the left and Norway on the right. All they need to separate them is a few metres of empty space.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CauAPZGVIAETd_l.jpg

[stefanvv]

Via some Facebook friends:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160208/6be3ce2ce2afb485f9a1721147c61aa9.jpg

Just great, now we don't have enough snow already..... we have more than enough......

[tommeke_B]

Happy with just a change of itinerary. There were many worse options, great solution from the organizers. Since we never planned shakedown and are arriving only on thursday afternoon there's no big loss for us. We're planning to see maybe 9-10 stages in stead of 11-12.

[dimviii]

Happy with just a change of itinerary. There were many worse options, great solution from the organizers. Since we never planned shakedown and are arriving only on thursday afternoon there's no big loss for us. We're planning to see maybe 9-10 stages in stead of 11-12.

so everything is fine!

dont forget to take some photos exclusively for NOT.
Waiting for updates Tom through the stages. 4 beers from me.

[Mk2 RS2000]

so everything is fine!

dont forget to take some photos exclusively for NOT.
.

Bonus points if they include a dog.

[hype]

Happy with just a change of itinerary. There were many worse options, great solution from the organizers. Since we never planned shakedown and are arriving only on thursday afternoon there's no big loss for us. We're planning to see maybe 9-10 stages in stead of 11-12.

9-10? Wow, that sounds like a tight itinerary for you :)
Which stages are you going to visit?

[tommeke_B]

9-10? Wow, that sounds like a tight itinerary for you :)
Which stages are you going to visit?
This is the plan. It's possible if we don't face any problems on the road... :)
Torsby (only WRC cars) - Svullrya (2x - 2nd time only WRC cars) - Torsby, Fredriksberg (only WRC cars) - Vargasen (2x), SSS Karlstadt (maybe), Lesjofors (only WRC cars) - Varmullsasen

[hype]

Sounds cool, maybe I'll see you on one of the stages. How do I recognize you? ;)

[WRCstratos]

This is the plan. It's possible if we don't face any problems on the road... :)
Torsby (only WRC cars) - Svullrya (2x - 2nd time only WRC cars) - Torsby, Fredriksberg (only WRC cars) - Vargasen (2x), SSS Karlstadt (maybe), Lesjofors (only WRC cars) - Varmullsasen

Wow, at least I'm not the only crazy person thinking about that :-)
Changing on Sunday should be possible, Friday as well.
But Frederiksberg to Vargasen on Saturday morning is really risky. Last year there were 20min more time than this year and it was already really really close (left Frederiksberg after 13 cars). Note that there are many many people at Vargasen, so parking may be difficult. Plus this year there won't be any shuttle services that take you over the lake.

I expect a lot more spectators on those remaining stages, especially on Friday without Kirkenaer. Saturday most people will be on Vargasen I guess, as it is the only one run twice this day.

[tommeke_B]

Sounds cool, maybe I'll see you on one of the stages. How do I recognize you? ;)

Maybe we'll meet. You may recognize me, normally with my Canon camera and a Nicolas Gilsoul (grey/orange/white) hat. :) How about you?

@WRCstratos, it's not going to be easy indeed, we'll see.

[hype]

Also Canon with WRC sticker on lens hood. Everything else of my clothing is black and grey, so pretty boring :D
Maybe I'll take my Rally Ireland sweater with me.
I'll keep an eye out ;)

[Lundefaret]

Weather is going to be a deciding factor on this years Rally Sweden.


Little or no snow(banks), but ice (cold):
Will level the playing field.
Meeke, Paddon, and Latvala are three drivers that will benefit.

Massive amount of snow the night before (freshly cleared roads):
Will be an advantage to the specialits.
Østberg, Mikkelsen, Latvala and Ogier will benefit.

Snow and warm weather with slush/thawing snow.
Will be a benefit for the specialist, and the Nose End First-er.
Østberg, Mikkelsen and Ogier (and possibly Sordo who does good in poor grip situations with a lot of understeer.)

In general:

Volkswagen:

Car: Clearly the best car for Rally Sweden. The chassis is made for it.

Edit: Risk level means risk of loosing time because of punctures etc. Not only going of.

- Ogier: Will be the clear favorit, and the worse the condition, the clearer the favorit.
Speed: 10 Risk: 2
- Latvala: He has the potential to be the fastets man in Sweden. Low or no snow banks can be an advantage, because he could use more of the road. This will also lead to a risk of exsessive cutting, and then a risk of damage because of that. Win it or bin it seems to be the motto.
Speed: 10 Risk: 7
- Mikkelsen: Definetly with podium potential. If he leads after day one or two, it will be a mind game. He is fast enough on snow to win in Sweden, but seems to tense up when he is in this position, and then its a risk of outbraking him self, or over driving.
Speed: 9 Risk: 6

Hyundai:

Car: Very uncertain about the car. Something in the damper movement with little yaw and squat dosent look right for loose surface rallies, but looks can descieve. My tought is that the car can be a little unprecise, leading the Hynudai-drivers to have punctures etc because of misjudging cutting, exits etc.

- Thierry Neuville: Has been fast in Sweden, but thats more down to the grip level makint the chassis of the old i20 suit him better. If the conditions suits him (good and predictable grip), he is in for a shot fighting for a podium position.
Speed: 8 Risk: 6
- Dani Sordo: A dark horse in Sweden. If its low grip and he is forced to drive with an understeering car, he can be very fast. He can be the surprise of the rally if the conditions become him.
Speed: 7 Risk: 5
- Haydon Paddon: With low or no snow banks he is a clear outsider, and I would tip him for a podium fight. If its fresh snow and snow banks, he could be in troubble if the early results has been to good. With horns growing out of his helmet he could miss judge an exit and loose a lot of time/or go of.
Speed: 8 Risk: 7

Citroën:

Car: If its good grip (ice), it is one of the fastest cars in Sweden. If its low grip (fresh snow), it can be very difficult to find the right set up.

- Kris Meeke: With high grip I see him challenging for the podium, and setting fastest times. With low grip I think he will struggle.
Speed: 9 Risk: 7
- AL Qassimi: Will fight for top 5-6, depending on how many of the top drivers that will go of.
Speed: 6 Risk: 5
- Craig Breen: Will fight with Camilli to be the best of the "new ones".
Speed: 6 Risk: 8

Ford:

Car: Very good for all Swedish conditions, and definetly fast enough to win.

- Mads Østberg: Very dependent on his set up the first day. He often misses on this, making the next two days a fight to get the right set up, setting good stage times the last day. If he hits the set up, he will be in a fight for a podium.
Speed (with right set up): 9 Risk: 3
- Eric Camilli: With good grip and little snow he can fight for 4-6, depending on how many of the faster guys that go off. Towards the end of the rally I expect him to be a positive surprise regarding stage times.
Speed: 6 Risk: 6

Privateers:
- Ott Tänak: The tires will be an issue. Ott is fast, and will have an advantage if there is little snow.
Speed: 7 Risk: 7
- Henning Solberg: On the right day he can be a big surprise, but he has driven to little lately. Should aim to be the best privateer. A top 5 finish would be a huge accomplishment.
Speed: 7 Risk 6
- Yazeed: Will have the same speed as Camilli.
Speed: 6 Risk: 7
- Bertelli: Will be easier with out fresh snow. Will have to fight very hard to be faster than the best WR2.
Speed: 4 Risk: 9

WRC2:
The WRC 2race carries a lot of prestige, and will be a wild race with factory drivers challenged by wanting-to-become-factory drivers.

Skoda: Very fast car, and the bench mark in the class.

- Lappi: A very fast driver. Will challenge for the win, and with a trouble free finish will be secured a podium.
Speed: 9 Risk: 7
- Tideman: The favorit. Extremely fast in Sweden, but needs to be in the right frame of mind.
Speed: 10 Risk: 6

Ford: Very good car, especially with the Evo upgrade.

- Evans: I will be pleasantly surprised if he can mingle with Lappi and Tideman.
Speed: 7 Risk: 5
- Brynhildsen: Very fast, but was a little disappointing (edited, NOT disappointing) in the last Norwegian Championgship round. Is a "cutter". Can be very fast on the right day. I expect him to be one of the closest rivals to the Skoda gang.

Edit: About 10 people have contacted me letting me know that Eyvind used WRC tires (wider 15" compared to a faster narrow 16") on Rally Finnskogen, the last round of the Norwegian Championship. This taken in to account, and the speed was not disappointing at all!
Sorry for the oversight. I couldnt attend the rally because I was working as a driving instructor on a frozen lake for Hankook in another part of Norway.

Speed: 8 Risk: 7

Privateers:
The will most likely be devided in two groups.
Fight to challenge for the last podium position:
- Åhlin
- Grøndal

Fight for top 4 spot:
- Pärn
- Aasen
- Berqvist
- Suninen

The WRC2 race will be extremly exiting, at least the fight for 3rd.

Looking forward to Rally Sweden!

[hype]

GPS Sync of the Onboards on rally-maps.com is not working anymore?

[Simmi]

Given I'm flying out tomorrow I'm super nervous it still won't run.

We still need that big chill: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122741?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[dodge33cymru]

Thursday and Friday forecasts seem to have gotten slightly higher again, although still below zero, and no sign of snow in them until Saturday.

[Fly]

[QUOTE=Lundefaret;1080346]Weather is going to be a deciding factor on this years Rally Sweden.

- AL Qassimi: Will fight for top 5-6, depending on how many of the top drivers that will go of.
Speed: 6 Risk: 5

- Brynhildsen: Very fast, but was a little disapointing in the last Norwegian Championgship round. Is a "cutter". Can be very fast on the right day. I expect him to be one of the closest rivals to the Skoda gang.
Speed: 8 Risk: 7

Good preview. Thanks!

However, I don't think Al Qassimi will be faster than the WRC2 top guys. Top 10 will be as high as he can dream of.

Brynildsen was the only one with WRC tires in Norway last week-end. A disadvantage.

[hype]

Given I'm flying out tomorrow I'm super nervous it still won't run.

We still need that big chill: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122741?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Yea, same here.
I'm flying on Thursday.
If it's cancelled we'll all meet somewhere and comfort ourselves.
But know let's be more optimistic :)

[SubaruNorway]

Up to 10cm of snow on saturday now, gravel would have been better :(

[Luijbregts]

Well, weather is looking good but will be tricky when the snow falls, especially for nr 1 and 2 on the road. Looking good for Østberg, Latvala and Mikkelsen877

[hype]

I'm a bit confused about the service park.
Is there something in Karlstad worth going?
Or in Hagfors?

[SubaruNorway]

I'm a bit confused about the service park.
Is there something in Karlstad worth going?
Or in Hagfors?

Only morning and evening service in Karlstad and SSS before service on saturday.
Tyre and light fitting zone in Hagfors.

[b3637853]

Great preview Lundefaret, but now we want this before every rally!

[Lundefaret]

[QUOTE=Lundefaret;1080346]Weather is going to be a deciding factor on this years Rally Sweden.

- AL Qassimi: Will fight for top 5-6, depending on how many of the top drivers that will go of.
Speed: 6 Risk: 5

- Brynhildsen: Very fast, but was a little disapointing in the last Norwegian Championgship round. Is a "cutter". Can be very fast on the right day. I expect him to be one of the closest rivals to the Skoda gang.
Speed: 8 Risk: 7

Good preview. Thanks!

However, I don't think Al Qassimi will be faster than the WRC2 top guys. Top 10 will be as high as he can dream of.

Brynildsen was the only one with WRC tires in Norway last week-end. A disadvantage.

I agree with You on Al Qassimi, maybe a bit to positive there, wich is rear for me :)
Also agree on Brynildsen.

If its cold and ice and little or no snow, I also unfortunatly think we can see some dramatic accidents.

Depending on the weather, I am expecting a high risk rate of accidents.

[Lundefaret]

Great preview Lundefaret, but now we want this before every rally!

Thanks :) But cant promise that :)

[Simmi]

Agree on it probably being quite an attritional rally due to accidents. Also I can't imagine many people will bother to Rally 2 given the non-representative conditions. We've already seen people neglecting to do the reccy due to this. Some privateers may just opt to save money.

[nafpaktos]

http://s14.postimg.org/p14ay1bj5/potam.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
image upload no ads (http://postimage.org/)

[itix]

See you saturday and sunday fellow rally friends! Sorry for not making a large enough offering to the rally weather gods this year!

[Eli]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122741 Rally Sweden & it's future...

[EstWRC]

Reading that autosport article and seeing some pictures from twitter i think we wont find out till friday if the rally 100% goes or not.

[BleAivano]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122741 Rally Sweden & it's future...

Sure give the winter rally to Rovaniemi and let Rally Sweden have Finland's summer spot. ;)

I think RS is in a difficult situation, move it too far north, while there might be enough snow there might not be a sufficient population/sponsor basis.
You could compromise and move it to central Dalarna like Mora-Leksand-Falun which is very lovely (scenic area) but that area isn't particular
more snow safe then the Hagfors region, although this year's lack of snow is a bit "extreme", so in that case they could just as well stay where they are now.

[AL14]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122741 Rally Sweden & it's future...

OT: Is David Evans interviewing himself in that article? Are we came at this point?

[nafpaktos]

i think this form is easier for someone to read it than read a really big article.i like it!!

[COD]

Sure give the winter rally to Rovaniemi and let Rally Sweden have Finland's summer spot. ;)

I think RS is in a difficult situation, move it too far north, while there might be enough snow there might not be a sufficient population/sponsor basis.
You could compromise and move it to central Dalarna like Mora-Leksand-Falun which is very lovely (scenic area) but that area isn't particular
more snow safe then the Hagfors region, although this year's lack of snow is a bit "extreme", so in that case they could just as well stay where they are now.

The rally used to go up to Falun area, so I have always wondered why they won't move it up there. There should be enough hotels and surely is a bit more snowsafe

[AndyRAC]

Sure give the winter rally to Rovaniemi and let Rally Sweden have Finland's summer spot. ;)

I think RS is in a difficult situation, move it too far north, while there might be enough snow there might not be a sufficient population/sponsor basis.
You could compromise and move it to central Dalarna like Mora-Leksand-Falun which is very lovely (scenic area) but that area isn't particular
more snow safe then the Hagfors region, although this year's lack of snow is a bit "extreme", so in that case they could just as well stay where they are now.

Moving it north is a no-brainer. However, who will fund/ sponsor the event? You think of Sweden as a 'rally country' but if they struggle to make any profit from their WRC event , why carry on with it? It would be a great shame to lose Sweden, but the WRC should always have a winter round! I hope I'm wrong, but I think Sweden is on borrowed time as a WRC event.
Are Canada, Russia, USA, etc interested in a winter WRC event?

[EstWRC]

Well, last week there was an article that Canada and Japan are interested.

[BleAivano]

The rally used to go up to Falun area, so I have always wondered why they won't move it up there.
There should be enough hotels and surely is a bit more snowsafe

The thing is that it isn't that (enough) much more snow safe then the Hagfors area, they don't have any snow today either so that wouldn't have a made a difference.
There are plenty of hotels in the area, especially in Tällberg (http://tallbergsby.se/en/) which have several larger hotels and bunch of smaller ones.


Moving it north is a no-brainer.

Move it north? Where? Sweden is not a motorsport friendly country, quite the opposite.
The issue with the moving it north to somewhere very snow safe is that it likely have a lot less population, basically
where there are allot of snow, there aren't that many people living.

Östersund is in Jämtland province, about 110'000 people live there + 200'000 in Trodnheim. So you've got about 300'000 people
compared to 100'000 in Karlstad alone+ 200'000 in the rest of Värmland + 1.7 million in Oslo metropolitan area + 500-600'000 in Akershus county.
Then within the same distance (or very close) as between Trondheim and Östersund, you also have Västmanland (1/4 million),
Södermanland (300K) and Dalarna (300K).

You do the math but the difference in the population basis itself is very large.

[Gregor Osredkar]

Is there any video of point 1 SS Rojden according to rally magazine, there at farmhouses?

[jens]

The thing is that it isn't that (enough) much more snow safe then the Hagfors area, they don't have any snow today either so that wouldn't have a made a difference.
There are plenty of hotels in the area, especially in Tällberg (http://tallbergsby.se/en/) which have several larger hotels and bunch of smaller ones.

So where does the "snow-safe" area start in Sweden? Is there sufficient snow in, say, Östersund? And would it be a viable place for holding a WRC rally there?

[nafpaktos]

An iconic event is already out(Acropolis).If a second classic event leave the calendar this means the true decompostion of the wrc.

[Mirek]

Safari, Sanremo, RAC, Acropolis... people used to say the same many times in the past yet nothing happened except some people dropping a tear.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Somewhere in western Russia would be good.. there must be somewhere in that huge area that is suitable (with sure snow, forest & large towns nearby)...

Global warming makes many places less snow-certain, but I don't think Russia is one.

[SubaruNorway]

Somewhere in western Russia would be good.. there must be somewhere in that huge area that is suitable (with sure snow, forest & large towns nearby)...

Global warming makes many places less snow-certain, but I don't think Russia is one.

Have you been to Russia? I have, not going back :p

[BleAivano]

So where does the "snow-safe" area start in Sweden? Is there sufficient snow in, say, Östersund?
And would it be a viable place for holding a WRC rally there?

1. I don't think there is specific "line" or so but take a look at this map and you'll get a rough idea; http://www.smhi.se/klimatdata/meteorologi/sno/snodjupsobservationer
Have in mind that last winter, there was problems with lack of snow in Östersund as well.
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/jamtland/snobrist-hotar-arctic-cat
http://www.op.se/jamtland/ostersund/vinterfest-utan-sno-och-hjul-i-stallet-for-medar
http://www.op.se/jamtland/are/snobrist-i-fjallen
So it's seems not even Östersund is safe.

2. I don't know (see my previous post). They have an annual round of the Swedish championship but I
think it is a big step to go from a one day event with 7 SS to a three day event with 20+ SS.

[Lundefaret]

1. I don't think there is specific "line" or so but take a look at this map and you'll get a rough idea; http://www.smhi.se/klimatdata/meteorologi/sno/snodjupsobservationer
Have in mind that last winter, there was problems with lack of snow in Östersund as well.
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/regionalt/jamtland/snobrist-hotar-arctic-cat
http://www.op.se/jamtland/ostersund/vinterfest-utan-sno-och-hjul-i-stallet-for-medar
http://www.op.se/jamtland/are/snobrist-i-fjallen
So it's seems not even Östersund is safe.

2. I don't know (see my previous post). They have an annual round of the Swedish championship but I
think it is a big step to go from a one day event with 7 SS to a three day event with 20+ SS.

The "snow line" also has a lot to do with altitude. There are places in Scandinavia, in Norway especially, where there is a close to 100% guarantee of snow, and they are no more north than where the Swedish rally is orgianized now.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Well you could always bring it to NZ and run it down in the South Island up and around the roads of the Snow Farm at Cardrona and the roading network of some of the neighbouring high country stations.

Plenty of accommodation at Queenstown.

[liposh]

NZ winter is european summer (which is full of rallies) but you made your point.

[Mirek]

Somewhere in western Russia would be good.. there must be somewhere in that huge area that is suitable (with sure snow, forest & large towns nearby)...

Global warming makes many places less snow-certain, but I don't think Russia is one.

Off topic, but this is rally Russian style :D (actually it's worth watching with some spectacular power slide into a water splash ;) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQBXDYVebw

[makinen_fan]

Off topic, but this is rally Russian style :D (actually it's worth watching with some spectacular power slide into a water splash ;) )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSQBXDYVebw

Also thats what happens if you try to drift a tank :D
https://youtu.be/qnSoxqLHbD8?t=1m50s

[dimviii]

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/t31.0-8/12694540_10153971534414973_642980841991660068_o.jp g

[Mirek]

Also thats what happens if you try to drift a tank :D
https://youtu.be/qnSoxqLHbD8?t=1m50s

Yeah, I know this one but it was actually Kuwaiti crew, not Russian ;)

[irish_tiger]

Have you been to Russia? I have, not going back :p
Why ? Mafia

[bluuford]

Weather forcats is still good, today is the last day for plus degrees and not everywhere. Latest models are predicting light snowfall tonight and there might be proper snowstorm during the rally. So, those who plan many stages, be careful, roads might be slower than you expect. Temperature on Friday stages drops to -3..-4 in next 18 hours and night befoe the stages, it should drop to -5.. -6 degrees, that is more than enough to make it solid as rock. If the model predicted snowstorm arrives, then top runners will be in major trouble.

[EightGear]

Honestly bluuford you are the only source I truly trust concerning weather predictions.


Everybody calm down, bluuford says it's gonna be fine so it's gonna be fine!

[EstWRC]

Estonians are ready!!!

Ready for @RallySweden with @OttTanak ,@SanderPrn and @DMACK_Tyres . See you all on stages. Omadele pöialt hoidma :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CazPNZLW8AAjN2M.jpg

[BleAivano]

Latest forecasts says cold but snowless.

[dodge33cymru]

Looks like Wales in Colin Clark's Periscope video...

[N.O.T]

An iconic event is already out(Acropolis).If a second classic event leave the calendar this means the true decompostion of the wrc.

you can always watch the sunset if you want romantic moments, the WRC is about spectacle, if iconic events cannot evolve they should burn.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Surely frozen mud and gravel will be different to drive on with studs than on ice ?

[Kielder]

Many times I have wished an edition of WRC Finland covered with snow. Like in 1990, it looks like Ullr has switched things...
I hope what has happened this year will mean that this event will go northern once and for all.

[Bartek]

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/12670840_1295069420510186_6999586876760002923_n.jp g?oh=bf98277f871f25f477536aa7dca91679&oe=573050F3

Sorry, but this conditions looks terrible. Wonder how they will look after 1st loop...

Ok, Powerstage looks even better :)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca2AuqZW8AA5fNn.jpg:large

[bluuford]

Conditions will be very tricky indeed. Tonight everything freezes, and tomorrow night it will be even colder, so, nothing bad happens with the roads (do not panic with that) but for the studded tyres, it will be a challange. Those places where they have small ruts from today, those ruts are going to freeze, this will add additional interest, imagine when the ruts are not in ideal line and you are crossing them in angle? Even better when they are under very thin snow layer, which is likely. Snowfall is crossing the area from the east and north east and it is not yet know how far it reaches, if it reaches to the stages then there will be like snowstorm.
By the way, where is the stage on that picture?

[itix]

Have you been to Russia? I have, not going back :p

I second this... you couldn't do those roads with Dakar suspension travel.

[Mirek]

So far it looks like Pirelli will have considerable advantage.


I second this... you couldn't do those roads with Dakar suspension travel.

Off topic again... but Dakar 4WD have a lot smaller suspension travel than WRC cars because of their rules ;)

[itix]

The "snow line" also has a lot to do with altitude. There are places in Scandinavia, in Norway especially, where there is a close to 100% guarantee of snow, and they are no more north than where the Swedish rally is orgianized now.

Also this is true... My parents has loads of snow over night... and they live in southern sweden (close to Värnamo).
Here's a video from today on värmullsåsen :(

I was happy when my mom said it was snowing at their place... now I am not so happy anymore.

http://iconosquare.com/p/1181846458438327745_261829422

[itix]

So far it looks like Pirelli will have considerable advantage.



Off topic again... but Dakar 4WD have a lot smaller suspension travel than WRC cars because of their rules ;)

Really? Had no idea... they seem to move around so much in their body work. You learn something new every day!

[Bartek]

By the way, where is the stage on that picture?

I think somewhere in the middle :)

[BleAivano]

Both SMHI and YR forecasts says that it still will be subzero temperatures from this evening but not as cold as they anticipated earlier in the week.

[MTA]

Conditions will be very tricky indeed. Tonight everything freezes, and tomorrow night it will be even colder, so, nothing bad happens with the roads (do not panic with that) but for the studded tyres, it will be a challange. Those places where they have small ruts from today, those ruts are going to freeze, this will add additional interest, imagine when the ruts are not in ideal line and you are crossing them in angle? Even better when they are under very thin snow layer, which is likely. Snowfall is crossing the area from the east and north east and it is not yet know how far it reaches, if it reaches to the stages then there will be like snowstorm.
By the way, where is the stage on that picture?

I read from one that does recce now that as soon as there was zero temperatures they would skid and then watering Torsby stage. It may apply several stages.

[dimviii]

By the way, where is the stage on that picture?

last section of rower stage according to Colin

[HarriK]

http://www.foreca.com/meteogram.php?loc_id=102709214&mglang=en&units=metric&tf=24h

Hagfors forecast

[Sulland]

Can privateers in WRCar and R5 choose to use gravel Tyres?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

BORL report on RS stage conditions..

http://en.best-of-rallylive.com/News/Rally-Sweden-the-1-000-Puddles-Rally

[bluuford]

http://www.foreca.com/meteogram.php?loc_id=102709214&mglang=en&units=metric&tf=24h

Hagfors forecast

Do not copy hagfors forecast, It is almost like Monaco for Monte :)

It will be -5..-6 tonight on Friday stages and -7..-8 on Friday morning, even colder on the surface. And also some wind, that freezes very quickly, if they water the stages, it helps a little. especially with wind, it freezes in a few minutes.

[drive]

Can privateers in WRCar and R5 choose to use gravel Tyres?

no, everybody has to use studs. If cold wont come and road conditions worsen to the stage that someone would think to use gravel - that stage will be canceled for sure, as nothing will be left from the road except mud and deep ruts... thats means that no emergency crews would be able to drive through if needed, so that means canceled stage.

Think also - you could see on pictures gravel, but in some places it has to be left and some ice - you dont want to drive full speed with gravel tyres on ice, trust me :D its faster to drive with studded tyre on gravel with patches of ice (sure, studs would be overheated and gone quickly), but its no way an insane driver would want to drive on a gravel with some ice with a gravel tyres...

[EstWRC]

What Ogier thinks about this https://twitter.com/rallyinguk/status/697435185659449345

[EightGear]

What Ogier thinks about this https://twitter.com/rallyinguk/status/697435185659449345
Surprise surprise.

[EstWRC]

Tänak https://twitter.com/otttanak/status/697441878908792833

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Recce notes

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/february-2016/recce-notes-sweden-/page/3229-13391-12-12-.html

[EstWRC]

More from Ogier https://twitter.com/sebogier/status/697448283137056769

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More from Ogier https://twitter.com/sebogier/status/697448283137056769

Thats why I asked earlier about driving with studs on frozen mud & gravel...

[ELPE]

Ogier usually complain and whine all the time. Do not understand why he was complaining that the studs will come lose directly in the gravel and then it becomes dangerous, why does he need studs when he says that it is just gravel?

[bluuford]

More from Ogier https://twitter.com/sebogier/status/697448283137056769

Seems that he has never heard about ERC rally Liepaja :) When you loose studs, you just drive slower on ice. It has happened before that many drivers loose studs in Sweden.

[Mirek]

And that's why everybody who can shall buy Pirelli tyres.

[EstWRC]

It seems autosport made an article from the tweets I posted here :p

http://beta.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122759/ogier-sweden-should-be-cancelled

[SubaruNorway]

Many stages has had a lot of gravel in earlier years with not that much studs lost, it's not such a big issue with the wide tyres.

[Eli]

since when have they stopped using the proper slimmer winter tyres for this event?

[stefanvv]

you dont want to drive full speed with gravel tyres on ice, trust me :D

gravel tyres no, but winter tyres should be fine....

[SubaruNorway]

since when have they stopped using the proper slimmer winter tyres for this event?

2011 when the new cars came, they use the same rims as for gravel tyres now. Brynildsen lost about 1min in 30min of stages to Østberg in Finnskogen last weekend so it's quite a big difference if there's snow or slush.

[bluuford]

Yeah, new tires are much less destructive for the road surface and with these tires it is much easier to drive without loosing all studs. And I must say that cars look much better with these tires as well :)

[EstWRC]

Henning has some advice for Ogier :p https://twitter.com/rallyhelene_g/status/697471642612731904

[Mirek]

By the way ERC Rally Liepaja which was several times held on frozen gravel brought quite a unique spectacle with nice grinder effects in the darkness :p Sadly there doesn't seem to be a lot of opportunities to see that in Sweden.

[Lundefaret]

So far it looks like Pirelli will have considerable advantage.



Off topic again... but Dakar 4WD have a lot smaller suspension travel than WRC cars because of their rules ;)

Depends if You run 4wd or 2WD?

[BleAivano]

All roads will be graded after the recce and new gravel will be put on according to Jarmo Mahonen.

http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/fiachefen-vi-kor-som-planerat%E2%80%9D

[Lundefaret]

Yeah, new tires are much less destructive for the road surface and with these tires it is much easier to drive without loosing all studs. And I must say that cars look much better with these tires as well :)

Regarding tires:

Keeping the studs in the tire will be a decisive factor. And there is actually a lot the driver can do.

The studs grip surprisingly well, also on gravel, but the challenge is to keep the tire/rubber temperature down.
What happens in gravel is that the increased friction and movement in the studs, and the rubber, leads to higher temperatures in the tire.
First You will feel this in the car, because the softer feeling in the tire will give very unprecice feedback, and its almost like driving in mud, where the tire wallows over the road. The studs will give way, and lay down, off course affecting grip, and it gets understeered (the front wheels has a tendency to go first).
A normal tendency is to start over driving the car, and stress the front wheels to much (especially in technical parts of the stage), with corners from 2-4 in series, and especially longer corners driven on understeer.
The driver that can regulate driving and set up to combat this, will have a huge advantage.
What needs to be done is to not exaggerate under steer, or over steer (tough riding the front wheels in constant understeer is the worst).

Sorry to say it, but we are again in Ogier/Nose End First-territory. Where braking and accelerating in a straight line becomes even more important. Also shortening the turns, so instead of hanging on to a long four wheel drift with understeer on the front, You should go in deeper, turn, then go out straight.

Ogier being first on the road will also have the advantage of not having to drive in ruts on the first loop. So if You compare his tires on stage end compared to the guys that starts from 5 and down, there will be differences. The WRC 2 guys will have their work cut out, because with the god grip in the car, compared to less hp and Nm, the change in driving style will be difficult to judge. Too slow mid corner will loose time, to fast will loose studs.

Unless there is fresh snow on the rally mornings, this looks to become more and more of an Ogier runaway.

Regarding brands: In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook (I am connected to the sale of Hankook motorsport tires in Norway). If the WRC Pirelli is built the same way, i.e. being softer than the Michelin, this will be a factor especially in WRC2. And I would expect the Michelins to handle the gravel better. For DMACK, I think this will be a very challenging event.

BTW: I think the "old" narrow winter tires looks much better, because of the extreme profile. But understand the road wear factor. Gravel tires should also be made less wearing on the road (less grip), because they destroy roads.

[stefanvv]

Regarding tires:

Keeping the studs in the tire will be a decisive factor. And there is actually a lot the driver can do.

The studs grip surprisingly well, also on gravel, but the challenge is to keep the tire/rubber temperature down.
What happens in gravel is that the increased friction and movement in the studs, and the rubber, leads to higher temperatures in the tire.
First You will feel this in the car, because the softer feeling in the tire will give very unprecice feedback, and its almost like driving in mud, where the tire wallows over the road. The studs will give way, and lay down, off course affecting grip, and it gets understeered (the front wheels has a tendency to go first).
A normal tendency is to start over driving the car, and stress the front wheels to much (especially in technical parts of the stage), with corners from 2-4 in series, and especially longer corners driven on understeer.
The driver that can regulate driving and set up to combat this, will have a huge advantage.
What needs to be done is to not exaggerate under steer, or over steer (tough riding the front wheels in constant understeer is the worst).

Sorry to say it, but we are again in Ogier/Nose End First-territory. Where braking and accelerating in a straight line becomes even more important. Also shortening the turns, so instead of hanging on to a long four wheel drift with understeer on the front, You should go in deeper, turn, then go out straight.

Ogier being first on the road will also have the advantage of not having to drive in ruts on the first loop. So if You compare his tires on stage end compared to the guys that starts from 5 and down, there will be differences. The WRC 2 guys will have their work cut out, because with the god grip in the car, compared to less hp and Nm, the change in driving style will be difficult to judge. Too slow mid corner will loose time, to fast will loose studs.

Unless there is fresh snow on the rally mornings, this looks to become more and more of an Ogier runaway.

Regarding brands: In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook (I am connected to the sale of Hankook motorsport tires in Norway). If the WRC Pirelli is built the same way, i.e. being softer than the Michelin, this will be a factor especially in WRC2. And I would expect the Michelins to handle the gravel better. For DMACK, I think this will be a very challenging event.

BTW: I think the "old" narrow winter tires looks much better, because of the extreme profile. But understand the road wear factor. Gravel tires should also be made less wearing on the road (less grip), because they destroy roads.

I agree on extreme conditions protecting the tyres, Ogier will have huge advantage all over. I don't understand this "moaning":confused:

[dimviii]

Regarding brands: In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook.

are you sure? its well kown for the opposite.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca3LKSuXIAEBHUG.jpg:large


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ca3Ty7dW4AE3m7e.jpg:large

[SubaruNorway]

"In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook"

Could it have something to do with that the guys that actually drive fast and use the tyres properly are on Pirelli? ;)

https://www.facebook.com/gundersenmotorsport/photos/a.272037259527739.67468.241919462539519/1110816902316433/?type=3&theater

[Mirek]

Depends if You run 4wd or 2WD?

Yes, very different rules.

[EstWRC]

Have a good feeling about Tänak and Dmack here, dmack's studs seem to work well when the conditions are perfect. At the moment they are not perfect but Tänak's position is good, not so far in front and so far in back. TOP5 would be great result.

[Mirek]

Regarding brands: In Norway on the narrow tires we have seen that the Pirelli has a softer rubber, and is more prone to loose studs in gravel than the Michelin and Hankook (I am connected to the sale of Hankook motorsport tires in Norway). If the WRC Pirelli is built the same way, i.e. being softer than the Michelin, this will be a factor especially in WRC2. And I would expect the Michelins to handle the gravel better. For DMACK, I think this will be a very challenging event.

Strange to see this as Pirelli are well known for keeping studs better than other brands because they use different production technology. From what I recall from Jänner and Liepaja (one asphalt/snow the other mostly frozen gravel) Pirelli usually keep studs better there.

If I'm not mistaken the difference is that in Michelin tyres the studs are glued in while in Pirelli tyres they are overmoulded (which shall allow them to use softer compound) but I may be wrong.

[dimviii]

here we are again

Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier

Like often, so much b......t on the net...
I ❤️ @RallySweden and never called for cancellation of the full rally!
Just 100% gravel stages...

Lorenzo Bertelli ‏@fuckmatie37

I have to agree with @SebOgier, we are not in the condition to have a safe rally, is not @RallySweden fault! #NotSafeWithStuds

[dimviii]

FIA rally director Jarmo Mahonen has insisted Rally Sweden goes ahead as planned - despite Sebastien Ogier's call for it to be cancelled.

Mahonen attended a meeting along with rally organisers, WRC Promoter and the teams on Wednesday afternoon to discuss the state of the roads following the first day of the recce and the weather forecast for the remainder of the week.

Ogier: Rally Sweden should be cancelled

"We are running as scheduled." Mahonen said.

"We have already been working for a few days to try to resolve the situation and we remain positive.

"The teams, the FIA, the rally organisation and the promoter are all committed to support competition."

Asked about Ogier's criticism of the roads, Mahonen added: "Of course, we listen to them and it is about safety in the end.

"But at the same time, it is always a little game: they compare to other years.

"It is his opinion and I understand that, but he has forgotten that his team is behind the decision to run the race."

ANALYSIS: How Sweden ended up in this position

Mahonen said the World Rally Championship teams all backed the plan to go ahead with the rally.

"If the weather gets worse, we will see what happens and sit down and take a different decision," he added.

"But so far it looks good."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/122762?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[Mirek]

In my opinion the weather and the road conditions is a big problem mainly for the organization due to possible road damage. For the the crews it means that they have to drive different, they need to keep in mind to save studs and take care about possible frozen ruts but I don't see why it shall be somewhat specifically dangerous. As was said before - Rally Liepaja in past few years was run several times on frozen gravel and nobody was crying that it was dangerous.

[drive]

Have a good feeling about Tänak and Dmack here, dmack's studs seem to work well when the conditions are perfect. At the moment they are not perfect but Tänak's position is good, not so far in front and so far in back. TOP5 would be great result.

I've seen in Liepaja 2 years ago (sort of close conditions) that Dmack lost studs more than other brands. Maybe they updated tyre 'inside' since then, but tyre tread looks the same this year.

Everybody talks about gravel/ice, but forecast says that snow is coming also. If its snow on the road, at least first 3-5 will suffer a lot with wide tires. If less snow - then first 5 will benefit of course.

Most important - how cold will be tonight...

[RS]

Has anyone blamed Red Bull Media House for the lack of snow yet?

[hype]

Mahonen also said that the roads will be graded after recce and new gravel will be put on top.

Whatever, I'm heading off to Munich tomorrow morning to get my flight to Stockholm.
It's rally time :D

[Lundefaret]

Strange to see this as Pirelli are well known for keeping studs better than other brands because they use different production technology. From what I recall from Jänner and Liepaja (one asphalt/snow the other mostly frozen gravel) Pirelli usually keep studs better there.

If I'm not mistaken the difference is that in Michelin tyres the studs are glued in while in Pirelli tyres they are overmoulded (which shall allow them to use softer compound) but I may be wrong.

From the experiences from the first Winter rallies both in Norway and Sweden, it seems that the Pirellis struggle more with keeping the studs, but this is no scientific study, just built up on this years experiences.
If this is the case I think Pirelli may have gone a little too soft in their rubber (if combined With 8mm stud protruding and gravel/warm weather), and that is why this happens.

The softness of the rubber and the studding method (overmoulding), vs stiffer rubber and gluing will be a factor, one way or the other. This will ad another spectacle to Rally Sweden.

[BleAivano]

A pic of one of the recce'd stages:

http://www.vf.se/sites/vf.se/files/imagecache/grid-24/newspilot/Recce%201%20Hak.jpg

[BleAivano]

here we are again

Sébastien Ogier ‏@SebOgier

Like often, so much b......t on the net...
I ❤️ @RallySweden and never called for cancellation of the full rally!
Just 100% gravel stages...

Lorenzo Bertelli ‏@fuckmatie37

I have to agree with @SebOgier, we are not in the condition to have a safe rally, is not @RallySweden fault! #NotSafeWithStuds

Me thinks someone had a little chat with Ogier.

[Lundefaret]

A pic of one of the recce'd stages:

http://www.vf.se/sites/vf.se/files/imagecache/grid-24/newspilot/Recce%201%20Hak.jpg

I will be very pleasantly surprised if this dont end in a canselation...

[stefanvv]

A pic of one of the recce'd stages:

http://www.vf.se/sites/vf.se/files/imagecache/grid-24/newspilot/Recce%201%20Hak.jpg

watching this, I'm thinking for this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92j_xKy_Uc., http://www.autofacil.es/carreras/2015/04/13/juha-kankkunen-bate-record-mundial-velocidad-tractor/24499.html

Still there is snow there....

[BleAivano]

watching this, I'm thinking for this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h92j_xKy_Uc., http://www.autofacil.es/carreras/2015/04/13/juha-kankkunen-bate-record-mundial-velocidad-tractor/24499.html

Still there is snow there....

Well I think it looks more like this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X-ASoZ_4rg

[skarderud]

A pic of one of the recce'd stages:

http://www.vf.se/sites/vf.se/files/imagecache/grid-24/newspilot/Recce%201%20Hak.jpg
If those ruts freeze like this, It will be quite challenging, to say it nice:)

[tommeke_B]

I will be very pleasantly surprised if this dont end in a canselation...

Do you think cancellation is a good option? So much money (millions) has been put into organizing the event, sponsors want return. If they're cancelling this year it likely means the end for Rally Sweden in WRC, so they can as well just try and see what the damage will be after the rally. The only stage I still see being cancelled at this point is Torsby 2... Anyway we'll see, tomorrow I'm flying to Sweden, hoping for some special WRC action. :)

[SubaruNorway]

Been a while since I've been to a rally, still 2min between WRC2 as well?

[COD]

More from Ogier https://twitter.com/sebogier/status/697448283137056769

Of course Ogier want's it cacelled, worst rally for him.

These current drivers have the thought that rallying is a flat out sprint in near ideal conditions. Ok, if they loose studs because of som gravel, how is that more dangerous that slicks on ice in Monte? Just drive slower...

And if they indeed snooth and water the stages and there is constant ice, no problem.

[PLuto]

Do you think cancellation is a good option? So much money (millions) has been put into organizing the event, sponsors want return. If they're cancelling this year it likely means the end for Rally Sweden in WRC, so they can as well just try and see what the damage will be after the rally. The only stage I still see being cancelled at this point is Torsby 2... Anyway we'll see, tomorrow I'm flying to Sweden, hoping for some special WRC action. :)

It is too late to cancel the rally...

[PLuto]

Been a while since I've been to a rally, still 2min between WRC2 as well?

Example of start list to Rallye Monte Carlo - http://rally-base.com/2016/rallye-monte-carlo-2016/start-list/?startTimeTypeId=628

[JAM]

Ogier wants to cancell the rally, because usually we is not so good under umpredictable conditions. For him the unkonwn is a strange thing, and this swedish rally as a lot of unknown forward.

[BleAivano]

If those ruts freeze like this, It will be quite challenging, to say it nice:)

It would, but as I and others have pointed out already, the organizers will grade the stages that were recceied today and then put some fresh gravel on top.

[stefanvv]

how is that more dangerous that slicks on ice in Monte?

There are no gravel crews here.... But I agree with Your point, this is just rally, not circuit racing...

[AL14]

Been a while since I've been to a rally, still 2min between WRC2 as well?

Yes. In Monte on some stages only one but it was asphalt there...

[PLuto]

Yes. In Monte on some stages only one but it was asphalt there...

On last Wales there were also one minute gaps between WRC2 crews...

[Mintexmemory]

It is usually 1 min between WRC 2 why the confusion?

[Mintexmemory]

Of course Ogier want's it cacelled, worst rally for him.

These current drivers have the thought that rallying is a flat out sprint in near ideal conditions. Ok, if they loose studs because of som gravel, how is that more dangerous that slicks on ice in Monte? Just drive slower...

And if they indeed snooth and water the stages and there is constant ice, no problem.

Sorry, who won last year?