Hyundai i20 WRC

[Kielder]

Hyundai has released the first rendering of their Nürburgring Vehicle Test Center that is scheduled to be completed in August. The facility will cost €5,5 million.

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18pp95s8adw32jpg/k-bigpic.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BL8HlBeCUAAg5cM.jpg:large

More information (http://www.reviewhyundai.com/new-hyundai-vehicle-test-centre-at-nurburgring-will-be-opened-by-august-2013/)

[tobbe3]

"Maybe it's old news & I maybe wrong but just heard that Juho Hanninen was the mystery man behind the wheel of the Hyundai at the recent test.

Also heard, that there could be up to a 8 driver shoot out to see who gets to drive for Hyundai next season!"

-Julian Porter

[RS]

No offence but why would they use a driver like Paddon for a development test when he has no real experience? Hanninen has at least driven two recent world rally cars for works/semi works teams.

[Mirek]

Juho has very very good feeling for the car, setup changes, tyres, surface etc. He is very good one for development of new car. On the other hand I can't see Nandan and Vallat letting drivers speak a lot in car development. Maybe I'm totally wrong but the "PSA" guys usually trust the engineers more than drivers.

[GigiGalliNo1]

They trust engineers more than drivers? Where are these engineers from? Ex Peugeot circa 2006? Ex Skoda? Hope Hyundai have engineers who know about the current WRC cars eh?

[navtheace]

Will be interesting to see if they get into an R5 car, as the FIA will phase out the current WRC/RRC cars in 2 years from now and put R5 as the top class?

[tommeke_B]

They trust engineers more than drivers? Where are these engineers from? Ex Peugeot circa 2006? Ex Skoda? Hope Hyundai have engineers who know about the current WRC cars eh?

Engineers who developed the 207 S2000 also, as far as I know. Don't underestimate the value of the experience from developing a WRC car back then. In 2002-2006, the WRC cars were more complex and there was much more "high-end" technology than we see now... ;)

[Mirek]

They trust engineers more than drivers? Where are these engineers from? Ex Peugeot circa 2006?

Michel Nandan, boss of Hyundai Motorsport, was technical director of Peugeot Sport in 1999-2005. Bertrand Vallat was working in Peugeot Sport as test engineer and later as technical director (I think) in 2000-2012. Both now joined again in Hyundai. But I don't want to be too harsh, they also created the miracle called 206 WRC.


Ex Skoda?

It was a little bit different way. The strong player was Armin Schwarz, not engineers.


Hope Hyundai have engineers who know about the current WRC cars eh?

As Tom said, current cars are much simpler than those around 2005. Also at least Vallat was responsible for development of 207 S2000 and 208 R5 till the end of 2012 so he has pretty recent experience.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Ahhhhhhhh.....

[Kielder]

Hyundai Motorsport has today inaugurated its new headquarters in Alzenau:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMozC7BCcAAw5Wq.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMqEKghCQAAyP0s.jpg:large

It's spacious to say the least. :)

[Franky]

So Hyundai has got a huuuge work place, two cars and four mechanics.

[Andre Oliveira]

And plates (http://instagram.com/p/agEDRygLJx/)

http://distilleryimage5.ak.instagram.com/f503916cd42d11e2ad8422000a1fa8e9_7.jpg

[Kielder]

... and a test driver. :)

Being serious, more information (about everything but the (un)known driver): http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/06/13/wrc-news/hyundai-motorsport-officially-moves-in-unveils-alzenau-hq/

[AdvEvo]

Neuville and meeke i think will be the drivers.

[Kielder]

And plates (http://instagram.com/p/agEDRygLJx/)


I really would like to incorporate this number plate (or a similar one) on my forum signature next year. What I mean is that H... ;)

[Andre Oliveira]

ALZ HM 1

ALZ -> Alzenau
HM -> Hyundai Motorsport
1 -> Chassis number?

WOB means Wolfsburg, VW means Volkswagen, and 359 (f.e) means chassis 9 on Polo R WRC.

[GigiGalliNo1]

http://www.pressreleasemanager.co.uk/viewPressRelease.asp?ID=BB6499B7-4458-4B0D-A3B6-BD79B5541CDD

[Carlo]

Neuville and meeke i think will be the drivers.

My best guess is Neuville and Paddon

[bluuford]

I am quite sure they are going to choose three drivers and use the additional testing opportunity as VW did in this year (Extra test days, more milage more experience etc.). And one of those drivers must be pretty experienced with WRCars.

[noel157]

Neuville and meeke i think will be the drivers.

Would be nice but don't think Meeke will be one of the drivers but hey, anything can happen.....
Still think PG will have an opportunity along with Hanninen.

[A FONDO]

Neuville anready has a team. I want to see Paddon and Tidemand on the stages. For the development they can hire some geezer who is not fast anymore but has experience to be an oficial test driver.

[ThomasS]

Paddon has plenty of chops as an engineer , he builds and develops his own rally cars and even had R4 spec suspension made for his EVO because he couldn't afford the ridiculously expensive FIA approved parts.

He's fast and he's gets his hands dirty in a workshop , thats a pretty tempting mix in a driver I'd have thought.

[EightGear]

From Colin Clark:

"@voiceofrallly: This from a good source - Hyundai shootout in Finland during August, confirmed names, Hanninen, Tiedemann, Nikara, more to follow!"

If it will indeed be between 8 drivers, I would personally like to see Paddon, Abbring, Tanak, PG and Meeke added to that list.

[Vaggelis27]

HYUNDAI || News (http://www.hyundaiglobalnews.com/prCenter/news/newsView.do?dID=1814)

[Rallyper]

From Colin Clark:

"@voiceofrallly: This from a good source - Hyundai shootout in Finland during August, confirmed names, Hanninen, Tiedemann, Nikara, more to follow!"

If it will indeed be between 8 drivers, I would personally like to see Paddon, Abbring, Tanak, PG and Meeke added to that list.

They should do thr shoot out directly after QS Wednesday evening, like they did a couple of yrs ago with Pirelli Star shoot out. I know it could be impossible due to logistics but should satisfy the rallyfreaks very much... :D

[Juha_Koo]

From Colin Clark:

"@voiceofrallly: This from a good source - Hyundai shootout in Finland during August, confirmed names, Hanninen, Tiedemann, Nikara, more to follow!"

If it will indeed be between 8 drivers, I would personally like to see Paddon, Abbring, Tanak, PG and Meeke added to that list.

Great, should make a really nice video when guys are pushing 110% fighting for a factory seat... ;)

[tommeke_B]

I think, unlike what most think, that this "shootout" would be more to get to know the drivers/codrivers personally... ;) To see how they work, how motivated they are, how they can analyze the car and give feedback etc... One driver may have the capability to adapt to a new car in extremely short time, but that doesn't mean he is the right thoice on the long run.

[noel157]

Never been a fan of a shoot out. As TB says, one day and one good drive from somebody isn't necessarily a good recipe for a long term campaign. Good publicity I guess. How do Hyundai gauge exactly how fast somebody is? Over a known NORF stage and compare times to WRC regulars?
Hopefully nothing will be decided on a single day alone. Would be much better perhaps taking one or two driver candidates for a week's testing and development and assess how they fit into the team and what exactly they can contribute to the project. Or better still, give P-G and Juho a call, send a contract and start testing. Simples. And maybe also pick up one of the junior guys like Paddon and get the older guys to mentor him for the long term.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Didn't they do the same "shoot out" with VW drivers before the season they came into the WRC with youngsters? How'd that go?

[Mintexmemory]

Didn't they do the same "shoot out" with VW drivers before the season they came into the WRC with youngsters? How'd that go?

There were some impressive drives but Sepp Wiegand appears to be the most German!

[Vaggelis27]

Great, should make a really nice video when guys are pushing 110% fighting for a factory seat... ;)

I believe that you will not lose this shootout!

[Plan9]

I hope Juho will be 1 of Hyundai's drivers next year. I do not know why people think he will be slow on here? He has been pretty solid with Skoda in recent years and showed some promise with the Fiesta earlier this year.

[Barreis]

Panizzi als Hyundai-Testfahrer*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/06/20/panizzi-als-hyundai-testfahrer/index.html)

[noel157]

Autosport saying that Juho has got the gig with P-G and, surprisingly, Meeke high up in the shortlist for team mate:

Juho Hanninen linked with first Hyundai WRC seat - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108164)

Edit- beaten by (almost days) by Mr Kielder in the rumour board.

[EightGear]

Abbring, Paddon, Neuville and Atkinson also on the list. :)

[noel157]

Big list then....so basically anybody who is "free" or between jobs....

[Kielder]

Autosport saying that Juho has got the gig with P-G and, surprisingly, Meeke high up in the shortlist for team mate:

Juho Hanninen linked with first Hyundai WRC seat - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108164)

Edit- beaten by (almost days) by Mr Kielder in the rumour board.

Sometimes is hard to find the right thread to post. Certainly it's time to revive another thread:
WRC driver Juho Hänninen (http://www.motorsportforums.com/wrc/156547-wrc-driver-juho-h%E4nninen.html#post1090686). Go Juho! :)

[RS]

Abbring, Paddon, Neuville and Atkinson also on the list. :)

I'd take Hanninen and Neuville. Abbring and Paddon have not enough experience, Atkinson has been disappointing on his more recent outings.

[RS]

I hope Juho will be 1 of Hyundai's drivers next year. I do not know why people think he will be slow on here? He has been pretty solid with Skoda in recent years and showed some promise with the Fiesta earlier this year.

I agree. Juho compared pretty well against Mikelssen and Neuville and they are both doing a great job now in WRC.

[ThomasS]

Politics. My guess is that Neuville will have to deal with the strong and loyal relationship with Qatar and Nasser if he were to go with Hyundai.

Hyundai also needs a driver for the Asian and Australasian market just like Sordo is required for the South American market.

Atkinson has been no more disappointing than Hanninens recent appearances. Given some more car time the speed would come.

Paddon has plenty of experience at least to become part of the team as a junior driver and he has some not unimpressive engineering skills that would be useful when developing a new car.

Abbring is not fast enough , Paddon cleaned the floor with him in Rally GB.

[EightGear]

Abbring had not driven since Rally Mexico when he started Rally GB. Also he had a wrong setup on day 1. On day 3 he was much faster and made 2 fastest S2000 times.

[tommeke_B]

Politics. My guess is that Neuville will have to deal with the strong and loyal relationship with Qatar and Nasser if he were to go with Hyundai.

Hyundai also needs a driver for the Asian and Australasian market just like Sordo is required for the South American market.

Atkinson has been no more disappointing than Hanninens recent appearances. Given some more car time the speed would come.

Paddon has plenty of experience at least to become part of the team as a junior driver and he has some not unimpressive engineering skills that would be useful when developing a new car.

Abbring is not fast enough , Paddon cleaned the floor with him in Rally GB.
This makes your complete post invalid. Abbring finished one minute ahead of Paddon, while Abbring was doing his very first S2000-outing. On the few outings that Abbring had later with the "VW" Fabia S2000 his pace was always good, except for Portugal where he got caught out on the shakedown (and there was a small dent in the rollcage so he could not start in the rally). He was just unlucky to have a worse contract than Mikkelsen I guess... I have always been sure that Kevin Abbring is one of the most talented drivers around, I hope he ever gets the chance he really does deserve... I'm not saying that Paddon is not a good driver, not at all. But I rate Abbring at least as high... Atkinson is completely out of question for me, I think he had his chances, he can prove something but I don't believe he can ever be a consistent top driver for a complete championship. Also I don't get the thing why there should be drivers from certain countries. It's overrated a lot imho. Paddon and Atko are from important car market Australia/NZ yes, but the impact you can make with rallying there is nothing compared to what it could be in Finland for example.

[Mirek]

I know it doesn't matter in terms of stage times but Kevin Abbring is also very spectacular driver. I just like that...

[ThomasS]

I think you'll find Paddon retired on day one of Rally GB day because of mechanical problems , thats why Abbring came in ahead of him.
Of the 16 stages Paddon competed with Abbring , Paddon was faster than him on 10. He was even mixing it up with Ogier on occasions.

Abbring had full works support, it was a mediocre performance at best, no excuses.

Hyundai sell more cars in Asian , Australian and New Zealand than they do in Europe. I think you underestimate the feeling that Koreans have for Australians and New Zealanders. The historical relationship is very strong.

[Plan9]

I would put Meeke with Hanninen. Very useful as a test driver, still need to work on overcoming his tendency to overdrive the car when he gets it to the stages. I would think they would both fight with each other like Seb and Jari Matti, but that would only add to the fun for us fans. That said I do not know what kind of deal Meeke has with Peugeot at the moment and if they would let him go.

[ThomasS]

Yes strong combination but in some ways they are both at similar stages of their careers , I'm not sure if that serves Hyundai best interests. It doesn't exactly set the world on fire. Meeke for all his talent has lost the initiative in is career and is off the radar. Not his fault of course but its a fickle business.

Atkinson is in a similar position.

[darkstar]

abbring is great, very spectacular! i´m looking forward to his performance in rallye terre de langres next weekend. think he´ll win in 208 r2 cup again. outstanding performance at limousin too, 7th overall in a r2 car.

[rv65]

And plates (http://instagram.com/p/agEDRygLJx/)

http://distilleryimage5.ak.instagram.com/f503916cd42d11e2ad8422000a1fa8e9_7.jpg

Those plates are apparently fake as AB is the code for Alzenau number plates.

[Andre Oliveira]

AB - Aschaffenburg, Bavaria
ALZ - Alzenau, Bavaria

[A FONDO]

FT’s article claims Hyundai confirmed minimum four-year commitment to WRC, with planned investments reaching 80 million euros per year.

[EightGear]

FT’s article claims Hyundai confirmed minimum four-year commitment to WRC, with planned investments reaching 80 million euros per year.

What's FT?

[Franky]

What's FT?

Usually FT is abbreviation for Financial Times.

[A FONDO]

yes, but their site wants registration to read so I didnt post it

[vkangas]

That article is something that should convince even the most skeptic ones about Hyundai's level of commitment to WRC. They are dead serious and will win rallies. Great for the sport!

[mihay]

I hope Kris Meeke finds a seat in a WRC team. He deserves it!

[306 Cosworth]

I hope Kris Meeke finds a seat in a WRC team. He deserves it!

It all depends on how good his run in the Citroen DS3 goes in Finland I think, but I hope he is in with a chance.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Of corse, Citroen could be evaluating him as a potential driver for next year. Perhaps not in the works team, but certainly if they want to contine running a second team.

[Vaggelis27]

Hanninen will be the 1st driver confirmed!

[ProRally]

Hanninen will be the 1st driver confirmed!

A very good decision !!!

[Plan9]

If Hyundai choose either Kris or Per-Gunnar, they will have made at least some of the people on this forum happy.

Will Hyundai do a full season next year?

[rage82]

If Hyundai choose either Kris or Per-Gunnar, they will have made at least some of the people on this forum happy.

Will Hyundai do a full season next year?

They said that 2014 will be a full season

[tommeke_B]

Hänninen + Neuville or Ostberg + Paddon or Abbring for 3rd... That would be definitely the best decision. :)

[andyone]

Ford will not let neuville go easily

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Vaggelis27]

Ford will not let neuville go easily

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I think he will stay if only qatar extend the contract with m-sport or ford come back and take him as a factory driver.

[Mintexmemory]

I think he will stay if only qatar extend the contract with m-sport or ford come back and take him as a factory driver.

Exactly, what is to stop there being a Qatar Team Hyundai? We don't know yet if they (or VW come to think) will be selling customer cars which will make an interesting scenario

[EightGear]

In this interview, Alain Penasse says they plan to field just 2 cars, one for an experienced and fast driver and the second car for a young and talented driver who can grow within the team like Loeb and Ogier at Citroen.

Interview: Le Team Hyundai WRC dans les starting-blocks (http://ww2.autoscout24.fr/interview/le-team-hyundai-wrc-dans-les-starting-blocks/compte-a-rebours-pour-le-monte-carlo-2014/4319/366099/)

Hanninen would presumably be that first driver so I don't think Hyundai will be looking to have Neuville/Ostberg/Meeke/PGA based on this interview.

[amilk]

In this interview, Alain Penasse says they plan to field just 2 cars, one for an experienced and fast driver and the second car for a young and talented driver who can grow within the team like Loeb and Ogier at Citroen.

Interview: Le Team Hyundai WRC dans les starting-blocks (http://ww2.autoscout24.fr/interview/le-team-hyundai-wrc-dans-les-starting-blocks/compte-a-rebours-pour-le-monte-carlo-2014/4319/366099/)

Hanninen would presumably be that first driver so I don't think Hyundai will be looking to have Neuville/Ostberg/Meeke/PGA based on this interview.

And will be intersting that 2nd driver (if Neuville or Ostberg) will be quicker than the 1st one. Hanninen could know the car better but wil miss fresh experience from many WRC rounds. Also not much experience in WRC car for me a bit supprise that they selected as 1st driver but deffinitly good that he will have regular WRC seat.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Neuville won't leave the M-Sport team.... Østberg is under performing... He will do a switch. Hirvonen won't be at Citroen any time past December 2013...

[tommeke_B]

Last year many people thought Neuville would not leave Citroën either... It's simple, he should take the best offer he gets, and I'm quite sure he will have 3 possibilities for next year... If Ford/M-Sport/Qatar wants to keep him, it's up to them to make him stay :)

[Mintexmemory]

Neuville won't leave the M-Sport team.... Østberg is under performing... He will do a switch. Hirvonen won't be at Citroen any time past December 2013...

The whole point is that Neuville isn't with M Sport, he's with Qatar - purely Nasser's talent spot. Now Hyundai say they want a young developing driver to back Hanninen - that rules out both PG and Kris.

[sollitt]

- that rules out both PG and Kris.as it should. Both are yesterdays news and neither was a headline.

[Rallyper]

Should be Tidemand then. At the moment one of the most talented youngsters.

[sollitt]

Really ? What's he done?

[EightGear]

Should be Tidemand then. At the moment one of the most talented youngsters.



Look up the results of Tidemand in Ypres...

[makinen_fan]

Juho named as the official test driver
HYUNDAI || News (http://www.hyundaiglobalnews.com/prCenter/news/newsView.do?dID=1833)

[A FONDO]

Look up the results of Tidemand in Ypres...

Ypres is not a rally.

[Rallyper]

Look up the results of Tidemand in Ypres...

Well, guys. A man can be blind or even stupid. You have to look at the whole picture. If you hint that he´s not competent enough as a youngster driver for Hyundai, you have to considder it once again.

[donlorean]

Juho Hänninen Hyundain testikuljettajaksi | Cision Wire (http://news.cision.com/fi/hyundai-motor-finland/r/juho-hanninen-hyundain-testikuljettajaksi,c9439031)

Juho is confirmed as a test driver for 2013...

[Mirek]

Ypres is not a rally.

Stop trolling.

[Mirek]

Juho Hänninen Hyundain testikuljettajaksi | Cision Wire (http://news.cision.com/fi/hyundai-motor-finland/r/juho-hanninen-hyundain-testikuljettajaksi,c9439031)

Juho is confirmed as a test driver for 2013...

Good luck to him!

[denkimi]

Well, guys. A man can be blind or even stupid. You have to look at the whole picture. If you hint that he´s not competent enough as a youngster driver for Hyundai, you have to considder it once again.
tidemand is not the big talent hyundai needs. he's not slow, but i doubt he will ever reach the level required to become a factory driver.

but perhaps, who knows what wil happen if he can go on long enough. look at ostberg.

[T.Maanteiden kuningas]

Hanaaaaaaa Juho! Just brilliant!

[Eli]

it's only a matter of time they will expose the fact that Juho is their official number 1 driver. it will be very intresting who will join him: ostberg,neuville,atkinson,meeke,maybe even novikov???

[bluuford]

If I would be Hyundai, then I think I need to take a little gamble. There are basically three young drivers who have showed that they are able to win stages on gravel and tarmac and have led rallies at some point, but consistency needs some work. These are Neuville, Novikov and Tänak. Novikov needs some more practice on tarmac (He has too many moments on tarmac), we do not know what kind of agreement Neuville has (he need to be more careful with overcutting - most of his retirements look very similar - Spain 2012, MC2013, Portugal2013 ) and Tänak has missed half year of competition in WRC, but looks like he has learned a lot in terms of driving on the limit and over the limit while competing in local rallies.
Ostberg is rather youngbut very experienced - 59 starts in WRC? plus numerous starts at local level
Meeke - fastest british driver, but he will be 35 nex year already. I cannot consider him as a young driver
Atkinson - Hi will be 35 next year as well+ has not shown nothing impressive in recent years.
Kubica - I think he has something lobger with Citroen and maybe he is more interested in returning to the track

And otehrs are still too unknown

[tobbe3]

Look up the results of Tidemand in Ypres...

Tidemand was in the lead, the he got two punctures. I guess that´s why he wasen´t in the top...

[Rallyper]

tidemand is not the big talent hyundai needs. he's not slow, but i doubt he will ever reach the level required to become a factory driver.

but perhaps, who knows what wil happen if he can go on long enough. look at ostberg.

I repeat if you didn´t understand. Tidemand is at the moment one out of three youngster drivers who he is really fast and have the capacity to be a world champion in the future. Before you say anything else look at his results and times.

[tommeke_B]

Stop trolling.

Put him on your ignore list in stead of quoting him. :)

[tommeke_B]

@Bluuford. How do you estimate Martin Kangur? He has always been very impressive to me, but somehow he seems to be "stuck" in his position. But now we finally see him in a 4WD "top-"car. Do you have some background information about this driver?

[bluuford]

@Bluuford. How do you estimate Martin Kangur? He has always been very impressive to me, but somehow he seems to be "stuck" in his position. But now we finally see him in a 4WD "top-"car. Do you have some background information about this driver?

Kangur belongs to the same generation as Kruuda and Plangi. They formed so called Aava-Sikk youth rally team. I think he was the fastest of these three.. if I remember correctly. I know that he has been fighting with Koitla in 2WD and he has at least one 2WD Estonian title (from the time when it was ultra competitive series). He has never driven 4WD car but I think that he will be fast. I am looking forward to his start. in Rally Estonia. He is still only 20 years old.

There have been two problems in his career:
1.Problem with 2WD Honda was the reason that it is not a proper rally car. Kangur always drives 100% and mostly suspension, axle, fuel pump or smth like this gave up.
2. I think he has had at least 11 different co-drivers. And I think that main reason has been the lack of time of his co-drivers (Sikk, Ken and Martin Järveoja, Kristo Kraag, Silver Kütt, Ots Andres, Jarmo Võsa, Simo Koskinen.. etc.)

[Franky]

Kangur belongs to the same generation as Kruuda and Plangi. They formed so called Aava-Sikk youth rally team. I think he was the fastest of these three.. if I remember correctly. I know that he has been fighting with Koitla in 2WD and he has at least one 2WD Estonian title (from the time when it was ultra competitive series).

Just a small correction. Aava-Sikk youth team was Kangur, Kruuda and Pärn. When they changed the C2 R2s for R3, then Pärn drove with the Renault Clio and Kangur and Kruuda went for the Honda Civic R3. The base livery of Kangur's, Kruuda's and Plangi's Honda looked very similar.

[Rallyper]

I think estimating guys who´d never driven a 4WD is not reallly serious, even if they are talented we should talk about documently fast youngsters IN 4WD. Because they are going into a team with 4WD cars only, right?
I know among those two or three we have clearly Pontus Tidemand. His abilities of being an asset in developing a new WRC-car is not known as well as it isn´t for anyone of the current youngsters.

[makinen_fan]

I think estimating guys who´d never driven a 4WD is not reallly serious, even if they are talented we should talk about documently fast youngsters IN 4WD. Because they are going into a team with 4WD cars only, right?

Cant' agree with you on this. Look how both Loeb and Ogier were picked up by Citroen, they both stared in 2WD categories and then they were given a chance in the top team right away. But... these two are the exception than the rule

[Co-FIN]

..

[Rallyper]

Cant' agree with you on this. Look how both Loeb and Ogier were picked up by Citroen, they both stared in 2WD categories and then they were given a chance in the top team right away. But... these two are the exception than the rule

Yes, they are exceptions as you say. And that´s what I mean. Youngsters like Seb and Seb are not excisting at the moment and that´s why we should be very cautious talking about guys whom there are tenth of in every european country, without mentioning those who are clearly already fast and driving 4WD internationally.

[Mirek]

Yes, they are exceptions as you say. And that´s what I mean. Youngsters like Seb and Seb are not excisting at the moment and that´s why we should be very cautious talking about guys whom there are tenth of in every european country, without mentioning those who are clearly already fast and driving 4WD internationally.

So You think everybody knew who the Sebs would become when they signed them for their junior teams? Come on...

[tommeke_B]

@ Rallyper, I dare you to call some names, of drivers who were extremely fast in a proper FWD-competition, but lacked the speed in 4WD. I have plenty of examples where it didn't take long to get "top" in 4WD too... I think you should not differ too much. It's not like FWD and 4WD are completely different worlds. I strongly believe that, if you are a great driver with a FWD car, you can be a great driver in a 4WD car as well.

And I don't think Martin Kangur is "one out of 10", his car control is amazing. He showed to be extremely fast on tarmac also, what he did in Ypres last year was mindblowing.

[Rallyper]

I don´t right them down. I just think we should be serious and think like they´d do at Huyndai.

@Mirek, what we´re discussing isn´t where to pick unproved18 yrs young guys at 2WD. We´re naming possible youngsters for Hyundai WRC-team.

I´m sure Seb and Seb showed exceptional talent way beyond the guys the discussion is about now, and before naming three names from one country we should look all around Europe for tarmac- as well as gravel and ice/snowspecialists. One could wish to be a bit more selective. I wouldn´t even dream of naming three guys from Sweden (except for PT) at this time of Hyundai´s stage. That´s what I mean. Hope you´ll get what I want to say.

[tommeke_B]

You're right about that Rallyper, maybe I should have posted my question elsewhere, since it's not related to Hyundai in any way. For a young driver (not counting the young current WRC-drivers) I would say Paddon, Breen and Abbring are most likely in my opinion. These 3 are great drivers, but great personalities as well, and that's an important factor also (see Ott Tanak).

[Rallyper]

I´m not PT´s manager but have you seen his website or blog? PT is a mediaman as well as a proven very good driver. You should have him in as well beside your three guys... :)

Pontus Tidemand | (http://www.pontustidemand.se/news/)

[Franky]

PT is a mediaman

I think we need a break from all those "media people". Instead we need a driver with a character who is a very good driver. If there's a character, there's fan and media interest. And if the guy has the capability to win, then everything is great.

[Rallying UK]

HYUNDAI WRC: Here’s the up-to-date story in photos and video of the development of the Hyundai i20 WRC including today's photos of Juho Hänninen: HYUNDAI i20 WRC IN PICTURES (with images, tweets) · RallyingUK · Storify (http://bit.ly/18uTuVi)

[Mirek]

Just realized that the speeding up of things in Huyndai has a good reason. Since next year there shall be the freezing of homologations for three years period. However next year is also last year for current stock i20. If they manage to homologate the old i20, the new 2015 car will have different homologation number and can be basically all new without breaking the rules if I understand that right.

[makinen_fan]

Where do they stand concerning the agreement to extend current homologation for another year? Will the homologation circle go from 2014-2017 or now is changed to 2015-2018 or just 2 years 2015-2017? Does this agreement also involve Hyundai in any way?

[Andre Oliveira]

Bouffier still consider young talent?

[vino_93]

For sure no, he is 34 and half.

If you want to look at France, it's Consani (Stéphane), Chardonnet, Lefebvre, Gilbert, Martin, and Garcia (too young for the moment, but it's next very good french driver).
And Bonnefis and Ancian, even if they are a step higher, are other options.

But I think none of them (except maybe Garcia, let's years passed in order to see if he can confirm) has the talent to become the next Loeb or Ogier.

[sollitt]

I´m sure Seb and Seb showed exceptional talent way beyond the guys the discussion is about now, .....I think that's exactly the point that's being missed or rather misinterpreted. But Mirek has picked it correctly.
Neither of the Seb's, at the time of their elevation to WRC factory status, had credentials any superior to those of some of the contenders today. In fact, in some cases, it's quite the reverse. And yet they are dismissed by some as "not experienced enough", "not old enough", "not fast enough" etc .... Nonsense, absolute nonsense.
There are competitors there, in the wings now, who if given half the opportunities and resources that have been gifted to some others would be in title contention today.

[WUff1]

Well, I think the second driver will be a young fast one - Hänninen is already the experienced older driver. So no Meeke, PG or others for the second car.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Didn't VW say they wanted an experienced driver and a young one? So which is which comparing JML and Ogier?.... :/

[noel157]

I think that's exactly the point that's being missed or rather misinterpreted. But Mirek has picked it correctly.
Neither of the Seb's, at the time of their elevation to WRC factory status, had credentials any superior to those of some of the contenders today. In fact, in some cases, it's quite the reverse. And yet they are dismissed by some as "not experienced enough", "not old enough", "not fast enough" etc .... Nonsense, absolute nonsense.
There are competitors there, in the wings now, who if given half the opportunities and resources that have been gifted to some others would be in title contention today.

Such as? (apart from the Kiwi guy...)

[skarderud]

To even mention guys like tanak is a joke. He had all his chances.

both m-sport guys is young still, i think both novikov and østberg would step up a bit in a other team, a big factoryteam will suit them both. Both has also 1yr contracts.

other young guys that are both fast and lots of 4wd experience, is norwegian guys like Sveinung bieltvedt, Anders grøndal and Eyvind brynhildsen. All of these 3 is blistering fast in N4's, and not only on snow. The would probably beat all in wrc2 if they got the same equipement. Remember grøndal in n4 was fast in sweden against rrc's and s2000's. The other's has the same speed. And atleast grøndal and bieltvedt has never any DNF's :)

[Mintexmemory]

Didn't VW say they wanted an experienced driver and a young one? So which is which comparing JML and Ogier?.... :/
Take a look through your files, they never said that. They set up the second team with Mikkelsen to a) Provide more test days, b) evaluate his worth. Next year if they deem Wiegand good enough then you could see an Ogier / Wiegand and Latvala / Mikkelsen set of pairings.

[EightGear]

Is it really that hard for some people to come up with names from drivers who aren't from the same country as the them?

[Rallyper]

Is it really that hard for some people to come up with names from drivers who aren't from the same country as the them?

It´s quite natural because you know your homeland guys better than mates from other countries. And as long as you are serious and as neutral as possible it´s nothing wrong with that I suppose.

[stefanvv]

Is it really that hard for some people to come up with names from drivers who aren't from the same country as the them?

... said Abbring supporter :D

[EightGear]

... said Abbring supporter :D

I do understand people want their countrymen to fill the Hyundai seat, and yes I hope Abbring takes it, but I won't be lobbying for him or someone else on a public forum.
Some names are unrealistic as well, I mean what has Sveinung Bieltvedt done internationally the past year? Don't get me wrong, it is totally fine to be a supporter of a certain driver, but we are talking about the second factory seat in a WRC team so let's keep it realistic. ;)

[Mirek]

Is it really that hard for some people to come up with names from drivers who aren't from the same country as the them?

Hehe, definitely a good point in this discussion.


It´s quite natural because you know your homeland guys better than mates from other countries. And as long as you are serious and as neutral as possible it´s nothing wrong with that I suppose.

The neutral and serious part is often missing though.


other young guys that are both fast and lots of 4wd experience, is norwegian guys like Sveinung bieltvedt, Anders grøndal and Eyvind brynhildsen. All of these 3 is blistering fast in N4's, and not only on snow. The would probably beat all in wrc2 if they got the same equipement. Remember grøndal in n4 was fast in sweden against rrc's and s2000's. The other's has the same speed. And atleast grøndal and bieltvedt has never any DNF's :)

This is a good example of pretty biased view...

[stefanvv]

I do understand people want their countrymen to fill the Hyundai seat, and yes I hope Abbring takes it, but I won't be lobbying for him or someone else on a public forum.
Some names are unrealistic as well, I mean what has Sveinung Bieltvedt done internationally the past year? Don't get me wrong, it is totally fine to be a supporter of a certain driver, but we are talking about the second factory seat in a WRC team so let's keep it realistic. ;)

You are right of course ;) And you had more point to lobbiyng for him as VW2 driver, than some drivers mentioned here. Yes they are young (and probably talented), that's what Hyunday is looking for, but still we must be realistic indeed because Hyunday would want to make the best choice for them to prove themselves next year. I also could lobby for Bulgarian drivers, we have tallented ones too, but hey, that's just fiction.

[Mitch555]

I can confirm after talks (from an exceptionally reliable source from within the WRC circle, who I cannot name due to disclosure reasons), that Juho Hanninen is not the only driver to have tested the i20 WRC. Sorry Petter fans, it is not him, nor any driver with a current WRC car program.

[skarderud]

Well, good 4wd drivers is closer than good 2wd drivers.
of course i know my local's better than other, but grøndal is know fast international, so when bieltvedt is equal fast to him...

much better sugestion than tanak, Duval and other known crashers that alredy got theire changes too many times alredy.

tidemand is i big talent, last 10 yrs is full of good talents that never got a decent chance to show what they can. They didn't got enough money to even book a meeting....
pontus is in my opinion one of those that should got a decent chance.
both abring and kruuda and other also, but no point for me to talk about them, other people do, and i really don't know them that good.

Estonia has several good drivers, in my opinion tanak ruined the other guys chances by hold up a seat.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Anyone know why Hyundai chose the i20? Not the i30 3-door? In Australia the i20 is like a Getz small hatchback. Not even competing against a Polo TSI or Ford Fiesta. i30 is a tad larger and sells more in Australia in both 5door hatch and wagon and now Euro sourced 3door which will sell more... But I must say, I see some i20's around and they're catching my eye due to the WRC factor... but all the new Hyundai's have the same face/front so it should be fine with the family "look"

[Mirek]

It's logical choice (although I would personally prefer Veloster).

i30 is too big for current regulations. 4300 x 1780 mm for base car is much larger than any recent WRC/S2000. The only close one is Auris/Corolla S2000 which also suffered from being too heavy because recent rules doesn't allow to drop so much weight like with the old 2.0 WRC cars.

i20 is 3995 x 1710 mm which is actually slightly larger than some recent WRC/S2000 base cars (and much larger than Peugeot 206 was). It's also direct competitor to cars of others. All come from B-class segment. The i30 is from one class higher C-segment.

[Mintexmemory]

Anyone know why Hyundai chose the i20? Not the i30 3-door? In Australia the i20 is like a Getz small hatchback. Not even competing against a Polo TSI or Ford Fiesta. i30 is a tad larger and sells more in Australia in both 5door hatch and wagon and now Euro sourced 3door which will sell more... But I must say, I see some i20's around and they're catching my eye due to the WRC factor... but all the new Hyundai's have the same face/front so it should be fine with the family "look"

In Europe the i10 is the Getz-a-like. The i20 is available in 2-door 'hot hatch' and 4-door Polo / Fiesta competitor. The i30 is more Focus sized. As VW have shown, polar moment is everything, hence their decision to go with the Polo / Skoda set-up rather than the Golf or Scirocco. Hyundai are just demonstrating that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Mirek]

In Europe the i10 is the Getz-a-like. The i20 is available in 2-door 'hot hatch' and 4-door Polo / Fiesta competitor. The i30 is more Focus sized. As VW have shown, polar moment is everything, hence their decision to go with the Polo / Skoda set-up rather than the Golf or Scirocco. Hyundai are just demonstrating that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

You are not correct. Have a look in my post. Cars in the market are generally placed in segments A, B, C, D etc. mainly based on their dimensions.

Segment A - Citroën C1, C2, Peugeot 107, Hyundai i10 (before it was Atos), Ford Ka, Fiat Panda, VW Up, Škoda Citigo, Kia Picanto...
Segment B - Citroën C3, DS3, Peugeot 208, Hyundai i20 (before it was Getz), Ford Fiesta, Fiat Punto, VW Polo, Škoda Fabia, Kia Rio etc.
Segment C - Citroën C4, Peugeot 308, Hyundai i30, Ford Focus, Fiat Bravo, VW Golf, Kia Cee'd etc.

It has not much to do with copying rather than using a brain. Segment B cars are ideal for making cars under current rules. C-ones are too big and heavy, A-ones are too small. Also it's logical to use same class car as Your opponent for marketing purposes - they compete with each other like on the market.

[Teme]

I can confirm after talks (from an exceptionally reliable source from within the WRC circle, who I cannot name due to disclosure reasons), that Juho Hanninen is not the only driver to have tested the i20 WRC. Sorry Petter fans, it is not him, nor any driver with a current WRC car program.
Isn't it Panizzi? Or do you mean someone else?

[cali]

To even mention guys like tanak is a joke. He had all his chances.

both m-sport guys is young still, i think both novikov and østberg would step up a bit in a other team, a big factoryteam will suit them both. Both has also 1yr contracts.

other young guys that are both fast and lots of 4wd experience, is norwegian guys like Sveinung bieltvedt, Anders grøndal and Eyvind brynhildsen. All of these 3 is blistering fast in N4's, and not only on snow. The would probably beat all in wrc2 if they got the same equipement. Remember grøndal in n4 was fast in sweden against rrc's and s2000's. The other's has the same speed. And atleast grøndal and bieltvedt has never any DNF's :)

I think Mirek was spot on about your comment. But let me clarify one thing, to mention Bieltvedt, Grondal and Brynildsen in a same post as faster drivers is quite funny now. If you look at current results then Tänak is waay above other in Baltics with an old Impreza. He has the speed, this is granted, but about the personality - as far as I have heard he's quite stubborn b@#%ard. Meanwhile lot of people are praising his technical skills as Gross has not had any problems since moving over to OT Racing vs lot of problems with MM Motorsport.

And I'm far for being Tänak fan, just don't quite like bashing some guys and constantly seeing scandinavians praising their drivers without a reason. Tidemand is an exception for me, but Per's constant praising is funny as hell.
What comes to estonian guys, than they are way behind Tänak and noone has the maturity to succeed in WRC at this point, although some of them are showing some promise (like many guys in other countries). I like many drivers from different countries, so nationalism is not my thing ;)

[Mirek]

The most logical choice for Hyundai young driver would be definitely Neuville but I guess there will be quite a fight for him from all teams except VW which seems to have no reason to change their driver lineup.

[cali]

The most logical choice for Hyundai young driver would be definitely Neuville but I guess there will be quite a fight for him from all teams except VW which seems to have no reason to change their driver lineup.

Neuville for me too - has matured a lot and constantly driving top stage times

[Mintexmemory]

The most logical choice for Hyundai young driver would be definitely Neuville but I guess there will be quite a fight for him from all teams except VW which seems to have no reason to change their driver lineup.

Nothing at all logical in selecting Neuville as No2 to Hanninen! If you are expecting the Hyundai to be quick 'out of the box' it would be a recipe for a 2011 Citroen scenario repeat. Neuville already has better WRC credentials than Hanninen and would not view himself as a No 2 to Juho. Weijs, Abbring, Chardonnet or any other similar whippersnapper without podia to his name would better fit the bill

[Mirek]

Who said the young would be declared No.2 driver? Who said that Juho will be their No.1 driver in 2014? Just asking...

[pantealex]

All press articles here in Finland talk only about Juho´s 6 months testing contract. I haven´t see any mention that he is Hyundai race driver, yet!

[Rallyper]

Tidemand is an exception for me, but Per's constant praising is funny as hell.
What comes to estonian guys, than they are way behind Tänak and noone has the maturity to succeed in WRC at this point, although some of them are showing some promise (like many guys in other countries). I like many drivers from different countries, so nationalism is not my thing ;)

Not mine either, for sure. But there´s not any contradiction in me praising Tidemand. You have to understand that. Beside Neuville (which is a driver already positioned in the top drivers division in WRC) Tidemand is one of very few young guys that has shown the whole package, which I believe Huyndai as well as other teams want out of their drivers, youngsters or seniors.

[A.F.F.]

You are not correct. Have a look in my post. Cars in the market are generally placed in segments A, B, C, D etc. mainly based on their dimensions.

Segment A - Citroën C1, C2, Peugeot 107, Hyundai i10 (before it was Atos), Ford Ka, Fiat Panda, VW Up, Škoda Citigo, Kia Picanto...
Segment B - Citroën C3, DS3, Peugeot 208, Hyundai i20 (before it was Getz), Ford Fiesta, Fiat Punto, VW Polo, Škoda Fabia, Kia Rio etc.
Segment C - Citroën C4, Peugeot 308, Hyundai i30, Ford Focus, Fiat Bravo, VW Golf, Kia Cee'd etc.

It has not much to do with copying rather than using a brain. Segment B cars are ideal for making cars under current rules. C-ones are too big and heavy, A-ones are too small. Also it's logical to use same class car as Your opponent for marketing purposes - they compete with each other like on the market.

In what segment you would place Fiat 500? A or B?

[dimviii]

To even mention guys like tanak is a joke. He had all his chances.

both m-sport guys is young still, i think both novikov and østberg would step up a bit in a other team, a big factoryteam will suit them both. Both has also 1yr contracts.

Novikov and Ostberg this year have( almost )do the same as Tanak.Are they jokes too?


other young guys that are both fast and lots of 4wd experience, is norwegian guys like Sveinung bieltvedt, Anders grøndal and Eyvind brynhildsen. All of these 3 is blistering fast in N4's, and not only on snow. The would probably beat all in wrc2 if they got the same equipement. Remember grøndal in n4 was fast in sweden against rrc's and s2000's. The other's has the same speed. And atleast grøndal and bieltvedt has never any DNF's :)

plenty of local drivers are extreme fast vs wrc2 regulars.
Athanassoulas vs Sandell to name just one.Athanassoulas at his first attempt with s2000 car with no testing.For 3 years before that he had rallied 3 times only.other competitors wereNikara,Arai,Al Attiyah,prokop,Flodin ,Araujo.
plenty ofexamples like that.

[dimviii]

In what segment you would place Fiat 500? A or B?

B

[Mirek]

It's difficult with some cars, 500 or Mini is a good example.

[bluuford]

Novikov and Ostberg this year have( almost )do the same as Tanak.Are they jokes too?


1.To me, Novikov and Ostberg have been even bigger dissapointments than Tänak last year.They are factory drivers,they have factory cars, they have a lot of time for testing..but the results table looks more than embarassing.One podium for the whole team?
2. Why I deared to put Tänak in potential list? As Cali already mentioned. His technical skills are great. It is just astonishing to see that driver (gr N winning driver on the same rally) jumps out from the car at service, takes out his laptop and checks his team-mate WR Car data, tells mechanics what to do and then goes to the next stages. And as it was mentioned before. This WRC has done three rallies and at least two sprints without any failiure. Moreover, in recent rallies he has shown that he knows where is the limit and even if the other driver is in front..he is able to wait and not push over the limit (like in Latvia). And he is thinking more strategically (like in Viru rally, he decided to push when he had advantage - second on the road, road was damp, first few km-s were on tarmac and very tricky stage suited to his older car.

[Mintexmemory]

I still maintain Ott T will win WRC rallies someday. His performance in Sardinia in 2011 was breathtaking and indicative of a big talent. Maybe the M-Sport year was a vital part of growing up. At least I can't be accused of national bias in saying this. (He won't get the Hyudai gig though ;) )

[Mitch555]

Isn't it Panizzi? Or do you mean someone else?

No Teme, not Panizzi. This is a guy who has been competing in the World Rally Championship at various levels the past few years. So could well be the second young driver that has been suggested will be at Hyundai.

[GigiGalliNo1]

HAH! Any more obvious Mitch555

[mohit]

dear all please wait for a bit

it'll be petter and hirvonen/sordo/nuveile

[Franky]

dear all please wait for a bit

it'll be petter and hirvonen/sordo/nuveile

Petter Solberg is a nice guy and a great driver but his time is past in WRC and you can't argue against that.

[skarderud]

Could be interesting to see other m-sport drivers in other cars. Seems like latvala is "back on track", maybe østberg, novikov, tanak and the likes would perform better in a different environment?

[Rallyper]

Now I throw in a torch again. And a swede of course. ;)

What about Mattias Ekström? I think Hyundai have the money to pay him if he want to leave DTM, which I think he should do for another motorsport. His abilities in rallying is well documented and he has very good experience from circuitracing as well.

The only thing - he´s not a youngster anymore, but still he would make a big contribution to Huyndai WRC-team.

[tommeke_B]

Where and when did Mattias Ekström ever put down a decent result? I can't remember... :) I remember some outings with Fabia WRC, but he never really impressed, as far as I remember. And why should they pay him some crazy salary in stead of taking one of the many great drivers with lots of potential who are willing to drive for free? :)

[Mirek]

Now I throw in a torch again. And a swede of course. ;)

What about Mattias Ekström? I think Hyundai have the money to pay him if he want to leave DTM, which I think he should do for another motorsport. His abilities in rallying is well documented and he has very good experience from circuitracing as well.

The only thing - he´s not a youngster anymore, but still he would make a big contribution to Huyndai WRC-team.

Are You joking, right? Ekström did overall 8 WRC events, 3 in WRC car. 6 of those were Swedish rally. What he achieved?

1999 - ones in Sweden 30th and 11th in production category
2000 - ones in Sweden 21st and 5th in production category
2003 - ones in Sweden 23rd and 3rd in production category
2004 - won production category in Sweden by 27 seconds from Bäcklund, 12th overall; 24th in Spain, 1st in production category but out of only 6 starters (Trivinho was second), 8 JWRC crews ahead of him
2005 - 10th in Sweden in Fabia WRC, 2 minutes behind Paasonen on same car
2006 - accident in Sweden from 5th place; 11th in Germany, 17,5 minutes behind Loeb, 5 minutes behind MacHale

Since then he drove no WRC event. That is already 7 years. Do You really want to suggest him as a works driver for Hyundai?

[pantealex]

In what segment you would place Fiat 500? A or B?

A it´s same car than Fiat Panda or Ford KA

[Josti]

Are You joking, right? Ekström did overall 8 WRC events, 3 in WRC car. 6 of those were Swedish rally. What he achieved?

1999 - ones in Sweden 30th and 11th in production category
2000 - ones in Sweden 21st and 5th in production category
2003 - ones in Sweden 23rd and 3rd in production category
2004 - won production category in Sweden by 27 seconds from Bäcklund, 12th overall; 24th in Spain, 1st in production category but out of only 6 starters (Trivinho was second), 8 JWRC crews ahead of him
2005 - 10th in Sweden in Fabia WRC, 2 minutes behind Paasonen on same car
2006 - accident in Sweden from 5th place; 11th in Germany, 17,5 minutes behind Loeb, 5 minutes behind MacHale

Since then he drove no WRC event. That is already 7 years. Do You really want to suggest him as a works driver for Hyundai?

Let alone if he'd be really interested in a career in rallying, he'd be rallying. The guy is just a circuit racer at heart.

This endless push for Swedish drivers is getting a bit absurd with examples like this.

[EightGear]

No Teme, not Panizzi. This is a guy who has been competing in the World Rally Championship at various levels the past few years. So could well be the second young driver that has been suggested will be at Hyundai.

Paddon? ;)

[Rallyper]

Are You joking, right? Ekström did overall 8 WRC events, 3 in WRC car. 6 of those were Swedish rally. What he achieved?

1999 - ones in Sweden 30th and 11th in production category
2000 - ones in Sweden 21st and 5th in production category
2003 - ones in Sweden 23rd and 3rd in production category
2004 - won production category in Sweden by 27 seconds from Bäcklund, 12th overall; 24th in Spain, 1st in production category but out of only 6 starters (Trivinho was second), 8 JWRC crews ahead of him
2005 - 10th in Sweden in Fabia WRC, 2 minutes behind Paasonen on same car
2006 - accident in Sweden from 5th place; 11th in Germany, 17,5 minutes behind Loeb, 5 minutes behind MacHale

Since then he drove no WRC event. That is already 7 years. Do You really want to suggest him as a works driver for Hyundai?

Well, more as a testdriver. But results doesn´t tell all. Look at his competitevness overall. But for sure you can always name several guys who should be in before him, never the less he could be worth the money as well...

Remember I said torch... and look what it gave... :D

[EightGear]

Let's take Valentino Rossi then, he did some rally's and is very competitive in a different motorsport series too. ;)

[stefanvv]

Let's take Valentino Rossi then, he did some rally's and is very competitive in a different motorsport series too. ;)

Not bad idea :D

[A.F.F.]

If I would be in charge of Hyundai WRC project, I'd choose Hirvonen for second car. His job would be development and drive secure points for the team. In the first seat I'd choose someone quick and young.

[Rallyper]

If I would be in charge of Hyundai WRC project, I'd choose Hirvonen for second car. His job would be development and drive secure points for the team. In the first seat I'd choose someone quick and young.

Forget Ekstrom. If I was Mikko I wouldn´t go in as second man behind Juho, if not payed much more.

[vkangas]

In my opinion an ideal driver pairing would be a combination of two drivers who have different timing for their expected career peaks. Having a 80M€/year budget rules automatically out the need to use very unproven drivers some here are suggesting. Why would you waste your money when it's obvious that you want to do well from the beginning (not saying they are meaning January 2014 as they seem to have more iterative approach to car development than VW but anyways pretty soon after that).

For 2014-2016 an ideal driver pairing (based on just driving) could be Hänninen and Neuville. After two years we can see is Juho going up or down and is Neuville potential to become number one. In a situation where Ogier, Latvala and Loeb are not available you have to get the best of the rest. Hänninen is likely very close to his career peak and can deliver straight away. Neuville is a rising star with already some proven record and is regularly showing that he may have what it takes to be a future champion. Hänninen has also quite long experience working with successful factory team which sure helps a new team. If you get some top (experienced) development drivers on board (like Panizzi, Mäkinen...) you have about the best combinantion (of drivers) you can get from the market at the moment. Engineers then are a different story... :)

For Hirvonen, Sordo & Petter I can't see very bright future as new stars like Neuville are getting as fast and have much more potential whereas they are unfortunately going downhill. Meeke is some kind of wildcard for me but in comparison with Hänninen he looses in my books. Same is with Östberg & Novikov vs. Neuville. If there would be three cars instead of two then there is of course more possibilities...

[Rallyper]

Talking about results - what results have Hanninen done in a WRC-car? Now he´s officially Hyundai developer, but in my opinion like vkangas say, there´s needed a faast young driver already in a steady position in WRC. Unless they can´t buy ot JML or Ogier, Neuville should be the man.
As vkangas says most of the current fast drivers have already peaked or haven´t show the consistency needed.
Remains to hire a coming man as second or third driver, and now we´re back on step one - who should that one be? Young estonian, finn, frenchman or swede?

[A.F.F.]

So far Hänninen hasn't done a single thing to convince me he has what it takes. I hope he'll prove me wrong but I don't understand why folks here keep him such a high value?

EDIT: Apparently Rallyper was thinking the very same at the very same moment :D

[Rallyper]

Hehe, we said same thing about Hanninen anknown of each other...

[Mirek]

So far Hänninen hasn't done a single thing to convince me he has what it takes. I hope he'll prove me wrong but I don't understand why folks here keep him such a high value?

Some of us have a kind of soft spot for him ;)

[vkangas]

So far Hänninen hasn't done a single thing to convince me he has what it takes. I hope he'll prove me wrong but I don't understand why folks here keep him such a high value?

I don't want to say Hänninen would be the messiah in WRC but I base my opinion on the lack of better alternatives. His recent results are in line that what a currently 4th best WRC driver needs to do. Remember that in Sweden and Monte Carlo Juho had very little testing with no engineering power available etc. Juho is also proven winner in IRC/ERC/SWRC. Ok, the level of competition is not so high but many times winners from lower series turn out to be winners sooner than those who do their learning in the high level.

Clearly obvious choises for Hyundai would be Loeb, Ogier and Latvala. After them? Mikko/Ostberg/Novikov? See the results...

[Rallyper]

No one of us knows in what purpose Hyundai are thought to use Juho. Of course as testdriver, but then? We don´t know if they plan to hire him as first driver when the competition starts up. So in the meantime this discission will bring many alternatives whom are to be examined by us - "the experts" - resulting in drivers from Loeb-level to national young upcomers without experience at all.
I´m sure we´ll mention some of the names that will be signed in the end - in the meantime let´s have an open mind. There are som many ways you can use a different driver for developing the car in best way.

That´s why I came up with Mattias for example, knowing that there are tenths of men with abilities to give advices to Hyundai team.

[Franky]

I think Hyundai will go for the three-four driver line up as VW has done.

[pantealex]

Hänninen him self has said: I must be faster than Neuville and Novikov in Rally Finland.

I think he must be faster than PG and Östberg also!

[TyPat107]

I don't mean to offend but there is always talk of PGA on this board, but I don't remembers him doing anything special at all. A 5th in wrc is the best I can find

[noel157]

I know of a driver who has 5 (maybe 6 or 7...) years of WRC experience, some development ability, is still young, has an excellent finishing record, hardly ever crashes, can work the media very well and promote himself and has scored lots of points and is currently without a WRC seat.

What more could Hyundai want from a driver?

[A.F.F.]

I know of a driver who has 5 (maybe 6 or 7...) years of WRC experience, some development ability, is still young, has an excellent finishing record, hardly ever crashes, can work the media very well and promote himself and has scored lots of points and is currently without a WRC seat.

What more could Hyundai want from a driver?

Loeb ?? :p

[denkimi]

I know of a driver who has 5 (maybe 6 or 7...) years of WRC experience, some development ability, is still young, has an excellent finishing record, hardly ever crashes, can work the media very well and promote himself and has scored lots of points and is currently without a WRC seat.

What more could Hyundai want from a driver?

Matthew Wilson?

[sollitt]

.... many times winners from lower series turn out to be winners sooner than those who do their learning in the high level. Bravo Bravo !!! Winning is a mentality. When you win at one thing (or category) you most likely have the capacity to win at anything. When you have won at many things, you will continue to win at whatever you attempt.
Losing is also a mentality, and one that is very difficult to change.

If the choice is between a winner in a lesser category or an occasional podium placer at WRC level, your better choice is the winner.
Let's not forget from where Citroen plucked both Loeb and Ogier.
Until another manufacturer understands this simple logic and is brave enough to do the same, nothing will change.

[tobbe3]

Next test driver...

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/07/15/bouffier-naechster-hyundai-tester/index.html%0A)

[Mirek]

Hard to say if it's true but it certainly has a logic given the ex-Peugeot names in Hyundai.

[pettersolberg29]

I heard this rumour after Ypres and thought it made sense - am delighted for Bryan if it's true!

[Andre Oliveira]

Bouffier still consider young talent?

8th July ;)

[Mirek]

The article speaks about test driver not about him driving 2014 season which might be two different things.

[noel157]

The article speaks about test driver not about him driving 2014 season which might be two different things.

Yep Mirek. No drivers have been announced, just test drivers. Drivers that testing the car(s) and Hyundai testing the drivers. We may see some changes come October/November time. Having said that it's a good pairing with Juho and Bryan.

[WUff1]

I´m happy for Bouffier, but I think only one of the two will get a seat for 2014.

[Mad cat jnr]

They need someone with experience of WRC's and the rounds. Neither Hanninen or Bouffier really have either of them really, they need a Sordo or someone alike.

[Mirek]

Now they need somebody with great understanding of machinery, tyres etc. Both Hänninen and Bouffier are proven testers. They are not hired to drive a WRC season for the team (at least not now) so their lesser experience with WRC events doesn't matter.

[Plan9]

This remind me of Peugeot in the early 2000s, they chose the best drivers available regardless of age (I am of the opinion that the current crop of young drivers are not appropriate for Hyundai at the moment). Ie Marcus, Gilles, Harri and Richard all got signed while they were in their 30s and brought a lot to the team on the technical side and were fast straight away. If Nadan takes this approach again with Hyundai I think his new team will make progress quickly.

[sollitt]

The difference is that, of the drivers you speak of, all except Rovanpera were not only the "best available" but were already at the top of their game. Pannizi was the undisputed master of tarmac and already on the payroll, Burns was the incumbent WRC champ, Gronholm had shown the pace that would inevitably bring a world title.
Rovanpera alone was akin to the drivers presently occupying WRC seats and was equally disappointing on the stages.
The reality is that, today, the drivers coming from the 'feeder classes' actually have a greater skill set and a greater chance of success than those also rans in the big seats.

[Andre Oliveira]

Are Matthew Wilson (Ford test driver) better than Juho Hänninen and Brian Bouffier?

[Barreis]

Are Matthew Wilson (Ford test driver) better than Juho Hänninen and Brian Bouffier?

Hahah, very good question. In terms of WRC results, he is...

[Andre Oliveira]

Hyundai done a serius bet on WRC, not like MINI (which have Kris Meeke like test driver (the new babyface of the forumers)). Do you remember Suzuki? Nicolas Bernardi and Sebastian Lindholm. I like Juho and Brian, and hope that it is the line-up to 2014. Let the drivers develop and learn the car :)

[Eli]

i hope hanninen gets his seat there next year, as for someone to join him, plenty to choose from: Neuville,Ostberg,Novikov,Hirvonen( of he's kicked out of citroen), Atkinson, and yes even Bouffier.

[tommeke_B]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002564_698306896849377_2064315909_n.jpg Do I see Reiger? The suspension mounting looks much more straight upwards than on the cars of competitors.

[WUff1]

i hope hanninen gets his seat there next year, as for someone to join him, plenty to choose from: Neuville,Ostberg,Novikov,Hirvonen( of he's kicked out of citroen), Atkinson, and yes even Bouffier.

Hyundai obviously prefers Bouffier at the Moment - Atkinson is only there for supporting Hänninen and Bouffier.

[ProRally]

Hyundai obviously prefers Bouffier at the Moment - Atkinson is only there for supporting Hänninen and Bouffier.

Yes, but Hyundai is HUGE in Australia and for sure marketing guys there have some push in Korea and they can push the motorsport team....
Time will tell...

[mohit]

hyundai is much bigger in INDIA so they should go for an Indian driver ......

What say.....

hyundai should go for petter he is fast

thanks

[makinen_fan]

I was thinking the same, why not Petter? He has lots of experience with both DS3 and Fiesta, fast driver and potential to keep him for 2014. But if I remember correctly, there were rumours from Subaru era that he was getting involved too much in car development, which have not gone too well at the end... so probably not very good as a development driver?

[GigiGalliNo1]

I think to sell the WRC you need a face.. Atkinson would do well with pushing the Brand and the Sport for the Team and sell even More cars in Australia.

Citroen Norway did very well when Petter started driving Citroen with people buying!

The sport needs to be pushed by known drivers and not necessarily winning drivers but saying that the cars need to win!

[skarderud]

I was thinking the same, why not Petter? He has lots of experience with both DS3 and Fiesta, fast driver and potential to keep him for 2014. But if I remember correctly, there were rumours from Subaru era that he was getting involved too much in car development, which have not gone too well at the end... so probably not very good as a development driver?


Subaru/prodrive didn't listen to the drivers, they belived in the computers instead. So when the drivers said that the car was undrivable, or just wanted to make som changes the team refused it and said: no, our computers says that the car is faster this way. Remember sweden in 2005 or 06? High "ass" on the car, lowered front, behavior like a snake on straights and atleast Petter parked the car on day 2. Total undrivable.

We need guys like Petter in the wrc, maybe a 4 cars team for hyundai?

[makinen_fan]

Subaru/prodrive didn't listen to the drivers, they belived in the computers instead. So when the drivers said that the car was undrivable, or just wanted to make som changes the team refused it and said: no, our computers says that the car is faster this way. Remember sweden in 2005 or 06? High "ass" on the car, lowered front, behavior like a snake on straights and atleast Petter parked the car on day 2. Total undrivable.

We need guys like Petter in the wrc, maybe a 4 cars team for hyundai?

I remember it wrong then. I hope he can come back, and will make a decent choice of driver to Hyundai. After the recent report from Autosport that he is looking to come back, probably he has a chance with them as well? Time will tell

[Mirek]

I think that now at the start Petter could be a good choice. The best days of him as a driver are gone but he still keeps the ability to be followed by millions all around the world. In the end any sporting activities of car makers are nothing but a marketing tool.

[mohit]

petter deserves a wrc seat

he is good at development of car,s now he has developed his RX car well enough though a bit UN-reliable at present but this is his first year in RX.

in RX he has lost 4 time because of mechanical failures and people hitting him but and he has been fastest of all every time.

so he deserves a seat and a new team will benefit a lot from his ability to attract people from all over the world.

so lets see hope people at hyundai agree with this

[sollitt]

I think that now at the start Petter could be a good choice. The best days of him as a driver are gone but he still keeps the ability to be followed by millions all around the world. In the end any sporting activities of car makers are nothing but a marketing tool.Petter's days are over. Let's remember him for what he was ... fast, spectacular, a champion and enormously good fun.
There are now younger, faster and equally gifted people to fill these spots. Let's move forward.

[Rallyper]

Petter says in swedish newspaper he has some "unfinished business in WRC"....

http://www.eurosport.se/wrc/solberg-vill-tillbaka-till-wrc-har-ouppklarade-affarer_sto3858947/story.shtml

[Rallyper]

Petter says on Eurosport swedish internet edition, he has some "unfinished business in WRC"....

Solberg vill tillbaka till WRC: Har ouppklarade affärer - WRC - Eurosport (http://www.eurosport.se/wrc/solberg-vill-tillbaka-till-wrc-har-ouppklarade-affarer_sto3858947/story.shtml)

[andyone]

Petter is fast but not a potential winner against the new drivers. Ostberg,neuville can beat him in a straight fight.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[mohit]

petter is faster and he just needed a break from wrc for a bit and that break seems to be over now or soon

so guess he will get a wrc seat at citoren, i20 ? he can do it he just has to get his act together

i20 would suit him let see

[Mintexmemory]

Petter is fast but not a potential winner against the new drivers. Ostberg,neuville can beat him in a straight fight.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

Facts please, not opinions! Yes,Ostberg has more recently won a WRC round but where is the evidence that in equal machinery MO or TN would beat Petter over a season when he's not attempting to beat Loeb, or now Ogier? (I happen to think they would but that is based on nothing more than personal reponse to their performances this year)
We will keep seeing the Petter debate resurfacing but it has to be remembered it is a very long time since he won a WRC round and he is reaching that point where skill can't compensate for failing reflexes :(

[noel157]

Rallycross has never been a good indication of how a driver would compete on a rally in my very humble opinion.
As I've said before I think Petter's WRC days are over, unless he brings a large cheque book to the table. Yes, Hollywood is a great personality and a very nice guy but I'm afraid that's it.

[Rallyper]

I think Petter showed speed last year, for example in Greece, until PS, and wouldn´t it because he wanted so much to beat Mr Loeb he´d been on podium for several more times in 2012.

Yes, I do believe he has much more to give to the WRC. Not winning all the time but also as a profile.

[pettersolberg29]

Rallycross has never been a good indication of how a driver would compete on a rally in my very humble opinion.
As I've said before I think Petter's WRC days are over, unless he brings a large cheque book to the table. Yes, Hollywood is a great personality and a very nice guy but I'm afraid that's it.

I think it depends what you want. In my mind he's a much better driver than Ostberg and Novikov even now, and equal to Sordo, Neuville and Mikko, so he's still a solid choice. No, he's not going to win the title, or probably not even win a race, but he'll compete for a podium on every round and for a team like Hyundai that would be excellent. And that doesn't mention the press/fan interest too.

[Hartusvuori]

NORF Yle rallyradio commentator, former driver Kristian Sohlberg said in an Yle article that apparently Hyundai have reserved several roads in Finland for a shoot out later in August. Names mentioned in the article were Hänninen, PGA, Meeke and Nikara. Buzz is on.

[EightGear]

Names keep popping up, earlier there were talks about Paddon, Abbring, Tidemand and some more.


Exciting times ahead. :)

[WUff1]

After NORF it is obviously that PGA isn´t the fastest driver anymore - Meeke would deserve it much more.

[TyPat107]

After NORF it is obviously that PGA isn´t the fastest driver anymore - Meeke would deserve it much more.

I am confused, I have been following rally since 2000, when was PGA ever fastest? Not being a jerk I just don't ever recall him setting the world on fire like Loeb or ogier and would honestly appreciate someone's explanation.

[Sulland]

Rallycross has never been a good indication of how a driver would compete on a rally in my very humble opinion.
As I've said before I think Petter's WRC days are over, unless he brings a large cheque book to the table. Yes, Hollywood is a great personality and a very nice guy but I'm afraid that's it.

Maybe, but I think Matton has beaten himself a few times during the season for not offering him a full season!

[Plan9]

PG impressed me with his driving in Super1600 and getting something out of the sx4 which Toni G did not manage. He was also gettig alot of speed out of the Proton in IRC and Aprc which is no mean feat.I think he is popular in the same way Jari-Matti is; very exciting to watch stage side and does set fast times but lik JML he is not consistent.

[Doon]

A good choice for them would be Meeke and Hirvonen.

[tommeke_B]

At the current situation I think this must be their dream team: Neuville and Hänninen + Paddon/Abbring.

[rage82]

At the current situation I think this must be their dream team: Neuville and Hänninen + Paddon/Abbring.

Agree with that dream team but also think that they should at least try with Nikkara. Obviously is very fast in his native Finland but also was very impressive in his debut with WRC car in Spain.

[EightGear]

According to an interview with Alain Penasse they will only field 2 cars next year if I remember correctly. Would be a shame, hopefully they will change their mind and add a 3rd car.

[seb_sh]

I'd like to see Meeke and Neuville as the main drivers. Maybe a 3rd car for the current test drivers on some events.

[WUff1]

Please no Novikov! According to motorline.cc he´s interested in a Hyundai-Cockpit, also Ostberg.

[Rallyper]

I am confused, I have been following rally since 2000, when was PGA ever fastest? Not being a jerk I just don't ever recall him setting the world on fire like Loeb or ogier and would honestly appreciate someone's explanation.

So how many drivers sets world on fire besides Loeb and Ogier speedvise? Not many I suppose.

However PGA has been linked to Hyundai according to swedish newspapers after NORF. Probably as testdriver at first but he and Juho would be great at a start next year...

[noel157]

So, only 3 drivers not linked to Hyundai.............. :)

[stefanvv]

So, only 3 drivers not linked to Hyundai.............. :)

Let me guess - VW team

[noel157]

Cigar for you Stefan... :)

[stefanvv]

Cigar for you Stefan... :)

That will be perfect with the beers I will have from dimviii after France :)

[Eli]

will be interesting to see the driver's chair-game for next year, a part from VW which the only different thing for them is that they will have the number 1 & 2 cars...

[Barreis]

If this car will finish in top 4 on some rallies next season, it will be good result...

[EightGear]

If this car will finish in top 4 on some rallies next season, it will be good result...

Explain.

[Barreis]

They started to test for real 6 months before new season. We'll see the results...

[dimviii]

http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/519787IMG1919.jpghttp://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/521753IMG1925.jpghttp://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/496300IMG1929.jpghttp://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/866799IMG1930.jpg

[Doon]

It just doesn't look right! Don't know why, but something looks wrong about it!

[makinen_fan]

To me, the rear track seems a bit narrow compared to the body in the 2nd photo

[MJW]

It just doesn't look right! Don't know why, but something looks wrong about it!

Totally agree, if I had a Citroen or Ford seat now I dont think I would be queing up to go there, unless of course the money was huge. I may be wrong but I really can not see this compete with VW, I think it will be slowest car of the WRC in 2014.

[tommeke_B]

Totally agree, if I had a Citroen or Ford seat now I dont think I would be queing up to go there, unless of course the money was huge. I may be wrong but I really can not see this compete with VW, I think it will be slowest car of the WRC in 2014.

The slowest in 2014, the fastest in 2015. :)

But I agree, completely! The car looks ugly so it MUST be slow and it MUST be bad! :rolleyes:

[MartijnS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ooWT3KUZ4s

[noel157]

Not a bad sound. Juho driving or one of the other test team?

Regarding the still images, most of them look a bit photochopped or at least enhanced somehow. Car seemed too clean etc.

[MJW]

The slowest in 2014, the fastest in 2015. :)

But I agree, completely! The car looks ugly so it MUST be slow and it MUST be bad! :rolleyes:
Perhaps I am making too much of a connection between Michel Nanadan and the Suzuki SX4 and Michel Nandan and the Hyundai i20. In truth we dont know how fast or slow it is based on looks, but when you consider how advanced VW were even in 2011, e.g they had FX Demaision there since just after Monte 2011, they were recruiting, purchasing service trucks etc, plus they had that year in the Skoda's to train mechanics, contrast this with the Hyundai approach. I think that it will take to 2015 before Hyundai is a contender, hence my comment about probable Ford or Citroen being a better option for a driver in 2014.

[tommeke_B]

Less is known, indeed... And yes, they won't fight for victories next year, in my opinion. But like I said before, it's not because something is unknown, that it's not there or it doesn't happen... :)

[Barreis]

Next year i20 will be like sx4 in 2008...

[Allyc85]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ooWT3KUZ4s

1.26 seconds per km off the pace for sure :p

[MJW]

Perhaps I am making too much of a connection between Michel Nanadan and the Suzuki SX4 and Michel Nandan and the Hyundai i20. In truth we dont know how fast or slow it is based on looks, but when you consider how advanced VW were even in 2011, e.g they had FX Demaision there since just after Monte 2011, they were recruiting, purchasing service trucks etc, plus they had that year in the Skoda's to train mechanics, contrast this with the Hyundai approach. I think that it will take to 2015 before Hyundai is a contender, hence my comment about probable Ford or Citroen being a better option for a driver in 2014.
When I said FX was there just after Monte, remeber it was only Portugal 2011 when VW officially announce they were coming into WRC, by then a lot of key people had signed contracts ;-)

[noel157]

1.26 seconds per km off the pace for sure :p

Don't be ridiculous. Don't know where you dreamt up that figure.

More like 1.275 / km.......... :)

[vkangas]

Next year i20 will be like sx4 in 2008...
Wrong. The project is a very healthy one.

[AMSS]

Any tech specs? I still haven`t for instance seen or heard whose suspension(dampers) they`re using, from the looks of it they will be on Michelins next year.

[Mirek]

Any tech specs? I still haven`t for instance seen or heard whose suspension(dampers) they`re using, from the looks of it they will be on Michelins next year.

This photo which was posted earlier in this thread shows Reigers:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1002564_698306896849377_2064315909_n.jpg

[OldF]

A longer video from our forum friend jbmarcus21.

BILLIOT Jérémie ‏@planetemarcus (https://twitter.com/planetemarcus) 6m (https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/367343014823612416) #WRC (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23WRC&src=hash) My personal [VIDEO] about Hyundai Motorsport testing this week i20Wrc in tarmac with Bryan Bouffier http://bit.ly/1eHmsTd (http://t.co/OlLDPMsWu5) (please RT)

[Doon]

I stand by my earlier 'something doesn't look right' comment!

The front suspension looks to have damping problems. As the corner starts to tightens, the front end corner on-load is rebounding. Or is this the bumps in the road? I'd never claim to be an expert, but it seems pretty obvious to me. The wheel is right up into the wheel arch, as it seems as if the car is struggling to turn-in.

The Hyundai engineers are far brighter than me, so I have faith that this is 'OK' or if not it will be sorted.

[Doon]

Watching again, it reminds me of a gravel spec car driving on tarmac. What do we all think? Fastest time on SS1 of Monte Carlo like the VW? Or one scratch time (correct me if i'm wrong?) like the SX4 all season?

[TheFlyingTuga]

I thin it's a bit to early to comment on this! For months untill January, so something will probably be improved in the car! I remeber when the first Polo video came out the car doesn't look fast as well! It's testing, their will end up find something to make it better! Will se in 2014

[tommeke_B]

Indeed, there's still plenty of time. And even then, the "real work" starts only in 2015 with the new car completely developed by themselves... :) VW did their learning year with Fabia S2000, Hyundai is doing it with another WRC.

[navtheace]

Indeed, there's still plenty of time. And even then, the "real work" starts only in 2015 with the new car completely developed by themselves... :) VW did their learning year with Fabia S2000, Hyundai is doing it with another WRC.

I thought the current Hyundai WRC that is being tested is completely developed by themselves also yes? Or no?

[makinen_fan]

Another video from the test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0uc7zB1684&feature=em-uploademail

[tommeke_B]

I thought the current Hyundai WRC that is being tested is completely developed by themselves also yes? Or no?

Yes, of course. But VW also did further development on the Fabia S2000 to gain experience. From what I heard, there were differences between the "VW Fabia" an the Skoda Fabia... The experience they gain from developing this car can help them for the next one. :)

[Mirek]

I thought the current Hyundai WRC that is being tested is completely developed by themselves also yes? Or no?

In my opinion "themselves" meant in Germany without any links to previous Korean pre-development.

[jonlint]

Perhaps I am making too much of a connection between Michel Nanadan and the Suzuki SX4 and Michel Nandan and the Hyundai i20. In truth we dont know how fast or slow it is based on looks, but when you consider how advanced VW were even in 2011, e.g they had FX Demaision there since just after Monte 2011, they were recruiting, purchasing service trucks etc, plus they had that year in the Skoda's to train mechanics, contrast this with the Hyundai approach. I think that it will take to 2015 before Hyundai is a contender, hence my comment about probable Ford or Citroen being a better option for a driver in 2014.

I would not underestimate Michel Nanadan or Hyundai. The Suzuki fiasco was another story. I heard that the SX4 had actually more electronic tricks that any WRC car at the time and that Michel Nanadan's SX4 design on paper was a potential winner, but that the electronics needed time to tweek which he did not get, there were budget issues, Suzuki and Monster intervened too much instead of letting him do his thing and the engines from Suzuki (Suzuki developed them) had issues. Now electronics are not as important. From what I see from Hyundai, they clearly are putting Michel Nanadan in the lead and throwing the resources at him. Hyundai will struggle at first probably, but expect them to come up the curve fast. Plus, they can homologate a new car in 2015, which the other can't. I would put my money on Hyundai for 2015, not VW!

[Mintexmemory]

I would not underestimate Michel Nanadan or Hyundai. The Suzuki fiasco was another story. I heard that the SX4 had actually more electronic tricks that any WRC car at the time and that Michel Nanadan's SX4 design on paper was a potential winner, but that the electronics needed time to tweek which he did not get, there were budget issues, Suzuki and Monster intervened too much instead of letting him do his thing and the engines from Suzuki (Suzuki developed them) had issues. Now electronics are not as important. From what I see from Hyundai, they clearly are putting Michel Nanadan in the lead and throwing the resources at him. Hyundai will struggle at first probably, but expect them to come up the curve fast. Plus, they can homologate a new car in 2015, which the other can't. I would put my money on Hyundai for 2015, not VW!

Except I would expect Ogier to be still with VW in 2015 as a double WC . The Polo will have had 2 seasons of specific event optimisation. That's going to be a tough nut for any competitor to crack

[Mirek]

Except I would expect Ogier to be still with VW in 2015 as a double WC . The Polo will have had 2 seasons of specific event optimisation. That's going to be a tough nut for any competitor to crack

How long time a go we considered Citroën unstoppable? It changed fast, didn't it?