Hyundai i20 WRC

[Rallyper]

One Yaris doesn´t make a WRC.

But with right marketing thinking they´d do the whole spectra like M-sport (Ford) have done...

[Arwel Davies]

With all the speculation that is going on regarding the project, could this be what exactly Hyundai wanted? Look at the attention they are getting from this "video" that was leaked conveniently around the same time as the VW launch. I think they know exactly what their doing and are playing a very clever game. ;)

[PLuto]

Also? Did Toyota officially confirm anything? (Edit: Except for the employee advert)

Huyndai is a different thing.

Yoshiaki Kinosh.ita confimed (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14053) in this July, that Toyota is working for potential return into WRC...

P.S. Sorry for using point in the middle of Yoshiaki's surname, but this forum take part of his name as bad word :)

[stefanvv]

Weren't they presenting i20 the same time when 208 was also presented? :confused:

[TheFlyingTuga]

Weren't they presenting i20 the same time when 208 was also presented? :confused:

I don't think that was the same time, but in the same show! At least we saw the Hyundai having a run... or at least it what it seems! Maybe the Pug, because it was nothing said yet too, it's a fake too :P

[vkangas]

Lots of talk everywhere about Hyundai's WRC project everywhere after that one video accident... In my opinion everything looks to go just as planned. Ok, maybe Hyundai did their official announcement little bit early but everything is definately looking so that we are going to see a proper project. Hyundai is for example recruiting key background personnel to get WRC operations going in Germany (As Mirek already mentioned).

[SunDanceRanch]

Hyundai i20 WRC, very first drive! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0byQadWKyY)

Did you seen this one from Hyundai?
Ad when should they start does someone know?
Maybe Sweden or later?
And who is going to drive in them?

[SubaruNorway]

Hyundai i20 WRC, very first drive! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0byQadWKyY)

Did you seen this one from Hyundai?
Ad when should they start does someone know?
Maybe Sweden or later?
And who is going to drive in them?

We saw it, but wish we didn't...

[Sami]

:eek: Hope it's not true. I was pleased when they said they will develop the car by themselves (not english preparator) but now this driver choice.... Maybe only Sousa for Lotus was worse choice :dozey:

I got your point in Sousa, but about Ketomaa you should take a closer look.

Someone who leads a wrc-rally overall after day one is a talented driver. I'm not saying Ketomaa will win WRC ever, but comparing to Sousa is unjustified. Sousa wouldn't win a stage.

That said, I respect Sousa too, not the fastest but faster than most of the forumers. Too bad the Lotus project and the whole gt-r didn't work out..

[PLuto]

GT-R class was good idea killed by FIA technical commission during making technical regulations...

[A FONDO]

"Leading after milimeter one" is just exploiting the facts. We all saw his abilities this year. Look what Prokop, Novikov, Tanak did with the same tyres and Autotek car.

Anyway, here we are talking about developing a new car with an unexperienced team. Even the biggest rising talent is inappropriate for such task. Experience matters here, experience with true factory team, top car and top engineers.

[Sami]

GT-R class was good idea killed by FIA technical commission during making technical regulations...

They were afraid of gt-r's challenging wrc's on dry tarmac.

[Sami]

"Leading after milimeter one" is just exploiting the facts. We all saw his abilities this year. Look what Prokop, Novikov, Tanak did with the same tyres and Autotek car.

Anyway, here we are talking about developing a new car with an unexperienced team. Even the biggest rising talent is inappropriate for such task. Experience matters here, experience with true factory team, top car and top engineers.

I'm not saying Ketomaa wasn't a surprise name for me (and actually don't believe it just yet), but comparing him to Sousa was just a bit too much.

Ketomaa is insanely talented, and I just want to point that out. 42 stage wins in SWRC 2010 is another proof of that. Not a rising star anymore, though.

This year was a pure farce with D-Mack. In Sweden when I went to his pit in shakedown and saw his D-Mack's missing big 2cm x 2cm bits of rubber it was clear that he shouldn't even start the rally. Luckily the tyres weren't so bad in other circumstances and got dramatically better throughout the year.

[Barreis]

What's this?
WRC, Hyundai potrebbe partecipare agli ultimi appuntamenti del 2013 | Rally.it (http://www.rally.it/wrc-hyundai-potrebbe-partecipare-agli-ultimi-appuntamenti-del-2013/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wrc-hyundai-potrebbe-partecipare-agli-ultimi-appuntamenti-del-2013#)

[PLuto]

What's this?
WRC, Hyundai potrebbe partecipare agli ultimi appuntamenti del 2013 | Rally.it (http://www.rally.it/wrc-hyundai-potrebbe-partecipare-agli-ultimi-appuntamenti-del-2013/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=wrc-hyundai-potrebbe-partecipare-agli-ultimi-appuntamenti-del-2013#)

Nothing new, usual copy&paste&translate from other articles on internet...

[misiuwolf]

There were some additional informations during this week:

Noch nichts Neues von Hyundai*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/12/11/noch-nichts-neues-von-hyundai/index.html)

Wait some more days, I think then we got some more news about the test in Germany as well.

[AMSS]

"Leading after milimeter one" is just exploiting the facts. We all saw his abilities this year. Look what Prokop, Novikov, Tanak did with the same tyres and Autotek car.

Anyway, here we are talking about developing a new car with an unexperienced team. Even the biggest rising talent is inappropriate for such task. Experience matters here, experience with true factory team, top car and top engineers.

Just one small mistake there, both Tanak and Novikov were both in M-sport cars NOT autotek! Big difference.
And I`m not denying what you said is true though!

[skarderud]

They were afraid of gt-r's challenging wrc's on dry tarmac.

is that bad? :) thats just cool of that should happen! But hardly any gentleman driver is close to loeb or sordo anyway.

[Mirek]

GT-R class was good idea killed by FIA technical commission during making technical regulations...

Not only technical regulation. I guess creating a competitive ground, i.e. setting a well recognized GT cup under existing championships would be enough.

[Mikkaki]

PG Andersson have contact with the Hyundai team he says today in the swedish newspaper Värmlands Folkblad P-G kan få köra i Asien igen (http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/pg-kan-fa-kora-i-asien-igen-%25E2%2580%2593-forsoker-knyta-kontakter-med-hyundai)

[J.Lindstroem]

PG Andersson have contact with the Hyundai team he says today in the swedish newspaper Värmlands Folkblad P-G kan få köra i Asien igen (http://www.vf.se/sport/bilsport/pg-kan-fa-kora-i-asien-igen-%25E2%2580%2593-forsoker-knyta-kontakter-med-hyundai)

For the people who cant read Swedish we have to say it is not big at all. PG is saying that he is trying to make them interested in him, nothing more. Other than that the article takes up Protons future plans that are not impressive at all. (Only Asia & Pasific Championship and just maybe S2000). Doesn't look to bright for PG if thats what he's got going!

[Seppala]

btw. what happened to Daniel Carlsson? Last thing I heard was that he was caught driving drunk.

[tommeke_B]

btw. what happened to Daniel Carlsson? Last thing I heard was that he was caught driving drunk.
That would be a big joke! Remembering his "WRADD"-campaign (world rally against drunk driving) some years ago...

[Rallyper]

That would be a big joke! Remembering his "WRADD"-campaign (world rally against drunk driving) some years ago...

Unfortenatly it´s true. He really was caught. And that ended his career for sure...

[RS]

Other than that the article takes up Protons future plans that are not impressive at all. (Only Asia & Pasific Championship and just maybe S2000). Doesn't look to bright for PG if thats what he's got going!

I thought Proton were dead or are MEM trying to keep it going with private funding?

[Cacatua]

Don't know if this has been posted here before. In newspaper As Pipo says several things about Hyundai's project (http://motor.as.com/motor/2012/12/12/mas_motor/1355271377_311658.html), according to him Hyundai has revealed that they will invest 60-70m€/yr in the project, more than Citroen (50m&#8364 ;) but less than VW (around 100m&#8364 ;) . They've already bought a building in Offenbach and the chief engineer from 2013 will be Michel Nandan, they have to wait for Nandan's contract expiration with the FFSA which is at the end of the present year.

[AP-Racing]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/167479_10151189964126918_1102163666_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/563776_10151189963126918_84737726_n.jpg

[Georgi]

Unfortenatly it´s true. He really was caught. And that ended his career for sure...

Really ? That's sad.
Is he rally nowadays ?

[A.F.F.]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/167479_10151189964126918_1102163666_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/563776_10151189963126918_84737726_n.jpg

These pics tell much more than that cr***y video previously :up:

[dimviii]

there is a video from the white i20.Car is definetely at Germany
Hyundai i30 und i20 WRC: Mit weniger Türen zu mehr Erfolg (http://www.blick.ch/auto/news_n_trends/mit-weniger-tueren-zu-mehr-erfolg-id2140760.html)

[EightGear]

there is a video from the white i20.Car is definetely at Germany
Hyundai i30 und i20 WRC: Mit weniger Türen zu mehr Erfolg (http://www.blick.ch/auto/news_n_trends/mit-weniger-tueren-zu-mehr-erfolg-id2140760.html)

BF Goodrich tyres?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

It's strange that the i20 appears to be testing in conditions suited to Monte Carlo if Hyundai have no intention of competing there. Yes, sooner or later, you have to test for the Monte, but the conditions are so unique that most of the data you get from testing there is only really going to be useful for Monte Carlo. It makes much more sense to me to concentrate on gravel and dry tarmac to get the fundamental elements of the car right, and only test for Monte Carlo when you actually intend on competing in Monte Carlo.

But for all I know, they're testing in Siberia.

[Mirek]

If there is still a doubt, this new video proves that the one we saw last week was fake. For example, compare the dashboards.

No fake in my opinion. The car presented in first photos was different to this one. Hence the difference. I would call this one the first real WRC prototype.


Is my eyes playing tricks with me, or does the car looks to be fwd when they do the start at 0:20? Later in the video it looks 4wd when drifting.


Yea it does look FWD off of the line! Not sure what they are trying to achieve by sliding around in circles, what are they going to learn from that? Still not convinced by it all!

Gravel tyres on wet and cold asphalt combined with natural lack of traction on front axle. That's it in my opinion.


It's strange that the i20 appears to be testing in conditions suited to Monte Carlo if Hyundai have no intention of competing there. Yes, sooner or later, you have to test for the Monte, but the conditions are so unique that most of the data you get from testing there is only really going to be useful for Monte Carlo. It makes much more sense to me to concentrate on gravel and dry tarmac to get the fundamental elements of the car right, and only test for Monte Carlo when you actually intend on competing in Monte Carlo. But for all I know, they're testing in Siberia.

Monte Carlo with gravel tyres? Come on, it's just first testing. Fiesta S2000, WRC and Mini WRC appeared on asphalt with gravel tyres in many initial testing videos. Just browse through history. First You need to know everything is working before You set to real stages. That's why first all real cars are driven over own factory testing grounds. Sure this session was no preparation for any real event. And why is there wet snow? Because it is in all central Europe. If You think there is this kind of weather in Siberia now, don't go there or You'll die soon :)

I think You guys try to find something which is not present ;)

[TyPat107]

Interesting, it looks like it has door bars similar to the mini wrc from the quick shot with the door open.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Now on Autosport:

Hyundai World Rally Car makes European test debut - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104846)

I'm guessing that most of the development that has been done to date has been done behind closed doors in South Korea. There probably hasn't been a lot of media attention, because motorsport is not prolific in the country, and so we didn't get a lot of material.

[COD]

I can understand some sceptism is order until things are revealed officially. But still this bashing of the project here seems a bit unjustified.
I thought all rallyfans would be happy to see a big manufacturer interested in entering the WRC

[GigiGalliNo1]

Hankook Tyres

Easy

That is what Tyres they tested with at the ADAC centre in Germany

[dimviii]

more new photos
GALERIEN*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/galerien/yag/582/ItemList/list/hyundai-i20-wrc-show/bilder-alexander-wissgott-2)

[skarderud]

Interesting story at wrc.com, some spokesman explained the project. Teamchief going to be presented one of the days.

[danon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bCZSPEKZH_E

[Allyc85]

Autosport were one of the publications at the test. Here is the article from the Autosport+ section...

By David Evans

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1355678261.jpg
So it does exist. It really does. It moves, pops, bangs and skids. And it looks like a rally car. Admittedly, a rally car on small wheels, but a rally car – and possibly even a World Rally Car. Hyundai has arrived. Again.
In October, chairman Chung's son stood up and committed South Korea's biggest carmaker to a World Rally Championship return. Since then, however, in the following two months, there's been absolute silence. Nothing. Nada. So quiet in fact, that the folk over the border in Pyongyang have looked positive chatty by comparison.
And then this: would I like to come to Frankfurt for a ride in the car?
Of course I would.
Even as I boarded the plane, I still had no real idea of what was coming, what was waiting, or what I'd be told.
All would be revealed about half an hour outside the city. In the snow. We were at one of ADAC's driving centres, essentially a German equivalent of MIRA or Millbrook. After an introduction, there was movement outside. And there it was… moving.


Hyundai last competed in the WRC in 2003 © LAT



The i20 WRC. Hyundai's first World Rally Car since the Accent WRC made a quarrelsome exit from the sport nine years ago.
The introduction to the day had come from Hyundai Motor Europe's communications guru Stefan Henrich. One of the things he was keen to underline is the lack of contact with drivers. In fact, the lack of significant contact with anybody involved in the sport.


http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1355678189.jpg

So, today, our driver would be a Hyundai test driver from the plant in Korea. He was, in Stefan's unflinchingly honest words, a nameless fellow from a pool of around 50 potential testers.
Helmeted up, I met the man with no name. A balaclava covering everything but his eyes only added to the sense of mystery. Nameless he might have been, voiceless he was not.
"You have good time!" he shouted, with both thumbs in the air.
Despite the white nomex covering most of his face, his eyes shone. He was going to have a good time. He was living the dream. In fairness, I half expected to wake up myself any moment now.
We'd been warned not to try and take any pictures of the interior of the car, which made me all the more intrigued as to what was going on in there. Climbing into the i20 WRC was much the same as most other World Rally Cars. There was nothing out of the ordinary, except for the fact that it needs to slim down – there are more electronic displays than current WRC vogue.
Certainly, the inside looked the part. My only gripe, in fact, is that from the width of the seat I was trying to squeeze into, Koreans don't share my passion for pies.
The belts were done, although they were almost entirely superfluous… having got into the seat it would have taken some pretty significant g-forces to get me out.
And anyway, with the snow still lying on this miserable and deeply chilly December morning, there wouldn't be much in the way of face-shaping gravitational pull.


http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1355678338.jpg Hyundai ran the i20 WRC on a makeshift test track
















Very quickly it became clear that what I was sitting in was a test car and nothing more. The was no viscous acceleration, nothing like the pin-point turn-in that fully loaded differentials would have offered and the brakes really weren't too handy either.

I was confused. What was the point of this exercise?
Even more confusing, lovely bloke as I'm sure my nameless friend was, he really wasn't showing the car in the best light at all. Admittedly, we were racing through a stage of traffic cones, but half of the time I'm really not sure he had any idea where we were going and the other half of the time I'm certain he didn't know what gear we were in. Furthermore, on at least one occasion, he pulled us from second to third gear instead of getting the handbrake.
But the enthusiasm was massive.
When I got out of the car, I was nonplussed and genuinely wondering what on earth was going on.
Getting out of the car, it began to make sense. Everything began to make sense.
Assembled alongside the makeshift service area, a group of Koreans looked on proudly as their car slipped its way around the stage. Every time it came back, they cleaned it rigorously and listened intently to what anybody said about the car.
When the one with no name spun, he was treated like an all-conquering hero when he stepped unscathed from the machine. The pride in their work was immense.

http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1355678406.jpg


I got it. This really, really was the start of something.
This was it. This was the i20 WRC in its rawest form.
Hyundai hadn't brought me to Germany to give me an engineering story that would rock the WRC to its very core, I was here to see exactly this enthusiasm. And the associated intent.
The car, quite simply, didn't matter. My friend could have given me a run down the road in a wheelbarrow, as far as I was concerned. I now understood.

Hyundai's commitment to next year's World Rally Championship is absolute.
There will be those quick to scoff at the company's attempts at going from zero to a full WRC programme in 12 months, but that's absolutely the intention.
Looking at the most recent projects, Prodrive spent pretty much a year developing a generic car before spending a similar amount of time bolting that technology into a Mini Countryman. Volkswagen is just ending a development programme that has, realistically, gone on for almost the same amount of time with the Polo R WRC.

So, can Hyundai halve the development time? Why not? A few years ago, nobody would have thought it possible for a single car plant to churn our 1.6 million motors a year, yet the company's Ulsan facility does. Making a handful of more bespoke Hyundai's shouldn't be a problem from its new facility in Frankfurt.
Budget-wise, you do the maths. Hyundai sells more than four million cars a year; money shouldn't be a problem.
It's not going to be easy though. Hyundai is talking about installing a team principal in January, with the rest of the team in place soon after. For the car to stand any chance in 2014, it will need to be testing soon into the second half of the season and that's a very big ask.

Despite ranking higher than Ford in terms of vehicles produced, plenty of folk still have little clue about Hyundai; doubtless plenty think it's just the company that sponsors the World Cup.
And that's why Hyundai's coming to the World Rally Championship: to wake the world up to what it's got to offer.
The Korean-built i20 WRC has got the firm's world championship effort to the startline. But from the ground up, there's a whole new race waiting to be run. And possibly even won.

Under the bonnet of Hyundai's WRC return - AUTOSPORT+ (http://plus.autosport.com/premium/feature/5042/under-the-bonnet-of-hyundai-wrc-return/)

[whosyo]

I still don't understand why they've not been testing the car with proper professional driver.
The interest about motorsports is absolutely miserable in my country.
It's been a long time since motorsport was degraded to a celebrities' expensive hobby in here, so there isn't any driver who can give the team some useful feedback.

[Mirek]

In my opinion the answer is simple - because it's no real car and therefore there's no feedback needed. The team doesn't even have a boss in the moment so what would be any kind of feedback from "some car" be good for?

[COD]

A good article saying exactly what it is. They have taken a bit of a different approach than the other, showing basically a showcar. Now starts the real development and with the money they have for the project, if the mney of wisely spent it can become a very very good car.

[EightGear]

It seems like the glasses are always half-empty here on the forums lately...

[Rallyper]

Back to topic, please...

[A.F.F.]

The Close Encounters of The Third Factoryteam.

[Franky]

Where's Brother John, when you need him ...

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Against cars that have had years in development? Not likely. Perhaps after a season or two of development in their own right, but by then, I think Solberg will be a spent force.

Honestly, I don't get the love for Petter. Sure, he's popular and he's had some success at the highest level, but his skills are in decline. And while he might be cursed with ageing cars, it's obvious he's nowhere near his best. Worse for Solberg is the way he was in a works team in 2012, but achieved next to nothing. A handful of podiums - and only third placings - is nowhere near what Solberg was capable of at the height of his powers a decade ago. If he under-performed driving for a works team in one of the most-developed cars in the field, why is he suddenly going to be back in championship contention driving an under-developed car after a one-year sabbatical?

[mohit]

i might have a difference perspective about solberg, but he can perform may be in 2012 pressure from ford or malcolm was too much and he just could not focus on driving 100%

in 2011 he was performing really well but then citoren had problem with him ''out performing works drivers''

he is 38 and sure he can develop hyundai he helped malcolm to develop fiesta in 2012 that is why it was performing better then before.

so....................... it's just my perspective i dont see solberg loosing his touch

any ways lets see

[Mintexmemory]

The Close Encounters of The Third Factoryteam.

:) so how did your Solberg blockbuster suggestion survive when mine got deleted? Trolls at work again I think! BJ back from the North Pole and applying.immoderate moderation ( like Cartman in South Park _ respect my authoritah) ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Against cars that have had years in development? Not likely. Perhaps after a season or two of development in their own right, but by then, I think Solberg will be a spent force.

Honestly, I don't get the love for Petter. Sure, he's popular and he's had some success at the highest level, but his skills are in decline. And while he might be cursed with ageing cars, it's obvious he's nowhere near his best. Worse for Solberg is the way he was in a works team in 2012, but achieved next to nothing. A handful of podiums - and only third placings - is nowhere near what Solberg was capable of at the height of his powers a decade ago. If he under-performed driving for a works team in one of the most-developed cars in the field, why is he suddenly going to be back in championship contention driving an under-developed car after a one-year sabbatical?

C'mon BJ this should be in the Petter thread! (caution agent provocateur at work - and I don't mean the expensive. Lingerie brand!)

[A.F.F.]

:) so how did your Solberg blockbuster suggestion survive when mine got deleted? Trolls at work again I think! BJ back from the North Pole and applying.immoderate moderation ( like Cartman in South Park _ respect my authoritah) ;)

The answer is easy. Mine was that good :D

[Brother John]

Trolls at work again I think! BJ back from the North Pole and applying.immoderate moderation ( like Cartman in South Park _ respect my authoritah) ;)

Do you want to be the first member that I will bann here? I don´t need talk behind my back!!!

[Rallyper]

Do you want to be the first member that I will bann here? I don´t need talk behind my back!!!

Are you God the almighty? Are you the one behind bans of N.O.T and JanvaVurpa also?

[dimviii]

Do you want to be the first member that I will bann here? I don´t need talk behind my back!!!

get a life sheriff!!!

[Franky]

Are you God the almighty? Are you the one behind bans of N.O.T and JanvaVurpa also?

He got banned as well? Started to wonder why he'd become so quiet.

[Mintexmemory]

Do you want to be the first member that I will bann here? I don´t need talk behind my back!!!

Excuse me BJ how is a public posting 'talk behind your back' ? Deleting my posts without the courteousy of a PM in explanation is what I'm poking a little gentle fun at. I don't believe I have done anything in contravention of forum rules so why would be under a public threat of being banned. If that is your intention I was under the impression that private warnings were the correct procedure. I don't make personal attacks on members neither do I curse as a matter of course - although I believe most of us are adult enough to be able to take and give banter. I have no difficulty in apologising if my humour is sometimes misunderstood but mostly it appears be taken in the spirit it is intended. Happy to continue this by PM if you have a problem

[Rallyper]

Who gave BJ the authorization of being an admninistrator in the first place?

[MikeD]

Who gave BJ the authorization of being an admninistrator in the first place?

Yes - can we please ask for a moderator to be banned?

[tommeke_B]

Who gave BJ the authorization of being an admninistrator in the first place?
I think you should ask Mark. Some people complained about lack of moderators in the rally-section and BJ did a proposal to become moderator himself. ;)

[Mirek]

Are you God the almighty? Are you the one behind bans of N.O.T and JanvaVurpa also?

JanvaVurpa was banned also? WTF? I didn't know...

[Rallyper]

I think you should ask Mark. Some people complained about lack of moderators in the rally-section and BJ did a proposal to become moderator himself. ;)

Now when you say it, I think I remember...

Anyway, back to topic.

So how do you guys think Hyundai will develop during 2013? Maybe we should have a small competition about Hyundai ending up 2013?

I´ll start:

In december 2013 Hyundai have a WRC-car 90% ready for 2014. Petter and Neuville in first team for 2014. Pontus Tidemand, having won the JWRC in 2013, driving the 3rd i20...

[skarderud]

Topic please? This should be in The bull****tread...
maybe i'm weird, but i don't miss any posibly banned "writers".
maybe BJ has been too harsh, maybe it had too be done. Its lots of bs in every tread here, so he actually have a point.

back to hyundai wrc, and happy ******* christmas.....

[skarderud]

You was faster, per :)

i actually think hyundai can be quite good first year, but not at vw/Citroën level. Maybe at msports level at 2013 end?
the drivers is interesting, hyundai has potensial very good budgets, so they can hire whoever they wan't to get the project go fast both technical, testing and drivers.

[dimviii]

JanvaVurpa was banned also? WTF? I didn't know...

me too....wtf???

[tommeke_B]

i actually think hyundai can be quite good first year, but not at vw/Citroën level. Maybe at msports level at 2013 end?

So you believe VW will be at same level as Citroën and higher than M-Sport? ...

[skarderud]

So you believe VW will be at same level as Citroën and higher than M-Sport? ...

at end of 2013, and 2014 beginning, yes.

i really hopes msport get theire stuff together, thought.

[ToughMac]

Get the right team on board before starting any testing etc. VW knew what they were doing poaching Ogier with a year in hand. Hyundai will do the same. Expect Solberg to be a signed up Hyundai team member by the end of January, if they don't they're foolish.

[wwbroe]

I still don't understand why NOT and JanvaVurpa were banned from this forum. I think there are many guys on this forum that are writing a lot more bull... than those two. At least they had something interesting to say and that can not be said by some others. :D

[Lousada]

JanvanVurpa was rather agressive on the chit-chat forum. I think he got banned for his behaviour over there, rather than for his rally-orientated posts.

[Kielder]

More info about the project: Nandan soll Hyundai WRC bauen*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/12/26/nandan-soll-hyundai-wrc-bauen/index.html)

- In 2014, while the team starts to compete in the WRC, will develop a second WRC based on the new i20, which will arrive on the market in 2015.
- Nandan will be announced in January.
- Hyundai Motor Sport has rented warehouses in Alzenau.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Can they just develop the car for the future like Citroen have for 2013 during 2012?

VW have in 2012 for 2013?

All they would have to do is CHANGE the SHELL/BODY of the car to a new chassis. If the body is just an update (who cares if the road model is NEW) just update the chassis and change the body panels!

Are they really not thinking?

[SubaruNorway]

Can they just develop the car for the future like Citroen have for 2013 during 2012?

VW have in 2012 for 2013?

All they would have to do is CHANGE the SHELL/BODY of the car to a new chassis. If the body is just an update (who cares if the road model is NEW) just update the chassis and change the body panels!

Are they really not thinking?

Run a 2014 body on a 2015 chassis you mean? Not that simple i think :)

[Mirek]

Sometimes it is really easy. For example PQ-25 and PQ-26 platforms of VAG (two generations of small cars) are very similar and switching from one to another must be quite easy. However with Hyundai we see big steps with every generation of car so there I guess it will be more difficult. Still relatively easy task in my opinion.

By the way I'm pretty sure Škoda will test R5 also in existing older-platform based S2000 bodyshell because new Fabia III is still highly classified.

[grugsticles]

Can they just develop the car for the future like Citroen have for 2013 during 2012?

VW have in 2012 for 2013?

All they would have to do is CHANGE the SHELL/BODY of the car to a new chassis. If the body is just an update (who cares if the road model is NEW) just update the chassis and change the body panels!

Are they really not thinking?

I think I know what your getting at - design a car around the current chassis and move its geometry to the new chassis when appropriate so that when it comes time to use the new chassis there is already R+D done for that suspension geometry.

[A.F.F.]

Sometimes it is really easy. For example PQ-25 and PQ-26 platforms of VAG (two generations of small cars) are very similar and switching from one to another must be quite easy. However with Hyundai we see big steps with every generation of car so there I guess it will be more difficult. Still relatively easy task in my opinion.

By the way I'm pretty sure Škoda will test R5 also in existing older-platform based S2000 bodyshell because new Fabia III is still highly classified.

Too bad VAG didn't allow Skoda to progress WRC. I also hope they will develop R5 and rule in WRC2 !!

[tommeke_B]

Too bad VAG didn't allow Skoda to progress WRC. I also hope they will develop R5 and rule in WRC2 !!
I hope (and think) Skoda will compete in ERC... ;)

[A.F.F.]

I hope (and think) Skoda will compete in ERC... ;)

I hope they do WRC2 !!

[Mirek]

I don't think that WRC2 is a place for factory team.

[A.F.F.]

Why not? If a manufacturer is not cabable of WRC they can take part WRC2 with less expenses and yet promote. Also, that would be a brilliant step for young talents to dive in to WRC. I loved when F2 cars were along group-A cars even the formula was a bit unfair.

[Mirek]

I don't agree. Manufacturers need real promotion - that means they need to win overall. Nobody cares that a car brand wins WRC2 if it is placed 10th overall in Rallye Monte Carlo behind it's main business rivals, but if You can say You won Rallye Sanremo it's something of much higher marketing value no matter it is different championship. Most of the public have no clue about calendars, competition levels etc. They just see Škoda over Peugeot and Ford or Škoda behind Citroën, Ford, VW and Mini. What is better for them is clear.

Besides that WRC2 shall be accessible for young drivers and privateers who want to come to WRC. If You give them works opposition which destroys them whenever it wants it's hardly any motivation. Of course Your point with feeding VW is fully valid. I just hope it's not going to end only that way...

Third point is that for global company like VAG it shall be better to split its forces to all popular championships instead of wasting resources for in-house war.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

I don't think that WRC2 is a place for factory team.
What if they were Skoda Fabias run by Volkswagen Motorsport as a means of finding new talent?

[rv65]

I guess Hyundai is working on a next generation i20.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

[A.F.F.]

I don't agree. Manufacturers need real promotion - that means they need to win overall. Nobody cares that a car brand wins WRC2 if it is placed 10th overall in Rallye Monte Carlo behind it's main business rivals, but if You can say You won Rallye Sanremo it's something of much higher marketing value no matter it is different championship. Most of the public have no clue about calendars, competition levels etc. They just see Škoda over Peugeot and Ford or Škoda behind Citroën, Ford, VW and Mini. What is better for them is clear.

Besides that WRC2 shall be accessible for young drivers and privateers who want to come to WRC. If You give them works opposition which destroys them whenever it wants it's hardly any motivation. Of course Your point with feeding VW is fully valid. I just hope it's not going to end only that way...

Third point is that for global company like VAG it shall be better to split its forces to all popular championships instead of wasting resources for in-house war.

Having manufacturers in WRC2 might lure them in to WRC like it did with F2, remember Skoda and Seat. You never know!!

About young drivers and their hopes/motivation having crushed by professionals.... well, that is their wake up call! Good drivers shall always be noticed, plus the fact they can select the most proper rallys to them.

Your third point I can't argue. But I don't believe they think that in Skoda HQ. I'm certain given the chance, they think they would kick VW's a$$ ;)

PS, sorry about the off-topic but I don't have anything good to say Hyundai's WRC project so far :p

[tommeke_B]

PS, sorry about the off-topic but I don't have anything good to say Hyundai's WRC project so far :p
Nobody has anything to say about the Hyundai project yet... ;) Only those "smart" guys who rate the whole thing based on a promo video say something, but nothing with any value... :)
I also think Skoda will stay in ERC, for marketing reasons. Tell me, in the history of rallying, when did the B-class in a same championship ever get some reasonable marketing exposure? VW got some attention now, but only because they are going to join the WRC next year and because it's Ogier. The IRC (now ERC) is a perfect step-up for WRC already, see Neuville, Mikkelsen, Meeke, and Hänninen now. If you can show your talent there, your probably more visible for teams than in WRC2/SWRC, where the competition level looked far below ERC imho.

[Mirek]

Having manufacturers in WRC2 might lure them in to WRC like it did with F2, remember Skoda and Seat. You never know!!

I know. Škoda is not allowed to make WRC because of VW.

[Mirek]

What if they were Skoda Fabias run by Volkswagen Motorsport as a means of finding new talent?

That is Sepp Wiegand. Run by Škoda Importer team (Škoda Deutschland, Juka Motorsport car). VW doesn't plan any starts with Fabia.

[crossfades]

I don't think having a manufacture team in WRC2 is quite right. I mean, how are private teams that chases their budget, and maybe even struggles for it, gonna to stand a chance against manufacture teams with big budgets? That's probably also why the WRC only had two manufacture teams for a while, the costs were to big and you couldn't get anything out of it, not a win or podium, just a giant beating from Citroen and Ford.
With manufacture teams, costs rises through the roof if it isn't handled right, like F1 where only a two, three teams fighting for the glory.

[AndyRAC]

VW Group have famously had a policy of not competing against each other - and having a discipline for each company. The was an interview with Jost Capito; the Group Heads of Motorsport meet throughout the year, were programmes/ budgets are discussed.
This policy can be changed when it suits them; next year Porsche will return to the top level of Sportscars, and take on Audi; however they will use different engine types: a petrol hybrid v a diesel hybrid.
So, unless the WRC regs change, there is no point in allowing Skoda into the WRC to take on VW with virtually the same car. Maybe Skoda needs to go the ERC/ WRC2 route and build a R5 Fabia??

[mousti]

Maybe Skoda needs to go the ERC/ WRC2 route and build a R5 Fabia??
That's the plan for some months now..

[Mirek]

Yes, Fabia R5 is under development. It is intended to win ERC and as many regional/national titles as possible ;)

[Barreis]

15 years ago F2 had very good promotion. Seat/renault/skoda/hyundai/citroen works teams were involved in lower categories.

[tommeke_B]

Autonews Magazine » WRC » Hyundai recrute en France pour la i20 WRC (http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blog/?p=28075)
Rumors that Michel Nandan and Bertrand Vallet would work on the Hyundai project...

[BDunnell]

15 years ago F2 had very good promotion. Seat/renault/skoda/hyundai/citroen works teams were involved in lower categories.

Indeed, before the days when the FIA decided it was a good idea to do separate TV deals for different categories on WRC events. The cars were exciting to watch, too.

[AndyRAC]

15 years ago F2 had very good promotion. Seat/renault/skoda/hyundai/citroen works teams were involved in lower categories.

Yes, Seat sold their cars with a sticker on, "F2 World Rally Champions"....

Manufacturers are in it to sell more cars. I've always thought there needs to be a Championship for one of the most important car sectors, the Hot Hatch market; FWD, 1.6L/ 2.0L.......

[A.F.F.]

Nobody has anything to say about the Hyundai project yet... ;) Only those "smart" guys who rate the whole thing based on a promo video say something, but nothing with any value... :)
I also think Skoda will stay in ERC, for marketing reasons. Tell me, in the history of rallying, when did the B-class in a same championship ever get some reasonable marketing exposure? VW got some attention now, but only because they are going to join the WRC next year and because it's Ogier. The IRC (now ERC) is a perfect step-up for WRC already, see Neuville, Mikkelsen, Meeke, and Hänninen now. If you can show your talent there, your probably more visible for teams than in WRC2/SWRC, where the competition level looked far below ERC imho.


Well, first example to come in mind was 1986 when Eriksson drove group-A VW Golf in the era of group-B cars. He got a decent amount of media coverage. Also, F2 cars later on, especially when they drove into WRC points but even without them, they got their own coverage.

Now, I've wrote my posts at night due to my work and I notice my fails :p

I want to point out that NOW, FIA with Red Bull-promotions, has an excellent chance to build a proper lower class to WRC-world. Done right, it would attract new manufacturers and drivers to rallying and at best, we would have TWO exciting classes in every rallies. What would be better. IMO the steps to WRC should be from ERC to WRC2 and then to WRC. But that's just my opinion.

[A.F.F.]

15 years ago F2 had very good promotion. Seat/renault/skoda/hyundai/citroen works teams were involved in lower categories.

This got to be the first post I 100% agree with Barreis :D

[A.F.F.]

Btw... does anyone know how Peugeot vs Citroen was possible to PSA? And Seat vs Skoda before them with VAG? Especially when Citroen and Peugeot fought, they spend a lot of money and not only on drivers ...

[Mirek]

That time the car market was rapidly growing. Something which is over now. Since that time also the number of independent manufacturers decreased a lot. Also the general public isn't that much interested in cars. Young people do care much more about smart phones and other electronic stuff and cars are often just a necessary mean of transport, not like 20 years a go. In my opinion very small percentage of car buyers have any clue about technical stuff or actual competition in some championships, in my opinion the only thing which now can work in marketing point of view is overall victory in well known events and championships.

[A.F.F.]

I'm afraid you're 100% right Mirek.

[Barreis]

This got to be the first post I 100% agree with Barreis :D

When you like my post I know there's something terminally wrong. :D Shall we spectate MC last day (Croats and Finns) together?

[Rallyper]

That time the car market was rapidly growing. Something which is over now. Since that time also the number of independent manufacturers decreased a lot. Also the general public isn't that much interested in cars. Young people do care much more about smart phones and other electronic stuff and cars are often just a necessary mean of transport, not like 20 years a go. In my opinion very small percentage of car buyers have any clue about technical stuff or actual competition in some championships, in my opinion the only thing which now can work in marketing point of view is overall victory in well known events and championships.

But everything is about how you market your messages to the buyers. And how you market the WRC2 or WRC-x classes. It´s up to the sports management to market the sport. In olympics you have several sports and everyone is exciting for the public. So why not WRC, WRC2 and on...?

[A.F.F.]

When you like my post I know there's something terminally wrong. :D Shall we spectate MC last day (Croats and Finns) together?

Don't get too excited, this wasn't an invitation to the shower together. I still haven't forgot your broken record of Latvala ;)

[Barreis]

Don't want anymore about Latvala 'cos of numerous bans here in last months. Don't want to be next. :D

[A.F.F.]

Don't want anymore about Latvala 'cos of numerous bans here in last months. Don't want to be next. :D

Good for you :up: While taking a vacation out of bashing Latvala, you might end up with good posts, like your previous one :)

[tommeke_B]

Good for you :up: While taking a vacation out of bashing Latvala, you might end up with good posts, like your previous one :)
It's the exception that proves the rule...

[mohit]

any news or rumors about the driver line up for hyundai ?

[6789]

I don't think they even have a real test car just yet, so driver line up is going to be a long while.

[rallye-vid]

new office ;)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528726_10151412809364973_749374073_n.jpg

[Kielder]

More info about the project and the new i20 WRC in 2015:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/35i0j6d.jpg

Larger size (http://oi47.tinypic.com/35i0j6d.jpg)

[Adler]

It seems Stohl racing is involved in development in some way...

Rallye: News - Rallye-News - Rallye - motorline.cc (http://www.motorline.cc/rallye/news/2013/Rallye-WM/Rallye-News-Ich-kann-das-nur-schwer-verneinen----175251.html)

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorline.cc%2Frallye%2Fnews%2F 2013%2FRallye-WM%2FRallye-News-Ich-kann-das-nur-schwer-verneinen----175251.html&act=url)

[EightGear]

Hyundai appoints Michel Nandan as World Rally team boss - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105067)

[RAS007]

World Rally Championship - News - Hyundai confirms WRC team details (http://www.wrc.com/news/hyundai-confirms-wrc-team-details/?fid=18177)

[ToughMac]

Any more news here, at this stage last year VW had a comprehensive test programme about to begin and yet we have seen very little that resembles a full blown WRC

[Rallyper]

I guess they need to build a proper car before testing. Engine surely is tested back home in SK. Drivetrain should be standard WRC stuff from Sadev/Xtrac/Tractive. So what remains is to put things together.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Any more news here, at this stage last year VW had a comprehensive test programme about to begin and yet we have seen very little that resembles a full blown WRC
That may be down to the different business models. Where Volkswagen were very public about their testing and development phase, Hyundai have fairly conservative about this sort of stuff in the past. I would not go expecting constant coverage of the i20's development, and nor would I interpret a lack of coverage as a lack of progress.

[Kielder]

Hyundai i20 WRC at the Geneva Motorshow:

http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024029l.jpg
http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024028l.jpg

http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024024l.jpg
http://www.rallylife.cz/data/imgs/0024026l.jpg

The thing is taking shape.

[GritPics]

Looks quite alright actually, was previously really unsure on it.

[Viking]

Hyundai Unveils Upgraded i20 WRC at Geneva


New specification Hyundai i20 WRC launched at Geneva marks another important step in team development schedule

Latest spec includes upgrades to aerodynamics, chassis and suspension to improve cooling, enhance suspension kinematics and chassis stiffness

Development of Alzenau facility is proceeding rapidly and to plan with focus on key staff recruitment

Private testing of i20 will begin later in the year at various locations in Europe

HYUNDAI || News (http://www.hyundaiglobalnews.com/prCenter/news/newsView.do?dID=1595)

[Rallyper]

OOOHHHH!!! That´s a beauty!!!

Hope this will turn out happily ever after!

[ToughMac]

Looks like Hyundai are going all VW on their aerodynamic package, really looking forward to seeing what the finished product will look like.

[Kielder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTd2Lw8gvjw#t=00m34s

I'd like also to see Meeke driving it. :)

[Rallyper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTd2Lw8gvjw#t=00m34s

I'd like also to see Meeke driving it. :)

Tidemand and PG as well :)

[Mirek]

Looks like Hyundai are going all VW on their aerodynamic package, really looking forward to seeing what the finished product will look like.

Could You be more specific?

[Allyc85]

Nice! It is starting to look like a proper WRC car now!

[ToughMac]

Could You be more specific?

Namely the arches, and the fact that their shape has been designed with the assistance of a wind tunnel. The aerodynamics of the Polo in its early stages looked pretty much the same as what Hyundai have now, looks like aerodynamics over performance will be the key feature to these new generation world rally cars.

[Hazza555)]

That is sick looking car. That livery really sets it off. It's good to see a livery that doesn't use white as a base colour as well.

[Sulland]

Is this one a drivable car or just a mock up?

[Mintexmemory]

Is this one a drivable car or just a mock up?

Depends how convincingly you can say 'brmm, brmmm' sitting behind the wheel!!
Bet we don't get any under the bonnet shots ;)

[A.F.F.]

I'm one step closer to eat my words, it'll happen when I see that thing on stages. But I have to admit it starts to look promising.

[Mirek]

Namely the arches, and the fact that their shape has been designed with the assistance of a wind tunnel. The aerodynamics of the Polo in its early stages looked pretty much the same as what Hyundai have now, looks like aerodynamics over performance will be the key feature to these new generation world rally cars.

I don't see anything so significant about them. Most of current cars have similar arches. I guess most of them were tested in wind tunnel or at least simulated and that's why they look similar in result.

[Salist]

Here is a high resolution photo. Sorry if too big.
http://gwcm.hyundai.com/cs/idcplg?IdcService=GET_FILE&dDocName=PRCENTERNEWS1600&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased

[Barreis]

If they're going to run a program in 2014 and they didn't start to test already, could be a disaster year unless they hire someone like Solberg for a driver.

[Rallyper]

I guess Solberg would be a good option to begin with. Maybe one of his adepts could join as well (Flodin?)

[ToughMac]

I don't see anything so significant about them. Most of current cars have similar arches. I guess most of them were tested in wind tunnel or at least simulated and that's why they look similar in result.

Maybe you need to look more closely.

[Mintexmemory]

I guess Solberg would be a good option to begin with. Maybe one of his adepts could join as well (Flodin?)

Don't you think that they'd want more cash than Henning has at the moment? ;)

[ToughMac]

Is there any major sponsor being linked with Hyundai at the moment?

[Rallyper]

Don't you think that they'd want more cash than Henning has at the moment? ;)

I meant Petter to be testdriver. No money needed for sure, for that purpose. I guess the other way around if it happens. Petter will be payed a full season in 2015... :s mokin:

[[WRCRR]]

Hyundai has the money needed these days if they want to do this seriously. Do they really want to is the real question.

Hopefully yes, then we might have some much needed competition for VW in the coming years.

[rallye-vid]

Petter as crash test dummy?

[Rallyper]

I didn´t say that. To test doesn´t need to crash, but if necessary I think that could be arranged.

[cali]

It's interesting that Per only offers swedish or norwegian drivers and it's not even funny anymore

[Rallyper]

It's interesting that Per only offers swedish or norwegian drivers and it's not even funny anymore

Barreis first mentioned Solberg (I guess Petter) as testdriver. Someone here said Meeke if I don´t have it wrong. Please, tell me more fast drivers able to do good testing of the new Huyndai.

Many of them come from northern part of Europe, at least testing on gravel and snow/ice. Or do you have other suggestions?

[cali]

Of course I have suggestions - Markko Märtin as a test driver, Ott Tänak as number one driver and some other estonian dude as no. 2.

[Plan9]

If I remember correctly, Hyundai has said they would like to launch another new i20 WRC for 2015 (when they update the road car). So we will only have this car for 2014. I wonder if that is still seen as feasible by HQ?
As for drivers; I do not care where they come from as long as they are fast and have enough technical savvy not to repeat the earlier Hyundai rally project.

[AndyRAC]

I think they should go down the VW route of running a car in a lower class to gain experience of the sport for all team members, servicing under pressure, logistics, etc

[Rallyper]

Of course I have suggestions - Markko Märtin as a test driver, Ott Tänak as number one driver and some other estonian dude as no. 2.

For sure. That´s the best option. :rolleyes:

[Mise]

Of course I have suggestions - Markko Märtin as a test driver, Ott Tänak as number one driver and some other estonian dude as no. 2.

I've heard about Some Other Estonian Dude. He is fast. :cool:

[BOZIANracing]

If I remember correctly, Hyundai has said they would like to launch another new i20 WRC for 2015 (when they update the road car). So we will only have this car for 2014. I wonder if that is still seen as feasible by HQ?
As for drivers; I do not care where they come from as long as they are fast and have enough technical savvy not to repeat the earlier Hyundai rally project.

Seat had quite a major facelift to the Cordoba midway through the '99 season. I actually preferred the Evo1 that they had out first. Anything is possible when you have the money, which I'm sure Hyundai have! It would be nice to see cars changing in appearance from year to year as they used to. Look at the C4, DS3, Focus etc. No real physical changes and practically same liveries for years on end

[ToughMac]

Seat had quite a major facelift to the Cordoba midway through the '99 season. I actually preferred the Evo1 that they had out first. Anything is possible when you have the money, which I'm sure Hyundai have! It would be nice to see cars changing in appearance from year to year as they used to. Look at the C4, DS3, Focus etc. No real physical changes and practically same liveries for years on end

Used to look for to the start of every season through the 90s just to see the different evolution in cars and the different liveries. Your right, you don't seem to get that now which is a shame but with more manufacturers in the sport sponsorship may start to move freely once again creating a bit of variety among the teams.

[Kielder]

Michel Nandan said to Autosport that they will start testing in July with another evolution of the i20 WRC. Much of the engine work will be completed in Korea.

[J.Lindstroem]

I've heard about Some Other Estonian Dude. He is fast. :cool:


He is ok but a little bit to much of a NOBODY for me.

[darkstar]

a very interesting interview with nandan:

Hyundai macht Ernst*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/03/08/hyundai-macht-ernst/index.html)

translation:

Google Übersetzer (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/wm/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2013/03/08/hyundai-macht-ernst/index.html)

if something is not understandable in that google translation, ask me, i will translate it.

[OldF]

Looks like it wont be neccessary next year to homologate a S2000 1.6T (RRC) before the homologation of the WRC car (WRC kit).


Could it be a chance to develop in addition to the WRC, a RRC for national championships?

"Next year, the FIA change the rules, then you do not need more Regional Rally Car to build a World Rally Car. For us this is a good thing, because we can not concentrate so fully on the World Rally Car. In reality, the only benefit of RRC version to a WRC provides an afterlife. The i20 is the first true-WRC after 2014 Regulations.”

[kober]

To build a WRC without having to homologate a S2000 1.6T first is a logical step to move into R5 direction. When R5 cars will be broadly available, who would bother to rally in a more-expensive-to-run-yet-slower S2000?

So, we're down to:
- WRC
- R5
- R-GT
- R3
- R2
- R1

[tommeke_B]

You can forget about the R-GT too ;)

[Mirek]

FIA yesterday decided to change R-GT regulations to attract manufacturers. Let's wait what they come with.

[Sulland]

Now we are up to 4 x R5 cars confirmed when Citroen comes in today.

Is Fia running WRC for 1 more 3 year periode from 13 or 14? Why keep beating a dead horse. WRC has to few seats, and it will remain like that.

I have challenges understanding Hyundai building new WRC for 14.

or do anyone still believe todays WRC format will survive for long?

[AMSS]

No news anywhere in what dampers they will use and whose transmission? I can`t find official news and nobody I talk to knows anything?
If anyone has this info than please share.. :)
OK transmission is only 2 options but the suspension..

[Mirek]

If I'm not mistaken Peugeot started to use Öhlins dampers recently (on the new 208 R2): Before they built their own for the 207 S2000 I think. Citroën worked with BOS or built their own too if I remember. So we'll see what they use for the R5.

EDIT: Hups, You mean Hyundai, right? I think I heard somewhere they would use Sachs like VW but I'm not sure at all where the info came from...

[A FONDO]

The trans. is xtrac some chief said in interview 1-2 weeks ago they already have contract. for others parts they still negotiate

[AMSS]

If I'm not mistaken Peugeot started to use Öhlins dampers recently (on the new 208 R2): Before they built their own for the 207 S2000 I think. Citroën worked with BOS or built their own too if I remember. So we'll see what they use for the R5.

EDIT: Hups, You mean Hyundai, right? I think I heard somewhere they would use Sachs like VW but I'm not sure at all where the info came from...

Jep meant Hyundai.. :)

[[WRCRR]]

Sachs / Xtrac sounds good - hope thats what they use...

[wrc45]

If Hyundai wants to be fast and wants to drive in to the top 3 or top 5 then they really got only 3 drivers to choose between. Ott Tänak, Juho Hänninen, Kris Meeke

[A FONDO]

and P-G :D

[bluuford]

P-G became 33 on Sunday, by the way :) Happy Birthday to him!

[RJM]

If I'm not mistaken Peugeot started to use Öhlins dampers recently (on the new 208 R2): Before they built their own for the 207 S2000 I think. Citroën worked with BOS or built their own too if I remember. So we'll see what they use for the R5.

EDIT: Hups, You mean Hyundai, right? I think I heard somewhere they would use Sachs like VW but I'm not sure at all where the info came from...

Citroen used EXE-TC suspension until recently, Im suprised citroen used british suspension...

[sollitt]

If Hyundai wants to be fast and wants to drive in to the top 3 or top 5 then they really got only 3 drivers to choose between. Ott Tänak, Juho Hänninen, Kris MeekeReally ??

[catty]

If I'm not mistaken Peugeot started to use Öhlins dampers recently (on the new 208 R2): Before they built their own for the 207 S2000 I think. Citroën worked with BOS or built their own too if I remember. So we'll see what they use for the R5.

The 207 s2000 uses BOS dampers.
Same goes for DS3 WRC

Citroen used EXE-TC suspension until recently, Im suprised citroen used british suspension...
Yeah they normally like to keep everything on the car french!

[noel157]

Really ??

Ok, Paddon, who else then?

[dupanton]

Ok, Paddon, who else then?

Breen, Neuville, Novikov, Ostberg (I don't know if the last 2 have a long term contract with Ford)

[noel157]

Breen, Neuville, Novikov, Ostberg (I don't know if the last 2 have a long term contract with Ford)

Breen is some way away yet from being a WRC pilot, and also not enough experience to develop a car yet.

[dupanton]

Breen is some way away yet from being a WRC pilot, and also not enough experience to develop a car yet.

Then why are Tanak and Paddon mentioned ;)
I think an experienced driver and a young talent are the best driver line up.

[sollitt]

Breen would be on my list of up & comers manufacturers ought be looking at however I agree with noel157, there is some gap between him and Tanak/Paddon.

Don't be mistaken into thinking Paddon is young and inexperienced. At 25 he's got many years left in him but he's certainly not young, and he is far from inexperienced. In fact his resume' would rival both Ogier's & Loeb's at the time they were picked up by Citroen and he is not without testing and setup ability.

If manufacturers are to avoid a repeat of the Sebastion Loeb cycle they need to change their thinking and look outside of the current crop of WRC pilots, none of whom are winners.
Sadly, if recent reports are correct, Hyundai are destined to repeat the mistakes of others.

[Motorsportfun]

Everyone's forgetting one of the best car-developers in rallying: Juho Hanninen. He would perfectly suit this role!

[sollitt]

Hanninen was mentioned earlier in this discussion. Nobody has 'forgotten' him. I'd certainly have him in the picture.

[WUff1]

Hanninen would deserve a cockpit much more than Breen at the moment. Let´s have a another look when Breen can beat guys like Kopecky, Kubica and others in ERC

[AMSS]

Citroen used EXE-TC suspension until recently, Im suprised citroen used british suspension...
If we`re really precise Citroen never really directly bought dampers from Exe(except the first C4 :s ), they had a close collaboration, and after the first years with the C4 they mainly bought various parts and consult help from Exe-TC but assembled them in house, when they started with the DS3 they tested BOS but opted to do everything completely on their own, which is where they are at the moment..

[Marcco]

Everyone's forgetting one of the best car-developers in rallying: Juho Hanninen. He would perfectly suit this role!
I think Hanninen and Paddon would make good team :)

[Mirek]

If we`re really precise Citroen never really directly bought dampers from Exe(except the first C4 :s ), they had a close collaboration, and after the first years with the C4 they mainly bought various parts and consult help from Exe-TC but assembled them in house, when they started with the DS3 they tested BOS but opted to do everything completely on their own, which is where they are at the moment..

That was also my understanding - that they took various solutions from others but the final product was their in-house.

[KickenRallySport]

PG are the fastest driver in the world without a seat.... Of course he is 33, but whats the problem? Give him two seasons in a good car in wrc and he is at the top three at the end of the year.

[AndyRAC]

Breen would be on my list of up & comers manufacturers ought be looking at however I agree with noel157, there is some gap between him and Tanak/Paddon.

Don't be mistaken into thinking Paddon is young and inexperienced. At 25 he's got many years left in him but he's certainly not young, and he is far from inexperienced. In fact his resume' would rival both Ogier's & Loeb's at the time they were picked up by Citroen and he is not without testing and setup ability.

If manufacturers are to avoid a repeat of the Sebastion Loeb cycle they need to change their thinking and look outside of the current crop of WRC pilots, none of whom are winners.
Sadly, if recent reports are correct, Hyundai are destined to repeat the mistakes of others.

Yes, most of the names mentioned were predictable.

Are they really going to make their debut in 2014 at Monte-Carlo? Have they learnt anything from VW? If I was running the team I'd have 2 cars ( any cars, even 2 R3 cars would be a start) running in the WRC so the team, drivers, mechanics, etc get used to each other on an event, and the logistics involved in a high pressure event.

[dimviii]

If we`re really precise Citroen never really directly bought dampers from Exe(except the first C4 :s ), they had a close collaboration, and after the first years with the C4 they mainly bought various parts and consult help from Exe-TC but assembled them in house, when they started with the DS3 they tested BOS but opted to do everything completely on their own, which is where they are at the moment..

yes thats exactly what i know too.

[EightGear]

Are they really going to make their debut in 2014 at Monte-Carlo? .

There are some stories they are going to debut in Wales 2013, even.

[sollitt]

I think Hanninen and Paddon would make good team :) I like your thinking Marcco.

[Plan9]

Lacking any obvious talent in Korea, wouldn't it be logical for Hyundai to have 1 European driver and 1 from the Asia Pacific region to reflect its diverse markets?

[sollitt]

Not at all. It is logical only that they employ people who can win.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Chris Atkinson... who has won APRC....

[A.F.F.]

Having witnessed Atkinson's recent results in WRC, I don't think his marketing value is very high.... :mark:

[Mirek]

Chris Atkinson... who has won APRC....

There is no real competition in APRC. It's nice championship but winning it means nothing for WRC. The speed needed there is completely different.

[vino_93]

There is no real competition in APRC. It's nice championship but winning it means nothing for WRC. The speed needed there is completely different.
and moreover, his team mate Gaurav Gill was fastest than him - but not so reliable.

[Plan9]

P-G didn't find APRC a walk in the park that's for sure

[Mirek]

With Proton on DMack tyres ;)

[Plan9]

Not at all. It is logical only that they employ people who can win.

I hear all of those drivers are contracted to VW at present :D

[Plan9]

With Proton on DMack tyres ;)

Alister hasn't let those issues hold him back.

[Rallyper]

Alister hasn't let those issues hold him back.

So where is he now?

[Plan9]

We'll know by round 1 of the APRC this year.

[GigiGalliNo1]

He won't be competing in APRC. His co-driver is with a different driver this year competing in the Australian Rally Championships.

[GigiGalliNo1]

But Proton are confirmed for APRC in 2013

[Plan9]

He won't be competing in APRC. His co-driver is with a different driver this year competing in the Australian Rally Championships.

Do you have a source for this? If so what will Alister be doing? Do you know who will be in the other Neo Satria?

[GigiGalliNo1]

McRae will attend Rally Queensland as a guest but not driving.

Nothing on drivers for Proton. Sorry.

But the info is reliable and good !

[Plan9]

I think it would be good to quote the source, there is nothing coving this on the internet that I could find.

[sollitt]

It doesn't take much to discover that Bill Hayes is indeed sitting in a Clio in the ARC and GG#1 is not known to spread idle gossip.

[Rallyper]

Back to topic please!

[skarderud]

not rally, but rallycross:

norwegian Frode Holte, known with an fast and blue volvo c30, builds a i20 with some support from hyundai norway.
in an intervju with the norwegian marketingboss in hyundai, he admitt that an one make cup in norway is "interesting"... :)

[tommeke_B]

Alain Penasse is the new team manager of Hyundai. :)

[dimviii]

Alain Penasse is the new team manager of Hyundai. :)


Alain Penasse has been heavily involved in different championships since TBC. He started as assistant team manager for Toyota Team Europe, consultant for different teams in the WRC, Quality Assurance Manager of Rally Ireland, Logistics Coordinator of Michelin in WRC and IRC, Rally Manager of Geko Ypres Rally and Promotor of Belgian Championship are only part of the list of roles he has covered.

Team - On Event - All about rally (http://www.onevent.be/Default.asp?language=en&page=16)

[dimviii]

Michel Nandan interview
http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/03/26/wrc-news/qa-michel-nandan-hyundai-motorsport-team-principal/

[Mirek]

Alain Penasse is the new team manager of Hyundai. :)

Will he try to resuscitate Duval?

[tommeke_B]

Will he try to resuscitate Duval?

I think Alain is a very capable person, regarding what he is doing and what he has been doing in the past. So I don't think Duval will be linked with Hyundai in any way, at least not before he could prove himself again in another car... :) Also if Yves Matton would give Duval a drive in some asphalt event, I think it could be a very risky gamble... Duval has been out of (proper) competition for too long.

[OldF]

They have a crazy tight schedule if they are building the infrastructure and recruiting staff at the moment and aiming to have a car ready at the beginning of 2014.

I don’t know how the case is at the moment but I remember reading somewhere that when the new WRC started at the beginning of 2011, they had an opportunity to homologate new parts before 1.5.2011 and also had more jokers during the first year.

[tommeke_B]

They have a crazy tight schedule if they are building the infrastructure and recruiting staff at the moment and aiming to have a car ready at the beginning of 2014.

I don’t know how the case is at the moment but I remember reading somewhere that when the new WRC started at the beginning of 2011, they had an opportunity to homologate new parts before 1.5.2011 and also had more jokers during the first year.

It's not because things are getting public now, that decisions can't have been taken longer ago... :) Who knows, they may already have a busy testing shedule without anyone of us knowing about it? ;)

[OldF]

That’s true, Hyundai have been very silence about the development.

They’ve probably done a lot of the development of the engine in the South Korea but imo the development of the suspension etc. which is a very key factor of the performance they need an experienced WRC or another experienced driver to develop the drivability of the car.

I don’t think there are that kind of drivers in South Korea. Maybe a driver like Tommi Mäkinen could have been involved. At least he’s been in China looking for new business because I don’t think the building of N4 / R4 has been so good business lately.


Just my guessing. :)

[Barreis]

Seems that engine is homologated already.
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/ToutesVoitures_21.03.2013.pdf

[ProRally]

Seems to be that Alain Penasse is going to be Team Manager....

[Motorsportfun]

Seems to be that Alain Penasse is going to be Team Manager....

The contract was signed around Sweden, early February. ;)

[Plan9]

Here is some good news about the Hyundai program: iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android (http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00003595&10)

This is part is particularly good for us rally fans in the Asia Pacific region: Paddon is available and has made it clear he is looking for a WRC opportunity. The New Zealander could appeal to the Korean manufacturer with its Asia Pacific base and sales interests.

[Leon]

so back to sleep/no news mode again for Hyundai?

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Paddon is treating his Germany and Finland entries as an informal audition for a Hyundai seat:

Hayden Paddon to contest WRC2 German and Finnish rallies - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/107253)


so back to sleep/no news mode again for Hyundai?
Who ever said that they are obligated to give regular updates on what they are doing?

[Leon]

Who ever said that they are obligated to give regular updates on what they are doing?[/QUOTE]

Who ever said that Marketing, PR and the like are of any good use for a company. I guess VW were wrong in their approach during the build up period .........

[Barreis]

Vw had full season with s2000, i20 isn't ready for testing yet.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Who ever said that Marketing, PR and the like are of any good use for a company. I guess VW were wrong in their approach during the build up period .........
I think you're forgetting business culture. Hyundai evidently don't want to build up excitement and expectations, only to disappoint.


Vw had full season with s2000, i20 isn't ready for testing yet.
And the Fabia S2000 didn't really have a whole lot to do with the Polo R WRC. They mostly just used it to give the team some experience. Even if the Polo R WRC was derived directed from the Fabia S2000, what is Hyundai supposed to do, considering that they don't have any existing model that can compete as an S2000 entry? They'd essentially have to develop their development model before they could start on the WRC model, and that is a waste of time, effort and money.

[Mirek]

And the Fabia S2000 didn't really have a whole lot to do with the Polo R WRC. They mostly just used it to give the team some experience. Even if the Polo R WRC was derived directed from the Fabia S2000, what is Hyundai supposed to do, considering that they don't have any existing model that can compete as an S2000 entry? They'd essentially have to develop their development model before they could start on the WRC model, and that is a waste of time, effort and money.

While I agree with the later statement that Hyundai have no S2000 to start with I have to tell You that you underestimate the role of Fabia in Polo development.

First it was design reference - something what works well and what You can dismantle to bolts is always welcome for new team. Polo was not built from nothing. For example suspension mounting point positions and damper angles are same for both cars.

Second it was a reference for judging competitors. You have competitors in WRC and You have Ogier in Fabia S2000. You know on the stages the difference between WRC and Ogier was X. Now after the rally You stay there for testing on same stages. Now You have Ogier in Polo and Ogier in Fabia. You compare and the difference is Y. Than You compare X to Y and You know quite realistic difference between Polo WRC and Your WRC opponents. Thanks to splits etc. You can go further with particular sections of the stage.

With the help of Škoda they could test suspension settings on real stages with Fabia and compare Reiger and Sachs dampers both in real events and tests.

It also allowed VW to collect loads of data from real events and to practise all team working in real conditions - be it logistics, solving real issues etc. That's something You can't get without live experience.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Then let's take that in our stride and go back to the original comment that the i20 isn't ready for testing and development yet. That may be the case, but what alternative do Hyundai have? The have no S2000 model to use, and they can't exactly delay their i20 programme for an entire season with no presence in the sport. Manufacturers will only get involved if there is a pay-off involved, and Hyundai probably think that struggling through their first season and treating it as a testing and development phase is the leser evil when compared to having no presence in the category whatsoever.

[Mirek]

That's probably the case or they are so much confident about the team of people they hired. Let's see what they can do.

[Barreis]

Can't see they'll be good from the start without propper year of testing.

[kober]

How does it look from the homologation point of view? I know that they're not longer obliged to homologate ten S2000 cars + ten WRC kits, but just ten (?) WRC cars. But, if they'll make the homologation on 1 Jan 2014, would they be locked from any major changes for another three years? That would be rather risky.

[Prisoner Monkeys]

Can't see they'll be good from the start without propper year of testing.
Who said that they were expecting to be?

[seb_sh]

I think the philosophy is different to VW who did a full year of testing out of competition in order to be able to battle for the top from the first stage. Hyundai I think will do that testing year directly in competition, or at least that's what the plan appears to be at the moment. We'll see how it turns out, they've recruited an experienced management team but we don't know much about the other guys, mechanics, engineers etc.

[tommeke_B]

How about next season with the car they presented in Geneve, and a completely new car for 2015? ;)

[Vaggelis27]

When they will start the tests?

[Maui J.]

HYUNDAI || News (http://www.hyundaiglobalnews.com/prCenter/news/newsView.do?dID=1766)

[Vaggelis27]

http://www.gcdata.gr/c3/tb_688x500_174281_a565fd08e29128024e10e62cb3c6fbb5 .JPG?v=1
http://www.gcdata.gr/c3/tb_688x500_174282_e71a521595652ff9e32ef988c8efcce4 .JPG?v=1
http://planetemarcus.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/hyundai-test-days-mai13/4187.jpg

[Juha_Koo]

Okay, so Photoshop guys, clarify the driver's face now... ;)

[Vaggelis27]

Hayden Paddon was the driver...

[bluuford]

With the help of map fixing software I can see that driver is older aged. Something like Marcus or one of the Solbergs :-)

[MJW]

Hayden Paddon was the driver...
I heard it was Gilles Panizzi - another throwback to Michel Nandan's days with the Peugeot 206. Well at least I was told that Panizzi was contracted as a test driver by Nnadan.

[bluuford]

well.. as I said.. it was older aged.. definitely not Paddon

[pettersolberg29]

I heard it was Gilles Panizzi - another throwback to Michel Nandan's days with the Peugeot 206. Well at least I was told that Panizzi was contracted as a test driver by Nandan.

I heard it was Gilles too - I know he's been involved in the project anyway and he was definitely pencilled in to play the Sainz-role equivalent for the Polo.

[sollitt]

That's a good looking car.

[Vaggelis27]

well.. as I said.. it was older aged.. definitely not Paddon
Why are u so much sure?

[bluuford]

Why are u so much sure?

I have seen Paddon´s face ;-)

[Vaggelis27]

Where did u see the face of the i20 driver?Not only u have seen his face

[bluuford]

Where did u see the face of the i20 driver?Not only u have seen his face
http://www.gcdata.gr/c3/tb_688x500_174281_a565fd08e29128024e10e62cb3c6fbb5 .JPG?v=1
I used my mapping software (to repair very old paper maps) a little and it is clear that there is a guy who is at least 40 years old. So, my guess was Marcus or some Solbergs, but when I take a second look then it is very similar to Panizzi indeed.

[noel157]

I see the driver could to be around 33 yrs old.....only a guess.. :)

Could be Nandan....or a mechanic. Let's wait for a video.

[Red bull]

http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/05/27/wrc-news/hyundai-i20-wrc-flexes-its-muscles-for-the-first-time/ HYUNDAI TEST (http://www.worldrallyblog.com/2013/05/27/wrc-news/hyundai-i20-wrc-flexes-its-muscles-for-the-first-time/)

[vkangas]

I see the driver could to be around 33 yrs old.....only a guess.. :)

Could be Nandan....or a mechanic. Let's wait for a video.
Maybe you are missing by 2 years... :)

...saw a certain 31 year old driver two times last week pretty close to Hyundai's WRC HQ ;) .

[EightGear]

Maybe you are missing by 2 years... :)

...saw a certain 31 year old driver two times last week pretty close to Hyundai's WRC HQ ;) .

Just say you mean Hanninen :p

[ProRally]

I also doubt that Paddon was driving that car, he wants to, but so there are many others :D