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Daniel
19th June 2008, 08:10
The amazing thing for me is that those who are critical of the Ford tactics accept that they played within the rules yet are referring to them as 'cheats'.
You're either one or the other, you can't be both. So let's stop calling them cheats.

I agree. Ford have done nothing strictly against the rules. Though I do feel it's wrong that they should use another team which is supposed to be independent. To me that stinks a bit. I think the FIA should definitely look at moving against that for sure. Lets not put our heads in the sand and ignore the fact that Malcolm tried to use the Stobart guys to sweep the road. I think that's the real issue here. If you're a 2 person team and you're behind Loeb you can have a maximum of 1 car inbetween yourself and Loeb sweeping the road. I think that's fair. I mean we're not going to grade the roads inbetween cars now are we? But to try and put 2 other drivers from another team inbetween you and the leader has a whiff of sweaty old blue vein/stilton cheese about it IMHO. If Ford want to run a 4 car team then they can do that. But you can't have your cake and eat it. They're either part of the M1 team or they're an M2 team. Not both.

I may be hallucinating but I seem to remember at Rally Australia one year they had a regroup in the middle of each day and the cars were reseeded according to their order overall in the rally. Or I could have imagined that. I think that would be a better idea. Much less opportunity for a driver hang back on day 1 and build up a huge lead on day2 and then merely cruise to the end of day 3. At the end of the day it's gravel and someone has to sweep. But if it has to be the leader of the championship/rally then why not try and equalise things a bit? Someone has to sweep the road so why not make it half a day's disadvantage rather than a whole day? If you did that then it really wouldn't be as easy to do what Ford did.

Daniel
19th June 2008, 08:19
I know that Daniel, Ive competed on both (including swept and unswept gravel).

Question. When you competed were you the 2nd best driver? This might explain why you seem to think this is such a good rule.

Daniel
19th June 2008, 08:33
You never fail to use this get away nonsense...it may have slipped out of your mind but he has won the event in the past so come back with something more clever than this one ;)

Ah come on. Throughout the history of rally there have been rallies that suit the Nordic drivers more than others and there are rallies which seem to favour French drivers and others which favour British drivers. Yes Loeb has won in Sweden. But lets use another couple of examples...... Has Loeb ever won in Finland? Did Gronholm ever win on tarmac? I don't count Gronholm's win on the Monte as a tarmac win though ;) There will always be exceptions to the rules but by and large N.O.T is right.

I like Loeb as a driver.... everyone knows that. But I'd be an idiot to say that Loeb in a Xsara or C4 would win against Marcus when he was as confident as he was in the 206 and if they were in Sweden or Finland. Just like on a good day Marcus would never beat Loeb on a tarmac rally or the Monte.

bluuford
19th June 2008, 09:57
Ah come on. Throughout the history of rally there have been rallies that suit the Nordic drivers more than others and there are rallies which seem to favour French drivers and others which favour British drivers. Yes Loeb has won in Sweden. But lets use another couple of examples...... Has Loeb ever won in Finland? Did Gronholm ever win on tarmac? I don't count Gronholm's win on the Monte as a tarmac win though ;) There will always be exceptions to the rules but by and large N.O.T is right.

One good exception was probably Markko who won in Finland, Corsica and Spain. How many drivers have won in Finland and tarmac (not counting Monte and mixed surface San Remo) as well?
Mäkinen has won in Catalonia, San Remo and Finland. That is only two drivers since 1993 (last 15 years). Marcus and Juha never won on proper tarmac rally. If we are going further back to 1970 then we can find only three more drivers Auriol, Sainz and Alen. That means we have only 5 drivers who has achieved this in last 37 years :-)

Daniel
19th June 2008, 10:00
One good exception was probably Markko who won in Finland, Corsica and Spain. How many drivers have won in Finland and tarmac (not counting Monte and mixed surface San Remo) as well?
Mäkinen has won in Catalonia, San Remo and Finland. That is only two drivers since 1993 (last 15 years). Marcus and Juha never won on proper tarmac rally. If we are going further back to 1970 then we can find only three more drivers Auriol, Sainz and Alen. That means we have only 5 drivers who has achieved this in last 37 years :-)
:up: Markko was definitely a good all-rounder. Just sad what happened but such is life I guess......

Kaps
20th June 2008, 13:26
Does anyone know reasons for retirements of Galli, Garde, Andersson & Aava?

Thanks!

EDIT: ok, I've found out about Gardemeister (engine overheating due to broken radiator) and Andersson (electrics).

So, just Galli & Aava, if anyone knows, please.

HaCo
20th June 2008, 13:34
Aava had the fastest time on SS2 and hit a rock on SS3 braking his suspension. That is what I can remember myself from the eurosport broadcast.

sal
20th June 2008, 13:40
The incar of Aava showed one of his front springs bouncing down the road having been ripped off after hitting a rock.

Viking
20th June 2008, 13:47
Does anyone know reasons for retirements of Galli, Garde, Andersson & Aava?

Thanks!

EDIT: ok, I've found out about Gardemeister (engine overheating due to broken radiator) and Andersson (electrics).

So, just Galli & Aava, if anyone knows, please.

Gigi due to medical reasons.

"Stobart VK M-Sport Ford driver Gigi Galli has withdrawn from the Rally of Turkey due to illness. Under advice from the team’s doctor Galli has decided not to start today due to exhaustion and dehydration caused by the intense heat and demanding rally conditions during the previous two days."

WRC1
20th June 2008, 13:48
The incar of Aava showed one of his front springs bouncing down the road having been ripped off after hitting a rock.

galli: w.o. due to dehydration after leg2! he simply did not drink enough the whole day and broke down in final regrouping...doctors helped him and he felt better imideatly, but not good enough to restart on sunday.

reg

wrc1

Kaps
20th June 2008, 15:15
Thanks guys!

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