2008 Rally of Turkey - official thread

[pettersolberg29]

Yeah but the Subaru is opposite. It will get points because Petter's car has yet to have any 'tech problems'.

[Brother John]

Did he say why?

Because he need next year still a job. He must speak positively concerning the new car.
I can´t bring so much Jack in a plain Don. ;)

[Viking]

Petter comments

Impreza WRC2008 No.5
Petter Solberg: “I am happy for where we are at the moment; we just have to keep on being careful with the car. We had some damage to the front suspension in the last stage before the service, but we were able to continue and the guys fixed it in service no problem. It was so, so rough this afternoon; a lot of things happening with other cars getting damaged too, but that’s how it is so we push on.”

[jonkka]

SS8 should be on?

[pettersolberg29]

Any website that actually does splits?

wrc.com has decided not to...

[Viking]

Jari-Matti must be having all his luck used up, Friday 13th and 3 punktures in the stages, loosing only seconds :)

[pettersolberg29]

Anyone got splits?

[jonkka]

This is like old days, no splits and times are known only at the stage finish... :)

At least nobody can driver to the splits and play tactics...

[pettersolberg29]

We haven't even got stage times!

Loeb and Mikko have finished - but I cant see their time anywhere!

[jonkka]

stage times courtesy of vysledky:
http://www.vysledky-rally.cz/vysledky/?rz=782&filtr=

[pettersolberg29]

http://www.wrcturkey.com/v08/wrc/or_ssr.asp?ralliid=47&stage=7&groups=&ralli_sene=2008&submit.x=36&submit.y=6

Here we go.

Good time - but not amazing to his standards - by JML.

[pettersolberg29]

vysledky - that's beter.

[jonkka]

Less to talk about without splits...

[Tom206wrc]

News about SS8 ??? :confused:


WTF with ISC :mad:

[pettersolberg29]

Good time for Petter - shows that perhaps the car does have he pace on straights!

[jonkka]

It'll be interesting to see if there will be tactics. Fords are not that much ahead and if Loeb drops behind Galli, he would be 4th on the road and back in the lead tomorrow.

[Roy]

galli faster than latvala :eek: Wow!

[jonkka]

Like that

[pettersolberg29]

Great by Galli!

[Viking]

Petter on par with Hirvonen and faster than Loeb, that is at least something.

[jonkka]

wrc.com back on-line... :eek:

[jonkka]

but their times are different? :eek:

[N.O.T]

henning second fastest !!!!

[Tom206wrc]

Split times are back :bounce:

[Tomi]

Petter on par with Hirvonen and faster than Loeb, that is at least something.

But 10 sec slower than galli who has about the same starting position.

[Mr Lopez]

ok so now we have one of the most fascinating tactical battles for many years and wrc.com split times are down. fantastic

[Tom206wrc]

In fact it looks frozen again !!! :rolleyes:

[pettersolberg29]

It'll be funny if everyone drops time for a better position tomorrow, so that Petter and Henning can actaully go for a win!

Yes I know - I'm in crazy dreamland...

[N.O.T]

with just 10 seconds sepparating the leaders to Loeb my guess is that the fords will ease on the final stage to allow Loeb to pass them and go first on the road again tommorow...

[Mr Lopez]

all credit to wrr presenters - they are explaining the tactics about being first on the road quite well - there is hope for the world !

[jonkka]

with just 10 seconds sepparating the leaders to Loeb my guess is that the fords will ease on the final stage to allow Loeb to pass them and go first on the road again tommorow...

That would make sense...

[pettersolberg29]

WRR have been good so far IMO.

Better than last years dismal attempt at humour and interest and rally combo!

[Mr Lopez]

That would make sense...


i just hope the split times will work so we can watch the tactics unfold. ford are in a fantastic position

[xavier]

Petter on par with Hirvonen and faster than Loeb, that is at least something.

Does it actualy mean anything considering that Mikko is trying to let Gigi and JM pass him?

And some people here says that this year running order rule is intresting? We lose 1 full day of rally as for the top drivers the aim of the day was to be behind the others....

Will we see Mikko actualy stopping on SS9 after seb finish the SS so he drop behind him? And then Seb go to leave service park 1 minute late to lose 10 sec and drop back behind Mikko?

[Roy]

I think Galli is sweeping tomorrow.

[Viking]

Is it not only 2 "fresh" stages to sweep tomorrow, some disadvantage being first on the others also but..... :confused:

[N.O.T]

Is it not only 2 "fresh" stages to sweep tomorrow, some disadvantage being first on the others also but..... :confused:

indeed you are correct !!! only 2 stages are new tommorow...

[Mr Lopez]

Does it actualy mean anything considering that Mikko is trying to let Gigi and JM pass him?

And some people here says that this year running order rule is intresting? We lose 1 full day of rally as for the top drivers the aim of the day was to be behind the others....

Will we see Mikko actualy stopping on SS9 after seb finish the SS so he drop behind him? And then Seb go to leave service park 1 minute late to lose 10 sec and drop back behind Mikko?

the restart order for day 2 is based on the times after the final stage of the day - any road penalties after that don't come into play for the restart order

[jonkka]

WRR have been good so far IMO.

Better than last years dismal attempt at humour and interest and rally combo!

After reading that, I tried to listen to them again. But Becks is still there jabbering and after 15secs I closed that window. Yack...

[Roy]

Is it not only 2 "fresh" stages to sweep tomorrow, some disadvantage being first on the others also but..... :confused:

After the night there is a lot of dust on the '2nd run stages'.

[pettersolberg29]

jonkka - I've become immune to Bec's jabbering after trying to listen!

[jonkka]

jonkka - I've become immune to Bec's jabbering after trying to listen!

Then you must be married? :eek:

Besides, they play the worst music on this planet. Which figures as they are brits...

[Roy]

Then you must be married? :eek:

Besides, they play the worst music on this planet. Which figures as they are brits...

Barry Clark choose the music this time.

[Mr Lopez]

Then you must be married? :eek:

Besides, they play the worst music on this planet. Which figures as they are brits...


ouch.......

[N.O.T]

last stage is on but no splits.....

[jonkka]

Villagra has a shared stage win on SS3? :eek:

[Roy]

Good time for Andersson 4th!

[pettersolberg29]

jonkka - I suppose you prefer people dressing up as monsters and singing death metal do you! :P

[A.F.F.]

Barry Clark choose the music this time.

And Barry Clark isn't a Brit?

[jonkka]

jonkka - I suppose you prefer people dressing up as monsters and singing death metal do you! :P

I prefer people behaving like that to be sent out from this country - song contest win is an efficient way to that... :D

[Tomi]

Barry Clark choose the music this time.

About this Barry Clark, is he someone with much money too?

[consti]

Villagra has a shared stage win on SS3? :eek:

he was one minute slower ;)

[Tom206wrc]

Splits frozen again... :(

[Mr Lopez]

jonkka - I suppose you prefer people dressing up as monsters and singing death metal do you! :P

my friend, you took the words right out of my mouth....

[jonkka]

he was one minute slower ;)

Yes, on Vysledky but on wrc.com he has a shared stage win with Latvala. I wonder, pigs must fly next...

[Roy]

Villagra has a shared stage win on SS3? :eek:

Stupid comp. at wrc.com vysledky-rally.cz gives him 13th at ss3

[pettersolberg29]

I prefer people behaving like that to be sent out from this country - song contest win is an efficient way to that... :D


Just a shame that the UK entry didn't win if it meant he'd be thrown out! :D

[Roy]

And Barry Clark isn't a Brit?

Does I say he is not?

[jonkka]

Just a shame that the UK entry didn't win if it meant he'd be thrown out! :D

I am not familiar with that one, I don't follow silly song contests... Unless they start singing naked

[pettersolberg29]

Trust me - you wouldn't want to see UK entry naked!

[Viking]

I am not familiar with that one, I don't follow silly song contests... Unless they start singing naked

I have been watching The Dudesons, so I know how you lot are behaving :D

[jonkka]

Trust me - you wouldn't want to see UK entry naked!

Nothing upsets me any more. I've seen Matthew Wilson drive.

[Viktory]

Anyone know what's happened to PG Andersson? Car faulty or mistake?

or is it the website that is weird?

[jonkka]

I have been watching The Dudesons, so I know how you lot are behaving :D

The Dudesons? If they are who I think they are, I have as little to do with them as I do with the monster rockers... Would you care to explain why you watched that silliness?

[pettersolberg29]

Random stat: Matt Wilson has the third lowest retirement/DNF ratio with only 4 retirements from 42 rallies - impressive if he had any pace to add to it!
Sordo is also a surprsing 7th lowest with only 7 out of 52.

[jonkka]

Anyone know what's happened to PG Andersson? Car faulty or mistake?

What do you mean "happened", he's 9th overall?

[N.O.T]

Loeb finished the stage...

[jonkka]

Random stat: Matt Wilson has the third lowest retirement/DNF ratio with only 4 retirements from 42 rallies - impressive if he had any pace to add to it!
Sordo is also a surprsing 7th lowest with only 7 out of 52.

You've been reading my stats, eh? :)

Yes, Matt is sort of reliable guy. Not the fastest but hey, one can't have everything, can you?

[N.O.T]

Hirvonen seems to follow tactics...latvala doesn't seem so....

[jonkka]

Loeb finished the stage...

And now, the tactics... ?

[Viktory]

What do you mean "happened", he's 9th overall?

Oh right, must be the crappy website then, when I looked up SS8 times he wasn't on it, now he's there, but times are weird :s

[I am evil Homer]

What happened to PG is "Suzuki"

[Tom206wrc]

What does that mean Sandell final result on SS8 ??? :confused:



Edit: it's corrected ;)

[pettersolberg29]

Yes jonkka - I must reccomend juwra.com for all your WRC statistical needs!

[Mr Lopez]

What happened to PG is "Suzuki"


haha. the monster, thats what happened

[jonkka]

Yes jonkka - I must reccomend juwra.com for all your WRC statistical needs!

Well, it was born out of my statistical needs :)

[A.F.F.]

Trust me - you wouldn't want to see UK entry naked!

When it comes to Eurovision, many countries have chosen that strategy. I mean, they weren't completely naked but very close. About UK entry this year, I couldn't agree more :D

[jonkka]

HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J. (st. č. 3) Zpomalil před cílem / Slowed down before finish.

Do I need say more? :(

[N.O.T]

You've been reading my stats, eh? :)

Yes, Matt is sort of reliable guy. Not the fastest but hey, one can't have everything, can you?

does using superally count as a retirememnt ????

[A.F.F.]

Yes jonkka - I must reccomend juwra.com for all your WRC statistical needs!

Jonkka = juwra.com

[jonkka]

does using superally count as a retirememnt ????

No (in juwra.com).
http://www.juwra.com/statistics_conventions.html

[pettersolberg29]

Tactics!

[jonkka]

Jonkka = juwra.com

Hey, I am a lot more than a crappy site! :D

I hope

[Viking]

The Dudesons? If they are who I think they are, I have as little to do with them as I do with the monster rockers... Would you care to explain why you watched that silliness?

Sorry, I thought it gave an realistic view of Finnish country life :D

[pettersolberg29]

I know juwra.com is jonkka's site - I was just making sure jonkka knew I was taking to him!

[jonkka]

Sorry, I thought it gave an realistic view of Finnish country life :D

What would I know, I am an urban cat.

[N.O.T]

Tactics from both ford kids....

[jonkka]

Latvala did the same tactical move as well...

[jonkka]

Frustrating, Leg 1 is worth nothing...

[N.O.T]

and this is a perfect demonstartion by the ford team to learn the difference between a rally driver and a scared sick dog.....

[xavier]

You've been reading my stats, eh? :)

Yes, Matt is sort of reliable guy. Not the fastest but hey, one can't have everything, can you?

But since Super Rally the DNF stats are totaly baised: Atkinson 10th lowest retirement ratio almost as good as Loeb?

Jonkka: It would be nice to have the stats without Super Rally rule on that very nice site of yours

[cosmicpanda]

Frustrating, Leg 1 is worth nothing...

It would be without SuperRally, as then you would have to treat it with care or face retirement.

I do enjoy the tactics though, as it means that there's more to rally than just sprinting through stages.

[Mr Lopez]

wilson 2nd quickest at midpoint.....

[A.F.F.]

What would I know, I am an urban cat.

No you're not. You're from Vantaa as I am. We're merely suburban kittens.

[Mauri A]

and this is a perfect demonstartion by the ford team to learn the difference between a rally driver and a scared sick dog.....
Fine, N.O.T is back with his dogs.

[pettersolberg29]

This could be a stage win for Wilson?!

[jonkka]

But since Super Rally the DNF stats are totaly baised: Atkinson 10th lowest retirement ratio almost as good as Loeb?

Jonkka: It would be nice to have the stats without Super Rally rule on that very nice site of yours

I understand your feelings and to a degree I agree but no can do, stats are based on official rules and official rules allow retired crews to rejoin. Just this week I got an e-mail from a guy who thought that having all time points scorers in one list even if there have been 20 points for a win and now it's 10 points, which makes comparison difficult. He suggested an adjusted points list but it's the same principle.

[Gard]

Galli slowed too?

[N.O.T]

I do enjoy the tactics though, as it means that there's more to rally than just sprinting through stages.

me too... there is nothing better than wait in a stage and see drivers cruising through it just to enjoy the tactics....... who needs speed and driving on the limit when you can have tactics ????

[Tomi]

This tactic stuff is pathetic, maybe they should start to wash the roads before the events.

[pettersolberg29]

Henning wins!

Perfect for Ford - Loeb sweeps, Henning sweeps a bit, JML, Mikko and Gigi get clean road!

[jonkka]

No you're not. You're from Vantaa as I am. We're merely suburban kittens.

How do you know that? Are you my wife's secret lover? A-ha...

Me, a kitten? Nah...

[N.O.T]

I think the old system was far better....the leader had a maximum 3 stage disadvantage which wasn;t that bad....

[Roy]

All Ford are slowdown except Solberg. Very good tactics! Wilson for a stage win! Ford M1 and M2 drivers are now very close to Loeb. I sign for 1-2-3-4 for Ford on sunday. :bounce:

[COVENANT]

will the ford guys slow down again in the tarmac rallies ?
there are three rallies more in tarmac
and we will see these guys there
what tactic will follow

[jonkka]

Galli slowed too?

Yes. Leg 1 result looks quite different than overall standings after SS8...

[Halvis]

Must be mixed feeling for Henning, on one hand nice with a stage victory, but he did it with too much - 1.3 seconds to be precise.

This must be the closest rally after day 1 ever, 4 first separated by only 2.2 secs, and 5 within 6.9 sec!

[pettersolberg29]

Top 5 separated by less than 7 seconds!

[RS]

This tactic stuff is pathetic, maybe they should start to wash the roads before the events.

Absoloutely agree. The rule is stupid but I hate Ford's tactics, so cowardly. I hope Loeb wins again.

[White Sauron]

Well, if it rains midnight, Fords guys will be in trouble with such a tactics)))

[Viking]

4 drivers in 2 seconds, damn this is close :) impressed by their timing!

[N.O.T]

the thing is.....Loeb wil be the sweeper all day tommorow...and with a 30kms stage on sunday the fords kids can do this thing all over again...

the World Tactics Championship is brought to you by BP Ultimate Ford Team...thanks for watching.....

[jonkka]

Reminds me of the shuffle that was common in Australia and Cyprus of the early 2000s.

[Tomi]

will the ford guys slow down again in the tarmac rallies ?
there are three rallies more in tarmac
and we will see these guys there
what tactic will follow

Its not only the ford guys who play tactics, not so long time ago Loeb let Sordo first on the road too.

[Gard]

Galli should perhaps have sloved a little bit less and Henning should be pretty popular in the Ford team now. Getting a second a head of JML. Then again getting in excatly behind Seb

[Mirek]

What a great comedy they play out there in Turkey. A little bit too funy for a World champioship.

[COVENANT]

Its not only the ford guys who play tactics, not so long time ago Loeb let Sordo first on the road too.

can you remind me the rally which happens this
because i cannot remember.
the fords does the same thing third time this year

Jordan , sardinia and now in turkey

[N.O.T]

Its not only the ford guys who play tactics, not so long time ago Loeb let Sordo first on the road too.

and also hirvonen about half a month behind......while he could easily do the same thing...

[jonkka]

Now Andersson is in problems (Viking?)

[xavier]

the thing is.....Loeb wil be the sweeper all day tommorow...and with a 30kms stage on sunday the fords kids can do this thing all over again...

the World Tactics Championship is brought to you by BP Ultimate Ford Team...thanks for watching.....


You cannot blame Ford for that... They adapt the best they can to the rule like anyone else.

The FIA is to blame for reintroducing that rule... I hope they remove it next year, or even better at mid season!

[N.O.T]

You cannot blame Ford for that... They adapt the best they can to the rule like anyone else.

The FIA is to blame for reintroducing that rule... I hope they remove it next year, or even better at mid season!

yes...but Loeb didn;t use this rule so far to his advantage....it really says something...

[A.F.F.]

You cannot blame Ford for that... They adapt the best they can to the rule like anyone else.

The FIA is to blame for reintroducing that rule... I hope they remove it next year, or even better at mid season!

:up:

Yet, shame on Mikko :down:

[Mirek]

When we look at such a uselles first leg and cutting costs, why not to cancel first leg at all? :D

[Tomi]

can you remind me the rally which happens this
because i cannot remember.
the fords does the same thing third time this year

Jordan , sardinia and now in turkey

i think it was day 1 in jordan.

[COVENANT]

yes...but Loeb didn;t use this rule so far to his advantage....it really says something...

i agree my friend that's why Loeb will win again the championship this year
because the only thing he knows is to rallying and not playing
games

[DonJippo]

Yet, shame on Mikko :down:

If the boss says slow down then you slow down...

[COVENANT]

i think it was day 1 in jordan.

you are wrong my friend

in Jordan was the ford in the second day
who played this game with Sordo when Loeb has been retired
the first day Loeb was in front of Sordo in starting order and he could not know
his teammate times
and also was faster than him in all second loop stages.

[Tom206wrc]

Fantastic fight between Aigner, Sandell and Nittel on this rally in PWRC !!!! :D

Tomorrow that looks promising(let's hope the S2000 has reliability now) ;)

[Daniel]

the thing is.....Loeb wil be the sweeper all day tommorow...and with a 30kms stage on sunday the fords kids can do this thing all over again...

the World Tactics Championship is brought to you by BP Ultimate Ford Team...thanks for watching.....

Agree with you my friend..... we need a sensible system where the drivers choose their position and don't play games. Games like this are just stupid and spoil the sport. I hope Petter takes advantage of his road position and the Fords have troubles. Are the Focii so sh1t that they need 4 of them to beat one Citroen driven by an unkempt Frenchman?

[Daniel]

How do you know that? Are you my wife's secret lover? A-ha...

Me, a kitten? Nah...

You should have told him that his wife must have told him. You Finns need to work on your insults :p

[Karukera]

If the boss says slow down then you slow down...


And what if the Boss said let's act like real rallymen ?

It blatlantly shows now how desperate they are to win a rally.

I strongly wish them Ford Kebab boys to win this one if they don't want to be ridiculed for the rest of the season. :s tare:

[Tomi]

Agree with you my friend..... we need a sensible system where the drivers choose their position and don't play games. Games like this are just stupid and spoil the sport. I hope Petter takes advantage of his road position and the Fords have troubles. Are the Focii so sh1t that they need 4 of them to beat one Citroen driven by an unkempt Frenchman?

That would be the best way after each day the 15 first for instance could choose the starting position, leading guy choose first.

[Brother John]

This tactic stuff is pathetic, maybe they should start to wash the roads before the events.

I have none problem with the tactic´s. at football you see nothing else then tactics. :p :D ;)

[Daniel]

That would be the best way after each day the 15 first for instance could choose the starting position, leading guy choose first.
Yup. Sadly some people think Loeb's dominance is seen by some as a problem. Personally I think if he's that good then he should win most of the rallies.

[Daniel]

I have none problem with the tactic´s. at football you see nothing else then tactics. :p :D ;)
Football is boring.

[Tomi]

I have none problem with the tactic´s. at football you see nothing else then tactics. :p :D ;)

Lol

[Brother John]

Yup. Sadly some people think Loeb's dominance is seen by some as a problem. Personally I think if he's that good then he should win most of the rallies.

He is not dominant, he misses those special tyres from Michelin (Goodrich or sommethink like that). Next year all driving the same car and you can forget Loeb as the best driver ever. :p :s mokin: :p :

[Tomi]

Yup. Sadly some people think Loeb's dominance is seen by some as a problem. Personally I think if he's that good then he should win most of the rallies.

Same here, in sport also in motorsport it has always been that someone dominate, before it was Kankku, Sainz, Tommi, Bosse, and now Loeb, I dont get why make stupid rules to try not to let the talented ones shine, it takes only a few years anyway, sofar it has always came someone faster than the past champ.

[Kakuke]

My pics: http://www.motorsport.ee/?id=gallery&n=716

[pantealex]

In quattro era (back in 80´s) rally leader allways starts first saturdays and sundays, nobody was talking sweeping!

[Daniel]

He is not dominant, he misses those special tyres from Michelin (Goodrich or sommethink like that). Next year all driving the same car and you can forget Loeb as the best driver ever. :p :s mokin: :p :

Bah! Rubbish :) Loeb's talent goes a lot further than just pure car control and so on.... Remember he went to Le Mans and did well against the Audi's in a car that was nowhere near the level of the Audi's. 2nd in a Pescarolo is as good as a win.


Same here, in sport also in motorsport it has always been that someone dominate, before it was Kankku, Sainz, Tommi, Bosse, and now Loeb, I dont get why make stupid rules to try not to let the talented ones shine, it takes only a few years anyway, sofar it has always came someone faster than the past champ.

Exactly. It's the others fault for not being good enough to challenge him. Perhaps Latvala will be at that level in a year or two but Loeb is simply the best driver out there at the moment.

Perhaps I'm a bit of an old soul inside but I don't see these tactics as part of the sport. But I see them more as making the sport seem more like a game.

If Ford need 4 cars to challenge Loeb then perhaps they suck. I think Loeb should play their game and slow down to the point where Mikko, Galli, Henning and Latvala were only a few seconds in front of Petter and see how they like those apples.

[Tomi]

In quattro era (back in 80´s) rally leader allways starts first saturdays and sundays, nobody was talking sweeping!

Thats true, but also the margins between different cars was bigger i think than today, also there was other problems then, for instance too many drivers for the quattro, all the drivers did not get the same amount of events, the one who got most did have an advantage.

[COD]

Well it's not pretty, but Ford is just being smart. If they think that's the way to win, then of course they should do it. Not that I like it.

Someone referred to the 80's and early 90's, that there was no talk about sweeping. I agree to a certain extent, but the fact is, that differences were also pretty huge then.

[Daniel]

Well it's not pretty, but Ford is just being smart. If they think that's the way to win, then of course they should do it. Not that I like it.

Someone referred to the 80's and early 90's, that there was no talk about sweeping. I agree to a certain extent, but the fact is, that differences were also pretty huge then.

I think the FIA needs to look at what was different back in the 80's and 90's and see if perhaps some of it can apply to modern rallies. Longer routes and less repeated stages would be a start.

[Viking]

Well I think Loeb isn’t the biggest looser in this game, if Mikko had gone flat out and won last two stages he could be 35-40sec in front tomorrow. I don’t think Loeb would had gained that being 2nd.

[Tomi]

I think the FIA needs to look at what was different back in the 80's and 90's and see if perhaps some of it can apply to modern rallies. Longer routes and less repeated stages would be a start.

Yes it would, but the media has too much to say nowdays i belive, one thing that is strange also today is that when the driver comes to the stage finish, he start telling about all the problem he has with the car kind of giving the advantage to your competitors, in the past the drivers was smarter and kept it to them self or inside the team.

[Daniel]

Yes it would, but the media has too much to say nowdays i belive, one thing that is strange also today is that when the driver comes to the stage finish, he start telling about all the problem he has with the car kind of giving the advantage to your competitors, in the past the drivers was smarter and kept it to them self or inside the team.

Very true. I prefer the old Juha interview style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BECXT8Mxdo

Never ceases to make me laugh :)

[Viking]

And drivers did not do mistakes before inboard cams came along :)

[Roy]

About this Barry Clark, is he someone with much money too?

He is winner of the FSTi Championship 2007. He was sponsored in 2006 and 2007 by Stobart. Now en then sponsored by another companies.

http://www.clarkrallysport.com/sponsors.asp

[Tomi]

He is winner of the FSTi Championship 2007.

http://www.clarkrallysport.com/sponsors.asp

No wonder why he is so fast then.

[dimviii]

good evening guys!!
the real rally is in pwrc.
like the pace of Galli so far
pitty for Aava,i d like to see him again in a good pace like Acropolis.

@Tom
Aigner for pwrc :p :

@NOT
the real sick dog of the rally is the speed of s14 even without problems.
n14 not enough even for 2 ss.

[jparker]

Question. Do we have an winner so far this year who played start position tactics?

[Ghostwalker]

My pics: http://www.motorsport.ee/?id=gallery&n=716

Great pics kakuke!!

[dimviii]

+1000

[urabus-denoS2000]

I just came home...
So the first 4 cars in 2,7 seconds...Fantastic!!!

[Daniel]

I just came home...
So the first 4 cars in 2,7 seconds...Fantastic!!!
You do realise it's all down to tactics don't you?

[cut the b.s.]

Yup. Sadly some people think Loeb's dominance is seen by some as a problem. Personally I think if he's that good then he should win most of the rallies.

I guess Loeb should see it as the ultimate complament that the rules have been changed just to try and curb his edge!

Cant wait for the tar events till we all see who can really drive :-)

[urabus-denoS2000]

You do realise it's all down to tactics don't you?

Well no actually,just came in...

[N.O.T]

the thing about this rule is not that it favours one driver or the other...at the end of the day drivers will do anything to win the title thats within the rules so no blame to them....the thing is the sport which is not in its highest moment at the time is brought into shame by such actions....the sole solution is the one i ve been saying from the start...


the sport should leave the FIA to care about the oversized cart championship and create a new organisation body....

[Halvis]

Well I think Loeb isn’t the biggest looser in this game, if Mikko had gone flat out and won last two stages he could be 35-40sec in front tomorrow. I don’t think Loeb would had gained that being 2nd.

Agree, it seems a little strange that they throw away that amount of secs, what if they get a puncture on ss2 tomorrow, then they have no chance.

I get associations to Tour de France or other bicycle races where 2-3 riders has gotten away with a break early on, and when the field starts to gain on them towards the end of the stage, they stop riding and instead start looking over their shoulders, clearly thinking "don't they come now?". I've seen many times people doing this getting caught on the last few hundred meters, when they clearly could have won if they concentrated of winning!

Sorry about mixing bicycling into here, but this is how I look at it. If the Fords had gone flat out they could have had 25-30 secs lead into day 2 - and as earlier said, there are only 2 new stages tomorrow.

[Daniel]

Agree, it seems a little strange that they throw away that amount of secs, what if they get a puncture on ss2 tomorrow, then they have no chance.

I get associations to Tour de France or other bicycle races where 2-3 riders has gotten away with a break early on, and when the field starts to gain on them towards the end of the stage, they stop riding and instead start looking over their shoulders, clearly thinking "don't they come now?". I've seen many times people doing this getting caught on the last few hundred meters, when they clearly could have won if they concentrated of winning!

Sorry about mixing bicycling into here, but this is how I look at it. If the Fords had gone flat out they could have had 25-30 secs lead into day 2 - and as earlier said, there are only 2 new stages tomorrow.

I agree completely......

[White Sauron]

What sense in making own life more difficult?
What is easier - to drive flat out, risking to lose everything, in a bid to have a 30-sec gap that can be lost anyway by a little mistake ot problem?
Or driving cautiously and playing safe tactics game in a bid to build the gap tomorrow on a cleaner line with less possibility of mistake?
We have an idiom "The clever one won't go up the hill, he will come around it". There's the same thing. If they have more chances of winning by playing tactical games, than why should they take risks going flat out, if the result's the same? You see? Rallying is not the chess, you have to think there.

[GruppoB]

I see Ford trying everything within the rules to beat Loeb and GOOD FOR THEM.

[Halvis]

What sense in making own life more difficult?
What is easier - to drive flat out, risking to lose everything, in a bid to have a 30-sec gap that can be lost anyway by a little mistake ot problem?
Or driving cautiously and playing safe tactics game in a bid to build the gap tomorrow on a cleaner line with less possibility of mistake?
We have an idiom "The clever one won't go up the hill, he will come around it". There's the same thing. If they have more chances of winning by playing tactical games, than why should they take risks going flat out, if the result's the same? You see? Rallying is not the chess, you have to think there.

You forget something cruical here, they still have to go flat out tomorrow - on all stages. This was only one stage where they decided to throw away all they had gained.

But hey, we'll see tomorrow how it goes.

[White Sauron]

You forget something cruical here, they still have to go flat out tomorrow - on all stages. This was only one stage where they decided to throw away all they had gained.

But hey, we'll see tomorrow how it goes.

Agree. But anyway, Jari-Matti was right at the press-conference: on a clean line he's the fastest driver over there. But he doesn't have enough skills and experience yet to beat Loeb being first driver on the road. Than why should he give him such an advantage if he can drive in the poisition which he knows benefits him?

[jonkka]

You should have told him that his wife must have told him. You Finns need to work on your insults :p

That would have been a compliment, not an insult. For me to even take notice of his wife would mean she'd be of angelic beauty. Besides, we finns do not insult each others... we just have warped sense of humor... :hmph:

[Viking]

Agree. But anyway, Jari-Matti was right at the press-conference: on a clean line he's the fastest driver over there. But he doesn't have enough skills and experience yet to beat Loeb being first driver on the road. Than why should he give him such an advantage if he can drive in the poisition which he knows benefits him?

I am hoping Henning is right "I will try and follow Sebs lines, beacause I know Jari-Matti dont follow them so he will have a lot of gravel" :D

[A.F.F.]

Yiepee-cay-yee, what a rally :dozey:

This is exactly what I didn't order for this year :down:

So we get a proper rallying on sunday.... great.

[Tomi]

Agree. But anyway, Jari-Matti was right at the press-conference: on a clean line he's the fastest driver over there. But he doesn't have enough skills and experience yet to beat Loeb being first driver on the road. Than why should he give him such an advantage if he can drive in the poisition which he knows benefits him?

from the tv interview you could see that he did not like it at all, actually he was ashame.

[A.F.F.]

from the tv interview you could see that he did not like it at all, actually he was ashame.

However Mikko wasn't ashamed at all. Just for the record.

[Tomi]

However Mikko wasn't ashamed at all. Just for the record.

yes, thats true.

[DonJippo]

However Mikko wasn't ashamed at all. Just for the record.

No reason to be ashamed, you play the game by the rules. If you don't like it don't blame the players blame the rule maker.

[A.F.F.]

Yes yes, I got your point for the second time. Not blaming Mikko nor Ford. I still don't have to like what they did though. Makes them very Richard Burns-like.

[duff]

Bah! the Tactics are back :(

I hope those who thought that the rule change would only affect rallies like Australia can see what a difference they will make to most dry gravel rallies in the championship now.

This certainly won't be the last ime this year that we see cars slowing down for road position.

[Daniel]

Yes yes, I got your point for the second time. Not blaming Mikko nor Ford. I still don't have to like what they did though. Makes them very Richard Burns-like.

Seems Quesnel agrees with you AFF :)

http://wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=101&id=1628&desc=Citroen Team boss critical of Ford’s tactical game

You have to copy the whole link and paste it into your browser.


I understand that Malcolm needs to win sometimes,” he concluded.

:laugh:

Sure it's all above board and so on. But is it good sportsmanship? Not really. The Ford drivers should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps they should ask themselves who they want to be? A driver? Or a pawn in a game of chess.

[bda]

The Ford drivers should be ashamed of themselves. Perhaps they should ask themselves who they want to be? A driver? Or a pawn in a game of chess.

I think you will find every driver in the field wants to be in a factory team. That means you do as you are told. No arguments. If that doesn't agree with your sense of fair play then step aside, there are plenty of others ready to take your place.

The sponsors don't put their money up just to be good sports. It's usually what they want as their corporate image but.... They still want results.

[Helstar]

Ready guys ? :p

[Daniel]

I think you will find every driver in the field wants to be in a factory team. That means you do as you are told. No arguments. If that doesn't agree with your sense of fair play then step aside, there are plenty of others ready to take your place.

The sponsors don't put their money up just to be good sports. It's usually what they want as their corporate image but.... They still want results.

Thing is we're not sponsors. So we see it as a sport. In a sport this sort of thing is frowned upon.

[Helstar]

Nice wrc.com works, Loeb first split is there :D

[bda]

Thing is we're not sponsors. So we see it as a sport. In a sport this sort of thing is frowned upon.

I agree Daniel. Personally I prefer to see drivers pushing to be fastest in order to get the best road position. We know this system also had it's drawbacks but it would seem to be the lesser of two evils to me.

You can't blame the drivers for doing their job though. They are doing what they love, and they want to keep doing it. The teams have more responsiblity for the blame here. But the real criticism needs to be leveled at the rule makers.

[White Sauron]

Haha, seems that Loeb's road position turns out to be an advantage!)))
Is it wet on the stage or what?

[Daniel]

I agree Daniel. Personally I prefer to see drivers pushing to be fastest in order to get the best road position. We know this system also had it's drawbacks but it would seem to be the lesser of two evils to me.

You can't blame the drivers for doing their job though. They are doing what they love, and they want to keep doing it. The teams have more responsiblity for the blame here. But the real criticism needs to be leveled at the rule makers.

Of course :) But the drivers are there carrying out these orders quite happily. Personally if it were me I'd want to prove myself as a driver who can lead from the front. If Mikko or JML win this rally it proves only that Ford can play tactics better than Citroen. But if you can lead from the front and win when the conditions are less than ideal then that proves something far more important :)

[Daniel]

Haha, seems that Loeb's road position turns out to be an advantage!)))
Is it wet on the stage or what?
Well this is a rerun of a stage from yesterday. So not as much loose gravel.

[Helstar]

I think Loeb is going totally flat-out too

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Hennig Solberg +3.3 to Loeb on first split...

[Daniel]

Mikko fastest so far on first split.

[White Sauron]

C'mon, nobody balmed Ferrari for winning due to their brilliant pit-stop strategies! But it's just the same - they won so many races by tactics, not on the circuit. And yet those victories were called brilliant! Tactics now is an important part of the game, we must accept this and applaud to those (Fords) who use it effectively!

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Hirvonen -0.8 to Loeb.... on first split

[Daniel]

C'mon, nobody balmed Ferrari for winning due to their brilliant pit-stop strategies! But it's just the same - they won so many races by tactics, not on the circuit. And yet those victories were called brilliant! Tactics now is an important part of the game, we must accept this and applaud to those (Fords) who use it effectively!

Yes but that's a totally different type of strategy.

[Helstar]

lol Latvala +0.1 overall

[White Sauron]

Yes but that's a totally different type of strategy.

sorry, I don't see the difference.

[bda]

Of course :) But the drivers are there carrying out these orders quite happily. Personally if it were me I'd want to prove myself as a driver who can lead from the front. If Mikko or JML win this rally it proves only that Ford can play tactics better than Citroen. But if you can lead from the front and win when the conditions are less than ideal then that proves something far more important :)

Your a better man than me then. If I were a young driver I would be playing my part in the team. Sexual favours aside, I would be doing as I was told if I were in their position.
After all, we are not talking world champions with a bit of sway with the team & sponsors here. These guys have worked incredibly hard to be where they are and I'm sure they would prefer to win the old fashioned way. It's not a perfect world.

[jonkka]

Road position doesn't seem to have such a big effect, they are all very close to each others. :eek:

[Daniel]

sorry, I don't see the difference.
In F1 your pit strategy IS part of the race. You do know that in F1 pitstops happen during the race don't you?

[Helstar]

Galli +2.5 overall

Hirvonen going to be about +5 sec

it's going to be so exciting xD

[Daniel]

Road position doesn't seem to have such a big effect, they are all very close to each others. :eek:
This is a repeat stage from yesterday. No indication of how much road position helps.

[Daniel]

Galli +2.5 overall

Hirvonen going to be about +5 sec

it's going to be so exciting xD
As exciting as watching a race controlled by Max and Bernie where you can see the strings attached to the cars :p

[jonkka]

sorry, I don't see the difference.

Slowing down while the other guy can't react doesn't require a lot of tactical skill. The only skill involved is in the decision making, will it benefit me/us more tomorrow if we lose this-and-this much today?

[Viking]

Good morning! have some of you been up all night arguing about tactics? :)

[White Sauron]

In F1 your pit strategy IS part of the race. You do know that in F1 pitstops happen during the race don't you?

In WRC now start position is also the part of the game.

[White Sauron]

Nobody seems to notice how Subaru is slow once again!! Considering Petter's road position he's losing TOO much, IMHO

[jonkka]

Good morning! have some of you been up all night arguing about tactics? :)

They talk about it as if it'd be something new under the sun... :eek:

[Helstar]

As exciting as watching a race controlled by Max and Bernie where you can see the strings attached to the cars :p
There is no more strategy from today ... so that's why it's exciting :p

Mikko +2.9 what a time !

[jonkka]

No splits after Sordo?

[jonkka]

Now there are... good...

[Daniel]

There is no more strategy from today ... so that's why it's exciting :p

Well we'll see. If the Fords don't have enough of a lead at the end of the day you'll see them dropping back on the last stage.....

It always happens the same. The Fords finish behind Loeb to take advantage of road position on day 2, they make some gains in the morning because of the position then on the reruns Loeb beats them and the same lame stuff happens on day 3 and Loeb generally wins unless Rautenbach crashes into him.

Clearly the rules don't generally have an effect on who wins the rally. All they do is spoil the show on the last stage of the day.

Daniel's rally tip of the day: If you don't want to see boring lame tactics don't go to the last stage of day 1 or 2 on a dry gravel rally.

[jparker]

Am I the only one who thinks the stages are due to be cleaned once again. That's what few drivers said anyway.

[Helstar]

Go go Andersson nice time with the Suzuki, this guy rocks trust me :p

SS11 started, time to see if sweeping is really hard as it seems, it's the first passage in Silyon

[jacko]

It's clear Loeb is the dominator like in 2005 and 2006, Ford won't win any rally pure by themselfs, Sweden and Finnland and UK perhaps in 2008.
That's why to bring in those tactics to give themselfs hope. But Loeb is now extra motivated to win this rally too by this tactics moves by Ford and will brake their last hopes.

I think it will be next year Loeb winning strike will finally be broken as there's a more experience Latvala who's got the speed, hopelfully a Galli again with a Ford, Duval with a Ford, Hirvonen as one of the top-drivers, maybe Subaru boys in the front and also Sordo and Aava with more experience. Should be pretty okay next year :)

I've been saying it for years: why don't you let start those drivers first on the road who didn't made the end on day 1 (or 2 >>> for day 3).
And for the hard gravel rounds: bring in at least one WRCar as a zero car driven by a good unemployed driver to clean the road a bit extra. These costs must paid by all the teams.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

times of ss10:

1. HIRVONEN M. / LEHTINEN J.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 11:57.3 00:00.0 00:00.0
2. LATVALA J.-M. / ANTTILA M.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 12:00.2 00:02.9 00:02.9
3. LOEB S. / ELENA D.
CITROËN C4 WRC A8 12:01.2 00:03.9 00:01.0
4. GALLI G. / BERNACCHINI G.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 12:01.5 00:04.2 00:00.3
5. SORDO D. / MARTÍ M.
CITROËN C4 WRC A8 12:03.4 00:06.1 00:01.9
6. SOLBERG P. / MILLS P.
SUBARU Impreza WRC 08 A8 12:11.3 00:14.0 00:07.9
7. ANDERSSON P.-G. / ANDERSSON J.
SUZUKI SX4 WRC A8 12:17.3 00:20.0 00:06.0
8. SOLBERG H. / MENKERUD C.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 12:20.4 00:23.1 00:03.1
9. WILSON M. / MARTIN S.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 12:23.4 00:26.1 00:03.0
10. GARDEMEISTER T. / TUOMINEN T.
SUZUKI SX4 WRC A8 12:23.6 00:26.3 00:00.2
11. VILLAGRA F. / PÉREZ COMPANC J.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 12:27.3 00:30.0 00:03.7
12. RAUTENBACH C. / SENIOR D.
CITROËN C4 WRC A8 12:27.6 00:30.3 00:00.3 13.
13. CLARK B. / NAGLE P.
FORD Focus RS WRC 07 A8 12:52.4 00:55.1 00:24.8

[Daniel]

And for the hard gravel rounds: bring in at least one WRCar as a zero car driven by a good unemployed driver to clean the road a bit extra. These costs must paid by all the teams.

They should employ Garde for this job in a Citroen or a Focus. He'd get better results than in the SX4.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

9 tenths for Latvala in the first split....

[CABAIO E'LONA]

latvala is the new leader of the rally ...

[Helstar]

Ok sweeping roads is hard now we know :p (I didn't have any doubts anyway, do you ?)

[jonkka]

latvala is the new leader of the rally ...

Seems that Mikko will get past him and be the leader...

[Daniel]

latvala is the new leader of the rally ...

Errr no he's not

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Seems that Mikko will get past him and be the leader...

-6.7 for J M in the 3º split... he comes very fast ...

[Daniel]

Ok sweeping roads is hard now we know :p (I didn't have any doubts anyway, do you ?)
Only this stage and another where Loeb is the first driver on an unswept stage so we'll see what happens. I don't see the Fords stretching out much of a lead. Loeb will make up some time on the later stages. There's 70km of repeated stages for Loeb to pull the Fords back in. My guess is that unless something major happens and there is a retirement tha Loeb will be leading come the evening. Perhaps Ford will triumph tomorrow who knows. All I know if that it took 4 Focii to better Seb and I think that's embarassing for Ford when you think about it.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

-10.4 for Mikko!!!

[Kamikaze]

Daniel, we all konw now you don´t like Ford, and you don´t like the Game like it is today.

So, why do you watch it any lomger ???

[Tomi]

looks like latvala is holding back

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Loeb has lost a lot of time on this SS...

[Daniel]

Daniel, we all konw now you don´t like Ford, and you don´t like the Game like it is today.

So, why do you watch it any lomger ???
I don't have a problem with Ford. I just don't like what they're doing.

Personally I'm just watching hoping that Sebastien will embarass Ford yet again.

[Daniel]

Henning 11s behind Loeb.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Loeb: "I run flat out whole stage. Nothing else I should do. Just flat out. I can't change anything."

[jonkka]

Henning, being 2nd on the road, is faster then Petter who's sixth... :eek:

[Tomi]

yes henning is driving this stage very well

[Daniel]

Conrad into the lead of the rally! :p

[jonkka]

wrc.com has Rautenbach leading the rally...

[Kamikaze]

IPersonally I'm just watching hoping that Sebastien will embarass Ford yet again.

So please, just do it, and don´t tell aus all again and again and again and again that you don´t like it ! ;)

[Daniel]

So please, just do it, and don´t tell aus all again and again and again and again that you don´t like it ! ;)
No one's forcing you to read my posts :)

[John V]

Interesting info about tyres, Latvala's about 20 deg. hotter than Loeb's at finish

[Daniel]

Good time for Gigi :up: But Mikko will beat him :)

[jonkka]

Interesting info about tyres, Latvala's about 20 deg. hotter than Loeb's at finish

He has more grip due to cleaner road

EDIT: Then again, shouldn't Loeb's tyres heat up more due to wheelspin? Then again and again, Citroen has always been famous for it being easy to the tyres.

[Daniel]

Mikko through 16.6s quicker than Sebastien.

[leno]

good morning, how is the rally going?

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Hirvonen is the new leader in the rally.. :D ..

[jonkka]

Petter will drop to 7th - unless Sordo's downward trend on splits will continue

[Daniel]

Mikkelsen into the lead of the rally according to WRC.com

[jonkka]

Like that... problems for Sordo...

[jonkka]

Mikkelsen into the lead of the rally according to WRC.com

They like to promote young drivers... very nice of them... :eek:

[leno]

why are petter so slow? driving on safe mode?

[Daniel]

They like to promote young drivers... very nice of them... :eek:

Yes :p

[Tomi]

why are petter so slow? driving on safe mode?

somebody said yesterday that the roads dont fit the new subaru, too many corners, and too much uphill and downhill. :)

[jonkka]

somebody said yesterday that the roads dont fit the new subaru, too many corners, and too much uphill and downhill. :)

So, it's a drag racer?

[CABAIO E'LONA]

SORDO D. / MARTÍ M.Rear left tyre puncture. "There was stone in middle of the road. We lost lot of time after puncture."

[Helstar]

Sordo another puncture, he really is unlucky :S

[leno]

somebody said yesterday that the roads dont fit the new subaru, too many corners, and too much uphill and downhill. :)

car for circuit racing than?

[Tomi]

So, it's a drag racer?

according to atkinson its good on straight roads yes.

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Gardemeister stopped on stage