2023 WRC News & Rumours

[denkimi]

actually, it can help if you have to focus on the main driver: keeping the money, the spare parts, and the mechanics, avoiding reliability issues happened in the past 'cause with 5 cars to handle the work were less sharp.

If your business is selling and renting cars you're not going to save money by not doing that.
Greensmith driving was making m-sport a profit, otherwise he wouldn't have been there. So him not being there just hurts the team and thus also tanak.

[wyler]

If your business is selling and renting cars you're not going to save money by not doing that.
Greensmith driving was making m-sport a profit, otherwise he wouldn't have been there. So him not being there just hurts the team and thus also tanak.

there's not only the wrc team in this business. they have a bunch of sales in lesser categories (especially rally3 atm) and other disciplines (track, dakar). consider for '23 they have a paid rally2 program with 2/3 cars, a partially funded second drive and a full-paying third drive in wrc. greensmith 3rd car profit is just replaced by others paying more.
could they profit more with other rentals? maybe. would the management cost of those extra rentals worth the profit? presumably not.

add in the mix they decided to invest in a top driver, and probably the business model for '23 is to start with 3 cars in wrc and a wrc2 program.
the '22 model to have all the possible car rented, went bad with crash/reliability and finished with a 2 car round, and some renters not happy (huttunen i.e)

[J4MIE]

In case anyone hadn’t noticed, entries closed for Monte last week. There’s no chance for anyone extra to do it now.

[PLuto]

In case anyone hadn’t noticed, entries closed for Monte last week. There’s no chance for anyone extra to do it now.

Until the entry list is published, there is always a chance. Especially as the FIA entry system had some issues and started working only two days before closing date for entries...

[EstWRC]

Lappi: Toyota and Hyundai “pretty equal” after first i20 N WRC test

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/l...test/10413898/

[mknight]

I usually like your posts but this was a bit ridiculous...

Everything I wrote is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

2019
Mikkelsen just ahead of Ogier: Argentina, Finland Germany (not counting Sweden and Sardinia where Ogier crashed)
Ahead of Neuville: Sardinia, Finland (and Turkey where Neuville had an off).

Number of starts: 10
Number of rallies ahead of Ogier or Neuville : 4 (so about half of starts)

Original claim was that Mikkelsen can't finish just ahead of Ogier or Neuville, which was not correct.

------

In almost all years from 2017 to 2021 the drivers who didn't win lost some points to drivers from the team of the champion. That the points difference at the end of the year was bigger than that number doesn't mean it didn't matter. Drivers (and Ogier in particular) adapt their approach during last few rallies to secure title. While those who are behind risk more.

---
Anyway I agree that nobody is likely to hire a driver "just" to support the one going for title. Even Lappi at Citroen wasn't there just for that, he ended in that kind of role cause he was signed before Ogier.

But if MSport were looking for a driver to do that and try to get some good results otherwise then there is no doubt Mikkelsen and Loeb are the only choices right now. Loeb is seemingly more limited in number of starts he could do. After this year MSport are more than aware how result might look like when you only have one competetive driver who runs into technical issues or retires.

I am a bit perplexed by MSport right now. With Tanak and Loubet it seemed automatic that they would keep Greensmith. Now it's neither money (Greensmith) nor better results (Mikkelsen).
Did they ask for more money from Greensmith?

[mknight]

Lappi: Toyota and Hyundai “pretty equal” after first i20 N WRC test

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/l...test/10413898/

Only measure is stage times.

C3 had been great on all tests.

[AnttiL]

Everything I wrote is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

2019
Mikkelsen just ahead of Ogier: Argentina, Finland Germany (not counting Sweden and Sardinia where Ogier crashed)
Ahead of Neuville: Sardinia, Finland (and Turkey where Neuville had an off).

Number of starts: 10
Number of rallies ahead of Ogier or Neuville : 4 (so about half of starts)

Original claim was that Mikkelsen can't finish just ahead of Ogier or Neuville, which was not correct.

Germany was only because Ogier had a puncture. In fact, Neuville had a puncture as well but still finished ahead of Mikkelsen. I admit that Mikkelsen's best moments were the three other rallies, the last day fight against Evans in Sardinia, good pace in Finland on a Hyundai and runner-up in Argentina. But outside these it was not a good season, and 2018 was mostly not good either.

[seb_sh]

Everything I wrote is technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

2019
Mikkelsen just ahead of Ogier: Argentina, Finland Germany (not counting Sweden and Sardinia where Ogier crashed)
Ahead of Neuville: Sardinia, Finland (and Turkey where Neuville had an off).

Number of starts: 10
Number of rallies ahead of Ogier or Neuville : 4 (so about half of starts)

Original claim was that Mikkelsen can't finish just ahead of Ogier or Neuville, which was not correct.

------

In almost all years from 2017 to 2021 the drivers who didn't win lost some points to drivers from the team of the champion. That the points difference at the end of the year was bigger than that number doesn't mean it didn't matter. Drivers (and Ogier in particular) adapt their approach during last few rallies to secure title. While those who are behind risk more.

---
Anyway I agree that nobody is likely to hire a driver "just" to support the one going for title. Even Lappi at Citroen wasn't there just for that, he ended in that kind of role cause he was signed before Ogier.

But if MSport were looking for a driver to do that and try to get some good results otherwise then there is no doubt Mikkelsen and Loeb are the only choices right now. Loeb is seemingly more limited in number of starts he could do. After this year MSport are more than aware how result might look like when you only have one competetive driver who runs into technical issues or retires.

I am a bit perplexed by MSport right now. With Tanak and Loubet it seemed automatic that they would keep Greensmith. Now it's neither money (Greensmith) nor better results (Mikkelsen).
Did they ask for more money from Greensmith?

Germany was only because Ogier had a puncture. In fact, Neuville had a puncture as well but still finished ahead of Mikkelsen. I admit that Mikkelsen's best moments were the three other rallies, the last day fight against Evans in Sardinia, good pace in Finland on a Hyundai and runner-up in Argentina. But outside these it was not a good season, and 2018 was mostly not good either.

Short interlude, this is the kind of discussion i come here for, kudos to mknight for doing the research and posting some facts even if not everything backed him up. You guys are good people! I prepared something like a christmas present for you with which we can all have some fun with in 2023 in addition to but not replacing the pickems and crystall ball, I wanted to post it today but sadly my mother broke her ankle and needed to be operated on to set the bones right and I'm a bit stressed and busy about that. On the good side the surgeon said she can make a full recovery. I wish everyone happy holidays!

[Danny0405]

About the Mikkelsen/Loeb debate, I think a lot of M-Sport’s thoughts is about «*do one of them worth to spend money if they don’t bring a full budget?*»:

- about Loeb, the question is yes without a doubt on a pure performance point of view, considering what he showed in 2022; but his calendar is always an issue with his other contracts (and for sure, M-Sport wants also to grab the most possible from Red Bull).
Also, I’m clearly skeptical about Loeb in a manufacturer strategy and I think it was one of Loeb’s issues in Hyundai: IMO, he is still able to be fast sometimes but not as efficient as before (see his rookie mistake in Portugal), which is normal considering his age, and is not really adapted anymore to be a manufacturer driver; I think he is a good freelance driver (with some freedom) but doesn’t have anymore the manufacturer spirit and some of his behaviors in 2022 let me think this like in Safari and Greece (to sum up, he plays for win or nothing).
So I’m not sure at all he can bring some help to Tanak as a side driver, all the more if he does only very few stints.

- about Mikkelsen, the question is much more difficult to answer and I understand M-Sport decisions to say «*no money - no driver*» this year. Don’t forget his last RC1 rallye was in 2019 and he never drove in Rally1. In addition to that, I wouldn’t overrate too much his 2019 performance because as I said before (comparing to Evans’ 2019 season for example), a part of it is clearly explained by road position with an excellent strategy by Adamo (let’s recognize it here) about which rallies to miss. If we take a close look on his best performances (top5) in 2019:
Sweden (4th), he was in the last ones to start even if it’s not the place it counts most
Argentina (2nd): last RC1 one to start and was only good in the afternoon of the second leg
Sardinia (3rd): probably 7th or 8th in the road and only good on the last day
Finland (4th): 7th on the road and nothing special except the last day
Turkey (3rd): 5th on the road (with Evans out)
When you take this into account, it’s rather good but nothing sensational and it was more than 3 years ago now; it’s clearly a risky move to put a money on a driver like this when you haven’t big money for a manufacturer because I’m not sure at all he can bring any help to Tanak (when you see that for example, Sordo was a bit rusty in terms of speed).


About Greensmith, IMO, he was not paying the full cost for his season as he did some marketing for the team + was in the manufacturer team; probably he paid the direct costs but not the indirect (whereas Serderidis or Bertelli are paying all) or something like that, considering especially some of Millener’s interviews. So probably for the team between running a car with him or not running a car at all, the difference is not that big and as they want to focus a lot on Tanak, it may explain some of the disagreements between Greensmith and the team for 2023 (money + test days, quality of the car, ...).
I don’t think M-Sport is giving up clients (see Serderidis and probably Bertelli) for Rally1 but they want to focus on clients paying fully for the service given. Not impossible we see Greensmith back in 2024 if Tanak leaves and they come back to the former strategy.