WRC main class in 2025

[seb_sh]

The only way to make the sport cheaper is to have only 1 manufacturer. Then they can spend the minimum and still win.
As soon as you have multiple, the cost will always be what they think the value of winning is. So as long as toyota and Hyundai want to spend 100 million or so per season to be able to day they are wrc champions, the others will have to do the same to keep up.
Even if you would downsize to rally2 cars, they will still spend roughly the same amount if that is what it takes to win. But while doing so they will also make rally2 way more expensive than it is today if you want to be at the front.

It's all down to how much marketing value a sport has, and nothing else. That why nobody cares about football when women are playing.

Not true, WEC has BOP and Formula 1 has the cost cap. Both are super successful right now.

[becher]

Ok, now you're just making stuff up. I agree that any one F1 event probably has a bigger TV audience than all of Le Mans, and even the Australian F1 event had more spectators just earlier this year....

If you're being rude, at least read my complete post. Not my words, according to National Geographic.

[becher]

Not true, WEC has BOP and Formula 1 has the cost cap. Both are super successful right now.

Cost cap could work, rallying showed in the past 20 years that BOP is not needed.

But if a cost cap of lets say 20 million (Toyota is rumoured to be on 60 million currently isn't it?) would be enough to entice manufacturers is questionable.

[becher]

And still "people think renault built red bull cars" and they know lewis, vettel, alonso, raikkonen... Even button and max.
Ask people who won LeMans in 2018.
The answer is probably just "What?"
Theres no way LeMans is all of that mate.. its like indycar fans saying the Indy500 is the biggest and most important race of the planet or Nascar fans saying that the race in Charlotte (? I guess?) is the biggest race on the planet.

People know MERCEDES and Ferrari because of F1... People dont even know the word* "WEC". Sorry
Not trying to bashing u, mate. I dont speal english very well so that may have sounded rude. Not my intention

No problem, most around here aren't native speakers I think.

[denkimi]

Not true, WEC has BOP and Formula 1 has the cost cap. Both are super successful right now.

successful how? are the championships more equal now? have they made anything better in any way?

the only things cost caps do is make the teams do creative bookkeeping and outsource as much as possible to get around them. the big teams are still way ahead of the small ones and will always be.
i would like for it to be easier/cheaper go get into wrc somehow, but the reality is that any manufacturer that wants to have a chance to win will need to spend roughly as much as their competitors do.

it's simple. you want to beat toyota, you have to spend as much or more than toyota. which will make toyota spend more if they also really want the title. so in the end the cost to win a the title in a mechanical sport is always the biggest amount of cash any of the competitors is willing to throw at it.

[Kenneth]

successful how? are the championships more equal now? have they made anything better in any way?

Yes and yes. Both championships are more equal, both championships are more interesting, both championships have more viewers and both championships have more interest from manufacturers.

it's simple. you want to beat toyota, you have to spend as much or more than toyota.

Sure, so make it look like WEC few years ago, when no team wanted to spend so much money to beat Toyota, so Toyota were competing alone. That's what you want?

[doubled1978]

I’m not so much in favour of a cost cap system particularly as like the fella above said, creative bookkeeping can render the cap pointless.
BOP works, whether people like it or not, series that employ it in whatever guise do better in terms of manufacture involvement and participation. F1 can get away without it because it’s F1.
The WEC formula is a good one, the cars have to all go through the Sauber wind tunnel and fit into a Max/Min vales of downforce and drag. Energy usage is controlled and then BOP on top of that if required. The need to spend huge on development is negated simply because the car will either not comply to the pre-set Max/Min values or get BOP restricted to slow it down.
Whatever the new WRC class is to be could use similar principals to keep costs under control.

[becher]

Yes and yes. Both championships are more equal, both championships are more interesting, both championships have more viewers and both championships have more interest from manufacturers.

Sure, so make it look like WEC few years ago, when no team wanted to spend so much money to beat Toyota, so Toyota were competing alone. That's what you want?

WRC had much fewer "no hoper" cars in the last 20 years than either sportscar racing or F1. Since 2017 everyone had a winning car bar the post covid Fiesta. In circuit racing this is unheard of and BOP is mostly needed to prevent hopeless developments or include unsuitable cars (think GT3 Bentley by M Sport) but again in rallying no one tried a silly base car since more than 20 years or so. Would BOP change anything at the moment? Would it change anything in future regulations?

[seb_sh]

About cost cap: While true that financial "optimisations" can be done and most likely are already put in place by most teams in F1 there is a limit of what they can actually do. Moreover the teams watch eachother like hawks so it's somewhat self policing between them as well. The result, while it's true that Red Bull are dominating at the moment, in fact it is the tightest difference between the first and last car ever. The ATR/windtunnel restrictions and show and tell rules will gradually work to reduce that difference. Also keep in mind that 20 years ago teams were being sold for a nominal $1 whereas now they are worth hundreds of millions going towards a billion. Audi is paying hundreds of millions for 75% of Sauber. If that's not a healthy championship then I don't know what is.

To those that suggest the cost cap is innefective because it can be bypassed I suggest you educate yourselves on how it works in detail. Now if you suggest to me, like an acquaintance recently did, that it's just for show and just a giant conspiracy between the teams the FIA and the 3rd party international auditor and that in fact the cost cap has no effect than I will not reply anymore since I'd rather not waste my time

About BOP: BOP has the effect to limit spending because it stops chasing diminishing returns for increased costs. It's not just to help unsuitable cars in GT3 it's also a hard cap on performance. Yes it takes some budget to get to the reference but afterwards it's a hard limit on outright performance. Afterwards you need to have the best team and execute the races well. Yes it's very political and controversial. Still, I watched Group C fall when it became to expensive, then GT1 then LMP1 Hybrid (not to mention other categories or series). I'd rather have BOP than nothing. Also WEC is incredibly successful. This year there was record or near record crowd at Le Mans with over 300.000 tickets sold out half a year in advance. There are more manufacturers than almost ever. Because so many people want to race in the top category they are having to drop LMP2 from the WEC because they don't fit in the pitlane anymore. This year's Le Mans went down to the last 30 minutes or so between two teams with 5 different manufacturers leading the race at some point on merit. If that's not succesfull I don't know what is.

I'm not saying the WRC needs to take one of these and implement it, they need to find their own way or adapt one of those. But doing nothing will just make it lose out. Again.

[lmmjvss]

How do they run things in america? Look at those Baja and Desert racing. (I know.. "Its different", but its "rally", so just join the ride... haha) They have TONS of entries, and those trucks are TOUGH! No actual manufacturer competing, its just people and teams and OEMs building those machines... I like this concept. Maybe there is something to learn from them? Rally1 cars are already roll cages with engines and aerokits... Can a cultural shift happen somehow? (More people/teams/oems building stuff and selling)