M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

[dimviii]

then you dont need help from team to steal points.

everyone driver could need help.
Its not always about speed.There are dnf from crashes,mechanical problems,delay from punctures etc.
Its very easy to be behind in points,while you are fast.

[wyler]

I'd like to think that Tanak is capable of accumulating enough of his own points to win, without needing a wingman to help him out.

so what about all the fuss on team orders?

[Rallyest]

so what about all the fuss on team orders?

if you are talking acropolis, that should of have been a no brainer, first season new cars not needing and doing it when its most reasonable are different, was a slim chance yes, but for sake atleast for 1 title for hyudai they shoud have tried, but i guess maybe they already figured Tänak was leaving and wanted to pamper their main man Thierry

[cali]

2021 he was second, better thann Neuville and Kalle and Tänak...
2022 he had a hard time adappting to new car, which they are trying to improve. that doesnt change raw speed.

So based on 2019 you already presume/know that we will see dominating Tänak in a Puma in 2023?

While I hope it will be so I can't draw any conclusions based from 2019, 2020, 2021 or 2022. Different cars, different teams, different people, different rallies, different rules and very different circumstances concerning his position in the series in a underdog (read: financially weak) team while we have generational talent in a best (well funded) team and car. Can't see how 2019 will be relevant in 2023, just bonkers

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[Rallyest]

So based on 2019 you already presume/know that we will see dominating Tänak in a Puma in 2023?

While I hope it will be so I can't draw any conclusions based from 2019, 2020, 2021 or 2022. Different cars, different teams, different people, different rallies, different rules and very different circumstances concerning his position in the series in a underdog (read: financially weak) team while we have generational talent in a best (well funded) team and car. Can't see how 2019 will be relevant in 2023, just bonkers

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Now you are twisting my words. I have not sayd we will see dominating Tänak in 2023, my point was that 2019 is a example of that a driver like Tänak is capable to fight for the title without teammates who can "steal" points from his championship rivals. Never sayd it will happen in 2023, i hope it will and it is a possibility, but please dont make stuff up.

And from a drivers perspective all seasons are relevant. Cars, teams, rallies, people change like you sayd, But talent doesnt.

[cali]

Now you are twisting my words. I have not sayd we will see dominating Tänak in 2023, my point was that 2019 is a example of that a driver like Tänak is capable to fight for the title without teammates who can "steal" points from his championship rivals. Never sayd it will happen in 2023, i hope it will and it is a possibility, but please dont make stuff up.

And from a drivers perspective all seasons are relevant. Cars, teams, rallies, people change like you sayd, But talent doesnt.

Even if presume his raw speed hasn't changed you didn't have Rovanperä in a TGR Yaris in 2019. If anybody's going to dominate, it's him and not Ott (hopefully not).

A lot has changed like I said.

Sorry if you felt that I twisted your words and even if ai didn't completely get your point mine still stands. Domination in 2023 in a Puma is not going to happen whether he's capable or not and a lot has changed.

The question for me is whether it was the Puma or Loeb's brilliance remains to be seen about Ford's performance capabilities. In that sense 2019 is irrelevant.




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[DrLill]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/fo...bull/10411389/

Rumours of Ford being interested in joining F1.

[ouvreur]

so what about all the fuss on team orders?

If he had the sort of team-mates at Hyundai that he will presumably have at M-Sport next year, it wouldn't even have been a discussion, he'd have been ahead of them anyway

[AnttiL]

Motorsport is a combination of driver and machine, so both must work 100% in order to achieve top results. 2019 was an example where that happened for Tänak and Toyota. Of course I can only assume, but I would say that in 2020-2022 it was the machinery that prevented Tänak from proceeding where he left. Not the different car classes, rallies, team circumstances etc. If Puma works for him like Yaris worked in 2019, there's no stopping him, but that one we won't find out until we see how 2023 folds out.

As for team mate support, I would like to see an example of a title won where it wouldn't have happened without a team mate's help.

For example Ogier in 2017:
- Tänak finished several times ahead of Ogier, like in Sweden and Argentina and Australia, but still failed to take points off the biggest rivals Neuville and Latvala
- in Poland Tänak crashed from lead, allowing Ogier's worst rival take big win points (the point interval between Neuville and Ogier became bigger from P1-P3 than it would have been P2-P4).

[Rallyest]

Even if presume his raw speed hasn't changed you didn't have Rovanperä in a TGR Yaris in 2019. If anybody's going to dominate, it's him and not Ott (hopefully not).

A lot has changed like I said.

Sorry if you felt that I twisted your words and even if ai didn't completely get your point mine still stands. Domination in 2023 in a Puma is not going to happen whether he's capable or not and a lot has changed.

The question for me is whether it was the Puma or Loeb's brilliance remains to be seen about Ford's performance capabilities. In that sense 2019 is irrelevant.




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I get your point, and i agree with you. Nobody expects to be full domination in 2023, first of all it would be boring.. but what we or me myself was talking about was that it is possible to win a championship without the help of teammates, if the car holds up and the driver feel comfortable enough to push for the win in every rally in the calendar. If rovanpera would have been there 2019 is irrelevant. 2019 was an first example that came to mind, that it is possible to win a championship even with the lack of help or point stealing from teammates.
Anyway also in my opinion if you are an championship challenger you dont think about if anyone can help to steal points from your competition or anything like that, you go to every rally thinking about only 1 thing and that is how i can win this one. Maybe if you are half a season in and leading you start to think more about strategies