Hyundai WRT

[Tarmop]

And Fiesta wins then? Evans has yet to accomplish another one.
Ok, lets put it this way, excluding again Top 3 and talking about contracted (or now uncontracted) drivers who have drove the new spec a season (more or less).
M-Sport:
Suninen- young and learning
Evans: Not young at all, his fith season in the top class, has one win thanks to an advantage, in a car that took 3 titles.
Citroen: Lappi, young and learning, started his second full season. Apart from that home event nowhere near the win, struggles to get a podium most of the time ("Yes Toyota is fast in Finland no matter the driver" did not apply 2018 to him)
Hyundai
Sordo: first and last victory in a DS3 WRC from 2013, that is a car that has earned several titles and had its latest wins in 2016, when it wasn`t the top car anymore, without big developments definitely. Before that, started in 2006 and again with cars that ate others for breakfast
Mikkelsen: started when he was 16, first car Focus WRC, full seasons in the series since 2013, has managed to take 3 victories, with the help of others, in the best car.
Paddon: was doing great, took his maiden win in 2016 and was looking promising, then RMC tragedy and personal problems hit, nevertheless managed to lead rallies in 2017, only which ended with tech. issues or driving error.
Toyota
Meeke: Fast, capable of winning probably with every car, that can actually win
Latvala: Most experienced of the lot, wins with all the recent cars he has driven,


The more you look at it, the more...

[Morte66]

I see a lot of posts on this forum saying "I think so and so will be gone at the end of the year", and I always think "which driver is clearly better and will be available?"

Who would replace Mikkelsen who is actually likely to be available? Are Breen or Paddon clearly better than him? They seem in the same general ballpark.

Ogier and Tanak are clearly better, but it seems unlikely they'll get fired soon. If Meeke succeeds at Toyota he'll say there, and if he doesn't Hyundai won't want him. Rovanpera(!) might make sense as a much longer term thing, but Hyundai seem focussed on the short term.

[mknight]

Seems like you'r lost in your own argument

Point: All other cars than i20 had multiple drivers winning in them

1. Tarmop: Nobody else but Ogier/Tanak/Neuville won on pace
Answer: Latvala, Meeke and Lappi did

2. Tarmop: Only Meeke and Latvala are proven winners
Answer: So what all 3 cars have wins with both proven and "random" winners. Both clearly on pace (like Lappi) and "almost" on pace like Loeb or Evans. I20 has no win either way, with 3 and sometimes 4 cars entering the events.

Funny how you mange to ignore the Ele(-nas)-phant in the room cause he doesn't fit the constructed arguments. You know that guy that you said will fight for podium both in Monte and Sweden.

[AL14]

The struggle of other drivers in the i20 is clear.
Guys Mikkelsen won 2 rallys and got a total of 5-6 podium places in 2016. One and a half years later he is slower than R5s. It simply cannot be only up on the driver. MKnight is right. Second and third drivers on other cars achivied results, hyundai's drivers are fighting with wrc2 on tarmac, driving rallycross or performing much worse than last year.

They have been able to deliver to Neuville a winning car, despite a hard competition from a legend like Ogier, Citroen taking one year for development and Toyota coming with big budget.
But imho they Bigger mistakes have been:
- Not have took Ogier in 2017
- Have developed a car good for only one of their driver who gave them a lot of complaining and 0 championship in 5 years.
- Do Not have a clear lineup.
- Do Not have kept investing in young guns like Huttunen or Rovanpera.

[Tarmop]

Seems like you'r lost in your own argument

Point: All other cars than i20 had multiple drivers winning in them

1. Tarmop: Nobody else but Ogier/Tanak/Neuville won on pace
Answer: Latvala, Meeke and Lappi did

2. Tarmop: Only Meeke and Latvala are proven winners
Answer: So what all 3 cars have wins with both proven and "random" winners. Both clearly on pace (like Lappi) and "almost" on pace like Loeb or Evans. I20 has no win either way, with 3 and sometimes 4 cars entering the events.

Funny how you mange to ignore the Ele(-nas)-phant in the room cause he doesn't fit the constructed arguments. You know that guy that you said will fight for podium both in Monte and Sweden.

On every event, everywhere, it`s only the top 3, should have been more specific.
Latvala didn`t win those events on his own pace, could argue about Meeke`s Mexico and Lappi also, but a win is a win, yes.
Jup, said it, thought about it, wasn`t correct. You also ripped sentences from someones crystal ball...



I`ll give you another bone, You yourself threw here: Loeb talking about how good the car was, just that times have changed and everyone, except him (from active drivers), knows the stages by heart. When you`re already at it, some comments about Sordo leading Rally Mexico after day 1 in Mexico 2018, also something that shouldn`t be happening with such a bad car.

[Eric]

Loeb will struggle in Tour de Course. Mark my words.

Mikkelsen didnt forget how to drive on tarmac from one season to another. Going from second in Germany to being beaten by R5´s. The car is a disaster on tarmac for everyone except Neuville. Its as simple as that.

[Finne]

Loeb will struggle in Tour de Course. Mark my words.

Mikkelsen didnt forget how to drive on tarmac from one season to another. Going from second in Germany to being beaten by R5´s. The car is a disaster on tarmac for everyone except Neuville. Its as simple as that.

It seems that people always emphasize how bad car is to others instead of finding how good Neuville is. There is some truth in assertion that Hyundai is demands special way to drive but in the end the car is same for everyone. It´s drivers duty to adapt to the vehicle available. When a driver looses to team mate in similar equipment there is no excuses.

[doubled1978]

Loeb will struggle in Tour de Course. Mark my words.

Mikkelsen didnt forget how to drive on tarmac from one season to another. Going from second in Germany to being beaten by R5´s. The car is a disaster on tarmac for everyone except Neuville. Its as simple as that.

I’d say it’s not great for Neuville either, he is just operating at a very high level and has found a way to make it work better for him. I always get the impression watching the Hyundai car that the front and rear are not working together, that they are always trying to force a balance rather than exploit one that is inherent. All 3 generations of Hyundai WRC have looked to have had the same trait from what I see.

[Eric]

It seems that people always emphasize how bad car is to others instead of finding how good Neuville is. There is some truth in assertion that Hyundai is demands special way to drive but in the end the car is same for everyone. It´s drivers duty to adapt to the vehicle available. When a driver looses to team mate in similar equipment there is no excuses.

Neuville is an excellent driver. But right now we were talking about Mikkelsen. And the fact that there is no logic in being second in 2017, to slowest in 2018.

With that said, Neuville has been in Hyundai for 6(?) years. He has adapted his driving to the i20 and the i20 has been built after his wishes and feedback. That doesnt take any glory off the guy, he has made the car suit himself and he is a solid top three driver.

The problem for Hyundai is that Neuville has found a way of driving that almost no one else handles. Ogier, Latvala, Mikkelsen, Loeb, Tanak has the same style, while Neuville is kind of doing his "own thing". And he does it well! But for the manufacture title its not optimal and thats why Hyundai still has 0 trophies in their office in Alzenau.
Thats also why i think Mikkelsen/Paddon/Sordo has an excuse for not being as fast as their team mate.

Lets see what Loeb is able to do with that i20 on tarmac. But as I said; I am pretty sure we will see another Loeb than what we are used to.

[denkimi]

lets say it different.

suppose the championship leader doesn't have to open the road, and nobody has to give up with technical difficulties, how many rally's would have been won by someone else than neuville, ogier or tanak in the last 2,5 years?

we all know that neither lappi, latvala, evans, paddon or mikkelsen have the outright speed to beat those 3 a rally on equal terms. only the starting order giving the later starters sometimes huge advantages makes them look better then they are. and in my opinion, mikkelsen and even loeb today belong to that group.