Toyota announces WRC plans

[AnttiL]

On the opening stages and power stage of Monte, two stages in TDC and some SSS's in Mexico, Hänninen was capable of making top 4 times. In Monte, Sweden and TDC he had a pretty good pace on the splits on the stage before crashing. But for the actual gravel stages in Mexico and the opening stages in Sweden, he was among the slowest WRC cars. In TDC, it was unforgivable to crash on the stage before Power Stage when he couldn't win anything having already started Rally 2, instead he could have gone to the Power Stage without anything to lose and at best made some points.

Meanwhile Breen, Sordo and Tänak have done what a team second driver should do. Either consistency or podiums, both at best.

[Allez Andruet]

Kubica I could understand because he lacked rally experience in general (compared to Hänninen anyway) but I absolutely can not understand why he pushes so much when he clearly don't have the skills.

Right... he clearly doesn't have the skills. Probably doesn't make too much sense to continue this black and white discussion any further...

Regarding Hänninen, I think Tommi said it well in the recent Finnish newspaper article, that while it's unfortunate that Hänninen has crashed a few times, he's also had really bad luck when crashing. Corsica was simply bad from that point of view, no doubt, but the mistakes he made in MC and Sweden were really small ones - they just happened to be so costly. If you compare the two mistakes (just purely as driving errors) to the ones Ogier made in same rallies for example... I don't think they were any worse as driving errors. But hey, let's just say that he clearly doesn't have the skills

[itix]

Right... he clearly doesn't have the skills. Probably doesn't make too much sense to continue this black and white discussion any further...

Regarding Hänninen, I think Tommi said it well in the recent Finnish newspaper article, that while it's unfortunate that Hänninen has crashed a few times, he's also had really bad luck when crashing. Corsica was simply bad from that point of view, no doubt, but the mistakes he made in MC and Sweden were really small ones - they just happened to be so costly. If you compare the two mistakes (just purely as driving errors) to the ones Ogier made in same rallies for example... I don't think they were any worse as driving errors. But hey, let's just say that he clearly doesn't have the skills

Well first of all, that was not meant the way it sounded. I didn't mean he has no skill... Just that he's overdriving it. To be honest I think you understood that.

To call the crashes so far unlucky is to look at it with rose colored spectacles. He braked way too late both in Monte Carlo, in Sweden, twice and in Corsica... Twice. Mexico was not great but he was sick so it was understandable... Also the car suffered from overheating.

Of course Tommi will say the political thing in the media. When was the last time you heard a team boss say "He's crap and he makes too many mistakes"? You don't (ok except Penasse with Neuville a few years back).

Regardless how you look at it, he crash too much and he did at Hyundai too and he did in the ERC too.

If I were Tommi, I'd be disappointed... Very disappointed. He has been given a big chance with a full season contract and so far he has mostly wasted it.

[J_n_z]

What we know about Hanninens technical feedback to engineers, his technical knowledge?
Maybe he can say a lot about the car, maybe he was sent to push to the limit...
I think Toyota is not concerned about factory standings this year and Latvalas points position is pure bonus for the first season.

[Allez Andruet]

To call the crashes so far unlucky is to look at it with rose colored spectacles.

A crash caused by driving error is never unlucky, but the consequences can be classified as lucky or unlucky. For example, Ogier had luck in that sense, when he braked way too late in SS3 in MC. Hänninen on the other hand, was unlucky for somewhat similar error in SS5.

Regardless how you look at it, he crash too much and he did at Hyundai too and he did in the ERC too.

Not sure about the IRC/ERC/SWRC years, but sure, the season with Hyundai and the Toyota resume so far don't give too much to argue against that statement - although it must be said that in 2014 the "crashes" in Sweden (stone in the rut) and Finland (crash caused by a puncture) were something else than just driving errors.

But ofcourse, having said all that, if Hänninen can't justify his existence in WRC during 2017 (and I mean full season, not four rallies), then he's out and there's no-one else to blame.

[itix]

A crash caused by driving error is never unlucky, but the consequences can be classified as lucky or unlucky. For example, Ogier had luck in that sense, when he braked way too late in SS3 in MC. Hänninen on the other hand, was unlucky for somewhat similar error in SS5.


Not sure about the IRC/ERC/SWRC years, but sure, the season with Hyundai and the Toyota resume so far don't give too much to argue against that statement - although it must be said that in 2014 the "crashes" in Sweden (stone in the rut) and Finland (crash caused by a puncture) were something else than just driving errors.

But ofcourse, having said all that, if Hänninen can't justify his existence in WRC during 2017 (and I mean full season, not four rallies), then he's out and there's no-one else to blame.

For sure. Toyota has a multi year program so he is unlikely to be in next year's roster if he continue like this.

I am just surprised he is still there because he was a brave choice already to begin with.

I am surprised that Toyota have not rotated Lappi with him while they had only two cars. I don't imagine his contract says he is to do all of the rounds of the championship.

[jacko]

What we know about Hanninens technical feedback to engineers, his technical knowledge?
Maybe he can say a lot about the car, maybe he was sent to push to the limit...
I think Toyota is not concerned about factory standings this year and Latvalas points position is pure bonus for the first season.

You're fully right. All the bull-shit about Juho here. In every season you've got drivers wich don't deliver (for the greater public) and others will shine. All the talk about Neuville in the past and now he's the man... Offtopic; the only one i'm thinking of he's dissapointed in the results (stage-times) so far is Lefebvre. Ontopic: Hanninen is a three time champ with specially good results back in the IRC days. He's driven many cars wich makes him a very experience driver, he's know as a good testdriver in general and also a good teammember in general. Even that last one counts also. Offcorse, if his results don't come compare with Latvala than he don't have a drive next year we all know (maybe even after Finland), but that's for later on. Now it's time to bring the Toyota to the top and so far i think everybody is suprised how good the car already is and that's for sure with the experience of Juha involved.

[mknight]

Tommi in his own press release: "the objective for him (Lappi) personally is the same as the objective for the whole team: he needs to finish the rallies and collect as much information as possible."

Well crash-tests also give information.

EDIT: To clarify: Tommi indirectly says that Hanninen does not fulfill the main team goal.

[Allez Andruet]

Today's story in Motorsport News didn't give too much light to the Toyota/Mikkelsen topic. Basically Tommi said that he has nothing against Mikkelsen in that car, but that's about it at the moment. To me it sounded like something similar that Tommi has said in the past about some other drivers as well. And now with all these Hyundai rumors going on, I guess we'll just have to wait and see how things develop.

[Rally Power]

Tommi in his own press release: "the objective for him (Lappi) personally is the same as the objective for the whole team: he needs to finish the rallies and collect as much information as possible."
Well crash-tests also give information.

Actually last year Lappi didn’t crash a single time (his only mistake was getting stuck in a ditch during Sweden Rally, where he finished 3rd). He become WRC2 champ by winning 4 events in a row, but he could get the title earlier without the suspension failure in Sardignia and the hidden rock in Poland (the same that took away Tanak’s victory), as he was leading both events.

Besides showing a strong consistency he was also clearly the fastest guy around, with 66 stages wins all season long (almost twice those of main competitors).

Yep, there’s no guarantee he won’t return to a more irregular driving with the Yaris, but we shouldn’t minimize his ‘16 achievements, as they were the result of a successful personal evolution. Anyway, he totally deserves Toyota chance; best luck to him!

eWRC data: https://www.ewrc-results.com/season....nat=95&t=WRC-2