Quote Originally Posted by N.O.T View Post
so a fluke result on special events is a great success and proof that they are not garbage but when they flop due to amateurs in the team its expect because they are a new team.

We are talking toyota here not some 3rd party manufacturer of dog food.

how many times VW had problems on their first year ?
VW was the exception to the rule. How long did Hyundai take to make a competitive car?

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