Rally Portugal 2016

[N.O.T]

Ogier is not there by God's will

I can confirm that.

[Lundefaret]

The fact is that we are confusing Ogier's mental issues and frustrations with the rules.

Ogier should not complain that much, we all know that. Consider that after Sardinia we will have Corsica, China, Spain and Galles, all rallys where he will have either equal conditions or being advantaged.
Also I'm hearing of bad weather in Sardinia that will mean he will be advantaged there too if true.

The fact is that the rules are wrong no matter who is first in the championship.
In 2014 before a rally we knew anybody can win, now in gravel rallys we know somebody have no chance, and in rallys like Monaco is even worse because the best driver is advantaged, so anybody else have hopes.
It's simple as that.
It's not up to rulers to stop Ogier, they can limit him as they did in 2014 when he opened the road in first leg, but to stop him is up to other drivers and teams.
And I know a guy from NZ with his norvegian advisor that can do the task in the future.

Also don't forget that in 2014 Ogier lost 5 times and won 8. I'm pretty sure this year will not be too much different. The only difference is that him and us already know that in some rallys he has no chance and in others he has already win before start. I don't find this "exciting", do you?

One last thing:
In a previous comment I read "every driver would love to be in Ogier's position with the best car, the best team, a massive contract and a comfortable championship lead."
Ogier is not there by God's will, he is there because he earned it, he showed all his strenght battling against the best rally driver of all time and winning all the world championships afterwards. So he is not lucky to be there.

Please now let me stop defending him, it makes me suffer

I think you make a very important point here AL14, and that is that we should not disrespect Ogier as a driver.
He is the current benchmark, no two ways about that.

But, motorsport at this level is not only for the drivers. It is also for spectators, TV viewers etc, (read: fans) to gather attention, to make it a sellable product, so it needs to be exiting.
Success ballast is commonly used in touring cars to level the playing field. (I am not introducing the idea of success ballast in rallying!) It is not fair to the best team/driver, but it does its role in creating excitement.
There has also been reverse starting orders in the second race, so the winner starts down in the grid.
So the question is, if Ogier would lead a touring car championship, would he always complain about the rules then as well?

All tough Im in favor of the 2014 rules (because when Hayden wins the championship I want it to be on equal terms against the best in the world), I think Volkswagen and Capito is doing damage to the WRC by these kind of very poorly timed statements.

My suspicion is that the main reason for this is Ogiers character. For him it isn't enough to win the championship, he wants to beat every record ever set, to be the greatest of all time (and we all know what that means), and he sees that this will be impossible if these rules continue, and I would suspect that he has even threatened to quit rallying all together if this does not change, and I suspect Ogiers tuntrums after Portugal lead Capito to have to react, to show Ogier that he stands 100% behind him.

The championship needs Ogier, to win the championship whit out beating him would be like winning the Spanish soccer league whit out Barcelona and Real Madrid playing.

[AL14]

I think you make a very important point here AL14, and that is that we should not disrespect Ogier as a driver.
He is the current benchmark, no two ways about that.

But, motorsport at this level is not only for the drivers. It is also for spectators, TV viewers etc, (read: fans) to gather attention, to make it a sellable product, so it needs to be exiting.
Success ballast is commonly used in touring cars to level the playing field. (I am not introducing the idea of success ballast in rallying!) It is not fair to the best team/driver, but it does its role in creating excitement.
There has also been reverse starting orders in the second race, so the winner starts down in the grid.
So the question is, if Ogier would lead a touring car championship, would he always complain about the rules then as well?

All tough Im in favor of the 2014 rules (because when Hayden wins the championship I want it to be on equal terms against the best in the world), I think Volkswagen and Capito is doing damage to the WRC by these kind of very poorly timed statements.

My suspicion is that the main reason for this is Ogiers character. For him it isn't enough to win the championship, he wants to beat every record ever set, to be the greatest of all time (and we all know what that means), and he sees that this will be impossible if these rules continue, and I would suspect that he has even threatened to quit rallying all together if this does not change, and I suspect Ogiers tuntrums after Portugal lead Capito to have to react, to show Ogier that he stands 100% behind him.

The championship needs Ogier, to win the championship whit out beating him would be like winning the Spanish soccer league whit out Barcelona and Real Madrid playing.

That sentence is enough for me. Do you find it exciting? I don't. I was just happy for Kris Meeke last weekend because he is a great driver and seems a nice guy. But really, as a fan, I would have been way more excited if he had won against Ogier in equal conditions.

Also you're not counting that in rallys like Monte or Galles when it rains (always) it is even less exciting because Ogier is advantaged.

In conclusion I agree with you that motorsport and rally are not just for drivers and must be exciting for fans and sponsors. But my objection is that these rules don't make it exciting.

As for Capito's move agree it has been stupid in timing and in the way he showed his disagreement. Ogier's tantrums have had a role for sure. This does not change the fact that in my opinion 2014 rules are better for everybody, drivers, spectators, and sponsors.

[Mirek]

Guys, have a look on that all stuff from higher perspective no matter how hard it is. Now for a while forget that motorsport is sport and look at it as on marketing tool which it actually is for all the manufacturers involved. They don't spend millions for helping some guy to win the title. They do it because they want to increase their image, to sell more of their products and to make more money.

As such motorsport on this level is all driven by cold money-driven management. And that's another issue because if one very rich team buys the best people from other teams, goes through far biggest amount of testing it simply must defeat others (unless the team management is utterly incompetent). As a result the other managements must sooner or later come to a conclusion that spending those millions in this sport brings nothing. They pack and move somewhere else. Then we have what we had less than ten years a go with Loeb/Citroën combination when all other manufacturers left (M-Sport which is not a manufacturer is different case). The very same thing keeps repeating all the time. Recently we can name ERC/IRC which was in a similar way so much dominated by Škoda that every other team left. What happened next? Škoda left too because there was no interest in that championship anymore. The championship is now half dead. Do You think it won't happen in WRC if VW keeps dominating for several more years? It will happen and then VW moves into some other sport just like they did when they destroyed the competition in Dakar.

It's the job of FIA and the promoter to keep the manufacturers interested but how can You keep them in when one team keeps winning all the time? It's sad for sporting purist but the only way is to let them have some success from time to time. They must have something to sell and loosing every two weeks again and again with the very same competitor is very bad marketing if You ask me. I'm surprised Capito says what he says as he must be aware of all that. The only explanation is that VW acts just like in Dakar. They don't seem to care what's left when one day they stay as a lone winner of a deserted championship.

[AL14]

Mirek I say it also in a marketing point of view. If excitment is what make you reach marketing goals, then this is not exciting. I agree that for a new manufacturer entering the sport the chance to win soon is good for marketing but look at facts: we will have 5 factory teams from next year. The last two decided to enter the sport before this years rules...

[stefanvv]

But, motorsport at this level is not only for the drivers. It is also for spectators, TV viewers etc, (read: fans) to gather attention, to make it a sellable product, so it needs to be exiting.

Exactly this is here Capito made his point. WRC is hard to recognize for a casual spectator, he doesn't understand why the championship leader is handicapped by a guy ho enters few rallies for the year. He probably finds f1 much more exciting now, equal conditions, more real competition.
Imagine a sprint duel between a sportsman in a wheelchair taking part in para-Olympics running only 10m and Husein Bolt running 100m. Is it exciting? Or just humiliating? Who will watch such competition. No, sport is about competition.

[stefanvv]

Guys, have a look on that all stuff from higher perspective no matter how hard it is. Now for a while forget that motorsport is sport and look at it as on marketing tool which it actually is for all the manufacturers involved. They don't spend millions for helping some guy to win the title. They do it because they want to increase their image, to sell more of their products and to make more money.

As such motorsport on this level is all driven by cold money-driven management. And that's another issue because if one very rich team buys the best people from other teams, goes through far biggest amount of testing it simply must defeat others (unless the team management is utterly incompetent). As a result the other managements must sooner or later come to a conclusion that spending those millions in this sport brings nothing. They pack and move somewhere else. Then we have what we had less than ten years a go with Loeb/Citroën combination when all other manufacturers left (M-Sport which is not a manufacturer is different case). The very same thing keeps repeating all the time. Recently we can name ERC/IRC which was in a similar way so much dominated by Škoda that every other team left. What happened next? Škoda left too because there was no interest in that championship anymore. The championship is now half dead. Do You think it won't happen in WRC if VW keeps dominating for several more years? It will happen and then VW moves into some other sport just like they did when they destroyed the competition in Dakar.

It's the job of FIA and the promoter to keep the manufacturers interested but how can You keep them in when one team keeps winning all the time? It's sad for sporting purist but the only way is to let them have some success from time to time. They must have something to sell and loosing every two weeks again and again with the very same competitor is very bad marketing if You ask me. I'm surprised Capito says what he says as he must be aware of all that. The only explanation is that VW acts just like in Dakar. They don't seem to care what's left when one day they stay as a lone winner of a deserted championship.

I understand marketing is important and everybody wants to win, but this sounds more like lottery to me - everyone with few coins in his pocket can make millions by scratching some numbers.

[cali]

Exactly this is here Capito made his point. WRC is hard to recognize for a casual spectator, he doesn't understand why the championship leader is handicapped by a guy ho enters few rallies for the year. He probably finds f1 much more exciting now, equal conditions, more real competition.
Imagine a sprint duel between a sportsman in a wheelchair taking part in para-Olympics running only 10m and Husein Bolt running 100m. Is it exciting? Or just humiliating? Who will watch such competition. No, sport is about competition.

So according to your own words we should let Usain Bolt run 90m and the rest of the field 100m? Just because he is Usain Bolt (in our case Ogier)? Motorsport is not athletics and never will be. If WRC would run reverse starting order, then this would be the scenario. Also, you have to consider that on tarmac events running first will be huge advantage.

It's not so black and white as you would think at first.

[AL14]

So according to your own words we should let Usain Bolt run 90m and the rest of the field 100m? Just because he is Usain Bolt (in our case Ogier)?

Of course not, but neither force Usain Bolt to run 110m.

[Mirek]

Mirek I say it also in a marketing point of view. If excitment is what make you reach marketing goals, then this is not exciting. I agree that for a new manufacturer entering the sport the chance to win soon is good for marketing but look at facts: we will have 5 factory teams from next year. The last two decided to enter the sport before this years rules...

Introducing new rules is a long established way how to renew the interest in the motorsport. It's not always because the new rules would be better or anything, they just have to be new for everybody. It gives everybody a chance to start from zero and it always brings more attention both from the teams and audience. The interest can however fade very quickly and since it's near impossible to create fair rules which prevent domination of a superior team various form of handicaps appear from time to time in most of the motorsports branches. Road sweeping, different rules for privateers and works entrants, additional balast, reverse starting order in some circuit races etc. All has the same target and nothing of that is fair. The common point is that the best keep winning anyway, they just don't win every single event in the calendar and therefore don't discourage the competition to continue.