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It makes sponsors feel good about the money they have given you!
He won all that he could win, therefore he won.
GT class winners at Le Mans all say they won Le Mans, same principal. SEAT used to promote themselves as World Rally Champions in their dealerships, when those of us who followed rally knew that it was F2 World Champions, general public wouldn’t have had a clue I doubt.
I’m not sure why it bothers anyone so much. These guys and their sponsors need something to promote or why bother.
Yes, you're basically saying "they declare themselves world champions to appease the sponsors and to trick the average joe who doesn't have much of a clue" and that's exactly what we're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
I don't see anyone particularly bothered here, apart from considering it silly, since rally fans aren't average joes with no clue of motorsports.
Talking about Le Mans, you reminded how quite some people who don't follow endurance racing got tricked by the Ford vs Ferrari myths into believing that after 1969 Ferrari never won Le Mans, while Ford won it again with the GT (which is a statement that uses double standards because it doesn't count Ferrari GTE wins but it counts Ford GTE wins).
And if anyone who thinks that way (I'm not even sure he does) sleeps a bit better at night, or gets a longer-lasting erection by thinking that way, good for them. I'm happy for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
It is no small achievement to win the RC2 class on a WRC rally and bring a second-division car to 6th overall. But unless you finish 1st overall, you don't win a rally. That's final. Anyone asserting otherwise is either terrible at mathematics, delusional about the scale of their achievement, or both.
I won my class in a tarmac championship once. Do I go around telling people I won that championship? No. Because I didn't. The sort of person who would be impressed if I were to exaggerate my achievement aren't worth impressing. Sponsors, believe it or not, don't fall for it.
As far as Le Mans is concerned class winners usually mention the class, I've yet to see someone claim they won Le Mans without mentioning the class. Usually they say class winners or something like that. Even Lamborghini in their museum have plaques of their GTD class wins at Daytona 24h next to the car that clearly say GTD class. Same with Ferrari in their museum with their Le Mans GTE wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
As for Dakar the Bikes, Cars, Trucks, Quads etc are more like different competitions that are run in parallel to eachother. Some stages are not even the same and there is no combined classification.
If I remember correctly, at the time SEAT was competing in the F2 championship which was running in paralel to the Group A8 championship. So it was really two different competitions and the FIA was trying to push the F2 Kitcars class to the top. The calendar was split and the cars didn't race the same rallies.
I think it's disingenuous to proclaim yourself the rally winner if you only won the class. Saying something like WRC2 rally winner would be correct.
Imo it's important to say that per FIA the champion of WRC2 is (obviously) WRC2 Champion, not a WORLD champion. And it's same in LeMans, Moto2, Formula 2, etc.
Technically speaking WRC is open championship for all classes and you can win it with Rally2 car. And outside of that there are support championships like WRC2.
So yeah, it's kinda stupid to call Greensmith Rally Mexico winner, if they would put some smaller WRC2 into graphics, it would be much better.
In the world of motorcycle racing, it seems quite commonplace. For example it is often said that Rossi is 9 times world champion, along with Marquez being at a similar level, be it the media circus or the riders themselves. In actuality, Rossi won the main class 7 times and the lower classes twice, but is common for him to be called 9 times world champion and a big thing was always made about whether he would win his 10th world championship title.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
On his various social media I haven't seen ONE comment to this effect. EVERY comment has been congratulations and not moans.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Considering how much stick he usually gets I think this tells a lot. People understand he won WRC2 and aren't being pedantic about the picture.
This is starting to sound like pub talk already.
Personal opinion: if you win all you can win, then you can call yourself the winner. Everyone knows what he means, he's not fooling anyone so no harm done.
What did annoy me slightly was his comments throughout the rally saying how nice it was to be in control/be able to be so fast and afterwards, like when he got out the car and said 'easy' - plus the media saying how he 'dominated' the rally. If it wasn't for a phantom puncture for a rival on Friday it could have been quite a humbling rally for Gus, so to have such an arrogant air of superiority wasn't a good look in my eyes.
And I know my username suggests some bias, but compare Gus to Ogier, who kept saying how sorry he was for Lappi and that he knows it wasn't an easy win and he could have been pushed all the way by EP. And even to Lindholm who said he understands he only got P2 in WRC2 because of others' misfortune. It's just the done thing, and not to mention another driver (and teammate's) rapid pace all weekend seems a bit odd to me.
Ended up just being a loose cable after a heavy compression! Would have been an easy fix in a service.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
I don't know about arrogance. It was probably just nice for him to get through a rally without making any mistakes, or having the car fall apart on him, or to be way off the pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
In fact, more than nice, it was probably a bit of a strange situation for him to find himself in, and if he (with everything still to prove) didn't handle it as well as an eight-time world champion who's basically driving for fun... well, can you blame him?
He got lucky with the stage cancellations, sure. But while it COULD have been a humbling event for him - it was not. Quite the opposite.
Fair points.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
Still think if I was Gus I would feel a bit humbled seeing as he is an experienced driver with many years of top level WRC experience and WRC2 events, yet was comprehensively beaten on pace by a kid that most people think isn't good enough for the WRC. Fair enough Gus had nothing to push for, but still think it would make me tone down the celebrations a bit.
I do see what you mean. He didn't dominate as he might have wanted or been expected to, considering his experience. But at the same time, he drove a great rally, stayed out of trouble, and I think proved he's no mere pay driver without any discernible talent. What he did isn't an easy thing to do, and ultimately he didn't need to be faster than Solberg, once Solberg had lost the best part of two minutes.
Any source of this?Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
Direct from the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Sparkplug cable?Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
WRC2 Mexico Highlights
https://youtu.be/Fqi3Z6wJzEo
https://www.wrc.com/en/video/player/?videoId=1594166
Chris Evans @summit6
Yesterday I was privileged to attend the inaugural Rally Warrior Experience day with @ChrisIngramGB
Chris is raising funds to help him and @craigdrew75 complete the ‘23 WRC2 with @toksportwrt
these guys are the real deal and need your help ...
Link ⬇️
https://gofundme.com/f/chris-ingram-wrc
https://twitter.com/i/status/1642459974566592512
Loeb wins rally azores infront of Mikkelsen in a fabia rs rally2...........
... even though he has never been on this island, hasn't driven this car before and has nearly zero experience in R5/Rally2 cars. What a driver!Quote:
Originally Posted by spyros
Looks to me like yet another nail in the coffin of Mikkelsen's Rally1 chances, particularly after reading the dirtfish interview in which he spouts a long list of excuses as to why he lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
It's not just the fact that he lost- after all, Loeb is a formidable opponent- but the way he basically tried to claim it wasn't his fault and he drove a good drive is unimpressive.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it though
You're being unfair. It's obviously just down to the tyres :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by speederbee
The interview I read says that Michelin were supposedly better on the first day in wet and worse on second day in dry. So he also claims that he was able to close up on second day due to his tires beeing better then. First day he had a puncture on first stage and no extra spare, that's just what happened.
A bit over a year ago Loeb got in the Puma, never changed a single setting and won Monte vs fulltime drivers that were developing their cars for a year, in a rather similar situation. Since then he led every rally he started on the top level and was always the fastest Puma (beating Breen, who just got 2nd place in a Hyundai).
Losing to Loeb by a small margin surely isn't "a nail in the coffin" for anyone.
Loeb and Ogier results in Rally1 era make everyone currently driving there look like second class drivers though.
You can compare the results - on Michelin was Loeb, Cais and Moura, on Pirelli was Mikkelsen, Veiby and Solans. It is also important to mention that there was limit of 10 tyres per crew for whole race, so there was also part of tactics...Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Interesting article about Loeb from a Skoda engineer Yannick Willocx, Loeb engineer in the Azores: "I felt useless..."
https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/...i-inutile.html
goatQuote:
Originally Posted by fast eddie wrc
I'm happy to see him in action back in years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Gus Greensmith on the Skoda Fabia RS:
https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/...easy-to-drive/
Rally Warrior aka Chris Ingram:
Counting down the days until my next WRC round in the brand new RS Rally2...
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00065400402839
M-Sport Ford test session before Croatia Rally. Munster already crashed, look at 2:54. I don't know what exactly happened though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5AcU-iSVas
Josh McErlean withdraws from Croatia Rally as mark of respect for late Craig Breen...
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/spo...963656081.html
It doesn't look good for Ford in Croatia at the moment - Fourmaux is in the 7th place and Munster crashed again on the first day.
But it's still better than Cais who crashed already on SS1:
https://www.ewrc-results.com/media/8...lly-2023/3941/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...886t3kE5zbscJI
Rossel leads since the first stage.
Meanwhile Gryazin in the same corner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=de...8yBoO0YMAZScbU
How about some flatout action from Oliver Solberg?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egT-CWYM4Wk
A stage win and a 3rd this morning by Fourmaux shows a bit of progress...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
This time Solberg was a little less lucky:
https://twitter.com/OliverSolberg01/...43099068051457
WRC2 Day 2 Highlights:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zW6y-d7ZsU
Nicolas Ciamin's crash on SS13:
https://rallyandrace.pl/nicolas-ciam...wrc-chorwacji/
Gryazin crashed in Portugal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRIybj9bMcI