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I'm sure everyone saw that Suninen was about to win the stage before he crashed. That showed that the upgraded Fiesta has potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Also, if you say 2020 had only glimpses at Monza, you're forgetting how fast Suninen was in Mexico and Sardegna. Lappi was also setting decent times here and there.
But like you said, it's not their interest to hire someone to drive fast at the moment.
I have missed it so if anyone knows.. were there other updates besides the front aero? Was the engine update already in use in Monte?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
No engine update.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
OK, I thought they already added that. Then it's even more impressive from Suninen. The engine upgrade was already supposed to come for summer 2020, but they decided to use all the remaining old-spec engines for economical reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by abcrally
I thought the engine upgrade was here, especially with Suninen's pace.
2021 is here, what are they waiting for when its just upgrades not a completely new engine ?
3) MoneyQuote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Pretty much impossible to conclude from that (almost) one stage anything about the Fiesta, especially in the conditions that were there. As proven by the crash Suninen was driving on the edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Lots of different cars (and drivers) could do a quick stage time or two at the expense of massive risks, ref. Meeke with C3.
Jan 2020
'Malcolm Wilson is hopeful that the upgrade which is slated to arrive at the fourth round will move the team forwards once more.
“This is the biggest change we’ve made to the engine since we started work with this car [in 2017],” Wilson told Motorsport.com. “It’s a big step. As you’d expect, we’ve worked closely with Ford on this, with Ford doing a lot of the modelling work on the engine.
“When it comes, we’ll have more power, torque and driveability – like I said, it will make a big difference. Once we’ve got that in place, I don’t see any reason really why we shouldn’t be challenging [for victory] on all remaining rounds of the series.'
1) My point was not whether or not they stay but why would they want to spend in order to do so, when they can take those paydrivers..Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
2) Skoda are not in the top class but sell lots of Rally2 cars
3) Not so sure about that.. won't they be even more complicated and expensive than the current ones?
[
Imo Skoda are a perfect example of always hiring at least one top driver in the category to help sell the cars. (Lappi, Rovanpera, Solberg, Mikkelsen...). I don't think any of these paid large sums of money to start with Skoda.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Quite opposite to recent MSport WRC policy.
WRC1 seems more of a vanity project now for M-Sport. They cant compete with the two factory teams without Ford as a full manufacturer team, or afford a top driver in this economic climate.
They could concentrate on WRC2/3 and promote thelr Fiesta Rally2 that way with no detriment.
Credit them for at least giving us a 3rd WRC car to watch but dont expect them to win much.
In F1 the prize money is so much for the top teams that together with other sponsorship revenues and the promotion for the brand it's almost a no-brainer for them to compete there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
But I doubt there is much excess in WRC once the costs of running the circus, especially All-Live are taken into account.
They have also won many WRC2 titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
Yet still many teams are really struggling financially in F1Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
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With prices down from a rumoured €800,000 to €500,000, but with likely high running costs and poorer reliability. I dont expect many takers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
And sadly Extreme-E is already pulling in the rich kids with its futuristic, trendy, 'off-road racing'.
Yes, as I said 'top teams'Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
But all teams get tens of millions.
That is true but it's not related to the discussion which was about why M-Sport compete in the 'Rally 1' class or whatever it's called.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
They already have the WRC cars, and have invested in upgrades, so they might as well run them for their final eligible season in 2021.
And with the driver deals they shouldnt make a loss, even if it doesnt actually make a profit or get any great results.
There will be at least three Fiesta WRC's at Arctic Rally Finland. Could be even four if Tuohino manages to rent his car.
Where you got this info? Suninen wasn´t sure in Monte when spoke to Finnish media?Quote:
Originally Posted by abcrally
It looks Tuohino can drive himself.
Very valid pont. At first i wondered why on earth would MSport register this year if they were to concentrate on the new 2022 car - a few events here and there would have been enough. If indeed they are breakeven with their current line-up, so why not ?
Howezver I am really uhsure now that they will even make it to 2022's top class. Someone said in this thread that WRC1 was Malcolm's vanity project - it may be true. Business-wise MSport would be better off concentrating on regaining its market share for the lower classes. This has been eroding slowly, with a high acceleration lately. Not good when you run a business ! focus on your fundamentals !
To get P1 status, M-Sport must enter all rallies with two cars. If they would do just a few events here and there they would probably not be shown on TV?Quote:
Originally Posted by djip
In formula one teams pay an entry fee based on the amount on points they collected last year. The more points, the more they pay the year after.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
But they get money according to their position in the constructors standings and some other deals they made in the past.
Ferrari gets about 200 million, while torro rosso "only" got 52 million.
So even the smallest f1 teams have the same or bigger budgets than the biggest wrc teams.
That is why i keep saying we have to get rid of the need for manufacturers approval. Everyone should be able to build a wrc car, as long as its according to the rules. Not just official car manufacturers, who often have different goals and interests.
On the Dirtfish video summary of RMC, David Evans stated M-Sport cannot afford any more big crashes as they dont have many more WRC chassis' available.
Knowing this situation wont make it any easier for their drivers to push to the limit this year.
I also wonder if this is why they didnt put the upgraded engines in yet in case they got destroyed so early in the year ?
https://www.ewrc-results.com/cars-ow...fiesta-wrc-17/
#1 M-Sport
#2 Lorenzo Bertelli
#3 M-Sport
#4 M-Sport
#5 OT Racing
#6 JanPro Racing
#7 M-Sport
#8 M-Sport
#9 M-Sport
#10 Armando Pereira
#11 Destroyed
#12 R+ SPORT
Info from reliable source.Quote:
Originally Posted by satukata
Like I mentioned 3 or 4 Fiesta WRC's. Tuohino will drive with his own car if he can't get it rented. If good customer will show up then Tuohino will drive in Arctic with 'some other rally car'👍
Just 12 in total... what a difference compared to the original Fiesta WRC:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
In it's five years (2011-2016) there were 25 works Fiesta WRC's and 62 built in total. Yes, 62 !
https://www.ewrc-results.com/carinfo...-rrc/?car=1456
54. The 61 and 62 numeration was different.
Older was way cheaper...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
With same price newer one would also sell god amounts
I believe situation is same with R5 compared to Rally2, older was way more popular
Good article about M-Sport's current situation and future in the WRC.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/why-m-spo...shot-for-2022/
I think there was also some restrictions on where to run the 2017 WRC cars, including the rule in 2017 that the cars must always be entered by a factory team.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Have a read all you armchair experts constantly slagging off the team and it's drivers and get into the real world.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Haven’t read it yet Eddie, but whatever it says, it’s not going to make your boy Gus any faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Or fast at all, for that matter.
whats the deal here lately with some members getting offensive or personal when others have a different opinion.
So you're a professional rally driver and not an armchair expert?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I've been saying all along I was happy to see Suninen being on the pace, meaning the Fiesta can still challenge the other cars.
I still don't think Greensmith will ever challenge anyone.
I think we all here love M-Sport.
Internet rules. In the real world those guys usually find out the hard way they were talking when they should have been listening.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Simply being polite and accepting the opinions of others is a basic sign of being an adult, these days the internet allows to much to hide behind.
I don't see why you need to have a tone like this, but that was mentioned already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Thing is, I don't remember anyone saying they don't understand MSport situation. But that doesn't mean we are and should be happy about it.
In the article there isn't really much new compared to what has been discussed here forever.
Sure they write off this season to focus on 2022 development, that's perfectly understandable.
What is a bit less understandable is how Malcom is seemingly totally convinced they have a top car atm and only miss a driver. From the outside it is very hard to see much proof of that, (almost) one stage in massive rain...and before that rarely any top speed in 2020. If he really thinks that it shows what he thinks about Suninen and Lappi. I think that he either just talks up his product or means that if he had driver and money for development they could be up there.
That leads to the next point discussed in detail here. To get top car for 2022 they might need an experienced driver at some point in development, but more importantly need to attract a top driver for 2022. The last part Wilson say they will try. Might be interesting silly season then since afaik both Tanak and Neuville are out of contract.
Finally what I voiced is how do they motivate the team when all they get is crash on first stage and Greensmith behind Rally2 cars. That actual does seem to be a problem since also he mentioned how they worked so hard to get to Monte. What people here suggested is that MSport could have one top driver to show the car speed without having to pay. Malcolm says that would need "x millions of pounds". I find it hard to believe that drivers like Meeke, Mikkelsen, Paddon or Lappi would ask for that for a few stats or even a season this year. From Suninen and Lappis comments it rather seems it's Malcolm asking those sums from them.
It's not just the driver salary, but what it costs to run the car throughout the season. This is what the current M-Sport drivers are more or less funding by themselves, in addition to paying their own salary.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
I'm a big M-Sport fan but not necessarily Greensmith fan. I also understand why it is how it is at the moment but stating these things doesn't make Gus any faster. My all hopes are laid to engine upgrade, Fourmaux and Suninen. We all know Gus isn't there because of his raw talent.
It's painful to see what M-Sport goes through atm but hoping for the best in 2022 and Tänak (or even both Tänak and Neuville) behind the wheel of a Ford once again as we all know Hyundai could be still leaving the sport.
Being a fan though doesn't mean you lose your head and judgement (yes, I'm looking at you Eddie)
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