The running cost will be apparently much lowerQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
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The running cost will be apparently much lowerQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
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And I guess R4 would allow you to turn anything into a car, so if you owned a Kia dealership, or Ssangyong etc, you could build an R4 car with whatever car you want to promote your dealership with... Which you can't do with R5 without manufacturer involvement. Well that's how I read it anyway?
While R4 is still under development, in Spain N5 cars (based in Argentina's MR rules) are on their 2nd season.
Besides ERC in the 208 R5, Suarez will also run spanish gravel series in a 208 N5 built by RMC. It uses Baratec kit and a 3dr body. Suzuki will run their N5 Swift (called R+), built by ARVidal, on the tarmac series. (N5's uses 1.6t engine from PSA with a 34mm restrictor).
https://www.facebook.com/88504350818...6156004738795/
https://youtu.be/oLna6ti3WR8
That RMC car is heavily based on Subaru. Similar suspension, similar drivetrain to Impreza.
How is that working with EP6 engine? Is it placed longitudinally?
Yep, RMC N5 uses Baratec MR Kit, which has several Impreza transmission and suspension parts.
MR overall layout is the same since its debut. They’ve kept the EP6 in longitudinal position, like the previous 2.4 Honda engine. No major issues so far.
Btw, with only one SSS to go, Suarez is leading the first rally of the season on RMC’s 208 N5, almost 1m in front of Basols DS3 R5. http://www.codea.es/codea/normal/pag...a=90002&lang=0 (clasificaciones)
Edit: Suarez won it! 2nd time a N5 car wins a spanish gravel rally, ahead R5 and N+ cars. Congrats!
Big surprise from spain: Renault importer will enter the tarmac series with a Clio N5 (spanish Maxi Rally), built by RMC. Driver is five time champ Miguel Fuster.
http://www.diariomotor.com/competici...uel-Fuster.jpg
The plan was to run a brand new Clio R4, but delays in R4 homologation alongside the fact that the R4 rules are apparently close to those of N5/MR made Renault begin the project building a N5 spec car. First event will be Ourense Rally, in June.
While on gravel RMC’s 208 N5 already show it can win against R5 cars, on tarmac the Swift N5 from ARVidal is still far from them. Let’s see what this Renault (powered by a Peugeot engine!) will be able to do.
http://www.diariomotor.com/competici...al-de-asfalto/
I know I'm a bit late to this party but in sweden we have SFRO which approve amateur built cars. I don't know about rally cars but they definitely allow builders to use ready made kits etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Registering such a car for road (and rally) use can't be impossible I imagine if you buy the R4 kit and do the work yourself.
I know Swedish rally cars have orange plates though, so I'm guessing that there is a different body for inspecting and approving rally cars.
What a great looking car, looking forward to this on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
When can we expect to see prototypes or testing from Oreca on the R4 kit in a mule?
Have Oreca buildt a prototype/testmule and started practical testing on the R4 kit yet?
If it is to available in August it should be testcars for potential customers to try out.
For sure they could not developed the kit without testing. That's impossible.
He He!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Stupid questions deserves stupid answers.
Any reports on the testing, one the mule they must have made?
First tests planned soon...
That doesn't sound like they are on schedule, aren't they?
The FIA/Oreca R4 deal is a bit strange, to say the least. The kit seems to be based on Argentina’s Maxi Rally (dampers aside, as teams are free to choose them), so there’s no justification for the delays. But the most intriguing thing is to have just one R4 kit supplier. A single supplier can make sense for only one country (like Baratec in Argentina) but even in the Asia Pacific region the AP4 cars (yes, they’re different from R4 but they share the regs spirit) can be made by different tuners. The mandatory Oreca kit in Europe (also on ERC and WRC) can become a limitation for R4 category.
Btw, the R4 Clio from Renault Spain is, for now, a N5 (spanish MR version), built by RMC and expected to start at the next CERA event (Ferrol). The ‘real’ Clio R4 debut date is unknown.
http://staticv2.revistascratch.com//...o-n5_full.jpeg
photo: www.revistascratch.com
Oreca R4 kit presentation: https://youtu.be/-DF_u-Fou6c
Just took a quick look; apparently the kit costs €108.000 (without taxes) and doesn’t include several components (dampers, cockpit items, exhaust, radiator, chassis panels, electrical system and many other necessary parts) that are sold as “options”. To those the costumer also has to add the donor car cost, the kit installation work hours and other administrative expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
It doesn’t seem hard to imagine that the 108K value is a joke and a ready to rally R4 will probably cost close (over?) to 200K. It’s also a mystery how will Oreca manage to satisfy a potential worldwide demand, supplying in time enough kits to costumers.
The R4 is needed and the use of a kit is a smart option, but to have a single supplier seems to be a recipe to disaster.
Maybe 100 000 € is not a lot of money for FIA employees, but for many others that are club or national level drivers, it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
How Oreca made FIA buy into that a reasonable price for the kit is 108 000€ is very good work from their side.
The Dytko kit-car, for less than half, is more in line with with what the market will be willing to pay!
Yep the price is to close to an R5 car. Maybe running costs are lower but rallycar buyers that can spend 200k in regional rally s you can t find manny.
I have heard rumours that Oreca asked FIA to increase this basic price 108 000 euro...
Oreca*@Oreca
#FIAR4Kit : after the Dacia Sandero what do you think about our Lada R4?
More pictures here -> https://goo.gl/xETbcf
Looks too simple..Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Where's Sandero..?
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Same car, different badge!
https://www.facebook.com/rallyemag/p...type=3&theater
Not sure if this blogarticle have been posted here before, but voices same cost concern as many here have;
https://drivetribe.com/p/r4-is-comin...R3CAU4pXWtLu6g
The 3D pics of the Dacia and the Lada made me wonder if Oreca’s real purpose is to serve privateers (notably those that previously used Gr.N cars) or to provide rally cars to brands with little or none connection to the sport.
Let’s face it, exotic brands and even some traditional ones, but currently with no intention to start a rally program, can easily make their own R4 and use it in national or international series, through importers and major dealers, making consumers believe they’re actively engaged in rally.
Probably no one will care if they’re using the same mechanical base, as people will still believe the distinctive bodywork represents brand x or y. That has been the case in Argentina with the Maxi Rally cars and now in Spain with N5 models (based in MR).
If so, eventually what will be the point of keeping R5 category, as any Ford (or any other R5 manu) importer can build a R4 Fiesta that will look exactly the same and cost a bit less than the genuine article?!?
The question shall be what is the point of having R4 when they are nearly as expensive as R5 while the R5 are way faster?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
The history proved many times that in motorsport customers don't buy less expensive but slow cars because the sole purpose of motorsport is to compete not to save money.
Can You imagine someone spending 200 thousand Euro to buy an equivalent of gr.N car, i.e. second tier car in national and third tier car in WRC events?
For this class to be successful, prices shouldn't go (much) about 100-125k for the complete car.
I like the idea behind it, but the price kills it before it has even started.
I’m only speculating and I agree with you; top privateers will use faster R5 cars (and the less resourced ones will still have to use their old Evo's or Impreza's, as R4 will be inaccessible to them!), but looking at the current situation it’s clear that there's a much larger number of manus that are not involved in rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Somehow, R4 can become their entrance door to the sport. Will they use it in a massive way? In that case will they eventually pressure local ASN's to turn R4 into the leading category at national series (and even the FIA in the regional ones) or at least force a sort of BoP with current R5’s?
For sure it's premature to ask all these, but in spain N5's already won gravel rallyes (using a 34mm restrictor) and even the fact of being less competitive than R5's on tarmac didn't stopped Renault Spain to make a N5 Clio (actually, Fuster will start it next weekend).
That's not comparable at all, sorry. R5 have 32 mm restrictor and there is no chance that R4 would get same or even bigger one as it would make no sense. The aim of creating R4 was to replace N4 not to add competition to R5. Based on the rumors the contrary is going to happen as it looks like R5 will be made even faster (and more expensive).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
By the way from 32 to 34 mm is roughly 10-15% of extra power which is quite huge difference.
For sure, but knowing how expensive R4's will be and seeing these 3D images, one can ask if Oreca's aim is still to replace N4 or to propose a new rally category to manus...time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
About that I would say this
But who am I. FIA already killed several successful formulas in the past in the name of something new and better.Quote:
Don't repair what is not broken.
What did the N5 price end up at in the end?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Is N5 based on the Argentinian Maxi rally car? If so I would expect it to be a similar cost?
The RMC Motorsport website has a contact form with just N (R2, R4 etc) listed as car types.
As well as a construction/ purchase price, a running cost per season for the area/ events a competitor is going to take part should also be factored in a competition budget. (and all the other variable costs - sponsorship, event entry fees, travel/ accommodation costs, contingency fund for engine/ transmission failures) etc.
Hard to say. ARV doesn’t sell their Suzuki’s (they’re the brand official tuner) and the handful made by RMC (including the 208’s, one Fiesta and one DS3) were sold to privateers but the final price remained unknown. Btw, apparently RMC asked local ASN to allow a bigger turbo and a 36mm restrictor, but it was refused.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
https://youtu.be/ZQDeZBUZPrY
I found this video of a test for the clio n5, is it a 1.6 or 2.0 l engine?
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1.6 Turbo PSA
Yes, 1.6 EP6FDTR from Peugeot 308 GTi.
Thanks guys, so the same one that will be used for the R4. Would be Interesting to have the price of the N5 and compare.
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