New R4 Car - Think Tank

[OldF]

How much does it cost to put a brand new R2 Fiesta together now?

I copied this from the sales document.
http://www.m-sport.co.uk/images/New_...ument_v6_2.pdf

To supply the conversion kit to R2 specification in gravel or tarmac: £29680 / 0,85 = 34918 €
To strip standard LHD road car & install above mentioned conversion kit: £10000 / 0,85 = 11765 €
To prepare standard bodyshell to R2 specification: £2000 / 0,85 = 2353 €
To paint car interior and underbonnet: £1800 / 0,85 = 2118€
To supply LHD 1.0ltr Ford Fiesta standard road car: £11500 / 0,85 = 13529 €

Labor costs: 11765+2353+2118 = 16236 €
R2 total: Donor car + labor cost = 13529 + 16236 = 29765 €
R2 total + R4 kit = 29765 + 108000 = 137765 €

What’s still is missing is modifying the bodyshell for 4WD. How many workhours would this modification require?

For the R2 the whole car can be used unlike with the R4-kit leaving lot of excessive parts but the parts could be sold as spare parts. The kit price for the DS3 R3T is 77500 € and kit with included standard car parts 82900 € which mean 5400 € for the standard parts.

http://boutique.citroenracing.com/cm...7cff4dee4b.pdf

Difference between the R4 kit and DS R3 MAX kit, 108000 – 77500 = 30500 €. Is it enough for the 4WD parts? In realty the money that could be used is bigger because some of the R3 parts would be removed from the kit and replaced with the 4WD parts.

[Sulland]

I hope a lot of tuners sees the opportunity with R4.
DYTKO from Poland for sure is, and has it on their facebookpage
https://www.facebook.com/sportdytko/

lets see what they come up with of price when they have the car ready!

They also have their Proto
https://www.facebook.com/ProtoCars/

[OldF]

If you grap a street fiesta 1.6 fwd with registration plates and build into a R4 and make it 4wd. The car has no official approval for the road anymore. Maybe in other country s it s more easy to get registration.

I know in finland the rally organization gives you plates you can only use during a rally.

The white red register plates are for cars that cannot be used in regular road traffic. For these vehicles the emission based vehicle tax don’t have to be paid. I don’t know if these taxes are used in any other country. For example for a Fiesta 1.0 65 Trend which CO2 emission is 99 g/km the vehicle tax is 2083 €. Price excl. vehicle tax is 12560 €. The selling price is then 12560 + 2083 = 14643 €. The vehicle tax is not to be mixed with VAT.

I don’t if it’s possible to be done in Finland (too much parts replaced) but if it is possible I think it’s done via a modification inspection. I didn’t find English version of these section but as I remember you are Swedish these shouldn’t be a problem for you.

Ändringsbesiktning (modification inspection)
https://www.trafi.fi/sv/vagtrafik/be...ingsbesiktning

Förflyttningsmärke (transfer plates)
https://www.trafi.fi/sv/vagtrafik/re...lyttningsmarke

[PLuto]

I hope a lot of tuners sees the opportunity with R4.
DYTKO from Poland for sure is, and has it on their facebookpage
https://www.facebook.com/sportdytko/

lets see what they come up with of price when they have the car ready!

They also have their Proto
https://www.facebook.com/ProtoCars/

Proto cars from Dytko are different than official R4 kits from FIA...

[Sulland]

Proto cars from Dytko are different than official R4 kits from FIA...

yes, but I think they will make the R4 from a normal shell, but modify.
If not it will not be approved.

But interessting that firms think in R4 circles to make business!

[OldF]

I hope a lot of tuners sees the opportunity with R4.
DYTKO from Poland for sure is, and has it on their facebookpage
https://www.facebook.com/sportdytko/

I had a look at the https://www.facebook.com/sportdytko/ page and the R4 kit on the page is the Oreca’s R4 kit, not Dytko’s. Enlarging the pic and looking at the right bottom of the pic, “Oreca customer service – FIA R4 kit official supplier”. Of course anyone can make a R4 kit but it won’t get a FIA homologation. It would be like the Mitsubishi Mirage R5, only for national rallies (if the national ASN approves it).

What is even more worrying is it says “The set of dampers, struts and springs are not included in the R4 kit.” If this is true 108000 € for the kit is far too much.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/sportdyt...=page_internal

Translated with Google from Polish.

“Everything points to the fact that since 2018 years the FIA will be homologated and already allowed for all international rallies broadly understood "Proto" as a new category R4! With the difference that the set of mechanical parts will be only one - the developed and approved by the French company Oreca. The putty will enter the 1.6 turbo, electronics Magneti sequential 5-speed gearbox, dedicated differentials, suspension bars, arms and fuel tank. The bodies and body kits are optional .. The only drawback is the price increase, the finished car will cost about 150 thousand € ...”

[Sulland]

I know the pics on the Dytko fb page is taken from Oreca.

And what I read was that Dytko was looking into making a R4 car, using the Oreca kit as the basis, and that Dytko was making a chassis to bolt the Oreca kit on.

The thing they were sorry about was the price of the Oreca kit, that is extremely expensive.

some times I am wondering about what salaries they have in FIA that feel that 100 000 € for a kit with engine, gearbox, struts and diffs is ok. Not many normal workers in Norway have the chance to buy a car like this, without borrowing from the bank. The sponsor market for rally in Norway is extremely tough. It seems much easier to get sponsors further south in Europe.

R4 was ment as an entryclass to 4wd, to take over from N4, then 150 k € is twice the price it should have been.
As said here it was originally planned to have a complete turn key car cost 100 k, now it is only the kit.

maybe a prototype ala the Dytko one, with a common engine + 4wd system for 40-50 k € had been a better path to take.

[PLuto]

From beginning I told that Oreca is not the best way. Or completely the way how FIA is going with direct offer to one company. It should be more cheaper than presented version...

Does anybody here price for Maxi kit in South America?

[Co-driven]

From beginning I told that Oreca is not the best way. Or completely the way how FIA is going with direct offer to one company. It should be more cheaper than presented version...

Does anybody here price for Maxi kit in South America?

Around 200 thousand dollars, plus the base car.

[AdvEvo]

Fia makes it to expensive.

The best way is to go austria rally masters m1 class.

Make street cars into rally cars.