Hyundai WRT

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Also remember that Kalle was a WRC2(Pro) champion when coming to Toyota in 2020. Toyota took a little bit of a chance letting him drive the third car on every round, putting maybe some pressure on him.

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I think that's actually where you will find the big difference in their respective career paths. For Rovanpera it made sense to make the step at the time. For Solberg it was a bit more complicated.

They both drove in Latvia as youngsters because they didn't have a licence. And as they began to beat people in Latvia started to add other championships. Rovanpera drove Latvia, Finland and Italy in 2017, Solberg did Latvia and America in 2019. They both did well at this stage, winning rallies and showing great speed and talent. Next step was WRC2 in 2018 for Rovanpera where he was fast but had some crashes, but he won a couple rallies, while Solberg was at a similar stage in 2020 racing in ERC and WRC2. Now this is perhaps the first point where Solberg lost a bit of momentum and experience because 2020 for him was to get used to being at the front in Rally2/R5 cars and it didn't help that it was a short year. The next stage for Rovanpera was full focus on WRC2 in 2019 where he won almost everything as we know, so far they had similar career steps and for Solberg this should have been 2021. But instead Adamo put him in the car on Arctic rally instead of the WRC2 as was the plan. After that he kept bouncing between the WRC2 and the WRC. Hyundai's Rally2 car was not great at the time so that plus constant switching probably confused him. Now at this point Rovanpera is a WRC2 winner having dominated the championship so Toyota decides to secure the future and put him in the car full time, the short 2020 wasn't good for him either but he had the WRC2 win behind him and he was steadily improving. Solberg got a partial season in a disorganised Hyundai team after a very confusing 2021.

I think Solberg is very talented but there was a big mistake made in his development especially when you put him side by side with Rovanpera's plan. I don't know who made the decisions of what to do, was it Adamo, the Koreans, his dad, Neuville, the Pope... In 2020 Oliver showed speed and 2021 should have been a year to focus on the WRC2 championship with some pressure and with fighting at the top but not so much to be in the main team, giving interviews etc. Most of the greats had that kind of season behind them when they went into the WRC and started to perform. That's Solberg's missing year.

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Originally Posted by seb_sh

I think that's actually where you will find the big difference in their respective career paths. For Rovanpera it made sense to make the step at the time. For Solberg it was a bit more complicated.

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Yes but my point was that this wasn't Toyota's achievement, more about Jouhki and other people behind Rovanperä. The best thing Toyota did was not buying Rovanperä out of his Skoda contract already a year before.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Yes but my point was that this wasn't Toyota's achievement, more about Jouhki and other people behind Rovanperä. The best thing Toyota did was not buying Rovanperä out of his Skoda contract already a year before.

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Agreed, they took him not too soon but also not too late, he might have gone to MSport for example.

I wasn't disagreeing just expanding :P

In hineysight too-sooners, who should have been in the half-car?

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

In hineysight too-sooners, who should have been in the half-car?

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Suninen. With all tarmac rallies, Sardinia and Safari for Sordo. Suninen should have done Sweden, Portugal, Estonia, Finland, Greece and NZ

Or they should have negotiated more with Breen, but I guess all he wanted was a full season.

EDIT: And of course guys like Mikkelsen and Østberg would have likely gotten more solid results than Solberg.

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Originally Posted by ouvreur

If that's the case, it's more proof that he's the man who set Solberg on this stupid headless course.

What's the point signing a young guy to a 2 year contract, with a promise to drive a Rally1 car in 2022, if you tear his head off every time the pressure YOU apply gets to him, and he makes a mistake? Simply put, Adamo's mind changed like the wind. One minute he's the next big thing (after Arctic), then all of a sudden he's a shit, not worthy of even driving the Rally2 (after Kenya). He's literally the last person on earth I'd entrust a young driver's development to. Compare and contrast with the way Toyota have brought Kalle to the top of the sport.

I don't blame him alone. There's clearly more to it than one man's hasty decision, and the chances to correct the course / heal the relationship have all been missed. But this train wreck was set in motion by Adamo.

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i don't know if you say all this 'cause you're internal at hiunday, and know much more than me, 'cause if not it seems to me more you fantasizing it than a depiction of reality...
never heard about what you say. only saw adamo wanting to use solberg in wrc where he know would be useful (and proved ok in arctic), and leave him to wrc2 for the rest. solbergs team were among the (or the one) first to have the new rally 2 and even. before they had plenty of time in working on the r5 car...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m...ive-/10386503/

Wait what? Meeke?? Seriously? Really makes me wonder if we'll see Hyundai beyond 2023.

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Originally Posted by Eli

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m...ive-/10386503/

Wait what? Meeke?? Seriously? Really makes me wonder if we'll see Hyundai beyond 2023.

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Neuville, Mikkelsen, Sordo/Meeke as a quartet based on good relations between them with Tanak sitting out or doing a part season somewhere else? Stranger things have happened.

Tänak today in interview to estonian media says clearly that he is driving in Hyundai next year:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/1200...hooajal-soidab

Interview itself is painful to watch due to "journalist".


edit for the comments: I just pointed out that he said it clearly, it does not mean that it's clearly the truth :)

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Originally Posted by meh

Tänak today in interview to estonian media says clearly that he is driving in Hyundai next year:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/1200...hooajal-soidab

Interview itself is painful to watch due to "journalist".

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Then no Mikkelsen haha

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Originally Posted by seb_sh

Then no Mikkelsen haha

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Why not share third car with Sordo?

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

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Originally Posted by bomber21

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

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I know what you mean, it’s surprising to hear so often from rally guys…

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Originally Posted by bomber21

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

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Kris Meeke is 43

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Kris Meeke is 43

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I know there is no real justification for Meeke getting a drive, but I would like him to.
There is just something about him that makes for intrigue. I guess it’s the possibility of stage wins or crashes.
As crash prone and unreliable as he is, he does have the speed and ability to set amazing stage times which makes me want to watch.

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Originally Posted by bomber21

I never understand rally drivers saying “I want to do some rallies but not all of them because I want to spend time with my family”.

Have you ever heard F1 drivers saying something similar?!

Come on, they suppose to live the dream, this is their passion and their way of living and they want to spend time with the family at 35 years old??

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It’s because it’s not possible in F1. I think Vettel, Rosberg etc would be happy to do just some classic events like Spa, Monza, Suzuka and give those ugly Tilkedromes to some young guns.

There is 20 more drivers in line in F1 in case anybody leaves. In WRC, teams would be glad to use Loeb or Ogier even for single event, because they are still much much better than anybody in WRC2.

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Originally Posted by Kenneth

There is 20 more drivers in line in F1 in case anybody leaves. In WRC, teams would be glad to use Loeb or Ogier even for single event, because they are still much much better than anybody in WRC2.

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Also the surface and road changes between rally must be far more variable than in F1 making the case for potential specialists for each event.

I would have thought its a straight shootout between Mikelson and Paddon to partner Sordo, I imagine it will be Mikelson when you include the influence of Neuville.
History is on Paddons side when Sordo and Paddon partnered up in the third car and did extremely well.

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

Also the surface and road changes between rally must be far more variable than in F1 making the case for potential specialists for each event.

I would have thought its a straight shootout between Mikelson and Paddon to partner Sordo, I imagine it will be Mikelson when you include the influence of Neuville.
History is on Paddons side when Sordo and Paddon partnered up in the third car and did extremely well.

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History is not on Paddon's side because he has been out of WRC for about what, 5-7 years and getting beaten in Rally2. Don't count on NZ result because he didn't have any real competition there. Mikkelsen is clear favourite if you have to choose between them because he has been behind the wheel for years at WRC2 / Rally2 and winning constantly.

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Originally Posted by meh

Tänak today in interview to estonian media says clearly that he is driving in Hyundai next year:
https://sport.delfi.ee/artikkel/1200...hooajal-soidab

Interview itself is painful to watch due to "journalist".

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Safe to say that my bet of everyone staying put looks to be coming true.

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Originally Posted by Tauri_J

Safe to say that my bet of everyone staying put looks to be coming true.

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Tänak has been misleading the media before so I would'nt take that interview very seriously specially considering that it was done by Martinson who is considered the fool of estonian sports journalists. Tänak likes to fool around with fools and by the looks of his grin my guess he is just messing around

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Originally Posted by Eli

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m...ive-/10386503/

Wait what? Meeke?? Seriously? Really makes me wonder if we'll see Hyundai beyond 2023.

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If Hyundai's 2023 is anything like their 2022, I expect they'll leave. After all, from a business perspective, they're spending tons of money on their WRC program as a form of advertising. They want people to see a cool Hyundai car and think "hey I like Hyundai, my next car should be one".

Well, this year: overall they've been soundly trounced by Toyota. Their top driver is constantly and publicly complaining that the car is trash. Most of the news articles about them discuss how dysfunctional the team is.

I hope they do better in 2023 and I hope they stay. But as it stands now, would a Hyundai boss look at this state of affairs and think that viewers are going to be persuaded to buy a Hyundai?

Well, first a Hyundai boss should make a decision at last to hire a new team manager or make Moncet a permanent one and not a deputy.

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Originally Posted by cali

Tänak has been misleading the media before so I would'nt take that interview very seriously specially considering that it was done by Martinson who is considered the fool of estonian sports journalists. Tänak likes to fool around with fools and by the looks of his grin my guess he is just messing around

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I still remember 2017. First he said to David Evans at the M-Sport event that he's staying at M-Sport for 2018, and then he wrote in his Delfi column that the rumors about him changing teams are ridiculous.

But that's how it is, you cannot say anything in advance.

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Originally Posted by speederbee

If Hyundai's 2023 is anything like their 2022, I expect they'll leave. After all, from a business perspective, they're spending tons of money on their WRC program as a form of advertising. They want people to see a cool Hyundai car and think "hey I like Hyundai, my next car should be one".

Well, this year: overall they've been soundly trounced by Toyota. Their top driver is constantly and publicly complaining that the car is trash. Most of the news articles about them discuss how dysfunctional the team is.

I hope they do better in 2023 and I hope they stay. But as it stands now, would a Hyundai boss look at this state of affairs and think that viewers are going to be persuaded to buy a Hyundai?

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Well, if all they want is for the general public to think the i20 is cool, they've probably succeeded. It looks cool and (apart from when there's a problem) you can't tell, without looking at the results, if one winged-up Rally1 car is faster than another.

Not one person outside the 'bubble' that is being a WRC employee or fan could give two shits who's driving them, what they had for lunch, how happy they are in the team, or what they plan to do next year. The internal strife at Hyundai has literally zero impact on perception among the general public of rallying.

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Originally Posted by bomber21

Well, first a Hyundai boss should make a decision at last to hire a new team manager or make Moncet a permanent one and not a deputy.

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That decision has already been made - Mr Neuville is the team boss, and that is how it has been and will stay as long as he's there!

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Originally Posted by cali

History is not on Paddon's side because he has been out of WRC for about what, 5-7 years and getting beaten in Rally2. Don't count on NZ result because he didn't have any real competition there. Mikkelsen is clear favourite if you have to choose between them because he has been behind the wheel for years at WRC2 / Rally2 and winning constantly.

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Mikkelsen's been out for a long time also, in fact one year less than Paddon and those two years in Hyundai weren't great. Paddon won RNZ by a mile and came third in Finland in a brand-new car he had to rebuild and after recovering from Covid with a tiny team after not driving Finland for a while, it was the drive that was needed. Im not saying Paddon should be first choice and I agree Mikkelsen will likely get the job but has he improved since the last time he was in a WRC car and what makes this time any different? The last time Paddon was in a WRC for a full rally he came 2nd, vs Mikkelsen's 6th.
What they should be doing is matching a driving style to the car, so a driver is comfortable from the getgo.

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

Mikkelsen's been out for a long time also, in fact one year less than Paddon and those two years in Hyundai weren't great. Paddon won RNZ by a mile and came third in Finland in a brand-new car he had to rebuild and after recovering from Covid with a tiny team after not driving Finland for a while, it was the drive that was needed. Im not saying Paddon should be first choice and I agree Mikkelsen will likely get the job but has he improved since the last time he was in a WRC car and what makes this time any different? The last time Paddon was in a WRC for a full rally he came 2nd, vs Mikkelsen's 6th.
What they should be doing is matching a driving style to the car, so a driver is comfortable from the getgo.

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Mikkelsen has been driving WRC2 all the time so he's essentially been in WRC, getting to know the new rallies and new stages. Paddon has been just doing events in New Zealand.

Paddon might have been third in WRC2 in Finland, but in stage times he was only once in top three. And in NZ there was no competition.

I like Paddon as a character and he was good as a gravel driver pair to Sordo, but sadly I wouldn't pick him for a Rally1 seat over Mikkelsen right now, especially not for a full-time seat.

I cannot see Mikkelsen going back to Hyundai, been there done that. Mikkelsen is like the Kopecky of this era with Skoda. Could Lappi be lured to Hyundai for a full season drive if he promises not to complain about the car?

Paddon 35yrs, Mikkelsen 33year, Lappi 31, Suninen 28, then even amongst the other Finns - Huttunen, Lindholm etc (Pajari would have been something 7 or 8 years old when Paddon drove his first Rally Finland and yet Pajari (at 20 years old) was faster than Paddon, this year)

Paddon sort of made a mistake in my opinion of not building the Hyundai AP4 in left hand drive, even though he has said it does not effect him. The Australian Toyota yaris GR AP4 have been built as left hand drive for Harry Bates.
Any wild cards - from the Spanish, Italian, French, another Belgian. etc?

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Originally Posted by Humber

Could Lappi be lured to Hyundai for a full season drive

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No, I think he's happy with a partial program at Toyota and he doesn't want to repeat his Citroen mistake.

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Originally Posted by Humber

Any wild cards - from the Spanish, Italian, French, another Belgian. etc?

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Hyundai wants an experienced driver, not a wild card.

You have Mikkelsen, Suninen, Östberg, Paddon and Meeke available with previous WRC experience.

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Originally Posted by Humber

Paddon drove his first Rally Finland and yet Pajari (at 20 years old) was faster than Paddon, this year)

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I guess you don't get the gravity of buying a new car and needing to ship it back to NZ the next day after the rally in order to get it back to the single biggest rally of your carreer to ensure sponsors and your country get to see you rally, Vs someone on a home rally with nothing to lose. The smart move was to complete the rally with no risk, gaining valuable seat time in a new car and knowledge for a crack at it next year. Its logical and smart and that's how he played it. That has no meaning on his pace whats so ever but I can see I'm not getting anywhere with logic.

Yeah, surely he can convince team bosses "I could have driven faster"

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Originally Posted by Toyoda

I guess you don't get the gravity of buying a new car and needing to ship it back to NZ the next day after the rally in order to get it back to the single biggest rally of your carreer to ensure sponsors and your country get to see you rally, Vs someone on a home rally with nothing to lose. The smart move was to complete the rally with no risk, gaining valuable seat time in a new car and knowledge for a crack at it next year. Its logical and smart and that's how he played it. That has no meaning on his pace whats so ever but I can see I'm not getting anywhere with logic.

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Logic... Right...
I like Paddon as well but his performance so far has not impressed many of us here and I dare think any of team bosses as well.
Even if we are fans of somebody we need to be fair and look at the things as they are and not making up some fantasies.
Very likeable bloke though and I would like to see him more in WRC though his Rally1 chances are slim.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Hyundai wants an experienced driver, not a wild card.

You have Mikkelsen, Suninen, Östberg, Paddon and Meeke available with previous WRC experience.

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With Meeke you get both though. Experienced wild card.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g0qiAa_gY


Interesting comment by Neuville. That he is been pushing to keep Ott as his teammate, so kinda sounds like He hasnt made up his mind yet, where he will be driving next year.

Also Gus'es comment is also interesting, who else he could be reffering to at 36:58: Everyone is waiting for a certain person to decide where he wants to go

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Originally Posted by Rallyest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g0qiAa_gY


Interesting comment by Neuville. That he is been pushing to keep Ott as his teammate, so kinda sounds like He hasnt made up his mind yet, where he will be driving next year.

Also Gus'es comment is also interesting, who else he could be reffering to at 36:58: Everyone is waiting for a certain person to decide where he wants to go

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Exactly . And todays news from Toyota camp that they still haven’t locked their lineup and hope to do it on rally Japan

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Originally Posted by Rallyest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g0qiAa_gY

Also Gus'es comment is also interesting, who else he could be reffering to at 36:58: Everyone is waiting for a certain person to decide where he wants to go

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Evans deciding between M-Sport or Hyundai? :D

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Evans deciding between M-Sport or Hyundai? :D

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Well, lets say in a scenario where Tänak goes to Toyota, who's seat will he take? My bet would be Evans. SO if things would go that way, then Evans would need to take that decision, either to go to a team with no budget or go to a team that has a car notorious for its lack of drivability. :D so i wouldnt toss that idea completely out of the window

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Exactly . And todays news from Toyota camp that they still haven’t locked their lineup and hope to do it on rally Japan

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For a brief second i was pretty certain Tänak will remain at Hyundai, but now when everyone is throwing theese hints around, i am not so sure anymore. Sometimes looks like they are all in it together to start theese ruomors for fun, and then decide in their circle what fun hint should someone drop and where, just to mess with us rallyfans :D