Citroen WRT

Loeb's website:
"With Hyundai, my first mission will be to help them get the constructors title and support Thierry Neuville, the number 1 driver. The team's speech is clear and I'm fine with it.

I willingly accept this position number 2 or 3 and ride with less pressure, to please me, and in order to bring them points when I'm starting a rally.

This does not mean that I lost my soul as a competitor. Once the helmet on the head, I would give everything to make the best possible result, as I have always done, but the approach is different."

So he is happy to support Hyundai & Neuville, then I see no reason why he wouldn't have done the same for Citroen/Ogier.

The only reason was they wouldn't pay for a third car.

I find it difficult to believe sponsorship could not have been found for a third citroen for Loeb (share Ostberg/ Breen), especially when the amount of sponsorship is thrown at formula one back runners who only get limited coverage when they crash, power unit blows up, passed by a front runner etc.
Did citroen just not want to run a third car in different livery or is ogier costing them that much extra as a 3rd car?

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Originally Posted by Zeakiwi

I find it difficult to believe sponsorship could not have been found for a third citroen for Loeb (share Ostberg/ Breen), especially when the amount of sponsorship is thrown at formula one back runners who only get limited coverage when they crash, power unit blows up, passed by a front runner etc.
Did citroen just not want to run a third car in different livery or is ogier costing them that much extra as a 3rd car?

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It's unfathomable if this was genuinely a money issue. Collectively PSA, Total and Red Bull couldn't fund six rounds for Loeb? At the very least, what happened to the Peugeot WRX budget and RB/Total sponsorship money destined for the canned 2019 program?

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Originally Posted by Zeakiwi

I find it difficult to believe sponsorship could not have been found for a third citroen for Loeb (share Ostberg/ Breen), especially when the amount of sponsorship is thrown at formula one back runners who only get limited coverage when they crash, power unit blows up, passed by a front runner etc.
Did citroen just not want to run a third car in different livery or is ogier costing them that much extra as a 3rd car?

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You will see if anyone else will drive that third car. I don't think so. This Citroen ''project'' sounds like privater to me not Works team.

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Originally Posted by the sniper

It's unfathomable if this was genuinely a money issue. Collectively PSA, Total and Red Bull couldn't fund six rounds for Loeb? At the very least, what happened to the Peugeot WRX budget and RB/Total sponsorship money destined for the canned 2019 program?

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of course they could, in the end 1 extra car doesn't have that big of an impact on their budget.

they just didn't want to.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

of course they could, in the end 1 extra car doesn't have that big of an impact on their budget.

they just didn't want to.

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Ofcourse it's about allocating your money and having a budget in the first place. PSA Group, with its €3B free cash flow, could easily run 10 cars in every single WRC round if they wanted to. But that's not how you run it.

The only reason was they wouldn't pay for a third car.[/QUOTE]

Did you know Sebastien Loeb was the highest paid employee in the PSA group? (I'm not saying for the duration of his time there, but for a certain period of time he was).

He is one of France's greatest sportsman and he will generate an unrivalled amount of publicity for any team he drives for.

When you say Citroen wouldn't pay for a third car, have you considered why? Please don't say it is financial, because it most certainly isn't. They have chosen not to run him.

Let's see what happens the first time he's leading Neuville.... I really don't think he will just roll over and let him past.

Those words on his website are all nice and fluffy, but they may not mean much at all when the flag drops.

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Originally Posted by T16

Did you know Sebastien Loeb was the highest paid employee in the PSA group? (I'm not saying for the duration of his time there, but for a certain period of time he was).

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With Le Maestro's CV, that certainly doesn't come as a surprise. I bet Neuville is making more than most - if not all - of Hyundai's board members.

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Originally Posted by T16

Let's see what happens the first time he's leading Neuville.... I really don't think he will just roll over and let him past.

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Unless he's asked (you just don't give orders to a 9-time champ, do you?) to do so... And that's a big ask for Penasse and Nandan to proceed with. Although I have to say, that no matter how brilliant Loeb's 2018 in WRC was, I don't think we'll see him master Neuville in a Hyundai anytime soon. I'd be more than happy to be wrong with that prediction though :D

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Originally Posted by T16

Did you know Sebastien Loeb was the highest paid employee in the PSA group? (I'm not saying for the duration of his time there, but for a certain period of time he was).

He is one of France's greatest sportsman and he will generate an unrivalled amount of publicity for any team he drives for.

When you say Citroen wouldn't pay for a third car, have you considered why? Please don't say it is financial, because it most certainly isn't. They have chosen not to run him.

Let's see what happens the first time he's leading Neuville.... I really don't think he will just roll over and let him past.

Those words on his website are all nice and fluffy, but they may not mean much at all when the flag drops.

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When CC first mooted the Loeb-to-Hyundai idea, he said another good reason was that it wouldnt cost that much. He didnt believe he commanded a huge salary.

Also, if Citroen just chose not to run Loeb, why arent they running a third factory car with another driver ?

It's money.

Remember they have only had two cars in the last two seasons. They even struggled to pay for proper testing for some events like GB..

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

When CC first mooted the Loeb-to-Hyundai idea, he said another good reason was that it wouldnt cost that much. He didnt believe he commanded a huge salary.

Also, if Citroen just chose not to run Loeb, why arent they running a third factory car with another driver ?

It's money.

Remember they have only had two cars in the last two seasons. They even struggled to pay for proper testing for some events like GB..

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a) I really can’t bring myself to take into account Colin Clarke’s guess work when it comes to salaries.

b)... and I appreciate this is my guess work, but Loeb the brand brings enough exposure to make it worthwhile for Citroen financially.

c) who on earth else would they put in a car for six events, that could, as he could, win most of them?

The problem isn’t cash, it’s that they would look stupid if he beat Ogier and took valuable points off his WDC campain.
Remember Ogier’s noises about guest drivers and how much of a bad idea they now are, just before PSA dropped Loeb? No coincidence.
And to be fair, I don’t blame them.

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Originally Posted by T16

a) I really can’t bring myself to take into account Colin Clarke’s guess work when it comes to salaries.

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With the more reliable source being...?

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Originally Posted by T16

b)... and I appreciate this is my guess work, but Loeb the brand brings enough exposure to make it worthwhile for Citroen financially.

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Just out of curiosity; what kind of calculation is this guess based on?

Then the right thing to do now is to give everything and make sure that Citroen will not win any title next year.

Many (wo)men also get along fine with their exes, but they still are exes...
Money was ofc a partial reason and a nice excuse, but in the end relationships are more complicated.

First hint was Ogier complaining about only partial program (if it would help him next year, then he wouldn`t, probably) etc etc. Life is not black and white.

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Originally Posted by Allez Andruet

With the more reliable source being...?


Just out of curiosity; what kind of calculation is this guess based on?

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I am not saying there is someone out there, who currently discusses drivers wages and does so accurately. I am simply saying I don't think Colin Clarke is an accurate source. Are you?

Loeb has been PSA's golden boy for many years. They have found him a job, allowed him to come and go seemingly, to whichever series he wants and when he wants.
Like I said, guesswork on my part, but you have to be completely out of touch with motorsport to not see that PSA have got quite a lot out of him being on their payroll. So that's my calculation.

please excuse my dodgy use of quotations etc... I'm not too good at it.

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Originally Posted by T16

I am not saying there is someone out there, who currently discusses drivers wages and does so accurately. I am simply saying I don't think Colin Clarke is an accurate source. Are you?

Loeb has been PSA's golden boy for many years. They have found him a job, allowed him to come and go seemingly, to whichever series he wants and when he wants.
Like I said, guesswork on my part, but you have to be completely out of touch with motorsport to not see that PSA have got quite a lot out of him being on their payroll. So that's my calculation.

please excuse my dodgy use of quotations etc... I'm not too good at it.

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You said running Loeb 6 rounds would bring them enough exposure to be worthwhile. Basically sponsors would start offering millions to Citroen? Or the car sales would go way-way up?
IMO they wouldn't get even near that amount of money. And they already have one multiple world champion. But some could also think there's no room for 2 Sebs in one team or Hyundai just made a better offer. Anyway, I don't think Citroen deserves all the criticism. They are in WRC for a long run, I'm already happy that they didn't pull out, now with Ogier even better. I don't care much about the manu title though and probably many fans don't think it's a big thing. Next season definitely more interesting than 2018 and last time Citroen driver had a chance for WDC was a long time ago. Can't wait.

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Originally Posted by dnb

You said running Loeb 6 rounds would bring them enough exposure to be worthwhile. Basically sponsors would start offering millions to Citroen? Or the car sales would go way-way up?
IMO they wouldn't get even near that amount of money. And they already have one multiple world champion. But some could also think there's no room for 2 Sebs in one team or Hyundai just made a better offer. Anyway, I don't think Citroen deserves all the criticism. They are in WRC for a long run, I'm already happy that they didn't pull out, now with Ogier even better. I don't care much about the manu title though and probably many fans don't think it's a big thing. Next season definitely more interesting than 2018 and last time Citroen driver had a chance for WDC was a long time ago. Can't wait.

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Yes, I do think Loeb carries a lot of value, especially if he wins some of the six rounds.. Citroen we’re making noises about using him this year until recently.

Personally, like I said above, I’m not blaming or criticising Citroen, I think two sebs in that team is one too many, especially now Seb 2 has seen that Seb 1 is still pretty tasty behind the wheel.

Loeb says he doesnt think he will be faster than the current driver's. And he did win in Spain with an inspired tyre choice, not by dominating the whole rally.

"I stopped rally competition for more than five years. I don't have any more the rhythm of the current drivers, or their knowledge of the rallies in general."

The WRC's champion, Sebastien Ogier, acknowledged that he does not want to be treated as a "number one" driver in Citroën, unless the development of the season requires it. According to the French, the M-Sport strategies used in 2018 are not part of their plans for the first rallies of the year. The opinion was shared by his new partner, Esapekka Lappi. The Finn confessed that he feels a "number two" driver, but warned that he will fight to subdue the Gaul while there are conditions of equality.
"I do not want any number one status on the team," said Ogier at Autosport. "For me, we would have to have the same opportunities as long as we both have equal chances to fight for the title. If one pilot is able to do it and the other is not, then it is logical to give some support. But at this moment we will start the season with the same opportunities. Esapekka (Lappi) has talent and will be able to bring interesting things from her old team. "
During the past season, Ogier was benefited by the help of his teammates to obtain the drivers' title. His former M-Sport colleagues, Elfyn Evans and Teemu Suninen, complied with numerous team orders that were crucial in some rallies as the fight for the championship came to an end. However, the Frenchman does not want to repeat this context, at least at the beginning of this year.
"It is true that there were times when I received help from my teammates," said the Citroën driver. "But that's not the way I want to start this season. My objective is to win the title on my own, since in most of my career it has been that way ".
On the other hand, Esapekka Lappi joined the double chevron brand with the consent that the manufacturer will deposit his maximum options to the title in Sebastien Ogier. Despite this, the Finn is not willing to benefit the French, unless the development in the fight for the championship requires it.
"It's pretty clear who is number one and who is number two," said Lappi. "Until now, I do not know how Seb (Ogier) will act. We'll see what happens as the season progresses. If I am not in the fight for the victory of the general classification, it is quite clear that I will give him my space as his colleagues in M-Sport have done. It's part of the game. But, if I am a leader in Monte Carlo and he is behind, I will not give him any space, since we will start the season at the same level ".
After his first tests, Lappi was more confident in his decision to have moved to the Citroën team. "The handling of the C3 is very good and if we improve some details, it will be the fastest car without any doubt," said the Finn in Rallye Magazin. So far, Lappi only knew the Toyota Yaris WRC. After making his first kilometers on the C3, the Nordic pilot noted the biggest differences between the Japanese car and the French.
"The view from the Citroën is smaller, because the windshield is narrower and the hood is very high. On the other hand, the front of the Toyota has a much more pronounced descent. So you have to sit higher on the C3, "explained Lappi. In addition to this, the Finn was impressed with the driver of the Citroën. "The engine has more power at high rpm, although the Toyota engine has better stability. In terms of power transmission, the Citroën is clearly ahead. On land it seems that we have noticed a great potential that we want to take advantage of ", concluded Lappi.

http://motorboxradio.com.ar/2019/01/...in-beneficios/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...aaf3eee2a7.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ba179769be.jpg

Oh my. Esapekka in those colors look ridiculous.

yeah, even Ingrassia is weird to look at

reminded me circus clowns at first sight (i hope i didnt offend anyone with this)

The red army are (properly) back

https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...7f&oe=5CD330C9
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtLoCsWsAIEbfg.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtTgy5WwAIUzXw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtTgyuWsAAXm9x.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtTge9WkAA40Vk.jpg

they kinda recycled the ds3 design.

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/imag...-WRC-36228.jpg

I like the front a lot. I the rear the blue bumper seems to ruin it a bit, but the pics don't show it well.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

they kinda recycled the ds3 design.

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Not really, this time they don't carry a big Czech flag on the car like they did in 2011 :D

oh boy...weirdly this livery makes it look more like a R5 car than WRC to my eye. it doesnt looks so massive and agressive as others

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtYqxjXgAEQ6yL.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtYqxrWwAAD-x2.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtYqxkWkAUfGMl.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwtYqxjXcAU4bG-.jpg

/\ /\
C3 in gravel-spec on a tarmac road doesnt help it in those photos.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

they kinda recycled the ds3 design.

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/imag...-WRC-36228.jpg

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I prefer this design with the door handle being the same color as that same part of the livery....

Citroen 'has to win' WRC after signing Sebastien Ogier, says boss.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/1...-signing-ogier

I like that Budar doesn't speak some ambiguous political nonsense but gives himself a clear and publicly presented goal to win the championship. Thumbs-up from me and good luck!

I was thinking: is Lappi the first Finnish factory Citroen driver? The only other guy I could think of was Kimi, but as far as I remember he only had a run in the Junior B-team and then set up his own team in the DS3, right?

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Originally Posted by steve.mandzij

I was thinking: is Lappi the first Finnish factory Citroen driver? The only other guy I could think of was Kimi, but as far as I remember he only had a run in the Junior B-team and then set up his own team in the DS3, right?

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Hirvonen. ;)

it would be quite the embarassment if citroen is the first car that Ogier does not win the title in the B.L era.

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Originally Posted by the sniper

Hirvonen. ;)

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Oh of course! D: I really need to up my trivia game...

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Originally Posted by the sniper

Hirvonen. ;)

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And both Pauli and Henri Toivonen way before him.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

I like that Budar doesn't speak some ambiguous political nonsense but gives himself a clear and publicly presented goal to win the championship. Thumbs-up from me and good luck!

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Yep, it’s great to see Citroen motivated and ready to give a proper fight, but they’re not runing alone so no one can promise they’ll eventually win a title (or even both, if we take Budar’s words too literally). For now I’d be happy to see them being able to figth for the win at any event, something they’ve missed for a long time. Fingers crossed!
Yesterday talk here: https://youtu.be/xznDf5zRDK8?t=9788

i dont know if this was already posted here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz3ApCL6GuU


looks so much better with daylight through camera

Anyone knows an explanation for "1919" on the back?