[WRC] News & rumours (part IV) 2016

There's a good reason why the sport has changed in comparison to how it was 30/40/50 years ago. You can see that in every sport there's some evolution. In rallying much more than anywhere else as you are dealing with technology, but also with a constant changing society. Things that were considered normal in those days are (unfortunately) unacceptable today... Things like endless recce/training, even with competition cars, weeks before big events, were normal back then, but it almost killed the sport. Ask some well-informed person from the UK why there's almost no tarmac rallying left in the UK. Also the roadside service is something unthinkable today. Not only because it's unpractical for other traffic (cars and vans often being half on the road), but also because of the added danger of the extra "rally" created by service vans that try to meet the drivers as often as possible. Same goes for the rally on public roads as the Safari Rally was. Today it's hard enough already for organizers to make an event happen.

I would love to see longer events with more days, more different stages, night stages, mixed surfaces etc. But you have to be realistic. Most people here have more or less an idea of the cost of running a rallycar, very few have an idea of the cost of organizing an event... ;)

No reason to get upset with people that like the past, it is sad that their best and happiest years have gone long time now but you should be sympathetic to those that have no future to look forward to.

The human kind is at the top of the food chain because it adapts and evolves and always looking forward.

Paddon's Q&A with fans on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/haydenpaddo...type=3&theater

There are more "news" and interesting topics debated on that link than in David Evans portfolio.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Do You actually believe that thinking about some utopia helps anything? What was in 60th was in 60th. It won't come back no matter how much You wish it come. There are more than enough reasons why. Maybe it's better to get used to the fact that the sport is not like it used to be.

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So, Mirek, what do you want the rallysport to be. Ruled by moneyinterested men in boarding rooms wanting shootouts last day to determine the winner? No man.

I don´t say we should have Monte back the way it was in the 60´s. But we can´t make WRC a circuitracing sport either.
It has to be more endurance, maybe longer rallies and why not rules not allowing current extreme costcars.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

No reason to get upset with people that like the past, it is sad that their best and happiest years have gone long time now but you should be sympathetic to those that have no future to look forward to.

The human kind is at the top of the food chain because it adapts and evolves and always looking forward.

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So you too like the way WRC has gone? Soon it will be on closed circuits and you´ll love it?

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

So you too like the way WRC has gone? Soon it will be on closed circuits and you´ll love it?

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What indications you have that we are going to a closed circuit format ? the fact that we do not have 200 stages and average speeds of 30 km/hr driven by hamburger boys rather than athletes ?

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

What indications you have that we are going to a closed circuit format ? the fact that we do not have 200 stages and average speeds of 30 km/hr driven by hamburger boys rather than athletes ?

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Isn´t it what you used to say yourself?

What are You saying, NOT is NOTing himself already?

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

So, Mirek, what do you want the rallysport to be. Ruled by moneyinterested men in boarding rooms wanting shootouts last day to determine the winner? No man.

I don´t say we should have Monte back the way it was in the 60´s. But we can´t make WRC a circuitracing sport either.
It has to be more endurance, maybe longer rallies and why not rules not allowing current extreme costcars.

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Dear Per, I know some of You don't like my point of view but I believe that the only reasonable way to think about the problem is to try to be as reaslistic as possible. Why shall I even bother thinking about returning of the 60' style of RMC when I know that it's nothing but past which will never be brought back? Nobody is intrested in it except several fans on the internet and that's why I scrap the idea. Teams, organizers, FIA, none of them is going to support such idea so why to bother even thinking about it? It's waste of time, nothing more.

It's the same kind of discussion like about bringing back the gr.A regulations. I always try to see what is reaslistic. And those fat managers bringing silly ideas are actually very important because it's them who bring billions into the sport and keep it running. They don't do it out of fun, they want something back because otherwise they won't do it at all. And that's the core of everything. You can call it viscious circle or whatever but You can't do a shit without them and even if they come with silly ideas like Capito does You can only hope other teams and FIA will keep things somewhat under control. But the point is that Capito can come with such a silly idea because he is in the position which allows him to do that. We are not and that's why it's necessary to try to see the things from their point of view to understand what is realistically possible and what is not. If I clearly know about some idea that all these managers will say no, I know also that such idea isn't worth discussing.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Isn´t it what you used to say yourself?

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no

Mirek is making a strong point here. We can wish everything possible and impossible, but the big money, that run the sport, still comes from manufacturers and large sponsors. And organize something to influcence them is beyond possible, I guess. By simply turning away from sport, all we can make is closing of championship, because noone is interested and manufacturers would no longer care. They can do without wrc, to be honest. Fans can express opinions to organizers and FIA, but they are not obliged to use them.
And yes, as world has changed a lot, new focus for wrc needs to be found. All around is much more civilised and comfortable, than it was 30 or even 20 years ago. New generations don't really care about rallying as challenge of worlds best drivers, because they have never driven off pavement, not to mention sideways. So, you need to find solution to make rally appeal as an adventure to them or make it closer and more understandable (and possibly, boring). Something like that...

Even if money or investors weren't a problem that is impossible.
Come on guys everything is connected with context. Nowadays the world is much different from 60's in many levels.
Do you think cars have the same appeal than now?
Do you think internet, mobile phones, this forum don't play a role in defining a product like WRC?
Do you think car marketing is the same?
Do you think cars are the same?
Do you think fans are looking for the same things?

I can continue for hours...

No

Indeed in order to have a better sport one should not try to "make it how it was x years ago" but instead make a quality series that is relevant today. I don't mean throwing away everything but you also need to adapt to the context.

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Originally Posted by AL14

I know this is not very much popular but I would rather prefer 25 good cars with good drivers and more variety than going always in the same roads with the same stages run for decades.
Of course iconic events have a unique allure and I'm the first one to love them but we can't run the same 13/14 events for ever.

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He has a point. The only endless classic is Monte... Apart from that more or less every event can be done without if you think about it, even my own beloved sweden. Sweden and GB have strong cases to stay as they have been for long but let's be realistic, none of them are irreplaceable.

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Originally Posted by Martins Tolks

Mirek is making a strong point here. We can wish everything possible and impossible, but the big money, that run the sport, still comes from manufacturers and large sponsors. And organize something to influcence them is beyond possible, I guess. By simply turning away from sport, all we can make is closing of championship, because noone is interested and manufacturers would no longer care. They can do without wrc, to be honest. Fans can express opinions to organizers and FIA, but they are not obliged to use them.
And yes, as world has changed a lot, new focus for wrc needs to be found. All around is much more civilised and comfortable, than it was 30 or even 20 years ago. New generations don't really care about rallying as challenge of worlds best drivers, because they have never driven off pavement, not to mention sideways. So, you need to find solution to make rally appeal as an adventure to them or make it closer and more understandable (and possibly, boring). Something like that...

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We already have RX for those kind of spectators.

You guys are hooked up on "back to 60´s" but it isn´t really what is meant.
However rallying is about running cars on remote specialstages.

The important thing is that rallying (WRC) keeps it soul, it might be from the 50`or 60`no matter what. But trying to recast rallying to something else that is not rallying? No way for me!

Most of You are probably right and there’s no need to get back to 2wd low tech machines, 600 kms of stages and all week long rallys, but for God’s sake, why can’t the FIA and the Promoter be wiser and respect a bit more WRC strong heritage? Why do they insist on a sort of rally formula franchising, with similar sprint rallys all over the world? Can’t they see that model has failed?

WRC needs MC historic charisma, Sweden winter conditions, Portugal’s public passion, Finland’s chalenching roads or Britain’s unique season finale. This is a heritage that can’t be wasted. It may be true that every event can be replaced, but we’re still missing NZ or Sanremo and we know the series have become poor without them. WRC is an institution and institutions can only progress and get stronger if they respect their own past.

FIA must forget calendar rotation and spreading WRC to countries with no rally tradition. The 9 to 5 schedule and the clover leaf format are totally wasted. Current WRC organizers should be allowed to reinvent their rally routes: let them use different schedules and layouts. WRC cars high tech development must be restricted and car homologation procedures simplified: we need more makes and models, especially in lower categories. Young driver’s programs and local crew’s participation should be promoted.

It’s not easy to revamp WRC. But if FIA doesn’t take rally sport as a whole and respect its spirit it’ll never succeed.

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Most of You are probably right and there’s no need to get back to 2wd low tech machines, 600 kms of stages and all week long rallys, but for God’s sake, why can’t the FIA and the Promoter be wiser and respect a bit more WRC strong heritage? Why do they insist on a sort of rally formula franchising, with similar sprint rallys all over the world? Can’t they see that model has failed?

WRC needs MC historic charisma, Sweden winter conditions, Portugal’s public passion, Finland’s chalenching roads or Britain’s unique season finale. This is a heritage that can’t be wasted. It may be true that every event can be replaced, but we’re still missing NZ or Sanremo and we know the series have become poor without them. WRC is an institution and institutions can only progress and get stronger if they respect their own past.

FIA must forget calendar rotation and spreading WRC to countries with no rally tradition. The 9 to 5 schedule and the clover leaf format are totally wasted. Current WRC organizers should be allowed to reinvent their rally routes: let them use different schedules and layouts. WRC cars high tech development must be restricted and car homologation procedures simplified: we need more makes and models, especially in lower categories. Young driver’s programs and local crew’s participation should be promoted.

It’s not easy to revamp WRC. But if FIA doesn’t take rally sport as a whole and respect its spirit it’ll never succeed.

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That was spot on!! +100 !!

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

We already have RX for those kind of spectators.

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This is exactly wrong thinking. For whom than the WRC is? It's for people who buy cars. This is how it's seen by manufacturers and it's rightful to see it as such. The society and the public reception of cars has changed hugely. Nowadays very few car buyers care about mechanical side of the product, about engines and gearboxes. Most of them don't even open the bonnet. You may rightfully dislike that (such as I do) but for many people today the more important thing about their car is that it works with their smartphone, have a big LCD screen, radar cruise control and can park automatically. This is where we got.

On the other hand I agree that WRC shall use more it's heritage and try to show more real stories. That's definitely good thing to do because rallying has a very big potential for creating stories. But than You have the RedBull as promoter and it's not difficult to see a clear pattern in anything RedBull does.

Of course me too I agree to not forget the past, learn from it and keep safe the soul and meaning of what rally is about. This is clear and I think we all agree on that.

What's really wrong today is that a promoter like RedBull sees the presence of 5 manufacturers and 13 new countries willing to enter the championship as an accomplishment rather than a "start". They are happy because there will be more money but I think it is actually a unique occasion to improve the product on many levels. I don't know if it will happen...
This is a more important problem of WRC nowadays in my opinion.

Sardegna & Corsica on the line of fire and if they don't move back to mainland, France & Italy will be out alltogether from the calendar according to Motorsport Monday.

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...apart from the fact the season opener is in France.

Sardegna's slot in the calendar would be a nice time of year to go to NZ and, realistically, who has been making more noise about running their event as part of the WRC? Some of those 13 events 'ready' to host a round of the WRC are a total surprise.

Croatia, for example, has a long established event (though no longer part of the ERC anymore) and others are part of ERC/APRC but where in the hell did Canada, Chile and Korea come from? I was surprised when I looked at the MERC calendar that there is no Abu Dhabi event but there's so much money spilling out of UAE I'm sure they would be able to put on a rally to WRC Commission/FIA/Red Bull's standards at the first attempt.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

This is exactly wrong thinking. For whom than the WRC is? It's for people who buy cars. This is how it's seen by manufacturers and it's rightful to see it as such. The society and the public reception of cars has changed hugely. Nowadays very few car buyers care about mechanical side of the product, about engines and gearboxes. Most of them don't even open the bonnet. You may rightfully dislike that (such as I do) but for many people today the more important thing about their car is that it works with their smartphone, have a big LCD screen, radar cruise control and can park automatically. This is where we got.

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This is one of these 'truths' that gets repeated over and over but I do not think they relate to motorracing. Did the average car buyer 30 years ago really care about the mechanical aspects of a car?? The used-car-salesman is a very old and common stereotype. That stereotype did not develop because average people knew so much about cars, rather the opposite. In my opinion the interest in the mechanical aspect of cars of the average person has not changed that much since then. The only difference between then and now is that now every car is pretty reliable so there is more focus on other functionality.

I am talking about the average person here of course. This does not apply to the minority of people that is interested in performance racing. Yes these people have disappeared from the rally sport somewhat. But is that because there is no more interest in performance cars or because rally sport does not cater to these people?? If you look at car parks on rally stages, you see Imprezas, Lancers, Escorts and other interesting vehicles. And then you watch the actual rallycars and you see identical Ford Fiestas, Opel Adams and Peugeot 208s. No wonder people with mechanical interests are not bothered by the rallysport.

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On the other hand I agree that WRC shall use more it's heritage and try to show more real stories. That's definitely good thing to do because rallying has a very big potential for creating stories. But than You have the RedBull as promoter and it's not difficult to see a clear pattern in anything RedBull does.

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Yes you are correct, stories need to be told. The evolution of rallycars, the different philosophies of the manufacturers, the adaptation of cars to the different surfaces and different rallies, all these things are important stories by which you can fill a lot of pre-rally discussions. But all that is killed by the homologations which dictate one identical car for all 13 events.

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Originally Posted by Jack4688`

...apart from the fact the season opener is in France.

Sardegna's slot in the calendar would be a nice time of year to go to NZ and, realistically, who has been making more noise about running their event as part of the WRC? Some of those 13 events 'ready' to host a round of the WRC are a total surprise.

Croatia, for example, has a long established event (though no longer part of the ERC anymore) and others are part of ERC/APRC but where in the hell did Canada, Chile and Korea come from? I was surprised when I looked at the MERC calendar that there is no Abu Dhabi event but there's so much money spilling out of UAE I'm sure they would be able to put on a rally to WRC Commission/FIA/Red Bull's standards at the first attempt.

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Yeah well MC is MC, hopefullt they are not stupid enough to let it go again.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Lousada

If you look at car parks on rally stages, you see Imprezas, Lancers, Escorts and other interesting vehicles. And then you watch the actual rallycars and you see identical Ford Fiestas, Opel Adams and Peugeot 208s. No wonder people with mechanical interests are not bothered by the rallysport.

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These interesting vehicles were making loss for manufacturers back then. And even today, production of some special editions are quite pointless, as there are not enough buyers. Ok, there are exceptions, but not many. Also, people with mechanical interests and understanding guess wouldn't bother about looks as they know what those cars can deliver. Sheer looks like evo and impreza can better attract common people just on visual basis.

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Originally Posted by Lousada

This is one of these 'truths' that gets repeated over and over but I do not think they relate to motorracing. Did the average car buyer 30 years ago really care about the mechanical aspects of a car?? The used-car-salesman is a very old and common stereotype. That stereotype did not develop because average people knew so much about cars, rather the opposite. In my opinion the interest in the mechanical aspect of cars of the average person has not changed that much since then. The only difference between then and now is that now every car is pretty reliable so there is more focus on other functionality.

I am talking about the average person here of course. This does not apply to the minority of people that is interested in performance racing. Yes these people have disappeared from the rally sport somewhat. But is that because there is no more interest in performance cars or because rally sport does not cater to these people?? If you look at car parks on rally stages, you see Imprezas, Lancers, Escorts and other interesting vehicles. And then you watch the actual rallycars and you see identical Ford Fiestas, Opel Adams and Peugeot 208s. No wonder people with mechanical interests are not bothered by the rallysport.

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What I meant is that saying "there is RX for such people" like Per said is wrong because the pool of those true petrol heads is relatively small (even the number of Imprezas and Evos around the stages is very small compared to the large majority of spectators) and the manufacturers involved in rallying naturally want to attract all kinds of car buyers including facebook/youtube generation or people who have no will to study exact rules (one particular problem of rallying is that it has very complicated rules but on the other hand other sports like baseball has too).

About the particular development in the society. Maybe it's because I come from different country but here the change is very rapid and clearly visible. Thirty years a go plenty of people were able to repair their cars themselves and were used to that. Basically every person living in a village was able to repair at least their moped (even my mother who is economist). That nearly completely disappeared with the development in car industry and with everything being a lot more affordable to buy and replace instead of repairing.

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Originally Posted by Lousada

Yes you are correct, stories need to be told. The evolution of rallycars, the different philosophies of the manufacturers, the adaptation of cars to the different surfaces and different rallies, all these things are important stories by which you can fill a lot of pre-rally discussions. But all that is killed by the homologations which dictate one identical car for all 13 events.

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I do agree. I'm all for more variety in the machinery and more freedom in the rules which could allow different approaches and ideas, something similar to current Le Mans rules. On the other hand the current state of rules was introduced to keep cost down for privateers and the large freedom would certainly close the door for them.

IMO people need to be captured by the excitement of watching thrilling rally cars to get them into the sport.

I know lots of people who like performance cars but have no interest in rallying.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

IMO people need to be captured by the excitement of watching thrilling rally cars to get them into the sport.

I know lots of people who like performance cars but have no interest in rallying.

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People who like performance cars usually are bottom feeders who enjoy the chinless vagabond dogs videos doing burnouts and going sideways around barrels after 176 attemps... we do not need these people in the rallying, we are the master race of motorsport... otherwise we might end up like MotoGP and F1 where every scared kid will have an opinion about the sport.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

IMO people need to be captured by the excitement of watching thrilling rally cars to get them into the sport.

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Yes. And how do you manage that? Simple. By doing proper promotion and making it easy for people to see the sport live.

Sadly, most promoters just want to make money, rather than actually promote; it's too much hard work.

How are the promoters making money with our sport? If there aren't many people watching or we are all complaining the coverage is sh!te... are the promoters lying to advertisers with made up viewer figures and stealing their money?

Trying to make the sport interesting, with WRC+ and so on yet everyone dislikes it?

The difference could be people like me - don't really like it in it's current format, hate the twatbag behind the mic on British coverage yet still I watch and add to the viewing figures.

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Originally Posted by GigiGalliNo1

How are the promoters making money with our sport? If there aren't many people watching or we are all complaining the coverage is sh!te... are the promoters lying to advertisers with made up viewer figures and stealing their money?

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Yes, it's statistics. The biggest lie of them all. Took me some time, but found what they've claimed. In 2014 total of 799 million people watched WRC coverage at least once. So that's roughly 60 million per one round.

Now if we'd take two big annual events. Superbowl with it's ca 120 million record in the States and Eurovision with a bit over 200 million viewers. Both of those events are major events in their territories. As much as I'd wish for WRC to do well, I find it highly questionable that the WRC TV programming manages to get anywhere near 60 million unique viewers per event.

799 million only for TV or including wrc/wrc+ content?

Television

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Originally Posted by Martins Tolks

799 million only for TV or including wrc/wrc+ content?

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Maths not my strong point but I think that's just over 10% of the world's population. Is there a link to this claim?

Are you guys kidding me?
799 million people??

God they must be brave to just think to write it somewhere in public.

number is too high to believe.

Is it 799 million individuals? How much does on person need to watch in order to be counted? If someone watches 30s on the news are they counted?

It could also be some kind of metric similar to "views" on youtube not individual viewers. So if I watch preview, each day review and final review for each round that's 5*13 = 65 "views" from me. If everyone watches like that it's 799/65 = 12.3 million people (roughly). Maybe not everyone watches all 5 programmes, let's say you watch 3 per event: that's about 30 million people that watched 3 things for each event totaling 799 million views.

I don't know how they count but I suspect it's something similar to that, here's an article about F1 where their viewership for all 19 races in 2014 is said to be 450 million but each race gets about 20 to 30 milion: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-1...d-prix/5326138

Also from the same article how for one race, the "cumulative" audience for Italy was counted to be more than the population of the country: << The report defined "cumulative audience" as "the sum of the average audiences of each individual broadcast". Italy, for example, had 71 "broadcasts". Adding average audience figures together, the report concluded the "cumulative audience" in Italy was nearly 65 million - more than its then population of 60 million. These numbers included live and delayed coverage and, in some markets, clips in news and other programs. >>

799 millions watched coverages, that makes 19 millions per highlight for a wrc round (3 daily + 1 event). May be it is possible.