[WRC] News & rumours (part IV) 2016

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

MAny countries will not be able to have "fillers" and we´ll have maybe 25 cars on events outside Europe except for one or two countries (Aus and NZ not counted). Problems enough I think.

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yes very difficult to make big promotion and generate big excitement when there are only 13-15 cars and even harder when you call the event a "World Championship" event..

Maybe in America it might work like in the thing they call Globular rallycross but it does look very odd to see seating in the stands for 30,000 but zero people in those stands...

A long time ago there was a requirement that a country must be able to have minimum 50 cars or no WRC..
I guess that no longer applies..

Something has gone wrong.

I know this is not very much popular but I would rather prefer 25 good cars with good drivers and more variety than going always in the same roads with the same stages run for decades.
Of course iconic events have a unique allure and I'm the first one to love them but we can't run the same 13/14 events for ever.

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Originally Posted by AL14

I know this is not very much popular but I would rather prefer 25 good cars with good drivers and more variety than going always in the same roads with the same stages run for decades.
Of course iconic events have a unique allure and I'm the first one to love them but we can't run the same 13/14 events for ever.

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Oh, yes we can. However you have a point that events can be boring if organizers don´t run enough new stages every year. And there´s still possible to run maybe one new event a year.

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Originally Posted by Eli

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...calendar-slots 13!!! Rotation system, here we go again...

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Autosport text it’s quite close with last week Motorsport Monday article. But it misses one crucial point: the promoter said to MM that their rotation plan it’s based on a 3 years on 3 years off system, in order to ensure that new events would get an easier financial planning.

It’s hard to believe that rotation is the way to develop WRC, as the previous experiences have shown (based in one year leaves), but this eventual 3 year cycle seems the right way to destroy it!

In a 14 events calendar like the one we got, there’s room for some improving rearrangements (with NZ comeback on top of the list), and none of the current events should be forever granted if organizers flaws became evident, but this new rotation scheme seems more a fast way to get money than an honest answer to fix WRC media coverage problem.

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

Autosport text it’s quite close with last week Motorsport Monday article. But it misses one crucial point: the promoter said to MM that their rotation plan it’s based on a 3 years on 3 years off system, in order to ensure that new events would get an easier financial planning.

It’s hard to believe that rotation is the way to develop WRC, as the previous experiences have shown (based in one year leaves), but this eventual 3 year cycle seems the right way to destroy it!

In a 14 events calendar like the one we got, there’s room for some improving rearrangements (with NZ comeback on top of the list), and none of the current events should be forever granted if organizers flaws became evident, but this new rotation scheme seems more a fast way to get money than an honest answer to fix WRC media coverage problem.

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They should start by letting go of John Desbrough..ehm...ehm..

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

http://www.autonews-magazine.com/blognl/?p=28230

Sven Smeets replaces Jost Capito as sporting director for WRC at Volkswagen Motorsport. I'm sure we aren't going to read and hear much rubbish from Smeets as we did from Capito. Always better to see a former driver or codriver in such position than some manager who comes from circuit racing and has no idea about rallying... :)

The sad thing about it is that the manager from circuits managed to crush all the traditional teams like they were just a bunch of amateurs...

But JC is still "motorsport director" and ceo so its just another structure and a new post "sporting director" now.

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Originally Posted by CWJ

But JC is still "motorsport director" and ceo so its just another structure and a new post "sporting director" now.

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Nope, JC is going to McLaren in F1. He just stayed with VW until a suitable replacement could be found, so I guess he'll be handing things over and be on his way in a few months.

They're depressingly predictable, aren't they? They never learn, and once again are chasing the money, just like F1. Except, F1 is far more global - the reason the WRC is Euro-centric is because that is were the most interest is.

The WRC needs 12-13 proper 'events' that sell/ promote the sport; rather than the identikit events we get now. But they won't change it. You reap what you sow.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124619

Reading this i just cant wait when Capito leaves....

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Originally Posted by Barreis

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124619

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if they do go ahead with a 3 car team, perhaps they can bring the old points scroing system back to 10-8-6-5-4...etc..etc.. because it will be much more comfortable to follow.

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Originally Posted by Barreis

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124619

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

Reading this i just cant wait when Capito leaves....

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Why not to simply set that one of those three cars has to be driven by a young driver, let's say under 28 years of age?

Or we can just take the best two result of the three...

By the way, someone tell Jost Capito that he does not need to give an opinion on everything everytime.
Jesus Christ, when the hell does he will go away and never come back?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Why not to simply set that one of those three cars has to be driven by a young driver, let's say under 28 years of age?

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I've been saying this for ages. It seems so blindingly obvious to me. But I would not cap it at age, I'd cap it at WRC experience.

Because at say 28 you'd have a guy like Mikkelsen in the third car for 5+ years. We need to bring more drivers through quicker than that I think. Maybe Andreas is an exception because he came through so young. But for me it's not the age that's the issue (e.g. look at relative late bloomers like Meeke and Paddon). To put it into perspective, Camilli is already 28.

I'd mandate a third driver must have done no more than say 26 WRC car outings at WRC level before the start of the current season. That way you're effectively giving talent two years at the top level and then you either move them up or move on. It would stop people getting complacent and it would mean teams need to keep giving young drivers a chance. 26 is just a number I've picked - they would need to apply a bit more thinking to it. But you get the idea.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

They're depressingly predictable, aren't they? They never learn, and once again are chasing the money, just like F1. Except, F1 is far more global - the reason the WRC is Euro-centric is because that is were the most interest is.

The WRC needs 12-13 proper 'events' that sell/ promote the sport; rather than the identikit events we get now. But they won't change it. You reap what you sow.

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Even before I started driving rally 30 years ago I was dimly aware of it (cause all the magazines we're genral motorsport magazines so while i'm reading about moto-cross events that my freiends were doing in World Championship 250 in where ever the same issue would have rally coverage...and once you read the MX reports 3 or 4 times you'd drift over and read about these odd fellows who'd drive CARS down skinny forest roads......

And the most intriguing thing was the HUGE!!! variety of terrains and climates and FORMATS....The RAC, Swedish, 1000 Lakes. Safari! Monte was one kind of epic adventure (who has has driven all across Europe in Winter?)..

Now everybody says "there's no way you could do that now'..
Yeah. With so much better roads and petrol stations and better tires and better cars and better PR, there's no way we could do what they did in the 1960s and 70s and 80s

Yeah, right..

300 km SS a WORLD championship event?
Fawk me I've done 300 km in a rally myself. (CRC Rocky Mountain 1987) That's nothing.
I've done 300km in deep woods on a enduro bike in one day--bloody long day and at the end did another 16km on a mx "special test"...

300 km SS.. (shakes head)..

Sorry Jan, the reason why You can't do Monte across the whole Europe is that there is completely different level of traffic and You simply can't close the international public roads without creating a complete traffic collapse everywhere around. In those days they drove on opened roads which is complete nonsense for today as somebody would be killed probably already in first few hours of the event.

Also, where is any sporting value (today) of driving for example from Poland to Monte Carlo when You can theoretically do nearly the whole route on rpm limiter?

Another point... How can You realisitically cope with different law, different bunch of bureaucrats, different local authorities and different languages in every single state You would go through?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Sorry Jan, the reason why You can't do Monte across the whole Europe is that there is completely different level of traffic and You simply can't close the international public roads without creating a complete traffic collapse everywhere around. In those days they drove on opened roads which is complete nonsense for today as somebody would be killed probably already in first few hours of the event.

Also, where is any sporting value (today) of driving for example from Poland to Monte Carlo when You can theoretically do nearly the whole route on rpm limiter?

Another point... How can You realisitically cope with different law, different bunch of bureaucrats, different local authorities and different languages in every single state You would go through?

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OK slow down and look at one element at a time..
The Concentration run yes was done on open roads.. and the route was "FREE" except you must pass thru and be stamped at certain Passage Controls....and if the Passage Control is situated in an how shall we say "interesting" location, that means when you start from Warsava or Smolensk you will have to eventually PASS down this or that road--you have to get there.
And depending on how the Passage Controls are situated, the route can be pretty "interesting" to do in the middle of winter..
So technical challenge, no.."Sporting" maybe, but mental adventure for the driver/co-driver and fans following the progress for a week..potentially very good.

Really all excitement takes place in the brain, and the imagination is a big part of excitement---including the anticipation of action (just look at every thread here about good WRC or EM events, lots of anticipatory discussion)

So anticipatory build up could be some spice---the thing which has faded as the events become predictable sprints every single one.

The actual SS of course same as now--closed roads, marshaled, uzw

As for traffic regs---well on concentration run the cars are ---oh. wait..The cars are not road legal in any way now..


ooops..

Whatever the case, the main point is the cookie-cutter format, schedule, execution of events..

The locales, the different countries are now, with the sameness of the aspects of events, mainly just different backdrop....different often very pretty but mainly scenery..

They could do it CGI and Blue Screen

So You want to organize a gigantic route section over the whole Europe with some special stages here and there. What is that good for? Why shall anybody want to drive it with modern rallycar? Those who want to drive something like that can do it anyway as the format of Monte Carlo historic hasn't changed.

And by the way I have driven four times from CZ to Monte Carlo and back and there is absolutely no reason why I shall do that in a rally car. I did one of those trips in a recce car (Somewhat modified Impreza GT) and it was pretty annoying experience. 1300 km over boring motorways in heavy traffic with a noisy, uncomfortable car. What is it good for?

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

OK slow down and look at one element at a time..
The Concentration run yes was done on open roads.. and the route was "FREE" except you must pass thru and be stamped at certain Passage Controls....and if the Passage Control is situated in an how shall we say "interesting" location, that means when you start from Warsava or Smolensk you will have to eventually PASS down this or that road--you have to get there.
And depending on how the Passage Controls are situated, the route can be pretty "interesting" to do in the middle of winter..
So technical challenge, no.."Sporting" maybe, but mental adventure for the driver/co-driver and fans following the progress for a week..potentially very good.

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And that is why old people should not be allowed near PCs

Nobody cares

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Sorry Jan, the reason why You can't do Monte across the whole Europe is that there is completely different level of traffic and You simply can't close the international public roads without creating a complete traffic collapse everywhere around. In those days they drove on opened roads which is complete nonsense for today as somebody would be killed probably already in first few hours of the event.

Also, where is any sporting value (today) of driving for example from Poland to Monte Carlo when You can theoretically do nearly the whole route on rpm limiter?

Another point... How can You realisitically cope with different law, different bunch of bureaucrats, different local authorities and different languages in every single state You would go through?

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The Monte is done every year in the "historic" way, its called the Monte Carlo Rally "Historique", and its a great experience.
The reason that should be done also today is that it would be a unique way to bring motorsport to the people (which rallying has an exeptional potential to do.)

I mentioned the Monte Carlo Historique in my following post.

Anyway I still don't see why any team should want to drive thousands of completely useless kilometers with their rally cars? Who would pay that and why when it has no sporting value?

PS Monte Carlo used to pass through the place where I was born in the distant past. We also used to have a big motorcycle race on the public roads around the town. It was nice in that time but it's history. Nothing else.

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

And that is why old people should not be allowed near PCs

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You know NOT, being old doesn’t mean not having any knowledge how to use computers or the applications.

Although I’m old I’ve been living with PC’s since 1986, so your justification is not correct and that probably also concern Jan.
Jan, if you feel bad…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PM1HF9Fq1c

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Originally Posted by OldF

Although I’m old I’ve been living with PC’s since 1986

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Wow, You are old. One of the pioneers in IBM (perhaps) PC users, cool. Internet (not in its current form of course) is even older I think.

EDIT: BTW that's nearly the same time I wrote my first software program, am I old too:D

Wow this is interesting news...

No it's not

I´m not saying "new" Monte should be a solution, however Jan has a good point. Rallying (the word) is about gathering, right? So MC in it´s old form was very spectacular. I notice that many of you youngsters even not understand what we oldies talking about when hinting that some things were better back in the old days.

Back to MC in the 60´s. Starts all over Europe, like from Stockholm, Oslo whatever more places. Big news in media back then.

Making WRC more interesting isn´t easy these days when there´s only money rules. It´s a competiton against other sports, motorsports, X-games etz. having a WRC rally in Indonesia doesn´t make anyone more happy.
Solutions? I don´t know. Back to basic? Longer rallies? Enduro-thinking? Maybe.

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

Making WRC more interesting isn´t easy these days when there´s only money rules. It´s a competiton against other sports, motorsports, X-games etz. having a WRC rally in Indonesia doesn´t make anyone more happy.
Solutions? I don´t know. Back to basic? Longer rallies? Enduro-thinking? Maybe.

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Doesn't work. Current rallies should cut costs, i.e. repeat the morning stages in the afternoon and make the mandatory 3rd day a joke with few sprint stages. Rally will never will be what it has been, money rules..... The really bad part of this is running order, it doesn't make any difference with 2 long days and last extremely short, the thrill is over......

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Wow, You are old. One of the pioneers in IBM (perhaps) PC users, cool. Internet (not in its current form of course) is even older I think.

EDIT: BTW that's nearly the same time I wrote my first software program, am I old too:D

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As you know, here’s some old farts around here.;)

No, I’m not a pioneer at IBM. In fact, my first touch with computers was in the late 70’s when I was studying. I’m not a guru for programming but I’ve done few programs with language that could be called being near assembly programming. I’ve build a microcomputer with a friend in the past and made one program for that one. This is the book for that.

http://retro.hansotten.nl/uploads/el.../ukjunior1.pdf

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Originally Posted by OldF

As you know, here’s some old farts around here.;)

No, I’m not a pioneer at IBM. In fact, my first touch with computers was in the late 70’s when I was studying. I’m not a guru for programming but I’ve done few programs with language that could be called being near assembly programming. I’ve build a microcomputer with a friend in the past and made one program for that one. This is the book for that.

http://retro.hansotten.nl/uploads/el.../ukjunior1.pdf

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For what kind of computer is this with 6502? Atari 800xl, old Apples, or first Commodores? :D

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

I´m not saying "new" Monte should be a solution, however Jan has a good point. Rallying (the word) is about gathering, right? So MC in it´s old form was very spectacular. I notice that many of you youngsters even not understand what we oldies talking about when hinting that some things were better back in the old days.

Back to MC in the 60´s. Starts all over Europe, like from Stockholm, Oslo whatever more places. Big news in media back then.

Making WRC more interesting isn´t easy these days when there´s only money rules. It´s a competiton against other sports, motorsports, X-games etz. having a WRC rally in Indonesia doesn´t make anyone more happy.
Solutions? I don´t know. Back to basic? Longer rallies? Enduro-thinking? Maybe.

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And the grass was greener in the 60', I know. Times change and not everything what worked 50 years a go can be repeated today. Sorry but the idea to hold Monte in a way it was held in 60' is completely ridiculous. Just try to tell the team managers that they are going to spend two weeks on the event with thousands of non-competitive kilometers all around Europe and watch how they react.

Rally has become heavy lifting category.

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Originally Posted by OldF

As you know, here’s some old farts around here.;)

No, I’m not a pioneer at IBM. In fact, my first touch with computers was in the late 70’s when I was studying. I’m not a guru for programming but I’ve done few programs with language that could be called being near assembly programming. I’ve build a microcomputer with a friend in the past and made one program for that one. This is the book for that.

http://retro.hansotten.nl/uploads/el.../ukjunior1.pdf

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Interesting, I guess it is more or less the same computer one of my co-students assembled from parts back then Pravetz 8D - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oric#Clones and used small TV as display. Your's is called "Junior" ours has been named "Home" (this is the suffix D comes from).

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Originally Posted by Mirek

And the grass was greener in the 60', I know.

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The grass was tastier in the '60, if you know what I mean... ;)

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Originally Posted by Barreis

For what kind of computer is this with 6502? Atari 800xl, old Apples, or first Commodores? :D

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With little help from Wikipedia. Apple, Commodore etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_6502

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

Interesting, I guess it is more or less the same computer one of my co-students assembled from parts back then Pravetz 8D - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oric#Clones and used small TV as display. Your's is called "Junior" ours has been named "Home" (this is the suffix D comes from).

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Let’s continue here so don’t fill the thread with off topics.

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Originally Posted by Mirek

And the grass was greener in the 60', I know. Times change and not everything what worked 50 years a go can be repeated today. Sorry but the idea to hold Monte in a way it was held in 60' is completely ridiculous. Just try to tell the team managers that they are going to spend two weeks on the event with thousands of non-competitive kilometers all around Europe and watch how they react.

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Mirek, for phuques sake the main point is---and should be obvious---that the sport we like has become "cookie cutter"
And moron manager types and "idiot fan boi live-in-Mama's-basement" scream for ever more simplification, standardization, and homogenization of EVERY single facet of the sport..
The cars look identical nearly, the drivers look nearly all the same, the schedules of things are the same, most the "taught by manager" statements from drivers are the same, Just the introductory background long establishing shots are different.

Almost like circuit racing. And clearly intended to be like circuit racing in its structure and organisation , management and execution..

And with the most amount of sarcasm I can must this early before I have tea:

And they wonder why there is such vastly diminished interest?

Well duh.

Do You actually believe that thinking about some utopia helps anything? What was in 60th was in 60th. It won't come back no matter how much You wish it come. There are more than enough reasons why. Maybe it's better to get used to the fact that the sport is not like it used to be.