2022 WRC News & Rumours

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Originally Posted by wyler

m-sport looking for experienced driver add on

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc...tional-driver/

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Breen even pointed this out himself before the start of the season. (That it's maybe not so good idea he is the only experienced driver).

As correctly pointed out this seems aimed at Ford or Redbull to give them more money.

The number of experienced and (at least partially) available drivers is quite limited though: Mikkelsen then maybe Østberg and a distant Paddon (unlikely due to Hyundai links) or Meeke (unlikely due to possible car repair costs). They kicked Suninen, so don't see them calling him.

Anyway, talking about possible solutions, they could offer something like zero salary up front and big bonuses for results/podium. But that still needs them having some money to run the car and someone else to play those bonuses if results come.

Unless Millener is talking about 2023, the only guy that fits his bill is admittedly Mikkelsen. He tested the Fiesta last year, so the contact is there, but who knows? It seems like time is running out for Fourmaux and Greensmith. The car can undoubtedly go, but their results are about the same (or worse...) as last year.

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Originally Posted by macebig

Unless Millener is talking about 2023, the only guy that fits his bill is admittedly Mikkelsen. He tested the Fiesta last year, so the contact is there, but who knows? It seems like time is running out for Fourmaux and Greensmith. The car can undoubtedly go, but their results are about the same (or worse...) as last year.

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Fourmaux and Greensmith will have a car as long as they or their sponsors have money. The reality is Msport has 1 own car in the championship, Breen. All the other Fords are specifically funded by someone.

https://www.parcferme.no/har-is-i-ma...omeback/168898

Mikkelsen "has ice in his stomac" to get in an Rally1 car, he is quite happy with his Skoda-deal, and don't want to rush anything.

Just making clear that it is not an option to pay for a seat?

The journalist writes also that Stellantis, Alpine and Skoda are looking for new regs in Rally1 in 2024?

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Originally Posted by skarderud

https://www.parcferme.no/har-is-i-ma...omeback/168898

Mikkelsen "has ice in his stomac" to get in an Rally1 car, he is quite happy with his Skoda-deal, and don't want to rush anything.

Just making clear that it is not an option to pay for a seat?

The journalist writes also that Stellantis, Alpine and Skoda are looking for new regs in Rally1 in 2024?

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Mikkelsen is quite old by then...

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Originally Posted by cali

Mikkelsen is quite old by then...

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Yeah, 36 or something.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Yeah, thats the only way in probably, but they already pay for Loeb?
And Fourmaux?

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Definitely, so they can make a "team package" for every round.

let's say breen - seb/mikk - four

and then they can have a satellite team with gg + lou + spare entrants

but that's a fantasy manager rally edition i guess! : )

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Originally Posted by skarderud

https://www.parcferme.no/har-is-i-ma...omeback/168898

The journalist writes also that Stellantis, Alpine and Skoda are looking for new regs in Rally1 in 2024?

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Rumor is confirmed by various sources, but only related to -let's say- "more commitment" on electric for the '25 reg

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Originally Posted by cali

Mikkelsen is quite old by then...

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35
Same as Ogier and Sordo in 2018 and Meeke in 2014! (1 year before even getting first WRC win)
Not to mention Gronholm in 2003.

Tanak is 35 this year.

So older, but not too old automatically.

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Originally Posted by wyler

Rumor is confirmed by various sources, but only related to -let's say- "more commitment" on electric for the '25 reg

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So a bigger battery pack for the Hybrid unit or just waiting for it to be fully electric? because if I recall correctly they mentioned that the '25 regs will be 70-80% based on what we have now.

I think Alpine said they could start a WRC program in the next homologation cycle if it was more EV-based, but Andrew Wheatley hinted that Rally1 regulations will not change that much.

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Originally Posted by mknight

35
Same as Ogier and Sordo in 2018 and Meeke in 2014! (1 year before even getting first WRC win)
Not to mention Gronholm in 2003.

Tanak is 35 this year.

So older, but not too old automatically.

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With much less Rally 1 experience than all the old guard.

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I think M-Sport should give Andreas at least a chance. Wherever he has participated, he has basically won all of them. This year, 3 WRC2 wins and 2 retirements from the lead. So can't blame that he is not delivering.

my guess is that there must be a certain reason why no one hires him, i mean everybody knows the drivers and each other so well inside the service park and teams

from what i have heard from his Hyundai days is that he couldnt come up with his own set-up, always copied Thierrys, Loeb etc

On VW days he copied Ogiers set-up, i remember Latvala even admitting it in one interview some time back and didnt even he himself mention it? dont remember anymore

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Originally Posted by flat_right

I think M-Sport should give Andreas at least a chance. Wherever he has participated, he has basically won all of them. This year, 3 WRC2 wins and 2 retirements from the lead. So can't blame that he is not delivering.

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Definitely he deserves a chance and we could see how he's compared to other M-Sport drivers

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

my guess is that there must be a certain reason why no one hires him, i mean everybody knows the drivers and each other so well inside the service park and teams

from what i have heard from his Hyundai days is that he couldnt come up with his own set-up, always copied Thierrys, Loeb etc

On VW days he copied Ogiers set-up, i remember Latvala even admitting it in one interview some time back and didnt even he himself mention it? dont remember anymore

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Certain reason, could be. But this one is not a reason. Couldn´t be. If driver is ok with his mates settings, why not? It´s the speed and to finish that matters...

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

I think Alpine said they could start a WRC program in the next homologation cycle if it was more EV-based, but Andrew Wheatley hinted that Rally1 regulations will not change that much.

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Which begs the question - if the new regs aren't likely to change much, how do they attract more manufacturers?

Here is an unpopular view; the WRC isn't as big/popular or relevant as those inside the sport like to think it is.......Can we be certain Hyundai will stick around?

And what makes it worse is seeing the Porsche, Ferrari & Cadillac Hypercars pounding around test tracks ready for their debuts in the next year or two....

I've heard from several sources that Andreas is not a very pleasant person to deal with. He's very good at playing the media game but in the real world he can be very arrogant. I've also heard of a few cases where he didn't show up for the arranged tests, without an excuse. He doesn't want to pay, which I understand, but at this stage of his career his goal should be the WRC at all costs.

It's true that he wins everything he drives, but against the competition he sits in the car almost every day and still helps with his development. There's no substitute for the time in the car and the setup. And winning in the R5 is different than winning in the WRC.Greater speed and aero completely change the rules of the "game" .

So now he's probably waiting for the new car companies to enter the championship.

So at the end of the day I think he should drive in the WRC, but he's to blame for not driving.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

Which begs the question - if the new regs aren't likely to change much, how do they attract more manufacturers?

Here is an unpopular view; the WRC isn't as big/popular or relevant as those inside the sport like to think it is.......Can we be certain Hyundai will stick around?

And what makes it worse is seeing the Porsche, Ferrari & Cadillac Hypercars pounding around test tracks ready for their debuts in the next year or two....

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Porsche and Ferrari are 'hyperbrands' competing in 'hypercars'. They would never be a target for WRC.
What it does show, however, is that few brands are genuinely attracted to full electric for their motorsport programmes. It is certainly dimiishing.
Hybrid remains the way to go.

I think people can also be a bit too quick too write off the appeal of WRC. I mean, christ, 3 of the top 5 brands in the entire world are competing in it!

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Originally Posted by Gustav Andel

I've heard from several sources that Andreas is not a very pleasant person to deal with. He's very good at playing the media game but in the real world he can be very arrogant. I've also heard of a few cases where he didn't show up for the arranged tests, without an excuse. He doesn't want to pay, which I understand, but at this stage of his career his goal should be the WRC at all costs.

It's true that he wins everything he drives, but against the competition he sits in the car almost every day and still helps with his development. There's no substitute for the time in the car and the setup. And winning in the R5 is different than winning in the WRC.Greater speed and aero completely change the rules of the "game" .

So now he's probably waiting for the new car companies to enter the championship.

So at the end of the day I think he should drive in the WRC, but he's to blame for not driving.

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Well, he was some kind of a playboy in younger years, but he has grown up i presume.
I don't think arrogant is a valid exuse, several drivers seems quite arrogant thru the years, not like in F1, but still. And they still has a seat, so that can't be a reason.

He is probably the biggest talent that shows that WRC is not good enough in terms of teams and interest, the promoter hasn't did a good enough job to attract more teams and sponsors.





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Originally Posted by AnttiL

I think Alpine said they could start a WRC program in the next homologation cycle if it was more EV-based, but Andrew Wheatley hinted that Rally1 regulations will not change that much.

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Speaking of the devil:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/f...map-/10340909/

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Originally Posted by Eli

Speaking of the devil:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/f...map-/10340909/

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Reading Wheatley's comments about the entire pyramid makes me call bollocks on Stellantis, Alpine and Skoda being attracted to Rally1.

Is R-GTe next?

Viable route could be manus own electric motor for rally1 and rally2 from 2025 and extended mileage on ev (maybe also a couple km ss dedicated to it)
it's not full ev, but brands involved in ev could still pr a lot on it. i think this could be good compromise between manus and fans...

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Reading Wheatley's comments about the entire pyramid makes me call bollocks on Stellantis, Alpine and Skoda being attracted to Rally1.

Is R-GTe next?

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more or less they're all already around lower tiers...

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

Porsche and Ferrari are 'hyperbrands' competing in 'hypercars'. They would never be a target for WRC.
What it does show, however, is that few brands are genuinely attracted to full electric for their motorsport programmes. It is certainly dimiishing.
Hybrid remains the way to go.

I think people can also be a bit too quick too write off the appeal of WRC. I mean, christ, 3 of the top 5 brands in the entire world are competing in it!

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Ha ha, you've misunderstood me. I've never thought they would be remotely interested in WRC, it's not their market. I used them examples to show how some series can attract manufacturers with the right regs, ROI, etc

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Originally Posted by EstWRC

my guess is that there must be a certain reason why no one hires him, i mean everybody knows the drivers and each other so well inside the service park and teams

from what i have heard from his Hyundai days is that he couldnt come up with his own set-up, always copied Thierrys, Loeb etc

On VW days he copied Ogiers set-up, i remember Latvala even admitting it in one interview some time back and didnt even he himself mention it? dont remember anymore

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In VW days (as a fresh WRC driver) he tried to mimic Ogier in everything. Latvala did as well (less left foot braking etc, was interviewed om that) and it didn't work for him so he went back. Worked for Mikkelsen since he started winning rallies.

I very much doubt this was the case at Hyundai since he was getting own diffs etc. (commented on when Loeb was forced to drive same diff in Portugal), and it certainly isn't true in Skoda when he is the only top driver ( and got own dif. made both for snow and fast gravel last year).
That he was struggling to set up the Hyundai is certain, Loeb and Tanak were as well for multiple years.

About being hard to work with... I have no idea, but the same has been said about every second driver in WRC at some point.

I don't think there is one specific reason for him not having a drive. Just a sum of circumstances. Note that in 2017 he got the 2 year Hyundai contract which at that time seemed to be the best contract you could get. Struggling there certainly hurt a lot. Now with Loebs and Tanaks experience it looks very different.
On top of that Citroen unexpectedly left and then corona came, note that Latvala and Meeke also lost their drives at that moment.

Another real option came before this year. Again small things, Lappi fits better for fast rallies that Ogier doesn't do (Mikkelsen is better at "Ogiers" rallies), Breen seemed on upwards trajectory and MSport only has one paid driver seat and Hyundai goes all or nothing with Solberg no matter results.

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Originally Posted by Eli

Speaking of the devil:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/f...map-/10340909/

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Reading Wheatley's comments about the entire pyramid makes me call bollocks on Stellantis, Alpine and Skoda being attracted to Rally1.

Is R-GTe next?

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Keeping cars 80% same as Rally1 now means no new manus.

The only chance to get new manus is 100% electric.

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Originally Posted by mknight

Keeping cars 80% same as Rally1 now means no new manus.

The only chance to get new manus is 100% electric.

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Agreed, or stop chasing manufacturers via the marques. Reading Wheatley's quotes, I'm again left wondering why they only want to talk to the manufacturer marques. 'A manufacturer's customer operation can support an entry' - and who might be the shining example of that?

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Originally Posted by mknight

........
Worked for Mikkelsen since he started winning rallies.

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Lol..

Total of massive THREE wins thru all the years.. (2 of them thanks to Ogier's off and Tänak's puncture)

Finnish rally site is reporting that they couldn't speak with Ott and Thierry during the test in Finland although they had agreed some interviews. The order came from somewhere higher up in the team.

https://www.rallit.fi/hyundain-ralli...suut-suomessa/

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

Agreed, or stop chasing manufacturers via the marques. Reading Wheatley's quotes, I'm again left wondering why they only want to talk to the manufacturer marques. 'A manufacturer's customer operation can support an entry' - and who might be the shining example of that?

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Maybe it's time to quit the mandatory manufacturers in the WRC?
Today you can't even build a car and get it homologated without the manufacturers, several has tried to build R5's thru the years but hasen't been able to race it because of no interest from the manu.

In the 90's everyone can take a cosworth or a celica and build it to a gr.A car, i know the modell had to been build in 2500 ex and all that, but todays profesional teams (like prodrive, toksport, printsport) could build a car in rally2-rally5 at a same level as the manu's, and have own sollutions.

It's just a political question, the sport can't relly on manu's, they are not interessted enough and the lower classes has to be open for private teams to survive.

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Lol..

Total of massive THREE wins thru all the years.. (2 of them thanks to Ogier's off and Tänak's puncture)

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Or, was able to put pressure on them so they did mistakes....

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Or, was able to put pressure on them so they did mistakes....

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Dude, that level of nuthugging is just pathetic.

Ogier was leading by 50 seconds when he made a mistake at final stage. Tänak by 18 seconds with 2 last stages to go in Poland.

Unreal.

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Originally Posted by WRCStan

'A manufacturer's customer operation can support an entry' - and who might be the shining example of that?

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That's like the GT3 motorsport programmes; Porsche, Audi, etc all have cars entered by customer teams; Phoenix, WRT, Sainteloc, Falken, Manthey, etc The manufacturers provide support and factory drivers.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Maybe it's time to quit the mandatory manufacturers in the WRC?

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100%

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

That's like the GT3 motorsport programmes; Porsche, Audi, etc all have cars entered by customer teams; Phoenix, WRT, Sainteloc, Falken, Manthey, etc The manufacturers provide support and factory drivers.

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If that's his point he could enable it in Rally1, but I think he means more manufacturers with customer racing departments in house.

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Originally Posted by krissucool

Dude, that level of nuthugging is just pathetic.

Ogier was leading by 50 seconds when he made a mistake at final stage. Tänak by 18 seconds with 2 last stages to go in Poland.

Unreal.

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Pathetic?

Unreal?

Please.

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Originally Posted by skarderud

Maybe it's time to quit the mandatory manufacturers in the WRC?
Today you can't even build a car and get it homologated without the manufacturers, several has tried to build R5's thru the years but hasen't been able to race it because of no interest from the manu.

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Totally agree. Waiting for manufacturers approval means so much red tape, so much debate amongst the marketing team to agree, so much 'is this the right look for our brand' etc etc. The reasons for not entering the WRC or just rally in general gets longer and longer.

Allowing non-manufacturer approved but fully legal/safety approved/correct spec R5s to run in FIA events is the way forward. If a company like Prodrive started making Renault R5s for example, I'm sure there would be great interest from privateers as well as national dealer/importer teams. I'm sure it wouldn't be long before we saw the GB Renault Team or the Norwegian Renault Team etc.

AP4 spec down in this part of world took off about 5 years ago. Within a couple of years there were AP4 cars from Mazda, Hyundai, Holden, Audi, Skoda, Suzuki, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Mini, & Ford. None of these required manufacturer approval, (btw you will see a bunch of these cars at Rally NZ in September). The market here in NZ and Australia is fairly small so the numbers plateaued quickly, but I'm sure in Europe demand for a similar non-manufacturer approved R5 would be strong. Especially if drivers secured backing from their local importers.

From here, if a brand is doing well in national championship events this would surely impress the factory to look more closely at entering a possible semi-factory team in ERC or WRC. Then from R5 cars they may be tempted into going bigger into WRC. Like we saw with Hyundai (2000), Suzuki (2007) and SEAT (1998) for example who played around in the smaller league before joining the big boys in the premier league.

What ever happened to the Mitsubishi Mirage R5 that Ralliart Sweden developed? What a shame this was never approved by Mitsubishi.

I feel the rules need to be relaxed, so at least we start seeing a bit of movement with new marques coming into the fold. It may not be at the very top, but it's a start.

Agreed, I don't see any good reason for which Rally 2 cars require manufacturer approval. I suppose they could request a certain number of cars to be built and sold with a price cap to avoid homologation specials, but other than that it seems the WRC keeps screwing itself over. In my opinion a more open approach will bring more variety, more competition and lift the championship interest. The key is healthy competition. Look at GT3, TCR, BTCC.

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Originally Posted by seb_sh

Agreed, I don't see any good reason for which Rally 2 cars require manufacturer approval. I suppose they could request a certain number of cars to be built and sold with a price cap to avoid homologation specials, but other than that it seems the WRC keeps screwing itself over. In my opinion a more open approach will bring more variety, more competition and lift the championship interest. The key is healthy competition. Look at GT3, TCR, BTCC.

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GT3 requires manufacturer approval for homologation.... I think TCR does too...

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

GT3 requires manufacturer approval for homologation.... I think TCR does too...

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My mistake, i thought anyone could develop a GT3