Well, big surprise to me.
However we saw what the Polo did to Ogier.
At Citroen Ogier became more human. The car jst makes the final difference, the small margin you need to win...
2020 will be even more exciting.
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Well, big surprise to me.
However we saw what the Polo did to Ogier.
At Citroen Ogier became more human. The car jst makes the final difference, the small margin you need to win...
2020 will be even more exciting.
The raw speed part is maybe in question, but I personally think Tanak has the edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
However, Ogier will win the title in 2020 if he's in a Yaris. If he stays at Citroen, he will compete for it (and have a better chance than this year).
why so vocal? because he is jelous that he havent got the ''power'' to ask from manufacturers/teams for that money(and not only) with his current driver line up,as does Tanak/MartinQuote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
because he is so many years with armada of drivers,and somebody else managed to stop the ''Seb'' lailapa.
of course affects his drivers.Tanak go to hyundai=one more year for Latvala=money for him.If Tanak was at Toyota Latvalas seat was at high risk.
So Jouhki even Tanak wouldnt like to ''steal'' yaris r5,wouldnt like to have Tanak at Toyota.
He would prefere Kalle for example...and Latvala=money x 2
if Tanak/Martin managed to gain their requirements from Adamo/Hyundai, seems that was possible from a big budget team to satisfy them.
But we dont know if they took the same requirements from Adamo.
At Tanaks press release,there is a paragraph that maybe this is about
'''“The vision that Andrea has set out is very promising and matches my own ambitions for the future'''
Don't fully agree with above. If Tänak stayed, Latvala was looking unlikely. If Ogier comes, Latvala is looking unlikely. Joukki hope Ogier doesn't go to Toyota, so that chance of Latvala staying increases. That's why he commented "50/50" of Ogier to Toyota.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
he didnt said that he likes to have Ogier at Toyota....,he just said that is 50-50Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
I didn't say he did want Ogiera at Toyota. I feel his only hope of Latvala staying, is Ogier doesn't go to ToyotaQuote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
so why you dont agree with my post?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
for same reason he didnt want Tanak to Toyota
Jouhki can say whatever because there are money for him involved.
Ogier with Makinen= not an easy co operation imho.And of course he will not ask less from Tanak
Jouhki family is said to be one of the richest in Finland, same goes to many of the companies that he has managed to get support for Finnish rally drivers careers nowadays. For Jouhki it is probably not just purely about ROI, but also much about pro Finnish rally drivers vs. foreign.
Because, Latvala is not a replacement for a no1 driver. Weather Tanak went or not, Toyota are now chasing Ogier. May point is.. Situation doesn't chance for Latvala if it were Tanak or Ogier at Toyota.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
with Tanak and Neuville Ogier more patience required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy J
Sébastien Loeb
@SebastienLoeb
We will not only share the podiums now �� Tere Tulemast
@OttTanak and @MartinJarveoja
���� Happy to know you by our side for next year but also to see the ambitions of @HMSGOfficial in @OfficialWRC
��#HMSGOfficial
https://twitter.com/SebastienLoeb/st...665460224?s=20
Ogier now has all the leverage to rob Toyota blind, which sets off the whole negotiation process on the wrong foot, plus he's already tied up in agreements with Citroen. Pierre Budar has seemed pretty confident in dismissing the rumor and confirming he will be with them for the next season. This partnership could only work when some serious alarm bells start going off in the Japanese offices and big cash wads get sent to TGR.
we are not talking about if Latvala is No1 material,but about if he would have a seat for 2020 and Jouhki money.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
and with Tanak at Toyota that was in doubt.
I was stating a fact about Lavala not being No. 1, not arguing. My point it, and remains my point.. situation doesn't change for Latvala if it were Tanak or Ogier at Toyota...thats all.
Also, does Tommi really want 2 Joukki drivers in one stable?
I guess it's more about the drivers, not who's their manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
they are from Finland,they are cheap,sponsored from his own manager,so why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
before some weeks we had a conversation here about Makinen and his future about when Toyota will end the wrc programm.
I said that Tommis future was the r5 yaris project ,that will give him even more money that wrc programm,pending the car is competitive.
Seems that is what Tanak/Martin wanted,thats why it was impossible to find a solution with Makinen.
The rumored travel Tanak to Japan maybe was a meeting for this subject to upper Toyota heads,the answer was a ''no'' and that ended their coperation.
Maybe Jouhki talks about the way they handled Tanak/Martin has to do with this travel to Japan,that they moved to upper Toyota heads without talk with Makinen.
Maybe Jouhki wants 2 of his drivers in Toyota and he actually has the influence to get it done? In my opinion that would very easily put the last years in Toyota in perspective (mistreating the world champion off the team, Latvala's sky high salary despite poor results, hiring Meeke the fastest guy who will drive for free etc). Someone on the Estonian forum said the Japanese are pissed, but deleted it afterwards. I don't know if it's true, but they have a reason to be. I think the Ogier talk is just a distraction. I think TGR will try to sell the Japanese office the dream of Rovanperä becoming the next Tänak overnight. Which will leave us with Latvala, Meeke and Rovanperä.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
That rumor came after the Hyundai deal was signed. In the Evans article it's said the Japanese were supportive of Tänak throughout the negotiation process.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
That seems like a logical move. If Hyundai can't work well on a new car he can leave without any issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
My bet is that he'll win a championship or two with Hyundai, go to M-Sport for 2022 and retire in 2023. M-Sport has always been good with new cars so perhaps he'll win a title with them too.
Is that an advantage to an international brand to have 2 finnsh drivers? Is Latvala cheap?
yes but the negotiation process was about 4-5 months,we dont know at which point they were still supportive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
Take with a bit of salt what i write,i dont have facts,we just try to fix the puzzle from what we know and make sense.
The R5 thing is starting to make sense. WRC is maybe getting more like F1 where B2B relationships are evermore important.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
From what I understand the Japanese have provided the money and left the team with creative control as long as they deliver results. In my opinion recent developments, especially Finnish (Jouhki's) business interests intertwining with questionable decisions, leave them open to accusations of corruption and mismanagement. Latvala's salary is supposedly 4.5 million euros per season. I have no doubt they negotiated a sweet deal for Rovanperä. Of course people (particularly those that live in Nagoya Japan and manage Toyota's finances) will start thinking this may be more than a coincidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
Of course, I speculate a lot too, because a lot of the questions are still unanswered. I remember very specifically that the rumors of Tänak/Märtin going to Japan was around October 10, a time when everything was already sealed. Now to think about past events it might have been decided when Adamo said negotiations with Ott have led him to believe they're "no longer friends" (being business partners instead), which was in the middle of September. Martin Järveoja looked noticeably down since Germany, it may have been bubbling since then.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
i cant find any other request that wasnt able to satisfy.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
These about airplanes about Tanaks family i find laughable.Nobody will change the winning championship team for this reason.
If Ogier will stay in Citroen (I hope so), that we will have fine show. If he goes to Toyota it's bad because he could dominate over Hyundai boys. That's not good for sport. Despite reliability issues others had always more bad luck with reliability than him in the same cars, so I don't think if he would be in yaris that the car would break so much. Or he is simply master of keeping the car as much as intact or without failures. Then Latvala and also Meeke can stay in Toyota too and losing superman at the wheel they could show and maybe have a little more confident and motivation for winning rallies maybe challenge for the title. Still better than M-Sport boys. Sorry, but Evans is not close enough yet to the fastest and Latvala and Meeke are. I think that big factor was for them just Tanak, because of his raw speed straight away and leaving everyone breathless. Latvala was not that bad in 2017 when he was nr. 1 in the team.
Well, when it comes to alternators, ECUs, faulty powersteering (of all the cars the same weekend), i don`t think he has more to do than others. And Evans has podium pace and was about to win rally Corsica, finished/is ahead of Meeke and Latvala in the standings WITHOUT doing 3 events...i`d rate him quite high at the moment, when you consider drivers reliability (including mental) and consistancy, he is right after the top 3.
Interested to see what Hyundai have to talk to Mikkelsen about. On the face of it there doesn’t seem much available, as now they have Neuville/Tanak it’s certain Sordo/Loeb won’t drive in the same events.
I guess Breen would pick up any drives left (Finland/Wales etc) to go with the R5 development stuff...
Rally Finland for example is a rally neither Sordo nor Loeb want to do. Between Sweden, Argentina, Kenya, Mexico and the likes there may be probably a few of those and that's where Breen or Mikkelsen could come in handy.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
We don’t call Ogier, Tanak and Neuville the BIG 3 by accident. They’re clearly on a class of their own but if one of them manages to get a faster car it’ll soon be noticed. That was Neuville case in most 2017 season and Tanak during 2018 and part of 2019, at least until Turkey, where the rear wing was finally revised. Since Turkey the i20 seems leveled with the Yaris on gravel although still a bit behind on tarmac, as the 3.8s gap in Catalunya decisive PS has shown.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
Btw, with today’s official announcement I hope the forum will stop washing Makinen and Tanak dirty laundry; they deserve better than that.
Tbh having thought about this more, I think it's an absolute joke if this is the reason anyway. How is it it even acceptable for someone like Tanak and Martin to try and take a potential multi million R5 project away from Tommi AND Toyota. That's almost like taking R5 development and running away from Malcolm and Msport - it just isn't going to happen and never was...Quote:
Originally Posted by wrc2017
If that is genuinely a reason why Tanak has left (I have to doubt it), then you can't blame Tommi and Toyota for not giving into those demands. And frankly I'd lose a bit of respect for Ott and question his full motives with Martin.
Tommi built this project/partnership on the trust and backing from Toyoda, and so far has delivered more success than even the most optimistic person could've predicted back in 2015/16. The majority (including myself) were fearing the worst.
Losing Tanak is the first big mistake this operation has made, but if it's because of not handing over the running and development of a future R5, then frankly I don't blame them. Those demands are over the top and below the belt at the same time, and not linked to a driver caring only about getting himself the best car/ team/ team manager and salary for the next few years - to keep him at the top of the sport.
Yes, but Loeb is contracted for 6 rallies, and Sordo will surely do a similar amount. That’s only going to leave 2 rallies, perhaps Finland/Wales as previously mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by ggg377
I can’t see Mikkelsen being too chuffed with that....unless Loeb/Sordo do less.
Agree Evans if good, but still has off days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarmop
Meeke started to feel comfortable in car mid season(after 'rim-gate') then came across events he missed last year. Meeke had winning pace on Finland, Germany, Spain, Portugal, GB.. Maybe some others. I think another year would be good for him, but also his last chance saloon.. Ogier, Meeke and Rovenpera is strong, exciting lineup. If Ogier goes to Toyota and Citroen stay.. Evans could be good there. But what chance of having Citröen top driver again in 2021? Neuvile would be a good fit, but he would only be moving if he was getting it tough against Tanak, and would Citroen be any better than Hyundai?
Of course the R5 project isn’t the main reason. And the Japanese were actually okay with handing it over to Märtin.
how do you know it?Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Can anyone summarize this? https://www.autosport.com/wrc/featur...PRpsCiaqnIsPzo
Ok, so the big cat is out of the bag.
what will now happen to the rest of the teams?
Hyundai will field Tänak and Neuville, third car split Sordo and Loeb.
Ford should swap one or two drivers. Both have underperformed.
who should come in? Breen or Mikkelsen I guess is stamdimg first in line
Citroen: I guess they stay with same crew, no third car
if Toyota keep Meeke and Latvala, Rovanpära in car 3
Or will Ogier move here, and Latvala retire?