Jules Bianchi Suffers Severe Head Injury

Here's close up footage of the crash

http://youtu.be/ObadBsi1mlY

It's a miracle he's alive honestly. I so wish he pulls through this. His F1 career is over but we can only hope that he gets a chance at living life at least.

Its terrible to see.

Completely different point, but its good to see the fuel tank stayed intact. That accident 20 years ago or so would have seen fire as an issue too.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, I feel for all those reasons that this can hardly be put into the 'freak accident' category. What happened to poor Henry Surtees was a 'freak accident'. This is not.

With the exception of Brundle's mishap, I can't think of another similar incident in an F1 race. Why has this happened now? Well, it's very hard for any layman to come to a hard conclusion, but I too would suggest that driver behaviour in relation to flag signals has deteriorated. Without wishing to conflate two current issues, maybe the increased reliance on pits-to-car communication is partially to blame? It does seem true that F1 drivers (I don't see the same thing happening in other formulae) are more likely nowadays to miss or ignore flag signals.

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I remember a few times when this has nearly happened.

Brazil 2003 when we had many accidents at the same corner and Germany 2007 spring to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69JUz9BDrXQ - Skip to 1.25, Luizzi nearly hits the safety car and the JCB.

Yer 2003 in Brazil Pizzonia? (maybe) crashed into Montoya's already crashed car and marshalls jumping over the barriers.

2007 in Nurburgring was it Hamilton who spun and then 4 or 5 more cars ran wide in heavy rain and Liuzzi as you say nearly hits the SC

Brundle 1994 is creepy because of how similar it was.

You would think that with all of the technology in F1 it would be quite simple for race control to be able to push a button that sends a signal to each car's engine management system to limit power, taking the option to ignore flags out of the equation

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Here's close up footage of the crash

http://youtu.be/ObadBsi1mlY

It's a miracle he's alive honestly. I so wish he pulls through this. His F1 career is over but we can only hope that he gets a chance at living life at least.

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i can't believe they had that big piece of sh!t on the track. This is horrible.

Terrible, terrible. Whoever said you can't "unsee" that video is absolutely correct. I have read many positive posts relating to Bianchi and his potential and hope that he can get back to his seat soon. Prayers.


Senna ran into the back of a car (Mansell?) in Adelaide years ago. F1 cars have been fair weather vehicles for many years and nothing I can see has been done to address it. Was Senna driving dangerously or over racing because everyone else is doing it? I still remember how late the back of the car appeared before he hit it. Ouch.

Wet racing should be the great equalizer but what I see repeatedly is a "pack up and go home" attitude once the minimum laps are satisfied.

The first item next year should be "spray mitigation" technology and see what the engineers can come up with. Maybe it can be permanent or fitted with the use of intermediate tyres, who knows. They had no issue producing the DRS to counter negative influence on a following vehicle and I see this as an extension of that principle.

I would rather brainy engineers tasked with improving vehicle performance/safety in the wet than how far they can get with a pack of AA's. The unfortunate habit an F1 car has of aquaplaning on a spilt cup of coffee might be something to consider as well.


If start times for races are based on European sleep patterns then we can be assured of many very wet races into the future.

ok just seen it and my god im in shock. I really hope he survives this horrible accident. Wet track and a big tractor on the track. TERRIBLE!!! Should have been be a safety car as soon as that tractor was on the circuit. Unacceptable by the FIA.

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Originally Posted by anfield5

You would think that with all of the technology in F1 it would be quite simple for race control to be able to push a button that sends a signal to each car's engine management system to limit power, taking the option to ignore flags out of the equation

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totally agree and good idea. Avoidable accident. I am in real shock.

I find it difficult to understand with electronic measurement systems available (i.e digital rain gauges etc) and measurement of the track (roughness index etc) it was not possible to calculate whether it is safe to race or not.
Certainly if Massa was saying to stop the race 5 laps earlier - the race controller was certainly not listening to an important source of information -(an experienced driver on the track) and possibly negligent in elevating the level of risk for the drivers' safety by not stopping the race earlier.

With the speed he was carrying there was no way Bianchi was going to walk away from that accident. The tractor undoubtedly made it worse but I don't think the tyres would have been enough to absorb such a huge impact.

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Originally Posted by Zeakiwi

I find it difficult to understand with electronic measurement systems available (i.e digital rain gauges etc) and measurement of the track (roughness index etc) it was not possible to calculate whether it is safe to race or not.
Certainly if Massa was saying to stop the race 5 laps earlier - the race controller was certainly not listening to an important source of information -(an experienced driver on the track) and possibly negligent in elevating the level of risk for the drivers' safety by not stopping the race earlier.

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Massa was screaming, but not concerned enough to pit to remove his worn inters and put on full wets. Both sutil and bianchi were on worn inters afaik. They were all trying to tiptoe to the end without pitting again or hoping that the race would be red flagged when there was a crash. Had they been on full wets I doubt either would have crashed in that manner.

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

With the speed he was carrying there was no way Bianchi was going to walk away from that accident. The tractor undoubtedly made it worse but I don't think the tyres would have been enough to absorb such a huge impact.

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True, he was on his way to a huge accident regardless, unfortunately made exponentially worse by the huge tractor, rather than tyre barriers

If not for the tractor we might be looking at Schumacher 99 or somewhat worse but the big hulk of metal (not absorbing any of the shock) is what has made this life threatening (exponentially worse indeed robinho)

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Originally Posted by anfield5

You would think that with all of the technology in F1 it would be quite simple for race control to be able to push a button that sends a signal to each car's engine management system to limit power, taking the option to ignore flags out of the equation

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That's the sort of thing I'm against - technology that takes elements of the skill of driving, and racing with, an F1 car away from the driver.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I disagree. It's an easily avoidable incident.

Someone mentioned canopies on the race thread, I actually don't see this as something a copy would have helped with. BUT there are two things which people have touched on.

1. Why was he going so quick in a yellow flag zone? If he wasn't so horrendously injured he should be getting a race ban. He needlessly endangered his life and the lives of the trackside workers.
2. Where was the safety car? Where was the full track yellow? By having a zone of yellows you still reward a driver for driving quickly through the yellow flags....

I'm sorry, but this is the typical motorsportforums F1 forum way of dealing with it..... ie it doesn't happen all of the time so it's termed as being a freak incident so do nothing and hope it doesn't happen again. It happened to Brundle before, once is too many times for this sort of thing, twice is just a joke. It's not going to kill the sport to have safety cars more often and be harder on drivers who are driving faster than they should be in these sorts of conditions, it might have already killed a driver to not be harsher though......

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I think we need to take stock - how many times - this season alone - has a truck been on track recovering a stricken car(s)? The drivers are in control of their own destiny, double waved yellows, as stated in the rulebook, tell syou te be prepared to stop. In the wet, it takes longer to stop. The drivers were ALL going too fast at that point.

Had the truck not been reversing.....

Had he been going at a suitable speed given marshalls were on the track.....

We are VERY lucky no marshalls were killed - needlessly.....

And I am glad to see you understand that a canopy would have been as useful as the roll hoop in this accident - none.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

Here's close up footage of the crash

http://youtu.be/ObadBsi1mlY

It's a miracle he's alive honestly. I so wish he pulls through this. His F1 career is over but we can only hope that he gets a chance at living life at least.

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Interestingly, this shows that while the car does go under the truck, it is only just, and only because the truck is reversing. It actually looks like the truck slows the Marussia down a lot, the roll hoop taking all the force - which is considerable enough to deform it - saving the instant retardation the car may have suffered if it went directly into the barrier.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ce=mostpopular
Williams performance chief Rob Smedley says it would be technically straightforward to introduce closed cockpits into Formula 1, should the sport decide to in the wake of Jules Bianchi's accident. Marussia F1 driver Bianchi suffered a serious head injury after crashing into a recovery vehicle in the closing stages of the Japanese Grand Prix.

The sport has repeatedly discussed introducing cockpit surrounds on cars, since Felipe Massa suffered his own serious head injury during qualifying for the 2009 Hungarian GP and Fernando Alonso had a fortunate escape at the start of the 2012 Belgian GP.
Formula 1's governing body the FIA has conducted experiments with cockpit canopies (pictured, below) and Smedley said it would be a simple process for the sport to introduce them.
- Autosport, 6th Oct 2014

What is it going to take eh? If drivers are paid many millions of dollarpounds, doesn't it make sense for teams to protect their assets?

If the accident Jules suffered ripped off the roll hoop, do we honestly think a canopy would have remained intact?

More to the point, can you imagine if, at a more controlled speed the car got wedged under the truck with a canopy, and the driver needed an urgent tracheostomy.....???

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Originally Posted by Rollo

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...ce=mostpopular
Williams performance chief Rob Smedley says it would be technically straightforward to introduce closed cockpits into Formula 1, should the sport decide to in the wake of Jules Bianchi's accident. Marussia F1 driver Bianchi suffered a serious head injury after crashing into a recovery vehicle in the closing stages of the Japanese Grand Prix.

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Let's be honest, a canopy wouldn't have done much to limit the damage, just look at the way that the roll over bar and rear portion of the car got ripped apart. Canopies would help for flying debris but this incident was as a direct result of 3 things. 1. No SC. 2. Tractor on the wrong side of the fence. 3. Bianchi not properly slowing down as the signals were telling him.

As for Massa screaming, well we all know that he can be a bit of a jessie when things get a bit tricky. And if he was on inters then he pretty much has no argument.

If we'd remove the tractor from the scenario, there's still a big chance it could had gone nearly as horribly as it did. Bianchi was pretty much heading towards the gap between the fences.

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Originally Posted by MrJan

Let's be honest, a canopy wouldn't have done much to limit the damage, just look at the way that the roll over bar and rear portion of the car got ripped apart. Canopies would help for flying debris but this incident was as a direct result of 3 things. 1. No SC. 2. Tractor on the wrong side of the fence. 3. Bianchi not properly slowing down as the signals were telling him.

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Even then, they would be little help against heavy items of flying debris.

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Originally Posted by MrJan

As for Massa screaming, well we all know that he can be a bit of a jessie when things get a bit tricky. And if he was on inters then he pretty much has no argument.

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Exactly. He strikes me as the very epitome of the modern driver unable to cope without constant pit-to-car communication. It's understandable that he should be cautious about safety, but in one sense this renders him the last person whose view should be heeded.

Horrible, horrible crash which I think on the whole could have been avoided. But on another hand, elements where in there which are impossible to control.

The weather. It changed very quickly, and the cars were still on Intermediate tyres even at that point. Perhaps, Pirelli need to manufacture an Inter that isn't "quite as good" which means cars need to switch to full Wets sooner, therefore allowing more grip, less aquaplaning - albeit slower lap times. We only see Wets now when they are behind the safety car on sat on the Grid, such is the range of the Inters.

I said when the crash happened, that the simple fact is, under poor weather conditions like that - tractors should only be allowed on track in the event of a safety car. I think in dry conditions, the chance of an incident like happened is practically impossible. But even then, a safety car would make sense and simply neutralize the race but we can all carry on after a couple of laps anyway. This happens in NASCAR and oval racing. In F1, they are seemingly worried about upsetting whoever is leading by wiping out his lead with a Safety Car. We saw it at Germany with Sutil (ironically) having spun on the last corner, just off the racing line. A SC should have been deployed there.

Above all else though, we need to ensure we don't over-react to this crash. There are always things that can be improved. Tractors, and deployment of Safety Car are two things already. What we don't want is to go too far, which I can unfortunately see happening - and see all wet races cancelled or limited, or cars slowed down, or anything else like that.

F1 is dangerous and bad accidents will happen. Take away danger totally and you take away the whole essence of F1.

I hope Jules is ok .

There are a lot of things to consider here .

Firstly , when Sutil aquaplaned off , his car was in the middle of the zone that was waved yellow , and his car came to rest at the end of the zone .
The puddle that put him into the barriers was , it can be argued , as much a danger as the car in bad position .

The yellow zone that was in place started about half-way through that corner , so Bianchi would have been at racing speed to that point , being asked to slow down in a turn .

As the car was being lifted at the end of the zone , Jules could see the green beyond , and I have read that the telemetry shows he was actually on the gas when he lost it in that same puddle Sutil hit .

I would suggest that the zones be changed , so that the entire corner is shown yellow .

From the cockpit , the driver may not have much time to glance over to see what the actual danger is , especially when he is in dying light conditions , in a rain storm .
But , he should always expect the worst , and be capable off stopping .

Again , I hope Jules is ok .
Both he and Adrian were going too fast to negotiate the corner .
Adrian was under greens , so his off is understandable .

But , Jules was under yellows , so we need to fully understand why he was going at such a speed to have him off at the same place .

And , something needs to change .




And , as for the crane , itself , I wondered if , given that Sutil's car was immediately beside the barrier , could it have been deployed from behind it ? Would the vehicle have had enough boom length to get the car off track without entering inside ?

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Originally Posted by Bezza

Horrible, horrible crash which I think on the whole could have been avoided. But on another hand, elements where in there which are impossible to control.

The weather. It changed very quickly, and the cars were still on Intermediate tyres even at that point. Perhaps, Pirelli need to manufacture an Inter that isn't "quite as good" which means cars need to switch to full Wets sooner, therefore allowing more grip, less aquaplaning - albeit slower lap times. We only see Wets now when they are behind the safety car on sat on the Grid, such is the range of the Inters.

I said when the crash happened, that the simple fact is, under poor weather conditions like that - tractors should only be allowed on track in the event of a safety car. I think in dry conditions, the chance of an incident like happened is practically impossible. But even then, a safety car would make sense and simply neutralize the race but we can all carry on after a couple of laps anyway. This happens in NASCAR and oval racing. In F1, they are seemingly worried about upsetting whoever is leading by wiping out his lead with a Safety Car. We saw it at Germany with Sutil (ironically) having spun on the last corner, just off the racing line. A SC should have been deployed there.

Above all else though, we need to ensure we don't over-react to this crash. There are always things that can be improved. Tractors, and deployment of Safety Car are two things already. What we don't want is to go too far, which I can unfortunately see happening - and see all wet races cancelled or limited, or cars slowed down, or anything else like that.

F1 is dangerous and bad accidents will happen. Take away danger totally and you take away the whole essence of F1.

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Agree completely with all of that.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

But , Jules was under yellows , so we need to fully understand why he was going at such a speed to have him off at the same place .

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I fear that may, eventually, prove difficult. Naturally I'd like to be proved wrong.

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Originally Posted by Bezza

Horrible, horrible crash which I think on the whole could have been avoided. But on another hand, elements where in there which are impossible to control.

The weather. It changed very quickly, and the cars were still on Intermediate tyres even at that point. Perhaps, Pirelli need to manufacture an Inter that isn't "quite as good" which means cars need to switch to full Wets sooner, therefore allowing more grip, less aquaplaning - albeit slower lap times. We only see Wets now when they are behind the safety car on sat on the Grid, such is the range of the Inters.

I said when the crash happened, that the simple fact is, under poor weather conditions like that - tractors should only be allowed on track in the event of a safety car. I think in dry conditions, the chance of an incident like happened is practically impossible. But even then, a safety car would make sense and simply neutralize the race but we can all carry on after a couple of laps anyway. This happens in NASCAR and oval racing. In F1, they are seemingly worried about upsetting whoever is leading by wiping out his lead with a Safety Car. We saw it at Germany with Sutil (ironically) having spun on the last corner, just off the racing line. A SC should have been deployed there.

Above all else though, we need to ensure we don't over-react to this crash. There are always things that can be improved. Tractors, and deployment of Safety Car are two things already. What we don't want is to go too far, which I can unfortunately see happening - and see all wet races cancelled or limited, or cars slowed down, or anything else like that.

F1 is dangerous and bad accidents will happen. Take away danger totally and you take away the whole essence of F1.

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Lets just go back to inters, wets and monsoon tyres, covering the whole scale of damp to soaked?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I fear that may, eventually, prove difficult. Naturally I'd like to be proved wrong.

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Lets hope then that this trauma is more akin to Vendlinger in Monaco, than a Surtees or Senna type accident, and Jules has a high chance of survival post swelling?

To refresh my memory of the details I mentioned in my last post , I went back to the Motorsports.com site , and reviewed the layout of the marshalling posts and zones in the corner we saw the accident .

I was struck by the picture of Adrian , standing back , watching a fellow driver being worked on by the medics , unconscious in the cockpit , surrounded by debris from a terrible impact .

We saw the stone faces of those who hadn't been anywhere close to the scene at the time when we watched the podium sequence of events .
And , we all know how we each felt when we first saw the video .

But , Adrian was right there , and I feel for him right now , and hope he's ok , too .

A number of people have commented about Bianchi not slowing for the yellow flags. Let's not forget that slowing down is no guarantee you won't crash, if you hit an unexpected puddle; just ask Marcus Ericsson about that. So the fact that he crashed is not necessarily proof that he failed to heed the yellow flags.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

A number of people have commented about Bianchi not slowing for the yellow flags. Let's not forget that slowing down is no guarantee you won't crash, if you hit an unexpected puddle; just ask Marcus Ericsson about that. So the fact that he crashed is not necessarily proof that he failed to heed the yellow flags.

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That's true - but to see that accident alone tells you just how much inertia was in that car - heck, it upped and moved a 6 tonne truck........

Based on the crash video I have to say it is basically a miracle Jules is still alive... But this head injury he has suffered is certainly no pleasure and a proper suffering. :( Hopefully he'll have an easier time than what Michael Schumacher has endured so far, but to be honest they are all awful things, so I better not try to compare, guess or think about it.

a diffuse axonal injury is never good. Best of wishes to Bianchi.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

A number of people have commented about Bianchi not slowing for the yellow flags. Let's not forget that slowing down is no guarantee you won't crash, if you hit an unexpected puddle; just ask Marcus Ericsson about that. So the fact that he crashed is not necessarily proof that he failed to heed the yellow flags.

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As Wilko said, there's no way that he was going slowly...and certainly not a speed where he could be prepared to stop. All comes back to what I was saying earlier, drivers need to obey the rules or be punished properly when they break them. Take that Le Mans slow zone thing, any driver caught over the limit gets a 5 second stop/go for every km/h over the 60 limit. You put something like that into F1 and I guarantee that it doesn't take long before drivers are playing the game.

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Originally Posted by MrJan

And if he was on inters then he pretty much has no argument.

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Thats the weird bit. Massa saying it should be stopped.

Why not pit for full wets, like 4 or 5 others had?

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Firstly , when Sutil aquaplaned off , his car was in the middle of the zone that was waved yellow , and his car came to rest at the end of the zone .
The puddle that put him into the barriers was , it can be argued , as much a danger as the car in bad position .

The yellow zone that was in place started about half-way through that corner , so Bianchi would have been at racing speed to that point , being asked to slow down in a turn .

As the car was being lifted at the end of the zone , Jules could see the green beyond , and I have read that the telemetry shows he was actually on the gas when he lost it in that same puddle Sutil hit .

I would suggest that the zones be changed , so that the entire corner is shown yellow .

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If that is the case, thats stupid. Surly the answer is to have a fair zone ahead of an incident "Yellow" then a driver has time to see the yellow flags even if he misses one.

I mean the incident was around Dunlop corner? So the yellows IMO should start at least half way back down the Snake section.

That gives plenty of time to see flags and slow down in time.

The problem we have seen over many years though is "how slow is Slowing down a bit"? Unless a set restriction is in place, drivers will always go a bit faster to not loose so much time as someone who lifts off.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

But , Adrian was right there , and I feel for him right now , and hope he's ok , too .

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Absolutely this is important to remember. Adrian Sutil may well need some support. Must be horrible to say anyway first hand, but as a driver it must affect you.

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Originally Posted by AndyL

A number of people have commented about Bianchi not slowing for the yellow flags. Let's not forget that slowing down is no guarantee you won't crash, if you hit an unexpected puddle; just ask Marcus Ericsson about that. So the fact that he crashed is not necessarily proof that he failed to heed the yellow flags.

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Thats true, aquaplaning is possible in an F1 car at 200 MPH or 60 MPH, of course at 60 MPH he would have barely made the crane though.

Get your point.

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

If that is the case, thats stupid. Surly the answer is to have a fair zone ahead of an incident "Yellow" then a driver has time to see the yellow flags even if he misses one.

I mean the incident was around Dunlop corner? So the yellows IMO should start at least half way back down the Snake section.

That gives plenty of time to see flags and slow down in time.

The problem we have seen over many years though is "how slow is Slowing down a bit"? Unless a set restriction is in place, drivers will always go a bit faster to not loose so much time as someone who lifts off.

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They have an overview of the track layout in that section on Motorsport.com .

Three things leap to mind as "stuff they should now do:
1) Some sort of crumple-zone "skirt" around recovery vehicles to at least lessen any impact, prevent cars potentially getting underneath them and - most importantly in this case - prevent crash structures being ripped off. Never going to be safe, but could at least be made safer.
2) A severely-reduced delta time to be driven to while going through a double-waved yellow zone, ala what now happens between the SC going out and cars falling into line behind it, rather than just lifting for a fraction of a second.
3) No driving in the dark on non-floodlit circuits...

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Originally Posted by AndyL

A number of people have commented about Bianchi not slowing for the yellow flags. Let's not forget that slowing down is no guarantee you won't crash, if you hit an unexpected puddle; just ask Marcus Ericsson about that. So the fact that he crashed is not necessarily proof that he failed to heed the yellow flags.

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One half emm vee squared.

Kinetic energy increases with the square of speed. Drive twice as fast, and the crash has four times the kinetic energy. Go from 60 mph to 200 mph, and you have eleven times the kinetic energy.

Slow down and you might still crash, but the likelihood of your brain being smashed around inside your skull in a (near-)fatal way goes down tremendously.