Maybe we should embrace having just one manufacturer. Nothing levels the field more than everyone having the same car.
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Maybe we should embrace having just one manufacturer. Nothing levels the field more than everyone having the same car.
Well if all top dogs would get the same car, I wouldn't mind watching this one season like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Toyota says that they need some challenge too to justify their programme, so if nobody will be there, they will not participate either. The only thing that this would work if some non-manufacturer would build car and all manufacturers would put their badge on it, but let's not get into that, as it's the worst idea.
Why not use the travesti Mazda 2 to second team?
Team 1 with GR Yaris
Team 2 with Mazda 2
Subaru actually are working on few new STi models, one of them will be hatchback. And what would the best way to promote it than WRC.
M-Sport should be saying much more if they're fully onboard with WRC27. But MW saying they haven't even started and are concerned about the costs isnt a good sign.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
On the level playing field, who will join unless they know what they'll be using will be competitive ? As the FIA are behind the new WRC27 Cars they wont want current Rally2 cars beating them...
the plan is to have an erc like series as top level for the very next years, then who knows. the reg for this transition is vaguely on. 27 will be mostly a semi private rally2 championship, then in some years wrc27 will appear when rally2 will have to be renewed. in the meantime, the new reg is open enough to fit any automotive industry change, be it real ev, hydrogen or other, also flexible enough to have some private team (tuners) to keep the thing alive till better times.
It's a complete dog's breakfast at the moment. I dont know how anyone could commit to running a car in WRC beyond 2026 with so much uncertainty and confusion.
Entire car industry is lost with rushed EV investments, that still are too little compare to State subsidized China EV battery manuf rapid expansion. Traditional car manufacturers might be trapped in the corner now. EVs do not work for motorsport, but ICE cars are fading out - what to do? In the moments like this you need clear policy, support, vision of the FIA. But i do not see it and I am in the doubt that MBS is visionary enough to have a brave plan. We are clearly heading to one big fat Reset of the Road Rally sport for coming 2-5 years. But, look from the bright side - if the bunch of privateers would go nuts in 2027 and 2028, that would be a proper spectacle. 😀
Developing a brand new car to compete under the World Rally Championship’s new 2027 technical regulations remains the priority for M-Sport , rather than upgrading its Rally2 car.
https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/...2027/10769883/
Any reliable sources now mention that Skoda, Lancia, MSport,Hyundai will confirm to join 2027 group one??
"“Why would we waste a year trying to up spec our Rally2 car and then do a new car? It is only Toyota there for the first half of the year"Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Ring the rumour bell, what's the context here?
Is he suggesting M-Sport wont have their car ready until mid-2027, as they wont start on it until the new Regs are signed off ?Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Only one currently developing something like Rally1 car is Toyota. Despite regulations are not finalised yet. Other mentioned manufacturers are not developing car according to the new regulations. And they are also not so much interested in Rally2 with bigger aero and restrictor...Quote:
Originally Posted by 1988senna
One can only dream that Subaru will one day be back in the top level of rallying...perfect sized car ready to go.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQYiVkqj7lt/
Can somebody with a YT account drop a comment to Jon, poor chap is confused and spreading fake news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQKdoIA8yPI
a) M-Sport did not rule out building a 2027 car, they ruled it out for the 2027 season and that decision has very little to do with Ford. They are all in on the 2027 car.
b) Top class ≠ manufacturer's championship. Rally2 is already top class for 2027. There's no need to switch to Rally2 for 2027 to get more makes in the top class. Switching to only Rally2 is not going to make manufacturers any more willing, that's a commercial matter not costs nor technical, and it isn't a makes championship. Manufacturer participation is key to a manufacturers championship, the clue is in the name. Unless there are interested participating manufacturers, there will still only be Toyota as *willing* manufacturer and they've said yes please to space frames. Yes, opening up to Rally2 will see options for which other manufacturers the promoter can support to an invite to field a team, and that's why they're doing it, and I know a fan would see that as a boon for Rally2, but in reality it isn't a good idea to expect Toyota to pay for everything whilst you also tell them to piss off.
I think he knows all that but wanted to make a video to air his opinion and titled it to get views and comments.
His main serious point is that the spaceframe cars should be delayed until at least 2028 when everything has been finalised in terms of Regs, Manufacturer/ Tuners commitment, balance of performance being confirmed and the direction from the new Promoter.
Having just Toyota with a WRC27 Car isnt going to be fair or viable for the Championship
He also says that Toyota almost have a prototype WRC27 car READY. That's HUGE. I can't find it anywhere on the web.
Even if FIA would delay new regulations until 2028, Toyota would still have advantage, since they already doing their job. What is concerning if FIA will not move their asses soon, it could end with only Rally2 cars available, and even then it's not guaranteed anybody would be on the start list besides privateers. It could mean that if they would scrap regulations, that even Toyota could give them middle finger and walk away (throwing their hard work and money into toilet). That would mean that championship would DIE instantly. So it's crazy situation that nobody can predict for sure, what will happen.
Toyota are the only force making the championship viable. Fairness is a fan's mental construct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
He's also dead against spaceframes existing at all at any point.
https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/ar...-setzt-toyota/Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
Almost being a key word
Toyota aren't at fault, but being the sole WRC27 maker doesn't work.. The fans view matters if they dont accept a one-sided Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
Jon is entitled to his opinion and many agree with him. Spaceframe chassis hasnt worked in Rally1, attracting no new Manufacturers.
Jon is far more knowledgeable than the majority here.......
Absolutely, I'm only calling him out on the demonstrably false statements and I'm allowed to disagree with anybody's opinions and I enjoy discussing it too. He is knowledgeable and passionate and that's why I watch his channel, but he never considers the commercial side of things, just like a lot of people here - it's just always "look at what great egalitarian sport we have with Rally2" with no Socratic thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Spaceframe has worked in Rally1, if you reconsider that it didn't have a sole purpose to attract manufacturers. We're all still watching but I can't comment on safety, reliability or costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
As yet, Rally2 hasn't demonstrably attracted new manufacturers for 2027 either. Skoda said nothing! And I'll say this for the nth time and put it in bold before I get a reply, and this applies to Lancia: Attracting MANUFACTURERS is a commercial matter primarily, not a technical matter. Opening up to Rally2 permits more MAKES in the top class, not entries into the MANUFACTURERS championship. You've still got to sign those makes up, and this is the only thing that is pausing M-Sport commitment to WRC2027 and they already have a Rally2 car!
The FIA and current promoter say no to Rally2. As the new incoming promoter, can all the Rally2 fans tell me how they are going to put on shows all around the world and pay for it with All Live and which MANUFACTURERS and or MAKES they will have attracted, etc. I don't think they can because they never have considered it. Maybe I should start a thread for this.
You cant ask that as Rally2 hasn't been the top class, so current or new Manufacturers haven't entered as Teams. They just make and homologate their cars and let private teams buy and run them.
And going forward to 2027, Rally2 cars will be able to enter the top class but why would their Manufacturer enter as a Team until they know their car will have an equal chance vs a WRC27 Car ? This goes for existing makers like Skoda as well as any new ones thinking of joining.
And yes, attracting new Manufacturers was the main aim of the new spaceframe Rally1 change.
its a fun discussion but in my mind i'm very excited and only thinking about how many R5s are going to be in the events and how different the podiums and top10 are going to be in each round. thats it lol
It's a perfectly fair question. If you lobby for something you must care for and understand the consequences of what you are lobbying for? Especially for Jon where he is selling merch promoting the cause.
Everybody is panicking because nobody announced a WRC2027 car for 2027, yet nobody with a current Rally2 announced for 2027. Everything about power and drive will be equal, so I think that is about as fair and logical comparison as comparing a Rally2 Yaris with a Rally2 Ypsilon. Where are you expecting significant performance gaps - assuming there's no silent preferential treatment shown towards Toyota?
Rally1 was built to fit the hybrid system and safety cage else it needn't have been done. And WRC+ didn't even attract new manufacturers, neither did S-2000 WRC.
So why do you need a series of events forming a championship? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
I think we need to wait until the commercial deal gets done and what the vision of the series after that is before we all get bent out shape. I think whatever happens 2027 is going to be stop gap year, but it has happened before and I’m sure it will be ok in the end. Even 1997 with the WRC rules, only Subaru were ready, Ford had half a car, Mitsubishi carried on with Group A, Toyota came in half way through the season with the Corolla. So long as the WRC2027 car isn’t allowed to be miles faster than Rally2 cars, then it is what it is. Let’s not forget, Toyota have only been beaten once this season anyway, so if they dominate 2027 it won’t be much change.
hmmmmm interesting point.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
the answer would probably be something like: because of the whole "cultural" + "emotional" + "psychological" """weight"" of a world championship, maybe? the fun in following a long global championship during the whole year with a proper end point while chatting with some cool fellas during the year on the internet haha
....weird answer, i know.
idk, i meant that im going with this idea about 2027... it will be fun because more racers will be around because its easier to find richier racers with R5s out there ready to try their luck in a big world championship event. thats the dream, right?
"I got a podium in the world championship, whoooa"
i guess thinking stuff like this made me relax a little bit about 2027. i was more worried and chatty about whats would happen - which is fine cuz I like to talk about stuff like that -but now im more relaxed (in some way)
i remembered WEC having those 2 crappy years before things getting in place. maybe we are getting WRC into this moment?Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
well, its better than worst moments in recent years like when wtcc died and became this weird souless tcr world series or world rx that just died. its just euroRX from now on with one world cup race or something like that.
Exactly, the WEC only had Toyota ready for Hypercar in the beginning, but look where they are now. The regulations were good, not perfect, but substantially cheaper than LMP1 and the manufactures got onboard and more are coming, Genesis next year, Ford and McLaren in 2027 and remember they have two car types competing against each other Hypercar and LMDh.Quote:
Originally Posted by saco0o
I think ultimately the WRC2027 idea is a good one, let’s see how it develops over the next few years and don’t be too quick to bin it before it has a chance.
The only thing in WRC that got attraction is where events would be held. Apparently countries are fighting for spots. Funny, right?
What if no one is actually buying the WRC promoter's rights?
The WRC is unstable for many years already, but seems that 2027 could be even worse, and FIA is not making it any easier.
Jon did mention one thing, that FIA should beg manufacturers on their knees to promote their brand in WRC, and especially mention Subaru, since they are announcing new STi models. Chinese brands, those who are already here... Also discussing so long and still not finalize things yet is like they are spinning in circles with no real outcome.
What is worrying is not that the WRC could sragnate for year or a two. But to bring some challenge until the series will fix itself (because FIA apparently can't and will never do it), so even Toyota will not consider leaving it.
I don't panic about this, there's two things going on. The current WRC Promoter GmbH deal expires in 2033, so the FIA begun the tender for whoever will run it after. Meanwhile WRC Promoter GmbH was put up for sale, which is the rights until 2032. Any purchaser would also have to tender for the new deal too else their purchase vanishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by deephouse
I'm no expert but $500m for only 7 years of rights seems a bit much to me. It's like when people used to sell pet rocks on eBay, see if there's an idiot out there willing to buy. They likely listed it because they knew the tender process was upcoming, so I'm not sure if it's clear WRC Promoter won't apply again for the next (20) years.
it must be such a hard job to be a rallying chapionship promoter especially because of the competition's format (3 days, mornings and afternoons)
i confess im more of a "gimme a 40 min highlight at the end of the event" type of fan tbh. i tried following the all live thing for a while some good years ago but its just too much for me.
its awesome to have this for the fans that like to watch everything but at the same time i feel it may be 'too expensive' for the size of wrc. i doubt a new promoter would keep up with that. thoughts on that?
there was a time when wrc would post on youtube stuff from the morning/afternoon loops each day, remember that? it was interesting too. then redbull did the 30 min daily highlights, that was my favorite for a while, but eventually i got tired... the full event highlight became my spot.