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But if Toyota wants to they could task TMR to make a Yaris R4. For most people watching it would be a Toyota anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
He would build another R4 building on the farm, or in Estland, that also has good rally traditions.
Toyota wants its name to be seen as successful one. They'd better wait a bit to see if there is any potential in R4. Otherwise it would be just a negative PR for a lot of money spent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
It was told some time ago that first order was made by Spanish tuner RMC, on behalf of Renault Spain; it’s their intention to enter local series with 2 Clio R4.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
TGR has over 80 different Toyotaīs in- and outside their facilities, they have studied all possible combinations. Now it seems that R2 is next one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Have they started a R2 project?
Can anyone imagine Etios R4 sedan..?
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https://www.oreca.com/constructeur/#fia-r4
Looking at the Oreca webpage, i find it only in french. Due to a pre-set browser that automatically translates I can read about their rally project, under racing.
the pdf explaining and trying to sell it, looks fine, but I can only find it in french, and google translate says it is too large to translate...
https://www.oreca.com/wp-content/upl...compressed.pdf
If I am correct in that all are in french, that is special, in it being a FIA project.
My take is that they need to have Rally easy to find on the front page, not under builder, or racing.
All regarding R4 need to be in english
Do not call it a reasonabel price, it is not.
Build a few on speculation, and use Sarrazin and one more driver in WRC and ERC to show the potential. Rent two of them out cheap to whoever want to test it.
If not it could be a stillborn!
The Baratec kits are extremely expensive. I do not see their 1600T setup being any cheaper than the R4 kits from Oreca. Bring back Group N in using Focus RS and Subaru WRX STI's
Sorry, it is not so difficult to find it in english...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
https://www.oreca.com/en/manufacturer/#fia-r4
https://www.oreca.com/wp-content/upl...compressed.pdf
how much the cost? I'm a bit curiousQuote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
Spanish tuner RMC is selling full N5 cars (based on Baratec 1.6T MR’s) below R4 cars announced price. R4 tech concept is interesting and useful for the sport, but the main problem is to have a single supplier worldwide. It’d make more sense to implement an international regulation for the category and allow national tuners to build the cars according to those rules (a bit like AP4).Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
Is it known how many cars are buildt to date?
Oren only sells KITīs, every team does building themselves. I donīt know how many KITīs have been sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
No progress from Dytko's Micra & Evolve's Yaris..?
And Evolve to makes Mini R4..
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Oreca bid for the contract to make money.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
To start off they need to demonstrate it, in several ERC or WRC events, to prove it is worth the money, and has stamina to reach the finish.
If not, they will sell very few I am afraid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
R4 Kit
It is the wrong way for new 4wd cars. To expensive i am afraid.
We need 4wd group N cars back!
Factory cars with some adjustments to make them ready for Rallying. This must be done for normal money.
Agree, but I would take a R3t and let privat tuners make a 4WD system after certain specs.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
Nice but how about to be realistic? This will not happen and it's not a fault of FIA. Gr.N is dead by the development in automotive and society. Get used to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
How is that going to be cheaper than R4 and how is that better when there is only one up-to-date R3T car (Clio ; the DS3 is a model at the end of its lifecycle)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Does Oreca have a plan to running Etios R4 in some events..?
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No news from Oreca since December. Was the R4 kit actually homologated?
In Hungary there will supposedly be a Mitsubishi Mirage R4. Whether that is true or not I am skeptical, as the car looks like a Mirage R5, but here are pictures of the car: https://www.facebook.com/LATYAK.raci...22721714946463
They can use existing exterior parts of the R5 if those don't violate the R4 regs.
Oreca does not seem to be eager to push this to the market.
It might just be a kit, but they need to demonstrate to potential buyers the speed and handeling this will give them, instead of a used R5. The maintenence cost is hard to demonstrate, so we only have to take their word for that.
If they are not prepared to build a few cars and show them off in different rallies, this FIA project will never be more than a paper tiger!
Mirage Proto from Dytko SportQuote:
Originally Posted by TWRC
Jim vd Heuvel has driven a proto Fiesta in the Netherlands last weekend. Finally permission from autosport council to start.
Evo engine with Fiesta body.
https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...9d&oe=5B64C6E7
Became second after Jasper vd Heuvel with a Fiesta R5. Losing about a minute on 55 min total on speed.
Proto has no Future and it is a big mistake to let these cars compete.
First of all to close to R5. So R5 drivers are not happy about it and will maybe pass dutch events.
Second. Evo s are out of production so parts for the Proto wil be in later stadium hard to get.
Third The dutch RDW MOT station will never approve a car which is made from 2 cars into one.
You buy an R5 of you buy the fia R4 kit. If you want a good 4wd car.
I know it s all to expensive but manufactures make no group N cars anymore. I wish it was different.
Doesn’t the Fabia R5 use a Chinese VW engine block? No idea about Dutch MOT rules, but if local protos aren’t permitted to get engines from other brands, what will happen to R4 cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvEvo
Honestly, it’s hard to understand why some people don’t like these privatelly tuned protos based on the Evo, the Impreza or any other brand stock parts.
For amateur drivers they’re a reasonable option to the old Gr.N machines and they also allow new manus to get involved at rally, through their importers or dealers.
ASN’s promoting these protos as a 4wd entry class are doing the job the FIA should have done a long time ago; we’re still waiting for the R4 cars debut, even knowing their prices won’t be cheap.
Btw, Dytko has now become a partner of Spanish tuner ARVidal on the new Swift N5 development: https://rallyes.info/noticias/pawel-...n-del-swift-r/
http://staticv2.revistascratch.com//...-r-n5_full.jpg
I think these R4-kits could be 2wd.
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardo Filipe Matos
The block is normally used by Škoda China (Škoda produces cars also in China). Moreover it's just localized variant of the same Audi-developed engine (EA888) used by all VAG brands (the stock engine itself was far from being reliable and maybe the Chinese variant has some critical issues fixed). That's very different case than using Mitsubishi/Hyundai engine in Ford competitive car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
This one will probably give a heart attack to the orthodox FIA rules defenders José Maria Ponce (several times Canarias rally champion) will use for the second time at the Rally Islas Canarias a JTR Seat 600 Proto; a tinny tubular car with the shape of the iconic Fiat/Seat 600 and a Hayabusa engine.
https://www.motor2000.net/contenidos...59/JMPonce.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgPjTu_5cuM
With such a rich rally record and on such a respectful age, its fantastic to see this great champ embracing a project developed by amateurs, with the same passion and commitment as on his top rally years; hats off for him!
There is seperate thread for those Proto/Dytko/selfbuilt/R-Lite etc. cars
Please use it and letīs keep this one only R4
Makes things way more easier, because many people donīt know diffrence between R4 and those others.
Relax mate, no one will confuse that tinny 600 with an R4...
Anyone knows if any Oreca based R4 cars have been testing or competing yet?
It is very quiet on the website of Oreca on this topic. Looks like they are not that interested in getting this class kicked off, and to prove it has a place for national and regional series.
Anyone here that know if the kit sold to Argentina have been used yet?
Have Evolve put together a Yaris testcar, that is possible to rent?
http://www.evolve-motorsport.com/yarisr4evolve/
No R4 kits running anywhere for the moment.
Evolve didn't build any car.
Not sure if this is the first R4 kit Oreca has sold, but apparently theres a team in Argentina building an Etios R4 to debut at the Codasur series: http://rccompeticionteam.com/2018/05/25/1933/
Btw, Renault Spain has cancelled the order for 2 kits and ended their rally programme (started last year with a N5 Clio provided by RMC).
If Toyota does not have a suiteable engine for R5 (strange), the kit for R4 could open a market for them as an option national series.
But, pricing of such a car will be essensial.
Gazoo are building a bridgehead in the Baltics, maybe a R4 shop could be integrated.
It is a market opportunity up for grabs, if they find a ok price.
No one else seems to care about this car class.
If Tommi tells Oreca "I buy 50 kits, what price can you give me"?
could be a kick start.
If nothing happens in 2019, FIA needs to kill it off, as they did with S2000 and N4, and go back to the R4 drawing board, and put a max price before they invite.
IMO 60-70 000€ is max if they want to get volumes into the rally world.
Basically it's a difficult situation as there are already some similiar spec in some regions like AP4 in asia pacific or Maxi Rally in South America, or N5 in Spain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Also to be considered that FIA R4 is basically a single-spec
Finally, some news from Oreca; the R4 kit is homologated since April 1 and a few units have been already sold to different tuners.
https://www.oreca.com/en/news_oreca/...-now-eligible/
https://www.facebook.com/OrecaStore
Oreca is also announcing a price cut on the kit, costing now 85.000. This reduction makes sense if we realize the kit isnt a full kit (roll cage, dampers, springs, electrical, interior, etc, not included).
https://www.oreca.com/en/news_oreca/...tion-cost-cap/
https://www.oreca.com/wp-content/upl...2/IMG_4568.jpg
R4 Kit parts; photo: Oreca