2025 WRC News & Rumours

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GakWqufX0AAEfzU?format=jpg&name=medium

2025 FIA Junior WRC: Portugal Returns, Central European Rally Debuts

The FIA Junior WRC calendar for 2025, unveiled today (23 October), promises another
thrilling season with the return of Vodafone Rally de Portugal and a debut for Central
European Rally.

Building on the record-breaking entry list of 2024, the 2025 championship is set to continue its momentum by offering rising talents the chance to showcase their skills in identical M-Sport Poland Ford Fiesta Rally3 Evo cars across five high-profile rounds of the FIA World Rally Championship.


The season revs into action in Umeå from 13 – 16 February with Rally Sweden, a high-speed spectacle on snow and ice that serves as the perfect season opener. For many Junior WRC crews, it will be their first experience of rallying with studded tyres on winter surfaces, where average speeds are often among the highest all year.


From 15 - 18 May, crews head to Matosinhos for Vodafone Rally de Portugal – a founding round of the 1973 WRC season and renowned for its passionate fanbase. Last appearing on the Junior WRC calendar in 2022, Portugal’s sun-soaked gravel stages have a reputation for delivering unforgettable drama.


The iconic EKO Acropolis Rally Greece takes centre stage from 26 – 29 June. Already one of the most gruelling rallies in the world, its move to a summer date will only intensify the challenge with scorching temperatures and punishing rocky terrain.


After its popular return this year, Secto Rally Finland once again forms the fourth and penultimate round. Ultra-high speeds and stomach-churning jumps are part and parcel of the gravel-based event, which is based in Jyväskylä from 31 July – 3 August.


The season concludes in style at Central European Rally, making its Junior WRC debut from 16 – 19 October. The event boasts a unique cross-border format with stages traversing Austria, the Czech Republic, and Germany. As a final twist, double classification points will be on offer, adding even more excitement to the championship finale. A life-changing prize will be awarded to the eventual champion, helping them to take the next step in the career with an arrive and drive package to use an M-Sport Ford Fiesta Rally2 on four European WRC2 rounds in 2026.


FIA Junior WRC championship manager Maciej Woda commented: “2025 is shaping up to be another landmark year for the FIA Junior WRC. We’ve designed a calendar that will challenge our crews across a variety of terrains, from icy roads in Sweden to the searing heat of Greece and the changeable Tarmac of Austria, the Czech Republic and Germany.


“I’m particularly excited about returning to Portugal and the introduction of Central European Rally, which adds a fresh dimension to the series. It’s going to be another thrilling season and I can’t wait to see who rises to the top.”

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/saturday-points-set-to-be-dropped-by-wrc-for-2025/

So the strangest season in a while, might be less strange next year?

[rallyfiend]

What exactly does the FIA really do, if WRC Promoter is seemingly calling all the shots on the points system?

[Eli]

What exactly does the FIA really do, if WRC Promoter is seemingly calling all the shots on the points system?

Make sure they call the shots lol

[macebig]

FIA is just too focused on milking the F1 cow and trying to capitalize on the unexpected WEC success to fully care about fixing WRC issues... Sad but true. Disappointing with 2 former rallymen being at the helm...

[TypeR]

Maybe suggest fia to try the new pointsystem already in Japan :D to be sure, it works haha

,,Neuville entered the chat'' :D

[becher]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/saturday-points-set-to-be-dropped-by-wrc-for-2025/

So the strangest season in a while, might be less strange next year?
That is basically what most people around here proposed and asked for.

[deephouse]

What exactly does the FIA really do, if WRC Promoter is seemingly calling all the shots on the points system?

Fine drivers for swearing, making statements, donuts and also no reason.

[Eli]

That is basically what most people around here proposed and asked for.

I'm aware and if they make that change I'll be glad about it, although there will still be the risk of second place outscoring first place (28 vs 25) or third place matching first place (if they manage to be quickest on Sunday).

[CeskyOndra]

We get the value of rally wins back and enjoyable Sunday again.. What do you want more.. So there will be 35 points in offer in total? That's a lot.

[Backa]

We get the value of rally wins back and enjoyable Sunday again.. What do you want more..

Rally winner getting more points than everyone else no matter what happen on sunday.

One sunday classification with 6-5-4-3-2-1 would be best solution together with 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1 for whole rally.

[Morte66]

I'm not clear whether the "5 points for Sunday" part means only 5 for the winner of Sunday, or 5-4-3-2-1 for the top five drivers over Sunday.

If it's just 5 for the fastest time on Sunday, I think that isn't enough and we'll see cruising again.

After watching the replays of last year's rally in Japan, I really don't want that.

[Morte66]

Rally winner getting more points than everyone else no matter what happen on sunday.

One sunday classification with 6-5-4-3-2-1 would be best solution together with 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1 for whole rally.

I agree, but I suspect that commercial agreements mean they have to keep the power stage.

[Morte66]

there will still be the risk of second place outscoring first place (28 vs 25) or third place matching first place (if they manage to be quickest on Sunday).

It seems to me... Something like this would be unavoidable if you had enough points for Sunday to stop people from cruising, which was the object of the exercise. The maths is inevitable.

At least it means an end to "Saturday medals and Sunday medals and no clear winner". And it's an end to having a points system you can't explain to normal people. And it's an end to the 60-second lead at the end of Saturday being reset to zero on Sunday. It's back to having one rally.

Personally, I can't say I really mind second place occasionally getting a couple more points. To do it, they generally have to earn it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

This revised points system sounds good and all that was needed instead of the ridiculous one used this year.

A score for the overall positions and a little extra for Sunday speed. Perfect.

[AndyRAC]

If the winner still doesn't get the most points, it's still a dumb system. They're tying themselves in knots all because of cruising on a Sunday.......It's part of motorsport, and always will be.

[becher]

I'm aware and if they make that change I'll be glad about it, although there will still be the risk of second place outscoring first place (28 vs 25) or third place matching first place (if they manage to be quickest on Sunday).

You had that sort of situation before with the powerstage (15+5=20; 18+0=18 for example) so I don't see a big issue with this.

The biggest issue with the old was not that the winner could be on 22 and third place on 24, but rather that the classification didn't give any points and we were back in a early sixties Monte with ("penalty-") points given for the covered legs.

The sport moved away from such things a long time ago and I'm pretty sure everyone agrees it was for the better.

[becher]

If the winner still doesn't get the most points, it's still a dumb system. They're tying themselves in knots all because of cruising on a Sunday.......It's part of motorsport, and always will be.

Shhh people don't want to hear anything about drivers managing a situation, they only want to claim that everyone was going flat out in the old days. Nobody was managing their tyres or fuel or car or position in the old days in any form of motorsport after all.

[CeskyOndra]

If the winner still doesn't get the most points, it's still a dumb system. They're tying themselves in knots all because of cruising on a Sunday.......It's part of motorsport, and always will be.

Wow thats perfect that it was always a part of motorsport, but you are living in 2024 and everyone needs new exciting things and lot of action.. How can you entertain new fans with full day of cruising.. We have to move on and we have to accept the changes..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The WRC Sunday issue nowadays is with Rally.tv showing it all live, so we want to see cars going flat-out. If only the PS was shown, sometimes drivers going steady on the the other stages to ensure they finish wouldnt be an issue.

In effect it's all our fault ! ;)

[denkimi]

Rally winner getting more points than everyone else no matter what happen on sunday.

One sunday classification with 6-5-4-3-2-1 would be best solution together with 25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1 for whole rally.
If the rally winner takes it safe on sunday he could go home with 25 points. If the number 2 wins everything on sunday he goes home with 28 points.

Winning a single stage, aka the powerstage, should yield no more than 3 points.

[deephouse]

2581

I made leaderboard with this ''new 2025 point system''. With a reference to this year point system, it doesn't change nothing in a ranking of drivers, just like 2023 (old point system). But we could benefit it better without all that confusion. They just need to show sunday standings more often and I mean separately. It's even better and easier to calculate. So clearly at least they will get something right this time. It also shows that no matter how many here cry over Neuville being lucky and all that, in all 3 cases he is up there to win the title and Tanak being second. Those who decide over that rules are hitting the right spot this time, since we got the battle to the last stage of the each event, and thankful to the last event of the sseason. I can say it loud now, that this year's season is one of the best in recent years.

I also want to refer to previous claims, that second and third places will get more, but in that leaderboard it's clear that it's not many cases with that many of you are afraid. It's more common down the leaderboard somewhere 8-10 points. So I think they will get it right this time.

[wyler]

The WRC Sunday issue nowadays is with Rally.tv showing it all live, so we want to see cars going flat-out. If only the PS was shown, sometimes drivers going steady on the the other stages to ensure they finish wouldnt be an issue.

In effect it's all our fault ! ;)

mmm, spectating live on stage after an early wake up, some km walking in a forest and waiting only to see car at slow cruising, I assure u it's pretty irritating not only on tv

[becher]

2581

I made leaderboard with this ''new 2025 point system''. With a reference to this year point system, it doesn't change nothing in a ranking of drivers, just like 2023 (old point system). But we could benefit it better without all that confusion. They just need to show sunday standings more often and I mean separately. It's even better and easier to calculate. So clearly at least they will get something right this time. It also shows that no matter how many here cry over Neuville being lucky and all that, in all 3 cases he is up there to win the title and Tanak being second. Those who decide over that rules are hitting the right spot this time, since we got the battle to the last stage of the each event, and thankful to the last event of the sseason. I can say it loud now, that this year's season is one of the best in recent years.

I also want to refer to previous claims, that second and third places will get more, but in that leaderboard it's clear that it's not many cases with that many of you are afraid. It's more common down the leaderboard somewhere 8-10 points. So I think they will get it right this time.

Thanks a lot! I wondered about this already. You also made the table for this year with the classic old points system right?

[deephouse]

2582

Here it is, I posted this already in CER 2024 thread. But if anyone want to see it again, here it is. With also official 2024 system beside

[Eli]

2581

I made leaderboard with this ''new 2025 point system''. With a reference to this year point system, it doesn't change nothing in a ranking of drivers, just like 2023 (old point system). But we could benefit it better without all that confusion. They just need to show sunday standings more often and I mean separately. It's even better and easier to calculate. So clearly at least they will get something right this time. It also shows that no matter how many here cry over Neuville being lucky and all that, in all 3 cases he is up there to win the title and Tanak being second. Those who decide over that rules are hitting the right spot this time, since we got the battle to the last stage of the each event, and thankful to the last event of the sseason. I can say it loud now, that this year's season is one of the best in recent years.

I also want to refer to previous claims, that second and third places will get more, but in that leaderboard it's clear that it's not many cases with that many of you are afraid. It's more common down the leaderboard somewhere 8-10 points. So I think they will get it right this time.

Seems more reasonable, thank you for taking the time and energy and doing this table, I think I can say from all of us here we appreciate it a lot!
Now all THEY need to do, is ensure we don’t have 7 consecutive gravel rallies in 2026, if only to mix things up a bit, also, either find a different location for the rally in Japan or move it elsewhere please. Oh almost forgot, Wales rally GB needs to be the final round, thank you, should probably put this on a wish-list lol.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

mmm, spectating live on stage after an early wake up, some km walking in a forest and waiting only to see car at slow cruising, I assure u it's pretty irritating not only on tv

As has been said, this has been the case live for decades - if you didnt want to see cars driving just wanting to finish you had to attend stages on the first day or two.

Now with live tv WRC is competing for viewers and needs to show rallying looking super-exciting at all times. But really it's only rally fans that watch early on a Sunday morning, so it's for our benefit.

[CarlC´son]

2581

I made leaderboard with this ''new 2025 point system''. With a reference to this year point system, it doesn't change nothing in a ranking of drivers, just like 2023 (old point system). But we could benefit it better without all that confusion.

Unfortunately, you can't make a direct comparison between the old and new points system, because the drivers of course has adapted their tactics according to what applies this particular season.

[deephouse]

Unfortunately, you can't make a direct comparison between the old and new points system, because the drivers of course has adapted their tactics according to what applies this particular season.

I'm aware of that, probably they would not push if the system would stay as 2023 on sunday. But they remove problem of sunday cruising with that system. I made also 2024 season with 2023 point system, so old system and only one or two places further down were different and some points, but the gap with chasers to Neuville would be bigger, but it's irrevelant, since almost all would rather take some points than take it all on sunday. What we also got this year is also, many offs on sunday. So it really shows that the system they implemented is somehow right. I kind of understand why they don't want to change mid season.. They just want to have time to really see and compare to previous year if the thing really works and have many possible scenarios, and we all got it. Now they can tweak it to better.

I personally like proposals for the 2025. I made that leaderboard just for comparision, because it's easier to see that way, we have 2 years to compare and is clearly seen that the system works but need better understanding (with new system all viewers can easily understand how it works, and can also tell new fans about it). And of course drivers is accepting tactics for particular season, but I don't see any difference between that aspect from this year and the next one, who is coming.

Also those who decide that rules also told, that they calculate different options and they come up with that solution. SOo nothing wrong with that.

[CarlC´son]

I'm aware of that, probably they would not push if the system would stay as 2023 on sunday. But they remove problem of sunday cruising with that system. I made also 2024 season with 2023 point system, so old system and only one or two places further down were different and some points, but the gap with chasers to Neuville would be bigger, but it's irrevelant, since almost all would rather take some points than take it all on sunday. What we also got this year is also, many offs on sunday. So it really shows that the system they implemented is somehow right. I kind of understand why they don't want to change mid season.. They just want to have time to really see and compare to previous year if the thing really works and have many possible scenarios, and we all got it. Now they can tweak it to better.

I personally like proposals for the 2025. I made that leaderboard just for comparision, because it's easier to see that way, we have 2 years to compare and is clearly seen that the system works but need better understanding (with new system all viewers can easily understand how it works, and can also tell new fans about it). And of course drivers is accepting tactics for particular season, but I don't see any difference between that aspect from this year and the next one, who is coming.

Also those who decide that rules also told, that they calculate different options and they come up with that solution. SOo nothing wrong with that.

There definitely are advantages to this year's points system as well, and the new proposal sounds a bit like the best of the old and the existing -however, I also think, as someone here mentioned earlier, that the power stage should only offer the possibility of a maximum of 3 points (3-2-1) so that the winner cannot under any circumstances get less points than the runner-up, AND that the Super Rally rule should be scrapped (which the FIA ​​won't do), to me, it doesn't feel right for the spirit of the sport.

[deephouse]

There definitely are advantages to this year's points system as well, and the new proposal sounds a bit like the best of the old and the existing -however, I also think, as someone here mentioned earlier, that the power stage should only offer the possibility of a maximum of 3 points (3-2-1) so that the winner cannot under any circumstances get less points than the runner-up, AND that the Super Rally rule should be scrapped (which the FIA ​​won't do), to me, it doesn't feel right for the spirit of the sport.


If super rally rule would be scrapped then we could get 3-4 rally1 cars for sundays only or even in saturday. As long as there is lack of those cars on the grid, that rule need to stay.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-ogier-wants-hybrid-to-stay-in-wrc/

A clue that Ogier may be on the grid next year?

[denkimi]

All we need is 18 point for the first 2 days, and 7 point for sunday. That would fix all the cruising without making it difficult.

[Mary Mary]

Unfortunately, you can't make a direct comparison between the old and new points system, because the drivers of course has adapted their tactics

If you understand that, how will this affect tactics for the better spirit of the sport?


the Super Rally rule should be scrapped (which the FIA ​​won't do), to me, it doesn't feel right for the spirit of the sport.

[Managarium]

https://i.postimg.cc/4NhM2jGS/Snimka-zaslona-2024-10-25-145925.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/lancia-reveals-initial-plans-for-new-rally-program/

Yes I know, only Rally4, but one can hope no?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sesks in M-Sport talks...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-sesks-m-sport-talks-are-progressing/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3vSCA9vT79qxrpOkvXABs0-0hl8j8h3_JokcPqBzECO_N_9ApKal6EOfU_aem_mv5Q-5AgQNXSPgG8AXvfAQ

[becher]

https://i.postimg.cc/4NhM2jGS/Snimka-zaslona-2024-10-25-145925.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I don't see him getting into a Toyota in 26 either way. If Evans retires after 25 then I think Pajari is their man if they want a young guy. Maybe if they shift Katsuta back in to a separate team, but I'm not sure Solberg is an immediate upgrade for the manufacturers championship.

[deephouse]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/a-lancia-wrc-comeback-is-in-the-fias-hands/ good article about Lancia

[Tauri_J]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/rally-japan-signs-new-multi-year-wrc-deal/10667358/

Not really a fan of Rally Japan

[saco0o]

chris ingram won the british rally championship title this weekend and one of our fellow members here from the forum mentioned that he said in his finish ramp interview that there will be an announcement soon about a WRC event. i'd assume is for rally2? i like chris, he have potential. tough part is that he is always racing with such low support ($$) to the point he cannot push like hell when competing because he cannot crash his car. not much money to fix it... and still both british and european champion. fingers crossed for this guy!

[EstWRC]

FIA RALLY STAR COMMITTEE SELECTS 2025 LINE-UP

Romet Jürgenson’s WRC2 prize drive for winning Junior WRC crown increased to six events
Taylor Gill and Max Smart handed second Junior WRC seasons after impressing in 2024
Jose ‘Abito’ Caparó leaves the FIA Rally Star process with high expectations of future success

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-rally-star-committee-selects-2025-line

[saco0o]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-teams-stand-on-hybrid-in-the-wrc/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR07fWV4IirJRJ8b9nXPpkVF YkqcMLZHVf0UIFhVp8OjLPxeoOwvcqOwLPw_aem_kzGamLItG3 Czr_8eXa3WcQ

funny. wasnt cyril crying around a few months ago, almost threatening to leave if fia ditched the hybrids?? millener also said a few months ago hybrid should stay, he even said something like "budget is not a problem" (??) now he gives a clear NO when askes if hy must stay. really tiring to read news. im always thinking "ahh I should just watch and leave the internet" haha

[Morte66]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/where-teams-stand-on-hybrid-in-the-wrc/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR07fWV4IirJRJ8b9nXPpkVF YkqcMLZHVf0UIFhVp8OjLPxeoOwvcqOwLPw_aem_kzGamLItG3 Czr_8eXa3WcQ

funny. wasnt cyril crying around a few months ago, almost threatening to leave if fia ditched the hybrids?? millener also said a few months ago hybrid should stay, he even said something like "budget is not a problem" (??) now he gives a clear NO when askes if hy must stay. really tiring to read news. im always thinking "ahh I should just watch and leave the internet" haha

Well, circumstances did change in the last few months.

They are no longer allowed to reset them when they fail, so people with a broken hybrid lose it until the next service. There were three drivers without hybrid for about a day in CER. It fails too easily for a thing with those consequences, IMO.

And with new maintenance requirements (have to send it back to the manufacturer a lot more), the cost went through the roof. It could be a couple of million per year. I think M-Sport might truly be forced to quit WRC1 over this; it's not just "crying wolf". And Hyundai and Toyota probably don't want to be in a championship with two teams, so they'll side with M-Sport.

So I think it's reasonable for people to change their minds.

[Managarium]

https://i.postimg.cc/XN2nZgyg/sol.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://i.postimg.cc/XN2nZgyg/sol.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

Solberg in a Yaris Rally2 in WRC2 is quite possible but maybe not outings in their Rally1 until 2026 or whenever Ogier fully-retires.

Rossel to M-Sport is also quite possible given Mr Wilson's liking of French drivers and the funding he may have from the FFSA.

[CeskyOndra]

https://i.postimg.cc/XN2nZgyg/sol.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

If Toyota gives Solberg rally 1 drive in 2025 or 26, then I could see this move as a good one. If not, it's wrong bmo, because Škoda suits him well and he should sign Ford for Rally1 if possible. We don't know the inside info.

[deephouse]

So we might have 2025 lineup like that:
-> Hyundai
-Neuville
-Tanak
-Fourmaux

-> M-Sport:
-Rossel
-Sesks
-Serderidis/Munster

-> Toyota
-Rovanpera
-Evans
-Katsuta
-Ogier/Pajari/Solberg

[macebig]

Toyota will not have 6 drivers. Someone will be left out. Maybe Ogier calls it a day. He seemed legitimately frustrated at the last few rallies.

[becher]

Solberg to Toyota would surprise me a lot, what would happen to Pajari in that case?

[Steve Boyd]

Well, circumstances did change in the last few months.

They are no longer allowed to reset them when they fail, so people with a broken hybrid lose it until the next service. There were three drivers without hybrid for about a day in CER. It fails too easily for a thing with those consequences, IMO.

And with new maintenance requirements (have to send it back to the manufacturer a lot more), the cost went through the roof. It could be a couple of million per year. I think M-Sport might truly be forced to quit WRC1 over this; it's not just "crying wolf". And Hyundai and Toyota probably don't want to be in a championship with two teams, so they'll side with M-Sport.

So I think it's reasonable for people to change their minds.I suspect that the suppliers are now concerned about spontaneous combustion from the battering the batteries get given their age and life they've had and that's why they won't allow a reset any more.

Given the current unreliability, the WRC may be able to get out of any contract for continued use of the hybrid units on the grounds that they aren't fit for purpose.

[deephouse]

Toyota will not have 6 drivers. Someone will be left out. Maybe Ogier calls it a day. He seemed legitimately frustrated at the last few rallies.

They will probably share 4th car, probably with Katsuta too, maybe sometimes 5th car would be on the grid.

The ideal scenario would be, that the teams would "create" some sort of second teams, as they did in history, but back then I think they could only field two cars if I remember it right, so they bend the rules with satellite teams. That way they could put more cars on the grid, but M-Sport having only two cars because of their budget, that thing will never happen, at least with this cars. And Hyundai actualy never having 4 cars out there, I think they are really not into having more, it's just their mouths that are speaking.

About Ogier retiring, I think he will do it, especialy after this year, when he is so frustrated over Neuville clinching the title, but sometimg keep telling me, he will continue the way he is doing it for years.

[Morte66]

It would not be the end of the world for Toyota if they paid for one of their young contenders to do a season in M-Sport WRC1 to gain experience while Ogier ages out. Just so long as they know they can get him back when they want to.

I imagine there might be "competitiveness" rules against that, though.

[rallyfiend]

Solberg to Toyota would surprise me a lot, what would happen to Pajari in that case?

It seems Solberg will indeed drive a Toyota.

But that's different to driving 'for' Toyota....

[Rallyper]

Exciting news. And they seems quite natural.
I can imagine Evans moving to MSport, giving space for Pajari stepping up. Ogier is either a longterm case, so a future Toyota team will be Kalle/Pajari/Oliver/Katsuta.
Rossel and Evans will be perfect for Malcolm.
Hyundai, well, no comment. Should be good.

[CeskyOndra]

Exciting news. And they seems quite natural.
I can imagine Evans moving to MSport, giving space for Pajari stepping up. Ogier is either a longterm case, so a future Toyota team will be Kalle/Pajari/Oliver/Katsuta.
Rossel and Evans will be perfect for Malcolm.
Hyundai, well, no comment. Should be good.

Elfyn to Ford is every year from 2022 the same theme and it never happened and IMO never will happen.

[deephouse]

Elfyn to Ford is every year from 2022 the same theme and it never happened and IMO never will happen.

Especialy because they don't have budget. Elfyn as one of the leading drivers who expect some funds, he will not drive for free and M-Sport really struggling with that, and now another nail in the coffin with all those extra hybrid rebuilding costs... More likely he would move to Hyundai if Neuville or Tanak would go elsewhere (or retire).

[rallyfiend]

Elfyn for sure has a contract at TGR. He's not going anywhere.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Especialy because they don't have budget. Elfyn as one of the leading drivers who expect some funds, he will not drive for free and M-Sport really struggling with that, and now another nail in the coffin with all those extra hybrid rebuilding costs... More likely he would move to Hyundai if Neuville or Tanak would go elsewhere (or retire).

M-Sport may get some money from Hyundai for signing Fourmaux. Their model of developing young drivers is supposed to get something back when they move on. If so, maybe it could pay for Evans for a year.

Also Evans has been at Toyota for 5 years now and will have already earned good money.

[skarderud]

Some social media account claims Lappi will be in Hyundai next year, that sound weird if Fourmaux change to Hyundai.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[deephouse]

Silly season getting more and more sillier

[becher]

Some social media account claims Lappi will be in Hyundai next year, that sound weird if Fourmaux change to Hyundai.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Well Fourmaux at Hyundai is not confirmed. It is still but a rumor.

[Morte66]

Elfyn for sure has a contract at TGR. He's not going anywhere.

Speaking as an Evans fan who was a Meeke fan back when Meeke had a contract with Citroen and they fired him anyway, by text, in the back of an ambulance, on his way to hospital... Contracts are more of a "strong indicator" than an inevitability.

Though Toyota is a classier act than Ciitroen (e.g. Rovanpera getting Japan off).

However, I also think the "Evans to M-Sport" thing we keep hearing is a bit silly.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Evans back to M-Sport is as poosible as any of the other rumours.

He best chance of a WDC (at Toyota) seems to have gone with Kalle is coming back for the next few seasons. Plus Toyota look to have lost the Manufacturers this season with him as the No1 driver.

They also still have Ogier who is often faster, Katsuta who wont be leaving and Pajari in the fold.

If it can be done financially Elfyn could well come home.

[saco0o]

it looks like Latvala wants to compete in the historic rallies and travel less with wrc next year. part time team boss?
https://rallyjournal.com/jari-matti-latvala-considering-an-unprecedented-decision-something-never-seen-before-in-the-wrc/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR040mneeW08iQ92NLxnhZvF b6gR9utr_4_Ys3JmM8wybMbt5_WCXp28rYk_aem_QtxiNmICc7 LTThZ9hgnW0Q

[deephouse]

Well, all drivers were quite on low this season at Toyota. Rovanpera and Ogier - either they won or crash. Katsuta was fast but always crashed. Pajari wasn't nominated. So Evans was still the most consistent driver this year.

I think that Latvala is still quite young for taking that job. He could take something not so major to miss some events and being more at the wheel, because clearly he is still fast.

[rallyfiend]

it looks like Latvala wants to compete in the historic rallies and travel less with wrc next year. part time team boss?
https://rallyjournal.com/jari-matti-latvala-considering-an-unprecedented-decision-something-never-seen-before-in-the-wrc/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR040mneeW08iQ92NLxnhZvF b6gR9utr_4_Ys3JmM8wybMbt5_WCXp28rYk_aem_QtxiNmICc7 LTThZ9hgnW0Q

This sounds like the beginning of a elegant departure from the job rather than a more brutal sacking......

[Danny0405]

+ Who would replaced him?
Unlikely to see Makinen coming back

Fowler has a bit of media visibility but complicated to see him taking this job all the more with facing Hyundai’s new car.

A japanese doesn’t sound a good plan

Maybe Lindstrom who is there for a while.

Hirvonen and Hanninen are also there but more in coaching, reccing and testing roles.

[Eli]

Has anyone heard anything regarding the WRC promoter changing hands? It’s been 2 months now since they said it’s up for sale, was wondering if there’s anything new surrounding the matter.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well, all drivers were quite on low this season at Toyota. Rovanpera and Ogier - either they won or crash. Katsuta was fast but always crashed. Pajari wasn't nominated. So Evans was still the most consistent driver this year.



My maths show the following average points per rally this season:

Ogier 18.4
Kalle 16.2
Evans 15.4

Plus...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GboNmM3WAAAj6aZ?format=jpg&name=small

[doubled1978]

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-set-to-drop-hybrid-power-in-2025/10670868/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latvala confirmed as part-time team boss in 2025...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latvala-to-be-toyota-team-principal-part-time-in-2025/

[TypeR]

Polite way of saying that Toyota fired him :D
Just like Makinen was shown door and was supposed to continue in some other job in Toyota.. but basically disappeared since then :D

I think that TGR didn't like this year's..:
-Finlands PS finish mega happy interview (just after Evans&Rovanpera DNF)
- moaning about that manu's title is totally gone (although they managed to get the gap basically half from being 35p? down)
- praising Cyril about
“He has shown the way”
“Cyril has been a leader who takes the responsibilities. Of course it is important that the team has a leader they can trust and they know which way to go.”

[macebig]

Yeah, feels like a scheduled termination. Someone else will take over for 2025 with JML in an "advisory role", before leave the team manager position in 2026. They probably didn't want to drop another team manager abruptly after firing Rob Leupen of the WEC team, just before the final race this past weekend.

[flat_right]

Latvala confirmed as part-time team boss in 2025...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latvala-to-be-toyota-team-principal-part-time-in-2025/

Damn those Japanese are so polite :D Will do anything not to offend. Wtf is even a part time boss?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

You guys are so cynical ! ;)

The head guy Toyoda-San is a massive Latvala fan so I dont think he would fire him when its not his fault (mistakes by Ogier and Kalle) this season.

Latvala is also right that the up to Year 2000 Cars now eligible for the EHRC is a great change and he has the 4WD Celica perfect for this.

[rallyfiend]

He's definitely being moved on.

Rumours of another old Finnish driver for the 'Team Principal' role, which we of course know is just the front person to the media and not involved in the management of the team....

[stonde]

He's definitely being moved on.

Rumours of another old Finnish driver for the 'Team Principal' role, which we of course know is just the front person to the media and not involved in the management of the team....

https://rallyjournal.com/juha-kankkunen-set-for-top-role-with-toyotas-wrc-team/
Kankkunen in talks with Toyota to cover JML next year.

[saco0o]

im just happy he's driving again

[PLuto]

You guys are so cynical ! ;)

The head guy Toyoda-San is a massive Latvala fan so I dont think he would fire him when its not his fault (mistakes by Ogier and Kalle) this season.

Latvala is also right that the up to Year 2000 Cars now eligible for the EHRC is a great change and he has the 4WD Celica perfect for this.

But there is one imporant note. Cars up to 2000 are eligible for the EHRC, but cannot score points...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Earlier this year he said:

"Obviously, the focus is always to Toyota Gazoo Racing and our WRC team,” said Latvala, “but you remember when Akio [Toyoda, Toyota Motor Corporation chairman] first talked to me about doing this job of team principal – I told him that I wanted to keep driving. We agreed on this. I have done some events, but I’ve always wanted to do more.”

[106 sport]

Rumours in Gran Canaria about two possible private entry in Rally Islas Canarias next year:

Luís Monzón and Cohete Suárez, both with Rally 1

[saco0o]

hybrids out for good.... or in two weeks they are going to decide keep it again?

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-set-to-drop-hybrid-power-in-2025/10670868/

[TypeR]

hybrids out for good.... or in two weeks they are going to decide keep it again?

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-set-to-drop-hybrid-power-in-2025/10670868/
Before official decision there will be:
- hybrid will still be used
- Hyundai will leave if they don't like smth
- hybrid will be cancelled
- hyundai's future in wrc looks promising
- no next spec car detail until end of 2025
- there is no issues with current manus, we decided to keep the spec same till 2030
- points system will be changed, but nobody knows how, but it will be changed

At the end.. 2025 Monte starts.. and the only change is that wrc teams can have vegan-only meals during rallies and allLive will have mandarin and swahili subtitles.

[deephouse]

Before official decision there will be:
- hybrid will still be used
- Hyundai will leave if they don't like smth
- hybrid will be cancelled
- hyundai's future in wrc looks promising
- no next spec car detail until end of 2025
- there is no issues with current manus, we decided to keep the spec same till 2030
- points system will be changed, but nobody knows how, but it will be changed

At the end.. 2025 Monte starts.. and the only change is that wrc teams can have vegan-only meals during rallies and allLive will have mandarin and swahili subtitles.

you forgot that AllLive will probably be worse and will lag even more.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But there is one imporant note. Cars up to 2000 are eligible for the EHRC, but cannot score points...

WRC.com are wrong then ?

"Toyota team principal Jari-Matti Latvala is looking forward to being behind the wheel himself more next season, with the potential for a title tilt at the European Historic Championship crown."

[focus206]

WRC.com are wrong then ?

"Toyota team principal Jari-Matti Latvala is looking forward to being behind the wheel himself more next season, with the potential for a title tilt at the European Historic Championship crown."

It probably depends on which car he chooses. Looking at the other cars in the EHC, the Celica GT-Four ST165 must be eligible, it's from the late 80's. Not sure if the GT-Four ST185 or anything more modern is eligible.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It probably depends on which car he chooses. Looking at the other cars in the EHC, the Celica GT-Four ST165 must be eligible, it's from the late 80's. Not sure if the GT-Four ST185 or anything more modern is eligible.

Latvala will tackle next year’s European series at the wheel of a Toyota Celica Turbo 4WD, a car permitted to run in FIA-sanctioned events following a decision from last month’s World Motor Sport Council.

Talking about that decision, Latvala said: “It’s good news. I mean getting cars now in the historic rally up to year 2000, we have some great cars in the ’90s, the Group A cars and the first World Rally Cars. They’ve been kept now a little bit on the side and I think there is a lot of fans who really wants to see these cars on the action.

“I’m one of those and I’m really happy that I’ve been building now a Celica ST185 so then I can compete in the European Championship with that car.”

[focus206]

Latvala will tackle next year’s European series at the wheel of a Toyota Celica Turbo 4WD, a car permitted to run in FIA-sanctioned events following a decision from last month’s World Motor Sport Council.

Talking about that decision, Latvala said: “It’s good news. I mean getting cars now in the historic rally up to year 2000, we have some great cars in the ’90s, the Group A cars and the first World Rally Cars. They’ve been kept now a little bit on the side and I think there is a lot of fans who really wants to see these cars on the action.

“I’m one of those and I’m really happy that I’ve been building now a Celica ST185 so then I can compete in the European Championship with that car.”

Probably the GT-Four ST185 (or Turbo 4WD in some countries) just became eligible... I see some Sierra Cosworth 4x4 in the results, from 1990. The ST185 should be from 1992, so it could be.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/junior-wrc-frontrunner-planning-two-rally1-drives-in-2025/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Aero implications of Rally1 dehybridisation by WRCWings:

"In summary, drivers will have to get used to slower cars with less aero contribution, which means that the non-hybrid cars will become less effective and less spectacular, at least on some terrains.'

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2024/11/12/aero-implications-of-rally1-dehybridisation/

[PLuto]

Aero implications of Rally1 dehybridisation by WRCWings:

"In summary, drivers will have to get used to slower cars with less aero contribution, which means that the non-hybrid cars will become less effective and less spectacular, at least on some terrains.'

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2024/11/12/aero-implications-of-rally1-dehybridisation/

Thats the question if less power and less aero means less spectacular...

[rallyfiend]

Will they be less power?

They could easily change the restrictor to compensate for the loss of the hybrid...

[becher]

Will they be less power?

They could easily change the restrictor to compensate for the loss of the hybrid...
I don't see them doing that.

[becher]

https://www.speedweek.com/wrc/news/229740/WRC-Hybrid-Aus-ab-2025-beschlossen.html

According to this (in German), Hybrid is out for 2025.

[becher]

Aero implications of Rally1 dehybridisation by WRCWings:

"In summary, drivers will have to get used to slower cars with less aero contribution, which means that the non-hybrid cars will become less effective and less spectacular, at least on some terrains.'

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2024/11/12/aero-implications-of-rally1-dehybridisation/

I find wrcwings entertaining, but there are a few things wrong here.

First of the aero parts on Rally cars are designed to work in a certain range of speed, compared to racing cars the speed range is very low. I'd bet that the slower (or only slightly slower if that, depending if the cars don't require ballast) acceleration out of slow corners won't make a huge difference on how the aero performs. Generally we've seen that drivers don't loose a huge amount of time on most stages when they loose the MGU (see Fourmaux comments at CER about setup vs loss of extra power).

The higher aerodynamic efficiency should of course be true.

The effect of the rear fans is massively overestimated I think. Those fans very likely don't run at a high enough rpm to do a whole lot and they are just normal cooling fans right? To have big effect, they'd have to have a different geometry and run much faster. I think the current fans are more like the one on the McLaren F1 roadcar, whick basically elongated the diffuser artificially. The fact that teams are willing to ditch one fan is proof that they are not a really a big contributer on the aero load. Toyota would have otherwise ended up with a uneven load distribution which you really wouldn't want unless you are on an oval.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Thats the question if less power and less aero means less spectacular...

Yes I thought that. The Rally1 cars have actually been called a bit boring, with all the aero nailing them to the road. Some actually think Rally2 cars are more fun and at the limit more.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I find wrcwings entertaining, but there are a few things wrong here.

First of the aero parts on Rally cars are designed to work in a certain range of speed, compared to racing cars the speed range is very low. I'd bet that the slower (or only slightly slower if that, depending if the cars don't require ballast) acceleration out of slow corners won't make a huge difference on how the aero performs. Generally we've seen that drivers don't loose a huge amount of time on most stages when they loose the MGU (see Fourmaux comments at CER about setup vs loss of extra power).

The higher aerodynamic efficiency should of course be true.



This guy knows his stuff and been studying aero for years, so I'd be careful of being critical. Interesting comments though.

Of course the slower acceleration wont affect the aero effect so much as it's at lower speeds. Its mainly on the high speed sections where the aero really works and lack of hybrid cooling vents will be affecting it much more.

I guess this is why some drivers have complained with the lack of time to properly test the cars' before Monte 2025. As well as performance changing there is also the safety aspect of trusting it at high-speed.

[rallyfiend]

These drivers will complain of course.

But they have no safety concerns driving with half a wing, missing a bumper or half the panels off the car…

[deephouse]

If all cars are Hybrid they are spectacular and those without are sadly in the shadow. If all the cars will be without the unit, they will be spectacular, again over Rally2. If that last category would be the top, I'm pretty sure most of front guys would make them spectacular, because there would not be nothing to compare to, except Rally3 and so on. That's why Rally1- and Rally2+ would never work and that's why multi-power unit thing probaby won't work too (I had exact opposite opinion a while ago). At the end no matter what we end up, I just hope it's worth it for us to watch, to bring new teams, drivers, sponsors, events and spectacle.

[TypeR]

Show me a (regular or even harscore) fan, who (without knowing) can clearly see and say that this car drove by without hybrid..

Look videos of Sesks from Poland, can't say his driving looked crap and not enjoyable..

[becher]

This guy knows his stuff and been studying aero for years, so I'd be careful of being critical. Interesting comments though.

Of course the slower acceleration wont affect the aero effect so much as it's at lower speeds. Its mainly on the high speed sections where the aero really works and lack of hybrid cooling vents will be affecting it much more.

I guess this is why some drivers have complained with the lack of time to properly test the cars' before Monte 2025. As well as performance changing there is also the safety aspect of trusting it at high-speed.
I'm certainly not claiming that their analysis and description how parts work or influence airflow is wrong. I just think there is at times a overestimation of how much load is produced or how much influence certain aspects have on the general load.

But this is a general misconception in regards of aero, people talk about down force on roadcars, yet 99% of roadcars produce lift. A small spoiler does not automatically produce down force, it just reduces lift for example.

[EstWRC]

Show me a (regular or even harscore) fan, who (without knowing) can clearly see and say that this car drove by without hybrid..

Look videos of Sesks from Poland, can't say his driving looked crap and not enjoyable..

Amen

[Steve Boyd]

This guy knows his stuff and been studying aero for yearsThat may well be the case, but he's very good at spinning out the obvious without giving any real conclusions.
That article basically says:
Without hybrid the cars will be slower & if they go slower the aero will give less downforce - he doesn't quantify, because he doesn't know how much.
It then goes on:
Without the hybrid there won't be any need for the cooling ducts so the aero will be beter. Again no attempt to quantify & no attempt to say whether the improvement in aero due to removing the hybrid cooling will be more or less than any loss due to lack of speed.
You might just as well say that the cars will be slower with full fuel tanks. It's all too superficial to learn anything.

[paddocknews]

Show me a (regular or even harscore) fan, who (without knowing) can clearly see and say that this car drove by without hybrid..

Look videos of Sesks from Poland, can't say his driving looked crap and not enjoyable..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icOagwiwpC8

[dodge33cymru]

If all cars are Hybrid they are spectacular and those without are sadly in the shadow. If all the cars will be without the unit, they will be spectacular, again over Rally2. If that last category would be the top, I'm pretty sure most of front guys would make them spectacular, because there would not be nothing to compare to, except Rally3 and so on. That's why Rally1- and Rally2+ would never work and that's why multi-power unit thing probaby won't work too (I had exact opposite opinion a while ago). At the end no matter what we end up, I just hope it's worth it for us to watch, to bring new teams, drivers, sponsors, events and spectacle.


Completely agree and why I've wanted to see Rally2 as top class for a while - I do get the 'it might make costs spiral' argument (which I'm not convinced on, but it's plausible), but not so much the cars being unspectacular, because the drivers make the cars spectacular.

When you watch the top guys really pushing Rally2's they are plenty spectacular, especially when they have a bit less - go watch Neuville's various runs in R5s and Rally2s in Ypres; car moves around more, has less rear grip.

That hope is gone, but for me it's the drivers that make the cars spectacular at the top 4wd level, with how far they're willing and able to push them beyond their limit.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

That may well be the case, but he's very good at spinning out the obvious without giving any real conclusions.
That article basically says:
Without hybrid the cars will be slower & if they go slower the aero will give less downforce - he doesn't quantify, because he doesn't know how much.
It then goes on:
Without the hybrid there won't be any need for the cooling ducts so the aero will be beter. Again no attempt to quantify & no attempt to say whether the improvement in aero due to removing the hybrid cooling will be more or less than any loss due to lack of speed.


He does make some conclusions though, even if the amounts aren't yet quantifiable.

And when teams make regular changes to such small things as door mirror design, you have to admit that these new changes will be seen as having a significant effect on the cars' (in perfect condition).

[deephouse]

''We have officially signed a contract with the WRC Promoter for organizing the European Rally Championship (ERC) in 2025 and the World Rally Championship (WRC) in 2026 and 2027. The ERC Croatia Rally will take place in October 2025, while the WRC event will continue to be hosted in April as in previous years.'' official Croatia Rally FB account.

[TypeR]

https://www.upload.ee/image/17389076/Screenshot_20241114_181854_Facebook.jpg

[AndersX]

This start to become massive BS - i like Fourmaux, but after one plus minus decent season to play this all out like he would be some kind of superstart, might turn into some PR disaster. He has not won a rally yet. What if he switches to Hyundai, but would not be able to drive it ( number of those who failed is bigger than those who mastered it). All this smoke 2 months till new seasons is bad PR to all, including M-Sport.

[deephouse]

This start to become massive BS - i like Fourmaux, but after one plus minus decent season to play this all out like he would be some kind of superstart, might turn into some PR disaster. He has not won a rally yet. What if he switches to Hyundai, but would not be able to drive it ( number of those who failed is bigger than those who mastered it). All this smoke 2 months till new seasons is bad PR to all, including M-Sport.

And also just for one season. He will surely not be in the mix straight away. Look how much Tanak did need to adapt to drive that car. Even this year he looked like he would waste another season try to managing i20.

Adrien also saying that he haven got M-Sport offer yet. So if that moment was before he publicly say he know where he will drive then, it's sure it's Hyundai. But M-Sport is trying to find a budget every year and it's understandable to be the last at the party.

Well, his call. I hope that at least M-Sport would get something from rival team.

[Kras]

Adrien quickly becoming boring. I hope he stays at M-sport

[wyler]

People, this series is made by the promoter and focused on M-Sport. I can't believe its airing any surprise that could generate any friction. If this is on YouTube, whatever contract formaux has signed, is already inked.

[denkimi]

Completely agree and why I've wanted to see Rally2 as top class for a while - I do get the 'it might make costs spiral' argument (which I'm not convinced on, but it's plausible), but not so much the cars being unspectacular, because the drivers make the cars spectacular.

When you watch the top guys really pushing Rally2's they are plenty spectacular, especially when they have a bit less - go watch Neuville's various runs in R5s and Rally2s in Ypres; car moves around more, has less rear grip.

That hope is gone, but for me it's the drivers that make the cars spectacular at the top 4wd level, with how far they're willing and able to push them beyond their limit.
To make cars look spectacular we just need good drivers and a lot of sound. Actual speed is almost impossible to see to humans.

[Eli]

''We have officially signed a contract with the WRC Promoter for organizing the European Rally Championship (ERC) in 2025 and the World Rally Championship (WRC) in 2026 and 2027. The ERC Croatia Rally will take place in October 2025, while the WRC event will continue to be hosted in April as in previous years.'' official Croatia Rally FB account.

So basically with Croatia in the 2026 Calendar, most slots of that year are closed no? Apart from CER? Is there any round that currently doesn't have a valid contract for 2026? Meaning the streak of 7 consecutive gravel events will likely continue into 2026?

[Doon]

That hope is gone, but for me it's the drivers that make the cars spectacular at the top 4wd level, with how far they're willing and able to push them beyond their limit.

This has been my view for years. A 2003 WRC car was probably slower than a modern Rally 2 car, and in terms of sound they are mostly on par. Would anyone say the 2003 season was boring? No, because there we 6 manufacturer teams, a handful of decent privateers in decent cars giving us 20+ top level cars at each event, 6 different rally winners in 4 different manufacturer's cars, and about 8 drivers at the start of the season who were capable of winner.

The endless search for speed and power is the WRCs downfall. Quite frankly, as a fan, i couldn't care less if the hybrid unit is fitted.

[TypeR]

Hybrid OUT from 2025!

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybrid-removed-from-rally1-cars-for-2025/

[Andre Oliveira]

WRC - Rally1 spectacle maintained following technical changes

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/news/main_image/wrc_16x9.png?itok=ca_OgKFn

Rally1 cars will continue to excite fans across the globe in 2025, while providing improved accessibility and affordability for drivers and teams aiming to compete at the top level of the FIA World Rally Championship.

Utilising 100 per cent sustainable fuel, Rally1 cars will be lighter, easier to drive, less complex to maintain, cheaper to use, but just as spectacular to watch when the 2025 season fires up on Rallye Monte-Carlo in January.

Changes to the WRC’s technical regulations, proposed by the WRC Commission after they received support from its members and approved by the FIA World Motor Sport Council via an electronic vote that concluded today, Friday 15 November, confirm that Rally1 cars will no longer use the existing plug-in hybrid units from next year.

At the same time, pausing the use of hybrid technology allows teams and manufacturers to reduce their overall expenditure. Drivers stepping up to the WRC’s top tier will also benefit from simplified transition from Rally2 level.

Indeed, on the WRC-counting ORLEN 80th Rally Poland in June, Mārtiṇš Sesks demonstrated the potential of the concept as he set four top-three stage times and held second place for three stages during his Rally1 debut driving a Ford Puma with ballast fitted in lieu of using a plug-in hybrid unit.

From 2025, the minimum weight of Rally1 cars will be lowered from 1260 kilograms to 1180 kilograms and the air restrictor size reduced from 36mm to 35mm to maintain an equivalent power-to-weight ratio between the 2024 and 2025 vehicles.

FIA President Mohammed Ben Sulayem said: "The rich heritage and unique appeal of this sport, which is so dear to my heart, are invaluable, and we are committed to safeguarding its future. This development is important not only for the championship's stakeholders to adapt to the evolving energy landscape, but also for containing costs. By focusing on sustainable fuel and simplifying car technology, we’re ensuring the WRC remains captivating for fans and achievable for competitors.”

FIA Chief Technical and Safety Officer Xavier Mestelan-Pinon said: “Following extensive dialogue with key stakeholders, it became clear that continuing to use the plug-in hybrid units provided under the existing supplier agreement was no longer in the best interests of the FIA World Rally Championship. We can now move forward in full confidence that the WRC becomes even better and stronger, with developments that are in line with the working perspective for the 2027 technical regulations. Once again, we have highlighted the championship’s ability to adapt without diluting the sporting spectacle, while responsibly embracing the challenges of our times. We are also pleased that the use of 100 per cent sustainable fuel remains a cornerstone of the championship’s commitment to reducing its environmental impact.”

https://www.fia.com/news/wrc-rally1-spectacle-maintained-following-technical-changes

[deephouse]

Finally. It was about time. Hope that teams will have enough time to prepare, and not have so much technical issues in Monte already because of that.

[Eli]

Hybrid OUT from 2025!

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hybrid-removed-from-rally1-cars-for-2025/

Just a little(!) shame, they’re reducing the turbo restrictor from 36 to 35mm although I doubt it will change much in terms of sound (& Power) for next year; Would’ve liked to see them retain the amount of power they had back in 2017-2021, none the less, I’m glad they got rid of the hybrid. As a side bonus we’ll (hopefully) get to see the numbers back on the doors and the telemetry will (hopefully) be easier to read.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

So the lower weight limit means the dummy hybrid ballast is no longer needed ? Didnt they say the cars needed this as the cars were designed for it and its effect on their balance?

[deephouse]

Maybe just a PR shit, because we all know that non-hybrid car without ballast would probably beat full hybrid powered car. At the end they would fool themselves if Sesks would beat all on the field. I see it like that, that now, when they will take out units from all cars, they suddenly don't need ballast.

[wyler]

they just decreased the weight to keep power/weight ratio. that doesn't mean that they will not use ballast in the back. they can reduce weight in other areas to keep the car balanced.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

they just decreased the weight to keep power/weight ratio. that doesn't mean that they will not use ballast in the back. they can reduce weight in other areas to keep the car balanced.

That's some work required then. Why not just leave the weight and increase the power (restrictor) ?

[manthey]

could a 2024 rally 1 hybrid run on wrc 2025? because of the equivalent power to weight ratio

[TypeR]

Let's hope it(not adding ballast) won't lead to dangerous moments for drivers..

I mean that in case of wanting to keep the weight minimal, but taking the risk of car being less stable and more surprising on some sections..


I don't know how much room there is, but maybe it is possibly to rearrange spare wheel position lower or more to where Hy system was.

But we'll see how it goes it already in 2 months time :)

[Eli]

I’m sure the drivers feel a bit of relief with no hybrid systems in their cars at the Acropolis Rally in June & less stress on the cars in Safari Rally Kenya.

[wyler]

That's some work required then. Why not just leave the weight and increase the power (restrictor) ?

bunch of reasons: balance, reliability of transmission (changing restrictor affects the whole powertrain resistance) and so on. and teams are constantly developing anyway with jokers.

[macebig]

Now ban carbon fiber parts and we will be going somewhere...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

CD reaction to hybrid being dropped...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc-hybrid-supplier-reacts-to-being-dropped/

Seems like they can only blame themselves for changing how their unit must be checked and the costs associated.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Now ban carbon fibre parts and we will be going somewhere...

With the lower weight limit this seems unlikely.

[saco0o]

shouldnt wrc create something to engage more with people that knows rally because they play DIRT and watch quick rally crashes videos on the internet?
i have NO IDEA what, but i have 6 friends (i asked this last weekend during a mate's wedding haha) that have DIRT on their console but NEVER watched a single WRC 2min highlight. and lets be fair, theres probably zero people on this planet that skips a rally crash video on their social media thing.

what could fia-wrc-promoter do to increase the awareness of the champioship to these people? i dont own a console anymore, its been a long time, but i remember never seeing real life driver's names in DIRT. i dont remember which ones i played tho. could that make some difference? like "jeeez, i can never beat this AI called Kalle Rovampera" haha idk. ("oh, hes the actuall rally champion! ohhh")

on the crash videos thing... i mean, its weird that most folks dont even know what "WRC" mean. maybe WRC itself could start re-uploading crash videos haha but naming driver-year, name of the championship. having clickable links to get more info. IDK... just woke up thinking about that

[becher]

So the lower weight limit means the dummy hybrid ballast is no longer needed ? Didnt they say the cars needed this as the cars were designed for it and its effect on their balance?

Some people on the forum claimed that without any valid argument or understanding.

[becher]

With the lower weight limit this seems unlikely.
You do realize that the MGU unit was around 100kg, but the cars are only 80kg lighter? So there will be some ballast but not the MGU dummy weight. I would guess they are free to place ballast as they are already now.

Banning carbon fiber parts would be pointless in the middle of the rules cycle.

[Mary Mary]

At 36 > 35mm restrictor it could be something like 360 hp at 1180 kg = 3.27 kg/hp. Hybrid car would be 380 hp at 1260 kg = 3.32 kg/hp. For comparison, Rally2 is at 289 hp at 1230 kg = 4.25 kg/hp.

There should still be similar spectacle but not the boost from start.

[Jarek Z]

on the crash videos thing... i mean, its weird that most folks dont even know what "WRC" mean. maybe WRC itself could start re-uploading crash videos haha but naming driver-year, name of the championship. having clickable links to get more info. IDK... just woke up thinking about that

You mean something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCm7t1osluM

[Jarek Z]

or this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FXfClBq5MQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utEIgYe--wQ

[saco0o]

or this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FXfClBq5MQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utEIgYe--wQ

see? more than a million views! ERC's most watched video on the channel! yet I doubt 90% of the people who saw this clip know there is an european rally championship, u'know? =/

[TWRC]

At 36 > 35mm restrictor it could be something like 360 hp at 1180 kg = 3.27 kg/hp. Hybrid car would be 380 hp at 1260 kg = 3.32 kg/hp. For comparison, Rally2 is at 289 hp at 1230 kg = 4.25 kg/hp.

There should still be similar spectacle but not the boost from start.
AFAIK, Rally2s have been over 300HP for quite a few years.

[Fiesta]

So basically with Croatia in the 2026 Calendar, most slots of that year are closed no? Apart from CER? Is there any round that currently doesn't have a valid contract for 2026? Meaning the streak of 7 consecutive gravel events will likely continue into 2026?

Could it be Spain in the fall 2026? Wasn't there news that Spain wanted to explore the possibility of switching between Canary Islands and the Mainland, Salou area? Salou has the proven and good area for rally.

[becher]

AFAIK, Rally2s have been over 300HP for quite a few years.

For the sake of comparison it makes sense to use the official numbers, unless someone has pretty accurate numbers for a Rally1 engine?

[deephouse]

Could it be Spain in the fall 2026? Wasn't there news that Spain wanted to explore the possibility of switching between Canary Islands and the Mainland, Salou area? Salou has the proven and good area for rally.

The sad part is the tarmac rounds only replace tarmac ones, so we can assume that either Canary will lost a place for Croatia or they will stay and CER will be gone. Japan, have new contract until 2028 but they don't run that event in april time usualy. Maybe they will finaly put another tarmac event in the middle of season to break that gravel dominance of events, but we can just hope of that happening.

[Eli]

Could it be Spain in the fall 2026? Wasn't there news that Spain wanted to explore the possibility of switching between Canary Islands and the Mainland, Salou area? Salou has the proven and good area for rally.

Yes since the Canary Islands have a contract in place for 2025-2026 it would make sense they’d take up that slot, and then come 2027 they’d go back to Salou like it was (almost) always in October. However, it would mean the layout would still be, Tarmac event in April and then nothing in-between for 6 months…but who knows, 2027 is a long way a away, and a lot can change until then. It’s purely speculative at this point.

[Sal yet again]

Who knows. If they listen to Kalle all the events will be held in field in Tuscany over one day...

[106 sport]

Could it be Spain in the fall 2026? Wasn't there news that Spain wanted to explore the possibility of switching between Canary Islands and the Mainland, Salou area? Salou has the proven and good area for rally.

I think that is not what is planned.
The idea is that the rally that represents Spain in the World Rally Championship remains forever in Gran Canaria.

[deephouse]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-stars-claim-about-toyota-comes-as-a-complete-surprise-to-jari-matti-latvala-i-can-honestly-say/ I don't know who is lying now, but if Adrien is ''rising'' his value like that, then he will soon become most hated driver in the field.

[becher]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-stars-claim-about-toyota-comes-as-a-complete-surprise-to-jari-matti-latvala-i-can-honestly-say/ I don't know who is lying now, but if Adrien is ''rising'' his value like that, then he will soon become most hated driver in the field.
Remember Drive to Survive? It is documentary-fiction with a whole lot of bs. It be a shame if they took a look at that and thought "we need some of those".

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-stars-claim-about-toyota-comes-as-a-complete-surprise-to-jari-matti-latvala-i-can-honestly-say/ I don't know who is lying now, but if Adrien is ''rising'' his value like that, then he will soon become most hated driver in the field.

Maybe he didnt get an "official offer", but in their chat it was said the best they could possibly have available is a part-season.

[PLuto]

I think that is not what is planned.
The idea is that the rally that represents Spain in the World Rally Championship remains forever in Gran Canaria.

I dont think so...

[TypeR]

Maybe he didnt get an "official offer", but in their chat it was said the best they could possibly have available is a part-season.
This,


and I believe Latvala himself is not in a position to make such offers :D

[Eli]

I think that is not what is planned.
The idea is that the rally that represents Spain in the World Rally Championship remains forever in Gran Canaria.

No, they said they only want it so they can celebrate their 50th anniversary in the WRC, after that there's no reason the rally in Spain shouldn't return to Catalunya.

[Eli]

It was a bad idea back in 2012-2013, no reason why it'll suddenly be a good one in 2025: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/qualifying-tipped-to-return-to-the-wrc-for-2025/

That's WRC for you I guess, replacing bad implmentaions of rules with other bad ones....and to make sure they don't change it they announce it just before the end of the year...

[deephouse]

Of course they decide all those things at the last moment or too late.

[Eli]

Also regarding the changes for next year: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-wants-fia-to-rethink-2025-rally1-air-restrictor-rule-change/10674772/

[denkimi]

It was a bad idea back in 2012-2013, no reason why it'll suddenly be a good one in 2025: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/qualifying-tipped-to-return-to-the-wrc-for-2025/

That's WRC for you I guess, replacing bad implmentaions of rules with other bad ones....and to make sure they don't change it they announce it just before the end of the year...
I see why a qualifying stage could be a good idea, but why would you only let the top 3 participate? Either every rc1 does it, or none.

[deephouse]

And yet that problem would simply be fixed with one tarmac round being put/moved in the middle of season, then we wouldn't needed to have that conversation at all.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Possibly four Rally1 Cars each for Toyota and Hyundai next season ?

https://rallyjournal.com/a-major-reveal-from-hyundais-team-boss-about-toyotas-rally-team/

[wyler]

I see why a qualifying stage could be a good idea, but why would you only let the top 3 participate? Either every rc1 does it, or none.

actually I kinda agree with Millener. that could be a good compromise.

“There was some discussion of a return to full qualifying, which I wasn’t in favor of because I believe the best drivers will always come to the top and it will be the same few drivers winning qualifying and choosing the best position on the road.

“Is there a compromise? I wondered if we could just do the top three in the championship? The driver who’s in fourth place would have started fourth on the road anyway, so it doesn’t impact on them. This is a good compromise.”

[ictus]

actually I kinda agree with Millener. that could be a good compromise.

“There was some discussion of a return to full qualifying, which I wasn’t in favor of because I believe the best drivers will always come to the top and it will be the same few drivers winning qualifying and choosing the best position on the road.

“Is there a compromise? I wondered if we could just do the top three in the championship? The driver who’s in fourth place would have started fourth on the road anyway, so it doesn’t impact on them. This is a good compromise.”

What a load of BS!!!
He could say it straight - M Sport Cars are so underdeveloped that they will never reach top 3. Or beter yet, give slower drivers a time handicap...

[COD]

Quali has been tested and worked well in ERC. Why water it down to just 3? All Rally 1 cars would be the right way to go

[PLuto]

Quali has been tested and worked well in ERC. Why water it down to just 3? All Rally 1 cars would be the right way to go

WRC and ERC is quite different in this way. In WRC you have only 9-10 cars in the highest class (and only few of them able to fight for podium). Nobody else has a chance to be on top places. Most of the drivers is doing whole championship (ok, this year there were so many with not complete season), so championship standings can work. On the other hand, in ERC you have some regulars and plenty of locals (or guests) who can fight for podium and even a win. So proper qualifying is a need...

And if you look in last years in WRC, there was for a long time driver who was above the others (Loeb, Ogier, Rovanpera) so they need to find a way how to allow others to fight with them...

[wyler]

What a load of BS!!!
He could say it straight - M Sport Cars are so underdeveloped that they will never reach top 3. Or beter yet, give slower drivers a time handicap...

WTF??
and where this proposal would help?

it's just a "remix" of the first 3 drivers. will not affect slower drivers/underdeveloped cars anyway.

[COD]

WRC and ERC is quite different in this way. In WRC you have only 9-10 cars in the highest class (and only few of them able to fight for podium). Nobody else has a chance to be on top places. Most of the drivers is doing whole championship (ok, this year there were so many with not complete season), so championship standings can work. On the other hand, in ERC you have some regulars and plenty of locals (or guests) who can fight for podium and even a win. So proper qualifying is a need...

And if you look in last years in WRC, there was for a long time driver who was above the others (Loeb, Ogier, Rovanpera) so they need to find a way how to allow others to fight with them...

There are allways surprises on the shakedown stage, so quali is not a slam dunk. And drivers can make mistakes, so it would add to the show

[deephouse]

So as things stands we could get 2025 WRC season with major changes:
-New tire supplier
-Drop of Hybrid unit
-Shakedown stage become qualify stage
-Point system tweaked
-3 completely new events
-Ex champion coming back (so having Neuville, Tanak, Ogier and Rovanpera fight for title with addition of Evans and just ''maybe'' Fourmaux)
-Having detailed live data on events
-Remote service reintroduced

Considering that only few of those things is confirmed for upcoming season yet.

What they really need to do is to fix that RallyTV site/app. Just today it crashed/log me out around 10 times, very slow and unfriendly to user (still).

But bring it on upcoming season. Bring it on 2025 World Rally Championship.

[AE1WRC]

In the future when the older generation drivers (Thierry, Ott and Elfyn) retires, who can we see to promote to the top level. Obviously we would have KR (?), Sami, Sesks, Oliver. Who else ?
HOT TAKE:
What are your opinions about Ali Turkkan and the recent Rally1 news about him in dirtfish. I believe he is the fastest in WRC 3 but still needs to be more consistent but I like that guy's potential to be at the top level. In Turkish championship he is smoking everyone who is driving a Rally2 car by driving only Rally3 on both Gravel and Tarmac.

[PLuto]

What are your opinions about Ali Turkkan and the recent Rally1 news about him in dirtfish. I believe he is the fastest in WRC 3 but still needs to be more consistent but I like that guy's potential to be at the top level. In Turkish championship he is smoking everyone who is driving a Rally2 car by driving only Rally3 on both Gravel and Tarmac.

Too early to put him into Rally1...

[TypeR]

Too early to put him into Rally1...
Another rally1 entry would be cool, but...

Yes, he has pace, but.. 3 stages and off, 3 stages and off.. etc

[dupanton]

Japan was the last rally for Malkonen with Pajari...

Maybe a sign he will drive full time with Toyota next year which might be too much for Enni?

[meh]

Japan was the last rally for Malkonen with Pajari...

Maybe a sign he will drive full time with Toyota next year which might be too much for Enni?

Related article from DF: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/pajari-and-co-driver-malkonen-end-their-partnership/

Makes me a bit sad, I can speculate every kind of reasons, but as those are just random ideas, I don't even throw them out. I'm glad that they got the title.

[saco0o]

hmmmmmmm dirt fish asked taka about 2025, he said he is not signed yet, but "I'll try to do my best if I can drive something". he said he dont know what happens yet but they will have an announcement soon.
just me or that sounded like a return to rally2?
https://www.facebook.com/DirtFishRally/videos/895523992764211/?st=4GainGcR2Pg
around 4 min

hmm later Martjin saying he sacrified a lot, hes been away from home a lot.
idk, maybe its just because its the end of the season, but this also felt like "Oh, im quitting WRC for 25" haha maybe just me

ps: THIS PICTURE!
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=968081788681407&set=a.623696733119916
F* cyril! F* hyundai!! cry babies

[EstWRC]

Pajari promoted to full seat https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-signs-pajari-for-fourth-full-time-2025-seat/

So that means we have 4 Toyotas every rally and even five when Ogier is participating on his rallies

[doubled1978]

Pajari promoted to full seat https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-signs-pajari-for-fourth-full-time-2025-seat/

So that means we have 4 Toyotas every rally and even five when Ogier is participating on his rallies

Yeah, and hopefully Hyundai commits to the 4 cars as well. It will at least bulk out the field a bit.

[flat_right]

ps: THIS PICTURE!
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=968081788681407&set=a.623696733119916
F* cyril! F* hyundai!! cry babies

c'mon man... what the hell do you expect from the first minute of losing the manus title? Celebrate? Give them a break...

[TypeR]

That's quite a surprise.. didn't expect full time him, but nice christmas present :D

Solberg (rally1+r5) sharing car with Ogier then?

[Morte66]

Pajari promoted to full seat https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyota-signs-pajari-for-fourth-full-time-2025-seat/

So that means we have 4 Toyotas every rally and even five when Ogier is participating on his rallies

Budget. Toyota has it.

I reckon they're throwing money at the problem of "How do we develop Pajari while Ogier ages out, and simultaneously carry Katsuta for the marketing department?"

Edit: also, wow. That is not what I guessed yesterday. I thought they'd run four cars, and Pajari would do WRC1 when Ogier didn't. Toyota is doubling down.

[flat_right]

Budget. Toyota has it.

...

Toyota is doubling down.

Which is a great news I think. The more Rally1 cars we have, the better. There are some discussions that Hyundai will run 4 cars instead of 3. https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-to-discuss-expansion-to-four-wrc-cars-in-2025/10674980/

[Andre Oliveira]

https://toyotagazooracing.com/pressrelease/2024/1125-01/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3GOqGMySOGgKw2HhFvLhvw H7xdpAX6gaSsgSc3KzTW9MefikGCmLlPxVo_aem_Z6VuJFZ1Zy Kdkmr7Fm-Jrw

[Morte66]

I will be very interested to see who replaces Pajari's co-driver.

Are they putting in a mentor, like M-Sport did with Jarmo Lehtinen (Mika Hirvonen's former co-driver) for Teemu Suninen? Or do they have a problem with Enni Mälkönen?

[Dimitris]

Salminen maybe

[Humber]

Is Ville Mannisenmäki available? Co-driver for Asunmaa & did the Acropolis with Joona.

[CeskyOndra]

Wow what a great news to get up on Monday morning! Imagine that Toyota's are running 5 cars, Hyundai 4 and Ford maybe 3 sometimes! Having 11-12 Rally1 cars on some events would be very very nice.

[Eli]

Katsuta is full time for next year @CeskyOndra
Now Toyota just needs to fix their ugly livery.
Glad to see Evans continue too, shame that Pajari and Enni spilt up, I hope it wasn’t Pajari’s decision. That would be (even more) cruel after their success together.

[Rallyper]

Katsuta is full time for next year @CeskyOndra
Now Toyota just needs to fix their ugly livery.
Glad to see Evans continue too, shame that Pajari and Enni spilt up, I hope it wasn’t Pajari’s decision. That would be (even more) cruel after their success together.

It would surprise me much if it was Pajaris choice.
Toyota muscles up and you have to go with their planning.

[Eli]

It would surprise me much if it was Pajaris choice.
Toyota muscles up and you have to go with their planning.

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too, shame, they were a great pairing and it feels harsh to rob Enni from stepping up too.

[ShiftyLV]

Happy for Pajari, definitely well deserved.
I guess there really isn't a good Japanese substitute for Katsuta. I like the guy but he has been underwhelming...

[AndersX]

I just would like to add some oil to the fire here: I like that young guys like Pajari get all their chances from R3 to R2 to R1. Good. Even great. Another fast Finn in the pipeline of championship capable drivers. But I think today car brands are not the ones that attract people to rallying - it is people, personalities and national heroes. Popularity of rally would grow regionally if we would have strong drivers from Italy, England, Germany, Spain, South America, Eastern Europe. How adding another Finn or Japanese driver would rise awareness and popularity of the WRC in Italy or Germany, for example, or even England? Please understand me correctly, Pajari fully deserves his place in WRC, he has potential to become the champion one day, clearly. It is like automatic - if you are a fast Finn, you will get your chance. But if you are fast Italian, Spaniard, Englishman, Pole or even Argentinian - would you have equal opportunities?

I think we have been looking to the wrong direction with how to rise the popularity of rally - everyone thinks that bringing rally to new territories or having 1 more manufacturer is the key to success. I would start to doubt it. We need local heroes, stars, national heroes, potential national billboard figures. Smth like Sesks became in LAT this summer. Imagine rise of the rally-fever in ITA if Lancia gets fast Italian driver with championship potential? Golden. Or if M-Sport would have English driver or some fast young man from Poland. (By the way, McErlearn from Ireland is very interesting prospect. He is fast on all surfaces, keep an eye on him) . In the end, Pajari promotion is good for Toyota and Finns, but WRC is not gaining from it in the long run.

I would like to use a very popular word - we need Diversity!

[COD]

I just would like to add some oil to the fire here: I like that young guys like Pajari get all their chances from R3 to R2 to R1. Good. Even great. Another fast Finn in the pipeline of championship capable drivers. But I think today car brands are not the ones that attract people to rallying - it is people, personalities and national heroes. Popularity of rally would grow regionally if we would have strong drivers from Italy, England, Germany, Spain, South America, Eastern Europe. How adding another Finn or Japanese driver would rise awareness and popularity of the WRC in Italy or Germany, for example, or even England? Please understand me correctly, Pajari fully deserves his place in WRC, he has potential to become the champion one day, clearly. It is like automatic - if you are a fast Finn, you will get your chance. But if you are fast Italian, Spaniard, Englishman, Pole or even Argentinian - would you have equal opportunities?

I think we have been looking to the wrong direction with how to rise the popularity of rally - everyone thinks that bringing rally to new territories or having 1 more manufacturer is the key to success. I would start to doubt it. We need local heroes, stars, national heroes, potential national billboard figures. Smth like Sesks became in LAT this summer. Imagine rise of the rally-fever in ITA if Lancia gets fast Italian driver with championship potential? Golden. Or if M-Sport would have English driver or some fast young man from Poland. (By the way, McErlearn from Ireland is very interesting prospect. He is fast on all surfaces, keep an eye on him) . In the end, Pajari promotion is good for Toyota and Finns, but WRC is not gaining from it in the long run.

I would like to use a very popular word - we need Diversity!

I’m sure that the teams would be happy to get a driver from a country that doesn’t have a WRC driver yet, but the thing is they want the best, not the most suitable (some exeptions of course). But I rather have all the fastest there, than half the field of Munsters.

[AndyRAC]

It is like automatic - if you are a fast Finn, you will get your chance. But if you are fast Italian, Spaniard, Englishman, Pole or even Argentinian - would you have equal opportunities?



The simple answer is NO!! It's 2024 and the sport can't let go of the Finnish obsession......Another reason the sport is never going to be big; even countries with motorsport history can't supply drivers to the WRC. We've seen countless Finns get opportunities, even when they didn't deserve them - whereas other drivers never get a sniff. The passport is still a major obstacle in the sport - and the Finns look out for each other, so there'll always be chances for a seat.

Imagine the WRC without a Finn.....that would tell you the sport was in a strong place.......

[deephouse]

Look in WorldRX championship and find diversity there. It could be called WSRX (World Scandinavian Rallycross Championship).

If I would choose I would rather pick many finns than any new french driver. I mean they are so arrogant and egoistic, full of themselves and the world spins arount them (I mean they think it does). Even Fourmaux is getting like that, I'm more and more towards hating him.

But it's true of diversity. It should be many flags on the grid, but sadly even WRC is running by money and connections. I can name one driver at least who shouldn't be here today or tomorrow. I may be wrong but I have a feeling it will be the same story next year, but what can we do if the money is playing major role here and the real talents don't even get a real shot to shine on stages. (And that's how one always dominate stages and the other ones have 2 or 3 minutes differences.)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latvala confirms 2025 Historic Championship entry with Janni Hussi...

https://rallyjournal.com/jari-matti-latvala-shares-big-news-big-international-challenge-ahead-for-janni-hussi/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I’m sure that the teams would be happy to get a driver from a country that doesn’t have a WRC driver yet, but the thing is they want the best, not the most suitable (some exeptions of course). But I rather have all the fastest there, than half the field of Munsters.

Correct..
if you're good enough you will make it.

[AndersX]

Ok, additional argument: do you think a good Finn needs the same budget to impress the world as an Englishman?

Dig deeper, look what track record of success has the mastermind agent behind all those champion-Finns.

I say, this sport needs not only diversity in drivers, but more tallent in "agent" layer as well. Timo "owns" WRC for some time. But he is not young any more, he might retire one day. It might make to decline of finnish national dominance.

[Walach]

The simple answer is NO!! It's 2024 and the sport can't let go of the Finnish obsession......Another reason the sport is never going to be big; even countries with motorsport history can't supply drivers to the WRC. We've seen countless Finns get opportunities, even when they didn't deserve them - whereas other drivers never get a sniff. The passport is still a major obstacle in the sport - and the Finns look out for each other, so there'll always be chances for a seat.

Imagine the WRC without a Finn.....that would tell you the sport was in a strong place.......

This feels like reading Jon Ingram's twitter account

[EstWRC]

This feels like reading Jon Ingram's twitter account

Well that guy always comes and only bashes. Never a good word from him

[saco0o]

c'mon man... what the hell do you expect from the first minute of losing the manus title? Celebrate? Give them a break...

hehe i'm just happy latvala won over cyril on this title fight, mate :P

[macebig]

So, at least 10 R1s in each round for 2025. Probably 12+ in rounds Ogier participates and M-Sport fields 4 Pumas. It's progress.

[doubled1978]

It’s a shame for Enni to not be part of Sami’s R1 future, seems it was his decision according to her instagram account I saw posted somewhere.
I can’t help but feel a little sad about it, but on the other hand, it shows a ruthless streak in him that maybe is a good sign of his mentality to win.

[macebig]

Feels like Pajari wants an experienced codriver for Rally1. What is Jarmo Lehtinen doing these days?Shame for Malkonen, though.

[deephouse]

Imagine her in a few years from now, being beside some other driver and winning the title before Pajari :P

What if he decide to get a male co-driver for a fact, that he could depend on him (repairs on roads since many times this things do co-drivers and drivers are on phone :P), but I bet Enni could be able to do that job also and I bet she did it before as she is already long in that position.

[flat_right]

WRC.com is quite ambitions with it's post. It shows at least 4 drivers for each team.

https://www.upload.ee/image/17433984/upload.png

[macebig]

Don't think its ambitious. Let's say Hyundai keeps its current lineup and M-Sport adds Sesks and gives more rounds to Serderidis. Very probable scenario with costs coming down now.

[TypeR]

Whatever the reasons were, it seems like there was lack of conversations as she sounded very disappointed.

I believe that if it had been talked thru nicely etc.. there would have not been a need for such post.




E: maybe Sami found a girlfriend, who said ,,no way, Jose''.. :D *


*(just a reallyreally funny joke)

[Managarium]

Feels like Pajari wants an experienced codriver for Rally1. What is Jarmo Lehtinen doing these days?Shame for Malkonen, though.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-suninens-co-driver-is-leaving-for-team-management/

[becher]

WRC.com is quite ambitions with it's post. It shows at least 4 drivers for each team.

https://www.upload.ee/image/17433984/upload.png

The only way I see "four" entries from M Sport is if they keep Munster thanks to Serderidis, have Sesks and Rossel (Grayzin, Solberg, whoever) sharing one car and either keeping Fourmaux or actually hiring a replacement for him.

Or they found a guy like that lithuanian in 2020 who just pays for a full season in an official car.

[denkimi]

Hyundai should sign gryazin and/or rossel. They need to start looking into developing replacements for tanak and neuville. They aren't going to be around for that many years.

[CeskyOndra]

Hyundai should sign gryazin and/or rossel. They need to start looking into developing replacements for tanak and neuville. They aren't going to be around for that many years.

If they (Hyundai) retire in 25 or 26 there is no reason to do that sadly

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Latvala confirms 2025 Historic Championship entry with Janni Hussi...

https://rallyjournal.com/jari-matti-latvala-shares-big-news-big-international-challenge-ahead-for-janni-hussi/

Latvala using the black TGR livery in 2025 so maybe the WRC cars wont change...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GdPJL6hWUAA397F?format=jpg&name=medium

[deephouse]

Hyundai should sign gryazin and/or rossel. They need to start looking into developing replacements for tanak and neuville. They aren't going to be around for that many years.

I got a strange feeling that Gryazin did back off for Neuville to climb on 7th place. His comments was weird after that and it only add to that theory. And when he was asked before rally if he will somehow ''help'' Solberg, he then firmly told he will do his own thing, that he will not back for anyone. And then that time come and Neuville was on 7th place. Because it could be done hardly if there was 10 or 15 seconds between them on Toyota stadium stage. So I got questioning if Gryazin have been contacted somehow from Hyundai or Neuville himself. It could be a crucial moment that the Hyundai could actualy start looking at him, since he is doing well on tarmac.

It could be awesome if he got some event or two in a rally1 car to prove himself. We don't had that few years ago. There was very little opportunities to newcomers, and because of that many of promising drivers are not seen anywhere now.

[saco0o]

wait, where does this "msport with 4 cars" is coming from? that'd be great tho.
hope they rent all rally1 cars they have. hope hyundai and toyota rent their other rally1s too. any chances?
hard to believe factory teams would risk renting their cars to may be beaten BUT you can fix that by having the rented cars also being able to score manufacutrer points, eh? if GUS rent a hyundai for one round and finished as the second best hyundai, the point goes to the manufacturer. valid idea?

[Andre Oliveira]

The designer aligned the slots and you start rumouring about that...

[becher]

wait, where does this "msport with 4 cars" is coming from? that'd be great tho.
hope they rent all rally1 cars they have. hope hyundai and toyota rent their other rally1s too. any chances?
hard to believe factory teams would risk renting their cars to may be beaten BUT you can fix that by having the rented cars also being able to score manufacutrer points, eh? if GUS rent a hyundai for one round and finished as the second best hyundai, the point goes to the manufacturer. valid idea?

No you can at most nominate three cars, they could do a B team like Katsutas NG TGR thing a few years back though.

[AE1WRC]

Is Ville Mannisenmäki available? Co-driver for Asunmaa & did the Acropolis with Joona.

Ville is Kalle's backup co driver. I don't think so. Maybe Miikka Anttila or Jarmo Lehtinen ?

[saco0o]

No you can at most nominate three cars, they could do a B team like Katsutas NG TGR thing a few years back though.

hmm sure, but they can rearrange this rule - IF both manufacturers (hyu/toy), msport and potential privateers were interested in doing it.

[deephouse]

Wasn't back then the thing with those "satellite teams" that only two cars could be entered? And what was the thing with Citroen junior f9r example or Ford stobart etc.?

[becher]

Wasn't back then the thing with those "satellite teams" that only two cars could be entered? And what was the thing with Citroen junior f9r example or Ford stobart etc.?
Yes, I think at the time they were allowed maximum two official factory cars.

[tomhlord]

I got a strange feeling that Gryazin did back off for Neuville to climb on 7th place. His comments was weird after that and it only add to that theory. And when he was asked before rally if he will somehow ''help'' Solberg, he then firmly told he will do his own thing, that he will not back for anyone. And then that time come and Neuville was on 7th place. Because it could be done hardly if there was 10 or 15 seconds between them on Toyota stadium stage. So I got questioning if Gryazin have been contacted somehow from Hyundai or Neuville himself. It could be a crucial moment that the Hyundai could actualy start looking at him, since he is doing well on tarmac.

It could be awesome if he got some event or two in a rally1 car to prove himself. We don't had that few years ago. There was very little opportunities to newcomers, and because of that many of promising drivers are not seen anywhere now.His Power Stage interview was interesting as well, talking about the dream of Rally1 for 2025.

Sent from my A063 using Tapatalk

[AndersX]

This delayed announcement on 2025 team from Hyundai starts to smell not so grate.

First, Toyota beat them on WMC, then on PR front announcing 4 full time cars with new gun in one of them. While H delayed announcement indicates on some unexpected aftermath after Sundays disaster. Plus,inability to make decisions. We all remember their delays with building this new car and how did it turned out.

I hope I am mistaken here, but there is smth strange around the Hyundai team right now.

[deephouse]

This delayed announcement on 2025 team from Hyundai starts to smell not so grate.

First, Toyota beat them on WMC, then on PR front announcing 4 full time cars with new gun in one of them. While H delayed announcement indicates on some unexpected aftermath after Sundays disaster. Plus,inability to make decisions. We all remember their delays with building this new car and how did it turned out.

I hope I am mistaken here, but there is smth strange around the Hyundai team right now.

I think that they wanted first to see what Toyota will bring up. Then they could somehow answer with maybe Adrien in 3rd car and 4th sharing between Sordo/some new youngster or even Lappi/Mikkelsen (if they will get those two another shot).

I don't think they will wait M-Sport to announce their lineup because they're not real threat (on a paper).

Why I'm so sure Adrien is in third car, because the last few months he blame everything on the car he was driving until now.

[Rallyper]

Ville is Kalle's backup co driver. I don't think so. Maybe Miikka Anttila or Jarmo Lehtinen ?

I think co-driver change for Sami was necessary. Stepping up on highest level (whole season) is an investment which must be top all over.
Toyota do things in a proper way, no offence to Mälkönen at all. In a few years she might be enough experienced as well.

[flat_right]

This delayed announcement on 2025 team from Hyundai starts to smell not so grate.

First, Toyota beat them on WMC, then on PR front announcing 4 full time cars with new gun in one of them. While H delayed announcement indicates on some unexpected aftermath after Sundays disaster. Plus,inability to make decisions. We all remember their delays with building this new car and how did it turned out.

I hope I am mistaken here, but there is smth strange around the Hyundai team right now.

What do you mean by delayed? The season literally ended 3 days ago, also Neuville and Tänak are confirmed. Basically I think Fourmaux is also pretty much confirmed. In the series More than Machine he said "It doesn't mean that I am leaving, but Hyundai is offering me a full season, which is interesting. Toyota is [offering] a half season". Somewhere it was also said that he has no offer from M-Sport. And even if he has, I think he would regret not taking Hyundai's offer.

They are also testing 2025 car. Neuville has done it and in the Estonian media Ott also mentioned that between the last two rallies there were extensive tests for 2025. Also they got the green light to use all the available jokers (2025 and 2026) for 2025 season. So basically they are all in.


...unexpected aftermath after Sundays disaster

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-sees-toyotas-manufacturers-title-as-justice/

[denkimi]

If i were hyundai i would hire Neuville, tanak, fourmaux en some youngster, preferably gryazin in a 4th car.

[Backa]

Gryazin seems to be nice option but I am curious what will happen with Teemu Suninen and Emil Lindholm. Driving whole 2024 in crappy Hyundai Rally2 car led to world forgetting about them. Taking Tanak and Mikkelsen is one thing but it would not be great look for Hyundai's "development programme" if they will be rejected again in favour of Gryazin.

[deephouse]

Lindholm had few outings in a Rally1 Hyundai (test). Don't know why, but maybe they are still consider him.

Then Teemu. How much chances shoud the team give him? He had plenty of them, I know Mikkelsen too. But then again. Teemu will not be better than Mikkelsen, Lappi...

The team indeed fucked up to put those two into the Rally2 car and more importantly didn't give much effort to proper develop the car and also both of them, but what can we do.

Sadly there are the only two drivers who have total respect from the team and those two are Neuville (now with the title even more strenghened "relationship") and Sordo. Both are in the team from the start.

There is one guy who is I guess the most loyal to the brand and should be given full WRC2 campaign and support - Paddon, but sadly they just like to brag with him and nothing else.

The dream is to Hyundai running 4 cars but since they started that operation, they never actualy do it. They rather spend all that money on luxury building on every rally.

[saco0o]

i think Fourmaux will still be on the Puma in the upcoming monza rally masters, eh?

[Andre Oliveira]

Contracts end are in December 31st. Usually old team allow test before that but not rallies.

[Eli]

Lindholm had few outings in a Rally1 Hyundai (test). Don't know why, but maybe they are still consider him.

Then Teemu. How much chances shoud the team give him? He had plenty of them, I know Mikkelsen too. But then again. Teemu will not be better than Mikkelsen, Lappi...

The team indeed fucked up to put those two into the Rally2 car and more importantly didn't give much effort to proper develop the car and also both of them, but what can we do.

Sadly there are the only two drivers who have total respect from the team and those two are Neuville (now with the title even more strenghened "relationship") and Sordo. Both are in the team from the start.

There is one guy who is I guess the most loyal to the brand and should be given full WRC2 campaign and support - Paddon, but sadly they just like to brag with him and nothing else.

The dream is to Hyundai running 4 cars but since they started that operation, they never actualy do it. They rather spend all that money on luxury building on every rally.

I think it's stated for next year's regulations that those huge compounds of the teams (Hyundai. Toyota & previously Volkswagen) will make way to a more subdued service park as they'll have to use the sorrounding area as their working ground, that should cut costs and you won't see a huge fortress of Hyundai & Toyota every time you go into the service park.

[Rallyper]

Anything new about Solberg?
Or does the silence about him indicate something´s going on...?

[meh]

Anything new about Solberg?
Or does the silence about him indicate something´s going on...?

It's a silly season and without facts, we can only speculate. The only "news" on that field is that it is highly likely he will not be driving a Toyota Rally1.

[deephouse]

He was linked for Toyota, but he lost against Sami. So that door closed. He admited that he have strong option(s) for WRC2, so I guess still Skoda, Toyota maybe there. I don't think he will go in M-Sport direction.

[rallyfiend]

Anything new about Solberg?
Or does the silence about him indicate something´s going on...?

Printsport Toyota....

[Morte66]

It seems Toyota is going to have five cars to accommodate Ogier part-time. If (not certain) they have five cars' worth of mechanics, truck drivers, catering etc set up for that, might they offer the fifth car to somebody when Ogier isn't driving?

If so, there's the question of who is available. I imagine Gryazin and Rossel might have contracts which lock them to Citroen. Solberg would be easier, especially if he's at Printsport. If Arai were a bit further along, they could give him a go for marketing.

[deephouse]

It seems Toyota is going to have five cars to accommodate Ogier part-time. If (not certain) they have five cars' worth of mechanics, truck drivers, catering etc set up for that, might they offer the fifth car to somebody when Ogier isn't driving?

If so, there's the question of who is available. I imagine Gryazin and Rossel might have contracts which lock them to Citroen. Solberg would be easier, especially if he's at Printsport. If Arai were a bit further along, they could give him a go for marketing.

Arai was beside Katsuta that time, when Toyota started a program for japanese drivers. Katsuta was better and got a seat. Toyota is developing 2nd tier japanese drivers already and if I'm correct 3rd and 4th. So it is covered for years already. That's why Katsuta is feeling more and more pressure. It could be his last season if he will not perform better.

[becher]

It seems Toyota is going to have five cars to accommodate Ogier part-time. If (not certain) they have five cars' worth of mechanics, truck drivers, catering etc set up for that, might they offer the fifth car to somebody when Ogier isn't driving?

If so, there's the question of who is available. I imagine Gryazin and Rossel might have contracts which lock them to Citroen. Solberg would be easier, especially if he's at Printsport. If Arai were a bit further along, they could give him a go for marketing.

Isn't Gryazin a works driver by name only? His special livery in Japan had zero Citroen livery context. So I guess he could go and bring his budget anywhere he wants?

[deephouse]

Isn't Gryazin a works driver by name only? His special livery in Japan had zero Citroen livery context. So I guess he could go and bring his budget anywhere he wants?

I think that those WRC2 programs are really signed only for a year. Except (if) HYPOTHETICALLY Citroen is aiming at top level and want to had those drivers when they will step up, so no one will steal them. But they don't have ''official'' works team, Citroen is operated by DG competition. I guess there is some sort of explanation why Citroen had this year official program in that category with those two drivers. All that we know is that they are looking at 2027 regulations and Lancia having now road to rally again. Althought DG competition did won team title this year and Gyrazin ended on podium at the end of the season. Quite great achievement.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Abiteboul gives a clue...

https://rallyjournal.com/hyundais-big-secret-did-the-team-boss-already-reveal-a-major-clue/

[saco0o]

unfortunately rallyjournal has joined dirtfish on the "post loads of articles saying nothing with some clikcbait titles". (imo)

[EstWRC]

unfortunately rallyjournal has joined dirtfish on the "post loads of articles saying nothing with some clikcbait titles". (imo)

They are even worse.

[BobJones]

unfortunately rallyjournal has joined dirtfish on the "post loads of articles saying nothing with some clikcbait titles". (imo)

Oh god, rallyjournal is far, far, worse for clickbait than DirtFish. There's an art to writing titles, and RJ is at the top of the nonsense so far, despite many of its articles actually being good.

[Rallyper]

It seems Toyota is going to have five cars to accommodate Ogier part-time. If (not certain) they have five cars' worth of mechanics, truck drivers, catering etc set up for that, might they offer the fifth car to somebody when Ogier isn't driving?

If so, there's the question of who is available. I imagine Gryazin and Rossel might have contracts which lock them to Citroen. Solberg would be easier, especially if he's at Printsport. If Arai were a bit further along, they could give him a go for marketing.

Seems quite realistic if Toyota going on with their strategy.
First Pajari
Then Solberg.

Seems no other Rally2 drivers are near those two guys.

[AndersX]

Oh god, rallyjournal is far, far, worse for clickbait than DirtFish. There's an art to writing titles, and RJ is at the top of the nonsense so far, despite many of its articles actually being good.

I think it is some AI tool that actually writes those articles - they repeat all the info that comes from Autosport/Dirtfish and similar, in the same, very cheasy, click bite way. Edits of those articles are similar.

[Morte66]

Seems quite realistic if Toyota going on with their strategy.
First Pajari
Then Solberg.

Seems no other Rally2 drivers are near those two guys.

I agree.

One other guy I'd be interested in is Franceschi, who came second in ERC to Paddon. I think he did very well for his years and he's quick. But I think he's a year or two behind Solberg, and not ready for WRC1, so I'd be offering him a WRC2 drive to get him into the Toyota family.

[tomhlord]

I think it is some AI tool that actually writes those articles - they repeat all the info that comes from Autosport/Dirtfish and similar, in the same, very cheasy, click bite way. Edits of those articles are similar.Eurgh!

Sent from my A063 using Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I think it is some AI tool that actually writes those articles - they repeat all the info that comes from Autosport/Dirtfish and similar, in the same, very cheasy, click bite way. Edits of those articles are similar.

A while ago I contacted Rally Journal and told them they must quote their sources and they did then start doing so, quoting Dirtfish, Autosport, etc.

However they do attend the WRC events and are there when press conferences are held, so they can use some of the same words.

I agree on their article titles though, but remember they are new so need plenty of clicks for funding.

[stonde]

A while ago I contacted Rally Journal and told them they must quote their sources and they did then start doing so, quoting Dirtfish, Autosport, etc.

However they do attend the WRC events and are there when press conferences are held, so they can use some of the same words.

I agree on their article titles though, but remember they are new so need plenty of clicks for funding.

This is slightly off-topic, but I’d like to take a moment to clarify a few things.

I’m the editor-in-chief of RallyJournal.com. We launched the site in February, so it’s still relatively new and not yet widely known. Understandably, this raises questions about its reliability.

Our team consists of professionals who have been running the Finnish site Rallit.fi for years, which some of you here might already be familiar with. Currently, RallyJournal publishes essentially the same news as Rallit.fi, but translated into English. We write all our articles ourselves.

We have reporters present at every WRC event, gathering material for our news articles. Occasionally, we also incorporate information from other sources, such as DirtFish and Autosport, which have been mentioned here as well. We always cite our sources (and have done so from the start) in accordance with proper journalistic practices.

At times, it might seem to outsiders that we simply copy articles from other outlets, especially when our articles feature similar quotes to those found on DirtFish or Autosport. This is because we’re part of the same interview pools at WRC events as journalists like Tom Howard or David Evans. It’s also worth mentioning that there have been many occasions when RallyJournal published an article first, and similar pieces later appeared elsewhere with the same quotes — which is completely normal in this field.

Regarding headlines, unfortunately, in today’s media landscape, we sometimes need to be creative with them to capture readers’ attention. This is particularly relevant for us, as we’re still a relatively small player on the international stage, working to establish our presence in the market. While we do this out of passion for the sport, it’s ultimately a business and our livelihood — if our articles don’t attract readers, they don’t generate revenue. The reality is that an article with a "plain" headline, which essentially reveals the entire story upfront, attracts far fewer readers than one with a more engaging headline.

That said, we’ve certainly crossed the line into overly dramatic headlines at times. We strive to ensure that the content of the article always delivers on the promise of the headline. We don’t want to disappoint our readers, as we’re creating content for them and aim to provide engaging stories.

We’re still in the early stages of our journey and refining our approach for an international audience. That’s why we’re grateful for all the feedback we receive.

Toni Heinonen / RallyJournal.com

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Driver opinions on the removal of hybrid. Most wanted to keep it despite it being unreliable...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-drivers-deliver-mixed-verdict-on-hybrid-decision/

[saco0o]

ott being ott with these: “I didn’t go too deep into it, to be honest. I don’t know about details and what was the background behind this decision, but in the end, if it’s like this, it’s like this". kimi raikkonen used to be like that too. i wish i were more like that in life, for everything haha

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No Qualifying next season is confirmed:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-road-order-rules-set-to-remain-unchanged-in-2025/10677453/

[Eli]

No Qualifying next season is confirmed:

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-road-order-rules-set-to-remain-unchanged-in-2025/10677453/

Just put a damn tarmac event after Finland, please.

[deephouse]

Just put a damn tarmac event after Finland, please.

It would be solved simply.

[Mary Mary]

This is slightly off-topic, but I’d like to take a moment to clarify a few things.

This, Toni, was one of the most classy replies I have read on the internet for a long time. Best wishes to you.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai i20 Rally2 gets major update for 2025. Hopefully it's much more competitive for WRC2 entrants...

https://rallyjournal.com/hyundais-rally-car-gets-a-major-update-naturally-theres-pressure/