WRC mainclass from 2027

[Steve Boyd]

does the new rules have something like "if you build a wrc27 car you gotta build at least 10"?
i remember reading something but I couldnt find the article again. probably from dirt fish?
so if toyota is building the new car, they gotta build 10 so others can buy, right? (if that rule exsit, no idea if im imagining things now)WRC 2025 Sporting Regulations art. 17.4.1 says a manufacturer cannot use more than 9 chassis in a season, so why should they be required to build at least 10?

[WRCStan]

WRC 2025 Sporting Regulations art. 17.4.1 says a manufacturer cannot use more than 9 chassis in a season, so why should they be required to build at least 10?

Creating the supply.


The homologation conditions for WRC27-type cars mandate the production of at least ten units within twenty-four months of the homologation date. Constructors must also be capable of supplying at least ten race-ready WRC27-type cars per calendar year to customers.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

"Constructor" is the same title given to F1 teams. But rally cars are cars, not single-seater racing machines.

They need to represent a road car to have any relevance to the public and fans.The idea of tuners fitting panels to look like a road car without that cars Manufacturer being the constructor makes no sense. Surely the Manufacturer has to come first and then have the tuner build and run the car for them.

[wyler]

WRC 2025 Sporting Regulations art. 17.4.1 says a manufacturer cannot use more than 9 chassis in a season, so why should they be required to build at least 10?

it's 10 in 2 years.

[wyler]

Going to Rally Journal (https://rallyjournal.com/major-revelation-from-toyota-boss-core-principles-of-2027-regulations-already-agreed/) in August, Tom Fowler said:

“What I understand is there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship. If you want to commit, you follow that chapter – all the information is clearly written down,” Fowler explained. “There’s also an appendix that says if a manufacturer or tuner has a different requirement – for a production engine, electrification, or similar – they can present it to the FIA.

But then Cyril said Hyundai needed a production engine they don't have.


:confused:

i think this is about technology. they have rules for ice, they are open to discuss other types. probably hiunday hasn't a suitable ice.

[Kenneth]

Did Cyril forgot that they have Rally2 car, which indeed have an engine?

[deephouse]

Cyril is a joke, remember that. As long as he will be in the team, the team will be one leg and ahalf out of the sport.

[denkimi]

"Constructor" is the same title given to F1 teams. But rally cars are cars, not single-seater racing machines.

They need to represent a road car to have any relevance to the public and fans.The idea of tuners fitting panels to look like a road car without that cars Manufacturer being the constructor makes no sense. Surely the Manufacturer has to come first and then have the tuner build and run the car for them.
Why do they need to represent a road car? Why do they need to be relevant to the public?
If prodrive or M-sport wants to build a car under their own name, why should they not be allowed?

[focus206]

The idea of tuners fitting panels to look like a road car without that cars Manufacturer being the constructor makes no sense.

Or worse: tuner fitting panels on a frame, to make a "rally car" that doesn't even aesthetically resemble a road car. I hope that can't happen. I don't think it would go down well with many fans, if you take away even the bare minimum resemblance with a road car.

[deephouse]

Why do they need to represent a road car? Why do they need to be relevant to the public?
If prodrive or M-sport wants to build a car under their own name, why should they not be allowed?

Because the cars needs to be in accordance with regulations and laws for road use, since they also drive on public roads. Especially Europe have so strict rules that crews often gets some ban or high penalties on road sections... But I think that is because the cars needs to be homologated and it's easier and way cheaper - each part needs to be homologated, and some of those are very crucial for road safety, that means manufacturer use some easier ways to get things through laws.

Also as a fan, I do like the idea, that the rally car should be road revelant. I like the idea, that the car should look like it's pretty much normal, just like that on the road, but underneath it does hide it's real beast and of course tackle ever possible scenario, terrain, weather & condition. That's a recipe for sunday racing and monday selling. It worked before and could work again. Those big expensive spoilers belong on track. Having excuse it's all because just for safety reasons, it's stupid, because the latest deadly crash happen directly in too expensive space-frame non-sense (and of course even a expert fan doesn't even notice difference).

I believe they want to get something from past that's worked, combined with something from present and be open for future. I just hope that whoever will (again big IF), build this new car will not look like some sort of space-ship or kid drawing his first car.

[Kenneth]

Because the cars needs to be in accordance with regulations and laws for road use, since they also drive on public roads. Especially Europe have so strict rules that crews often gets some ban or high penalties on road sections... But I think that is because the cars needs to be homologated and it's easier and way cheaper - each part needs to be homologated, and some of those are very crucial for road safety, that means manufacturer use some easier ways to get things through laws.

That doesn't really make sense. It's FIA who homologates rally cars and part of the homologation is the cars will be able to drive on public roads. It doesn't matter if it's space frame car or Rally5.


Also as a fan, I do like the idea, that the rally car should be road revelant.

I will again argue with Dakar. The space frame cars looks nothing like the road cars they share name with. And fans doesn't care, they just see a Hilux winning, they don't car it has nothing to do with a Hilux they have at home. There are even prototypes that don't even resemble any road car like Audi or Dacia. There are some branded private project too, like Martin Prokop's old Raptor RS or this year there is VW Amarok. This should be available to do with WRC27 too (if FIA didn't change it yet), and make sense if the team/driver have a partnership with a local branch or a dealer.

And then, there are privateer's cars like Century, MD Optimus, Red Lined, or these Chinese projects, that are acting as their own brands. Sure, some people can argue that it would be better if they were branded by some automaker, by why would they do that, when they have no connection to them? I don't care if they look like cars I can see on road or not, better competition is much more important.

Also doing this can show that the privateer company is good and at a chance from some manufacturer, just as it happened in Dakar with Prodrive and Dacia.


Having excuse it's all because just for safety reasons, it's stupid, because the latest deadly crash happen directly in too expensive space-frame non-sense

This just doesn't work as argument, at all. If you talk abou Breen, that was purely unlucky, it would end the same in every car. The safety cell that is in the use is designed mainly to improve in front impact and side impact.

Also unfortunately, Breen's crash wasn't the "latest deadly crash". There are multiple deadly crashes every year. And these also happens in Rally2s and Rally4s, not just in some older group a cars.

[focus206]

I will again argue with Dakar. The space frame cars looks nothing like the road cars they share name with. And fans doesn't care, they just see a Hilux winning, they don't car it has nothing to do with a Hilux they have at home. There are even prototypes that don't even resemble any road car like Audi or Dacia. There are some branded private project too, like Martin Prokop's old Raptor RS or this year there is VW Amarok. This should be available to do with WRC27 too (if FIA didn't change it yet), and make sense if the team/driver have a partnership with a local branch or a dealer.

And then, there are privateer's cars like Century, MD Optimus, Red Lined, or these Chinese projects, that are acting as their own brands. Sure, some people can argue that it would be better if they were branded by some automaker, by why would they do that, when they have no connection to them? I don't care if they look like cars I can see on road or not, better competition is much more important.

Also doing this can show that the privateer company is good and at a chance from some manufacturer, just as it happened in Dakar with Prodrive and Dacia.


Dakar has always been like that, since the first edition in 1979. Buggies, protos, cars that are named the same as the road version but only barely resembled them (Citroen ZX Grand Raid, Mitsubishi Pajero T3), they're part of Dakar. And by the way, I did read comments praising the Hilux as a "real" car compared to the Dacia or Audi buggies. We do know the Dakar Hilux has probably more in common with the Dacia Sandrider than with the road going Hilux, but many more casual fans don't. Just like the Pajero is remembered as this legendary Dakar competitor, the Schlesser buggy not that much.

You're saying WRC, that never had these, should start adopting them. I don't agree, to me it's a step too far outside WRC's nature. And in my opinion many fans won't like seeing Prodrive vs BRR vs X-Raid vs Abt protos in WRC...

[WRCStan]

That doesn't really make sense. It's FIA who homologates rally cars and part of the homologation is the cars will be able to drive on public roads. It doesn't matter if it's space frame car or Rally5.

FIA homologation doesn't make a car road-legal, it only makes it FIA-legal.

[WRCStan]

probably hiunday hasn't a suitable ice.

Then Hyundai can build a suitable ICE by following the specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship and all the information is clearly written down. No production engine required, according to Tom Fowler.

Tom has a WRC2027 project in his hands and TGR have committed to the series, and Toyota don't flip-flop on strategies globally, they're solid. And then there is Cyril, HMSG and Hyundai. I know who I choose to believe.

[wyler]

Then Hyundai can build a suitable ICE by following the specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship and all the information is clearly written down. No production engine required, according to Tom Fowler.

Tom has a WRC2027 project in his hands and TGR have committed to the series, and Toyota don't flip-flop on strategies globally, they're solid. And then there is Cyril, HMSG and Hyundai. I know who I choose to believe.

i think you misread what Fowler said. The fact that there are chapter of rules regarding the engine, dosn't mean you can build it out of nowhere. ice engine for 27 is based on rally2 engine, allowing a bit of flexibility for exploring production-based alternatives. (like skoda's rally2 engine is 1.6 derived from 2.0 production model)

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G75GxcCXgAAM7j3?format=jpg&name=medium

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota has the GR Yaris road car. They made this into the GR Yaris Rally2. A great car for everyone that is good for years ahead.

Now they are having to make a spaceframe version of a Toyota due to the WRC2027 Regs.

This sums up the absurdity of the future idea of WRC.

[Kenneth]

They don't have to make one. They want to make it.

Idk why people still didn't get that these rules are made to replace Rally2 in long term while co-existing with them in a short term. It's there to allow manufacturers without eligiable base car (which almost all of them have Rally2 car now) and to allow private projects to be homologated, so there will be no more Corsa R5 or Mitsubishi R5 cases.

Still would be better to also allow to build the car on road-car chassis, but there are still Rally2s and there isn't any info of a plans to scrap them.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They don't have to make one. They want to make it.
.

Ok but only because they can afford it and are the leading rally team, bar none. And their Rally2 is still the top car in the Class and latest (not counting Lancia).

If they said no, we'll continue with our Rally2 car, where would the new Regs be ?

[WRCStan]

i think you misread what Fowler said. The fact that there are chapter of rules regarding the engine, dosn't mean you can build it out of nowhere. ice engine for 27 is based on rally2 engine, allowing a bit of flexibility for exploring production-based alternatives. (like skoda's rally2 engine is 1.6 derived from 2.0 production model)

It's plain English to me, I don't think I misread it. It might no longer be true or changed, I don't know.

“there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship”

But there's no reason why there's a guide on 'how to build a production engine for the championship' if the rules are for using a production engine common to Rally2 that belong in Group A surely? All you need in the WRC2027 regs is a simple statement - "use an engine homologated in Group A".

Maybe it's the specs of 'the Rally2 engine as basis' as we quite often read, so might be able to be built in the small volumes. That's the key point, not the specs.

[WRCStan]

If they said no, we'll continue with our Rally2 car, where would the new Regs be ?

Still going ahead. The new regs are to steer the entire sport away from production car manufacturers altogether.

Watch this question and answer. https://youtu.be/I6-oOz8aDxE?t=4779

"The reason you can't carry on with [Rally2] is because the manufacturers aren't making those cars anymore. The homologations will run out and nobody's making those cars. So you must go to a spaceframe - you'll be surprised at how cheap those will be if we do them in big production volumes and they won't cost a lot of money" - David Richards.

[wyler]

It's plain English to me, I don't think I misread it. It might no longer be true or changed, I don't know.

“there’s a specific chapter that tells you how to build an engine for the championship”

But there's no reason why there's a guide on 'how to build a production engine for the championship' if the rules are for using a production engine common to Rally2 that belong in Group A surely? All you need in the WRC2027 regs is a simple statement - "use an engine homologated in Group A".

Maybe it's the specs of 'the Rally2 engine as basis' as we quite often read, so might be able to be built in the small volumes. That's the key point, not the specs.

again... "how to build an engine for the championship" doesn't mean you can build it from scratch or that is entirely new. it's not. there are rules on how to build it, and those rules -even for 27- point to existing specs and production related piece. that's it. of course they have to write it in the paper. no way a tech regulation can write "look at the previous one". they have to state all the things.

to further clarify, this is from dirtfish:
Engine
The engine will run at Rally2 specification, generating 300bhp. There is some discussion of another engine alternative, with Mestelan saying: “For the Rally2 engine, it’s already decided, this is already validated by the World [Motor Sport] Council, this is one option. There is also discussion to introduce a production-based engine based on production cars. It has to be refined with our manufacturers to know if we will validate this concept or not in addition to the current one. The aim here is to achieve power at a lower cost. [...]


source: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-wrc-2027-so-far/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Still going ahead. The new regs are to steer the entire sport away from production car manufacturers altogether.

Watch this question and answer. https://youtu.be/I6-oOz8aDxE?t=4779

"The reason you can't carry on with [Rally2] is because the manufacturers aren't making those cars anymore. The homologations will run out and nobody's making those cars. So you must go to a spaceframe - you'll be surprised at how cheap those will be if we do them in big production volumes and they won't cost a lot of money" - David Richards.

Really ? Hyundai now confirm theyll likely build a new i20 Rally2 for 2027 ...

Benoit Nogier, customer racing manager, told DirtFish: “We can re-homologate a complete car based on the current street car. We have now this opportunity and we still want to improve the car, we still want to move forward, even if it’s not confirmed at 100%, we will probably launch the development of big evolutions ready for 2027."

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-aiming-to-homologate-brand-new-rally2-car-for-2027/

[deephouse]

Based on that article i20 Rally2 is a great car on tarmac. How the hell they did so wrong with their top car this year?

[wyler]

Based on that article i20 Rally2 is a great car on tarmac. How the hell they did so wrong with their top car this year?

chassis?

[WRCStan]

again...

There's no FIA source I can find directly saying they have to come from production runs nor be already homologated Rally2. All the language is 'base' and 'basis' as in tech spec and power-level philosophy. Until this is made clear I'll remain open to the possibility I can build 10 engines to Rally2 tech specs in my shed.

There's also the possibility that what goes for 2027/2028 isn't the long term. Because moving away from relying on manufacturers building cars to relying on manufacturer to power the new cars makes 0 sense.

[WRCStan]

Really ? Hyundai now confirm theyll likely build a new i20 Rally2 for 2027 ...

Benoit Nogier, customer racing manager, told DirtFish: “We can re-homologate a complete car based on the current street car. We have now this opportunity and we still want to improve the car, we still want to move forward, even if it’s not confirmed at 100%, we will probably launch the development of big evolutions ready for 2027."

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-aiming-to-homologate-brand-new-rally2-car-for-2027/

DR's point is the i20 N went out of production a few years ago. They can and probably will extend the homologation, but that is hardly a boon for WRC unless it becomes a historic championship.

[doubled1978]

The rumours of the EU kicking the switch to EV’s into the long grass and also some noise about smaller cars like the i20 being able to be sold without all the ADAS systems to keep the prices sensible, may actually be of benefit to the WRC as manufactures will hopefully again have suitable cars to promote. It’s all if’s, but’s and maybe’s until anything gets officially announced, but if those things come to pass, it could be good rallying.

[deephouse]

Suitable cars? There will all be suitable from 2027 forward. No excuses from brands about ''body shape''. As history proves, every shape did somehow work at some point (there were Lancers, 037's, Mini...). And somehow I have a feeling that everyone will still use this B segment cars, as this is proven currently the best... Except everyone will build SUV's (which I wouldn't be surprised at all).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

DR's point is the i20 N went out of production a few years ago. They can and probably will extend the homologation, but that is hardly a boon for WRC unless it becomes a historic championship.

The N may have gone (still on sale in Australasia ?) but the i20 is still on sale.

And if the spaceframe is so cheap and easy, Hyundai still dont build one due to:

"...the big number that we all need to really pay attention to, it is the running cost. It’s maybe OK to build a car for €345,000 euros, but maybe on those €345,000 cars, if a door costs €10,000, this is not acceptable in the customer world. And this is really what we need to pay attention to. What will be the price for the dampers? For the under-protection of the car? We consume all those parts quite a lot on Rally2. And we have to be cost efficient."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

DR's point is the i20 N went out of production a few years ago. They can and probably will extend the homologation, but that is hardly a boon for WRC unless it becomes a historic championship.

The i20N N may have gone off sale in Europe but its still on sale in Australasia.

And if the spaceframe is so cheap and easy, Hyundai still dont build one due to:

"...the running cost. It’s maybe OK to build a car for €345,000 euros, but maybe on those €345,000 cars, if a door costs €10,000, this is not acceptable in the customer world. And this is really what we need to pay attention to. What will be the price for the dampers? For the under-protection of the car? We consume all those parts quite a lot on Rally2. And we have to be cost efficient."

[WRCStan]

The i20N N may have gone off sale in Europe but its still on sale in Australasia.

Ok thanks.

[Steve Boyd]

There's no FIA source I can find directly
That's the problem with all of this. It's all "he said that she said that somebody in the next street heard that ......"

We're relying on sports journo's with no technical background relaying what the FIA publicity people say. The actual technical regulations are often hidden from us because they're in things like homologation application forms that are only available to manufacturers. Without direct sight of those rules it's all guesswork - and pretty annoying!

[OldF]

TThe actual technical regulations are often hidden from us because they're in things like homologation application forms that are only available to manufacturers. Without direct sight of those rules it's all guesswork - and pretty annoying!

It is (annoying). The only public regulations are the specific regulations but they do not include much technical details, mainly instructions for the user of the car which parts of the car has been homologated for rally use, how an original part can be modified etc.

Anyway, here is what the regulations said for 2011. In 2011 the idea was to use the same basic car for both regional and wrc rallies, but the car was too expensive for regional rallies.

2011 HOMOLOGATION REGULATIONS FOR SUPER 2000 KIT-VARIANT (RALLIES) / WRC
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:a6b2c3ee-12ce-4480-8436-2654d73f06f0

7.1 The following parts may be homologated in the Super 2000 Rally Kit Variant (VK-S2000-Rally) under the following conditions: PAGE 4 (7.1.1 Engine pages 5-11)
This part is probably when using a production engine.

7.3 Only for a WRC Type car, the following parts may be homologated: PAGES 18-19
These are the parts that only WRC cars can use.

APPENDIX: ENGINE, PAGES 33-39
Global Race Engine.

Here is the M-Sport Ford Fiesta regional rally car (RRC). Regional rally cars were not an official name for the car but used by M-Sport. Note that it had a 30 mm restrictor compared to the 33 mm restrictor for the WRC version.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:EU:9da14ecb-2080-4b06-8ce4-ce9bf672ab46

[Kenneth]

The i20N N may have gone off sale in Europe but its still on sale in Australasia.

And if the spaceframe is so cheap and easy, Hyundai still dont build one due to:

"...the running cost. It’s maybe OK to build a car for €345,000 euros, but maybe on those €345,000 cars, if a door costs €10,000, this is not acceptable in the customer world. And this is really what we need to pay attention to. What will be the price for the dampers? For the under-protection of the car? We consume all those parts quite a lot on Rally2. And we have to be cost efficient."

lmao idk if Hyundai is just trying to be stupid or what. They don't know how much dampers and under-protection cost in their Rally2? They don't know the doors cost on their cars? Because the costs for these things will be pretty much the same.

It's the same stupid act as when Cyril said that they don't have an engine when they have one in Rally2.

They could just straight say that instead of developing new space frame car, they want to continue with Rally2, because that car is close to being really fast, instead of all these non-reasons why they cannot build WRC27, which are borderline embarasing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Maybe. But Benoit Nogier is the customer racing manager and he sees a better business case for upgrading / re-homologaing the Rally2 car than building a WRC27. New and existing i20 owners can both buy and upgrade cars bring in money.

Plus Lancia already has 30 order for their new Rally2 car, probably because Rally2 is a proven concept.

[OldF]

By the words of Christian Loriaux in this article 20.12.2024 https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loriaux-warns-2027-wrc-regulations-are-already-too-late/ both current rally2 engines and current rally1 engine are not options for wrc27 cars because of the Euro 7 emissions regulations.

“…. highlighting that making current Rally2 engines the basis of 2027 regulations was not an option long-term.”

“The 2027 regulations concept leans on road-going production engines, instead of the purpose-built race engines that have featured since the start of the last World Rally Car regulation cycle in 2017. That will make such engines beholden to Euro 7 emissions regulations once they are rolled out. All new consumer vehicles with fewer than eight seats built after November 29, 2027, must be Euro 7 compliant.”

The so-called global race engine (GRE) has been used in WRC cars from the beginning of 2011. It is hard to believe that similar “RALLY2 GRE” would not be used from 2027 onwards. This engine will be in use for 10 years and the manufacturers and tuners (constructors in the future) do not have to care what engines are manufactured and used in road cars.

[WRCStan]

Maybe. But Benoit Nogier is the customer racing manager and he sees a better business case for upgrading / re-homologaing the Rally2 car than building a WRC27. New and existing i20 owners can both buy and upgrade cars bring in money.

Even I can see that, as there's no obligation to enter WRC and do all the rallies. FIA are looking for more WRC manufs/constructor/team entrants, so it's obvious what they will have to do to Rally2. Long term it won't be the better business case.

[deephouse]

lmao idk if Hyundai is just trying to be stupid or what. They don't know how much dampers and under-protection cost in their Rally2? They don't know the doors cost on their cars? Because the costs for these things will be pretty much the same.

It's the same stupid act as when Cyril said that they don't have an engine when they have one in Rally2.

They could just straight say that instead of developing new space frame car, they want to continue with Rally2, because that car is close to being really fast, instead of all these non-reasons why they cannot build WRC27, which are borderline embarasing.

Is he the worst boss in history of WRC? What did he achieve in Caterham and Renault? And how the hell he did get the job at the top of one of the biggest WRC teams?

[Kenneth]

Maybe. But Benoit Nogier is the customer racing manager and he sees a better business case for upgrading / re-homologaing the Rally2 car than building a WRC27. New and existing i20 owners can both buy and upgrade cars bring in money.

Plus Lancia already has 30 order for their new Rally2 car, probably because Rally2 is a proven concept.

Yeah imo making upgraded Rally2 makes perfect sense for Hyundai, they made a good progress with it, and given how bad their newly developed cars usually are, continuing on developing it is just a no-brainer.

It's just their media statements that are embarrassing. Always acts like "I'm just a car, I don't know anything, everything is just against us :'("

[Sulland]

€345 000 for a new 26 Rally1 is less than a new Rally2, not sure for all brands, but for some.

Lets give the new class a chance, but knowing the engineers capabilities, maybe FIA went 1 step too far, and made it even simpler.
I would have liked the minimum length size to go from polo to golf size, so minimum 4300 mm. This would improve safety inside the car, and male them less nervous to drive.

[deephouse]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million. Lancia said it loud. It does not make any point spending so much if you have similar and way cheaper car to build. Why would anyone else bother? I mean tuners and potentially new teams. Toyota of course would build the car even if it would costs 500 million, so I don't count them. But I too don't see a point in all those non-sense. At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?

[TypeR]

Rally2 cars have gone up by a loot.

Tanak's team selling one fully rebuilt/but still used Yaris rslly2 for 370k..

Looks very nice, but that price is heavyy :D

[jcevc]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million. Lancia said it loud. It does not make any point spending so much if you have similar and way cheaper car to build. Why would anyone else bother? I mean tuners and potentially new teams. Toyota of course would build the car even if it would costs 500 million, so I don't count them. But I too don't see a point in all those non-sense. At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?

FIA price cap is one of the biggest scams ever ;)
no one respecting this, Skoda and Toyota are far over 300.000€, already on the level of this so called 2027 Rally1.

[Kenneth]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million.

Why would the developement be 20 milion lol... I doubt it will cost more than Rally2 to develop it, the parts are more or less the same, except with WRC27 they don't have to worry about the limitations of the base chassis.. Only downside is the cost of FIA chassis vs road car chassis, but that probably won't matter that much when they'll be produced in higher numbers.

[deephouse]

Believe me, it will cost way more as it is capped at. That's why no one stand in line for those cars and everyone stands in line for Rally2 cars. I don't like it either, but the reality sucks. FIA (again) fucked up (I'm not sorry for bad words) for their (too) late decisions. It's not anymore excuse about "new promotor" because there isn't decided on that yet. It's them, and only them. I think that those who sits at the oval tables never actually saw the sport and have bunch of papers with numbers infront of them thinking they are doing great, and of course get fat paychecks for nothing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Does anyone know how big a difference there is between the Rally1 Car spaceframe and the proposed new WRC27 spaceframe ?

I just wondered if Hyundai and MSport could use their Rally 1 spaceframe and switch to Rally2-spec components ?

[Sulland]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million. Lancia said it loud. It does not make any point spending so much if you have similar and way cheaper car to build. Why would anyone else bother? I mean tuners and potentially new teams. Toyota of course would build the car even if it would costs 500 million, so I don't count them. But I too don't see a point in all those non-sense. At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?


Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

[jcevc]

Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

Because you can use it tomorrow on the rally, for new one from TGR you will wait at least few months (I don`t know exact lead times for differenta rally2 cars at the moment - but situation was the same when new Skoda came, lead times were more than one year - for sure if your are not important team or have very good connections).

[FUNKYXXXXX]

Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

Rally2 cars costs 250.000 without VAT and without transformation kit (from tarmac to gravel and vice versa) plus set of tools for gearbox, diffs and some optional parts. (hydraulic jack, etc.)
You can get it faster without waiting for a new build, but the owner requests a lot.

[PLuto]

Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/

And of course it's a question of supply and demand. They are trying to sell it for this price and maybe they will find someone who will pay for it...

[OldF]

[QUOTE=Sulland;1371357]Why is this one so Expensive?

https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/ [/QUOTE (https://rallycarsforsale.net/ads/toyota-yaris-gr-rally2/%5b/QUOTE)]

RedGrey Team offers for sale tarmac or gravel spec Yaris Rally2 #030.
Full rebuild, regardless of cost. Lot of new parts. Chassis fully painted.

[OldF]

At the end everyone will follow that route (and Toyota might too) adopt Rally2 car and what do you think will happen if no one will run WRC27 car?

But the homologations of rally2 cars will expire at some point.

11.12.2024
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-teams-warn-2027-car-cost-cap-isnt-feasible/

“The current plan is for homologation of Rally2 cars to stop at the end of 2026, with the final year of Rally2 homologation validity ending in 2030, car dependent.”

[OldF]

Does anyone know how big a difference there is between the Rally1 Car spaceframe and the proposed new WRC27 spaceframe ?

I just wondered if Hyundai and MSport could use their Rally 1 spaceframe and switch to Rally2-spec components ?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-we-know-about-wrc-2027-so-far/

“Mestelan: “If you compare the current Rally 1 with the new WRC27, they will, in fact, be very similar [in shape and size] The main difference will be the height of the car. The new one will be 20 millimeters higher for the obvious safety advantage. But in terms of width and so on, it will be very similar. For the weight, both [WRC27 and Rally2] cars will be very similar.”

[Andre Oliveira]

Project Rally One, headed up by Yves Matton and Lionel Hansen, is the first new constructor to confirm its WRC 2027 entry

https://dirtfish-editorial.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/2025/12/IL20251217084455-WhatsApp-Image-2025-12-16-at-19.48.17-scaled-1600x500.jpeg

The World Rally Championship has its first confirmed ‘constructor’ for the 2027 season, with former Citroën team principal Yves Matton jointly heading the development of Project Rally One.

The announcement of the new car, which is intended to be ready for the start of the 2027 season, comes just one week on from the FIA World Motor Sport Council’s confirmation of a more inclusive constructor framework. In just over 12 months, the WRC will allow independent tuners to build and run cars alongside and against original equipment manufacturers in the race for the inaugural FIA WRC constructors’ crown.

Designed to the FIA’s all-new WRC27 regulations – which stipulate a tubular spaceframe safety cell, double wishbone suspension, four-wheel drive and a 1600cc turbocharged engine – the first Project Rally One chassis is complete with prototype assembly underway and the car’s first test set for spring next year.

Experienced motorsport engineer and co-founder of Project Rally One, Lionel Hansen, said: “The entry of Project Rally One to the FIA World Rally Championship is a hugely important moment for us. To be the first to present a new car for the WRC’s next era is something we are extremely proud of.

“The introduction of the WRC27 regulations gave us the opportunity to take the step into the championship. The new technical framework creates the right environment for independent projects like ours, allowing us to develop a car from the ground up and compete against manufacturers at the highest level.

“The progress we have already made gives us real confidence in the direction we are taking. With the chassis complete and the prototype now in assembly, we are in a strong position as we prepare for the first shakedown this spring and continue development towards the car’s debut.”

FIA sets out requirements for WRC27 constructors

The car, which will have to meet the regulated €345,000 cost cap, is being developed with a particular focus on suspension and geometry optimisation, weight distribution and reliability. Once homologated, it will retain that status for the next 10 years.

FIA deputy president for sport Malcolm Wilson said the new car demonstrated WRC27 regulations were succeeding in the stated aim of lowering the barrier to WRC entry for tuners to compete against manufacturers.

“The arrival of Project Rally One is a significant moment for the FIA World Rally Championship,” he said. “It confirms that the move toward a more cost-effective and accessible technical framework is already generating new engagement with the sport. Attracting new entrants is essential for the long-term growth of the WRC, and it is encouraging to see other tuners preparing to compete alongside manufacturers.”

Four years in the making, FIA chief technical and safety officer Xavier Mestelan Pinon said the new rules were delivering on president Mohammed Ben Sulayem’s promise.

Mestelan Pinon said: “The vision for WRC27 was first laid out when FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem called for a regulatory framework that would reduce costs, broaden participation and ensure long-term stability for the FIA World Rally Championship. Over the past four years, we have worked to develop a regulatory framework that places safety, affordability, flexibility and accessibility at its heart, creating a formula that is attractive to new entrants to the championship.

https://dirtfish-editorial.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/2025/12/FxxZer6b-Screenshot-2025-12-17-at-08.40.52-780x522.png

The first Project One chassis is complete with testing to begin in the spring

“The entry of Project Rally One to the FIA World Rally Championship is a clear indication that this vision is taking shape. By opening homologation to tuners and introducing a cost-effective long-term technical framework for the category, we have created an environment where tuners can enter the WRC on equal terms with manufacturers. Project Rally One illustrates exactly what this vision was designed to achieve, and it confirms that the new era of the FIA World Rally Championship is already beginning to deliver the growth and diversity the sport needs.”

WRC Promoter’s director of sport Peter Thul said the move demonstrated confidence in the series. He added: “The fact that this comes so soon on the back of the announcement of the WRC27 regulations confirms the appetite from the automotive world to be part of the pinnacle of rallying. It fills us with confidence that this will be just the first of many such announcements to come.

“We, as the promoter, are here to help Lionel [Hansen] and Yves [Matton] to reach their ambitions and we are certain that the mix of WRC27-homologated cars alongside the existing Rally2 cars will generate one of the deepest fields of competition in the WRC in recent memory.”

Ten of the new Project Rally One cars will need to be produced within 24 months of the homologation date, while Hansen and Matton must commit two cars to at least 50% of the WRC calendar in its first season of competition. From then on, at least 10 race-ready cars must be commercially available.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/new-constructor-project-rally-one-enters-wrc-2027/

[meh]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/new-constructor-project-rally-one-enters-wrc-2027/

Official one as well: https://www.wrc.com/en/news/project-rally-one-set-to-join-wrc-as-first-new-wrc27-constructor-from-2027

[GigiGalliNo1]

Interesting.

Will be nice to see this against the Toyota Celica WRCar (which yes, it's built and in testing) :D

[Sal yet again]

Looks like a buggy to me! I'm a great fan of off road racing in Europe like the Tout Terrain championship in France and this feels awfully like this is the way the WRC is heading with this new formula. Ironically I'd prefer the Rally 2 approach but looks like I'm in the minority!

Just been thinking that Colin McRae saw the future back in the early 2000s with the McRae R4, guess the FIA must have remembered that car also..

[typhoon]

The important thing is that another constructor is coming, then if a manufacturer wants to "sponsor" it with some millions, it will be easy to fix the bodywork to make it resemble a production car.

Also, for manufacturers not fully interested in committing the full necessary budget, it would be cheaper to team up with an existing tuner, cutting the R&D costs. Results are not that important, Skoda in the early 2000s invaded the Greek market just because they were around at Rally Acropolis (like, seriously, Fabia and Octavia were very common models to be seen around Greek cities).

[wyler]

Looks like a buggy to me! I'm a great fan of off road racing in Europe like the Tout Terrain championship in France and this feels awfully like this is the way the WRC is heading with this new formula. Ironically I'd prefer the Rally 2 approach but looks like I'm in the minority!

Just been thinking that Colin McRae saw the future back in the early 2000s with the McRae R4, guess the FIA must have remembered that car also..

looks like a porsche to some people around (also looking at the wall in the pictures...)

[wyler]

question: if a "tuner" has to use a "constructor" mechanical package, are they using toyota's wrc27? or can they use a rally2 package?

[Andre Oliveira]

looks like a porsche to some people around (also looking at the wall in the pictures...)

Pictures are of Porsche build that they sell: Porsche 992 Rally GT

[Kenneth]

question: if a "tuner" has to use a "constructor" mechanical package, are they using toyota's wrc27? or can they use a rally2 package?

FIA changed it and both tuner and manufacturer = constructor. So they just can develop it on their own.

[focus206]

Looks like a buggy to me! I'm a great fan of off road racing in Europe like the Tout Terrain championship in France and this feels awfully like this is the way the WRC is heading with this new formula. Ironically I'd prefer the Rally 2 approach but looks like I'm in the minority!

Just been thinking that Colin McRae saw the future back in the early 2000s with the McRae R4, guess the FIA must have remembered that car also..

I don't think you are in the minority among rally fans.
At least poor Colin planned to make some road version of the R4 to sell to the public...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Interesting.

Will be nice to see this against the Toyota Celica WRCar (which yes, it's built and in testing) :D

The rumoured new Celica is a low-slung sports coupe. A WRC27 version with the new (taller than Rally1) spaceframe ? Are you sure you dont mean Corolla ?

[Kenneth]

Rally2 car costs around 250,000, while development was 1-2 million... WRC27 will "cost" 345,000 and development will be??? 20 million.

So Mr. deephouse can you explain how the Project Rally One can enter WRC when the developement cost is 20 milion?

[wyler]

So Mr. deephouse can you explain how the Project Rally One can enter WRC when the developement cost is 20 milion?

i'm sure their dev cost will be nowhere near toyota's...

[GigiGalliNo1]

The rumoured new Celica is a low-slung sports coupe. A WRC27 version with the new (taller than Rally1) spaceframe ? Are you sure you dont mean Corolla ?

Seen it with my eye balls.

[WRCStan]

Project Rally One, headed up by Yves Matton and Lionel Hansen, is the first new constructor to confirm its WRC 2027 entry

This is the most exciting and positive news I've heard from WRC world for a while. Best of luck to them.

[WRCStan]

Looks like a buggy to me!

Have you seen photos with bodywork?

[Sal yet again]

Have you seen photos with bodywork?

Dont need to! I love off road racing and in fact spent more time around NORC events last year than rallying and know what most base chassis look like. Check out the Lofthouse Freelander for example.

Been doing some more thinking since my original post and you know what I never thought twice at the time that most of the Group B cars bore little or no resemblance to machines in the manufacturer ranges. A RS200 minus its front and back bodywork wasnt too disimilar to the image of the Matton car. Its just that they were manufacturer teams and not like single seaters built by men in sheds.

Happy to review when more info and images become available.

[doubled1978]

Dont need to! I love off road racing and in fact spent more time around NORC events last year than rallying and know what most base chassis look like. Check out the Lofthouse Freelander for example.

Been doing some more thinking since my original post and you know what I never thought twice at the time that most of the Group B cars bore little or no resemblance to machines in the manufacturer ranges. A RS200 minus its front and back bodywork wasnt too disimilar to the image of the Matton car. Its just that they were manufacturer teams and not like single seaters built by men in sheds.

Happy to review when more info and images become available.

To be fair, the RS200 was built by Reliant, and that ‘factory’ could easily have been classed as a shed!

[Sal yet again]

True but we dont need to go back to those days!

[trykmann]

Group B tubular frames didn't look much different.

https://www.wrcwings.tech/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/chassis-by-lanciarally027com.jpg

https://www.racecarsdirect.com/content/UserImages/153746/936102.jpg?v=2

https://media.istockphoto.com/id/803712956/photo/peugeot-205-t16-group-b-rally-car.jpg?s=1024x1024&w=is&k=20&c=s03n70qDrUTKVl7uNP4qbQOXxkb_BMZqdxidlQGKJQk=

[WRCStan]

Check out the Lofthouse Freelander for example.

Not sure what you're calling a buggy. If it's cause it looks 'off-roady', fair enough.

Just had a quick look at those - look production rail chasses based to me. I ran the reg of this one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B83j_cYZ5KI), it checks out and even has a current MOT. Maybe they removed front and rear sub assemblies to do their own thing, don't know without more sources. Still a car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Porsche speculation, more info tonight ?!

https://rallyjournal.com/speculation-grows-around-new-wrc-entrant-could-porsche-be-involved/

[archie106]

I can definitely see the appeal for Porsche.
Assuming a significant amount of the funding is sourced elsewhere i.e. an MSport/Ford type team model, it could be a relatively low cost way for Porsche to remain competing in a world championship given their withdrawal from WEC.

[AndersX]

And they are not continuing in WEC. And they have struggles with EVs and profit, and image in general due to those no-personality--looking EVs. Plus talk on the street is that the first Tycan was not a good quality and its prices in the aftermarket are melting like a snow in the spring, thus very unhappy owners, etc etc.

Porsche needs to do smth to get back on track. Let us see, it would be a big gain for WRC if their brand somehow turns up in the context of 2027.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's early speculation about Porsche, but it would be a gamble for such a premium brand to show itself in WRC when there's such strong opposition from mainstream firms Toyota.

[Sal yet again]

Would be a massive change in Porsche's stance to be going rallying "officially". Ok so Prodrive ran the Group B cars but a "factory" backed programme competing against less than premium brands would never have flown back in the day.

[focus206]

Porsche are still in GT racing, which is their natural habitat. I don't see any works supported/sponsored program like Ford M-Sport happening, for the reasons you are all saying.
The only hope is that since Prospeed has always worked with Porsche in GT, they might get some "help" from national importer?

[Andre Oliveira]

FIA unveils WRC27 Rally1 concept set to define the next generation of rally machinery

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/news/main_image/heroshot.jpg?itok=E0n6sYr8

The Fédération Internationale de l’Automobile (FIA), the global governing body for motor sport and the federation for mobility organisations worldwide, has today revealed a first look at the car concept that will form the foundation of the FIA World Rally Championship from 2027.

First approved by the World Motor Sport Council in 2024 following extensive consultation with WRC stakeholders, the WRC27 regulations establish a framework designed to improve accessibility, flexibility and cost control at rallying’s elite level, while preserving the performance and spectacle that define the championship.

The WRC27 Rally1 concept provides the first visual representation of these principles, translating the regulatory framework into a clear vision for the future of the FIA World Rally Championship.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/4door_rentgen.jpg?itok=3QNEGaRp

A safety-led foundation

At the core of the WRC27 concept sits its tubular frame safety cell, building on the structure introduced with the 2022 Rally1 cars. Developed through extensive simulation, benchmarking and prototype crash testing, the new safety cell delivers high levels of occupant protection while reducing overall complexity and cost. Compared to previous generations, the structure offers significant improvements in intrusion reduction and energy absorption across frontal, side, roof and rear impact scenarios.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/4door_rend1_0.jpg?itok=OactZT9M

Flexible vehicle design

Surrounding the safety cell is a bodywork framework designed to prioritise flexibility. Rather than requiring cars to be derived from current production models, the WRC27 regulations define a reference volume within which all exterior panels must sit.

Within this volume, Constructors are free to develop a wide range of designs, from production-based designs to bespoke rally concepts. Aerodynamic devices on the new car have also been simplified to reduce development costs and technical complexity.

A Constructor future

The WRC27 regulations open the championship’s top category to a wider range of competitors by bringing both OEMs (Manufacturers) and Tuners under a single definition of Constructors.

In defining both entities as Constructors, the WRC27 regulations broaden the field and strengthen competition at the highest level.

Under the regulations, a Constructor is defined as the entity responsible for the design and construction of a WRC27 car, its presentation to the FIA for homologation, and the marketing of the car and its associated parts.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/4door_rend2.jpg?itok=zar7kYPG

Accessible performance

Accessible performance sits at the heart of the WRC27 package, with the target to reduce the performance delta that currently exists between the top-tier and second-tier of competition and make it easier for young drivers to reach the performance window without the need for extensive car-specific testing.

The cars will be powered by 1.6-litre turbocharged internal combustion engine producing around 290 horsepower, paired with a four-wheel-drive powertrain and a five-speed gearbox. The suspension is set out in a double wishbone configuration, with braking and steering systems derived from current Rally2 specifications, delivering a cost-effective, high-performance package suited to the unique demands of the FIA World Rally Championship.

The WRC27 car is built around a tubular frame chassis, defined within a vehicle footprint with a minimum length of 4100 mm, a maximum length of 4300 mm, a maximum width of 1875 mm, a minimum wheelbase of 2600 mm and a minimum height of 1270 mm, within which Constructors are free to create a wide range of designs.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/suv_rend1.jpg?itok=topvzAVR

A restructuring of the Rally Pyramid

As the FIA World Rally Championship enters its next regulatory cycle, WRC27 cars will compete alongside existing Rally2 machinery in the top category, bringing together a broad mix of competitive cars at the highest level of international rallying.

A future-ready powertrain platform

Powertrain flexibility sits at the core of the WRC27 philosophy. While the initial target configuration for the first years of the regulations cycle is a sustainably fuelled 1.6-litre turbocharged internal combustion engine, the framework allows for the future introduction of alternative powertrains.

Reducing the cost of competition

Reducing the cost of competing at rallying’s elite level has been a central objective of the WRC27 regulations. The price of a ready-to-compete car has been capped at €345,000 for a tarmac specification, representing a reduction of more than 50 per cent compared to the outgoing formula.

These savings are delivered through component cost specifications and improved durability, reducing both purchase and replacement costs over the course of a season. The regulations also target reductions in operating costs through limits on personnel, reduced logistical requirements, increased use of local facilities and enhanced data connectivity to support off-site engineering.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/2door_rend1.jpg?itok=wXXi63SQ

FIA President Mohammed Ben Sulayem said “The WRC27 regulations represent a pivotal moment for the FIA World Rally Championship. They establish a framework focused on cost control, sustainability and accessibility, while safeguarding the performance and technical challenge that define rallying at the highest level. The WRC27 Rally1 concept shows how these principles come together and set the direction for development of the next generation of rally machinery.”

FIA Deputy President for Sport, Malcolm Wilson, commented “Flexibility is a defining feature of the WRC27 regulations. The new Rally1 concepts that we have released have been designed to these specifications, demonstrating how that flexibility can be applied in practice. They highlight, for the first time, the range of technical solutions and vehicle concepts that can be developed within the framework, while still meeting the demands of top-level FIA World Rally Championship competition.”

Peter Thul, WRC Promoter Director of Sport, said: “We as the Promoter welcome the new regulations which put a major focus on affordability. We are absolutely confident this will lead to an increase in manufacturers and now, constructors, competing at the pinnacle of our sport. There has been a positive, open dialect from all parties throughout this process to date and we now need to continue to work together to ensure 2027 heralds in the greatest era of the WRC.”

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/2door_rend2.jpg?itok=RJJ0ws0V

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-unveils-wrc27-rally1-concept-set-define-next-generation-rally-machinery

[TypeR]

So Macan coupe it is.. kind of.

[saco0o]

what up with that logo? we kinda know wrc already have a new promoter that is still finalizing some things, right...?
will redbull still be the one in 2026 or the new guys are taking over from jan 1?

[WRCStan]

I look forward to hearing in commentary about the Project Rally One WRC27 Rally1 in 2027 WRC season.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HHmWMAAGrCC?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HGtXsAAvG_n?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HHZXYAEr7di?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HHEWcAA1U7k?format=jpg&name=large

Auto Trends Magazine

[giu canbera]

Good! The more the better! Dont care what it looks like. Want cheaper cars, more entries, more competition, more stories...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/news/main_image/heroshot.jpg

So the new WRC27 Cars will be called Rally1 but they'll be competing against the existing Rally2 Cars. That's not confusing at all ...

[WRCStan]

Nothing in these pressers or reports said 'production engine' or similar.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Currently, couldn't someone just come in with a Coupe car and make it a WRC25/26 spec?

What were the regulations when the Focus (Hatch), Xsara (Liftback), Subaru/Mitsu (Sedan) and Peugeot (Coupe) were around?

[Sal yet again]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/ara/toyota-develops-gr-corolla-rc2-for-ara/

Toyota have been busy.

[AndersX]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HHmWMAAGrCC?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HGtXsAAvG_n?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HHZXYAEr7di?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G8e2HHEWcAA1U7k?format=jpg&name=large

Auto Trends Magazine

Porsche dashboard in pictures. Also the front of the car under the cover in the first pic released looked like Porsche. Interesting, is it only for sampling?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Currently, couldn't someone just come in with a Coupe car and make it a WRC25/26 spec?

What were the regulations when the Focus (Hatch), Xsara (Liftback), Subaru/Mitsu (Sedan) and Peugeot (Coupe) were around?

The Rally1 Cars have common safety cell structures, centrally designed in partnership with the FIA, for safety reasons. A coupe wouldn't really work unless it was scaled up, which defeats the object of being lower than a normal car.

[flat_right]

what up with that logo? we kinda know wrc already have a new promoter that is still finalizing some things, right...?
will redbull still be the one in 2026 or the new guys are taking over from jan 1?

Per Dirtfish then: Commercial rights for the World Rally Championship are then expected to formally transfer to the winner of the tender on January 1, 2026, DirtFish understands.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-president-reveals-key-reason-for-wrc-promotion-tender/

[Kenneth]

The Rally1 Cars have common safety cell structures, centrally designed in partnership with the FIA, for safety reasons. A coupe wouldn't really work unless it was scaled up, which defeats the object of being lower than a normal car.

But minimum height is 1270mm, which is around the height of Porsche Cayman and a bit less than 992. Abarth 124 is 3-4 cm lower and Alpine is around 2 cm lower. Both BMW M2 and M4 are aroud 12cm higher. So that isn't really an issue.

EDIT: What seems like a bigger issue is imo that lenght of the car must be between 4100-4300 mm. Sure, SUVs, hatchback or even the M2 can be scalled down, but you can't really shorten Cayman by 10cm without looking a bit wierd.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But minimum height is 1270mm, which is around the height of Porsche Cayman and a bit less than 992. Abarth 124 is 3-4 cm lower and Alpine is around 2 cm lower. Both BMW M2 and M4 are aroud 12cm higher. So that isn't really an issue.

EDIT: What seems like a bigger issue is imo that lenght of the car must be between 4100-4300 mm. Sure, SUVs, hatchback or even the M2 can be scalled down, but you can't really shorten Cayman by 10cm without looking a bit wierd.

"Under these regulations entrants will also have the flexibility to accommodate various body types, ranging from saloons to hatchbacks, cross-overs and completely bespoke designs, that will fit over an already defined spaceframe chassis."

No mention or renders of a coupe /sports car

[Kenneth]

Just because coupes weren't mentioned it doesn't that they are not allowed. They fall into "completely bespoke designs" category.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yves Matton reposted this render...

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/styles/content_details/public/suv_rend1.jpg

[WRCStan]

I think F1 has never been based on production models, they're single seaters. Doesn't really matter if they're from a car manufacturer like Ferrari or from Williams, they're all single seaters.
Rallying, GT racing, touring car racing, are not supposed to be single seaters nor buggies or prototypes that don't even resemble a production car. It's like proposing that F1 should only make race cars that resemble road models, it's absurd, they're not meant to.

With the reference volumes and requirement for body work, and by looking at the concept renders above, don't they resemble 'road models' even if they are bespoke designs? Think of the fans in parts of the world who never saw a fiesta or Yaris, or Peugeot 307, they might be having the same complaint for years.

IMO there's so many new models, brands, model year facelifts and trim lines these days, that most members of the public could assume these to be production cars.

[giu canbera]

As far as I understood every entry will be required to be related to a manufacturer and a car model that exists on the roads, right? The general public will continue to look at these Safety Cell with Body Pannels that Toyota runs as "a Yaris" and think "Uh, that Yaris looks so Rad with that rear spoiler and that turbo noise when they brake". I think it doesnt matter if its an actual road model or a tube frame car. The general public dont care about that. I also imagine we dont care "for real" about that. Give us good competition, entries, great events and stories that we will be very satisfied. But thats just my opinion.

[focus206]

As far as I understood every entry will be required to be related to a manufacturer and a car model that exists on the roads, right?

No, they can if they want to, but they're not required to. That's my point, they want to get rid of even the minimal, loose tie to a car that exists on the market.

[focus206]

With the reference volumes and requirement for body work, and by looking at the concept renders above, don't they resemble 'road models' even if they are bespoke designs? Think of the fans in parts of the world who never saw a fiesta or Yaris, or Peugeot 307, they might be having the same complaint for years.

IMO there's so many new models, brands, model year facelifts and trim lines these days, that most members of the public could assume these to be production cars.

If they are bespoke design, it means they don't resemble any road model. Getting rid of even the tiny factor that linked Rally1 with production model is just insulting...
The non-European rally fans make up a tiny percentage of all rally fans, and I'd guess they probably know those models by other means, like videogames, Block gymkhana etc. They understand those are models from elsewhere in the world.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

There's been one before, the McRae R4...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/the-one-off-mcrae-rally-car-designed-for-pure-driving/

Would we be happy seeing bespoke cars like this in WRC ?

[focus206]

There's been one before, the McRae R4...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/the-one-off-mcrae-rally-car-designed-for-pure-driving/

Would we be happy seeing bespoke cars like this in WRC ?

Colin was planning for the R4 to be sold as road version too, in limited numbers. I'd be fine with that.

And it's not the only car in history to be "made up" for rallying. Few cars in France in the 70's, and I know there's Darrian in Britain and Ireland, which I don't think has produced any road version? But we're talking about national rallies and what, the 0.000001% of rally cars.

[deephouse]

They agree to that because WRC is in need for new entries. If there would be constant interest from various brands through cycles or eras, they wouldn't open the regs so much. Also I think there will not be that much weird design of cars or teams with those cars. Maybe one, but as soon as they would somehow get some deal with brand, the car will look like some road model.

[WRCStan]

If they are bespoke design, it means they don't resemble any road model. Getting rid of even the tiny factor that linked Rally1 with production model is just insulting...

I know they won't resemble a particular named existing production (road) model, but from a distance they'll fit the generally accepted shape and look of what a production model would be to somebody who has no idea or care for there are not 10,000 of them all around the globe. They won't look like buggies, spaceships or dragsters, in other words.

It's apparently not the shape, look or technical specs of these cars that bothers you, but that there aren't consumer production manufacturers involved. You say that's insulting, but it's commercial stuff reflecting the era we live in. It's a pivotal change but entirely necessary. If they didn't have to have done it, they wouldn't have done it. The only alternative is an amateur historics sport instead and no WRC at all.

[WRCStan]

They agree to that because WRC is in need for new entries. If there would be constant interest from various brands through cycles or eras, they wouldn't open the regs so much. Also I think there will not be that much weird design of cars or teams with those cars. Maybe one, but as soon as they would somehow get some deal with brand, the car will look like some road model.

Exactly, and with some positive imagination the sport could boom and some small time tuner could be the next cool production car brand. F1 wouldn't be where it is today if the garagistas hadn't made it cool, and some are now selling 'road cars'.

[focus206]

I know they won't resemble a particular named existing production (road) model, but from a distance they'll fit the generally accepted shape and look of what a production model would be to somebody who has no idea or care for there are not 10,000 of them all around the globe. They won't look like buggies, spaceships or dragsters, in other words.

They will look like the shape of a production model, then fans will ask "What is that car?" and the answer is "It's a Project Rally One Rally1, it's not based on any actual road model, you can't buy a road version and you can't find it anywhere else"... then look at the disappointment of the fans asking the question...
It's not surprising that most comments on the Project Rally One announcement and on the FIA regs are people speculating what models these new cars are going to be... Porsche, Subaru BRZ, Honda Civic Type-R etc.



It's apparently not the shape, look or technical specs of these cars that bothers you, but that there aren't consumer production manufacturers involved. You say that's insulting, but it's commercial stuff reflecting the era we live in. It's a pivotal change but entirely necessary. If they didn't have to have done it, they wouldn't have done it. The only alternative is an amateur historics sport instead and no WRC at all.

I'm all for cars like the Swedish Mitsubishi Mirage R5. In the Group A days, there were many Audi rally cars never used officially by Audi, but only privateers, or national importers: Coupé, 90, S2... This is a step too far.
Where is the red line? When are we going to say stop, it's not rallying anymore? What if in future they'll propose, because of commercial reasons and to boost entries, to allow SxS and motorbikes in WRC... or to have WRC rallies only inside circuits. I'm sure the vast majority of rally fans would hate that, that wouldn't be WRC anymore. Changing one of the core aspects of rallying/WRC to keep WRC alive is a contradiction. If WRC isn't sustainable anymore, I'd rather them to do a new discipline with these type of cars and scale down rallying to an ERC level, with privateers and semi works team.

[WRCStan]

They will look like the shape of a production model, then fans will ask "What is that car?" and the answer is "It's a Project Rally One Rally1, it's not based on any actual road model, you can't buy a road version and you can't find it anywhere else"... then look at the disappointment of the fans asking the question...
It's not surprising that most comments on the Project Rally One announcement and on the FIA regs are people speculating what models these new cars are going to be... Porsche, Subaru BRZ, Honda Civic Type-R etc.

They will look like the shape of a production model, then fans will ask "What is that car?" and the answer is "It's a Project Rally One Rally1"... then "OK thanks, I'm going to support that team because it's red and white and got cool drivers with Gen Z names like Lando. I follow him on Bik Bok"...

The middle aged people will learn they're getting old and will get used to it very quickly I'm sure. It's a big change. Older people will watch old videos on VHS and say "they look like real men there, not like these kids today".


I'm all for cars like the Swedish Mitsubishi Mirage R5. In the Group A days, there were many Audi rally cars never used officially by Audi, but only privateers, or national importers: Coupé, 90, S2... This is a step too far.
Where is the red line? When are we going to say stop, it's not rallying anymore? What if in future they'll propose, because of commercial reasons and to boost entries, to allow SxS and motorbikes in WRC... or to have WRC rallies only inside circuits. I'm sure the vast majority of rally fans would hate that, that wouldn't be WRC anymore. Changing one of the core aspects of rallying/WRC to keep WRC alive is a contradiction. If WRC isn't sustainable anymore, I'd rather them to do a new discipline with these type of cars and scale down rallying to an ERC level, with privateers and semi works team.

We need to live in our times and not compare to the incomparable and unachievable. There were no commercial rights or promoter in Group A amateur privateer days and no Rally car extensions to Group A. Where is the red line? Maybe you will realise now it was put there 30 years ago and has been moving closer to you ever since. You decide, it's personal to you, but I think you will still be watching in the future ;)

[Kenneth]

Lol this is worse slippery slope than I've ever seen at Twitter, lol. You are starting to look a bit crazy, focus206. Just because rallying will allow cars that don't look like any car sold there will be motorbikes and racing only inside circuits? Also SxS would be better for you, wouldn't they? Because you can buy Polaris RZR and drive it on the roads. And didn't WRC change one of the core aspects of rallying in 90s, when kit-car and WRCs were introduced, basically blocking any private tuners?

Did you forget that tuners CAN use bespoke design, not must use it? They also can use body shape of any other car. And I bet most of them will. They can find some funding from local importers, it's much better marketable for customers and it will be much more interesting for the fans. There ara lot ofof upsides.

One situation where using bespoke design makes more sense is if some tuner tries to get support from the brands so they use generic design to show their car is top level. Or when some big investor that isn't behind any car brand cames, like Bahrain did in Dakar.

Also again, 90% of rally fans don't even know that current Rally1s are also on the space frame. And those who knows don't really care. You can see that on instagram, where some cassay says that space frame will be end of rallying or successfully ignoring the fact that it's being already used. And the rest just care about what car it resembles.

[deephouse]

WRC is in state that we simply can't choose who will come and with what. Everything would be accepted. What do we say about Lancia. Sorry but in reality Lancia Ypsilon is ugly as shit but we are so happy they choose to recover their brand with entering into rallying again. Also Toyota is very ugly and Hyundai too. Only Puma does look like some beautiful made rally car by new standards, even if it's completely changed in dimensions of a real road car. Some of them will be ugly, some of them will look awesome, and some of them will not look like anything from showroom. When the WRC will boom with entries, then I think rules will be somehow strict again, but right now anyone which does bring more entries is welcome. Also I like the idea there is various segments of car, even if there would be Porsche in it, as long as there is good competition, worth watching it completely live (on site) and as long as many of us will be excited to follow every single event from start to the end.

[focus206]

They will look like the shape of a production model, then fans will ask "What is that car?" and the answer is "It's a Project Rally One Rally1"... then "OK thanks, I'm going to support that team because it's red and white and got cool drivers with Gen Z names like Lando. I follow him on Bik Bok"...

The middle aged people will learn they're getting old and will get used to it very quickly I'm sure. It's a big change. Older people will watch old videos on VHS and say "they look like real men there, not like these kids today".

I don't think that's what will happen. If someone, even younger, approaches the world of rallying, does so because they like cars, especially the ones that remind road cars models, as opposed to single seaters. Are they going to be enthusiastic about these made up protos? I don't think so. Just like nobody was excited about those Extreme E cars.




We need to live in our times and not compare to the incomparable and unachievable. There were no commercial rights or promoter in Group A amateur privateer days and no Rally car extensions to Group A. Where is the red line? Maybe you will realise now it was put there 30 years ago and has been moving closer to you ever since. You decide, it's personal to you, but I think you will still be watching in the future ;)

If we don't look at the world with a historical prespective and without the knowledge of the past, we're doomed to never understand the present, let alone build a future. In rallying terms, the line has been pushed and pushed and today we see they're getting rid of one of the core aspects (if not THE core aspect) of rallying.
No, I won't be watching a championship if it will be infested by these "things", many other championships and disciplines out there.

[focus206]

Lol this is worse slippery slope than I've ever seen at Twitter, lol. You are starting to look a bit crazy, focus206. Just because rallying will allow cars that don't look like any car sold there will be motorbikes and racing only inside circuits? Also SxS would be better for you, wouldn't they? Because you can buy Polaris RZR and drive it on the roads. And didn't WRC change one of the core aspects of rallying in 90s, when kit-car and WRCs were introduced, basically blocking any private tuners?

Those are examples of red lines that shouldn't be crossed, I don't think they will happen. But if one just accepts everything, who knows what the future can bring.
Absolutely, SxS fit the requirements more than these protos in terms of production - but they're SxS, not cars, so they don't qualify as WRC contenders in my book.



Did you forget that tuners CAN use bespoke design, not must use it? They also can use body shape of any other car. And I bet most of them will. They can find some funding from local importers, it's much better marketable for customers and it will be much more interesting for the fans. There ara lot ofof upsides.

Did you read the conversation? I literally said that few posts ago, when I answered to giu canbera. It's possible that Project Rally One's car will be similar to a Porsche model, I know. I don't like the "CAN" though, should be a requirement at the very least.



Also again, 90% of rally fans don't even know that current Rally1s are also on the space frame. And those who knows don't really care. You can see that on instagram, where some cassay says that space frame will be end of rallying or successfully ignoring the fact that it's being already used. And the rest just care about what car it resembles.

Yes, I see fans that care what car it resembles too. And I believe they'll be disappointed when/if they'll understand that some of these new protos are made up and won't resemble anything.

[WRCStan]

If we don't look at the world with a historical prespective and without the knowledge of the past, we're doomed to never understand the present, let alone build a future. In rallying terms, the line has been pushed and pushed and today we see they're getting rid of one of the core aspects (if not THE core aspect) of rallying.

I don't really know what your alternative to all this is but sorry, I don't think you do understand the present, or are being nostalgic.

What is the core aspect of rallying?

Driving as fast as you can wasn't the core aspect for the first 40-50 years of rallying. Modifying the cars was a big no. They couldn't remove any of the comforts that production touring cars had, there was no need to, and in many rallies all the seats had to be filled by passengers or ballast. Origins of production GTs and sportscars belong in road races, which as speed limits and laws came in were made into rallies with special stages. Maybe the red line was put in place when the touring cars were allowed to be modified, after everyone decided that racing on special stages was the more fun and entertaining way to go rallying. It was acceptable to manufacturers then. It's not now.

We've fallen out before over Ecorally, stately regularity rallies, there's your core aspect of rallying IMO. I'm not suggesting you should go to ecorally, but the consumer manufacturers would rather identify with sensible (woke) driving with winning technology (which is where F1 and WEC comes in) these days than the laddish boy racer look. That's a sign of our times. Win on Sunday sell on Monday in rallying is an absolute joke. Nobody even test drives anything anymore, they work out affordability with the monthly payments, then agree to a lease online what they can get from a brand they recognise and have a preconceived notion about, then the car gets delivered and then they don't drive it because they've only paid for so many miles. If it breaks, they tap the app and it gets picked up to be fixed, pr is swapped. It has traction control, reverse parks itself, lane guidances itself, crawls in traffic itself, holds the brakes itself, cruise controls itself, maps on the screen, games on the screen even, heats and demists from a phone app.... and I've not even touched self driving. Make driving 120mph sideways over a crest through a forest relatable to all that. I fully understand why it was relevant in the past, I can remember buying Max Power magazine and heading to the local retail park car park to do donuts in a car which we'd tinkered with ourselves because doom-scrolling hadn't bee invented then, but I can't really understand what or why WRC today or the future has to relate to production cars or modern motoring.

[WRCStan]

Those are examples of red lines that shouldn't be crossed, I don't think they will happen. But if one just accepts everything, who knows what the future can bring.
Absolutely, SxS fit the requirements more than these protos in terms of production - but they're SxS, not cars, so they don't qualify as WRC contenders in my book.

I agree SxS won't happen, it'll cronk too much with rally-raid which at world championship level has a different promotor.

Bikes on the other hand would be fantastic to see on tarmac. Imagine Canaries with bikes. Not with a co-rider riding pillion lol.

[focus206]

What is the core aspect of rallying?


If I'd have to say what's the #1 core aspect: using cars that are related to production models. Every other aspect, such as driving on regular everyday roads, comes after, in my opinion. Yes I know, today that's no longer possible at high level. Hence why I'm okay with just the bodyshell in common. I'm not a fan of spaceframe, but I can stomach it, at least the aesthetic will resemble the production model. That's the tiny bare minimum, and now not even that, if we get tuners that make their own designs...



but I can't really understand what or why WRC today or the future has to relate to production cars or modern motoring.


Because that's what rallying is! If one wants to start using protos that have 0% in common with production cars (as opposed to 1% for spaceframes and little more % for bodyshells), one should begin a new discipline or championship. Why take this away from rallying? 1% is already very little... why go to 0%?
If I had to say the #1 core aspect of hillclimb racing would be racing on a uphill road. It would be crazy to suggest hillclimb racing should start going downhill or on flat roads...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

All this talk of Tuners and their 2027-spec cars coming in to WRC is all very well, but how are they going to be competitive against the Manufacturer teams that enter ?

Where is the budget to test and develop the car coming from and to pay a top driver if they want their car to beat the likes of Toyota, Hyundai and even Lancia (Stellantis) ?

Otherwise the cars are just going to be for also-rans and the extra cars at the top level will be pointless.

[WRCStan]

Let me rephrase the question: what aspects of the ordinary motoring that you do are found in WRC?

Saying the bodyshell is tenuous, because even the shell is modified. The bodywork put on it is substituted, the inside trim that should be attached to it is missing, a safety cage is added because it's inadequate for the sport... etc etc.

"Why take this away from rallying? 1% is already very little... why go to 0%?"

Because letting 99% go to 100% and redefining the word is much better than clinging on to something that barely exists.

[WRCStan]

All this talk of Tuners and their 2027-spec cars coming in to WRC is all very well, but how are they going to be competitive against the Manufacturer teams that enter ?

Where is the budget to test and develop the car coming from and to pay a top driver if they want their car to beat the likes of Toyota, Hyundai and even Lancia (Stellantis) ?

Otherwise the cars are just going to be for also-rans and the extra cars at the top level will be pointless.

How is Rally2 or anything else different?

[Rallyper]

Isn´t 2027 something like Rally2 in old Group B format?

[skarderud]

I think wrc27 spaceframe is quite close to Gr.B actually, only diffence is the 200 roadcars they had to build then.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20251221/d711f2edb08afc528bdebbbc8d496e7f.jpg

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[RS]

All this talk of Tuners and their 2027-spec cars coming in to WRC is all very well, but how are they going to be competitive against the Manufacturer teams that enter ?

Where is the budget to test and develop the car coming from and to pay a top driver if they want their car to beat the likes of Toyota, Hyundai and even Lancia (Stellantis) ?

Otherwise the cars are just going to be for also-rans and the extra cars at the top level will be pointless.

This is something I wondered about too. I can only imagine they are hoping to sell enough cars to privateers to make it viable, or speculating some manufacturer with no internal motorsport department might pay them to change the bodywork and stick their badge on the bonnet.

At least these cars will be cheaper to develop and run than Rally1, otherwise I don’t see that this would be possible at all.

Is there going to be some new second tier class to replace Rally2 in the long run, based on proper cars? Or maybe some official FIA electric production car based class?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How is Rally2 or anything else different?

Because they're not the top Class, not competing with the big boys, which these 2027 Cars will be.

[Morte66]

A question for the technical people: can tuners who are not following a road car shape gain some speed advantage from that? Can they do better aero, or put the wheels nearer the corners, or keep fragile bits away from bumps in the road, or anything like that?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dont all Constructors have to sell these new cars (chassis) to anyone who wants one ? So wont everyone just buy the Toyota to get the best and not bother with some shed-built private one ?

[WRCStan]

IMG

I don't know what that is but it isn't WRC2027.

[WRCStan]

Dont all Constructors have to sell these new cars (chassis) to anyone who wants one ? So wont everyone just buy the Toyota to get the best and not bother with some shed-built private one ?

How is Rally2 or anything else different?

[Harry hairpin]

So in theory an independant tuner could turn up with a WRC27 car and a 1980's GpB lookalike body within reason without the 1980's wings. Or something that looks like a Lancia Stratos or Mk2 Escort.

[WRCStan]

So in theory an independant tuner could turn up with a WRC27 car and a 1980's GpB lookalike body within reason without the 1980's wings. Or something that looks like a Lancia Stratos or Mk2 Escort.

Not without hearing from Lancia or Ford legal department. So, no.

[saco0o]

what? i could swear i read that builders needed to have some kinda of manufacturer 'agreement' and that the body pannels needed to be more or less like an actual road car. i think NOT having to follow that is even better. i remember thinking "ahh but then they arent going to find manufacturers willing to autorize them to build cars". good news imo haha

[WRCStan]

what? i could swear i read that builders needed to have some kinda of manufacturer 'agreement' and that the body pannels needed to be more or less like an actual road car. i think NOT having to follow that is even better. i remember thinking "ahh but then they arent going to find manufacturers willing to autorize them to build cars". good news imo haha

There was talk of bodywork tuners having to associate with a WRC27 chassis manufacturer and this is when there was talk of production engines. That 'association' makes some sense because whatever the bodywork, the car underneath would legally be the chassis manufacturer's car and parts and servicing would obviously be associated with it.

But they replaced that with constructors and partial homologations and it seems the production engine requirement has gone. Which makes a lot more sense, Toyota are not going to be selling rolling chasses and allowing others to put their own designs onto what will always be a Toyota car - I think we can rule that out. It'll more likely be the Project Ones who do that, if they choose to, but if they still required a Project One chassis to have a production engine block they aren't solving the problem of being tied to unwilling production manufacturers. Getting those relationships, agreements and involvement between the tuners and engine suppliers is a pretty big obstruction to participation, it's just a dumb idea.

At no point did anyone's car have to look like a manufacturer's mass produced road car. It was always allowing bespoke designs that look like they belong to the 'road car genre' rather than looking like a crosskart, buggy, formula ford, pick up truck... Everything is looking good for the minute.

[Kenneth]

Dont all Constructors have to sell these new cars (chassis) to anyone who wants one ? So wont everyone just buy the Toyota to get the best and not bother with some shed-built private one ?

Yeah exactly. Is Toyota the fastest of the pack? So just buy it from them, because Toyota is required to sell them.

Also again, this is non-existent problem. How is someone with their own team able to compete against Toksport in WRC2? That's literaly the same thing.

[Kenneth]

Not without hearing from Lancia or Ford legal department. So, no.

Yeah no lmao. Did anyone making Rally2-kit heard anything from Skoda or Suzuki or Dacia legal department? Did Overdrive in Dakar heard anything from Toyota's legal department? Did anyone of the tens of tuners in UK heard from Ford's legal department because they build a car that shares only a chassis with Escort Mk2? No lol.

It's simply allowed to use design of brands. Idk if FIA have some kind of agreements with car makers, but that's not an issue of the tuners.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

How is Rally2 or anything else different?

The new cars will all be the same (maximum) price, Rally2 cars vary.

Plus they've been made with the Manufacturer, not from scratch by a private concern.

[WRCStan]

Yeah no lmao. Did anyone making Rally2-kit heard anything from Skoda or Suzuki or Dacia legal department? Did Overdrive in Dakar heard anything from Toyota's legal department? Did anyone of the tens of tuners in UK heard from Ford's legal department because they build a car that shares only a chassis with Escort Mk2? No lol.

No because those Rally2-kits were Skodas and Suzukis in paperwork. Overdrive are in collaboration with Toyota. Those Escort chasses are Ford chasses. If you rock up to WRC with a Kenneth WRC27 that looks like a Ford Escort lookalike and you didn't get Ford approval - you are breaking IP law. If you did get Ford approval, why didn't you just build a Ford instead of a Kenneth? Harry's question included the words independent and lookalike, suggesting no collaboration. You can't just put another makers name on your product that looks like theirs. Absolutely No and absolute poppycock that there's anything simple about skirting any of that.

[focus206]

"Why take this away from rallying? 1% is already very little... why go to 0%?"

Because letting 99% go to 100% and redefining the word is much better than clinging on to something that barely exists.

Yeah, I don't agree.
I say "We've come to 99%, that's enough, it's time to stop and at least keep the bare minimum of this core aspect of rallying"
You say "We've come to 99%, let's just go to 100% but still call it rallying"

I shudder to imagine what this sport will become if no one ever draws a line and accepts every change in the name of adapting to the times. Maybe not SxS and bikes, but maybe all similar looking Extreme E-like protos that nobody cares about...

[RS]

Is it officially the case that the engines will not have to be production based? That was one of the saving graces for me of this new class vs Rally1s.

[deephouse]

All this talk of Tuners and their 2027-spec cars coming in to WRC is all very well, but how are they going to be competitive against the Manufacturer teams that enter ?

Where is the budget to test and develop the car coming from and to pay a top driver if they want their car to beat the likes of Toyota, Hyundai and even Lancia (Stellantis) ?

Otherwise the cars are just going to be for also-rans and the extra cars at the top level will be pointless.

We saw that Puma isn't developed ''so well'' as i20 and Yaris, but we saw on occasions that the car is fast enough to challenge the big ones with the right driver. We can gladly say that M-Sport is a tuner, no need to praise Ford for their hard work. And sometimes it happens that tuner with way less budget can do better job than official manufacturer team. Of course the money helps a lot, but sometimes in a case of Hyundai we see that they simply can't figure it out how to do it. I mean with their budget they should be leveling Toyota, win more titles and not struggle every single time and then making excuses. Tuners sometimes have that passion, experience and the right way to produce the beast.

Maybe instead they capped the price of a car they should cap the price of the whole yearly budget, get good logistical deals, service parks being build the same for all and so on...

[WRCStan]

Is it officially the case that the engines will not have to be production based? That was one of the saving graces for me of this new class vs Rally1s.

No, it's gone silent. But consider that Project Rally One didn't announce an engine partner and all the language is about designing and developing cars from the ground up, and competing on an equal footing with the manufacturers with new regs that are accessible to many with the intention of encouraging entrants.

[WRCStan]

Yeah, I don't agree.
I say "We've come to 99%, that's enough, it's time to stop and at least keep the bare minimum of this core aspect of rallying"
You say "We've come to 99%, let's just go to 100% but still call it rallying"

I shudder to imagine what this sport will become if no one ever draws a line and accepts every change in the name of adapting to the times. Maybe not SxS and bikes, but maybe all similar looking Extreme E-like protos that nobody cares about...

The people doing the sport will decide it's fate not those who only comment. If SxSs and Extreme E buggies come to the fore than so be it, you can play tiddlywinks instead and yearn for yester year. But every time you mention buggies as a possibility it's a reminder that you're either not understanding the new regs or are hyperventilating on them because you don't like the actual change or evolution. I shudder at the thought of a world without change. Even in rally, 4wd was not found in production cars but they made it happen, turbos weren't widely found but they put them in, sequential gearboxes.... You'd have been there saying "hell no!"

[focus206]

The people doing the sport will decide it's fate not those who only comment. If SxSs and Extreme E buggies come to the fore than so be it, you can play tiddlywinks instead and yearn for yester year.

So be it? You just quietly accept everything? The 2024 point system was disliked by almost every fan (you and very very few others are the "almost"), it was changed for 2025 to an improved version. Obviously the input of drivers and teams played a part in it, I imagine.
But no, I will not just be quiet and accept what it's decided. I'd be ashamed if I did that for my country, and I won't do that for rallying. I can't practically do anything about it, but I value criticism more than I value quiet acceptance. It's not like I'll post in WRC 2027 rallies threads how much I dislike these concepts to spoil it for others, but I'll definitely criticize them when they're on topic.



But every time you mention buggies as a possibility it's a reminder that you're either not understanding the new regs or are hyperventilating on them because you don't like the actual change or evolution. I shudder at the thought of a world without change. Even in rally, 4wd was not found in production cars but they made it happen, turbos weren't widely found but they put them in, sequential gearboxes.... You'd have been there saying "hell no!"

I don't see much difference between these new made up cars and Extreme E protos in these terms. If current Rally1 are 1% as I said, both Extreme E and these new cars are 0%. No related production models, not even loosely. And maybe one day even manufacturers will also decide to enter Extreme E-like protos, or Dacia Sandrider-like stuff. You'll probably like that, but many won't...
Those changes you mentioned are peanuts to me, in comparison to 2027. I didn't say anything negative when the 2011 regs came up, nor the 2017 regs, nor the hybrid and not even when the spaceframes came up, even if I dislike them.

[WRCStan]

So be it? You just quietly accept everything?

No. If I don't like something I don't own or cannot change, I walk, I don't accept it or whinge. You don't have a better, viable idea than this which would count for constructive criticism, that just makes you a crybaby not valuable. The points system was in the power of the championship to change as they owned it. They can't force manufacturers to play their game. That's why alllllllll this is happening. I'm not sure you've understood that.


And maybe one day even manufacturers will also decide to enter Extreme E-like protos, or Dacia Sandrider-like stuff.

Except they don't fit the regs' dimensions or championship philosophy, and they clash with other FIA series', so it'll never happen. They're too big, the wheels are exposed and not in wheel arches, they're built for off-roading and not a road sport. Why keep yammering this because the FIA had to move away from series production manufacturers because those manufacturers don't want to play? It's needless fearmongering.

[PLuto]

Yeah no lmao. Did anyone making Rally2-kit heard anything from Skoda or Suzuki or Dacia legal department?

You will be surprised, but yes, they heard. And they didnt liked it (not all of them of course) and were fighting against it. Thats one of the reasons why this category was killed by FIA...

[Rallyper]

What about collision safety with only spaceframe and no real panels surrounding the bodyshell? Will the G-forces increase when hitting a firm object.

An ordinary bodyshell itself has zones mitigating g-forces, which I don´t really see a spaceframe has...

[focus206]

Except they don't fit the regs' dimensions or championship philosophy, and they clash with other FIA series', so it'll never happen. They're too big, the wheels are exposed and not in wheel arches, they're built for off-roading and not a road sport. Why keep yammering this because the FIA had to move away from series production manufacturers because those manufacturers don't want to play? It's needless fearmongering.

I said Extreme E-LIKE protos and Dacia Sandrider-LIKE stuff, telling me they can't use exactly the Extreme E protos or exactly the Dakar Dacia Sandrider has no meaning. It's obvious what I mean.
If manufacturers don't want to play they can leave and we can scale rallying down to ERC level. I'm not someone who cares for expanding to USA, India and wherever else to have a "true world championship". I don't care if the sport has to become more amateurish, at least it would still be rallying.

In any case, it's obvious that I have different values than you, so I don't know what you want from me. I'd much rather complain than walk, complaining means signaling a problem, without locating the problem there's never any fixing. I imagine all this is happening also because there has been complaints about low entries in the past years - it's just that I think the solution is worse than the problem. Maybe it won't bring anything, but I still did my part.

[WRCStan]

I said Extreme E-LIKE protos and Dacia Sandrider-LIKE stuff, telling me they can't use exactly the Extreme E protos or exactly the Dakar Dacia Sandrider has no meaning. It's obvious what I mean.

No it's not obvious. It makes no sense at all which is why I continued to quiz it.


In any case, it's obvious that I have different values than you, so I don't know what you want from me. I'd much rather complain than walk, complaining means signaling a problem, without locating the problem there's never any fixing. I imagine all this is happening also because there has been complaints about low entries in the past years - it's just that I think the solution is worse than the problem. Maybe it won't bring anything, but I still did my part.

I fully accept you have your position, I just want to understand the reasoning it's based on. With that understanding I can challenge my own position, learn something and maybe offer corrections to any misunderstandings. It's why I enjoy coming here, thanks for engaging.

[focus206]

No it's not obvious. It makes no sense at all which is why I continued to quiz it.


We've already talked about that. To sum it up: I don't like the possibility of tuners (and maybe manufacturers in the future, once the Pandora box is open) to create made up cars that have 0% resemblance with a production car model, as opposed to the bare minimum 1% resemblance that the current Rally1 cars have.
0% in resemblance is the same % Extreme E protos and Dacia Sandrider have with production car models. Yeah, no wonder they won't ever use exactly Extreme E protos or exactly Dakar vehicles for road rallying.

I think it's a step too far outside the spirit of rallying and one of its core aspects and I think the number of fans who won't like it will be big. All the changes of the past, such as less regularity aspect, four wheel drive, turbo, passage from Group A to WRC etc. are all small potatoes to me, in comparison with these 2027 regs.
One can use all the commercial or growth reasons for this decision as they want, but it makes no sense to me getting rid of one of the main aspects of rallying to... benefit rallying. I would never support transforming GT racing cars into prototypes, or hillclimbing into flat road courses, even if it brings more manufacturers or entries or whatever.

That's it really, I don't know what else is there to be said. I know you like these rules, I certainly don't, and some people out there are probably okay with having krosskarts in WRC.

[WRCStan]

We've already talked about that. To sum it up: I don't like the possibility of tuners (and maybe manufacturers in the future, once the Pandora box is open) to create made up cars that have 0% resemblance with a production car model, as opposed to the bare minimum 1% resemblance that the current Rally1 cars have.
0% in resemblance is the same % Extreme E protos and Dacia Sandrider have with production car models. Yeah, no wonder they won't ever use exactly Extreme E protos or exactly Dakar vehicles for road rallying.

Got it. 'Extreme-E like' could mean the vehicles used in it, the format of racing or driver gender balance or many other things than 'unique/bespoke designs'.

On another note, at least you see manufacturers are still entering even if they are on bespoke designs. That's a positive!

[denkimi]

We've already talked about that. To sum it up: I don't like the possibility of tuners (and maybe manufacturers in the future, once the Pandora box is open) to create made up cars that have 0% resemblance with a production car model, as opposed to the bare minimum 1% resemblance that the current Rally1 cars have.
It's no longer about what you, I or even the FIA wants.
It's about what we can get. It the big manufacturers aren't interested anymore, we can either have private tuners or no WRC championship at all.

Blame the EU with their stupid rules that pushed electric cars that nobody wanted.

[skarderud]

It's no longer about what you, I or even the FIA wants.
It's about what we can get. It the big manufacturers aren't interested anymore, we can either have private tuners or no WRC championship at all.

Blame the EU with their stupid rules that pushed electric cars that nobody wanted.In Norway 97% of new cars sales is electric, so its wrong nobody wants it.
But, most people dont care, they still buy teslas in norway...

In rest of the world, electric sales is low, but is it due to wrong cars/fuel, prices or possibility to charge it?

I welcome the tuners back in the wrc, as late as in the '90's they had an impact in the rallyworld, ofcourse we wont se buggies in the wrc, because the tires has to be inside the wheelarc.

Breath with your stomac and have a nice xmas!

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[denkimi]

In Norway 97% of new cars sales is electric, so its wrong nobody wants it.
But, most people dont care, they still buy teslas in norway...

Yes. But only because they effectively made it illegal to buy other cars with subsidies and taxes.

[WRCStan]

Yes. But only because they effectively made it illegal to buy other cars with subsidies and taxes.

Yeah they have a zero emissions car sales mandate whilst being a very wealthy nation thanks to oil and gas. Imagine that lol. Oil and gas worth twice as much to Norway as all the exports that 85 million Germans can produce. Their trade surplus is worth $8,000 per person per month. Eurozone trade surplus is worth $37 per person per month, averaged to a year. UK runs a trade deficit by policy, as France, Finland and others. The wealth just isn't there in other countries, so yes, it's the prices for most ordinary people.

[Rallyper]

In Europe electric cars runs mostly on coal. You need to get electricity from somewhere, right? And that is coal, oil. It´s a bit hypocrisy running an E-vehicle and still think you contributing... A clean Euro 6 diesel run with HVO100 fuel could actually be a lot cleaner.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/v2/D4E22AQH8ErjqF15f8A/feedshare-shrink_800/feedshare-shrink_800/0/1692947770133?e=1768435200&v=beta&t=pHuM8AVOpaE-xl_vIXAok9FpGylAbZpfi0bjk_zw6tI

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What about collision safety with only spaceframe and no real panels surrounding the bodyshell? Will the G-forces increase when hitting a firm object.

An ordinary bodyshell itself has zones mitigating g-forces, which I don´t really see a spaceframe has...

They say the new spaceframe with safety cell will be safer than the current Rally1 cars.

But they way we've recently seen doors, tailgates, full side panels etc fly off with light contact doesnt seem good to me either.

[speederbee]

In Europe electric cars runs mostly on coal. You need to get electricity from somewhere, right? And that is coal, oil. It´s a bit hypocrisy running an E-vehicle and still think you contributing... A clean Euro 6 diesel run with HVO100 fuel could actually be a lot cleaner.

Respectfully, I don't think this is true. I've looked at several sources and coal only amounts to about 12% of European electricity production, and that number has been steadily dropping.

Also. I am not an expert on this next point, but I suspect diesels are not as clean as you think. Sure maybe during laboratory tests in ideal conditions they can do okay, when the engines are new and properly maintained and driven efficiently (and sometimes when manufacturers cheat on the tests, eg dieselgate). But in real world conditions, when engines are old and/or cold, it's a different story. Where I live, diesels are rare, but when I visit places where diesels are common, the city air literally stinks of diesel fumes.

I have no agenda re: electric cars, I don't own one and I don't particularly want one, but I do feel obliged to try to correct misinformation. Anyone please correct me if I'm the wrong one here.

My source for the 12% is https://www.iea.org/regions/europe/emissions

[wyler]

eu power generators from mixed online sources:
Renewables (47.3% in 2024): The leading source, with significant growth from wind and solar, which combined often exceed nuclear output. (norway, iceland almost 100%)
Nuclear (23.4% in 2024): A major source, especially in countries like France, though its share is decreasing relative to renewables.
Fossil Fuels (29.2% in 2024): A declining share, primarily from natural gas (the largest fossil source) and coal.

[WRCStan]

Anyone please correct me if I'm the wrong one here.

I didn't check but I can believe it, zero emissions energy does a good chunk. I don't want to dwell on the off-topic but a good source for anybody interested in this is https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/live/fifteen_minutes

[Kenneth]

Wow so this forum became boomer posting Facebook? Even if electric production were mainly from coal, which it isn't even remotely, it would be still cleaner.

The efficiency of coal plant + electric car is still much much higher than diesel engine.

[WRCStan]

More efficient ≠ cleaner. Coal is absolutely filthy stuff.

Anyone else struggling to get a doctors appointment? What is it with these people hey?

[Rallyper]

Respectfully, I don't think this is true. I've looked at several sources and coal only amounts to about 12% of European electricity production, and that number has been steadily dropping.

Also. I am not an expert on this next point, but I suspect diesels are not as clean as you think. Sure maybe during laboratory tests in ideal conditions they can do okay, when the engines are new and properly maintained and driven efficiently (and sometimes when manufacturers cheat on the tests, eg dieselgate). But in real world conditions, when engines are old and/or cold, it's a different story. Where I live, diesels are rare, but when I visit places where diesels are common, the city air literally stinks of diesel fumes.

I have no agenda re: electric cars, I don't own one and I don't particularly want one, but I do feel obliged to try to correct misinformation. Anyone please correct me if I'm the wrong one here.

My source for the 12% is https://www.iea.org/regions/europe/emissions

And Germany for sure themselves are at higher percent.

[Rallyper]

Wow so this forum became boomer posting Facebook? Even if electric production were mainly from coal, which it isn't even remotely, it would be still cleaner.

The efficiency of coal plant + electric car is still much much higher than diesel engine.

You also have to count the full livecircle, from mining to used car...
So only boomers sees things clear then? ;) ;)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

A lot of the Renewables percentage is misleading, as there are many times the wind isn't blowing or the sun isnt shining. This is when percentage of fossil fuels jumps hugely and in many cases is imported.

[Kenneth]

You also have to count the full livecircle, from mining to used car...
So only boomers sees things clear then? ;) ;)

Well the metastudies showed the consensus that when you count the full lifecircle, the electric cars become more "cleaner" in about 4 years, which is about a quarter of a lifetime of a car.

So more like boomers ignores clear facts. Unfortunately not just them.

There is nothing wrong in saying you prefer ICE cars because you like them more. The is a lot of wrong in trying to argue ICE cars are better by sharing a many time disproved propaganda shared by oil companies and oil exporting counties. There could have been sustainable fuels for like 50 years already, instead of pushing electric cars now.

[Rallyper]

Well, our discussion on the subject "electric cars - do we like them or not" leads nowhere, so let´s go back to the topic WRC 2027, and sum up some of us are not fooled by the car industry and politics.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Electric cars aren't going to be suitable for proper rallying any time soon. They just dont have the range plus there's the weight of the batteries.

Fans also want the noise of ICE cars and there's the safety aspect. Not unlike on the road where yesterday I saw a pedestrian nearly hit by a Tesla which he never heard coming...

[Steve Boyd]

Fans also want the noise of ICE cars and there's the safety aspect. Not unlike on the road where yesterday I saw a pedestrian nearly hit by a Tesla which he never heard coming...The lack of noise has been an issue since GpN was introduced when they had to change the rules to try to make the cars noisier so that spectators could hear them coming.

[WRCStan]

Well, our discussion on the subject "electric cars - do we like them or not" leads nowhere, so let´s go back to the topic WRC 2027, and sum up some of us are not fooled by the car industry and politics.

Or to sum up my own position, don't see the relevance link between the championship and the consumer car industry any more, or going forward. Going back to:


It's no longer about what you, I or even the FIA wants.
It's about what we can get. It the big manufacturers aren't interested anymore, we can either have private tuners or no WRC championship at all.

Blame the EU with their stupid rules that pushed electric cars that nobody wanted.

I don't think the EV mandates makes too much difference to manufacturers into WRC. The cars are going digital, roads are getting smarter and mobility is getting 'controlled'. Meanwhile the championship moved towards a tour and not participation.

[Andre Oliveira]

We are in the end of 2025 and people still "living" in 1980. Who are jailled in 80s 90s memory never will live the moment. We have a bloody performant cars since 2017 and people every day saying that Gr B was great. The sport will die, not by the technology, but by dynossaurs fans.

[deephouse]

Also aspect of this nostalgy of having marathon events. Literally 4-5 world class drivers are saying that the format should shorten and that the calendar is too demanding for their lives. And when someone mention this problem, everyone goes that F1 have much more races on calendar. The world is moving towards more free time, and people do actually want some of that, even drivers.

[Rallyper]

Also aspect of this nostalgy of having marathon events. Literally 4-5 world class drivers are saying that the format should shorten and that the calendar is too demanding for their lives. And when someone mention this problem, everyone goes that F1 have much more races on calendar. The world is moving towards more free time, and people do actually want some of that, even drivers.

If I get you right, drivers in F1, don´t need more free time then, according to how you reasoning.
So to sum up what do you want for changes then?

[WRCStan]

Rallies today are still long for the drivers. Recce starts Tuesday AM, the mandatory dinner on Sunday PM, including travel makes a 7/8 day working week for each rally. Add another day or two's stages it gets worse. But I don't think the drivers win if they want shorter working days AND fewer days.

[PLuto]

Rallies today are still long for the drivers. Recce starts Tuesday AM, the mandatory dinner on Sunday PM, including travel makes a 7/8 day working week for each rally. Add another day or two's stages it gets worse. But I don't think the drivers win if they want shorter working days AND fewer days.

It is much worse. Because you must add also pre-event tests. And recce sometimes starts also on Monday, so you need to be there with one day advance to make recce registration... It is easier for manufacture drivers who has lot of people around them, but more difficult for others...

[Steve Boyd]

Rallies today are still long for the drivers. Recce starts Tuesday AM, the mandatory dinner on Sunday PM, including travel makes a 7/8 day working week for each rally. Add another day or two's stages it gets worse. But I don't think the drivers win if they want shorter working days AND fewer days.
OK, so a 2½ day rally needs 7 or 8 days. If you shorten the rally to 1½ days it will still need 6 or 7 days. If the drivers want more time off then the WRC needs to have fewer events. The same applies to F1, taking a day off each event doesn't make that much difference they'll only get more free time by reducing the number of races.

[Rallyper]

Why? A ordinary man have to be at work for 40 hrs a week, at least. Many work nightshifts. Earning just scraps compared to professional rallydrivers. And you think (I believe not the drivers though) the are too busy and feel sorry for the guys?

If you get 1- 5 million Euros a year, and maybe more, working "hard" for the money isn´t an issue. Shouldn´t be.

[WRCStan]

Why? A ordinary man have to be at work for 40 hrs a week, at least. Many work nightshifts. Earning just scraps compared to professional rallydrivers. And you think (I believe not the drivers though) the are too busy and feel sorry for the guys?

If you get 1- 5 million Euros a year, and maybe more, working "hard" for the money isn´t an issue. Shouldn´t be.

Well, our discussion on the subject "working hours - do we like them or not" leads nowhere, so let´s go back to the topic WRC 2027, and sum up some of us are not fooled by the whingeing of the drivers or old fans.

[saco0o]

ARA will have this class, they say its 135k for "faster than a rally2 car"... wtf
https://dirtfish.com/rally/ara/stryker-one-make-series-coming-to-ara-in-2026/

3cyl rotax turbo engine

thats really awesome tbf haha love to see ""UTVs"" in rally - since "modern cars" are all boring hybrid SUVS now =P

[WRCStan]

ARA will have this class, they say its 135k for "faster than a rally2 car"... wtf
https://dirtfish.com/rally/ara/stryker-one-make-series-coming-to-ara-in-2026/

3cyl rotax turbo engine

thats really awesome tbf haha love to see ""UTVs"" in rally - since "modern cars" are all boring hybrid SUVS now =P

That wouldn't surprise me to see it in a 'rally racing' series, but won't ever be in WRC or European rallying. Can't imagine it on a tarmac stage and even the photos lack a codriver. But good luck to them, always nice to see human doings.

[Rallyper]

Well, our discussion on the subject "working hours - do we like them or not" leads nowhere, so let´s go back to the topic WRC 2027, and sum up some of us are not fooled by the whingeing of the drivers or old fans.

Just take a look at the meaning of the word "rally". Hint: Rallye Monte Carlo.

[Kenneth]

Why? A ordinary man have to be at work for 40 hrs a week, at least. Many work nightshifts. Earning just scraps compared to professional rallydrivers. And you think (I believe not the drivers though) the are too busy and feel sorry for the guys?

If you get 1- 5 million Euros a year, and maybe more, working "hard" for the money isn´t an issue. Shouldn´t be.

Lmao... Does your work week also include more than a week long trips abroad where you work 24/7? And intensive work outs, testing, etc?

And the drivers aren't the only ones working there. And the rest works for so less money.

Would you rather prefer if top drivers were retiring?

[Rallyper]

24/7?
Wasn´t it drivers we talked about?

[skarderud]

To be honest, if a driver think its not worth it, he is finished.

A offshore (oil) worker in norway works 2 or 3 weeks, 12h shifts, home for 2 weeks. They earns quite good money, its close to the same amount of work.

A good friend played in a famous rockband, they was on tour i 6 months, just 1 week home in the middle.

A collegue at work was trainer for brasil WC team in alpin, he was away from family 250 days last season.

Or, start a new business from scratch with little money, you even can work enormous amount of hours without to get paid.

Yes, its lots of hours on tour, but if you follow your dreams and ending up having a good salary, i dont feel sorry. Step aside and let a more hungry driver try your seat if you feel need for more vacation.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

Just take a look at the meaning of the word "rally". Hint: Rallye Monte Carlo.

'To gather together; at an agreed place or behind a cause'

?

Using your words I was only laughing at how we went off topic again so quickly.

[Rallyper]

'To gather together; at an agreed place or behind a cause'

?

Using your words I was only laughing at how we went off topic again so quickly.

I don´t know your age, but RMC back in the 50´s and 60´, started from lots of cities in Europe and did liason all the way to MC. It took maybe almost a week for transportation... on winther roads, as it was back then.
That´s the heritage. And it´s been changes since, of course, but don´t say we need shorter two days rallies in WRC.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally always had an endurance element.

And I remember the (mainly Scandinavian) drivers moaning about long days, night stages, lack of sleep and it being dangerous way back in the 80's on the RAC Rally.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It is much worse. Because you must add also pre-event tests. And recce sometimes starts also on Monday, so you need to be there with one day advance to make recce registration... It is easier for manufacture drivers who has lot of people around them, but more difficult for others...

Spot on.

Think of the 'lower ranks' who have to do so much more themselves with none of the financial rewards the Rally1 stars.

[wyler]

i think trying to find a balance is a good point. when we think about the past, about format, heritage is all true. but we have to take into account that things were different, and sport has evolved in professionalism and duties. things like constant fit training and media/corporate/sponsor duties didn't existed so much back then, we had the romantic memories as drivers smoking in the car while driving, but now? we have driver training with marathon or mountain bike and do healthy diet.
we have to take into account that needs are different. i quite agree with the "dream work" point, and i'm not for reducing event days or events at all, but maybe is possible to reduce/redistribute work hours/shift (especially for mechanics and non-top team members). maybe they can also pack some near events (including tests) and have longer breaks during the season...

[Kenneth]

24/7?
Wasn´t it drivers we talked about?

Yes, every single thing they from eating breakfast to having good sleep they do so they can do the best performance. So yes, they are working 24/7.

[Rallyper]

Yes, every single thing they from eating breakfast to having good sleep they do so they can do the best performance. So yes, they are working 24/7.

Even football players then. Having three matches a week often...-

[WRCStan]

Fascinating analysis of the rollcage/safety cell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ9acQWjjL4

[skarderud]

Yes, every single thing they from eating breakfast to having good sleep they do so they can do the best performance. So yes, they are working 24/7.Like every other top athlete. Still no sympathy. They doing theire dream and get good paid.
Its 2000 rallydrivers last 20 years that would give everything to make a swap.

Its like every other job, when you are finished in one, change.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

Peter Thul (WRC Promoter) says WRC27 will go to ERC and national championships as soon as 2028/29 and FIA are actively discussing timelines https://youtu.be/vrojMnqI2iw?t=1185

[drive]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CAvQ3q1ow/ Subaru coming?

[skarderud]

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1CAvQ3q1ow/ Subaru coming?Some rumours says so, january 9th.2026 we get some news, maybe just in the US, hopefully the rumoured Petter Solberg Subaru WRT from 2027.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[denkimi]

OK, so a 2½ day rally needs 7 or 8 days. If you shorten the rally to 1½ days it will still need 6 or 7 days. If the drivers want more time off then the WRC needs to have fewer events. The same applies to F1, taking a day off each event doesn't make that much difference they'll only get more free time by reducing the number of races.
I believe drivers were mostly complaining about too long liaisons, sometimes having to drive hundreds of kilometers just to do one or a few stages.
One of the most ridiculous examples was ypres 2021. On sunday, they had parc ferme out at 4.50, having to drive 300km of liaison. Just to do 40km of stages from 8.30 to 12.30.

They should have stages closer together, so they can start later and end earlier.

[deephouse]

It's not just drivers who would befefit from that. Also fans, who want to see more stages live. The camera crew, support, media, key people... It's umderstandable that the hosting country wants to action get through as many places they can, but basically liasion doesn't give any real benefit to the events at all, except abnormal time restrictions and schedules.. I see only benefit reducing that for many involving aspects.

Regarding Subaru. I think it's only some sort of motorsport activity or announcement for new STI models, since the car on the video have too much revelance to regular car. Rally cars usually isn't that much comforty and too regular. Their knobs and sticks usually looks like some sort home build and nothing like you would see in some normal cars.

[WRCStan]

I expect January 9th will pass without even a comment on what actually was announced. As usual it's the false hope that is the story.

[Gordini]

Is the correct name for this generation Rally1 2027?

what would have happened to the World rally championchip if the new rally1 was todays rally2 car, and rally3 had taken the role as top car for all other championchips international and national series?

[WRCStan]

what would have happened to the World rally championchip if the new rally1 was todays rally2 car, and rally3 had taken the role as top car for all other championchips international and national series?

WRC would die. Then there will be 2000 otherwise useless existing Rally2s hitting the non-ASN championships making them more appealing than the national championships, so they also die. Will the ASNs allow it? No, so the owners and fans find a new sporting format outside the ASNs' authority. Internationally, in best case scenario, a Rally2 type championship is made available, but it kills off Rally3 ERC and regionals. Would the FIA permit it? No.

So the FIA and ASN's would lose their sport and what's left becomes a historics/tuners sport but not as anybody knows it because not only are not enough new base production cars being made, there's no real stability or the incentive to produce rally variants.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Will the new WRC27 Cars be eligible for National championships seeing as they'll be on a par with the old Rally2's ? This could help Manufacturers and Tuners to sell more cars and encourage them.

[deephouse]

They said that their goal is to bring to national level too.

[wyler]

from 28 on, i read somewhere

[WRCStan]

I expect January 9th will pass without even a comment on what actually was announced. As usual it's the false hope that is the story.

...

[deephouse]

I think it was their Launch control series coming back and nothing else.

[wyler]

...

They announced a wrx sti for super taiku championship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTMlEQnTLzg&t=89s

[Kenneth]

I can't believe that people can still get mad because something they made up in their head isn't happening lmao.

They also announced that they'll introduce new or upgraded car for Japanese rally championship.

[WRCStan]

Decoding the WRC27 with Lionel Hansen (of Prospeed Rally One)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-HMEQAfX04

Much to hear from the horse's mouth.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More than 10 tuners show interest in WRC 2027 rules...

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/more-than-10-tuners-show-interest-in-wrc-2027-rules/10792917/

But attracting Manufacturers will take work and a new Promoter to show there's a return on investment.

[WRCStan]

More than 10 tuners show interest in WRC 2027 rules...

Words for the new promoter maybe.


But attracting Manufacturers will take work and a new Promoter to show there's a return on investment.

Manufacturers are not coming, move on Malcolm.

[deephouse]

Surely they will not come, even those who are here didn't comit it yet, if ever. Nobody knows if even Toyota will, as it is expected they will. Who knows, maybe Toyoda will change strategy and leave for F1 fully (I know, the worst scenario, and probably the one who would kill WRC instantly).

And also nobody wants to be first, right. Maybe at some point they will start to show interest and will come, take over maybe tuners work. But only if return of investment will be worth it, but we really don't believe that will ever happen, right? I'm even sceptical with this so-called new promoter, that it will be any different. WRC lost whole motivation a very long time ago and it would need to take a miracles to bring it back as it was. Also this current promotor is here to make business, and what would new do? Also making business.

[WRCStan]

Gazoo likely will, they're too invested. 'Toyota' are in every motorsport somehow from top to bottom. Not sure if going to F1 has to detract from the funding elsewhere especially when rally should be profit making.

Anyone thinking manufacturers are coming and who likes to talk about road relevancy still has to explain what the WRC relevancy of what's going on with road cars and net zero is. Same with the production engine lark.

[Kenneth]

I don't think Toyota would want to fully take over the F1 team until they'll be able to use their own engine, which would be possible from 2030, if they would commit to it this year, but that could possibly be last year of hybrid engines. So more realistic is 2031.

But I don't think Toyota would withdraw from WRC, they can't really use the facility or much of the workers for F1. Maybe their budget would be cut, but that also shouldn't be much issue with soft budget cap and return of commercial aspect of selling the cars.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Toyota (GR) are clearly committed with confirming they're already building a WRC27 Car. And why wouldn't they when they've been so successful and dominating with Rally1 ?

But they do have to sell these cars (or chassis?) to whoever wants one, so privateers/teams should be able to compete with them on the same level.

As for other and new Manufacturers, it's a tough one. Not only do they need to see a ROI and sell their cars, but they also face trying to beat the might of Toyota.

[skarderud]

What if the new promoter is Gazoo? Any possibility for that?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[deephouse]

That would be conflict of interest, I suppose. In RedBull case as it is right now, they don't have their own team on WRC like there is in F1, but as long as I know they don't own F1 promoter.

[Negaiss]

Aparently at least 10 Tuners already have shown interest in joining WRC from 2027. So - the interest is there, lets wait and see what happens.

https://4rati.lv/rallijs/rallijs-pasaule/fia-vairak-ka-desmit-komandas-gatavojas-startet-wrc-no-2027-gada/?fbclid=IwY2xjawPoMtlleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9p ZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEeej1KokaScJDt5EEfUTTC1O S8BYFfa94RZABW-kQTxiac2KStFbsVJH4s9_8_aem_ZqgtU2K9YvktPIMs43HZpg

[PLuto]

Aparently at least 10 Tuners already have shown interest in joining WRC from 2027. So - the interest is there, lets wait and see what happens.

https://4rati.lv/rallijs/rallijs-pasaule/fia-vairak-ka-desmit-komandas-gatavojas-startet-wrc-no-2027-gada/?fbclid=IwY2xjawPoMtlleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9p ZBAyMjIwMzkxNzg4MjAwODkyAAEeej1KokaScJDt5EEfUTTC1O S8BYFfa94RZABW-kQTxiac2KStFbsVJH4s9_8_aem_ZqgtU2K9YvktPIMs43HZpg

Who knows what is the reality. What exactly it is "shown interest"? It means they have asked for details of regulations? I know one team who has asked for details, but I am sure they will never build car on this level...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC27 marks a hard-headed gamble to stabilise rallying’s future.

By Steve Jones (Rallying UK)

The WRC27 regulations are less a renaissance than a strategic recalibration, designed to preserve competitive viability in the absence of guaranteed manufacturer commitment. While the framework offers hope through inclusivity and cost realism, it also introduces new vulnerabilities that will test governance, commercial strength and the championship’s long-term relevance.
Since the publication of the WRC27 regulations, I have been a consistent and vocal supporter of the direction taken. That position has not been universally popular, but it is one I hold with conviction. The World Rally Championship stands at a critical juncture, and for the first time in several years there is clear evidence of a governing body willing to confront the sport’s structural problems rather than merely manage its decline.
The FIA’s response has been bold, pragmatic and - crucially - rooted in realism. Faced with shifting manufacturer priorities, escalating costs and an increasingly fragile competitive ecosystem, the chosen path represents a genuine attempt to future-proof the championship. I believe this direction is fundamentally sound, and that it has a credible chance of succeeding.
That said, no regulatory reset of this magnitude comes without risk. It is essential to look beyond the headline optimism and examine the potential downsides: the second- and third-order effects, and the unintended consequences that may only become apparent once the regulations move from paper to the Service Park. As 2027 approaches, those considerations deserve serious and dispassionate scrutiny.

What follows are some of the key issues that warrant attention:

1. Shift in power dynamics within the WRC Service Park
If tuners become numerically dominant, influence may shift away from manufacturers towards smaller constructors and the FIA itself. Over time, this could reshape technical governance, sporting priorities, and even calendar decisions, favouring cost containment over innovation.

2. Secondary market distortion
The requirement to produce cars for customer teams (10 per year) may lead to oversupply if sporting demand does not materialise. This could depress resale values, undermine tuner balance sheets, and discourage future entrants once early financial realities become visible.

3. Long-term brand disengagement
If manufacturers perceive the WRC as increasingly detached from road-car relevance, the championship risks drifting further from OEM strategies focused on electric vehicles, software, and new mobility ideas such as connectivity, autonomy, sustainability. This could entrench a cycle where regulations are written around manufacturer absence rather than to attract them back.

4. Promoter leverage inversion
The FIA suggest tuner interest strengthens the hand of a future promoter. The longer-term effect may be the opposite: a promoter inheriting a fragmented field of small constructors may face weaker collective bargaining power with broadcasters, sponsors, and host events.

5. Short-term credibility risk
If several highly publicised tuner projects collapse before homologation, the WRC27 regulations could quickly acquire a reputation for being theoretically attractive but practically unviable. That reputational damage would be immediate and difficult to reverse.

6. Cost escalation through compliance
While framed as inclusive, the homologation obligations (minimum production volumes, customer supply) may quietly drive costs higher than anticipated. Smaller tuners may underestimate these burdens, leading to financial distress or mid-cycle withdrawals.

7. Talent and resource dilution
A proliferation of small constructors could thin the pool of experienced engineers, suppliers, and rally-specific expertise. In the short term this looks like growth; in the longer term it risks reducing overall technical quality and reliability across the grid.

8. Regulatory lock-in
If the tuner model becomes entrenched, future regulation cycles may be constrained by their needs, making it harder to pivot towards technologies or formats that would attract major manufacturers later. The sport could inadvertently design itself into a corner.
WRC27 is widely presented as a renaissance built on inclusivity and renewed interest. A more critical reading suggests something subtler is at play: a strategic recalibration that trades some degree of traditional manufacturer centrality for competitive stability and broader participation. Whether that compromise ultimately reinvigorates the championship or merely arrests further decline will depend far less on the headline number of interested tuners, and far more on the effectiveness of governance, promotion and long-term commercial strategy.

Having said all of that, I remain genuinely optimistic about WRC27. Rallying has always evolved through periods of disruption, and its greatest eras have often emerged from moments of uncertainty rather than comfort.

As great writer and speaker Alan Watts so succinctly put it:
“The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance.”

Take your partners...

[RS]

I wish they’d call these potential new entries ‘constructors’ rather than ‘tuners’

To me a tuner is someone fitting some cheap aftermarket accessories to a road car.

[WRCStan]

If I wanted the thoughts of AI, I've already written them.

[Rallyper]

Looks more and more be lika RallyX in their unsuccesful declining days...

[Dimitris]

WRC27 marks a hard-headed gamble to stabilise rallying’s future.

By Steve Jones (Rallying UK)

The WRC27 regulations are less a renaissance than a strategic recalibration, designed to preserve competitive viability in the absence of guaranteed manufacturer commitment. While the framework offers hope through inclusivity and cost realism, it also introduces new vulnerabilities that will test governance, commercial strength and the championship’s long-term relevance.
Since the publication of the WRC27 regulations, I have been a consistent and vocal supporter of the direction taken. That position has not been universally popular, but it is one I hold with conviction. The World Rally Championship stands at a critical juncture, and for the first time in several years there is clear evidence of a governing body willing to confront the sport’s structural problems rather than merely manage its decline.
The FIA’s response has been bold, pragmatic and - crucially - rooted in realism. Faced with shifting manufacturer priorities, escalating costs and an increasingly fragile competitive ecosystem, the chosen path represents a genuine attempt to future-proof the championship. I believe this direction is fundamentally sound, and that it has a credible chance of succeeding.
That said, no regulatory reset of this magnitude comes without risk. It is essential to look beyond the headline optimism and examine the potential downsides: the second- and third-order effects, and the unintended consequences that may only become apparent once the regulations move from paper to the Service Park. As 2027 approaches, those considerations deserve serious and dispassionate scrutiny.

What follows are some of the key issues that warrant attention:

1. Shift in power dynamics within the WRC Service Park
If tuners become numerically dominant, influence may shift away from manufacturers towards smaller constructors and the FIA itself. Over time, this could reshape technical governance, sporting priorities, and even calendar decisions, favouring cost containment over innovation.

2. Secondary market distortion
The requirement to produce cars for customer teams (10 per year) may lead to oversupply if sporting demand does not materialise. This could depress resale values, undermine tuner balance sheets, and discourage future entrants once early financial realities become visible.

3. Long-term brand disengagement
If manufacturers perceive the WRC as increasingly detached from road-car relevance, the championship risks drifting further from OEM strategies focused on electric vehicles, software, and new mobility ideas such as connectivity, autonomy, sustainability. This could entrench a cycle where regulations are written around manufacturer absence rather than to attract them back.

4. Promoter leverage inversion
The FIA suggest tuner interest strengthens the hand of a future promoter. The longer-term effect may be the opposite: a promoter inheriting a fragmented field of small constructors may face weaker collective bargaining power with broadcasters, sponsors, and host events.

5. Short-term credibility risk
If several highly publicised tuner projects collapse before homologation, the WRC27 regulations could quickly acquire a reputation for being theoretically attractive but practically unviable. That reputational damage would be immediate and difficult to reverse.

6. Cost escalation through compliance
While framed as inclusive, the homologation obligations (minimum production volumes, customer supply) may quietly drive costs higher than anticipated. Smaller tuners may underestimate these burdens, leading to financial distress or mid-cycle withdrawals.

7. Talent and resource dilution
A proliferation of small constructors could thin the pool of experienced engineers, suppliers, and rally-specific expertise. In the short term this looks like growth; in the longer term it risks reducing overall technical quality and reliability across the grid.

8. Regulatory lock-in
If the tuner model becomes entrenched, future regulation cycles may be constrained by their needs, making it harder to pivot towards technologies or formats that would attract major manufacturers later. The sport could inadvertently design itself into a corner.
WRC27 is widely presented as a renaissance built on inclusivity and renewed interest. A more critical reading suggests something subtler is at play: a strategic recalibration that trades some degree of traditional manufacturer centrality for competitive stability and broader participation. Whether that compromise ultimately reinvigorates the championship or merely arrests further decline will depend far less on the headline number of interested tuners, and far more on the effectiveness of governance, promotion and long-term commercial strategy.

Having said all of that, I remain genuinely optimistic about WRC27. Rallying has always evolved through periods of disruption, and its greatest eras have often emerged from moments of uncertainty rather than comfort.

As great writer and speaker Alan Watts so succinctly put it:
“The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance.”

Take your partners...

Please don't share Rallying UK's AI slop

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Please don't share Rallying UK's AI slop

I dont believe its AI, or 'slop'. I trust Steve and this is his own work.

If you can write a better critique of WRC27 then let's have it.

[tbazsi95]

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/

"The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2."

[WRCStan]

"All mechanical components must be sourced from current Rally2 manufacturers"

Not sure that's explicitly true, even if you do call an OEM a Rally2 manufacturer. I watched the interview and scan-checked it again and it wasn't said.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2026/02/02/what-a-tuner-built-wrc27-car-will-look-like-prospeeds-rally-one/

"The mechanical base of the Prospeed’s Rally One will entirely come from the Škoda Fabia RS Rally2."

So a car built using Fabia Rally2 mechanicals, but on a new spaceframe chassis, with added Porsche body panels and some tuner-designed aero.

How can this mash-up be better than an actual properly-develooed Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 car ?

[WRCStan]

I dont believe its AI, or 'slop'. I trust Steve and this is his own work.

On this I actually read it. Clear as day there are far too many long words. Analysis tools show there are more 8+ letter words than 5-7 letter words, and the average for the article is 5.66 letters per word when the normal English average is 4.79. When over 5: "Such texts are usually more complex or technical and use difficult words with many syllables". Maybe Steve writes like this I don't know, but I don't believe phrases like 'Promoter leverage inversion', 'numerically dominant' and 'dispassionate scrutiny' are written for rally fans who are usually as thick as mince.

Anyway, much of the points make the same point. Tuners are replacing manufacturers. He tells us he's consistently been behind the change but is concerned that the regs may not attract manufacturers back because of lost road-relevance. I'm not sure what it is then that he's been behind, but apart from it being 15 years too late for that, I'd actually like to hear more from Steve on this because not enough talk about it - if he is reading and did write all that - tell me the 2030s road-relevance of WRC and what he would like to expect, and I'll piss off everybody here again by saying it can be found in ecoRally.

#7 as a serious concern is lost on me. What warrants attention? Is that a concern that things might actually turn out well?

[WRCStan]

So a car built using Fabia Rally2 mechanicals, but on a new spaceframe chassis, with added Porsche body panels and some tuner-designed aero.

How can this mash-up be better than an actual properly-develooed Skoda Fabia RS Rally2 car ?

It might not be car vs car, but it gives a World Championship and industry without irrelevant gatekeepers.

[rallyfiend]

I dont believe its AI, or 'slop'. I trust Steve and this is his own work.

If you can write a better critique of WRC27 then let's have it.

100% AI shite.

I don't need an analysis tool to tell me that.

[rallyfiend]

I dont believe its AI, or 'slop'. I trust Steve and this is his own work.

If you can write a better critique of WRC27 then let's have it.

100% AI shite.

I don't need an analysis tool to tell me that.

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-dismisses-building-wrc27-rally1-car/
No hope for our european manufacturers I see…can’t blame them tbh with the “level” of promotion within the series, but I’m tired of hearing the cars and everything is too expensive while these manufacturers spend billions on stupid advertising yet €80 million for them is too much…(guessing 80 from the VW days)…ffs, roll on 2030 I guess…

[rallyfiend]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-dismisses-building-wrc27-rally1-car/
No hope for our european manufacturers I see…can’t blame them tbh with the “level” of promotion within the series, but I’m tired of hearing the cars and everything is too expensive while these manufacturers spend billions on stupid advertising yet €80 million for them is too much…(guessing 80 from the VW days)…ffs, roll on 2030 I guess…

This sounds like the tech regs themselves just haven't been built right for manufacturers, but for small garagistes.

And can they afford to really run full world programmes on the back of driver money?!

If Lancia and Skoda want no part of it, who have they really been built for?

[skarderud]

Probably M-sport and prodrive?

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

RIP WRC as series 2027

[skarderud]

RIP WRC as series 2027How?

I think this is better than today, lets wait some months to see who's join before we be to negative.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[RS]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/skoda-dismisses-building-wrc27-rally1-car/
No hope for our european manufacturers I see…can’t blame them tbh with the “level” of promotion within the series, but I’m tired of hearing the cars and everything is too expensive while these manufacturers spend billions on stupid advertising yet €80 million for them is too much…(guessing 80 from the VW days)…ffs, roll on 2030 I guess…

The current Fabia road car’s life will be extended until 2030, maybe after that they will reconsider.

The article doesn’t say they won’t be involved in a WRC programme with the Rally2 car though. Maybe a bigger programme than now is possible, even if it’s still with Toksport.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If we discount Toyota, it will be hard for any OEM to commit to building a WRC27 car until they know more about the Promoter, who else will be taking part and if they could be competitive.

This is true even for marques with Rally2 cars which are recent (Skoda) or new (Lancia) when they've already spent a chunk of money making or developing them.

If even Hyundai and M-Sport cant take the plunge and are going to run their dated Rally2 cars then the WRC really is in a bad way.

[deephouse]

I believe there is ''no'' new promoter and are still searching for one, because how many times did they postpone announcement already. Also this 10 tuner story smells to me just copy-paste 9 WRC27 projects on table (just added one to sound ''better) as been reported few weeks ago. If anyone would want to commit to it, it would already do, because there is not much time left (10 months). Nobody will build the car, test it and run programme. I even don't hear or read any story about Toyota actually confirming they will enter the WRC2027 season. Nothing. And I seriouslyy believe, that Prospeed will not be ready for Monte 2027. FIA and key people in charge for WRC did missed the last possible date for announcing the rules and especially to find new promoter (at the start of 2025 or maybe the last last time in the middle of 2025.

So what will the WRC 2027 look like. Rally2 cars competing against each other. There is more than enough manufacturers or teams that can run those cars (Toyota, Lancia, Skoda, Hyundai, M-Sport and then there you have privateers with Citroen, and all those cars mentioned)... Or there will be no WRC 2027 season at all. If we try to stay positive, believe me, drivers who says that Rally2 cars or WRC27 cars will be too slow, when there will be no other option, they will drive slower cars. If they don't there is sea of fish who will instead of them (I have a feeling nobody will retire, because of that).

If I'm honest, I would take that Rally2 top category for transitional period. One year, two, until the rules are perfectly clear (sorry but there is still so much confusion around, but what can we expect if it was released practically ''yesterday''), there is officially done deal with new promoter and their work on promotion actually start, and when there will be teams ready, and I mean really ready, not some sort half seasons bullshit. Until then, there is just one and only logical solution. Those top WRC drivers would make those Rally2 machines spectacular anyway.

[RS]

If Rally2 will be similar in performance to the WRC27 cars what cars will run in WRC2 next year?

[WRCStan]

RIP WRC as series 2027

RIP the users of this forum who are unprepared for and/or ignorant of how fast the world is changing.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

We dont know what discussions are going on behind the scenes especially with Hyundai and M-Sport.

I wouldn't be surprised if they extended Rally1 for another year to give them time to build their new cars for 2028.

Having them using their old Rally2's in 2027 when they have their up-to-date Rally1 Puma and i20 seems silly.

[WRCStan]

Discussions with who?

Rally1s are done. More likely there'll be a teams championship including Rally2s if there's not enough WRC27 constructors to constitute a constructors championship, else they wouldn't have put the combined top class and been so bold to move away from a manufacturers championship.

@RS, can't assume the new promoter will even run a WRC2 or any support championship.

[PLuto]

If I am not mistaken, 2026 is the last year where you can build Rally2 car according to current regulations...

[saco0o]

If Rally2 will be similar in performance to the WRC27 cars what cars will run in WRC2 next year?

PLEASE FIA, dont go for: "wrc is for constructors with 2 car teams - wrc2 is for the privateers"

[Steve Boyd]

If I am not mistaken, 2026 is the last year where you can build Rally2 car according to current regulations...
Surely people can still build Rally2 cars after 2026 but can't homologate a new car or new parts after 2026 - or am I mistaken?

[deephouse]

That's why I'm telling that everything is so confusing. There will no be new cars build for literally all championhsips around the world. The only and the most succesful formula for rally cars will be wipped out and they didn't find the solution? Are they aiming that WRC27 will replace Rally2 cars alltogether? At first I was exciting for this new things but now I'm more and more convinced it will be a total disaster, I just hope that it will not be final nail in the coffin.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Discussions with who?

Rally1s are done. More likely there'll be a teams championship including Rally2s if there's not enough WRC27 constructors to constitute a constructors championship, else they wouldn't have put the combined top class and been so bold to move away from a manufacturers championship..


Discussions wit the FIA, especially Malcolm Wilson.

And if ihe cant commit his Team (M-Sporti) to build a WRC27 car (nor Hyundai) due to limited time, maybe an extension to Rally1.

Otherwise WRC 2027 looks a total mess.

[RS]

If I am not mistaken, 2026 is the last year where you can build Rally2 car according to current regulations...

Fabia RS Evo this year then?

[PLuto]

Surely people can still build Rally2 cars after 2026 but can't homologate a new car or new parts after 2026 - or am I mistaken?

Of course wrong word, it is about homologation. This year is the last one when you can homologate new car.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Fabia RS Evo this year then?

The 'Packet 25' was already quite a development.

https://www.skoda-motorsport.com/en/fabia-rs-rally2-2025-even-faster-and-more-durable/