WRC main class in 2025

[Franky]

The Manufacturers have all the power, without them the WRC is dead. They clearly wont or cant accept the proposed changes either financially or in the timeframe.

I see the only solution to getting more cars at the top level being more deals like has been done for Sesks, with WRC Promoter giving some financial support.

Only solution is more teams. Everything else is a temporary bandage that won't change anything in the long run.

[saco0o]

"Pavlos Athanassoulas, the event director of the Acropolis Rally Greece, told Cosmote TV in an interview that all three manufacturers agreed that the current classification period should be respected until the end of 2026. Furthermore, Athanassoulas revealed that the Rally2 car manufacturers are also united with the top category teams against the FIA’s proposals for next year."

https://rallyjournal.com/information-leaks-from-behind-the-scenes-of-the-world-rally-championship/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Elfyn Evans on the test when the Yaris Rally1 car was fitted with a smaller rear wing, and the air intakes for the hybrid unit were also blocked..

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-star-tests-updated-toyota-gives-direct-feedback-i-was-pretty-slow-at-one-point/

[WRCStan]

Elfyn Evans on the test when the Yaris Rally1 car was fitted with a smaller rear wing, and the air intakes for the hybrid unit were also blocked..

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-star-tests-updated-toyota-gives-direct-feedback-i-was-pretty-slow-at-one-point/

:D

Did you test the 2025 prototype?

“I don’t know.”

...

I guess your opinion is that this is not the way to go?

“I think my opinion on it is quite clear.”

[TypeR]

Now Latvala commenting..
Https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-verdict-on-its-2025-wrc-regulations-test/


Everybody whining and writing off the ,,new'' regulations, but I haven't heard any suggestions from drivers/teams/principals if asked..
Only that everything is bad and Manu's don't want this..

[Backa]

I haven't heard any suggestions from drivers/teams/principals if asked..
Only that everything is bad and Manu's don't want this..

Latvala already said for 2025-2026 they should just take the hybrids out.

[Eli]

On that subject
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fia-wrc-regulations-debate-wont-affect-2025-tyre-development/10604634/

"Autosport understands a compromise on regulations for next year is being discussed with a solution likely to be communicated to teams next month."

Hopefully, like it's been said many times before, they'll just remove the hybrid unit out.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Now Latvala commenting..
Https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-verdict-on-its-2025-wrc-regulations-test/


Everybody whining and writing off the ,,new'' regulations, but I haven't heard any suggestions from drivers/teams/principals if asked..
Only that everything is bad and Manu's don't want this..

The Teams were never complaining about the Regulations (Rally1 cars, or too few of them), they only wanted better promotion of the WRC and the set-up of the events.

And you cant disagree with Latvala's argument over the daft idea of making the Teams Rally1 cars so much slower that a private teams Rally2 Plus could compete with them.

[er88]

Just focus on 27. Full focus. No new manufacturers will come before then, and no new ones will come if clear new regs aren't settled for 2027 by the end of the year (latest first few months on 2025).

If Toyota and Hyundai get their way to stick with current regs until then, then run an extra car in the meantime. Msport AND Ford want the regs to remain, so either make a car more affordable to rent or take the hybrid out and test young drivers (with a token help from the wrc promoter).

Reality is, these three manufacturers have it easy. Can gloss up wins or podiums on every rally as there's no real competition. They'd all lose their sh*t if VW came back in some capacity with a 4car team and a win at all cost budget for Skoda/audi/vw etc etc, and Stellantis joined in. Keep an eye out for what the Renault group do, to. Back marker in F1 season after season but could build a potential leading WRC team on an absolute fraction of the budget (but with cars resembling what they sell daily).

Annoying thing is, if that muppet Richards is spearheading the future of the WRC he will more likely kill us off for good, than rejuvenate the series. With the lack of direction the championship simply bends over to the current marques

[deephouse]

Keep an eye out for what the Renault group do, to. Back marker in F1 season after season but could build a potential leading WRC team on an absolute fraction of the budget (but with cars resembling what they sell daily).

I seriously doubt that Renault group will ever even consider of joining WRC. They never were serious about that championship. Those lower classes doesn't count as nobody care past Rally2.

There is more brands with herritage in rallying like Citroen, Peugeot, Proton, Lancia, Audi, Mitsubishi, Subaru... we could say even Skoda is now building herritage with that Rally2 killer. But Renault, not them. They simply don't care.

[Eli]

I seriously doubt that Renault group will ever even consider of joining WRC. They never were serious about that championship. Those lower classes doesn't count as nobody care past Rally2.

There is more brands with herritage in rallying like Citroen, Peugeot, Proton, Lancia, Audi, Mitsubishi, Subaru... we could say even Skoda is now building herritage with that Rally2 killer. But Renault, not them. They simply don't care.

Renault have bigger fish to fry, at the moment they have next year's Dakar to worry about and with Audi out of the picture, they'll do everything to take it. As for Skoda, wasn't there talk back in 2019 that they had plans to come back to the WRC before Covid-19 binned it all?

[saco0o]

off course i couldnt find the link today, but renault brought a "racing version" of the R5 3E during its release and literally said they talked to fia about rallying that car but 'evs were still not on the table' in wrc's mind. i swear something along these lines happened but i cant find. maybe later on my notebook. i found this one, but this is not the one i've read. https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/renault-pushing-fia-for-electric-rallying-by-2025/
based on some talks from that time i got my suggestion of having rally2 as top class but only for privateers and constumers, factory teams must run hydrogen, hybrid or electric rally2s (bop)

[Mirek]

off course i couldnt find the link today, but renault brought a "racing version" of the R5 3E during its release and literally said they talked to fia about rallying that car but 'evs were still not on the table' in wrc's mind. i swear something along these lines happened but i cant find. maybe later on my notebook. i found this one, but this is not the one i've read. https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/renault-pushing-fia-for-electric-rallying-by-2025/
based on some talks from that time i got my suggestion of having rally2 as top class but only for privateers and constumers, factory teams must run hydrogen, hybrid or electric rally2s (bop)

As I wrote you in another thread* the simple problem with EVs in rallying is that at the current tech level they are not competitive at all and they won't be in forseenable future. The only way to make them competitive is artificially making other existing rally cars slow. That of course won't happen and I am sure people in Renault know that.

* Here: https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?43865-FIA-Rally-Working-Group-the-future-of-WRC-and-the-rally-sport&p=1344517&viewfull=1#post1344517

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Manufacturers have all the power, without them the WRC is dead. They clearly wont or cant accept the proposed changes either financially or in the timeframe.

I see the only solution to getting more cars at the top level being more deals like has been done for Sesks, with WRC Promoter giving some financial support.

This seems to be the way...

"The WRC Promoter is funding Sesks’ drives in the Ford Puma. According to WRC Promoter’s event director Simon Larkin, Sesks’s contract was a breakthrough.

“It’s part of our new commitment to invest in drivers to bridge the gap between Rally2 and Rally1, and also to have more Rally1 cars out there,” Larkin explains.

“I think this is exciting news, and it’s the first of what we believe will be quite a few announcements for 2024,” Larkin promises.

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-principal-announces-major-news-this-will-be-the-first-of-quite-a-few-announcements/

[Jarek Z]

I seriously doubt that Renault group will ever even consider of joining WRC. They never were serious about that championship. Those lower classes doesn't count as nobody care past Rally2.

There is more brands with herritage in rallying like Citroen, Peugeot, Proton, Lancia, Audi, Mitsubishi, Subaru... we could say even Skoda is now building herritage with that Rally2 killer. But Renault, not them. They simply don't care.

I think you need a lesson in history. How can you compare Renault's and Skoda's heritage in rallying with Proton? :)

I love Renault rally cars:
https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/img/Renault-5-Turbo-Tour-de-Corse-68179.html
https://www.wrcwings.tech/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ragnotti-thimonier-renault-11-turbo-portugal-1987-2nd.jpg
https://klassikauto.pl/renault-11-turbo-na-trasach-motul-hrsmp/
https://www-dirtfish.imgix.net/2021/02/960429TdC-Ragnotti-04-.jpg?fit=crop&fm=pjpg&h=500&ixlib=php-3.3.1&q=70&rect=0%2C1165%2C3544%2C1107&w=1600&wpsize=panorama

And Skoda? Building herritage? Didn't they celebrate 100 years in motorsport not so long ago? :)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93207294@N04/50779857281

[becher]

off course i couldnt find the link today, but renault brought a "racing version" of the R5 3E during its release and literally said they talked to fia about rallying that car but 'evs were still not on the table' in wrc's mind. i swear something along these lines happened but i cant find. maybe later on my notebook. i found this one, but this is not the one i've read. https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/renault-pushing-fia-for-electric-rallying-by-2025/
based on some talks from that time i got my suggestion of having rally2 as top class but only for privateers and constumers, factory teams must run hydrogen, hybrid or electric rally2s (bop)

There was talk like that yes but that was pure big mouth marketing. It's easy making claims like that in the current automotive environment, yet those claims can be based on a pipe dream fantasy. Even if EV's would be allowed and the championship dumbed down to the according level, I highly doubt they would join and make their talk reality.

[Eli]

To add some fuel to the fire: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/stellantis-motorsport-chief-gives-verdict-on-wrc-future-vision/10605045/

But seriously speaking, like many have said here, focus on getting the 2027 regulations right and we might (after what would be 10 years) get another manufacturer involved.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

More from Latvala...

https://rallyjournal.com/now-thats-a-lot-of-content-jari-matti-latvala-passionately-speaks-out/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

And Ogier says a detuned Rally1 will still be spectacular and a benefit if it's cheaper to bring more drivers.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/detuned-rally1-cars-not-the-end-of-the-world-for-ogier/

[TypeR]

If a manu team so called ,,principal'' worries about that ,,home-made'' cars would be faster than works-team cars, then maybe look in the mirror..

There are fast wrc2 drivers, who can't get close enough to top drivers.. with same cars.

They are just in a comfort zones and maybe afraid that citroen or skoda would knock on the door with new regs..

[WRCStan]

They are just in a comfort zones and maybe afraid that citroen or skoda would knock on the door with new regs..

He's probably also taking into account the extra zeros they sink into the series which Citroen and Skoda make buck from.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I dont believe Rally1 Detuned or Rally2 Plus will ever happen and compete with each other.

Until 2027, the compromise has to be cheaper access to the Rally1 cars to enable more cars & (local) drivers in the WRC1 top level.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Not sure if posted here before, Evan's test prior to Croatia with footage of the Rally1 Yaris in 2025-spec...

https://youtu.be/ALLO7rds-yI?si=FRdZ5LDkRZcxMPOV

[Morte66]

Not sure if posted here before, Evan's test prior to Croatia with footage of the Rally1 Yaris in 2025-spec...

https://youtu.be/ALLO7rds-yI?si=FRdZ5LDkRZcxMPOV

I watched that without reading your description and thought "it seems a bit restrained, not quite as savage as it might be". Then I read about the "2025 spec" and thought "oh".

I find this whole 2025 question depressing because my head says "Just go to WRC2 because the economics work" and my heart wants very fast cars like the current R1 which are thrilling to watch.

Perhaps simpler cars with more power might be a way to reconcile "spectacular" with "cheaper" -- 2-litre turbos without the hybrids, torque vectoring, big aero, complex gearboxes and so on. But that would be a 2027 thing, not a 2025 thing.

No easy answer to this.

[becher]

I watched that without reading your description and thought "it seems a bit restrained, not quite as savage as it might be". Then I read about the "2025 spec" and thought "oh".

I find this whole 2025 question depressing because my head says "Just go to WRC2 because the economics work" and my heart wants very fast cars like the current R1 which are thrilling to watch.

Perhaps simpler cars with more power might be a way to reconcile "spectacular" with "cheaper" -- 2-litre turbos without the hybrids, torque vectoring, big aero, complex gearboxes and so on. But that would be a 2027 thing, not a 2025 thing.

No easy answer to this.

You can hardly go simpler than current Rally1 in most of the mentioned areas. Sure the engines could be based on a roadcar block and the aero could be made even smaller (it's already pretty simple/lazy) but other than that, the cars don't have overly fancy front and rear differentials, no center differentials, simple gearbox and form what I've heard very Rally2 like suspension components.

Where could costs been saved? Who knows.

[Mirek]

The stock-based engine is becoming a disadvantage of Rally2 not an advantage. Less and less stock units are suitable for racing use and I'm quite sure that no other manufactruer will build a special stock car for turning it into a Rally2 like Toyota did.

[TypeR]

So WRC and WRC2 are done.
Last few cars will race till it's end and then good night.

No other suggestions needed.


E: about Toyota... Latvala has complaining for many years, but they are the only ones publicly testing new cars and new regulations..

They were already testing a totallly new wrc car and then suddenly cancelled it..
Most likely it would have been even better than Polo WRC had been..

Aaaand now we are talking about just taking this HY system out and slower the cars..
Wonderful idea from the Manus.. just afraid of new teams/drivers.

[Mirek]

Aaaand now we are talking about just taking this HY system out and slower the cars..
Wonderful idea from the Manus.. just afraid of new teams/drivers.

Not only. It is WAY cheaper to run the current cars than developing new ones. It's normal that they don't want to develop something new. On the other hand without that no new manufacturers will join...

[WRCStan]

Aaaand now we are talking about just taking this HY system out and slower the cars..
Wonderful idea from the Manus.. just afraid of new teams/drivers.

That isn't the Manus idea nor is it to attract new ones, what do you mean?

[NaBUru38]

Not only. It is WAY cheaper to run the current cars than developing new ones. It's normal that they don't want to develop something new. On the other hand without that no new manufacturers will join...
Cheaper for manufacturers, but there won't be any privateers.

Rally2-based regulations are a must to draw more entries.

[saco0o]

cheaper for manufacturers, but there won't be any privateers.


period

[WRCStan]

Cheaper for manufacturers, but there won't be any privateers.

Rally2-based regulations are a must to draw more entries.

There's already a Rally2-based regulation for privateers. No cause for concern there.

[bluuford]

For me it sound reasonable to remove Hybrid from the car in terms of cost saving. If I am not mistaken, one unit is ca 15% of the total car cost. And in most of the rallies, more than one unit is used + charging infrastructure + support engineer from Compaq Dynamics, + etc. Next reasonable step would be likely prohibiting carbon use in the parts that get destroyed most frequently (starting from bumpers, door sills, front fins, etc. Maybe a few other things in lower part of the car. You loose the weight with hybrid, gain a bit with cheaper plastics, loose a bit of power. With these rather simple solutions you can reduce car price and running costs quite significantly :)

[Mirek]

Cheaper for manufacturers, but there won't be any privateers.

Rally2-based regulations are a must to draw more entries.

Rally2 based regulations would only make Rally2 a lot more expensive, less equal and less reliable. It is not a solution but a quick fix to WRC which would do more harm than good in a long run.

It will not happen.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For me it sound reasonable to remove Hybrid from the car in terms of cost saving. If I am not mistaken, one unit is ca 15% of the total car cost. And in most of the rallies, more than one unit is used + charging infrastructure + support engineer from Compaq Dynamics, + etc.

They have got a deal done for Sesks to drive a Rally1 car and with hybrid power on the 2nd event. This should happen for more 'locals' on other WRC rounds as promised.

Removing the hybrid system isnt right and will spoil the cars for it was designed for from scratch. Plus Hyundai and Ford said hybrid was the only way they would enter WRC to promote this in their road cars.

[WRCStan]

They have got a deal done for Sesks to drive a Rally1 car and with hybrid power on the 2nd event. This should happen for more 'locals' on other WRC rounds as promised.

Removing the hybrid system isnt right and will spoil the cars for it was designed for from scratch. Plus Hyundai and Ford said hybrid was the only way they would enter WRC to promote this in their road cars.

It didn't sound right to me either, however, before 2022 I remember discussing here the deployment strategies and mapping etc, how it could become a tactical thing, but obviously it never was. If it gets mentioned it's either X has got no hybrid or X hybrid isn't working properly. It's impressive to see them off the start line on tarmac but I think I'll live happily without it. More concerning, Wheatley (I think) said the reduced weight from removing the unit justifies the reduction in engine power to retain the same kg/hp, but in my maths that doesn't add up. They will be slower, that's wrong.

Let me ask about Ford though, where do they ever promote WRC activity or technology in their road cars (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wrc%20site%3Aford.co.uk)? These were just empty words to sell the hybrid Rally1 to fans when it was the FIA's idea.

[saco0o]

There's already a Rally2-based regulation for privateers. No cause for concern there.

nope. its a world championship. the biggest after formula 1. it CANNOT keep being a series with 7 cars on the top class, whatever it takes. rallycross has been having the same problem. they couldnt even put out a 5 race calendar for 2024 because the tracks dont want the championship and the fans dont want to watch. wrc cannot fall into the same black hole

[WRCStan]

nope. its a world championship. the biggest after formula 1. it CANNOT keep being a series with 7 cars on the top class, whatever it takes. rallycross has been having the same problem. they couldnt even put out a 5 race calendar for 2024 because the tracks dont want the championship and the fans dont want to watch. wrc cannot fall into the same black hole

WRX is not a manufacturer series, WRC is not a privateer/teams series, they shouldn't be compared. Privateers and teams aren't travelling the globe as WRX shows, so why suggest privateers are the answer for WRC? Without manufacturer investment in WRC, the promoter has to step in and these working group decisions show they still choose a Rally1 top tier with the fewer cars.

WRC2 already exists and Rally2 is very popular to the point of oversubscription on European events, but it cannot sustain the series itself, nor multiple events for much of the participants. Why do people expect making either it or something indistinguishable from it as the 'main class' will a) attract privateers to compete globally full time when they weren't already, and b) save the series?

[Mirek]

WRX is not a manufacturer series, WRC is not a privateer/teams series, they shouldn't be compared. Privateers and teams aren't travelling the globe as WRX shows, so why suggest privateers are the answer for WRC? Without manufacturer investment in WRC, the promoter has to step in and these working group decisions show they still choose a Rally1 top tier with the fewer cars.

WRC2 already exists and Rally2 is very popular to the point of oversubscription on European events, but it cannot sustain the series itself, nor multiple events for much of the participants. Why do people expect making either it or something indistinguishable from it as the 'main class' will a) attract privateers to compete globally full time when they weren't already, and b) save the series?

The main thing is that a global series like WRC can not live without manufacturer's money and big sponsors bound to them. Privateers can't fund the series as it is. That is simply impossible.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Let me ask about Ford though, where do they ever promote WRC activity or technology in their road cars (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wrc%20site%3Aford.co.uk)? These were just empty words to sell the hybrid Rally1 to fans when it was the FIA's idea.

You cant expect Ford to accept ditching the hybrid early.

Ford are killing all their ICE road cars fast and going for EV only. Plus they are the only ones with Eco-Boost HYBRID plastered on their WRC Rally1 car.

[WRCStan]

You cant expect Ford to accept ditching the hybrid early.

Ford are killing all their ICE road cars fast and going for EV only. Plus they are the only ones with Eco-Boost HYBRID plastered on their WRC Rally1 car.

I'd just like to see something official, I can't see any evidence of Ford the consumer car maker/seller giving much of a shiny shit what powers a Rally1, or even WRC in general. There's nothing except the pressers M-Sport kick out. Back to the point of my question - they certainly are not relating WRC technology to road car technology.

M-Sport are good customers of Ford through Rally2-5, would they jeopardise that loyalty for the next two seasons? Nah.

I can understand M-Sport not wanting to rid hybrid and Ford backing that positioning if pressed, but that's for different reasons.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

TBH it's pretty amazing that Ford is even still supporting a WRC Team at all given how they've not made a new RS road car since the Mk3 Focus in 2016.

And even with that car it wasnt used to promote WRC, or vice versa, as the Fiesta was the rally car used.

This was the last Ford rally-reference advert I remember...

https://www.focusstoc.com/attachments/img_20191111_133945-jpg.874225/

[saco0o]

WRX is not a manufacturer series, WRC is not a privateer/teams series, they shouldn't be compared. Privateers and teams aren't travelling the globe as WRX shows, so why suggest privateers are the answer for WRC? Without manufacturer investment in WRC, the promoter has to step in and these working group decisions show they still choose a Rally1 top tier with the fewer cars.

WRC2 already exists and Rally2 is very popular to the point of oversubscription on European events, but it cannot sustain the series itself, nor multiple events for much of the participants. Why do people expect making either it or something indistinguishable from it as the 'main class' will a) attract privateers to compete globally full time when they weren't already, and b) save the series?

fine, but manufacturers are not interested in wrc. to the point where the promoter is paying for an extra msport car in order to increase the field. do you think this is healthy?
my comparision with wrx is because they went full evs. there where only 7-8 cars. people DONT WANT TO WATCH a championhsip with 7 cars, so they start complaining, then they stop paying for the rallytv app, then they stop watching, then one event promoter stop paying to host the round because "no one is coming or watching", then its a snowball.
wrx got to this point where most of the event/track promoters gave up.
wrc is on the "fans stop paying for the rallytv app".
its a really quick snowball.
wtcc died but tcr is doing really well. rallycross is allowing ice cars again so theres good expectations again, cuz more privateers may be able to compete (unless they all gave up for good, because - as i said - it is a quick snowball)
wrc is not doing well. they cannot keep rally1 hybrid cars because manufacturers WANT TO LOOK MORE CLEAN on their P.R. its not even their own hybrid unit, its all a spec thing. this is all a joke

edit: im not angry, sorry if sounded like that. im just honestly worried manufacturers' egos are ruinning wrc. they want to "look green" instead of working to improve the sport. fine, its not their job to improve a sport, but then its the sport's job to "not let manufacturers' egos' ruin the championship". 8 cars is bad and the hybrid unit is SPEC, so theres no developmente or anything. its just a sticker for them to post on instagram.

[WRCStan]

fine, but manufacturers are not interested in wrc.

I know. This form of rallying is waaay passed it's heyday for manufactures but the ordinary human loves it still, the promoter is still in business making money - for the non-profit FIA lol. It's a privateer sport but a manufacturer series. I'm probably the only person on this forum who would entertain the notion that a WRC backed by manufacturers could look radically different in future and that speed might not be the sole factor, while speed rallying continues privately - ERC/regions could be the highest form. It's unlikely...


to the point where the promoter is paying for an extra msport car in order to increase the field. do you think this is healthy?

It's healthier than death. The promoter has been backing entries since it was installed 15 years ago and it's blurred how much they put in and how much the 3rd/4th manus do. There's always been a middle ground and deals struck. I know I said without manufacturers the series dies, but also without the promoter support the series would have probably died in appeal. That support was propelled chiefly by the other manus and sponsors. With zero manus though it could go full FIA spec car, unbadged if they had decent sponsors, as radically odd as WRC would then be. But it would probably die like WRX you describe IMO, subpar to ERC.


im not angry, sorry if sounded like that.

No worries, it's a concern that gave 105 pages in this thread and many more. Fascinates me. Perhaps WRC dies, perhaps just the appeal dies... I'm not sure there's an easy answer for us to say they should have done this or that. Likelihood is, deals will be struck and things don't look too different to us the next few years, only to the moneymen at the non-profit.

[macebig]

fine, but manufacturers are not interested in wrc. to the point where the promoter is paying for an extra msport car in order to increase the field. do you think this is healthy?
my comparision with wrx is because they went full evs. there where only 7-8 cars. people DONT WANT TO WATCH a championhsip with 7 cars, so they start complaining, then they stop paying for the rallytv app, then they stop watching, then one event promoter stop paying to host the round because "no one is coming or watching", then its a snowball.
wrx got to this point where most of the event/track promoters gave up.
wrc is on the "fans stop paying for the rallytv app".
its a really quick snowball.
wtcc died but tcr is doing really well. rallycross is allowing ice cars again so theres good expectations again, cuz more privateers may be able to compete (unless they all gave up for good, because - as i said - it is a quick snowball)
wrc is not doing well. they cannot keep rally1 hybrid cars because manufacturers WANT TO LOOK MORE CLEAN on their P.R. its not even their own hybrid unit, its all a spec thing. this is all a joke

edit: im not angry, sorry if sounded like that. im just honestly worried manufacturers' egos are ruinning wrc. they want to "look green" instead of working to improve the sport. fine, its not their job to improve a sport, but then its the sport's job to "not let manufacturers' egos' ruin the championship". 8 cars is bad and the hybrid unit is SPEC, so theres no developmente or anything. its just a sticker for them to post on instagram.

You're a 100% right. FIA should rattle the manufacturer's cage. Take the compromise or go. Rally 1s are dead in the water. If manufacturers don't agree, make Rally 2s as they are now the top category for 3 years. Work a sustainable package (max $250k cost) for 2028 onwards.

[saco0o]

hmmmmm bad news
https://youtu.be/ZkXQg6NUmKE?si=V-zNMHpy3xtO1xFX
we know wrc wanta to have an electric class as soon as possible and "the future is electric" bla bla bla. and even being super open minded about that (im all for all eva and hybrids for public transportation and autonomous shared vans-ride) i still think electric racing cars will never excite people. i feel like the motocross scene is reeeaally close from being overloaded with e-bikes in the next 2 years, but im not so sure they will keep the audience this time.

[djip]

im just honestly worried manufacturers' egos are ruinning wrc.
Manufacturers always have a big ego for sure, look at Huyndai's massive service park which is totally irrelvant to rallying in general and to the state where it is in particular.
But don't you think they are also happy with only 8 cars running in the top category ? Combined to super-rally, tis is a guaranteed result at every event. Cyril's comments made it very clear ("« Nous ne pouvons pas nous permettre de rester dans un sport où nous serions des faire-valoir » = We cannot stay in a sport where we would be stooges). This is clearly fear of looking red-faced on monday morning ...
The way manus are taking FIA hostages is almost cartel-like behavior. XWhatever te FIA comes up with, I truly hope they will have the balls to stick with it. We may loose someone enroute but we have to look at the long terms, not next year. If there are 2-3 years of transition with less manus, so be it. We'll have at least WRC2 to cheer for.

[Eli]

Manufacturers always have a big ego for sure, look at Huyndai's massive service park which is totally irrelvant to rallying in general and to the state where it is in particular.
But don't you think they are also happy with only 8 cars running in the top category ? Combined to super-rally, tis is a guaranteed result at every event. Cyril's comments made it very clear ("« Nous ne pouvons pas nous permettre de rester dans un sport où nous serions des faire-valoir » = We cannot stay in a sport where we would be stooges). This is clearly fear of looking red-faced on monday morning ...
The way manus are taking FIA hostages is almost cartel-like behavior. XWhatever te FIA comes up with, I truly hope they will have the balls to stick with it. We may loose someone enroute but we have to look at the long terms, not next year. If there are 2-3 years of transition with less manus, so be it. We'll have at least WRC2 to cheer for.

If we lose Hyundai but get Lancia & Skoda, it’s something I think we can live with but if we just lose Hyundai….the FIA has got to find a balance.

[WRCStan]

You're a 100% right. FIA should rattle the manufacturer's cage. Take the compromise or go. Rally 1s are dead in the water. If manufacturers don't agree, make Rally 2s as they are now the top category for 3 years. Work a sustainable package (max $250k cost) for 2028 onwards.


The way manus are taking FIA hostages is almost cartel-like behavior. XWhatever te FIA comes up with, I truly hope they will have the balls to stick with it. We may loose someone enroute but we have to look at the long terms, not next year. If there are 2-3 years of transition with less manus, so be it. We'll have at least WRC2 to cheer for.

:rolleyes:

[saco0o]

damn. i read on facebook: ''rally fans are still discussing this? fia has decided already. its rally1 without the hybrids, less aero AND rally2+ with the kit. its decided. they are just negotiating if the kits can be build independetly or if its going to be spec"
i mean, if you think, they even posted on instagram the decisions 2 months ago or so, so arent we beating a dead horse? haha this post got me wondering haha
(oh, and the ev class in case skoda wants to run this new thing
https://youtu.be/ZkXQg6NUmKE?si=V-zNMHpy3xtO1xFX and maybe hyundai too, since they are shifting to evs only, right?)

[djip]

Cyril's latest comment is pure blackmailing to the FIA ...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-gambles-on-future-wrc-rules/

[Mirek]

damn. i read on facebook: ''rally fans are still discussing this? fia has decided already. its rally1 without the hybrids, less aero AND rally2+ with the kit. its decided. they are just negotiating if the kits can be build independetly or if its going to be spec"
i mean, if you think, they even posted on instagram the decisions 2 months ago or so, so arent we beating a dead horse? haha this post got me wondering haha
(oh, and the ev class in case skoda wants to run this new thing
https://youtu.be/ZkXQg6NUmKE?si=V-zNMHpy3xtO1xFX and maybe hyundai too, since they are shifting to evs only, right?)

Nice example of how random social media posts drive an opinion while being completely wrong. The decision is about to be taken on June 11th at the next WMSC meeting. Nothing has been decided yet.

[WRCStan]

Cyril's latest comment is pure blackmailing to the FIA ...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-gambles-on-future-wrc-rules/

How?

[saco0o]

How?

correct me if im wrong, but it seems like hes saying they are working with rally1 hybrid cars and if that changes, they are out.

---------------------
and i understand and agree with Mirek's point regarding random msgs on social media that i just mentioned, but cyril saying this now sounded (in my head) just like what that guy said. fia made their decision and hyundai is battling against it since that day. toyota is even testing rally1-, Latvala wants the removal of the hybrid, and msport/promoter are about to already run a "rally1-" car. so idk, maybe the decision is made for good? why would cyril be saying stuff like that? also tierry, evans, tanak have been souding "angry"(?) when dirtfish asks about that. idk, maybe its just inside my head

[Eli]

To me it sounds as if Hyundai has already made the decision and if next year’s cars are anything different to what we’ve had since 2022 they are out, end of story.

[WRCStan]

correct me if im wrong, but it seems like hes saying they are working with rally1 hybrid cars and if that changes, they are out.

---------------------
and i understand and agree with Mirek's point regarding random msgs on social media that i just mentioned, but cyril saying this now sounded (in my head) just like what that guy said. fia made their decision and hyundai is battling against it since that day. toyota is even testing rally1-, Latvala wants the removal of the hybrid, and msport/promoter are about to already run a "rally1-" car. so idk, maybe the decision is made for good? why would cyril be saying stuff like that? also tierry, evans, tanak have been souding "angry"(?) when dirtfish asks about that. idk, maybe its just inside my head


To me it sounds as if Hyundai has already made the decision and if next year’s cars are anything different to what we’ve had since 2022 they are out, end of story.

I think everything is decided too but these details have to stay private. Maybe Hyundai are playing a pr game, making it look like FIA are giving them reason to quit when the FIA aren't going to speak truths, but that's not blackmail. There's nothing Hyundai want FIA to do.

[Tauri_J]

Cyril's latest comment is pure blackmailing to the FIA ...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-gambles-on-future-wrc-rules/

No, it just shows decision has come from higher up to pull the plug if this scenario plays out.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Repeated humiliations by their regional arch-rival Toyota wont be going down well at Hyundai HQ.

They certainly wont be throwing any more good money after bad if the Regs are changed. They can see Toyota would have a Rally1 Minus car ready if necessary and Hyundai would be in for another beating.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Hyundai will have the opportunity to deliver 50% of its new-for-2025 car after a deal was struck with rival manufacturers allowing the Korean manufacturer to use two years’ worth of homologation jokers next season.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-granted-joker-dispensation-for-2025/

It sounds like they were threatening to quit WRC if they didnt get this deal. But strange to announce it when the Regs for 2025 still aren't decided.

[WRCStan]

Would they have needed permission to build the 100% new car?

[macebig]

Hyundai behaving like spoilt children once again (see WTCR Nurburgring 2020...) and getting away with it... Disappointing...

[EstWRC]

Hyundai will have the opportunity to deliver 50% of its new-for-2025 car after a deal was struck with rival manufacturers allowing the Korean manufacturer to use two years’ worth of homologation jokers next season.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/hyundai-granted-joker-dispensation-for-2025/

It sounds like they were threatening to quit WRC if they didnt get this deal. But strange to announce it when the Regs for 2025 still aren't decided.

It doesn’t sound like that but Rich literally confirms it

“I totally understand that perspective, but at the same time if we actively push back on everything and force a manufacturer to leave [WRC] because they don’t feel like they’ve got a chance, then what’s better?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Would they have needed permission to build the 100% new car?

Not if the Regs didnt change, they'd just need to get it homologated under the existing Regs.

[TypeR]

Mind games keep going..


ABITEBOUL: We won't spend ONE euro testing a Rally1 alternative

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-we-wont-spend-one-euro-testing-a-rally1-alternative

And if it happens, 2022 repeats and they start the season with a flinstones car once again :D

[rallyfiend]

Mind games keep going..



https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/abiteboul-we-wont-spend-one-euro-testing-a-rally1-alternative

And if it happens, 2022 repeats and they start the season with a flinstones car once again :D

I suspect that if FIA continues down this route, then Hyundai won't need to develop a new car, because they won't be in the WRC>

It really is a stupid strategy of the FIA to spend more money on these cars when it's clear it won't result in any more manufacturers, and will likely mean less cars because they'll have wasted money redeveloping current cars.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I suspect that if FIA continues down this route, then Hyundai won't need to develop a new car, because they won't be in the WRC>

.

Plus the possible WDC Neuville will retire.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But if they do stay, I'll be pretty used to it as I've been driving it in DR 2.0 ! ;)

https://i.imgur.com/JlWpNtM.jpg

[er88]

All 3 manufacturers are pushing for things to remain until the end of the 26. Not even the goons running the WRC will be stupid enough to push them out by forcing new regs for 25

[WRCStan]

Not if the Regs didnt change, they'd just need to get it homologated under the existing Regs.

Yes makes sense. Just the regs are changing but technically no new cars confused me.

[djip]

At the same time, I find Cyril's attitude pretty childish ... In no sport are the players making the rules.

I understand that Huyndai may retire if changes are called for. However if this is really in the balance, then it is only a matter of time before they call it a day. Given all the critics, I would very much doubt they would stick around when the new regs kick in ...

Long story short, if I would be the FIA i would not listen to such bully arguments and stick to what I believe is best for the sport (whatever it is). My five cents : As someone suggested, keep Rally1 cars as is until the end of the homogation cycle, with no hybrids and benefit from the weight saving by replacing all the expensive carbon aero kits. This may cut costs enough to bring in private cars. Don' touch Rally2 which is very healthy as is. And "force" manus to enter 4 cars each, including one for young guns.

[saco0o]

mate you cannot FORCE Msport to run 4 cars. they have no money.
and cyril is from f1 and in f1 everyone is a crying baby.

[Backa]

In no sport are the players making the rules.

Of course they have some power. Lockouts happened in NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL many times. In F1, drivers boycotts led by Jackie Stewarts end with 1969 Belgian Grand Prix being cancelled and 1970 German Grand Prix being organized in different location.


Long story short, if I would be the FIA i would not listen to such bully arguments and stick to what I believe is best for the sport (whatever it is).

What if taking care of that small amount of participants still interesting to be engaged in this sport is something "best for the sport" right now?

Not considering Toyota's, Hyundai's and Ford's/M-Sport's opinion looks more like power-driven ego than something that could actually help sport thrive.

How would you "force" manus if there will be no manus?

[WRCStan]

At the same time, I find Cyril's attitude pretty childish ... In no sport are the players making the rules.

It's a commercial series, not the rules of a sport.

Comparable and in today's Premier League news: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4n1ndjd7nmo

[skarderud]

I suspect that if FIA continues down this route, then Hyundai won't need to develop a new car, because they won't be in the WRC>

It really is a stupid strategy of the FIA to spend more money on these cars when it's clear it won't result in any more manufacturers, and will likely mean less cars because they'll have wasted money redeveloping current cars.Of course Hyundai will pull the plug, Mikkelsen is in the team...


Jokes aside, everyone is agreed that todays rules not working, so something has to be changed.
New rules has to make shure new teams shows up, if its official manufacturers or private teams with support is not that important.
Easier for a manufacturer to support a semi-official team than a full works team i think.
M-sport is one of them, the history of WRC has lots of these teams, prodrive/subaru as a good example thats its possible.



Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[denkimi]

All we need is to get rid of the homologation bullshit so we can have privateers building cars.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC team boss delivers scathing critique – “It will be a pretty crap car”

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-boss-delivers-scathing-critique-it-will-be-a-pretty-crap-car/

[EstWRC]

WRC team boss delivers scathing critique – “It will be a pretty crap car”

https://rallyjournal.com/wrc-team-boss-delivers-scathing-critique-it-will-be-a-pretty-crap-car/

Article taken from Motorsport.com

Which this site does all the time (not only Motorsport.com) and that’s why I don’t like them at all

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Credit to Motorsport.com

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrcs-2025-rule-change-will-create-pretty-crap-car-hyundais-abiteboul/10611418/

[saco0o]

jezz, cyril has gone full f1 mode with all that crying. hes worst than us here, honestly lol.
f* hyundai, i cant even cheer for tierry to lose that virginity (title) anymore because of this guy.

[AnttiL]

Article taken from Motorsport.com

Which this site does all the time (not only Motorsport.com) and that’s why I don’t like them at all

I was sent a screenshot and had to log back in to clear out this nonsense.

This interview stems out from a media event in Rally Portugal where multiple journalists are standing with their recording devices. Tom Howard (Motorsport.com) and Aki Hietavala (Rallyjournal) both had recorded the same answer from Cyril and both can write a story about it. RallyJournal or Rallit.fi might cite sometimes other publications but when they do, it's credited and linked correctly. They don't "take articles" from other publications, it's written in their own words. And there's also original content written, and stuff that's coming from non-English publications so there's a fair amount of value to cite them into the English speaking media.

Carry on.

[EstWRC]

Nonsense indeed when you even yourself admit they cite other publications…

I wish them well but at the moment I don’t see them adding any value writing the same articles but this is my problem

Anyway. Off topic

About Cyril’s whining, there is always one in every series. Toto Wolff being the one in formula 1, especially couple of years ago when he wanted a changes when the cars were proposing a lot, especially his team cars.

Cyril been the most vocal about it but don’t forget that all 3 teams wrote to FIA not to change the regulations for next year.

I don’t mind his whining and I actually agree with him. New regulations for 2025 adoesn’t make sense and too little time to prepare

[deephouse]

I don't even know why they hire him. He is not from this sport universe. I'm sure there is plenty more people out there capable of running such big team.

[deephouse]

Like I said before... Now I have a feeling he is more and more keen to actualy lead the team out of this sport anyway. We all know where his true passion lays. I just hope that they stay here as long as new teams do actualy enter. So the sport will not be harmed more than it is right now. Then we don't care about them, if they are gone.

[Backa]

He is manager of team, not an owner. FIA wants changes that are too rushed for team like Hyundai who was preparing for different timelines. I would say he is doing good job so far and you're way too dramatic about him.

[WRCStan]

jezz, cyril has gone full f1 mode with all that crying. hes worst than us here, honestly lol.
f* hyundai, i cant even cheer for tierry to lose that virginity (title) anymore because of this guy.

Never seen it, is this what would make an episode of a WRC Drive to Survive?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I had this reply from Rally Journal re sources and credits:

Thank you for your feedback.

We always cite the original source if the article is borrowed from another media.

If you are referring to the article published this morning about Cyril Abiteboul's comments, then we have acted correctly. Our reporter was present at the same interview that Autosport and Motorsport.com had previously written their articles on. This time it happened that Autosport and Motorsport.com had published Tom Howard's article earlier.

Sometimes, it has occurred that we have published an article first from a similar interview, and later Autosport/Motorsport.com or DirtFish have published their own pieces. This is quite normal practice.

I must also mention that we are very good acquaintances with Tom Howard from Autosport/Motorsport.com, as we, like him, attend all the rounds of the World Rally Championship. Just recently in Portugal, he came up to me and thanked us for correctly citing the original source when it was his own piece.

I know that many smaller sites fail to mention their sources. We do not operate like that. However, it's good to receive feedback on this matter, so we can clarify things as well.

Best regards,

Toni Heinonen / RallyJournal.com / Rallit.fi

[saco0o]

Never seen it, is this what would make an episode of a WRC Drive to Survive?

haha probably, i dont watch that either. but it sure looks like its 50% about getting the team principals to complain about everything haha
f1 have boys, wrc have men. cyril is a boy.

[AndyRAC]

haha probably, i dont watch that either. but it sure looks like its 50% about getting the team principals to complain about everything haha
f1 have boys, wrc have men. cyril is a boy.

Really?? I'm no fan of F1, but too many here have a giant chip on their shoulder about F1......Compared to the WRC, it's actually a well run series....unlike the WRC which is extremely amateur a lot of the time.

[saco0o]

Really?? I'm no fan of F1, but too many here have a giant chip on their shoulder about F1......Compared to the WRC, it's actually a well run series....unlike the WRC which is extremely amateur a lot of the time.

oh, i was talking about the netflix series. i might have seen some 'clips' on reddit eventually, but nothing more.
regarding the actual racing, i do watch some f1 rounds. imola i watched the first 4 laps, then i went do some stuff then i came back with 10 laps to go and fortunatelly thats just where things got interesting. happy to see mclaren improving.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Abiteboul says new Regs aren't what is needed but reforms of the WRC media, rally formats and service parks...

https://rallyjournal.com/hyundai-wrc-team-boss-delivers-significant-statement-not-about-being-behind-closed-doors/

[er88]

Current regs/cars to remain until end of 26. No surprise.
Pts system will be tweaked, so top 2 or 3 cars can score points for a manufacturer, instead of manufacturers having to nominate 3drivers

[becher]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally1-to-remain-until-end-of-2026/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1OqgjBgvzHAr_vKcVrJkTi KFVKFWOmD_QQnB5Aw6dYHpE_ShQKAYptbjU_aem_AZbf9dDt26 ivvQuVj_RCRHuifZn7uWzi2A2SJYqNQPR3psidffu-oeAJzRxKbJUEJC2TCI1-OlivIiGbw0ZGPRFL

Dirtfish about it.

[saco0o]

great. while in ERC we get news like "PETTER SOLBERG TO RUN A POLO IN SWEDEN", here we get the news that we are having two more years of elfyn and taka doing nothing, seb and kalle doing some rounds and winning, ott having problems, tierry probably winning 24-25-26 because the others kinda sucks, lappi, sordo, mikkelsen having a run (but thats it) msport having bad pay drivers. grreeeeeeeeeeat for wrc!
ranting like an old fella, because i am! lol

[rallyfiend]

great. while in ERC we get news like "PETTER SOLBERG TO RUN A POLO IN SWEDEN", here we get the news that we are having two more years of elfyn and taka doing nothing, seb and kalle doing some rounds and winning, ott having problems, tierry probably winning 24-25-26 because the others kinda sucks, lappi, sordo, mikkelsen having a run (but thats it) msport having bad pay drivers. grreeeeeeeeeeat for wrc!
ranting like an old fella, because i am! lol

How would any of the proposed changes from this silly working group have changed ANY of that in 2025 or 2026?

[saco0o]

How would any of the proposed changes from this silly working group have changed ANY of that in 2025 or 2026?

"rally2 for 2025 and 2026"

[WRCStan]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally1-to-remain-until-end-of-2026/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1OqgjBgvzHAr_vKcVrJkTi KFVKFWOmD_QQnB5Aw6dYHpE_ShQKAYptbjU_aem_AZbf9dDt26 ivvQuVj_RCRHuifZn7uWzi2A2SJYqNQPR3psidffu-oeAJzRxKbJUEJC2TCI1-OlivIiGbw0ZGPRFL

Dirtfish about it.

That must have been difficult for DE to write. He was adamant Rally2s were the future and what's best.

110 pages of chat for nothing but it's been a pleasure, thanks guys.

[Mirek]

"rally2 for 2025 and 2026"

That would be a disaster for regional and national championships ERC included. There's a reason why nobody voted for that.

[Mirek]

great. while in ERC we get news like "PETTER SOLBERG TO RUN A POLO IN SWEDEN", here we get the news that we are having two more years of elfyn and taka doing nothing, seb and kalle doing some rounds and winning, ott having problems, tierry probably winning 24-25-26 because the others kinda sucks, lappi, sordo, mikkelsen having a run (but thats it) msport having bad pay drivers. grreeeeeeeeeeat for wrc!
ranting like an old fella, because i am! lol

How is a one-shot drive of an old retired driver supposed to make the championship more exciting?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

If confirmed it's no surprise whatsoever as the current Manufacturers have all the power.

For them, finding other ways of getting extra Rally1 cars running was way more attractive than changing the Regs mid-cycle.

And let's be fair, any extra Rally1 cars aren't likely to be super-competitive as there just aren't the drivers to compete with the current elite drivers anyway.

[Eli]

That must have been difficult for DE to write. He was adamant Rally2s were the future and what's best.

110 pages of chat for nothing but it's been a pleasure, thanks guys.

We can change the name of the thread to ‘WRC main class in 2027”.

[Mirek]

If confirmed it's no surprise whatsoever as the current Manufacturers have all the power.

For them, finding other ways of getting extra Rally1 cars running was way more attractive than changing the Regs mid-cycle.

And let's be fair, any extra Rally1 cars aren't likely to be super-competitive as there just aren't the drivers to compete with the current elite drivers anyway.

IMO any radical change without being announced at least 2 years ahead logically can not bring any new manufacturers anyway and doing a change just for the sake of change isn't a strategy.

[EstWRC]

IMO any radical change without being announced at least 2 years ahead logically can not bring any new manufacturers anyway and doing a change just for the sake of change isn't a strategy.

This!!!!

Mirek speaks pure gold here all the time.

[Eli]

IMO any radical change without being announced at least 2 years ahead logically can not bring any new manufacturers anyway and doing a change just for the sake of change isn't a strategy.

Honestly they really should be getting them 2027 regs. out before the end of this season.

[macebig]

FIA got scared dead by Hyundai. Just Ben Sulayem didn't have the guts to challenge them, so they let WRC rot and focus on F1's golden goose... They could have at least killed the hybrids and replace carbon parts with plastic to bring costs down, but no... Same old shit... For maybe 2 extra cars here or there... Disappointing... Would be funny if Hyundai still insists on jumping elsewhere, Toyota gets wooed by another F1 shot and M-Sport/Ford dilute resources into WEC/Dakar and F1...

[saco0o]

That would be a disaster for regional and national championships ERC included. There's a reason why nobody voted for that.

but it would be just a two year solution. the manufacturers would not ramp up the costs, they would more likely run costumer programs like in tcr.
but anyway, manufacturers won the battle. two more years of the same stuff, that its not exaaactly awesome right now imo

[Mirek]

but it would be just a two year solution. the manufacturers would not ramp up the costs, they would more likely run costumer programs like in tcr.
but anyway, manufacturers won the battle. two more years of the same stuff, that its not exaaactly awesome right now imo

The cost would never go back again and the damage to the regional and national championship would be permanent while the benefit for the WRC would be just temporary. R5/Rally2 worked perfectly for what it was designed and only a fool would destroy it.

[becher]

How is a one-shot drive of an old retired driver supposed to make the championship more exciting?

+10

[PLuto]

but it would be just a two year solution. the manufacturers would not ramp up the costs, they would more likely run costumer programs like in tcr.
but anyway, manufacturers won the battle. two more years of the same stuff, that its not exaaactly awesome right now imo

But in reality, NOBODY wants this solution. No Rally1 manufacturers, no Rally2 manufacturers. And mostly also no drivers. It was only that commission who presented their ideas who wanted to make changes like this...

[saco0o]

so let me get this straight:

- wrc is in a pretty shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping...
- then fia/wrc thought: "well this is bad, we need to change, even if the decisions are rough",
- everybody on the planet agreed with that.
- then after months of 'talking', meeting, fan surveys (!!), they even presented those weird concept.... they decided that nothing is going to change,
- then suddenly everybody thinks thats the right thing to do... and wrc will continue in the same shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping.

...like... wtf? why this talk even started? if "this is the obvious thing to do" the whole time? haha this is madness

[djip]

so let me get this straight:

- wrc is in a pretty shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping...
- then fia/wrc thought: "well this is bad, we need to change, even if the decisions are rough",
- everybody on the planet agreed with that.
- then after months of 'talking', meeting, fan surveys (!!), they even presented those weird concept.... they decided that nothing is going to change,
- then suddenly everybody thinks thats the right thing to do... and wrc will continue in the same shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping.

...like... wtf? why this talk even started? if "this is the obvious thing to do" the whole time? haha this is madness
Spot on ! Well at least let's hope (i) that all the "side changes discussed (promotion, different formats etc....) are implemented next year, together with a revamp of the point system and (ii) that they come up with something smart for 2027

[rallyfiend]

so let me get this straight:

- wrc is in a pretty shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping...
- then fia/wrc thought: "well this is bad, we need to change, even if the decisions are rough",
- everybody on the planet agreed with that.
- then after months of 'talking', meeting, fan surveys (!!), they even presented those weird concept.... they decided that nothing is going to change,
- then suddenly everybody thinks thats the right thing to do... and wrc will continue in the same shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping.

...like... wtf? why this talk even started? if "this is the obvious thing to do" the whole time? haha this is madness

this happened because the FIA seem to want to just look like they're in charge. This seems to be their obsession. And it means they take stupid decisions that are ill-considered, just so they can look like they know what they're doing.

It's the whole basis for conflict in F1 too...

[Eli]

Spot on ! Well at least let's hope (i) that all the "side changes discussed (promotion, different formats etc....) are implemented next year, together with a revamp of the point system and (ii) that they come up with something smart for 2027

It’s the FIA & WRC promoter we’re talking about, they came up with this confusing point scoring system, I wouldn’t be too optimistic for them doing something smart. Even something as (relatively) simple such as encouraging organisers doing (more) night time stages isn’t something they push for.

[skarderud]

How is a one-shot drive of an old retired driver supposed to make the championship more exciting?If Solberg did a one of comeback in a Rally1 car, he would drawn twice the amount of attention than all the other drivers and teams combined.
The results is secundary.

If you know slightly about how media works, you don't ask these kind of question.
Sorry.

A comeback like that is exactly what WRC needs, lots of old fans would follow WRC again, media all over the world make stories about it, he has a personality noone of the todays drivers is even close to.
He won't win anything, but thats not the point.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It’s the FIA & WRC promoter we’re talking about, they came up with this confusing point scoring system, I wouldn’t be too optimistic for them doing something smart.

Spot on. I have zero confidence in those running the sport.

Imagine when it comes to the 2027 Regs with the idea of all 'fuels' being allowed and equalised by weight. It's just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

[EstWRC]

If Solberg did a one of comeback in a Rally1 car, he would drawn twice the amount of attention than all the other drivers and teams combined.
The results is secundary.

If you know slightly about how media works, you don't ask these kind of question.
Sorry.

A comeback like that is exactly what WRC needs, lots of old fans would follow WRC again, media all over the world make stories about it, he has a personality noone of the todays drivers is even close to.
He won't win anything, but thats not the point.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

Sorry but it’s not 2003 anymore….

[skarderud]

Sorry but it’s not 2003 anymore….Jeeeezzz.

Its a PR point of wiew, not sporting.

Like or dislike Solberg, but that is plain stupid comment.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

[Backa]

A comeback like that is exactly what WRC needs, lots of old fans would follow WRC again, media all over the world make stories about it, he has a personality noone of the todays drivers is even close to.

One of comeback would spark some media attention but using this logic, old fans would just follow one round and go back to not following aftermath due to "lack of personalities".

If lack of personalities is issue of WRC, resuscitating old guys to make round or two and finish in P6 or P7 wouldn't solve it. It makes more sense to have hope in young prospects and try to encourage teams to give them WRC1 seat.

[EstWRC]

Jeeeezzz.

Its a PR point of wiew, not sporting.

Like or dislike Solberg, but that is plain stupid comment.

Sent fra min SM-S901B via Tapatalk

I like him but he isn’t as popular as in 2003 is what I meant.

As you call others comments stupid then I also call yours when you say he would draw double the attention of current drivers and teams. No way

Yeah maybe in Norway…

[focus206]

If Solberg did a one of comeback in a Rally1 car, he would drawn twice the amount of attention than all the other drivers and teams combined.
The results is secundary.


Yeah, I don't think so. In Norway, maybe...
Did you forget that Loeb, who is several times more popular than Solberg (Solberg has few funny lines on his side, but Loeb's results speak for themselves and are what made him well known), already made a return? Did that bring a huge increase of media attention to WRC in general? Not really... There were few stories and articles, but that's about it.
What REALLY brought attention is when Loeb won Monte in the Puma against Ogier, which was spectacular, but that's because it's combined with the result.
Of course I'd like to see Petter coming back for a couple of rallies, but nothing will change apart from a couple of articles. Not even if he brings a circus along, he will draw more attention than all the other drivers combined.

[WRCStan]

If you know slightly about how media works, you don't ask these kind of question.

Lol. Educate me then please. My view of how it works is that WRC and Solberg would publish press releases and tweets, previously shared under embargo with industry outlets Dirtfish, Autosport etc to rewrite for scheduled announcements. Exactly the same result any other drivers and with the same established audience reach.

"media all over the world make stories about it" You're making it sound like The Washington Post, Daily Mail, Al Jazeera or South China Morning Post would be running on it. How? Tell me please.


A comeback like that is exactly what WRC needs, lots of old fans would follow WRC again

Good lord. So rather than being relevant to current vehicles, manufacturers, sport, marketing, viewing habits... just get a one off appearance from an unlikely champion from 2 decades ago... Wow.

[saco0o]

i'd simply love to see petter doing a one-off, whatever the converage, the result etc. imagine the end stage interviews hehe. i'd love to hear his thoughta, like i did when latvala raced for toyota.
i just like different things happening,.it makes me more interested in the sport. i miss that

[saco0o]

Spot on ! Well at least let's hope (i) that all the "side changes discussed (promotion, different formats etc....) are implemented next year, together with a revamp of the point system and (ii) that they come up with something smart for 2027

i dont trust this promoter when it comes to promotion tbh. they got world rallycross in 2021 and they managed to kill the sport. tbh rallycross has so much action and close racing and strategy and jumps, its literally one of the coolest forms of racing out there, sooo easy to promote, especially because the heat races have just 3 minutes, its suuuuper "tv friendly", mega "casual fan friendly"... and they killed. they simply killed the sport. idk if their "promotion" can do anything to wrc. especially because is not "door to door" action. its days of following times on a clock. this stuff will never work in this modern era of fast pace action quick spam attention. so we are literally left with the hardcore fans and the "spirit" of rallying, which is closed roads and drivers competing. how can we have that? rally2 is the answer. such a shame wrc choose to spend 6 months talking about how they are not in a good position just to come back with "yeah, the BEST THING WE CAN THINK IS TO KEEP THE SAME SHITTY PRODUCT BUT WITH 2 MORE YOUTUBE CLIPS FOR 2025" :(

[Backa]

idk if their "promotion" can do anything to wrc. especially because is not "door to door" action. its days of following times on a clock. this stuff will never work in this modern era of fast pace action quick spam attention.

Didn't WEC has quite nice revival last few years? It's not exactly friendly series for short spam attention. This factor seems overexaggerated.

For me, whether it's rally1 or rally2 is not as important as making WRC more accessible for new fans. Even 8 rally1 cars could provide interesting battles.

Improving rally.tv experience and moving 26-minutes day highlights from Red Bull TV to official WRC youtube channel would be good step.

[Mirek]

If Solberg did a one of comeback in a Rally1 car, he would drawn twice the amount of attention than all the other drivers and teams combined.
The results is secundary.

If you know slightly about how media works, you don't ask these kind of question.
Sorry.

A comeback like that is exactly what WRC needs, lots of old fans would follow WRC again, media all over the world make stories about it, he has a personality noone of the todays drivers is even close to.
He won't win anything, but thats not the point.

Come on. Petter is nearly 50 years old. Petter driving once per season is fine attraction for fans but nothing more. It has zero impact on the championship quality and that is what the discussion was about. Also you hugely overestimate his marketing value. Old retired drivers have been running here and there since forever. That's pretty common practice.

[Mirek]

so let me get this straight:

- wrc is in a pretty shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping...
- then fia/wrc thought: "well this is bad, we need to change, even if the decisions are rough",
- everybody on the planet agreed with that.
- then after months of 'talking', meeting, fan surveys (!!), they even presented those weird concept.... they decided that nothing is going to change,
- then suddenly everybody thinks thats the right thing to do... and wrc will continue in the same shitty moment with only 6 full-time entries, with msport not having money to hire drivers, with hyundai and toyota running 3rd cars for the same guys forever, audience dropping.

...like... wtf? why this talk even started? if "this is the obvious thing to do" the whole time? haha this is madness

I react because you posted that under my and Pluto's post.

I have never changed my stance on the subject and I dare to say that it applies also to PLuto. You can easily check that. If someone has been changing their stance on the subject, you need to address them, not me.


The true madness is oversimpliffication of problems. That's what you just did and sadly that's what we see everyday in the social media all over the planet no matter what topic.

In our case it's not that there would be no need for a change. There is such need for sure. The issue is that such change has to be realistic and viable. That's the difficult part. In this case there was simply no proposal good enough to be accepted by all parties involved and meanwhile the available time run out. You may not like it but that's about all you can do about it.

[AndyRAC]

Sorry but it’s not 2003 anymore….

Solberg was a big star in rallying (and in Norway); but globally, not really. His star quality was over rated.......

The WRC even tried Rossi, Raikkonen & Kubica - and still it hardly brought about much more interest.......

[saco0o]

I react because you posted that under my and Pluto's post.
.

oh, no, sorry, it wasnt "for" you or "about" you. it was just another random rant hehe. im just really lost in general on that decision, as a whole.

i agree my post was a simplification, but its literally what happened. fia/wrc lost months talking about how to improve the top class, even announcing hybrids were gone, just to come back and change nothing. so we have a problem and the solution is to continue with the problem.
thats just non sense to me.
easy for me to say that from my chair, at my house, of course. i guess i was being too optmistic maybe. back to reality.

[WRCStan]

i agree my post was a simplification, but its literally what happened. fia/wrc lost months talking about how to improve the top class, even announcing hybrids were gone, just to come back and change nothing. so we have a problem and the solution is to continue with the problem.

Could have been, as people here said, an elaborate plan to get Hyundai (or another) to sign on the dotted line and hand over the dosh if that was the problem. It's only nothing on the surface

[TypeR]

Okay, let's keep the cars as they are..
But I don't understand, why there is zero or even less) information about the hybrid systems..
No logos or anything anywhere..
3rd year into HY cars and nothing has changed in that system.
Why don't let teams use the given amount of ,,extra power'' as and where they think is best for them..?

Would make the strategies more interesting..

[WRCStan]

But I don't understand, why there is zero or even less) information about the hybrid systems..

Because nobody cares except a diminishing FIA Green department and Compact Dynamics.

[Eli]

Honestly they shouldn't have signed the deal last year & this way we’d go back to ‘normal’ cars for ‘25 & ‘26, would’ve made things a little less complicated with all the infrastructure and so on ( not talking about the fact it would lessen the difficulty of moving from rally2 to rally1 for drivers).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's official !

Rally1 regulations will remain in place until the end of the 2026 WRC season, with hybrid power retained and Rally2-plus proposals abandoned.

[EstWRC]

It's official !

Rally1 regulations will remain in place until the end of the 2026 WRC season, with hybrid power retained and Rally2-plus proposals abandoned.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-makes-wrc-u-turn-as-rally1-retained-until-2026/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The current Rally1 hybrids are going to be used for a three year period, but what's next in 2025? Whatever is the decision, it should be made soon in order to get new manufacturers ready to join in 2025. The FIA president Mohammed Bin Sulyaem said he wants to take a "blank sheet of paper" to make the new rules.

Will the hybrids continue with the manufacturers supplying their own hybrid units? Will the hybrid battery be increased for longer HEV zones?

Or should we go to full electric already? Is the world ready for that in 2025? Would that attract manufacturers, is this what they will be most selling and manufacturing in 2025?

Or is hydrogen going be a thing soon? Who will build the first hydrogen rally car and when?

Or will be go to a cheaper option, maybe Rally2? Rally2 with a light hybrid package? Rally2 with a bigger restrictor? With more freedom like AP4?

Or maybe something like Maxi Rally/N5 or Oreca Rally2 Kit where everyone uses the same engine and transmission with a bodyshell of their choice?

Or are we going back to WRC cars?

Let me know your thoughts. The job of the FIA will not be easy but I hope they are already sharpening their pens for that blank sheet of paper so we won't be as late as with Rally1 hybrids.

Two and a half years and 114 Pages all for nothing.

The bottom line is that the current Teams / Manufacturers have all the power and no new ones are interested, thus the status quo prevails.

[AndyRAC]

WRC - the sick man of motorsport, and doesn't wish to change. Marvellous.....

[Mirek]

The point is that now it's already quite late to talk about 2027 regs.

Whatever earlier change would be completely meaningless because it could not bring new manufacturers anyway.

[Eli]

The point is that now it's already quite late to talk about 2027 regs.

Whatever earlier change would be completely meaningless because it could not bring new manufacturers anyway.

I guess we could all see it coming but I'm honestly annoyed at this point that they a) haven't even mentioned anything about the 2027 regulations this time round (& I don't think even they know what they'll do) and b) we got no mention about the new sprint format they're looking to implement next year. Also, no calendar for 2025? what the hell??

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Dirtfish view....

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/has-the-wrc-made-the-right-decision-to-keep-rally1/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I guess we could all see it coming but I'm honestly annoyed at this point that they a) haven't even mentioned anything about the 2027 regulations

Apparently they are on it...

"one of the key points that seems to have been lost in all of this is the work, the potential framework which has been provided for 2027. People have become so focused on next year, they’ve missed the real story which is the variety of options and potential manufacturer engagement in 2027.


“EV (Electric Vehicle), ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) with sustainable fuel, hydrogen, and possible mix of all of the above via balance of performance… everything is on the table. We know Alpine wanted EV for the WRC, but we know Subaru might not be so keen – this resolution potentially offers opportunity across the board.”

DirtFish understands the 2027 regulations, which will be based on the retention of the current Rally1 safety cell chassis, will be coming quickly, with further investigation in the coming weeks."

[Kras]

I have never been more pessimistic about the future of wrc. Manus will hold wrc hostage for a couple more years till one quits and then its over

[macebig]

This fiasco is 100% on Ben Sulayem. He just chose to bend the knee to Hyundai and possibly gain some much needed support from Ford in order to let WRC erode away slowly while focusing on fighting FOM and Liberty for the cash cow called F1. Disappointing from a FIA president that prides himself as a rallyman...

[WRCStan]

What else exactly do you guys want?

[AdvEvo]

What else exactly do you guys want?

No Hybrid no EV.

Racing and Rallying is there for excitement. Enjoyment for the spectators. EV or Hybrid does not belong in Racing and Rallying!

EV sales are already very bad. Lots of People don’t want it.

[WRCStan]

No Hybrid no EV.

Racing and Rallying is there for excitement. Enjoyment for the spectators. EV or Hybrid does not belong in Racing and Rallying!

EV sales are already very bad. Lots of People don’t want it.

So what exactly do you want? Didn't ask what you don't want.

Although the question was more aimed at the guys with this 'manufacturers are holding the FIA hostage' mentality. I'd like that situation explaining to me please, and how it should be improved.

[saco0o]

What else exactly do you guys want?

to understand how they went from "we have a problem in wrc, lets fix it" to "the obvious solution is to literally keep the problem the way it was".

[Andre Oliveira]

They don't know what to do. So, let's allow the time pass and maybe a miracle happens.

[Backa]

to understand how they went from "we have a problem in wrc, lets fix it" to "the obvious solution is to literally keep the problem the way it was".

It feels like this discussion is repeated a lot but you understand that sudden, chaotic changes that don't give manus sense that WRC has clear, trustworthy long-term vision is also a big problem?

WRC needs to make decisions for 2027 early, not leaving it until last minute. In 2025-2026 they can work on a lot of things regarding accessability for fans so those years don't need to be completely lost anyway.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

What else exactly do you guys want?

People wanted the FIA to address the low number of cars (Teams) in the top class, the crazy cost of a Rally1 Hybrid and the inability for upcoming drivers and event locals to access or compete with them.

Ideas and proposals were suggested but the current Teams had them over a barrell and were able to threaten to leave unless the status quo was maintained.

[rallyfiend]

People wanted the FIA to address the low number of cars (Teams) in the top class, the crazy cost of a Rally1 Hybrid and the inability for upcoming drivers and event locals to access or compete with them.

Ideas and proposals were suggested but the current Teams had them over a barrell and were able to threaten to leave unless the status quo was maintained.

But to make those changes would have cost everyone a lot of money and thus reduce their ability to enter more cars....

It lacked strategy. It was rushed and done without consultation. It was doomed for failure because all 'proposals' were shown to be complete rubbish...

[saco0o]

rally2, man.
"oh but it will ruin the national championships", one may say.
but its not like toyota would give ogier a factory car to compete at the french championship (hehe) and there are rules in rally2 competition when it comes to upgrades, for example. they wouldnt go crazy expensive like some think. of course factory teams cars would be stronger, but stuff like crashes and road position would totally allow other competitors to fight for the top positions, eventually. its not like erc or national championships are boring, right?
not only that, rally2s are already super expensive right now. i wouldnt find weird if rally3 (with toyota and lancia entering the game) were to become the top class in some countries rally championship in the next years.
idk. fia missed an opportunity here imo. rally2s are "not that fast'' but competition would be more fun to watch.
i mean, thats my view. im a big erc fan. wouldnt mind having 'that' as the top class.

[Mirek]

to understand how they went from "we have a problem in wrc, lets fix it" to "the obvious solution is to literally keep the problem the way it was".

I'll repeat the answer again. Time. Any change which is done less than two years beforehand is completely meaningless because it can't bring any new manufacturers.

[Mirek]

People wanted the FIA to address the low number of cars (Teams) in the top class, the crazy cost of a Rally1 Hybrid and the inability for upcoming drivers and event locals to access or compete with them.

Ideas and proposals were suggested but the current Teams had them over a barrell and were able to threaten to leave unless the status quo was maintained.

Same answer. You can't bring any new manufacturers by giving them no time to decide and develop their own car. You only piss the already commited ones by changing regs for fun.

[Mirek]

So what exactly do you want? Didn't ask what you don't want.

Although the question was more aimed at the guys with this 'manufacturers are holding the FIA hostage' mentality. I'd like that situation explaining to me please, and how it should be improved.

This. It's super easy and cheap to say what one doesn't want but it's pretty difficult to bring any viable options. Well, we just had the Euro elections where it was just like here on the board...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Rally2 could've been made the top class from 2025 without pissing off the current Manufacturers who all already have these machines.

Skoda and Citroen (Stellantis) could've then come in as factory teams.

The WRC2 Rally2 Regs could've been tweaked for a bit more power and aero.

Privateers could've bought them off the Teams and competed on an equal level.

[saco0o]

I'll repeat the answer again. Time. Any change which is done less than two years beforehand is completely meaningless because it can't bring any new manufacturers.

but the last changes in wrc did NOT brought new manufacturers to the sport, anyway.
its even worst cuz we lost vw, citroen and 'half' of ford... AND we lost "teams" too, for obvious reasons.
i cannot agree with anything regarding "keeping rally1s'' or any other sentence about "new manufacturers".
its not working, we can see that.
rally2. thats it. theres no other solution.

now we are left with 2 more years with 6 full time entries. SIX. oh, and 2 of them are pay-drivers (msport)
the mighty WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP has 6 full time entries. SIX, man. this is unaceptable and THATS WHY they started to look for 'solutions'. who would have thought that the 'obvious solution", after months of thinking, was to KEEP the same rules, the same 6 full time entries in the TOP RALLYING CHAMPIONSHIP, u'know?

haha im not angry with you, sorry if sounded like that. im just really impressed on how on earth fia didnt stopped this madness. just run rally2 cars. its THIS SIMPLE.

[saco0o]

This. It's super easy and cheap to say what one doesn't want but it's pretty difficult to bring any viable options. Well, we just had the Euro elections where it was just like here on the board...

imo its really simple: "rally2".
keep the "hey, manufacturers, the kit's upgrade calendar will continue the way they are, so you cannot build a 'rally1-' car inside the rally2 car". the rules is RALLY2 cars. dont want? piss off, theres couple of local entries for each neuville that doenst want to run a "slower car''

but i agree with other's opinions: they should have announced rally2 for 25-26 and the specs for 27, whatever they are.
i wish its rally2 for costumer and privateers and "rally2 on alternative power" for manufacturers.
idk how you equal that, but im sure theres enough experts out there to come up with the rules.
they already have Dakar doing that, right? they are having world rx with EVs vs ICE. they have WEC/IMSA with hybrids and non-hybrids. it is possible

[WRCStan]

Rally2 could've been made the top class from 2025 without pissing off the current Manufacturers who all already have these machines.

Skoda and Citroen (Stellantis) could've then come in as factory teams.

The WRC2 Rally2 Regs could've been tweaked for a bit more power and aero.

Privateers could've bought them off the Teams and competed on an equal level.

Wrong.

Wrong.

meh

Wrong.

Or, they could yes, but it's an idealist's view of WRC being a fair and inviting sport championship. If you expect that any of what you put is ever a serious target, you and I have opposing views of how the world turns.

[Backa]

Rally2 could've been made the top class from 2025 without pissing off the current Manufacturers who all already have these machines.

Hyundai having Rally2 car doesn't mean they wouldn't be pissed off with that solution. It would mean money they used to improve rally1 programme had much worse return of investment than they expected, purely because of WRC lack of vision. Toyota and Ford would be similarly pissed. Skoda and Citroen would be big beneficients.

[Eli]

The fact of the matter is we now need to change the name of this thread to main class in WRC 2027 (in hopes it won’t become 2028 with the way things are being done). But in all seriousness, like it’s been said here before, they need to have a vision- what they want to achieve and then plan a way of how to achieve it.

[rallyfiend]

Rally2 could've been made the top class from 2025 without pissing off the current Manufacturers who all already have these machines.

Skoda and Citroen (Stellantis) could've then come in as factory teams.

The WRC2 Rally2 Regs could've been tweaked for a bit more power and aero.

Privateers could've bought them off the Teams and competed on an equal level.

1) Not true. The current Ford, SKoda and Hyundai cars are bascially obselete.

2) SKoda and Stellantis are currently in the sport to the maximum that their parent companies are willing to put up with. THis is not necessarily a reflection on WRC, but on the philosophy towards all motorsport that exists within the Group. This is why even they said they wouldn't produce a 'kit' for their customers....

3) Great, lets make there already powerful cars more unsafe, for little spectacle....

4) All the manufacturers said they wouldn't do that. And in any case, it was a poorly thought our strategy from FIA because it doesn't work that way with the current set up of engines with pop-off valves on the engine. They thought it was a quick answer - it absolutely was not.

Again, this 'Working Group' thought they'd 'solve' the WRC without any real thought, consultation by a bunch of people who haven't been in the sport for a long time. Everything they suggested was found out to be wrong or unachievable. Every single thing.

[macebig]

3 years on Rally 2s as they are now. No additional costs, no kits, nothing. As they are now. Use 2025 to work out new regs from 2028 onwards. Simple. But, no, Hyundai will cry and Ford may be displeased with Ben Sulayem. It's 100% political.

[AndyRAC]

I can't see Ford being more involved than they are now. The GT3 Mustang seems to be more of a priority.....and even has full Ford branding on the WEC coverage....

[Sal yet again]

Without a WRC round in the USA Ford wont change their position. Its not like they have tested the water and backed a car in their own domestic championships. Mustang is one of their mainstay models in the home and Australian markets.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

[QUOTE=WRCStan;1346779

Or, they could yes, but it's an idealist's view of WRC being a fair and inviting sport championship. If you expect that any of what you put is ever a serious target, you and I have opposing views of how the world turns.[/QUOTE]

I was just saying it was the possible way to have more cars and more competition at the top level in an ideal world and if it had been planned well in advance.

Sadly it wasnt and now they stuck with just 8 cars and the same faces on every rally for another 2 years.

[dodge33cymru]

I was just saying it was the possible way to have more cars and more competition at the top level in an ideal world and if it had been planned well in advance.

Sadly it wasnt and now they stuck with just 8 cars and the same faces on every rally for another 2 years.

8 cars if they're lucky. I'll be surprised if Hyundai and Ford are both involved in the top class in 2026 personally.

And also puts a premium on the current drivers who are familiar with the Rally1 cars, puts another lock on the gate of up-and-comers.

[rallyfiend]

8 cars if they're lucky. I'll be surprised if Hyundai and Ford are both involved in the top class in 2026 personally.

And also puts a premium on the current drivers who are familiar with the Rally1 cars, puts another lock on the gate of up-and-comers.

A ban on part-time drivers scoring championship points would put a stop to this sharpish....

[deephouse]

A ban on part-time drivers scoring championship points would put a stop to this sharpish....

Imagine if Ogier wins this years championship on part time program. What a story. He has already multiple crowns with three different manufacturers over Loeb. That could also help the whole picture and promotion to reach more and more people.

[Mirek]

Rally2 could've been made the top class from 2025 without pissing off the current Manufacturers who all already have these machines.

Skoda and Citroen (Stellantis) could've then come in as factory teams.

The WRC2 Rally2 Regs could've been tweaked for a bit more power and aero.

Privateers could've bought them off the Teams and competed on an equal level.

I won't beat the dead horse again by repeating over and over again the same reasons why all you wrote is wrong. Come on. It's been explained so many times that it hurts.


imo its really simple: "rally2".

Same answer. Guys, why are you so ignorrant? Literally nobody in charge wants Rally2 as the top class. That idea is dead and burried for good.

[Franky]

Lower class as the top category is a no go. And everyone still loves to look greener than they are, tho it seems manufacturers EV ambitions are being scaled back a bit.

If to still look towards the hybrid solution, then why not to go for range extender/generator route with the engine only as the power plant supplying electricity of the electric motors? You'd get the brutal torque of EVs and could still go through the service park silently.

Of course it would leave the issue I have with most modern rally cars, they are missing the 'wow' of sound. A very loud speaker imitating engine sound based on throttle input?

[saco0o]

Same answer. Guys, why are you so ignorrant? Literally nobody in charge wants Rally2 as the top class. That idea is dead and burried for good.

same answer too: fine, then lets have 2 more years with only 6 full time cars in the "pinneacle of off road motorsport".
where 2 of these 6 are there only because that team gets money from the drivers ("pay-driver") and the promoter of the championship (redbull), otherwise they wouldnt (probably?).

[saco0o]

can at least we agree that we should start demanding hyundai to run a second team with 2 cars, since they were the ones crying about keeping current cars? hehe cuz latvala said removing the hybrids would be a good idea (they even tested, right?) and msport would never refuse a cheaper program, without hybrids...?
so its all on hyundai for me hehe.

i think things could work out if hyundai started a second team, if toyota really had a second team using subaru's bubble on the top of the rollcage, if msport (toyota and hyundai too, why not?) could rent some ('23 old cars?) non-hybrids rally1s and having them allowed to compete and score points. we would all be fine with that. we just need more cars on the top, more drivers, more teams.

[WRCStan]

off road motorsport

:rolleyes:

[WRCStan]

can at least we agree that we should start demanding hyundai to run a second team with 2 cars, since they were the ones crying about keeping current cars? hehe cuz latvala said removing the hybrids would be a good idea (they even tested, right?) and msport would never refuse a cheaper program, without hybrids...?
so its all on hyundai for me hehe.

i think things could work out if hyundai started a second team, if toyota really had a second team using subaru's bubble on the top of the rollcage, if msport (toyota and hyundai too, why not?) could rent some ('23 old cars?) non-hybrids rally1s and having them allowed to compete and score points. we would all be fine with that. we just need more cars on the top, more drivers, more teams.

M-Sport did refuse the cheaper programs, all three current manus did.

I'm not sold on second teams, an independent entry is needed to make it a meaningful entry else you only have also-rans. Unless the second teams are all non-hybrid and juniors or something like this. Doesn't have to be every round. Maybe fia/promoter can add 1 Rally Stars car per team sponsored by Saudi or something. I don't know, just thought it up.

[saco0o]

well, these are good ideas too. if we are keeping rally1s because the THREE TEAMS asked for that, then we need more of them on the stages! according to ewrc/cars, there are a lot of rally1 cars around. like, more than 20. how will they work together to run at least another 6 of these? with hybrids or without hybrids. juniors is a good idea, star car is a good idea. i'd hope these cars could score driver's points tho, even if they have no hybrids. they will be behind the hybrids cars anyway, so let them score those rally2 points

[WRCStan]

well, these are good ideas too. if we are keeping rally1s because the THREE TEAMS asked for that, then we need more of them on the stages! according to ewrc/cars, there are a lot of rally1 cars around. like, more than 20. how will they work together to run at least another 6 of these? with hybrids or without hybrids. juniors is a good idea, star car is a good idea. i'd hope these cars could score driver's points tho, even if they have no hybrids. they will be behind the hybrids cars anyway, so let them score those rally2 points

Thing is, more cars is a problem made by fans, and as it gets chatted about it's seen like it is a major problem. It's not really. 6 stars and 2/3 up and comers is about right through history. It's an OK number for the FIA/promoter and makes for a nice hour of TV and all this.

I regret saying this now as it doesn't answer the key question, a junior/non-hybrid class is not top-class in the strict sense of the words. Of course they would get driver points, but IMO not WRC2 points (nor manufacturers). It's more of an idea for the Promoter to back its own future and personalities that could enhance the current circus. It's great that they can do some local drivers here and there but if it can't get meaningful traction it lacks purpose.

[saco0o]

Thing is, more cars is a problem made by fans, and as it gets chatted about it's seen like it is a major problem. It's not really. 6 stars and 2/3 up and comers is about right through history. It's an OK number for the FIA/promoter and makes for a nice hour of TV and all this.
.

its weird to think about that because normally people just get used with what they have and thats it. for example:
in F1 they have 10 teams. current teams dont even want a big name like Andretti joining the series. i know in F1 having 10 teams instead of 11 means more money for the 10 teams, but its weird that right now F1 fans are kinda ok with only 10 teams while a few years ago, there were fears and talks about "oh, each team may have to bring 3 cars if we have not enough teams competing" (remember that?). but, with time, people stopped worrying. same for those v6 engines. its not loud as the v8, people complained. now most fans dont care anymore. v6s are fine. we tend to get used to stuff so MAYBE we can get used with wrc with just 6 cars + a few fillers, but it should be a little more interesting that what we have right now. we need better stories and rivalry too.
evans is weak and boring, taka is weak, munster is weak, fourmaux is weak, sordo-mikkelsen-lappi are just "fillers", not thaaat interesting.
Kalle/Seb/Ott/Tierry are the good ones.

[saco0o]

anyway. fascinating topic, always cool to chat about rallying as a whole.
but its to move on... to the 2027 wrc rules.

[Tauri_J]

Imagine if Ogier wins this years championship on part time program. What a story. He has already multiple crowns with three different manufacturers over Loeb. That could also help the whole picture and promotion to reach more and more people.

Winning a championship with part time program is not that special. Has happened many times in the past.

[macebig]

That was before 1993, when only 5/6/7 best results counted and teams and not all rounds counted for both manufacturers and drivers titles. After 94, where all rounds count, it has never happened.

[skarderud]

Take a look at the ERC from sweden, its much better in every way than todays WRC.
Sorry to say, FIA has shot themselves in the foot, and limping around blind without a clue how to stop the bleeding.

Cut rally1 hybrid, if the manufacturers don't want that, cut them too, open up the rules who can build a rallycar, the manufacturers building Electric cars anyway, they don't care about motorsport anymore, if the WRC ending up as a professional nonmanufacturer series like Lemans or F1/F2 its fine for me.
If some of the best drivers don't want to keep driving, thats also fine, not motivated drivers don't bring exitement anyway.

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[Tauri_J]

That was before 1993, when only 5/6/7 best results counted and teams and not all rounds counted for both manufacturers and drivers titles. After 94, where all rounds count, it has never happened.

I remember some guy, named Loeb.

[WRCStan]

Take a look at the ERC from sweden, its much better in every way than todays WRC.
Sorry to say, FIA has shot themselves in the foot, and limping around blind without a clue how to stop the bleeding.

Cut rally1 hybrid, if the manufacturers don't want that, cut them too, open up the rules who can build a rallycar, the manufacturers building Electric cars anyway, they don't care about motorsport anymore, if the WRC ending up as a professional nonmanufacturer series like Lemans or F1/F2 its fine for me.
If some of the best drivers don't want to keep driving, thats also fine, not motivated drivers don't bring exitement anyway.

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I won't beat the dead horse again by repeating over and over again the same reasons why all you wrote is wrong. Come on. It's been explained so many times that it hurts.



Same answer. Guys, why are you so ignorrant? Literally nobody in charge wants Rally2 as the top class. That idea is dead and burried for good.

:\\

[skarderud]

:\\I really don't care what the topdudes want, they obviously don't know anything. At all. Let rhem kill the WRC then.
Stupid people runs this. Sorry, someone has to say that.

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[WRCStan]

You want to see WRC merge with ERC. ERC already exists. So why are you here? (https://youtu.be/L3dxMGzt5mU?t=21)

[Humber]

The Main WRC Class has been silly for quite a few years; now as well even the points system for the main wrc class. Leave the Rally1 for the big budgets and big attitudes etc.

I suggest an AP4 type system to run with the WRC Rally 2 class, Rally 2A to run the current Rally 2 and R5 cars and Rally 2B to allow AP4 type cars to be part of the 'Rally 2' class. Modify the AP4 rules to allow the 2B car to be slower than Rally2A. The 2B build budget to be far less than a WRC main class car. In NZ the AP4s have run Audi S1, Holden Barina, Mitsubishi Mirage, Mazda 2 (more regular cars Paddon's AP4 Hyundai i20, Skoda Fabia AP4, 2 & 4 door Ford Fiesta AP4, Toyota Yaris), made for Australia 2 door Mini. Rally 2B mainly aimed to be a semi-professional privateers tuners class so they can turn up with one off builds, BMWs, Tesla(with a 'class standard engine', Nissans etc converted to rally cars, play with their own engines, transmissions without having to air freight engines back to one European factory for checking etc.

[PLuto]

Rally2 could've been made the top class from 2025 without pissing off the current Manufacturers who all already have these machines.

Skoda and Citroen (Stellantis) could've then come in as factory teams.

The WRC2 Rally2 Regs could've been tweaked for a bit more power and aero.

Privateers could've bought them off the Teams and competed on an equal level.

This is nonsense. Because nobody from current Rally2 manufacturers wanted it. All the proposals made by "Richards commission" were not discussed with manufacturers and all other groups involved in this sport. It easily failed as it was bad from beginning and nobody wanted them. From beginning, the best way is to keep current Rally1 cars until the end of 2026 as it was originally planned and work now on new cars with proper regulations from 2027...

[skarderud]

You want to see WRC merge with ERC. ERC already exists. So why are you here? (https://youtu.be/L3dxMGzt5mU?t=21)

No, i want WRC to be as good as ERC. Simple as that.

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[WRCStan]

It easily failed

If Hyundai signed up for another year or two it was a success.

[saco0o]

You want to see WRC merge with ERC. ERC already exists. So why are you here? (https://youtu.be/L3dxMGzt5mU?t=21)

haha good reference. i spent years on motocross foruns arguing about how the world championship is broken or how in american supercross they should ditch these 450cc 4strokes bikes.... but here in my house i actually only watch the 125cc 2strokes european championship haha modern times, we are all weird. we seek internet confirmation and confrontation, but nobody wants to figth about zanzoz vs mancini, they only talk about gasjer, jef and jorge prado hehe

[Mirek]

I really don't care what the topdudes want, they obviously don't know anything. At all. Let rhem kill the WRC then.
Stupid people runs this. Sorry, someone has to say that.

That was pretty arrogant statement from you. How about it's you who don't know? How many international championships have you run to make statements like this?

WRC without manufacturers is dead because it can not live without their money and big sponsors. Privateers can never bring the funding needed to run the series with the current level of footage, current calendar etc., hence why whatever rules they must be manufacturer-oriented. Anything else will lead to reducing WRC into second ERC which is completely stupid idea when one healthy ERC already exists.

[Mirek]

The Main WRC Class has been silly for quite a few years; now as well even the points system for the main wrc class. Leave the Rally1 for the big budgets and big attitudes etc.

I suggest an AP4 type system to run with the WRC Rally 2 class, Rally 2A to run the current Rally 2 and R5 cars and Rally 2B to allow AP4 type cars to be part of the 'Rally 2' class. Modify the AP4 rules to allow the 2B car to be slower than Rally2A. The 2B build budget to be far less than a WRC main class car. In NZ the AP4s have run Audi S1, Holden Barina, Mitsubishi Mirage, Mazda 2 (more regular cars Paddon's AP4 Hyundai i20, Skoda Fabia AP4, 2 & 4 door Ford Fiesta AP4, Toyota Yaris), made for Australia 2 door Mini. Rally 2B mainly aimed to be a semi-professional privateers tuners class so they can turn up with one off builds, BMWs, Tesla(with a 'class standard engine', Nissans etc converted to rally cars, play with their own engines, transmissions without having to air freight engines back to one European factory for checking etc.

Rally2 must stay separated from the main WRC manufacturer competition. That's the only way to keep them affordable, level and privateer friendly. The sport can not afford to destroy Rally2 class and all other championships where they run for a very temporary boost of WRC level.

Also there was already a totally failed attempt to combine WRC cars with regional cars. It didn't bring cheaper WRC cars but it brough extremely expensive regional cars which the teams mostly couln't afford. We don't need to try that again (WRC/RRC).

[Kras]

"Everything is shit but nothing should change" seems to be the moto of the "level-headed" folks here

[Backa]

"Everything is shit but nothing should change" seems to be the moto of the "level-headed" folks here

That's weird way to defend bad ideas.

Although some Working Group ideas were good if proposed earlier, late timing made them bad.

[WRCStan]

"Everything is shit but nothing should change" seems to be the moto of the "level-headed" folks here

I'd go with "Some things are understandably shit".

[Mirek]

"Everything is shit but nothing should change" seems to be the moto of the "level-headed" folks here

Things shall be changed but only a well prepared change announced reasonably early (at least two years ahead) makes sense.

[skarderud]

That was pretty arrogant statement from you. How about it's you who don't know? How many international championships have you run to make statements like this?

WRC without manufacturers is dead because it can not live without their money and big sponsors. Privateers can never bring the funding needed to run the series with the current level of footage, current calendar etc., hence why whatever rules they must be manufacturer-oriented. Anything else will lead to reducing WRC into second ERC which is completely stupid idea when one healthy ERC already exists.Well, i could of course use other words, like incompetent, greedy, or "out for lunch", but the meaning is the same.

Of course i dont have run a international championship, neighter did you, i presume.

But, i've started 4 companies last 20 years, still running 2 of them, i know quite much how to run a business. I'm close to 50 years old, maybe i'm arrogant, i call it open, honest and direct speaking.

I've also run a quite big motorsportarrangement, we have run it 8 times i think, i also been a part of big arrangements in other sports, so i have my words safe i think.

The biggest problem is that it seems the promoter don't have a clear goal, and a steady way to that goal.
"The customer has always right" some said once, that is wrong. Sometimes they have, but most of the times, they don't. The customers for the promoter is mainly the manufacturers, and they are afraid to make a decision that some not agree to, thats a bad way to run a business.
Now i feel the manu's pushing the promoter around, noone are happy, noone have a clear goal, noone make the championship moves forward.

The other problem is that the manufacturers aren't interested in motorsport anymore, both due to not suitable cars, not suitable engines, and environmental politics.
So, i mean, that a manufacturerbased championship is a dead road, they have to make new set of rules that can suit semi-manufacturers or importerbased team that want to compete..

My sugestion is from 2027: safetycell as is today. Eighter own engine from production or a standard FIA engine. Sustainable fuel.
Less aero, less carbonfiber, normal sequensial gearbox, shorter suspension (not much, but enough to lower the speed)

And of course, no hybrid.

They need more customers, ia teams, if the team is named Toyota gazoo racing or opel prodrive wrt, or mitsubishi uk redbull i don't care, but they need more teams and more cars.
Of course not everyone can win, but that is life. If that was the only goal, why are these other teams enter F1?


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[Mirek]

Well, i could of course use other words, like incompetent, greedy, or "out for lunch", but the meaning is the same.

Of course i dont have run a international championship, neighter did you, i presume.

But, i've started 4 companies last 20 years, still running 2 of them, i know quite much how to run a business. I'm close to 50 years old, maybe i'm arrogant, i call it open, honest and direct speaking.

I've also run a quite big motorsportarrangement, we have run it 8 times i think, i also been a part of big arrangements in other sports, so i have my words safe i think.

The biggest problem is that it seems the promoter don't have a clear goal, and a steady way to that goal.
"The customer has always right" some said once, that is wrong. Sometimes they have, but most of the times, they don't. The customers for the promoter is mainly the manufacturers, and they are afraid to make a decision that some not agree to, thats a bad way to run a business.
Now i feel the manu's pushing the promoter around, noone are happy, noone have a clear goal, noone make the championship moves forward.

The other problem is that the manufacturers aren't interested in motorsport anymore, both due to not suitable cars, not suitable engines, and environmental politics.
So, i mean, that a manufacturerbased championship is a dead road, they have to make new set of rules that can suit semi-manufacturers or importerbased team that want to compete..

My sugestion is from 2027: safetycell as is today. Eighter own engine from production or a standard FIA engine. Sustainable fuel.
Less aero, less carbonfiber, normal sequensial gearbox, shorter suspension (not much, but enough to lower the speed)

And of course, no hybrid.

They need more customers, ia teams, if the team is named Toyota gazoo racing or opel prodrive wrt, or mitsubishi uk redbull i don't care, but they need more teams and more cars.
Of course not everyone can win, but that is life. If that was the only goal, why are these other teams enter F1?

Thank you for reasonable argument. Calling people names is really unnecessary though.

Now you speak about 2027 rules but we know little about what they are working on for 2027. What if they come with the very same thing you just wrote down? What is the point of your attack then?

What FIA working group made really wrong is coming with this weird last minute proposal without having pre-mediated support from at least some manus. The fact that manufacturers refused that proposal and FIA backed away didn't mean that FIA was doing everything the manus wanted. In this case it's exactly the opposite because this proposal went directly against their will.

[EstWRC]

I admire your will Mirek to argue with the windmills here.

[TypeR]

I admire your will Mirek to argue with the windmills here.
Yes, You are right.. ARGUE with everybody, but not giving any ideas or options for new gen cars.
There have been many posts/questions about or how WRC future/cars should look like.. but there is only some master degree blabla.


,,Just give some years of time, everything will be good then!''


Dmn I miss Mr Adamo..

[EstWRC]

i meant "argue" in a good way and he has always very good explanations and points unlike some others who think they know everything when they have started 4 companies and call FIA and etc people stupid and what not.

Please go and candidate to work also in FIA then if you think you have answers and solutions for everything.

[skarderud]

i meant "argue" in a good way and he has always very good explanations and points unlike some others who think they know everything when they have started 4 companies and call FIA and etc people stupid and what not.

Please go and candidate to work also in FIA then if you think you have answers and solutions for everything.Ok, argue i'm wrong then. Just don't like this...


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[WRCStan]

Of course not everyone can win, but that is life. If that was the only goal, why are these other teams enter F1?

As I understand it F1 teams get a cut of the revenue from the promotion, WRC teams cannot and that situation is unlikely to change.

Edit: Not forgetting the pay drivers either.

[saco0o]

theres no right or wrong here, fellas.
theres only fans that want wrc to be in a better place. we may have different views on what could be better but in the end this is a world championship were brands use for money laundery/tax reduction, some p.r. b.s. and fia uses to acumulate political power and money haha :(

[Mirek]

Yes, You are right.. ARGUE with everybody, but not giving any ideas or options for new gen cars.
There have been many posts/questions about or how WRC future/cars should look like.. but there is only some master degree blabla.

For a poster on the forum it is impossible to bring the righ idea because none of us in talks with existing and potential manufacturers, with FIA, drivers etc. The real academic blabla is proposing whatever stuff without discussing that with all players. Guys, negotiating rules is pure politics, it's not even very technical discussion and it absolutely doesn't matter what proposals we write here. The result is a compromise of different ideas, interests and targets but no compromise can be reached without negotiations, not even here on the forum.

What I tried to explain was why some of the ideas posted here would never be accepted because they ignore interests of the major parties involved in the negotiations.

[skarderud]

For a poster on the forum it is impossible to bring the righ idea because none of us in talks with existing and potential manufacturers, with FIA, drivers etc. The real academic blabla is proposing whatever stuff without discussing that with all players. Guys, negotiating rules is pure politics, it's not even very technical discussion and it absolutely doesn't matter what proposals we write here. The result is a compromise of different ideas, interests and targets but no compromise can be reached without negotiations, not even here on the forum.

What I tried to explain was why some of the ideas posted here would never be accepted because they ignore interests of the major parties involved in the negotiations.Of course, but isn't it the point of a forum like this, that fans like us can disquss different things about the sport we love?
If its no point to disquss this, and other thi gs, why are we at this forum at all?

From my point of wiew, i hope some in the FIA, teams and promoter actually reads this forum, and that can be a tipping point in witch direction they take the future.
Probably not, but they have to listen to the fans if this sport going to survive as a profesional sport all over the globe.

The teams/manu's marketingdepartmens is probably shortsighted when it comes to motorsport, things turns quite fast in these days, in the 80's and 90's it didn't.

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[Steve Boyd]

A technical formula written by sales & marketing people with limited engineering knowledge is never going to work.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

For a poster on the forum it is impossible to bring the righ idea because none of us in talks with existing and potential manufacturers, with FIA, drivers etc. The real academic blabla is proposing whatever stuff without discussing that with all players. Guys, negotiating rules is pure politics, it's not even very technical discussion and it absolutely doesn't matter what proposals we write here. The result is a compromise of different ideas, interests and targets but no compromise can be reached without negotiations, not even here on the forum.

What I tried to explain was why some of the ideas posted here would never be accepted because they ignore interests of the major parties involved in the negotiations.

I wish you had posted this back at the start of this Thread and we wouldnt have all wasted our time posting our opinions and suggestions.

You should get a Moderator to shut down any such threads about the future as no one here knows anything or has a valid view on the possibilities.

[Mirek]

I wish you had posted this back at the start of this Thread and we wouldnt have all wasted our time posting our opinions and suggestions.

You should get a Moderator to shut down any such threads about the future as no one here knows anything or has a valid view on the possibilities.

What was calling for an idea, which was already rejected, good for (Rally2 based top class)? It really didn't happen on the first page.

[Mirek]

Of course, but isn't it the point of a forum like this, that fans like us can disquss different things about the sport we love?
If its no point to disquss this, and other thi gs, why are we at this forum at all?

From my point of wiew, i hope some in the FIA, teams and promoter actually reads this forum, and that can be a tipping point in witch direction they take the future.
Probably not, but they have to listen to the fans if this sport going to survive as a profesional sport all over the globe.

The teams/manu's marketingdepartmens is probably shortsighted when it comes to motorsport, things turns quite fast in these days, in the 80's and 90's it didn't.

It should be read in the context. I was criticizing calling for rally2-based top class in the time when that idea was already rejected and dead.

What you proposed is reasonable and actually feasible.

[samers]

The World Rally Championship (WRC) is set to undergo significant changes in 2025 as it transitions away from hybrid technology. The current Rally1 hybrid cars, which have been in use since 2022, will be modified to operate solely on internal combustion engines powered by 100% sustainable fuel. This decision was influenced by rising costs associated with hybrid systems and a desire to simplify the vehicles for teams and manufacturers36.


The FIA has confirmed that the hybrid units supplied by Compact Dynamics will be eliminated from Rally1 cars. This change aims to reduce complexity, maintenance costs, and overall weight, lowering the minimum weight from 1260 kg to 1180 kg36.
Rally1 cars will now utilize a 1.6-liter turbocharged engine without hybrid assistance, expected to produce around 380 bhp. The air restrictor will also be reduced from 36 mm to 35 mm to maintain competitive performance56.

The FIA's decision is partly driven by the need to make participation more financially viable for teams. The cost per car is targeted at €400,000, significantly lower than the nearly €1 million price tag associated with hybrid vehicles57.
Additionally, Rally2 cars will have the opportunity to compete with enhanced specifications, including larger restrictors and optional features that could narrow the performance gap between Rally1 and Rally2 categories.

While the immediate future of WRC in 2025 focuses on internal combustion engines, there is ongoing discussion about integrating electric vehicles or hydrogen technology in the longer term. The FIA has indicated that an electric category could be introduced in the future, contingent on developing suitable regulations that ensure competitive parity with traditional Rally1 cars56.
Hydrogen remains a potential avenue for exploration, although no specific timelines or manufacturers have been announced regarding hydrogen rally cars. The interest in hydrogen technology is growing, but practical implementations are still in early stages within motorsport.

The FIA hopes that these regulatory changes will attract new manufacturers to the championship. Companies like Stellantis Group are monitoring developments closely and may consider re-entering based on how regulations evolve beyond 2025 (https://ksatravels.pk/).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Analysis of the 2025 Rally1 2.0 Cars after Rallye Monte-Carlo...

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2025/02/04/rallye-monte-carlo-2025-rally1-car-2-0/

[Steve Boyd]

Analysis of the 2025 Rally1 2.0 Cars after Rallye Monte-Carlo...

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2025/02/04/rallye-monte-carlo-2025-rally1-car-2-0/Well I never!
Who would have thought that there was a camshaft associated with the hybrid unit that needed to be removed. I think he meant the hybrid motor driveshaft.

I do wonder if the bloke writing these articles is as technically savvy as he'd like you to think. If he really wanted to explain about some tecnical aerodynamics, he could have gone into how a 5.5% reduction in turbo restrictor cross section gives a 6.5% reduction in power. The explanation is the boundary layer effect where about a 2 mm layer of the air next to the restrictor doesn't flow as fast as the air across most of the section. As a result a reduction from 36 to 35 mm reduces the flow unaffected by the boundary layer by about 32 to 31 mm - a bit over 6%.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well I never!
Who would have thought that there was a camshaft associated with the hybrid unit that needed to be removed. I think he meant the hybrid motor driveshaft.

I do wonder if the bloke writing these articles is as technically savvy as he'd like you to think. If he really wanted to explain about some tecnical aerodynamics, he could have gone into how a 5.5% reduction in turbo restrictor cross section gives a 6.5% reduction in power. The explanation is the boundary layer effect where about a 2 mm layer of the air next to the restrictor doesn't flow as fast as the air across most of the section. As a result a reduction from 36 to 35 mm reduces the flow unaffected by the boundary layer by about 32 to 31 mm - a bit over 6%.

To be fair, English isn't his first language and I'm sure we all knew he meant driveshaft.

For me he keeps quite technical subject areas simple enough for ordinary people to understand.

If you can do better, maybe you could write a piece on the full effect of the changes ?

[Mary Mary]

You can contact Lluis on the page and he visits this forum too, so you can point something out without being an ass about it. You also paid zero cents to read that, and it's sad to see the suggestion somebody who offers so much free time and expertise isn't doing enough. I appreciate your expertise and contributions too Steve, but there isn't a competition.

[Steve Boyd]

You can contact Lluis on the page and he visits this forum too, so you can point something out without being an ass about it. You also paid zero cents to read that, and it's sad to see the suggestion somebody who offers so much free time and expertise isn't doing enough. I appreciate your expertise and contributions too Steve, but there isn't a competition.Fair enough.
I'm not a fluid mechanics expert by any means, though I did study it a bit as part of my enginering training 50 years ago, and haven't used it since. It's just that every time I read one of his articles I come away disapointed that I didn't learn anything other than visual observations of the cars evolution. While that may be enough for some, I'd like to see some more detailed explanations of the statements he makes.