2022 WRC News & Rumours

[dimviii]

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing WRC Challenge ProgramThree new drivers chosen to pursue their WRC dreams

https://toyotagazooracing.com/challengeprogram_rally/release/2022/0207-01/

[wyler]

take it with more than a pinch of salt, but in italy rumors are growing about a wrc comeback of stellantis with lancia brand.
they ll launch a completely ev delta in 2026, and are supposed to look very closely to the new 2025 regulation to join an elctric wrc with it.

tbh, seems very unlikely to me, first time i read of the delta story, but rumors about lancia comeback with an hybrid are getting loud.

[skarderud]

take it with more than a pinch of salt, but in italy rumors are growing about a wrc comeback of stellantis with lancia brand.
they ll launch a completely ev delta in 2026, and are supposed to look very closely to the new 2025 regulation to join an elctric wrc with it.

tbh, seems very unlikely to me, first time i read of the delta story, but rumors about lancia comeback with an hybrid are getting loud.I also heard about this, that Stellantis is looking to a WRC-project with one of the brands.
Also østberg hinted about something was under disqussion in the Stellantis group.
But that can be other brands to.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[WRCStan]

in italy rumors are growing about a wrc comeback of stellantis with lancia brand.

Sounds like whoever started this rumour may think Lancia are relevant outside Italy.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Sounds like whoever started this rumour may think Lancia are relevant outside Italy.

If they want to make it relevant again its history points to using the WRC. The electric 'Delta Integrale' coming to WRX got a lot of attention.

[WRCStan]

If they want to make it relevant again its history points to using the WRC. The electric 'Delta Integrale' coming to WRX got a lot of attention.

I found a link - https://www.motor1.com/news/546508/lancia-sell-cars-outside-italy/

"The brand’s new CEO wants to reposition Lancia as a near-premium automaker aimed at customers with an average age of 55 with at least one child still at home", "will target potential customers and owners of brands such as Tesla, Volvo, and Mercedes-Benz’s EQ division"

I don't buy it, any of this.

[focus206]

Sounds like whoever started this rumour may think Lancia are relevant outside Italy.

You seem to think Lancia is relevant IN Italy. Lancia only makes the Ypsilon in Italy and it's not even popular. The relevance in Italy is the same as it is for other countries and their motorsport fans: the past glory of Delta, Rally 037, Stratos...

[Jarek Z]

Lancia, owned by Fiat since 1969, had been pronounced dead by then-FCA supremo Sergio Marchionne back in 2014.
The death sentence, pronounced by the manager in his characteristically blunt language, seemingly left no doubts:

“We realized the Lancia brand has no appeal outside of Italy. It has no heritage neither in Europe nor in the U.S.”

source: https://medium.com/roadster-life/hard-to-kill-b20fbabd3c4d

[wyler]

You seem to think Lancia is relevant IN Italy. Lancia only makes the Ypsilon in Italy and it's not even popular. The relevance in Italy is the same as it is for other countries and their motorsport fans: the past glory of Delta, Rally 037, Stratos...

they are reported to launch new line(s) of vehicles. delta ev in 2025 (most probably also a hy version before) and new ypsilon hy in 2024. private projects are revamping the delta (for rx) the stratos and the 037 (showed on montecarlo)

stellantis has all the main motorsport championships covered but wrc, sure they have a lot of brands so maybe can be another one, but still is strongly rumored of a comeback. surely a comeback in wrc with a historic rally brand can be interesting (also to launch the new brand cars) and worthy from pr side (remember the hype on the rx delta and for the r4 kit audi i.e.)

plus, the big boss is competing in the historic rally in a stratos, so maybe the brand choice can also be a bit "emotional"

still the most interesting thing -if real- is that 2manus/3brands (lancia opel and renault) are looking at wrc from 2025.

[wyler]

Lancia, owned by Fiat since 1969, had been pronounced dead by then-FCA supremo Sergio Marchionne back in 2014.
The death sentence, pronounced by the manager in his characteristically blunt language, seemingly left no doubts:

“We realized the Lancia brand has no appeal outside of Italy. It has no heritage neither in Europe nor in the U.S.”

source: https://medium.com/roadster-life/hard-to-kill-b20fbabd3c4d

true, but the supremo is now dead, and the new boss is running ss in a stratos, so...

[focus206]

Lancia, owned by Fiat since 1969, had been pronounced dead by then-FCA supremo Sergio Marchionne back in 2014.
The death sentence, pronounced by the manager in his characteristically blunt language, seemingly left no doubts:

“We realized the Lancia brand has no appeal outside of Italy. It has no heritage neither in Europe nor in the U.S.”

source: https://medium.com/roadster-life/hard-to-kill-b20fbabd3c4d

Marchionne didn't care for motorsport and this sentence reflects that. Lancia Ypsilons and the other few models didn't have appeal anywhere (but can you picture Marchionne saying that one of his brands didn't have appeal not even in the home country?), while in the rest of the world Lancia is known more or less only by motorsport fans. There's no much difference between in and outside of Italy about Lancia.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/fia-launches-global-rally-ranking-system-from-2022/

FIA rally driver ranking coming for 2022

Where it is?

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/renault-reveals-rally3-launch-timeline/

Renault Clio Rally3 coming in April 2023, good to see someone other than M-sport invest in that category.

[wyler]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/renault-reveals-rally3-launch-timeline/

Renault Clio Rally3 coming in April 2023, good to see someone other than M-sport invest in that category.

reportedly (by latvala among others) also toyota has green light on rally3 while waiting for clarification about mild hybrid for rally 2.

[Tom K]

Where it is?

I think first ranking listing was supposed to be in April

[AnttiL]

reportedly (by latvala among others) also toyota has green light on rally3 while waiting for clarification about mild hybrid for rally 2.

Latvala said during Rally Finland 2021 that it's likely Toyota will make a Rally3 before Rally2, but it won't happen before second half of 2023 at earliest.

[OHL]

Sounds like whoever started this rumour may think Lancia are relevant outside Italy.

At a quick glance, yes it might be like that.
But if you are Stellantis and you want to launch a premium BEV product under one of your existing brands, Lancia is not a bad choice.
Volvo did this with Polestar and I expect others will follow suit.

If you go to the Stellantis website right now and select the Lancia brand, there is a large photo of all of their rally cars on the Lancia landing page. The photo is larger than the one for their current product.
This cannot be by mistake and looks to remind people of the story of Lancia, not the current underwhelming product offering.

The demographic who have a soft spot in their hearts for these cars are also likely to have the disposable income to buy one.
A re-imagined Beta or Delta would probably sell quite well, with the right kind of margin, if done in limited release alongside another decent product.

Audi is also considering to offer a re-imagined Sport Quattro so there has to be market interest for these cars.

A rally program to go along side would make sense depending on the amount of money Stellantis wanted to put into marketing it.

[WRCStan]

At a quick glance, yes it might be like that.
But if you are Stellantis and you want to launch a premium BEV product under one of your existing brands, Lancia is not a bad choice.


If I were Stellantis and wanted a solely EV premium brand, I'd start a new brand as there isn't one in their group to use for that purpose. I'd never heard of Polestar until a year or two ago and now I associate them with new EV technology, just like Tesla, another relatively new brand from nothing. Lancia will always be associated with being Italian and therefore unreliable, EV tech is too fresh for consumers to worry. Then there's the mafia image which I have from what I saw with my own eyes having spent time in Italy when I was younger. This is how branding works but this could all be my casual British racism shining through, so the question to ask yourselves is would you buy/lease/want a Lancia BEV? At product level let's be honest, they are going to be common platform cars to the other brands anyway which already include premium options - if they offer BEV options.

They may sell a few Delta EVs to nostalgic bored 55 year olds (who won't help/kick their adult kids out the home), but it's such a tenuous link between an EV company of 2026 and the cars that went rallying 'back in the day'. It just sounds like corporate speak for raising expectations at this point. I don't agree WRC is right for a premium brand even. Peugeot have much better global appeal and just as much rally heritage and despite these rumours or intent, I believe that's more likely even if it were true Stellantis gets behind just one of their brands for WRC. As always I look forward to being proven wrong.

[wyler]

this could all be my casual British racism shining through.

from italy. yes. definitely.

[focus206]

Lancia will always be associated with being Italian and therefore unreliable, EV tech is too fresh for consumers to worry. Then there's the mafia image which I have from what I saw with my own eyes having spent time in Italy when I was younger. This is how branding works but this could all be my casual British racism shining through


lol okay, let's just shut down all Italian brands and the whole country then, because some people associate us with mafia. Which is a bit ironic coming from a Brit, after Anglo-Americans re-instated mafia rule in Sicily against Fascist Italy, but that's another story.

Going back to serious talk, in terms of motorsport, Lancia would be a long awaited return by many - most younger fans all over the world have heard of the Delta, the Stratos and probably the Rally 037, especially thanks to Youtube and videogames.
In case Stellantis wants to make a EV brand, I wouldn't worry too much of having many potential customers avoiding EV Lancia because "ew Italian unrealiable pizza mafia mussolini car" stereotypes (if they have these stereotypes, they probably have some towards Peugeot too). There are way bigger aspects - if the car will be actually good, people's faith in EVs, etc.
I recently got a Skoda... hearing less and less people referring to it as a trash Eastern European car from behind the iron curtain. With that said, I don't care if it will be Lancia, Peugeot or somebody else, I just hope there will be a new manufacturer soon.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://rossomotori.it/2022/02/cesare-fiorio-ed-il-ritorno-nei-rally-di-lancia-non-ce-la-voglia-di-organizzare-un-reparto-corse/

[WRCStan]

lol okay, let's just shut down all Italian brands and the whole country then, because some people associate us with mafia. Which is a bit ironic coming from a Brit, after Anglo-Americans re-instated mafia rule in Sicily against Fascist Italy

Hopefully you get to see the multiple ironies of me using the 'casual British racism' phrase. For sure you are reading words that aren't there.

The point was you don't revive a dormant brand of old and expect the older generation consumers who remember them to only remember the rally cars. Sure, younger fans know those cars from Youtube and videogames. Who cares? They won't be buying them. Although, that's actually a better market strategy for the Lancia brand lol.

Maybe a Lancia thread is needed.

Edit: Can I interest anybody in an MG EV https://www.mg.co.uk/ ?

[becher]

Hopefully you get to see the multiple ironies of me using the 'casual British racism' phrase. For sure you are reading words that aren't there.

The point was you don't revive a dormant brand of old and expect the older generation consumers who remember them to only remember the rally cars. Sure, younger fans know those cars from Youtube and videogames. Who cares? They won't be buying them. Although, that's actually a better market strategy for the Lancia brand lol.

Maybe a Lancia thread is needed.

Edit: Can I interest anybody in an MG EV https://www.mg.co.uk/ ?

BEV SUV with an MG badge? Nope. Lightweight sportscar with a bit of rough british charm and an MG badge? Yes.

Maybe the enthusiast is talking out of me, but I suppose lancisti would rather see the brand dead than another attempt to cannibalize the name for another unworthy product devoid of any Lancia quality/uniqueness (yet another something something crossover). Personally I'm a huge alfisti, but i couldn't care less about their products if they are "germanized" saloons and stupid utility vehicles with the ZF 8 speed.

[focus206]

Hopefully you get to see the multiple ironies of me using the 'casual British racism' phrase. For sure you are reading words that aren't there.

The point was you don't revive a dormant brand of old and expect the older generation consumers who remember them to only remember the rally cars. Sure, younger fans know those cars from Youtube and videogames. Who cares? They won't be buying them. Although, that's actually a better market strategy for the Lancia brand lol.

Maybe a Lancia thread is needed.


I just think you give too much weight to the stereotype you believe and assume that so many people do as well, to the degree that Lancia or another Italian manufacturer is hopeless to sell to anybody, as foreigners would despise it because it's Italian - and therefore unrealiable trash made by mafia.
I know about motorsport and its history, can't say I'm an expert in marketing strategies and sales. I imagine a lot depends on what cars would Lancia start making again. I'm aware that fans who know the Lancia name will not be big numbers in the great scheme of things, but I think you greatly overestimate the amount of people who would never buy whatever car they would make just because there's written "Lancia" on the logo.

[Eli]

Just over 3 months after this article: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-this-the-end-of-rally-mexico/

This morning I see this: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-mexico-to-host-nations-rally-in-wrc-return-bid/

So perhaps all is not lost for Rally Mexico’s future in the WRC and maybe if we are lucky we will see it back on the calendar as soon as 2023. Although with the ongoing Covid situation it might take a while before they decide to fill that empty March slot.

[dimviii]

Fourmaux helping build new WRC Puma for Sweden after Monte Carlo crash

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fourmaux-helping-build-new-wrc-puma-for-sweden-after-monte-carlo-crash/8054343/

[EstWRC]

Fourmaux helping build new WRC Puma for Sweden after Monte Carlo crash

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fourmaux-helping-build-new-wrc-puma-for-sweden-after-monte-carlo-crash/8054343/

Here he is https://twitter.com/msportltd/status/1492080875420491820?s=21

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Easier to build a new one of these 2022 cars than repair one...

[Kenneth]

Well repairing is basically building new bodywork so.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Well repairing is basically building new bodywork so.

"While the car was retrieved, it was deemed quicker to build up an entirely new chassis to compete in Sweden."

[Kenneth]

Quicker doesn't mean easier or cheaper

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Quicker doesn't mean easier or cheaper

It does mean easier .

MW also stated the new car is much harder to repair than the old one.

[denkimi]

Hard to believe the new cars would be more difficult to repair than the old.

But building a new chassis might be a lot easier.

[logic]

Hard to believe the new cars would be more difficult to repair than the old.

But building a new chassis might be a lot easier.

if you saw the lay out then you would understand, a delaminated tire could make you super rally so easily

[EstWRC]

An hour long Betsafe interview with Suninen https://youtu.be/roBxnoYEn_Y

At the moment only with Estonian subtitles but I’m quite sure they will add English ones at some point

[Hartusvuori]

An hour long Betsafe interview with Suninen https://youtu.be/roBxnoYEn_Y

At the moment only with Estonian subtitles but I’m quite sure they will add English ones at some point

Good stuff. Thanks for the link. I like these longer Suninen interviews, because he is often honest and to the point, no fillers.

[dimviii]

Good stuff. Thanks for the link. I like these longer Suninen interviews, because he is often honest and to the point, no fillers.
so did he say something we dont know?

[Hartusvuori]

so did he say something we dont know?

I'm only halfway through the interview, but there are for example some details how (bad) it was at M-Sport the last years. Like saving costs from catering.

Also, looking at the future, even if he is testing Hyundai Rally2 and supposed to start with them in WRC2 this year, he does not have contract with Hyundai yet.

[EstWRC]

im also half way through or even less, he did only total 3 test days with the new Ford R5 back in 2019!!! Said that in his opinion it was wrong to go straight to Rally Estonia that year with that R5. This year he has done 6 days alone with the Hyundai R5.

He was supposed to go to Toyota in 2017 but the VW leaving messed it all up and he went to M-sport. It was all good at M-sport until the COVID, after that it was basically money saving project, you could only test if you had the money to pay for Wilson, otherwise not. He was supposed to start Rally Greece with Ford but Malcolm simply didnt have a car because there wasnt enough workforce to prepare the car.

About the new Hyundai test-base, hopes to help them there and says that the roads or one the best around Jämsä and Tänak chose the roads.

He did a simulator tests for M-sport for Rally1 machine but hasnt seen the real machine.

He wasn’t treated nicely in msport last full season year. They couldn’t test and participate on smaller rallies but the team wanted TOP3 results from him. The interviewer then asks if Loeb could have won with the previous generation car Teemu says that it should be clear to all that he could have not.
It was even that bad that they didn’t even have normal breakfasts and meals from the team.

[WRCStan]

Betsafe seem to be pretty good at this job.

[cali]

Betsafe seem to be pretty good at this job.They have the best sports journalist in Estonia doing and creating all the content. The guy is a bright sunny spot in a quite dull scenery. Miles ahead of all the other bunch. Glad to see he's doing stuff in other languages as well.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[TypeR]

friend said that one thing was quite interesting.
Mr Kruus asked about the rumour if Hyundai will pull the plug..?
Suninen said that he can't confirm or deny that..
May be that he really doesn't know, but maybe has heard something.

[AnttiL]

friend said that one thing was quite interesting.
Mr Kruus asked about the rumour if Hyundai will pull the plug..?
Suninen said that he can't confirm or deny that..
May be that he really doesn't know, but maybe has heard something.

I think it was a double question like "are there tough times at Hyundai, maybe they will quit before the end of the year" and Suninen might have replied to the first part.

[AnttiL]

im also half way through or even less, he did only total 3 test days with the new Ford R5 back in 2019!!! Said that in his opinion it was wrong to go straight to Rally Estonia that year with that R5. This year he has done 6 days alone with the Hyundai R5.

I thought three test days was referring to his WRC season, and he went to Rally Estonia completely without testing the new Rally2 car.

[TypeR]

I think it was a double question like "are there tough times at Hyundai, maybe they will quit before the end of the year" and Suninen might have replied to the first part.
Oh, okay. Thanks for specifying that!

Anyway, sounds like cool interview. Waiting for English subs.

[Allez Andruet]

Well that was a fantastic interview, hats off to everyone involved. The best thing about Suninen (from a fan's perspective) is that he ain't that good at talking BS. Ofcourse he knows what can be said and what not, but he often answers in a way where the audience can atleast get a hint about how things really are, no matter how bold the question would be.

I'm not 100% sure, but was this the first time the "public secret" from 2016 was confirmed, that the original plan (before VW's shock exit) for TGR in 2017 was to run Suninen in the role that was eventually given to Lappi once JML became available?

Btw, regarding the topic that was also briefly touched during the interview, Suninen is just brilliant in his new WRC commentator role on Finnish media outlet CMore. Really looking forward to hear him again in Sweden.

[rp]

I'm not 100% sure, but was this the first time the "public secret" from 2016 was confirmed, that the original plan (before VW's shock exit) for TGR in 2017 was to run Suninen in the role that was eventually given to Lappi once JML became available?


It was so public that did not remember that maybe this was 1st time confirmed :)

[EstWRC]

It was indeed fantastic, like user Cali said, the guy is above everyone else in Estonia regarding commentating and interviews and journalism.

As Kalle lives also in Estonia, then i hope that the next one is with him. SOme guys in the comment section have also recommended it as next one

[SubaruNorway]

Well that was a fantastic interview, hats off to everyone involved. The best thing about Suninen (from a fan's perspective) is that he ain't that good at talking BS. Ofcourse he knows what can be said and what not, but he often answers in a way where the audience can atleast get a hint about how things really are, no matter how bold the question would be.

I'm not 100% sure, but was this the first time the "public secret" from 2016 was confirmed, that the original plan (before VW's shock exit) for TGR in 2017 was to run Suninen in the role that was eventually given to Lappi once JML became available?

Btw, regarding the topic that was also briefly touched during the interview, Suninen is just brilliant in his new WRC commentator role on Finnish media outlet CMore. Really looking forward to hear him again in Sweden.

Latvala talks about it in the WRC podcast

[AnttiL]

I'm not 100% sure, but was this the first time the "public secret" from 2016 was confirmed, that the original plan (before VW's shock exit) for TGR in 2017 was to run Suninen in the role that was eventually given to Lappi once JML became available?

At least in Kristian Sohlberg's twitch interview of Suninen.

[er88]

It was so public that did not remember that maybe this was 1st time confirmed :)I remembered it being knowledge without ever openly being spoken about in the media. Whereas Meeke to sign a multi year deal with Toyota in 2016 was more widely spoken about publicly, because Shitroën wanted it known mostly.

Citroen managed to persuade Meeke to stay by offering him wrc starts in 16, which they didn't initially want to do.

I bet Meeke regrets his decision - although you can't take away his wins that season. And I guess Suninen is also wondering how differently things could have been if he got in at Toyota too.

[AnttiL]

Suninen was also offered a seat at Skoda's WRC2 team for 2017, but with the condition that he lets Tidemand win the title.

[er88]

Suninen was also offered a seat at Skoda's WRC2 team for 2017, but with the condition that he lets Tidemand win the title.I've critisiced skoda in the past for trying to manipulate which of their factory drivers wins the titles..., but was shut down on here "as it not being possible".

[AnttiL]

I've critisiced skoda in the past for trying to manipulate which of their factory drivers wins the titles..., but was shut down on here "as it not being possible".

2016 WRC2 score
Suninen 120
Tidemand 85

Both had the same car, except Suninen’s was prepared by Oreca.

[mknight]

With regards to 2017 Toyota lineup.

Joukhi was Latvalas and Suninens manager (and previously Makinens). While Lappi was managed by Veiby.

So it seems pretty clear that Joukhi "sacrificed" Suninen for Latvala. Hardly a surprising choice on his part.

[Allez Andruet]

So it seems pretty clear that Joukhi "sacrificed" Suninen for Latvala. Hardly a surprising choice on his part.
Don't know about that. If Jouhki was about to sacrifice his own clients he probably would not have been in the biz as long as he has. Maybe he was looking at the "big picture" and with no competitive miles driven with 2017-spec cars, putting Latvala in a Yaris with the prospect of Suninen doing few events in a Fiesta wasn't such bad deal to start with. One thing we have to remember about Jouhki is that even though he has obvious and self-admitted financial targets in rally managering, his family business is worth a lot more than what the rally part could ever produce. I.e. there's no need to try and squeeze the last euro out of every contract each and every year.

[flat_right]

Btw, regarding the topic that was also briefly touched during the interview, Suninen is just brilliant in his new WRC commentator role on Finnish media outlet CMore. Really looking forward to hear him again in Sweden.

This was the part that interested me. Teemu mentioned that maybe he talked out too much secrets. Maybe someone heard something interesting?

And about the Betsafe interview then I also think it was very good. And also that Teemu can't talk BS. If the interviewer knew something about the background (for example the breakfast situation in M-Sport) and could describe it something along the lines then Teemu just confirmed it.

And just out of interest, how is Kalev Kruus's Finnish? Sometimes it felt that he is trying to remember some expressions etc but in general it felt smooth.

[Allez Andruet]

This was the part that interested me. Teemu mentioned that maybe he talked out too much secrets. Maybe someone heard something interesting?
I didn't catch any secrets as such on the Monte coverage. He was more telling about things like what kind of approach mixed tires require and stuff like that.


And just out of interest, how is Kalev Kruus's Finnish? Sometimes it felt that he is trying to remember some expressions etc but in general it felt smooth.
Smooth is an understatement. Yeah, maybe he was trying to remember some specific catchphrases at times, but it definitely didn't make any difference.

[SubaruNorway]

Don't know about that. If Jouhki was about to sacrifice his own clients he probably would not have been in the biz as long as he has. Maybe he was looking at the "big picture" and with no competitive miles driven with 2017-spec cars, putting Latvala in a Yaris with the prospect of Suninen doing few events in a Fiesta wasn't such bad deal to start with. One thing we have to remember about Jouhki is that even though he has obvious and self-admitted financial targets in rally managering, his family business is worth a lot more than what the rally part could ever produce. I.e. there's no need to try and squeeze the last euro out of every contract each and every year.

The sacrifice was what happened if i don't remember wrong, 2 hours long so couldn't find it now
https://open.spotify.com/episode/4Lvk4bQRj0r6Uyggd9JWMj

[becher]

So the plan for 2017 was Lappi and Hänninen full season and Suninen a partial season?

[becher]

According to Rallye Magazin Ypres will be on the calender in august.

[mknight]

So the plan for 2017 was Lappi and Hänninen full season and Suninen a partial season?

Imagine that.

They did some big changes after Latvala started in December, maybe those wouldn't happen before homologation.
Without experienced drivers on top of that maybe they wouldn't get a podium before Finland.

Would Tanak then change if he was n1 at MSport?Very likely not. But it is possible Latvala or someone else would switch for 2018 (Meeke?). Still the Toyota WRC project saga would look quite different.

[AnttiL]

Also remember that 2017 was supposed to be Toyota's development year. They didn't aim for wins. What happened in Sweden 2017 was a surprise to them, and likely aided by Latvala's last minute tweaks.

[AnttiL]

And just out of interest, how is Kalev Kruus's Finnish? Sometimes it felt that he is trying to remember some expressions etc but in general it felt smooth.

Very good. I LOL'd at when he asked Suninen whether he said too much at CMore and perhaps someone asked him to "shut up" ("turpa kiinni") because it's such a strong idiom. :D

Such a good interview.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Ypres Rally confirmed for the last 2022 slot.

[Lancia Stratos]

Ypres Rally confirmed for the last 2022 slot.

News here: https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/belgium-added-to-2022-fia-world-rally-championship/

[Tom K]

The Barum's candidature is quite surprising.

[mknight]

Too bad.
For an Alllive viewer Ypres was utterly boring to watch the first two days, same just looking at results.

Hopefully the itenary is different and/or the weather is more tricky that would make it interesting.
(same as Monza 2020 vs 2021)

[becher]

Too bad.
For an Alllive viewer Ypres was utterly boring to watch the first two days, same just looking at results.

Hopefully the itenary is different and/or the weather is more tricky that would make it interesting.
(same as Monza 2020 vs 2021)

It wasn't all that exciting in person as well to be honest, although I suspect Ypres needs expirience of the stages to find the right spots.

[sti123]

Too bad.
For an Alllive viewer Ypres was utterly boring to watch the first two days, same just looking at results.

Hopefully the itenary is different and/or the weather is more tricky that would make it interesting.
(same as Monza 2020 vs 2021)

Most boring rally to watch at AllLive for last 5 years, really bad desicion.

[AnttiL]

Huttunen working on Rally1 start in Finland, but nothing is confirmed

https://www.rallit.fi/jari-huttunen-fordin-rally1-hybridilla-suomen-mm-ralliin-asiasta-on-keskusteltu/

[dimviii]

AbstraxiDesign
@AbstraxiDesign
We are proud to present our wrap design for a unique car - Ford Puma Rally1 - which represents a new era in WRC - the hybrid era. Jourdan Serderidis will be behind the wheel. We can't wait to see him live on the rally stages! #PumaRally1 #WRC #jourdanserderidis #msport #Rally1

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMJN5GiXEAchKWf?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMJN4z9X0AEwlEV?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Andre Oliveira]

It looks FIA GRR is officially dead.

[Sulland]

It looks FIA GRR is officially dead.

Why?

[cali]

Pardon my french and ignorance but what is GRR?

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Sulland]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/fia-launches-global-rally-ranking-system-from-2022/

[pantealex]

Pardon my french and ignorance but what is GRR?



+1

Never heard about GRR

[WRCStan]

+1

Never heard about GRR

See page 13 or Sulland's link.

Maybe the innovation fund money is going to eWRC now :D ;)

[AnttiL]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-relation-situation-ukraine

Russians still allowed to compete in FIA events

[rp]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-relation-situation-ukraine

Russians still allowed to compete in FIA events

Unbelievable! Not a convincing start for Mohammed Ben Sulayem.

[dupanton]

It's not like these drivers can change anything about the war, can they?
Putin wouldn't care if a Russian can or can't drive in F1 or WRC.

[AnttiL]

I think it's more about representing the country and marketing the local sponsors.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's a bit tricky sanctioning individuals who are not representing that country. They may well oppose the invasion of Ukraine and want peace, like Lukyanuk for example.

Gryazin has also driven under a neutral flag of the RAF (Russian Automobile Federation) for quite some time. He has a Latvian background.

[br21]

They all should be banned, simple!
Gryazin was driving with RAF flag as he was not allowed to drive with russian flag. He was sometimes using Latvian just to make his life easier. But always he was carrying on his car "from russia with love" sentence and always his starts were paid by russian oligarch.

[wyler]

i got that in f1 drivers can enter without representing flag, while teams and sponsorship are banned...maybe i got it wrong!

[WRCStan]

I'm getting vibes of "keep politics out of sport - unless it's something we care about". Sport should continue and switch venues for safety where appropriate. Let the government bodies and economic war make the decisions. I don't know much about ice hockey but I'll bet it wasn't a sporting context that led to the demand the Russians be kicked out of that league. Sad that some Polish footballers won't play against Russia too. As for rally, the Russian boys mentioned might be complete asshats not worthy of support, but then so could anybody. I wanted to see them on the stages before Putin's war and so still do.

[logic]

They all should be banned, simple!
Gryazin was driving with RAF flag as he was not allowed to drive with russian flag. He was sometimes using Latvian just to make his life easier. But always he was carrying on his car "from russia with love" sentence and always his starts were paid by russian oligarch.


Lets ban people from the uk and dubai and isreal and the us while we at it because they did no end of foolishness as well and isreal still doing bad things to palistine.

[EstWRC]

Former Hyundai factory driver Hayden Paddon will compete on a World Rally Championship event for the first time since 2019 after securing a deal to compete in WRC2 this year.

Paddon last appeared in the WRC on Rally GB in 2019, driving for M-Sport in an R5 Fiesta, and has more recently been working with Hyundai New Zealand to develop the world’s first electric rally car, the Kona EV.

But he will now switch back to a standard combustion engine, competing on selected WRC2 events throughout the year with Hyundai New Zealand in a Hyundai i20 N Rally2 car, with a view to competing full-time in the championship in 2023


“We are delighted to work with Hyundai New Zealand as we embark on a two-year WRC2 campaign with the new Hyundai i20 N Rally2 car,” said Paddon.

“This year we have planned a campaign which allows us to get up to speed with the awesome i20 N Rally2 car, the car’s development and team development, before undertaking a full seven-round campaign in 2023 with the sole goal of winning that championship title.”

Paddon’s first outing with Hyundai New Zealand will be on Rally Estonia in July, followed by Rally Finland in August, before tackling his home event, Rally New Zealand on September 29, and he will retain his long-time co-driver John Kennard.

This isn’t the first time Paddon has attempted to reboot his WRC career since his Rally GB appearance in 2019. He was set for a four-round WRC program – Portugal, Sardinia, Finland and New Zealand – at the wheel of a customer i20 Coupé WRC in 2020 until the COVID-19 pandemic derailed his plans.


“I’m really looking forward to rallying in Europe again!”

“We have been trying so hard over the past two years to get back to the WRC. It’s been tough with everything going on in the world.

“So together with Hyundai New Zealand we decided to take matters into our own hands, and launch a Kiwi team to take on the WRC2.

“I am really excited about doing this campaign with our own team. Of course it’s going to be challenging but we have a clear target for this two-year program and we will be putting our best foot forward to try and achieve that.”

“Without the support of Hyundai New Zealand, both our WRC2 campaign and the general health of rallying in New Zealand would not be where it is today, so I am hugely humbled for their faith in us to attempt to bring home a world title.

“And, of course, the return of WRC Rally New Zealand will be exciting for everyone, being a key ‘must do’ sporting event in New Zealand this year.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/paddon-joins-wrc2-part-time-in-privateer-hyundai/?fbclid=IwAR1Njz7oQg-MSfIPY3vs-benEz_owF-OtYVMKYDnbOPPT6_qFDQ9k6itM2Q

[TypeR]

WRC2 list will be very nice!

add Suninen also in summer

[Fast Eddie WRC]

After all that work him and his team did to develop an electric Hyundai Kona, Paddon is switching back to driving old tech. What was the point ?

[TypeR]

After all that work him and his team did to develop an electric Hyundai Kona, Paddon is switching back to driving old tech. What was the point ?

Old tech? Newest i20 rally2 car that one can race with.
Building electric car was his own project.
What should he do if there is no EV class in WRC? He can drive it in NZ and some small rallies, but not WRC..

[AnttiL]

Paddon has kept racing in NZ with his AP4 car all the time and planned to return to WRC in 2020. It’s not like he’s EV only.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I know all this, but what was the e-Kona built for when he knew there was no Class ? Seems he got no benefit from it at all.

[AnttiL]

It’s a more long term project

[the sniper]

I know all this, but what was the e-Kona built for when he knew there was no Class ? Seems he got no benefit from it at all.

Why do you think he got nothing out of it?

[Mk2 RS2000]

Future proofing and ever thought that he may have been doing some development work for Hyundai. There is a lot more skills and knowledge around the rest of the world than you acknowledge it is not all stuck the UK and Europe

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/status/1501482037953314818

#WRC #YpresRally Belgium organisation confirmed NO Spa Francorchamps circuit for 2022 edition

[Fast Eddie WRC]

FIA to address calls for WRC hybrid regulation changes

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/fia-to-address-calls-for-wrc-hybrid-regulation-changes/9041457/

[Eli]

A few changes following today’s WMSC meeting in Bahrain:

FIA World Rally Championship

Following the introduction of the new Rally1 hybrid cars at the top level of the discipline, the first of a series of proposals have been approved with the aim to adjust the sporting regulations on the basis of the findings and assessments made at the Monte-Carlo and Sweden rounds.

In order to permit WRC crews to identify, in the event of a hybrid issue, the Hybrid Electric Vehicle refuge points on special stages where assistance is available, a bespoke sign with the black HEV letter on blue background has been created and can be found under Appendix I.

The allocation of an additional day of testing for the 2022 season has been granted, following consultation between the FIA and the manufacturers based on the initial development cycles of the Rally1 car.

The penalty for re-start after retirement as a result of a safety issue to the Rally1 hybrid unit operating within the defined tolerances permitted has been set to 2 minutes for every stage missed, instead of the normal 10-minute penalty.

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-25

[TypeR]

doesn't really change too much. retired for day anyway because of some third party batteries.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Can the car still be used with the ICE only if there is a red light on the hybrid ?

[AnttiL]

Can the car still be used with the ICE only if there is a red light on the hybrid ?

No

[Fast Eddie WRC]

No

So if you get a red light like Tanak did you are out just the same ?

[TypeR]

So if you get a red light like Tanak did you are out just the same ?
Yes.
Only instead of 10min penalty per stage, now it's 2min

[SubaruNorway]

Can the car still be used with the ICE only if there is a red light on the hybrid ?
I assume a red light can mean something like the battery has a voltage leak, when i went to Ford training we dismantled a Mustang Mach-E battery that 150v leak into the frame of the battery.

[flat_right]

This is a joke! What is the difference between 10 minutes and 2 minutes? Nothing! If it doesn't happen on the last stage of the day, you are still so behind that the only thing you can do is to compete for PS points.

[WRCStan]

This is a joke! What is the difference between 10 minutes and 2 minutes? Nothing! If it doesn't happen on the last stage of the day, you are still so behind that the only thing you can do is to compete for PS points.

A decision by committee if ever there was one.

[rallyfiend]

If a tyre from the control tyre supplier fails you don't get a break....

Of it the fuel from the control fuel supplier fails...

[wyler]

This is a joke! What is the difference between 10 minutes and 2 minutes? Nothing! If it doesn't happen on the last stage of the day, you are still so behind that the only thing you can do is to compete for PS points.

manu's complained for nothing and fia give just gave a "diplomatic" response: you argue, we reply in your favor, nothing really changes. all happy.

[TypeR]

If a tyre from the control tyre supplier fails you don't get a break....

Of it the fuel from the control fuel supplier fails...
Teams can take up to 2 spares with them.
Fuel fails? so often.
If you run out of tyres or fuel fails, you can't drive further. That's it.

If the HY decides to go in error, the car is still able to drive.
Teams can't do anything else(to improve the system themselves) than just hope that it works. If it fails then Compact Dynamics guy says that bad luck and maybe they can drive some time back next day :D

[AnttiL]

Teams can take up to 2 spares with them.
Fuel fails? so often.
If you run out of tyres or fuel fails, you can't drive further. That's it.


I think we just had a big arguement a year ago about driving with just three intact tyres...nothing actually stops you from continuing, other than the rules.

Anyway I would have gone with notional times, but with someone inspecting the car for other damage and stewards checking onboard for possible incidents.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

They need to make some simple way of totally disconnecting the hybrid system and making the car safe in the event of a red light.

It could then be driven with the ICE only for the rest of the rally.

[PLuto]

They need to make some simple way of totally disconnecting the hybrid system and making the car safe in the event of a red light.

It could then be driven with the ICE only for the rest of the rally.

Easiest way should be to demount the hybrid system completely :D

[SubaruNorway]

Yeah it's not that easy unfortunately, on a road car you have a pul switch that makes the circuit breakers in the battery flip open and disconnect the battery (if they work as normal) but you still have to check that there's no voltage anywhere before you can tell if the car is safe

[flat_right]

I think when we will be back in Croatia Rally and someone asks Tänak about this decision, he will give some ironic answer like "best decision ever" or "what a well spent time in that meeting".

[AnttiL]

Finally a good way to decide road order :D

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/cat-n-mouse-stage-set-to-determine-road-order/

[wwbroe]

Finally a good way to decide road order :D

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2022/wrc/cat-n-mouse-stage-set-to-determine-road-order/

Good april 1 joke:D

[WRCStan]

It looks FIA GRR is officially dead.

Any further news or announcement, or has this been quietly brushed under the rug?

[WRCStan]

Any further news or announcement, or has this been quietly brushed under the rug?

Updated regional regs published yesterday:

"FIA GLOBAL RALLY RANKING
Deleted"

Now it's official.

[wyler]

Oliver Solberg

"Great news to start the week! As you know we won’t be driving the Rally1 car at Rally de Portugal ���� so instead we will be competing in a Hyundai i20 N Rally2 in a Monster Energy-backed entry so we can keep building experience and get as many kms as we can to prepare for the future! ��
This is a ‘bonus’ entry for us and we’re really thankful for Hyundai Motorsport and everyone’s support to make this happen! ��"

[Andre Oliveira]

Hyundai cancelled the PET in Portugal today. Rumours about big discussion with Ott (the driver that was to drive today).

[EstWRC]

Ouch https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmauxs-rally-portugal-entry-in-doubt/

[EstWRC]

Hyundai cancelled the PET in Portugal today. Rumours about big discussion with Ott (the driver that was to drive today).

He didn’t want to drive today then or what’s the issue?

[wyler]

In the meanwhile, Sordo confirmed for Italy:

��*�� Here is our plan for the rally after next - the line-up for Rally Italia Sardegna ����!
1️⃣1️⃣ Thierry Neuville / Martijn Wydaeghe ����
8️⃣ Ott Tänak / Martin Järveoja ����
6️⃣ Dani Sordo / Cándido Carrera ����

[the sniper]

Ouch https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmauxs-rally-portugal-entry-in-doubt/

“You can’t just keep turning up to the workshop and saying sorry, but this is a junior team and when we’re developing young drivers these are the difficulties we face."

If they had Meeke driving they'd at least be a more competitive team, while facing those difficulties. ;)

[er88]

Ouch https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmauxs-rally-portugal-entry-in-doubt/Granted he can't keep crashing, but I feel Msport have had the wrong approach with Fourmaux. Crashing in Monte is not unusual for anyone - it happens. Fourmaux in his 1st ever time in a competitive wrc car got a bit too keen hunting great stage times. Then a crash in one of the most chaotic tarmac rallies in history.

The Msport press was OTT surrounding that Monte off with Fourmaux helping rebuild the car etc etc, and now he's being publicly threatened by the team over his future after 3 events (one where the car failed him iirc) . No wonder he is a bag of nerves.

I also have an issue with this approach from Msport because they're the ones who chose to give Fourmaux the drive - knowing full well he's bringing backing, he's a rookie, and he was crashing last season on tarmac. They could've given better drivers the seat instead...., if they didn't realise this might be a problem...

[mknight]

One possibility is that things have changed.

-During Croatia there was a clip of Ford boss getting a ride in Puma with Breen. Afterwards he said how good it was to see a team doing everything to win.
- MSport won the first rally and led manus, so the car seems competetive and the team could theoretically aim for titles.

Ford after seeing Monte results wonders why the next two rallies are "back to 2021/2020". Possibly even putting some pressure on Malcolm or getting him to wonder himself.

Bad for Fourmaux cause he definitely isn't ready to be a stable points scorer.

They have Loeb for Portugal though, so I don't see a lineup change happening. Maybe just not nominating him for manus. Would be great if they swapped him with Hutunen though, but he just had terrible rally. (I really doubt they will let Mikkelsen drive for free or even pay him).

[doubled1978]

I couldn’t help feeling that this mistake might have been one too many in this number of events. I like Fourmaux and I believe he has got the ability, but he is clearly in a perilous position now. In the article it rather reads like he will be driving something other than a Puma in Portugal, Rally2 possibly, and maybe that will be a good thing to take him out of the firing line for a rally or two.
MSport must be feeling the heat that after the Monte fanfare they have shown pretty much nothing for two rallies with what most believe to be a very good car.
I can see a safe pair of hands such as Mikkelsen getting a drive or two.

[wyler]

Granted he can't keep crashing, but I feel Msport have had the wrong approach with Fourmaux. Crashing in Monte is not unusual for anyone - it happens. Fourmaux in his 1st ever time in a competitive wrc car got a bit too keen hunting great stage times. Then a crash in one of the most chaotic tarmac rallies in history.

The Msport press was OTT surrounding that Monte off with Fourmaux helping rebuild the car etc etc, and now he's being publicly threatened by the team over his future after 3 events (one where the car failed him iirc) . No wonder he is a bag of nerves.

I also have an issue with this approach from Msport because they're the ones who chose to give Fourmaux the drive - knowing full well he's bringing backing, he's a rookie, and he was crashing last season on tarmac. They could've given better drivers the seat instead...., if they didn't realise this might be a problem...

it really depends on what the "mission" was. if the mission was bringing home the car, even with bad times ( and it could have been a good strategy, just as katsuta) so it's for sure annoying for m-sport. if the mission was to show some pace at the cost of binning it, that's completely another story, but i doubt this would be the case. i think the general idea was pretty much make km with a pace similar -or challenging- greensmith. and i think this was the idea for the entire season, unless dry tarmac maybe.

[Danny0405]

Personnally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to give him one rally off (the discussion is not about firing him); it has already been applied for other drivers in a bad streak even if it was more experienced drivers (Duval, Meeke, Latvala) and generally, it worked (at least on the short-term).

The streak since the end of last year is very bad (even if Sweden is not his fault); with Camilli, they try another strategy and, even if there was a little improvement at one moment, it failed in the end.

The sure thing is that they cannot do as if nothing happens.
I suppose that they are also discussing with Red Bull as M-Sport can absolutely not take this decision without Red Bull agreement (financing Fourmaux program + Loeb’s drives and can also be useful in the future for other drivers). In that sense, Mikkelsen could be an option as he still has some links with Red Bull so it could avoid tensions about the Red Bull-MSport «*contract*»

[Jarek Z]

Is there something wrong about how works teams choose new drivers these days? First Katsuta and Arai at Toyota, then Lefebvre and Camilli, now Fourmaux... Have they ever won anything important before joining works teams?

For example, if you look at WRC2 results from Croatia, both Lefebvre and Camilli were beaten by Rossel, Kajto, Lindholm, Gryazin and Ingram quite easily:
https://rally-base.com/2022/croatia-rally-2022/?ssId=6794&cupId=161&ssGroupId=1

Arai and Katsuta can't even win a single ERC event, but were chosen for works drivers...

[Danny0405]

Is there something wrong about how works teams choose new drivers these days? First Katsuta and Arai at Toyota, then Lefebvre and Camilli, now Fourmaux... Have they ever won anything important before joining works teams?

For example, if you look at WRC2 results from Croatia, both Lefebvre and Camilli were beaten by Rossel, Kajto, Lindholm, Gryazin and Ingram quite easily:
https://rally-base.com/2022/croatia-rally-2022/?ssId=6794&cupId=161&ssGroupId=1

Arai and Katsuta can't even win a single ERC event, but were chosen for works drivers...

Not sure your comparison is right: don’t forget than since 2016 (as you’re evoking Camilli), drivers such as Rovanpera and Lappi has been launched in WRC also. Breen also.
And Camilli and Suninen were in the best drivers in WRC-2 when they were competing there (same for Tidemand). Hanninen was also a good RC2 driver even if he is a special case.

Don’t also forget that the dominant drivers in RC2 are Ostberg and Mikkelsen in the last years.
+ Arai has never been a RC1 driver, he was fired at the RC2 level after dropping in form (especially after Katsuta won WRC-2 Sweden). And we know why Katsuta has a works drive.
And also, the context was not the same when Lefebvre and Camilli were launched (an increase in the number of works seat so there was a lack of drivers whereas it is the contrary now).

Also the example you’re taking about Croatia is not good has Camilli and Lefebvre had issues and punctures (as in Monte-Carlo, they were among the best in terms of pure speed).

The only point I really agree with you is that there is at least two drivers that are clearly interesting for having a chance at RC1 level for next year if they confirm their potential in 2022: Rossel and Lindholm. Before end of last year, they were a little short in terms of rhythm for Rossel and consistency for Lindholm but, now, they seem much better. So clearly I hope they can obtain at least a 6-7 rounds RC1 program next year.
Other drivers sound not that convincing comparing with their experience (Gryazin, Ingram, ...) or too much of a prospect (Cais, Linnamae, ...). I don’t talk about Kajto who is too old (and not the best RC2 driver).

[Jarek Z]

Not sure your comparison is right: don’t forget than since 2016 (as you’re evoking Camilli), drivers such as Rovanpera and Lappi has been launched in WRC also.

But Lappi was already Finnish, European and WRC2 champion when he was hired by Toyota. That's the difference that I wanted to point out.

[ouvreur]

Personnally, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to give him one rally off (the discussion is not about firing him); it has already been applied for other drivers in a bad streak even if it was more experienced drivers (Duval, Meeke, Latvala) and generally, it worked (at least on the short-term).

When you say "it worked", define "worked"? All of those drivers can be described as having had massive potential, huge speed, great opportunities, and... careers littered with failure.

Not one of them made the most of the chances and cars they had access to. All of them were put under immense pressure for their perceived weaknesses, and shared habit of turning their cars into expensive paperweights. Even if being made to sit out a rally or two had the positive effect to 'fire them up' briefly, I'd argue that in the long run it did more damage than good. They all seemed to be trying too hard, too often - and tended to crack when the pressure started to build.

The only driver you could truly say responded well to a period of adversity and being made to take a step back is Ott Tanak. And he was PROPERLY benched, down into national rallies, before he started to get his act together... that was a Malcolm decision, maybe we shouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to Fourmaux.

[Danny0405]

When you say "it worked", define "worked"? All of those drivers can be described as having had massive potential, huge speed, great opportunities, and... careers littered with failure.

It is why I added «*at least on short-term*»
- Duval, before his two-rally ban by Citroen, did one 4th place and 5 bad results (retirement or out of top 10). In the last 8 rounds of this year, he did one win, three 2nd place and only one result out of the points (retirement)
- Latvala, first 4 rallies: 1 win, 2 retirements and one 13th position before his one-rally ban by M-Sport. In the last 8 rounds, he did 6 podiums including one win and only one results out of top 10.
- Meeke is less spectacular but before his one rally-ban in 2017, he did one win (only result in top 10), 4 retirements and two results out of top 10. In the last 5 rallyes of the season, he did one win, three other results 7-8th place and only one retirement.

So yeah, on a short-term approach, it worked and they improved their result.
But then, on the long-term approach, if they don’t have a championship-material mind (or acquire it), it changes nothing. It’s not because of a one-rally ban that they were not world champion.
I don’t say a one-rally ban is a miracle solution; but I say it could help to drop pression and improve results after that. With Camilli, they try another solution and it failed, even with a small improvement in the middle of the season.
The other solution is to fire him completly (at least from RC1); but it sounds too radical at this stage all the more with Red Bull backing (maybe the question will be valuable at the end of the season).

[JRodrigues]

So, it seems Tanak missed the team tests, but the discussion is if Fourmaux could get the boot?

[Danny0405]

But Lappi was already Finnish, European and WRC2 champion when he was hired by Toyota. That's the difference that I wanted to point out.

The issue is that if you take a look to the last ERC and WRC-2 champions, they don’t have the same pedigree than Lappi generally
Kajto - already quite old when he wins his 1st title
Lukyanuk - even older
Kopecky - the same
Ingram - ok, he was younger but he wins his title with no rally win which is a little annoying when we know WRC-2 level is globally higher than ERC (I insist on the «*globally*» term, I don’t say all drivers in all contexts)
Mikkelsen - already a former WRC driver
Ostberg - the same
Rovanpera - is in Toyota
Tidemand - could have had a better chance I recognize (but he completly drops after his WRC exit)

So yeah, to launch a new driver nowadays, you have to take some risks because there are much good experienced drivers in support categories at world or European levels (or young drivers have more difficulties to beat them depending on we saw it).

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The only driver you could truly say responded well to a period of adversity and being made to take a step back is Ott Tanak. And he was PROPERLY benched, down into national rallies, before he started to get his act together... that was a Malcolm decision, maybe we shouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to Fourmaux.

Elfyn Evans was also dropped to an R5 car in the British Rally Championship and has come back to the very top level.

Re Fourmaux, he has a lot more pressure to produce than the likes of Katsuta and Solberg.

[TWRC]

Ouch https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmauxs-rally-portugal-entry-in-doubt/
Wow, this is very interesting wording from Millener. Basically goes from 0 to 100 and back. Also the fact that he said many things, but at the same time said basically nothing.
This is a bit alarming to me, and might also show that they have absolutely no idea what to do with him, and how to correct the situation.

[PLuto]

Not sure your comparison is right: don’t forget than since 2016 (as you’re evoking Camilli), drivers such as Rovanpera and Lappi has been launched in WRC also. Breen also.
And Camilli and Suninen were in the best drivers in WRC-2 when they were competing there (same for Tidemand). Hanninen was also a good RC2 driver even if he is a special case.

Don’t also forget that the dominant drivers in RC2 are Ostberg and Mikkelsen in the last years.
+ Arai has never been a RC1 driver, he was fired at the RC2 level after dropping in form (especially after Katsuta won WRC-2 Sweden). And we know why Katsuta has a works drive.
And also, the context was not the same when Lefebvre and Camilli were launched (an increase in the number of works seat so there was a lack of drivers whereas it is the contrary now).

Also the example you’re taking about Croatia is not good has Camilli and Lefebvre had issues and punctures (as in Monte-Carlo, they were among the best in terms of pure speed).

The only point I really agree with you is that there is at least two drivers that are clearly interesting for having a chance at RC1 level for next year if they confirm their potential in 2022: Rossel and Lindholm. Before end of last year, they were a little short in terms of rhythm for Rossel and consistency for Lindholm but, now, they seem much better. So clearly I hope they can obtain at least a 6-7 rounds RC1 program next year.
Other drivers sound not that convincing comparing with their experience (Gryazin, Ingram, ...) or too much of a prospect (Cais, Linnamae, ...). I don’t talk about Kajto who is too old (and not the best RC2 driver).

Rossel and Lindholm over Gryazin and Ingram? Based on what? On results in Croatia?

[the sniper]

Is there something wrong about how works teams choose new drivers these days? First Katsuta and Arai at Toyota, then Lefebvre and Camilli, now Fourmaux... Have they ever won anything important before joining works teams?

For example, if you look at WRC2 results from Croatia, both Lefebvre and Camilli were beaten by Rossel, Kajto, Lindholm, Gryazin and Ingram quite easily:
https://rally-base.com/2022/croatia-rally-2022/?ssId=6794&cupId=161&ssGroupId=1

Arai and Katsuta can't even win a single ERC event, but were chosen for works drivers...

There's something wrong with it, but it's not a case of backing the wrong horse, having not identified the best of the best. Arai and Katsuta were chosen because they were the best Japanese options when they needed a Japanese prospect. Their seats were never intended to be allocated purely on merit, unfortunately. But their seats/entries probably wouldn't exists at all if they weren't being paid for with the intention of filling them with someone Japanese, so nobody lost any opportunity out of it.

It's like the situation with Gus Greensmith at various points. Would his seat exist to be filled if he weren't paying for it?

Likewise with the French guys, would they have got their works seats without their backing or their nationality (particularly in the case of Lefebvre)?


Re Fourmaux, he has a lot more pressure to produce than the likes of Katsuta and Solberg.

The French 'development' system got broken by Loeb and Ogier being unnaturally good, mere talented mortals couldn't replicate their great leaps forward to the big league, for which they are considered failures.

[dimviii]

The French 'development' system got broken by Loeb and Ogier being unnaturally good, mere talented mortals couldn't replicate their great leaps forward to the big league, for which they are considered failures.

+1
although its wrong to compare every new French (or not) hope with Loeb and Ogier.
You cant have every decade a new one.
It happened for 2 decades,will not happen for ever.

[PLuto]

+1
although its wrong to compare every new French (or not) hope with Loeb and Ogier.
You cant have every decade a new one.
It happened for 2 decades,will not happen for ever.

I think it was not only french development system, but mainly Citroen development system. Next one from this system is Thierry Neuville. And for this development system they have lost also one of the key person - Philippe Bugalski...

[Danny0405]

Rossel and Lindholm over Gryazin and Ingram? Based on what? On results in Croatia?

Here is the way I classify the young drivers (it’s my opinion, not an absolute truth).
I consider that there is, at the moment, 10 drivers that could reach the Rally1 level in the next 2 years. This excludes a potential skyrocketing progression of another driver and drivers with WRC experience such as Mikkelsen and Suninen that cannot be compare.

Then I classify them in 4 different categories depending on their experience (number of years with a serious R5-Rally2 program, number of rally starts, number of WRC starts in a R5-Rally2 car, number of ERC starts in a R5-Rally2 car).

The «*very experienced young drivers*»: Gryazin, Veiby

The «*experienced young drivers*»: Rossel, Lindholm, Huttunen. I consider that the gap in terms of experience with the former category corresponds to around 1 season of Rally2 development.

The «*hybrid young drivers*»: Ingram, Bulacia, Ciamin. Their figures are not that different than the Lindholm-Huttunen-Rossel group but they have a special context that justifies the difference, which corresponds, IMO, to 1 season of Rally2 development.

The prospects: Linnamae, Cais. I consider the gap with the hybrid category to be 1 season of Rally2 development.

Then, I take a look to the results (consistency, speed and level of the car).
For the last 5 drivers I quote, I consider that, at the moment, their level are a little slow to compete for a Rally1 drive (they are not able to really compete for a WRC rally RC2-class win in a normal context so it would be as sending Fourmaux in the Rally1 car). For me, to be a competitor for Rally1 car, you must be able to compete for Rally2 class wins, at least on some fields. But then, if they progress, they can be candidate (and overtake the others) because they all have some potential.

Then, when I take the experienced and very experienced chaps, the last months (or even years) from Huttunen and Veiby were quite complicated for different reasons (personal, quality of the car, ...) so it’s difficult to put them in the contest at the moment.

So it lets Gryazin, Rossel and Lindholm. When I take a look at the result since the beginning of 2021 season in WRC (because it’s the best competition to compare them), for me (and again it’s only my opinion), they are pretty equal: yeah, Gryazin is probably faster (but Lindholm can also be really quick) but Rossel is more consistent and at a good speed also. In terms of versatility, I would put Gryazin and Lindholm slightly over Rossel because the French doesn’t drive in fast gravel and snow.
+ through the last 14 months, I see more progress from Lindholm and Rossel than from Gryazin.

So globally, in terms of current level, they are pretty much the same for me; but as Gryazin has one additional year of development, I consider that Rossel and Lindholm have more potential so, if I was Toyota or Hyundai boss and I had a 7-round Rally1 program to give to prepare the future, I would give him to one of them (for sure, M-Sport’s situation is not the same because of the financial aspects). Ok, I can admit that the Lindholm-Gryazin call is a close one.

[djip]

Here is the way I classify the young drivers (it’s my opinion, not an absolute truth).
I consider that there is, at the moment, 10 drivers that could reach the Rally1 level in the next 2 years. This excludes a potential skyrocketing progression of another driver and drivers with WRC experience such as Mikkelsen and Suninen that cannot be compare.

Then I classify them in 4 different categories depending on their experience (number of years with a serious R5-Rally2 program, number of rally starts, number of WRC starts in a R5-Rally2 car, number of ERC starts in a R5-Rally2 car).

The «*very experienced young drivers*»: Gryazin, Veiby

The «*experienced young drivers*»: Rossel, Lindholm, Huttunen. I consider that the gap in terms of experience with the former category corresponds to around 1 season of Rally2 development.

The «*hybrid young drivers*»: Ingram, Bulacia, Ciamin. Their figures are not that different than the Lindholm-Huttunen-Rossel group but they have a special context that justifies the difference, which corresponds, IMO, to 1 season of Rally2 development.

The prospects: Linnamae, Cais. I consider the gap with the hybrid category to be 1 season of Rally2 development.

Then, I take a look to the results (consistency, speed and level of the car).
For the last 5 drivers I quote, I consider that, at the moment, their level are a little slow to compete for a Rally1 drive (they are not able to really compete for a WRC rally RC2-class win in a normal context so it would be as sending Fourmaux in the Rally1 car). For me, to be a competitor for Rally1 car, you must be able to compete for Rally2 class wins, at least on some fields. But then, if they progress, they can be candidate (and overtake the others) because they all have some potential.

Then, when I take the experienced and very experienced chaps, the last months (or even years) from Huttunen and Veiby were quite complicated for different reasons (personal, quality of the car, ...) so it’s difficult to put them in the contest at the moment.

So it lets Gryazin, Rossel and Lindholm. When I take a look at the result since the beginning of 2021 season in WRC (because it’s the best competition to compare them), for me (and again it’s only my opinion), they are pretty equal: yeah, Gryazin is probably faster (but Lindholm can also be really quick) but Rossel is more consistent and at a good speed also. In terms of versatility, I would put Gryazin and Lindholm slightly over Rossel because the French doesn’t drive in fast gravel and snow.
+ through the last 14 months, I see more progress from Lindholm and Rossel than from Gryazin.

So globally, in terms of current level, they are pretty much the same for me; but as Gryazin has one additional year of development, I consider that Rossel and Lindholm have more potential so, if I was Toyota or Hyundai boss and I had a 7-round Rally1 program to give to prepare the future, I would give him to one of them (for sure, M-Sport’s situation is not the same because of the financial aspects). Ok, I can admit that the Lindholm-Gryazin call is a close one.

nice analysis. I would personnaly rate Rossel with the biggest potential. He has been on an upwards trajectory since the second half of 2021 (remember he won twice the overall WRC2/WRC3 class and also managed to pull a lasdt minute in for the WRC3 title in Monza which shows some mental strength as well). So far this year he has been very good : Crushing win in Croatia, and a small mistake aside, he was in the fight with Mikkelsen in Monte. The chap seems to combine speed, brain and composure whereas other youugnsters so far may lack one or more element. We'll see how the season unfold but ii would be surprised if he is not in the top2 of WRC2 (maybe beating a very experienced Mikkelsen is a hard nut to crack ...)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The French 'development' system got broken by Loeb and Ogier being unnaturally good, mere talented mortals couldn't replicate their great leaps forward to the big league, for which they are considered failures.

This is not the pressure I was talking about - it's the fact that he has to produce points for M-Sport.

Fourmaux is effectively their No.2 driver to Breen (with Greensmith being a pure pay driver who's seat is guaranteed).

[dimviii]

nice analysis. I would personnaly rate Rossel with the biggest potential. He has been on an upwards trajectory since the second half of 2021 (remember he won twice the overall WRC2/WRC3 class and also managed to pull a lasdt minute in for the WRC3 title in Monza which shows some mental strength as well). So far this year he has been very good : Crushing win in Croatia, and a small mistake aside, he was in the fight with Mikkelsen in Monte. The chap seems to combine speed, brain and composure whereas other youugnsters so far may lack one or more element. We'll see how the season unfold but ii would be surprised if he is not in the top2 of WRC2 (maybe beating a very experienced Mikkelsen is a hard nut to crack ...)

agree,the way he controlled the gap he had create,was amazing at such a difficult rally.I ll watch him better at next rallies.

[PLuto]

nice analysis. I would personnaly rate Rossel with the biggest potential. He has been on an upwards trajectory since the second half of 2021 (remember he won twice the overall WRC2/WRC3 class and also managed to pull a lasdt minute in for the WRC3 title in Monza which shows some mental strength as well). So far this year he has been very good : Crushing win in Croatia, and a small mistake aside, he was in the fight with Mikkelsen in Monte. The chap seems to combine speed, brain and composure whereas other youugnsters so far may lack one or more element. We'll see how the season unfold but ii would be surprised if he is not in the top2 of WRC2 (maybe beating a very experienced Mikkelsen is a hard nut to crack ...)

Problem of Rossel is different surface than tarmac...

[Danny0405]

Problem of Rossel is different surface than tarmac...

Let’s see in Portugal and Sardinia as he will probably do the same program than last year with Spain instead of Monza.
But from what he showed last year, I would not be that sure; I think he is in the game with Kajto and Bulacia for example and better than Ingram (and better, for now, than the youngsters Linnamae and even more Cais).
Also do not forget than his result was even better in Croatia this year than last year (it is why I say he made some progress, combined with his Monte drive where he was on fight for top stop this year before his mistake) so he may improve on slow gravel also.

Then yeah, on fast gravel, his level is probably not really good as he almost never did one... as most of the young French; but not this year than we can evaluate I think as I would be surprised to see him in Estonia or Finland.
It is why I put Lindholm not that far: Lindholm sounds more versatile about surface and his speed can be incredible sometimes (Gryazin also but I’m less impressed with one more year of development)

[WRCStan]

If the FFSA is funding Fourmaux significantly then that is probably what has brought this will he/won't he up. Same with Solans in Spain. Who else is backed by their state?

[pantealex]

Re Fourmaux, he has a lot more pressure to produce than the likes of Katsuta and Solberg.

In my mind Solberg has biggest pressure.
Son of very popular World Champion "Hollywood"
Always compared to Kalle, I have rarely seen anyone comparing Formaux to Kalle.

Loubet arriving to MSport clearly added Formaux pressure.

[djip]

Problem of Rossel is different surface than tarmac...

If i recall, he won the overall WRC2/WRC3 in Greece last year before being disqualified for a technicality on his car ... This is what brought down the winner-take-all finale at Monza with Katjo, otherwise he would have walked away with the title. But true to say that we'll have to await a few gravel events before claiming too much. My point being : He looks more well-rounded and with a higher ceiling than other youngster.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

In my mind Solberg has biggest pressure.
Son of very popular World Champion "Hollywood"
Always compared to Kalle, I have rarely seen anyone comparing Formaux to Kalle.

Loubet arriving to MSport clearly added Formaux pressure.

Solberg has grown up with this family background. He doesnt see any pressure from this. More it's a big support and almost a guarantee of a seat somewhere.

[TypeR]

Fourmaux keeps the place in WRC car for Portugal!
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmaux-keeps-his-m-sport-place-for-rally-portugal/

[Portimao]

Fourmaux keeps the place in WRC car for Portugal!
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fourmaux-keeps-his-m-sport-place-for-rally-portugal/

I feel like it's his last chance.

[AnttiL]

I believe he gets to do full season in any case…

[the sniper]

I feel like it's his last chance.

Only if his budget has run out, fixing the car, surely?

[er88]

It's too early to ditch Fourmaux as I do think he has "something". But I can see him benched or dropped to rally 2 for rallies like Estonia /Finland. Can't go there on a crashing streak devoid of any confidence.

[wyler]

btw, i know it has been talked about before, but i really think m-sport roadbook series is the best thing that happened in rally media in ages. it should be mandatory for all teams and made official wrc free to air content.

[SubaruNorway]

btw, i know it has been talked about before, but i really think m-sport roadbook series is the best thing that happened in rally media in ages. it should be mandatory for all teams and made official wrc free to air content.

Subaru's Launch control is an even better example of how it can be done
https://youtu.be/Cq1bkdBLUVc

[wyler]

Subaru's Launch control is an even better example of how it can be done
https://youtu.be/Cq1bkdBLUVc

nice, but too much "netflix" style for me. i find the greatest thing in roadbook that is plain real, no fx, no glitter, no motivational intro speech, just the sport.

[Tom K]

4-day format for Acropolis, visit in Athens, SSS on Olympic Stadium, Friday near Corinthia plus night stage, Saturday and Sunday in Lamia area.

[DoN_cz]

4-day format for Acropolis, visit in Athens, SSS on Olympic Stadium, Friday near Corinthia plus night stage, Saturday and Sunday in Lamia area.

and rally base (service park) in ... Lamia?

[WRC1]

4-day format for Acropolis, visit in Athens, SSS on Olympic Stadium, Friday near Corinthia plus night stage, Saturday and Sunday in Lamia area.

any Info on Shakedown Location?

[MartijnS]

Close to Lamia..km shorter than last years shakedown so probably not the same one.

[wyler]

again rumors of Lancia comeback to rally in mid term future, this time more conspicous...
this time is lancia ceo to state there's the opportunity to do do it, but needs time and to "be good in doing homework".
also hint to reviving hf branded car for lancia sport section...

italian media: http://www.areacorse.com/lancia-ritorno-ai-rally/

[jiipee64]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zlE_Jwy7Fw

Pajari on a hot seat.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

24/7 WRC TV channel in 2023

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-to-launch-24-7-tv-channel-next-year/

[the sniper]

24/7 WRC TV channel in 2023

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-to-launch-24-7-tv-channel-next-year/

It'll be interesting to see how they fill the hours, presumably they're going to be doing far more with archive footage. That would only be a good thing.

Still, such a thing has been talked about for 20 years, so it'll be funny if it finally happens.

[Franky]

It'll be interesting to see how they fill the hours, presumably they're going to be doing far more with archive footage. That would only be a good thing.

Still, such a thing has been talked about for 20 years, so it'll be funny if it finally happens.

It would be nice if they'd first will the tiny breaks between the stages. In the beginning they did but then it became map or slideshow filler.

With TV channel just wonder how they'll deal with the existing rights deals or the TV part is only for markets where no one has bought the TV rights.

[WRCStan]

24/7 WRC TV channel in 2023

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/wrc-to-launch-24-7-tv-channel-next-year/


“We want to reach the people and we have just heard the plans for the new channel.

“We have to reach people we have to appeal to all of the people who can see the [rally] cars look similar to the their cars, but they are not normal cars. We cannot forget that this sport is about speed but it is also about entertainment .”

:rotflmao: MBS wasting no opportunity to denounce the Rally1s.

[AndyRAC]

It'll be interesting to see how they fill the hours, presumably they're going to be doing far more with archive footage. That would only be a good thing.

Still, such a thing has been talked about for 20 years, so it'll be funny if it finally happens.

As it's behind a paywall, I'm not sure how they're going to grow new markets......

[Danny0405]

Not a big news but after the cancellation of Rally Raid Kazakhstan, the Andalucia Rally Raid has been postponed to autumn due to heat wave.
The only impact for the WRC is that it adds some load to Loeb end of season program whereas he was supposed to do New Zealand or Catalunya as his 4th and last rally this season.

[KiwiWRCfan]

The only impact for the WRC is that it adds some load to Loeb end of season program whereas he was supposed to do New Zealand or Catalunya as his 4th and last rally this season.

Loeb has previously said he will not do New Zealand which is just one week after Chile round of Xtreme E

[wyler]

Important rumors are coming in regarding the entry of new brands into the FIA World Rally Championship. [...] Various options are on the table and, unfortunately, we have to mention electric. For WRC fans it would be heresy if the championship became full electric, but the automotive market is moving in that direction. Luca De Meo (president and CEO of Renault-Alpine) and Jörg Schrott (head of Opel Motorsport) had declared their interest in an all-electric World Rally Championship. Alongside Alpine and Opel we may also see Škoda. The Czech manufacturer is currently working hard on the all-new Fabia Rally2 but, according to Motorsport.com, would be talking with the FIA and the WRC promoter about future regulations.

partly translated from ita media
https://www.tuttipazziperilmotorsport.it/wrc-skoda-motorsport-interessata-al-campionato-solo-se-diventera-elettrico-2/

[WRCStan]

Are there any reports on full electric zones for Rally1s being scrapped?

[Eli]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/die-luft-fuer-die-rallye-deutschland-wird-noch-duenner-48552/

Chances for Rally Deutschland are looking slimmer & slimmer for 2023 & beyond with the promoter looking to expand the calendar to the USA. “ Spain, Croatia, Portugal, Estonia and Ireland wrestle around the remaining places.” Tbh and no offence to Rally Estonia and it’s fans, I’d replace it’s slot with Germany, I still think it’s a unique Tarmac event and I hope it gets back on the calendar sooner rather than later.

[WRCStan]

https://www.rallye-magazin.de/wrc/artikel/die-luft-fuer-die-rallye-deutschland-wird-noch-duenner-48552/

Chances for Rally Deutschland are looking slimmer & slimmer for 2023 & beyond with the promoter looking to expand the calendar to the USA. “ Spain, Croatia, Portugal, Estonia and Ireland wrestle around the remaining places.” Tbh and no offence to Rally Estonia and it’s fans, I’d replace it’s slot with Germany, I still think it’s a unique Tarmac event and I hope it gets back on the calendar sooner rather than later.

Is the Tennessee event an established one?

[Eli]

Is the Tennessee event an established one?

I honestly have no idea, just saw some news on Rally Deutschland so I thought I might share them.

[Franky]

Guess it would be the Bristol Forest Rally, which has run twice.

[focus206]

Choosing a tiny event in USA with few international entries, almost no homologated local cars and almost no rally culture over Rallye Deutschland, which has all of that... just for the sake of having another event outside Europe, who cares. World championship should also mean the best rallies of the world, not just rallies all around the world.

[Eli]

Choosing a tiny event in USA with few international entries, almost no homologated local cars and almost no rally culture over Rallye Deutschland, which has all of that... just for the sake of having another event outside Europe, who cares. World championship should also mean the best rallies of the world, not just rallies all around the world.

Couldn't agree with you more, and I definitely think we should have Rallye Deutschland back as soon as possible, if not 2023, then 2024.

[WRCStan]

What I read:


Choosing a tiny event in USA with few European entries, almost no European cars and almost no European rally culture over Rallye Deutschland, which has all of that... just for the sake of having another event outside Europe, who cares. World championship should mean the European rallies of the world, not just rallies all around the world.

[Eli]

On that subject: http://planetemarcus.com/une-manche-wrc-usa-dans-les-cartons-de-la-fia/

"Two events, one on asphalt (Germany) and the other on gravel (USA) which could overshadow Estonia, which has not yet signed an agreement like Belgium, which remains on a provisional substitute status."

[focus206]

What I read:

"Few European entries" means few entries, because vast majority of overall entries on WRC events are European.
"almost no European cars" (Toyota, Hyundai?) means almost no cars, because in USA there's very few Rally 2, Rally 3, Rally 4 cars.
"almost no European rally culture" means almost no rally culture. Whether one likes it or not, Europe makes up 90%+ of world rallying.
If one wants to go outside of Europe there's NZ, Australia, Japan, Argentina etc... they'll have much less entries than Deutschland, but they're better alternatives than Tennessee, and they deserve few spots in the calendar. No offence to the Tennessee fans.

[WRCStan]

"Few European entries" means few entries, because vast majority of overall entries on WRC events are European.
"almost no European cars" (Toyota, Hyundai?) means almost no cars, because in USA there's very few Rally 2, Rally 3, Rally 4 cars.
"almost no European rally culture" means almost no rally culture. Whether one likes it or not, Europe makes up 90%+ of world rallying.
If one wants to go outside of Europe there's NZ, Australia, Japan, Argentina etc... they'll have much less entries than Deutschland, but they're better alternatives than Tennessee, and they deserve few spots in the calendar. No offence to the Tennessee fans.

Any round has to be world class, agreed. I can't say for Tennessee.

Much of what you speak of though is a feedback loop from having a Euro-centric World championship. Vast majority of entries are European? No shit! Every Superbowl winning team has been American! Rally pyramid homologations are not needed in a WRC-free US, regs are causing a stand-off.

No rally culture in the US? Block and Pastrana were highlighted as the biggest rally stars on social media. Subaru are doing the netflix/prime thing many are calling for in WRC. (Subaru are doing the netflix/prime thing instead of WRC!!) Nobody rivals Dirtfish for global reach in the rally journalism space.

Why is the Rally2/3/4 entry list important? Genuinely. WRC should revolve around the highest class rally surely? Attract a global audience and more manufacturers, grow the sport, don't choke it. As much as I love seeing European privateers, they don't need to tie down world rallying if they don't want to rally the world.

[focus206]

Much of what you speak of though is a feedback loop from having a Euro-centric World championship. Vast majority of entries are European? No shit! Every Superbowl winning team has been American! Rally pyramid homologations are not needed in a WRC-free US, regs are causing a stand-off.


WRC is a Euro-centric world championship, it has always naturally been like that. For many years the championship has visited NZ, Australia, Argentina, Kenya etc. and we've only had a handful of non-European regulars who were able to reach the top class. And continental championships like APRC, CODASUR always get very few entries.
Superbowl is an American championship event, isn't it? I don't see the correlation, I don't think any foreign team can even take part?



No rally culture in the US? Block and Pastrana were highlighted as the biggest rally stars on social media. Subaru are doing the netflix/prime thing many are calling for in WRC. (Subaru are doing the netflix/prime thing instead of WRC!!) Nobody rivals Dirtfish for global reach in the rally journalism space.


Block and Pastrana are highlighted as rally stars because they're (other than internet TV/personalities) American/anglophone. When it was up to them to show their value in WRC, they did pretty bad. Countries like Spain or Italy have much bigger rally culture and much faster rally drivers, but guess what, nobody will hail their local rally drivers as superstars. First because they're not stunt drivers / TV hosts / Youtubers, second because nobody cares about Spanish and Italian medias abroad as they have little reach.
In a big country like USA, where they speak the international language and with their medias having huge reaches, all they can offer is 2 rather mediocre stunt/rally drivers and Dirtfish. You can find rally culture in Namibia as well, it doesn't mean it's enough for WRC.



Why is the Rally2/3/4 entry list important? Genuinely. WRC should revolve around the highest class rally surely? Attract a global audience and more manufacturers, grow the sport, don't choke it. As much as I love seeing European privateers, they don't need to tie down world rallying if they don't want to rally the world.

I don't find a rally entered by just 10-11 Rally 1 entries, or little more, worthy of a world championship. And I don't see how going to Tennessee will attract manufacturers (who, Chevrolet?). Even if you'd go there for multiple seasons, it probably wouldn't change a thing. In the 80's there was the Olympus Rally: from those years, we didn't get any regular WRC American competitors nor American brand joining.
To me a way to choke the championship would be adding many non-European events: costs go up, we lose manufacturers, we lose plenty of European Rally 2 regulars (who will be reduced to run just few events), for what? Maybe 1 or 2 non European drivers doing some events and probably no new manufacturer (I can only imagine Chinese manufacturers as 100% new entries).

[WRCStan]

We have different philosophies, that's fine. I'm 99% sure any US round won't even make candidacy point, but if it does we can pick up this topic then.

[TypeR]

Ofcourse WRC should go to the States..
Can't be worse than Kenya's startlist or less spectators than in Australia..

Motorsport sells in US and local stars like Block and Pastrana can make it more interesting to fans. Add Oliver to the list, who has driven in Subaru team..

As been to the States many times and really loved it, I'm sure it will be great event!

[pantealex]

Ofcourse WRC should go to the States..
Can't be worse than Kenya's startlist or less spectators than in Australia..

Motorsport sells in US and local stars like Block and Pastrana can make it more interesting to fans. Add Oliver to the list, who has driven in Subaru team..

As been to the States many times and really loved it, I'm sure it will be great event!

Actually Mexico ( = American event) has had worse entry list than Safari has (Mexico has had less than 30 entries even with all NAT rally cars counted)

I´m OK with USA event but don't get your expectations too high.

[1988senna]

if ogier is out of WEC. will he return to full time WRC again ?

[Eli]

if ogier is out of WEC. will he return to full time WRC again ?

Wouldn’t hold my breath for it, he might do an extra event this year but he said at the end of last year and the beginning of this one that he intends to spend more time with his family.

[AndyRAC]

Wouldn’t hold my breath for it, he might do an extra event this year but he said at the end of last year and the beginning of this one that he intends to spend more time with his family.

That's why he's ended his season - to spend more time with the family. I also suspect a third LMH Toyota isn't happening, and he's not quick enough for a seat in the two Toyota entries; so no point in carrying on.

[Eli]

Question now is, who will be their (Toyota’s) third driver for next year?

[1988senna]

it's ogier so I guess we don't need to treat his word as serious as other body. He had nothing to do in next year .I just feel even the Toyota also wish him to come back as the Evens maybe will lose the seat.
I think ogier is the only man can beat kalle in consistent .

[1988senna]

Question now is, who will be their (Toyota’s) third driver for next year?

I don't think evens can carry on with Toyota for this year's performance

[AnttiL]

I don't think evens can carry on with Toyota for this year's performance

How long is his contract?

Also, his two previous seasons were very good.

I believe you are wrong.

[Eli]

How long is his contract?

Also, his two previous seasons were very good.

I believe you are wrong.

I think he's signed for Toyota until the end of 2023.

[Tauri_J]

I don't think evens can carry on with Toyota for this year's performance

And who can replace him? He has had a bad season but no way Toyota lets him go.

WRC has four fulltime Tier1 drivers and Toyota has two of them. They would be in a serious disadvantage after doing that.

[Corcaíoch]

Even with a poor season so far Evans has shown plenty over the last few seasons to justify his position at Toyota. Even if Tanak or Neuville were to join (the only 2 better options in my opinion) there would be a strong argument to be made to keep Evans as fulltime 3rd driver.

[1988senna]

How long is his contract?

Also, his two previous seasons were very good.

I believe you are wrong.

sorry for my incorrect statement, what I mean is evens will become a part time driver if ogier full time back and tanak's return in next year

[WRCStan]

The way it's going Toyota can field 2 cars next year, one being Taka, and still win everything.

[1988senna]

Even with a poor season so far Evans has shown plenty over the last few seasons to justify his position at Toyota. Even if Tanak or Neuville were to join (the only 2 better options in my opinion) there would be a strong argument to be made to keep Evans as fulltime 3rd driver.

actually I feel the part time job with Lappi is better for Evens at the moment,if ogier and tanak back to Toyota.there is really no full seat for him

[bandit12]

Why do you think that Toyota needs Tanak?

[Eli]

Why do you think that Toyota needs Tänak?

And didn't Ogier say he's done with full time career as a WRC driver? He'll be 39 by the end of the year, I doubt he'll want to go back full time after doing this last hurrah goodbye season.

[AnttiL]

sorry for my incorrect statement, what I mean is evens will become a part time driver if ogier full time back and tanak's return in next year

And Rovanperä?

:D

[AnttiL]

And didn't Ogier say he's done with full time career as a WRC driver? He'll be 39 by the end of the year, I doubt he'll want to go back full time after doing this last hurrah goodbye season.

No, I think he hinted he could return. His son goes to school in the fall so now he has more time to spend with him. Also I think he already saw that WEC is not so easy.

[Eli]

No, I think he hinted he could return. His son goes to school in the fall so now he has more time to spend with him. Also I think he already saw that WEC is not so easy.

For a single season?

[denkimi]

Why do you think that Toyota needs Tanak?
To replace evans. Ok, rovanpera is carrying the team on his own, but this may not always be the case.
Without kalle, we would not be talking of toyota dominance right now.

I made the calculations of the season so far, but without rovanpera:

Neuville 98
Katsuta 83
Evans 77
Tanak 75
Breen 69
Sordo 38
loeb 38
ogier 38
Greensmith 36
Solberg 13
Loubet 8
Fourmaux 5

[TypeR]

To replace evans. Ok, rovanpera is carrying the team on his own, but this may not always be the case.
Without kalle, we would not be talking of toyota dominance right now.

I made the calculations of the season so far, but without rovanpera:

Neuville 98
Katsuta 83
Evans 77
Tanak 75
Breen 69
Sordo 38
loeb 38
ogier 38
Greensmith 36
Solberg 13
Loubet 8
Fourmaux 5
Without Toyota and Hyundai, M-Sport would be leading the championship 1-2-3 :O

[Eli]

Without Toyota and Hyundai, M-Sport would be leading the championship 1-2-3 :O

Add Citroën in to the mix and it still wouldn't change that ;)

[denkimi]

Without Toyota and Hyundai, M-Sport would be leading the championship 1-2-3 :O
And if they were riding bikes it would be cycling.

But that is not the point. The point is that all kalle's teammates are horribly underperforming. We see evans and katsuta having less than half the points of kalle, but the ogier/lappi combination is actually even worse with only 51 points.

They are lucky that hyundai is screwing it up even worse. Only kalle is keeping them afloat.

[Eli]

And if they were riding bikes it would be cycling.

But that is not the point. The point is that all Kalle's teammates are horribly under-performing. We see Evans and Katsuta having less than half the points of Kalle, but the Ogier/Lappi combination is actually even worse with only 51 points.

They are lucky that Hyundai is screwing it up even worse. Only Kalle is keeping them afloat.

Well that's it isn't it? if Hyundai's car wouldn't keep breaking a part we might've actually got to see a championship fight on our hand, at least for the manufacturers if not for Thierry & Ott against Kalle, just think how many times have the car let them down when they were fighting at the front? Even in Monte, at least Thierry there could get a podium if not for all his troubles. Also, I honestly don't see how Hyundai are serious about getting that manufacturers title when for most of the year they have a 3rd driver in what you could say his rookie season, but all of that should be discussed in the Hyundai thread.

[mknight]

Ogier likely has motivation for more starts. He has not won with Rally1 yet, unlike Loeb which certainly really pisses him off. Only Monte was a performace he can be satisfied with.

Evans should improve reliability, Kinda looks like he felt this was his chance for title after Ogier and before Rovanpera improves and "stressed" too much.

But imo biggest pressure at Toyota is on Lappi. Before this season he was known to bring results on fast loose surface rallies while being unreliable both in terms of speed and crashes elsewhere...and then he crashed on both "elsewhere" rallies (Croatia, Sardinia). If Ogier wants more starts, it might become harder for Lappi to even get these opportunities and he risks getting stuck in "Sordo like" position.

[Eli]

Ogier likely has motivation for more starts. He has not won with Rally1 yet, unlike Loeb which certainly really pisses him off. Only Monte was a performance he can be satisfied with.

Evans should improve reliability, Kinda looks like he felt this was his chance for title after Ogier and before Rovanperä improves and "stressed" too much.

But imo biggest pressure at Toyota is on Lappi. Before this season he was known to bring results on fast loose surface rallies while being unreliable both in terms of speed and crashes elsewhere...and then he crashed on both "elsewhere" rallies (Croatia, Sardinia). If Ogier wants more starts, it might become harder for Lappi to even get these opportunities and he risks getting stuck in "Sordo like" position.

Yes, finishing 40ish on the last two occasions doesn't do any favours for Lappi, hopefully he can get back on top in Estonia & Finland, mind you they already have a fast Finn, so if Lappi gets the opportunity in Ypres, he really, really needs to perform there.

[mknight]

That's the problem.
If Ogier wants more rallies how many rallies that are not fast gravel will there be for Lappi? Ypres would be extremely difficult to do well on with very little experience (one start in 2014 with crash from 3rd).
Greece is maybe most likely and again Lappi has little experience there.

Catalunya is a rally Ogier likes (and Lappi has bad record on) and he will want to do Toyota home rally.

[Danny0405]

Personally, I don’t think the market will move before Greece. There are the rumors about Hyundai, no no-brainer prospect in Rally2 and some disappointing drivers in Rally1 so far in the ones with no guaranteed future (Lappi, Fourmaux, Greensmith, Solberg) + what will do the old guys (Sordo, Loeb, Ogier).
And the big 5 is under contract.
So teams have interest to wait and see for the summer.

At the moment, I would say that for Toyota the best move is the following one:
- 1st car: Kalle for sure
- 2nd car: Evans. When you have the next big thing and the best car in the hands, I don’t see the point to take Tanak or Neuville with the risk of impacting relation with Kalle. And, whatever we can say, Evans is the best of the rest at the moment in terms of speed.

I don’t see Ogier coming back full-time but sounds like he could make a part-time job.
Lappi is a bit disappointing so far and it will be complicated for Latvala to resist to Japanese pressure if Katsuta does a rather good second half ... but he is a bit slow on tarmac.

So I would say Katsuta full-year between 3rd and 4th car (as Hyundai did with Paddon at the beginning of his career with 2nd/3rd car).
With
3rd car: shared between Ogier (5/6 rounds with 3 tarmac) and Katsuta (7/8 rounds)
4th car: shared between Katsuta (5/6 rounds) and a young driver with no Rally1 experience (Rossel, Huttunen, Lindholm, Ingram) for 6/8 rounds.

Sounds the best balance for me

[Eli]

That's the problem.
If Ogier wants more rallies how many rallies that are not fast gravel will there be for Lappi? Ypres would be extremely difficult to do well on with very little experience (one start in 2014 with crash from 3rd).
Greece is maybe most likely and again Lappi has little experience there.

Catalunya is a rally Ogier likes (and Lappi has bad record on) and he will want to do Toyota home rally.

Lappi has no experience of Greece, only Turkey & the only saving grace for Lappi is NZ (which we'll hopefully get to!!) & if Japan is yet again cancelled (which I hope it won't be), they'll get Monza again which I doubt Ogier would like to do.

[Eli]

Personally, I don’t think the market will move before Greece. There are the rumors about Hyundai, no no-brainer prospect in Rally2 and some disappointing drivers in Rally1 so far in the ones with no guaranteed future (Lappi, Fourmaux, Greensmith, Solberg) + what will do the old guys (Sordo, Loeb, Ogier).
And the big 5 is under contract.
So teams have interest to wait and see for the summer.

At the moment, I would say that for Toyota the best move is the following one:
- 1st car: Kalle for sure
- 2nd car: Evans. When you have the next big thing and the best car in the hands, I don’t see the point to take Tanak or Neuville with the risk of impacting relation with Kalle. And, whatever we can say, Evans is the best of the rest at the moment in terms of speed.

I don’t see Ogier coming back full-time but sounds like he could make a part-time job.
Lappi is a bit disappointing so far and it will be complicated for Latvala to resist to Japanese pressure if Katsuta does a rather good second half ... but he is a bit slow on tarmac.

So I would say Katsuta full-year between 3rd and 4th car (as Hyundai did with Paddon at the beginning of his career with 2nd/3rd car).
With
3rd car: shared between Ogier (5/6 rounds with 3 tarmac) and Katsuta (7/8 rounds)
4th car: shared between Katsuta (5/6 rounds) and a young driver with no Rally1 experience (Rossel, Huttunen, Lindholm, Ingram) for 6/8 rounds.

Sounds the best balance for me

We also have another piece of the puzzle, if Tänak isn't signed for next year at Hyundai, where does that leave him? Going back to M-Sport? Assuming Toyota stays with their line-up.

[mknight]

I also think Toyota will stay the same. Ogier +Lappi sharing should actually work. The only problem is that it gets Lappi "stuck" at only the fast rallies (a bit like Breen in Hyundai).
You'd be crazy to change Lappi for Huttunen or Ingram. Probably still a bit early for Lindholm or Rossel and Toyota does not need a new developing driver yet. Mikkelsen might be better allrounder, but not for fast gravel only. So there isn't really anyone to pick unless some massive disaster happens for Evans or Lappi.

Toyota does not need Tanak at this point at all either. And I would guess Japan has some bad feelings towards him.
It's MSport or Hyundai.

[1988senna]

I also think Toyota will stay the same. Ogier +Lappi sharing should actually work. The only problem is that it gets Lappi "stuck" at only the fast rallies (a bit like Breen in Hyundai).
You'd be crazy to change Lappi for Huttunen or Ingram. Probably still a bit early for Lindholm or Rossel and Toyota does not need a new developing driver yet. Mikkelsen might be better allrounder, but not for fast gravel only. So there isn't really anyone to pick unless some massive disaster happens for Evans or Lappi.

Toyota does not need Tanak at this point at all either. And I would guess Japan has some bad feelings towards him.
It's MSport or Hyundai.

Toyota don't need tanak yes .but tanak need Toyota for sure if he really didn't have the contract with Hyundai . if he can decrease the salary and apply for the return .I don't think any team will refuse tanak . Makkinen is gone and I guess Mr toyoda still favour tanak

[steve.mandzij]

I think everyone is being harsh on Lappi. Yes, he has had two bad rallies in a row, but a great podium in Sweden did just what he was there for (get the points for the team), he set fastest times in Croatia (with better position, but on tarmac, a historically bad surface for him), and he might have had bad luck in Portugal but he was very much on the pace. For having jumped back into WRC after a year in R5, into a completely new car, speed wise he has delivered (and the reigning champion himself has had a bad spell as well, esp. Sardegna).

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Eli]

I think everyone is being harsh on Lappi. Yes, he has had two bad rallies in a row, but a great podium in Sweden did just what he was there for (get the points for the team), he set fastest times in Croatia (with better position, but on tarmac, a historically bad surface for him), and he might have had bad luck in Portugal but he was very much on the pace. For having jumped back into WRC after a year in R5, into a completely new car, speed wise he has delivered (and the reigning champion himself has had a bad spell as well, esp. Sardegna).

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

Exactly the oppposite, I want to see him do well & succeed, and I want to see him next year full time if that’s possible in a competitive car. So I really hope he gets a good round of results for the upcoming rallies. By the way, someone here mentioned he’ll do Greece, I don’t think that will be the case since A) Ogier is no longer doing a WEC season & B) if Loeb is there, it’s hard for me to see Ogier give up to beat Loeb on a rally he has recent experience ( & which Lappi didn’t do last year).

[AnttiL]

You'd be crazy to change Lappi for Huttunen or Ingram. Probably still a bit early for Lindholm or Rossel and Toyota does not need a new developing driver

Crazy to suggest Ingram for top class, let’s see him win WRC2 first. Or even the class in one rally. Or just a stage…

For the record I don’t think Lindholm is ready either.

[Eli]

I think that unless anything drastic happens/ Evans or Lappi seriously underperform for the rest of the season, Toyota won’t change their line-up, Hyundai on the other hand will be interesting to watch, hopefully they’ll still be there to watch.

[WRCStan]

'Tis silly season then.

[Eli]

'Tis silly season then.

If we had a fourth team it would be crazy season ;)

[Sergiow]

I think that unless anything drastic happens/ Evans or Lappi seriously underperform for the rest of the season, Toyota won’t change their line-up, Hyundai on the other hand will be interesting to watch, hopefully they’ll still be there to watch.

It will be interesting to watch what happens at FORUM8 Rally Japan in November. If Hyundai ultimately can steal victory here from Toyota, then that will be worth more than the world crown because what is at stake at Rally Japan is nothing more than Asian Manufacture leadership

[Eli]

It will be interesting to watch what happens at FORUM8 Rally Japan in November. If Hyundai ultimately can steal victory here from Toyota, then that will be worth more than the world crown because what is at stake at Rally Japan is nothing more than Asian Manufacture leadership

I hope we get to Japan this time round, they've been robbed a WRC round since 2019, and I truly hope we don't get to Monza for a third year running.

[Rally Hokkaido]

I hope we get to Japan this time round, they've been robbed a WRC round since 2019, and I truly hope we don't get to Monza for a third year running.

A few days ago the Rally Japan Organiser announced on their website and social media that ticket sales will start on 16th July (only on their Japanese language news page).

[Eli]

A few days ago the Rally Japan Organiser announced on their website and social media that ticket sales will start on 16th July (only on their Japanese language news page).


Fingers crossed we get there this time!!! and that covid won’t spoil the party (again).

[Eli]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-26

FIA World Rally Championship

"In the Sporting Regulations, the time to repair retired P1 cars was increased to a maximum of four hours with the option to split this window into a maximum of two slots (the amount of time per section being at the discrepancy of the team). This will enable team personnel to optimize the workload before and after the evening service and allow additional time for them to work on the car, due to more complex procedures with Rally1 hybrid vehicles.

Clarification was brought to the high-voltage operational safety procedures for quarantine, recovery supervision and “red car” exercise, reflecting the best practice developed on the basis of the experience gathered at WRC events since the launch of the Rally1 in January.

With a view to saving costs for the organisers and following sensible sustainability policies, road books must now be available digitally before the rally, as opposed to printed and sent by mail to the competitors.

In the Technical Regulations, proposals related to the opening of the rear window and roof vent of Rally1 cars, which require the support of the Homologation Commission, were approved to address the challenges of cockpit temperatures experienced at the last rallies.

FIA Rally Commission

Technical and Homologation Regulations for the fully electric FIA Rally5e cars were approved, with the group to be divided into two classes depending on the car’s battery capacity (lower or bigger than 60 kWh). This first-ever category of electric rally cars aims to remain close to production models, in the same way as the Rally5 for ICE cars."

[wyler]

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-announces-world-motor-sport-council-decisions-26



Technical and Homologation Regulations for the fully electric FIA Rally5e cars were approved, with the group to be divided into two classes depending on the car’s battery capacity (lower or bigger than 60 kWh). This first-ever category of electric rally cars aims to remain close to production models, in the same way as the Rally5 for ICE cars."

rumors of interested manus: opel (already have e-corsa), renault, skoda, m-sport

[Eli]

rumors of interested manus: opel (already have e-corsa), renault, skoda, m-sport

Yep I think Alpine said they would give it a try if there was electricity involved.

[mknight]

As I said before I think the idea of "as cheap as possible" electric car like the e-corsa is extremely boring for spectators. At minimum they need to have noticably more power than similar class petrol cars.(top speed can be limited in rules/electronically).

A Rally2 -like class similar to Baumschlagers Fabia is imo a much better idea.

[PLuto]

A Rally2 -like class similar to Baumschlagers Fabia is imo a much better idea.

Better idea? With that price?

[WRCStan]

As I said before I think the idea of "as cheap as possible" electric car like the e-corsa is extremely boring for spectators. At minimum they need to have noticably more power than similar class petrol cars.(top speed can be limited in rules/electronically).

A Rally2 -like class similar to Baumschlagers Fabia is imo a much better idea.

That'll come in time, but it's not what Corsa-e, Rally5/e etc are trying to be.

[wyler]

As I said before I think the idea of "as cheap as possible" electric car like the e-corsa is extremely boring for spectators. At minimum they need to have noticably more power than similar class petrol cars.(top speed can be limited in rules/electronically).



on the other side, for manus is perfect: low cost, easily accessible marketing. look-alike motorsport version of street ev.
apart from m-sport that is just low cost car to sell, doesn't matter what the engine is! : P

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/time-running-out-for-uk-2023-wrc-calendar-bid/10330388/

Looking more & more unlikely for a WRC round in NI for next year, Germany however are in talks to comeback sooner rather than later.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/time-running-out-for-uk-2023-wrc-calendar-bid/10330388/

Looking more & more unlikely for a WRC round in NI for next year, Germany however are in talks to comeback sooner rather than later.

Terrible same. The last best chance for a WRC rally to ever appear again in the UK seems to have gone. :(

[Eli]

Terrible same. The last best chance for a WRC rally to ever appear again in the UK seems to have gone. :(

They said and I quote: 'something drastic has to change in the next few weeks', it seems like you said before, if they don't get that slot next year, they won't get it back period.

[AndyRAC]

Northern Ireland couldn't run the Ulster GP, and there were funding issues for the North West 200, something the organisers were critical of; one quote was that if it was a golf tournament, the money would have been found. I dare say, a WRC rally is in the same place as the road racing events.....

However, this is all on MSUK, asleep at the wheel in regards to rallying. There was a British motorsport day at Parliament on Monday; I didn't see a rallycar, or anybody from the sport involved - apart from DR, and he was there in his MSUK role. However there were F1, BTCC, Historics, Extreme E cars present.

[Kenneth]

As I said before I think the idea of "as cheap as possible" electric car like the e-corsa is extremely boring for spectators. At minimum they need to have noticably more power than similar class petrol cars.(top speed can be limited in rules/electronically).

A Rally2 -like class similar to Baumschlagers Fabia is imo a much better idea.

Well and ICE Rally5 isn't boring?

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/why-the-fia-believes-3-4-manufacturers-is-enough/

FIA as in FIA rally director Andrew Wheatley thinks 4 is the sweet spot, thing is, for now we aren't seeing any interest from any other manufacturers to join the fray.

[AndyRAC]

I read that as that's the most they think they'd ever get. Four is fine if we see 3-4 cars per manufacturer, and plenty of privateers; meaning we see 15-20 Rally 1 cars. As he says, six or seven can become unsustainable as they can't all win - and some end up pulling out. We saw that in the early/mid 00's.

I'm wondering how long the WEC manages to keep all their new manufacturers in the next few years.

[Danny0405]

I also think Toyota will stay the same. Ogier +Lappi sharing should actually work. The only problem is that it gets Lappi "stuck" at only the fast rallies (a bit like Breen in Hyundai).
You'd be crazy to change Lappi for Huttunen or Ingram. Probably still a bit early for Lindholm or Rossel and Toyota does not need a new developing driver yet. Mikkelsen might be better allrounder, but not for fast gravel only. So there isn't really anyone to pick unless some massive disaster happens for Evans or Lappi.

Well, don’t really agree with you about Toyota not needing to develop a new driver.
By the end of 2023, Evans will already be 35-years-old and with some years at WRC level so it may not be that far from retirement (35yo is not very old in Rallye but with almost 10 years at Rally1 level, some drivers began to be less efficient around this period).
And Neuville and Tanak are even older and I don’t really see the point for Toyota of hiring one of them at the moment.
So clearly, beginning to find a new driver to be Rovanpera’s number 2 on long-term (as Sordo was Loeb’s one) is not a bad idea.
Lappi could be that one but he is not that young (32 yo by the beginning of next season) and considering his experience, he has to prove more than what he did in Croatia and Sardinia to keep the job in my opinion; he was a conservative logical choice for 2022 with the regulation change + Ogier’s retirement + no no-brainer choice in Rally2 but he is not an obvious pick for 2023; so Estonia-Finland will be important for him. If he does disappoint by the end of the year, Toyota will need another option and developing a driver is the best solution IMO: either a driver with already Rally1 experience to earn time (but so far, Fourmaux, Greensmith and Solberg are not really convincing, maybe Loubet depending on the end of the season) or one with no Rally1 experience (Rossel, Lindholm or, at a lower level, Ingram or Huttunen are the best option for me; Gryazin sounds complicated considering the context, all the more in a Japanese brand driven by Finnish guys, and even more because he is not that better than the other youngsters).

For me, the situation is not that different than in 2004-2005 with Rovanpera/Loeb being the next big thing and a bunch of old-generation drivers to be replaced in the next 2-3 years. And the most you anticipate, the most you have chance of succeeding on long-term (and Toyota is not in desperate need for a big driver).
Not saying Katsuta is a bad driver but a bit short for him, considering his improvement rate, to be a 2nd driver on long-term (3rd driver yes).

[mknight]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/why-the-fia-believes-3-4-manufacturers-is-enough/

FIA as in FIA rally director Andrew Wheatley thinks 4 is the sweet spot, thing is, for now we aren't seeing any interest from any other manufacturers to join the fray.

I agree 4 or even 3,5 is fine. We have seen it in 2017-2019.

Right now we have something like 2,5.

[AnttiL]

Four to five equal teams is perfect. If a team cannot win or get podiums, it’s as good as no team

[Eli]

I agree 4 or even 3,5 is fine. We have seen it in 2017-2019.

Right now we have something like 2,5.

4 would be great, just like we had in 2017-2019, thing is now we're closer to losing another one instead of gaining another one.

[focus206]

Yes, the key is that all should be somewhat competitive. If a manufacturer is not competitive, it will just leave. Another reason why it's bad for the championship that Toyota is so dominant.
I don't think we'll ever see the 7 manufacturers from the early 2000's (even though Skoda, Hyundai and Mitsubishi WRC would see the podium through binoculars) until something drastic will change in a more or less far future, like a switch to electric.