2022 WRC News & Rumours

[AnttiL]

I think Hyundai stopped the customer program only because they didn't have resources. They could hardly build cars for the three factory drivers...

[mknight]

A little OT, but do you really think Adamo did that voluntarily?

All those extra little programs using WRC cars, run by semi-private teams, only started when he took over as TP. Same with the sale of i20 Coupe WRC chassis. The 'job' of winning championships didn't suddenly start in 2021...

No I think he got ordered to stop (+ what AnttiL says about time), but it was him telling about it in an interview (on DF I think). So I wrote he said it in case people want to search it up.

[cali]

Just if someone could remind me the situation with Evans. Does he have an agreement for 2023 or is he out of contract at the end of the season?

[Eli]

Just if someone could remind me the situation with Evans. Does he have an agreement for 2023 or is he out of contract at the end of the season?

I think, but don’t take my word for it, that he’s signed until the end of 2023, but I honestly don’t remember.

[flat_right]

I don't know if this was already discussed here but Belfast Telegraph asked if Breen’s seat would come under review at the end of the campaign, Millener added: “We took Craig on a two-year deal, but these performances make it trickier with partners and sponsors as far as what we do moving forward. We need to show we are competitive and do well in the Championship.”

Full story: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motor-sport/ford-chief-warns-craig-breen-that-he-must-start-to-deliver-after-latest-setback-41927083.html

[cali]

I don't know if this was already discussed here but Belfast Telegraph asked if Breen’s seat would come under review at the end of the campaign, Millener added: “We took Craig on a two-year deal, but these performances make it trickier with partners and sponsors as far as what we do moving forward. We need to show we are competitive and do well in the Championship.”

Full story: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/motor-sport/ford-chief-warns-craig-breen-that-he-must-start-to-deliver-after-latest-setback-41927083.html
Without Breen how they could get any better?

[cali]

I think, but don’t take my word for it, that he’s signed until the end of 2023, but I honestly don’t remember.

https://www.elfynevans.com/post/elfyn-signs-new-toyota-gazoo-racing-deal

If that's true then he is out of contract at the end of 2022.

My bold prediction is Tänak and Evans will swap teams at the end of 2022 season.

[flat_right]

Without Breen how they could get any better?

Use Breen's money to ask Leob to make more rounds? :D

[flat_right]

https://www.elfynevans.com/post/elfyn-signs-new-toyota-gazoo-racing-deal

If that's true then he is out of contract at the end of 2022.

My bold prediction is Tänak and Evans will swap teams at the end of 2022 season.

I just can't see that happening. Why would Toyota make things more complicated for themselves? They have a clear nr 1 and very solid nr 2. With Tänak they would get Hamilton vs Rosberg situation and this would mean tensions within the team.

[EstWRC]

Why you guys always right away predict tensions?

He was teammates with Ogier with no tensions, then people predicted he wouldn’t get along with Neuville. Yeah we are seeing some niggling now between them but for two years there was nothing.

[flat_right]

Why you guys always right away predict tensions?

He was teammates with Ogier with no tensions, then people predicted he wouldn’t get along with Neuville. Yeah we are seeing some niggling now between them but for two years there was nothing.

Solid point! Both will have one title by then and the rest is just a bonus.

[cali]

I just can't see that happening. Why would Toyota make things more complicated for themselves? They have a clear nr 1 and very solid nr 2. With Tänak they would get Hamilton vs Rosberg situation and this would mean tensions within the team.

Because Akio is a fan of Ott's talent

[meh]

Use Breen's money to ask Leob to make more rounds? :D

If there is one guy who you can not get driving by just giving (more) money, it's Loeb. He is doing it for fun till he find it to be fun.


Why you guys always right away predict tensions?

He was teammates with Ogier with no tensions, then people predicted he wouldn’t get along with Neuville. Yeah we are seeing some niggling now between them but for two years there was nothing.

... Tänak left from M-Sport because he was tired to be number 2 (getting team-orders, new parts later etc)
... Tänak and Neuville manage it, because they have common enemy (not working car, lack of team structure) etc - I think it would be completely different story when they both could be in reachable distance from World Title

and this is all logical - they are competitors, they all are there for winning titles not being wingmans for friends for someone.

[wyler]

Why you guys always right away predict tensions?

He was teammates with Ogier with no tensions, then people predicted he wouldn’t get along with Neuville. Yeah we are seeing some niggling now between them but for two years there was nothing.

because now his status changed a lot from ogier time. that time ott was nowhere near asking priority for the development of the car, especially comparing his carreer at that point vs ogier. now the situation is very different.
also, consider this: for the past years set up of the car could be opposite way between drivers (in term of components too). now some parts as to be the same on every car (ie around the differential). so teams needs to prioritize a choice.
and magically arguing appears in hiunday too, as well as more "issues" related to set ups or diffs (like solberg crashing on neuville parts...)

[er88]

Evans has a contract for next season. Yes he has been underwhelming a little bit compared to last 2 yrs, but the season could've been a lot different had he not chucked away the lead in Monte and a podium in Sweden. He was immediately up against it and perhaps lost a little confidence.

He doesn't cause trouble, he will rack up points and it seems there is a perfect dynamic in that Toyota team. I don't think 3 championship challengers can work in 1 team - so don't see why Toyota would bother adding Tanak alongside Kalle and Evans.

If Evans feels like Kalle is about to become a dominant force like Ogier did to Latvala at VW, then maybe Evans looks to go back to Msport. But then surely beating Kalle in the same car is easier than doing it at Msport considering Msports history of development struggles.

[cali]

Evans has a contract for next season. Yes he has been underwhelming a little bit compared to last 2 yrs, but the season could've been a lot different had he not chucked away the lead in Monte and a podium in Sweden. He was immediately up against it and perhaps lost a little confidence.

He doesn't cause trouble, he will rack up points and it seems there is a perfect dynamic in that Toyota team. I don't think 3 championship challengers can work in 1 team - so don't see why Toyota would bother adding Tanak alongside Kalle and Evans.

If Evans feels like Kalle is about to become a dominant force like Ogier did to Latvala at VW, then maybe Evans looks to go back to Msport. But then surely beating Kalle in the same car is easier than doing it at Msport considering Msports history of development struggles.Personally I would also keep current driver lineups but some whispers here and there are telling otherwise.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

Personally I would also keep current driver lineups but some whispers here and there are telling otherwise.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

I want to watch three teams fighting at least for podiums next year, so I would totally not keep current lineups.

[cali]

I want to watch three teams fighting at least for podiums next year, so I would totally not keep current lineups.In a real world M-Sport doesn't have the finances to hire any of those 5 drivers from other teams. Lappi also confirmed that it's either TGR or nothing. Keep dreaming. Only real moves come from those 2 teams.

EDIT, so you can't twist my words this was said in a condition that if I was a team manager at TGR. Ideally I would also like to have more performance and better drivers at M-Sport but I just cannot see this happening.

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[mknight]

Wilson said last year they had money for top driver. Millener said 2 weeks ago they would use money to get title contender but sadly none are available. Whether we believe them or not is another matter.

[Eli]

For the championship’s sake I’d rather have Tänak join M-Sport (alongside Breen for next season at least) & that way we have 3 title contenders in 3 different teams like we had back in 2019, realistically though, M-Sport would need to pull a rabbit out of their hat to make it happen.

[wyler]

it's pr, it's part of the game, not only rally, but for every brand. reality is another thing. i 'd not rely to much on media statement...

[er88]

Deleted

[er88]

Wilson said last year they had money for top driver. Millener said 2 weeks ago they would use money to get title contender but sadly none are available. Whether we believe them or not is another matter.The annoying thing is that they don't seem to have a middle ground. They could've kept Lappi and or Suninen but wanted them to pay/wouldn't do pre event tests etc. They didn't plan for this season at all, other than hoping foolishly they could attract a top driver, and then went to other end of the spectrum with effective pay drivers with backing, and Breen crumbling under the pressure of being the only driver capable of fighting (when Loeb isn't there).

They're not interested in Mikkelsen and Malcolm only wants him if he pays. They're losing faith in Fourmaux. Loeb won't do enough events. Meeke has no future do his age so they aren't keen, and he'd crash. But then all their drivers are crashing anyway and have no speed. They're in an awful position and have nowhere to turn it seems

[mknight]

Well that's my main issue as well. It's either Ogier or you pay even if you have rally wins/podiums like those 3.

To be fair they did kind of go middle ground with Breen, but that's one out of 3 cars and risking it all on performace of one didn't work.

Evans was pretty much a middle driver comparable to those 3 until he went to Toyota (and almost got kicked for good at end of 2018).

[hutchie]

The annoying thing is that they don't seem to have a middle ground. They could've kept Lappi and or Suninen but wanted them to pay/wouldn't do pre event tests etc. They didn't plan for this season at all, other than hoping foolishly they could attract a top driver, and then went to other end of the spectrum with effective pay drivers with backing, and Breen crumbling under the pressure of being the only driver capable of fighting (when Loeb isn't there).

They're not interested in Mikkelsen and Malcolm only wants him if he pays. They're losing faith in Fourmaux. Loeb won't do enough events. Meeke has no future do his age so they aren't keen, and he'd crash. But then all their drivers are crashing anyway and have no speed. They're in an awful position and have nowhere to turn it seems

I think it's unfair to say they didn't plan for this season. The plan for this season and the driver they backed was Craig Breen with a group of younger inexperienced drivers backing him up and part-time Loeb. Sadly Craig has largely under delivered and has had accidents on his favoured events and not shown full potential elsewhere. And then of the youngsters in the team there has been flashes but neither Fourmaux, Greensmith or Loubet have set the world alight. While Loeb has delivered a win out of his 3 appearances.

The big question will be is how radically they change their approach to next season, do they continue to back Breen and any current drivers? Or will they bring in another more experienced top driver into the team as well as supporting other youngsters like Huttunen. And of course this all depends on finances and other deals.

So far with his limited season Loubet has looked the best of the current M-Sport youngsters with a 4th place in Sardegna. I'd like to see how he gets on in Acropolis and other events this year.

[Jewy46]

I wonder would they approach Ogier again and offer him to drive whatever events he wants next year while doing none of the PR etc he may/may not have to do with Toyota?
Just a thought. They need to explore every avenue IMO and help Craig by not having him as no1 in most events.

Imagine them having Loeb and Ogier coming in for events to take the pressure off and help develop the car and the team, as well as imparting wisdom to the younger drivers.

[Eli]

I wonder would they approach Ogier again and offer him to drive whatever events he wants next year while doing none of the PR etc he may/may not have to do with Toyota?
Just a thought. They need to explore every avenue IMO and help Craig by not having him as no1 in most events.

Imagine them having Loeb and Ogier coming in for events to take the pressure off and help develop the car and the team, as well as imparting wisdom to the younger drivers.

If they want to help Craig, A) they shouldn't give him the boot for next season & B) Bring in Tänak (assuming Ogier/Loeb.etc aren't available/tied to Toyota) & have him as your main driver while taking of the pressure from Breen and teaching him a thing or two about becoming world champion (the same way Ogier showed the way to Tänak). That's my two cents on the matter.

[WRCStan]

Can somebody please explain this pressure of being the team leader/main/no. 1 driver that Breen is supposed to have that's making him crumble? What the hell are you all talking about?

[rp]

Some drivers are able to handle the pressure and clearly Breen is not that kind of driver unfortunately. It´s not bad luck or something else to make mistakes third event in a row in this situation.

[WRCStan]

Some drivers are able to handle the pressure and clearly Breen is not that kind of driver unfortunately. It´s not bad luck or something else to make mistakes third event in a row in this situation.

What pressure? If Ogier and Tanak are in the same team and he still crashes, is he then just shit?

[skarderud]

Do anyone think any of the best drivers in WRC2 would do a worse season than the M-sport boys? I don't.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

What pressure? If Ogier and Tanak are in the same team and he still crashes, is he then just shit?

Really have to say it out to you?

The pressure from being the number one and only one in the team who can bring decent results

[seb_sh]

The way I see it with Breen is he's now top dog at MSport so he's comparing himself with the other top dogs. So he's trying to be on pace with Rovanpera, Evans, Tanak and Neuville. Now his ability and maybe the car is possibly not quite up to it so he's pushing over the limit and crashing. When he was 3rd driver he could be comfortable in 2nd 3rd 4th 5th behind the main drivers and that was job done. He could then complain that he's missing a few percent of speed due to not having a full time drive. I like the guy but I think we're seeing his limit.

[WRCStan]

Really have to say it out to you?

The pressure from being the number one and only one in the team who can bring decent results

I get that his experience means expectations are higher, but this is all in your heads. Like - it's the standard commentary so it must be fact.

[EstWRC]

I get that his experience means expectations are higher, but this is all in your heads. Like - it's the standard commentary so it must be fact.

“We know as a team Craig is capable of securing good results, but that just hasn’t happened in the last few rallies,” said Richard Millener.

“There is a lot of pressure on him right now and this accident only makes things worse again for him. We just need to support him because we know that Craig can do it.

[Jarek Z]

Craig Breen has been competing in WRC on a regular basis since 2009. He has 77 WRC rallies on his account. In recent years he was constantly repeating that he wanted to compete in a WRC car in a factory team. Now he has it. Pressure is a natural ingredient of this situation. Didn't he have enough time to get used to it?

P.S. I don't want to criticize him. I am just surprised that he has such problems. I wish him all the best.

[Danny0405]

For me, Millener’s story about they only would hire a WDC contender is clearly bs. I don’t really understand how they could hope to hire one with a team not able to make PET everywhere (I precise it’s not a criticism, I understand the financial situation is not simple), with not that much ability of development and whereas all the contenders have a contract for next year. It’s clearly only PR thing: only spot for hiring one will be 2024 at the end of their contract if one has been disappointing with this risk that it’s a declining driver (a bit like Hirvonen comeback in 2014).

And on the other hand, Wilson has always been clear that they are making top-class only as a store front to show they are better than other preparation brand; as they don’t have VW or Toyota money, it’s understandable they cannot compete for a lot of wins but they should be able to compete for at least 3/4 podiums as they did after Ford and Qatar withdrawal in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019 (and we could say they were not that far in 2020); 2017-2018 was a bit special in the next few years.
If they’re not able to do this at least in the next few years (with no more advantage of having prepared the new generation car first), it’s a non-sense to follow in the top-class championship, they should focus to fix the Rally2 car and quit the top class because they’re not winning any money in Rally1 (almost no pure client) and the front store would not be attractive.

IMO, best realistic solution for them for next year is to go for a individual rally strategy and completely forgetting about the global picture championship.
Which means:
- Take back Breen to a role of part-time driver, it’s where he was the most efficient with Citroen and Hyundai, focusing on some events and having even better road positions. Should be possible with Breen outside of top 5 in WDC except if they messed up badly on the contract.

- sharing his car with a guy with not too far RC1 experience who could be able to play one or two podiums with cheap salary (not paying to drive but paid only the minimum): best would be Ogier or Lappi if they are not maintained by Toyota but complicated I think. Else Mikkelsen or Suninen are probably the best shots; would be surprising they couldn’t convince one of the 2 with that type of offers, they have to take risks now to comeback in top class. Ostberg, Paddon or Meeke too risky in my opinion so only other option would be Solberg if not kept by Hyundai

- convincing Loeb of making a 3-to-5-round calendar; don’t think he wants to do more and anyway, he is not anymore the 30-yo Loeb, don’t think he can be efficient in a large calendar as he is making much more mistakes than in the past (hopefully I would say considering his age)

- focusing on one second-tier youngster, probably with some backing, either Loubet, Fourmaux, Huttunen, Rossel or even Lindholm. Theoretically, best would be Loubet as it was the most convincing and he knows the car so lowest learning delay to wait and more probability to take profit fast. In other scenario, Solberg if not kept by Hyundai

- and then, to finish, whoever pays fully for the drives.

For me, it’s the best way they have to optimize the result with something that is in their financial range.

[WRCStan]

“We know as a team Craig is capable of securing good results, but that just hasn’t happened in the last few rallies,” said Richard Millener.

“There is a lot of pressure on him right now and this accident only makes things worse again for him. We just need to support him because we know that Craig can do it.

Oh Ok, thanks.

[ouvreur]

For me, Millener’s story about they only would hire a WDC contender is clearly bs.

What is he supposed to say? "We want to hire someone bang average"? "Mediocre driver wanted to lead our team"? "We surrender, just give us third place now"?

They clearly expected a LOT more from Breen.

[AnttiL]

For me, Millener’s story about they only would hire a WDC contender is clearly bs.

No, the exact opposite. And Breen's seasson just proves them right. He was supposed to be "the best of the rest" but they haven't really done better this year than with just paying drivers. But with Ogier they got three titles in two years.

Of course, it's not as simple as just hiring a driver, a world champion level driver like Ogier or Tänak will demand higher level of development and testing and will be granted it.

[AnttiL]

Stuff from Kristian Sohlberg's twitch stream

- Neuville blamed his gravel crew driver Bruno Thiry for not marking the gravel in his Ypres crash corner (can someone check what the co-driver says for this corner?) and as a result Thiry god mad and went home before Sunday. And Thiry had been already close to leaving earlier in the season.
- When Breen crashed, the leaders didn't speak to him, just sent nasty text messages. He's being treated as bad as Suninen in 2021 and it seems the intention is to make him leave the team.
- Katsuta is expected to have two podiums this year (regarding the news posted after Ypres)
- Tänak had said about Neuville's "mind games" on Ypres Sunday morning that "I remember this guy called Ogier once tried the same but didn't work then either". The two are reportedly not on that good terms in the team.
- He would have given Gus only 2/10 for reasons that happened after his crash but he didn't want to mention in detail
- Tänak is "for sure not going to Toyota"
- There are strong rumors of crew changes at Hyundai for next year
- Huttunen's engine was leaking(?) oil already in the tests

[wyler]

When he was 3rd driver he could be comfortable in 2nd 3rd 4th 5th behind the main drivers and that was job done.

honestly, this would be job done for m-sport too.
be in the mix for top 5 spots, even constantly P5 if others have no issue -would be rare- that's the value of the package and they know it.

[wyler]

For me, Millener’s story about they only would hire a WDC contender is clearly bs. I don’t really understand how they could hope to hire one with a team not able to make PET everywhere (I precise it’s not a criticism, I understand the financial situation is not simple), with not that much ability of development and whereas all the contenders have a contract for next year. It’s clearly only PR thing: only spot for hiring one will be 2024 at the end of their contract if one has been disappointing with this risk that it’s a declining driver (a bit like Hirvonen comeback in 2014).

And on the other hand, Wilson has always been clear that they are making top-class only as a store front to show they are better than other preparation brand; as they don’t have VW or Toyota money, it’s understandable they cannot compete for a lot of wins but they should be able to compete for at least 3/4 podiums as they did after Ford and Qatar withdrawal in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2019 (and we could say they were not that far in 2020); 2017-2018 was a bit special in the next few years.
If they’re not able to do this at least in the next few years (with no more advantage of having prepared the new generation car first), it’s a non-sense to follow in the top-class championship, they should focus to fix the Rally2 car and quit the top class because they’re not winning any money in Rally1 (almost no pure client) and the front store would not be attractive.

IMO, best realistic solution for them for next year is to go for a individual rally strategy and completely forgetting about the global picture championship.
Which means:
- Take back Breen to a role of part-time driver, it’s where he was the most efficient with Citroen and Hyundai, focusing on some events and having even better road positions. Should be possible with Breen outside of top 5 in WDC except if they messed up badly on the contract.

- sharing his car with a guy with not too far RC1 experience who could be able to play one or two podiums with cheap salary (not paying to drive but paid only the minimum): best would be Ogier or Lappi if they are not maintained by Toyota but complicated I think. Else Mikkelsen or Suninen are probably the best shots; would be surprising they couldn’t convince one of the 2 with that type of offers, they have to take risks now to comeback in top class. Ostberg, Paddon or Meeke too risky in my opinion so only other option would be Solberg if not kept by Hyundai

- convincing Loeb of making a 3-to-5-round calendar; don’t think he wants to do more and anyway, he is not anymore the 30-yo Loeb, don’t think he can be efficient in a large calendar as he is making much more mistakes than in the past (hopefully I would say considering his age)

- focusing on one second-tier youngster, probably with some backing, either Loubet, Fourmaux, Huttunen, Rossel or even Lindholm. Theoretically, best would be Loubet as it was the most convincing and he knows the car so lowest learning delay to wait and more probability to take profit fast. In other scenario, Solberg if not kept by Hyundai

- and then, to finish, whoever pays fully for the drives.

For me, it’s the best way they have to optimize the result with something that is in their financial range.

basically it's what they are already doing, apart from rotating breen... but that would loose a paid car in some rounds

breen | rotating breen (loeb would be here?) + x
part-time loeb | //
fourmeaux | second tier driver in development
greensmith | paydriver (greensmith)
x paydrives |x paydrives

and they are the entry with most rally1 in almost every rounds ( in greece has to be 6) paying for just 1 so the rally1 market is not that much of a dead horse, to me.

[flat_right]

Stuff from Kristian Sohlberg's twitch stream

- Neuville blamed his gravel crew driver Bruno Thiry for not marking the gravel in his Ypres crash corner (can someone check what the co-driver says for this corner?) and as a result Thiry god mad and went home before Sunday. And Thiry had been already close to leaving earlier in the season.
- When Breen crashed, the leaders didn't speak to him, just sent nasty text messages. He's being treated as bad as Suninen in 2021 and it seems the intention is to make him leave the team.
- Katsuta is expected to have two podiums this year (regarding the news posted after Ypres)
- Tänak had said about Neuville's "mind games" on Ypres Sunday morning that "I remember this guy called Ogier once tried the same but didn't work then either". The two are reportedly not on that good terms in the team.
- He would have given Gus only 2/10 for reasons that happened after his crash but he didn't want to mention in detail
- Tänak is "for sure not going to Toyota"
- There are strong rumors of crew changes at Hyundai for next year
- Huttunen's engine was leaking(?) oil already in the tests

Just out of curiosity, is there any knowledge where does he get his info? Quite fascinating!

About this "And Thiry had been already close to leaving earlier in the season." - close to leaving the team or leaving home early from a bad rally?

[AnttiL]

Just out of curiosity, is there any knowledge where does he get his info? Quite fascinating!
He works as Greensmith's coach so he spends the rallies in the service parks and hears things. I'm repeating only what he says on a public stream so it should be OK to share them out here.


About this "And Thiry had been already close to leaving earlier in the season." - close to leaving the team or leaving home early from a bad rally?

Close to quitting his job for being treated so badly by Neuville.

[Eli]

Stuff from Kristian Sohlberg's twitch stream


- When Breen crashed, the leaders didn't speak to him, just sent nasty text messages. He's being treated as bad as Suninen in 2021 and it seems the intention is to make him leave the team.


The leaders? Which leaders? Millener?




- There are strong rumors of crew changes at Hyundai for next year

So both Neuville & Tanak out? and Tänak will retire at the end of this year?

[AnttiL]

The leaders? Which leaders? Millener?


Not specified but I suppose he means Millener and Wilson.


So both Neuville & Tanak out? and Tänak will retire at the end of this year?
This wasn't specified in greater detail at all.

[WRCStan]

Stuff from Kristian Sohlberg's twitch stream

- Neuville blamed his gravel crew driver Bruno Thiry for not marking the gravel in his Ypres crash corner (can someone check what the co-driver says for this corner?) and as a result Thiry god mad and went home before Sunday. And Thiry had been already close to leaving earlier in the season.
- When Breen crashed, the leaders didn't speak to him, just sent nasty text messages. He's being treated as bad as Suninen in 2021 and it seems the intention is to make him leave the team.
- Katsuta is expected to have two podiums this year (regarding the news posted after Ypres)
- Tänak had said about Neuville's "mind games" on Ypres Sunday morning that "I remember this guy called Ogier once tried the same but didn't work then either". The two are reportedly not on that good terms in the team.
- He would have given Gus only 2/10 for reasons that happened after his crash but he didn't want to mention in detail
- Tänak is "for sure not going to Toyota"
- There are strong rumors of crew changes at Hyundai for next year
- Huttunen's engine was leaking(?) oil already in the tests

Thiry working for free?
Can't sack both Fourmaux and Breen. Team leader? lol.
Gus - 2/10 after the crash was what? Why say something that equates to nothing?
Crew changes at Hyundai? Thought I'm the only one peddling that shit.

[er88]

I can see the crew change at Hyundai being Suninen. Rotate Sordo and him in the 3rd car, and run Solberg in a 4th car all season.

[mknight]

No, the exact opposite. And Breen's seasson just proves them right. He was supposed to be "the best of the rest" but they haven't really done better this year than with just paying drivers. But with Ogier they got three titles in two years.



Breen has underperformed a lot compared with last year. Last year he was clearly 2nd fast with some hopes for a win on 3 rounds, so for example better than Lappi in his Finland outing (sure much less time in car, but Lappi drove it for two years before). So his level this year should have been around that, given the car is up for it, which it was on Loeb's outings.

At the same time Breen was "risky choice" that was seemingly on the way up. Risky because there was quite a lot of rallies where he had little experience and was never in a position of team number 1 or even 2 before.

On rallies with little experience he did good this year, but probably not much better than expected. It's on rallies with experience that everything seems wrong...

But it is still very far off from paydrivers!
Greensmith/Fourmaux still don't have a single podium in their career. Breen has two just this year, double the points of Greensmith and 7 times as many as Fourmaux.


I think we agree MSport needs at minimum podiums/around podiums to actually attract paydrivers and show the car is competitive. Else they go to others when possible (Loubet and Veiby at Hyundai), or to Rally2 (Gryazin).
"Just paydrivers" are unable to prove that. What kept them in the game somehow in 2019 was Evans that could sometimes be fast (Corsica, GB (bare the issues)), but at that point he wasn't really a paydriver with no results.


For this year MSport had a relatively risky strategy, hoping that Breen will at least stay the same or improve (and charge for championship) and that Fourmaux and Greensmith improve. In a late move they secured themselves with Loeb (still risky given his performance at Hyundai, but free PR anyway).
Loeb proved really good move cause none of the other things worked. Breen is worse than last year, Fourmaux is going backwards (compare with Croatia or Portugal last year), Greensmith is the same (bad).

I agree with what was mentioned that new (money saving) strategy could be to drop Breen on some rounds, basically dialing back to his Hyundai starts, or to use someone else in that role.

[mknight]

I can see the crew change at Hyundai being Suninen. Rotate Sordo and him in the 3rd car, and run Solberg in a 4th car all season.

I said before that of all moves this would help Solberg the most, he should be asking for this himself.

(with the understanding that Suninen is not competing with Solberg for future position, it should be set in stone at start of the season that Solberg won't be nominated driver, so that he doesn't try to impress)

[mknight]

Not specified but I suppose he means Millener and Wilson.



I think there might be difference between these two (and others in leadership). I read somewhere that Breens granny is/was? reportedly good friend with Wilsons.
At the same time Wilson is usually the one to freak out when drivers crash.

[mknight]

Stuff from Kristian Sohlberg's twitch stream


- When Breen crashed, the leaders didn't speak to him, just sent nasty text messages. He's being treated as bad as Suninen in 2021 and it seems the intention is to make him leave the team.

- Tänak is "for sure not going to Toyota"
- There are strong rumors of crew changes at Hyundai for next year


There could be one common answer to these. But I highly doubt it.

[AnttiL]

Gus - 2/10 after the crash was what? Why say something that equates to nothing?


The point was that on the stream Sohlberg and a guest were going through the Rally1 drivers and giving everyone a 0-10 grade like Colin Clark. Clark gave Gus 4/10 and the guest agreed but Sohlberg said that "even if this is the driver I'm coaching, I wouldn't give even that much, more like 2/10. But I can't tell you the details"

[ouvreur]

The point was that on the stream Sohlberg and a guest were going through the Rally1 drivers and giving everyone a 0-10 grade like Colin Clark. Clark gave Gus 4/10 and the guest agreed but Sohlberg said that "even if this is the driver I'm coaching, I wouldn't give even that much, more like 2/10. But I can't tell you the details"
Sounds like a pretty fast and easy way to lose that coaching gig...

Isn't Gus' lack of progress in top-flight machinery a pretty damning indictment of his ability as a coach?

[WRCStan]

There could be one common answer to these. But I highly doubt it.

I think he implies they might want Breen out immediately, not for Tanak next year. That could have been the desired intent on Saturday, then after Fourmaux crashed the decision was taken elsewhere so they couldn't sack Breen anyway if they wanted - contract details aside.


I think we agree MSport needs at minimum podiums/around podiums to actually attract paydrivers and show the car is competitive. Else they go to others when possible (Loubet and Veiby at Hyundai), or to Rally2 (Gryazin).
"Just paydrivers" are unable to prove that. What kept them in the game somehow in 2019 was Evans that could sometimes be fast (Corsica, GB (bare the issues)), but at that point he wasn't really a paydriver with no results.

I can't agree - there literally isn't any other choice for customers. Whether the car is 11th by paydriver or Loeb winning isn't swaying anyone's decision to go Rally1 or not. Whether it has mechanical failures might.


For this year MSport had a relatively risky strategy, hoping that Breen will at least stay the same or improve (and charge for championship) and that Fourmaux and Greensmith improve. In a late move they secured themselves with Loeb (still risky given his performance at Hyundai, but free PR anyway).
Loeb proved really good move cause none of the other things worked. Breen is worse than last year, Fourmaux is going backwards (compare with Croatia or Portugal last year), Greensmith is the same (bad).

They hired Breen because he was free (as suggested on here) and they needed somebody, anybody, to just turn up and not consistently crash or embarrass them - the Fourmaux deal came too late in the hour. Can discuss Breen vs A.N Other but at the time, no Breen = no Gus, Rockdoor, Huttunen, Loubet, Serderidis, Bertelli, Red Bull... Loeb came via the promoter like a customer, M-Sport didn't ring him. There's no championship charge expectations anywhere, there's no risky strategy, there's no number one driver...

[speederbee]

Sounds like a pretty fast and easy way to lose that coaching gig...

Isn't Gus' lack of progress in top-flight machinery a pretty damning indictment of his ability as a coach?

Agreed... But is there any independent confirmation that he actually does work as Gus's coach, and he isn't just making this up?

Looking at his own results, I don't see why he would be fit to coach anybody in a world rally car. His WRC career best was 6th place, and that was nearly 20 years ago. He may have been a decent enough lower tier driver, perhaps, but coaching world rally drivers?

[ouvreur]

Agreed... But is there any independent confirmation that he actually does work as Gus's coach, and he isn't just making this up?

Looking at his own results, I don't see why he would be fit to coach anybody in a world rally car. His WRC career best was 6th place, and that was nearly 20 years ago. He may have been a decent enough lower tier driver, perhaps, but coaching world rally drivers?

This link confirms it. (https://www-mtvuutiset-fi.translate.goog/artikkeli/kristian-sohlberg-valmentaa-nuorta-brittikuljettajaa-rallin-mm-sarjassa-ei-se-aina-ole-niin-rentoa-ja-rempseaa/8469752?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

The other points... while it's true that some of the best coaches in many sports have zero top-level competitive playing experience, and being good at doing something doesn't always mean you'll be a good teacher, it's hard to argue with your assessment.

And I really don't understand why he would be spouting stuff like "I'd give him a lower rating, ooh, but I can't tell you why", trying to impress about 100 people on Twitch, unless he was actively looking to get fired.

Good luck finding another Gus Greensmith to 'coach', pal.

[wyler]

Sounds like a pretty fast and easy way to lose that coaching gig...

Isn't Gus' lack of progress in top-flight machinery a pretty damning indictment of his ability as a coach?

or, this may be a statement that gus is not doing what is asked, hence why the 2 instead of 4, probably because is workin out his way instead of following terms...

[speederbee]

This link confirms it. (https://www-mtvuutiset-fi.translate.goog/artikkeli/kristian-sohlberg-valmentaa-nuorta-brittikuljettajaa-rallin-mm-sarjassa-ei-se-aina-ole-niin-rentoa-ja-rempseaa/8469752?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=wapp)

Thanks!

[mknight]

I can't agree - there literally isn't any other choice for customers. Whether the car is 11th by paydriver or Loeb winning isn't swaying anyone's decision to go Rally1 or not. Whether it has mechanical failures might.



As I wrote if customers see the Rally1 car has no chance vs competition they won't pay. Pretty much like it was in 2021.

Instead they go to Rally2 and stay there. Gryazin is a case in point, he even tested Fiesta in Arctic 2021, then by the end of the year after driving Fiesta Rally2 (and seeing MSport) went to Toksport Fabia instead. Other people with money seems to be following similar route (for example Bulacia(s)).
On the other hand Loubet seemed to go for Puma first after he saw how well it went in Monte this year.





They hired Breen because he was free (as suggested on here) and they needed somebody, anybody, to just turn up and not consistently crash or embarrass them - the Fourmaux deal came too late in the hour. Can discuss Breen vs A.N Other but at the time, no Breen = no Gus, Rockdoor, Huttunen, Loubet, Serderidis, Bertelli, Red Bull... Loeb came via the promoter like a customer, M-Sport didn't ring him. There's no championship charge expectations anywhere, there's no risky strategy, there's no number one driver...

MSport PR talks very different, but sure it's PR. I find it very hard to believe that Ford would put any money into new car with "no plans and no expectation" as you put it. We have seen the promo at Goodwood last year.

Your own post basically contradicts the notion of "there is no number one driver". Millener does as well when he says Breen was hired to get results (podiums or wins).

[WRCStan]

Your own post basically contradicts the notion of "there is no number one driver".

Not in the context of recent pages of this thread. Being unsackable in Greece for example, doesn't sound much crumbling pressure.

All the statements and press are a part of obliging their commercial partners, I'm surprised the brains and experience here take it all at face value.

[svstock]

WRC+ newsletter (23.08.2022)
https://i.imgur.com/wl3fGhT.png
(if you want to win, hire a Finn)

[bandit12]

WRC+ newsletter (23.08.2022)
https://i.imgur.com/wl3fGhT.png
(if you want to win, hire a Finn)

And your point is?

[tr4m]

And your point is?

While he drives like one, Ott's not actually Finn.

[manthey]

Maybe Cais (yet MSport) could be one?

Does Loubet has funding on its own (as Greensmith) or by sponsor?

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[Danny0405]

Maybe Cais (yet MSport) could be one?

Does Loubet has funding on its own (as Greensmith) or by sponsor?

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Even if the father Yves (former ERC champion and 4x WRC podiums) has some facilities to find budget for his son (Qatar in the past for example), it is not personal money but sponsorship for Loubet. Currently, he is in the last of his 3 years plan with an French investor to help him to reach durably WRC.
However, it is not sure it will be renewed (not the primary plan normally).
All the more that there is a bit of a question mark about his true potential: he begins his rally career with WRC directly (or almost) so he has already made 75% of his starts there (more than 50). For me, he has some kind of advantages on international experience compared with some other young drivers so not sure his potential is that incredible (for example, personally I would not switch Solberg to Loubet but I would be really thinking on the contrary if I was M-Sport).
But still, he may find some other backing.

For Cais, considering his season, no way he can be in Rally1; too weak still on gravel with a calendar less and less tarmac-oriented, don’t see how he could finish better than Fourmaux in this situation.
Atm, only reasonable youngsters with no WRC experience are IMO Rossel, Lindholm or Huttunen (well, forgetting in outside WRC RC1 drive and his Finland outing).
Gryazin has the speed but I don’t see how it could finish better than Novikov (and the Russian context cannot help). And Ingram, for the moment, is not really able to play RC2 podiums (or is a bit short for it).
All the rest is too far in RC2 today to play in Rally1.

[manthey]

Even if the father Yves (former ERC champion and 4x WRC podiums) has some facilities to find budget for his son (Qatar in the past for example), it is not personal money but sponsorship for Loubet. Currently, he is in the last of his 3 years plan with an French investor to help him to reach durably WRC.
However, it is not sure it will be renewed (not the primary plan normally).
All the more that there is a bit of a question mark about his true potential: he begins his rally career with WRC directly (or almost) so he has already made 75% of his starts there (more than 50). For me, he has some kind of advantages on international experience compared with some other young drivers so not sure his potential is that incredible (for example, personally I would not switch Solberg to Loubet but I would be really thinking on the contrary if I was M-Sport).
But still, he may find some other backing.

For Cais, considering his season, no way he can be in Rally1; too weak still on gravel with a calendar less and less tarmac-oriented, don’t see how he could finish better than Fourmaux in this situation.
Atm, only reasonable youngsters with no WRC experience are IMO Rossel, Lindholm or Huttunen (well, forgetting in outside WRC RC1 drive and his Finland outing).
Gryazin has the speed but I don’t see how it could finish better than Novikov (and the Russian context cannot help). And Ingram, for the moment, is not really able to play RC2 podiums (or is a bit short for it).
All the rest is too far in RC2 today to play in Rally1.

Thanks for the info.
Is FFSA backing the 3 year program you cited?

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[AnttiL]

For Cais, considering his season, no way he can be in Rally1; too weak still on gravel with a calendar less and less tarmac-oriented, don’t see how he could finish better than Fourmaux in this situation.
Atm, only reasonable youngsters with no WRC experience are IMO Rossel, Lindholm or Huttunen (well, forgetting in outside WRC RC1 drive and his Finland outing).
Gryazin has the speed but I don’t see how it could finish better than Novikov (and the Russian context cannot help). And Ingram, for the moment, is not really able to play RC2 podiums (or is a bit short for it).
All the rest is too far in RC2 today to play in Rally1.

Yes, definitely, need to get more solid WRC2 starts on all surfaces and rally types.

It's a weird situation with people like Greensmith, Fourmaux, Loubet, Katsuta and Solberg in Rally1 when they should maybe still be in WRC2, and on the contrary people like Mikkelsen, Östberg, Suninen and Paddon sitting in WRC2 waiting for Rally1 seats. As for new drivers, I would say Huttunen is the top choice. Lindholm and Rossel are not ready yet. I can't see Gryazin progressing into a main team right now even with a big bag of money.

[AnttiL]

Stuff from Kristian Sohlberg's twitch stream

- Neuville blamed his gravel crew driver Bruno Thiry for not marking the gravel in his Ypres crash corner (can someone check what the co-driver says for this corner?) and as a result Thiry god mad and went home before Sunday. And Thiry had been already close to leaving earlier in the season.
- When Breen crashed, the leaders didn't speak to him, just sent nasty text messages. He's being treated as bad as Suninen in 2021 and it seems the intention is to make him leave the team.
- Katsuta is expected to have two podiums this year (regarding the news posted after Ypres)
- Tänak had said about Neuville's "mind games" on Ypres Sunday morning that "I remember this guy called Ogier once tried the same but didn't work then either". The two are reportedly not on that good terms in the team.
- He would have given Gus only 2/10 for reasons that happened after his crash but he didn't want to mention in detail
- Tänak is "for sure not going to Toyota"
- There are strong rumors of crew changes at Hyundai for next year
- Huttunen's engine was leaking(?) oil already in the tests

https://www.rallit.fi/mm-rallin-sisapiirilainen-paljastaa-kuinka-tallipomot-kohtelevat-kaltoin-ykkostahteaan-ihan-sairasta-katseltavaa/

More of the stuff, especially relating to Breen, written word for word if you want to try it with translator.

[bandit12]

More of the stuff, especially relating to Breen, written word for word if you want to try it with translator.

Bloody hell. If that is true... What are they gaining if they manage to get Breen to leave?

[mknight]

Bloody hell. If that is true... What are they gaining if they manage to get Breen to leave?

There are two lines of speculation

- make room for Tanak (or someone else)

- save money and only continue with paydrivers

[AndyRAC]

Bloody hell. If that is true... What are they gaining if they manage to get Breen to leave?

Agree, that was my reaction after reading it. I'm always sceptical about these things - but that is damning. I've no reason to not believe what he says.

[Jarek Z]

It's a weird situation with people like Greensmith, Fourmaux, Loubet, Katsuta and Solberg in Rally1 when they should maybe still be in WRC2, and on the contrary people like Mikkelsen, Östberg, Suninen and Paddon sitting in WRC2 waiting for Rally1 seats.

Yes, I sometimes think that rallying as a sport is turned upside down ;)

[Danny0405]

Thanks for the info.
Is FFSA backing the 3 year program you cited?

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They helped him during the first 2 years (as a secondary backer) but as far as I know, there is almost nothing this year after his hard 2021 season so that Loubet had to find smaller sponsors to complete what is brought by the big investor I evoked.
Fourmaux doesn’t have many help from FFSA this year but for different reason: FFSA thought it was now on the track for his career with Red Bull and M-Sport so they preferred on other guys.

Well, hard choice for FFSA for next year: they have 3 drivers that are probably in the top 15 (Rossel, Fourmaux, Loubet) which is what it needed to be a professional driver but they’re all in the last third of this top 15. So none of them can obtain a seat without some backing. Probably that FFSA will have to make a choice between the 3 in its backing, depending also on some external help.

[doubled1978]

Agree, that was my reaction after reading it. I'm always sceptical about these things - but that is damning. I've no reason to not believe what he says.

I mean I can understand MSport management being somewhat frustrated at how the season has panned out after Monte, but if they are sending shitty text messages to drivers, that seems juvenile at best.
Breen seemed to not be in a great frame of mind from the start in Ypres, his interviews were a bit ‘edgy’, and it clearly didn’t get any better, as soon as he started showing any pace he was on his roof. Is this relationship already smashed?

[bandit12]

And you all say, that Adamo was a d*ck...

[mknight]

And you all say, that Adamo was a d*ck...

Adamo at his "best" was kicking people after one rally even after they were officially announced for next:
- Loeb after 6th in Monte 2020 (not exactly kicked but asked "do you really want to go to Sweden?", Loeb then only had 1 more "goodbye" start at Hyundai)
- Mikkelsen after 7th in Chile 2019, he got bad start then was told to finish after Neuville crashed and did that, only to be kicked anyway (he was 2nd on rally before and 3rd on the one after)

Both of these were officially announced for next rally.

Breen is still driving Greece after basically the worst string since Duval in 2005 (maybe I forgot someone?)

[becher]

Can somebody please explain this pressure of being the team leader/main/no. 1 driver that Breen is supposed to have that's making him crumble? What the hell are you all talking about?

Agree, apart from a few good events in the past, he was usually not very fast or made mistakes.

[steve.mandzij]

Adamo at his "best" was kicking people after one rally even after they were officially announced for next:
- Loeb after 6th in Monte 2020 (not exactly kicked but asked "do you really want to go to Sweden?", Loeb then only had 1 more "goodbye" start at Hyundai)
- Mikkelsen after 7th in Chile 2019, he got bad start then was told to finish after Neuville crashed and did that, only to be kicked anyway (he was 2nd on rally before and 3rd on the one after)

Both of these were officially announced for next rally.

Breen is still driving Greece after basically the worst string since Duval in 2005 (maybe I forgot someone?)Yeah, you forgot Fourmaux.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latvala-provides-update-on-2023-toyota-lineup/

Latvala wants to keep the same lineup at Toyota for next year.

[flat_right]

For sure, this would be a no-brainer.

[Sergiow]

And Neuville is looking for help at the higher-ups
https://twitter.com/Ben_Sulayem/status/1563536204468871168?cxt=HHwWgICjzZv55bIrAAAA

Could be that Thierry is explaining the Hyundai situation to the FIA. Former Hyundai team member Alain Penasse was hinting as such in a Wallon DHSports interview:

What's going on at Hyundai, your former team?
"There are a lot of management problems. There is no longer a real boss. Some ex-colleagues have explained things to me in confidence. Thierry also knows things, but that is something you better not tell the journalists…""

[mknight]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latvala-provides-update-on-2023-toyota-lineup/

Latvala wants to keep the same lineup at Toyota for next year.

Before Ypres and especially if the Finland roll led to retirement there could be a discussion.
But in Ypres Lappi has shown he can also do a safe point-scoring run for good points.

This puts Latvala in a very easy positions. Though I am not sure whether Adamo wouldn't want to change something anyway, but Adamo is not there.
I believe Latvala does not lie when he says nothing about Tanak.


I believe Japans objections on Katsuta not getting into main team got stopped by two Hyundai wins in a row showing that Toyota can't relax.

The only question is if Evans wants to leave by himself. I think it's very unlikely, but let's think about it:
Hyundai could try to get him in 3rd car, with Sordo retiring and Solberg in 4th.. or to replace Tanak if he goes to MSport.
MSport could also try replacing Breen (based on latest rumors).

If Evans leaves I think Latvala would just keep Lappi, Katsuta+Ogier with Katsuta getting nominated on some rounds.

[Sergiow]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/latvala-provides-update-on-2023-toyota-lineup/ Latvala wants to keep the same lineup at Toyota for next year.
To me this interview expresses the wish of Latvala to have a serious contender who can go for the wins where Rovanperä is still developping some weakness, that is Monte Carlo (a natural for Ogier) and Sardinia (where Lappi always have been fast)

[bandit12]

For sure, this would be a no-brainer.

Indeed. Toyota has good drivers and team inner chemistry looks good also. No secrets between drivers and no team orders.Why risk replacing somebody with former champion, who most surely will add tensions .
I am a fan of Tänak but he is surelu stubborn and demanding person

[lmmjvss]

uff thats harsh on Breen.
I mean... Msport is not doing so well, as we can see... The pay drivers are reeeaally weak - and Breen is not delivering much too tbh. But Loeb delivers so better drivers are required asap.
I was thinking yesterday... Imagine Msport gets Mikkelsen... then he crashes in his first race.. then some problem hits in in his second race and BOOOM. Everybody will start to "Ah, he is a R5 driver, not Rally1" - "Ah we over estimated him".

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-would-love-loeb-full-time-next-year/

Says it all I guess.

[mknight]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-would-love-loeb-full-time-next-year/

Says it all I guess.

Well there is no real info or anything to back up in the article. Just writing about something to fill up time....

They could at least try with some proper questions (like they did a few times to Millener).
Questions like:

- Does Wilson want to pay Loeb (more) for those extra starts? (one would think so, but rumors had it that RedBull is paying his starts this year)

- Do they want to increase Loeb's starts at expense of Breen?


-----------------------
Breen's goal this year was to bring some podiums or even wins to show the speed of the car, both to sponsors/partners and customers. (Millener basically said this directly). Loebs performance was uncertain after Hyundai so it was a lot about PR.

Breen didn't deliver, but Loeb showed the speed=> "kick" Breen and keep/get Loeb and paydrivers in all other cars would sound like typical MSport approach.

[AnttiL]

I think the headline is stupid, when the interview actually goes

“For sure he will not want to do a whole championship,” Wilson continued, “which is something that would appeal to us, but if we can get him for a few events then for sure we would look at it.”

[Eli]

Well there is no real info or anything to back up in the article. Just writing about something to fill up time....

They could at least try with some proper questions (like they did a few times to Millener).
Questions like:

- Does Wilson want to pay Loeb (more) for those extra starts? (one would think so, but rumors had it that RedBull is paying his starts this year)

- Do they want to increase Loeb's starts at expense of Breen?


-----------------------
Breen's goal this year was to bring some podiums or even wins to show the speed of the car, both to sponsors/partners and customers. (Millener basically said this directly). Loebs performance was uncertain after Hyundai so it was a lot about PR.

Breen didn't deliver, but Loeb showed the speed=> "kick" Breen and keep/get Loeb and paydrivers in all other cars would sound like typical MSport approach.


Yes they literally took the interview they had with Malcolm before ypres which they posted in youtube by the way.

[lmmjvss]

Dirtfish does this thing, eh? They get a week (or two) ago interview and split to repost the same thing, with a "click bait" title (not in a bad way, cuz this is sport, not politics). Haha anyway...

[Eli]

Yes this isn't the first time they've done this.

[WRCStan]

Looking through the 2022 WRC Factbook. Slightly interesting that Great Britain and Italy have dropped out of the top 10 media markets whilst Croatia and Greece join. This doesn't include WRC+ but does the live stream on eg. BT Sport. Highest audience was Japan - 74m viewers in 2021.

The top 10 WRC+ markets from 2021 are now listed as 'some of the top markets', list remains the same: USA, GB, France, Finland, Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Estonia. No Japan, yet Japanese commentary.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikkelsen-issues-reminder-that-hes-free-for-wrc-offers/

Mikkelsen has no commitments after Acropolis, so...

[TypeR]

Finally teams can fight to get him in rally1..

[rallyfiend]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikkelsen-issues-reminder-that-hes-free-for-wrc-offers/

Mikkelsen has no commitments after Acropolis, so...

I can't imagine they've lost his phone number, so I'm sure it's not ringing for a reason....

[Lead]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikkelsen-issues-reminder-that-hes-free-for-wrc-offers/

Mikkelsen has no commitments after Acropolis, so...

He seems pretty much unliked for whatever reasons. Maybe too arrogant personality at times? Dont know.
One thing is for sure - his results dont lie in WRC2 last two years - he has been the best. Combines speed and stability. Not sure if he could bring the same speed to Rally1 car, but if I were Msport boss, I would gave him a chance. It cant get worse for them as it is. Maybe Mikkelsen can show some surprises and give Msport a needed boost.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Only one of the elite drivers can make a real difference to M-Sport - one that can guarantee results and take the pressure off Breen.

But the money simply isn't there to pay the salary they require or to develop the car in the way Toyota and Hyundai can.

[flat_right]

If I would be M-Sport, I would at least give him one outing this year to see his speed with Rally1 car. We can debate if Mikkelsen has what it takes to win rallies but one thing is sure, he is one of the best finishers meaning he rarely makes mistakes. It slightly got worse when he drove with Hyundai but overall, he is a very solid driver (kind of like Sordo). So if he can do similar times like Breen (100% he will be faster than Greensmith, Loubet and Fourmaux) but also can finish, then it would be very useful for M-Sport and would give at least something back to the team.

[AnttiL]

I can't really see Mikkelsen doing better than Breen, even when given a full season. Both are good in lower categories, but on top category they cannot fight for the wins consistently.

[Sergiow]

Looking through the 2022 WRC Factbook. Slightly interesting that Great Britain and Italy have dropped out of the top 10 media markets whilst Croatia and Greece join. This doesn't include WRC+ but does the live stream on eg. BT Sport. Highest audience was Japan - 74m viewers in 2021.

The top 10 WRC+ markets from 2021 are now listed as 'some of the top markets', list remains the same: USA, GB, France, Finland, Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Estonia. No Japan, yet Japanese commentary.

I find all this a quite interesting post and I wonder how mucht the paywall (for example WRC 2022 in Italy can be watched in full on Sky.it) is affecting the audience numbers.

When researching the net for more info, I came across this academic paper regarding WRC+ All Live (!):
"The sport now guaranteed its position in every market across the world and its direct relationship with the fans. However, the culture and history of the sport played an important role in what actions the WRC Promoter GmbH could undertake. It was not a case of having a new owner, and therefore they could impose their own culture on the sport. To ensure fan enjoyment, the historical element of the event, the media product and the way the sport was run needed to be maintained. As the streaming market continues to develop, more niche sports seek to control their own media futures, and as promotion rights to sports are being bought and sold, the outcomes from the WRC+ All Live product can contain important lessons for other sports, and researchers into the future."
https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/8760297

Regarding the 2022 WRC Factbook, can't get hold of that today:
Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.wrc.com/en/footer/media/factbook/"

[lmmjvss]

I can't really see Mikkelsen doing better than Breen, even when given a full season. Both are good in lower categories, but on top category they cannot fight for the wins consistently.

Yes! :/
Its weird cuz Tanak, Tierry, Elfyn (meeehh) and Kalle are the only guys I see as Rally1 top drivers. The rest are still good, but they look like R5 drivers. Even Lappi and Breen, for example, and they are my 2 favorites! Oliver Solberg also IMO doesnt look like a potential top driver in rally1. We need to see who from R5s are capable of racing in Rally1. I mean, its not like Msport cant do better.. its not like Toyota in UNBEATABLE, right? Imagine giving more opportunities to the R5s guys... I dont see Mikkelsen being a constant front runner in rally1 but I'd try it anyway. Maybe a surprise? That'd be awesome. Then Kajto, then Lukyanuk, Kopesky etc.. who knows who can be great in rally1

[WRCStan]

I find all this a quite interesting post and I wonder how mucht the paywall (for example WRC 2022 in Italy can be watched in full on Sky.it) is affecting the audience numbers.

When researching the net for more info, I came across this academic paper regarding WRC+ All Live (!):
"The sport now guaranteed its position in every market across the world and its direct relationship with the fans. However, the culture and history of the sport played an important role in what actions the WRC Promoter GmbH could undertake. It was not a case of having a new owner, and therefore they could impose their own culture on the sport. To ensure fan enjoyment, the historical element of the event, the media product and the way the sport was run needed to be maintained. As the streaming market continues to develop, more niche sports seek to control their own media futures, and as promotion rights to sports are being bought and sold, the outcomes from the WRC+ All Live product can contain important lessons for other sports, and researchers into the future."
https://biblio.ugent.be/publication/8760297

Regarding the 2022 WRC Factbook, can't get hold of that today:
Access Denied You don't have permission to access "http://www.wrc.com/en/footer/media/factbook/"

There's more to it, but struck me that a combined population of ~130million is getting fewer viewers than a combined population of less than 15million. Winds of change, choice in languages and all that..

Factbook works for me. ?

Sam has done a few papers around the WRC. (I wonder if he visits this forum? Is active on Twitter and was doing MRF media last I was there. (I saw a study on fan forums too - can't remember who by)). I'm really keen to read this of his from last year: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24704067.2021.1972432 There's a book by his colleague Hans Erik Naess called The Sociology of the WRC, looks interesting too. In all cases though I'm not likely to pay £100s out of curiosity if all that appeals to me is the conclusion. Working on getting access through the Wikimedia library at the mo.

[mknight]

I can't really see Mikkelsen doing better than Breen, even when given a full season. Both are good in lower categories, but on top category they cannot fight for the wins consistently.
Mikkelsen should be doing about the same as Breen in his last years form. But Breen hasn't been on that level at all this year, except on Sardinia. Will he get back or is this his normal form as in Citroen and his Hyundai form was special?

Right now this year only Rovanpera and Tanak have consistently fought for wins, not even Evans and Neuville did, so this kind of metric is tricky.


Anyway Mikkelsen strength right now is his consistency and lack of crashes while likely being somewhere between 2-5 depending on rally. MSport was hoping for at least that or more from Breen, and it only got worse.

But sure it would be strange to replace Breen before he has done even one year of contract. What could happen is that Mikkelsen would be there to support Breen. Millener said just that before Finland, but then there's the money issue...

I know it's a repost in the article but I find that Millener comment about next 5-10 years funny. Where can MSport end in 5-10 years if they never perform? If one of their youngsters do perform they will leave them after 1-2 years anyway.

[flat_right]

I can't really see Mikkelsen doing better than Breen, even when given a full season. Both are good in lower categories, but on top category they cannot fight for the wins consistently.

I would have to disagree. Breen might have more raw speed (which is useful in Finland and Estonia) but overall I think they would match each other. And then in the end Mikkelsen's consistency would give him better points. I like Breen more as a driver and a person but I was just thinking if M-Sport could think the same way.

[skarderud]

He seems pretty much unliked for whatever reasons. Maybe too arrogant personality at times? Dont know.

Hard too say, but if thats a "thing", why is neuville in a seat?
He has much worse things said in public than Mikkelsen has, i can't remember any particular thing he has said negative ( at same level).

I wonder if the problem for the teams was his x-manager, Mikkelsen left EVEN to control his own carriere, but that shouldn't be a problem now?

And if its down to money, why won't Redbull put in some?
What is the numbers for a season in M-sport these days?

Abow €2.000.000?

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Jarek Z]

We need to see who from R5s are capable of racing in Rally1. I mean, its not like Msport cant do better.. its not like Toyota in UNBEATABLE, right? Imagine giving more opportunities to the R5s guys... I dont see Mikkelsen being a constant front runner in rally1 but I'd try it anyway. Maybe a surprise? That'd be awesome. Then Kajto, then Lukyanuk, Kopesky etc.. who knows who can be great in rally1

Unfortunately it's only a beautiful dream. Kajto, Lukyanuk and Kopecky are all around 40 years old and manufacturers are not interested in such "old" drivers. But based on their results in ERC I don't think they would be much slower than Loubet or Greensmith.

[lmmjvss]

Does any of these studies/papers have the NUMBER of WRC+ users? I have no idea how many people pay and watch. Honestly. Idk if its 6k or a million haha

[manthey]

Yes! :/
Its weird cuz Tanak, Tierry, Elfyn (meeehh) and Kalle are the only guys I see as Rally1 top drivers. The rest are still good, but they look like R5 drivers. Even Lappi and Breen, for example, and they are my 2 favorites! Oliver Solberg also IMO doesnt look like a potential top driver in rally1. We need to see who from R5s are capable of racing in Rally1. I mean, its not like Msport cant do better.. its not like Toyota in UNBEATABLE, right? Imagine giving more opportunities to the R5s guys... I dont see Mikkelsen being a constant front runner in rally1 but I'd try it anyway. Maybe a surprise? That'd be awesome. Then Kajto, then Lukyanuk, Kopesky etc.. who knows who can be great in rally13 on 4 already in M-Sport
Personally I don't consider Elfyn a top driver

Inviato dal mio ELE-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Eli]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-m-sport-is-holding-back-on-major-engine-upgrades/

Apparently the FIA & promoter might tweak the fuel being used in the championship next year: "

DirtFish understands from sources close to the FIA that the fuel will be ‘tweaked’ for 2023, with that fuel delivered to the teams in time for winter testing after the 2022 season closes in Japan in November.

P1’s WRC fuel uses a mixture of sustainable elements. Bio-methanol produced from farm waste is supplied by Dutch fertilizer company OCI, while Aramco was tasked with developing biofuels and sustainable synthetic fuels derived from captured carbon dioxide and low-carbon hydrogen."

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It all comes down to money for M-Sport.

They even transported the team home to Cumbria from Ypres packed in mini-buses to save on flight costs.

[rallyfiend]

It all comes down to money for M-Sport.

They even transported the team home to Cumbria from Ypres packed in mini-buses to save on flight costs.

I've had horrible time flying recently.

Driving takes the risk out of it. Because I imagine there aren't many direct flights to the north of England....

[TypeR]

It all comes down to money for M-Sport.

They even transported the team home to Cumbria from Ypres packed in mini-buses to save on flight costs.

That's actually not that weird.. Ypres is by the sea, take the boat over the channel and then straight to north, total around 700kms.

Less headache also I believe..

[WRCStan]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-m-sport-is-holding-back-on-major-engine-upgrades/

Apparently the FIA & promoter might tweak the fuel being used in the championship next year: "

DirtFish understands from sources close to the FIA that the fuel will be ‘tweaked’ for 2023, with that fuel delivered to the teams in time for winter testing after the 2022 season closes in Japan in November.

P1’s WRC fuel uses a mixture of sustainable elements. Bio-methanol produced from farm waste is supplied by Dutch fertilizer company OCI, while Aramco was tasked with developing biofuels and sustainable synthetic fuels derived from captured carbon dioxide and low-carbon hydrogen."

Is the tweak related to performance or to make production of the sustainable fuel... sustainable?

[denkimi]

What is the numbers for a season in M-sport these days?

Abow €2.000.000?

I would think at least 5 million, perhaps even up to 10.

[WRCStan]

Champions lol.

https://i.imgur.com/bBlxEyW.png

[wyler]

italian media suggesting ogier for the last 3 rounds...

http://www.areacorse.com/ogier-verso-un-finale-full/

[Eli]

More on Hyundai & Tänak regarding 2023: https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/hyundai-reviewing-2023-wrc-driver-line-up-tanak-speculation-grows/10368782/

[lmmjvss]

Tanak also left Toyota unsatisfied, right? Even with the title... What happened?

[macebig]

Where there is smoke, there is fire... Dunno if it's happening 100%, but it's sure both M-Sport Ford and Tanak are courting each other.

[bandit12]

Tanak also left Toyota unsatisfied, right? Even with the title... What happened?
Well.. he can be quite straight talking and demanding prick sometimes. Not all does not like this kind of behavior

[Rallyper]

Well.. he can be quite straight talking and demanding prick sometimes. Not all does not like this kind of behavior

However I should say these guys are competition humans. They need and demand the support they should have, to become in just in the position they want to be, and are in.
I have full respect for both Neuville, Tanak and lately even Kalle being demanding.

[bandit12]

Oh yes. I totally agree with you.
And also, Tänak has been quite polite and quiet on years 2020 to 2021.

[seb_sh]

More interesting to me is if he goes who replaces him?

[Eli]

More interesting to me is if he goes who replaces him?

Is Suninen an option? I mean, he has been there a year now, even did Monza in the WRC car last year and it's hard for me to see Toyota letting Hyundai take one of their drivers. Also, is Sordo continuing doing another 4 events for next year or are they stepping up Solberg Jr. to a full season?

[AndersX]

Why Tanak, very demanding, not so nice guy to be teammate, but super fast and ruthless rally driver would go to M-Sport, considering that M-Sport to has ok speed car, constant reliability issues (most probably bcs of budget restrains), lack of full scale budget to even run PETs...; after his contract ends with Hyundai - ok, possible, just for fun; otherway - no Ford or some other big backing, no Tanak for Malcolm.

[er88]

Would be a stupid decision to leave Hyundai for Msport. Hyundai have been constantly improving their car throughout the year and have won 3rallies in a row. 3 rallies that are very different types of events and surfaces. And the car has been more reliable than that fragile shell Msport have.

But then everyone knew moving to Hyundai from Toyota was a stupid decision, but he did that anyway!

[wyler]

Why Tanak, very demanding, not so nice guy to be teammate, but super fast and ruthless rally driver would go to M-Sport, considering that M-Sport to has ok speed car, constant reliability issues (most probably bcs of budget restrains), lack of full scale budget to even run PETs...; after his contract ends with Hyundai - ok, possible, just for fun; otherway - no Ford or some other big backing, no Tanak for Malcolm.

only reason is to be the be the only focus of the team

[meh]

Hey, just rewatch this Tänak's interview:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1149515018983661

It's just analytical #nofilter honest answer with sharing own opinion and point of view. Explaining as well, that it's a shame he was not able to fight for the lead/win because of troubles earlier.

I think it' too much drama built out of that.

For me, it's hard to see that Tänak may want to leave Hyundai and all what he and team have built there with 2 years. Car seems to be improving and there is no hope at least for next year.

At the same time I need to admit I thought the same way when he was in Toyota but he still left.

Some funny "Mäkinen" statement to conclude the situation:
https://www.facebook.com/RallyTroll/posts/pfbid0Q7gGnfcHYMGfpNBxc8bQy6WhJp9F9sgcCXibvwmq1Lsq uttcKrRa2My4mg1BTF5Vl

[meh]

Why Tanak, very demanding, not so nice guy to be teammate, ...

If you could make a poll for all Tänak's previous team-mates, I wonder, what could be the actual stats.

Tänak was/is friend with Ogier. I think the same is with Sordo. I don't remember any troubles with Evans, Latvala, Lappi or Meeke.

There is just clear mismatch with Neuville and it may say more/also about Neuville than Tänak.

[wyler]

If you could make a poll for all Tänak's previous team-mates, I wonder, what could be the actual stats.

Tänak was/is friend with Ogier. I think the same is with Sordo. I don't remember any troubles with Evans, Latvala, Lappi or Meeke.

There is just clear mismatch with Neuville and it may say more/also about Neuville than Tänak.

sordo? last friday doesn't seem so...

[becher]

If you could make a poll for all Tänak's previous team-mates, I wonder, what could be the actual stats.

Tänak was/is friend with Ogier. I think the same is with Sordo. I don't remember any troubles with Evans, Latvala, Lappi or Meeke.

There is just clear mismatch with Neuville and it may say more/also about Neuville than Tänak.

I believe Lappi wasn't too complementary of him as a team mate.

[meh]

sordo? last friday doesn't seem so...

There was some issue that Sordo didn't check phone before starting the stage and that is why he "ignored" team orders.

But friendship with Sordo made the contact with Adamo and entire movement to Hyundai.

[er88]

I don't think there is a big crisis between Neuville and Tanak yet. Tanak was actually more pissed off at clear backup driver Sordo not gifting him a place for better road position, than he was with Neuville not wanting to gift away his well deserved win. I know if roles were reversed, Tanak would be equally against gifting away a win. That's where strong team management comes in to deal with the situation...., as no top driver is going to actively decide to gift a win away. But if they're told to...

I still think they should've switched them, but even if they did, it's still a distant pipe-dream Tanak can win this championship. It will take the biggest collapse in the history of the WRC if Kalle loses it (although he is 2 rallies into a potential collapse). I have no doubt Hyundai would've switched them if Tanak was a fair bit closer to Kalle, they're surely not that amateur to not have.....

[dimviii]

IS THE CHAMPIONSHIP PRESSURE GETTING TO ROVANPERÄ?
WITH THE TITLE IN REACH, THE WRC LEADER HAS CRASHED ON THE PAST TWO ROUNDS

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/is-the-championship-pressure-getting-to-rovanpera/

[Rally Hokkaido]

Has anyone considered that Tanak may retire at the end of the season? I believe he has a reason to do so.

[meh]

Has anyone considered that Tanak may retire at the end of the season? I believe he has a reason to do so.

A reason from rallying or from personal life?

[cali]

A reason from rallying or from personal life?Personal

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[bandit12]

Can we be more specific, or should everybody start to look to crystal ball?

[cali]

Can we be more specific, or should everybody start to look to crystal ball?

I posted here about it once but since some of the members did not like it, I then removed my post. So, if anyone wants to know more specifically please PM. Not gonna let some of the guys here jump on my throat no more.

[trykmann]

I believe Lappi wasn't too complementary of him as a team mate.

According to Ott Tänak: the Movie they had a good relationship.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/what-now-for-tanak/

[bandit12]

Still milking that cow...

[seb_sh]

The only interesting thing in that article is the claim to have information about disagreements in the team from an inside source. Not that it would be hard to guess but if it's getting printed it's might be pretty bad.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The Hyundai judgement was probably that Tanak was still very unlikely to challenge Rovanpera for the Ch'ship even if they switched positions and Neuville deserved and needed the victory.

[ouvreur]

The Hyundai judgement was probably that Tanak was still very unlikely to challenge Rovanpera for the Ch'ship even if they switched positions and Neuville deserved and needed the victory.

Even if what you say was the actual thought process, it's still a vote against Tanak. Rather than backing their best chance, they admitted defeat. It would be quite something if Rovenpera ended up winning the title by less than 7 points...

[mknight]

Again I have to remind everyone of the contrast vs Toyota in Sweden 2020 where Ogier did not get teamorders vs Rovanpera who basically risked a crash (and came close to it) on PS to overhaul him.
"We don't do team orders" was basically the whole story. Before at MSport Ogier was demanding and getting teamorders already in Sweden on second rally of the year, same at Citroen.

So it does seem a bit inflated, sure Ditfish inflates it to create some buzz, but Tanak seems a bit like a spoiled child.

One good point in this article is that there is a huge contrast between Adamo/Penasse times and this. During their reign all kinds of team orders were applied, restarting drivers dropping minutes mid-stage for different road cleaning, team orders on who could push on PS etc etc.

Yet when Toyota didn't win it was more about their own mistakes than due to these tiny Hyundai things. (in 2019 it was as much about Meeke and Latvala loosing a lot of points unnecessarily due to own mistakes, in 2020 Toyota putting Rovanpera in his first season vs Breen+Sordo+Loeb combo).

It is not as straightforward "correct" decision as Dirtfish tries to make it.

[AnttiL]

Again I have to remind everyone of the contrast vs Toyota in Sweden 2020 where Ogier did not get teamorders vs Rovanpera who basically risked a crash (and came close to it) on PS to overhaul him.
"We don't do team orders" was basically the whole story. Before at MSport Ogier was demanding and getting teamorders already in Sweden on second rally of the year, same at Citroen.


What were the team orders in Sweden 2017-2019? IIRC Ogier's Sweden was ruined by heavy snowfall in 2018 and his own mistake in 2019. In 2017 he finished behind Tänak, no team orders were issued. Ogier however did get some team orders in Finland 2018, first Evans let him past on Friday for better start position and then on Sunday Suninen took time penalty to let Ogier pass.

As for Sweden 2020, Rovanperä was the third best Toyota before the power stage started so it wouldn't have made a difference if he crashed. Toyota wouldn't have gotten a 1-2-3 anyway.

[mknight]

I was thinking about Sweden 2018 yes. Most notably where Ogier got 4:10 penalty for his PowerStage ("hiding in forest" stunt) and they let Evans get 4:20 penalty just so he doesn't get ahead of Ogier in overall which would cost Ogier a single point.

In clear words. Evans who just won his first rally recently (GB 2017) as well as Suninen get pushed around with team orders for tiny advantages and one point on second rally of the year.


Then in Sweden 2020 Rovanpera in his second rally in WRC car and after finishing 5th 4mins behind Ogier in Monte (which Ogier didn't win), is allowed to take podium from Ogier without any drama. Quite a different approach.

( Toyota were 1-3-4 if Rovanpera crashed they would be 1-3).

Tldr. Imo Tanak not getting team orders is not extraordinary even by recent standards. Maybe by recent Adamo standards.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even if what you say was the actual thought process, it's still a vote against Tanak. Rather than backing their best chance, they admitted defeat. It would be quite something if Rovenpera ended up winning the title by less than 7 points...

How much of your own money would you place on that happening though ? Not much I bet.

Neuville deserved some consideration in this situation. Swapping postitions for points is one thing, but taking a victory off a driver is another... and especially one without a win for nearly a year.

[TypeR]

It isn't like taking away Neuville's first victory..
But let that be.
They gave Toyota extra 5 points on PS. Both Neuville and Sordo were driving at bicycle speed there..

[Eli]

It isn't like taking away Neuville's first victory..
But let that be.
They gave Toyota extra 5 points on PS. Both Neuville and Sordo were driving at bicycle speed there..

Bringing Oliver to most events in a Rally1 car this year probably cost them more than those 5 points, but I agree, they left a fair few points for Toyota to take in Greece. Luckily for them, Evans wasn’t there to take any.

[AnttiL]

( Toyota were 1-3-4 if Rovanpera crashed they would be 1-3).



No difference in manu points.

The thing about Acropolis 2022 situation was that the whole rally win was in question. Not even Adamo or Ogier at M-Sport demanded wins to be given away, just low positions, super rally tactical penalties or sacrificing one single point for power stage performance. We remember giving wins from Lancia team of the 80’s but when was the last time it happened in WRC? Kankkunen gave two wins to Sainz in 1997 (Greece and Indonesia).

[macebig]

Top of my mind: Australia 2011, Spain 2009, Acropolis 2000 and probably a few more...

[mknight]

How about Turkey 2019? Before Sunday Ogier and Lappi were even and Lappi just beat Ogier by 4s after a small mistake on stage before.

Immediatelly on first stage Lappi posted worst stage result of the weekend until that point and both him and Ogier started to talk about taking it safe and saving tires for PS (Ogier).

Was pretty much understood as team orders. Sure it is not giving away a clear win, but it is as close as you get.

[AnttiL]

https://twitter.com/TGR_WRC/status/1571771773493952513

Ogier drives all of NZ, Catalunya and Japan

[AnttiL]

How about Turkey 2019? Before Sunday Ogier and Lappi were even and Lappi just beat Ogier by 4s after a small mistake on stage before.

Immediatelly on first stage Lappi posted worst stage result of the weekend until that point and both him and Ogier started to talk about taking it safe and saving tires for PS (Ogier).

Was pretty much understood as team orders. Sure it is not giving away a clear win, but it is as close as you get.

I don't remember it that way. Lappi made a small mistake at a hairpin on SS12 and Ogier got past him. Lappi was still faster on SS13 and they were separated by only 0.2s at the end of Saturday. At that point, it has been just sensible to "hold positions", not like Lappi was asked to give Ogier a win.

[Eli]

Saw Antill already posted about Ogier, disregard this post.

[AndyRAC]

Interesting news about Ogier; he cut short his WEC programme to spend more time with the family...And now does the rest of the WRC season.

[AnttiL]

IIRC their kid started school now in the autumn and Ogier said the most important time for him was before that. Also, to me it seems he was surprised at how difficult WEC was for him, the results weren't really there instantly...

[Tom K]

and how boring WEC is...

[wyler]

italian media suggesting ogier for the last 3 rounds...

http://www.areacorse.com/ogier-verso-un-finale-full/

ah! they were on point!

[rp]

Not so good news for Lappi! He is out of the job completely, if Ogier will drive full season next year. It´s possible. Imagine if both Ogier and Loeb want one more title.

[seb_sh]

IIRC their kid started school now in the autumn and Ogier said the most important time for him was before that. Also, to me it seems he was surprised at how difficult WEC was for him, the results weren't really there instantly...

Also the family reason is an easy one to give. Sometimes it's true sometimes it's only part of the true full reason. I think he expected to be better and have a chance at a factory Toyota LMH seat but from his performance in LMP2 and tests in the Toyota it seems not to be the case. Maybe he realizes now that he's missing rallying and will do more events next year.

[AnttiL]

Not so good news for Lappi! He is out of the job completely, if Ogier will drive full season next year. It´s possible. Imagine if both Ogier and Loeb want one more title.

I can see Ogier returning full time, but Loeb will not.

[ouvreur]

Not so good news for Lappi! He is out of the job completely, if Ogier will drive full season next year. It´s possible. Imagine if both Ogier and Loeb want one more title.

It might not be so bad for him, if Tanak departs Hyundai... Hyundai would be in the market for an established top-level driver who wouldn't rock the Neuville boat (let's face it, the team is his)... I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Lappi or Evans driving an i20 next year. Either way, Lappi wins. If he goes, it will obviously be for a full campaign. If Evans goes, Lappi's sorted for a full season at Toyota.

[AnttiL]

I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Lappi or Evans driving an i20 next year.

I would :D

Current rumor is that Evans goes to M-Sport, Tänak to Toyota and Breen to Hyundai :D

[Eli]

I would :D

Current rumor is that Evans goes to M-Sport, Tänak to Toyota and Breen to Hyundai :D

So basically, each one going back to where he started, a part from Breen since Citroën is out.

[manthey]

No difference in manu points.

The thing about Acropolis 2022 situation was that the whole rally win was in question. Not even Adamo or Ogier at M-Sport demanded wins to be given away, just low positions, super rally tactical penalties or sacrificing one single point for power stage performance. We remember giving wins from Lancia team of the 80’s but when was the last time it happened in WRC? Kankkunen gave two wins to Sainz in 1997 (Greece and Indonesia).I'm just curious to know, what happened with Lancia in the 80's?

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[AnttiL]

I'm just curious to know, what happened with Lancia in the 80's?

Inviato dal mio ELE-L29 utilizzando Tapatalk

For example Monte Carlo 1987, Kankkunen had to give the win to Biasion. And throughout 1987 they often stopped the competition midway through the rally and decided to keep positions. And we remember Sanremo 1986 when they gave the win to Alen, although the whole rally was taken off the championship eventually.

[1988senna]

I would :D

Current rumor is that Evans goes to M-Sport, Tänak to Toyota and Breen to Hyundai :D
is that true .can you post the related rumors links
I really hope it's true .

[rallyfiend]

I would :D

Current rumor is that Evans goes to M-Sport, Tänak to Toyota and Breen to Hyundai :D

I can't see Breen going anywhere other than the Job Centre.....

[AnttiL]

is that true .can you post the related rumors links
I really hope it's true .

It’s rumors, that I’ve heard. If there would be a link, I would have posted it.

[manthey]

For example Monte Carlo 1987, Kankkunen had to give the win to Biasion. And throughout 1987 they often stopped the competition midway through the rally and decided to keep positions. And we remember Sanremo 1986 when they gave the win to Alen, although the whole rally was taken off the championship eventually.Thanks, so very clear team orders

[ouvreur]

I would :D

Current rumor is that Evans goes to M-Sport, Tänak to Toyota and Breen to Hyundai :D
Nah, that’s last week’s rumour! It’s New Rumour Monday!

Next week - Ogier to Hyundai, Neuville to M-Sport, Greensmith to Toyota!

You heard it here first… then again… maybe you didn’t!

[seb_sh]

And what if Ogier decides to unretire or do something like half a season? Ogier-Tanak-Rovanperä superteam at Toyota?

[rallyfiend]

The best thing for the WRC would be for Ogier to go to Hyundai (they can afford him...) and for Tanak to got to Ford (he's not wanted anywhere else - he's an absolute disrupter...).

[AnttiL]

Nah, that’s last week’s rumour! It’s New Rumour Monday!

Next week - Ogier to Hyundai, Neuville to M-Sport, Greensmith to Toyota!

You heard it here first… then again… maybe you didn’t!

Katsuta to Hyundai maybe :D

[denkimi]

why not 2 toyota teams? one with rovanpera, evans and ogier, and one with tanak, neuville and lappi.
Hyundai could just buy toyota cars and put hyundai stickers on them, that would make things a lot more equal.

[ouvreur]

why not 2 toyota teams? one with rovanpera, evans and ogier, and one with tanak, neuville and lappi.
Hyundai could just buy toyota cars and put hyundai stickers on them, that would make things a lot more equal.

Depends where you're using them... if that happened, you'd see an M-Sport 1-2-3-4-5 in Greece next year...

[meh]

Topic says "2022 WRC News & Rumours" but seems more like a fantasy competition.

[ouvreur]

To be fair, even the mental stuff people come up with on here, is no crazier / more desperate than what gets published on Dirtfish :laugh:

[AnttiL]

According to Jouhki on YLE, Evans has a contract with Toyota for next year. I don't know if it has been published elsewhere.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12630563

[TypeR]

According to Jouhki on YLE, Evans has a contract with Toyota for next year. I don't know if it has been published elsewhere.

https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-12630563
Good answers from Anttila!

Jouhki clearly hoping that Tänak won't go back to Toyota as Kalle wouldn't have ,,car advantages'' anymore.. :D

[manthey]

Good answers from Anttila!

Jouhki clearly hoping that Tänak won't go back to Toyota as Kalle wouldn't have ,,car advantages'' anymore.. :DAdvantages about latest specs on the car?

[AnttiL]

Advantages about latest specs on the car?

Toyota > Hyundai

[ouvreur]

Toyota > Hyundai
Not since Estonia... New Zealand will be an interesting test.

[AnttiL]

https://soymotor.com/coches/noticias/dani-sordo-seguira-en-hyundai-en-2023-con-un-programa-mas-amplio-999928

Sordo to continue with Hyundai on a broader program

[1988senna]

Good answers from Anttila!

Jouhki clearly hoping that Tänak won't go back to Toyota as Kalle wouldn't have ,,car advantages'' anymore.. :D

You are absolutly right，The best thing to Jouhki is Tanka retire from the sport ,can't threaten to Kalle ,also can
leave a chance for sunnien,What a "beatiful dream" for Jouhki.But for sure that will never happen at least in 2023

[bandit12]

https://soymotor.com/coches/noticias/dani-sordo-seguira-en-hyundai-en-2023-con-un-programa-mas-amplio-999928

Sordo to continue with Hyundai on a broader program

This is interesting. Less time for Solberg? Or will they replace him with Suninen...

[TypeR]

This is interesting. Less time for Solberg? Or will they replace him with Suninen...

Regardless of Oliver's performance in 22', to me there is no way that he will do less rallies next season..

Sordo and Suninen sharing 3rd/4th car?

[pantealex]

Katsuta to Hyundai maybe :D

way more likely than Greensmith to Toyota ;)

[Eli]

Regardless of Oliver's performance in 22', to me there is no way that he will do less rallies next season..

Sordo and Suninen sharing 3rd/4th car?

If Tänak does leave then they’re left with both his and Oliver’s current seats to share between Oliver, Sordo & Suninen.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/tosi-hyvin-salattu-jos-niin-kay-esapekka-lapilta-ja-sebastien-ogierilta-arvio-tanakin-tulevaisuudesta/

Lappi and Ogier say no Tänak to Toyota.

[TypeR]

Lappi not worried.. but if Ogier decides to do full season then Lappi is out of seat..

[Portimao]

Are there any rumors considering Ogier doing full season?

[EstWRC]

https://www.rallit.fi/tosi-hyvin-salattu-jos-niin-kay-esapekka-lapilta-ja-sebastien-ogierilta-arvio-tanakin-tulevaisuudesta/

Lappi and Ogier say no Tänak to Toyota.

They didn’t really say strict no Antti. At least not in the English translated version

About Ogier returning full time. Ingrassia announced this week on Facebook that he ditched the Dakar programme

Interesting

[rallyfiend]

They didn’t really say strict no Antti. At least not in the English translated version

About Ogier returning full time. Ingrassia announced this week on Facebook that he ditched the Dakar programme

Interesting

Did Ingrassia mention that he was ditching, or that he was being ditched because he hadn't found a drive? I assume entries close quite soon.....

[Eli]

Did Ingrassia mention that he was ditching, or that he was being ditched because he hadn't found a drive? I assume entries close quite soon.....

He said he didn’t have enough preparations for this year’s event but didn’t mention any other plans, maybe he’ll just do Monte with Seb so they can challenge for the win again?

[tommeke_B]

Ogier is now driving with Veillas, why should Ingrassia's choices feed any "rumors"?

[TypeR]

Ogier is now driving with Veillas, why should Ingrassia's choices feed any "rumors"?
Didn't Ingrassia say/hint that he wasn't interested in doing only some events..?

If Ogier does full season, it means he goes for the title and I'm sure Ingrassia would like to do it..

[EstWRC]

Spain will be Paul Nagles last event

https://twitter.com/paulnagle1/status/1577548092395687938?s=46&t=2_ocpZAEcBBoPlDs4k4cVg

[bandit12]

Oh fck

Now what?

[rallyfiend]

Marshall in with Breen?

[EstWRC]

Marshall in with Breen?

If he fits into the car. As far as I know Oliver wanted him for this season but the issue is that he is too tall for these cars and very uncomfortable for him

Dirtfish article about this https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/breens-co-driver-nagle-to-retire-after-spain/

[cali]

Daniel Barritt

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[prpr]

Paul Nagle to retire from World Rally Championship after Rally Catalunya at end of month.

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/sport/other-sports/paul-nagle-to-retire-from-world-rally-championship-after-rally-catalunya-at-end-of-month-42035312.html

[meh]

Paul Nagle to retire from World Rally Championship after Rally Catalunya at end of month.

https://m.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/sport/other-sports/paul-nagle-to-retire-from-world-rally-championship-after-rally-catalunya-at-end-of-month-42035312.html

It still rises the question - why to not do the last rally and full season? Feels that there are some more reasons than "ok, I finish my career here".

[rallyfiend]

It still rises the question - why to not do the last rally and full season? Feels that there are some more reasons than "ok, I finish my career here".

Is he unvaccinated and thus unable to enter Japan without some quarantine? Could it be something like that?

[EstWRC]

Is he unvaccinated and thus unable to enter Japan without some quarantine? Could it be something like that?

He is going to Japan as you can read from the article.

He is also brining the reason out why he isn’t participating there cause he is helping to teach the new guy.

Cmon guys read more than just the headline

[AnttiL]

Same with Greensmith and Patterson, let the new guy practice before going to Monte

I’ve heard the name John Rowan brought up

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Could be a good idea for Breen also. A new co-driver may help to reduce his mistakes.

[seb_sh]

It still rises the question - why to not do the last rally and full season? Feels that there are some more reasons than "ok, I finish my career here".


Is he unvaccinated and thus unable to enter Japan without some quarantine? Could it be something like that?

Wow that's quite some gymnastics guys. He says he agreed with Craig to give the next co driver an extra rally before Monte. And he says he will be in Japan to support him.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/breens-co-driver-nagle-to-retire-after-spain/

[Jewy46]

Same with Greensmith and Patterson, let the new guy practice before going to Monte

I’ve heard the name John Rowan brought up

Also James Fulton is a possibility, he has been doing gravel notes for him and is an excellent co-driver at national level here.

I would be happy if he stayed with an Irish co-driver as not only would it keep it an all Irish crew but would be a great opportunity for a young navigator.

But at the same token I would understand if he went with an experienced WRC navi like Seb Marhsall, Dan Barritt etc.

Just on Paul he deserves huge credit, an amazing career and an excellent ambassador for the sport in Ireland. Always a gentleman also when we met him.
"Jesus Christ Kris!" That wont be forgotten for a long time :)

[WRCStan]

I would be happy if he stayed with an Irish co-driver as not only would it keep it an all Irish crew but would be a great opportunity for a young navigator.

It'll be 'JWRC Champion' Brian Hoy won't it?

[dimviii]

“Kris [Meeke] definitely wants to come back, I’m sure! Hayden [Paddon] could be an option as well. There are not a lot of options, but I guess between Mikkelsen, Sordo and Elfyn, they are the three best.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/neuville-believes-solberg-should-be-in-a-fourth-car-instead/

[mknight]

Well I have been saying for at least a year that Solberg needs stable program without pressure, being nominated Hyundai driver is not that. Whether it's 4th car or full Rally2 season (without jumps to Rally1) doesn't imo matter that much.

What is really interesting here is that he even mentions Meeke and Paddon, but no word about Suninen.

EDiT: Most notably since Neuville has historically been at odds with Paddon. So what does he have against Suninen? I agree those 3 are better choice than Suninen, but Meeke and Paddon not so sure. Meeke lack reliability and Paddon isn't really on same level as in 2018 (yet?), but has Hyundai backing.

[rp]

Yes. It´s a surprise that Neuville mentions Paddon. Would be good for Solberg to drive 4th car. Sordo and Suninen will share 3rd car.

[doubled1978]

I would like to see Meeke back, I know he isn’t the one most likely, but I did love the jeopardy of it!

[AnttiL]

Well I have been saying for at least a year that Solberg needs stable program without pressure, being nominated Hyundai driver is not that. Whether it's 4th car or full Rally2 season (without jumps to Rally1) doesn't imo matter that much.

What is really interesting here is that he even mentions Meeke and Paddon, but no word about Suninen.

EDiT: Most notably since Neuville has historically been at odds with Paddon. So what does he have against Suninen? I agree those 3 are better choice than Suninen, but Meeke and Paddon not so sure. Meeke lack reliability and Paddon isn't really on same level as in 2018 (yet?), but has Hyundai backing.

Maybe he just forgot Suninen? Meeke and Paddon have been so much out of WRC that I can’t see them returning full-time anymore

[satnav]

James Fulton has been working with Craig and Paul all year on events so i'd not be surprised if he moves up to the hot seat.

[becher]

Maybe he just forgot Suninen? Meeke and Paddon have been so much out of WRC that I can’t see them returning full-time anymore
I'm inclined to agree, he isn't a media spokesperson giving official answers in this case after all.

[wyler]

Solberg out!

[er88]

Malcolm has to be on the phone to the Solbergs and bring Oliver in.

It's an absolute must. Ofcourse he's had a difficult year but he's still got potential to develop into a great. Msport can't attract a top tier driver so they have to nurture one, and frankly Greensmith and Breen etc will never be top tier.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Malcolm has to be on the phone to the Solbergs and bring Oliver in.

It's an absolute must. Ofcourse he's had a difficult year but he's still got potential to develop into a great. Msport can't attract a top tier driver so they have to nurture one, and frankly Greensmith and Breen etc will never be top tier.

Or vice versa. Who needs who more ?

Plus the Solberg's main sponsor being Monster may make it tricky with M-Sport''s other drivers being with Red Bull.

[seb_sh]

Or vice versa. Who needs who more ?

Plus the Solberg's main sponsor being Monster may make it tricky with M-Sport''s other drivers being with Red Bull.

The best for Oliver would be a year in WRC2 in my opinion. Maybe with a few rallies in Rally 1.

[er88]

Or vice versa. Who needs who more ?

Plus the Solberg's main sponsor being Monster may make it tricky with M-Sport''s other drivers being with Red Bull.If Msport don't sign the best young talent in rallying, when they can't attract the best drivers/have a poor lineup, they should just call it quits....

[TypeR]

I'd really like to see him have a shot with Puma.. we all know Loubet's story.
Solberg has so few experience with big car and if it happens to be Hyundai, then it is many times harder to manage..

[AnttiL]

The best for Oliver would be a year in WRC2 in my opinion. Maybe with a few rallies in Rally 1.

No, just WRC2.

[TWRC]

No, just WRC2.

I agree. Also, having someone (who is not his family!) that he can learn from would benefit him as well.

[Rallyper]

Why would he go back to WRC2 unless he hasn´t any other options.
He´s already used to RC1 cars. WRC2 wont do him any good except for getting more stageknowledge...

[Essaj]

Why would he go back to WRC2 unless he hasn´t any other options.
He´s already used to RC1 cars. WRC2 wont do him any good except for getting more stageknowledge...

He needs to learn to win and WRC2 is way to do that. Oliver had just 1 RC2 win in WRC where as Kalle won the championship before going to main class. Kalle finished 3rd on his 2nd ever start - Oli is yet to win a stage.
Stepping down makes a lot sense.

[Eli]

He needs to learn to win and WRC2 is way to do that. Oliver had just 1 RC2 win in WRC where as Kalle won the championship before going to main class. Kalle finished 3rd on his 2nd ever start - Oli is yet to win a stage.
Stepping down makes a lot sense.

Rovanperä won the WRC 2 (& Pro in 2019) category before stepping up to WRC, Oliver has yet to accomplish anything remotely close to that, okay he's finished second in the ERC back in 2020, but that's still not enough to build on. He's still young, & has plenty of time to get back to the main category.

[Rallyper]

I´m not buying that "he has to win in WRC2 before stepping up". It seems to come from you guys never drove a rallycar. Don´t exemplify from some guys. We can find lot of guys never winning a championship in WRC2 now driving RC1 cars.
He is used to cars since a kid and done a lot of winning with four wheels. WRC2 is not THE solution. If he can, he should continue in WRC.

Other thing is if he doesn´t get a seat he has to keep driving. Only the WRC2 would be an option.

[denkimi]

I never understood why anyone would have wanted to have Solberg drive for them, except for the hope he turns out to be another rovanpera due to his name.
Let him drive wrc2 and prove he is actually a top driver that could do well in wrc first.
Hiring drivers for their name is not often a succes.

[Rallyper]

I never understood why anyone would have wanted to have Solberg drive for them, except for the hope he turns out to be another rovanpera due to his name.
Let him drive wrc2 and prove he is actually a top driver that could do well in wrc first.
Hiring drivers for their name is not often a succes.

By name...?

[steve.mandzij]

By name...?don't be daft, a single ERC win and "fast" stage times on his debut three years ago is nowhere near enough qualifications to get a factory seat. if he weren't a Solberg he'd be battling Bulacia in WRC2

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[mknight]

I´m not buying that "he has to win in WRC2 before stepping up". It seems to come from you guys never drove a rallycar. Don´t exemplify from some guys. We can find lot of guys never winning a championship in WRC2 now driving RC1 cars.
He is used to cars since a kid and done a lot of winning with four wheels. WRC2 is not THE solution. If he can, he should continue in WRC.

Other thing is if he doesn´t get a seat he has to keep driving. Only the WRC2 would be an option.

He has to learn to perform over the whole rally when it is expected of him. For this part it doesn't matter at all whether it's Rally2 or Rally1. But in Rally1 pressure and competition is tougher and crashes more expensive.

Oliver has won a single rally in WRC2 (Estonia 2020), but even then he wasn't scoring WRC2 points so Østberg had little motivation to fight with him.

I was actually really surprised they dropped him completely, was expecting 4th car or Rally2 program. Nevertheless this is exactly what I warned about when Adamo? started pushing him up in 2021. That if he doesn't rapidly improve and some new? leadership is not mad about him he might end badly at end of his 2 year deal. I wrote tons of posts about this. Yet, "I told you so" doesn't help anyone.

Hope he gets a stable program where he can develop at his own pace instead of getting pushed around. Rally2 Skoda or (more risky) Puma.

[seb_sh]

Stepping down worked for both Tanak and Evans, they came back stronger. Solberg was pushed up too soon and failed to deliver so it's time to go down a step and show he is a good rally driver.

[manthey]

I never understood why anyone would have wanted to have Solberg drive for them, except for the hope he turns out to be another rovanpera due to his name.
Let him drive wrc2 and prove he is actually a top driver that could do well in wrc first.
Hiring drivers for their name is not often a succes.Also Ott was downgraded to R5 before back stronger

Edit: I wrote at the same time previous post

[dimviii]

Kalle Rovanperä
@KalleRovanpera
·
5h
Next week Roope Korhonen and I will participate Rallylegend in San Marino!
We will drive this Latvala Motorsport Toyota Celica ST185 in the star class!
Joining us from Finland will be my dad Harri, TGR team principal Jari-Matti Latvala and legendary flying Finn Markku Alén!


[img][https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fec-KA8WAAASMHM?format=jpg&name=large/img]

https://twitter.com/KalleRovanpera/status/1578298705140076544

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Some big Hyundai rumours here reported to be from Motorsport.com...

Tanak not at Hyundai in 2023 and may retire and Breen to return and also Mikkelsen !

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cjh3DEBjIod/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[AnttiL]

Some big Hyundai rumours here reported to be from Motorsport.com...

Tanak not at Hyundai in 2023 and may retire and Breen to return and also Mikkelsen !

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cjh3DEBjIod/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

The same rumors have been circulating for a while now.

But in this case it would be interesting for M-Sport, their no1 driver would be Greensmith?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I've not heard of Breen returning before.

Here's the article...

https://it.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-fuori-tanak-e-solberg-tornano-mikkelsen-e-breen/10378708/?nrt=193

[AnttiL]

I've not heard of Breen returning before.


I posted here 19th September. https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?42020-2022-WRC-News-amp-Rumours&p=1309495&viewfull=1#post1309495

Also this article came out a week ago https://www.rallyssimo.it/2022/10/06/hyundai-2023/

[WRCStan]

I've not heard of Breen returning before.

Here's the article...

https://it.motorsport.com/wrc/news/wrc-hyundai-2023-fuori-tanak-e-solberg-tornano-mikkelsen-e-breen/10378708/?nrt=193

"The real surprise 2023 is linked to the possible return of Craig Breen to Alzenau after only one season spent in M-Sport. The Northern Irishman..."

Fake news!

[WRCStan]

Talking of rumours though with all these wild stabs, that there isn't anything published of a Peugeot entry next year may suggest the reporters and publishers with formal ties have agreed to an embargo.

[skarderud]

Talking of rumours though with all these wild stabs, that there isn't anything published of a Peugeot entry next year may suggest the reporters and publishers with formal ties have agreed to an embargo.Citröen is expected to withdraw, so Peugeot back in Rally2 is good then.
Stellantis want one brand in eatch class mr tavares said in a intervju.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

[Eli]

Citröen is expected to withdraw, so Peugeot back in Rally2 is good then.
Stellantis want one brand in each class mr tavares said in a interview.

Sent fra min SM-G950F via Tapatalk

Peugeot back in Rally2, where did that come from?