2022 WRC News & Rumours

[Portimao]

Rally Estonia passes on sale now. 85 euros.

I don't know but it seems kinda a lot to be honest.

[Hartusvuori]

I don't know but it seems kinda a lot to be honest.

When I go to see a play at a theatre, it can be 69 euros for a ticket. Rally passes are what they are.

Any news what will be the goverment support for Rally Estonia next year?

[AnttiL]

A three day rock festival can be 200 euros, rally is still cheap!

[Mirek]

A three day rock festival can be 200 euros, rally is still cheap!

The issue with rallying is that unlike those festivals the rally is usually held on estates the organizers never rented. Hence why you have countries where asking for any entry fee is illegal (France for example) or at least very questionable and therefore not forcefully demanded if you don't pay more or less voluntarily (here for example). That creates a situation when in some countries you pay a lot, in others you pay just a few Euros and in others you don't pay at all - for the same thing.

[liposh]

I don´t go at rock festivals and when I buy tickets to theater it is always under 20,- EUR, so it simply IS expensive. You may not agree with me, but that´s all you can do with my opinion ...:-D

[denkimi]

A three day rock festival can be 200 euros, rally is still cheap!

4 days of tomorrowland easily cost 600€.

[Tauri_J]

When I go to see a play at a theatre, it can be 69 euros for a ticket. Rally passes are what they are.

Any news what will be the goverment support for Rally Estonia next year?

Last year it was 2.5 millions. No news about next years backing. Should remain about same imo.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Tanak on Adamo:

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-tanak-will-miss-the-quite-impressive-adamo/

[dimviii]

Defending World Rally Champion Sébastien Ogier says there is a “huge question mark” over how many Rally1 cars will run without reliability issues when they debut on the opening round of the 2022 World Rally Championship season.

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ogier-huge-uncertainty-over-100-reliability-early-in-2022/

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Two cars on Monte for M-Sport ?

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-sport-yet-to-enter-loeb-for-monte/

[er88]

What a joke they'd be.

However I'm sure they'll have at least a 3rd car - probably 4.. Find it hard to understand why you'd develop and test with Fourmaux so much - after him showing he has genuine future potential, only to not run him in Monte while Greensmith starts.

Unless Msport are getting too greedy with their demands for money/backing/sponsorship

[macebig]

Dirtfish jerking around as usual lately... Fourmaux, Greensmith and Breen are starting RMC. The only question is if a 4th Puma runs and with who behind the wheel.

[bandit12]

Tanak ofcourse.

[mknight]

Tanak ofcourse.

Yep ;)


Anyway this announcement is just dirtfish building up expectations for the MSport announcement. Likely ordered or even paid by MSport.

[WRCStan]

Yep ;)


Anyway this announcement is just dirtfish building up expectations for the MSport announcement. Likely ordered or even paid by MSport.

Sources close to the negotiations can neither deny or confirm this statement.

I just noticed Seb Loeb is listed as a priority driver for Rally Raid. Doesn't necessarily mean anything more than Dakar, or that more rounds will conflict with WRC rounds/program but sources close to this post are stoking the fire and making noises like a ghost. "Oooooooohhhhhh".

[the sniper]

Likely ordered or even paid by MSport.

M-Sport, pay...?! I don't think so.

Probably just 'you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours', like with Adamo.

[Mirek]

What a joke they'd be.

However I'm sure they'll have at least a 3rd car - probably 4.. Find it hard to understand why you'd develop and test with Fourmaux so much - after him showing he has genuine future potential, only to not run him in Monte while Greensmith starts.

Unless Msport are getting too greedy with their demands for money/backing/sponsorship

Monte Carlo is about to happen in just a few weeks and there are Christmas here as well. Due to the general lateness of the WRC development it must be difficult to make everything ready in time. Moreover running three cars is not the same as building them while even that is for sure challenging at this point.

[er88]

Thankfully as others have said think this is just building upto an announcement from Msport that can be turned into a positive. 3 cars at least.

[cmac]

As i said 5 weeks ago, Loeb signed to drive for m-sport at the end of october. If he did'nt do monte carlo there was no other outings.
Fourmaux will do a full campaign as well.
Dirtfish know this and are just trying to build the drama.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGrBGx8XsAI6wVO?format=jpg&name=large

[WRCStan]

Rally1 will be Article 262. In the names we've seen, GR Yaris WRC Rally1 and i20 N WRC Rally1, it can't be meaning World Rally Car as I think I've seen a discussion on. Small stuff yes, but still.

Edit: Rally1 is a World Rally Car.

[mknight]

"the person nominated as the driver on the entry form must now drive on the special stages"

No more rally wins for Reeta.... (though she might have some real driving talents)

Anyway the reason why this started in the first place was that WRC3 couldn't enter without scoring points, unlike WRC2 which could. So hopefully they will be able to do that.

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGu4QFuWQAkncxY?format=jpg&name=medium

[Andre Oliveira]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGu4-xnXMAYcE2b?format=jpg&name=medium

[Franky]

Why isn't there a WRC2 Seniors Cup for drivers and co-drivers?

[Andre Oliveira]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/wrcsr_2022_16-12-21_green_highlights_0.pdf

[Andre Oliveira]

Why isn't there a WRC2 Seniors Cup for drivers and co-drivers?

WRC Master?

[rallyfiend]

What a complete load of bollocks that WRC2 structure now is.

Matton really didn't learn from that WRC2 Pro shambles, did he?

[WRCStan]

What a complete load of bollocks that WRC2 structure now is.

Matton really didn't learn from that WRC2 Pro shambles, did he?

What is so difficult to understand - it's perfect? Teams, drivers and co-driver championship with additional titles for under 30s and over 50s.

The WRC3 and WRC3 Junior however, is a shambles. There is no additional JWRC as previously discussed.

[TypeR]

Loubet won't continue with Hyundai
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loubet-splits-with-2c-but-working-on-wrc-stay/

[AnttiL]

It was announced earlier that Hyundai 2C Team won’t continue (with Rally1 cars)

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-tom-fowler-emerges-as-hyundai-team-principal-candidate/

Whoa

[RS]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGu4-xnXMAYcE2b?format=jpg&name=medium

Who do they have in mind for the old people category? Have Skoda re-signed Stig Blomqvist again?

[AnttiL]

For example Mauro Miele, Paulo Nobre, Armin Kremer and Enrico Brazzoli started in WRC2/3 last year. But I don't understand the need for this category.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/toyotas-tom-fowler-emerges-as-hyundai-team-principal-candidate/

Whoa

Hyundai are desperate with the crazy timescale for 2022 so Fowler could probably name his price.

[WRCStan]

For example Mauro Miele, Paulo Nobre, Armin Kremer and Enrico Brazzoli started in WRC2/3 last year. But I don't understand the need for this category.

FIA understand that young people have no money. The Silver Cup subsidises the Avocado on Toast Cup.

[Gonek]

Hyundai are desperate with the crazy timescale for 2022 so Fowler could probably name his price.

Why do you think Hyundai is desperate? It seems, that it's Dirtfish which is much more desperate making so many suggestions and personal marketing for certain people...

[Franky]

Maybe N.O.T as substitute for Mr. Noh?

[macebig]

Dirtfish is starting to lose it... Ok, it's a slow news period, but instead of rumor mongering maybe do some actual reporting? For example, Autosport International has been postponed. Get the scoop on that and do some reportage on how it affects the rallying world... But, I'd guess throwing names and dumb votes (who the hell greenlighted Octavia as best WRC in history?) is easier than actual journalism...🤷

[seb_sh]

Dirtfish is starting to lose it.

Sadly they never had it.

[WRCStan]

Dirtfish is starting to lose it... Ok, it's a slow news period, but instead of rumor mongering maybe do some actual reporting? For example, Autosport International has been postponed. Get the scoop on that and do some reportage on how it affects the rallying world... But, I'd guess throwing names and dumb votes (who the hell greenlighted Octavia as best WRC in history?) is easier than actual journalism...��

How can they get the scoop on an event being organised by another motorsport media company that the chief editor walked out on? They're a Rally School branched out to web media with good contacts in the service park, playing their part and balancing their position in the WRC PR game with what we can be honest, is approved or obvious news. This ain't politics, it's PR. After about 5 pieces of 'actual journalism' an 'actual journalist' will run out of actual sources.

We're here at the same point again where a member of MotorsportForums attacks anybody doing anything instead of doing something themselves.

[macebig]

Autosport International was just an example. There are quite a few more legitimate reportages they could have pushed on (ie sending someone to cover M Sport's Arctic test or having info from today's Hyundai one), instead of connecting everyone and their mother with the Hyundai principal job or green lighting a clearly manipulated vote.
Just my 2 cents. Don't really have any beef with Dirtfish, but they seem to set themselves up as the premiere destination for rally news. Useless gossip ain't needed.

[rallyfiend]

Hyundai are desperate with the crazy timescale for 2022 so Fowler could probably name his price.

Even if this story was true, one can't imagine he'd even be allowed to start there for at least 6 months....

[PLuto]

What is so difficult to understand - it's perfect? Teams, drivers and co-driver championship with additional titles for under 30s and over 50s.

The WRC3 and WRC3 Junior however, is a shambles. There is no additional JWRC as previously discussed.

I think WRC3 Junior = exJWRC.

[PLuto]

For example Mauro Miele, Paulo Nobre, Armin Kremer and Enrico Brazzoli started in WRC2/3 last year. But I don't understand the need for this category.

We have started with idea of senior category in ERC few years ago (with slightly different rules). But it was refused by FIA...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Even if this story was true, one can't imagine he'd even be allowed to start there for at least 6 months....

I never said it was even likely. Why leave to join a team you just beat.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Why do you think Hyundai is desperate?

When questioned on the timing, one source told DirtFish earlier this week: “Yesterday. That’s when it needed to be done. In fact, a week yesterday.

“It’s almost 10 days already and no movement on this is bad. This is a crucial time for the team and a time when the team needs leadership.”

[WRCStan]

I think WRC3 Junior = exJWRC.

Yes, that's clear but the wrong way to go IMO when you compare it to WRC2 Junior. No consistency, a 25yr old in WRC2 is a Junior. A 25yr old in WRC3 might be a Junior, it depends on whether s/he paid the dues and did 5 specific rounds. Try explaining to the kids if an unofficial Junior wins the open class. Messy.


Also what happened to the Rookie cups?

[Lancia Stratos]

There are quite a few more legitimate reportages they could have pushed on (ie sending someone to cover M Sport's Arctic test .

Lol!!

[ouvreur]

When questioned on the timing, one source told DirtFish earlier this week: “Yesterday. That’s when it needed to be done. In fact, a week yesterday.

“It’s almost 10 days already and no movement on this is bad. This is a crucial time for the team and a time when the team needs leadership.”

The question is, how well placed is that source? How well informed?

The way I see it, the team needs to get its house in order after a couple of years of Adamo. You don't do something like that overnight. He was running everything there, they'll need a couple of people to do what he was doing all by himself, which won't be easy.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The question is, how well placed is that source? How well informed?

The way I see it, the team needs to get its house in order after a couple of years of Adamo. You don't do something like that overnight. He was running everything there, they'll need a couple of people to do what he was doing all by himself, which won't be easy.

It doesn't even need a great source, its a blatant fact that this change couldn't have had worse timing. Their Rally1 development programme was already running late, and then the test car was destroyed.

[er88]

It doesn't even need a great source, its a blatant fact that this change couldn't have had worse timing. Their Rally1 development programme was already running late, and then the test car was destroyed.It's not ideal but everyone else is still there though. Plans/schedules will have already been mapped out as has been seen by the testing ALL last week and continuing into this week. Adamo leaving hasn't left the team in the lurch, there's a lot of capable people who can keep the testing and development etc going.

Reckon they will have someone new in place before their next batch of testing after new year (which will already have been planned for). Adamo was just one man - not everything has just descended into chaos because he has left.

[rallyfiend]

It's not ideal but everyone else is still there though. Plans/schedules will have already been mapped out as has been seen by the testing ALL last week and continuing into this week. Adamo leaving hasn't left the team in the lurch, there's a lot of capable people who can keep the testing and development etc going.

Reckon they will have someone new in place before their next batch of testing after new year (which will already have been planned for). Adamo was just one man - not everything has just descended into chaos because he has left.

I bet there are a LOT of things that have been improved since he left... Notably morale, decision-making processes, and psycho-factor...

[ouvreur]

Precisely. It's an opportunity for a team that looked rather lost at times in 2021, and didn't always cover itself in glory with its decision making, to refresh, recharge, and go into 2022 with a positive outlook.

If not now, when? At least they've had a few working weeks to steady the ship, and make plans for early 2022. This would have been far worse if it had happened over the winter break, or in the lead up to Monte.

[Tom K]

Guys, one confusion:

As they have merged WRC 2 and WRC 3 I thought they mixed the rules in the easiest way, but I can not understand some bits. My understanding was that they are doing WRC 2 (OPEN, so for all in case of drivers/co-drivers) plus WRC 2 Junior, Master Cup and Teams. But:

6.2.1 In order to score points in the WRC2 Championship for
Teams supported by a Manufacturer or independent, Drivers,
Co-Drivers, Junior, Master and Teams must register with the
FIA before the closing date of entries of the first rally entered.
Registration in the WRC2 Championships is set at €100,000
for teams with the Manufacturer name in the title or €10,000
for an independent team. Any manufacturer registered as per
Art. 5.2 does not need to pay the individual WRC2 Championship fee for Manufacturers. Registration for the WRC2 Open
Championship, set at €3,000, must be made in the name
of a driver holding a current and valid competitor’s licence.

After this (and last year WRC 3) I would understand that we will have one WRC 2 champion for Drivers, regardless he will be entered as a Team or himself (Mikkelsen could be as Toksport (10k euro) or as Andreas Mikkelsen (3k euro)

and now:

6.4.1 (partly).... Points scored in the Support Championships shall
always be in the name of the team, driver and co-driver.

6.4.3 The WRC2 Champion titles for Drivers, Co-Drivers and Juniors
will be awarded to the driver and co-driver who have scored
the highest number of points from 6 of the 7 rallies in which
they were entered by a team registered in the WRC2 Championship and nominated to score points.

So to win drivers championship Mikkelsen should paid 10k euro (to be a team) + 3k euro (for WRC 2 Open) or it is a mistake? This paragraph is not marked in green, so they've just made copy/paste...

But to be classified as a team, you should enter 2 cars. So driver needs register team and pay 10k euro, but the team will not be allowed to score points for itself unless it has 2 cars...

[AnttiL]

I understand it this way:

- Skoda registers as manufacturer team in WRC2, 100 000 euros
- Toksport registers as independent team in WRC2, 10 000 euros
- Mikkelsen registers as a driver in WRC2 Open, 3000 euros

It's a different thing if you want to drive in WRC2 but you are not in a team. Basically you have to put up your own team for this purpose, and pay that 10 000 entry fee. Otherwise you can only do a non-priority start in a Rally2 car in a WRC event.

Right now it seems there's no manufacturers that would register for WRC2 manufacturer but is not a Rally1 manufacturer. Skoda did this in 2019 but after that Skodas have been run through Toksport. Also Citroens are run through private teams only. Hyundai and M-Sport are manufacturers for Rally1 cars, so they don't have to pay separate manufacturer entry fee for WRC2.

[Tom K]

I understand it this way:

- Skoda registers as manufacturer team in WRC2, 100 000 euros
- Toksport registers as independent team in WRC2, 10 000 euros
- Mikkelsen registers as a driver in WRC2 Open, 3000 euros

It's a different thing if you want to drive in WRC2 but you are not in a team. Basically you have to put up your own team for this purpose, and pay that 10 000 entry fee. Otherwise you can only do a non-priority start in a Rally2 car in a WRC event.


So they merged both championship and now forced majority of guys to create "team" and pay 13k to be a WRC2 driver's champion (Team 10k + 3k for Open). Moreover you will need create a team, pay for that and the team won't be visible in table.

Untill last year it was let's say fair a bit, cause WRC2 was mainly for Teams. But now it should be closer to WRC 3 or a bit balanced at least.

I am still thinking it is a mistake, but let's wait. Chris Ingram seems to be entered to Monte as Chris Ingram... so? If you are right, he will not be able to get points :) For guys like him, Kajetanowicz, Lindholm etc, promotion from WRC 3 to WRC 2 would mean over 400% increase in registration cost...

[Mirek]

It's not ideal but everyone else is still there though. Plans/schedules will have already been mapped out as has been seen by the testing ALL last week and continuing into this week. Adamo leaving hasn't left the team in the lurch, there's a lot of capable people who can keep the testing and development etc going.

IMHO a trully good manager creates his team in way that it's able to work as usual without him being present.

[WRCStan]

Personally, I think 6.4.3 is a mistake and will be updated soon.

[AndyRAC]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/sulayem-two-and-a-half-manufacturers-in-wrc-is-not-enough/6931320/

[AnttiL]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/sulayem-two-and-a-half-manufacturers-in-wrc-is-not-enough/6931320/

So, let’s change over to Rally3 cars then? :D

[PLuto]

So they merged both championship and now forced majority of guys to create "team" and pay 13k to be a WRC2 driver's champion (Team 10k + 3k for Open). Moreover you will need create a team, pay for that and the team won't be visible in table.

Untill last year it was let's say fair a bit, cause WRC2 was mainly for Teams. But now it should be closer to WRC 3 or a bit balanced at least.

I am still thinking it is a mistake, but let's wait. Chris Ingram seems to be entered to Monte as Chris Ingram... so? If you are right, he will not be able to get points :) For guys like him, Kajetanowicz, Lindholm etc, promotion from WRC 3 to WRC 2 would mean over 400% increase in registration cost...

It is not mistake...

[AnttiL]

So they merged both championship and now forced majority of guys to create "team" and pay 13k to be a WRC2 driver's champion (Team 10k + 3k for Open). Moreover you will need create a team, pay for that and the team won't be visible in table.

Untill last year it was let's say fair a bit, cause WRC2 was mainly for Teams. But now it should be closer to WRC 3 or a bit balanced at least.

I am still thinking it is a mistake, but let's wait. Chris Ingram seems to be entered to Monte as Chris Ingram... so? If you are right, he will not be able to get points :) For guys like him, Kajetanowicz, Lindholm etc, promotion from WRC 3 to WRC 2 would mean over 400% increase in registration cost...

You still understand it wrong. If Toksport pays the 10 000 entry fee, they can use that to run many drivers. It's not up to the drivers to pay that entry fee unless there's absolutely no other vacancies in other teams. And even in that case you could ask a friend to join you in your "team" to split that expense.

It's also an attraction for teams. "Rent a Rally2 car from us, we are one of the few teams in WRC2 this season".

I think Chris Ingram is driving for Toksport this year and the Montre entry list had lots of errors.

Difficult to say what a guy like Kajetanowicz would do. He probably has been in his private team for a long time, but will he enter that now?

It's another question how much motivation there is for guys who fought for WRC3 title but were typically P3-P6 in RC2, since now they will be against the WRC2 top guys. Maybe they are now more interested in ERC instead?

Finally, I might be wrong but this is how I have interpreted the rules.

[mknight]

So, let’s change over to Rally3 cars then? :D

Sounds like he would want to drop Rally1 and change to Rally2 (+). That didn't seem popular with manus either. It like is particularly hard for new manus to enter against those with massive R5 experience and be competetive.

IMO there's only one way to go for the top class. Full electric 3 years from now.

Anyway interesting that he starts off on the job by calling MSport openly for what they are.

[ouvreur]

Anyway interesting that he starts off on the job by calling MSport openly for what they are.
You really don't like M-Sport, do you? :laugh:

[mknight]

You really don't like M-Sport, do you? :laugh:

Why do you think that? MSport is a great private business with some great results and very good at developing new drivers
(Fourmaux, Evans, Tanak etc, even though it not always works out (Camilli)).

MSport is not a (manu) team doing everything for win (as quoted by Suninen). The only thing I don't like about them is when their PR pretends something else.

[Tom K]

You still understand it wrong. If Toksport pays the 10 000 entry fee, they can use that to run many drivers. It's not up to the drivers to pay that entry fee unless there's absolutely no other vacancies in other teams. And even in that case you could ask a friend to join you in your "team" to split that expense.

It's also an attraction for teams. "Rent a Rally2 car from us, we are one of the few teams in WRC2 this season".

I think Chris Ingram is driving for Toksport this year and the Montre entry list had lots of errors.

Difficult to say what a guy like Kajetanowicz would do. He probably has been in his private team for a long time, but will he enter that now?

It's another question how much motivation there is for guys who fought for WRC3 title but were typically P3-P6 in RC2, since now they will be against the WRC2 top guys. Maybe they are now more interested in ERC instead?

Finally, I might be wrong but this is how I have interpreted the rules.

Antti, with all due respect...

I know what are or were rules in WRC 2 when it was mainly for Teams. They merged championships where we had 6-10 cars (WRC 2) and 15-23 cars (WRC 3) so I do not know why you look at rules only through the prism of the strongest team.

1) the rules does not clarify if Toksport can enter more than 2 cars per event: "must enter and start with two (2) cars". Maybe they could rotate, Mikkelsen + Ingram in Monte, Mikkelsen + Gryazin in Sweden etc, but I do not see it possible...

2) Toksport will pay this 10k euro and can split it between drivers. But the rule says now: "In order to score points in the WRC2 Championship for
Teams supported by a Manufacturer or independent, Drivers,
Co-Drivers, Junior, Master and Teams must register with the
FIA before the closing date of entries of the first rally entered.
Registration in the WRC2 Championships is set at €100,000
for teams with the Manufacturer name in the title or €10,000
for an independent team. Any manufacturer registered as per
Art. 5.2 does not need to pay the individual WRC2 Championship fee for Manufacturers. Registration for the WRC2 Open
Championship, set at €3,000, must be made in the name
of a driver holding a current and valid competitor’s licence
Co-drivers are not required to register"

So if you are right, Toksport will pay entry fee for Teams, but still Mikkelsen, Bulacia, Ingram or any other need to pay 3k euro for WRC 2 Open. If you think they don't need to pay 3k euro, tell me for who these 3k euro are.

3) "And even in that case you could ask a friend to join you in your "team" to split that expense." - I will treat it like o joke, cause we are talking about World Rally Championship, not amateur rally where you can ask your friend "let's take one bigger lorry, transport will be cheaper per car".
How would they do that? They are rivals and will make one team? "Friendzone Rally Team":) If they have big sponsors, both of them would like to put it into name of the team.

It could work only in pairing like Gryazin - Brazzoli. One was top, and second was gentleman driver...

4) I do not think guys from P3-P6 in RC2 should be send to ERC... Ingram (1x champion) and Kajetanowicz (3x) for sure will be interested in going to ERC again... And being P3-P6 in RC2 it's not that bad.

Let me clarify - I do not know if it is mistake or not (like Pluto said) and you are right. But if you are, please don't tell me it's OK, because Toksport can this or that...

[WRCStan]

If Toksport pays the 10 000 entry fee, they can use that to run many drivers.

6.2.2 Teams must enter 2 cars to score points. Or, 6.2.3 If they don't want teams points (or with the co/drivers don't want points) they can enter 1 car.

This doesn't allow a team to enter 3+ cars??? With Mikkelsen and Gryazin the Toksport team in Monte, Ingram must have entered himself, no (regardless whose car it is)?

[WRCStan]

Thinking about this for past while, I'm clear now there is no mistake in the rule book, this mess is probably designed to sway privateers to WRC3 or ERC.

Every driver pays the registration fees now, that's the change to last year. The 'Open' does not mean it's an 'open' championship at all, that just a name that separates those who are not juniors and masters. But,

Rule 6.4.3 says Open and Junior Drivers won't score championship points unless they were entered by a Team. So presumably you can enter without being in a team if you don't care about the championship, I presume Chris Ingram knows this (see my previous post). Rule 6.4.4 says Masters can enter without being in a team and score in their championship. Fantastic example of equality and consistency.

I put this to you to correct. If I am right, also add in the WRC3 Junior farce, I sincerely wish Becs, Julian, etc and the social media teams the best for next year. Colossal f*ck up.

[wyler]

6.2.2 Teams must enter 2 cars to score points. Or, 6.2.3 If they don't want teams points (or with the co/drivers don't want points) they can enter 1 car.

This doesn't allow a team to enter 3+ cars??? With Mikkelsen and Gryazin the Toksport team in Monte, Ingram must have entered himself, no (regardless whose car it is)?

Maybe i'm wrong, but i think a team must enter 2 car to score points, but can also enter more than 2, provided that is paying the driver entry fee.

[WRCStan]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i think a team must enter 2 car to score points, but can also enter more than 2, provided that is paying the driver entry fee.

Maybe, but this goes against these clearly worded rules which would have to be changed:

2219

Maybe Chris Ingram, as our example, is entered in his own team which he has no choice but to sign up for. But he's not driving for teams points in Monte as suggested by https://acm.mc/en/edition-en/rallye-monte-carlo-en/monte-carlo-2022-closure-of-registrations/ Perhaps because he doesn't have a team mate?

I hope there's an obvious moment coming where I get to look stupid. I also apologise to the poster who said it looks a mess and I asked what was so hard to understand.

[Tom K]

Let's make some order in it. What made me confused and angry is:

1) During the last 2-3 years, WRC 2 was mainly for teams. FIA and Promoter wanted to encourage manus, but failed to some extent. We had Hyundai and M-Sport (both didn't need to pay 100k) and a lot of Toksports, PhSports etc. Of course, driver/co-drivers standings were much more prestige than Toksport winning with Movisport :)

Toksport, Movisport, Sainteloc etc decided to enter and collaborate with two or more drivers. If they wanted drivers to pay partly this 10k fee was up to them. There wasn't any fee from FIA for drivers/co-drivers. But the main rule was, that even if you wanted to be able to score only for drivers/co-drivers, you had to be entered by registered team.

So two ways were created: Being entered by team who is willing to be in teams' table or being able to score driver/co-drivers points and give a shit on teams' table. Second way was the option taken by Ostberg and Linamae. Both had to pay 10k euro for one car.

2) In WRC 3 (where the number of crews was significantly bigger than in WRC 2) you could enter only as a name of driver/co driver

3) The most important: After merging WRC 2 and WRC 3:
a) Saintelocs, Toksports, PHSports etc still pay 10k, but they are in the teams' table and can ask drivers to participate in that cost. Drivers need to pay additional 3k euro for Open (WRCStan - open is like WRC 2 for everybody. Junior or Master can win WRC 2 Open)
b) Those who give a shit for teams' table can still pay 10k euro. Plus additional 3k euro for Open.
c) Those who were paying 3k euro last year in WRC 3, need to pay 10k euro (for nothing unless they find a friend to make a team :) ) and 3k euro for Open.

As I said. Last year everybody had a choice. WRC 2 or WRC 3. Now we have only one category for Rally2 cars, so forcing privateers to pay 13k euro (10k for nothing) is a bit unfair. And if final regulations really say this, it's outrageous in my opinion.

Long story short. Instead of forcing guys from my point c) to do what guys from point b) has done in 2021, they should do other way. So: If you collaborate with big team like Toksport, team will pay 10k, driver will pay 3k (I am sure FIA add this 3k for Open just to avoid Toksport, Sainteloc etc to split cost between X drivers). If you are on your own but want to register team: for example Adapta from Mads Ostberg, then you also pay 10k + 3k. But if you want to be Mads Ostberg and just score point in drivers/co-drivers then you should be able to pay only 3k euro for Open.

[WRCStan]

WRCStan - open is like WRC 2 for everybody. Junior or Master can win WRC 2 Open

I agree it includes the other two, I wasn't clear. But only if they were entered by a team, else they won't score Open Championship points. That's not an Open Championship in my view. It appears you can pay €3000 and enter WRC2 without a team and not classify in the WRC2 drivers championships, but why the hell are you when you can also enter as a non-priority driver. That's essentially the championship you are getting. Nada! Zip! Except the Masters Cup which will score points without being entered by a team.


if you want to be Mads Ostberg and just score point in drivers/co-drivers then you should be able to pay only 3k euro for Open.

I wholeheartedly agree.

We're all applying common sense which the FIA is void of. What the rules say goes, they are either correct or need fixing.

[dimviii]

Solberg and Edmondson make partnership permanent

After successful run to fifth place on Monza Rally, Solberg and co-driver stick together for 2022 WRC season


https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/solberg-and-edmondson-make-partnership-permanent/

[cmac]

Great to see that Loeb deal is finally public.As i said on nov 1 in this thread the deal was already done. I believe they will decide after Monte where he will next drive the puma. Malcolm would like the full season but Loeb is not keen.

Mikkelson will be watching how competitive the car is before paying for a drive.If the puma is winning potential he will definately be in the car for a few rallies.

Great seat for Elliot Edmondson with oliver. I think he has potential to be top codriver and they can gather experience together before hopefully challenging for titles in the future.

[Mirek]

Mikkelson will be watching how competitive the car is before paying for a drive.If the puma is winning potential he will definately be in the car for a few rallies.

It's Mikkelsen.

[er88]

Great to see that Loeb deal is finally public.As i said on nov 1 in this thread the deal was already done. I believe they will decide after Monte where he will next drive the puma. Malcolm would like the full season but Loeb is not keen.

Mikkelson will be watching how competitive the car is before paying for a drive.If the puma is winning potential he will definately be in the car for a few rallies.

Great seat for Elliot Edmondson with oliver. I think he has potential to be top codriver and they can gather experience together before hopefully challenging for titles in the future.4-6events for Loeb

[AnttiL]

So if you are right, Toksport will pay entry fee for Teams, but still Mikkelsen, Bulacia, Ingram or any other need to pay 3k euro for WRC 2 Open. If you think they don't need to pay 3k euro, tell me for who these 3k euro are.


Let me clarify - I do not know if it is mistake or not (like Pluto said) and you are right. But if you are, please don't tell me it's OK, because Toksport can this or that...

Sorry for the late reply, but I was all along with the impression that drivers need to pay the 3000 although teams pay their 10 000. I just didn't explicitly express that in my message.

And I was using Skoda and Toksport merely as an example (since they are corresponding manufacturer and team, could have used also Citroen and PH Sport).

I know that it seems unfair to the guys who were driving in WRC3 last year.

[AnttiL]

1) During the last 2-3 years, WRC 2 was mainly for teams. FIA and Promoter wanted to encourage manus, but failed to some extent. We had Hyundai and M-Sport (both didn't need to pay 100k) and a lot of Toksports, PhSports etc. Of course, driver/co-drivers standings were much more prestige than Toksport winning with Movisport :)

To clarify this, until 2018 WRC2 was just open for private drivers. In 2019 we had WRC2 Pro which was only for drivers entered by manufacturers. I think Skoda was not happy with having to pay the big WRC2 Pro entry fee in , while Hyundai, M-Sport and Citroen got it as a bonus for doing the WRC1 championship. From 2020 to 2021 we had the latest system where WRC2Pro (now renamed WRC2) allowed also private teams (the Toksports, Ph SPorts etc).

The years 2019-2021 have also had much confusion with two series with the same class of cars and sometimes lower class cars finishing higher or higher class car getting a "podium" after being very slow. The positive thing is that we shouldn't have this anymore in 2022. But at the same time the series is now less open to privateers. To me it feels like they want to encourage drivers who are planning to do whole seasons instead of one-off wins creating confusion in the points table. Whether it's better for us spectators or not, I'm not sure. It's more interesting to follow whole-season-competition, but one-offs are also refreshing...And of course someone like Luky can still enter with non-prio and be the fastest RC2 car but not get any WRC2 points...

Could also be that FIA was disappointed in Östberg et al using the loophole of not registering for teams championship and losing a lot of 10 000 entry fees last year...It seems only five teams paid the teams entry fee last year (and two of them got it for free for being in WRC1)

[AnttiL]

Maybe i'm wrong, but i think a team must enter 2 car to score points, but can also enter more than 2, provided that is paying the driver entry fee.

In Portugal 2021 M-Sport had Suninen, Kristensson and Prokop. So that should prove that a team can enter more than two cars. Two per rally is just the minimum for scoring team points.

I believe Ingram is entered by Toksport in Monte, eligible for WRC2 drivers points, but not for WRC2 team points.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-rally-director-matton-leaves-position/

Matton quits at FIA

[TypeR]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-rally-director-matton-leaves-position/

Matton quits at FIA
Oh no...


DirtFish understands Matton is one of the candidates under consideration to succeed Andrea Adamo as team principal of Hyundai Motorsport, but he has also run his own MY Racing team.

[cali]

Oh no...Balls...

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[ouvreur]

That's Hyundai out of the WRC in a year, then...

[mknight]

Mikkelsen will be watching how competitive the car is before paying for a drive.If the puma is winning potential he will definately be in the car for a few rallies.


That is my impression from his interviews as well.

Since MSport wants him to pay, he doesn't want to end like Suninen this year, who spend tons of money on basically pointless starts. In the meantime he gets salary at Skoda/Toksport.

I think others may think around similar lines (Loubet, Gryazin).

[er88]

Matton to Hyundai would be an absolute disaster for the WRC. Unless Hyundai want to put the wheels in motion for having to pull out a year or so down the line....

[doubled1978]

That is my impression from his interviews as well.

Since MSport wants him to pay, he doesn't want to end like Suninen this year, who spend tons of money on basically pointless starts. In the meantime he gets salary at Skoda/Toksport.

I think others may think around similar lines (Loubet, Gryazin).


Who can blame them, after the last couple of years. If you’re going to spend a bunch of money to rent a Rally1 car then you’d at least want some evidence it’s competitive, and with Toyota & Hyundai initially at least not offering any possibility, I would wait until after Sweden before I made any decision if it was me.

[cali]

Yes, maybe that's what Wuorela was all about?

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[AnttiL]

I think others may think around similar lines (Loubet, Gryazin).

M-Sport could well be the only team who rents Rally1, it could be enough for someone like Gryazin or Loubet, whether the car is competitive or not.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The problem for Mikkelsen is that if he does eventually decide to rent a Puma later in the season, he won't have any experience with it and generating/deploying the hybrid power.

If the car is competitive, the driver might not be...

[seb_sh]

Long story short. Instead of forcing guys from my point c) to do what guys from point b) has done in 2021, they should do other way. So: If you collaborate with big team like Toksport, team will pay 10k, driver will pay 3k (I am sure FIA add this 3k for Open just to avoid Toksport, Sainteloc etc to split cost between X drivers). If you are on your own but want to register team: for example Adapta from Mads Ostberg, then you also pay 10k + 3k. But if you want to be Mads Ostberg and just score point in drivers/co-drivers then you should be able to pay only 3k euro for Open.

Indeed that would make most sense, there are a lot of Rally2 drivers who now either need to put up a bunch of money for an entry or switch to Rally3. Otherwise the championship structure actually makes sense and also the fastest Rally2 car will win instead of the weird WRC2/3 split we had. Sure you can then make subdivisions for juniors/seniors and thats fine, rookie cups are a thing in many series and they work fine.

I still see another big problem and that is how events are selected. As I understand you compete in 7 and the best 6 count. With 13 rounds on the calendar that means it could be an indirect title fight. To me that's quite bad and uninteresting. It would be better to have a limited selection, and especially the last 3-4 rounds for WRC2 or 3 should be fixed and mandatory so we have a proper on-road fight. Also it would be good to split rallies between WRC2 and WRC3 as possible to allow them to get some nice coverage on TV and so on.

[AnttiL]

I still see another big problem and that is how events are selected. As I understand you compete in 7 and the best 6 count. With 13 rounds on the calendar that means it could be an indirect title fight. To me that's quite bad and uninteresting. It would be better to have a limited selection, and especially the last 3-4 rounds for WRC2 or 3 should be fixed and mandatory so we have a proper on-road fight. Also it would be good to split rallies between WRC2 and WRC3 as possible to allow them to get some nice coverage on TV and so on.

I once had also the idea that each rally would have either WRC2 or JWRC, to get television coverage for both. But there's the problem that it's not equal for drivers around the world to miss their home event, and not good for the events to get less entries.

[rallyfiend]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/fia-rally-director-matton-leaves-position/

Matton quits at FIA

Anyone who thinks he 'quit' is naïve at best.

Allegedly he was the first of many to be shown the door by the new regime.

Seems they REALLY did not like him....

[Rally Hokkaido]

Anyone who thinks he 'quit' is naïve at best.

Allegedly he was the first of many to be shown the door by the new regime.

Seems they REALLY did not like him....

Same thing happened when Jean Todt came to power. Remember the Gabrielle Cadringher story?

[rallyfiend]

He and Adamo have chosen to 'explore new opportunities'!

[AndyRAC]

Anyone who thinks he 'quit' is naïve at best.

Allegedly he was the first of many to be shown the door by the new regime.

Seems they REALLY did not like him....

Going by the interview with Ben Sulayem, he was being diplomatic towards Matton; I get the feeling he feels the new regs are a disaster for the sport, and as a result Matton had to go.

[macebig]

Anyone with common sense would say that doubling down on the most expensive cars in WRC history is a disaster... We can only hope Ben Sulayem has seen it and is ready to bring the sport back to its roots.

[seb_sh]

Such exits are common when top management changes at organizations. It's usual that each boss will bring his own team, his own people. Let's see who comes, Matton wasn't a disaster but wasn't great either.

[mknight]

M-Sport could well be the only team who rents Rally1, it could be enough for someone like Gryazin or Loubet, whether the car is competitive or not.

See Lappi this year vs Suninen. Better to run a top Rally2 and win something vs competition than drivig ad last Rally1 and compete only with your teammate. If the car is not competetive, I doubt Gryazin will be interested. Not after Acropolis experience.
Let's hope it is competetive.



The problem for Mikkelsen is that if he does eventually decide to rent a Puma later in the season, he won't have any experience with it and generating/deploying the hybrid power.

If the car is competitive, the driver might not be...

Actually I think the differences (between drivers) will be lower later than at the start.

During first rallies nobody has much experience on what is faster so someone who is fast learning (or lucky) can get a big advantage.
After a few rounds every top driver (and team) would have spent quite some time watching driving styles of the other drivers/teams and copying what works.
Just like with new stages and onboards. On new stages the differences are normally much bigger

[WRCStan]

The official site motorsport.hyundai.com is still down after one month or more. Was paying the hosting one of Adamo's jobs? Doesn't anybody else find this odd?

[wyler]

In Portugal 2021 M-Sport had Suninen, Kristensson and Prokop. So that should prove that a team can enter more than two cars. Two per rally is just the minimum for scoring team points.

I believe Ingram is entered by Toksport in Monte, eligible for WRC2 drivers points, but not for WRC2 team points.

yes. This. And responding others, i didn't saw rules stating "only" or "maximum". just 2 cars to score point.

[WRCStan]

yes. This. And responding others, i didn't saw rules stating "only" or "maximum". just 2 cars to score point.

6.2.2 In order to score Team points any team registered in WRC2 must enter and start with two (2) cars in a maximum of 7 rallies. Both cars will be taken into account for the points.

M-Sport entered and started Portugal with three cars and scored team points. In a court with an independent judge it'd be found against the rules. Doesn't matter who was nominated, or what common sense or reason we can apply. The bigger point is regional and world regs are full of errors and need redoing. Rally department should be ashamed of themselves. How about now we've come to consensus on WRC2 registration, try to work out what the rally entry fees are from the table in Appendix VI. Or whether teams in WRC3 have to pay €10,000 or not. I think I'm boring people though.

The good news though is at least we've found the loophole. The Friendzone Rally Team may enter 50+ drivers. Fees go down with every sign up! Maybe Mads or George can sell slots in their teams for a bit of extra income.

[wyler]

6.2.2 In order to score Team points any team registered in WRC2 must enter and start with two (2) cars in a maximum of 7 rallies. Both cars will be taken into account for the points.



Still can't find where is written they cannot enter more.

[WRCStan]

Still can't find where is written they cannot enter more.


And score team points? Keep reading 6.2.2.
And not score team points? It doesn't say.

Also doesn't say a driver must enter as part of a team, apparently it's not required for the Masters Cup. Maybe the user working with Freddy Loix will tell us what team he is with?

[TypeR]

So interesting posts.. like reading CAS documents..

[bandit12]

Noooo. I can not go to sleep. Somebody is wrong on internet.

[wyler]

And score team points? Keep reading 6.2.2.
And not score team points? It doesn't say.



I'm reading. there's a minimum: 2. No max written. So anything can be. let's wait, time will tell!

[AnttiL]

6.2.2 In order to score Team points any team registered in WRC2 must enter and start with two (2) cars in a maximum of 7 rallies. Both cars will be taken into account for the points.

M-Sport entered and started Portugal with three cars and scored team points. In a court with an independent judge it'd be found against the rules.

A closer look at the actual entry list shows that Suninen and Kristensson were nominated for team points, Prokop for drivers only

[wyler]

A closer look at the actual entry list shows that Suninen and Kristensson were nominated for team points, Prokop for drivers only

That's the point! a driver can drive in a team not scoring team point, so not building his own team. so potentially anyone can pay 3k and drive for an entered team as 3rd+ driver (as toksport made past years mixing wrc2 and wrc3. i think it's the same, just without divisions.)
anyway time will tell, let's move on! : )

[WRCStan]

A closer look at the actual entry list shows that Suninen and Kristensson were nominated for team points, Prokop for drivers only

Nominated isn't entered. Teams must enter two (2) cars. Both...

This is why it comes full circle to the rest of the WRC2 entry rules. That's my last point on this too, the bigger point has been made.


Noooo. I can not go to sleep. Somebody is wrong on internet.

Only the FIA. A) Their rules suck, that's my opinion but I accept them despite. WRC2 and WRC2Pro is nothing on the potential confusions the new WRC2 and WRC3 have in store. B) Their articulation of the rules they make suck. This is not good enough from an international authority. I'm first to say don't attack the doers, but we can't legally vote the FIA out and do better ourselves.

If you think we are arguing here then you are mistaken. I'll gladly join anybody in a new thread for wonks if there's further discussion but I make no apologies for caring and finding this interesting.

[PLuto]

For this year it is different. Each team (if they are registered) can nominate two drivers for WRC2 Teams Championship. Everybody, who wants to score points in WRC2 for driver (WRC2 Open) must make also individual registration.

[wyler]

For this year it is different. Each team (if they are registered) can nominate two drivers for WRC2 Teams Championship. Everybody, who wants to score points in WRC2 for driver (WRC2 Open) must make also individual registration.

Agreed! Point is: must they enter also as a personal team (spending 3k +10k) or can they join a registered team as 3rd+ driver (spending 3k as individual entry)?

[bandit12]

Agreed! Point is: must they enter also as a personal team (spending 3k +10k) or can they join a registered team as 3rd+ driver (spending 3k as individual entry)?

Where do you read that out now?

[wyler]

Where do you read that out now?

Earlier here from page 30 on -see posts like #307 i.e.-. I'm just rounding up the countless previous post of the last few days. go back a couple of pages, you see all these debates revolves around a) is a team limited to entering only 2 car? and so b) does a driver (say one doing wrc3 last year) have to enter his own team?

We kinda sorted out some, still those questions hang around...

[bandit12]

Thisnis really mindblowing

[WRCStan]

I'm not sure it's been said, but the World Rally Car won't have restrictions applied for 2022 as was widely believed, other than drivers who've scored manufacturers points in past 5 years can't drive them. This immediately rules Mikkelsen, Suninen, Paddon, Ostberg etc out, but maybe there is somebody out there willing to race for a win against the Rally1s if they don't perform and if they can get hold of a WRC. I'm not sure the owners club will be racing.

Wider question, who's likely to be seen in a WRC in 2022?

[AnttiL]

I'm not sure it's been said, but the World Rally Car won't have restrictions applied for 2022 as was widely believed, other than drivers who've scored manufacturers points in past 5 years can't drive them. This immediately rules Mikkelsen, Suninen, Paddon, Ostberg etc out, but maybe there is somebody out there willing to race for a win against the Rally1s if they don't perform and if they can get hold of a WRC. I'm not sure the owners club will be racing.

Wider question, who's likely to be seen in a WRC in 2022?

I thought there would be a restrictor…

[jonkka]

The official site motorsport.hyundai.com is still down after one month or more. Was paying the hosting one of Adamo's jobs? Doesn't anybody else find this odd?

Yes, very odd indeed. I don't see any logical explanation for the current situation, something's wrong.

[Kenneth]

I still don't really understand how these WRC2 entries work.

My understanding is that:

When team wants to compete in WRC2 Teams, they have to pay 10K fee. They have to have 2 drivers, but they don't have to pay anything, IF they wouldn't compete in driver's championship (WRC2 Open) . But they still can compete in driver's championship, if they pay 3K fee.

But if driver wants to compete in WRC2 Open (so driver's championship), they only need to pay 3K and don't have to compete for team.

Is that right?

[AnttiL]

I still don't really understand how these WRC2 entries work.

My understanding is that:

When team wants to compete in WRC2 Teams, they have to pay 10K fee. They have to have 2 drivers, but they don't have to pay anything, IF they wouldn't compete in driver's championship (WRC2 Open) . But they still can compete in driver's championship, if they pay 3K fee.

But if driver wants to compete in WRC2 Open (so driver's championship), they only need to pay 3K and don't have to compete for team.

Is that right?

I don’t understand it like this…

[WRCStan]

I still don't really understand how these WRC2 entries work.

My understanding is that:

When team wants to compete in WRC2 Teams, they have to pay 10K fee. They have to have 2 drivers, but they don't have to pay anything, IF they wouldn't compete in driver's championship (WRC2 Open) . But they still can compete in driver's championship, if they pay 3K fee.

But if driver wants to compete in WRC2 Open (so driver's championship), they only need to pay 3K and don't have to compete for team.

Is that right?

The line between the rules and what goes is blurred, and also whether these rules are what was agreed. I don't believe the season will start without at least one rule being corrected. Probably best to email the rally department if you're thinking of running.

The rules say drivers don't have to compete in the team's championship, but a registered team has to enter the driver if the driver wants to score in the open championship. Driver's don't appear to have to be registered in the open Championship to score for the teams, but all drivers do have to pay €3000 registration fees (table, p102). Drivers don't have to be entered by a team to score in the WRC2 Masters Cup but these drivers do have to be registered in the WRC2 Open Championship in which they won't score unless they were entered by a team. The Masters Cup is an additional €3000 registration.

So registration for a driver who just wants to drive alone in the open championship is €3000 plus €10,000 for their own team to enter themselves in. A loophole-type flaw here has been discussed over several recent pages, which I believe is against the rules but was allowed last year.

Hopefully bandit12 will explain it clearer, or banish us to a new thread.

[dimviii]

Opens&Tightens
@OpensTightens

TEST DAY WITH TOYOTA GAZOO RACING!

In Spain Flag of Spain #RicardoCordero and #MarcoHernández were testing the #ToyotaYarisWRC in the company of #JariMattiLatvala, director of the #WRC champion team who was surprised by his level!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FHvFOLwWUAM54I_?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Andre Oliveira]

Dia de los inocentes (like April fool).

[dimviii]

M-Sport Ford’s Gus Greensmith is convinced the World Rally Championship’s Rally1 hybrid machines will prove to be “quite a lot faster” than the previous generation of cars.

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/greensmith-new-2022-rally1-wrc-cars-will-be-faster-than-predecessors/7024849/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=RSS-WRC&utm_term=News&utm_content=uk

[dimviii]

Østberg’s co-driver Eriksen to partner WRC2 rival Mikkelsen in 2022

Long-time gravel crew member Patrik Barth will navigate for Østberg next year
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ostbergs-co-driver-eriksen-to-partner-wrc2-rival-mikkelsen-in-2022/

[Rallyper]

Østberg’s co-driver Eriksen to partner WRC2 rival Mikkelsen in 2022

Long-time gravel crew member Patrik Barth will navigate for Østberg next year
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/ostbergs-co-driver-eriksen-to-partner-wrc2-rival-mikkelsen-in-2022/

I didn´t see that coming...

[AnttiL]

2021 WRC2 driver and co-driver champions now in the same car :D

[rallyfiend]

I didn´t see that coming...

I guess it's only logical given that Andres has a drive and Mads doesn't.

Allegedly Citroen are done with him....

[mknight]

I guess it's only logical given that Andres has a drive and Mads doesn't.

Allegedly Citroen are done with him....

Haven't seen this but it is entirely possible.

Biggest reason: Rossel won WRC3 and is going to WRC2 and is French + Camilli doing great in Spain

On top of that his post Estonia/pre Acropolis comments. Historically PSA manus don't like that sort of thing at all.

If true it's a bit surprising Gryazin isn't driving for Citroen then though.

[Tom K]

So first start of the year Mikkelsen will do with... Floene :) In Dakar.

[Sulland]

So first start of the year Mikkelsen will do with... Floene :) In Dakar.

WOW
https://lookcharms.com/a-mikkelsen-last-minute-guest-of-dakar-2022/

[Danny0405]

Haven't seen this but it is entirely possible.

Biggest reason: Rossel won WRC3 and is going to WRC2 and is French + Camilli doing great in Spain

On top of that his post Estonia/pre Acropolis comments. Historically PSA manus don't like that sort of thing at all.

If true it's a bit surprising Gryazin isn't driving for Citroen then though.

It doesn’t seem like Ostberg will not be with Citroen next year.
Personnally, I think the difference is more that Mikkelsen is not totally outside of the Rally1 game (And is paid by Skoda probably and maybe has some backing from Red Bull still) whereas, for Ostberg, it is over for Rally1.

[Sulland]

Maybe more All Live work for Mads, and a few favorite rallies here and there. Maybe developmemt consultant for Proton and Hyundai for their RC2 cars.

[Eli]

https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/wrc-investigating-possible-return-to-argentina-in-2023/7076702/

The World Rally Championship could return to Argentina next year after new FIA president Mohammed Ben Sulayem said talks to bring the championship back to South America are underway.
Rally Argentina has been absent from the WRC schedule since 2019, with the proposed 2020 event cancelled due to the COVID-19 health crisis.

As the world continues to grapple with the pandemic, the WRC has tended to steer away from flyaway events. South America wasn't represented on a 2021 schedule that only featured one round outside of Europe, Kenya's Safari Rally.

This year the WRC has revealed a 13-round calendar featuring long haul events in New Zealand and Japan, but again South America is absent from the schedule. One round in August is yet to be confirmed, although it is widely believed to be filled by Rally Northern Ireland.

Rally Argentina boasts a storied history, having regularly featured on the WRC calendar since 1980, with only the 1995 and 2010 editions absent from the world championship.

Speaking at the Dakar Rally, former Rally Argentina competitor Sulayem revealed that the FIA is negotiating with promoters in Argentina and a 2023 return of the tough gravel event is not out of the question.

"Yes, we are negotiating," said the new FIA president when asked if Argentina could return to the WRC calendar in 2023.

"First of all, I drove in Argentina a few times so I have good memories there, in terms of accepting the motorsport, and also the results that I have, so it's always good memories.

"Argentina is a big country. Argentina has a culture of motorsport and rallying in particular, more than that we have to have a more dialogue with the promoter, with the ASN, [which] is very important.

"We have to have stability, sustainability of the events. I'm studying the contracts, and when it comes to how many years we are having with the contracts, with the promoters.

"But if you bring the WRC to Argentina, it's not new. It has been there. So we just have to work something that has to come from itself, from the government, and the FIA and the promoter.

"So we'll see. Water doesn't go uphill, it goes downhill, so it has to come from the government. I believe the government has big history and involvement also with rallying and specifically rallying."

The WRC will begin its new Rally1 hybrid era later this month when the 2022 season begins at the famous Monte Carlo Rally from 20-23 January.

[AnttiL]

https://www.rallit.fi/rallin-mm-sarjan-avaustilaisuutta-voi-seurata-kotisohvalta/

The WRC 2022 season launch is hosted by Red Bull on 15th January. Also streamed from Red Bull TV.

https://www.redbull.com/ng-en/events/fia-world-rally-championship-season-launch

[Fast Eddie WRC]

I wonder if there could be a clash between Red Bull as WRC Promoter and 'Team Solberg' being sponsored by Monster Energy ? If Oliver was to start winning events with Monster plastered on his car it surely wouldn't please RB...

[Franky]

Eddie, not a problem. Hyundai has got Shell in their name and so on, yet no conflict with Wolf Lubricants who have a deal with the promoter.

It's not Red Bull Rally Championship.

[WRCStan]

It's not been a problem yet, but as it has become the Pirelli World Rally Championship who knows what's next.

[rallyfiend]

I wonder if there could be a clash between Red Bull as WRC Promoter and 'Team Solberg' being sponsored by Monster Energy ? If Oliver was to start winning events with Monster plastered on his car it surely wouldn't please RB...

It hasn't stopped WRC Promoter using Oliver for almost every single TV programme as being the 'next great hope' so far... They barely leave him alone. Given his sometimes shambolic season in 2021, it almost been too much...

Besides, Red Bull have a long history of not caring about rival sponsorship at 'their' events. Many X-Fighters and other motorcross riders are often sponsored by other drinks.

Red Bull TV give big coverage to other sponsored drivers / riders in Dakar too

[AndyRAC]

As above, there are plenty of rival drinks companies who get good coverage on Red Bull TV; I don't think it's an issue.......

[EstWRC]

Ott Tanak is confident he will be able to “fight hard” for success in the 2022 World Rally Championship despite Hyundai’s late start in developing its new Rally1 machine.

The 2019 world champion endured a frustrating 2021 campaign claiming more stage wins than any of his rivals, but witnessed victories slip from his grasp due to reliability issues.

Tanak, who missed last year’s final round in Monza due to personal reasons, is eager to kick off the 2022 season which presents a fresh start, courtesy of the WRC’s embracing hybrid technology as part of new Rally1 regulations.

Although Hyundai was the last of the three marques to commit to the 2022 rules, Tanak has been impressed by the work undergone to create and develop the all-new i20, that is set to take on Toyota and M-Sport Ford, beginning at the Monte Carlo Rally on the 20-23 January.

The Korean brand was also the last team to unveil the final iteration of its car, which only began testing in late November. The operation is also without a permanent team principal following Andrea Adamo’s departure last month.

“Let’s say the last two years have not been too successful, so for sure it is a good chance for me to work with the guys and put a good strong car together,” Tanak, who finished fifth in the 2021 standings, told Motorsport.com.


“It is good to see at the moment, and even if we started a bit late and a being a bit behind in our development, that the people are still working hard. I’m sure we can fight hard this year.

“There is really no idea what is the gap [to the opposition] or what the situation is at the moment. It is really challenging for everyone.

“We have been focussing on our own job and as long as we are happy with what we have done, we should be proud. If we keep working and try to achieve our goals, and if we can do that, then I’m sure we are going to be strong.

“It [the car] is slowly getting there. The potential is there and it seems to be a good package, so we just need to learn and understand where the window is for this car and how it is working.”


Hyundai alongside rivals Toyota and M-Sport face a voyage into the unknown at Monte Carlo with reliability a huge concern for all the teams as their brand new hybrid cars tackle the challenging asphalt stages for the first time.

Not only will the use of hybrid power provide a challenge, but the cars will also run with significantly less aero and reduced suspension travel, and without a centre differential, courtesy of the new rules.

Such are the unknowns surrounding the cars, Tanak believes reliability will be more important than outright performance in Monte Carlo.

“To start the year reliability will be crucial,” he added.


“I guess in the beginning we just need some good mileage experience and score points, so for sure the reliability is more a priority than the performance, but let’s see.

“The guys are doing their best and hopefully it will work out.”

Tanak will be joined by teammates Thierry Neuville and new signing Oliver Solberg for a pre-event test in France next week ahead of the season opener.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/tanak-confident-hyundai-can-fight-hard-in-2022-wrc/7086786/

[ictus]

As above, there are plenty of rival drinks companies who get good coverage on Red Bull TV; I don't think it's an issue.......

I remember seeing this helmet cam footage directly on redbull.tv - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIrnJCRDj4s - as a separate full leanght feature

[AndyRAC]

Yeah, 'The Redcar Rocket'.....

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Season launch info...

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/2022-wrc-season-to-be-launched-next-week-in-salzburg/

https://www.wrc.com/en/news/2021/wrc/world-premiere-of-ground-breaking-new-era-wrc-in-austria/

[EstWRC]

Evans: Battery use "critical" on WRC stage times

The WRC will embrace hybrid technology for the first time this season as part of new sweeping Rally1 regulations set to make their debut at the Monte Carlo Rally later this month.

The introduction of hybrid power will present drivers with extra power boosts to be used on each stage, resulting in all-new cars being capable of producing 500 horsepower in short bursts.

The addition of a mandatory Compact Dynamics 100kW hybrid unit to each car has made the machines heavier than their predecessors, while the new Rally1 rules include a tougher safety cell, reduction in aero and suspension travel and the removal of the centre differential. A sequential gearshift has been introduced to replace paddle shift.

However, the extra 130bhp hybrid power is the biggest of the changes, requiring drivers to regenerate power through the stages under braking to receive power boosts that are initiated by using the throttle, and end once the foot comes off the pedal.

Drivers will only receive boosts during the stages if they can regenerate 30 kilojoules of energy under braking to create what is known as a "valid regen", while the amount of extra power available is determined by the FIA, the nature of the stage and its length.


Capped by the FIA, each driver will start every stage with the battery at 80% with the aim of ending the stage with a state of charge of 30%. The battery will return to around 80% through regeneration on the road section before the next stage.

Heading into Monte Carlo drivers and teams are still understanding the full potential of the system, but Toyota's Evans believes managing the hybrid system correctly could prove crucial for stage times at points during the season.

"I think hybrid is something very new that we are all still finding out about," Evans, the WRC runner-up for the last two seasons, told Motorsport.com.

"What we do know is the amount of deployment we have is controlled by the FIA, and of course if the deployment is at a high level, then that has quite an effect on the acceleration of the car.


"If you generate far less of those accelerations, then your stage time is massively hurt by that.

"The battery at its most powerful is worth over 100 horsepower. You only need a few of those accelerations from slow junctions where you don't have it, for it to have a massive effect.

"Of course it is critical element of driving, I think it is going to be probably more critical in some event than others.

"If you are racing in a slippery event then it is less crucial, but if you are on dry tarmac you can make full use of that

While testing has increased in recent months, Evans says he is still not where "he wants to be" in terms of being comfortable in the new GR Yaris that is significantly different to last year.

"Everything feels very very new and very very different to before. Okay it is still a four wheel drive rally car, but there is still a lot things that are new," he added.

"The whole way the car is working is completely different, and that is even before you consider the hybrid, to be honest. There is a lot of new things and a lot of new sensations let's say on the car and that is something you have to get used to.

"I would say [testing has been] okay. Like always with new cars it is never completely straight forward.


"You never seem to have quite enough time to get through what you need to get through. It is really hard to judge because you have no gauge of where you are.

"Personally I still feel I'm not where I want to be yet, but I'm sure there will be many others in the same position.

"I would consider myself a fussy driver in terms of set up and when things are so new. I appreciate it is going to take some time. I still feel there is some work to do to reach the maximum levels of confidence."

All teams will conduct a pre-event test in France next week ahead of the Monte Carlo Rally from 20-23 January.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/evans-battery-use-critical-on-wrc-stage-times/7112459/

[Rallyper]

Is it mandatory using the batterypack on stages? And using too much power will be punished in some way by FIA?
Am I correct, or not?

[AnttiL]

Is it mandatory using the batterypack on stages? And using too much power will be punished in some way by FIA?
Am I correct, or not?

You can turn the hybrid system off. I think the unit just stops working at 30% charge.

Not using the electric motor on designated electric only zones will result in a report to the stewards.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Is it mandatory using the batterypack on stages? And using too much power will be punished in some way by FIA?
Am I correct, or not?

I would assume the team will set up the torque maps and ensure the systems wont allow the battery to drop below the minimum (30%). The driver can basically use 50% of the charged battery power (80% at the start of a stage, down to 30% by the end) and all the rest must be regenerated power.

As for any FIA penalties, I don't think they have been published.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Elfyn Evan's doesn't sound very happy with the short time available adapting to the hybrid system. Quite a contrast to Craig Breen who says he's really comfortable with the Puma having had a lot of testing time.

[EstWRC]

Breen sounds comfortable with everything no matter what you ask…

[AnttiL]

Like mentioned, Breen has tested a lot more the new car than Toyota guys.

[wyler]

italian media rumors on 2024 calendar: (reported interview from rallit.fi)

Jan Stovicek, president of czech motorsport federation and fia council memeber, aiming to set up a 3 nation event between germany, austria and czech republic (roughly around rally 3 stadte rally) for wrc 2024.
plan b a czech only round 2024/25

[Kenneth]

Yes, he also said in interview that he is looking to bring Czech round into WRC in 3 years.

[Mirek]

italian media rumors on 2024 calendar: (reported interview from rallit.fi)

Jan Stovicek, president of czech motorsport federation and fia council memeber, aiming to set up a 3 nation event between germany, austria and czech republic (roughly around rally 3 stadte rally) for wrc 2024.
plan b a czech only round 2024/25

That's why 3 Städte is part of Czech championship this year.

On the Czech side of the border there is Rallye Český Krumlov with some of the best stages we have. I'm only afraid that the craziest one Malonty is way too fast for an WRC event.

Český Krumlov is also a great place for prezentation of the country. There are accomodation capacities in the region and there are also several airports in reach (smaller ones but close in Linz and České Budějovice) or a large one in Vienna which is not that far.


If someone is interested, this is Malonty stage I wrote about: https://www.facebook.com/JanKopeckyOfficial/videos/543077913548617/

[doubled1978]

That's why 3 Städte is part of Czech championship this year.

On the Czech side of the border there is Rallye Český Krumlov with some of the best stages we have. I'm only afraid that the craziest one Malonty is way too fast for an WRC event.

Český Krumlov is also a great place for prezentation of the country. There are accomodation capacities in the region and there are also several airports in reach (smaller ones but close in Linz and České Budějovice) or a large one in Vienna which is not that far.


If someone is interested, this is Malonty stage I wrote about: https://www.facebook.com/JanKopeckyOfficial/videos/543077913548617/

Good stage..

[Kenneth]

Jan Stovicek confirmed this for Czech newspaper E15 - he said that works for 2024 3 stadte WRC event are beginning, plan B is Barum Rally Zlin.

[EstWRC]

Put it to Ott Tänak that Hyundai Motorsport starts the 2022 season on the back foot and he’s right back at you with one question. It’s the same question that everybody is asking. Right now, it’s the only question in the World Rally Championship.

In under a fortnight, we’ll have some answers. Today, nobody knows.

“How can anybody predict?” Tänak asks DirtFish. “It’s very hard to predict where we will be. We’ve been focusing on our own job to be happy ourselves. We do our own thing and when we go to the competition we will see how we compare to the other people.”

Last season, the Estonian’s frustrations with technical issues were clear to see. And hear. His words when the wipers failed in Kenya were telling: “The quality is amazing…”


This week the 2019 world champion’s tone and attitude couldn’t be more different.

He’s heard all the stories, all the rumors about where his i20 N Rally1 might or might not be in comparison to M-Sport’s Ford Puma and Toyota’s all-new hybrid Yaris. But he’s not interested in such talk. He’s interested in demonstrating his faith and appreciation in the team back at base in Alzenau.

“The team has done the maximum,” he said. “They have been flat out through all of the weekends and through all of the holidays. It’s not just about paying credit to [their efforts] it’s about the amazing job they have done [with the car].


“We have done everything we could and the guys have even done sometimes a bit more than the reality allows. Now we have one test session left before Monte and we will take the best we can out of that.

“OK, I guess you can always be in a better position – it’s the same for everybody – but honestly the team has done everything.”

Tänak, like his team-mate Thierry Neuville, refused to be drawn on who he wanted for a team principal at the top of the Hyundai Motorsport tree.

All Tänak would say is that he’s keen to see a resolution to the identity of Andrea Adamo’s successor sooner rather than later.

“People are missing the principal here in the team,” he said. “The things are critical with many new things and it’s important to have somebody [like Adamo] who is pushing the doors. People are working flat out here and that’s why the team principal is needed.

“I know the guys from Korea are working flat out on this topic, let’s see soon.”

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak-praises-hyundais-off-season-efforts/

[TypeR]

Any info about Toyota's recce cars? Will they use Yaris GRs now?

[rallyfiend]

Any info about Toyota's recce cars? Will they use Yaris GRs now?

They already started using them in Monza, I think?

[bearclaw]

Jan Stovicek confirmed this for Czech newspaper E15 - he said that works for 2024 3 stadte WRC event are beginning, plan B is Barum Rally Zlin.

...that sounds promising – hopefully Austria is also onboard. Maybe Red Bull will be a part of it – this year’s WRC presentation will take place at Red Bull’s Hangar-7 in Salzburg - you never know.

Are they going into the Rally Cesky Krumlov region or the Rallye Šumava Klatovy area?

Like Mirek said, Linz Airport is quite small but with good connection to Frankfurt Int. airport. There is the new S10 motorway or expressway form Linz to Freistadt. It’s just a 1h20’ drive from Airport Linz to the main region from Rally Cesky Krumlov. In Linz there are also a really good amount of hotels in every variety. From Linz to the stages of the 3 Städte Rally 2021 it’s reachable also in 1h20’.

It’s funny because in the last few weeks before Christmas I was working on a WRC fantasy event at Czech Republic and Austria on asphalt. I used several Jänner Rallye stages and a combination of Rally Cesky Krumlov stages with the event base in Linz. But I also have some concerns that some stages are too fast for WRC cars.

https://www.mapfab.com/map/AVEj/FANTASY-WRC-Austrian-Alpine-Rally-%C3%96sterreichische-Alpenfahrt-Austria-CZ-2023-Tarmac

I posted this a few years ago, that I was working also on a fantasy Rally with border crossing between the Czech Republic and Austria but this was a mixed event with gravel and asphalt day in Austria and one day on the Rally Cesky Krumlov stages on the Czech side.

https://www.motorsportforums.com/showthread.php?31525-Rally-Discussion-and-Bar-Talk-Thread&p=1207467&viewfull=1#post1207467

Maybe a dream come true and there is a new WRC event next to where I live.

[PLuto]

For me, on this level I dont think it can properly work cooperation of two organisers from two different countries. And with three countries...

[Mirek]

For me, on this level I dont think it can properly work cooperation of two organisers from two different countries. And with three countries...

Sweden/Norway, Belgium/France - it works if there is a will. Also 3-Städte has been German/Austrian already on national level.

[dupanton]

Serderidis will drive a Puma in Kenya and Acropolis, with 2 local rally's in Belgium as well. He will do some rally's in Greece as well, but not clear if that will be with a Puma

[rallyfiend]

Serderidis will drive a Puma in Kenya and Acropolis, with 2 local rally's in Belgium as well. He will do some rally's in Greece as well, but not clear if that will be with a Puma

Are the new Rally1 cars allowed to compete anywhere other than WRC?

It was a debate at one point....

[AnttiL]

Are the new Rally1 cars allowed to compete anywhere other than WRC?

It was a debate at one point....

At least in Finland they are allowed in an extra class, just not eligible for points.

[EstWRC]

Anything new or interesting talked about here?

https://youtu.be/UYXhIMfJzRU

[WRCStan]

Anything new or interesting talked about here?

https://youtu.be/UYXhIMfJzRU

-New cars means the season is a big unknown but still expects to be amongst the fastest in the end and be fighting for victories. First few rallies everything will be new to everybody.
-Admits the car development was late but they have caught up, says the car was not developed around just himself or Tanak, but both were involved in all decisions together
-Old cars advantage was that the centre diff could accept each driver's style
-Talks how the hybrid system works all the time a little bit and gives a boost after enough braking. Might not want the full power on every rally.
-Stumbles on how to describe what life without a team principal is like, but not worried.

I think so anyway, I don't understand French.

[AndyRAC]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-has-the-wrc-failed-to-attract-more-manufacturers/

[er88]

Unless we go full electric I don't think more than 4 manufacturers is possible in this day and age.

The championship isn't popular enough to accommodate more imo. You saw with Citroen that unless there's a realistic chance to win, then it'll be a no-go for manufacturers (besides Msport).

That's why I hope Hyundai haven't fucked themselves with the late development of this rally1 car, because they will walk if they have a fundamentally flawed car. Tanak and Neuville at least sound optimistic though, so fingers crossed.

You could argue Toyota are only even in the championship because of the love the president has for the sport.

[TypeR]

Not 100% the topic, but Toyota also nailed it with the Yaris GR. Small, 4wd hot hatch. I20N is also a cool small hot hatch, but can't compete with more powerful and 4wd GR, which has sold a lot..

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's nearly time ... :bounce:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJI7f0YWQAEhvsk?format=jpg&name=large

[tommeke_B]

Tanak and Neuville at least sound optimistic though, so fingers crossed.
It is their job to sound optimistic.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

WRC Live launch : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uppkKj1ksVk

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKIdj7X0AEj0hU?format=png&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKIdvkWUAEZHOu?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKId6GWUAU5HXl?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKIeDyXIAEBSrZ?format=png&name=900x900

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271965799_10160253683569973_1686870561706769558_n. jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=6vgzG3izwQgAX9RP2up&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&oh=00_AT9Olg6e2epYOkIFfBdDZAuOhAcwcqOkLrkkFPEKuBjo 0w&oe=61E8B5C8
https://scontent.fopo5-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271995024_10160253683649973_2128776512829092288_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RiL9RsdeqLsAX82ZKCL&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-2.fna&oh=00_AT_Q05zlG7BISrSTONFFwoJyzUS6-VvqpJzi0w34VFBloQ&oe=61E8D47F
https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271893446_10160253683309973_7097302032941566892_n. jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=V-NCrJ48OWEAX8Lltqk&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-1.fna&oh=00_AT8O5yLaPBmxGZRGfqbTy4veyPV1hgNZt_VWeGzxNrZV LA&oe=61E8D157

[Andre Oliveira]

https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271989989_10160253683474973_7341338500967809855_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=YvQ1yByvVpcAX9hPrIk&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-1.fna&oh=00_AT9LR1mS9LHnxkXo6EoO0NhCgd63KtZHzwTHN2YqSE21 nA&oe=61E8384D
https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271929722_10160253683334973_3704800154388997154_n. jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=E1dx_jh_KG0AX_J9Uq9&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-1.fna&oh=00_AT_z85CImvhocC_FmltP9EPuMvY_ELX60okRF7apgwfR kQ&oe=61E88DAB
https://scontent.fopo5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271919665_10160253683349973_333797321872533144_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=RwfYKYGTGYgAX_-gXqi&_nc_ht=scontent.fopo5-1.fna&oh=00_AT-fBs4PLKlv_O6ch3PH3jElHYzDZtvoIQrHlMNGFUam6g&oe=61E86271

[mknight]

Great! Finally my small daughter will want to watch WRC with me.(violet car)

[Andre Oliveira]

Pic of Garry Barker

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJLt85NXMAA2vdx?format=jpg&name=medium

[Rally Hokkaido]

Well, M-Sport have won the first round of 2022 WRC! The violet is a nice touch, especially the pin-striping part. The huge Ford logo was a shock, though actually it's not so prominent once the car is viewed at even a slight angle (see last pic above).

[linni]

As Malcolm said yesterday, Ford had pretty strong part on developing the car, so I guess it was inevitable.

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKPmRfWQAM1oeb?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKQcU_XoAo9yGB?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKQAGQWYAMq1H4?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKPntfXsAY9axM?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKQcTzWYAgudpv?format=jpg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJKQAGQXEAgjHxs?format=jpg&name=medium

[EstWRC]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220116/745dc1a0bbda4ae2f73b91b519bbd1d4.jpg

[Crutt]

Taking photos of what a completed car looks like

[EstWRC]

Yep, Hyundai had a show car, others real ones which go to monte

[doubled1978]

I actually really like the overall look of the Puma, I thought it would look awkward but in actuality it looks great, and I really like the paint scheme. Reminds a bit of when Red Bul F1 used the purple in livery. The Toyota isn’t bad, but the air scoops aren’t integrated at all really, and that looks crap. The Hyundai is for me the worst by a mile, which is a shame as the previous generation car I thought was the best!

[cali]

After watching the launch event now is it just me but does the i20 look really small compared to Yaris and specially the Puma.

Is there any specs available or was this just another illusion?

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[EstWRC]

You’re not alone, I noticed the same

Usually they put the info on wrc.com

[rallyfiend]

After watching the launch event kow is it just me but does the i20 look really small compared to Yaris and specially the Puma.

Is there any specs available or was this just another illusion?

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

It's not a real rally car.

the real thing may be different

I assume they possibly just stuck bits on an actual road car. The real one will be based off the space-frame chassis...

[bandit12]

Well. Because it's a mule... Real racecars size could be different.

[cali]

We'll see amigos, we'll see... Strange to see the mule so much off the real dimensions or maybe it's Hyundai being clever again...

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[Andre Oliveira]

When Hyundai was clever? To you say “again”…

[cali]

When Hyundai was clever? To you say “again”…Not the first time they have been giving false information or using mule car in tests and then claiming that everything has been redone etc etc etc shall I continue or don't you remember how the Arctic Rally was won?

Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk

[ouvreur]

There's not so much worth looking at on that Hyundai show car. Certainly nothing can be learned about the packaging or chassis design, and probably not very much about the aero either. While M-Sport and Toyota's cars were getting plenty of close attention in Salzburg, the i20 was... not. Whether by mistake or through careful planning, they've at least kept their cards up their sleeve for another couple of days.

[AnttiL]

There's not so much worth looking at on that Hyundai show car. Certainly nothing can be learned about the packaging or chassis design, and probably not very much about the aero either. While M-Sport and Toyota's cars were getting plenty of close attention in Salzburg, the i20 was... not. Whether by mistake or through careful planning, they've at least kept their cards up their sleeve for another couple of days.

The cars are homologated so the cards are on the table, no one can change major things anymore except through homologation jokers (and at the same time homologation jokers should be used for constant development)

[mknight]

The cars are homologated so the cards are on the table, no one can change major things anymore except through homologation jokers (and at the same time homologation jokers should be used for constant development)

Yeah I doubt anyone will use jokers based on how other cars look like.

Unless there are major issues I don't expect many jokers before april. (with the possible exception of Hyundai).

In the meantime there will be tons of opportunities for detailed pictures of every part of the cars from the outside and trough windows.

[AnttiL]

Yeah I doubt anyone will use jokers based on how other cars look like.

Unless there are major issues I don't expect many jokers before april. (with the possible exception of Hyundai).

In the meantime there will be tons of opportunities for detailed pictures of every part of the cars from the outside and trough windows.

When Toyota came up with the CD rack rear aero, Hyundai and Ford followed soon. Difficult to say if there was some similar revolutionary solutions for the other teams. Yaris aero mirrors?

[Andre Oliveira]

Yeah I doubt anyone will use jokers based on how other cars look like.

Unless there are major issues I don't expect many jokers before april. (with the possible exception of Hyundai).

In the meantime there will be tons of opportunities for detailed pictures of every part of the cars from the outside and trough windows.

You only used jokers in allowed windows.

[mknight]

When Toyota came up with the CD rack rear aero, Hyundai and Ford followed soon. Difficult to say if there was some similar revolutionary solutions for the other teams. Yaris aero mirrors?

Hyundai changed first in GB 2017 and only for Neuville so some 8 months later.
Ford changed for Finland 2018, 1,5 year later.

And those were only area increases not some massive redesign everywhere like the 2020 C3.

[ouvreur]

The cars are homologated so the cards are on the table, no one can change major things anymore except through homologation jokers (and at the same time homologation jokers should be used for constant development)

No, true, but there's plenty that can be done slightly differently even on a homologated car, even details as fine as the orientation and positioning of the spare wheels can have an influence. Also, just keeping the other teams guessing for another couple of days is worth something, even if it's just to annoy them :laugh:

[wyler]

i.e. Puma showed small bits that didn't have in the test car

[Mirek]

No, true, but there's plenty that can be done slightly differently even on a homologated car, even details as fine as the orientation and positioning of the spare wheels can have an influence. Also, just keeping the other teams guessing for another couple of days is worth something, even if it's just to annoy them :laugh:

Discussing the position of the spare wheel was a thing 17 years ago when Focus 06 was introduced. That's the last experiment I recall.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/rally-ni-wont-happen-in-2022/

Rally NI not happening in 2022. Replacement list likely to include Ypres and Monza.

[EstWRC]

Shame but please no Monza.

I’d like to see Germany back

[AnttiL]

Actually I was also hoping for Deutschland, having heard rumors about it somewhere (here?). Even though Deutschland is one of my least favourite rallies. Ypres would be nice as well.

[Eli]

I really really hope we don’t get Monza for a third year running. I’d love it if Deutschland would be back, if not then Ypres and if they can’t make it then perhaps France, perhaps Corsica? All wishful thinking of course. I just hope NZ won’t be cancelled again.

[AndyRAC]

Monza is the lazy choice - and it could be good if they actually did more running in the mountains, and less at the circuit, but they don't........I quite liked Deutschland, but it became a bit stale. I wouldn't say no to a return to Ypres, but they need to increase the km on the Sunday, for the distance they have to travel.


As for no UK round for another year, well, "you reap what you sew". MSUK were seemingly asleep on the job for a number of years and just expected Wales to keep backing the event. It beggars belief that an event that used to get huge crowds, media coverage, etc not only isn't in the WRC, it can't even run as a national event.

[mknight]

Both Monza and Ypres are bad, each in their own way. Out of those Monza has maybe most potential for "character change".

[dupanton]

I wouldn't say no to a return to Ypres, but they need to increase the km on the Sunday, for the distance they have to travel.




It's funny as Ypres is the 2nd most compact rally on the calender (behind Monza) in terms of stage km / total km.
I prefer a compact rally with 1 long liaison over a rally full of half long liaisons.
Also, on rallies like Monte Carlo, a 3 hour liaison is common.

[Kenneth]

Can we maybe see Czech rally now when Stovicek is trying to push it into WRC?

[AnttiL]

Can we maybe see Czech rally now when Stovicek is trying to push it into WRC?

I think it's too early. Normal rallies who plan to run in August have their route now planned etc.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Very sad news on Rally NI 2022.

It was our last best hope of a UK return of the WRC in the one area that has shown ANY real interest in putting on an event here.

I fear if Rally NI doesnt happen in 2023 then that will be end for a WRC rally ever again in this country.

[becher]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/who-will-be-wrc-champion-we-predict-the-2022-order/?fbclid=IwAR0jzYMZ5Opx6nRquntJMxy547QAIEGbP3XtGC1M eqJvX6SKD2zLw7ccY3I

Not really news, but might be of interest regardless.

[Kenneth]

They did forget Ogier?

[AndyRAC]

It was our last best hope of a UK return of the WRC in the one area that has shown ANY real interest in putting on an event here.


One has to ask the MSUK, why are they(NI) the only area/region showing any interest? Pretty damning in all honesty for MSUK that they've made a mess of the event.

[Danny0405]

https://www.rallye-sport.fr/s-loeb-jetais-un-peu-a-la-limite-tout-le-temps/

Loeb says he will not be in Croatia.
Neither Ogier (said «*not before Portugal*»)

Apparently, it is pretty sure for Ogier’s entry in Portugal and Portugal is also compatible with Rally Raid and Extreme E calendar. A new fight between the 2?

From what I saw before, Portugal and Spain were the most compatible rallies for Loeb with rally-raid and Extreme E and also the TBD August round; Safari possible but more complex. All of them make sense for Loeb (victory in Catalunya not that far away, tarmac TBD and maybe Germany, good road position in Portugal, Safari road position + partially rally raid approach even if less than the old Safari) so I think they will find an agreement for 2 or 3 of these ones (all the more now with his victory that raises his PR ranking again). Don’t think more than this because Loeb has been quite clear he doesn’t want too much races.

For Ogier, with WEC where he seems to discuss for a full LMP2 program, Portugal, Kenya, the TBD August round, New Zealand and Spain are compatible (I forget the Nordic rallies). And Latvala said Toyota wants him in Japan for PR (same weekend than WEC Bahrain); probably 4 to Pick among these 6. I remember Ogier told he liked a lot Safari so I would bet Portugal and Safari for the next ones. Ogier said it should be discussed soon as his WEC program is finalizing.
Latvala’s bet recently was MC, Croatia, Sardinia, New Zealand and Japan so a little far from this.

[er88]

One has to ask the MSUK, why are they(NI) the only area/region showing any interest? Pretty damning in all honesty for MSUK that they've made a mess of the event.They're a bandit operation.

[Danny0405]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-and-ogier-expected-to-resume-wrc-battle-in-kenya/

No fact but more some assumptions about the calendar and the conflicts with their other championships.
It’s not evoked in the article but also Galmiche’s calendar may be in the mix as she is a math teacher (even if in some special sort of school) so, as the preparation is much more important and long for a world rally in main class, she may not afford to be outside anytime (different than the rallies she has done so far in the number of days to spend) and Loeb seemed to stick with her for all his stints which is logical.

And I would not be surprised for Ogier as he was very enthusiastic (which is not frequent with him, I precise it’s not a criticism) about Safari and he says it again.

[dimviii]

Gregor Pavsic
@GregorPavsic
According to official press release, WRC stays in Croatia for at least 3 years. Great news. @croatia_rally
@OfficialWRC
@voiceofrally
#wrc #croatia @DirtFishRally
@McKlein_Rally

[TypeR]

Sounds interesting!
https://www.upload.ee/image/13834639/Screenshot_20220127-211053_Instagram.jpg

[AnttiL]

Ogier announced doing WEC season so likely he's not driving Acropolis and Japan. Also Le Mans is only week before Safari Rally so likely he has to skip that.

[Tom K]

Rally Sardinia moves to Alghero - as it was announced last year - but still has SSS in Olbia. Power Stafe Argientiera is in itinerary again.

https://www.rallyitaliasardegna.com/2022/02/01/rally-italia-sardegna-here-is-the-new-edition-2022/?lang=en

[EstWRC]

Kalle Rovanpera says the World Rally Championship's new cars are "tricky" to drive on snow, requiring a "lot of work in the cockpit" following a first test in the conditions.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/rovanpera-new-wrc-car-quite-a-handful-on-snow/7795871/

[Tom K]

Kris Meeke and Mads Ostberg in Skodas from SRT in Qatar Rally

https://twitter.com/MotorsportSkoda/status/1488520009529843721

[dimviii]

#ROCSweden
@RaceOfChampions
·

This is going to be extra special. Smiling face with heart-shaped eyes

1994 #WRC world champion and ROC's all-time record holder Didier Auriol returns! Auriol will team up with @SebastienLoeb
, who also has a chance to equal Didier's record of four individual ROC wins. Flag of France


Petter Solberg
@Petter_Solberg

The @RaceOfChampions
draw has been done, and I'll be up against my friend @SebastienLoeb
in the first round! Flexed biceps Let's hope that Monte win took some energy out of him! Face with tears of joy

And if I get through, in the next round I could come up against @OliverSolberg01
...!OK hand #ROCSweden



https://dirtfish.com/rally/auriol-joins-loeb-in-frances-race-of-champions-lineup/

[Mirek]

I didn't know RoC was still a thing. Last time I watched it was some ten years ago :)

[er88]

Kalle Rovanpera says the World Rally Championship's new cars are "tricky" to drive on snow, requiring a "lot of work in the cockpit" following a first test in the conditions.

https://www.motorsport.com/wrc/news/rovanpera-new-wrc-car-quite-a-handful-on-snow/7795871/Good!

[mknight]

Kris Meeke and Mads Ostberg in Skodas from SRT in Qatar Rally

https://twitter.com/MotorsportSkoda/status/1488520009529843721

Huh that's all kinds of unexpected. Østberg part, Meeke was mentioned by Skoda themselves before as a candidate and is testing the new car for them.

Does it mean it's completely over with Citroen? Is Skoda in some way paying for the start?

[1988senna]

Sounds interesting!
https://www.upload.ee/image/13834639/Screenshot_20220127-211053_Instagram.jpg

2237why the page show this content is no longer available
https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/sebastien-ogier/umc.cmc.4q11niol2wek2saqq85872k0c

[dimviii]

Rally Paradise
@rallyparadise
·
11m
Did not see this coming,but very clever! Like @TGR_WRC
#Toyota now also @HMSGOfficial
#Hyundai´s official testing place is located in #Finland! That´s why they are testing there during this week for #RallySweden. It will be very busy year for Finnish professional spectators! #WRC

[EstWRC]

Hyundai have chosen to use Jämsä, Finland, as their permanent testing site for 2022 #WRC season. They are following Toyota's example as TGR have used the roads near their HQ for testing since their return to the series.

from https://twitter.com/HartusvuoriWRC/status/1488969942783479808

Solberg also said to finnish TV news today somethin like that if you can make the car work here(Finland), it works everywhere

[AnttiL]

So two of the three teams are testing permanently 100 km from my home :D

[SubaruNorway]

Anyone heard where M-Sport will be this year?

[AnttiL]

Anyone heard where M-Sport will be this year?

Greystoke?

[Morte66]

Greystoke?

I read that as "Castle Greyskull".

Should I worry?

[jacko]

Jos Verstappen drives the Rally of Haspengouw, the first round of the Belgian Rally Championship (BRC). JV drives a Citroën C3 R5 with navigator Kris Botson next to him. The intention is that he will also participate in some WRC rallies later this year. Perhaps later Max will also follow his father in this...

[Hartusvuori]

So two of the three teams are testing permanently 100 km from my home :D

I'll look forward to your reports :-)

[flat_right]

2237why the page show this content is no longer available
https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/sebastien-ogier/umc.cmc.4q11niol2wek2saqq85872k0c

So the thing is that the "Sébastien Ogier: The Final Season" documentary is currently available only in France on Explore channel via AppleTV app. If someone has AppleTV account then maybe you can try with VPN and see if it works. For others the documentary will be available worldwide on Red Bull TV this spring.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Greystoke?

Yes. Plus they already tested the Puma in Finland for fast gravel and snow conditions.

[AnttiL]

Yes. Plus they already tested the Puma in Finland for fast gravel and snow conditions.

We need to separate different kinds of testing

- Every rally has a PET, one day per driver per rally. So basically three days per rally in some European country. Not necessarily same country.
- The permanent testing area allows unlimited development tests, but usually these are not rally-by-rally PETs. Also the roads are very limited. The Finnish test sites seem to consist of small and fast forest roads, nothing very technical, rough or conversly nothing very wide. And of course no tarmac.
- The weight of permanent area development testing is smaller than previously because there is less homologation jokers and less things to develop (namely aero and center diff settings).
- Previously they had a numbered allocation of test days, meaning that you could skip testing, say, Portugal, and use two days for your Croatia test. But this is not possible anymore since last year with the new rule of allocated days per rally (although I'm not sure whether FIA sanctions doing a tarmac test for a gravel rally?), at least the testing days must be split evenly between the drivers who are participating in said rally.
- What they did last year was extra development testing for the new cars.

But as for M-Sport, I believe they still have their PET days for Rally Sweden available. Hyundai also visited Finland with the first iteration of i20 Rally1 in the summer.

[CWJ]

I think it's too early. Normal rallies who plan to run in August have their route now planned etc.

...and if they use Barum for both ERC and WRC once a day?

[AnttiL]

...and if they use Barum for both ERC and WRC once a day?

I don't understand this post, but I think FIA/Promoter is looking forward to rotating rallies between ERC and WRC. It would increase the value of ERC by having old WRC events in the series and allow more rallies to be in the WRC event organizer "pool" but not sure if it will work out on the long run. Using a WRC organization to arrange an ERC event is shooting a fly with a cannon, as we say in Finland.

[AnttiL]

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loubet-agrees-seven-round-wrc-campaign-with-m-sport/

Loubet in a Puma from Croatia onwards

Croatia, Portugal, Italy, Estonia, Finland (or the to-be-confirmed event in August), Acropolis and Spain.

[Danny0405]

Sponsored driver but still a young one with some potential so not bad to see him having a half-time program.
Quite a bad year last year but M-Sport could benefit that he is not a rookie anymore to expect a step up from him.

[Danny0405]

Also good to see that we will have an interesting 4th M-Sport car for most of the year (Loeb in MC, Loubet for half of the season, it also lets one or two more rounds for Loeb).
Maybe not New Zealand and Japan considering the cost (+ Sweden with Bertelli) but probably all the rest

[Mirek]

...and if they use Barum for both ERC and WRC once a day?

That won't happen anyway.

[PLuto]

Sponsored driver but still a young one with some potential so not bad to see him having a half-time program.
Quite a bad year last year but M-Sport could benefit that he is not a rookie anymore to expect a step up from him.

He is quite talented driver, but he has chosen not the best way for progress in his career. He is making too big steps too early...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

But as for M-Sport, I believe they still have their PET days for Rally Sweden available. Hyundai also visited Finland with the first iteration of i20 Rally1 in the summer.

Just stating that they also tested the PUMA in Finland before it was homologated and weren't restricted to Greystoke and the M-Sport Vehicle Evaluation Centre (as they are now).

Hyundai have only tested the confirmed iteration of their I20 in France on ice/tarmac (until Neuville crashed it).

[Danny0405]

He is quite talented driver, but he has chosen not the best way for progress in his career. He is making too big steps too early...

I don’t agree totally on this.
It’s really difficult for a young guy to even reach the level of obtaining WRC/Rally1 drives in an official team and it’s all the more difficult now with only 2 manufacturers + M-Sport.
So, when you have an opportunity to obtain a good amount of drives, I think you have to take it. With Tidemand and other youngsters, we have seen that when you wait too long, one can never reach the main class.
The issue then is to show something in terms of consistency and, after that, showing some speed; the issue for a young guy is not to forget priorities.

I have the same idea about Camilli in 2016 even if, in his case, it was really early. The same for Fourmaux (but M-Sport was more cautious with him).

Here for Loubet, he had more than 10 drives to see what is the level of WRC cars. Now it is time to deliver and he has taken the best car for this.

[PLuto]

I don’t agree totally on this.
It’s really difficult for a young guy to even reach the level of obtaining WRC/Rally1 drives in an official team and it’s all the more difficult now with only 2 manufacturers + M-Sport.
So, when you have an opportunity to obtain a good amount of drives, I think you have to take it. With Tidemand and other youngsters, we have seen that when you wait too long, one can never reach the main class.
The issue then is to show something in terms of consistency and, after that, showing some speed; the issue for a young guy is not to forget priorities.

I have the same idea about Camilli in 2016 even if, in his case, it was really early. The same for Fourmaux (but M-Sport was more cautious with him).

Here for Loubet, he had more than 10 drives to see what is the level of WRC cars. Now it is time to deliver and he has taken the best car for this.

Camilli, Fourmaux, Loubet -- same story. For all of them it was too early to step up so high... On the other hand Tidemand is quite different story...

[Danny0405]

Camilli, Fourmaux, Loubet -- same story. For all of them it was too early to step up so high... On the other hand Tidemand is quite different story...

I can understand your opinion but still I do not agree.
With such a low number of manufacturer drives, I cannot criticize a young driver that wants to take the opportunity because he may never have it again.

The only one in the list whose choice was maybe not good is Camilli stepping up in WRC with only one season of R5 whereas there were more manufacturers at that time.

+ the competition is really high in R5 so staying in R5 may be a stagnation (exactly what happen to Tidemand).
Staying in R5 longer may make you more ready for main class but it may also cause a drop in your rating among WRC teams and, later, they may not offer you the opportunity again.