Deutschland rally 2016

[KKS]

as always :)

[dimviii]

@dimviii Happy Birthday -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF7ulsNkPXk

thanks mate! Good morning guys!

Michelin Motorsport ‏@Michelin_Sport

#Tyre Info:
Ogier/Mikkelsen/Ostberg: 3H+1S
Latvala: 4H+1S
Camilli/Paddon: 4H+2S
Sordo/Neuville: 3H+2S

[danon]

"WRC: Rally Deutschland (Germany) - Special Stage 16" Sauertal 1 LIVE STREAM -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9-pGQm4BUs

[KKS]

For Ogier/Mikkelsen/Ostberg it's some mistake. Andreas have 2 spare tyre... so it might be 3H+3S

[KKS]

"WRC: Rally Deutschland (Germany) - Special Stage 16" Sauertal 1 LIVE STREAM -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9-pGQm4BUs
it's fake?
I saw another links yesterday for SS5 with 0 views

[Rally Hokkaido]

Reminds me a bit of Delecour's Mitsubishi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxeqZF36CYc

Yes, it does. However, IIRC, the engine out of Delecourt's car was further away from the car!

[danon]

it's fake?
I saw another links yesterday for SS5 with 0 views

looks like a fake one
no stream yet

[danon]

http://www.laola1.tv/partner/v4player/index.php?identifier=wrc_live

[EstWRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqXWEt-WIAAUk7t.jpg

[danon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmNNVJ94Lys

[RS]

Looks like WRC2 boys are cruising today. Good drive by Lappi, I think Kopecky could be quicker but it was all a bit pointless after the puncture.

[dimviii]

Looks like WRC2 boys are cruising today. Good drive by Lappi, I think Kopecky could be quicker but it was all a bit pointless after the puncture.

Κopecky is on different tyres(soft) and car is moving a lot,instead of Lappi who is satisfied with his choice.

[KKS]

A bit of delay after Camilli on SS17. Anyone know why?

[danon]

on the radio said "canceled" but waiting for conformation from the officials

[Simmi]

Shame the stage is cancelled. Must be a lot of people spilling into the vines and they aren't happy.

[KKS]

Ogier luckyone))) this situation play on his hand. :D

[dimviii]

Sun 10:07 - SS17: Stage cancelled
Rally organisers have cancelled on the grounds of spectator safety.

[René]

Gabin MOREAU 1H00

Hello friends. Thank you all for your messages, all this is really heartwarming and makes you want to fight to come back even stronger. I am not able to walk at the moment ... I have a broken left foot and fractured right tibia. My left hand is broken, have displaced collarbone and a cracked vertebra. In short .... despite all this. I do not lose my will to come back and it is thanks to you.

The impact was very violent and the minutes that followed ... felt extremely long. It was impossible to get out of the car. Eric and Benjamin arrived first on the scene. Thanks to all the help on the scene, you guys ��! The organizers and rescue teams have done an outstanding job as well and we have been supported. Unfortunately, I did not get much news from Steph who is in another hospital 130km

Thank you a thousand times to you all for your support! See you soon!


https://www.facebook.com/GabinMoreauOfficial/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf

[dimviii]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1AGnWRwLnM

[dimviii]

so positions 2-3-4 are open and will be decided at power stage. Hyundais seems pretty fast at dry asphalt,with no tricky conditions.
Latvala said will try for the 3 points also.

[Eli]

so it's all in Ogier's hands to win (or lose)this rally...should be an interesting last stage...for the fight for second anyhow.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[KKS]

Any link for power stage?

[stefanvv]

here are some - http://livetv.sx/bg/eventinfo/437858_rallye_deutschland/

[stefanvv]

probably here too - http://cricfree.sc/watch/live/fia-world-rally-championship-live-streaming

[Simmi]

No one watching power stage? A bit of late drama for Mikkelsen with brake issues. Scrappy finish.

[Eli]

brakes were in flames

[Eli]

Neuville fastest on the power stage for now, and 2.7 seconds gap between them going in to the stage, very interesting...

[spark13]

Neuville is on fire too
Danny have 1.3sec in store after first split
Edit Neuville lost by 0.1

[KKS]

Uhhhhhoooouuuuu! Welldone Dani! podium position! Good rally!
Two non VW's on poduim! Great :D )))

[AL14]

They can't even manage to put the right driver's interview in the right moment.

[Eli]

yes what a drive by Dani, very well done, only a tenth of a second between them, what a great fight!!!

[marcosg]

great speed display from both hyundai drivers!

ogier performance on panzerplatte made the diference

[GravelBen]

Now I'm sure that Capito will be consistent with the last few rallies and release a statement about how meaningless Ogier's victory is because he had the best road position...

;)

[WUff1]

Congrats to the Hyundai drivers - and the best wishes to Moreau and Lefebvre after their horrible accident!

Hope Capito´s farewell is true this time!

[Eli]

and if it's so important for them when does the rally finish at least they can make sure we see the podium celebrations back in Trier...good fight between the Hyundai's, would be a shame if Neuville leaves them, they could challenge VW for the manufacturers title...more consistent (or Latvala makes a lot of mistakes)...

[dimviii]

Well done to Ogier Ingrassia.Fully deserved win,made the difference on the big one,and controlling the gap after that.
Nice to see Neuville with good progress at last rallies.Conrats to Sordo,funally a good result without car problems.
Pitty that dmack havent got a tyre to michelin level,even close,Tanak for sure can play with rest guys at top.
Strange that Mikkelsen at dry stages wasnt up to the level he was at previous days/stages.



watch how close are positions after Ogier at championship.Very tight!

2. Mikkelsen 110
3. Paddon 94
4. Neuville 94
5. Latvala 93
6. Sordo 86

http://puu.sh/qIZbt/c40245575f.jpg

[Simmi]

watch how close are positions after Ogier at championship.Very tight!

2. Mikkelsen 110
3. Paddon 94
4. Neuville 94
5. Latvala 93
6. Sordo 86


Latvala should be on 89 points no?

[dimviii]

Latvala should be on 89 points no?

yes you are right,i just copied it from another forum,seems they calculate his points wrong.
here are the right ones

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqYWVcjWEAEWxQv.jpg


Huyndai can fight for the manufacture
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqYWVbgXYAQzX0Q.jpg

[rallysupportnl]

WRC Rallye Deutschland 2016 - Highlights

http://i65.tinypic.com/2pzgy82.jpg (https://youtu.be/nxqYXobKTbk)

Click on the photo or here --> https://youtu.be/nxqYXobKTbk

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen off road at power stage
https://web.facebook.com/rallyemag/videos/10154490880759973/?_rdr

[Ucci]

Ogier-as much as I don't like the guy; it was about a time for his victory. Finally my predictions didn't fail.....congrats to him& Ingrasia.
Both Hyundai's-great result, and also the gap to Ogi is not a thing to worry about....they will have victories in future, no doubt about that.
WRC2-awesome result for Škoda!! PSA&Ford were defetead like hungry dogs(words from N.O.T, lol...).
At the end-I must praise "my driver"-Andolfi with P208 R2. Very strong result, third behind much more competetive Adam's.

[Simmi]

Update from Lefebvre: https://www.facebook.com/notes/st%C3%A9phane-lefebvre/st%C3%A9phane-lefebvre-and-gabin-moreau-back-as-soon-as-possible/1094553497248608

No details on Stephane's injuries but he's concerned he won't be able to compete in Corsica.

[bluuford]

Mikkelsen off road at power stage
https://web.facebook.com/rallyemag/videos/10154490880759973/?_rdr
Andreas tends to collect potatoes on potato field, trees from the grasslands, seems like kind of hobby (souvenirs), however, this time he was smarter and took the trees outside the corner and made organisers to pay instead of himself :P

Nice rally, very challanging weather forecasts, took me ages and still had one moderate mistake ;)

[Mintexmemory]

Sadly for Lefebvre I'd say he can only be way behind Breen in the contest for a Citroen ride next year. Anyone know why Prevot wasn't co-driving for SL in Germany?

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/6UdGcKjEMqI

[dimviii]

nice video by JM.Watch where is standing the marshall after the jump where 208 r5 crashed.

https://youtu.be/aGULpZflj1o

[dimviii]

michelin motorsport video
https://youtu.be/1kgLcdroNM4


http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/25/94/Rallye_Deutschland_2016_112_259450_57b95b86e.jpg

[BicioWrc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjFdA1EcXA

The Highlights of Rallymedia...always my favourite videomakers:D

[Simmi]

Sadly for Lefebvre I'd say he can only be way behind Breen in the contest for a Citroen ride next year. Anyone know why Prevot wasn't co-driving for SL in Germany?

Shame for Stephane. Hopefully he can get back in the car this year. I can't see Citroen dropping him.

As for the co-driver, Gabin has been sat with Lefebvre all year. I think Prevot was forced out over the off-season. Maybe some other forumers might know more whether any kind of good relationship still remains.

[RS]

WRC2-awesome result for Škoda!! PSA&Ford were defetead like hungry dogs(words from N.O.T, lol...).


WRC2 is turning in to a one-make championship.. the Skoda seems to be the best but also hardly anybody uses the Ford (and nobody good apart from Evans )

[AL14]

Shame for Stephane. Hopefully he can get back in the car this year. I can't see Citroen dropping him.

As for the co-driver, Gabin has been sat with Lefebvre all year. I think Prevot was forced out over the off-season. Maybe some other forumers might know more whether any kind of good relationship still remains.
Prevot wanted money. He wrote it himself

[Andre Oliveira]

WRC2 is turning in to a one-make championship.. the Skoda seems to be the best but also hardly anybody uses the Ford (and nobody good apart from Evans )

Skoda have the best drivers. The cars are in same level according one friend that tested both.

[dimviii]

Mikkelsen hitting a bale
https://youtu.be/JI44nI3E6Ao

[dimviii]

Ziggysony video
https://youtu.be/ZO68Dj9q0Gw

[MartijnS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjFdA1EcXA

The Highlights of Rallymedia...always my favourite videomakers:D

Thanks for posting my brothers video!
We had a good rally again.
We spent the whole shakedown at the fast spot where Paddon and Mikkelsen had some big moments. Quite unbelievable how many risks the guys take at such a highspeed spot, with nothing to win haha.
Friday was a slow day in spectator perspective. Went to two spots on the first stage. First one was the flatout downhill section in the video. Road above us was where the 206R5 crashed into the wall and Mikkelsen had his big moment.
Second run we went there, I took some shots of the small jump just after the spot. Than we went to the last stage of the day, not a bad downhill spot and three passes of the guys. Didn't expect it to be so good.
Saturday started at Freisen, where they made a big cut in a right left corner. Not so special. After that we found a new fast spot at Panzerplatte, too bad for only 8 cars. Than to Burger King to watch some onboards of the first run of Freisen on WRC+ to see if there were any interesting spots we missed. Not really, so went to a spot we found in recce already. Pretty decent spot with few cuts there. Panzerplatte second time again at a new section for us. Such a big area, really like to walk around there!
So 7 stages in total, cause we went home last night. Curious whats going to happen next year with the rally.

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14103043_1088078494613452_8999332388720165789_o.jp g

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14047218_1088079234613378_1306699221773190449_o.jp g

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14102802_1088078267946808_2629461612752223575_o.jp g

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14053784_1088078304613471_3828403231957794568_o.jp g

https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13995641_1088078617946773_3604433613580509881_o.jp g

More at our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/rallymedia/ !

[Jarek Z]

WRC2 is turning in to a one-make championship.. the Skoda seems to be the best but also hardly anybody uses the Ford (and nobody good apart from Evans )

Interesting fact - the first 3 drivers of the WRC2 drive Skodas and are former European Rally Champions :)
https://www.fiaerc.com/a-1-2-3-for-erc-champions-in-germany/

[dimviii]

More at our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/rallymedia/ !

like this one

https://scontent.fath3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14054146_1088079241280044_4697162033837409085_n.jp g?oh=94aaa6dfcaf23617f770166adbc7cbba&oe=5850713F

[dimviii]

devillers video
https://youtu.be/Ti0P8gd_ZY4

[hari]

Some images: http://www.ir7.at/content/fotos_bestof_wrc_adac_rallye_deutschland_2016.html

https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14047174_1498171036875620_4063168411314440_o.jpg

[Rally Power]

Nice rally, despite Lefebvre accident. Congrats to Ogier, Lappi, Tempestini and Pryce, their codrivers and teams. Also great job from the Hyundai guys. Hope one of them wins in Corsica!

[SubaruNorway]

Where was there an issue with spectators in SS17?
From Camilli's onboard everything looks fine apart from a marshall on the road close to the finish...

[danon]

Skoda have the best drivers. The cars are in same level according one friend that tested both.

guess who's coming shortly to prove you wrong...

you'll be dealt with very soon...

[Toox]

https://youtu.be/hyJ9sM9FpmQ

[danon]

http://s5.postimg.org/epgaf6n47/Og_WG.jpg

[RS]

guess who's coming shortly to prove you wrong...

you'll be dealt with very soon...

What are you talking about?

[GoranSaric]

In Ogier service zone, after the celebration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAgoOwzlPdk

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/7b5ys7DcoTU

[dimviii]

isnt it a bit low?

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/26/12/Rallye_Deutschland_2016_142_261288_57b9ee27c.jpg

Sordos and Neuvilles fathers

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/26/13/Rallye_Deutschland_2016_143_261300_57b9ee294.jpg

lol
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/26/13/Rallye_Deutschland_2016_144_261304_57b9ee2a8.jpg

[tommeke_B]

Skoda have the best drivers. The cars are in same level according one friend that tested both.

All respect to that friend who tested both, no idea who he is... But I know national drivers in Belgium (some of the better drivers here) who admitted they don't feel the difference between the Fiesta R5 and the Fiesta R5 Evo (talking just about the engine evolution)... Maybe the difference is too small for most (or even all) drivers to feel it, but it is there. Also from what I heard the Skoda is a very different car to drive than the Fiesta. All we can rely on is the results in both national and international championships. And we can see that everywhere people who drive Skoda's are adapting and getting good results very quickly.

[JTGANG]

Pretty nice video !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuszf6DC3vA

[Andre Oliveira]

tommeke_B by respect i can't reveal who is, but he tested full evo of Fiesta with chassis updates too and a Fabia with litle km in same stage. Fabia and Fiesta driving style are bit different but he told me that the cars are not so different. If you have drivers as Kopecky, Suninen, Lappi in one and Al-Suwadi, Turan in other...

For me is very clear that the car is not driver alone ;)

[dimviii]

another one nice video with some new interesting spots.
https://youtu.be/wAHnSCN3Rk8

[marcosg]

https://youtu.be/31_hUWpCSzE

sry if it is repeated..

[Mirek]

I keep watching plenty of videos and in all of them I can see pretty crazy driving from Suarez. I wonder how he could make it to the finish :)

[EstWRC]

same could be said about Mikkelsen too...i was so sure Mikkelsen wouldnt come to the end but it still happened. Paddon also had so many lucky moments.

Apart from spectator dying and Lefebvres crash it was a great rally. The fight for 2 place was awesome till the end.

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/uk25pIzV974

[GigiGalliNo1]

The fight for 2 place was awesome till the end.

What our Motorsport is really about! 2nd, 3rd and 4th places!

[GigiGalliNo1]

I can't believe I wrote that haha

Well, least we can say, good to see Ogier winning a round again! How boring, Meeke and Ogier on two wins each and so many other winners.

A great season and I love it. (no sarcasm in this post) =)

[Hartusvuori]

Back home from Trier. Feeling tired a lot after long day yesterday, it starting from leaving Panzerplatte after 8PM on Saturday, having a short sleep, early to Dhrontal and after the stages to airport, just to sit in a plane almost two hours waiting for it to be fixed... Because rallying.

Anyway, fifth consecutive visit to Rallye Deutschland. This year our journey focused solely on the event, no roadtrip prior to event, just straight from the airport to recce SS Freisen. We landed in on Tuesday morning and did Freisen, Bosenberg and Sauertal on Tuesday. On Wednesday we did the vineyard stages Mittelmosel, Dhrontal and Moselland in a row and shakedown and Ollmuth later on. Vineyard stages are quite slow to recce, especially Moselland this year as there were now sign post (taken out after recce) and it took too much map reading to be really able to focus on the stage. We have done several stages on prior years, but never in this extent. We picked up some interesting points balancing on preferences of crash potential and interesting sections to take photos. Afterwards, I should've picked faster points to spectate, actually only super fast as 3rd gear or any lower are very boring to spectate in Germany. Still learning...

The most spectacular place I did was already on shakedown, the super fast left with haybale and several hoooot moments. Soon the stage was stopped due to spectator emergency. That brought a dark cloud over the mood. Things like this just happen, though. Near the end of shakedown I walked to the corner where Abbring hit the curb last year, but it was cleaner this year.

After the shakedown the traditional stop over at service park. It've turned to more commercial over the past few years with more promotional lounges and activities for visitors. I found this positive - manufacturers hopefully feel they get return on their investments. Seeing factory cars being prepared has been made distant, but anything else is still close and intimate. Met some friends and drivers, made it nice stop. Later in the evening we joined the ceremonial start behind Porta Nigra, chatting with several drivers, all happy to stop for a few questions.

I won't go stage by stage, to keep the story short. On Friday we did three stages, on Saturday four stages and on Sunday three stages. Clearly in common with all places was that there were not much other spectators, or at all. On Mittelmosel 1 I hid behind bushes in an absolutely safe place at the corner where Maurin went off. Marshalls must've felt what the f*** when I jumped out of nowhere with tow rope :-) However, cars in vineyard hillsides are extremely heavy to pull back, we would've need two ropes and 20-25 men, and as marshalls were not helping out, Maurin's rally ended there. Marshalls did not (added) even knew how to warn cars properly.

On Ollmuth, the spectator stage, we were on forest right with two of us, two marshalls 30 metres away and two other spectators 60 metres away. Nice and quiet, except cool soundscape with a lot of cars coming regularly. I liked the concept. Same in Power Stage, it was just us and two locals. And we didn't chose place because they would be far from other spectators, it just happened.

Other stages we did were Freisen and Panzerplatte twice and Dhrontal twice. Two cancelled stages were of course disappointing, but things like that happen. I think there were somewhat less people this year. No traffic jams, no spectators on dangerous places apart from few. Sense of safety was far higher than in previous years for me.

I mentioned the need for speed on spectating places earlier. I can't grab why the sense of speed seems lacking from spectator experience. It does not when you are on 5th or 6th gear place, but practically everything slower just doesn't do it for me. On onboards and some fan videos however the speed is definitely there. In short, I should've stayed on vineyards straights rather than anything else.

Competition wise it clearly wasn't all clear for Ogier to grab this. He's specializing on Panzerplatte, though Sordo and Neuville were not that far behind. Everyone else though - let's check the difference from calendar. Big shame Latvala couldn't do one clean stage before retiring. On Rally2 he was not really going anywhere. Lack of WRC crews were just sad. It was over all so soon. WRC2 field had a strong entry, but on stages it was a Kopecky show. Lappi, Suninen, Suarez (had not checked his times, but liked his approach) and Kremer were nice to watch too. Few good crews had an early retirements, so it flattened the race. In general I would've wanted one or two up and coming stars late in the field to be waiting for. Griebel and Tannert were such, but for example DDFT or OAC had no such effect for me this year.

Although I've been bitching here a bit, Rallye Deutschland is very nice event, ever-so well-organised, interesting to due to different character of stages and surfaces, weather changes and small margins for error. The planned change for next year propably takes nothing or not much away from that. New stages are always welcomed!

[ziggysony]

Video WRC Deutschland 2016 enjoy https://youtu.be/ZO68Dj9q0Gw

[dimviii]

https://scontent-frt3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14034942_1654438874885158_3652410232287617750_n.jp g?oh=148578b96885a9429f3a39531a6b1f0a&oe=58528406

[Morte66]

Lots of good videos from this rally. Thanks everybody.

[JoostSchouten]

My video is online! A very fast rally with some spectacular full speed action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjFdA1EcXA

http://i67.tinypic.com/2mzigsg.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOjFdA1EcXA)

[SpeedEstRacing]

video online germany rally.

The program for this video quite large passages with pins, jumps, flat out but also some mistakes and unfortunate crash Quentin Giordano.

good viewing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZDRYtWmGqI

[danon]

Suarez looks like a Torero on the run chased by wild bulls in Pamplona who got away alive in one piece...
close calls compilation >>> https://www.facebook.com/DefiendeLosRallyesvivelo/videos/507917686060959/

[b3637853]

Suarez looks like a Torero on the run chased by wild bulls in Pamplona who got away alive in one piece...
close calls compilation >>> https://www.facebook.com/DefiendeLosRallyesvivelo/videos/507917686060959/

He's not gonna win rallies driving like that, but he certainly will get new fans :)

[Jasper]

Had a nice weekend @ Germany.

We did shakedown / 2x Mittelmosel / 2x Freisen + 2x Panzerplatte long / 2x Dhrontal + powerstage.

http://i63.tinypic.com/b84ahk.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2lszev9.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2v154j9.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/1zl41m1.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/28mny49.jpg

more pics here: https://www.facebook.com/rallyimage/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1389283197750229

[Hartusvuori]

He's not gonna win rallies driving like that, but he certainly will get new fans :)

I renewed my subscription in Germany. :-)

[gorganl2000]

Suarez looks like a Torero on the run chased by wild bulls in Pamplona who got away alive in one piece...
close calls compilation >>> https://www.facebook.com/DefiendeLosRallyesvivelo/videos/507917686060959/

based on that video he just looks plain old dangerous to himself, co-driver, car, spectators, trees, bales, etc.
a tad more caution needs to be exercised...i think he is a much better driver than what he has displayed here

[dimviii]

.i think he is a much better driver than what he has displayed here

yes same impression with me.With fiesta he wasnt driving like that.

[kookie]

Some impressions from past weekend... my first time in Germany. Compared to other rallies it was quite hard or sometimes impossible to get good shots as the spectators areas were quite far from the stages. I am still adding the photos in the albums, enjoy!

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13995570_1199428220078649_7828465398270040740_o.jp g
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14124248_1202725913082213_589558158474385931_o.jpg
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14047303_1202726709748800_796092704325172399_o.jpg
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14054387_1199428086745329_6751754428801933103_o.jp g

I am adding others into the facebook gallery (https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1198728070148664.1073741879.391186094236203&type=3) and on my racemedia.si (http://racemedia.si/gallery/2016/2016Germany) page, feel free to stop by...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

FIA could change Germany's famous Panzerplatte stage after Lefebvre's horrific crash:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125846/fia-probes-panzerplatte-stage-after-crash

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://youtu.be/wRKXVD3HRCA

[stefanvv]

Right, vineyards are much safer than trees, omg.

[liposh]

The safety trend is ...let´s say interesting. After Solberg´s crash nobody said anything, but now everybody wants at least circuit racing safety. And we are talking about same persons who had no problems to drive thru crowd of fans in 80s without saying a word ...kind of hypocrisy ...greetings to Ari :D

[Simmi]

FIA could change Germany's famous Panzerplatte stage after Lefebvre's horrific crash:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125846/fia-probes-panzerplatte-stage-after-crash

Daft really as if anything the hinkelsteins kept Lefebvre on the road for longer in that accident. The damage was all done due to a high-speed impact with a tree. Which can happen all over the world - it's not unique to Baumholder.

[Rallyper]

It´s not Hinkelsteins. It´s the increasing speed which is the problem. Will be even higher next year.

And that´s what everybody want.

[AL14]

Lol. So is ok to give more bhp to cars and go at faster speed between trees but it's not ok to have two rocks on a couple of corners.
Those men really lacks logic most of the times

[N.O.T]

Lol. So is ok to give more bhp to cars and go at faster speed between trees but it's not ok to have two rocks on a couple of corners.
Those men really lacks logic most of the times

Hilkensteins are unnecessary danger.

[Jasper]

Hilkensteins are unnecessary danger.

Rallying is unnecessary danger.

[Rallyper]

Rallying is unnecessary danger.

Everything is unnecessary danger, however there are degrees.

[N.O.T]

Rallying is unnecessary danger.

yes, but its a choice, Hilkensteins are not.

[Sladden]

It´s not Hinkelsteins. It´s the increasing speed which is the problem. Will be even higher next year.

And that´s what everybody want.

Nah just reduce grip and make the cars LOOK fast instead of "on rails REALLY fast".

[Franky]

yes, but its a choice, Hilkensteins are not.

Of course they are. Don't hit them, if you don't like them.

[EightGear]

For N.O.T.

https://youtu.be/Njpe4y16Z3o

[N.O.T]

For N.O.T.

https://youtu.be/Njpe4y16Z3o

http://i.imgur.com/ZGMEwFr.gif

[AL14]

Hilkensteins are unnecessary danger.

More BHP are as much unnecessary and it is a choice as well

[N.O.T]

More BHP are as much unnecessary

If there is a motorsport hell in afterlife you just got a lifetime pass.... kid.

[Mk2 RS2000]

Rallying is unnecessary danger.

Going to bed is an unnecessary danger, a very large portion of the worlds population die in a bed.

[Nelly]

How difficult is it to reach the non spectator areas of panzerplatte, forest harping etc. Also talking about safety where the hell did they get the marshalls this year. Every YouTube video has them standing in escape roads and outside of fast corners. Where can I get one of them car proof yellow jackets

[N.O.T]

How difficult is it to reach the non spectator areas of panzerplatte, forest harping etc. Also talking about safety where the hell did they get the marshalls this year. Every YouTube video has them standing in escape roads and outside of fast corners. Where can I get one of them car proof yellow jackets

it does not matter where they have the cars, if the escape roads are going to be used they are going to use move them since they are close by.

[AL14]

If there is a motorsport hell in afterlife you just got a lifetime pass.... kid.

You too you're lacking logic here.

[EightGear]

You too you're lacking logic here.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160825/ed2cbbfecb754a88cb5dd4078620057e.jpg

[Jasper]

Going to bed is an unnecessary danger, a very large portion of the worlds population die in a bed.

You're correct.

I didn't remember anyone asking guardrails in the Welsh forests achter Parks tragic crash. The risk is everywhere.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

The drivers know the risks... the hinkelsteins are not a secret or hidden... so the drivers must simply drive accordingly.

This is what makes WRC rallying what it is... a variety of tests and risks to be calculated.

If everywhere was made super-safe the drivers wouldnt want to drive and we wouldnt want to watch.

No risk, no reward.

[Simmi]

N.O.T is right here in the sense that, because hinkelsteins are man-made objects, they become an easy target for what the FIA/WRC Promoter may see as a "quick win" when it comes to safety.

I'm not in favour of removing them or the Panzerplatte stages at all - it's just not that difficult to see how people's minds work in the year 2016. Better to be actively seen as doing something (*hey look over here we are fixing this problem*) while as everyone has mentioned, the 2017 cars are getting a whole lot quicker.

[Mad cat jnr]

N.O.T is right here


Go and wash your mouth out with soap!!

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqykwGCWIAAa0zP.jpg

[rallyfiend]

Oh dear God.

That's the best PR stunt they could come up with?

[Rallyper]

From the start in this thread we (me) questioned the increased speed. And also earlier the way tarmac rallies have developed. Hinkelsteins are not safe as well, but in Lefebvre case they probably saved him from even worse outcome.

My worry is when the monster cars also called a new GrB era will cause the disaster we not want.

Solution is changes in grip an maybe also speed oc in combination with maybe cheaper and less technical cars (i.e. why not R5 in WRC?)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Oh dear God.

That's the best PR stunt they could come up with?

Stunt ? What's wrong with the ERC drivers sending their best wishes to two of there former colleagues ?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

From the start in this thread we (me) questioned the increased speed. And also earlier the way tarmac rallies have developed. Hinkelsteins are not safe as well, but in Lefebvre case they probably saved him from even worse outcome.

My worry is when the monster cars also called a new GrB era will cause the disaster we not want.

Solution is changes in grip an maybe also speed oc in combination with maybe cheaper and less technical cars (i.e. why not R5 in WRC?)

I dont see the increase in speed making much difference... if a current WRC car went into spectators it would already cause carnage. At 150kph or 200kph its still a disaster.

[Rallyper]

I dont see the increase in speed making much difference... if a current WRC car went into spectators it would already cause carnage. At 150kph or 200kph its still a disaster.

150 or 200kph makes BIG difference on impact, regardning driver and codriver. Make your physics.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

150 or 200kph makes BIG difference on impact, regardning driver and codriver. Make your physics.

When you mention 'new Group B' and a 'disaster we dont want' I assumed you meant a crash involving spectators...

The new cars will be massively safer than the original Group B cars which were deathtraps.

[Mirek]

Let's not exaggerate. The new WRC cars are not going to be new gr.B.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Let's not exaggerate. The new WRC cars are not going to be new gr.B.

Exactly.

And a big company like VW for example wouldn't want to be associated with such a thing..

[stefanvv]

Let's not exaggerate. The new WRC cars are not going to be new gr.B.

Probably Rallyper meant in terms of lot of power. We should know what Group B means in terms of specification.

[Mirek]

Times changed. That days when gr.B cars had 450 Hp, the common cars used to have 60-80 Hp. Today everybody can buy a car with hundreds of Hp for relatively small money (at least used ones) and nobody is going to be astonished by 400 Hp figure anymore. It was something completely crazy in 1985.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It wasnt the big power that was dangerous even then, it was the lightweight construction and placement of the fuel tank etc.

And the lack of all crowd control in many countries.

[Mirek]

Yes, You are right. What I meant was that the main feature of the Gr.B was that it was something unbeliavably mad and crazy. You can't achieve such wow factor today.

[stefanvv]

Times changed. That days when gr.B cars had 450 Hp, the common cars used to have 60-80 Hp. Today everybody can buy a car with hundreds of Hp for relatively small money (at least used ones) and nobody is going to be astonished by 400 Hp figure anymore. It was something completely crazy in 1985.

It's not about the numbers, they aren't something special. But the jump from current power can be a factor in getting used to.

[Mirek]

Is 20% more power so radical change? I don't think so. The cars will be faster mainly in cornering speed thanks to the active center diffs and the aero package but not that much on straights (where some of the power will be spent on the extended aerodynamic drag).

[stefanvv]

I don't think it is either, but some drivers can find it difficult to adjust. Just an assumption.
Anyway dangerous crashes can happen with any rally car, no matter ho many hp it has. It is about the safety measures regulations are taken, not the speed/hp.

[N.O.T]

20% as a number is not that radical, but if you take into account that the cars are already very very fast 20% increase is a HUGE number.

For me the more the better, there is no such thing as too much power in motorsports.

[Mirek]

I believe the last 2.0T WRC cars had around 370-380 Hp and 800-900 Nm and nobody seemed to think it was too much when there was 300 Hp written everywhere...

[Fabian Gaukler]

WRC Germany 2016 Shakedown and Day 1 action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwDlQdOpiJs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiL5ty0zoyo

[jacko]

Hilkensteins are unnecessary danger.
Never expected but i follow N.O.T. here.
The solution i think is to use car-tires (or something like that) around the Hilkensteins on places were it could be really dangerous like the (fast) place of the crash of Lefebvre. So in this corner you only put them on/at the last four or five ones. You can't make rally a safe heaven but you have to look what it's possible to make it safe were it can, unnatural roadchicanes is also a possibility.

[marcosg]

maybe we should organize events on a dragster straight with 2k with plenty of barriers... this should be safe enough...

[N.O.T]

maybe we should organize events on a dragster straight with 2k with plenty of barriers... this should be safe enough...

its not about safety its about unnecessary danger, for example lets say you have a lake on the outside of a corner, that would be fine for rallying since its an acceptable anger, but if that lake was the home of piranhas then that would be an unnecessary danger. Remove the piranhas and keep the lake.

[Franky]

its not about safety its about unnecessary danger, for example lets say you have a lake on the outside of a corner, that would be fine for rallying since its an acceptable anger, but if that lake was the home of piranhas then that would be an unnecessary danger. Remove the piranhas and keep the lake.

First year you remove the fish, the second year the lake, the third year every solid item close to the road, fourth year you are driving in a parking lot.

[jacko]

First year you remove the fish, the second year the lake, the third year every solid item close to the road, fourth year you are driving in a parking lot.
Drama queen...

[N.O.T]

First year you remove the fish, the second year the lake, the third year every solid item close to the road, fourth year you are driving in a parking lot.

Yes if you are like yourself you do that, but if know how to put things into perspective you can leave the nature of the sport intact and make it safer as well.

[jacko]

Yes if you are like yourself you do that, but if know how to put things into perspective you can leave the nature of the sport intact and make it safer as well.
Fully agree again.
About lakes, well it reminds me of last year Mexico and the crash of Tanak, i think also here they (the organisation and/or the rally safety-responsible within the FIA) had to put something like a big barrier (or a unnature chicane so the speed was less) so that no car could end up in the lake because both men had really lucky because we all saw how fast the car went under and we all know we people are not made for living under water...

[Fast Eddie WRC]

It's up to crews to recce the stages and drive accordingly.. its not like hinkelseins pop up out of nowhere. They are a known danger.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Put barriers along a lake and drivers think they are safer so go faster and crash into a tree... a harder impact than water.

[N.O.T]

Is your every day life as hard as it is in here ?

[jacko]

It's up to crews to recce the stages and drive accordingly.. its not like hinkelseins pop up out of nowhere. They are a known danger.
Lake, river, hinkelsteins, trees, rocks, spectators, weather, cows it's all part of the rally and the stages but if you can build some extra safety who couldn't agree with that. To bring some extra safety that doesn't kill the rallystage nor the whole rally itself, no it safes the rally-sport in general and in the end lifes of people. No rally-driver wants to be killed in a accident but even the best rally-drivers make mistakes for whatever reason and that's a fact. So if we can help to make the sport a bit safer including the spectators what's wrong with that.

Are you so stupid to ignore that or didn't you have your pill today ?

[N.O.T]

Are you so stupid to ignore that or didn't you have your pill today ?

I am afraid its his normal condition, but no need for personal insults.

[Oliverk]

i think that N.O.T is kidnapped and it is his twin brother speaking here. The one who lives in land of peace and love. And likes knitting and potato farming.

[Rallyper]

Lake, river, hinkelsteins, trees, rocks, spectators, weather, cows it's all part of the rally and the stages but if you can build some extra safety who couldn't agree with that. To bring some extra safety that doesn't kill the rallystage nor the whole rally itself, no it safes the rally-sport in general and in the end lifes of people. No rally-driver wants to be killed in a accident but even the best rally-drivers make mistakes for whatever reason and that's a fact. So if we can help to make the sport a bit safer including the spectators what's wrong with that.

Are you so stupid to ignore that or didn't you have your pill today ?

It´s the speed that kills. Pls remember that. Best thing WRC-rallying with 100hp cars and simple summer pattern tyres, but as long as that will not happen N.O.T. has the very point in this discussion.

[AL14]

hps are a variable in a safety discussion, it's impossible to deny it, the slower the safer. But if power is one of the many variable, the nature of the sport should be the constant. To me it's important to have a number of hp that is the safer possible but that will preserve the nature of the sport.
The hinkelsteins are some rocks in a couple of german stages, if they go in another place without them is ok to me. But let me say that it is a bit strange that some try to avoid some rocks in a couple of corners and some other add speed to already fast cars.

[stefanvv]

The hinkelsteins are some rocks in a couple of german stages, if they go in another place without them is ok to me. But let me say that it is a bit strange that some try to avoid some rocks in a couple of corners and some other add speed to already fast cars.

It's difficult to find the right balance between hp and safety. Any car going with 200 km/h can be dangerous, but the more hp, the more wow effect. As for hinkelsteins they're just part of the scenery at Panzerplatte, nothing more.

[AL14]

It's difficult to find the right balance between hp and safety.

nobody said it's easy :)


As for hinkelsteins they're just part of the scenery at Panzerplatte, nothing more.

Exactly.

[stefanvv]

Exactly.

Now imagine they cancel the Volcano stage from Azores because it could actually erupt.

[Franky]

Yes if you are like yourself you do that, but if know how to put things into perspective you can leave the nature of the sport intact and make it safer as well.

Poor old man. When making something safer, you can't forget the mentality of a driver who is racing. If it feels safer, they will be going faster attempting to squeeze the very last out of as many turns as possible.

Let's take the famous Valtra tractors from Harju stage (Finland) and bales from Poland and Germany. Drivers said the tractors are too dangerous and should be replaced with bales that are safer. Did anyone hit the tractor? No. Now think what has happened with the bales in Germany and Poland. They are like punching bags that get no respect from the drivers. They hit, push or kiss them. If there's no natural danger instinct kicking in, there's absolutely nothing holding them back.

You can put the crews in 100bhp cars that are running on standard summer tire pattern. If it is a race, the top guys will be gunning for it anyway. And if they are going for it, there's absolutely nothing that could save them from a mistake that could lead into a crash. And freak accidents happen.

[AL14]

Now imagine they cancel the Volcano stage from Azores because it could actually erupt.

If they would find I reason to cancel it is not because of the eruption. :)

[AL14]

If it feels safer, they will be going faster attempting to squeeze the very last out of as many turns as possible.

Let's take the famous Valtra tractors from Harju stage (Finland) and bales from Poland and Germany. Drivers said the tractors are too dangerous and should be replaced with bales that are safer. Did anyone hit the tractor? No.


I hope you will never have any safety task or responsibility in any kind of context or scenario :)

[stefanvv]

If they would find I reason to cancel it is not because of the eruption. :)

Of course not, but they could, couldn't they;)

[Franky]

I hope you will never have any safety task or responsibility in any kind of context or scenario :)

Oh, I'd bring gravel traps and grass back to F1 tracks.

Tho would had preferred, if you had kept the whole paragraph in the quote not just the first half of it.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Poor old man. When making something safer, you can't forget the mentality of a driver who is racing. If it feels safer, they will be going faster attempting to squeeze the very last out of as many turns as possible.

Let's take the famous Valtra tractors from Harju stage (Finland) and bales from Poland and Germany. Drivers said the tractors are too dangerous and should be replaced with bales that are safer. Did anyone hit the tractor? No. Now think what has happened with the bales in Germany and Poland. They are like punching bags that get no respect from the drivers. They hit, push or kiss them. If there's no natural danger instinct kicking in, there's absolutely nothing holding them back.

You can put the crews in 100bhp cars that are running on standard summer tire pattern. If it is a race, the top guys will be gunning for it anyway. And if they are going for it, there's absolutely nothing that could save them from a mistake that could lead into a crash. And freak accidents happen.

This is spot on. The rest of you are in denial.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Are you so stupid to ignore that or didn't you have your pill today ?

Who are you, Mr Know-it-all on rallying.. stop being pathetic. No wonder you have no 'likes' for anyone...

If you start taking things out of a stage that have been there for years that everyone knows, then it's the thin end of the wedge and rallying will be neutered...

If the world's best rally drivers arent asking for such changes, why are you ?

[jacko]

Who are you, Mr Know-it-all on rallying.. stop being pathetic. No wonder you have no 'likes' for anyone...
If you start taking things out of a stage that have been there for years that everyone knows, then it's the thin end of the wedge and rallying will be neutered...
If the world's best rally drivers arent asking for such changes, why are you ?

Glad i've no likes, what are we talking about man. I'm talking about a seriuos issue called safety and you about how many likes ?!? Funny poor guy, it's says enough about you.
Oh and some quotes from a rally driver, maybe you know him, Sebastien Ogier: he encouraged the FIA's investigation about the Hinkelsteins on stage Panzerplatte saying:
"We all know that zero risk will never happen in rallying and, of course, these hinkelsteins are one of hardest things that we can hit," he said.
"They are never moving and that's definitely bad for us.
"Maybe an idea is to try to protect them with a wall of some sort. It's not so many sections, it's just a few where the speed is very high - these are the dangerous places.

If the world's best rally drivers are asking for such changes, not many but on the real dangerous places, why don't you ?

[stefanvv]

Ogier is not talking for himself. He handles Panzerplatte just fine!

[Toyoda]

Thing with Ogier is if you ask him a question he will answer it, he will say exactly what he feels, its a good thing, no PR bull

[janvanvurpa]

This is spot on. The rest of you are in denial.


It's sooooo I don't know what to try and counter any non-competitor when THEY start getting not just interested but in a lather about anything conceivably related to the general idea of safety!!!!!!:eek:

I spent a couple decades not slamming some poncy cars with incredible cages into things---I was busy slamming my body into things....Odd thing is that I was never asked if I needed warning not to hit all the various BIG rocks or rock walls or big trees sometimes just quite literally 3-4 inches away from the handle bars or footpegs...

I have this vision of the Safety Screamers thinking perhaps we should walk slowly thru every meter of every SS and somebody---and a priest with some boys with the smoking urns following saying " (Mumble mumble, some indistinct Latin) "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS tree---don't hit it...."
"Protect us from THIS house---don't hit it...."
"Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...."

Some crazy slow procession of the sinners..

I wish maybe somebody would have maybe occasionally reminded by not to hit the ground so often--especially with my poor head.

But oddly, once I started doing Stage rally, without anybody ever mentioning it, I never hit any of the huge trucks or road graders or water trucks or other big nasty bright yellow equipment the logging companies around here leave out in the woods...And oddly I didn't hit other cars on transits, or trees or houses either...

Without any special warning..
I wonder if I'm a genius or

maybe warnings and worry at some point are absurdities...because they are so fawkin obvious to anybody actually doing this sport IF they have an few ounces of brains.


(I did hit the ground with the roof a couple of times, still working on that:rolleyes:)

[Mk2 RS2000]

It´s the speed that kills..

Incorrect, it is the sudden stop that kills.

[Rally Power]

In these kind of shocking accidents we always try to find something, or someone, to blame for, sometimes forgetting that accidents are a part of the sport. On this one, the most important factor has also been forgotten: Lefebvre and Moreau injuries result from their car hitting a tree, not from hitting hinkelsnteins.

Even if hinkelsteins are artificial and may look a bit frightening (probably organizers will now eagerly place some tires on the messier spots), it’s also true that they’re quite similar to many natural obstacles that can be found alongside rally roads and no one, in his right mind, cares to remove.

Btw, as some of you already mentioned, the speed increase on WRC stages is another factor to look for. It raises a paradox, probably even more noticeable next year: as cars becomes faster, organizers must work to make roads slower…

[Rally Power]

Let's take the famous Valtra tractors from Harju stage (Finland) and bales from Poland and Germany. Drivers said the tractors are too dangerous and should be replaced with bales that are safer. Did anyone hit the tractor?

The tractors in Finland were a totally different matter and the perfect illustration of a brainless rally innovation: chicanes are supposed to make stages safer, not more dangerous.

Besides, if we start to pick bizarre obstacles in order to get average Joe’s attention, we’ll end turning Rally into a Circus or a sort of Mad Max races (for that purpose Gymkhanas, Drift and RX were already invented…).

[Rallyper]

The tractors in Finland were a totally different matter and the perfect illustration of a brainless rally innovation: chicanes are supposed to make stages safer, not more dangerous.

Besides, if we start to pick bizarre obstacles in order to get average Joe’s attention, we’ll end turning Rally into a Circus or a sort of Mad Max races (for that purpose Gymkhanas, Drift and RX were already invented…).

The Valtra trctor chikanes was on a Micky Mouse stage specially made for average Joe. I can´t understand why it´s a topic. Hit the tractor and you are out. Your choice as a driver. Besides it was not in high speed.

And Valtra did put some amount of money in the event. So ... ?

[pantealex]

The Valtra trctor chikanes was on a Micky Mouse stage specially made for average Joe. I can´t understand why it´s a topic. Hit the tractor and you are out. Your choice as a driver. Besides it was not in high speed.

And Valtra did put some amount of money in the event. So ... ?

They tested that place before with speed radar, maximum speed was 47km/h

[Franky]

The tractors in Finland were a totally different matter and the perfect illustration of a brainless rally innovation: chicanes are supposed to make stages safer, not more dangerous.

I'll use a different analogy then. You wouldn't mind hitting a very young tree (minimal damage to the car), if there was a chance you could go faster at that turn. But would you have the same approach to the corner if that tree was much older and stronger?

[Rally Power]

And Valtra did put some amount of money in the event. So ... ?

…no matters what, it still was an avoidable risk!

Btw, what could be next?...

http://dieselsuppliersindubai.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Transportation_pic_1.jpg
https://www.liebherr.com/CMS/images/MobileCranes_Showcase.png
http://www.diseno-art.com/news_content/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Skoda-icecream-2.jpg

[danon]

safety to some - danger to another

tank stopper - car killer >>> https://youtu.be/9GVZPQpTVJ8

http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ewrc.cz%2Fimages%2F2010 %2Fnews%2Fhinkelstein.jpg

[Mintexmemory]

It's sooooo I don't know what to try and counter any non-competitor when THEY start getting not just interested but in a lather about anything conceivably related to the general idea of safety!!!!!!:eek:

I spent a couple decades not slamming some poncy cars with incredible cages into things---I was busy slamming my body into things....Odd thing is that I was never asked if I needed warning not to hit all the various BIG rocks or rock walls or big trees sometimes just quite literally 3-4 inches away from the handle bars or footpegs...

I have this vision of the Safety Screamers thinking perhaps we should walk slowly thru every meter of every SS and somebody---and a priest with some boys with the smoking urns following saying " (Mumble mumble, some indistinct Latin) "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...." "Protect us from THIS tree---don't hit it...."
"Protect us from THIS house---don't hit it...."
"Protect us from THIS rock---don't hit it...."

Some crazy slow procession of the sinners..

I wish maybe somebody would have maybe occasionally reminded by not to hit the ground so often--especially with my poor head.

But oddly, once I started doing Stage rally, without anybody ever mentioning it, I never hit any of the huge trucks or road graders or water trucks or other big nasty bright yellow equipment the logging companies around here leave out in the woods...And oddly I didn't hit other cars on transits, or trees or houses either...

Without any special warning..
I wonder if I'm a genius or

maybe warnings and worry at some point are absurdities...because they are so fawkin obvious to anybody actually doing this sport IF they have an few ounces of brains.


(I did hit the ground with the roof a couple of times, still working on that:rolleyes:)

Constant blows to the head? mmmm... that explains a lot!

[N.O.T]

safety to some - danger to another

tank stopper - car killer >>> https://youtu.be/9GVZPQpTVJ8

http://www.motoringalliance.com/forums/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ewrc.cz%2Fimages%2F2010 %2Fnews%2Fhinkelstein.jpg

And the darwin award goes to...

Of course i would not expect better from a person that visits a WRC event to take "pro" artistic pictures of hairpins.

Useless masterless dogs with no use to society

[chris_bakelas]

A small onboard video from Suarez.
Nice onboard cam.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BJ3bkiwhA8F/

Στλθηκε απ το LG-D802 μου χρησιμοποιντας Tapatalk

[itix]

All this hp vs safety debate is ignoring the fact that the increase in power is expected around 20%. That will not result in a 20% speed increase...

The place where Lefebvre crashed they are probably going to do 175 km/h rather than 165 km/h... If even that because they will likely have to brake/lift before the corner next year.

We won't see cars go insane speeds next year... Probably maximum 10% increase at the end of the straights.

Roll cage safety has massively increased since the day of group b, we have flexible fuel tanks, strengthening triangles everywhere, hans devices, six point harnesses (or 5, can't remember right now). The biggest issue is impact from the sides still, like what Michael Park died from... And that's an issue regardless of speed. If you go sideways into a tree with your road car at 70 you are likely to get killed too.

The slight increase in power and control in corners is not the difference between life and death in a crash.

Putting tires on the Hinkelsteins is not going to help either as that would just act as a ramp to propel the car into the forest.

What they should do is look at good natural ways to keep the speed down in dangerous high speed areas. Not another hay bale chicane but some neater solution.

[Mirek]

All this hp vs safety debate is ignoring the fact that the increase in power is expected around 20%. That will not result in a 20% speed increase...

The place where Lefebvre crashed they are probably going to do 175 km/h rather than 165 km/h... If even that because they will likely have to brake/lift before the corner next year.

We won't see cars go insane speeds next year... Probably maximum 10% increase at the end of the straights.

They won't go much faster on straights (also thanks to higher drag). They will go reasonably faster through corners. That is obviously more important for crash situation that the speed on straights which isn't that important in my opinion.

[itix]

The severity of a crash is determined by how fast the object at speed (driver and car) is halted, and we are not talking a 50% speed increase in the corners here. Probably maximum 10% if even that. Wk=mv²/ 2 gives an increase in kinetic energy of 21% if the increased speed is 10%. This is not what determine life or death in a crash situation.

Also with R2-power and WRC safety you could kill someone in a sideways impact in finland towards a tree... or say that the same car in a high speed event hits a rock on the inside of the corner and it throws the car on it's side into a tree, just so that it hits the windshield.
I can guarantee that will be bye bye both driver and codriver considering how much damage there was to that area of Camili's car in Monte this year from a relatively low speed impact.

The increased speed is not what will make or break the safety situation.

[tommeke_B]

Actually for side-impact the cars will be safer. According to Sven Smeets (in an interview with autonews magazine), inside the new cars there's more space between the seats of the drivers and the doors.

[Mirek]

I assume also the aerodynamic door sills are made of strong carbon and thus bring something to the side impact safety. Still I'm surprised that in all the prototypes where we could see inside there was pretty common rollcage cross in the door area.


The severity of a crash is determined by how fast the object at speed (driver and car) is halted, and we are not talking a 50% speed increase in the corners here. Probably maximum 10% if even that. Wk=mv²/ 2 gives an increase in kinetic energy of 21% if the increased speed is 10%. This is not what determine life or death in a crash situation.

Also with R2-power and WRC safety you could kill someone in a sideways impact in finland towards a tree... or say that the same car in a high speed event hits a rock on the inside of the corner and it throws the car on it's side into a tree, just so that it hits the windshield.
I can guarantee that will be bye bye both driver and codriver considering how much damage there was to that area of Camili's car in Monte this year from a relatively low speed impact.

The increased speed is not what will make or break the safety situation.

I don't argue about some huge increase of risk with the new cars (although it's pretty clear there is an increase). I just wanted to point out that speaking about the speed on straights is missleading.

[itix]

I assume also the aerodynamic door sills are made of strong carbon and thus bring something to the side impact safety. Still I'm surprised that the all in prototypes where we could see inside there was pretty common rollcage cross in the door area.



I don't argue about some huge increase of risk with the new cars (although it's pretty clear there is an increase). I just wanted to point out that speaking about the speed on straights is missleading.
I don't think the increase in speed is a major factor in the safety debate.

The increase of speed is so small that the factors in the "big game" is almost irrelevant.

You can achieve much more by choosing stages well and also adapting stages.

That was what I was trying to say.

[dimviii]

Jari-Matti Latvala will tackle the upcoming Tour de Corse - Rallye de France (29 Sept - 2 Oct) without the security of a spare gearbox after one of his two allocated units failed at ADAC Rallye Deutschland for reasons that remain a mystery.

Latvala retired his Volkswagen Polo R just seven kilometres into the opening stage in Germany. He rejoined the next day and completed the rally using his spare gearbox. Under FIA component pairing regulations, which limit each top driver to just two gearboxes for the rounds in Germany and Corsica, the Finn must rely solely on this replacement unit in Corsica.

Meanwhile, the same regulations have prevented Volkswagen from opening the failed unit to investigate what went wrong, adding to concerns that the same problem could strike again.

Latvala first noticed the problem with the original gearbox when he was braking hard for a corner. "I went from sixth to fifth okay, but when I selected fourth with the [steering wheel] paddles the gearbox didn't shift down," he told wrc.com.

"I tried the emergency lever, and managed to get the lower gears, but when I tried to go back to the paddleshift it didn't work. This time the manual lever felt very solid - and I pushed it so hard it broke. I tried again on the paddle, but I heard a bang and I knew the gears were badly connected. There was a strong smell of oil and I stopped the car."

Team boss at the time Jost Capito promised an investigation to find out exactly what happened, in order to avoid similar damage occurring in the future. However, the earliest this post mortem can take place will be after the next round.

"The problem is the gearbox is sealed and linked to the rally in Corsica so we will not be able to inspect it before then," the team's technical director Francois-Xavier Demaison told wrc.com

"At this stage we don't know what the issue is. The gearbox was freshly rebuilt for this rally and there's no reason we can see why this should have happened. It came as a surprise.

"We have been through a long process of validation and we haven't experienced a similar problem, so we really hope it's a one off," he added.

http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/september-2016/latvala-gearbox/page/3864--12-12-.html