Vodafone Rally de Portugal 2015

[GigiGalliNo1]

Where did Khalid loose time on this final stage?!!??! :(

[MartijnS]

Everywhere?

[AL14]

Because nobody knows which result is correct. One example for now - SS 9 and Eric Camilli - on WRC.com 22:19.9, on official pages 18:30.9 ; so, what is correct?

Lol

[noel157]

Coverage not bad, not great but ok. Better than nothing.

[noel157]

Bobby lucky.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Everywhere?

:D:D:D

Joking!

[stefanvv]

Because nobody knows which result is correct. One example for now - SS 9 and Eric Camilli - on WRC.com 22:19.9, on official pages 18:30.9 ; so, what is correct?

may be it's a lottery, guess the right time and You win some prize.

[stefanvv]

Where did Khalid loose time on this final stage?!!??! :(

searching for dunes.

[Ucci]

Kubica finished rally !!!!

[noel157]

Kubica finished rally !!!!

New team "structure" ?

[GigiGalliNo1]

New car, make it to the end of each rally regardless of positions?????

[stefanvv]

wow Meeke made it on the 2nd part

[Ucci]

Sordo, missing less than 1second after three days of rallying....Ostberg made it....

[noel157]

Overall a good event for Meeke. Still learning, still maturing.

[jonkka]

Sordo, missing less than 1second after three days of rallying....Ostberg made it....

What?
Edit: Ostberg did what?

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Shame Meeke missed the podium but a good display to consolidate his confidence.

[stefanvv]

oh my, Ogier smashed

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Yes Jari-Matti !! Winner again !! :)

[Ucci]

What?
Edit: Ostberg did what?

Ostberg retained his position in front of Dani. But just 0,7 sec separates them.

[noel157]

Well done Latvala.

[AndyRAC]

Well done Jari-Matti & Miikka. A VW 1-2-3, and a PowerStage 1-2-3, if that's not domination, then I don't know what is.
A good solid drive from Kris, best of the rest.

[jonkka]

Ostberg retained his position in front of Dani. But just 0,7 sec separates them.

You're looking stage times. In overall, Dani is 4,3 secs ahead of Ostberg, at least on wrc.com.

[EstWRC]

Great job Latvala and Tänak! pickem result gonna be great :P

[stefanvv]

Sun 11:52 - SS16: Ogier
A huge final stage push! He's a full 4sec quicker than Mikkelsen but it's surely second place for the champ. Ogier however is out of the car and on the roof in celebration . And he's in a mischievous mood. "I know it will be a happy event for some people - some people will be happy because the best didn't win."

[stefanvv]

Well done Latvala. A deserved and flawless win. May be Ogier took it little easy at moments, may be not.

edit: but perhaps Latvala also took it little easy at the beginning, so it's 50:50

[Mintexmemory]

Congratulations Jari-Matti - Hope Sardinia goes as well.

Soooo I got 2 things wrong: Mikkelsen did beat Meeke and the Champ did get into the top 3

However someone else, who will be nameless, got (at least) 3 things wrong (to the extreme):
Latvala showed he will not be competing at Crufts in the near future!!!!!
Ogier did not win.
VW clearly did not issue team orders
;-)

[noel157]

Hope the chopper pilot knew the height of the turbines, looked very dangerous at times.

[AL14]

Great job Jari Matti. He deserved a smile finally!

[RS]

Good time by Lappi on the final stage. Solid start for the Fabia R5 in WRC, maybe expecting more but at the end of the day they are the first two R5 home.

[AL14]

And now be prepared to a three weeks of moaning like there's no tomorrow

[GigiGalliNo1]

Latvala should just give up and move sports (some would say)..

[Rallyper]

Latvala did what he had to do. And he knew that for him self. Good performance today on long stage.

Big congrat to JML and Mika.

[Mintexmemory]

And now be prepared to a three weeks of moaning like there's no tomorrow

I doubt that, if the Champ finishes in the top 3 on all remaining events he will be champ again. If he loses the lead through a DNF (seriously is any one going to get within 28 points?) then he won't be first on the road, his nearest rival will be - cue taking back the series lead again.
Still why let facts get in the way of prejudices !!!

More importantly we must see where our schedules for 10-15 /6 coincide because I am really looking forward to the mirto!! See you in Sarde

[Ucci]

Big congrats to Jari M.Latvala! I didn't expect a victory from him, after disastrous season he had I thought he won't be pshicialy prepared to fight at the top. Even Ogier was surprised about team mate speed.
For me a positive surprise also young Mikkelsen, no mistakes, solid speed, can challenge Ogier in the future.
Meeke-he is missing so little to be in a contact with VW. But I supose he decided for a safe mode, didn't risk and the fourth place is still a nice result. Tanak also on a safe mode, nothing else was a choice...
Hyundai:except Paddon a race to forget for them.
M-Sport and a new car: sholud be better than the old one, also both private drivers Kubica and Prokop without technical troubles finished the rally and got some points.

[AL14]

I doubt that, if the Champ finishes in the top 3 on all remaining events he will be champ again. If he loses the lead through a DNF (seriously is any one going to get within 28 points?) then he won't be first on the road, his nearest rival will be - cue taking back the series lead again.
Still why let facts get in the way of prejudices !!!

More importantly we must see where our schedules for 10-15 /6 coincide because I am really looking forward to the mirto!! See you in Sarde

He will moan no matter everything you said. he has done it even when being first was an advantage...Now that it has affected him I predict a lot of rain near Gap.

Regarding the mirto I've warned my parents to keep one bottle for me ;)

[Mirek]

Meeke-he is missing so little to be in a contact with VW. But I supose he decided for a safe mode, didn't risk and the fourth place is still a nice result.

Somebody said he had broken rear anti-roll bar so he could hardly go faster.


also both private drivers Kubica and Prokop without technical troubles finished the rally and got some points.

Prokop had a lot of technical problems. I think only today was without them. He said everything was too much in a hurry and the car was prepared in the last minute before the rally without any test and therefore a lot of issues appeared.

[stefanvv]

Big congrats to Jari M.Latvala! I didn't expect a victory from him, after disastrous season he had I thought he won't be pshicialy prepared to fight at the top. Even Ogier was surprised about team mate speed.
For me a positive surprise also young Mikkelsen, no mistakes, solid speed, can challenge Ogier in the future.
Meeke-he is missing so little to be in a contact with VW. But I supose he decided for a safe mode, didn't risk and the fourth place is still a nice result. Tanak also on a safe mode, nothing else was a choice...
Hyundai:except Paddon a race to forget for them.
M-Sport and a new car: sholud be better than the old one, also both private drivers Kubica and Prokop without technical troubles finished the rally and got some points.

Well summed up, Mirek already said what was wrong with Meeke today. The new Ford looks promising as engine torque, I still they had to do something about those suspension breaks.

[6789]

Well done Jari-Matti - hopefully this is the start of a great summer for him!

[Ucci]

What I have summed up about Prokop - he had difficulties with under&over steering. But this is just a matter of preparations and test, has nothiing to do with technical side(engine,electrics, gearbox....).

[Mirek]

What I have summed up about Prokop - he had difficulties with under&over steering. But this is just a matter of preparations and test, has nothiing to do with technical side(engine,electrics, gearbox....).

I have no idea what You have summed up and how but it doesn't change reality... Especially first day was full of problems mainly with brakes.

[Fast Eddie WRC]

Real shame for Meeke breaking his RARB... must make a missive difference to the handling and his confidence. I uprated the RARB on my Focus ST and the improvement was huge, so cant imagine a car with a broken one !

[N.O.T]

Nice to see that VW let them fight, did not expect that for sure and also did not expect that Latvala could take the win. Lets see if Latvala can keep this momentum.

[Kielder]

I was one of the few spectators who thought that it was better watching Vieira do Minho once than Fafe twice. I realized that in the WRC is difficult watching something better than the jumps of Sordo and Meeke that I could see on the Rally Sprint. These are the pics of Vieira do Minho:

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01698_zps0vcyo4jv.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01698_zps0vcyo4jv.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01753_zpsb4q9ob6j.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01753_zpsb4q9ob6j.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01819_zps7unbiyqy.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01819_zps7unbiyqy.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01862_zpsrzzggcri.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01862_zpsrzzggcri.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01876_zpseu8jdmmy.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01876_zpseu8jdmmy.jpg.html)

[Fast Eddie WRC]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFxY4N5WgAAS6RP.jpg

[AL14]

I was one of the few spectators who thought that it was better watching Vieira do Minho once than Fafe twice. I realized that in the WRC is difficult watching something better than the jumps of Sordo and Meeke that I could see on the Rally Sprint. These are the pics of Vieira do Minho:

Wow, really wonderful spots to see rally cars, and very nice pictures as well.

[dimviii]

congrats to Latvala-Antilla for a well deserved win.
Was waiting Ogier to push till last km ,but he didnt.Strange while he has a good margin at championship points against Latvala his main rival,and was pushing hard 2 1/2 days for the win.
His comments at power stage stop are laughable(nothing new)
the nice surprise imho was Mikkelsen.Was very close/on par ,when Latvala Ogier pushed.
Not a good rally for Neuville.
A good one for Paddon.
About Fords didn t notice any improovement.
About Meeke,best of the rest.At same road position dont see any luck at all.
Fabias r5 made a well debut,and with very little troubles managed to finish a wrc round,not something easy from r5 cars at past.
Was waiting much more from Lappi and Tidemand,against Nasser and Kruuda who were clearly faster.






https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11377208_10153388166484973_791571250642067504_n.jp g?oh=68fd836148a08ff54c9df46f5bf74766&oe=55FEFC88

[dodge33cymru]

Good to have a live stage on Saturday too, but why oh why can they not show the end of WRC2 on their online coverage of a powerstage? It would hardly cost anything extra for them to produce - I understand TV restrictions for the main package, but just go back to it after the TV wrapup is done. Not to mention, this noon/11am finish time is utterly ridiculous.

Pity to see VW whitewash another event. Every time Ford or Citroen shout about how good a new component is going to be, it makes me wonder how much quicker the VWs will be, and there is no beating them without mistakes or failures on their behalf.

Great credit to Meeke again, and Ostberg showed really good pace too. For Meeke and Tanak, I have given them a lot of stick for their inconsistency and seeming ability to hit everything in sight before, so it's only fair I commend each on an apparently near-faultless drive this weekend.

[stefanvv]

Well, Meeke had a few moments AFAIR, but he is truly maturing and consolidates his results already. For sure a victory gives him lot of confidence for future development.
Tanak on the other hand was driving to finish. Nothing impressive, but well justified considering his previous results (mostly bad luck probably, but anyway it is important to score now).

[dimviii]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11329756_819339364770020_6292376254194132556_n.jpg ?oh=f3a3fcbb78277d7d6db60911d8349f88&oe=55FDC739
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11265577_819339314770025_2375703586370363327_n.jpg ?oh=4a2057ed7ef81540f7ef150ebffef538&oe=560C1B43
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11012545_819339214770035_5385773111168354167_n.jpg ?oh=641f56e466e43176351c5b89f2b37d92&oe=55C11A2F

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.819338611436762&type=3&l=ae8caf3457

[dimviii]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/17102_819345911436032_9063585512285690914_n.jpg?oh =f51c2f2e5c42d48ada4e28ba8271372f&oe=55C2A292

[Mirek]

I was one of the few spectators who thought that it was better watching Vieira do Minho once than Fafe twice. I realized that in the WRC is difficult watching something better than the jumps of Sordo and Meeke that I could see on the Rally Sprint. These are the pics of Vieira do Minho:

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01698_zps0vcyo4jv.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01698_zps0vcyo4jv.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01753_zpsb4q9ob6j.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01753_zpsb4q9ob6j.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01819_zps7unbiyqy.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01819_zps7unbiyqy.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01862_zpsrzzggcri.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01862_zpsrzzggcri.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01876_zpseu8jdmmy.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01876_zpseu8jdmmy.jpg.html)

Any idea why I can't see the pictures? I see nothing in the post and when I dig the url out of the quoted text it says to me that the page doesn't exist.

[AL14]

Any idea why I can't see the pictures? I see nothing in the post and when I dig the url out of the quoted text it says to me that the page doesn't exist.

Does the URL finish with html or jpg? If it is something like .jpg.html then delete ".html" :)

EDIT: Sorry do the exact opposite of what I said :D, add ".html" if it finish with .jpg.

[Mirek]

Lappi got 5 minute penalty for driving with blocked wheel yesterday on the road section after the last stage...

[RS]

Good to have a live stage on Saturday too, but why oh why can they not show the end of WRC2 on their online coverage of a powerstage? It would hardly cost anything extra for them to produce - I understand TV restrictions for the main package, but just go back to it after the TV wrapup is done.

Fully agree, the amount of coverage of WRC2 on the daily highlights show is a joke too. Is there a separate show for WRC2 after the event?

[Mirek]

Does the URL finish with html or jpg? If it is something like .jpg.html then delete ".html" :)

EDIT: Sorry do the exact opposite of what I said :D, add ".html" if it finish with .jpg.

I think I know where is the problem. I got to the picture and it has 4,5 MB. I'm now on mobile 3G internet and therefore the package of pictures is probably too big to load properly.

[dodge33cymru]

Fully agree, the amount of coverage of WRC2 on the daily highlights show is a joke too. Is there a separate show for WRC2 after the event?
Not as far as I can tell. There seems to be one for the Fiesta R2 cup (a really short clip) but not for WRC2 or WRC3. Realistically, the promoters could be doing so much for these teams in terms of promotion and giving their sponsors value, at little extra cost to themselves, but they just seem to ignore them completely.

[Gregor-y]

I was surprised to see the final stage was on live TV at 0500 today, but I didn't wake up until 0545, just in time to see Ogier not get ahead of Latvala. Either the announcers' audio was too muddy or I wan't fully awake, but it was easy enough to follow the times. Once the car's washed and the shopping done there's the Indianapolis 500 this afternoon which seems to be attracting a lot of practice crashes this year. Along with Monaco (which was also live although I slept through a lot of it) this is a pretty nice weekend.

[N.O.T]

WRC2 and WRC3 are a bunch of nobodies with no future and some nice joker entries... no need to have coverage.

[Gregor-y]

That's why I generally just check in on this forum during events. Live rally coverage is a bit sparse here.

[dimviii]

Lappi got 5 minute penalty for driving with blocked wheel yesterday on the road section after the last stage...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFx7WSAWYAA7xs1.jpg

[dimviii]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
Good on you @SebOgier - explaining his stage ends comments in the press conference and offering his congratulations to @JariMattiWRC.

what did he said?

[makinen_fan]

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/11059926_10152913488100678_3521125374341757755_o.j pg

[Medved]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
Good on you @SebOgier - explaining his stage ends comments in the press conference and offering his congratulations to @JariMattiWRC.

what did he said?

Page 78, Post #777 (stefanvv)

Sun 11:52 - SS16: Ogier
A huge final stage push! He's a full 4sec quicker than Mikkelsen but it's surely second place for the champ. Ogier however is out of the car and on the roof in celebration . And he's in a mischievous mood. "I know it will be a happy event for some people - some people will be happy because the best didn't win."

[N.O.T]

Page 78, Post #777 (stefanvv)

Sun 11:52 - SS16: Ogier
A huge final stage push! He's a full 4sec quicker than Mikkelsen but it's surely second place for the champ. Ogier however is out of the car and on the roof in celebration . And he's in a mischievous mood. "I know it will be a happy event for some people - some people will be happy because the best didn't win."

LOL. he has a slight point though, but still pathetic behaviour...

[dimviii]

Page 78, Post #777 (stefanvv)

Sun 11:52 - SS16: Ogier
A huge final stage push! He's a full 4sec quicker than Mikkelsen but it's surely second place for the champ. Ogier however is out of the car and on the roof in celebration . And he's in a mischievous mood. "I know it will be a happy event for some people - some people will be happy because the best didn't win."

i know that he said these at power stage end.
at press conferance he make a comment about what he said at stage stop.
the comments from press conferance i asked.


lolol Ketomaa interview inside the ambulance
https://youtu.be/ksptF7J1uNM

[OldF]

Lappi’s penalty destroyed the Finnish drivers’ podium position by class.:(

RC1 = 1
RC2 = 2 (6th after penalty)
RC3 = 3
And starting from the beginning again.
RC4 = 1

[makinen_fan]

i know that he said these at power stage end.
at press conferance he make a comment about what he said at stage stop.
the comments from press conferance i asked.

lolol Ketomaa interview inside the ambulance
https://youtu.be/ksptF7J1uNM

we can see later on, fia releases the press conference transcript at some point i think.

lol @ Ketoma's video, sees the funny side of it!

[Mirek]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFx7WSAWYAA7xs1.jpg

There is no signature of the competitor. Does it mean that results are still unofficial due to an appeal?

Edit: According to Pluto the penalty was now canceled. The mess continues.

[stefanvv]

lolol Ketomaa interview inside the ambulance
https://youtu.be/ksptF7J1uNM

:D "The car didn't landed very much on the road"

[janvanvurpa]

LOL. he has a slight point though, but still pathetic behaviour...

Says the WRC forum World Champion of Pathetic Behavior.

And undisputed expert on unintended hilarious irony.

[bluuford]

It came out that it was not public road and his penalty was removed... Seems that they do not know where the rally took place.. I was looking the stewards names and I remember that they have done several things that sounded a bit strange to me.. people are different.

[makinen_fan]

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
Good on you @SebOgier - explaining his stage ends comments in the press conference and offering his congratulations to @JariMattiWRC.

what did he said?

Still more moaning about the rules...:

What is coming out is satisfaction, with 21 points this is almost the perfect operation for the championship and that is my goal number one this year. Of course you heard some frustration coming from me. I am like this, I say what I think and sometimes I things when it is quite hot.I am always [having] problems to control my frustration. I say what I think directly to everyone. I have to say something about that. I said at the end of the stage that it was frustrating that the best driver is not winning this weekend. I say that, but I need also to say this is not the fault of Jari – it’s the fault of the rules. It’s like that. He did the job he had to do and especially today he drove as fast as he could to keep me behind and he did it well. Congrats to Jari and Miikka. Regarding myself, I didn’t risk it all. It would have been stupid. I am in a good position in the championship and I have to think about it. That’s my goal number one in the season: I want to be world champion again. Eighteen points is good. I keep the pressure, but on the long one I was a bit too cautious. I conserve a bit too much my tyres. Even so, even if I push maximum I could be quicker, but not overall. I am happy at the end and happy for the team after a chaotic Argentina rally.

Full post event press conference:
http://www.fia.com/news/rally-de-portugal-post-event-press-conference

[bunnings]

Rally de Portugal 2015 - BunningsVideo

http://i.imgur.com/I3o0kg2.jpg?1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8KHeutK7Fc&index=1&list=PLUWxC5moAEk9NJE1jt7FoCo4VJTiFv3kL)

https://youtu.be/E8KHeutK7Fc

[Mirek]

Still more moaning about the rules...:

What is coming out is satisfaction, with 21 points this is almost the perfect operation for the championship and that is my goal number one this year. Of course you heard some frustration coming from me. I am like this, I say what I think and sometimes I things when it is quite hot.I am always [having] problems to control my frustration. I say what I think directly to everyone. I have to say something about that. I said at the end of the stage that it was frustrating that the best driver is not winning this weekend. I say that, but I need also to say this is not the fault of Jari – it’s the fault of the rules. It’s like that. He did the job he had to do and especially today he drove as fast as he could to keep me behind and he did it well. Congrats to Jari and Miikka. Regarding myself, I didn’t risk it all. It would have been stupid. I am in a good position in the championship and I have to think about it. That’s my goal number one in the season: I want to be world champion again. Eighteen points is good. I keep the pressure, but on the long one I was a bit too cautious. I conserve a bit too much my tyres. Even so, even if I push maximum I could be quicker, but not overall. I am happy at the end and happy for the team after a chaotic Argentina rally.

It's getting quite pathetic. Yes, he is the best driver in the championship but he behaves really childish.

[dimviii]

Still more moaning about the rules...:

What is coming out is satisfaction, with 21 points this is almost the perfect operation for the championship and that is my goal number one this year. Of course you heard some frustration coming from me. I am like this, I say what I think and sometimes I things when it is quite hot.I am always [having] problems to control my frustration. I say what I think directly to everyone. I have to say something about that. I said at the end of the stage that it was frustrating that the best driver is not winning this weekend. I say that, but I need also to say this is not the fault of Jari – it’s the fault of the rules. It’s like that. He did the job he had to do and especially today he drove as fast as he could to keep me behind and he did it well. Congrats to Jari and Miikka. Regarding myself, I didn’t risk it all. It would have been stupid. I am in a good position in the championship and I have to think about it. That’s my goal number one in the season: I want to be world champion again. Eighteen points is good. I keep the pressure, but on the long one I was a bit too cautious. I conserve a bit too much my tyres. Even so, even if I push maximum I could be quicker, but not overall. I am happy at the end and happy for the team after a chaotic Argentina rally.

Full post event press conference:
http://www.fia.com/news/rally-de-portugal-post-event-press-conference


lol it would be better to dont speak at press conferance about what he said at ss stop.
These comments are more stupid.
this guy has really ego problem.Pitty that the best driver these days ridicule himself continiously.

the new decision about Lappis penalty

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFyYtH5WAAA2KEW.jpg

[stefanvv]

Still more moaning about the rules...:

What is coming out is satisfaction, with 21 points this is almost the perfect operation for the championship and that is my goal number one this year. Of course you heard some frustration coming from me. I am like this, I say what I think and sometimes I things when it is quite hot.I am always [having] problems to control my frustration. I say what I think directly to everyone. I have to say something about that. I said at the end of the stage that it was frustrating that the best driver is not winning this weekend. I say that, but I need also to say this is not the fault of Jari – it’s the fault of the rules. It’s like that. He did the job he had to do and especially today he drove as fast as he could to keep me behind and he did it well. Congrats to Jari and Miikka. Regarding myself, I didn’t risk it all. It would have been stupid. I am in a good position in the championship and I have to think about it. That’s my goal number one in the season: I want to be world champion again. Eighteen points is good. I keep the pressure, but on the long one I was a bit too cautious. I conserve a bit too much my tyres. Even so, even if I push maximum I could be quicker, but not overall. I am happy at the end and happy for the team after a chaotic Argentina rally.

Full post event press conference:
http://www.fia.com/news/rally-de-portugal-post-event-press-conference

It's getting tiresome already. Rules are like that and they are for everybody. He is the best, no one denies that, but he shouldn't concern too much about the rules, the tarmac rallies are the second half of the season, and this is where he will have the advantage.

[N.O.T]

It's getting quite pathetic. Yes, he is the best driver in the championship but he behaves really childish.

he just wants the seasons to pass as quickly as possible so he can accomplish his real goal and that is beating Loeb in numbers, but unfortunatelly he will never earn the respect Loeb earned even if his numbers are bigger at the end of his career.

[dimviii]

nice one

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFx-4rdWYAEd5NC.jpg

borl video
https://youtu.be/Zislr034YiY

[Ounin]

WRC2 and WRC3 are a bunch of nobodies with no future and some nice joker entries... no need to have coverage.

High level analys thank you... Now I know we're the nobodies are.

[stefanvv]

Nobody said anything about the new rally format. Well I liked it better than previous. Nice stages with great scenery and variety. Good balance with sprint and endurance stages. Tyre strategy was also important.

[N.O.T]

High level analys thank you... Now I know we're the nobodies are.

i am always that analytical, it is how i am... LOL

but honestly why people want more coverage of a championship that offers nothing in its core and only when some worthy drivers take part as jokers it has some interest...

I do understand that it is hard for some people to fight their autism and want coverage of everything even if it offers nothing... its like those people who visit 100 events per year and visit just hairpins or like those who count how many WRCs are in every event without caring about the quality.... these kind of people do things to satisfy their mental autism issues, not because they car about the sport... something like stamp collectors.. useless nobodies compulsive hoarders.... in the old days we even had separate coverage from the production and the s1600 series but it was justified.

[giù tutto!]

WRC2 and WRC3 are a bunch of nobodies with no future and some nice joker entries... no need to have coverage.

Yep...and the guys in WRC's came from outer space and drove their first rally directly at the highest level...no need for WRC2, WRC3, JWRC, PWRC, SWRC, ERC, IRC or anything else either...

[stefanvv]

Ogier to earn respect better than somebody else? Well he doesn't even try to. But has already mine anyway, nevermind the numbers. For sure future might change....

[stefanvv]

Yep...and the guys in WRC's came from outer space and drove their first rally directly at the highest level...no need for WRC2, WRC3, JWRC, PWRC, SWRC, ERC, IRC or anything else either...

You forgot the national "village" events - they are important sometimes.

[Rallyper]

he just wants the seasons to pass as quickly as possible so he can accomplish his real goal and that is beating Loeb in numbers, but unfortunatelly he will never earn the respect Loeb earned even if his numbers are bigger at the end of his career.

There are highs and lows from you. Mostly lows. But this one is one of your best so far. Agree 100% as many of our rallyfriends did too. Keep it on NOT!

[giù tutto!]

You forgot the national "village" events - they are important sometimes.

They are included to that "anything else either"-section...

[stefanvv]

They are included to that "anything else either"-section...

"Village" events can't be "just included" in some other category. They are "Village" events at their glory.

[stefanvv]

There are highs and lows from you. Mostly lows. But this one is one of your best so far. Agree 100% as many of our rallyfriends did too. Keep it on NOT!

This thread is slowly fading in the usual "no satisfaction" as any other rally thread when the rally is over.....

EDIT: May be the reason is Ogier, but he didn't won this time, so I don't get it

[AL14]

The main difference between the two, talking about respect, is that Loeb didn't need to say everytime he was the best. He let his performances and accomplishments speak for himself, and it was more than enough.

[N.O.T]

There are highs and lows from you. Mostly lows. But this one is one of your best so far. Agree 100% as many of our rallyfriends did too. Keep it on NOT!

everything i say is high, and fluctuates between skyrocket high to about 500 meters high... the problem is that you perceive my orbit highs as lows... you just have to raise your standards... LOL

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/57/89/Rallye_Portugal_2015_KH_170_578972_556219962.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/57/87/Rallye_Portugal_2015_KH_146_578726_5562186f1.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/57/87/Rallye_Portugal_2015_KH_134_578702_5562186b9.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/57/86/Rallye_Portugal_2015_KH_126_578686_55621869b.jpg

[Rallyper]

This OT I know: I think everyone of us other born natural fellows are way under your radar most of the time. Having said that it means you´ll have to seek for dialogue with outer space fellows when you´re skyrockethigh?

[stefanvv]

The main difference between the two, talking about respect, is that Loeb didn't need to say everytime he was the best. He let his performances and accomplishments speak for himself, and it was more than enough.

Respect is subjective opinion. People also have different standards what to respect more, and what less. Ogier talks too much about the championship rules, Capito also tried to do something about them, but soon gave up as there was no support from nowhere, it is true somebody else wouldn't talk that much. All just humans anyway with their qualities and falls.

[stefanvv]

This OT I know: I think everyone of us other born natural fellows are way under your radar most of the time. Having said that it means you´ll have to seek for dialogue with outer space fellows when you´re skyrockethigh?

I often wonder why he even bother to argue with lots of people, as the standards are so high.....

[dimviii]

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/grr_320a6623.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/grr_320a6522.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/grr_320a6600.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/grr_320a6536.jpg

[dimviii]

Respect is subjective opinion. People also have different standards what to respect more, and what less.

this is very general speaking you are talking,but here we dont speak generally about respect,but respect for a reason.
And Ogier doesnt deserve respect for a particular reason,as you saw, even inside his homeland compared to Loeb from his copatriots.



Ogier talks too much about the championship rules,
no he dont talk too much about rules,he talks too much about rules only when he dont win.
When he was pushing Loeb when he was cleaning all gravel rallies for years,he didn t spoke about rules at all.
Why?


Capito also tried to do something about them, but soon gave up as there was no support from nowhere, it is true somebody else wouldn't talk that much. All just humans anyway with their qualities and falls.
trying to find excuses about silly Ogiers behaviour doesnt help.

[AL14]

Respect is subjective opinion.

Although I find it is not subjective since we are talking about being respected by people in general and not individuals, yes he is human but so Loeb was and he had a way different stature than Ogier.

[EstWRC]

Great gallery http://jree.ee/gallery/wrc-portugal/

[AL14]

And anyway, looking at current "rising stars", Ogier finishing his career with bigger numbers than Loeb is not far from possible...

[N.O.T]

And anyway, looking at current "rising stars", Ogier finishing his career with bigger numbers than Loeb is not far from impossible...

Ogier only has 3 titles (2015 included)... he needs another 6 to be even.

I doubt VW will stay in the sport that long and i doubt that someone will not close the gap or emerge...

patience is a virtue.

[AL14]

Ogier only has 3 titles... he needs another 6 to be even.

I doubt VW will stay in the sport that long and i doubt that someone will not close the gap or emerge...

patience is a virtue.

Let's see, hope you're right, we need some tight fights for titles.

[stefanvv]

this is very general speaking you are talking,but here we dont speak generally about respect,but respect for a reason.
And Ogier doesnt deserve respect for a particular reason,as you saw, even inside his homeland compared to Loeb from his copatriots.

Yes You're right, for this reason I rest my case.


no he dont talk too much about rules,he talks too much about rules only when he dont win.
When he was pushing Loeb when he was cleaning all gravel rallies for years,he didn t spoke about rules at all.
Why?

Probably he had different things on his mind back then, I couldn't know.


trying to find excuses about silly Ogiers behaviour doesnt help.

I don't try anything. And Ogier doesn't need that to continue to take away the titles.

[stefanvv]

Great gallery http://jree.ee/gallery/wrc-portugal/

Amazing effect on some of those photos. Probably never seen anything like that.

[stefanvv]

And anyway, looking at current "rising stars", Ogier finishing his career with bigger numbers than Loeb is not far from possible...

No worries. Even if the numbers become bigger, he will never beat actual world champion. So this is always what he will miss in his career. (wow, I already predicted the future in this forum threads)

[Lundefaret]

Amazing effect on some of those photos. Probably never seen anything like that.

VERY good photographer. Clever use of natural and artificial light, and some cool tilt shift photography. Very impressive :)

[Lundefaret]

Kris Meeke is a positive trend in an otherwise very predictable sport.

Watched the WC Rally Cross race from Lydden Hill, and it was real excitement. Its very seldom these days that You get the same in the WRC. Last time was with Loeb in Monte Carlo.

Ogier is one step ahead, and it all comes down to how much he will loose with his starting position.

Volkswagen is one step ahead, so the amount Ogier looses on his starting position reflects in the finishing order of the VW`s.

Thierry Neuville is out of order, and thats a pity. He has a natural ability to go fast, but it seems he doesnt know how or why, so it only comes to him when every planet allign in the right order. He tries to much, and this is what increases risk and decreases speed.

Mads Østberg have been a little dissapointing, tough he has also struggled with technical gremlins. He has problems getting the car dialed in to the first SS, and spends a lot of his rallies doing work that should have been finished on testing. He is a very quick driver, but only when lucky with the set up. And I think he gets very stressed when he has a faster team mate.

Andreas Mikkelsen I cant really get my head around. In my opinion I think he is the quickest driver out there, when he knows the road and grip levels. But introduce changing grip levels and pace notes, and he seems to struggle a bit. ANd he also is a high risk braker, which catches him out from time to time. He is a driver where everything can just fall in to place, and then he will win rallies, (I have seen this happen, and then he is just incredible) but I think both he and the team dont know exactly what needs to fall in place to make that happen,, so he can be kept struggeling.

Jari Matti is the same driver now as he has been for a long time. High speed, high risk. Incredible to watch when he lets it all hang out, and he gets to the finish (he have had some extremely good drives in Sweden for instance), but will never be World Champion with some one like Ogier in the series.

Dani Sordo is on and off as usual. Give him a car he thinks is a little to understeered and he will impress. But a long way from the top of the rostrum.

The Ford guys can fight among the best of the rest, and Ott has some incredible bursts of speed from time to time, but high risk, so difficult to net a win.

In the final in RallycrossRX at Lydden Hill Petter Solberg won JUST in front of Mathias Ekstrøm, after a very close race, and it was exciting. Cant really say the same about WRC these days, and thats a pity.

[AndyRAC]

I think you're saying that it's fairly predictable? Which explains why apart from in here, there is little interest in the WRC ( as far as UK goes). I'm sure thats not the case elsewhere.

[dodge33cymru]

In the final in RallycrossRX at Lydden Hill Petter Solberg won JUST in front of Mathias Ekstrøm, after a very close race, and it was exciting. Cant really say the same about WRC these days, and thats a pity.

Yes, because it takes place over 10-20km, as opposed to 350km; it's a cheap, manufactured excitement for an attention-deficient audience, in my opinion. If every WRC event was just held on the Shakedown stage it would be equally close, but not very exciting.

WRC events used to be won by minutes, just like Le Mans used to be win by laps. Now, both frequently cone down to a matter of seconds, yet still people want manufactured drama. The irony being that manufacturing drama doesn't work, because it becomes normal, and what used to be dramatic becomes less so, so something more extreme must be done; look at NASCAR's predicament.

WRC is attempting to manufacture drama in some ways, by messing with the road order constantly (which has arguably backfired on them three times already), but by and large it allows the best to win still, which means that the drama that does take place is actually dramatic; see Sweden this year, for an example.

The excitement I derive from this sport is watching skilful people pilot a car down a narrow, tree-lined ribbon of track with potentially disastrous consequences, each trying to do it quicker than anyone else, for whom they have no visual reference (unlike rallycross, where you can 'manage' a lead).

Sorry, a bit of a rant there. I agree with your analysis of the drivers though.

[GigiGalliNo1]

VERY good photographer. Clever use of natural and artificial light, and some cool tilt shift photography. Very impressive :)

Tilt shift! :D

[tommeke_B]

Jaanus Ree is a great photographer indeed, you can recognize him because he's carrying half a studio with him on the stages. :D Completely different level than anyone else who is photographing in WRC. No offense to anyone but I don't like the recent photos of for example Lavadinho (@World), where the editing is very obvious and looks very cheap and quick. For those who like Jaanus Ree's photos, it's worth to check his other galleries too: http://jree.ee/galleries/

[GigiGalliNo1]

Yes, I met him last year at Rally Australia on the stages and helped him with some of his gear. I just now have seen his work.. bit and pieces online if I see a name attached but first time checked his website.

@world is a bit artificial... and like a few people have written in the past days noting photographers all at the same point, shooting the same thing and angle; my self working with McKlein i've been taught to go against the grain and have come out with some quality images with positive feedback from the bosses and their clients.

I do not like the additional flash in others images, but can see that Jaanus is doing it much better than Roslon and @world and others... don't get me started on Polish photographers :|

[Maui J.]

most of pro photographers have no idea to chose a proper spot, they focus too much on the scenery and less on what the car is going to do at that spot... most of them should just stick to mountain/scenery photos and weddings.

Part (not all of course), of the appeal of rally to many is the scenery/landscapes. How many times have we heard you whinge about those ladyboys going round and round those F1 tracks with grandstands and sand traps. What would you rather have, varied landscapes or identical sand traps?
Being from Greece I thought you would remember those amazing 'rallying landscapes' of the cars below the monasteries of Μετέωρα (Meteora).

[N.O.T]

Part (not all of course), of the appeal of rally to many is the scenery/landscapes. How many times have we heard you whinge about those ladyboys going round and round those F1 tracks with grandstands and sand traps. What would you rather have, varied landscapes or identical sand traps?
Being from Greece I thought you would remember those amazing 'rallying landscapes' of the cars below the monasteries of Μετέωρα (Meteora).

I want to see action photos of cars doing wild things, not THE SAME generic landscapes photoshoped with cool lightning and a car going through year after year... its rallying not landscape photography...

the main problem is that these guys are clueless about rallying and picking up a good spot, their idea of action is a hairpin, that is why they all gather up in the same spots on each rally... they do not care about the action only about the scenery... and every year they just become predictable... on the first day of portugal all these nobodies gathered up next to a lake and photographed the lake ... oh and a car passing through on a straight line !!!! LOL... I really doubt they even bothered to go through the stages one by one to find a proper spot, they probably saw a lake on google maps and gathered there for some amazing water photography... oh and a car with stickers on....

You can see beautiful pictures of Meteora without a rally car in them and by real professionals who know how to deal with landscapes.

[Kielder]

Some pictures I took about the atmosphere. Can you find the amateur between the professionals?

http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01745_zpsa9mnfkbx.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01745_zpsa9mnfkbx.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01378_zps6vcjczhf.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01378_zps6vcjczhf.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01468_zpsltfotjmz.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01468_zpsltfotjmz.jpg.html)
http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee510/OAnibal/DSC01377_zpsizdudvgg.jpg (http://s1231.photobucket.com/user/OAnibal/media/DSC01377_zpsizdudvgg.jpg.html)

;)

[GigiGalliNo1]

Unbelievable. An ambulance requested by an injured WRC driver and nothing done about it!

636

[hanjob11]

Hi,

you can see my pictures at http://www.rally3.de

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/freitag_3193/album_1_3199/portugal2015_wp3kh_006_20150522_1327791243.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/freitag_3193/album_2_3200/portugal2015_wp6kh_032_20150522_2004983836.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/freitag_3193/album_2_3200/portugal2015_wp6kh_075_20150522_1556709700.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/samstag_3194/album_2_3202/portugal2015_wp12kh_029_20150523_1683700312.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/samstag_3194/album_1_3201/portugal2015_wp9kh_038_20150523_1839122965.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/sonntag_3195/album_1_3203/portugal2015_wp14kh_018_20150524_1654349317.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/sonntag_3195/album_1_3203/portugal2015_wp14kh_040_20150524_1170424512.jpg

http://www.rally3.de/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/2015_3111/rally_de_portugal_3190/sonntag_3195/album_3_3205/portugal2015_sekh_001_20150524_1777837097.jpg

Karsten

[N.O.T]

Unbelievable. An ambulance requested by an injured WRC driver and nothing done about it!

636

Poor Bertelli... nobody cares about you apart from mommy and daddy... maybe that is an indication for you.

[Mirek]

Poor Bertelli... nobody cares about you apart from mommy and daddy... maybe that is an indication for you.

Don't You think that this is quite a serious thing to troll about? Welcome to my ignore list. Enough is enough.

[Mirek]

Unbelievable. An ambulance requested by an injured WRC driver and nothing done about it!

636

I can't imagine such thing would happen even on an amateur event here. What a shame...

[N.O.T]

If the co-driver turned the sign to SOS why the following cars did not stop ???

[dodge33cymru]

Great gallery http://jree.ee/gallery/wrc-portugal/
Awesome gallery, thanks. Those first ones in the forest are surreal.

I saw this guy setting up his massive flash gantry (that's not a euphemism) at Gartheinog last year and wondered what in earth he was trying to achieve; now I know.

[Ounin]

Unbelievable. An ambulance requested by an injured WRC driver and nothing done about it!

636

This is a huge failure of the organization and should be taken very seriously and investigated by the FIA, far more serious stuff than giving Lappi his 5 minutes back. Safety is the most important item in Motorsport. F.i. during Rally Wales last year a SS was cancelled / postponed while a marshall was in serious medical problems and that was a great and understandable decision.

[N.O.T]

instead of taking seriously a spoilled rich boys accusations you should just check your facts... why nobody stopped at the SOS sign ?? are 30+ drivers that came 20 mins after bertelli felt sick blind ???

[AL14]

An article about Bertelli's issue. The author had just spoken with the codriver via phone. It is in italian hope g translate will do a good job
http://www.rally.it/incidente-a-bertelli-scandalo-non-fermano-la-prova/

[N.O.T]

Rich boy should learn its place in the WRC and most importantly the rules...

if he wanted the rally stopped he could have put the SOS sign up to the following driver... which he says he did in the written report but apparently the drivers after him are blind...

[AL14]

For sure they have to investigate and verify if the organizarion has done what Bertelli's team claim. I would not take a position before knowing what the organizers have to say about this. For sure if that is true it's a big shame.

[N.O.T]

They do not have to investigate anything...

It is very simple for a driver to stop a stage if he wants... Give your co-driver the SOS sign and wave it to the following car.

[AL14]

I don't know how the SOS sign should be used in details but I don't think the driver of the following car could do too much if what they needed was an ambulance.

[Mirek]

There's no point debating that. The HQ must not refuse to send ambulance if the crew asks for that. There is no way to examine injured via phone. That's plain absurd. What if he suffered internal bleeding and died? Such things happen and I can name right now several particular cases only from rallying. There is enough time to investigate if sending the ambulance was justified after the event but not before they do that.

[N.O.T]

The SOS sign should be used when there is a reason to stop the stage and call for help... the following car stops and then drives to the next radio point where the organisers do what they have to do...

If Bertelli wanted the stage stopped he should have done this...

you do not use a nobody spectator as a doctor to speak with the organisers to stop the stage... and then cry like a kid. Its a serious sport and you go by the rules.

[AL14]

In the article I linked above it says that Bernacchini has activate the red cross alarm of the car but when they did not have any feedback then he decided to call the organisers...
I think that if it is true, the fact they had to call via phone the organisers for an emergency is a shame no matter the SOS sign or other stuff. But I still want to listen to organisers version.

[N.O.T]

when you are in a sport you go by the rules... if bertelli wanted his little head kissed by his mommy to feel better all he had to do is GIVE THE SOS SIGN TO HIS CO-DRIVER AND STOP THE STAGE

If you want an ambulance, you stop the stage... you do not call the organisers using a spectator, you do not send smoke signals, you do not go on a strike.... you give the SOS to your co-driver he stops the next car coming and everything goes according to plan...

the rules in sports are there for a reason...

i really hope the organisers don't bother with this clowns antics...

[dimviii]

https://youtu.be/QXPq3xc90hM

[AL14]

Ogier 10 mins ago on his faebook page

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11268076_951189354925723_8118456784482548537_n.jpg ?oh=97f8ee4aaad587b940640e762785f497&oe=55F99505

[Rallyper]

I think NOT has a point. However there are two parts dividing of the matter. All details has to be up before any judging of neither the organizer or the team.

[dimviii]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/Best_of_Rallye_Portugal_2015_062_126_5562d026c885. jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/01/Best_of_Rallye_Portugal_2015_051_120_5562d025c49d. jpg

[dimviii]

Ogier 10 mins ago on his faebook page

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11268076_951189354925723_8118456784482548537_n.jpg ?oh=97f8ee4aaad587b940640e762785f497&oe=55F99505

every time he tries to explain he make it worse.
This time Latvala won but it wasn t a straight fight.
I would like to ask him how straight fights were the rallies won against Loeb when he was cleaning all gravel rallies,and if he ever had made a complain.

[dimviii]

nice photo of Ogier

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFzRbcGUkAIgEaU.jpg:large

[mousti]

I heard Ogier called Evans an idiot in an onboard after finish of SS8?

[N.O.T]

Ogier is really losing it...

i would like to see VWs reaction from all the negative publicity he is giving them...

Ogier sounds like the annoying kid that was bullied in school for a reason and everyone was cool about it because he deserved it

i think he should relax a bit.

[eestlane]

Does anybody know who jumped the furthest on the fafe jump?

[Mirek]

Armin schwarz? :D

[dimviii]

Armin schwarz? :D

he has the record i think?

[sindroms]

I heard Ogier called Evans an idiot in an onboard after finish of SS8?

Keep on going, Seb, like this and you will stay in history like "a husband of Andrea Kaiser" even if you will take 10 titles in a row.

[Arnold Triyudho Wardono]

Does anybody know who jumped the furthest on the fafe jump?

This year or overall.?

[AL14]

I heard Ogier called Evans an idiot in an onboard after finish of SS8?

You asking for confirmation or it is a statement?

[AL14]

Keep on going, Seb, like this and you will stay in history like "a husban of Andrea Kaiser" even if you will take 10 titles in a row.

It is not that bad actually :D

[devil's land]

And about the new stages? Very different rally. The same stage have different type of gravel. Very difficult for tyre choices.

[stefanvv]

Ogier 10 mins ago on his faebook page

https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11268076_951189354925723_8118456784482548537_n.jpg ?oh=97f8ee4aaad587b940640e762785f497&oe=55F99505

One thing is certain - VW doesn't issue team orders:D. Yes rules are not fair to the leader, but fia wants to make some competition artificially with current rally format. I wonder would that be necessary if VW had make a break-through with their "shoot-out" proposal:confused:

[Maui J.]

I want to see action photos of cars doing wild things, not THE SAME generic landscapes photoshoped with cool lightning and a car going through year after year... its rallying not landscape photography...

the main problem is that these guys are clueless about rallying and picking up a good spot, their idea of action is a hairpin, that is why they all gather up in the same spots on each rally... they do not care about the action only about the scenery...

Wild things? Maybe you should stick with your favourite X-Games & Ken Block Gymkhanas then!!

The problems with the majority of the photographers at rallies is budget or lack of. Unlike McKlein and the WRC TV crews, they don't have the money to fly in by helicopter to find the perfect spot. Just like the 1000s of spectators, they arrive by car and access only where the organisers have allowed. Sure they can walk into the stage for countless miles to hopefully find the perfect hairpin, but time doesn't allow this as they need to get to the next stage before the top cars arrive.
Deadlines and budget are the bottom lines unfortunately.
Having worked in the photography/advertising/media business I know.

[stefanvv]

Unbelievable. An ambulance requested by an injured WRC driver and nothing done about it!

636

This is outrages. The organisers should react immediately to such request. They had also made mistake on the first stage with zero car burning, so from organizers aspect the rally was weak. It's a shame because the stages were great though.

[mousti]

You asking for confirmation or it is a statement?

Confirmation because I can't really hear it good..

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 5 met Tapatalk

[N.O.T]

The cleaning was always an issue and in the old days was even worse... but the only person who seems to be annoyed that much is Ogier...

When Loeb was beating him like a dog without an owner and won events he did not open his mouth.... he also does not open his mouth in events where being first is an advantage (hanging dust/ muddy conditions)

Yes the system is unfair and there is no solution for it apart from making the championship an all tarmac one...

Mr Ogier is the best driver by a long way from the current batch... but nobody will care for him after he retires and nobody will even mention him in future talks about the best drivers...

in order to become GOD you have to be gracious.

[N.O.T]

Wild things? Maybe you should stick with your favourite X-Games then!!

The problems with the majority of the photographers at rallies is budget or lack of. Unlike McKlein and the WRC TV crews, they don't have the money to fly in by helicopter to find the perfect spot. Just like the 1000s of spectators, they arrive by car and access only where the organisers have allowed. Sure they can walk into the stage for countless miles to hopefully find the perfect hairpin, but time doesn't allow this as they need to get to the next stage before the top cars arrive.
Deadlines and budget are the bottom lines unfortunately.
Having worked in the photography/advertising business I know.

media passes allow people who wear them access on the stage 1 hour before the start... if they were proper professionals they would just recce the stages before hand and chose a proper spot... the fact that one follows the other like blind sheep knows they are clueless about rallying and they should stick in photographing mountains, lakes, cats and weddings.

A confirmation of that is that most pictures/videos taken by amateurs are in a million times better spots than those of professionals

check the videos of MartinJ/bunnings/KKSF and you will see some proper rally spots instead of those useless rock and lake and villages photos that happen to also have a car with stickers in.

[stefanvv]

there was a great solution - the QS. I liked it, it was fair and every driver carries his own responsibility for the start order. There ware no complains for that I believe.

[MartijnS]

Agree with N.O.T. about the photographers. They can enter the stage if they want 1 hour before the start. I don't believe McKlein photographers are being dropped off in helicopters these days. Seen their photographers with cars over the last years. Anyway, it has not much to do with budget.
They just get the mediabook with the spots chosen by the organization and they pick spots only out of that book, and you know why? Because there is a mediaparking at most of those spots, so they don't have to walk far to get to the stage! ;)
Every rally the same story, Spain, everybody is at the big hairpin etc. Italy, the 2 big jumps.

[rayh_mx]

Every rally the same story, Spain, everybody is at the big hairpin etc. Italy, the 2 big jumps.

Agree... In Mexico everybody wants to see El Brinco. In my point of view it is the least rally has the whole event

[rayh_mx]

By the way. I agree with N.O.T. somehow without his particular way of seeing the rich kids. Common sense tells us that a blow to the head can start with a concussion and severe trauma continue. Each head is different and each brain sees things differently. After a stroke and certain period signs and symptoms may appear, such as dizziness, feeling sick, loss of balance and unconsciousness.

If I had if the passenger Lawrence had not hesitated to stop the rally

[6789]

Has anyone come across amateur video footage from the event? I haven't seen much as of yet

[belas]

I want to see action photos of cars doing wild things, not THE SAME generic landscapes photoshoped with cool lightning and a car going through year after year... its rallying not landscape photography...

the main problem is that these guys are clueless about rallying and picking up a good spot, their idea of action is a hairpin, that is why they all gather up in the same spots on each rally... they do not care about the action only about the scenery... and every year they just become predictable... on the first day of portugal all these nobodies gathered up next to a lake and photographed the lake ... oh and a car passing through on a straight line !!!! LOL... I really doubt they even bothered to go through the stages one by one to find a proper spot, they probably saw a lake on google maps and gathered there for some amazing water photography... oh and a car with stickers on....

You can see beautiful pictures of Meteora without a rally car in them and by real professionals who know how to deal with landscapes.
I could't disagree more ! The REAL professionals HAVE to go to Fafe in Portugal, as they OUGHT to go to Meteora, otherwise every event would look the same. Places like these show the individual character of each rally.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/118295684@N04/13185701433/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/118295684@N04/12716305953/

[N.O.T]

Of course they will go to the famous places, but that results every year to have the same pictures over and over... and the scenic places are just 1 or 2 in each event...

They could chose the rest of their spots according to the action offered not according to the scenery.

for example was there a reason why everyone went to that useless lake or the rocky place this year ??? all the pros nowadays apart from a very selected few are clueless about rallying and just have nice after-proccessing skills.

for example why did you choose this useless place ?https://www.flickr.com/photos/118295684@N04/13163194153/in/photostream/

because it has a nice background despite being just a useless hairpin.. thats why... it is a pity to see that people following rallying so many years are that clueless in understand the sport.

[Rallyper]

Anyone know the medical status of Bertelli today?

[N.O.T]

Anyone know the medical status of Bertelli today?

what medical status ?? he was discharged yesterday.

Mommy kissed him and he slept with his teddybear and he is fine now....

[Rallyper]

OK, you knew. I didn´t. But until we knew all no one, not even NOT (you) could tell his medical status.
But that´s good. Should have been much worse if he´d been treated for concussion or something on hospital.

[eestlane]

Does anybody know who jumped the furthest on the fafe jump?

This year or overall.?

This year. I heard some people say that WRC2 cars jumped quite far.

[GigiGalliNo1]

And lost a wheel

[Mirek]

I have accidentally found video of Camilli's strange crash from SS6 (at least I think it's him). It's at 2:56.

https://youtu.be/pmlhG7AAUbQ?t=176

[rayh_mx]

May be hit a rock or something

[Fly_Half]

Agree with N.O.T. about the photographers. They can enter the stage if they want 1 hour before the start. I don't believe McKlein photographers are being dropped off in helicopters these days. Seen their photographers with cars over the last years. Anyway, it has not much to do with budget.
They just get the mediabook with the spots chosen by the organization and they pick spots only out of that book, and you know why? Because there is a mediaparking at most of those spots, so they don't have to walk far to get to the stage! ;)
Every rally the same story, Spain, everybody is at the big hairpin etc. Italy, the 2 big jumps.

+1

A large percentage of the images you see from Mcklein, Lavadinho etc aren't even taken on competitive sections. Signed on Media taking pictures on road sections. I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.

[sollitt]

The cleaning was always an issue and in the old days was even worse... but the only person who seems to be annoyed that much is Ogier...

When Loeb was beating him like a dog without an owner and won events he did not open his mouth.... he also does not open his mouth in events where being first is an advantage (hanging dust/ muddy conditions)

Yes the system is unfair and there is no solution for it apart from making the championship an all tarmac one...

Mr Ogier is the best driver by a long way from the current batch... but nobody will care for him after he retires and nobody will even mention him in future talks about the best drivers...

in order to become GOD you have to be gracious. This is spot on.


The SOS sign should be used when there is a reason to stop the stage and call for help... the following car stops and then drives to the next radio point where the organisers do what they have to do...

If Bertelli wanted the stage stopped he should have done this...

you do not use a nobody spectator as a doctor to speak with the organisers to stop the stage... and then cry like a kid. Its a serious sport and you go by the rules. This is not.

This may be technically correct as the procedure for a competitor to summon assistance from their following competitors, however it is not the only procedure and not necessarily the best procedure when a competitor is at a manned check point or spectator point.
Head trauma should never be taken lightly and it is inexcusable if the organizers failed to respond when alerted.

[N.O.T]

Can you find me the section in the rules that gives the actions that a driver must take in order to stop the stage and call an ambulance ?? I doubt using a spectator as your negotiator with the organisers is in there but i would like to see it...

[CWJ]

Police blocked road to ZS28 Fafe for more than 6km from about Marinhão.

And they let even a spastic paralysised kid walk all that way up to the stage!

Organizers should have a plan for handicapped fans I guess.

[AL14]

Police blocked road to ZS28 Fafe for more than 6km from about Marinhão.

And they let even a spastic paralysised kid walk all that way up to the stage!

Organizers should have a plan for handicapped fans I guess.

If this is true I think the spastic one here is not the kid.

[Mariusz]

Can you find me the section in the rules that gives the actions that a driver must take in order to stop the stage and call an ambulance ?? I doubt using a spectator as your negotiator with the organisers is in there but i would like to see it...
It's not that hard to find it by yourself, but I have a good day so here you go:

40.2.2
In the case of an accident where urgent medical attention is required, when possible the red
“SOS” sign should be immediately displayed to the following cars and to any helicopter attempting to
assist.

And they are claiming that they showed the red SOS sign immediately when Bertelli started to feel sick and dizzy. The spectator you are arguing so fiercely about was a paramedic who was just helping there. The co-driver called the Chief Medical Officer as well. So according to FWRT incident report they did everything by the rules and had been refused an ambulance for over three hours.

[N.O.T]

which of the following don't you understand kid ??? and which part of the following did that nobody rich kid do ???

"the red “SOS” sign should be immediately displayed to the following cars and to any helicopter attempting to
assist."

do you see any

"call the medical officer and use a nobody spectator CLAIMING to be a doctor as your negotiator"" in the rules ??????

as i said if they showed the sos sign then 30+ drivers, after that nobody italian boy, are blind...

[Mirek]

It's not that hard to find it by yourself, but I have a good day so here you go:

And they are claiming that they showed the red SOS sign immediately when Bertelli started to feel sick and dizzy. The spectator you are arguing so fiercely about was a paramedic who was just helping there. The co-driver called the Chief Medical Officer as well. So according to FWRT incident report they did everything by the rules and had been refused an ambulance for over three hours.

It's pointless debate. It doesn't matter how the crew asks for medical assistance. The point is they asked for medical assistance and that was refused by chief medical officer over a phone. That's unacceptable as it is impossible to determine the medical state of any person via phone.

I can speak how it is here as I was several times personally involved (even though I was just a spectator). In any event from local rallysprint to ERC Barum rally the HQ never refuse to send medical assistance. I would like to repeat the word never as the procedure is clear - in case of such request there are no questions, stage is topped and ambulance starts immediately after previous competitive car. The life and health of the affected person is much more important than smooth run of the stage. In case there is a warning about a crash from the G-sensor at the HQ, the HQ calls the crew to check the situation. When the crew says that everything is allright but the HQ knows it was a crash of bigger magnitude the HQ continue to periodically check if everything is ok.

For example I was personally last year at the crash of Odložilík in Barum rally. His co-driver hit the rollcage by his head and felt dizzy and sick which is basically same situation as here with Bertelli. The HQ sent the ambulance immediately after receiving the information that he feels sick. They didn't even ask whether the ambulance is needed. It's common sense as nobody of us there including the crew had a CAT scan device with him to exclude internal injury. That's why the procedure (at least here) is to ask no useless questions but act.

[N.O.T]

No it doesn't work like that...

the rules state the steps if you want assistance...

the bulletin that kid published said that the co-driver called the medical officer and he decided that the boy was alright (and the result from the hospital proved the medical officer did a good call)

if Bertelli wanted the stage stopped he had every right to do so by showing the SOS sign...

This is the WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP, car manufacturers spend millions to be in it and every driver from the champion to the last nobosy HAS EXACTLY THE SAME RESPONSIBILITIES TOWARDS the organisers.... if Bertelli wants special treatment he can become a tailor in his mommys shop...

[N.O.T]

That's why the procedure (at least here) is to ask no useless questions but act.

And that is why Portugal has a WRC round and Czech republic doesn't...

[Mariusz]

which of the following don't you understand kid ??? and which part of the following did that nobody rich kid do ???

"the red “SOS” sign should be immediately displayed to the following cars and to any helicopter attempting to
assist."

do you see any

"call the medical officer and use a nobody spectator CLAIMING to be a doctor as your negotiator"" in the rules ??????

as i said if they showed the sos sign then 30+ drivers, after that nobody italian boy, are blind...
Dude, concentrate now, because I won't be repeating this. You show the SOS sign when you think you need urgent medical attention. I doesn't have to be immediately after an accident as in this case Bertelli started to feel sick 20 minutes later and you can flip the sign from OK to SOS. The rules also say 'when possible' so the OK/SOS sign is not the only way you can ask for urgent medical help as it can happen that the SOS sign could not be recoverable from a crashed car. And forget the spectator although the rules don't prohibit anybody from calling and reporting crew's medical conditions.

[N.O.T]

lets concentrate then... simple sentences.

- Did bertellis co-driver showed the SOS to the following cars ?? NO... or the drivers did not pay attention (which i find a bit far fetched).
- Does anywhere in the rulebook mention that if you want to stop the stage to call the medical officer ?? if it does, then please post it here and everything i said are absolutely wrong and i will apologise.
- Why did bertelli or his co-driver did not show the SOS sign to the following cars ???
- Why did bertelli asked for advice from the medical officer and not just call him and say "I feel i might die from brain hemorrhage" send someone.... the bulletin says he asked for advice... well the medical officer gave the advice to go F*** himself and it proved he was right...
- Does anywhere in the bulletin say that the SOS sign was not recoverable so he could not show it ???
- Does the bulletin say that his co-driver was aslo hurt and he could not show the SOS to the following cars ????

and to end this ridiculous nonsense.. IT WAS THE SIMPLEST THING IN THE WORLD FOR BERTELLI OR HIS CO-DRIVER TO HOLD THE FREAKING SOS SIGN TO THE FOLLOWING CAR AND GET THE REQUESTED AMBULANCE AS STATED IN THE RULEBOOK AND NONE WOLD HAVE SAID ANYTHING OR BLAME BERTELLI FOR DOING SO....

Go by the rules or go home...

[RS]

According to an article in Motorsport Monday, Al-Attiyah did a back-to-back test before Portugal with Michelin, Pirelli and DMack tyres. Apparently both the Pirellis and DMacks were 'significantly quicker' than the Michelin.

Maybe Michelin have become a little complacent as all the works WRC teams use their tyres?

[Mirek]

I guess WRC teams get different tyres from Michelin than WRC2 teams but maybe I'm wrong.

[dimviii]

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/738110IMG5852.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/190631IMG6085.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/716030IMG6365.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/529872IMG6230.jpg


more nice photos
http://motors-photos.jalbum.net/WRC%20Portugal%202015/#

[dimviii]

According to an article in Motorsport Monday, Al-Attiyah did a back-to-back test before Portugal with Michelin, Pirelli and DMack tyres. Apparently both the Pirellis and DMacks were 'significantly quicker' than the Michelin.

Maybe Michelin have become a little complacent as all the works WRC teams use their tyres?

hard to believe that dmacks are better from michelins.

[RS]

hard to believe that dmacks are better from michelins.

The test stage was only 5km and DMack brought their soft compound so maybe they were faster but last less well.

Regarding Mirek's query about Michelin bringing different tyres for WRC2 crews, apparently not - and lighter construction of Pirelli tyres suits the lower powered cars in WRC2 better.

[Mariusz]

From what I heard about Pirelli's softness their hard gravel compound is like in the middle between Michelin's softs and hards.

[Andre Oliveira]

http://ewrc-results.com/foto.php?e=19123&t=Vodafone-Rally-de-Portugal-2015

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/pfi_58.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/dar_rali%20portugal%202015%202%20dia%20033.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/dwi_15-05por_mikkelsen0012aa.jpg

[eestlane]

From what I heard about Pirelli's softness their hard gravel compound is like in the middle between Michelin's softs and hards.
Michelin is so hard that it only works nicely under a WRC car and it doesent get warm enough to work under WRC2 cars because they are less powerful. Pirelli is much softer and works better under a WRC2 car but its easier to get puncutures with pirelli. When the weather is really warm, pirelli wears off quite quickly. Both tires have pluses and minuses.

[sollitt]

No it doesn't work like that...

the rules state the steps if you want assistance...

the bulletin that kid published said that the co-driver called the medical officer and he decided that the boy was alright (and the result from the hospital proved the medical officer did a good call)

if Bertelli wanted the stage stopped he had every right to do so by showing the SOS sign...

This is the WORLD RALLY CHAMPIONSHIP, car manufacturers spend millions to be in it and every driver from the champion to the last nobosy HAS EXACTLY THE SAME RESPONSIBILITIES TOWARDS the organisers.... if Bertelli wants special treatment he can become a tailor in his mommys shop... Once again N.O.T, you demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the sport you so randomly choose to comment about.

You have outlined the universal procedure for a competitor to seek assistance from those following on the stage. This procedure is there ostensibly for when an incident occurs in a remote area and the competitors understand their obligations.

Not everything that occurs on an event, or that a competitor will do, or should do, is written in rules which you can access.

In supporting documentation there will be locations of checkpoints, radio points, marshal points and those manned with medics. There will be emergency contact numbers in order that a competitor can talk directly with HQ should the need and opportunity arise. And it would be most unusual on any event, regardless of status, for the organization not to prefer direct communication as it is more accurate and more speedy. And this will no doubt have been conveyed to all competitors.

This car came to grief in a spectator area where presumably there was a level of assistance. They weren't initially concerned about their wellbeing so they activated the 'OK' and joined the spectators. When it was apparent that the driver was possibly concussed, or worse, they activated the SOS and talked directly with the Chief Medical Officer.
This was ABSOLUTELY the correct thing to do, and avoided the need for them to stop the rally unnecessarily. That call should have come from HQ.

It doesn't matter the status of the event or how many millions are being spent. When a life is at stake swift action is called for.

I thought you were a medical researcher of some description. One would have thought anyone so engaged would know that when head trauma is suspected one does not recommend an Aspirin and 'put the feet up'.

[N.O.T]

again useless blah blah...

bertelli asked the advice of the medical officer... the medical officer told him he was fine and he was right...

If bertelli wanted the stage stopped because he considered the advice wrong he could just use the SOS sign and stop the stage.

The rulebook is there for a reason if you cannot follow it you are in the wrong sport and a danger to yourself and others.

[Rallyper]

Once again N.O.T, you demonstrate a complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the sport you so randomly choose to comment about.

You have outlined the universal procedure for a competitor to seek assistance from those following on the stage. This procedure is there ostensibly for when an incident occurs in a remote area and the competitors understand their obligations.

Not everything that occurs on an event, or that a competitor will do, or should do, is written in rules which you can access.

In supporting documentation there will be locations of checkpoints, radio points, marshal points and those manned with medics. There will be emergency contact numbers in order that a competitor can talk directly with HQ should the need and opportunity arise. And it would be most unusual on any event, regardless of status, for the organization not to prefer direct communication as it is more accurate and more speedy. And this will no doubt have been conveyed to all competitors.

This car came to grief in a spectator area where presumably there was a level of assistance. They weren't initially concerned about their wellbeing so they activated the 'OK' and joined the spectators. When it was apparent that the driver was possibly concussed, or worse, they activated the SOS and talked directly with the Chief Medical Officer.
This was ABSOLUTELY the correct thing to do, and avoided the need for them to stop the rally unnecessarily. That call should have come from HQ.

It doesn't matter the status of the event or how many millions are being spent. When a life is at stake swift action is called for.

I thought you were a medical researcher of some description. One would have thought anyone so engaged would know that when head trauma is suspected one does not recommend an Aspirin and 'put the feet up'.

But how hard is it to make a combination by also stopping next car according to rules? How would they have done if they where on a remote place? Just called the Chief Medical Officer or stopped next competitor?

[Mirek]

But how hard is it to make a combination by also stopping next car according to rules? How would they have done if they where on a remote place? Just called the Chief Medical Officer or stopped next competitor?

Why do You guys still repeat that it's not according to the rules to speak directly with HQ. It's perfectly allowed to do so and it's completely irrelevant how the crew contacted the HQ when a working contact was established.

Seriously it's like lawyers speaking loads of bullshit to cover up a a very simple situation. The thing is clear. There was an emergency request from the crew and the HQ refused to send an ambulance.

[AL14]

Is Bertelli a pampered rich guy with no place in WRC? Yes

Has Bertelli followed the rules perfectly? Let's say he doesn't...

Does he deserve to die for that?
I don't think so.

Refusing an ambulance requested not only by him but from a paramedic after a stupid diagnosis via phone is just wrong, no matter the rules. You stop the stage and make the ambulance go.

Then you ask Bertelli loads of money cause he didnt follow the rules, he has enough money to pay it. You become richer and show your rally is a safe rally. It's a win win situation.

[MJW]

Is Bertelli a pampered rich guy with no place in WRC? Yes

Has Bertelli followed the rules perfectly? Let's say he doesn't...

Does he deserve to die for that?
I don't think so.

Refusing an ambulance requested not only by him but from a paramedic after a stupid diagnosis via phone is just wrong, no matter the rules. You stop the stage and make the ambulance go.

Then you ask Bertelli loads of money cause he didnt follow the rules, he has enough money to pay it. You become richer and show your rally is a safe rally. It's a win win situation.
What criteria do you use to say Bertelli has no place in WRC?

[tommeke_B]

http://uk.rallydeportugal.pt/content.aspx?menuid=43&eid=1200&bl=1

... So the only thing that was damaged is his ego.

[N.O.T]

Seriously it's like lawyers speaking loads of bullshit to cover up a a very simple situation. The thing is clear. There was an emergency request from the crew and the HQ refused to send an ambulance.

because obviously there was no need for one... if bertelli disagreed with what a MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL told him he could have stopped the stage himself.... he did not do it, so everything is ok.

[N.O.T]

http://uk.rallydeportugal.pt/content.aspx?menuid=43&eid=1200&bl=1

... So the only thing that was damaged is his ego.


simple and to the point... no need for an ambulance, no problem.

[N.O.T]

What criteria do you use to say Bertelli has no place in WRC?


driving skills.. too many crashes, and too slow.

[rayh_mx]

I would love to know the protocol used by the doctor who was consulted to know that the condition of a person who is involved in a car accident in competition or daily basis to determine that Bertelli's symptoms was for

a) No eating
b) not having slept
c) Possible hyperglycemia
d) Martinis hungover from yesterday party
e) All of the above

Or maybe they have a crystal ball in true gypsy style and guessed what was confirmed in the hospital

In addition Bernacchini neither Bertelli they claimed in his letter that the SS stopped, asked medical care were denied, and this can be reached by air

[N.O.T]

In addition Bernacchini neither Bertelli they claimed in his letter that the SS stopped, asked medical care were denied, and this can be reached by air

still the stage must stop.... you cannot run the rally with the medical helicopter occupied in case it is needed for another competitor.

[rayh_mx]

still the stage must stop.... you cannot run the rally with the medical helicopter occupied in case it is needed for another competitor.

How many helicopters were in the HQ of Rally Portugal? How do you know that was only 1?

[N.O.T]

How many helicopters were in the HQ of Rally Portugal? How do you know that was only 1?

you cannot run the rally while the medical helicopter is occupied... simple as that no matter if you have 1 or 100 helicopters.

[rayh_mx]

driving skills.. too many crashes, and too slow.

But he has a lot of money. It pays to stay

[rayh_mx]

you cannot run the rally while the medical helicopter is occupied... simple as that no matter if you have 1 or 100 helicopters.

Something we agree. The stage had to be canceled and attend Bertelli, right?

What percentage of responsibility you give to the crew and how much you give to the organization of the rally?

[AL14]

What criteria do you use to say Bertelli has no place in WRC?

NOT answered right. He casually won a wrc2 event last year and thought he could be among the top of the world.

I really don't like this kind of drivers. When they drive in production cup or WRC2 they choose everytime the most far away events 'cause they know there will be less competition (not everyone has a mom whose surname is Prada, and can't afford that costs).
Then when they achieve something, like Bertelli in Sardinia last year (winning a event where his main competitors crashed, otherwise he would have been away from the lead as always), they start to think they are worth dont-know-what.

By the way, if he wants to drive in WRC he is free to do it. We have more WRC cars, no problem. But let me say he has no place.

[rayh_mx]

Place in the championship yes, he has, because it pays.

That we do not like to be there, it's another thing

[MJW]

NOT answered right. He casually won a wrc2 event last year and thought he could be among the top of the world.

I really don't like this kind of drivers. When they drive in production cup or WRC2 they choose everytime the most far away events 'cause they know there will be less competition (not everyone has a mom whose surname is Prada, and can't afford that costs).
Then when they achieve something, like Bertelli in Sardinia last year (winning a event where his main competitors crashed, otherwise he would have been away from the lead as always), they start to think they are worth dont-know-what.

By the way, if he wants to drive in WRC he is free to do it. We have more WRC cars, no problem. But let me say he has no place.
So if you won €100M on the lottery you wouldnt drive a WRC car?
The fact is the motorsport history has been full of monied persons indulging in hobbies who pay for a service, from M-Sport, PH Citroen etc.
Bertelli's brother does Americas Cup yachting, they pay, its the way of the world. If Lorenzo wasnt in F10 WRT Malcolm wouldnt give that car to a young talented driver with no money. I cant understand why keyboard warriors are against pay drivers. You clearly havent needed to make a living from motorsport.
Van Merksteins, Kuipes, Bertelli, Rauntenbach have never claimed to be challenging Loeb, Ogier etc. they are in a fortunate enough position to do what they want to.

[AL14]

So if you won €100M on the lottery you wouldnt drive a WRC car?
The fact is the motorsport history has been full of monied persons indulging in hobbies who pay for a service, from M-Sport, PH Citroen etc.
Bertelli's brother does Americas Cup yachting, they pay, its the way of the world. If Lorenzo wasnt in F10 WRT Malcolm wouldnt give that car to a young talented driver with no money. I cant understand why keyboard warriors are against pay drivers. You clearly havent needed to make a living from motorsport.
Van Merksteins, Kuipes, Bertelli, Rauntenbach have never claimed to be challenging Loeb, Ogier etc. they are in a fortunate enough position to do what they want to.

Don't call me keyboard warrior. I respect your opinion, please don't categorize me.

As I said I have no problem if he drives a WRC car, it's just that he is totally outside the level of the champioship, totally. For me he has no place, or if you want he has nothing to do with WRC. Unlike his brother that nearly won the america's cup twice.

[N.O.T]

the fact that he does not belong in the sport is different from the fact he is allowed in the sport... of course he is allowed, but he does not belong.

[CWJ]

That team is refreshingly different. It puts money and brings attention to the sport, scored top 10 stage times and will soon reach top 10 results in the WRC. So it simply belongs to the WRC. Same way Prokop started and belongs to the WRC.

[N.O.T]

different people, different standards...

[Rallyper]

So everyone - stop this discussion. NOT is absolutely right about this thing.
No other arguments can be held on this matter. If Bertelli needed urgent help the only thing to do was stop the stage by giving signal SOS to next competitor and the rest is handled by the rules. No matter what small chiefs ever would have to say. End of discussion whatever you other guys say.

(I´ve been away for some 10 hours and still the same blabla. - Please try to listen to what NOT say. He is really right in this discussion. It has not to do with whom the accident happened to.)

[skarderud]

Well, i cant agree, Per.
Partly, because i cant follow him in his not wery good way too argue, both offending all, and also yelling too us (using big letters is yelling).

If someone is hurt, a nobody or a wc, It doesn't matter. If he does it by the rules or not, It actually doesn't matter eighter. Someone is hurt. Period.

I'm just taken the courses in jury and racemanagment i norway, i can both run a race/rally and be in the jury, one ting we learn'd is that you cant always follow the rules.

[sollitt]

But how hard is it to make a combination by also stopping next car according to rules? How would they have done if they where on a remote place? Just called the Chief Medical Officer or stopped next competitor?It would have been quite simple to have waved the SOS board and interrupted the stage. However, stopping the following car is not a rule, it is a procedure should you require assistance from those competitors. He didn't require assistance from following competitors as he was getting assistance from a Paramedic evidently and was able to speak directly with HQ. Therefore why would you stop the stage? Nobody would have thanked him for doing so.
It's easy to be wise in hindsight and to say that there was no injury and no harm. That clearly wasn't the feeling on location at the time and presumably wasn't the view of the assisting Paramedic.
It would be interesting to hear from the Paramedic as to his views on the urgency. Regardless, the actions of the crew were absolutely appropriate.

[sollitt]

So everyone - stop this discussion. NOT is absolutely right about this thing.
No other arguments can be held on this matter. If Bertelli needed urgent help the only thing to do was stop the stage by giving signal SOS to next competitor and the rest is handled by the rules. No matter what small chiefs ever would have to say. End of discussion whatever you other guys say.

(I´ve been away for some 10 hours and still the same blabla. - Please try to listen to what NOT say. He is really right in this discussion. It has not to do with whom the accident happened to.) The only thing N.O.T is correct about is that if the crew had have waved the SOS and stopped the following car the stage would have been stopped and the ambulance would have arrived.
That is the only thing N.O.T is correct about.
The rules do not require that action ... and it would not have been the appropriate action ... and not taking that action does not absolve the organisers from their responsibility to respond with some urgency to injury accidents.

[N.O.T]

My objection lies to the fact that bertelli issued that stupid statement saying that the orgnisers did not send an ambulance, not to his actions.

Bertelli did not feel well and consulted the medical staff of the rally, and the trained professionals did not see any reason to stop the stage since the little kid probably had a panic attack 8 year old girls have when they lose their dolls... and Bertelli got mad because they did not send an ambulance and stop the stage...

What i say is that even after consulting the organisers bertelli wanted the stage to stop he could very easily have done so... why did not do it ?? and why he blames the organisers for not stopping the stage while he did not stop it as well ??? I would understand his objection if the organiser refused him an ambulance after Bertelli stopped the stage by showing the SOS sign.

Now you are telling me that the medical officer would put his whole life on the line without a good reason ? are you that dense people ? if Bertelli trully was hurt, i really doubt the medical officer would put his freedom at risk (because he would end up in jail).

I can hear all the laughs coming from the rally centre while bertelli was describing his vegetative symptoms thinking they were brain hemorrhage... LOOOOOOOL My respect towards rally Portugal staff just raised 100 fold.

[TheFlyingTuga]

From what I heard Prada Mamy was in the HQ in Matosinhos and even said that could rent a Helicopter to go and get the kid! That was just a "spoiled brat" thing.

[N.O.T]

Rally overalls 1000 euros
WRC Car 300.000 euros
WRC entry for 1 year 2.000.000 euros
being a broken little kid without a soul.... priceless.

[Mariusz]

https://twitter.com/fuckmatie37/status/602830752137539584

[rayh_mx]

Let me write something stupid.

Tanak sank in Mexico, he and his co-driver was fine, some wet, yes, scared of course, but without a scratch. Why in Mexico decided to stop special?

I imagine the pilot came back at him, when get the control. Tanak's car no arrive. Did you see anything? Yes, he was fishing at the dam and was eating tamales with people there saw the rally. Or not ... I didn't see ... pum, may day, may day, send the helicopter

Again, the life of Tanak was not compromised ... that we knew when we saw the video after

[N.O.T]

In mexico they stopped the stage because they saw the gps signal disappearing suddenly within the water so they feared for the worst.

[Rally Power]

The link was already put here, but it could be interesting to reproduce in a clear way the organizers comment on Bertelli's incident:

"Following the statement released by the FUCKMATIÈ World Rally Team regarding Competitor #37 accident at the 2015 Vodafone Rally de Portugal, the organiser clarifies the following:

In relation to the incident involving competitor Lorenzo Bertelli, the organiser of Vodafone Rally de Portugal confirm that a person with medical background was in constant contact with the Event Chief Medical Officer and stayed with the driver at all times after his accident on SS10.

The Rally Chief Medical Officer consulted with the FIA Medical Delegate and at no time was the driver’s condition considered to be serious or urgent. He remained at the hospital for CT scan at 24 hours post-injury (hospital protocol for head trauma) and all the exams revealed no signs of traumatic brain injury.”

The Organising Committee

28 of May of 2015"

Bertelli claims on his press release are contradicted by the organizers, that have enough experience to distinguish a real medical emergency (like the one that involved a heli rescue to Max Rendina, #33 driver) from a minor health problem.

I like Bertelli involvement in WRC and think there shouldn't be any discrimination (positive or negative) because of his economical status, but the way this matter was described by him and his staff gives the idea that there's a little excess of egocentrism in the fuckmatie team...

Above all, this minor incident can't undermine the organizers great job on this year rally, especially attending the high risk option to return at the north region.

Perhaps, instead of dedicate so many posts over this issue it would be nice to see recognize in this forum the passion and the good behaviour of northern portuguese spectators and how vibrating and cheerful the rally turned to be ;-)

Viva Portugal, Viva o Rali!

[Mariusz]

Indeed, it was a great and beautiful rally!

[janvanvurpa]

If there is no brain, then logically how could Bertelli be brain injured?

The Organsier Dottore should have pointed that out to the boy and problem solved....

[PLuto]

In mexico they stopped the stage because they saw the gps signal disappearing suddenly within the water so they feared for the worst.

No. In Mexico they stopped the stage lot of minutes later, because they didnt really know what happened to Tanak...

[PLuto]

The link was already put here, but it could be interesting to reproduce in a clear way the organizers comment on Bertelli's incident:

"Following the statement released by the FUCKMATIÈ World Rally Team regarding Competitor #37 accident at the 2015 Vodafone Rally de Portugal, the organiser clarifies the following:

In relation to the incident involving competitor Lorenzo Bertelli, the organiser of Vodafone Rally de Portugal confirm that a person with medical background was in constant contact with the Event Chief Medical Officer and stayed with the driver at all times after his accident on SS10.

The Rally Chief Medical Officer consulted with the FIA Medical Delegate and at no time was the driver’s condition considered to be serious or urgent. He remained at the hospital for CT scan at 24 hours post-injury (hospital protocol for head trauma) and all the exams revealed no signs of traumatic brain injury.”

The Organising Committee

28 of May of 2015"

Bertelli claims on his press release are contradicted by the organizers, that have enough experience to distinguish a real medical emergency (like the one that involved a heli rescue to Max Rendina, #33 driver) from a minor health problem.

I like Bertelli involvement in WRC and think there shouldn't be any discrimination (positive or negative) because of his economical status, but the way this matter was described by him and his staff gives the idea that there's a little excess of egocentrism in the fuckmatie team...

Above all, this minor incident can't undermine the organizers great job on this year rally, especially attending the high risk option to return at the north region.

Perhaps, instead of dedicate so many posts over this issue it would be nice to see recognize in this forum the passion and the good behaviour of northern portuguese spectators and how vibrating and cheerful the rally turned to be ;-)

Viva Portugal, Viva o Rali!

NOBODY can know via phone, how serious is the injury, especially if it is head injury. In this case we should believe only driver's feelings and medical equipments (scans etc). I am usually on rally controls on events in Czech republic and I have lot of experience with this. If the crew member is feeling bad and there SHOULD be problem with it, we are immediatelly stopping the stage and sending the medical crew there. Because we are talking about health, which should be on first place. And dont forget, stopping the stage doesnt mean cancelling the stage, after some break stage can continue without problems.

I dont have more details about the problem, but what I have read from both statements (crew and organiser), for me this is big mistake from organiser/rally control/rally doctor/media delegate.

[N.O.T]

for me this is big mistake from organiser/rally control/rally doctor/media delegate.

No it is not. simple as that.. a medical professional knows a lot more how to deal with these situations... Bertelli probably described a panic attack instead of a brain injury.

There is absolutely no chance for a medical professional to put his whole life on the line without being sure 100000000000%, especially when the solution would be very easy like stopping the stage for a few minutes.

Organisers did exactly what was right and told the rich boy to take his psychotic syndromes elsewhere.

[N.O.T]

No. In Mexico they stopped the stage lot of minutes later, because they didnt really know what happened to Tanak...

we are saying the same thing.

[rayh_mx]

Bertelli probably described a panic attack instead of a brain injury.
Tha last one about it

Concussion Symptoms (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/concussion/basics/symptoms/con-20019272)

Seek emergency care for an adult or child who experiences a head injury and symptoms such as:

Repeated vomiting
A loss of consciousness lasting longer than 30 seconds
A headache that gets worse over time
Changes in his or her behavior, such as irritability
Changes in physical coordination, such as stumbling or clumsiness
Confusion or disorientation, such as difficulty recognizing people or places
Slurred speech or other changes in speech
Other symptoms include:

Seizures
Vision or eye disturbances, such as pupils that are bigger than normal (dilated pupils) or pupils of unequal sizes
Lasting or recurrent dizziness
Obvious difficulty with mental function or physical coordination
Symptoms that worsen over time
Large head bumps or bruises on areas other than the forehead in children, especially in infants under 12 months of age

Basics First Aid :wave:

[Mk2 RS2000]

It would be interesting to hear from the Paramedic as to his views on the urgency. .

And here in lies the answer !

[Francis44]

Are we still discussing this?!

As far as I know he was just sick of waiting and he wanted his mother to rent a helicopter and pick him up. And I just heard he did not need to go to the hospital, but his mother insisted he went for regular checkups. If he was not injured he should have to wait for the end of the stage just like any other driver.

[dimviii]

nice photos

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/14/96/Rallye_Portugal_2015_AF_009_149647_5567218de.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/14/96/Rallye_Portugal_2015_AF_012_149653_5567218e5.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/14/96/Rallye_Portugal_2015_AF_013_149655_5567218e7.jpg
http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/14/97/Rallye_Portugal_2015_AF_041_149709_556721928.jpg

[AL14]

Are we still discussing this?!

As far as I know he was just sick of waiting and he wanted his mother to rent a helicopter and pick him up. And I just heard he did not need to go to the hospital, but his mother insisted he went for regular checkups. If he was not injured he should have to wait for the end of the stage just like any other driver.

What does it mean you "heard"?

[Francis44]

What does it mean you "heard"?

Word from the organizers.

[N.O.T]

Its getting better and better as the truth surfaces... spoiled broken little brat... LOL

[AL14]

Word from the organizers.

LOL, I hope they're lying somehow. That would be too much "spoiled brat", I think we will never know the truth about this but next rally is in 2 weeks and we have nothing else to talk about :)

[Andre Oliveira]

Latvala onboard FAFE stage


http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLVyRAt2cxbxvv78JcuKZeaikD8PSzQRvr&v=iqfswkqi8ag

[Mintexmemory]

LOL, I hope they're lying somehow. That would be too much "spoiled brat", I think we will never know the truth about this but next rally is in 2 weeks and we have nothing else to talk about :)

We could firm up arrangements for the 'hospitality' in Sarde ;-) We are staying at Platamona on the beach - anyone care to come to a BBQ on the Wednesday or Thursday evening?

[Franky]

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/typo3temp/yag-galleries/14/96/Rallye_Portugal_2015_AF_009_149647_5567218de.jpg


"We have lift off!"

[makinen_fan]

More on the Bertelli thing:

Barbosa, who presides over the Automobile Club of Portugal as well as the WRC Commission, told AUTOSPORT: "Lorenzo Bertelli was very anxious to go to the arms of his mother, that's all it was.

"He wanted us to stop the stage so his mother could fly in in the helicopter and pick him up so he didn't have to wait.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119297

[AL14]

"That might be how it works in Italy, but that's not how we do things here in Portugal." this is just stupid to say. All his tone was the one of an idiot, he may be right about Bertelli but he is not less childish than him

[N.O.T]

It was obvious at least to people who know the basics about the sport that Bertelli was at fault and the organisers did not just ignore him... but ok we cannot all have the same intelectual levels, sometimes being a ignorant dog helps the society in many ways.

[janvanvurpa]

More on the Bertelli thing:

Barbosa, who presides over the Automobile Club of Portugal as well as the WRC Commission, told AUTOSPORT: "Lorenzo Bertelli was very anxious to go to the arms of his mother, that's all it was.

"He wanted us to stop the stage so his mother could fly in in the helicopter and pick him up so he didn't have to wait.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119297


Good on Barbosa for speaking clearly.

[dimviii]

http://www.irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00008154&10

After a lot of speculation surrounding Lorenzo Bertelli's accident on SS10 at Rally de Portugal 2015, Carlos Barbosa, the President of the WRC Commission, has spoken out - and he hasn't held back.

Many rally fans have called his comments 'too personal', and rightly so.

"Lorenzo Bertelli was very anxious to go to the arms of his mother, that's all it was." said Barbosa.

"He wanted us to stop the stage so his mother could fly in in the helicopter and pick him up so he didn't have to wait.

"That might be how it works in Italy, but that's not how we do things here in Portugal.

"He was completely OK, but he got very excited and made a big noise about having to wait.

"He thinks because he is the son of Prada this changes everything."

Lorenzo Bertelli responded in a professional manner, but it was clearly difficult for him to mask the emotion in his words. "After 20 minutes I nearly fell to the ground and felt really sick. I asked Gio [Bernacchini, co-driver] to hit the SOS button.

"After we waited already two hours, the spectator who was a medic called to the organisers again and said for us to wait another hour to hour and a half was too much.

"What is the point of having the button if we push it and the organisers do nothing?"

A fine question indeed, and one that rally fans all around the world have been asking non-stop since the accident occurred. After all, if a driver changes his status from OK to SOS, that means that something is wrong and that it needs to be dealt with immediately. But should the organisers of Rally de Portugal really have left the situation in the hands of a spectator who just so happened to be a paramedic?

"We had a paramedic with him and he was reporting his condition every five or 10 minutes." Barbosa said. This paramedic, a spectator at the event, has said very different things according to Bertelli's camp. Barbosa's comments haven't put this topic to bed. In fact, they've shaken it up and made it a whole lot worse.

Barbosa also added, "I have the best rally in the world. We have no problems with the event at all."

It's very clear that there are problems, and the problem isn't with the event itself - it's with the people who decided to put Bertelli's health on the back burner and leave him stranded inside a stage for three and a half hours. Bertelli went to hospital, stayed overnight, had two CAT scans and only left the next day after doctors pronounced him fit to leave.

A head injury is a head injury. The ambulances are on-event for a reason: to go in and retrieve drivers who require medical attention, and if Bertelli's incident was so minor, he wouldn't have had to go to hospital at all.

The question that fans are now asking is this: why has the President of the WRC Commission made personal comments about Bertelli's background and family in relation to an accident he had on an event, and perhaps more directly, what does his family name have to do with asking for medical help?

But the real question comes from Bertelli himself, and we will repeat it again now: "What is the point of having the button if we push it and the organisers do nothing?"


http://www.ralsys.com/irally_admin/news_images/Lorenzo_Bertelli.jpg

[AL14]

I would add another question: why a pathetic windbag moron is the President of the WRC Commission?

[N.O.T]

why ? for speaking the truth ?

[AL14]

I'm not referring to Bertelli issue itself, but about the tone and the words he has used for his declaration like when he said "He wanted to go to his mother's arm", or that idiocy about how things works in Portugal and in Italy or also when he says he has the best rally in the world.
Be a normal man, speak the truth but do not show your "masculinity" in such an idiot way.

[N.O.T]

I think he used the correct tone and words...

with people like Bertelli and all the other useless privateers of the WRC you have to be bold because those spoiled kids are used in being pampered by the local village event organisers doing all their favours for them in order the village people to see one more WRC/s2000 in the entry of their useless village event...

this is the WRC and if you want to be in it you have to realise that the organiser has the upper hand and he has a world class event to run, and you only demand things when there is a need to do it.

[Andre Oliveira]

Ford suspension is incredible

http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/dba_img_8942.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/dba_img_8929.jpg
http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2015/photos/vodafone_rally_de_portugal_2015/pfi_35.jpg

[AL14]

Village events aren't useless and he has not been bold but just pathetic in my opinion.
The rest I agree.