2013 ERC News and Results [Archive]

Sulland

28th September 2012, 17:05

Hopefully! :D

I also hope this means they at least start off with events in places that people would like to, amd can afford to go to, to get high numbers of teams !

Getting TV expo on Eurosport should make it easier to get sponsors for an ERC campaign !'
ERC done right could be a stepstone arena for up and coming people, and also for gentleman drivers and drivers over their WRC days to still be able to compete !

Some events could also be combined with the Historic series, for the even older cars and drivers !! :eek:

PLuto

28th September 2012, 17:28

Should we expect a merged calendar with the best events of the two series?

I am not sure if there will be the best events of the two series. I am afraid that more important will be the money...

OldF

28th September 2012, 17:38

A ten-year contract with Eurosport. That’s something.

World Motor Sport Council (http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressreleases/wmsc/2012/Pages/wmsc-280912.aspx)

“As part of the FIA’s commitment to strengthen the regional rally championships and implement a global strategy for the sport, the WMSC approved the principle of the appointment of Eurosport Events Limited as the Promoter of the FIA European Rally Championship from 2013 for a period of 10 years. Eurosport Events’ commitment will ensure the series is televised and promoted in all mediums.”

Sulland

28th September 2012, 17:44

Good thing with 2 mediahouses promoting in WRC and ERC, so they can compete and learn from eachother !

Mirek

28th September 2012, 18:03

Jack4688`

28th September 2012, 23:53

Does anybody else think it is quite telling that the statement said the IRC "...will not run next year in its current format across Europe"? Maybe it's not as simple as no more IRC and better promoter for the ERC. Perhaps the IRC will still run in some form....Or maybe I'm looking into that choice of words too much.

Plan9

29th September 2012, 02:31

maybe IRC will be kept as a trademark and the ERC name taken out of usage in that case?

Arganil

29th September 2012, 02:55

Good thing with 2 mediahouses promoting in WRC and ERC, so they can compete and learn from eachother !

Probably they'll only learn how to beat each other...

Each corporation (RedBull/Eurosport) will have a strong rally product to sell (WRC/IRC*) in a limited market (motorsport tv audience), so they'll end to make the series rivals.

I doubt it'll be good for the sport to have 2 international rally series disputing manufactureurs involvement and rally organizers commitment, especcialy in a economical recessive environment like the one we're living.

Maybe it would be wiser to have an undisputed manu oriented WRC and a complementary amateur friendly ERC.

*let's not be naive; to keep ERC brand it's only a political agreement between FIA and Europort. The goal of the series will remain IRC goal: a strong alternative to WRC.

Sulland

29th September 2012, 09:56

Maybe it would be wiser to have an undisputed manu oriented WRC and a complementary amateur friendly.

Fully agree.

IMO if we could get rid of manufacturers in WRC as well, it would be good.
what good have they given the sport over the last decades, besides making the top cars too advanced and expensive for talent to have a chance to compete with Manu cars?

Mirek

29th September 2012, 10:22

Probably they'll only learn how to beat each other...

Each corporation (RedBull/Eurosport) will have a strong rally product to sell (WRC/IRC*) in a limited market (motorsport tv audience), so they'll end to make the series rivals.

I doubt it'll be good for the sport to have 2 international rally series disputing manufactureurs involvement and rally organizers commitment, especcialy in a economical recessive environment like the one we're living.

Maybe it would be wiser to have an undisputed manu oriented WRC and a complementary amateur friendly ERC.

*let's not be naive; to keep ERC brand it's only a political agreement between FIA and Europort. The goal of the series will remain IRC goal: a strong alternative to WRC.

Last many years proved that European championship with just several gentleman amateur drivers didn't deserve it's name at all. It was just a joke. There was no interest among the drives even without any involvement of factories.

AndyRAC

29th September 2012, 11:57

This could, and should be a good thing. And the whole of Rallying should benefit. Having 2 competing series has never worked - history has proved that; CART v IndyRacingLeague is one example.
The WRC is the Premier series, the new ERC (incorporating the IRC) is a level below, in the sports heartlands. What direction they go, is anybody's guess, but I hope for something like a 8-10 event Championship - with a good mix of Gravel, Tarmac and a Winter/ snow event.
So, I'd include; Ypres, Zlin, Sanremo, Corse, Valais, Scotland, Cyprus, Arctic, etc

The writing has been on the wall for the IRC this year, with too many 'non descript' events and less than stellar entries.

Arganil

29th September 2012, 13:46

Having 2 competing series has never worked - history has proved that; CART v IndyRacingLeague is one example.

That's my point! If FIA manage to put RedBull and Eurosport working together it'll be a success, otherwise it'll end damaging the sport (don't forget WRC tv coverage decline in result of Eurosport/ISC confrontation).

There aren't so many potencial manufactureurs that can get involved at international rallying and tv audiences are always under great dispute by all kinds of sports, so if we create an opportunity to split vital resources we'll end to waste them without real compensation. In other words: it's better to have one great series than two or more medium series (F1 sucess recipe).

Don't get me wrong, back in 2006 IRC was an exciting bold move against FIA indolence over the sport. But IRC purpose was to "give new opportunites to young or amateur rally drivers competing in international rallies" and almost right away it has changed into a manufactureur mandatory registered 14 events series!

Mirek

29th September 2012, 14:36

Agranil, don't twist facts, please. There was never any mandatory registration for any number of events. The only and understandable point was that manufacturers who wanted to take part had to pay a fee. That's totally normal because IRC has always been a commercial project and never any kind of charity. It still kept very privateer-friendly rules. Any privateer can do whatever number of events he wants and doesn't need neither any registration nor any payment. He only needs a car of registered manufacturer but the championship entry was payed by the manufacturer not by the privateer like in SWRC or PWRC.

Also since the very beginning it was made for S2000 cars and for manufacturers. Remember who won in the very first season all events where was entered? Yes, works team of Abarth. Since the next season Peugeot joined and since then the number of directly involved manufacturers raised year by year till the point when first Peugeot destroyed Abarth and later Škoda destroyed Peugeot and Proton. I remeber very well we had 9 Peugeots in top 10 of Barum rally 2008. Pity PSA is bad looser and they quit waiting for new rules rather than continue fight with the opponent who came to their territory and won. It's funny how it was all fine for PSA in 2008.

Mirek

29th September 2012, 14:52

Little statistics of IRC to show that it has always been same with dominance of works or semi-works teams.
2006 - 4 events - 3 won by works crew, 1 by privateer (Abarth wasn't there)
2007 - 9 events - 6 won by works crews, 2 by semi-works crew (Peugeot Italia) and 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2008 - 10 events - 6 won by works crews (counting Hänninen here as he used Kronos car same as official drivers), 2 won by semi-works crew (Peugeot Italia), 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2009 - 11 events - 9 won by works crews (counting Peugeot UK here as they used same car as official drivers), 1 by semi-works crew (ŠKoda UK - that event without works car), 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2010 - 12 events - 9 won by works crews, 2 by semi-works crews (Peugeot Italia, Peugeot Portugal), 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2011 - 11 events - 11 won by works crews
2012 - so far 10 events, 7 won by works crews, 1 won by semi-works team (Ford Turkey), 2 by privateers (Basso, Sordo - but that's questionable)

Arganil

29th September 2012, 16:12

Agranil, don't twist facts, please. There was never any mandatory registration for any number of events. The only and understandable point was that manufacturers who wanted to take part had to pay a fee. That's totally normal because IRC has always been a commercial project and never any kind of charity.

I'm not twisting facts. IRC was early promoted as a competition for drivers, but after 2006 experimental season it was clear that it was meant to become a manufactureur WRC rival series.

That's way they changed their name from international to intercontinental, they recruited unpleased wrc events organizers, they promoted a manufactureur title alongside existing driver title, and, above all, they ended WRC tv coverage on eurosport channels.

If in the rally reklless minds of FIA directors at the Mosley era IRC was presented as a manufactureur series, surely some signing bells should have ringed in order to restrain Eurosport intentions. That was not the case, and Europort wisely profit from the indolent ruler in order to expand this rally series, overwelmed received by all wrc disapointed rally fans.

Again, don't get me wrong: in those WRC troubled years IRC was a breath of fresh air and the sport hugely benefit from it, but now that seems that FIA is puting WRC all together it could be time to turn IRC into a private teams oriented series, not a manufactureur wrc refuge, as it seems it will again be the case with this new R5 cars.

Mirek

29th September 2012, 16:53

Answer yourself. Was ERC worth following last ten years? It was what You want IRC to become - a championship of privateers. You can see only very few were interested despite they could win an official FIA championship title unlike in the IRC. Thanks god there has always been one really good driver to take the crown and we didn't have European champion like Tlusťák or Ruta. I have nothing personal against them but the sport should have a champion having skills.

Arganil

29th September 2012, 20:31

ERC can be reinvented in many ways. It hasn’t to be a gentleman drivers parade or a manufacturers refuge.

FIA should encourage european top drivers to compete in a ‘grand slam’ from european rallies, alongside their national championships.

For instance, besides the anonymous and unchallenging FIA euro zones cups, there’s a vacant space to introduce an European Super Cup, formed by a limited number (3 or 4) of iconic rallies. With a decent media exposure it could be an affordable alternative to ERC/IRC for private teams.

Mirek

29th September 2012, 22:11

How in reality You would like to select who is manufacturer entry and who is privateer? Was Kronos private team? I don't think so but how would You put it black on white paper to select which team is the true private one? What if I have a billion and rent a car from M-Sport with big testing and unlimited spares. Am I privateer if I'm entered on my license name?

I agree with the need to change or cancel the useless zone cups.

Mirek

1st October 2012, 10:08

stefanvv

1st October 2012, 10:15

Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14397)

Some quotes of Jean-Pierre Nicolas
- IRC to end, only ERC continues (as expected)
- calendar will be chosen of 25 candidate events
- R5 cars being prepared by Peugeot, Citroën, Ford, Subaru and Škoda (Subaru is a surprise news for me)

You can read the full interview after Rally Sliven here - Jean-Pierre Nicolas - Manager IRC (http://www.rallysliven.com/en/news/item/229-jean-piere-nicolas/229-jean-piere-nicolas.html)

kober

1st October 2012, 17:06

It seems that since FIA will have an input into the calendar, it won't be only about money. Hopefully Circuit of Ireland, Tour de Corse, Ypres, Barum, Poland, Sanremo will all make it :)

rallye-vid

1st October 2012, 17:19

Rajd Polski wants WRC status again

PLuto

1st October 2012, 17:45

Rajd Polski wants WRC status for many years. But now it is not only about money...

Jarek Z

1st October 2012, 21:59

I hope for something like a 8-10 event Championship - with a good mix of Gravel, Tarmac and a Winter/ snow event.
So, I'd include; Ypres, Zlin, Sanremo, Corse, Valais, Scotland, Cyprus, Arctic, etc

I will never understand why people need rallies like Cyprus! I totally agree with Solowow here. After competing in Cyprus Rally he said "I don't understand what sense it makes to buy a super-expensive rally cars and come here only to destroy them."

Leave such rallies for off-road please!!!

Jarek Z

1st October 2012, 22:05

IMO if we could get rid of manufacturers in WRC as well, it would be good.
what good have they given the sport over the last decades, besides making the top cars too advanced and expensive for talent to have a chance to compete with Manu cars?

I always respect your opinions, but this time I can't agree. What good did manufacturers give to the sport?! Wake up! It's only thanks to the manufacturers, that this sport still exists! When was the last time you saw a private driver competing in the whole WRC or ERC season? The sad truth is that only factory teams can afford a full season!

PLuto

1st October 2012, 23:36

kober

1st October 2012, 23:37

[...] I hope for something like a 8-10 event Championship - with a good mix of Gravel, Tarmac and a Winter/ snow event.There are too many rallies out there to trimm the championship to just ten events. I think that the current scheme for ERC calendar is not bad at all - twelve rounds, with a requirement to start in a minimum of four events in order to qualify for the final standings, including at least one event in either half of the season. Only the four best results from both half-seasons (4+4) count towards the final standings.

Jarek Z

2nd October 2012, 08:40

Jarek, there were some non-manufacturers drivers competing (almost whole) seasons in WRC and ERC - Solowow, Tlustak, Betti, Rossetti, Prokop, Araujo, Oliveira, Raikkonen, Novikov, Oleksowicz, Fontana, Isik...

Sorry Petr, but this is not true. As far as I remember Rossetti, Betti, Oleksowicz, Fontana, Isik and other drivers from your list (I think even Solowow) have never driven all championship rounds, not in ERC and not in WRC. This is only wishful thinking, that a private driver can afford to drive the whole championship. It is sad, but true.

Mirek

2nd October 2012, 08:48

I will never understand why people need rallies like Cyprus! I totally agree with Solowow here. After competing in Cyprus Rally he said "I don't understand what sense it makes to buy a super-expensive rally cars and come here only to destroy them."

Leave such rallies for off-road please!!!

Cyprus has not been that rough in the IRC editions. It was different event to the old WRC one. Mixed surface, a lot of asphalt sections and even the gravel was much smoother than in the past. Sure it was not rougher than Acropolis. For me it was very nice event also mixing competition with MERC which was really refreshing.

Sulland

2nd October 2012, 08:57

I always respect your opinions, but this time I can't agree. What good did manufacturers give to the sport?! Wake up! It's only thanks to the manufacturers, that this sport still exists! When was the last time you saw a private driver competing in the whole WRC or ERC season? The sad truth is that only factory teams can afford a full season!

Thanks, and it is ok to disagree on topics.

I feel we need simpler cars ala R5 and also cheap, so that private teams can fight with worksteams.
as it is today the worksteams always are 1-2 development steps ahead of private cars. If one private car does well in a rally, he will be told to slow down if it suites the factory.

I want some sportsmanship and equal terms back into WRC.

Mirek

2nd October 2012, 09:00

Don't be naive, works teams will be always ahead. Even if they use all parts same as the privateer.

Sulland

2nd October 2012, 09:08

This is a bit OT here, but but anyway!

Yes Mirek, but that is mainly due to electronics and tweeking of that.

So in my naive world I see standard ECU and more mechanics in most parts of the rallycar, to level out as much as possible btw works and privateer.
i might be dreaming, but that is nice sometimes !

Mirek

2nd October 2012, 09:24

Mirek

2nd October 2012, 10:03

ECU is standard and must be homologated including software

Wrong from me. It's not standard but it must be homologated.

All in all I'm not fan of "let's make all cars of same standard components" move. In my opinion it's killing the fundamental principles of motorsport.

stefanvv

2nd October 2012, 10:08

Wrong from me. It's not standard but it must be homologated.

All in all I'm not fan of "let's make all cars of same standard components" move. In my opinion it's killing the fundamental principles of motorsport.

In particular it is killing half of the sport - machine competition.

dimviii

2nd October 2012, 12:01

I will never understand why people need rallies like Cyprus! I totally agree with Solowow here. After competing in Cyprus Rally he said "I don't understand what sense it makes to buy a super-expensive rally cars and come here only to destroy them."

Leave such rallies for off-road please!!!

As Mirek said last years Cyprus isn t different from Acropolis in terms of rough roads.Except that every rally has its character.You can t have Finland- Estonian smooth gravel all over the world.And thats only good

werner

2nd October 2012, 13:01

Different characters of rallies: Remember 10 years ++ ago in WRC. Nobody was able to win Safari AND Monte Carlo. Thats the real WRC. Today every WRC event looks like the same in my opinion. Thats maybe the reason why a driver like loeb can win all races over the world. I think they should go back, like Monte who is able to make his own character with night stages. Thats why I think Cyprus in WRC is OK.

But in ERC its a small difference, because there is no unlimited money. When Solowow says he dont like cyprus because he damage his car, so we should take his words and think about. Solowow is a very fast driver and I think nobody want to miss him. I am sure on Cyprus are much more road available which are not like hell. I remember the 90ies when Cyprus was in ERC, the roads were with average speed of 55 or 60. In that years also many ERC drivers missed, it was held mid of September. Main drivers come from middle east.

In general I hope that the calendar selection of coming new ERC is not depend on money. If some Organizer cannot give 200K +, they should agree and reduce TV Coverage. Otherwise I think regulation with 10-12 events, best 8 counting is also not perfect. See current IRC, if a driver has his big results, he can stay at home. Bad for Yalta and Sliven, maybe also for San Remo, dont know. Cyprus with 2x points is another story. Maybe, I dont know, 8-max 10 races in calendar should be enough. There exist also the WRC if somebody want to make more rallies.

Jarek Z

2nd October 2012, 16:07

Don't be naive, works teams will be always ahead. Even if they use all parts same as the privateer.

But does it always have to be like that? Maybe only in WRC? I don't know if you remember ERC 2005, when Renato Travaglia, as a private driver, managed to beat factory drivers of Fiat (Giandomenico Basso) and Renault (Simon Jean-Joseph). How was it possible? Take a look:
RallyBase (http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=standing&standingid=erc2005)

Mirek

2nd October 2012, 16:57

In Czech we say something like it's one exception confirming the rule :)

I didn't mean it that any combination of works car and driver will always be faster than any combination of private car and driver ;) I meant that in general Hänninen with works Fabia will always win the championship against any possible real privateer in Fabia. If You understand me.

PLuto

2nd October 2012, 17:01

Sorry Petr, but this is not true. As far as I remember Rossetti, Betti, Oleksowicz, Fontana, Isik and other drivers from your list (I think even Solowow) have never driven all championship rounds, not in ERC and not in WRC. This is only wishful thinking, that a private driver can afford to drive the whole championship. It is sad, but true.

I wrote all or almost all. For example last year - Luca Betti and Maciej Oleksowicz were missing only in one event (and it was because of results system, when the worst result is cancelled), Solowow was doing complete ERC in 2009, Corrado Fontana almost too (he was missing only on last event, when he was without chance for better result). In 2008, Solowow, Isik and Betti made all starts in ERC. In 2007, Jean-Joseph and Isik made all events, Travaglia, Solowow, and Iliev were missing in one event.

PLuto

2nd October 2012, 17:04

There should be more exceptions. Look for example this year Madeira. Juho with complete factory support wasnt able to beat Bruno with private "****ty" Peugeot from Delta Racing...

Mirek

2nd October 2012, 18:01

You didn't get it either... I don't speak about one event in a season which is overall totally dominated by one. That changes nothing on general picture.

Jarek Z

2nd October 2012, 20:35

In Czech we say something like it's one exception confirming the rule :)

We have the same saying in Poland, so I get your point :)

OldF

2nd October 2012, 22:03

I’m happy if ERC can increase the appreciation with Eurosport. The next tier below WRC should be ERC but imo it has been IRC in recent years.

The problem could still be with so many WRC events are in Europe and they get all the publicity. But it worked with Eurosport’s IRC so way not Eurosport with ERC.

There were many drivers showing their talent in IRC and hopefully that continues in ERC with hopefully more affordable R5 cars.

Sulland

3rd October 2012, 00:14

There is very little electronics in S2000 car. ECU is standard and must be homologated including software. Of course there are various maps. The rest of the car is completely mechanical. How exactly simpler You would like to make it? What is different is that works teams have virtually unlimited testing and sources (tyres, spare parts). The drivers can concentrate only on driving, feel maximum comfortable with the car thanks to the testing kilometers. It will be same if they drive a kart made of wood.

I would just make the regulations as waterproof as possible. The one thing that separate the privates from the works teams is the ECU mapping, and possibilities to reprogram it or get access to all made
The mechanic parts is understanable for a trained machanic, and they can test and tweak. The ECU mapping is another story....
Petter Solberg in a private Citroen, and the private focus/fiestas through time tells us this has been an issue.

This will be THE key factor for the success of the R5 class imo, that is made to be a car for privateers in national and regional series. It will fail if you have access to mappings level 1,2 or 3 depending on how good a customer you are.

All I want is to secure a level playing field to start with. If some teams have more money for parts, testing and set up is fine. But letting the regulations make a A and a B team just after you bought the car will not be good for anyone. That is why making the ECU mappings open for all customers, or homologate a few, will imo level the field.

Sulland

4th October 2012, 15:18

Tech stuff aside, we can agree on disagreeing :p

How many rouds should be on the ERC calendar?
What rallies would you have on your calendar ?

Rally-eMag

4th October 2012, 15:31

Tech stuff aside, we can agree on disagreeing :p

How many rouds should be on the ERC calendar?
What rallies would you have on your calendar ?

10 rounds would be nice, a serious championship, but a little shorter than the WRC.
It should contain: Arctic Rally, 24 heures d'Ypres, Vinho Madeira, Rally Estonia, Cyprus, Tour de Corse, San Remo Rally, Raid Polski, Barum and the Hellendoorn Rally (but that's just because I'm Dutch ;-) )

And there should not be a rule that have the best 8 out of 10 results count. It should be 10 out of 10, and no multipliers like in last years IRC, that made it completely non-understandable for the fans. Simplicity is bliss, whoever scores the most points on all the rounds, wins. Easy, fair and square.

Jarek Z

4th October 2012, 16:21

It should contain: Arctic Rally, 24 heures d'Ypres, Vinho Madeira, Rally Estonia, Cyprus, Tour de Corse, San Remo Rally, Raid Polski, Barum and the Hellendoorn Rally (but that's just because I'm Dutch ;-) )

Oh no, don't exclude Mille Miglia, please! That is my favourite event. Can we replace Arctic with Janner Rally? I'm afraid that Finns are not interested in ERC.
Cyprus? Why do you want to organize rallying in countries where there is no interest in this sport? This mistake was made many times in the past. Let's not repeat it :)

And there should not be a rule that have the best 8 out of 10 results count. It should be 10 out of 10, and no multipliers like in last years IRC, that made it completely non-understandable for the fans. Simplicity is bliss, whoever scores the most points on all the rounds, wins. Easy, fair and square.

I agree that simplicity is bliss, no multipliers, coefficients etc. But 10 out of 10? How many private drivers do you know who can afford 10 rounds in an international championship these days?

pucky54

4th October 2012, 16:30

My vote is for 12 rounds:
1. Jänner
2. Acores
3. Canarias
4. Corsica
5. Ypres
6. San Marino
-----------------
7. Bosphorus
8. Madeira
9. Barum
10. Yalta
11. Poland
12. Sanremo

Season divided into two halfs with 6 events, 4 of them count.

Mirek

4th October 2012, 16:49

Oh no, don't exclude Mille Miglia, please! That is my favourite event. Can we replace Arctic with Janner Rally? I'm afraid that Finns are not interested in ERC.
Cyprus? Why do you want to organize rallying in countries where there is no interest in this sport? This mistake was made many times in the past. Let's not repeat it :)

Agree with Mille Miglia but there's need for balance of asphalt and gravel. Together with current four Italian rounds in IRC+ERC it's clear most is out for the future...

For Cyprus I don't agree that there is no interest. Cyprus had good entries in the last IRC seasons with a lot of drivers from MERC etc. Much better than many of this years events. However I agree that it shall be out just because it is round of MERC. I don't like an idea to have both FIA regional championships in one event.

I agree that simplicity is bliss, no multipliers, coefficients etc. But 10 out of 10? How many private drivers do you know who can afford 10 rounds in an international championship these days?

Counting only limited number of events doesn't help them anyway. It only helps works teams whose drivers can take more risk having jokers in their pockets.

Mintexmemory

4th October 2012, 17:13

I would love to see a gravel North England / Scots Borders event over 2 days, failing that an Irish tarmac event should be in the calender.

Mirek

4th October 2012, 17:14

Was there any interest from the local organizers?

106 sport

4th October 2012, 17:42

HaCo

4th October 2012, 19:20

Jänner has my vote for the opening round, who needs Monte if you have Jänner :D

Rally-eMag

4th October 2012, 19:37

Oh no, don't exclude Mille Miglia, please! That is my favourite event. Can we replace Arctic with Janner Rally? I'm afraid that Finns are not interested in ERC.
Cyprus? Why do you want to organize rallying in countries where there is no interest in this sport? This mistake was made many times in the past. Let's not repeat it :)

I agree that simplicity is bliss, no multipliers, coefficients etc. But 10 out of 10? How many private drivers do you know who can afford 10 rounds in an international championship these days?

I've never been to Mille Miglia so I can't really judge... Why wouldn't Fins be interested? There are always young talented Finnish drivers around who can't make it to the WRC just yet. And besides, Fins love ALL things rally :) But what is this Janner rally? Never heard of it...

Cyprus is a great rally, but I agree, not much interest from spectators. But like Mirek said, you need to balance the tarmac and gravel. I don't know too many other quality gravel events. I've been to the Cyprus rally a couple of times when it was in the WRC, and it was a great event to visit, not so many people so you could get to the stages quite easily. Nice scenery too and rough roads, providing a very different challenge than all the other European events.

Why should ERC be strictly for private drivers? I think Skoda and Peugeot might be interested to run semi-factory teams like in the IRC.

Mirek

4th October 2012, 20:11

You don't know Jänner? It's annual season opening. First international event of the year held in Austrian highlands near Czech border with international competition of Austrian, Czech, German, Hungarian, Italian, Slovak and other crews. Also one of the very few events were Stig Blomqvist still drive! Roads of Jänner were also used for Pirelli Star Driver Shootout but that was in summer. This year it was ERC opener won by Jan Kopecký infront of Juhö Hänninen and Beppo Harrach. The leaderboard was changing all the time with difficult weather (heavy new snow) and many offs.

In fact the rally is very similar to Monte Carlo. Stages are very similar to for example Saint Bonnet and the weather is usually similar. The difference is that in Jänner narrow snow tyres are allowed even with asphalt basis of the roads.

Here an onboard of Juho ;)

Onboard Hanninen Jänner rally 2012 RZ 16.mp4 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FazNTfr8H4A)

focus206

4th October 2012, 20:15

as a fan I would really like an ERC event in UK, expecially I find Rally Scotland beautiful :) but yeah, I guess it depends from many things...

Mirek

4th October 2012, 20:35

Rally-eMag: Sacrifice few minutes to watch this video of Darkstar ;)
Jänner Rallye 2012 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0IdwvJCJtg)

stefanvv

4th October 2012, 20:46

Rally-eMag: Sacrifice few minutes to watch this video of Darkstar ;)
Jänner Rallye 2012 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0IdwvJCJtg)

Who says Rally isn't pure fun :)

rallye-vid

4th October 2012, 20:52

And also this one: 29 Jänner Rallye 2012 - The Best Of by OesRecords - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0EkArH4Hmg)

Rally-eMag

4th October 2012, 21:03

Rally-eMag

4th October 2012, 21:07

Rally-eMag: Sacrifice few minutes to watch this video of Darkstar ;)
Jänner Rallye 2012 [HD] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0IdwvJCJtg)

Wasn't really a sacrifice :D Looks great, especially the night stages are bad ass!

Jarek Z

4th October 2012, 21:26

My vote is for 12 rounds:
1. Jänner
2. Acores
3. Canarias
4. Corsica
5. Ypres
6. San Marino
-----------------
7. Bosphorus
8. Madeira
9. Barum
10. Yalta
11. Poland
12. Sanremo

In my opinion the calendar that you propose is the most expensive calendar that you can think of. Not only it consists of as many as 12 events, but also contains the most expensive rallies, like Acores, Canarias and Madeira. Let's not repeat mistakes from the past :)

Jarek Z

4th October 2012, 21:29

Why wouldn't Fins be interested?

Because there were only two Finns competing in ERC in the last 20 years ;)

Mirek

4th October 2012, 21:33

pucky54

4th October 2012, 21:40

In my opinion the calendar that you propose is the most expensive calendar that you can think of. Not only it consists of as many as 12 events, but also contains the most expensive rallies, like Acores, Canarias and Madeira. Let's not repeat mistakes from the past :)

...as I wrote, only 8 rounds count, so you can leave out the most expensive ones if you want... :)

dupanton

4th October 2012, 22:07

I hope there wont be a rule like in IRC, that manufactures have to enter the championship. Otherwise, we risk seeing conflicts again like in Ypres (Snijers who had to start far in his Mini, despite being in the top 5 overall)...

AndyRAC

4th October 2012, 23:03

If it as up to me...

1. Jänner
2. Mille Miglia
3. Tour de Corse
4. Bosphorus
5. Ypres
6. Rajd Polski
7. Barum
8. Sanremo
9. Scotland
10. Valais

Too much asphalt, I know. But I can't skip any of those asphalt events I wrote :)

Run Sanremo as a 'mixed' event? Not that it will happen. I'm glad you've included Valais - I really liked that event back in 2008.

Sulland

5th October 2012, 00:03

We need one in CZ. What is the difference in character btw Barum and Bohemia?

Maybe 3 rallies North Europe, 3 Mid Europe and 3 South Europe would be fare. 7 best counts.

polo10

5th October 2012, 00:58

Sorry but. Azores or Madeira must be in. Azores is probably the best rally gravel in IRC and there are so few gravel rallys... Madeira is one of the oldest rally in ERC, and also a very spectacular and well organized event... I don t say both, but ONE of them must be in

Mirek

5th October 2012, 08:21

Acores are very far - that is big problem. Madeira as far as I know has had financial problems and could not afford to host IRC.

Mirek

5th October 2012, 08:38

We need one in CZ. What is the difference in character btw Barum and Bohemia?

Both are very different. Bohemia is more technical, more twisty, generally better asphalt quality. For spectators Barum is better. More people, shorter road sections, more access points to the stages and not so extremely strict spectator regulation like in Bohemia. Advantage of Bohemia is Škoda as main sponsor and being spread along the motorway from Prague to Liberec while Zlín is just somewhere at the east without an airport etc. But in Zlín the atmosphere is better. You can see how the city lives the rally. I also find the stages more spectacular for watching.

Raven

5th October 2012, 09:44

My wish list (and I don't care some rallies have budget problems, because it's also FIA orc IRC fault)

Janner
Mille Miglia
Barum
Polski
Ypres
San Marino
Madeira
Antibes
Rally Estonia or something in Scandinavia?

In reserve:
Croatia/Bulgaria
Ireland
Valais

Sulland

5th October 2012, 11:27

My suggestion for a calendar.

North:
Arctic Rally, Finland - Snow
South Swedish rally, Sweden - Gravel
A Classic RAC rally, UK - Gravel

Central:
Janner Rally, Austria - Mixed Asphalt/Slush
Barum Rally, CZ - Asphalt
Polski rally, Poland, Gravel

South:
Asturias, Spain - Asphalt
San Remo, Italy - Asphalt
Cyprus - mixed Asphalt/Gravel

Criteria:
Good geo spread in Europe mainland.
All 3 surfaces in the calendar
Good rallies for both competitors and spectators.

dupanton

5th October 2012, 11:35

Raven

6th October 2012, 11:43

Every calendar without Mille Miglia is a mistake ;-)

OldF

6th October 2012, 23:00

Here is the standing for the ERC calendar so far from forum votes. Some got their vote from “it should be in” but most them are from a full list.

Rally

Votes

Series

1.

Barum

5

End of August / Beginning of September

IRC & ERC

2.

Jänner

5

Beginning of January

ERC

3.

Rajd Polski

5

End of September

ERC

4.

Mille Miglia

4

End of April

ERC

5.

North England / Scotland

4

Beginning of October

IRC

6.

San Remo

4

Mid October

IRC

7.

Ypres

4

End of June

IRC & ERC

8.

Madeira

3

Beginning of August

IRC

9.

Acores

2

End of February

IRC

10.

Arctic rally

2

End of January

11.

Bosphorus

2

Beginning of July

ERC

12.

Cyprus

2

Beginning of November

IRC

13.

Estonia

2

End of July

14.

San Marino

2

Beginning of July

IRC

15.

Tour de Corse

2

Beginning of May

IRC

16.

Valais

2

End of October

ERC

17.

Canarias

1

Mid March

IRC

18.

Hellendoorn

1

End of September

19.

Ireland

1

Beginning of April

IRC

20.

Yalta

1

Mid September

IRC

21.

Antibes

1

End of October

ERC?

22.

South Sweden

1

End of May

23.

Asturias

1

Mid September

ERC

24.

Rally Bulgaria

Beginning of June

ERC

25.

Silven, Bulgaria

End of September

IRC

26.

Targa Florio

Mid June

IRC

27.

Sibiu, Romania

End of July

IRC

28.

Croatia

End of May

ERC

As seen the top 3 rallies are legendary rallies in Europe and should be in the calendar. They’re also so different rallies (=3). Fast bumpy tarmac, snow tarmac and fast gravel. Ypres is on my list also (=4). A rally in north England and / or south Scotland would be nice witch stages from RAC (=5). I can’t decide which one should be on calendar, San Remo or Mille Miglia (=6). IMO Estonia deserves a rally in ERC (=7). I think Arctic is a little to far away from central Europe but imo there could be another winter rally in Norway (=8). Should there be few rotating events with a calendar of 10-12 rallies and witch gravel rallies should be added?

Rallies from this year ERC or IRC calendar with no votes are the Bulgarian rallies, Targa Florio, Sibiu and Croatia.

Lets say if only one rally per country would be allowed there would be a choice between Mille Miglia and San Remo or they could be run every second year.

mousti

6th October 2012, 23:15

Which forum is that?

OldF

6th October 2012, 23:22

I just count the number as have a mention of favourite rallies on this thread. I hope I got it right. :)

Jarek Z

7th October 2012, 19:52

I just count the number as have a mention of favourite rallies on this thread. I hope I got it right. :)

Good job OldF! Thanks!

For the ones who don't understand why I like Mille Miglia so much, my photo gallery from 2006 :)
=+DESC&modex=pokaz&T[id]=1428]Mille 2006 (http://rallyonline.pl/g.php?1&pg_[desc)

stefanvv

7th October 2012, 19:59

Good job OldF! Thanks!

For the ones who don't understand why I like Mille Miglia so much, my photo gallery from 2006 :)
=+DESC&modex=pokaz&T[id]=1428]Mille 2006 (http://rallyonline.pl/g.php?1&pg_[desc)

I personally would prefer Mille Miglia over San Remo. As for IRC Sliven Bulgaria Rally, after what happened with Eurosport coverage, I don't think it is it's place.

Jarek Z

7th October 2012, 20:29

As for IRC Sliven Bulgaria Rally, after what happened with Eurosport coverage, I don't think it is it's place.

What happened with Eurosport coverage? I wasn't following IRC...

stefanvv

7th October 2012, 20:37

What happened with Eurosport coverage? I wasn't following IRC...

This is the bizarre thing, there wasn't any. There are rumors of some disagreement between our federation & Eurosport, but only rumors I don't know details.

mousti

7th October 2012, 23:47

PitstopTV presented by Peter Baert who's doing freelance jobs at Eurosport had already this weekend a review of IRC Sliven (Eurosport images).

stefanvv

8th October 2012, 09:17

PitstopTV presented by Peter Baert who's doing freelance jobs at Eurosport had already this weekend a review of IRC Sliven (Eurosport images).

Never heard of it

Sulland

8th October 2012, 10:18

I just count the number as have a mention of favourite rallies on this thread. I hope I got it right. :)

Maybe an admin or moderator could create a poll on what rallies the users in here would like to se in ERC in 2013?

Raven

8th October 2012, 11:22

Maybe an admin or moderator could create a poll on what rallies the users in here would like to se in ERC in 2013?
First we have to decide how many votes are possible per person, what means we also have to decide how may rounds should be in ERC?

mousti

8th October 2012, 14:28

Never heard of it

Probably not because it's only viewable in Belgium.

OldF

8th October 2012, 20:18

Good job OldF! Thanks!

For the ones who don't understand why I like Mille Miglia so much, my photo gallery from 2006 :)
=+DESC&modex=pokaz&T[id]=1428]Mille 2006 (http://rallyonline.pl/g.php?1&pg_[desc)

Thanks Jarek. I got curious to see how it looks if the “votes” on this thread were consolidated.

werner

9th October 2012, 09:01

Jänner Rallye 1-3 / 01 / 2013 will be first round of ERC! They made the contract!

hari

9th October 2012, 09:35

Jänner Rallye confirmed:

http://www.ir7.at/content/erc_orm_auftakt_jaenner_rallye_2013.php

http://www.ir7.at/j131.jpg

tolis

9th October 2012, 10:12

Jänner Rallye 1-3 / 01 / 2013 will be first round of ERC! They made the contract!
You mean 03-05/01/2013

werner

9th October 2012, 10:20

You mean 03-05/01/2013

Yes ... :-)

werner

9th October 2012, 12:12

If Ypres not IN, many things going wrong ... but the big question is, HOW MANY events will count for ERC? I dont think FIA watch this site where many people agree with 10 ...

Sulland

9th October 2012, 17:34

Interessting from Eurosport Events:
Q & A: Eurosport on IRC/ERC plan - IRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103253)

pucky54

9th October 2012, 18:10

Ypres on 27-28th of June.. :)

I guess more 28-29th June ;)

liposh

9th October 2012, 18:20

stefanvv

9th October 2012, 18:49

Hmm, combination of gravel and snow said Mr. Ribeiro...it means two winter rallies. Janner is first and Rally Kurzeme in Latvia or Arctic rally Lapland is the second one. What is the current situation with rally Kurzeme, boys? Anybody knows? As I said in czech rally-forum I vote for gravel, I vote for snow, but surface on Kurzeme in winter is 2 cm of snow and wet gravel which I am not really interested in. I pray for some REAL winter rally. Fingers crossed for that. Anyway I have got bad feeling from that sentence "combination of gravel and snow" :-(

Tough event it would be. Mud, mud and more mud.

Arganil

10th October 2012, 02:12

“The FIA wants to turn the WRC more global and focus on car manufacturers while the ERC will remain Euro-centric, cost-efficient and dedicated to teams.
We therefore see no conflict of interest between both championships and we are committed to avoiding any clash of dates.”
François Ribeiro (Eurosport)

When you start a project saying that there’ll be no conflict of interest with existing organizations you’re obviously admitting that such conflict is likely to happen!

With a specially manufacturers designed category (R5), a large scale calendar (at least 12 events) disputed over the rallysport main continent (Europe) and the full commitment of a strong media organization (Eurosport), it’s quite clear that this new IRC (under the ERC badge) won’t be a 2nd level rally series dedicated to teams, and eventually will become a WRC rival championship.

So, from 2014 (2013 ERC season will be a transitional one, before the R5 full entry) we'll have 2 major FIA international rally series fighting each other for manufacturers involvement and TV audiences...

Strange? Maybe not. Odd things has happen to rallysport so many times before that it seems there’s always a twisted way to ensure F1 undisputed motor racing lead!

Leon

10th October 2012, 05:16

Eurosport as I can see are already "out" announcing details about their plans for the promotion of the ERC etc.

on the other side did anyone see similar movements from Red Bull media house or however is called about the promotion of the WRC? I did not see even a press release from them as if they were forced to take on that job.
maybe Arganil you are right and FIA will end up with a conflict between ERC - WRC. Hope I´m wrong but the quiteness from the new WRC promotion side makes me wondering...

sindroms

10th October 2012, 07:45

PLuto

10th October 2012, 13:03

Maybe there should be "something like" new event with combination of gravel and snow? :rolleyes:

makinen_fan

10th October 2012, 15:54

Motorsport News newspaper reports in Tweeter:

Circuit of Ireland to get spot on 2013 European #Rally Championship calendar. Full calendar in today's MN

werner

10th October 2012, 16:49

EM: Zwölf Läufe sind geplant*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/10/10/zwoelf-laeufe-sind-geplant/index.html)

Bartek

10th October 2012, 17:01

Poland last days in October and Cyprus after few days?

tolis

10th October 2012, 17:06

Poland last days in October and Cyprus after few days?
I think it's a mistake. It's the last days of September.

Raven

10th October 2012, 19:08

No tarmac rally in Italy? Why expensive Azores? Why boring Cyprus? I won't event try to comment Sibiu.
Looks like again the decision was made with money... I still hope the final calendar will be very different.

Mirek

10th October 2012, 19:09

What is boring about Cyprus?

Jarek Z

10th October 2012, 19:25

What is boring about Cyprus?

Everything?

liposh

10th October 2012, 19:40

What is boring about Cyprus?
That old good Cyprus from "WRC" times was very tough and difficult, very tough but also very beautiful stages...this new Cyprus is shortest rally from all in IRC and quality of the stages isn´t also very high....there are lot of rallies in Europe with better stages, organizers, better infrastructure, better...everything.

10th October 2012, 19:42

The Cyprus Rally last year looked pretty nice on the live coverage.

Azores is not so expensive if the organiser pays for the ferry. It's a beautiful event and I'm glad to see it in.

HaCo

10th October 2012, 20:19

Live coverage was good indeed. Hope to see a nice pack of drivers next year.

Verstuurd van mijn MT15i met Tapatalk

Mirek

10th October 2012, 20:23

Everything?

Are we speaking about the same event? The IRC Cyprus was an amazing rally with beautiful mixed stages like in the old days, with very special entries compared to other events (mixed with MERC) and with very nice fights.

IRC Cyprus Rally 2011 (Cyprus) - SS3 live coverage (FullHD) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odJVjmDTMM&feature=player_detailpage#t=647s)

How can anyone find such a beautiful mixed stage like this boring?

Luis Pacheco

10th October 2012, 21:31

Why expensive Azores?.

The organization pays the ferry, the trip and the stay. Expensive is for the fans. :)

PLuto

10th October 2012, 21:34

There is no problem only with the money, very big problem is the time... Cars are very long on the trip from garage to island and back...

makinen_fan

10th October 2012, 21:38

I agree that the WRC version of Cyprus rally had some very slow and tough stages that would not appeal to the competitors but some stages produced some very nice and dramatic videos/photos.

But the IRC version as Mirek said is totally different. They share some stages 1 or 2 at max. Last year's live Eurosport coverage was brilliant, the mountain stages make the helicam footage very fascinating.

PLuto

10th October 2012, 21:54

IRC is different, but still too expensive. Cars are heavy damaged after the race and costs with travelling to island are veeeeeeeery expensive (for same price as ferry to Cyprus you should do one czech rallysprint event with WRC car)...

Jack4688`

10th October 2012, 22:11

I am amazed that they decided to include Sibiu and nothing in Italy. This year's Sibiu event was frankly awful to watch - all the IRC website videos (except for Mikkelsen out in front) were of dust, dust and more dust!

And why have Sibiu and Croatia instead of ohhhh I don't know.... only the Sanremo, 1000 Miglia or Targa Florio?!!! Not that I'm bad mouthing Croatia - it's just the wide roads don't seem anything like the challenge of the (relatively) narrow mountain passes of those three Italian classics.

Let's hope that this year's schedule (if it remains exactly the same as now) is just a stop gap until Eurosport and various event organisers have time to get their rallies on the ERC schedule. That having been said, if Eurosport won't include either Sanremo, 1000 Miglia or Targa this year when they are all already on the ERC or IRC schedules what hope do they have of then being included for 2014?

The one shred of hope I have is that one of them (I personally prefer Sanremo) is gearing up to replace Sardinia on the WRC schedule after 2013 - there seemed to be some uncertainty this year about whether it would remain or Targa Florio would take over and next year the date for Italy is rather conveniently a similar weekend to when TF would take place....

Rant over :p

Arganil

10th October 2012, 22:33

Eurosport intentions on making ERC a WRC lookalike series are pretty obvious in this (draft?) calendar.

3 ex-wrc events: Corsica, Cyprus and Poland; 4 wrc evocative events: Açores (reminds New Zealand); Jänner (snow on tarmac, like the Monte Carlo); Artic (Sweden replica) and Circuit of Ireland.
Iconic ERC events only represented by Ypres and Barum (Madeira and Bulgaria regrettably dropped in favor of Croatia and Romania).

Big surprise (and the exception for this ERC with WRC flair): San Marino instead of the San Remo. Really sad if confirmed.

2013 will be a transitional season for ERC, and from 2014, with the R5 manufactureurs full involvement, this ERC could turn even more in a "european wrc", with a gravel rally in Great Britain or a event in Russia (earlier considered for WRC expansion).

PLuto

10th October 2012, 23:05

Arctic will not be in calendar...

Mirek

10th October 2012, 23:29

I am amazed that they decided to include Sibiu and nothing in Italy.

There is Rally San Marino. Except the city stage it is in Italy. They obviously wanted to keep balance between asphalt and gravel so they chose the gravel one of the four Italian IRC/ERC events of 2012.

Not that I'm bad mouthing Croatia - it's just the wide roads don't seem anything like the challenge of the (relatively) narrow mountain passes of those three Italian classics.

No, it's not. Only some stages are on wide asphalt. Also there is extremely slippery asphalt in Croatia which especially if wet is a challenge itself. Don't underestimate it...

For example this onboard of Juho is of a very nice stage
ERC Rally Croatia SS13 onboard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS3PIIcBVvU)

PLuto

10th October 2012, 23:43

And I think that if there will be Croatia in calendar, it should move back to different area...

Arganil

11th October 2012, 00:48

Arctic will not be in calendar...

You're right. Is this Winter Rally the one from Lithuania? Still, it'll look like a Swedish replica rally...

PLuto

11th October 2012, 03:01

Yes, it looks like a Swedish replica rally, but why not?

PLuto

11th October 2012, 03:02

Beside all this talks, I dont think that calendar from Motorsport News (copied on rallye-magazin pages) is the final version. As I know, they are still talking with organisers, but some of the events are almost confirmed. Only one official confirmed is Janner and very soon will be other two events ;)

Eyvind

11th October 2012, 07:37

Sorry for my english.

**** calendar. This should be a European championship, not an invention of Eurosport with rallies that have more money. Mille Miglia? Bulgaria? Madeira? Valais? Turkey? A little respect for the rallies that have spent years in the ERC.

I don't understand this globalization rallies and less with a championship tradition since 1953 and is the ERC.

OgyWRC

11th October 2012, 07:51

I believe that the different type of terrain and the “good” stages are just the one part of the equation. You can find challenging stages almost everywhere in Europe, but you can’t easily find a proper organization and traditions everywhere. I agree that money is necessary, but not sufficient condition. On the other hand, "old" rallies should work hard for their "big" names.
Nevertheless, Eurosport will aim at better geographical diversification to reach higher number of spectators and to satisfy their business partners/sponsors/manufacturers. I think, they should pay more attention to logistic expenses (as Pluto mentioned) and local audience interest – it is not a real rally without a decent number of fans around the stages and with just a few (rich enough) privateers! They should think about a low cost "2WD junior challenge" if they want to grow pilots.

atsiotras79

11th October 2012, 08:06

This should be a European championship, not an invention of Eurosport with rallies that have more money.

I think this statement sums it up pretty well. And to be honest it is pretty understandable. What credibility is there when an event that is included in a calendar is not ready one month before it is done? Nobody can program anything!

Of course there are better rallies to include in the calendar, San Remo and Turkey in my opinion should have been there!
About the Bulgarian events now, of course Rally Sliven is a better rally than Rally Bulgaria, but it is not something special. In Greece there are at least 3-4 tarmac rallies with that kind of roads! If somebody come to Kentavros Rally in Greece will understand what I say.

I am pretty sad because during Sliven rally with my friends we were talking about going to 3 international rallies next year, Bulgaria, Sliven and Turkey because it is in small driving distance, 4-7 hours, and now noone of them is included but what can we do? If this is for the best of the sport then it is OK for me!

PLuto

11th October 2012, 11:35

Dont be afraid Tasos, you will have Rally Acropolis in ERC in 2014 :D

Barreis

11th October 2012, 14:46

Eurosport reveals 12-event European Rally Championship calendar - IRC news - AUTOSPORT.com (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103279)

Sulland

11th October 2012, 19:20

When they have so many rallies to pick from, the calendar should not be fixed, but changing a bit every year. Maybe 8 more or less fixed, and 4 changing every year.

By doing it like this more countries can be involved, and be a part of european rallying !

werner

11th October 2012, 19:59

I am surprised that Kurzeme is in current ERC, but I like that because it gives a chance to scandinavian drivers, and ofcourse if some hero of Latvia take part on several events.

Jack4688`

11th October 2012, 20:13

There is Rally San Marino. Except the city stage it is in Italy. They obviously wanted to keep balance between asphalt and gravel so they chose the gravel one of the four Italian IRC/ERC events of 2012.

Well San Marino isn't Italy now is it....

... Only some stages are on wide asphalt. Also there is extremely slippery asphalt in Croatia which especially if wet is a challenge itself. Don't underestimate it...

For example this onboard of Juho is of a very nice stage

Also that video proves how bad the Ellegy TV coverage (from ERC's current official website) is - I had no idea there were stages like that. I'm quite pleased about that rally being included now.

Still pi**ed off about Sibiu though...

Hartusvuori

11th October 2012, 20:36

For example this onboard of Juho is of a very nice stage
ERC Rally Croatia SS13 onboard - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS3PIIcBVvU)

Two things I noticed from this video. I've never before tried to count the number of spectators on a special stage from an onboard video. If there were more than 150 people (excluding marshals) on that 17+ kms stage, I'll be damned. Only one place with more than a handful of people. Stage itself was not to blame. The other thing was how lousy Mikko called the pacenotes on the first half of the stage. Many corrections that could be rally-ending harmful on other rallies, also asking Juho things like "This was the place with gravel, wasn't it?" and not calling the finish at the end. Perhaps he was all too worried about his firstborn, whether he'd get back home in time, but it seemed as if they were running circles with one hand tied behind their backs, like a one forum alumni (?) would've put it.

Mirek

11th October 2012, 20:40

Well San Marino isn't Italy now is it....

As I already wrote, only city stage is placed in San Marino, all other stages are in Italy...

Mirek

11th October 2012, 20:44

Two things I noticed from this video. I've never before tried to count the number of spectators on a special stage from an onboard video. If there were more than 150 people (excluding marshals) on that 17+ kms stage, I'll be damned. Only one place with more than a handful of people. Stage itself was not to blame. The other thing was how lousy Mikko called the pacenotes on the first half of the stage. Many corrections that could be rally-ending harmful on other rallies, also asking Juho things like "This was the place with gravel, wasn't it?" and not calling the finish at the end. Perhaps he was all too worried about his firstborn, whether he'd get back home in time, but it seemed as if they were running circles with one hand tied behind their backs, like a one forum alumni (?) would've put it.

Frankly I'm also not happy with Croatia being there. I think that even Bulgaria or Turkey deserves the ERC event more (not only the "big" names). Croatian local competition is rather weak and none of their crews was involved in the ERC in past few years. On the other hand both Turkey and Bulgaria have quite strong local drivers, good machinery and also Bulgarians were one of the few to regularly compete in the ERC...

Jack4688`

11th October 2012, 21:34

As I already wrote, only city stage is placed in San Marino, all other stages are in Italy...

Oh right I thought you meant the city stage was in SM. I'm surprised that none of the real stages are in San Marino - I know it's a small country and didn't think they could squeeze an entire international rally in there but was under the impression that it was all within the country itself

PLuto

11th October 2012, 23:51

I am surprised that Kurzeme is in current ERC, but I like that because it gives a chance to scandinavian drivers, and ofcourse if some hero of Latvia take part on several events.

Rally Kurzeme is not in current ERC. And will not be...

Arganil

12th October 2012, 00:59

As I already wrote, only city stage is placed in San Marino, all other stages are in Italy...

That's no good reason to pull out SanRemo. Very similar situation to Montecarlo and no one dares to put out Alsace from WRC because there are 2 rallies using french stages...

This calendar is still a transitional move from previous IRC seasons, on which was obvious eurosport interest to make large financial revenues from less prestigious rallies.

From 2014, with direct manufacturers involvement, probably eurosport will consider manus markets preferences and countries like Croatia, Romania or Lithuania could give place to Italy, Russia or even Germany.

PLuto

12th October 2012, 01:35

This calendar is still a transitional move from previous IRC seasons, on which was obvious eurosport interest to make large financial revenues from less prestigious rallies.

I would like to correct you. This calendar is still ONLY draft from Motorsport News, nothing is final yet. They are still making discussion with other organisers... Actually only about 4-5 events 100% sure they will be in...

Luis Pacheco

12th October 2012, 09:57

Last night the organization of Rally Azores confirmed the inclusion in the ERC. They want the race set to April or June.

Jarek Z

12th October 2012, 22:34

This should be a European championship, not an invention of Eurosport with rallies that have more money.

Very wise comment! I read a statement from IRC managers, where they said that they are going to bring back ERC to its glory days of the seventies. I have no idea how they are going to do it with such anonymous rallies without any tradition like Sibiu.

Jarek Z

15th October 2012, 22:22

After the withdrawal of Ford from WRC, M-Sport is going to compete in ERC in 2013. There are rumours that their driver will be Giandomenico Basso, who won ERC in 2006 and 2009.

PLuto

15th October 2012, 23:59

M-Sport will do ERC (I dont know if M-Sport personally or with satelite team), lineup is not sure, but I expect at least two cars...

16th October 2012, 09:03

M-Sport will do ERC (I dont know if M-Sport personally or with satelite team), lineup is not sure, but I expect at least two cars...

Basso and Meeke would be a nice lineup :)

Unless Skoda do some serious ERC effort next year then I would place a bet now on Basso to be champion.

OgyWRC

16th October 2012, 09:19

... Very similar situation to Montecarlo and no one dares to put out Alsace from WRC because there are 2 rallies using french stages...

Please, don't forget that FIA "speaks French" ;-)

If Eurosport wants to give back the glamour of ERC next year, it must choose events with some traditions, good level of local competitors/privateers and decent level of penetration of rally sport among local fans. To develop and introduce new events may be a good mid term strategy.

Nevertheless, from Eurosport, FIA and manufactorers perspective it is more or less all about the money, hopefully this strategy can work along with ERC rebirth.

OgyWRC

16th October 2012, 09:30

...Unless Skoda do some serious ERC effort next year then I would place a bet now on Basso to be champion.

Lets hope, that it will not be so easy to predict the future champion, having in mind the intention of having different type of rallies (tarmac, gravel, snow).

werner

16th October 2012, 09:33

Yes, depends on money due to TV Coverage. You all remember Chris Courteyn TV. In the 90ies (and still today), he broadcast all ERC rounds with 30 - 60 minutes reports. Payed by his personal sponsors and if an Organizer has to add for example 10K Euro, it was OK. He made all with some crews, ofcourse no live (except Ypres where he made experiments with no money limit), but well done reports shown at free-TV.

Today all must be with big and expensive equipment, live coverage, many people involved, so its expensive and anybody has to pay. Its big business now. It was business in 90ies, too, but now its 10 steps higher. Today if I make a report one week later, nobody has interest. It must be broadcast same day, and if its on 23 in the night, many "fans" are angry.

If I remember back the ERC Coef 20 like Halkidiki, Manx, Corte Ingles (the old one ...), Piancavallo, Poland at Krakow/Wroclaw, everyone was its own and an adventure for itself.

Mintexmemory

16th October 2012, 09:47

That's no good reason to pull out SanRemo. Very similar situation to Montecarlo and no one dares to put out Alsace from WRC because there are 2 rallies using french stages...

Is it confirmed where the Rally d'Italia will be held next year? Maybe the mixed surface 4 day event idea will be resurrected. (Please!!!!) I love Sardinia, but a North West Italy rally would be fantastic.

Raven

16th October 2012, 12:52

You all remember Chris Courteyn TV.
Of course we remeber the best rally magazine "Rally Action" with the best balance of outside shots, onboards, service and interviews. For me much better than current Eurosport coverage of WRC (too much onboards and boring) or IRC (overpacked with heli shots what also makes them expensive).

Maybe I'm a dying breed, but I prefer good magazine even few days later than "almost live" coverage. Unfortunately I have no tv magazine to follow right now - thank God for internet!

mousti

16th October 2012, 13:13

Courteyn still doing ERC and think some IRC rallies too or even alot of them..

werner

16th October 2012, 13:18

Courteyn still doing ERC and think some IRC rallies too or even alot of them..

Yes, Chris is doing both, his son European RX.

sindroms

16th October 2012, 14:08

Now its confirmed. Rally "Liepāja - Ventspils" (in previous posts "Rally Kurzeme" and "Winter rally") on 1.-3. of February, 2012, Latvia.
Welcome! :)

garais22

16th October 2012, 16:54

Officialy: 2nd round of European Rally Championship will take part in Latvia on 1st - 3rd of february 2013 (http://www.go4speed.lv/lv/news/rallijs/1482-eiropas-rallija-cempionata-otrais-posms-rallijs-liepaja-ventspils-notiks-1--3-februari/)

Jack4688`

17th October 2012, 19:56

This week's Motorsport news reports that Rallye Sanremo is looking to find extra funding or go under and that if it can get the funding it needs will be considered for a 13th event on the 2013 ERC calendar!

That's good-ish news right?

EightGear

17th October 2012, 20:02

About San Remo is good news, the fact it will mean the calendar will consist of 13 event isn't.

stefanvv

17th October 2012, 20:06

Will ERC 2013 coverage funding be the same as for the IRC events this year? Or more?

Jack4688`

18th October 2012, 18:41

About San Remo is good news, the fact it will mean the calendar will consist of 13 event isn't.

How bad is one more event? I'm assuming there will be a 'best 7,8,9 or whatever out of 13 events counting towards the final results' thingy so it may mean one more event drivers would like to go to more than some of the shi**er events on the calendar...

PLuto

19th October 2012, 01:54

13 is too many events, but 12 is also too many. I think that maximum is 10, ideal should be 7-8...

stefanvv

19th October 2012, 02:00

13 is too many events, but 12 is also too many. I think that maximum is 10, ideal should be 7-8...

Do you think R5 will incline the scales to more events preference in 2014?

19th October 2012, 09:41

13 is too many events, but 12 is also too many. I think that maximum is 10, ideal should be 7-8...

Agree. I would rather have 7-8 events with all counting towards the championship.

PLuto

19th October 2012, 17:32

There will be some new events in ERC in 2014, but I hope that some other from actual will go out. ERC needs lower number of events...

Sulland

28th October 2012, 00:22

Have any teams or drivers indicated that they are planning to compete in ERC in 13 yet?

Jarek Z

28th October 2012, 10:18

Have any teams or drivers indicated that they are planning to compete in ERC in 13 yet?

All I heard is that there is some interest from Malcolm Wilson's M-Sport (with Fiesta), Giandomenico Basso (car unknown) and Molly Taylor (with Citroen DS3 R3T from United Business), but it is still very early!

AndyRAC

28th October 2012, 10:41

Agree. I would rather have 7-8 events with all counting towards the championship.

Yes, I 'd have to agree. The best 7-8 events with a fair mix of Tarmac/ Gravel.....but I'd rather a good Tarmac event than an ordinary Gravel event - if that means more Tarmac than Gravel, then so be it. I'm disappointed that Valais wasn't included. Run it a month later, and have a Swiss end of season Monte style event. I'm still staggered by the omission of Sanremo....it defies belief.

I hope the ERC is a success, how are Eurosport going to cover/promote it? Will each event get the same level of coverage? The live IRC events were great, however, the highlights of the others were poor. This can't happen anymore.

Mirek

28th October 2012, 11:50

Sorry Andy but in Switzerland studs are not allowed in rallies so it wouldn't be another Monte Carlo...

werner

28th October 2012, 12:44

Its not only a rumor, but it seems Robert Kubica will do Jänner Rallye with Fiesta RRC. Could be great if he plans a full ERC season.

EightGear

28th October 2012, 12:46

Its not only a rumor, but it seems Robert Kubica will do Jänner Rallye with Fiesta RRC. Could be great if he plans a full ERC season.

Like like like like like like like like like!!!

AndyRAC

28th October 2012, 12:58

Sorry Andy but in Switzerland studs are not allowed in rallies so it wouldn't be another Monte Carlo...

Doh, like here in UK. Ah well, never mind.
I do like Valais, it should be in the ERC, as should Sanremo. We still haven't heard why it isn't in. I hope it's not because other paid more money than them.

werner

28th October 2012, 13:18

Doh, like here in UK. Ah well, never mind.
I do like Valais, it should be in the ERC, as should Sanremo. We still haven't heard why it isn't in. I hope it's not because other paid more money than them.

I dont think it depends on money. There should "enough" from Valais Organizer. I met him at past Jänner Rallye (OK, many months ago), and they explained me that they would be inside WRC from 2014. First thing I though they are not in ERC, that their plans are anyway WRC. I know Valais Rally, was there several times, one of my favorite races! Shame that I wasnt here since many years. Again same date as Waldviertel Rally.

evoIX

28th October 2012, 13:25

When can we expect the official calendar for ERC 2013?

stefanvv

28th October 2012, 13:59

I dont think it depends on money. There should "enough" from Valais Organizer. I met him at past Jänner Rallye (OK, many months ago), and they explained me that they would be inside WRC from 2014. First thing I though they are not in ERC, that their plans are anyway WRC. I know Valais Rally, was there several times, one of my favorite races! Shame that I wasnt here since many years. Again same date as Waldviertel Rally.

I think he was meaning Sanremo vs Sanmarino. Sanremo orginizers have budget difficulties.

pucky54

28th October 2012, 16:03

When can we expect the official calendar for ERC 2013?

Wed is FIA council meeting, so we will see

had_zachau

29th October 2012, 09:38

Antonin Tlustak in SMN TV confirmed that he wants to attend of all rounds ERC 2013 with fabia s2000

PLuto

29th October 2012, 14:26

Antonin Tlustak in SMN TV confirmed that he wants to attend of all rounds ERC 2013 with fabia s2000

It is still too early, final calendar will be important to make a decision...

kober

1st November 2012, 02:25

Any news about the calendar?

Mirek

5th November 2012, 06:29

Large exclusive interview with Francois Ribeiro from Eurosport about the ERC future. Original is in Czech but I think the google translate makes sense in most of the article.

PYeklada Google (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosport.cz%2Fclanek.php%3Fcl% 3D14552)

Mirek

5th November 2012, 06:55

Maybe just main points...

ERC will have 13 events, two halves, 4 events count of each half, basically same system like so far in ERC
Calendar to be shown in one week, it will contain snow, gravel and asphalt in fine mix
Till 1st September 2013 asphalt events will be run on current tyres, after that date only on WRC-type tyres for higher safety (but any tyre manufacturer can supply them)
There will be no manufacturer competition but new team competition but without mandatory number of events or driver nominations
For drivers there will be no entry fee and no mandatory number of events, overall, production and 2WD titles will be awarded like in IRC (R4 to be part of production trophy)
IRC may be resurrected in the future but outside Europe, in the moment it's not up to date issue
FIA is going to make WRC more worldwide (limit number of European events) and therefore wants strong ERC
There will be less island events to safe costs and ease logistics
M-Sport, Prodrive, Škoda Deutschland, A-Style or Kronos are named as examples of teams interested to take part
More live coverage is planned
Eurosport was interested into taking WRC promotion but admits the Red Bull Media House offer was better

werner

5th November 2012, 08:03

In the new Calendar there are also SAN REMO (10-12 October) and VALAIS (7-9 November) included.

Georgi

5th November 2012, 08:09

Good news !

Finally the ERC will gonna be powerful championship as many years ago. It's very much needed for the European motorsport. It will be prestigious for any good driver to be European rally champion... again. I like the idea of WRC to be limited in Europe and more worldwide championship. It will limit some quality drivers but on another hand this drivers will participate in the European champ.
I hope there will be no entry fees to guarantee more and more entries in each round of ERC. This is a cost that could be taken from the organizer and the sponsors of the event. It's interesting to see the future of ERC!

It is known when some official statement from FIA will be published...list of events...regulations?

Georgi

5th November 2012, 08:10

In the new Calendar there are also SAN REMO (10-12 October) and VALAIS (7-9 November) included.

Where do you see this info Werner ?

Mirek

5th November 2012, 08:13

werner

5th November 2012, 08:14

EM-Kalender mit Fragezeichen*:: rallye-magazin.de (http://www.rallye-magazin.de/rallyes/int/nachrichten/news-detail/d/2012/11/05/em-kalender-mit-fragezeichen/index.html)

Seems Cyprus is out, but thats no surprise for me if an Organizer is not able to publish Regulations and/or website 1 month before ...

Mirek

5th November 2012, 08:23

One more point from the interview with Mr. Ribeiro. Jänner Rallye shall be run on RMC style wide 18 inch tyres. No narrow snow tyres will be allowed for 4WD cars.

Georgi

5th November 2012, 08:43

No entry fee was meant for championship not for particular events. There are very few organization which can run an event without money from entrants...

I agree with you Mirek.

On another hand every rally organizer should be able to arrange cheap accommodation for the entrants (special prices at the hotels around) and some free fuel for the service vehicles to reduce the costs.

makinen_fan

5th November 2012, 08:52

2013 ERC calendar is out
iRally | The free independent Rally App for the iPhone, iPad and Android (http://irallylive.com/ir_news.htm?00002352)

Jännerrallye Austria (Asphalt/Snow) 3-5 Jan
Rally Liepāja-Ventspils Latvia (Gravel/Snow) 1-3 Feb
Circuit of Ireland Rally UK (Asphalt) 28-30 Mar
SATA Rallye Açores Portugal (Gravel) 25-27 Apr
Giru di Corsica-Tour de Corse France (Asphalt) 16-18 May
Croatia Rally* (Asphalt) 6-8 June
GEKO Ypres Rally Belgium (Asphalt) 27-29 June
Event TBA** (Gravel) 11-13 July
Event TBA** (Gravel) 25-27 July
Barum Czech Rally Zlín (Asphalt) 30 Aug-1 Sep
Rally Poland (Gravel) 27-29 Sep
Rallye Sanremo Italy *** (Asphalt) 10-12 Oct
Rallye International du Valais Switzerland (Asphalt) 7-9 Nov

Georgi

5th November 2012, 09:04

I only don't get this line: ** Depending on negotiations between Bulgaria, Romania, San Marino and Turkey.

Can someone clear this line ?

werner

5th November 2012, 09:09

I only don't get this line: ** Depending on negotiations between Bulgaria, Romania, San Marino and Turkey.

Can someone clear this line ?

They explained, that there was no time to speak with each Organizer, so no decision about that four races. Anyway, only two of them will place in ERC.

Georgi

5th November 2012, 09:17

They explained, that there was no time to speak with each Organizer, so no decision about that four races. Anyway, only two of them will place in ERC.

Thanks Werner.

To me it's strange that Bulgaria is involved because our rallies are only on tarmac and the three other events (Romania, San Marino and Turkey) are gravel ones.

The two dates that are left without decision are for gravel events as well.

Georgi

5th November 2012, 09:31

Inevitably, some of the rallies on the 2012 ERC and IRC calendar have failed to make it into the draft selection for ERC 2013.

There are 2 slots left unfilled with 4 possible countries - Bulgaria, Romania, San Marino and Turkey - and 2 reserve events, Canaries and Cyprus.

The events that definitely aren’t on the list, the possibles or the reserve include - from 2012 ERC - Rallye 1000 Miglia, Rali Vinho Madeira, Rally Principe de Asturias, and - from 2012 IRC – Targa Florio and Yalta.

11 different countries are in the calendar, with 2 rounds yet to be announced. There is no round in Spain or Germany

from: irallylive website

rallyfiend

5th November 2012, 09:56

I only don't get this line: ** Depending on negotiations between Bulgaria, Romania, San Marino and Turkey.

Can someone clear this line ?

This means "whoever pays the most".

werner

5th November 2012, 10:04

So it seems Kubica will do ERC 2013 with Fiesta RRC.

AndyRAC

5th November 2012, 10:57

Ah, I see, they've been listening to me. Sanremo and Valais both in. Good news.... ;)

PLuto

5th November 2012, 11:54

Ah, I see, they've been listening to me. Sanremo and Valais both in. Good news.... ;)

Sanremo and Valais never been out. Draft calendar, which was published few weeks ago, was only non-official working calendar, one of the first versions...

Jarek Z

5th November 2012, 12:01

So it seems Kubica will do ERC 2013 with Fiesta RRC.

Who says so?

PLuto

5th November 2012, 12:08

It is known when some official statement from FIA will be published...list of events...regulations?

Last week was FIA Rally commission, where was approved calendar and was big discussion about regulations. When it will be ready they will send it to confirmation to WMSC. After that we will see the regulations :)

Mirek

5th November 2012, 12:18

One more point from the interview with Mr. Ribeiro. Jänner Rallye shall be run on RMC style wide 18 inch tyres. No narrow snow tyres will be allowed for 4WD cars.

Sorry, I misunderstood. He meant only Monte Carlo short spikes, not Monte Carlo tyres...

werner

5th November 2012, 12:30

Who says so?

I know that from a friend of him (an italian), today it was wrote at rallye-magazin.de*::*do it sideways! (http://www.rallye-magazin.de). First he is doing C4 WRC in Italy and end of season Rallye du Var. Probably I go to Var (with that italian), first time after 15 years ...

werner

5th November 2012, 13:08

Last week was FIA Rally commission, where was approved calendar and was big discussion about regulations. When it will be ready they will send it to confirmation to WMSC. After that we will see the regulations :)

PLuto, do you know something about the European Regional Rally Cups? I know they are not very popular, but I prefer FIA continue with them ...

Mirek

5th November 2012, 13:10

Why? I find them completely useless...

werner

5th November 2012, 13:14

Yesss ... :-)

Anyway I think Valousek came to Waldviertel Rallye due to that European Cup? He had the chance there to be Overall Champion, also Orsak made entry but told Monday before the race not to come. For us its a pleasure if some Czech drivers enter in Austrian Rally, and if there are some Top drivers ... I speak only about Central cup, South and East are indeed useless with 4 races.

PLuto

5th November 2012, 13:24

PLuto, do you know something about the European Regional Rally Cups? I know they are not very popular, but I prefer FIA continue with them ...

Yes, I know a lot about it. But we must wait till it will be approved. European Cup will survive, but with a little different system oldschool system...

Jarek Z

5th November 2012, 13:54

PLuto, do you know something about the European Regional Rally Cups? I know they are not very popular, but I prefer FIA continue with them ...

You must be the only man on planet Earth who likes those useless cups :)

Thanks for the info about Kubica. Robert is a very private person and even we in Poland very often have no idea what he is planning :)

werner

5th November 2012, 14:09

[quote="Jarek Z"]You must be the only man on planet Earth who likes those useless cups :)
QUOTE]

Jarek, you know me, I am very strange and made many many statistics of ERC in 80ies and 90ies :-) Without Internet, all with contacts to Organizer. I met a lot of people at that time. And ofcourse visits at 20 ERC races each year in that period ... you remember there were 50+ events with different coeff ... so I still like the ERC also with his cups. I agree the useless, but if Waldviertel Rallye with Coef 5 this year gets some entries with S2000 from foreign countries, its welcome! At least Valousek lost the Championship as he finished second overall, with a win he could overtake Kopecky in Central cup.

5th November 2012, 14:16

Luis Pacheco

5th November 2012, 14:19

The most ridiculous of these cups is when a driver wins without knowing. It happened once with Rui Madeira in 2002. He only became aware after a while.

Mirek

5th November 2012, 14:25

It happened more often. I guess also with Kris Meeke two years back or this time with Jan Kopecký. I doubt he was ever thinking about it. It's just a result of coincidences and too many cup rounds being part of Czech championship.

werner

5th November 2012, 14:26

The most ridiculous of these cups is when a driver wins without knowing. It happened once with Rui Madeira in 2002. He only became aware after a while.

Thats right! I remember when 9 years ago a Driver got an invitation to FIA Prize giving, he didnt know why ... :-)

mousti

5th November 2012, 15:09

I know that from a friend of him (an italian), today it was wrote at rallye-magazin.de*::*do it sideways! (http://www.rallye-magazin.de). First he is doing C4 WRC in Italy and end of season Rallye du Var. Probably I go to Var (with that italian), first time after 15 years ...
C4 from Ré or the rumored Greiffenberg C4 WRC..?

AndyRAC

5th November 2012, 15:53

Quote from the calendar press release:

"In parallel, Eurosport Events is working hard developing a new ERC brand identity and website. We expect the level of TV exposure to be even higher than the outstanding coverage delivered for the IRC. We will keep pushing our pioneering live broadcasts."

Good news, and the calendar sounds pretty decent too now with the inclusion of Sanremo and Valais.

Little bit disappointed about no manufacturers championship though.

I think the TV is really important - and they have to get it right. Realistically, all events in the ERC need the same coverage, having some live, some highlights only is no good - it gives the impression that not all events are equal. Which would be my slight criticism of the IRC.

Luis Pacheco

5th November 2012, 16:14

I think the TV is really important - and they have to get it right. Realistically, all events in the ERC need the same coverage, having some live, some highlights only is no good - it gives the impression that not all events are equal. Which would be my slight criticism of the IRC.

About Azores they are talking about 4 live stages.

werner

5th November 2012, 16:17

C4 from Ré or the rumored Greiffenberg C4 WRC..?

Sorry, dont know, I should ask. But rumors says Greiffenberg.

Edit: C4 should come from Tamauto Italy, same as Sossella.

5th November 2012, 16:26

Jack4688`

5th November 2012, 18:20

Jännerrallye Austria (Asphalt/Snow) 3-5 Jan
Rally Liepāja-Ventspils Latvia (Gravel/Snow) 1-3 Feb
Circuit of Ireland Rally UK (Asphalt) 28-30 Mar
SATA Rallye Açores Portugal (Gravel) 25-27 Apr
Giru di Corsica-Tour de Corse France (Asphalt) 16-18 May
Croatia Rally* (Asphalt) 6-8 June
GEKO Ypres Rally Belgium (Asphalt) 27-29 June
Event TBA** (Gravel) 11-13 July
Event TBA** (Gravel) 25-27 July
Barum Czech Rally Zlín (Asphalt) 30 Aug-1 Sep
Rally Poland (Gravel) 27-29 Sep
Rallye Sanremo Italy *** (Asphalt) 10-12 Oct
Rallye International du Valais Switzerland (Asphalt) 7-9 Nov

That's good news, I would like to see Cyprus and San Marino (however likely or otherwise that is) in plus I think there is a better spread between the tarmac and gravel rallies compared to that rumoured calendar a few weeks ago. Surprised that Circuit of Ireland has moved into March though - is that when Easter weekend is next year?

Georgi

6th November 2012, 08:23

Some news from Bulgaria....
Yesterday there was a short interview/article in a newspaper with the ex-federation president Yanakiev who said that rally Bulgaria has all the chances to get into the list as well.

I'll try to translate the main lines from the article:

Rally Bulgaria has the chance to be included in the new Euro Championship if the debts would be cleared. *Debts of Rally Sliven to Eurosport.[/*:m:37zu6cr7]
Our rallies were dropped after Eurosport took over the promoter rights for 2013. The reason is in the debt of 110 000 euro that are not yet paid for rally Sliven. This amount was deducted by half from Eurosport. I spoke with Mr.Ribeiro and he is ready to come in Bulgaria for serious meeting with the Bulgarian Federation.[/*:m:37zu6cr7]
Yanakiev also said that he is not happy at all to lose the presence of Bulgaria in the European championship only because "one unnecessary and redundant contract was made" for rally Sliven.[/*:m:37zu6cr7]
Right now there is a free date on 26/27 of July. Also some rounds are under question.[/*:m:37zu6cr7]
There is requirement from Eurosport that Rally Bulgaria should have 30% gravel stages. Yanakiev said that he is convinced that this demand can be fulfilled.[/*:m:37zu6cr7]
Yanakiev also said that Eurosport sent a letter for the open case about rally Sliven. Eurosport warned that they are ready to sue them (probably the organizer of rally Sliven) for the whole amount of 330 000 euro at court of London.[/*:m:37zu6cr7]

That's the main story from this article.

Leon

6th November 2012, 09:35

What I get is that new eurosport ERC will again be about money....... and I´m not surprised...

Mirek

6th November 2012, 09:59

What I get is that new eurosport ERC will again be about money....... and I´m not surprised...

I find Your comment strange.

Rally Sliven signed some agreement with Eurosport events. Based on that agreement they agreed to pay some fee to be part of IRC instead of plenty other candidates. Rally Sliven obviously didn't pay the fee or big part and therefore broke the agreement. It's natural Eurosport events wants the agreement to be fulfilled and considers to take a legal action. From the information above it looks clear that the cause of problem is on side of Rally Sliven.

Leon

6th November 2012, 10:29

I find Your comment strange.

Rally Sliven signed some agreement with Eurosport events. Based on that agreement they agreed to pay some fee to be part of IRC instead of plenty other candidates. Rally Sliven obviously didn't pay the fee or big part and therefore broke the agreement. It's natural Eurosport events wants the agreement to be fulfilled and considers to take a legal action. From the information above it looks clear that the cause of problem is on side of Rally Sliven.

My comment is about 2013 and the attitude of eurosport.

It is one think to claim the money from the Rally Sliven 2012 organiser, which I fully agree since they did not fulfilled their contract obligations towards Eurosport.

But when they say that the events in Bulgaria were dropped from the 2013 calendar after eurosport took the promoter role gives me the impression that in 2013, eurosport will choose the events based on who has money to pay…

And once again I’m not surprised seeing that happening during our times with recession and all thinks associated with it

Hope I made myself more clear.

stefanvv

6th November 2012, 10:44

I find Eurosport eliminating Bulgaria at all as a host country for an event because of unpaid fee of Rally Sliven organizers little strange. Rally Bulgaria and Rally Sliven are different events and has no relations to each other in terms of organization. Obviously Eurosport insists "someone" to pay, no matter who.

Gravel stages in Rally Bulgaria, I want to see that. It would be good for the Rally :D

Mirek

6th November 2012, 10:55

Show me please a top motorsport championship where the event organizers are part of the championship for free. That's quite impossible these days. For example Moto GP of Czech republic pays some 3 million Euro to Dorna to be in the calendar and the F1 races pay even more ridiculous prices (30 million Euro or so if I am not mistaken). The prices asked in rallying are just a fraction of those in F1 or even Moto GP. WRC events pay too, remember how they were angry to pay 100000 Euro more according to FIA proposal for 2013?

Than it is natural that the championship promoter/organizer is choosing solid partners. Will You sell Your products to someone about whom You know that he didn't pay to other producers or even to You in the past? I wouldn't. That's a question of trust.

stefanvv

6th November 2012, 11:19

I'm not saying Eurosport don't have to be paid, they have to of course, but it is entirely organizers of Rally Sliven's fault not paying in time. Other events in Bulgaria shouldn't suffer of this. On the other hand Eurosport didn't broadcasted anything on TV except 1-2 minutes in Motorsport weekend about IRC Sliven Rally in return.

Mirek

6th November 2012, 11:30

Sorry, that was not meant to be a reply to You but to Leon. You were just faster than me :)

Eliminating Bulgarian events completely sure look strange but we don't know the role of national ASN in the case of Sliven. That may be the point.

stefanvv

6th November 2012, 11:47

Eliminating Bulgarian events completely sure look strange but we don't know the role of national ASN in the case of Sliven. That may be the point.

As far as I know ASN took it's financial engagement to the event, but this was symbolic amount. There might be some administrative hinderances which I don't know of, but I'm sure Mr. Yanakiev is more familiar with these :D

sindroms

6th November 2012, 13:16

Rally "Liepāja - Ventspils 2013" Rally Guide has released - Rally Guide | Rally Liep (http://www.lvrally.com/rallija-gids/?lang=en)

OgyWRC

6th November 2012, 13:23

It was clear, that Sliven behaviour will affect the credibility of all Bulgarian rallies and that's the case.

Eurosport prefers to collect some money in time instead of wasting time in court, thus they play their cards well offering that opportunity to Bulgarian federation ... moreover, FIA should be happy, having in mind friendships of Geogre Yanakiev.

br21

6th November 2012, 21:32

Rally "Liepāja - Ventspils 2013" Rally Guide has released - Rally Guide | Rally Liep (http://www.lvrally.com/rallija-gids/?lang=en)

Looks very expensive event, big entry fee, 3 different service zones, a lot of liasons... not good as I was really looking forward to this event. Anybody know what studs will be allowed? I hope proper long ones.

stefanvv

6th November 2012, 21:39

Mirek

7th November 2012, 08:38

Yes, long studs. Confirmed also in interview with Mr. Ribeiro from Eurosport.

bluuford

7th November 2012, 11:44

Looks very expensive event, big entry fee, 3 different service zones, a lot of liasons... not good as I was really looking forward to this event. Anybody know what studs will be allowed? I hope proper long ones.
I think that 1000 EUR for private and 1600 EUR for legal "early" entrant for nearly 300km of SS in European Rally Championship round is not that expensive? Considering the fact that you can get some coverage in Eurosport.
Entry fee for Rally Estonia was 600 EUR and it was around 160 km :-)
They are talking about one more possible stage. I hope it will be on ice (One the lake or smth) :-)
But for the spectators it will be difficult indeed. Four stages in the dark, pretty long liasons in witery roads etc.

sindroms

7th November 2012, 13:48

But for the spectators it will be difficult indeed. Four stages in the dark, pretty long liasons in witery roads etc.

It all depends on your rally watching habits/style and in this case where you stay at also. The most suitable format for me seems - 1 full stage on Friday, 2 full stages - on Saturday and Sunday (in both days stages will be run twice). No rush, no need to trying to find stages in the dark time and walk a few km. Drive in before stages are closed, find the spots, enjoy. And vice-versa - if you are tended to see as much as possible :)

br21

7th November 2012, 15:09

Maybe with entry fee you're right, but anyway it's a lot in my opinion.
Bigger problem is the fact that rally caravan have to move a lot, first Liepaja, then Venstspils, so you have to change accomodation place, 3 different service zones (incl. one remote), long liason sections.
Also for spectators it's little bit difficult with a lot of driving or changing sleeping place, which makes things more expensive.
And I'm really not complaining just to complain, I was (and still am) looking forward to this event, just I think whole logistics and expences because of that are really big...
If I'm correct there will be round of LRC run together with ERC round, in fact even two rounds, I can't find any details about it, anything already in the internet?

bluuford

7th November 2012, 18:01

It all depends on your rally watching habits/style and in this case where you stay at also. The most suitable format for me seems - 1 full stage on Friday, 2 full stages - on Saturday and Sunday (in both days stages will be run twice). No rush, no need to trying to find stages in the dark time and walk a few km. Drive in before stages are closed, find the spots, enjoy. And vice-versa - if you are tended to see as much as possible :)

Yeah, I am not the one who is running from Ss1 to ss2 and then to SS3. Usually I take first stage, then service and then from service to second or third stage of the afternoon. In most rallies.

Do you have any information about the road conditions between Liepaja and Venstpils. It was not nice in last spring. Have they improved it? Sorry for extending this topic. Is the Liepaja rally topic already open?

sindroms

8th November 2012, 07:44

Also for spectators it's little bit difficult with a lot of driving or changing sleeping place, which makes things more expensive.
As far as organizers have released info about stages... As a spectator I would prefer get accommodation in Kuldiga. Longest liason could be on Friday - about 80km (one way). Saturday and Sunday - no more than 30km (one way) each day ;)

If I'm correct there will be round of LRC run together with ERC round, in fact even two rounds, I can't find any details about it, anything already in the internet?
Yes so it is. Friday and Saturday - 1st round, Sunday - 2nd round. No further info yet.

Do you have any information about the road conditions between Liepaja and Venstpils. It was not nice in last spring. Have they improved it? Sorry for extending this topic. Is the Liepaja rally topic already open?
I'm afraid there's no major changes. But seems to me it wont be the main route for spectators... All following info - in separate topic :)

liposh

8th November 2012, 11:52

sindroms

8th November 2012, 13:12

...sindroms: I have got one more question for you. What is the snow-cover conditions in beginning of February near Kuldiga? You know, I am little bit worried about event quite nearby the sea and I only pray for more "winter rally" than for example Swedish rally 2008..that was disaster: http://www.ewrc.cz/images/2008/wrc/sw/mf_a_140_sousa_1.jpg

That's main question for everyone, anything could happen. Closeness of sea make weather very changeable.
For example on February 1.-3. in 2012 temperature in that region droped down to minus 20 degrees and snow cover was excellent. But that's exception. In general average temperature is about minus 5-8 degrees and snow cover is ok. Organizers has made researches about previous ten years weathers conditions and has find first weekend on February as a more safest date.
But we have to ask bluuford - he could provide more usefull info about what we can expect ;)

Georgi

9th November 2012, 10:36

If this rally is similar to Rally Sweden it will be great adding to the European championship!

The European rally series needs one 100% snow event.

mousti

10th November 2012, 00:15

GekoYpresRally Facebook: M-Sport, Prodrive, Škoda Deutschland, A-Style or Kronos are named as examples of teams interested to take part in the new ERC

PLuto

10th November 2012, 00:35

GekoYpresRally Facebook: M-Sport, Prodrive, Škoda Deutschland, A-Style or Kronos are named as examples of teams interested to take part in the new ERC

I think it is taken from interview with Francois Ribeiro (Autosport (http://www.autosport.cz/clanek.php?cl=14552))

mousti

10th November 2012, 15:15

They take it from the good websites :p

Sulland

10th November 2012, 16:41

Very interesting interview, the one with Chief Eurosport Events, promotor of ERC:
Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autosport.cz%2Fclanek.php%3Fcl% 3D14552)

Future looks bright!

PS
You have so much good stuff on Autosport CZ, PLuto. Could you not implement google translate directly in the website. Your hitrate would explode !! :)

Fast Eddie WRC

12th November 2012, 12:03

New twitter account as ERC: https://twitter.com/FIAERC

PLuto

12th November 2012, 12:52

And it looks like there is also new logo of ERC (possible to see as a small picture here: www.AutoSport.CZ (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=761&p=65168#p65168))

Hartusvuori

12th November 2012, 13:26

And it looks like there is also new logo of ERC (possible to see as a small picture here: www.AutoSport.CZ (http://forum.autosport.cz/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=761&p=65168#p65168))

I don't want to sound negative, but that just is one horrible logo. It could be good for a science summit or bicycle fair, but for ERC - let's hope not.

makinen_fan

12th November 2012, 13:27

Also the IRC account in twitter is now renamed @FIAERC and has the same logo as PLuto mentioned.

dimviii

12th November 2012, 13:32

I don't want to sound negative, but that just is one horrible logo. It could be good for a science summit or bicycle fair, but for ERC - let's hope not.

unfortunately i have to agree.

Jarek Z

12th November 2012, 16:02

I don't want to sound negative, but that just is one horrible logo. It could be good for a science summit or bicycle fair, but for ERC - let's hope not.

I agree with you. That must be the ugliest logo that I have ever seen!

Just look at the comparison between the old and the new:

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/174891_179490908749449_248419651_n.jpg

http://a0.twimg.com/profile_images/2839872630/a76388fd84d1cf5027e989fe29d12ae8.jpeg

Has anything changed for better?